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00:31:37 *** Elukka [~Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [] 00:47:27 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~flex@i59F6A4FB.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 00:47:49 *** Pikka [~Octomom@d58-111-72-67.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:52:31 *** KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:53:21 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6A8E6.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:03:49 <Eddi|zuHause> http://drdawgsblawg.ca/2014/02/constructing-venezuela-protests-a-photo-gallery.shtml 01:13:58 *** wakou2 [~stephen@host86-143-240-99.range86-143.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 01:17:21 *** Aristide [~quassel@tok69-5-82-235-150-75.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:32:35 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~flex@i59F6A4FB.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:59:48 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye] 02:17:59 *** retro|cz [~retro@ip-89-176-82-80.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 02:27:56 *** MJP [~mjp@hq.z77.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:40:31 *** yorick [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:00:58 *** KenjiE20 [kenjie20@irc.blinkenshell.org] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 03:02:18 *** KenjiE20 [kenjie20@irc.blinkenshell.org] has joined #openttd 03:09:51 *** KillerByte [~quassel@c-67-160-166-115.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:56:41 *** user [~user@99-194-195-10.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #openttd 03:57:13 *** user is now known as Guest373 04:08:32 *** Lisbon [~Lizz@blk-89-196-21.eastlink.ca] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:09:26 *** Flygon_ [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has joined #openttd 04:09:49 *** Flygon [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:11:59 *** Japa_ [~Japa@117.201.103.127] has joined #openttd 04:12:54 *** Japa [~Japa@117.214.7.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:19:45 *** Guest373 [~user@99-194-195-10.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:22:54 *** Japa_ [~Japa@117.201.103.127] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:58:59 *** Morgan_Freeman [~user@99-194-195-10.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #openttd 05:19:46 *** Randominty [~Randomint@124-171-161-61.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #openttd 05:29:24 *** Japa [~Japa@117.201.98.152] has joined #openttd 05:56:02 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC67721.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 05:56:16 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD59A6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 06:02:59 <V453000> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/5825/EngineTable065.png (: the original choice in last version was 22 :D now more than 33 06:12:19 *** Flygon__ [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has joined #openttd 06:12:19 *** Flygon_ [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:30:55 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6A4FB.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 06:41:16 *** Morgan_Freeman [~user@99-194-195-10.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:42:03 <Supercheese> Shiny 06:43:16 <Supercheese> needs portals 06:43:37 <Supercheese> "Trains will teleport at random intervals" 06:48:06 *** Pecioo [~fgh@drg226.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 07:45:11 *** Pecioo [~fgh@drg226.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:51:43 <Xaroth|Work> V453000: love the category 'meow' and 'brainmelt' :P 07:52:14 <V453000> (: 08:22:00 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6A4FB.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:22:46 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 08:22:50 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 08:28:37 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-94-187.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:32:55 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 08:39:22 <V453000> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=69974#p1111777 GO HELP HIM :D 08:39:39 <V453000> anybody shares the opinion that this person is of severe brain illness? 08:41:22 <Xaroth|Work> somewhat, yes 08:44:26 *** DDR [~kvirc@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:44:49 *** DDR [~kvirc@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 08:46:43 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:08:00 *** tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@ip503d7ac1.speed.planet.nl] has quit [] 09:21:54 *** KouDy [~koudy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 09:22:05 *** KouDy [~koudy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 09:24:14 *** Flygon_ [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has joined #openttd 09:24:14 *** Flygon__ [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:35:27 *** tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@ip503d7ac1.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 09:38:23 *** KouDy [~koudy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:45:12 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 09:50:34 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@zeroshell2.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has joined #openttd 09:58:25 *** Virtual [~Virtual@46.7.241.30] has joined #openttd 10:09:37 *** KouDy [~koudy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 10:14:22 *** Randominty [~Randomint@124-171-161-61.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [] 10:30:40 *** Japa [~Japa@117.201.98.152] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:31:04 *** Japa [~Japa@117.201.98.152] has joined #openttd 11:03:02 *** Cybert1nus [~Cybertinu@2a00:6960:1:1::2442] has joined #openttd 11:04:27 *** Pikka [~Octomom@d58-111-72-67.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 11:13:17 *** Cybert1nus [~Cybertinu@2a00:6960:1:1::2442] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:27:56 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@200.139.121.99.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:29:40 *** Japa [~Japa@117.201.98.152] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:38:46 *** Japa [~Japa@117.201.106.111] has joined #openttd 11:40:21 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@177.16.140.190] has joined #openttd 11:46:07 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@95.76.164.39] has joined #openttd 11:49:25 *** Elukka [~Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 11:55:12 *** MJP [~mjp@hq.z77.fr] has joined #openttd 11:56:28 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6A4FB.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 12:04:20 *** yorick [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 12:06:21 *** DDR [~kvirc@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:06:44 *** DDR [~kvirc@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 12:21:15 *** MJP [~mjp@hq.z77.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:21:32 *** Andreas [~Andreas@s5375406a.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 12:22:43 *** MJP [~mjp@hq.z77.fr] has joined #openttd 12:31:24 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@98.145.80.103] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:31:56 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@98.145.80.103] has joined #openttd 12:42:40 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@177.16.140.190] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:43:36 *** TheMask96 [martijn@gluttony.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:48:05 *** Aristide [~quassel@tok69-5-82-235-150-75.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 12:49:27 *** TheMask96 [martijn@sloth.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 13:29:28 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 13:41:02 *** retro|cz [~retro@ip-89-176-82-80.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:48:54 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:58:48 *** Virtual [~Virtual@46.7.241.30] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 14:08:50 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 14:23:14 *** Aristide [~quassel@tok69-5-82-235-150-75.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:56:36 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:13:49 <Belugas> hello 15:14:25 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@187.58.247.113] has joined #openttd 15:28:15 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't get this mfans guy, he says he's afraid of bugs in beta, but then he plays a random patchpack? 15:29:46 <Xaroth|Work> lol 15:36:47 <peter1139> Because they're not called betas. 15:40:26 <planetmaker> oh, does he? That's cute :) 16:07:01 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@zeroshell2.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:14:48 *** roadt_ [~roadt@114.96.134.143] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:21:10 *** Morgan_Freeman [~user@99-194-195-10.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #openttd 16:26:49 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #openttd 16:26:51 *** gelignite [~gelignite@i528C3B54.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 16:36:55 *** Elukka [~Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:56:36 *** TheMask96 [martijn@sloth.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:01:06 *** TheMask96 [martijn@wrath.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 17:08:20 *** Midnightmyth [~quassel@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #openttd 17:32:35 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: but... it patched a release, so it must be more stable 17:38:45 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d0104fe.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 17:50:24 * frosch123 ponders a duck only toyland game with sv and toys goal 17:50:51 <planetmaker> quak quak :D 17:50:59 <planetmaker> but what are sv? 17:51:09 <frosch123> silicon valley 17:51:20 <frosch123> what is the meow class abuot? 17:51:22 <planetmaker> oh, sure :) 17:54:07 <frosch123> hmm, so my blind coded windows patches did not work :p 17:56:47 <frosch123> ah, i see it 17:57:36 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 17:57:39 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 17:58:53 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r26353 /trunk/src/thread (thread_os2.cpp thread_win32.cpp) (2014-02-18 17:58:46 UTC) 17:58:54 <DorpsGek> -Fix (r26349) [FS#5917]: Win32 and OS/2 ThreadMutex::WaitForSignal always asserted. 17:59:48 <frosch123> maybe coding stuff blindly, committing it, checking whether the farm succeeds, and then letting users test whether it even starts is not the ideal method :p 18:00:02 <frosch123> but it helps with moar cake 18:01:58 <Eddi|zuHause> you could always just throw an r26353 party :p 18:02:27 <frosch123> that's too obvious 18:03:36 <frosch123> you could add the numbers of bear bottle which V consumed in his life to it 18:03:42 <frosch123> then we can make a 50k party 18:03:44 *** Aristide [~quassel@81.253.7.187] has joined #openttd 18:04:26 <planetmaker> lol 18:06:27 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6A4FB.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:06:30 <frosch123> 2 liters of beer per day over 10 years or so 18:07:06 <Eddi|zuHause> how small are your beer bottles? 18:07:13 <planetmaker> you know them, Eddi|zuHause :) 18:07:21 <planetmaker> you drank from V's bottles, too 18:07:22 <frosch123> 0.3 to make it easier for him :p 18:07:26 <planetmaker> :P 18:07:53 *** Aristide [~quassel@81.253.7.187] has quit [] 18:08:06 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, i drank some beer bottles which i found unusually small 18:08:10 *** Aristide [~quassel@81.253.7.187] has joined #openttd 18:08:20 <frosch123> there also exist 0.2 bottles 18:08:24 <frosch123> but they are silly 18:08:30 <Eddi|zuHause> you almost exclusively get 0.5 bottles over here 18:09:59 <frosch123> 20 or 24 bottles per box? 18:10:09 <frosch123> or 30? 18:12:12 <frosch123> i think the spambots on the forums are way too old 18:13:10 <frosch123> is 34 our average age? 18:13:21 <planetmaker> I raise it :P 18:13:27 <planetmaker> but I think 34 is above average 18:14:03 <frosch123> well, i also enter the twens this year 18:14:28 <frosch123> what did the "h" at the end mean? 18:14:35 <Eddi|zuHause> i only marginally lower that 18:14:50 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think it's that far off, though 18:15:10 <Eddi|zuHause> and there are 20 bottles per case 18:15:50 <Eddi|zuHause> or sometimes 11 18:18:18 <Eddi|zuHause> "A 27-year-old woman was arrested for not returning a VHS-cassete of the film 'Monster-in-law' since 2005" 18:19:18 <frosch123> is that similar to husband-in-law ? 18:21:52 <frosch123> planetmaker: i am not sure about 1.3.3, i have a suspicion that 1.3.2 may be better :p 18:22:27 <planetmaker> :) 18:25:52 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: the german title is "Das Schwiegermonster" 18:26:17 <Eddi|zuHause> which i don't remember watching 18:26:34 <Eddi|zuHause> which is probably a good thing in either case :p 18:27:19 <Eddi|zuHause> (either it's so bad that i did not bother watching it, or it's so bad that not remembering is a defensive mechanism of my brain) 18:27:34 <Aristide> Unlimited Drink *o* 18:27:34 <Aristide> Hi o/ 18:27:40 *** Aristide [~quassel@81.253.7.187] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 18:28:05 *** Aristide [~quassel@81.253.7.187] has joined #openttd 18:29:57 *** Alberth [~hat@2001:980:272e:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd 18:29:58 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 18:29:58 <Eddi|zuHause> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8xr_j3hwEE 18:38:55 *** Virtual [~Virtual@46.7.241.30] has joined #openttd 18:39:55 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host58-55-dynamic.182-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 18:40:25 <Wolf01> evenink o/ 18:40:33 <Alberth> hi hi 18:45:15 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r26354 trunk/src/lang/unfinished/frisian.txt (2014-02-18 18:45:08 UTC) 18:45:16 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 18:45:17 <DorpsGek> frisian - 22 changes by Geoloep 19:02:47 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:02:49 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 19:04:33 *** Beul [~Andreas@s5375406a.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 19:05:04 *** Elukka [~Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 19:05:11 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #openttd 19:10:34 *** Andreas [~Andreas@s5375406a.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:10:34 *** Beul is now known as Andreas 19:15:35 <frosch123> http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amerikaner_%28Geb%C3%A4ck%29 <- Eddi|zuHause: it wouldn't have helped if he had said he was an american 19:16:56 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 19:17:44 <Aristide> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIqCwk_ZJDQ <3 19:26:29 *** Hazzard [~43aefd2c@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 19:33:06 <andythenorth> o/ 19:33:09 <andythenorth> etc 19:33:25 * Alberth waves back 19:33:51 * andythenorth played a game for a bit yesterday 19:33:58 <andythenorth> but then had to fix a newgrf for 40 mins :P 19:34:01 <andythenorth> such is life 19:34:35 <Alberth> all developers seem to have that problem :) 19:34:40 <andythenorth> do the rest of you not find FIRS a bit too intricate btw? 19:34:48 <Eddi|zuHause> as soon as you start playing the metagame, you can't enjoy the game anymore 19:34:54 <andythenorth> too many connections contending in FIRS 19:35:08 <andythenorth> spoils the fun of original TTD imo 19:35:13 <Pinkbeast> FIRS: nah, it's not like one has to move every cargo 19:35:27 <Eddi|zuHause> because you get incomfortable with the game limitations, you think about how easily they could be extended 19:35:30 * andythenorth is playing a GS challenge (Silicon Valley) 19:35:47 <andythenorth> so I have to move farm cargos to a town 19:35:51 <andythenorth> and manufacturing supplies 19:36:05 <andythenorth> to get man. supplies I need metal, which means coal, iron and scrap 19:36:14 <Pinkbeast> ... but it delays the point where there's nothing to do because everything's hooked up, without having to play on a stupidly huge map 19:36:22 <andythenorth> then I have to drop it all at a massive transfer station, and use trucks or small trains 19:36:37 <andythenorth> then I have to build another network in that mess to get farm supplies back to the farms 19:36:52 <andythenorth> and another one to get engineering supplies to the mines for coal, iron and scrap 19:36:53 <Eddi|zuHause> i thought that was the entire point of FIRS 19:36:56 <andythenorth> and this is just 'Basic' 19:37:13 <Eddi|zuHause> if you don't want that, play the default industries 19:37:53 <andythenorth> or I make another Basic, low-connectedness economy 19:38:26 <andythenorth> also I would restore the default station-rating-influences-industry-production behaviour.... 19:38:27 <Eddi|zuHause> don't do that. 19:38:31 <andythenorth> ...if I could understand my code 19:38:38 <andythenorth> not mine, yexo's :) 19:39:21 <frosch123> ah, the meow class belongs to the purr tracks 19:39:24 <frosch123> how obvious 19:39:54 <Eddi|zuHause> wtf is a purr track? 19:40:03 <andythenorth> some questions better not asked :) 19:40:24 <V453000> pfft 19:40:30 <Taede> its track where the meow engines start to purr 19:40:34 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: that was a mistake 19:40:35 <Alberth> andythenorth: I never really bothered with the supplies 19:40:38 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 19:40:45 <frosch123> you are an evil alien who captured the real eddi! 19:41:11 <frosch123> what did you do to him, give him back! 19:41:51 <Eddi|zuHause> he got replaced by someone who is actually trying to finish studying 19:43:15 <frosch123> sounds like eddi, let someone else finish it 19:50:04 <andythenorth> Alberth: how do you increase industry output? o_O 19:50:07 <andythenorth> or you don't? 19:51:03 <Alberth> indeed, I don't 19:51:19 <andythenorth> oic :) 19:51:30 <andythenorth> maybe that is much more relaxing 19:51:43 <andythenorth> I kind of wonder about an OTTD equivalent of a fishtank :) 19:51:43 <Eddi|zuHause> that is a perfectly valid use of the game mechanics :p 19:51:59 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: that's called a title game 19:52:20 <andythenorth> or browsing servers? 19:52:47 <andythenorth> I'm really reluctant to distribute these farm supplies 19:52:54 <andythenorth> the network is boring to build and run 19:53:00 <andythenorth> can someone write an AI to do it? o_O 19:53:22 <Eddi|zuHause> use cargodist 19:53:43 <Eddi|zuHause> put a supplies wagon on every farm train 19:53:51 <Eddi|zuHause> like a caboose 19:54:23 <andythenorth> cargodist doesn't understand how to do it 19:54:30 <andythenorth> I tried it in a game 19:56:33 <fonsinchen> what went wrong? 19:57:04 <andythenorth> let me see if I can load the save 19:57:17 <andythenorth> we discussed it before at length, but I never provided the save :| 19:57:57 <fonsinchen> I think it boiled down to the fact that no one likes the distribution by covered tiles thing 19:58:29 <fonsinchen> However, once you know how it works, you should be able to get a somewhat useful distribution of supplies 19:58:36 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, for supplies, you probably want equal amounts to every industry, independent of distance or "demand" 19:59:04 <frosch123> hmm, they changed something in the matrix 19:59:13 <fonsinchen> You can level out the demands by setting the influence of distance to 0 and covering the same number of tiles on every target. 19:59:37 * fonsinchen has seen a cat above 20:00:03 <andythenorth> can't find the save :( 20:00:05 <Eddi|zuHause> which brings us back to the problem that the demand calculation settings are global, and not per cargo(-category) 20:00:23 <andythenorth> the problem I had was trains sitting waiting for cargo 20:00:25 <frosch123> let's add 78 settings for all registered cargo labels 20:00:29 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i name my savegames by a random town, so i easily can distinguish different games 20:00:31 <andythenorth> with thousands of crates at the station 20:00:44 <frosch123> 3 settings per cargo ofc, so 134 20:00:57 <fonsinchen> andythenorth, that's a different problem then 20:00:58 <andythenorth> also there was somewhat conflicting advice about whether capacity influences distribution or not 20:01:21 <andythenorth> fonsinchen: yes, I wonder now if it is a bug, so trying to find save 20:01:35 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the stockpile at intermediate stations lowers the rating at the source station, or so 20:01:45 <andythenorth> it does? o_O 20:01:47 <fonsinchen> Capacity doesn't influence the demands, but it influences the routes the cargo will take to fulfill the demands 20:02:01 <fonsinchen> that too 20:02:20 <andythenorth> this was the screenie, but I have to find the bloody save http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/5626/FIRS_cdist.png 20:02:32 <andythenorth> Jingleville Tanner road was getting no cargo allocated 20:04:24 <andythenorth> found it 20:04:58 <andythenorth> problem #2 - non-bananas newgrfs :P 20:05:30 <Pinkbeast> "let's add 78 settings for all registered cargo labels" - yes please, even if hidden from J. Random User. 20:05:51 <andythenorth> fonsinchen: cdist bugs go on flyspray? 20:06:01 <fonsinchen> of course they do 20:06:01 <andythenorth> frosch123: that sounds ideal :) 20:07:50 <fonsinchen> andythenorth, maybe check if you have just covered only one tile of the industry with Jingleville Tanner road and more with the other stations. 20:08:17 <fonsinchen> And look at the "Planned" view of the station GUI. 20:08:42 <andythenorth> fonsinchen: I'm making a zip of the save and newgrfs 20:09:19 <andythenorth> how do I check if the save was made with a patched ottd? 20:09:44 <fonsinchen> You crash it and look at the crash.log 20:09:48 <andythenorth> it loads in recent trunk, so I guess it's fine 20:10:05 <fonsinchen> Yes, just upload it and I will take a look at it. 20:13:26 <andythenorth> fonsinchen: https://bugs.openttd.org/task/5918 20:13:46 <fonsinchen> If the win32 video driver behaves remotely similar to the SDL one it will want to be mutex-protected in ChangeResolution, ToggleFullscreen, and AfterBlitterChange, too. 20:13:55 <fonsinchen> thanks andythenorth 20:14:01 <andythenorth> np 20:14:13 <andythenorth> I am playing for now with cdist for mail and pax, and manual for other cargos 20:14:23 <andythenorth> which is fine, but makes reverse feeder networks painful :P 20:14:36 <andythenorth> and FIRS demands a lot of reverse feeders :( 20:15:34 *** Beul [~Andreas@s5375406a.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 20:15:38 <andythenorth> frosch123: can SV avoid showing the 'only x towns found' message on load of a savegame? 20:15:40 <andythenorth> o_O 20:16:06 <andythenorth> ah, I can use planes for distributing farm supplies 20:16:11 <andythenorth> we need new airports :P 20:16:16 <andythenorth> 3x1 dirt strip 20:16:25 <frosch123> it is said it shall be moved to the story book 20:16:45 *** Lizz [~Lizz@blk-89-196-21.eastlink.ca] has joined #openttd 20:19:09 *** Lizz is now known as Lisbon 20:19:19 *** Andreas [~Andreas@s5375406a.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:19:20 *** Beul is now known as Andreas 20:23:37 <andythenorth> hrm 20:23:59 <andythenorth> 'double' and 'quadruple' are too much as production boost 20:24:04 <fonsinchen> andythenorth, the planned amounts are 12 crates per month to jingleville, 30 to tinklebury south, and 19 to tinklebury pit 20:24:05 <andythenorth> 50% and 100% 20:24:13 <fonsinchen> The difference is not that dramatic ... 20:24:20 <andythenorth> fonsinchen: so is it just bad service causing them to pile up? 20:24:28 <fonsinchen> mostly 20:24:52 <fonsinchen> of course there is still a difference, part of that is due to the fact that the coal mine has 9 tiles and the pit much more 20:25:04 <andythenorth> how do I find out the planned amounts? 20:25:06 <fonsinchen> You're covering 18 tiles at tinklebury south 20:25:18 <fonsinchen> you switch to "Planned" mode in the station GUI 20:25:33 <fonsinchen> The "Waiting" text is a dropdown 20:26:18 <andythenorth> ah 20:26:22 <andythenorth> I see 20:26:39 <Pinkbeast> 3x1 dirt strip? I'm holding out for the 1x1 cannon. Transports pax and circus supplies 20:26:44 <andythenorth> so I am covering 100% of Jingleville Coal Mine 20:26:48 <andythenorth> but it's a smaller industry 20:26:52 <andythenorth> so less cargo is routed to it 20:26:55 <andythenorth> how interesting :) 20:27:09 *** Virtual [~Virtual@46.7.241.30] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 20:27:10 <andythenorth> I would not have thought of that :) 20:27:26 <fonsinchen> It depends on the total tile acceptance covered 20:27:59 <fonsinchen> And then the distribution is not 100% accurate. You can increase the accuracy setting at the cost of CPU time 20:28:15 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B7AA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 20:29:43 <andythenorth> so how would I distribute more to Jingleville Coal Mine? 20:32:20 <fonsinchen> The whole thing doesn't really make sense. You cover 20 tiles at Tinklebury pit but you only get 19 crates there. Let me play around with the accuracy a bit 20:32:39 <andythenorth> how does 'planned' cargo relate to industry production? 20:32:57 <andythenorth> the amounts look like they correspond well 20:33:10 <andythenorth> industry is delivering 40% of 180 crates to station 20:33:35 <andythenorth> which is 72 crates. 62 crates are planned for delivery 20:33:45 <andythenorth> kind of matches? 20:34:29 <fonsinchen> At maximum accuracy both tinkleburies get 25 crates and jingleville gets 12 20:34:39 <fonsinchen> that's actually about correct 20:35:06 <fonsinchen> Yes, it's an average of monthly cargo 20:35:27 <Andreas> if I use {BIG_FONT} in a string, how do I return to normal font size? 20:36:33 <andythenorth> I forget, did we discover any alternatives to counting tiles covered? 20:36:47 <frosch123> Andreas: you actually cannot :p 20:37:02 <frosch123> all strings use at most one size code in the very front 20:37:21 <frosch123> mixing sizes does not really exist 20:37:30 <Andreas> oh :p 20:37:49 <Andreas> well at least this time I am not stupid :p 20:38:10 <fonsinchen> Yes, I can just make that a 1 or 0 decision. If any cargo accepted, distribute to the station, otherwise not. Don't weigh it. 20:38:23 <fonsinchen> That would be a change of about 2 lines of code. 20:39:18 <frosch123> sounds like a setting per cargo class again 20:39:29 <andythenorth> sounds like it's worth trying in a patch 20:40:20 <frosch123> letting andy test a patch sounds excellent :p 20:40:43 <andythenorth> I think what I found counter-intuitive is to have 2,000 crates waiting, and they don't get reassigned 20:40:52 <andythenorth> so another train sits loading for ~long time 20:41:21 <andythenorth> I almost wonder if there should be a cargo pool at a station, and aging cargo gets reassigned 20:41:29 <andythenorth> but then that probably has unexpected consequences 20:41:32 <andythenorth> most things do 20:41:33 <frosch123> or stolen 20:41:38 <andythenorth> or stolen 20:41:45 <frosch123> cargo that waits longer than 5 days should get stolen :) 20:41:53 <andythenorth> unless you build warehouses 20:41:56 <andythenorth> then you get 10 days 20:41:56 *** NeuhNeuh [~quassel@81.253.7.187] has joined #openttd 20:42:13 <andythenorth> frosch123 I don't think that's as stupid as you think it is :) 20:42:20 <andythenorth> I assume you're trolling? 20:42:37 <Pinkbeast> Simutrans has warehouses and finite station capacity and this lets you make some really _magnificent_ logjams 20:42:38 <frosch123> no, i honestly think that if you have 2000 cargo waiting 20:42:44 <frosch123> you cannot solve that with cdist 20:42:51 <frosch123> you have to remove the cargo somehow 20:43:06 <andythenorth> it would screw with people who want to use that really popular ship grf 20:43:19 *** Aristide [~quassel@81.253.7.187] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:43:20 <andythenorth> it's still #4 on bananas 20:43:33 <frosch123> well, that is just a matter of the timespan 20:43:34 <andythenorth> 15,000t cargo 20:43:54 <andythenorth> I thought cargo slowly decayed at stations? 20:44:00 <andythenorth> or did I imagine that? 20:44:00 <frosch123> well, it's fine if there is a vehicle waiting for loading 20:44:20 <frosch123> but originally cargo vanished due to low rating 20:44:36 <andythenorth> ah 20:44:36 <frosch123> with cdist you would need a rating per destination or something 20:44:43 <andythenorth> and I fucked ratings anyway with FIRS 20:44:53 <andythenorth> although I turn that off currently in my games 20:45:22 <andythenorth> so stations.... 20:45:26 <andythenorth> - the new UI confuses me :) 20:45:40 <andythenorth> - the newgrf handling of display for waiting is borderline stupid :) 20:45:48 <andythenorth> - and waiting cargo should disappear if not collected? 20:46:29 <frosch123> i do not exactly know how cargo rating currently works at transfer stations 20:46:57 <frosch123> and how low of a rating you can get if you service only some destinations badly 20:47:17 <andythenorth> it's a puzzle eh? 20:47:21 <andythenorth> :) 20:49:09 <andythenorth> I spend too much time in games looking at overflowing transfer stations :D 20:49:18 <andythenorth> or pickups 20:49:36 <andythenorth> this might be somewhat self-inflicted due to.... 20:49:43 <andythenorth> - FIRS 'improved' station rating 20:50:05 <andythenorth> - FIRS quadruple production multiplier at primaries, and boost behaviour at secondaries 20:50:26 <andythenorth> - CHIPS gives the impression of a lot of cargo waiting :P 20:50:54 <andythenorth> - I use a lot of slow things like trams and ships :( 20:51:24 <andythenorth> it's not a problem in default game, just add more trains, more platforms, build high-capacity ro-ro stations :P 20:52:56 *** NeuhNeuh [~quassel@81.253.7.187] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 20:53:22 *** Aristide [~quassel@81.253.7.187] has joined #openttd 20:57:39 <fonsinchen> If you change demands.cpp:123 to just return from.Supply() you get 24/17/15 crates with default accuracy and 19/19/16 with maximum accuracy 20:57:56 <fonsinchen> I doubt that this would make a real difference in that game. 20:59:18 <andythenorth> nah probably not :) 20:59:51 <andythenorth> the dist. looks like it is doing the right thing 21:00:07 <andythenorth> the main confusion arises from the amounts waiting + I don't understand the station UI 21:00:24 <andythenorth> when explained, it makes sense 21:02:29 <fonsinchen> The supplies must have been piling up there for about 3 game years at that rate of production. 21:02:38 <andythenorth> yeah I think so 21:03:04 <fonsinchen> You might have considered increasing the capacity on that route before. That's what cargodist is about, you know ... 21:03:07 <frosch123> what is the cargo rating at those transfer stations? 21:03:18 <andythenorth> and at Tinklebury South cargo is piling up 21:03:25 <fonsinchen> It's not a transfer station, it's the origin 21:03:29 <frosch123> oh 21:03:40 <andythenorth> there is one transfer - 80% 21:03:42 <fonsinchen> Rating is 40% 21:03:44 <andythenorth> the source is 40% 21:03:56 <frosch123> hmm cargo vanishes only at < 25%, right? 21:04:38 <fonsinchen> I've never actually done the math on the piece of code that discards cargo 21:04:39 <frosch123> in what order is cargo loaded onto vehicles? 21:04:57 <frosch123> does it pick random packages? or does the age of packets have any influence? 21:04:58 <fonsinchen> First by next hop, then by age 21:05:13 <frosch123> hmm, actually ... cargo does not age at stations 21:05:22 <frosch123> so it all has age 0 at the origin 21:05:26 <frosch123> maybe that is the problem :p 21:11:12 <andythenorth> fonsinchen: wrt to increasing capacity, FIRS is in conflict with cdist there :( 21:11:19 <andythenorth> I think FIRS is doing it wrong tbh 21:11:34 <andythenorth> FIRS wants only small cargo amounts 21:11:44 <fonsinchen> That's fine for cargodist 21:11:57 <fonsinchen> some 10 to 30 crates is a small amount 21:12:26 <fonsinchen> just make sure you actually deliver them to where they want to go and don't leave them around for 3 years 21:14:56 <frosch123> andythenorth: your transporting staff is quite corrupt. there is not enough capacity to transport all, so they take bribes on what to transport 21:15:04 <frosch123> that decreases the efficiency overall 21:15:27 <andythenorth> it's common in FIRS games to have a lot of cargo piling up 21:15:27 <frosch123> those industries who do not get enough supplies did not bribe enough 21:15:51 <frosch123> andythenorth: add a setting for controlling the influence of amounts? 21:16:15 <frosch123> some supplies: +10%, +20%, +50% 21:16:19 <andythenorth> yes 21:16:23 <andythenorth> I think that's necessary 21:16:30 <frosch123> lots supplies: +20%, +100%, +200% 21:16:39 <andythenorth> I did 200% and 400% when we were playing 2 hour long NoCarGoal games 21:16:47 <andythenorth> and we needed cargo fast 21:17:13 <andythenorth> I really think I should restore the standard production behaviour, and then layer supply boost on top 21:17:20 <andythenorth> but I don't understand Yexo's code :) 21:18:11 <andythenorth> specifically http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/entry/src/templates/produce_primary.pnml 21:18:27 <andythenorth> I would rather that supplies adjusted the production multiplier instead 21:21:16 *** Beul [~Andreas@s5375406a.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 21:21:58 *** Supercheese is now known as Guest453 21:21:59 *** Aristide [~quassel@81.253.7.187] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:21:59 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@98.145.80.103] has joined #openttd 21:23:58 *** Flygon [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has joined #openttd 21:23:59 *** Flygon_ [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:24:34 <frosch123> andythenorth: http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/3115/ 21:24:57 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B7AA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:25:38 *** Andreas [~Andreas@s5375406a.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:25:38 *** Beul is now known as Andreas 21:25:46 <andythenorth> frosch123: thanks. What do you think about also restoring default prod multiplier behaviour? 21:25:50 <andythenorth> and having supplies adjust that 21:26:08 <frosch123> we tried in the past and considered it terrible 21:26:09 <andythenorth> it's much fiddlier to code I think 21:26:28 <frosch123> the idea of supplies was that they only affect production temporarily, not permanently 21:26:41 <andythenorth> I've also considered some random weighting 21:26:46 <andythenorth> for 'efficiency' or such 21:26:55 <andythenorth> so that some industries demand more supplies 21:26:55 *** jjavaholic__ [~jjavaholi@grahamg63.plus.com] has joined #openttd 21:27:06 *** Guest453 [~Superchee@98.145.80.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:27:08 <frosch123> sounds like details which noone notices :p 21:27:13 <andythenorth> :P 21:27:15 <andythenorth> I would notice 21:27:18 <andythenorth> but yeah 21:27:32 <andythenorth> I can't patch that tonight, but will look tomorrow 21:27:40 <andythenorth> need to add action 14 and such 21:27:56 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 21:29:24 *** Alberth [~hat@2001:980:272e:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd [] 21:30:51 *** jjavaholic_ [~jjavaholi@grahamg63.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:33:28 <frosch123> andythenorth: the way the supplies are coded is actually funny. it does not conflict with the change-production-cheat 21:33:32 <frosch123> you can use them in parallel 21:33:35 <andythenorth> yes 21:33:41 <andythenorth> that is pretty useful imho 21:33:49 <andythenorth> I use it for testing all the time :) 21:33:53 *** KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 21:33:56 <andythenorth> and it's nice not to break cheats 21:36:10 <andythenorth> dakotas delivering supplies 21:36:23 <andythenorth> planes, always planes 21:36:30 <andythenorth> looks a bit silly at farms 21:36:35 <andythenorth> maybe I should add a crop duster 21:36:51 <andythenorth> can new airports state machine support flying at 3m above fields? 21:36:53 <andythenorth> :P 21:37:32 <Kjetil> Supersonic cropduster ? 21:37:43 <Andreas> hehe that actually sounds kinda nice 21:38:37 <Andreas> Kjetil, speeds, distances and dimentions are out of proportion anyway so not much harm can be done in that respect imho 21:44:13 <andythenorth> could station tiles show 1 cargo from a list of n meeting the thresholds? 21:45:02 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.164] has joined #openttd 21:55:03 *** Aristide [~quassel@81.253.22.79] has joined #openttd 21:55:16 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@95.76.164.39] has quit [] 21:56:37 <Wolf01> 'night all 21:56:42 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 22:05:55 *** kais58_ [~kais58@cpc8-cwma7-2-0-cust113.7-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 22:06:57 *** Pikka [~Octomom@d58-111-72-67.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:07:39 *** kais58 [~kais58@cpc8-cwma7-2-0-cust113.7-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:09:50 <Eddi|zuHause> <frosch123> no, i honestly think that if you have 2000 cargo waiting <-- but how do you define the limit? i had perfectly well working stations with 11000 passengers waiting 22:10:08 <frosch123> time 22:10:20 <frosch123> i read in andy's case the cargo was 3 years old or so 22:11:15 <Eddi|zuHause> in theory(tm) the station rating should take care of not overloading the network, but nobody has managed to get this to work properly 22:11:42 <frosch123> i thought about that earlier, but i don't think it's the right thing 22:12:08 <frosch123> you make it less obvious for the player, where the problem is 22:12:25 <V453000> too much unnecessary game control :) 22:12:28 <frosch123> so, it should not prevent the overload, just cut what is way too much 22:12:34 *** Aristide [~quassel@81.253.22.79] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:12:35 <V453000> just let the players struggle, let them have too much cargo so they can never win 22:12:48 <Eddi|zuHause> it initially sounds like the right place, but then there is industry growth and closure tied to it, plus the cargo disappearing mid-way if ratings are <50%, which make it work bad... 22:13:02 *** gelignite [~gelignite@i528C3B54.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: http://bit.ly/nkczDT] 22:13:44 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: but on huge map there mey very well be valid routes that take 3 years 22:13:59 <frosch123> but not at a single station 22:14:05 <planetmaker> especially on 4096^2 22:14:18 <Eddi|zuHause> but if they get transferred close to the end? 22:14:21 <andythenorth> hmm, do we support 0/8 long vehicles? o_O 22:14:32 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: i am not talking about absolute cargo age 22:14:33 <planetmaker> nope 22:14:36 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: unfortunately not, would make a few problems easier 22:14:43 <frosch123> but more like time waiting at a station since last unload 22:14:47 <Andreas> well if cargo is in tranit for scu long times you won't make much money, not even without cargodist 22:14:55 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: indeed :P 22:15:09 <andythenorth> with 3 part vehicles, a 2/8 long vehicle is no-go :P 22:15:32 <andythenorth> that is a problem when the graphics are drawn for 2/8 22:16:03 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: that's why i don't make short vehicles with 3 parts 22:16:17 *** kais58_ is now known as kais58|AFK 22:16:26 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: also, i don't make vehicles of length 2 :p 22:16:26 <andythenorth> that makes sense 22:16:38 <andythenorth> I don't fancy recoding all of Iron Horse again though 22:16:42 <frosch123> do it like nuts 22:16:44 <andythenorth> it's getting kind of boring 22:16:47 <frosch123> make all vehicle lengths multiple of 8 22:17:33 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: well, that's why i put this stuff into a table, so it can easily be adjusted 22:17:44 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I am not as clever as you :) 22:17:53 <Eddi|zuHause> in theory(again tm) it can do more than 3 parts as well 22:17:54 <andythenorth> I can't even fathom how to write a code generator 22:18:20 <Eddi|zuHause> it's totally easy: read input, transform data, write output 22:19:01 <andythenorth> it's also easy for you to speak german :) 22:19:05 <andythenorth> not so much me 22:19:17 <andythenorth> hmm 22:19:21 <andythenorth> these are 3/8 long 22:19:26 <andythenorth> maybe I dodge this bullet :) 22:24:48 *** roboboy [~robotboy@0001164c.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 22:32:51 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:42:53 *** perk11 [~perk11@broadband-46-242-13-101.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #openttd 22:44:22 *** Tirili [~chatzilla@kel30.kel.studentenwerk-goettingen.de] has joined #openttd 22:52:09 <andythenorth> night 22:52:10 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has left #openttd [] 22:55:25 *** Aristide [~quassel@tok69-5-82-235-150-75.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 23:02:03 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d0104fe.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 23:08:24 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 23:23:04 *** Midnightmyth [~quassel@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:30:31 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:33:09 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 23:40:59 *** roboboy [~robotboy@0001164c.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:42:24 *** Morgan_Freeman [~user@99-194-195-10.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:45:42 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6A4FB.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 23:52:28 *** roadt_ [~roadt@114.96.134.143] has joined #openttd