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00:23:13 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:32:41 *** Pikkaphone [~yaaic@131.181.158.132] has joined #openttd 00:35:58 *** liq3 [~liq3@CPE-120-147-178-81.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 00:57:49 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@177.96.125.159] has joined #openttd 01:01:14 *** Pikkaphone [~yaaic@131.181.158.132] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:06:32 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has joined #openttd 01:11:54 *** liq3 [~liq3@CPE-120-147-178-81.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au] has quit [] 01:20:09 *** luaduck is now known as luaduck_zzz 01:27:11 <Supercheese> automatic industry generation cannot be enabled/disabled after game start... perhaps it should be able to be? 01:27:32 <Supercheese> maybe via console command? 01:27:45 <Supercheese> proposed console command* 02:06:09 *** Pikkaphone [~yaaic@131.181.158.132] has joined #openttd 02:14:16 *** Pikkaphone [~yaaic@131.181.158.132] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:44:51 *** KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@pool-72-94-147-76.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:44:55 *** KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@pool-72-94-147-76.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 02:54:23 *** InvokeStatic_ [~Invoke@c-24-11-157-247.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Bunchies are a right not a privilege] 02:54:29 *** InvokeStatic [~Invoke@c-24-11-157-247.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 02:55:28 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@177.96.125.159] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:58:48 *** Pikkaphone [~yaaic@131.181.158.132] has joined #openttd 03:01:34 *** liq3 [~liq3@CPE-120-147-178-81.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 03:04:16 *** Flygon__ [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:05:23 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye] 03:08:21 *** Flygon [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has joined #openttd 03:11:14 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@46-239-219-51.tal.is] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 03:21:01 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@46-239-219-51.tal.is] has joined #openttd 03:21:16 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:21:27 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 03:27:42 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@46-239-219-51.tal.is] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 03:31:01 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@46-239-219-51.tal.is] has joined #openttd 03:36:33 *** DDR [~kvirc@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 04:00:04 *** Pikkaphone [~yaaic@131.181.158.132] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:56:02 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD4D68.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 04:56:16 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC66C60.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 05:10:10 *** cpxn [~cpzn@S0106c8fb2649e588.ok.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 05:11:41 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6AFAA.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:41:14 *** Hazzard [~quassel@c-67-174-253-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:56:23 *** Pikkaphone [~yaaic@203-206-161-219.perm.iinet.net.au] has joined #openttd 05:56:49 *** Celestar [~Celestar@mnch-5d857770.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 05:59:37 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220149.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 05:59:37 *** DDR [~kvirc@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:05:42 *** SHOTbyGUN [shotbygun@213-186-253-83.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 06:06:13 *** TomyLobo [~foo@91.65.115.103] has joined #openttd 06:12:10 <Pikkaphone> yes but no but 06:12:28 <fjb> Moin 06:12:42 <Pikkaphone> moin fjb 06:13:00 <fjb> Moin Pikkaphone 06:13:38 <Pikkaphone> what haps? 06:17:13 <fjb> It's raining. 06:17:23 <Pikkaphone> how rare 06:17:48 *** Yotson [~Yotson@2001:980:6ac8:1:a8c2:ae54:2b7c:8cea] has joined #openttd 06:19:00 <fjb> How boring. 06:37:02 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 06:40:05 *** TomyLobo [~foo@91.65.115.103] has quit [Quit: Standby mode...] 06:45:48 <andythenorth> Pikkaphone: is it? 06:45:51 *** Pikkaphone [~yaaic@203-206-161-219.perm.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:52:45 <andythenorth> apparently not 06:53:21 *** Pikka [~Octomom@d58-106-19-186.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 06:53:51 <Pikka> not often, anyway 06:54:04 <V453000> asdf 06:54:11 <Pikka> him too 06:54:16 <V453000> . 06:55:33 <andythenorth> V453000 is a BAD FEATURE 06:55:41 <Pikka> and how 06:55:48 <V453000> WAT 06:55:50 <V453000> WHY 06:55:52 <V453000> WHEN 06:55:53 <andythenorth> we should remove him 06:56:05 <V453000> pf 06:56:18 <andythenorth> YETI was more popular than Iron Horse 06:56:21 <andythenorth> which was annoying to me 06:56:29 <andythenorth> but now there is a new, unpopular YETI 06:56:37 <andythenorth> http://bananas.openttd.org/en 06:57:09 * andythenorth now releases grfs according to when they fall off bananas front page 06:57:27 <Pikka> good plan 06:57:34 <andythenorth> people like Log eh? 06:57:41 <andythenorth> itâs good, itâs good, itâs wood 06:57:42 <Supercheese> Naturally 06:57:50 <Supercheese> better than bad 06:58:10 <V453000> XD 06:58:13 <andythenorth> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2C7mNr5WMjA 06:58:34 <V453000> andythenorth: how many downloads did it have? 06:58:46 <andythenorth> moar 06:58:59 <V453000> ... 06:59:20 <andythenorth> I dunno 06:59:27 <andythenorth> youâre not on the coop account, I canât look 06:59:29 <andythenorth> also 06:59:34 <V453000> . 06:59:35 <V453000> :) 06:59:38 <andythenorth> I think I call my pipelines grf Electric Fence 06:59:39 <andythenorth> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wW6rENTfaU 06:59:52 <Pikka> http://users.tt-forums.net/pikka/wiki/index.php?title=North_American_Renewal_Set cool 07:00:06 <Pikka> pikkawiki is finally completely broken :) 07:00:10 <andythenorth> Pikka: that is pretty 07:00:25 <V453000> btw andythenorth , using newGRFs on servers is a big boost to downloads probably :P 07:00:34 <Pikka> it used to only be a little bit broken, I suppose orudge must have updated it again 07:01:09 <V453000> last yeti had just 897 downloads? 07:01:33 <V453000> 0.0.5 had 6795, was there for 2 months 07:02:01 <Pikka> nars has 290k downloads, it will be interesting to see how fast/high it goes after the update :) 07:02:51 <V453000> :D 07:03:30 <V453000> quickly. :) 07:03:54 <Pikka> and also how many complaints there are about "dumbing down" the bad features :D 07:04:43 <V453000> even more :P 07:04:57 *** Jomann [~abchirk@p57A0ACC1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 07:05:23 <andythenorth> naughty pikka 07:06:09 <Supercheese> new NARS aaaaahhh 07:06:20 <Supercheese> might actually force me to play a game 07:06:33 <Supercheese> rather than sit and report typos :P 07:09:45 <Pikka> just waiting on word from the MacK. :) 07:09:57 <Supercheese> auto-refit supported? :D 07:10:03 <Pikka> of course 07:10:11 <Supercheese> Superlative 07:10:17 <Pikka> bad features out, good features in :) 07:10:24 <Supercheese> Huzzah 07:10:35 <andythenorth> Iâve got a thing somewhere 07:10:46 <andythenorth> about how people think âusabilityâ is about newbies 07:11:01 <V453000> I wouldnt ever describe autorefit as a good feature :P 07:11:02 <andythenorth> so everything is about how ânewbiesâ can learn complicated features 07:11:13 <andythenorth> instead of figuring out how to remove the features 07:11:29 * andythenorth mumbles 07:11:48 <andythenorth> V453000: autorefit is super super awesome 07:11:52 <Pikka> but moar feetures is always better, right? 07:11:59 <V453000> :) 07:12:04 <andythenorth> yes, I want an email client in my grf 07:12:04 <Pikka> it's not called autorefit any more, because it's not auto :P 07:12:37 <V453000> station / depot refit? D 07:13:01 <Pikka> "autorefit" is station refitting 07:13:05 <andythenorth> itâs called âI forgot to refit my vehicles, but I can fix it through orders refitâ 07:14:56 <Pikka> exactly 07:16:06 <V453000> xd 07:16:09 *** Flygon_ [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has joined #openttd 07:16:23 <V453000> or "use all cargoes as one" ? :P 07:17:55 <andythenorth> no 07:18:00 <andythenorth> that doesnât work 07:18:05 <andythenorth> especially with cdist 07:18:08 <andythenorth> itâs a myth 07:18:28 <andythenorth> ârefit any availableâ is completely non-functional with cdist 07:19:33 <andythenorth> also back on BAD FEATURES, why is it assumed to be about newbies? 07:19:56 <andythenorth> the people griping most about BAD FEATURES are people who have played the game intensively for years 07:20:43 <V453000> cdist is non-functional with everything :P 07:21:06 *** lugo [~oftc-webi@tmo-106-125.customers.d1-online.com] has joined #openttd 07:21:11 <andythenorth> cdist is nearly awesome 07:21:18 <lugo> hi 07:21:24 <andythenorth> I think fonso has done something very hard 07:21:34 <andythenorth> itâs still a bit weird to play with sometimes 07:21:39 *** Flygon [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:21:43 <andythenorth> but I wouldnât play without it now 07:27:28 *** Mso150 [~Mso150@217.118.64.43] has joined #openttd 07:28:05 <Supercheese> I'm still not sold 07:28:33 <Supercheese> but it does really help transfer schemes, that much is certain 07:28:43 <Supercheese> two way transfers were nigh impossible before cargodist 07:28:47 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220149.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:29:23 <V453000> andythenorth: ever played a big FIRS game with it? 07:29:44 <V453000> cdist managed to excellently demolish our game due to somehow broken distribution of FS 07:29:53 <V453000> some clusters of farms simply didnt get anything 07:31:17 <Supercheese> aaaaaaaaah no hovertext in the newest What If? 07:31:28 <Supercheese> :< 07:31:38 <andythenorth> yeah cdist has some problems still 07:31:40 <andythenorth> but eh 07:31:42 <andythenorth> also biab 07:31:43 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 07:32:02 <V453000> :DD idk if completely breaking a game is just "some problem" :D 07:35:29 *** cpxn [~cpzn@S0106c8fb2649e588.ok.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:50:54 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 07:50:57 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 07:52:38 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@95.76.27.245] has joined #openttd 07:57:01 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-35-7.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:57:14 *** Yotson [~Yotson@2001:980:6ac8:1:a8c2:ae54:2b7c:8cea] has quit [Quit: .] 07:57:53 *** Yotson [~Yotson@2001:980:6ac8:1:e5bf:3204:9825:ca65] has joined #openttd 07:58:19 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 07:59:14 <planetmaker> moin 07:59:23 <Pikka> boin 08:03:27 <Supercheese> niom 08:04:02 <Supercheese> u!ow 08:04:24 <V453000> mooin 08:10:02 <peter1138> 5/win 55 08:10:35 <Pikka> sounds plausible 08:10:46 <peter1138> :( 08:26:35 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@76.178.136.186] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:27:23 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@76.178.136.186] has joined #openttd 08:28:35 <liq3> V453000: isn't there supposed to be two strong trains at 1950 and 1960 in NUTS? 08:28:57 <V453000> sure 08:29:01 <V453000> what year are you at? 08:29:12 <V453000> it can take ~year for the train to arrive 08:29:17 <V453000> so it can be in 1962 08:29:25 <V453000> stupid openttd random :) 08:29:33 <liq3> 1970. 08:29:38 <liq3> don't have Strong 4 or 5 yet. :P 08:30:06 <V453000> very weird 08:30:13 <V453000> can you sen me the savegame? 08:30:32 <liq3> sure. it's using r26968 btw. 08:30:33 <argoneus> good morning train friends 08:34:22 <Pikka> get out you mad fool 08:34:33 <Pikka> also, good morning 08:34:42 <V453000> liq3: I can see both 4 and 5 08:34:49 <V453000> are you sure you dont havesome filsters on? :) 08:34:50 <liq3> what really? 08:35:34 <liq3> oh gosh my bad. I clicked on a rail depot. XD 08:35:42 <liq3> those windows look almost indentical. 08:35:44 <V453000> ah electricity 08:35:49 <V453000> ? 08:36:00 <liq3> yeh. 08:36:38 <V453000> hm what is this new Show hidden button 08:36:39 <V453000> interesting 08:37:03 <liq3> it's why I'm using the nightly, instead of 1.4.3 :D 08:37:14 <liq3> hide trains I'll never use. 08:37:22 <argoneus> is it a bad feature? 08:37:31 <V453000> oooh 08:37:33 <V453000> interesting 08:37:59 <V453000> did you hide the wagons? 08:38:04 <V453000> aka is it saved in savegame? 08:38:23 <V453000> cause NUTS isnt coded to tell that those wagons should be hidden :D 08:38:30 <argoneus> V453000: what are the use cases for super strong anyway? cliffs that go up two blocks at once? 08:38:41 <V453000> no 08:38:58 <V453000> very long trains with just one engine, huge capacity, and ability to go short curves - while keeping instant acceleration 08:39:02 <argoneus> I still don't understand the whole shebang about turning speed and curve size and whatnot 08:39:05 <V453000> and yeah hills are ignorable entirely 08:39:05 <liq3> yeh I hid them. :] 08:39:18 <liq3> I'm guessing those wagons are just for visuals btw? 08:39:37 <V453000> they arent, visual is same as universal 08:39:43 <liq3> oh. hrm 08:39:44 <V453000> with FIRS you can do some special refit hacks with them 08:39:48 <liq3> oh ok 08:39:51 <V453000> other than that, you can choose what to transport some cargoes in 08:40:05 <V453000> e.g. fizzy drinks have tanker/flatbed, with universal it defaults to one of them 08:40:27 <V453000> other than that, the universal is just ultimately useful 08:40:35 <V453000> no real need to have the rest in 99% cases 08:40:53 <liq3> ok 08:40:59 <argoneus> just like path signals 08:41:11 <liq3> I'm finding path signals preferable for those 2 platform terminal stations. :P 08:41:11 <V453000> not really 08:42:32 <V453000> sure, there it is kind of clear 08:45:32 <planetmaker> V453000, hiding stuff from purchase list is not saved. It's a client-side thing 08:45:45 <V453000> strange 08:45:55 <planetmaker> or so I think it is :) 08:45:58 <V453000> I opened his savegame and had it hidden 08:46:10 <planetmaker> hm, interesting :) 08:46:17 <planetmaker> I might learn something new :D 08:46:21 <V453000> the only other thing I could think of would be if it somehow detected that the wagons were added by a parameter 08:46:27 <V453000> and made them automatically hidden 08:46:28 *** theholyduck [~theholydu@172.245.30.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:49:03 *** Mso150 [~Mso150@217.118.64.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:50:36 *** lugo [~oftc-webi@000189e6.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:54:12 *** theholyduck [~theholydu@172.245.30.36] has joined #openttd 08:57:00 *** lugo [~oftc-webi@tmo-106-125.customers.d1-online.com] has joined #openttd 09:00:36 *** LadyHawk [~LadyHawk@5751e87a.skybroadband.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:04:10 *** fjb [~frank@000158aa.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:06:18 *** theholyduck [~theholydu@172.245.30.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:11:17 <liq3> V453000: NUTS medium and strong engines are almost identical. :< 09:11:50 <argoneus> I found Fast to be good enough for everything :< 09:12:04 <V453000> the difference is quite major 09:12:09 *** fjb [~frank@000158aa.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 09:12:11 <liq3> fast is much weaker on hills and accelerates slower if you use 2 medium/strong engines. 09:12:17 <liq3> V453000: it's not. 09:12:21 <liq3> not for medium/strong. 09:12:45 <V453000> strong accelerates a lot better and mainly can pull a lot more 09:12:51 <liq3> nope. 09:12:54 <V453000> 5 tile trains with 1 medium is pain, strong is just fine 09:13:07 <argoneus> I had 7 tile trains with Fast 09:13:14 <argoneus> and they didn't lose speed even on a hill 09:13:18 <argoneus> like, one tile ascension 09:13:21 <liq3> 755t 7 long train, 2 engines for both, medium is 2.3days to 80km/h, strong is 1.9d 09:13:23 <V453000> 7 tiles for one fast should be really bad 09:13:30 <argoneus> it was really good 09:13:36 <argoneus> they went the advertised speed all the way 09:13:44 <planetmaker> what acceleration mechanism do you use, argoneus ? 09:13:48 <argoneus> realistic 09:13:56 <V453000> sure but took them ages to get to top speed argoneus 09:14:05 <argoneus> not ages 09:14:09 <argoneus> and even so, considering the distance 09:14:09 <V453000> but if it was enough for you, its fine 09:14:21 <argoneus> going 180 all the way after a bit slow beginning is much better than going 140 all the time 09:14:25 <V453000> you shouldnt consider the distance but track business 09:14:38 <argoneus> track business? 09:14:47 <V453000> if track is almost empty due to bad acceleration, it isnt optimal. 09:15:00 <V453000> if the track is packed with trains due to good acceleration, it is great 09:15:08 <argoneus> the acceleration wasn't THAT bad 09:15:18 <V453000> with TL7 it is bad. 09:15:32 <argoneus> doesn't the type of cargo matter too? 09:15:34 <V453000> the general rule is: as long as you dont get jams, the faster trains the better 09:15:47 <V453000> acceleration helps to prevent jams/get more cargo throughput 09:15:51 <liq3> V453000: TL5 train, 1 engine strong/medium, 485t, 2.4/3 tiles to 80km/h. should i confirm ingame? :P 09:15:53 <V453000> it does 09:16:01 <peter1138> sorjekuijosdhguoiadsrfhgiuodhrafgiuohedraf 09:16:03 <liq3> 2.4/3 tiles respectiverly for strong/medium. 09:16:08 <peter1138> @ programmers who can't program 09:16:11 <peter1138> fucking twats 09:16:18 <argoneus> peter1138: what happened buddy? 09:16:32 <peter1138> colleague asks me if something will work 09:16:36 <SpComb> not all programmers are programmers 09:16:45 * andythenorth canât program 09:16:48 <V453000> liq3: to 80. But then they proceed to 160 where strong is quicker, AND it doesnt accelerate anymore, while medium still needs to keep going 09:16:50 <andythenorth> but I can code 09:16:51 <peter1138> which involves calling a function in his program 09:16:57 <liq3> V453000: oh, i'm comparing tier 3s. 09:16:57 <peter1138> as if i would know what it does 09:17:03 <liq3> should I compare tier 9s? 09:17:03 <SpComb> for some, it's just a means to an end, not something to obsess over for it's own inherent value :) 09:17:04 <peter1138> so i asked him what it does 09:17:09 <peter1138> and he said... "i dunno" 09:17:17 <argoneus> lol 09:17:17 <planetmaker> :D 09:17:19 <V453000> doesnt matter which tier you compare, logic should be similar everywhere 09:17:22 <argoneus> at least he talks to you 09:17:28 <argoneus> a friend once asked me to fix his homework 09:17:28 <liq3> that's why I said 80km/h. Top speed of tier 3 strong. :P 09:17:33 <V453000> right 09:17:33 <argoneus> and it had things like 09:17:37 <argoneus> int messi = 5; 09:17:41 <argoneus> int ozil; 09:17:44 <argoneus> I was like no fix it yourself 09:17:54 <liq3> so medium reaches same speed .6 tiles later, but then accelerates to 100kh/m. 09:17:59 <peter1138> SpComb, heretics! 09:18:00 <V453000> for network throughput and stability, strong is a lot better - the extra 20kmh or how much, does hurt 09:18:03 <V453000> yes 09:18:27 <peter1138> more details, the function is called "ParseQueryString" 09:18:37 <argoneus> is this java? 09:18:41 <peter1138> which is ridiculous because the framework already parses it 09:18:44 <peter1138> nah, c# 09:18:46 <argoneus> same shit 09:18:46 <peter1138> the easy one 09:18:50 <liq3> V453000: oh sorry my bad, I was reading data wrong. 09:18:50 <argoneus> oh, right 09:18:52 <argoneus> java would be 09:19:00 <liq3> it's not .6 tiles at all. :< 09:19:01 <argoneus> StringQueryParserFactory 09:19:05 <V453000> it isnt as important how quickly train gets to the destination - more important is how much cargo can your tracks move per second - which are two dišfferent things :) 09:19:08 <V453000> how much is it then? 09:19:14 <V453000> PS .6 was suspicious. :) 09:19:25 <liq3> it's 4 tiles vs 5 tiles. :P 09:19:26 <argoneus> also I had an idea 09:19:28 <liq3> so 1 tile. 09:19:34 <liq3> it's .6 days xD 09:19:35 <argoneus> imagine if you could make roller coaster tycoon tracks in TTD 09:19:44 <V453000> you could have 2 extra wagons on that 1 tile 09:19:54 <V453000> instead there will be empty space because trains cant line up together as well 09:20:07 <liq3> 5 tiles is below train gap you'll get. :< 09:20:12 <liq3> with 2 spaced signals. 09:20:19 <liq3> hrm 09:20:22 <peter1138> argoneus, in c# if you want a request parameter called x you normally do Request.Params["x"] 09:20:24 <liq3> then again maybe not. 09:20:24 <V453000> TL3 can easily have 3 tile gap 09:20:28 <peter1138> argoneus, no parsing needed 09:20:33 <V453000> the minimum gap is something around ~TL 09:20:33 <liq3> really? 09:20:38 <argoneus> peter1138: a request parameter? 09:20:43 <liq3> This stuff is so interesting. 09:20:44 <argoneus> like, a GET parameter? 09:21:01 <SpComb> peter1138: request.args['foo']? 09:21:05 <argoneus> wait 09:21:11 <V453000> liq3: still, the 1 tile is only on the same speed, hwo quickly does it reach top speed from there? 09:21:12 <argoneus> why would anyone write a website backend in C# of all things 09:21:30 <SpComb> argoneus: Java instead? 09:21:37 <argoneus> ruby/python/(php) 09:21:44 <liq3> V453000: 13 tiles to rearch 100km/h. 09:21:46 <liq3> :P 09:21:51 <V453000> :) 09:21:56 <V453000> see, clearly visible difference :P 09:21:59 <SpComb> argoneus: not enterprise enough 09:22:05 <liq3> only for the last 20km/h tho :< 09:22:07 <argoneus> ruby on rails is enterprise as fuck 09:22:07 *** theholyduck [~theholydu@172.245.30.36] has joined #openttd 09:22:11 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220149.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 09:22:13 <V453000> those extra 8 tiles of acceleration can, and do mean more gaps between trains 09:22:24 <SpComb> argoneus: besides, you listend languages, not we frameworks, which is percisely part of the problem 09:22:27 <liq3> the trains are 25% faster tho. 09:22:27 <V453000> are the gaps worth 25% extra speed? that is the question :P 09:22:33 <liq3> haha 09:22:36 <argoneus> SpComb: what is part of the problem 09:22:38 <V453000> I believe they should be around equal with TL3 09:22:41 <argoneus> C# is not meant for websites 09:22:44 <peter1138> argoneus, C# ASP.NET is pretty damn good 09:22:48 <peter1138> argoneus, sure it is 09:22:49 <argoneus> it doesn't even run on linux 09:22:56 <liq3> V453000: i'll test it ingame. make a loop or something. 09:22:57 <peter1138> tell that to my linux systems 09:22:58 <V453000> the numbers arent precise, counting the gaps between trains isnt as simple 09:23:01 <argoneus> mono a shit 09:23:03 <SpComb> argoneus: it's rails, or django, or any number of vaugely similar and completely unrelated frameworks 09:23:08 <peter1138> eh, it works 09:23:12 <argoneus> except when it doesn't 09:23:26 <argoneus> XNA, WPF and many things don't work on mono 09:23:34 <SpComb> argoneus: you can be 100% sure that you can hire a new C# ASP.NET guy off the street and get him to hack on your web app 09:23:43 <peter1138> they're not exactly related to web stuff 09:23:47 <SpComb> argoneus: not true for python or ruby 09:23:51 <argoneus> I'd rather even use php than c# 09:23:54 <peter1138> fuck that 09:23:58 <peter1138> php should fuck off and die 09:24:15 <argoneus> there's also things like backbone.js 09:24:17 <argoneus> or flask 09:24:17 <V453000> still, each of the trains has its use, strong is ultra useful with strong trains (1-3 tiles), medium rail is kind of general purpose, but should do -okay- with TL4+ 09:24:22 <argoneus> or node.js 09:24:29 <argoneus> there is a web framework for node 09:24:31 <peter1138> ah the javascript fad 09:24:40 <peter1138> remember when everyone hated js 09:24:51 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 0.92**(1/14) 09:24:52 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 0.994061871582 09:24:56 <argoneus> people still hate js 09:25:03 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 1.92**(1/14) 09:25:04 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 1.04769724536 09:25:05 <SpComb> peter1138: I browse with NoScript! 09:25:07 <argoneus> it's just that it's the only thing all browsers support 09:25:30 <peter1138> SpComb's doesn't 09:25:45 <argoneus> I'm sure it does 09:25:46 <peter1138> my text-mode browser doesn't 09:25:48 <argoneus> he's just suppressing it 09:26:04 <argoneus> why would you use a text mode browser 09:26:10 <argoneus> does it have green letters on black background too? 09:26:12 <Eddi|zuHause> i disabled javascript and plugins in my browser 09:26:34 <argoneus> I always thought Links was more a proof of concept 09:26:36 <peter1138> why? because it gets rid of most of the shit on the internet 09:26:39 <argoneus> and hoped no one actually uses that 09:27:16 <argoneus> how does it get rid of it? 09:27:25 <argoneus> the html your text mode browser gets is the same any other browser gets 09:27:30 <argoneus> it's just that it's too crap to draw it 09:27:59 <argoneus> it's more a side effect than a feature 09:28:07 <liq3> V453000: Uranium for Strong 9? :P 09:28:28 <V453000> sure :) 09:28:41 <liq3> ...what is Uranium track? XDI 09:29:11 <V453000> the () sometimes mean what powers it for rail 09:29:15 <V453000> like steam/diesel/electric 09:29:21 <V453000> so I added uranium/dark power 09:29:29 <liq3> lol ok 09:29:43 <liq3> Nuclear train engines :D 09:30:04 <V453000> fits the name I think 09:37:42 <liq3> V453000: I can't modify worker yard with the cheat menu :( 09:38:03 <peter1138> you can only modify primary industries. does it process things? 09:38:13 <liq3> yes. 09:38:30 <peter1138> that's why then :) 09:40:30 <liq3> the cheat menu diasppoints me :( 09:40:43 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@76.178.136.186] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:43:11 *** fjb [~frank@000158aa.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:43:38 <liq3> V453000: why are T9 strongs so light o.o 09:44:02 <liq3> YETIs are half weight? 09:46:54 <andythenorth> how would you cheat at a secondary industry? :o 09:49:56 *** fjb [~frank@000158aa.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 09:50:26 <liq3> andythenorth: cheat menu? 09:50:42 <andythenorth> but what would you be achieving? 09:50:48 <liq3> V453000: Gap is 257 pixels for strong, 267 pixels for medium, for TL3 Yetis full cargo. 09:51:06 <liq3> Tier 9s btw. 09:51:33 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@76.178.136.186] has joined #openttd 09:51:47 <liq3> andythenorth: producing cargo so I can load up? 09:51:57 <andythenorth> hmm 09:52:14 <andythenorth> so the cheat would be âprocessing industry produces without input'? 09:52:20 <liq3> yep. :D 09:52:28 <liq3> programming wise, could just add a flat value. 09:52:40 <liq3> a magical, cheat one 09:53:31 <andythenorth> industry code can do that 09:53:45 <andythenorth> so the cheat would just set the output value ? 09:53:52 <andythenorth> I donât think anyone will do it mind :P 09:54:04 <andythenorth> could be done without modifying game, just in newgrf 09:55:17 <liq3> dunno. 09:56:40 <andythenorth> could be done 09:56:45 <andythenorth> FIRS ports kind of do it 10:01:43 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@76.178.136.186] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:01:46 <liq3> V453000: even with a priority, the gap is strong 4, medium 5. 10:02:13 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@76.178.136.186] has joined #openttd 10:11:19 <V453000> modify worker yard in cheat menu? 10:12:07 <liq3> yeh, change production amount. 10:12:12 <liq3> so I can get more YETIs :D 10:12:19 <V453000> yeah, yeti wont work with that 10:12:25 <V453000> it uses different production code 10:12:27 <liq3> yeh. 10:12:30 <andythenorth> it would if you changed everything 10:12:33 <liq3> it's fine, minor issue. 10:12:38 <V453000> however you could go to scenario editor and grow the town 10:12:40 <andythenorth> read the production multiplier during production cb 10:12:43 <V453000> or set town_growth_rate to 4 10:12:55 <liq3> I just used fast forward. only need a few yetis. 10:12:58 <V453000> I dont think we want that andythenorth but I dont do the code anymore :P 10:13:10 <V453000> aha, didnt know you meant only in short term liq3 :P 10:13:11 <andythenorth> :o 10:13:13 <andythenorth> who codes it? 10:13:16 <V453000> Sylf 10:13:25 <liq3> Yeh, wanted like 1000 YETis to fill the trains. :D 10:13:27 <liq3> for the test. 10:13:33 <V453000> hm :) 10:13:43 <liq3> I still think there's almost no difference between strong and medium :D 10:13:48 <argoneus> is it possible 10:13:51 <argoneus> to have moving cargo? 10:13:54 <argoneus> like non static wagon sprites 10:14:15 <V453000> like wagons without wagon sprites, only cargo 10:14:17 <V453000> sure is 10:14:34 <argoneus> no but like 10:14:35 <liq3> There's so few situations where strong is better. 10:14:37 <argoneus> it will be a normal wagon 10:14:46 <argoneus> except the cargo will be e.g. cattle and the sheeps will be running around 10:14:49 <argoneus> but only when loaded obviously 10:14:52 <argoneus> is that possible? 10:14:56 <V453000> train length matters too liq3 , but yes they are very similar 10:14:58 <argoneus> the cows* 10:15:05 <V453000> compare them with monorail medium, also similar purpose 10:15:18 <V453000> runing around argoneus ? 10:15:33 <argoneus> yes 10:15:44 <argoneus> like when you load coal, it's just there, static 10:15:50 <argoneus> but imagine having a livestock wagon with an open roof 10:16:01 <argoneus> would it be possible to have the things inside move? 10:16:30 <V453000> yes 10:16:46 <V453000> little point in that though 10:16:54 <argoneus> why? 10:17:01 <V453000> it isnt really visible when the train is moving 10:17:05 <argoneus> you could make your yetis jump around on the wagon 10:17:07 <argoneus> :D 10:17:11 *** fjb is now known as Guest1006 10:17:13 *** fjb [~frank@000158aa.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 10:17:33 <V453000> not even mentioning that such animations could take a lot of cpu :) 10:17:55 <peter1138> you could have it moving around while it loaded 10:18:00 <argoneus> the cpu is not doing anything most of the time anyway :< 10:18:08 <peter1138> hahaha 10:18:12 <V453000> yeah, during loading would be somewhat ok 10:18:15 <argoneus> most cpu operations are DO NOTHING 10:18:45 <V453000> with 3000 trains it is a bit different argoneus 10:19:25 <liq3> Monorail Medium seems insane compared to rail. o.o 10:20:20 <V453000> yes, the capacity is the main downside 10:21:57 <liq3> yeh, cargo difference is pretty huge on TL3 trains. 10:23:12 <V453000> each train has its purpose, and in questionable cases you just choose whichever you feel like using the most :) 10:23:39 <V453000> TL3 is a case of that. there are many options 10:23:42 <argoneus> isn't that the point of NUTS after all? 10:23:52 <V453000> which is fine, because TL3 is most often used 10:23:53 <argoneus> instead of going for historical accuracy, you go for letting the player strategize what he needs where 10:23:56 <argoneus> and optimize 10:23:58 *** Guest1006 [~frank@000158aa.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:23:59 <V453000> sure 10:24:10 <liq3> There's not much strategy when all the trains are equal. xD 10:24:11 <argoneus> wait 10:24:14 <argoneus> TL3 is used most often? 10:24:20 <argoneus> I thought everyone used TL7? 10:24:25 <liq3> TL3 is the easiest to work with. 10:24:29 <V453000> good people use TL3 10:24:33 <V453000> mostly 10:24:36 <argoneus> I'll have to use TL3 then!! 10:24:38 <V453000> I use TL5 personally 10:24:56 <argoneus> oh 10:25:07 <V453000> it depends on the map 10:25:16 <V453000> if if is flat and smooth then TL3 isnt that beneficial 10:25:17 <argoneus> is it because with TL3, it's easier to tell where you need more trains, it's easier to add them and they flow all the time so you don't have bursts? 10:25:25 <V453000> no 10:25:41 <V453000> shorter trains == shorter curves == shorter waiting spots == shorter stations, everythinh smaller 10:26:05 <argoneus> but it's more expensive 10:26:21 <V453000> sure, if you have millions after an hour of playing, expensive matters 10:27:26 <argoneus> you have millions after an hour? 10:27:50 <argoneus> do you have some sort of weird trick? 10:27:55 <argoneus> that the developers hate you for? 10:27:58 <V453000> certainly amount I cant reasonably spend? 10:28:19 *** fjb [~frank@000158aa.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:28:22 <V453000> note that it depends on settings and costs, NUTS is cheap so getting money is equally fast 10:28:31 <V453000> obviously you just build a lot of trains and it comes easily 10:28:35 <argoneus> why is TL7 not so great, though? 10:28:40 <argoneus> it's not hard to make curves for TL7 10:28:45 <argoneus> there's usually a lot of space on map 10:28:46 <V453000> then you play on super flat maps 10:29:00 <argoneus> but it's funny 10:29:03 <V453000> aha 10:29:04 <argoneus> when I join a server 10:29:05 <V453000> well then 10:29:09 <argoneus> and see people 10:29:11 <argoneus> that have like TL15 10:29:18 <argoneus> I didn't even know the game allowed that 10:29:21 <V453000> well, they also never have hubs and complex stations 10:29:34 <liq3> V453000: wow, if my math is right, Monorail and medium rail are almost identical in throughput at TL3... 10:29:40 <V453000> as soon as you start expanding the network and need more, more and more stuff, shorter trains are better 10:29:45 <argoneus> so does TL5/3 make things easier>? 10:29:45 <liq3> ...which is bad for rail, because monorail becomes better the longer the train gets. :P 10:30:10 <V453000> argoneus: a lot. 10:30:13 <argoneus> I wonder 10:30:18 <V453000> every tile of train length is a big difference 10:30:19 <argoneus> is TL3 actually detrimental to income on super flat maps? 10:30:28 <argoneus> or not really 10:30:31 <V453000> income doesnt matter 10:30:39 <liq3> ^ 10:30:52 <V453000> but amount and distance with slight effect of speed matters for money 10:30:55 <argoneus> b-but how will I flash my epeen at my friends with my company value? 10:31:19 <V453000> regardless, liq3, at longer times monorail medium gets less TE, and there are other trains which are probably better at longer TL 10:31:26 <argoneus> how does company value work anyway, it seems weird 10:31:40 <argoneus> is it current money + income? 10:31:41 <V453000> you wont, you will show them the raw power of 1000 trains on your small island 10:31:49 <argoneus> lol 10:31:49 <liq3> V453000: Medium monorail has 1.6k Max TE tho.... 10:31:54 <liq3> and TE barely matters. 10:31:57 <V453000> only noobs shit bricks from numbers, seeing the insane network is better 10:32:27 <V453000> liq3: idk, but it should mean that it reduces potency with higher TL :P 10:32:39 <argoneus> though yeah 10:32:43 <argoneus> the coop trains I saw 10:32:48 <argoneus> they more felt like a flowing water 10:32:49 <argoneus> than trains 10:32:51 <liq3> V453000: you'd have to get massive TL for it to matter. XD 10:33:04 <V453000> and strong will be again good with TL5, or even something for extra utility, shortening curve requirements - maglev or slugs are very good with TL5+ 10:33:09 <liq3> TE mainly matters for long, powerful trains and hills. 10:33:13 <argoneus> so there's nothing wrong with using TL3 for everything? 10:33:20 <V453000> argoneus: you just saw one of many :) 10:33:34 <V453000> there isnt, but on a stupidly flat map it isnt gaining anything either argoneus 10:33:35 <argoneus> I just thought the maintenance would be horribly high 10:33:41 <V453000> oh god prices again 10:33:42 <argoneus> I mean, even if it looks good, it should be monetarily efficient, no? 10:33:47 <V453000> you CANT buy a good network 10:33:51 <V453000> you have to be able to build it 10:33:56 *** fjb [~frank@000158aa.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 10:34:13 <V453000> if you have curves long 7, you wont build a small hub in the mountains 10:34:25 <liq3> argoneus: money is irrelevant. you end up stupidly rich with any decent network. 10:34:32 <argoneus> well, yeah 10:34:42 <argoneus> but I like being in the +, and having things optimized that way too 10:34:50 <V453000> you are in the + easily 10:34:57 <liq3> i'm making m a year with 250 TL3 trains. :/ 10:34:58 <V453000> PS with NUTS you cant really be in the negative :P 10:35:02 <liq3> on a 256x256 map. 10:35:19 <liq3> it'd be like 0m on a 512x512 map. 10:35:46 <argoneus> so it's like 10:36:04 <argoneus> TL3 for easier management, TL7 for more transported cargo, and TL5 inbetween? 10:36:11 *** Brumi [~quassel@78-131-41-191.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #openttd 10:36:14 <argoneus> er, more at once* 10:36:23 <liq3> I think TL7 is more for the challenge. 10:36:38 <peter1138> Oh god, 1x GUI is so small :S 10:36:42 <V453000> it all depends on many things 10:36:44 <argoneus> do you mean, challenged? 10:37:00 <V453000> generally, yes, the longer trains you can afford to build, the more cargo you can move due to less gaps on tracks 10:37:02 <liq3> well with stock trains maglev is completely superior to everything afaik. 10:37:10 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: remember when the game was 640x480? 10:37:12 <liq3> and keeping TL7 maglev trains at top speed is hard. 10:37:15 <V453000> in practice, it might be easier to move more cargo with TL3 than with TL7 10:37:25 <peter1138> :-) 10:37:29 <V453000> stock trains are just bad :) 10:37:32 <liq3> yeh. 10:37:40 <liq3> Lev4 is the best afaik lol. Nothing else comes close. 10:37:43 <peter1138> I tried with double-size sprite font, it's horrible. 10:37:55 <V453000> Lev4 has so atrocious acceleration that Lev3 is the only usable option 10:38:04 <Eddi|zuHause> back when it was still supported, i played in double mode all the time 10:38:25 <argoneus> I want to kiss whoever invented shared orders 10:38:33 <argoneus> it was the #1 annoying thing in vanilla 10:38:38 <argoneus> that, and not being able to clone 10:38:53 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, it probably looks different than just double-size icons and text. 10:38:56 <liq3> V453000: I'm not sure that's true. 10:39:08 <V453000> it is, proven countless times 10:39:17 <liq3> If you say so. :P 10:39:23 <liq3> Lev3 still destroys monorail and rail. 10:39:24 <V453000> TL3 with 2x Lev3 is TONS better than Lev4 10:39:26 <V453000> without question 10:39:27 <argoneus> but why does acceleration matter, if it's long distance and you don't have 100 trains on the same track? 10:39:31 <Eddi|zuHause> there was also a patch that made some pixel interpolation 10:39:45 <Eddi|zuHause> like "hq2x" 10:39:50 <V453000> argoneus: it matters how many trains you put on the track 10:40:03 <V453000> if you dont have 100 trains on the same network then you just dont have a network 10:40:10 <V453000> at that point you could as well use ships. 10:40:21 <Eddi|zuHause> but because it was optimised for isometric lines, text sometimes looked weird 10:40:21 <peter1138> 2x lev3 yes 10:40:28 <peter1138> 30000 instead of 20000 hp 10:40:29 <argoneus> so the point of the game 10:40:41 <liq3> lev3 has lower top speed tho. 10:40:44 <argoneus> is not to have one huge train across the entire map, but a steady flow of trains everywhere? 10:40:53 <V453000> lower top speed is only beneficial, they reaceh top speed sooner 10:40:57 <V453000> in this case 10:40:58 <argoneus> or is that just your personal goal 10:41:05 <liq3> it depends on how much trains stop and start. it's not clear cut. :p 10:41:06 <Eddi|zuHause> if you're going for track density, lower speed and more power is better 10:41:09 <V453000> the game isnt about anything, you make your own goal 10:41:25 <V453000> liq3: Lev3 vs Lev4 is totally clear 10:41:29 <argoneus> but after all this time the game has been minmaxed and optimized for best results, no? 10:41:30 <V453000> sorry :) 10:41:44 <V453000> argoneus: what is best result? :D 10:41:51 <liq3> V453000: even if you have a seperate mainline going from steel to factory, and another for goods to town? :p 10:41:54 <Eddi|zuHause> i've used the Levs maybe 10 years ago the last time... 10:41:56 <argoneus> using all industries to their full potential 10:41:57 <argoneus> I'd guess 10:42:01 <Eddi|zuHause> in some TTDP 1.7 game 10:42:21 <argoneus> you are limited by industries and their production 10:42:25 <Eddi|zuHause> basically, that's the only time i used them... 10:42:26 <V453000> liq3: if each of them is 50% used, then it doesnt matter, if both are full, it matters a ton 10:42:28 <argoneus> so pushing that limit is the goal? 10:42:42 <argoneus> imho at least 10:42:44 <V453000> argoneus: industries producing 2295 units/month each are IMPOSSIBLE to transport all 10:42:46 <liq3> V453000: so it's more that lev3 is better on dense network.s :P 10:43:01 <liq3> eh really? 10:43:17 <argoneus> V453000: are you sure it's impossible? o.o 10:43:26 <liq3> V453000: I dunno, that 5000 train map.... :P 10:43:30 <V453000> I had 200 000 goods production in pzg2013 with 5000 trains and super special network, 11 tracks of absolutely FULL to the max with TL5 10:43:42 <liq3> haha 10:43:44 <V453000> so, like 80 industries would that be 10:43:55 <V453000> in our coop game where we used 2295 industries I think we had like 25 farms 10:44:07 <V453000> 5 lines in each direction on the mainline or more 10:44:12 <V453000> total hell 10:44:24 <argoneus> oh wow 10:44:48 <V453000> now obviously if you moved cargo by 30 tiles from each industry to local factories, it would work 10:44:51 <V453000> I am talking about one big network 10:44:56 <Eddi|zuHause> use 5000 ships :p 10:45:24 <peter1138> heh 10:45:27 <peter1138> yeah, even with 1 head 10:45:35 <peter1138> lev3 is faster 10:45:42 <V453000> yes it is 10:45:57 <V453000> the 643kmh is just too much 10:45:57 <peter1138> only on really long runs will lev4 keep up 10:46:08 <V453000> yes but that means nothing will disrupt it :P 10:46:38 <Eddi|zuHause> introduce braking distance and gradual slowdown on red signal 10:47:03 <V453000> I dont think that helps? :D 10:47:12 <argoneus> introduce train overtaking 10:47:20 <V453000> XD 10:47:38 <andythenorth> train wormholes 10:47:41 <argoneus> has there ever been a coop game 10:47:42 <andythenorth> just use ships :P 10:47:45 <argoneus> where you made only road vehicles 10:47:47 <argoneus> or would that be boring 10:47:49 <V453000> yes 10:47:54 <V453000> it is boring but it happened 10:47:59 <andythenorth> increase ship speed limit :P 10:48:07 <V453000> see my user page, 5000 road vehicles on 256x256 10:48:10 <V453000> on coop wiki 10:48:17 <argoneus> oh jesus 10:48:24 <V453000> http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/User:V453000 10:48:33 <V453000> that was slightly interesting yeah 10:48:57 <V453000> but there isnt really any way how to control RVs -> there is nothing to learn -> boring sooner orl ater 10:49:06 <argoneus> waypoints and oneway signals 10:49:07 <argoneus> :< 10:49:09 <liq3> V453000: TL3 Lev4 doesn't accelerate that slow. :/ 10:49:15 <V453000> jesus fuck 10:49:17 <liq3> sure, it's slow compared to lev3.... 10:49:24 <peter1138> hmm, 85 tiles for Lev4 to catch up with 2x Lev3 10:49:29 <V453000> yes, it is relative, THAT slow can also mean something else, but Lev4 is HORRIBLE 10:49:33 <V453000> see prozone game 19 10:49:40 <V453000> we used it there 10:49:49 <liq3> hrm 10:49:58 <liq3> what was wrong with it in that game? 10:50:17 <V453000> density? that they break on every merging point if you let them to? 10:50:29 <V453000> if you let them to == unless you build super oversized and wtf joiners 10:50:56 <liq3> hrm. I guess I can see it causing huge gaps because of the high top speed. 10:51:02 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has left #openttd [] 10:51:03 <Eddi|zuHause> in my game i had to timetable the transrapid so it wouldn't ever meet at the merge 10:51:20 <Eddi|zuHause> because that cut the capacity like in half... 10:51:33 <V453000> timetable doesnt work with big networks yeah :) in small scale you can fiddle with things 10:51:35 <Eddi|zuHause> and it wouldn't ever recover from that 10:51:41 <V453000> one of our guys even did signal-less networks 10:51:45 <V453000> "networks" 10:52:00 <V453000> multiple trains in one tunnel \o/ :D 10:52:08 <liq3> oh god that thing lol. 10:52:37 <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds like brianetta 10:53:07 <V453000> no, mfb 10:53:17 <peter1138> i miss easy separation 10:53:24 <peter1138> which timetables promise but i can't figure out :p 10:53:57 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: just set up the times, and ctrl+click on start date... 10:54:17 <peter1138> I tried that, does not work. 10:54:48 <Eddi|zuHause> depends how interruption-heavy your network is 11:00:23 <peter1138> Ok so I have 2 trains... 11:00:29 <peter1138> and they run together :( 11:02:02 <Eddi|zuHause> then they blocked each other on some junction, and the waiting time at station does not suffice to balance that out 11:02:08 <peter1138> Nope 11:02:17 <peter1138> run it always running late 11:02:52 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. separation does not work when they are running late 11:03:03 <peter1138> There's no reason for them to run late 11:03:09 <peter1138> The timetable is long enough 11:04:19 <Eddi|zuHause> visiting depot? 11:04:44 <Eddi|zuHause> not able to overtake? 11:04:51 <peter1138> Yes, plenty of time 11:05:22 <peter1138> Ok, think I got it, I have to set the date well in the future so that all trains can wait. 11:06:18 <peter1138> ctrl+click on start date (and set the date to sometime int he future) 11:06:22 <Pikka> eh, too fiddly 11:06:25 <peter1138> Yeah 11:06:38 <peter1138> And then, if you ever change it, you have to resync it all over again 11:06:59 <V453000> what if you autoreplace trains? 11:07:44 *** fjb [~frank@000158aa.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:08:37 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@95.76.27.245] has quit [] 11:08:54 *** fjb [~frank@000158aa.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 11:09:04 <peter1138> yeah, if ever a train gets out of sync... 11:09:09 <peter1138> it's a bitch to put it back 11:09:23 <peter1138> Wasn't there an autoseparation patch? 11:09:38 <planetmaker> ctrl+click with time table 11:09:44 <peter1138> planetmaker, please read up 11:09:55 <planetmaker> how boring ;) 11:10:03 <V453000> expanding the network sounds like a better idea :P 11:10:29 <peter1138> planetmaker, it doesn't work usefully. 11:10:40 <peter1138> The moment a train gets sidetracked it's all screwed 11:10:49 <V453000> world ends 11:11:18 <peter1138> Now I have both trains running on time, but they're not separated, and I didn't touch any buttons. 11:11:27 <planetmaker> I agree. It's a bit of a nuissance to get working 11:11:34 <planetmaker> maybe that's why I hardly use it 11:11:41 <peter1138> it's a BAD FEATURE 11:11:42 <peter1138> hah 11:12:10 <peter1138> if the train is too delayed that it will never catch up, it should wait until the next cycle. 11:12:28 <peter1138> seems that should be simple enough to implement, it already knows the length of the cycle 11:17:20 <V453000> sounds reasonable 11:17:58 <V453000> but there are other solution to trains stacking, make them have different paths / give them conditional orders to sometimes go elsewhere 11:18:15 <V453000> and they will not create the typical snake where they travel all together 11:19:49 <V453000> definitely more interesting to think about systematic things than suffering hell trying to make a primitive feature work 11:19:54 <V453000> "solve the game for me" :P 11:20:03 *** mode/#openttd [+b *!*V453000@*.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] by peter1138 11:20:03 *** V453000 was kicked from #openttd by peter1138 [stfu] 11:20:14 *** mode/#openttd [-b *!*V453000@*.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] by peter1138 11:20:42 <planetmaker> meh 11:20:50 <argoneus> why 11:24:14 <__ln__> eeeeend of discussion 11:25:04 <planetmaker> quite so it seems. 11:25:29 <planetmaker> in the most boring way imaginable 11:29:16 *** V453000 [~V453000@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 11:29:18 <V453000> wat 11:29:26 <V453000> I dont even remember what I said :D 11:29:30 <peter1138> <3 11:30:21 <V453000> !logs 11:30:23 <V453000> @logs 11:30:23 <DorpsGek> V453000: http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd 11:30:32 <peter1138> i got some bacon left over 11:30:46 <V453000> booring 11:31:26 <peter1138> https://bugs.openttd.org/task/1128 11:31:38 <peter1138> Says "implemented at some point" but it's not :S 11:32:30 <peter1138> Well, maybe implemented differently 11:33:48 <planetmaker> it should have been rubi's work 11:33:59 <planetmaker> some basic form of it 11:34:28 <peter1138> Yeah, bits are there. 11:35:02 <planetmaker> feel free to re-open it, if it's not yet done. It was then my understanding it is... and I'm sure I checked back with *someone* before I closed it :) 11:35:12 <planetmaker> but history is dark and gray :) 11:35:14 <planetmaker> and murky 11:36:23 *** Supercheese is now known as Guest1011 11:36:24 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@76.178.136.186] has joined #openttd 11:37:33 *** Guest1011 [~Superchee@76.178.136.186] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:37:40 <argoneus> planetmaker: you are dutch? 11:37:52 <V453000> XD 11:38:39 <planetmaker> yes yes. Also Dutch 11:39:24 <argoneus> nice 11:39:58 <V453000> everybody dutch 11:40:06 <planetmaker> reminds me of an aquaintance... German nationality, speaks only English, lives in France. Or something like that 11:40:22 <planetmaker> quite so, V453000 ;) 11:51:54 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@95.76.27.245] has joined #openttd 12:09:12 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@95.76.27.245] has quit [] 12:12:42 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@95.76.27.245] has joined #openttd 12:24:42 <Eddi|zuHause> <peter1138> ctrl+click on start date (and set the date to sometime int he future) <-- what always puzzled me a bit was that the start date is the date where it arrives at the station, not when it leaves... 12:26:12 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: autoseparation is a pain once you try to synchronize two routes 12:28:55 *** lugo [~oftc-webi@000189e6.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:38:07 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: also, autoseparation has a negative feedback effect with traffic jams 12:49:54 *** luaduck_zzz is now known as luaduck 12:51:52 *** KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@pool-72-94-147-76.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:52:11 *** KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@pool-72-94-147-76.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 12:55:04 *** abchirk [~abchirk@p57A0ACC1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 12:55:04 *** Jomann [~abchirk@p57A0ACC1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:58:28 *** lugo [~oftc-webi@tmo-106-125.customers.d1-online.com] has joined #openttd 13:17:19 *** Brumi [~quassel@78-131-41-191.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [] 13:29:23 <_maddy> hmm, can I replace both my engines + cars at once? 13:29:36 <argoneus> es 13:29:37 <argoneus> yes 13:29:48 <argoneus> just set both to autoreplace 13:32:18 <_maddy> works perfectly, even cargo is not lost :) 13:33:20 <Celestar> lalala :D 13:33:20 <argoneus> thanks obama 13:35:55 *** Pereba [~UserNick@179.181.239.7] has joined #openttd 13:41:32 *** Biolunar [Biolunar@000169fb.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 13:47:15 <_maddy> why do the yeti dudes look like yellow ducks? 13:47:32 *** lugo [~oftc-webi@tmo-106-125.customers.d1-online.com] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:47:34 <Pikka> they're in disguise 13:48:28 <V453000> no better sprites yet _maddy :) 13:48:44 <V453000> and it isnt THAT FAR from truth XD 13:49:01 <Pikka> let's see the latest incarnation, then 13:49:18 <V453000> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/YETI/industry_4X_f0000.png 13:49:53 <argoneus> kawaii 13:49:54 <V453000> plastic duck has been refined into a plastic hat now 13:50:20 <Pikka> :F 13:50:22 <argoneus> you're making me want to try out 3dsmax 13:50:31 <argoneus> but I won't succumb, for I would be very disappointed by myself 13:50:41 <Pikka> are they more or less final now? 13:51:09 <Pikka> they're not as yetiish as the first version :P 13:51:12 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@88.130.189.140] has joined #openttd 13:54:45 *** theholyduck [~theholydu@172.245.30.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:59:25 <V453000> yeah I think that is design-wise final-for-now 13:59:31 *** Pereba [~UserNick@179.181.239.7] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:59:37 <V453000> indeed not as yeti-ish but a lot clearer at the x4 to see what it is 13:59:44 <V453000> and well, I like the cartoony look 14:00:08 *** Pereba [~UserNick@179.181.239.7] has joined #openttd 14:00:11 <V453000> argoneus: you can probably get very similar output in any of blender/cinema4D/whatever 14:00:20 <V453000> with good textures and some solid renderer 14:00:52 <argoneus> V453000: well, it's more that I'm not familiar with the tools and I'm a shitty artist 14:01:01 <argoneus> when I looked at people model 14:01:26 <argoneus> they used the extorts and other things really smoothly and with hotkeys and got really nice results really fast 14:01:44 <argoneus> I guess that's just raw practice 14:01:52 <V453000> hotkeys are Only, and only a matter of practice 14:02:12 <V453000> fast is not very common in 3D, it is work, and a lot of work :) 14:02:34 <argoneus> how fast can you form a fancy pillar out of a cube in 3dsmax? 14:03:38 <V453000> depends, which pillar? 14:03:55 <argoneus> I don't know, I'm not an architect 14:04:05 <argoneus> just some nice pillar with some carved mosaics on the side maybe 14:04:36 <argoneus> or a WW2 soldier helmet 14:04:39 <V453000> carved mosaics XD 14:04:42 <argoneus> one of those german ones, you know the shape 14:04:47 <argoneus> I tried making a helmet in 3ds once 14:04:53 <argoneus> took me like 6 hours and I had to follow a tutorial too 14:04:54 <argoneus> ;; 14:04:57 <V453000> helmet, hm, could take a few hours 14:05:16 <argoneus> isn't it just a sphere with some cut out insides? 14:05:37 <V453000> well depends how you need to use it, if 2-sided as a mass, it gets a lot harder 14:05:49 <argoneus> oh 14:05:55 <V453000> you could probably start from a sphere,you could do other things 14:06:04 <V453000> there are many approaches to it and the usage matters a lot 14:06:28 <V453000> also if there is going to be closeup look, like if you need to make scratches through textures/normal maps, ... 14:06:47 <V453000> for example making those latest YETIs with the helmet took me 1 full work day 14:07:01 <V453000> modeling, mapping, texturing, rigging 14:07:25 *** theholyduck [~theholydu@172.245.30.36] has joined #openttd 14:07:31 <V453000> not quite done though 14:07:44 <V453000> the rigging is very quick and dirty and needs improving for proper animating 14:07:47 <V453000> if not even redoing 14:09:08 <argoneus> the extent of my modelling skins is making a body armor for mount & blade 14:09:10 <argoneus> and it looked shit 14:09:11 <argoneus> :< 14:09:14 <argoneus> skills 14:09:15 <argoneus> * 14:09:42 <V453000> I liked one quote: The good people have failed more times than the bad people ever tried. 14:09:48 <V453000> hence, practice. :) 14:10:16 <V453000> and especially 3D things take a lot of it 14:10:38 <argoneus> I wish I was motivated to learn new things when I come home 14:11:03 <V453000> you dont wish that, you just either do it or not :) 14:11:25 <argoneus> well 14:11:29 <argoneus> but I am tempted to do other things more 14:11:38 <argoneus> and end up doing those instead 14:11:42 <argoneus> there's not enough time in a day :( 14:12:07 <V453000> I agree with the last statement :> 14:12:23 <planetmaker> <V453000> I liked one quote: The good people have failed more times than the bad people ever tried. <-- i like that :) 14:13:46 <argoneus> I like that the better someone is at something 14:13:49 <argoneus> the worse they think they are 14:13:54 <Pikka> V: when it's done, send one over and I'll put it on a flatcar :) 14:13:56 <argoneus> like, they see more mistakes than before 14:13:58 <argoneus> because they are adept at it 14:14:02 <argoneus> and think they got worse 14:14:07 <V453000> I sure will Pikka :) thanks 14:15:19 <V453000> I just need to rig it properly 14:15:26 <V453000> then you can create your own pose as you like 14:15:33 <V453000> the current skinning is just borkd :D 14:16:06 <argoneus> I never understood rigging properly 14:16:20 <V453000> me neither which is why I am trying to 14:16:21 <argoneus> is it like, making a skeletal model, and then you connect the vertices of the model to the skeleton? 14:16:30 <V453000> something like that yes 14:16:34 <V453000> there are various ways how to do it 14:16:53 <V453000> but basically you create bone structure to which vertices are linked -somehow- 14:17:10 <V453000> but it isnt just that, that is the basic step 14:17:19 <V453000> the more important thing is to make bones interact with each other properly 14:17:19 <argoneus> and if you do it wrong you get vertices that overlap eachother :D 14:17:34 <V453000> e.g. a hand has a helper object, you just move the helper object and the arm automatically follows 14:17:35 <V453000> etc 14:17:44 <argoneus> oh 14:17:48 <argoneus> never heard of that 14:17:51 <V453000> yeah, typically glitches in some bad poses etc 14:17:58 <V453000> it is called inverse kinematics, IK 14:18:25 <argoneus> so instead of saying 14:18:28 <V453000> there is a lot more to it but I dont understand all of it yet 14:18:33 <argoneus> hand, clench fist and move forward here 14:18:34 <argoneus> you say 14:18:40 <argoneus> hand, punch in this direction 14:18:43 <argoneus> and that's what the helper obj is for? 14:18:48 <V453000> you could do that yes 14:18:57 <V453000> basically you create GUI for controlling the character 14:19:09 <argoneus> oh 14:19:11 <V453000> the more control the animator has, the better 14:19:15 <argoneus> that helps you set some constraints too, right 14:19:21 <argoneus> like it won't let you move the hand in a way it'd break 14:19:28 <argoneus> or mess up the model 14:19:48 *** Celestar [~Celestar@mnch-5d857770.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:19:50 <V453000> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Df--osKiI_c 14:19:53 <V453000> typical example 14:19:57 <argoneus> I'm at work right now, can't watch :< 14:19:59 <V453000> that doesnt have any IK, just facial animations 14:20:08 <V453000> yeah, limits 14:20:14 <V453000> constraint is something a bit different :) 14:20:22 <argoneus> also inverse kinematics spawns flashbacks in my head 14:20:24 <argoneus> of interior semiotics 14:20:26 * argoneus shivers 14:21:04 <V453000> ok when you watch it, the legs have IK, hands are "FK" (forward kinematics) which means they are to be animated manually by moving bones/helper objects 14:23:15 <Pikka> hmm, max animation... 14:24:29 <Pikka> I remember these guys http://i.imgur.com/EwUjEfx.png ... good times :D 14:26:11 <argoneus> V453000: how much do you reckon the model of a soldier in a game takes to make these days? 14:26:16 <argoneus> how long* 14:26:29 <argoneus> like, those super realistic human soldiers 14:26:35 <argoneus> can a model take even weeks to make? 14:33:34 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220149.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:38:22 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-5f7415d9.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 14:39:04 <argoneus> V453000: are any tools even comparable to 3ds? 14:39:04 *** abchirk [~abchirk@p57A0ACC1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:39:31 <argoneus> on your level that is 14:39:36 <argoneus> for me everything would be sufficient I'd guess 14:40:45 *** Pikka [~Octomom@d58-106-19-186.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:54:39 <V453000> one model doesnt just take months 14:54:48 <V453000> one model can be hundreds of people, and months 14:55:03 <V453000> like in pixar 14:55:05 <V453000> anyway, gtg 15:06:18 *** Alberth [~hat@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd 15:06:21 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 15:07:38 *** Pulec [pulec@unaffilated.amunak.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:31:21 *** kais58___ is now known as kais58|AFK 15:32:08 *** Pereba_ [~UserNick@179.179.21.120] has joined #openttd 15:32:31 *** kais58|AFK is now known as kais58___ 15:32:51 *** Pulec [pulec@unaffilated.amunak.net] has joined #openttd 15:36:44 *** Pereba [~UserNick@179.181.239.7] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:36:49 *** Pereba_ is now known as Pereba 15:41:59 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@95.76.27.245] has quit [] 15:41:59 *** Pereba [~UserNick@179.179.21.120] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:46:06 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@95.76.27.245] has joined #openttd 15:56:13 *** Jelmazmo [~kvirc@host-2-60-201-169.pppoe.omsknet.ru] has joined #openttd 16:02:19 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@95.76.27.245] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:08:36 <argoneus> ayyyy lmao 16:08:42 <argoneus> oops 16:08:49 <argoneus> why is this channel my default 16:11:49 *** liq3 [~liq3@CPE-120-147-178-81.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has quit [] 16:12:04 *** Jelmazmo [~kvirc@host-2-60-201-169.pppoe.omsknet.ru] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 16:12:21 <peter1138> Because it's the best. 16:22:37 *** TheMask96 [martijn@lust.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:24:49 *** TheMask96 [martijn@pride.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 16:40:23 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@95.76.27.245] has joined #openttd 16:46:24 *** Extrems [borgs@modemcable204.141-177-173.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:51:54 *** theholyduck [~theholydu@172.245.30.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:57:05 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@95.76.27.245] has quit [] 16:58:12 *** Mso150 [~Mso150@80.83.238.53] has joined #openttd 17:00:52 *** theholyduck [~theholydu@172.245.30.36] has joined #openttd 17:02:04 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 17:02:07 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 17:05:26 *** luaduck_zzz [~luaduck@0001c465.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 17:08:46 *** fjb [~frank@000158aa.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 17:08:58 *** theholyduck [~theholydu@172.245.30.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:10:36 *** luaduck [~luaduck@0001c465.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:10:36 *** luaduck_zzz is now known as luaduck 17:15:28 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@95.76.27.245] has joined #openttd 17:19:08 *** theholyduck [~theholydu@172.245.30.36] has joined #openttd 17:35:23 *** theholyduck [~theholydu@172.245.30.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:46:21 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r26982 trunk/src/lang/simplified_chinese.txt (2014-10-09 17:46:13 UTC) 17:46:22 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:46:23 <DorpsGek> simplified_chinese - 39 changes by siu238X 17:47:06 *** gelignite [~gelignite@i528C36AE.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 17:49:32 <_maddy> I hate the town authority, they are always preventing me from building stations... and now I got caught bribing 17:53:17 <_maddy> a small town too, with 389 people, and this mayor acts like a big shot 17:57:05 *** theholyduck [~theholydu@172.245.30.36] has joined #openttd 17:58:18 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18989.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 18:02:46 <peter1138> Okay, vehicle group profits, where should they go? 18:03:03 <Prof_Frink> Into my offshore account. 18:03:08 <peter1138> :D 18:03:14 <peter1138> Display wise :p 18:03:41 <frosch123> you mean "numbers"? we already have icons 18:03:42 *** kais58___ is now known as kais58|AFK 18:04:00 <frosch123> put them in a tooltip or something? 18:04:11 <peter1138> Hmm 18:08:34 <Supercheese> "This group earned $X last year"? 18:09:55 * peter1138 looks at how the depot window does it. 18:13:43 <planetmaker> the group window could have an additional line in the very top which states that with group statistics 18:15:42 <Alberth> peter1138: like FS#1042 ? (haven't looked at the actual patch though) 18:16:11 <peter1138> 1042 sounds old :) 18:16:28 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host156-13-dynamic.20-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 18:16:50 <Wolf01> hello 18:16:55 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 18:17:13 <Alberth> it probably is old :p 18:17:20 <Alberth> hi wolf, andy 18:17:25 <Wolf01> o/ 18:18:19 <andythenorth> âthe 8bpp puts off playersâ thing is probably true but over-rated 18:18:35 <andythenorth> based on the number of limited-palette, pixelart iOS games I see played 18:18:45 <andythenorth> at 2x or 4x zoom no less 18:19:20 <peter1138> Who claims that? 18:19:29 <andythenorth> people, regularly 18:19:32 <andythenorth> mostly in the forums 18:19:43 <andythenorth> floods of players will turn up if we only make it 32bpp 18:19:59 <peter1138> Most people only think 8bpp means blocky... 18:20:23 <andythenorth> yeah nobody plays this https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.crescentmoongames.blocky_roads&hl=en_GB 18:20:29 <andythenorth> or the similar voxel stuff 18:20:48 <peter1138> Minecraft is not popular at all... 18:20:53 <andythenorth> and simply nobody plays the nimblebit stuff http://www.nimblebit.com 18:20:58 <andythenorth> and lego, everyone hates lego 18:21:02 <peter1138> But hey, that's not 8bpp. 18:21:15 <andythenorth> well 18:21:16 <andythenorth> yes 18:21:41 <andythenorth> conflation of 32bpp and EZ 18:21:55 <peter1138> tt-forums appears to have stopped for me :S 18:22:18 <andythenorth> a big loss? 18:22:21 <peter1138> yeah but then they conflate 32bpp with realistic scale, smooth curves, and all that malarkey 18:24:04 <peter1138> Ah, Digitalfox... 18:24:25 <peter1138> Even mentions Minecraft as 8bpp o_O 18:27:23 <Supercheese> 8 bacons per pig 18:27:36 * Supercheese would much rather have 32 bacons per pig 18:36:21 *** TomyLobo [~foo@91.65.115.103] has joined #openttd 18:37:22 <peter1138> Hmm, it works, but... 18:38:42 *** Jelmazmo [~kvirc@host-2-60-134-89.pppoe.omsknet.ru] has joined #openttd 18:39:15 <frosch123> screenshot? 18:39:41 *** Jelmazmo [~kvirc@host-2-60-134-89.pppoe.omsknet.ru] has quit [] 18:44:15 <peter1138> http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/groupprofit.png 18:44:26 <peter1138> Needs a different string cos the existing one uses {SMALL} 18:44:50 <frosch123> he, you are back to small icons and big font? :) 18:45:06 <peter1138> Clean branch for this. 18:45:54 <frosch123> i guess a \n would look nice between "Profit this year:" and "Profit last year:" 18:46:13 <peter1138> Feels like I should have a button to expand the window to add enough space to just put it into the window itself. 18:48:46 <andythenorth> hmm 18:48:53 <andythenorth> groups gui is shonky anyway 18:48:55 <andythenorth> dunno why 18:48:59 * andythenorth thinks on 18:49:07 <peter1138> Yes it is a bit. 18:49:15 <frosch123> change it into a routes window :p 18:49:50 <peter1138> yeah 18:50:32 <andythenorth> we canât columnate? 18:50:36 <andythenorth> profit column? 18:50:40 <andythenorth> with sum? 18:50:41 <andythenorth> bit boring 18:50:42 <peter1138> groups and shared orders probably shouldn't be separate things 18:50:47 <frosch123> no excel please 18:50:47 <andythenorth> well 18:51:09 <peter1138> but then that makes everything different 18:52:10 <andythenorth> just sacrifice a row to group metadata 18:52:15 <andythenorth> profit and crap 18:52:28 <frosch123> you can somewhat fake it by adding two settings: "always keep shared orders in the same group", "automatically create new group on vehicle construction" 18:52:32 <andythenorth> does it actually matter? I just look for red numbers next to vehicles 18:53:00 <andythenorth> it = group profits 18:53:32 <frosch123> hmm, or only "always keep shared vehicles in the same group" and then making them appear as subgroups in the tree 18:54:02 <frosch123> andythenorth: you can already see the redness :p 18:54:03 <andythenorth> oh where did âprotect this group from global autoreplaceâ come from? :o 18:54:13 <frosch123> it's as old as the groups? 18:54:20 <andythenorth> it is? 18:54:26 <andythenorth> yet another feature I never knew about 18:54:31 <frosch123> yes, only reason why groups were added 18:54:39 <andythenorth> how interesting 18:54:46 <andythenorth> clearly a very learnable ui :D 18:54:49 <frosch123> the only usage of groups is autoreplace, isn't it? 18:54:55 <andythenorth> for me yes 18:55:16 <andythenorth> so group profit is useful because...? 18:55:42 <frosch123> well, profit is generally not particulary useful 18:56:22 *** fjb [~frank@000158aa.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 18:56:29 <fjb> Moin 18:56:36 <frosch123> hola 18:56:44 <fjb> Quak frosch123 18:56:45 <andythenorth> I would happily see groups die in favour of consist management :P 18:56:51 <andythenorth> but thenâŠnothing may be removed 19:02:38 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 19:10:44 <peter1138> not sure how those two are exclusive to each other 19:10:55 <andythenorth> me neither 19:11:06 <andythenorth> but we have groups, shared orders, station orders... 19:11:29 <andythenorth> and groups mostly exists for auto-replace? 19:11:42 <peter1138> allegedly 19:11:48 <andythenorth> dunno, it baffles everyone Iâve seen touch it :D 19:12:00 <peter1138> someone thought it was useful to add :p 19:12:08 <andythenorth> it is 19:12:25 <andythenorth> definitely less yak-shaving than fucking around doing it by hand 19:12:27 <peter1138> Anyway, by consist management what do you mean? 19:13:27 <andythenorth> assign each train (or group I guess) to follow a pattern 19:13:55 <peter1138> Still doesn't help me understand. 19:13:55 <andythenorth> changing the pattern causes the trains slaved to it to go to depot and add / remove vehicles etc 19:14:02 <andythenorth> meh 19:14:06 <andythenorth> easier to explain 19:14:15 <andythenorth> you have trains with 3 red wagons 19:14:21 <andythenorth> now you want 5 blue wagons instead 19:14:25 <andythenorth> auto-replace canât do that 19:14:27 <peter1138> Okay, so consist-based autoreplace, instead of engine/wagon-based autoreplace 19:14:33 <andythenorth> yeah exactly 19:15:04 <peter1138> That might just require replacing autoreplace, rather than group :p 19:15:17 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:15:19 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@76.178.136.186] has quit [Quit: Valete omnes] 19:15:19 <peter1138> Maybe we should autoreplace autoreplace. 19:15:27 <andythenorth> only applies to trains mind 19:15:36 <andythenorth> âconsist managed RVsâ : 19:15:37 <andythenorth> :P 19:15:40 <peter1138> :S 19:16:31 <andythenorth> urgh, if it was done on refit orders, people could do shunting 19:16:37 <andythenorth> what a terrible idea 19:16:41 <peter1138> Haha 19:17:41 <andythenorth> how about do it by writing code in a text window? 19:17:45 <peter1138> Coo, sprite sorter glitches 19:17:47 <andythenorth> then I have to learn regex 19:17:58 * andythenorth has been writing code for nearly 30 years without learning regex 19:17:59 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 19:18:22 <peter1138> (with default graphics, no less) 19:21:18 <Wolf01> also set orders schedule to group instead of every train + share orders 19:21:40 <Wolf01> s/group/consist 19:31:48 *** Alberth [~hat@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd [] 19:35:46 <andythenorth> full FIRS is oddly boring 19:40:23 *** kais58|AFK is now known as kais58___ 19:52:14 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r26983 trunk/src/screenshot.cpp (2014-10-09 19:52:07 UTC) 19:52:15 <DorpsGek> -Fix: Account for max_heightlevel when saving heightmaps. 19:57:46 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r26984 trunk/src/heightmap.cpp (2014-10-09 19:57:40 UTC) 19:57:47 <DorpsGek> -Fix (r26905) [FS#6134]: Heightlevels must be scaled by number of intervals, not by the value of the highest interval. Otherwise the highest interval becomes non-proportionally small. 19:58:38 <frosch123> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/ps5yuueja?/ps5yuueja <- i still have that local modification 19:58:42 <frosch123> no idea whether it is any good 20:00:04 <planetmaker> I think it is. There's frequent confusion still 20:01:12 <planetmaker> but maybe it's time to rename 'advanced settings' in main menu to 'settings' 20:02:25 <peter1138> Bah, custom image drawing on a button is a pain in the arse 20:02:39 <andythenorth> +1 to just âsettings' 20:02:39 <planetmaker> or maybe 'Game settings'. But that conflicts somewhat with game scripts 20:02:40 <peter1138> Have to deal with things like click status... 20:02:57 <andythenorth> âGame settingsâ is tautology 20:03:02 <planetmaker> :) 20:03:04 <andythenorth> peter1138: welcome to my everyday ;) 20:03:08 <andythenorth> mangling javascript :P 20:03:23 <frosch123> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/p4z1lkf68?/p4z1lkf68 <- if any, i would go for plain "Settings" 20:03:37 <peter1138> Adding the widget_data2 is shorter ;( 20:03:43 <frosch123> should we trash the translations for them? 20:03:52 <peter1138> Actually probably not shorter, but much less messy. 20:03:56 <andythenorth> today, write some javascript to mangle off the click handlers on a datepicker, because I canât be arsed to read the library and find out why itâs applying the click handler in the first place 20:04:14 <andythenorth> monkey monkey monkey patch 20:04:47 <planetmaker> hm... I guess that's what we should do. Do it better than I did with the hover time strings :) 20:05:16 <frosch123> also for the categories? 20:05:24 <frosch123> or only for the "advanced"? 20:05:40 <planetmaker> Only for the 'advanced', I think 20:05:50 <frosch123> so do i :) 20:10:52 <Wolf01> 'night 20:10:59 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 20:17:44 <planetmaker> frosch123, what's a good translation of yeti's cargo "PigCow"? :D 20:18:16 <frosch123> hmm, first thought is "Schweinehund" :p 20:18:26 <planetmaker> haha, yeah, was mine, too 20:18:52 <planetmaker> but it actually doesn't fit 20:19:07 <planetmaker> so literal? 20:19:11 <frosch123> how about "Grunzkuh"? 20:19:32 <frosch123> or "Ringelkuh" ? 20:19:49 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@95.76.27.245] has quit [] 20:19:50 <planetmaker> TrÃŒffelkuh ;) 20:19:57 <frosch123> :p 20:20:03 <frosch123> also sounds nice 20:20:21 <planetmaker> worker yard for yeti dudes = arbeitsamt fÃŒr yeti - typen ;) 20:20:27 <planetmaker> so ok, yes :) 20:20:52 <frosch123> s/typen/heinis/ ? 20:21:22 <planetmaker> excellent! 20:22:39 <frosch123> actually, TrÃŒffelkuh is quite awesome 20:25:17 <planetmaker> any idea how to differ translations for Farm and Ranch? 20:25:33 <frosch123> doesn't firs already have that issue? 20:25:49 <planetmaker> maybe, I forgot 20:25:57 <planetmaker> but I think there they don't appear concurrently 20:26:10 <planetmaker> but I'll check, thanks for the reminder 20:26:22 *** Mso150 [~Mso150@80.83.238.53] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:27:23 <frosch123> "Bauernhof (Ackerbau)", "Bauernhof (Milchviehhaltung)" 20:27:34 <frosch123> somewhat meh 20:27:41 <planetmaker> yup :) 20:27:43 <planetmaker> meh 20:28:17 <frosch123> i would go for "Bauernhof" and "Viehhaltung" 20:28:23 <frosch123> or "Viehbetrieb" 20:28:28 <frosch123> actually "Viehzucht" 20:28:38 <frosch123> "Bauernhof" and "Viehzucht" 20:28:50 <planetmaker> well. yeti has all three: Farm, Ranch, and Animal Farm 20:29:12 <frosch123> hmm, what's the difference between ranch and animal farm? 20:30:27 <frosch123> chart says: cowpig, grain, fruit 20:30:37 <frosch123> but they do not quite match with the names you listed 20:31:06 <planetmaker> hm, no, actually.. there's Grain Farm, Animal Farm and Plantation. And then there's the associated station names 20:31:08 <planetmaker> I mixed that up 20:31:38 <planetmaker> the station names are Ranch, Farm, Plantation 20:31:43 <frosch123> grain -> Bauernhof, pigcow -> Viehzucht, fruit -> Plantage 20:32:03 <frosch123> ^^ for industry names 20:32:34 <planetmaker> yup 20:32:54 <frosch123> station names: grain -> Feld, fruit -> Orangerie, pigcow -> Streichelzoo 20:33:06 <planetmaker> lool. That's good 20:34:25 <planetmaker> the dudes working in that animal farm will also go totally wtf when there come hordes of tourists trying to fondle their animals ;) 20:34:33 <frosch123> it feels easier to translate yeti, than a serious set 20:34:41 <planetmaker> it totally does, yes 20:37:50 <andythenorth> bed 20:37:52 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has left #openttd [] 20:38:55 *** Yotson [~Yotson@2001:980:6ac8:1:e5bf:3204:9825:ca65] has quit [Quit: .] 20:40:42 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r26985 trunk/src/lang/english.txt (2014-10-09 20:40:36 UTC) 20:40:43 <DorpsGek> -Change: Make settings categories more descriptive. 20:57:24 *** MNIM [~MNIM@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 20:57:32 <MNIM> Hullo! 20:57:39 <MNIM> long time since i've last been here. 21:00:27 *** SHOTbyGUN [shotbygun@213-186-253-83.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:01:23 <peter1138> Meh, these icons are pissing me off 21:03:24 <MNIM> Hmmmmmh. 21:03:36 <Eddi|zuHause> this guy may become a great source of fun over the next years :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wWNVlEA_nk [german] 21:06:00 <planetmaker> outch 21:06:26 <MNIM> Eddi|zuHause: synopsis for those for whom german is the fourth language? 21:06:57 <planetmaker> I'm sure there is a translation into every European language available :) 21:06:57 <Eddi|zuHause> basically the gist of the video: MEP of the german satire party "THE PARTY" asks the hungarian (right-wing) candidate for commissioner for education, whether "Mein Kamp" becomes mandatory reading in schools 21:07:03 <__ln__> MNIM: they speak very clearly 21:07:17 <Eddi|zuHause> and the answer is basically "some of my best friends are jewish" 21:07:38 <Eddi|zuHause> *mein kampf 21:08:29 <MNIM> that they do. Still, it takes a lot of effort for me to understand spoken german. 21:09:10 <Eddi|zuHause> MNIM: being a european parliament session, there is probably a translation in every language 21:09:18 <Eddi|zuHause> just not on youtube 21:09:32 <MNIM> haven't used it in a long while. 21:09:53 <MNIM> ...not significantly since high school, really. ^.^; 21:10:21 <Eddi|zuHause> sure, that's the same for me with french and spanish 21:10:57 <Eddi|zuHause> and probably 99% of all people who ever learned a language other than their native language and english 21:11:16 <MNIM> I've been taught dutch, english, french, latin, spanish and german. 21:11:24 <MNIM> obviously i forgot a bit. :P 21:12:40 <MNIM> I can still read most of them fairly well, though. fairly proud of that. :) 21:13:19 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, reading is obviously easier. especially when they are in the same language family 21:13:25 *** luaduck is now known as luaduck_zzz 21:13:35 <MNIM> Only English remained, and obviously Dutch. 21:14:08 <MNIM> Anyway, question. How does leg profit work in feeder systems? 21:14:39 <Eddi|zuHause> MNIM: basically it guesses a number, which will be accounted for vehicle profit, but not for your bank account 21:15:04 <Eddi|zuHause> the final delivery will be calculated from beginning to end, which will be awarded to your bank account as if there were no transfers 21:15:26 <Eddi|zuHause> then all the transfer credit is deducted, and the remainder awarded as profit for the last vehicle (may be negative) 21:15:56 <MNIM> I'm running a Cargodist+2CCtrains(NML) game with lots of feeder chains, and i can't figure out why those trains keep running at 200% loss. 21:16:36 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r26986 /trunk/src (62 files in 3 dirs) (2014-10-09 21:16:29 UTC) 21:16:37 <DorpsGek> -Change: Rename 'Advanced Settings' to just 'Settings'. 21:16:42 <Eddi|zuHause> the leg profit is calculated as if it were a direct route, and multiplied with an arbitrary factor, which you can set in the advanced settings 21:17:33 <Eddi|zuHause> loss at the end is usually either that some intermediate station "overshot" the distance, and the last leg goes partially backwards, or that the last vehicle is slower than the intermediate ones 21:18:27 <MNIM> well, the last legs (small cargo trams that release cargo to industries at a controlled rate) usually runs at a profit. 21:18:42 <MNIM> it's the trains in the middle leg that lose money. 21:19:16 <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds unlikely 21:19:16 <MNIM> heck, even passenger trains, that don't use any kind of feeding chains, run at a loss 21:19:23 <Eddi|zuHause> unless you use "unload" orders 21:19:36 <Eddi|zuHause> or it's the inflation 21:20:00 <MNIM> which they never did before for me in 2CC+cargodist 21:21:10 <MNIM> It's only the trains which run at a loss, so it makes me suspect 2CC 21:21:27 <MNIM> running 2CC trains in NML 1.0-beta 4 21:24:20 <Eddi|zuHause> either the costs are not balanced, or you flipped some "increase the costs" switch 21:29:16 *** TomyLobo [~foo@91.65.115.103] has quit [Quit: Standby mode...] 21:33:49 <MNIM> yeah, that was my suspicion, except for the fact that that particular grf seems to have its parameters disabled. 21:33:50 <MNIM> http://imgur.com/MwrCmVu 21:34:28 <planetmaker> they are not disabled. Generally ingame you cannot change grf config 21:34:44 <planetmaker> it's a thing you need to configure prior to starting the map 21:34:51 <MNIM> oh. wait. i forgot that's disabled by default. 21:35:43 <MNIM> still, all running costs are set to default. :/ 21:37:51 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:38:32 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 21:39:30 *** luaduck_zzz is now known as luaduck 21:43:24 <Eddi|zuHause> it could also be interference with another grf (basecosts) 21:43:34 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@76.178.136.186] has joined #openttd 21:44:00 <Supercheese> Poor settings, no longer advanced... 21:44:43 <peter1138> Hmm 21:45:04 <Eddi|zuHause> reminds me of "ppor pluto" 21:50:10 <planetmaker> http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs17/f/2008/041/b/b/bb82467f22449f9b.jpg <-- poor poor :) 21:51:49 <MNIM> no basecost grfs of any kind. oh well. set scenario_developer true and halved the 2cc train running costs. 21:53:37 *** gelignite [~gelignite@i528C36AE.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: http://bit.ly/nkczDT] 21:55:33 <frosch123> night 21:55:37 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-5f7415d9.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 21:55:40 <peter1138> these icon things are annoying 21:55:50 <peter1138> they have offsets to centre the sprites 21:56:10 <peter1138> (which are scaled) 21:56:22 <peter1138> and offsets in the code to pad the buttons 21:56:25 <peter1138> (which are not scaled) 21:56:31 <peter1138> add together and it all goes wrong 22:03:01 *** Extrems [borgs@modemcable204.141-177-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd 22:04:45 <MNIM> yea. just halving the running costs makes the trains run even, and all the others ran a profit already. 22:16:10 *** heffer [felix@hyperion.fk.cx] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:16:39 *** heffer [felix@hyperion.fk.cx] has joined #openttd 22:16:49 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18989.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:22:10 *** heffer [felix@hyperion.fk.cx] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:22:37 *** heffer [felix@hyperion.fk.cx] has joined #openttd 22:30:10 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 22:44:32 *** KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@pool-72-94-147-76.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:44:44 *** KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@pool-72-94-147-76.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 22:56:29 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Quit: There's a real world out here!] 23:08:25 *** funnel [~funnel@0001c7d4.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:08:42 *** funnel [~funnel@0001c7d4.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 23:09:24 <Eddi|zuHause> anyone remind me of the reason why the title game is loaded twice? 23:21:44 *** tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@D97BA869.cm-3-4c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 23:23:48 *** funnel [~funnel@0001c7d4.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:24:05 *** funnel [~funnel@0001c7d4.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 23:26:45 *** tycoondemon2 [~ashnohoe@D97BA869.cm-3-4c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:40:49 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:48:35 *** Pikka [~Octomom@d58-106-19-186.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 23:48:44 <Pikka> and did those feet 23:49:42 <peter1138> dance magic dance 23:50:02 <Pikka> exactly 23:50:37 <Pikka> zbase has built-in 2x gui, innit 23:50:47 <Pikka> I guess that means I'm FORCED to make my own base set :/ 23:51:52 <peter1138> i think planetmaker mentioned removing that 23:56:28 <peter1138> i lost my pedal :( 23:57:17 <peter1138> found it :D 23:57:35 <Pikka> huzzah