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ZZZzzz⊠[www.adiirc.com]] 03:50:39 *** pereba [~adiirc@2804:7f2:80:243d:2c84:fe7f:fa83:e995] has joined #openttd 03:51:29 *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 04:17:11 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] 04:41:49 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.136.141.100] has joined #openttd 05:29:45 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 05:52:42 *** Keridos [~Keridos@2a00:5ba0:8000:64:2e0:4cff:fe23:44af] has joined #openttd 06:14:27 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.136.141.100] has quit [] 06:17:06 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 06:35:41 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 06:36:16 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has left #openttd [] 07:27:15 <greeter> greetings 07:32:31 *** roidal [~roidal@cm215-81.liwest.at] has joined #openttd 07:42:17 *** rahtgaz [~rahtgaz@00021442.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 07:53:27 *** supermop [~supermop@pool-100-37-203-161.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 07:57:20 *** supermop_ [~supermop@static-71-249-209-97.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:00:30 *** supermop____ [~supermop@pool-100-37-203-161.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:00:30 *** supermop_ [~supermop@static-71-249-209-97.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 08:08:47 *** Quatroking [~Quatrokin@ip226-139-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #openttd 08:08:55 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host61-236-dynamic.24-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 08:09:02 <Wolf01> moin 08:10:56 <greeter> greetings Wolf01 08:12:10 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-137-142.natnow.res.rr.com] has left #openttd [] 08:15:20 *** roidal [~roidal@cm215-81.liwest.at] has quit [Quit: kernel panic 1.4] 08:22:22 <Alkel_U3> Morning 08:34:21 *** Hiddenfunstuff [~Geth@y32.ip1.anvianet.fi] has joined #openttd 08:37:38 *** M-E [~M@ip4da0d6bd.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #openttd 09:04:05 *** M-E [~M@ip4da0d6bd.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:19:29 *** pereba [~adiirc@2804:7f2:80:243d:2c84:fe7f:fa83:e995] has quit [Quit: AdiIRC is updating to v2.4 Beta Build (2016/06/07) 64 Bit] 09:19:55 *** pereba [~adiirc@2804:7f2:80:243d:2c84:fe7f:fa83:e995] has joined #openttd 09:54:54 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.136.141.100] has joined #openttd 09:58:24 *** NoShlomo [~NoShlomo@90.74.151.136] has joined #openttd 10:15:31 *** rahtgaz [~rahtgaz@00021442.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:16:44 *** rahtgaz [~rahtgaz@00021442.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 10:18:47 *** Rejf [rejf@nintendos.pl] has joined #openttd 10:19:30 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 10:30:22 *** M-E [~M@ip4da0d6bd.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #openttd 10:33:33 *** rahtgaz [~rahtgaz@00021442.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: I'll be Bach] 10:46:40 * Sacro hugs Belugas 11:11:11 *** TJ8703 [~oftc-webi@ip-90-186-48-170.web.vodafone.de] has joined #openttd 11:11:31 * TJ8703 slaps ST2 around a bit with a large fishbot 11:11:48 <greeter> lol 11:12:32 <ST2> that was the slap that will make him regret long time :P 11:23:31 *** TJ8703 [~oftc-webi@ip-90-186-48-170.web.vodafone.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:03:53 *** rahtgaz [~rahtgaz@00021442.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 12:12:06 <Cursarion> hmm 12:12:33 <Cursarion> is there any plans to implement subway/underground in the game? 12:12:59 <V453000> n 12:17:53 <Eddi|zuHause> depends what conditions you apply to something being a "plan" 12:21:11 <Cursarion> I did a quick google search earlier and saw something from 2007 12:23:10 <Alkel_U3> iirc it was hacky and quite unstable 12:23:51 <greeter> greetings Alkel_U3 12:24:12 <Alkel_U3> EHLO greeter 12:24:20 <greeter> what's up? 12:24:36 <Alkel_U3> Work work 12:24:48 <Alkel_U3> Slow day today 12:24:48 <greeter> fun stuff 12:26:08 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@108-221-157-231.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:26:14 <Alkel_U3> Fun stuff... you'll look at that term differently after a few hundred hours of Dwarf Fortress :P 12:26:17 <greeter> i set up an irc bot to interact with the openttd server :-D 12:26:19 <greeter> lol 12:26:52 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@108-221-157-231.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 12:30:25 <argoneus> good morning train friends 12:30:42 <Wolf01> good morning argoneus 12:31:08 <greeter> greetings 12:31:44 <Alkel_U3> meanwhile, I set up a batch of yeast. This year's elderbery wine will be something 12:31:54 <greeter> nice 12:35:29 *** sim-al2 is now known as Guest3485 12:35:30 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@108-221-157-231.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 12:37:54 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 12:38:53 *** Guest3485 [~sim-al2@108-221-157-231.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:43:31 *** sim-al2 is now known as Guest3487 12:43:33 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@108-221-157-231.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 12:49:33 *** Guest3487 [~sim-al2@108-221-157-231.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:50:38 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] 12:55:48 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:56:20 *** baran98 [~baran98@72.143.10.50] has joined #openttd 13:29:49 <supermop_> yo 13:33:58 *** andythenorth [~Andy@194.168.185.226] has joined #openttd 13:39:05 *** JezK_ [~jez@2407:7800:400:107f:3db5:daca:8457:e66a] has quit [Quit: :q!] 13:45:40 <Alkel_U3> greeter: I see you reset the server 13:46:22 <Alkel_U3> what changed? 14:00:08 *** rahtgaz [~rahtgaz@00021442.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: I'll be Bach] 14:05:10 *** andythenorth [~Andy@194.168.185.226] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 14:05:26 *** andythenorth [~Andy@194.168.185.226] has joined #openttd 14:05:55 *** andythenorth [~Andy@194.168.185.226] has quit [] 14:19:41 *** andythenorth [~Andy@194.168.185.226] has joined #openttd 14:23:26 <supermop_> sigh not sure i should bother posting this long ass response in eu referendum thread 14:25:18 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd 14:25:21 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 14:34:09 *** pereba [~adiirc@2804:7f2:80:243d:2c84:fe7f:fa83:e995] has quit [Quit: Little strokes fell great oaks. www.adiirc.com] 14:42:56 <peter1138> well you won't sway me 14:44:33 <supermop_> the post was not explicity in or out, but more to argue that a mutually beneficial relationship is actually a thing that can exist 14:45:34 <Alberth> one sentence seems sufficient :p 14:47:14 <supermop_> i picked an awkward, belabored example, that wouldn't necessarily be universally popular, and might actually be touted as a counter-example by someone who believes everything is necessarily zero-sum 14:48:56 *** andythenorth [~Andy@194.168.185.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:04:51 <peter1138> yeah but a mutually beneficial relationship isn't what is being voted on 15:07:50 <V453000> oooh politics 15:07:55 <V453000> I'm in 15:08:07 <V453000> soooo fuck the EU Y/N? 15:13:37 <Wolf01> Y 15:14:27 <V453000> so when is the referendum? 15:14:45 <V453000> pf 23 15:14:46 <V453000> far 15:17:47 <supermop_> peter1138: that's not relevant to point i was making, as I was responding to a post which seemed to argue that any relationship beneficial to one party is objectively detrimental to other parties 15:18:57 <peter1138> k 15:19:34 <supermop_> i tried drafting up NATO membership as an example, but it is a bit awkward as one might argue that the force multiplication (the benefit to members small and large) is actually a detriment 15:20:35 <supermop_> if you take the strength of NATO to be geopolitically undesirable due to personal point of view, or if you disagree with the idea of a global military hegemon on principal 15:21:22 <supermop_> both of which are valid standpoints for many people, although maybe not particularly within a member nation of the 5 eyes 15:22:25 <supermop_> if i argue that say, the Netherlands receives the 'benefit' of nuclear deterrent without the cost of a nuclear program, 15:22:58 <supermop_> many people, in the Netherlands or not, may argue that that is a dubious 'benefit' 15:23:01 <V453000> that is all nice and fancy until it becomes political/bureaucratical horseshit 15:23:19 <V453000> which is exactly what EU is to me 15:24:18 <supermop_> i could well be a Dutchman who opposes nuclear weapons, and resents the idea that American, French, and British warheads are 'protecting' me 15:24:42 <V453000> that sounds ridiculously hypocritical 15:24:50 <V453000> I hate it but it's fine if it protects me 15:25:02 <V453000> is same as "I love freedom of speech but only until you offend me" 15:26:15 <supermop_> or i could be apathetic about nuclear weapons one way or the other, but fear that those american warheads are provocative and are inviting more trouble and attention than the Netherlands would get into on its own were it a neutral nation 15:26:24 <V453000> wait do I translate resent correctly even XD 15:27:49 <supermop_> V453000: imagine that if the US were to go to switzerland, and say, we will protect you with out nuclear deterrent, free of charge, without you having to do anything! 15:28:14 <supermop_> i imagine they might not be so excited about receiving such a 'gift' 15:28:21 <supermop_> *with our 15:28:40 <V453000> -> ? 15:29:18 <supermop_> some swiss citizens would prefer to have no nuclear deterrant rather than have the US 'giving' them one 15:30:34 <V453000> I understand, but what point are you trying to say? 15:31:41 <supermop_> that my choice of an example to explain a mutually beneficial relationship was a poor one 15:32:26 <supermop_> because many people may disagree that NATO is that beneficial, whether from a pacifist, or neutrality point of view 15:32:49 <V453000> well, is current EU a mutually beneficial relationship? to me it looks like just collective socialism 15:33:21 <Alberth> what about the euro zone? 15:33:51 <V453000> you mean same currency for different states? Isn't that maintainable even without a central bureaucratic mess? 15:33:53 <supermop_> if you want your country to be neutral and pacifist, the 'benefit' that NATO gives you more collective military power for your money is actually undesirable to you 15:34:27 <supermop_> V453000: there will have to be a central bank for a currency, shared or otherwise 15:34:44 <V453000> is central bank impossible to have even without EU? 15:35:14 <supermop_> you could keep using the euro without participating in its bank, but why forfeit your voice in it 15:35:38 <supermop_> many small latin american countries use the USD or peg their currency to it 15:35:55 <supermop_> but the federal reserve remains the 'central bank' 15:36:19 <supermop_> and those countries have absolutely no voice in its decisions 15:37:14 <supermop_> the can diplomatically express that they wish the USD to be weaker or stronger, but they cannot take the actions to make it so 15:38:15 <supermop_> and the FRB did not ask those countries to use USD, and has other US-centric priorities 15:39:21 *** Wormnest [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 15:39:23 <supermop_> if the US wants a weak dollar to better sell exports, and Ecuador wants a weak dollar to better buy imports (usually it is the other way around), Ecuador cannot do anything about it 15:42:01 <supermop_> V453000: you could make the euro totally independant of the EU, but then how would the euro's central bank then exert any control over the member users to actually affect its policy decisions 15:43:57 <supermop_> with the USD, only the US can issue more currency, and the US economy dwarfs those of other countries that share the dollar, so the Federal Reserve and the Treasury can affect monetary policy regardless of what those other countries do 15:44:42 <supermop_> if you had a shared euro where France wanted to print money, but Germany wanted to strengthen the currency, how would that work? 15:45:29 <supermop_> these would be two economies of same order of magnitude, where neither is the clear 'owner' of the central bank 15:47:10 <supermop_> you could say, well German is bigger economically, so just let them run the euro, but isn't that arguably worse for non-german states than the current bureaucracy? 15:47:24 *** Gja [~Martin@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #openttd 15:50:06 <supermop_> anyway, americans regardless of political leaning all benefit from a united EU, so we are biased 15:50:14 *** TheMask96 [martijn@wrath.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:51:21 <supermop_> sorry for the wall of text 15:53:51 <V453000> admittedly I am unable to think in this level of global economy, but when I see the bullshit laws that EU is trying to make, how retarded projects do EU money go into, how many "beneficial" companies exist purely to consume EU funding projects and their sole purpose is to pretend activity so that they get more of those projects, and then when it gets to something serious like the greek money shit or immigrant stuff, the EU is unable to respo 15:54:16 *** TheMask96 [martijn@envy.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 15:55:27 <monsted> EU has many faults, but not many that the individual countries wouldn't have made themselves individually 15:56:14 <V453000> fair point 15:56:50 <V453000> but I guess it feels much better if you fucked up and are responsible for it than if you did nothing because of some detached government somewhere 15:58:28 <monsted> of course you can always pull out the old EU law that prevents the sale of crooked cucumbers to retail customers 15:59:38 <V453000> yes and probably hundreds of similar things 16:00:45 <monsted> but then look at the british or danish laws and you'll find a thousand others just as dumb :) 16:01:35 <V453000> you make a good point 16:02:01 <V453000> but I still feel like tolerating this shit just isn't helping 16:05:19 <monsted> someone needs to sit down and read through the entire law library and get out the red ink 16:05:51 <monsted> cut out 80% of dead and dumb law 16:06:07 <monsted> then iterate on that, cutting 80% of what remains every year. 16:06:54 <Wolf01> EU only need one law: don't be a dickhead... 16:07:14 <monsted> that would be nice 16:10:26 <Wolf01> I really hate the limits imposed to countries because "heh it's the free market, country-B should be able to sell the same stuff too, so you need to limit the production or here's your fine" 16:11:13 <Wolf01> we lost 40% of milk production this way 16:13:31 <monsted> a friend of my family is a black currant farmer. the EU put billions into polish farms who completely undermined his market and he's now pretty much screwed. fortunately, he's not far off retirement, so he's taking an EU handout for going organic and will probably just retire when that runs out. 16:15:45 <monsted> they'll pretty much pay him what he'd usually make and he can pretty much just coast for five years while the land cleans itself of the evil additives and then he can quit. 16:16:50 <V453000> exactly Wolf01 ... why not try to sell the milk as EU, no we just limit our production 16:16:51 <V453000> wtf 16:22:04 <Wolf01> they started with the wrong foot, you need first to make the people feel like a great comunity, then you can proceed to unificate the rules and make the same generic laws (legal and criminal, so a thief will get the same sentence everywhere), but leaving also the freedom of the various countries to keep some local laws (administrative ones) 16:22:33 <Wolf01> then you unificate the market 16:22:42 <monsted> it's sad when the market makes us overproduce something and then just flush it down the drain, instead of encouraging new products that could be sold/exported 16:23:34 <monsted> in general, i don't understand why we're even subsidizing something that already gets overproduced. surely, this is the wrong way round? 16:24:03 <Wolf01> they started from the market, but without a comunity feeling and keeping al the rivalry of different markets 16:24:52 <Alberth> I think you approach it from the wrong direction; you assume there is sense in politics 16:38:57 * Rubidium thinks this is the standard: people get excited about bad things, and don't care much about good things which makes sentiments go wild 16:40:40 <Rubidium> which effectively means that the "bad" things vastly overwhelm the "good" things in these debates and that's not something you should base your opinion on 16:41:45 <Wolf01> people get excited by non-sense bad things, if there were "right" bad things I could have accepted them 16:42:47 <Rubidium> see the massive hysteria about nuclear power plants, whereas coal power plants put way more radiation into the atmosphere (per kWh) 16:42:54 <Rubidium> (including accidents) 16:44:08 <Wolf01> that's for example a non-sense, we have a law which prohibits the creation of new nuclear power plants, while all around there are many, even really close to our borders 16:46:05 <Rubidium> also... one month Fukushima Exclusion Zone == Head CT scan 16:46:07 <Wolf01> I can understand the problem of nuclear wastes, but now there are some ways of reduce them and even use them again 16:47:24 <Rubidium> fun is that coal power plants just pump their nuclear waste into the air 16:47:45 <Alkel_U3> pff, coal plants. They have nothing on bananas 16:48:17 <Rubidium> but then... your nuclear dose from yourself is like 4000 times higher than living near a nuclear power plant 16:48:20 <Rubidium> so what gives? 16:49:13 <Rubidium> anyhow, that's basically the point... focusing on the feeling of danger than actual danger 16:50:35 <Wolf01> also the funny thing is that our country invest money on the nuclear program of other countries :D 16:53:27 <Rubidium> anyhow, it's UK's loss because if they get out, it would be easier for me to get (the same) training in say Finland than England 16:54:21 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 16:54:24 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 16:58:58 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 16:59:17 <andythenorth> o/ 17:00:40 <Alberth> o/ 17:07:46 <Wolf01> o/ 17:22:26 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~farci@i59F6ACDE.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 17:23:52 <andythenorth> more FIRS âletâs playâ :D https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zE4S6ER1Qg 17:32:34 *** rahtgaz [~rahtgaz@00021442.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 17:33:56 <andythenorth> loads of them :O https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=FIRS+openttd 17:42:02 *** rahtgaz [~rahtgaz@00021442.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:43:48 <andythenorth> hmm 17:43:54 <andythenorth> mining trucks are silly in Road Hog 17:46:00 <andythenorth> if there were road types, maybe theyâd make sense 17:46:54 <greeter> hmm 17:51:47 *** gelignite [~gelignite@x4e35b1b8.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 17:52:48 * andythenorth suspects mining trucks are included because the HEQS sprites exist already 17:57:16 <V453000> heyo 17:57:40 *** Rejf [rejf@nintendos.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:59:06 *** frosch123 [~frosch@00013ce7.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 18:02:21 *** aard [~aard@108.134.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has joined #openttd 18:03:23 <andythenorth> lo V453000 18:03:27 <andythenorth> also frosch123 18:04:53 <frosch123> hoin 18:05:45 *** rahtgaz [~rahtgaz@00021442.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 18:09:09 <mz-e520> ello. slightly esoteric question but... the user interface in openttd is beautiful and extremely well behaved with regards to apparently always being up-to-date (change some state in one window such as buying a new wagon, and the capacity is instantly updated in any other windows that are open and happen to be observing the train), etc 18:09:20 <mz-e520> is there any documentation outside of the code on the design? 18:09:37 <mz-e520> it's conspicuously and drastically better than almost any in-game UI i can think of 18:10:13 <mz-e520> i'm mildly fascinated by it on a professional level 18:10:20 <frosch123> openttd does strict command serialisation and execution 18:10:30 <frosch123> a button never triggers an update of the gui itself 18:10:42 <mz-e520> nice 18:10:54 <frosch123> instead a button triggers an action, which is send to the server, forwared to all clients, and the clients then notify all relevant windows 18:11:41 <mz-e520> was it always this way? even in the original proprietary version? 18:12:13 <frosch123> no, multiplayer got better over time 18:12:41 <frosch123> every now and then there is a windows that does not update correctly :) 18:12:59 <mz-e520> hehe, i'll keep an eye out 18:13:29 <mz-e520> it's a really great piece of work 18:13:43 <frosch123> anyway, all that stuff comes with a downside :) 18:13:59 *** M-E [~M@ip4da0d6bd.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:14:07 <frosch123> if your network connection is laggy, pressing a button does not give an immediate response 18:14:16 <mz-e520> right 18:14:24 <greeter> i've found that out before playing openttd over satellite 18:14:37 <frosch123> say: you can press the sell-vehicle button twice 18:14:42 <frosch123> the first one will then succeed 18:14:53 <frosch123> and the second one will spawn a "vehicle does not exist" error or similar 18:14:54 *** M-E [~M@ip4da0d6bd.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #openttd 18:15:03 <frosch123> maybe you are even kicked for trying something invaild :p 18:15:10 <mz-e520> hm! 18:15:48 <frosch123> but i guess most of these command fail silently and are ignored without message 18:15:54 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18308.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 18:16:26 <frosch123> but yes, tricks like using a autoclicker to sell a vehicle multiple times do not work in ottd 18:16:48 <frosch123> eu4 is very different to ottd in that respect :p 18:17:16 <frosch123> if you manage to immitate the eu4 network protocol, you can likely cheat like hell 18:17:29 <mz-e520> hm, what's eu4? 18:17:37 <frosch123> europa universal 4 18:17:44 <frosch123> a fairly complex game 18:17:51 * mz-e520 eyes it 18:17:57 <frosch123> but it does a ton of vaildations in the gui only 18:18:16 <frosch123> there have been dozen of bugs where you can exploit something by clicking things faster than the game can process them 18:18:29 <mz-e520> heh 18:20:58 <mz-e520> i find the ottd ui a lot more aesthetically pleasing than the eu4 screenshots... 18:22:03 <frosch123> both are overwhelming if you do not know the game :) 18:22:11 <mz-e520> yep \o/ 18:28:46 <Wolf01> the worse gui I found (leaving out my own games) is in wargame: european escalation 18:29:00 <Wolf01> *worst 18:29:26 <Alkel_U3> oh, you play it? :-) 18:29:32 <Wolf01> yes, sometimes 18:30:41 <Wolf01> numbers and letters printed on the screen which are the actual ui o_O 18:34:10 <Wolf01> https://assets.vg247.com/current//2012/07/wargame_european_escalation-dlc2_04.jpg <- that "DO882" in the top left is clickable and opens the "request units" menu 18:35:07 <Alkel_U3> i see nothing inherently wrong with that 18:35:49 <Wolf01> an ui where you can't tell the difference about an informative label and an actual menu is a bad ui 18:35:59 <Alkel_U3> it is pointed out in the first mission (a bit vaguely) 18:36:30 <Alkel_U3> it's not a jewel but it's usable imho 18:36:43 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 18:36:44 <Wolf01> "a bit", it took 15 minutes to me to find it, and a google search 18:37:06 *** Nadejde [~oftc-webi@62-64-151-61.dynamic.dial.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 18:37:18 <Nadejde> Hi guys! 18:37:32 <greeter> greetings Nadejde 18:37:33 <Wolf01> the man of war: allied assault one is really more understandable 18:37:46 <Wolf01> *men 18:37:49 <Nadejde> Could you help me out with a question regarding dedicated servers and console? 18:37:58 <Wolf01> a*assault squad 18:38:09 <V453000> ass quad? 18:38:15 <greeter> maybe. ask away 18:38:40 <Nadejde> is it actually possible to download a scenario from bananas and launch a game with that scenario from the console? 18:39:16 <Nadejde> from the wiki it seems like that should be possible. but if i use the content commands the newgrf files don't seem to get downloaded 18:39:18 <greeter> just when i think i'm learning a lot, someone asks a question i don't know the answer to :-S 18:39:25 <Nadejde> :)) 18:39:59 <Nadejde> and all you get is tar files have no ideea how to actually use the load command to load it and get it running... 18:41:09 <Nadejde> I guess I'll just post in the forums:) but if the answer was a straight no might saved everyones time:) 18:43:07 <supermop_> wasted 2 hours of time installing a carpet for a client 18:44:02 <supermop_> not sure why they would want to pay their design firm for that labor instead of tthe relvant tradesman, or even just a random non-union handyman 18:44:20 <greeter> ouch. what is your trade anyway? 18:44:31 <Alkel_U3> the answer seems to be yes https://wiki.openttd.org/Console (under file handling commands) 18:44:57 <Alkel_U3> as for launching the scenario, I think it's the same as loading a save - "load" 18:45:13 <Alkel_U3> Nadejde: ^ 18:45:25 <Nadejde> thank you. i tryied all that 18:45:51 <Nadejde> the content commands work fine (event though the related newgrf files don't seem to download) 18:46:14 <Nadejde> however browsing to the scenario folder doesn't list anything 18:47:18 <Nadejde> if i navigate to downloaded_content/scenarios where i know the tar file is and do ls nothing is displayed 18:47:19 <Alkel_U3> were you looking in content_download? 18:47:27 <Alkel_U3> ok 18:48:21 <Nadejde> looked both in content_download and in plain scenarios (with the UI I would just go into Scenarios and they would be listed there even though theyre not actually in that folder....) 18:49:22 <Nadejde> doing a content update > content state shows the scenario as installed though... 18:49:30 <supermop_> my 'trade' is architect, so no union, and no trade pay 18:49:48 <supermop_> but my boss gets to make a big markup on my time on site 18:50:30 <supermop_> as technically that 2 hours counts as 2 hours of the professional design services of a design firm 18:51:03 <andythenorth> £90 / hour? 18:59:20 <Alkel_U3> Nadejde: yeah, the tar is there, but it doesn't show in the GUI, too 18:59:29 <Alkel_U3> strange 19:00:06 <supermop_> andythenorth: ha actually this job wasn't originally one of my projects so i don't know our terms for ongoing additional billable hours with them 19:00:45 <supermop_> but in general such a service could easily get as high as 0/hr with firms in NYC 19:01:21 <supermop_> cheaper than hiring your lawyers or McKinsey consultants to lay carpet at least 19:01:55 <andythenorth> figures 19:03:40 <Alkel_U3> oh, wait, my bad. It is in the gui 19:03:44 *** M-E [~M@ip4da0d6bd.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:06:01 <Nadejde> yeah. you can see the tar file in the gui 19:06:15 <Nadejde> but the scenarios show in openttd/scenarios directly 19:06:21 *** FLHerne [~flh@cpc4-papw5-2-0-cust175.5-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 19:06:28 <Nadejde> if you go through the load scenario gui. even though that folder is actually open 19:06:31 <Nadejde> empty 19:07:09 <Nadejde> Well I've posted the question to the forums also: https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=74909 19:07:26 <Nadejde> just wanted to check here first in case it was really simple and I was beeing stupid :) 19:07:27 <Alkel_U3> hm, the unpacked scn file doesn't show for me in the console, either 19:08:20 <Nadejde> yup tried that also. unpacking the tar and checking out if i can load the .scn file directly 19:09:26 <Alkel_U3> I kinda sorta suspect that might be a bug 19:10:22 <Alkel_U3> or unimplemented feature 19:10:34 <Nadejde> sounds more like an unimplemented feature to be honest:) 19:10:56 <Nadejde> I't fine if it just cant be done. At least I know and I wont waste my time 19:11:02 *** roidal [~roidal@cm215-81.liwest.at] has joined #openttd 19:11:16 <Nadejde> Question is is there any way of launching a scenario through the console at all:) 19:11:31 <Nadejde> never mind the downloading of content. I'll just copy that myself 19:11:51 <FLHerne> Nadejde: You could just rename it to .sav, we know those work 19:12:16 <FLHerne> (Scenarios are savegames, and v.v.) 19:12:35 <Nadejde> hmm. If i load a scenario on my desktop and gen save it straight out, copy that over to the server and load it? 19:12:49 <Alkel_U3> at that point, it will be less hassle to jst launch openttd -D -g file.scn 19:13:07 <Nadejde> tried that also! 19:13:33 <Alkel_U3> well, mabe you should have started with what you tried :-) 19:13:44 <Nadejde> ERROR: Game Load Failed?NewGRF mismatch 19:14:11 <Nadejde> yeah. this goes back to the fact the the NewGRF don't seem to be downloaded i guess... 19:15:01 <Nadejde> Loading game failed, so a new (random) game will be started! and then the ERROR about NewGRF mismatch after it generates a random game 19:15:04 *** Wormnest_ [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 19:15:12 <supermop_> hmm - need to go somewhere on long island railroad.. if i take the subway all the way out to end of line and then catch the train i save compared to taking the train all the way from penn station in the city 19:15:16 <Nadejde> hmm let me try to use a savegame see if that works 19:16:40 <Alkel_U3> I'm kinda affraid it's gonna need manual babysiting :/ 19:17:03 <Alkel_U3> with the required grfs 19:18:46 <Nadejde> yeah same error dbg: [net] Loading game failed, so a new (random) game will be started! 19:19:04 <Nadejde> ill try copying the grfs over also 19:19:48 <Nadejde> why would you even need grfs for a dedicated server anyway? 19:20:13 <Alkel_U3> it's not only about the graphics 19:20:46 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18308.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:21:12 <Alkel_U3> they change the game and the server needs to know how, as well as any other client 19:21:35 <Nadejde> right! makes sense 19:22:13 *** Wormnest [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:22:29 <Nadejde> still fails even after copying all the newgrfs over... 19:23:01 <Nadejde> hmm or not... 19:26:25 <Nadejde> ha it's working! 19:26:26 <Nadejde> openttd-playtest.northeurope.cloudapp.azure.com 19:26:28 <Nadejde> excelent 19:26:39 <Nadejde> cheers for your help! 19:26:45 <andythenorth> hmmm 19:27:09 <andythenorth> Road Hog tram generations are 48t-72, and increase in size in proportion to capacity 19:27:43 <andythenorth> Road Hog on-highway trucks are 25t-40t, and are roughly the same size, but newer models look more boss 19:27:53 <andythenorth> Road Hog off-highway trucks are just a mess 19:28:34 <andythenorth> 50t-120t, size varies according to no obvious rationale 19:30:16 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7834/mining-trucks-bah.png 19:30:27 <andythenorth> 50t, 85t, 120t 19:31:03 <andythenorth> physically, the sprites are not much bigger than equivalent highway trucks with 50% of the capacity 19:31:17 * andythenorth wonders, just delete them? 19:32:46 <supermop_> andythenorth: the extra space is being taken up by big tires and springs? 19:33:55 <andythenorth> maybe 19:34:02 <andythenorth> again, realism is the problem here 19:34:10 <andythenorth> this is a brit-ish roster 19:34:19 <V453000> gg R 19:34:25 <andythenorth> yeah 19:34:45 <andythenorth> UK doesnât have many big off-highway trucks 19:34:50 <andythenorth> delete, or fake? 19:35:23 <frosch123> fake :) 19:35:45 <andythenorth> winning answer 19:35:50 <frosch123> mabye do only 50t, 70t and 90t though 19:35:56 <andythenorth> agreed 19:35:59 <frosch123> 120 is kind of a lot 19:36:02 <andythenorth> yup 19:36:15 <frosch123> in most cases i use the short trams in heqs 19:36:34 <frosch123> or medium? 19:36:37 <frosch123> well, those around 90 tons 19:36:38 <andythenorth> 120t is train sized (or at least a narrow gauge train in Iron Horse) :P 19:37:01 <andythenorth> if there were road types, bigger might make more sense, have to build segregated routes :P 19:38:43 <andythenorth> next problem, nearly all trucks (except mail) are articulated in Iron Horse 19:39:00 <andythenorth> no nonsense where you upgrade vehicles, but canât route to some station on the route 19:39:06 <frosch123> i prefer drive-though stops 19:39:18 <frosch123> +r 19:39:32 <V453000> like everybody :P 19:39:33 <andythenorth> due to realism, the big mining trucks could be non-articulated :P 19:39:39 <andythenorth> but that breaks the convention 19:39:43 <frosch123> the rotating vehicles in drive-in stops have always been weird 19:40:08 <andythenorth> the single unit mining truck sprites would look best though 19:40:14 <andythenorth> and are already drawn for HEQS 19:40:17 <andythenorth> so eh? :P 19:41:17 *** Wormnest__ [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 19:46:15 <supermop_> andythenorth: the Kilimanjaro mining truck turning around to park at a dead-end stop looks hilarious 19:46:25 <andythenorth> you think? :D 19:46:57 <supermop_> apparently that think has the turning radius of a forklift 19:47:45 <andythenorth> it flips on the spot :) 19:48:02 <andythenorth> I could make them arbitrarily articulated to force drive-through roadstops only 19:48:05 <andythenorth> is that daft? 19:48:12 <andythenorth> (invisible vehicle) 19:48:14 *** Wormnest_ [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:48:41 * andythenorth considers a newgrf flag :P 19:49:21 * frosch123 assigns FS#6475 to andy 19:49:23 <andythenorth> that kilimanjaro is a good sprite 19:49:33 <andythenorth> should be used again 19:50:33 <andythenorth> 6475 is a bit wtf :P 19:51:34 <frosch123> is there a patch that adds "usable roadstops" to the purchase list info? 19:51:42 <frosch123> in addition to "usable airports"? 19:54:08 <andythenorth> interesting point 19:54:11 <FLHerne> p 19:54:22 <FLHerne> [ignore] 19:54:32 <andythenorth> can we just delete drive-in stops? 19:54:48 <andythenorth> theyâre a PITA, with no upside 19:55:13 <Alkel_U3> whaat? I use them 19:55:15 <FLHerne> They're useful as a buffer for dealing with delayed vehicles 19:55:45 <andythenorth> I use them, but only for buses in town, and only for the look of them 19:55:59 <FLHerne> If you have long timetabled waits in drive-through stops, vehicles come up behind and form queues and then gum up the entire road network 19:56:05 <andythenorth> itâs been asserted that drive-through stops have higher throughput 19:56:11 <Alkel_U3> the're useful in cramped spaces or when I want to guarantee long distance coaches in a bus terminal, for example 19:56:15 <FLHerne> (because the RV pathfinder isn't good at avoiding queues) 19:56:45 <FLHerne> Drive-in stops have lower throughput, but random-access to bays 19:57:17 <supermop_> andythenorth: they are the only way for RVs to lay-up at the moment 19:57:26 <andythenorth> depot? 19:57:41 <supermop_> cant timetable wait in depot 19:58:00 <andythenorth> hmm, you say things where I know the words, but not what you mean ;) 19:58:04 <andythenorth> âtimetableâ? 19:58:23 <supermop_> so out of order RVs will not pass each other in depots or drive through stops 19:58:42 <supermop_> also what FLHerne said 19:59:01 <supermop_> sorry, what Alkel_U3 said 19:59:41 <supermop_> bus waits at station until following bus arrives, then departs 20:00:38 <supermop_> ensuring one bus always loading, better ratings, and a chance for a late running vehicle to catch up and pass an on-time vehicle that is ahead of it but should be behind 20:01:57 <supermop_> this could be avoided if late running RVs didn't just ride the ass of the RV in front and never drive around them to enter drive-through from other side 20:03:23 <andythenorth> ha ha I found an old patch I made 20:03:24 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7399/disable-drive-in-stops.png 20:03:37 <Alkel_U3> Not that I haven't been doing that, but now that you talk about it it reminded me of A-Train. It was fun scheduling all the trains to go without a collision :-) 20:03:46 <FLHerne> Would help if overtaking worked in drive-throughs, too 20:04:09 <andythenorth> hmm 20:04:15 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7835/capacity-plausible.png 20:04:27 <andythenorth> ^ the highway truck is 40t, is the mining truck plausibly 90t? 20:05:07 <sim-al2> The mining truck almost certainly weightes more empty just because it's tougher 20:05:24 <sim-al2> But the bed is much larger too 20:06:10 <sim-al2> It wouldn't be too unusual for a heavy minerals to be loaded only partially in a truck to avoid being overloaded 20:10:14 <supermop_> carry less iron ore than coal for example 20:10:27 <supermop_> rather other way around 20:10:34 <sim-al2> Same weight, but less volume 20:10:40 <supermop_> yeah 20:11:08 <sim-al2> On TTD scale, the small mining truck looks fine 20:12:24 <andythenorth> so should I make it articulated to ban it from drive-in stops? 20:12:30 <andythenorth> the 2 previous generations are articulated 20:13:28 <frosch123> i don't think you need to worry about that 20:13:43 <frosch123> if the players want to use it in drive-in stops, just let them 20:14:47 <andythenorth> fool to a slavish consistency? 20:19:55 <andythenorth> think this could carry 50t? https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1f/Sentinel_DG8_at_Beamish_Steam_Fair.jpg 20:20:01 <andythenorth> probably implausible :P 20:20:32 <sim-al2> Yeah, that's probably not going to work :p 20:30:45 <frosch123> it's weird, 99.9% of pictures with vehicles with two front-axles i have seen were from andy 20:31:03 <frosch123> quite an uk think apparently 20:31:54 <frosch123> anyway, is that thing running on steam? 20:32:01 <andythenorth> yup 20:32:05 <andythenorth> they go fast too 20:33:17 <andythenorth> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUBKcqoaZqY 20:40:07 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18308.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 20:40:29 <andythenorth> can I have a vehicle which is 2 trucks in a convoy? o_O 20:40:33 <andythenorth> cheating :P 20:40:46 <andythenorth> we have multi-unit train engines 20:42:13 <frosch123> all old-timer conventions i have been to had one-cylinder combustion engines 20:42:29 <frosch123> i never encountered steam trucks like that 20:43:24 <andythenorth> they were mostly UK and export to commonwealth countries 20:50:05 *** Rejf [rejf@nintendos.pl] has joined #openttd 20:52:10 <Wolf01> meh I have too many games.. and I just purchased another humble bundle :| 20:52:16 *** Nadejde [~oftc-webi@62-64-151-61.dynamic.dial.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:53:00 <frosch123> Wolf01: maybe focus on lego then :) 20:53:58 <Wolf01> yes I already have decided what I want to purchase in the next 2 months 20:54:37 <frosch123> why does that not surprise me? :p 20:56:26 *** gelignite [~gelignite@x4e35b1b8.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: http://bit.ly/1kso8Ta] 20:56:40 *** Gja [~Martin@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 20:57:47 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd [] 21:07:28 <Wolf01> andythenorth, I think a coupling system in the RV depot like simutrans one could really be what you want, also it saves some of your work because you can draw a trailer once and couple it to all the (compatible) tractors :D 21:15:44 *** roidal [~roidal@cm215-81.liwest.at] has quit [Quit: kernel panic 1.4] 21:16:00 *** frosch123 [~frosch@00013ce7.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 21:17:49 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.136.141.100] has quit [] 21:23:49 *** rahtgaz [~rahtgaz@00021442.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: I'll be Bach] 21:30:50 <andythenorth> Wolf01: that was considered once 21:30:53 <andythenorth> RV-wagons 21:30:55 <andythenorth> there was a spec 21:31:20 <andythenorth> you only need one tractor unit per generation that way 21:31:27 <andythenorth> but eh, faff :P 21:31:44 <andythenorth> also bedtime 21:37:16 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 21:39:12 *** aard [~aard@108.134.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:47:54 *** Biolunar [Biolunar@x5d823b1a.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:51:02 *** JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc80661-stap13-2-0-cust817.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 21:53:58 *** Wormnest__ [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:16:01 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18308.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:18:35 *** rahtgaz [~rahtgaz@00021442.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 22:20:39 *** JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc80661-stap13-2-0-cust817.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: JacobD88] 22:28:12 *** Xal [~xal@S0106f0f2490b0073.vw.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 22:30:51 *** FLHerne [~flh@cpc4-papw5-2-0-cust175.5-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: There's a real world out here!] 22:56:37 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 22:58:28 *** Netsplit synthon.oftc.net <-> charm.oftc.net quits: argoneus 23:00:25 *** Netsplit over, joins: argoneus 23:17:47 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~farci@i59F6ACDE.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:29:49 *** tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 23:29:52 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 23:36:34 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:54:24 *** Hiddenfunstuff [~Geth@y32.ip1.anvianet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:57:00 *** TrueBrain_ [~truebrain@i210033.upc-i.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 23:58:13 *** TrueBrain [~truebrain@000125f6.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]