Config
Log for #openttd on 5th October 2013:
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02:51:33  <kristal> I've done something so awful I will never release it... 3D TTD... it's like dropping a nuke and vaporizing of the nostalgia factor and charm of the game.
02:52:27  <Supercheese> change the sprite-drawing method to support steroscopic layers?
02:52:30  <Supercheese> changed*
02:53:15  <kristal> No, voxel conversions.
02:53:28  <kristal> Little vans made of cubes.
02:53:42  <Supercheese> ah
02:53:50  <kristal> It all falls apart when things go diagonally...
02:53:55  <kristal> oh god
02:54:43  <kristal> I wonder, is a VPS with 128MB of RAM (30MB used by OS) enough for a medium server?
02:54:56  <Supercheese> no idea
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04:17:18  <lovergirl> http://Fun4Days.com/sms/sms.php?share=178616
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04:21:43  <kristal> totally not a fishing link
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06:24:56  <planetmaker> moin
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06:47:17  <Pikka> boin blanetbaker
06:50:04  <V453000> helo :)
06:54:29  <planetmaker> oh, a Pikka, salut :-) And salut V as well :-)
06:59:42  <V453000> moo moo
07:00:50  <planetmaker> heritage vehicle set: horse-towed mail carriage. cow-towed cargo wagons. horses as express passenger transport :D
07:00:57  <planetmaker> and dragons as express flight :D
07:01:13  <planetmaker> hell of many animations necessary there
07:02:20  <V453000> nothing is impossible to happen :)
07:03:34  <Pikka> flying cows and
07:03:59  <Pikka> wombatbuses
07:04:41  <kristal> Is there a zepplin plugin?
07:04:42  <planetmaker> +1 Pikka :D
07:06:41  <V453000> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/dux.png :>
07:06:44  <V453000> its alive
07:06:49  <V453000> hm the link isnt yet :D
07:06:56  <V453000> now iz
07:08:19  <planetmaker> omg!
07:08:40  <peter1139> Canals with signals :S
07:08:48  <planetmaker> all those poor ducklings
07:08:53  <planetmaker> slave-labour!
07:09:41  <V453000> :)
07:13:46  <V453000> peter1139: you dont have to build signals :P
07:13:54  <V453000> with Slight disadvantages, but still :D
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08:11:17  <Terkhen> hello
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09:35:32  <Alberth> moin LordAro
09:35:46  <LordAro> /o Alberth :)
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09:50:35  <wakou2> good morning ottders.
09:51:41  <wakou2> Could someone please help me with my memory, On here people were discussing bridges, and someone linked to a German website for bridge enthusiasts...
09:51:52  <wakou2> Ring any bells?
09:52:01  <Alberth> @log
09:52:15  <Alberth> hmm, wrong magic word :p
09:53:39  <Alberth>  http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd/last?count=50    anyway, this log may be helpful
09:53:51  <Alberth> otherwise, I have no idea
09:54:29  <wakou2> TY Albert :) It was a long time ago......
09:54:41  <wakou2> Are you German Alberth?
09:54:59  <Alberth> http://www.tt-ms.de/forum/   ?
09:55:18  <Alberth> wakou2: no, and neither am I ottder  :)
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09:56:23  <wakou2> Alberth: No, it was a site about bridges IRL, pictures and information about european bridges, staistics, architects dates etc
09:57:04  <Alberth> oh, a usual off-topic topic thus :)
09:57:24  <Alberth> I don't remember it, so I wasn't there, I think
09:57:38  <LordAro> @logs
09:57:38  <DorpsGek> LordAro: http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd
09:57:43  <LordAro> ^Alberth ;)
09:58:00  <Alberth> LordAro has all the magic words :)
09:58:18  * LordAro tested with a pm to DorpsGek first ;)
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09:59:19  <Alberth> you're too much awake at this time :)
10:00:40  <LordAro> it is odd indeed :p
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10:20:01  <wakou2> I think I found it... http://www.brueckenweb.de/2content/datenbank/listen/laenderindex.php#.Uk_jp_ER34k
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10:21:05  <wakou2> Would there be a word in De. for a person who likes bridges? In Eng. I guessed at pontophile, but that apparently means favouring the deep ocean.
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11:31:22  <Alberth> o/
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11:44:32  <frosch123> moin
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15:01:59  <LordAro> this is awesome: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPRA0W1kECg
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15:19:49  <frosch123> LordAro: make a 10 hour video of bogo sort
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15:20:25  <LordAro> it'd be interesting if it managed to solve a list of that size in that time ;)
15:20:43  <LordAro> bogobogo sort sounds more fun, anyway :p
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15:34:59  <oskari892> Did someone work on different size and -layout towns?
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15:37:32  <supermop> hi
15:37:58  <oskari89> In addition of current ones
15:38:28  <supermop> can railtypes have custom foundations?
15:38:51  <supermop> or custom ground sprites?
15:40:27  <frosch123> you can make the gravel cover more of the ground sprite
15:40:40  <frosch123> but railtypes were specifically designed to work with different landscape sets
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15:41:00  <supermop> hmm
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15:41:39  <frosch123> https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action3/Railtypes#cargo-type <- anyway, that's the list of stuff you can replace
15:41:52  <supermop> when rails are built on a foundation, do they just reference the plain grass sprite to be their ground sprite?
15:42:09  <frosch123> railtypes do, yes
15:42:25  <frosch123> the foundations themself do not include any grass
15:42:30  <supermop> ah oh well
15:42:49  <frosch123> they are the same for houses and industries
15:43:08  <supermop> i was hoping i could have a railtype use a clear blue foundation
15:44:11  <supermop> or have some combination of groundsprite and foundation to make the rail look like it was built on a little viaduct alongside the slopr
15:44:19  <supermop> namely for monorail
15:45:14  <supermop> as the idea of building a retaining wall, backfilling with earth, then digging out a channel for the monorail to run through looks a bit silly
15:45:50  <supermop> it would be neat if you could use custom sprites to make it look like the monorail was built slightly elevated along the slope
15:46:00  <supermop> hmm 1 sec i will try to draw
15:46:56  <frosch123> i know what you mean :)
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15:52:26  <oskari89> Hmm.....
15:53:06  <oskari89> I'm thinking that if changing snowlines are possible, would it be possible to have frozen sea level and rivers too?
15:53:30  <oskari89> Though ships would look a little strange to plow trough ice
15:54:55  <frosch123> frozen rivers are possible
15:55:14  <frosch123> i think ogfx+ might actually have them
15:55:19  <frosch123> or maybe also only canals
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16:00:20  <supermop> frosch123: so this is not really possible?
16:00:22  <Flygon> It'd be nice if OpenTTD had far more climate flexibility
16:00:22  <supermop> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=48605&p=1099069#p1099069
16:00:43  <Flygon> It'd be nice if, for example, that beautiful 2048*2048 map of North America didn't have a Mexico with snow in it
16:00:54  <frosch123> supermop: only for stations :p
16:01:00  <supermop> sigh
16:01:07  <Flygon> Last I checked, Roswell wasn't exacty sub-arctic :p
16:04:08  <supermop> is there any desire for non-station items to have custom foundations in the future, or would that be a bad idea?
16:07:00  <supermop> i wonder if there is a better way to fake an alweg style monorail
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16:25:24  <oskari89> I'd say...
16:25:38  <oskari89> Roadtypes could be nice :)
16:26:06  <oskari89> Towns could have connections to each other with gravel roads
16:27:12  <oskari89> And industries could have automatical connections with gravel roads to "main roads" between towns
16:27:30  <oskari89> Limited speed of course, so one couldn't use them too easily
16:27:53  <oskari89> 70-80 km/h or so
16:28:24  <oskari89> Scenery looks quite plain without any additional roads between towns
16:28:38  <oskari89> After scenario generation
16:28:50  <oskari89> And industries look lonely too
16:29:20  <oskari89> One could convert those roads to asphalt roads with a tool :P
16:30:32  <oskari89> When implementing roadtypes, one could make also diagonal roads
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16:31:46  <Alberth> ever tried drawing them at a grid?
16:33:30  <frosch123> or as dalestan asked 6 years ago: can you imagine 4 road vehicles in parallel on one tile
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16:40:24  <oskari892> I think overlays should solve grid-issues :P
16:41:16  <oskari892> As it is the case with railtypes
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16:50:27  <Wolf01> hello
16:53:19  <Alberth> hello
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17:45:22  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25812 trunk/src/lang/brazilian_portuguese.txt (2013-10-05 17:45:16 UTC)
17:45:23  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:24  <DorpsGek> brazilian_portuguese - 4 changes by Tucalipe
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18:13:45  <oskari89> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=40844&start=920
18:14:37  <oskari89> I wonder how "far away" the moreheightlevels patch is of trunk inclusion? :)
18:15:06  <Rubidium> at least 50 trunk bug fixes?
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18:26:02  <oskari89> :P
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18:39:20  <andythenorth> so is there any reason I shouldn't code train wagons as articulated vehicles, composed of n 1/8 long parts
18:39:21  <andythenorth> ?
18:39:39  <Supercheese> Strange interaction with air drag effects
18:39:47  <Supercheese> one wagon should generate x drag
18:39:55  <Supercheese> but an articulated "single" wagon does not do that
18:40:04  <supermop> make the bogies separate from the car body
18:40:08  <Supercheese> it generates, presumably, somewhere around 2x drag
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18:40:29  <Supercheese> so you have to faff around with extra callbacks to "fix" that
18:40:48  <Supercheese> or set the drag lower in properties...?
18:40:53  <andythenorth> hmm
18:41:07  <Supercheese> lemme find the Pikka-post
18:41:35  <Supercheese> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1054201#p1054201
18:42:44  <Supercheese> so yeah, set the drag lower by 1/x, where x is number of articulated parts
18:42:48  <Supercheese> might fix things
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18:42:55  <andythenorth> hmm
18:42:59  <andythenorth> ok
18:44:01  <Supercheese> Pikka just removed the articulation entirely: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1057951#p1057951
18:44:31  <Supercheese> I dunno if he tried to fix it and it wasn't easy, or he just said "meh, lame feature anyway, not worth coding fixes"
18:45:39  <andythenorth> gah
18:46:05  <andythenorth> I'm trying to provide vehicles with lengths between 4/8 and 10/8
18:46:15  <andythenorth> and the only way to do 10/8 is articulated
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18:47:23  <michi_cc> andythenorth: Use the CETS code generator?
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18:48:50  * Supercheese wonders how CETS handles the air drag business
18:50:12  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: how are you handling 10/8 vehicles?
18:50:16  <andythenorth> or at least > 8/8?
18:50:24  * andythenorth has been baffled for days by this
18:50:34  <Supercheese> I can think of a few ways
18:50:45  <Supercheese> 1) Use invisible parts to fix the spacing
18:50:50  <Supercheese> 2) Split bogies
18:50:59  <Supercheese> 3) Split wagon itself (would look odd)
18:51:24  <andythenorth> oh I'm using invisible parts
18:51:26  <andythenorth> that bits
18:51:27  <andythenorth> easy
18:51:35  <andythenorth> the problems are:
18:51:54  <andythenorth> - I assume I have to put the sprites on the center vehicle, not the lead
18:52:11  <andythenorth> which makes the code byzantine, and prevents use of loading / loaded sprites in normal way
18:53:09  <andythenorth> - some vehicles have tenders
18:53:14  <michi_cc> The CETS script contains magic to split the graphics into three parts for straight movement (which also makes tunnels not glitch), but displays a single sprite on the center vehicle during turning (and of course with more turning stages).
18:53:35  <andythenorth> so having a 10/8 articulated engine, (two 1/8 invisible parts) followed by a visible part is hard to specify
18:53:53  <michi_cc> All vehicles have three parts, no matter which size as this is necessary for the turning angles anyway.
18:54:28  <andythenorth> what about case above - steam engine with tender?
18:55:35  <michi_cc> Two three parts vehicles.
18:55:51  <andythenorth> ok that could work
18:56:23  <andythenorth> do articulated vehicles have any performance implications?
18:56:59  <michi_cc> Everything has performance implications :p
18:57:08  <andythenorth> significant ones? :P
18:58:11  <michi_cc> No.
18:58:21  <andythenorth> ta :)
19:04:08  <Supercheese> Is CETS... nfo?!
19:04:38  <Supercheese> I can't find any processed nml output
19:06:43  <michi_cc> It's python, i.e. all NML output is generated during make
19:09:41  <Supercheese> any final nml output anywhere? am I just missing it at bundles?
19:10:21  <Supercheese> ah, there's one of an old revision
19:10:39  <Supercheese> Whew, 8.8 MB
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19:22:47  <michi_cc> In the newest CETS revisions NML was degraded to an intermediate step as compiling the set from a single NML file takes too long. Nowadays the "prefered" way to do build it is by using a patched nmlc to output NFO that is concatenated and fed to grfcodec (e.g. http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/cets/push/v4954-2/cets.nfo)
19:23:20  <Supercheese> I figured something like that may be the case
19:23:40  <Supercheese> Hmm
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20:23:49  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, basically each engine gets an nml file, which is processed by nmlc to nfo, then from the nfo the common headers are split off to get a combined nfo file, which is the again handled by grfcodec
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20:37:53  <Supercheese> Well, how does CETS hangle the air drag coefficients for articulated vehicles?
20:38:12  <Supercheese> Set invisible parts' to zero?
20:39:01  <frosch123> doesn'T only the front part define air drag?
20:39:14  <Supercheese> See the pikka post I linked above
20:39:51  <Supercheese> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1054201#p1054201 to be precise
20:42:39  <frosch123> ah, each artic part increases air drag by 0.15
20:43:29  <frosch123> how weird
20:43:42  <frosch123> what is the idea behind that?
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20:43:48  <Supercheese> Dunno
20:43:51  <frosch123> or should it be train length instead?
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20:44:01  <Eddi|zuHause> i think there was some weirdness with air drag, which was "solved" by decreasing it
20:44:13  <Eddi|zuHause> but that was oberhÃŒmers doing
20:44:19  <frosch123> this->gcache.cached_air_drag = air_drag + 3 * air_drag * number_of_parts / 20;
20:44:43  <frosch123> air_drag is from the front, it is scaled by (1 + 0.15 * num_train_parts)
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20:45:36  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, and that can't fully be scaled by dividing air drag
20:45:48  <Eddi|zuHause> so it's probably unsolvable
20:46:31  <Eddi|zuHause> i think the name of the commit was something like "reduce air drag so vehicles can reach their top speed"
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20:47:20  <frosch123> what has that to do with the formula above?
20:48:26  <frosch123> what's the idea behind airdrag being affected by number of parts?
20:48:30  <frosch123> it is about the train length
20:48:37  <frosch123> or is it about the gaps between wagons?
20:48:58  <frosch123> one could replace the num_parts with either the real length, or with number of wagons (not counting artic parts)
20:49:38  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: yes, i think the reasoning is gaps between wagons
20:50:05  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: not counting articulated parts may make sense
20:50:23  <Eddi|zuHause> was this ever specified anywhere?
20:50:40  <frosch123> not that i know of
20:54:57  <frosch123> otoh, using multiple artic parts for a single wagon is a more modern usage of artic parts
20:55:11  <frosch123> it used to be multiple wagons which are just bought together
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21:00:48  <xaver> hi, how can i change via rcon the engine_renew setting
21:01:13  <frosch123> that's a company setting
21:01:35  <frosch123> you need to join a company, then change it via the normal settings gui
21:01:43  <frosch123> the server has no such setting
21:01:58  <frosch123> resp. none that would matter
21:05:24  <Eddi|zuHause> well, can the server join companies? :)
21:06:06  <Taede> [22:05:33] <@Taede> !rcon move 1 1
21:06:06  <Taede> [22:05:34] <Lestat> ERROR: Silly boy, you cannot move the server!
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21:20:57  <oskari892> How funny
21:22:09  <oskari892> "Assertion failed at line 672 of c\bamboo-agent-home\xml-data\build-dir\ottd-nightly-w64bit\src\widget_type.h: num >= 0
21:22:11  <oskari892> "
21:22:48  <oskari892> When clicking "object" button
21:23:54  <frosch123> there is likely a fix of that already on fs
21:23:58  <frosch123> just noone comitted it
21:24:25  <frosch123> i recall sbr posting a diff
21:24:55  <LordAro> so commit it? :p
21:25:46  <frosch123> i always plan to review all the bugs "tomorrow"
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22:01:21  <Eddi|zuHause> "industries already have a window, so buying them shouldn't be hard" is a very "promising" beginner's idea of how coding works :p
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22:17:21  <frosch123> night
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23:12:26  <AndreasB> How come openttd.conf isnt saved when I do save_config
23:17:47  <FLHerne> AndreasB: openttd.cfg, surely?
23:18:02  <AndreasB> yes
23:18:07  <AndreasB> correct
23:19:07  <FLHerne> Would be better if I had any answers to the actual problem, wouldn't it? :L
23:19:12  <__ln__> "isn't" surely
23:19:24  <AndreasB> yep FLHerne
23:19:28  <AndreasB> __ln__: Go to bed
23:20:05  <FLHerne> At least my poke would be useufl if you were mistakenly looking for the wrong filename
23:20:16  <FLHerne> __ln__'s is just pointless :P
23:20:46  <FLHerne> As opposed to almost certainly but not entirely pointless
23:21:17  <AndreasB> -rw-rw-r-- 1 andreas andreas 9979 Oct  5 19:12 openttd.cfg
23:21:24  <__ln__> FLHerne: well, the language on this channel should be english. not misspelled english.
23:21:28  <AndreasB> saved config in rcon
23:21:37  <AndreasB> Oct  6 01:13 openttd.cfg
23:21:38  <AndreasB> :OP
23:21:42  <AndreasB> It did it§
23:21:48  <AndreasB> That idnt.. oh well
23:22:02  * FLHerne -> bed
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23:22:15  <AndreasB> infrastructure_maintenance = false
23:22:15  <AndreasB>  :S
23:22:17  <Wolf01> 'night all
23:22:20  <__ln__> night Wolf01
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23:22:53  <AndreasB> now it doesnt save again
23:23:11  <__ln__> "doesn't" surely?
23:23:16  <AndreasB> Sun Oct  6 01:15:45 CEST 2013
23:23:17  <AndreasB> doh
23:23:32  <AndreasB> I just set infrastructure to TRUE, and saved config
23:23:37  <AndreasB> its still false in cfg
23:23:50  <__ln__> it's
23:24:00  <AndreasB> __ln__: Go die
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23:24:17  <AndreasB> (Actually, dont do that.. would be bad)
23:24:27  <__ln__> AndreasB: please don't be impolite
23:25:47  <AndreasB> hammertime
23:26:13  <Supercheese> Just use an autohotkey script to automatically insert apostrophes
23:26:29  <Supercheese> s'what I do :)
23:27:16  <AndreasB> lol
23:27:43  <Supercheese> i.e. I type "dont" and it converts it immediately to "don't"
23:28:04  <Supercheese> Sadly, it cannot cover the its/it's situation
23:28:36  <Supercheese> but that's just bad, it's the exact opposite of every other possessive case in the language, so it seems
23:29:28  <Supercheese> but eh, whatcha gonna do
23:32:12  <__ln__> using such a script sounds slightly cheating, but who cares, it produces readable and nice output. :)
23:45:49  <Eddi|zuHause> "dont" might be a valid word in french
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