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00:12:12 *** Biolunar [Biolunar@x5d820ea3.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 00:25:09 *** rahtgaz [~rahtgaz@00021442.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:25:36 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19C53.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:45:12 *** gelignite [~gelignite@f049232178.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: http://bit.ly/1kso8Ta] 00:52:17 *** rahtgaz [~rahtgaz@00021442.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 01:04:12 *** Biolunar [Biolunar@x5d820ea3.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:12:14 *** Hiddenfunstuff [~Geth@y32.ip1.anvianet.fi] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- The alternative IRC client] 01:20:20 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~farci@i59F6BD6C.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 01:26:17 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~farci@i59F6CB3F.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:30:52 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 01:32:12 <Wolf01> 'night 01:32:16 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 01:56:05 *** Rejf [rejf@nintendos.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:57:01 *** Rejf [rejf@nintendos.pl] has joined #openttd 02:24:32 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye] 02:42:58 *** drac_boy [~oftc-webi@modemcable027.125-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd 02:43:04 <drac_boy> long night but meh :-s heh 02:48:27 * drac_boy wonders if flygon wants a tumbleweed :P 02:52:36 <Flygon> Nature called 02:52:49 <Flygon> Also was distracted by an American in the other network 02:54:03 <drac_boy> heh ok..not sure I want know what "other" is but then :) 02:54:33 <Flygon> It starts with #train 02:55:06 <drac_boy> what you doing atm anyhow? 02:56:20 <Flygon> Trying to find a French speaker 02:56:25 <Flygon> I need two sentences translated 02:56:29 <drac_boy> I see, can't really help you sorry 02:56:43 <Flygon> Not that sort of Canadian? xP 02:56:57 <drac_boy> canadian can be english you silly aussie ;) 02:57:06 <Flygon> I know :P 03:02:06 <drac_boy> btw flygon about gutting..well..it wasn't for same kind of reason but some of the 'smaller' big railroads in usa before used to decide to completely repower (sometimes same traction motors, sometimes even that got replaced too) their road switcher for a bit more hp to deal with the newer freight services 03:03:40 <Flygon> Makes sense 03:04:08 <drac_boy> so you could end up with something like this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baldwin_VO-1000 being replenished with a cummins turbo 6-inline (smaller yet better, strange isn't that sometimes?) 03:04:45 <drac_boy> oh and on a slight related note its a weird thing but a lot of the early diesels that were sold for shunting or branchline duty often really got assigned to mainline trains (whether these had setouts to do enroute or not) 03:05:13 <drac_boy> nothing like seeing a cummins-sounding V1000 doing 80kph with a mixed freight train :) 03:05:22 <drac_boy> VO1000* 03:06:10 <Flygon> That happened here with the Y-Classes... 03:06:23 <Flygon> They were build for little used branchlines (65km/h, 480hpish) 03:06:36 <Flygon> Then as soon as the production run was completed, the branchlines shut down 03:06:41 <Flygon> So they were repurposed for shunting 03:06:53 <Flygon> Then VR tried to find a more economical use for them... 03:06:57 <Flygon> So they reassigned them for freight 03:07:05 <Flygon> Then VR needed more passenger services on the mainlines... 03:07:39 <Flygon> Predictably, the programme to have a 65km/h severely underpowered 25 year old loco hauling peak hour services on the mainlines was underappreciated by the public. 03:11:50 <drac_boy> heh well if "peak hour" mean more than four axle-ac coaches then umm yeah we do indeed have a problem here? :) 03:13:43 <Flygon> Three of them 03:14:00 <Flygon> But... considering the same consists were being hauled by Ns and A-Class locos (2500hp 115km/h...) 03:14:26 <Flygon> Even the T/P-Classes hauling the same sets were far quicker (900-1100hp 100km/h) 03:15:27 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~farci@i59F6BD6C.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:16:43 <drac_boy> flygon btw took me a while to find it but heres one of the so-called mainline-running "switcher" http://mancosbob.rrpicturearchives.net/pictures%5C35290%5Csp_1172_SW8a.jpg 03:17:16 <Flygon> That's a shunter?... 03:17:17 <drac_boy> ex-steam headlights (that explains their big size) aside to light-backed numberboards (a real shunter doesn't need these as the operator towers would rarely be seeing such units) 03:17:23 <Flygon> Looks like a bloody T-Class to me 03:20:57 <drac_boy> well flygon many of these just ran around at like 5-30kph .. some of them did share similar gearings from the geep due to similar trucks tho 03:21:21 * Flygon nod 03:21:26 <drac_boy> but for mainline they were never designed for that (lot worser if its the cab facing forward as theres only one thin sheetmetal between a crash and the engineer's seat) 03:21:28 <Flygon> It just looks extremely oversized for a shunter, is all 03:21:39 <Flygon> Most were designed to be tiny af here 03:22:01 <Flygon> Hence why most tended to have just 40hp 03:22:03 <drac_boy> flygon well its as small as it could be especially as the last 2-3 feet in front is taken up by a shutterable radiator .. and the non-engine part probably need a bit of its own space too 03:22:35 <Flygon> Shutterable radiator? 03:22:38 <drac_boy> the vents-inclusive side door panels probably hints to how small the engine is 03:22:51 <Flygon> I think the smallest here were just air-cooled 03:22:57 <drac_boy> flygon..yeah there were blind-like vertical shutters in front of the radiator ... mainly to avoid running too cold 03:23:10 <Flygon> Riight right, it snows there 03:27:49 <drac_boy> btw flygon took me a while to find a non-black one (which was usually the cheap default) but here http://www.trainspotted.com/phpThumb/phpThumb.php?src=/content/BNSF/34/BNSF-3422-LD-LF-20090111-628.jpg&w=800&h=800&hash=485ae0cbd442944cb6c5a60a70c9e540 if that works 03:28:11 <drac_boy> since engine's off the shutters are completely closed naturally 03:28:26 <drac_boy> otherwise they would be parallel to the sides and you'll be watching the big fan spinning in front of you :) 03:28:54 * Flygon nod 03:28:58 <Flygon> Just a note, man 03:29:02 <Flygon> I gotta do IRL stuff in a few mins x3 03:29:04 <Flygon> Shopping ect 03:29:26 <drac_boy> I'm going sleep soon too so..talk next time ok? 03:29:30 <Flygon> Aye! 03:29:33 <Flygon> See ya again 03:29:35 <drac_boy> and btw I dunno if the aussie ones had same thing but here well... 03:30:20 <drac_boy> the emd FT (and some F3 till they finally automated that) had manual shutters on the sides so you had to have the fireman running back to close them when going into long tunnel .. open them when running hot in open ... close them when train came to a long stop (even in summer) 03:30:35 <drac_boy> but anyway talk about that next time :P have fun shipping ;) 03:31:44 * drac_boy throws some empty shopping bags at flygon? 03:31:44 <drac_boy> :) 03:33:31 *** drac_boy [~oftc-webi@modemcable027.125-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has left #openttd [] 03:34:14 *** [Franklin] [~me@cpe-71-71-39-6.triad.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 03:35:25 *** [Franklin] [~me@cpe-71-71-39-6.triad.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 03:48:15 *** rahtgaz [~rahtgaz@00021442.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: I'll be Bach] 03:59:55 *** SpComb [terom@zapotek.paivola.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:15:07 <Flygon> Back 04:33:33 <sim-al2> T class is basically an Aussie EMD G8 04:34:33 <sim-al2> EMDs no matter the type tended to have very similar lines 04:36:08 <Flygon> sim-al2: Basically? It's practically the same vehicle. 04:36:28 <sim-al2> Different roofs over time though 04:36:30 <Flygon> Though the Aussie ones seem to've lasted longest in commission 04:36:37 <Flygon> And by that I mean, they're still being used 65 years later 04:36:50 <Flygon> I'm half expecting them to continue to be used until they're 100 years old for freight... 04:38:16 <sim-al2> Also the change from 567 to 645 over production life 04:42:32 <sim-al2> It is interesting that all the current Aussie diesel locomotives being built are for mainlines only 05:37:04 <Flygon> Well... 05:37:14 <Flygon> Think of it this way, sim 05:37:27 <Flygon> The need to shunt has been SIGNIFICANTLY lowered as time has gone on 05:37:32 <Flygon> And is only really used for freght 05:37:35 <Flygon> freight* 05:38:01 <Flygon> And it's simply easier and more convenient to use the same sort of locomotives for everything rather than having shunters sitting about 05:38:13 <Flygon> And even then, we have a lot of perfectly functional shunters sitting about 05:38:36 <Flygon> From a Victorian perspective, at least, you have all the 1950s and 60s shunters VR built 05:38:42 <Flygon> And the Y-Classes 05:38:49 <sim-al2> They aren't young though, and unlike the US there's been no major rebuilds for many of them 05:38:51 <Flygon> And the T/P-Class locos are pretty decent shunters 05:38:54 <Flygon> True 05:39:09 <Flygon> Still, it does reflect the fact that it's simply easier for everyone to shunt using mainline locos 05:39:34 <Flygon> I really must say though 05:39:43 <Flygon> I am not entirely familiar with operations outside of Victoria 05:39:55 <sim-al2> True, pure switchers here are pretty much gone, in favor of units that can at least try to do road jobs too 05:39:57 <Flygon> We're kind of a galapagos of Australian rail operations 05:40:35 <sim-al2> Dat QR narrow gauge though 05:40:41 <sim-al2> * and WA 05:41:14 <Flygon> WA's a bit of a mixed bunch 05:41:28 <Flygon> The Pilbura (North-West of the state) uses SG lines 05:41:39 <Flygon> And carry some incredible axle loads along with that 05:41:47 <Flygon> The NG segment is just near where Perth is 05:42:02 <Flygon> The regional that DOES exist going out of Perth is mostly just SG, and tied in with the line to Sydney 05:42:09 <sim-al2> Pliabra is straight up NA heavy haul 05:42:18 <Flygon> Queensland is it's own galapagos network though 05:42:22 <Flygon> Yeah, exactly 05:42:38 <Flygon> I am a bit surprised they did Diesel instead of 50kv electric 05:43:18 <sim-al2> I suppose the lower inital cost was more important, and probably wise given the drop in ore prices recently 05:43:30 <Flygon> Then again 05:43:52 <Flygon> The tropical cyclones and the fact that they built for utterly absurd axle loadings might've simply made way op Diesels more economical 05:44:17 <sim-al2> It's not like you can't ballast an electric locomotive, see the IORE 05:44:35 <Flygon> Oh, no 05:44:36 <sim-al2> Or the South African 50kv heavy haul 05:44:42 <Flygon> It's not for ballasting 05:45:05 <Flygon> It's simply that the wagons are that heavy and there's no harm in making a Diesel loco absurdly heavy too for sheer extra Tim Taylor power xP 05:45:19 <Flygon> Also with 50kv, I was actually thinking of the Najavo line 05:45:44 <sim-al2> Need that starting effort to move trains of that size, especially once the track gets a little dusty/wet 05:46:00 <Flygon> Yeah 05:46:00 <sim-al2> They add ballast to the diesels too 05:46:12 <Flygon> I do note, Victoria had some interesting experiences with this 05:46:21 <Flygon> When we built the 1500vDC line to Traralgon 05:46:32 <Flygon> (Coal Briquette traffic) 05:46:43 <sim-al2> Example: the Santa Fe bought Dash 9 locomotives that weighted 395,000 lbs, while I believe some BNSF coal units were up around 415,000 lbs 05:46:56 <Flygon> We ordered the most powerful electric locomotives possible, that fit inside a 17t/axle limit 05:47:16 <Flygon> This caused a lot of arguments between VR designers and English Electric (whom helped in designing and manufacturing) 05:47:33 <Flygon> EE kept saying "The locomotives don't have enough weight! You'll never stop wheelspinning!" 05:47:44 <Flygon> VR insisted they wanted precisely what they demanded 05:47:47 *** tipsyTina [~tipsy@71-95-46-54.dhcp.rvsd.ca.charter.com] has joined #openttd 05:48:08 <Flygon> Unsurprisingly, the machines tended to wheelslip quite badly with heavier briquette loads... which VR fixed by simply adding a second L-class loco on 05:48:32 <Flygon> Because apperantly the solution to having too much power is to add more power (and traction) xP 05:48:48 <Flygon> They made excellent passenger locos, however 05:49:04 <Flygon> And would actually substitute suburban services if the EMUs sometimes carked it 05:49:12 <sim-al2> Adhesive weight, although I'm sure those trains kept up much better with double the power 05:49:21 <Flygon> So, in that sense, they were so overpowered they could fill in our equivilant of a subway EMU xP 05:49:57 <Flygon> But, yeah. They had very little adhesive weight for the intended traffic, but they worked extremely well otherwise 05:50:12 <Flygon> Just a shame the Geelong electrification never got off the ground (VR ran out of money) 05:50:30 <Flygon> They were the most powerful locomotives in the state until the G-Class came around the late 1970s 05:51:07 <Flygon> And even then, by today's standards 05:51:10 <Flygon> Despite being 60 years old 05:51:17 <Flygon> They're incredibly powerful 05:51:51 * Flygon scratches head 05:52:03 <Flygon> I'm not sure what it was with VR and making incredible machines that couldn't go anywhere... 05:52:14 <Flygon> I mean, you know about the H-Class, right? 05:52:42 <sim-al2> Those did have a specific role in mind though 05:54:04 <Flygon> Yeah 05:54:06 <Flygon> Shame about WWII 05:54:25 <Flygon> But even then... if they were still able to be around proper for the 1950s and standardized 05:54:32 <Flygon> They would've been incredibly useful for traffic to Sydney 05:54:50 <sim-al2> Oh different H class :) 05:55:10 <Flygon> Yeah, I'm talking about the one that was the most powerful locomotive in Australia from 1937ish to 1995 xP 05:55:49 <sim-al2> Although amusingly enough the H-class diesels were limited in routing too 05:56:01 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC66AC9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 05:56:16 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC66BDC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 05:56:52 <Flygon> Oooooooh, you mean the T-Class derivative? 05:57:05 <Flygon> The one with the increased axle loads for shunting reasons? 05:57:28 <sim-al2> Yeah, the steam one had a pretty good axle load too 05:59:08 <Flygon> 'pretty good'? O_o 05:59:18 <Flygon> Mate, it could barely run on any of VR's lines! :D 06:00:48 <sim-al2> I do like how the axle load limits haven't really increased that much 06:05:50 <Flygon> Well... 06:05:53 <Flygon> Unfortunately 06:05:58 <Flygon> The reasons for this aren't good 06:06:03 <Flygon> The track infrastructure here is abysmal 06:06:08 <sim-al2> $$$ :) 06:06:23 <Flygon> Road Lobby Brown Paper Bags 06:07:01 <sim-al2> It's interesting that some of the more recent diesels had to skip AC traction for weight reasons, or suffer from having to limit fuel capacity 06:07:19 <Flygon> Limit fuel capacity?... 06:07:27 <Flygon> What sort of distances are you guys trying to do? 06:07:39 <Flygon> Even our interurban DMUs can go for 3,000km on a single tank 06:08:04 <Flygon> http://www.dccsound.com/Vlocity%20Manor.jpg These ones 06:08:05 <sim-al2> No, that would be your private freight operators, see the TT class with three selectable fuel limits 06:08:48 <sim-al2> As opposed to our mainline diesels with 19000 liter tanks 06:08:53 <Flygon> Hmm... 06:09:03 <Flygon> Alright 06:09:14 <Flygon> Sorry, easy to forget that not everywhere had everything done by a single operator 06:09:32 <Flygon> (VR tended to want every Diesel loco to be able to handle long haul pax. no problemo) 06:10:18 <sim-al2> They do seem to have been able to, the P class is a cool idea if a bit limited 06:10:30 <Flygon> Mm... 06:10:41 <Flygon> The A/P-Class was an experiment, but, particulary with the A 06:10:56 <Flygon> It was cheaper to just order additional N's instead and use the existing B's for freight and pax 06:11:12 <Flygon> There's a photo of a B-Class going through Sunbury in VR livery around 1993 06:11:22 <Flygon> Despite VR having being dissolved 14 years earlier 06:12:03 <Flygon> Finding the phooto 06:12:38 <Flygon> I have no idea where to find the photo 06:13:09 <Flygon> http://vicsig.net/passenger/photos/19930200-b65-pass-sunbury-ig.jpg 1993 06:13:38 <sim-al2> Always a very nice one, surprised they didn't all get the orange though 06:13:40 <Flygon> And it's being used for urban runs... 06:13:52 <Flygon> Nah, the B-Class never got painted V/Line orange 06:13:55 <Flygon> Only the A-Class did 06:14:00 <sim-al2> Not exactly the Spirit of Progress 06:14:21 <Flygon> It's incredible how low VR / V/Line had fallen by the 90s... 06:14:37 <Flygon> That's one loco, a luggage van, a first, and second class carriage (iirc) 06:14:40 <sim-al2> http://www.victorianrailways.net/motive%20power/pics/b84ros.jpg 06:15:16 <Flygon> For comparison, this same town now gets 6 carriage Comeng/Siemens sets frequently. A lot changed in 20 years. 06:15:25 <Flygon> Oh, huh 06:15:31 <Flygon> Okay, so, some Bs did get repainted O_o 06:15:34 <Flygon> I stand corrected 06:15:50 <Flygon> That would've been hell for the drivers 06:15:55 <sim-al2> Found here (https://www.railpage.com.au/f-t11329895-s0-0-asc+v+line+livery.htm), apparently only 3 06:16:05 <Flygon> The reason the A's have the black hoods with matte paint to prevent glare 06:16:32 <sim-al2> I've always wondered about the designers who choose gloss paint and no glare shields... 06:16:46 <Flygon> Yeah 06:17:22 <Flygon> http://vicsig.net/photo/10862 Seriously, these consists are STILL used for purely urban runs... 06:17:29 <Flygon> Rail infrastructure here's just a mess 06:17:44 <Flygon> The only difference is the B being an N or an A instead 06:17:47 <sim-al2> The short hood of most modern diesels seems to be a non-slip surface or something ( https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8d/GE_C44-9W_BNSF_4617.jpg ) 06:18:24 <Flygon> Yeah, that's either matte paint or matte sheet 06:18:44 <sim-al2> I think it's a sheet judging by the raised surface 06:18:50 <Flygon> Most modern locos here don't even have a hood 06:19:07 <Flygon> Hell, VR stopped wanting hoods by the 1970s 06:19:29 <Flygon> http://www.victorianrailways.net/motive%20power/gdiesel/g512ros.jpg This and the New South Welsh equivilant apperantly got called "Flying Bricks" 06:19:42 <Flygon> Fantastic at both Freight and Pax. xP 06:19:50 <sim-al2> Ours really have them for the toilet space and the crash protection 06:20:10 <Flygon> (also that exact photograph reminds me of Mad Max for some reason...) 06:20:25 <Flygon> Heh... that's part of the reason the A's got phased out of long distance here 06:20:28 <Flygon> They lack toilets 06:20:32 <Flygon> The N's have onboard toilets 06:21:12 <sim-al2> The earliest US diesels sometimes had a steam generator in the short hood, not sure that I would put it there... 06:21:13 <Flygon> http://vicsig.net/photo/2323 Bloody hell, what a mishmash... 06:21:34 <sim-al2> lol 06:21:46 <Flygon> An A in Navy Blue livery, a B from when WCR still existed and owned the B, and an S in V/Line Orange for... some reason (???) 06:22:01 <Flygon> All in the same era the VLocity DMUs were being tested 200km/h+... 06:22:01 <sim-al2> Paint costs money 06:22:52 <sim-al2> See the inventory of a US class one railroad, there's still a few units in paint of railroads that stopped existing in the mid 90's... 06:24:02 <Flygon> Dayum 06:24:12 <Flygon> Here, you DO get old locos intentionally painted in outdated liveries 06:24:16 <Flygon> And then leased out 06:24:27 <Flygon> Cue VR B-Classes ending up in VR livery in Brisbane 06:24:55 <sim-al2> Well a few have gone and done that now; apparently people have positive (!?) memories of Penn Central 06:27:17 <Flygon> xP 06:27:47 <Flygon> I'm not sure if a few of the locos will be repainted in WCR in future 06:27:59 <Flygon> These locos have gone through so many owners... 06:28:32 <Flygon> Hell, and this isn't taking into account the geneology of some sets here 06:29:04 <Flygon> I'm half-expecting in 20-30 years for VLocities to be painted in Xplorer/Endeavor and Hunter liveries 06:29:21 <Flygon> Due to being either directly descendant or being brother/sister xP 06:29:28 <sim-al2> Huh, I assumed the old paint schemes were part some of them being essentiallly museum machines 06:29:35 <Flygon> Then again, this might happen in an official capacity anyway... 06:29:41 <Flygon> Well, it's part museum 06:29:43 <Flygon> Part cool 06:29:44 <sim-al2> Especially the B's and S's still rolling around 06:29:54 <Flygon> A few QR locos run on NG lines in Victoria 06:29:57 <Flygon> Painted in VR liery 06:29:59 <Flygon> livery* 06:30:03 <Flygon> They never held that livery 06:30:06 <sim-al2> There's NG in Vic? 06:30:06 <Flygon> But it looks cool 06:30:13 <Flygon> 726mm 06:30:18 <sim-al2> Dammmmmnnnn 06:30:39 <Flygon> 762mm, sorry 06:30:50 <sim-al2> Not even 1067? 06:31:00 <Flygon> Nah, we don't have that 06:31:13 <Flygon> 762mm railways were built by VR for lines determined to be too expensive for 1600mm 06:31:19 <Flygon> Basically 06:31:22 <Flygon> Curve radius. 06:31:36 <Flygon> 1067mm would've been too wide. 06:31:47 <sim-al2> I suppose Queensland built 1067mm because of the hills on the coasts, but the rest of the state seems rather flat... 06:32:03 <Flygon> And 600mm wasn't considered due to the lack of predicent for VR 06:32:10 <Flygon> 762mm is based directly on Indian Railways 06:32:19 <Flygon> Queensland's an interesting point 06:32:26 <Flygon> They build the lines where Brisbane were 06:32:31 <sim-al2> 600mm seems close to "minimum gauge" 06:32:33 <Flygon> Which's on the Northern end of the Great Dividig Range 06:32:52 <Flygon> Or - They built 1067mm initially because they built their capital city into a mountain 06:33:02 <Flygon> Despite the entire rest of the state being plains 06:33:02 <sim-al2> :D 06:33:14 <Flygon> Queensland needs standardization... but nobody will pay for it. 06:33:27 <Flygon> And it'd be an engineering... well 06:33:34 <Flygon> A combination of engineering feat and nightmar 06:33:35 <Flygon> e 06:34:00 <Flygon> VR would be easy to SGize by comparison 06:34:10 <Flygon> The biggest issue for Queensland is, is that their loading gauge is... er 06:34:21 <sim-al2> Pint size? 06:34:27 <Flygon> Let's say that Queensland loading gauge and British loading gauge are buttbuddies 06:34:35 <sim-al2> Oh good 06:34:50 <Flygon> New South Welsh loading gauge is huge by comparison, and sets the standard for the country 06:34:53 <sim-al2> *cue image of interstate double stacks* 06:35:07 <Flygon> Victoria's a tiny bit smaller, but easily worked around 06:35:28 <Flygon> Issue with Interstate Double Decks is that you'd need to build them to the same gauge as Sydney's DD stock... 06:35:37 <Flygon> And that makes building DMUs a nightmare 06:35:43 <Flygon> But locomotives are well on their way out. 06:35:53 <Flygon> And nobody wants to build a 25kv overhead 06:36:26 <sim-al2> I mean the ones that run on the line to Perth, since apparently there's no bridges and they built enormous rolling stock for the runs\ 06:37:00 <sim-al2> https://youtu.be/Nw_O_MXhIcA?t=84 06:37:02 <Flygon> ooh 06:37:10 <Flygon> Yeah, that handles some pretty tall cargo 06:37:15 <Flygon> You could certainly do it 06:38:14 <sim-al2> I read somewhere that those locomotives spend 50%+ time at full power due to the winds 06:38:22 <Flygon> The issue is... 06:38:33 <sim-al2> As opposed to less than 25% for most railways worldwide 06:38:38 <Flygon> Is there a market for that much pax capacity? 06:38:46 <Flygon> Esp. given how easy it is to just make the trains longer 06:39:06 <sim-al2> I was talking about freight, although tall passenger cars make for nice long distance 06:39:49 <sim-al2> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIVfvtVGvHI 06:40:38 <Flygon> OOooh, right 06:40:44 <Flygon> Right right 06:40:53 <Flygon> Sorry, was thinking about pax x.x 06:42:56 <sim-al2> Somehow we have bilevel DMUs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UTZCtpiskk 06:43:06 <sim-al2> (take that Europe) 06:45:27 <sim-al2> Bilevels are somewhat common for commuter operations too, depends on passenger loading and the length of stops desired though 06:55:16 <Flygon> What's the acceleration and top speed like? 06:55:42 <Flygon> (it'd be impossible to make a DD VLocity. The entire platform is designed around absurd acceleration based on Diesel-Hydralic transmisison) 06:56:44 <sim-al2> Hmm, I have no idea. Top speed is probably 80 or 90 mph 06:57:00 <Flygon> Hmm... 06:57:11 <sim-al2> Not exactly a lot of floor space underneath, the company also happened to go bankrupt 06:57:25 <Flygon> It's an acceptable top speed (VLos hit 100mph), but the acceleration would need to be at least 0.8m/s/s 06:57:36 <Flygon> But... that's all irrelevant 06:57:50 <Flygon> Because the loading gauge utterly breaks anything inside Melbourne or Sydney 06:58:07 <sim-al2> Found a brochure that says twin 600hp engines (oh god the fuel burn) 06:58:28 <Flygon> Twin per carriage? 06:58:45 <sim-al2> Yes 06:58:52 <Flygon> Jesus Christ 06:59:01 <Flygon> That's nearly twice the horsepower than per VLo unit... 06:59:05 <Flygon> That's utterly bonkers 06:59:13 <Flygon> How the crap do you fit them????? 06:59:32 <sim-al2> They were 18 feet high, there should be some room 06:59:46 <sim-al2> This claims 0-55 mph in 49 seconds 06:59:53 <Flygon> 18 feet? 07:00:02 <Flygon> Uhm 07:00:06 <Flygon> They're 1.4 meters too tall 07:00:06 <sim-al2> 5.5m 07:00:13 <sim-al2> Yeah, I know 07:00:20 <Flygon> Sydney's EMUs barely scrape inside the loading gauge, and they're around 4.4m 07:00:44 <Flygon> Melbourne would limit you to 4.2mish 07:00:56 <Flygon> But, yeah 07:01:04 <Flygon> I'm very very surprised USA lacks more DDs 07:01:12 <Flygon> Though, I can think of one big reason stopping Sydney-style services 07:01:19 <sim-al2> I'm suspicious of this brochure though, because it claims EMU-type performance 07:01:23 <Flygon> Your platforms are, frankly. Too low. 07:01:30 <sim-al2> ??? 07:01:37 <Flygon> Sydney only works because you get THREE decks, not two 07:02:01 <sim-al2> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/50/Lakeshore_West_GO_Train_Westbound.jpg 07:02:02 <Flygon> The passengers board what's effectively the second floor of the EMU, and from there goes to either the first (bottom) or third (top) 07:02:19 <Flygon> This means passenger flow can go through quickly. Almost as easily as a standard Melbourne set. 07:02:37 <Flygon> But the USA/Europe, with the near-ground level platforms 07:02:41 <Flygon> Makes that solution impossible 07:02:46 <sim-al2> http://us.bombardier.com/us/library/images/BT-PR-20100901_NJT_Multilevel-HR.jpg 07:02:57 <sim-al2> We have high level you know 07:03:01 <Flygon> Yes, to unboard from the Lakeshore train from the top floor 07:03:09 <Flygon> You need to go down two sets of stairs 07:03:20 <Flygon> New Jersey is an exemption to the rule I've seen in the USA 07:03:33 <Flygon> Though, as a personal note 07:03:43 <Flygon> I observe that their doors are about half as wide as they should be 07:04:04 <sim-al2> It's a commuter operation, not a subway 07:04:06 *** NGC3982 [~hawking@h215n4-vj-d3.ias.bredband.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:04:25 <Flygon> I know what you're saying, but there's a very big cultural drift here 07:04:38 <Flygon> EVERY single passenger platform for almost every railway company in Australia 07:04:46 <Flygon> Is raised fairly high off the ground 07:04:59 <Flygon> The only low platform service to come to mind are the Tramways 07:05:22 <Flygon> Even on remote branchlines we built this way 07:05:32 <Flygon> But USA and Europe didn't build this way to save money 07:05:43 <Flygon> And time, too 07:05:46 <Flygon> Faster construction 07:06:16 <sim-al2> It also allows larger cars, which improved everything else 07:06:26 <Flygon> Larger??... 07:06:31 <Flygon> Howso? 07:07:05 <Flygon> I would have thought that having passengers load from ground level would reduce the amount of space available, and cause problems trying to engineer more complex equipment 07:07:23 <Flygon> Or - You'd have far less room underfloor inside each carriage/unit to stuff equipment 07:07:27 <sim-al2> Cars aren't restricted by 19th century building standards, see Britain's problems 07:07:49 <Flygon> We built the way we did BECAUSE the existing standards in the UK were outdated 07:07:54 <Flygon> We built in the 1850s. 07:08:05 <Flygon> The UK's stuuuuffed xD 07:09:27 <sim-al2> The commuter operations here should be compared to something like V/Line's suburban ops, Sydney's electrics are very different from most thing running here 07:09:57 <Flygon> uuuh.... 07:10:09 <Flygon> V/Line's suburban operations run to the exact same standards as Metro's here 07:10:23 <Flygon> Geelong even gets trains every 6-12 minutes at peak hour 07:11:25 <sim-al2> Ok, our government in it's infinite wisdom dumped all the post-war money into highways, leaving us permantly stuck with we can be scraped together 07:11:47 <Flygon> Yeah 07:12:00 <Flygon> I'm not saying you guys wouldn't build to a higher standard if you could 07:12:03 <Flygon> Just that nobody's got money 07:12:09 <Flygon> The exact same thing happened here, trust me 07:12:34 <Flygon> We just got lucky because 1860s-1890s Victoria was practically the richest part of the entire British empire 07:12:51 <Flygon> Then we crashed the entire British empire economically because of a housing speculation bubble. 07:13:11 <Flygon> This might have convinced the British to let go of Australia without fighting 07:13:11 <Flygon> xP 07:14:44 <Flygon> Not saying that the same solution would have worked for the USA, mind :P 07:15:07 <sim-al2> At this point low platforms are basically required out west anyway, as the cars are built for low level anyway 07:15:39 <Flygon> Mm... 07:15:42 <Flygon> It's systematic 07:16:02 <Flygon> And a conversion programme would result in decades of isolates happening as lines are converted 07:16:09 <Flygon> And probably end up like the state of SG in Victoria 07:16:17 <sim-al2> Level boarding is much more important, and high platforms don't guarentee it anyway 07:16:45 <Flygon> Level boarding? 07:17:02 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd 07:17:05 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 07:17:23 <sim-al2> No steps 07:17:36 <Flygon> Ahh 07:17:44 <sim-al2> See page 9 here ( http://www.apta.com/mc/rail/previous/2012/presentations/Presentations/Nelson-D-Rebalancing-Commuter-Rail-Level-Boarding.pdf ) 07:18:53 <Flygon> Gaps here are a pretty big problem for some stations 07:18:54 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has joined #openttd 07:19:30 <sim-al2> Page 27 too 07:25:39 <Flygon> Gauntlet tracks seems a bit odd... 07:25:45 <Flygon> Most freight stuff is same width as pax here 07:26:05 <sim-al2> Most passenger cars are narrow for full nation wide gauge compliance 07:26:31 <sim-al2> Some areas limit the movement of the widest freight cars 07:27:17 *** NGC3982 [~hawking@h215n4-vj-d3.ias.bredband.telia.com] has joined #openttd 07:27:32 <Flygon> You... what 07:27:50 <Flygon> You have a MAXIMUM width legally allowable for any passenger car?? 07:28:14 <sim-al2> Um no, it's AAR Plate C loading gauge that is almost universal 07:28:41 <sim-al2> There are some Plate F cars running around that are wider 07:28:51 <Flygon> Oh O_o 07:29:01 <Flygon> Here, whatever just runs... er 07:29:05 <Flygon> Wherever it can fit 07:29:17 <sim-al2> That's what loading gauge means 07:29:29 <Flygon> Yeah 07:41:57 *** DDR [~David@S0106602ad0773a2e.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:42:33 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19D0C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 08:36:39 *** SpComb [terom@zapotek.paivola.fi] has joined #openttd 08:51:03 <Alberth> /me considers renaming the channel to #train-discussions :) 08:55:37 <__ln___> go ahead 08:56:28 <Flygon> OpenTTD is pretty much the most 'powerful' train sim on the market that isn't expensive or taxing 09:00:26 *** Biolunar [Biolunar@x5d82006e.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 09:11:20 <peter1138> nor is it a train sim, but hey 09:11:52 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 09:11:55 <andythenorth> moin 09:12:12 <Flygon> peter1138: It's secondary function can be powerful! 09:12:33 <Alberth> train sim would involve physics of friction of the wheels, and moving masses of the engine and wagons and its cargo, imho 09:13:05 <Alberth> moin andy 09:13:54 <Alberth> not to mention time schedules to arrive at stations for getting all the pax home in time 09:14:41 <Flygon> Alberth: Fine. Train NETWORK sim. xP 09:15:06 <Flygon> It can't be imposssssssible to capture some elements listed tho xP 09:15:37 <Flygon> But nobody seems to like my "Perhaps we should consider the fact that Diesel-Hydralic DMUs don't have a 'standard' acceleration curve" idea xP 09:16:13 <Alberth> tycoon don't handle such small details :) 09:16:43 <Flygon> It isn't possible for a NewGRF to handle this? 09:16:45 <andythenorth> just dibble the TE a bit :P 09:18:04 <andythenorth> for a while, I wanted a way to set the ratio of the planetary gears in logging truck axles in HEQS 09:18:22 <andythenorth> now I have adjusted my concerns, to things that a worth caring about :P 09:18:24 <Alberth> I have no idea where the NewGRF limits are, imho they are too far anyway :p 09:18:31 <andythenorth> like âhow do I get seafood into this economyâ :P 09:18:55 <Alberth> make a sea-based economy? :) 09:19:23 <andythenorth> crabs 09:19:24 <andythenorth> lobsters 09:19:33 <andythenorth> tuna 09:19:38 <Alberth> oysters 09:20:02 <Alberth> plastic :p 09:20:10 <andythenorth> deliver bait, get fish 09:20:13 <Flygon> bogans on jetskis 09:20:40 <andythenorth> deliver growth hormone, get farmed salmon 09:21:08 <Alberth> "fish supplies" 09:21:48 <andythenorth> fishing vessel construction yard -> requires nets, steel, diesel 09:22:53 <Alberth> fish auction 09:23:05 <Flygon> fish action 09:32:55 <peter1138> http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Commodities < only cargo types you ned 09:32:58 <peter1138> +e 09:34:17 <andythenorth> looks good to me 09:47:48 <andythenorth> I need more input / output cargos per industry :P 09:48:11 <andythenorth> ha ha, I could muck about with tile acceptance, but that is ugly 09:57:38 *** funkypudi [~oftc-webi@dhcp-192-245-126.in2cable.com] has joined #openttd 09:57:44 *** liq3 [liq3@CPE-120-148-51-74.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has quit [] 09:58:07 <funkypudi> any admin moderator helper here to help? 09:58:25 *** funkypudi [~oftc-webi@dhcp-192-245-126.in2cable.com] has quit [] 09:59:53 *** funkypudi [~oftc-webi@dhcp-192-245-126.in2cable.com] has joined #openttd 10:00:19 *** funkypudi [~oftc-webi@dhcp-192-245-126.in2cable.com] has quit [] 10:07:56 <andythenorth> so I add both âtyresâ cargo and âvehicle partsâ cargo 10:08:09 <andythenorth> âbut andythenorth tyres ARE vehicle parts, no?" 10:08:09 <andythenorth> :P 10:08:18 <andythenorth> the chains are fricking weird otherwise 10:20:58 *** kais58_ is now known as kais58|AFK 10:23:47 *** liq3 [liq3@CPE-120-148-51-74.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 10:27:32 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:04:19 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host105-62-dynamic.252-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 11:04:25 <Wolf01> o/ 11:07:33 *** Wormnest [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 11:10:32 *** liq3 [liq3@CPE-120-148-51-74.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has quit [] 11:10:59 *** Hiddenfunstuff [~Geth@y32.ip1.anvianet.fi] has joined #openttd 11:11:02 *** Arveen [~Arveen@ip-95-223-75-47.hsi16.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #openttd 11:21:41 *** roidal [~roland@194-152-172-134.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd 11:25:31 <Alberth> moin 11:30:03 *** Arveen [~Arveen@ip-95-223-75-47.hsi16.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 11:31:30 *** Progman_ [~progman@p57A18C86.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 11:36:37 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19D0C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:36:51 *** Progman_ is now known as Progman 11:39:58 <TrueBrain> hi Alberth! Don't know if frosch already told you, but I install eints for OpenTTD. Looks really good, you guys did a very nice job on that. Even more so on documentation etc :D 11:40:09 <TrueBrain> The only issue is that import takes several minutes .. frosch indicated that should be seconds :P 11:40:20 <TrueBrain> It also runs very well on PyPy3 btw ;) (and a lot faster, ofc :D) 11:40:49 <Alberth> hi TB 11:40:54 <Alberth> good to hear 11:41:13 <Alberth> pypy3 is a jit compiler, I take it? 11:41:17 <TrueBrain> yes :D 11:42:37 <Alberth> import is just startup, or is it update of strings after a commit? 11:42:47 <TrueBrain> the latter seems fine 11:43:03 <TrueBrain> just the import (at startup & commit) takes ~6 minutes 11:43:12 <Alberth> and as for documentation, sorry, I document everything :p 11:43:15 <TrueBrain> not a real issue, tbh, WT3 can be slower if all languages are touched :D 11:43:28 <TrueBrain> hehe; no clue why you are sorry :P 11:43:39 <Alberth> :D 11:43:54 <TrueBrain> but we do have to pimp the script doing the updating, to only update the languages that are changed, basically ;) 11:44:34 <Alberth> ah right, smarter updating would be a nice first step :) 11:44:59 <TrueBrain> it still leaves the question for me, why on frosch his VM it was seconds, and for me it is minutes .. so something is a bit wonky 11:45:07 *** oooze81 [~3oooze81@122-62-127-3.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #openttd 11:45:29 <TrueBrain> but I had a Q for you: when you create a project that already exists, can I get an error code from the script entry point? Is that easily possible? 11:45:34 <TrueBrain> now it is just silently ignored :) 11:46:09 <TrueBrain> hmm ... or is there an entry to check if a project already exists .. hmm .. I didnt check that 11:46:11 <Alberth> no idea 11:47:03 <Alberth> but euhm, "create project"? there is only one project, no? 11:47:10 <TrueBrain> yup 11:47:20 <TrueBrain> basically, I am putting all of openttd.org configuration in Ansible 11:47:26 <TrueBrain> including deployment of eints 11:47:37 <TrueBrain> so I am trying to find a clean way to know if eints is already installed yes/no :) 11:48:57 <Alberth> make an deb, install, ask apt-cache or so? :p 11:49:09 <TrueBrain> hehe; that would work too :D 11:49:18 <TrueBrain> owh well, I will work something out :) 11:50:51 *** eM [~M@ip4da0d6bd.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #openttd 11:51:19 <TrueBrain> anyway, still a bit of work to do before we can use it, but I am really happy it works as clean as it does :) 11:52:02 <Alberth> good to hear, and thanks for the update 11:52:36 <Alberth> if you want something done, let me know 11:53:01 <TrueBrain> the LDAP stuff needs a bit of fixing up, but I think that was frosch's work, not? 11:53:13 <Alberth> yep, completely 11:53:34 <TrueBrain> and I have some minor things ... like removing the "new project" button; but that are minor details :) 11:54:02 <Alberth> quite :) 11:55:33 <TrueBrain> now I need someone to come up with a replacement for BaNaNaS :D 11:55:34 <TrueBrain> hehe 11:56:30 <Alberth> we'd need a design first 11:56:56 <Alberth> the actual coding is perhaps not that difficult, I think 11:57:41 <TrueBrain> yeah; indeed :) 11:58:32 <Wolf01> gah, windows updates needs reboot 11:58:36 <Wolf01> bbl 11:58:40 <Alberth> good luck 11:58:40 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 11:58:50 <Alberth> hmm, not fast enough :( 12:00:52 *** gelignite [~gelignite@f049236116.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 12:08:14 *** oooze81 [~3oooze81@122-62-127-3.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:14:17 *** Taco [~kitty@2407:500::2:981d:d5e9] has joined #openttd 12:18:43 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host105-62-dynamic.252-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 12:18:58 <Alberth> wb to the updated world 12:19:12 <Wolf01> eh, the update failed to install :| 12:19:34 <Wolf01> btw, lunch time 12:19:58 <Alberth> :( for update, \o/ for lunch 12:30:42 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:31:18 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 12:33:07 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~farci@i59F6BD6C.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 12:41:46 *** oooze81 [~3oooze81@122-62-127-3.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #openttd 12:44:27 *** oooze81 [~3oooze81@122-62-127-3.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [] 12:45:20 *** Biolunar [Biolunar@x5d82006e.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: tÃŒdelÃŒ!] 13:51:58 *** mykoserocin [~mykoseroc@000214a6.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 13:54:48 <mykoserocin> hello 13:54:48 <mykoserocin> reading this: https://wiki.openttd.org/Network_Protocol#Endian 13:55:02 <mykoserocin> "The network protocol is 100% endian safe. We made that possible by creating our own endian, sort to speak. We do not send packets, but we send bytes over the network. For example, when we want to send a int64, we send first byte 1, then byte 2, and so on. So the byte order is ALWAYS 1 2 3 4." 13:55:10 <mykoserocin> isn't this the same as little-endian? 13:58:46 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 13:58:49 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 14:01:33 <Alberth> no idea what "byte 1" means here 14:02:05 <Alberth> the point is however that the same order is used both at big-endian and little-endian machines, so they can talk to each other 14:03:44 <__ln___> wtf, who wrote that statement in the wiki? 14:04:04 <Rubidium> in that case byte 1 is bits 0..7, i.e. GB(..., 0, 8), byte 2 is bits 8..15, i.e. GB(..., 8, 8) etc. 14:04:32 <__ln___> it is basically saying "the protocol is 100% endian safe because we ignore the existence of endianness" 14:05:46 <mykoserocin> https://github.com/lucaspiller/OpenTTD/blob/master/src/network/core/packet.h#L36 14:05:52 <mykoserocin> * - all > 1 byte integral values are written in little endian, 14:05:52 <mykoserocin> * unless specified otherwise. 14:08:35 <__ln___> TrueBrain: why would the 2004 revision of you write something like that: https://wiki.openttd.org/?title=Network_Protocol&diff=1038&oldid=1037 14:09:32 <Alberth> what are you aiming to do? 14:11:12 <mykoserocin> me? just studying the protocol. 14:11:29 <__ln___> i'm aiming to go out for a walk. 14:13:55 *** guru3 [~guru3@000128ea.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 14:18:46 <Alberth> ok, maybe you wanted to connect things through the protocol, but there are better ways to do that 14:19:27 <mykoserocin> Alberth: what do you mean? 14:20:14 <Alberth> there is an admin port for monitoring games at the server 14:20:41 <Alberth> which works way better than trying to decode the game protocol itself 14:22:15 <TrueBrain> __ln__: because clearly the me of 2004 never heard of network byte order 14:22:24 <TrueBrain> it seems we reinvented a very existing wheel ;) 14:23:27 <TrueBrain> (well, I hope it is only described in the wiki as if it is something new; I hope the code uses exisitng OS wrappers for it :P) 14:30:51 <Rubidium> yes, the wrappers are very open source ;) 14:33:08 <Alberth> :) 14:35:26 *** rahtgaz [~rahtgaz@00021442.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 14:36:32 *** drac_boy [~oftc-webi@modemcable027.125-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd 14:36:36 <drac_boy> hi 14:36:50 * drac_boy wonders if flygon got the empty bags from me :) 14:44:55 <drac_boy> hmm hey sim-a12 I think we're missing some usa rail flags :P 14:44:58 <drac_boy> heh 15:57:37 *** kais58|AFK is now known as kais58_ 16:30:40 *** drac_boy [~oftc-webi@modemcable027.125-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has left #openttd [] 17:11:39 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 17:16:46 *** tipsyTina [~tipsy@71-95-46-54.dhcp.rvsd.ca.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:28:42 *** roidal_ [~roland@193-154-142-115.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd 17:35:30 *** roidal [~roland@194-152-172-134.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:37:38 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 17:46:24 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-162.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 18:26:01 *** supermop [~supermop@pool-108-6-12-46.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 18:27:32 *** Sirenia [~sirenia@93.186.164.51] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:30:46 *** rahtgaz [~rahtgaz@00021442.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:32:39 *** rahtgaz [~rahtgaz@00021442.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 18:37:54 <sim-al2> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7wcimMOjzg 18:45:18 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27454 trunk/src/lang/korean.txt (2015-11-22 19:45:10 +0100 ) 18:45:19 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 18:45:20 <DorpsGek> korean - 4 changes by telk5093 18:48:36 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 19:12:32 <Rubidium> sim-al2: do trains really need to go that slow on the bridge? 19:16:05 <sim-al2> I think it's because those units are still in testing, and that bridge was used for delivery to the line 19:16:31 <Rubidium> there is a sign saying 10, which might mean 10 mph 19:16:49 <Rubidium> (although here a sign with 10 means 100 km/h) 19:17:14 <sim-al2> 10mph, probably due to the age of the bridge; it's really just a freight route 19:19:42 *** supermop [~supermop@pool-108-6-12-46.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:19:59 <sim-al2> Looking at something else, they plan on replacing it with a drawbridge 19:24:09 <sim-al2> Oh wait, this bridge is still there and seems to not be on the line. Another swing bridge was replaced 19:31:36 <andythenorth> is cat 19:32:06 <andythenorth> so am I smoking crack if I split âvehicle partsâ and âtyres' 19:32:08 <andythenorth> ? 19:34:49 <Alberth> if it makes sense from the industry chain pov, I'd say just do it 19:35:05 <Alberth> if people complain, tell them to ignore tyres :) 19:35:25 <andythenorth> I want three inputs to the vehicle factory 19:35:48 <andythenorth> I tried manufacturing supplies, but thatâs weird, because itâs mostly paper, boxes, glasses, tins etc 19:36:03 <andythenorth> I could use chemicals, quite plausibly 19:36:12 <andythenorth> but nearly everything accepts chemicals :P 19:45:18 <Alberth> you could make it 'doors' or 'engines' or so 19:45:20 <andythenorth> I could 19:45:35 <andythenorth> I have dug around, I think chemicals is fine as third cargo 19:45:39 <Alberth> but imho tyres is fine too 19:45:44 <andythenorth> players donât like it, they can play a different thing 19:46:16 <andythenorth> itâs a weird industry, vehicles. The chain is longer than most FIRS chains 19:46:25 <Alberth> \o/ 19:47:00 <andythenorth> this Arctic economy will be quite different to others. There are 2 or 3 very short chains (farm -> food -> town etc). And one very long chain. 19:47:19 * andythenorth needs a GS to test it with :D 19:48:10 <Alberth> haha :) 19:48:40 <andythenorth> hmm 19:48:51 <andythenorth> rubber -> plastics plant (already exists), or 19:49:00 <andythenorth> rubber -> tyre plant (probably quite easy to draw) 19:49:06 <Alberth> I remember someone saying BB was done :p 19:49:36 <Alberth> no plastic wheels? :) 19:49:45 <andythenorth> tyre plant can be added 19:49:51 <andythenorth> BB is âdoneâ, except the bugs :P 19:50:23 <Alberth> :D 19:51:38 <andythenorth> ho nordic tyre plant http://www.nordiccartyres.com/media/wysiwyg/MIsc-Photos/Nokian_Tyres_factory_resized.jpg 19:52:33 <sim-al2> Or like this: 19:52:33 <sim-al2> [13:48] <andythenorth> rubber -> plastics plant (already exists), or 19:52:35 <sim-al2> [13:48] <andythenorth> rubber -> plastics plant (already exists), or 19:52:41 <sim-al2> https://www.cardcow.com/images/set353/card00620_fr.jpg 19:52:47 <sim-al2> Wow sorry 19:53:18 <andythenorth> also that one 19:53:27 <andythenorth> âtyre plantâ or âtyre factoryâ ? 19:53:48 <Alberth> large buildings for such small tyres :) 19:54:11 <sim-al2> It's a complicated product though 19:54:36 <andythenorth> the worldâs biggest tyre maker is in Denmark 19:54:43 <andythenorth> it makes very small tyres... 19:55:00 <Rubidium> you mean the one making the largest amount, right? 19:55:13 <Rubidium> not the one making the biggest tyres, or that one as well? 19:55:35 <andythenorth> highest volume 19:58:55 *** frosch123 [~frosch@x4d00914d.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 19:59:44 <andythenorth> quak 20:00:14 <andythenorth> http://cache.lego.com/r/www/r/aboutus/-/media/about%20us/news%20room/2012/06_june/550_guiness%20world%20record.jpg?l.r2=1413637842 20:00:52 <frosch123> hoi 20:01:11 <Alberth> moin 20:01:26 <Wolf01> o/ 20:06:51 <andythenorth> ha, an economy with no manufacturing supplies :) 20:06:58 *** drac_boy [~oftc-webi@modemcable027.125-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd 20:06:59 <andythenorth> but itâs primarily a manufacturing economy 20:07:00 <drac_boy> hi 20:07:04 * andythenorth is pleased by this 20:07:51 <drac_boy> whats the 'this'? heh :) 20:09:37 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 20:10:42 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-162.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:13:49 <andythenorth> hmm 20:14:24 <andythenorth> this economy has Fishing Harbour. Fishing Harbour needs manufacturing supplies (MNSP). No MNSP in this economy. 20:14:34 <andythenorth> 1) change Fishing Harbour only in this economy 20:14:38 <andythenorth> 2) change it for all economies 20:14:48 <andythenorth> 3) have a different destination for Fish cargo? 20:15:53 <Alberth> not 2? 20:16:22 <Alberth> ie it would break many economies, wouldn't it? 20:16:26 <andythenorth> not really break 20:16:33 <andythenorth> just changes the behaviour of that industry 20:16:46 <andythenorth> currently both cargos are needed for max output 20:16:57 <andythenorth> I never bother delivering MNSP to fishing harbours anyway :P 20:17:00 <Alberth> but I'd guess you balanced MN use 20:17:02 <drac_boy> andy oh well I would only do #1 for that specific economy parameter if it was me 20:17:52 <andythenorth> I could swap Fishing Grounds -> Fish -> Fishing Harbour -> Food 20:17:54 <Alberth> send fish to the workers of the tyre factory? :) 20:17:57 <andythenorth> to Fish Farm -> Food 20:18:06 <andythenorth> fish is in every economy, it gets old :P 20:18:23 <drac_boy> not to someone who needs a supply of food without large land impact :) 20:18:29 <drac_boy> heh 20:18:35 <Alberth> yep, a change of the chain would be useful 20:18:47 <andythenorth> canât have Norway without fish, right? 20:18:53 <andythenorth> I could just drop it :P 20:19:09 <drac_boy> andy...or most arctic maps in fact... beside its easier to find fish ground than a rare flat land for farm fields 20:19:19 <drac_boy> just my own comment anyhow 20:19:46 <Alberth> fish farms are often on water too :) 20:20:36 <andythenorth> thatâs my thought 20:20:40 <andythenorth> and not hard to draw 20:26:37 * drac_boy still need to draw a bit more since just a bit before last weekend :-s 20:26:45 <andythenorth> ha ha, this economy has 23 industries, and 8 of them require chemicals 20:27:33 <andythenorth> distorted much? o_O 20:27:49 <andythenorth> frosch123: ^ inverse silicon valley? o_O 20:28:02 <andythenorth> âYour goal is to build 10 industries consuming chemicalsâ 20:29:48 *** DDR [~David@S0106602ad0773a2e.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 20:32:48 <drac_boy> guess that would depend what kind of industries these chemicals are going to. if its eg the paperwork that probably makes sense for it to optionally want a small amount 20:32:58 *** Wormnest_ [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 20:33:02 <Alberth> gn 20:33:07 <andythenorth> bye Alberth 20:33:10 <drac_boy> bye alberth 20:33:12 <andythenorth> maybe itâs printer ink 20:33:17 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd [] 20:35:00 * drac_boy still can't quite get the hang of drawing bigger buildings anyhow :-s (at least not all industries have to be drawn in big size so..no comment) 20:35:46 <andythenorth> draw small buildings, and use lots of them 20:39:48 *** Wormnest [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:40:54 <drac_boy> :p 20:41:28 <andythenorth> drac_boy: thatâs how FIRS does it, mostly http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/industries.html#nitrate_mine 20:41:48 <drac_boy> well for 256x256 map that probably works a bit better too anyway 20:42:16 <drac_boy> ah I see what you really meant now 20:43:25 <andythenorth> there are some big 2x2 tile sprites 20:43:29 <andythenorth> but mostly 1x1 now 20:51:29 <drac_boy> at least (for me anyhow) vertical cylinders seem easier to draw once and shade a few times versus trying to draw a tanker vehicle/wagon every angle .. oh well thats pixels for you after all 20:51:56 <andythenorth> drawing industry is way more fun than drawing vehicles 20:52:04 <andythenorth> only one angle, and the shapes are all very easy 20:52:16 * andythenorth could draw industries all day long 20:52:23 <drac_boy> only thing of course is you need vehicles to actually use the industry with (unless you want to go with something like the pipelines.grf :P 20:52:41 <andythenorth> this is the problem 20:52:45 <andythenorth> also ships, are the worst 20:52:51 <andythenorth> and there zero good ship sets 20:52:54 <andythenorth> * are 20:53:02 <drac_boy> if you're interested in only buildings alone you always could modify your tools to draw the buildings for simcity instead :) 20:53:17 <drac_boy> I still dabble in the Constructor Kit for simcity2000 once in a while just for fun 20:55:23 <drac_boy> online screenshot for anyone else here who might be wondering exactly what it is http://www.myabandonware.com/media/screenshots/s/simcity-2000-urban-renewal-kit-2uz/simcity-2000-urban-renewal-kit_3.gif 20:57:09 <drac_boy> can't recall if any other construction-genre games have user moddable buildings too .. never really did look that much myself (due to having simcity already anyway) 20:58:07 <drac_boy> re ships..humm well...I do like newships.grf (save for sometimes introduction dates being odd) but otherwise yeah I don't think theres really been that much of any improvements past that 20:58:40 <andythenorth> drawing ships is zero fun 20:58:42 <drac_boy> I usually only run a few small passenger ferries aside to the occassional light/medium sized oilrig tankers for most part 20:59:35 <drac_boy> anything else such as a far-reach coal mine I rather run one or two russia planes in daily service :) 21:01:19 <mykoserocin> what is the purpose of the 8-byte arbitrary data in the PACKET_CLIENT_CHAT message? 21:02:18 <mykoserocin> it also gets sent to all the connected clients even if it's not needed 21:02:20 <drac_boy> ip-like field perhaps? (just like an internet packet) 21:02:39 <mykoserocin> drac_boy: care to elaborate? 21:02:40 <drac_boy> I dunno tbh 21:02:57 * drac_boy points to an actual coder somewhere else in the user list instead >>> 21:08:43 <mykoserocin> here's an example packet: 21:08:45 <mykoserocin> 0000 16 00 1c 03 02 02 00 00 00 74 65 73 74 00 fe ed .........test... 21:08:45 <mykoserocin> 0010 fa ce de ad be ef ...... 21:09:13 <Rubidium> what does the documentation say? 21:09:28 <mykoserocin> it says "arbitrary data" 21:09:35 <mykoserocin> https://wiki.openttd.org/OpenTTDDevBlackBook/Network/TCP 21:09:55 <mykoserocin> but the purpose of that data is unclear 21:11:16 <Rubidium> that blackbook is rubbish 21:11:38 <Rubidium> someone once thought it be a good idea to copy the source code comments to wiki 21:11:39 <mykoserocin> well, i assume it might be used for money transfer messages, but why does server replicates it in ordinary chat messages... 21:12:29 <Rubidium> in any case, there are many chat-type messages. In this case "chat-type" means using the chat window to put some message 21:13:01 <Rubidium> so you send the type and based on the type it processes/formats the data differently 21:13:23 <mykoserocin> also here: https://wiki.openttd.org/Network_Protocol#The_protocol PACKET_CLIENT_CHAT does not document this arbitrary data at all... 21:13:36 *** Biolunar [Biolunar@x5d82006e.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 21:14:16 <mykoserocin> Rubidium: "chat-type" â NetworkAction you mean? 21:15:06 <Rubidium> yes, but since you are giving links to obsolete documents saying NetworkAction type does not give any clue to you what it is 21:15:51 <Taede> the wiki also lists 3 unint8's while the black book lists uint8, uint16 and uint32 21:15:52 <mykoserocin> are there any non-obsolete documents except source code? 21:16:23 <andythenorth> unlikely :D 21:16:49 <Rubidium> anyhow, when you send money a "chat" message with GIVE_MONEY type is sent with the name of the company and the amount. Depending on whether "you" were the one sending the money or receiving the money, a different message is shown 21:17:49 <Rubidium> but what basically happens in any case is passing the client name, the "arbitrary" text and "arbitrary" number onto the string formating stack, and then format a string depending on the networkaction (+ some local knowledge) 21:19:26 <Rubidium> http://docs.openttd.org/ has an as up-to-date (well, with a lag of up to 24 hours and a few minutes) documentation as the source code 21:19:47 <Rubidium> although you need to know where to look 21:20:28 <drac_boy> you mean "24 hours give or take"? don't mind me :P 21:20:58 <mykoserocin> Rubidium: i think i've found it: SetDParam(2, data); 21:21:01 <mykoserocin> so this has to do with some home-made string scanner? 21:21:39 <Rubidium> drac_boy: not really, because "give or take" implies it could be less, but the maximum won't be less than 24 hours 21:21:44 <mykoserocin> i wonder why not use snprintf or something similar? 21:21:57 <mykoserocin> colors? 21:22:49 <Rubidium> because snprintf can't be extended 21:23:05 <Rubidium> e.g. we can't add custom formatting for currencies 21:23:34 <Rubidium> anyhow, it's more a gettext-ish thing 21:24:04 <mykoserocin> i see, but is this possible to use va_list (variardic function)? 21:24:43 <Rubidium> in theory one could make that, but in practice it won't be really helpful 21:25:58 <mykoserocin> why? 21:26:00 <Rubidium> because now we can have ifs/cases that set the individual paramters, and with va_list you'd need to either make variables for everything *or* put all the logic into a single line 21:26:11 <mykoserocin> that'd increase readability a lot 21:26:37 *** rahtgaz [~rahtgaz@00021442.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: I'll be Bach] 21:27:28 <Rubidium> how would the following look with variadic functions? http://git.openttd.org/?p=trunk.git;a=blob;f=src/network/network.cpp;h=0bbdd0d06cf8216109ee80956f2e78daac5221b1;hb=HEAD#l362 21:32:10 * andythenorth shudders at variadic functions 21:32:18 <andythenorth> for a while, there was a variadic version of FIRS 21:32:24 <Rubidium> https://wiki.openttd.org/OpenTTDDevBlackBook/Special_strings#Placeholders <- just to give you an idea of the different types of "formatters" OpenTTD's language file contains, which makes its string system vastly more useful than what can be achieved with gettext or snprintf 21:34:46 <Rubidium> although gettext has support for plural, it doesn't seem to have sprouted support for genders yet whereas OpenTTD handles them for about a decade now 21:35:29 <andythenorth> unrelated to openttd, is there anything better than gettext out there? 21:35:36 <andythenorth> itâs considered limiting for translating python web apps :P 21:35:42 <andythenorth> but is the only known game in town 21:36:05 <Rubidium> newgrf? 21:36:18 *** liq3 [liq3@CPE-120-148-51-74.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 21:36:19 <Rubidium> it has a python web app for translating it ;) 21:36:26 <andythenorth> that one cheats :P 21:36:37 <andythenorth> it uses openttd style string handling :P 21:37:10 <mykoserocin> https://git.openttd.org/?p=trunk.git;a=blob;f=src/lang/english.txt;h=0bd430bad0837ecf0d0e6bf118b92ff24b621201;hb=HEAD#l2171 21:37:15 <mykoserocin> wow, that's looks ugly :D 21:37:30 <andythenorth> the python i18n frameworks donât _appear_ to support a default lang, so instead of falling back to english or so, you serve blank strings to end users if the string is missing :P 21:37:47 <mykoserocin> as far as I understand, the parser will use different string, depending on it's stack size? 21:37:48 <andythenorth> which breaks functionality horribly, e.g. <a href=âblahâ></a> :P 21:39:34 <Rubidium> mykoserocin: true, it is ugly... however, imagine a language where the amount of reasons influences the paused verb 21:40:21 <Rubidium> and the only reason there are duplicates is because there are many reasons why the game could be paused that are compounded and only showing one made some users upset 21:40:51 <Rubidium> in this case, the parser will be given a different string (the parser itself doesn't look to stack size) 21:41:30 <andythenorth> bye 21:41:30 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has left #openttd [] 21:43:11 <Rubidium> anyhow... OpenTTD's string system is vastly better suited than printf and gettext for languages that do not conform to the "base languages'" order 21:43:11 <mykoserocin> Rubidium: wouldn't gettext help in that case (amount of reasons influence the verb)? 21:43:35 <mykoserocin> but i see, you were talking about genders 21:43:57 <mykoserocin> are there any examples in the source code i can look for? 21:44:13 <Rubidium> mykoserocin: yes, but you can't then write some regular expression-ish thing to have 1 to 4 "outputs" between brackets 21:44:43 <Rubidium> so either you have to sprintf them after eachother, which might break horribly in some languages that use a different word order 21:44:52 <Rubidium> or you need to do something else weirds 21:45:30 <mykoserocin> printf("Game paused (%s%s%s) 21:45:33 <mykoserocin> whoops 21:46:21 <mykoserocin> printf("Game paused (%s%s)\n", (thing1 ? "thing1, " : ""), (thing2 ? "thing2, " : "")); 21:46:27 <mykoserocin> yeah, that won't work :) 21:46:31 <mykoserocin> because of commas 21:46:37 <mykoserocin> *would not work 21:49:36 <mykoserocin> Rubidium: one could add {STRING_ALL} specifier to the string scanner, so it'd pop all the values and print them comma delimited 21:50:06 <mykoserocin> but that'd clearly violate the string format rule 21:50:11 <Rubidium> https://git.openttd.org/?p=trunk.git;a=blob;f=src/lang/german.txt#l3515 <- genders 21:50:59 <Rubidium> so from 3518 a number of types of vehicles are defined, with the gender in front of it 21:51:47 <glx> french also uses genders (including a fake one for some phrase constructions) 21:51:51 <Rubidium> when the string is constructed, the {G ...} stuff of e.g. line 3517 looks at the "included" strings to get the gender and then choose which of the genders to use 21:54:02 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has quit [] 21:54:34 *** frosch123 [~frosch@x4d00914d.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 21:55:15 <Rubidium> and since you can stack string "inclusion", you can also say that you want the second substring of the first included string... but that's rarely ever used 21:56:33 *** roidal_ [~roland@193-154-142-115.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.3] 21:58:27 <drac_boy> hmm looks like I need to say byebye V100 http://up.picr.de/22424403ni.jpg 21:58:30 <mykoserocin> thanks for the explanation, I wasn't aware of such nuances with some of the languages :) 21:59:20 <Rubidium> oh, this is the simple stuff 21:59:47 <glx> yeah add the cases on top of that ;) 21:59:48 <Rubidium> things start to get interesting with right-to-left languages such a Hebrew 22:00:19 <Rubidium> since their text goes from right-to-left, but not for numbers 22:00:21 <drac_boy> I think it wasn't only hebrew that does that 22:00:31 <glx> arabic too 22:00:53 <drac_boy> right, I knew there was a common second one but just couldn't recall who glx 22:00:55 <drac_boy> thanks 22:01:23 <Rubidium> the next step is Arabic, which is even more fun... because multiple characters influence eachother, so writing 3 characters in "code" (or on your keyboard) can result in one character on the screen 22:01:54 <glx> and the fun is even better when you mix these language with untranslated stuff like vehicle names ;) 22:02:03 *** supermop [~supermop@pool-108-6-12-46.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 22:02:05 <Flygon> Oh man, I submitted art to websites with Arabic Title 22:02:08 <glx> ie LTR inside RTL 22:02:11 <Flygon> I broke, like 22:02:13 <Flygon> A lot of them 22:02:22 <Flygon> Esp. since I also had the title in English 22:02:36 <drac_boy> oh I kinda know what you mean..on slider phone keyboards I sometimes find it funny when typing a different third letter can cause the second letter to get different symbols 22:02:39 <Flygon> And at least one refused to even accept the title as anything but ASCII 22:03:07 <drac_boy> so flygon did you fill up any shopping bags yesterday or what :P 22:03:40 * Flygon gives drac_boy some paper bags to play with 22:04:40 <Rubidium> oh... and then there are things that we don't support, like proper "thousand" grouping for some locales 22:05:13 <Rubidium> like... welcome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_numbering_system 22:05:32 <drac_boy> flygon I take it none? :) 22:05:55 <Flygon> Everything got put into the cupboard? xP 22:07:07 <mykoserocin> Rubidium: how about using LC_MONETARY for this one? 22:08:38 <mykoserocin> here's a random example: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/10042485/how-to-display-currency-in-indian-numbering-format-in-php 22:09:14 <mykoserocin> i'm not sure though if there's any alternative function to PHP's money_format() 22:09:59 <Rubidium> a function that doesn't work on Windows doesn't sound good enough for OpenTTD 22:10:00 <mykoserocin> it seems that ICU can handle this 22:10:17 *** rahtgaz [~rahtgaz@00021442.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 22:10:17 <glx> ICU is the devil ;) 22:10:47 <mykoserocin> does OpenTTD gets compiled with ICU on Windows? 22:10:59 * Rubidium wonders how SI prefixes mess up the indian system 22:11:03 <glx> yes, and building ICU on windows is not fun 22:11:20 <Rubidium> 10,00,000 -> 10,00 k or 1,000 k? 22:11:24 <mykoserocin> glx: it is, but OpenTTD already uses it 22:12:06 <mykoserocin> judging by ./configure --help 22:15:55 <Rubidium> IMO missing that numbering format isn't a big problem though, and I dislike locales anyway because they never suit my needs 22:16:07 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 22:16:46 <Rubidium> I want English, but times with a 24 hour clock, metric numbers, comma as decimal separator and dots as thousand separator. Which locale do I need? 22:16:48 *** slaca [~slaca@80-95-67-143.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #openttd 22:17:36 <glx> custom ;) 22:18:07 <mykoserocin> ^ 22:18:43 <drac_boy> anyway flygon you going sleep soon? 22:18:54 * Rubidium is 22:19:36 <Flygon> It's 9:19AM 22:20:00 <mykoserocin> Rubidium: you can even configure wheter it's A4 or Letter by default with LC_PAPER :) 22:20:17 <drac_boy> ah heh ok well flygon I'm going off for a bit re supper and more but if you're around later we can have a bit of random chat again ok? :) 22:20:54 <Rubidium> Flygon: lucky bastard... you already have had almost two fifths of Monday 22:20:56 <slaca> there is a big feature in openttd in every year (cargodist, rivers, ..) I would like to know what will be the biggest feature in 1.6.0? 22:21:19 *** drac_boy [~oftc-webi@modemcable027.125-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has left #openttd [] 22:21:52 <Flygon> drac_boy: A'ight 22:21:59 <Flygon> Rubidium: I USUALLY work Mondays. 22:22:02 <Flygon> Kinda wish I was 22:22:05 <Flygon> I need the $$$ 22:24:00 <Rubidium> slaca: I don't think there will be something big in 1.6.0 (or 1.6.0 isn't release in early Q2 of 2016) 22:25:15 <slaca> thanks, i thought it will be released in 1. of april 22:44:29 *** gelignite [~gelignite@f049236116.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: http://bit.ly/1kso8Ta] 22:54:47 *** slaca [~slaca@80-95-67-143.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:03:38 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18C86.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:07:02 *** Hiddenfunstuff [~Geth@y32.ip1.anvianet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:08:20 *** liq3 [liq3@CPE-120-148-51-74.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:11:04 <Eearslya> Is Bananas something that was written exclusively for OTTD? 23:18:45 *** rahtgaz [~rahtgaz@00021442.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: I'll be Bach] 23:29:03 *** Wormnest_ [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:35:03 *** JezK [~jez@2407:7800:400:107f:3db5:daca:8457:e66a] has joined #openttd 23:47:13 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~farci@i59F6BD6C.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:55:38 *** mykoserocin [~mykoseroc@000214a6.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:58:53 *** drac_boy [~oftc-webi@modemcable027.125-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd 23:58:56 <drac_boy> hi :) 23:59:18 * drac_boy wonders if flygon want to blather about slow little aussie locomotives