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00:22:04 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] 00:30:17 <Ethereal_Whisper> This is one of the stranger networks I've ever built 00:30:19 <Ethereal_Whisper> Lots of clutter 00:30:31 <Ethereal_Whisper> Playing on a 128x128 map with only one of each industry type (FIRS basic) 00:31:00 <Ethereal_Whisper> Just trying to link them all and keeping lines relatively separate... some are only single track, one-train lines, which feels weird to build but there's no point in making double track for it 00:31:39 <Ethereal_Whisper> http://puu.sh/qJHVx/5fd01a2627.png like this strange little cluster 00:31:47 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 00:35:07 <Eddi|zuHause> the optimal for short distances is to double track only the loading station, then have one train moving while the other one loads 00:35:31 *** ElleKitty [~Elle@93-86-59-90.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:35:33 <Eddi|zuHause> that way the rating doesn't drop while the train is on the way 00:35:46 <Ethereal_Whisper> Hm I'll do that 00:36:00 *** FLHerne [~flh@cpc4-papw5-2-0-cust175.5-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: There's a real world out here!] 00:36:00 <Eddi|zuHause> adjust the length of the train so that it'll be done loading at the same time the other train returns 00:36:50 <Ethereal_Whisper> With that tiny of a distance, my TL would probably just be 1 00:36:51 <Ethereal_Whisper> Lol 00:37:15 <Eddi|zuHause> well, could use trucks :p 00:37:31 <Ethereal_Whisper> That's no fun :P 00:37:48 <Eddi|zuHause> your income will be low if the vehicles load too long 00:37:56 <Ethereal_Whisper> I just made them crash whoops 00:38:01 <Ethereal_Whisper> Guess I'm rebuilding those short lines 00:38:24 <Ethereal_Whisper> Oh, I cloned the wrong train 00:38:31 <Ethereal_Whisper> I put 3 scrap metal trains and 1 coal train 00:40:00 <Eddi|zuHause> the advantage of a small map is that you can really fine tune and micromanage the vehicles 00:40:48 <Ethereal_Whisper> I figured it out :) 00:42:30 <Ethereal_Whisper> http://puu.sh/qJIuC/39bd5a78ca.png now it's ideal 01:01:27 <supermop> those are pretty short trains 01:18:54 *** JezK_ [~jez@2407:7800:400:107f:3db5:daca:8457:e66a] has joined #openttd 01:25:36 *** CompuDesktop [~Compu@98.0.16.177] has joined #openttd 01:29:01 *** Compu [~Compu@cpe-67-255-36-150.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:30:57 *** Compu_ [~Compu@98.0.16.177] has joined #openttd 01:36:33 *** CompuDesktop [~Compu@98.0.16.177] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:53:13 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye] 01:54:07 *** Compu_ [~Compu@98.0.16.177] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:54:29 *** Compu_ [~Compu@98.0.16.177] has joined #openttd 01:56:19 *** Compu_ is now known as Compu 01:56:22 *** Compu [~Compu@98.0.16.177] has quit [] 01:56:39 *** Compu [~Compu@98.0.16.177] has joined #openttd 02:22:51 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd have left some room in platform length for expansion, once the production ramps up from supplies 03:16:37 *** alask0ud [~Superdry^@181.169.232.64] has quit [Quit: Few women admit their age. Few men act theirs.] 03:48:05 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] 04:22:45 <Ethereal_Whisper> Eddi|zuHause, I ended up just starting a new game instead lol 04:22:54 <Ethereal_Whisper> Playing a different game with a friend at the moment though 04:52:59 *** supermop [~supermop@pool-100-37-117-73.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:56:45 *** Hiddenfunstuff [~Geth@y32.ip1.anvianet.fi] has joined #openttd 06:25:55 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@89.136.141.100] has joined #openttd 07:08:26 *** andythenorth_ [~andytheno@155.red-81-43-101.staticip.rima-tde.net] has joined #openttd 07:09:00 <andythenorth_> oftc let me back on \o/ 07:09:22 *** keoz [~keikoz@pha75-1-81-57-54-15.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 07:12:00 *** andythenorth_ [~andytheno@155.red-81-43-101.staticip.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:21:53 *** keoz [~keikoz@pha75-1-81-57-54-15.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.5] 07:30:47 *** andythenorth_ [~andytheno@155.red-81-43-101.staticip.rima-tde.net] has joined #openttd 07:33:36 *** andythenorth_ [~andytheno@155.red-81-43-101.staticip.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:45:49 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host144-174-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 07:46:00 <Wolf01> o/ 07:52:12 *** keoz [~keikoz@pha75-1-81-57-54-15.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 08:07:35 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-137-142.natnow.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Valete omnes] 08:26:05 *** JezK_ [~jez@2407:7800:400:107f:3db5:daca:8457:e66a] has quit [Quit: :q!] 08:27:05 <Ethereal_Whisper> o/ Wolf01 09:11:26 *** knoxy [~knoxy@2601:204:cc00:447e:296c:9f1a:93d2:b2b] has joined #openttd 09:14:13 *** Sova [~Sova@cable-89-216-123-190.static.sbb.rs] has joined #openttd 09:24:56 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:25:49 *** sla_ro|master2 [slamaster@89.136.141.100] has joined #openttd 09:29:01 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@89.136.141.100] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:30:53 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host7-115-dynamic.116-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 09:32:39 <Ethereal_Whisper> o/ Wolf01 09:32:44 <Wolf01> o/ 09:32:53 <Ethereal_Whisper> I'm playing a "blitz" type game 09:33:06 <Ethereal_Whisper> I put high density industries on a small map and am playing with a TL of 2 09:33:07 <Ethereal_Whisper> Lol 09:33:12 <Ethereal_Whisper> 150 trains in 1960, haha 09:33:22 <Wolf01> Nice 09:33:31 <Ethereal_Whisper> http://puu.sh/qK5pt/83e90d4f62.png and bullshit like this 09:33:51 <Ethereal_Whisper> Oooh I just noticed some unsignalled track haha 09:36:38 <V453000> max_trainz 09:36:58 <Ethereal_Whisper> I still like my "fork station" invention 09:37:08 <Ethereal_Whisper> Though I'm probably not the first person to come up with it 09:39:50 <V453000> can't tell until we see it :) 09:40:01 *** sla_ro|master2 [slamaster@89.136.141.100] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:40:11 <Ethereal_Whisper> http://puu.sh/qK6c7/b958f21f91.png 09:40:20 <Ethereal_Whisper> The main line "forks" around the station 09:40:46 <Ethereal_Whisper> In effect it's a very short side line (waiting bay for 1 train, 2 platforms, I use it for primary industry pickup stations) that's kind of an 09:40:51 <Wolf01> I usually I do it the other way, the station is split around the main line 09:40:52 <Ethereal_Whisper> island between the ML tracks 09:41:01 <Ethereal_Whisper> Oh now there's a thought 09:41:54 <Ethereal_Whisper> Wait, how would returning empty trains be able to choose between both available platforms then? 09:42:48 <Wolf01> Some diamond crosses before the entrances 09:43:06 <Ethereal_Whisper> Can you show me what you mean? 09:43:37 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.136.141.100] has joined #openttd 09:47:51 <Wolf01> http://imgur.com/h7ap0qZ 09:48:40 <Ethereal_Whisper> Oh, but then the empty trains cross the main line coming the other way =/ 09:48:53 <Wolf01> So? 09:52:00 <V453000> Wolf01 you heretic 09:52:10 <Wolf01> :D 09:56:47 <Ethereal_Whisper> BURN THE WITCH 10:09:06 *** Sova [~Sova@cable-89-216-123-190.static.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:13:35 <Ethereal_Whisper> http://puu.sh/qK7pn/8a032f7c9c.png max trains 10:13:40 <Ethereal_Whisper> Not even my busiest corridor lol 10:20:52 <Flygon> I was about to ask why your trains are going in reverse 10:21:00 <Flygon> Then I remembered that not everyone drives on the left 10:41:32 *** Sova [~Sova@cable-89-216-123-190.static.sbb.rs] has joined #openttd 10:41:46 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@46.239.220.130] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 11:04:40 *** knoxy [~knoxy@2601:204:cc00:447e:296c:9f1a:93d2:b2b] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:12:03 <Sova> With what usual train length do you guys usually play with? 11:14:30 <argoneus> good morning train friends 11:14:47 <argoneus> Sova: I roll a die 11:14:59 <Sova> between which values? :) 11:15:00 <Eddi|zuHause> something between 3 and 15, mostly 11:15:05 <Sova> holy crap 15 11:15:06 <argoneus> 3-7 11:15:36 <Sova> hmmm 11:15:45 <Sova> when you play 3 11:15:54 <Sova> how do you handle industries which have high production values 11:16:01 <Sova> like around 1k per month 11:16:01 *** andythenorth_ [~andytheno@155.red-81-43-101.staticip.rima-tde.net] has joined #openttd 11:16:06 <Eddi|zuHause> lots of trains 11:19:58 <Sova> thing is it seems to me that in this case I'd have to create huge stations 11:19:59 *** andythenorth_ [~andytheno@155.red-81-43-101.staticip.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:20:50 <Sova> and usually there is not enough space 11:21:20 <Sova> how many lanes does your typical station have for lets say a production of 1k per month? 11:21:42 <V453000> 1 11:21:43 <V453000> :) 11:21:45 <V453000> hello 11:21:58 <Sova> 1? :D 11:22:05 <V453000> also, isn't building a big network a good thing to do in the game? :) 11:22:12 <V453000> 1k mine won't need more than 1 track 11:22:18 <Sova> oh yes! 11:22:25 <Sova> a station with only one track? 11:22:27 <V453000> station should be fine with 2 platforms for a long time 11:22:32 <Sova> ah yes sorry 11:22:36 <Sova> i meant platforms 11:22:37 <V453000> 2nd one mainly for keeping a train load at all time 11:22:50 <Sova> so 2 is enough? 11:22:52 <V453000> 4 platforms if you really want to make sure 11:22:54 <V453000> likely it will be 11:23:06 <V453000> you just need to have the stream of trains constant enough, or provide overflows etc 11:23:08 <Sova> hmmm interesting, looks like I always overkill it then 11:23:34 <V453000> well depends on trains obviously 11:23:43 <V453000> if you have 1900s trains it probably doesn't get so simple 11:24:08 <Sova> well yeah, I like to start at 1920 but things pickup nicely later on 11:24:25 <Sova> I like that sense of progression :) 11:25:02 <V453000> sure, but at 1920 the mine probably won't produce that much :) 11:25:34 <Sova> well in some cases, specially in FIRS things can get pretty hectic early with supplies 11:25:55 <Sova> if you send them over to mines 11:26:04 <V453000> yeah, to some degree, sure 11:26:14 <V453000> it's certainly faster growth than vanilla 11:26:30 <Sova> vanilla is just nuts later on though 11:26:37 <Sova> 2k per month?? 11:26:49 <V453000> I personally find it very tetris like ... it's a scenario you can't win with reasonable network 11:27:02 <Sova> heh 11:27:02 <V453000> which is to some degree interesting 11:27:13 <V453000> but I like to load the Smaller Mines grf to reduce it 11:27:22 <V453000> so that you build a huge network with shitload of mines 11:27:24 <V453000> instead of just a few 11:27:41 <Sova> didn't even know that this grf existed 11:27:46 <Sova> I'll have to look into it 11:27:57 <V453000> it's really simple but really nice 11:28:08 <Sova> is this the one? - https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=73144 11:28:09 <V453000> one of the newer newgrfs ... Sylf wrote it :) 11:28:20 <V453000> yes, it's on bananas 11:28:47 <Sova> great, I'll definately look into it 11:29:19 <Sova> I'm guessing this will work with default industries only? 11:29:29 <Sova> no openx support? 11:30:25 <V453000> I think so 11:30:34 <V453000> I wouldn't expect it to work with opengfx+ industries 11:31:43 *** keoz [~keikoz@pha75-1-81-57-54-15.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.5] 12:03:40 <Sova> Let's say I have 2 mainlines that need to merge. How do you guys prio this? Just add block signals and call it a day? 12:04:36 <Wolf01> <Sova> With what usual train length do you guys usually play with? <- 5-10 12:05:10 <Sova> Hey Wolf01 12:05:13 <Sova> thanks 12:06:27 <Sova> When do you use TL10? 12:07:01 <Wolf01> Oh, totally random, but usually on long distance pax 12:07:15 <Sova> got it 12:10:11 <V453000> Sova: don't treat the priority like "this track is better than the other", but as a checking mechanism "is this track full, should I let trains join this track?" 12:11:04 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 12:13:11 <Sova> That makes sense 12:14:20 <V453000> so if you have a Side Line -> main line junction, it's simple. You pick from the main lines, give the side line all posisble choices. and prioritize ML. Simple. 12:14:32 <V453000> with ML x ML, you just give priority to lines which don't have choices 12:14:40 <V453000> OR you give all lines choices and you don't need any priorities 12:14:52 <Sova> aha! 12:14:57 <V453000> because the choice is made by some places clogging up and forcing trains elsewhere 12:15:03 <V453000> since they ahve the options 12:15:20 <V453000> have you seen this page? https://wiki.openttdcoop.org/Merging_Tracks 12:15:36 <Sova> indeed I have 12:16:46 <V453000> the most important thing to understand is this basically https://wiki.openttdcoop.org/File:Mergers_42innerOuter.png 12:17:23 <V453000> in fact you can array those mergers infinitely to get the amount of lines you want XD but it's generally not convenient 12:19:25 <Sova> If I'm correct, in the above picture we have only 2 lines that have a choice? 12:19:45 <V453000> yes 12:19:50 <Sova> and thusly they also have prio 12:19:51 <V453000> 2 have a choice and they merge onto the other ones 12:19:58 <Sova> oh now other wawy around 12:20:06 <Sova> the ones that don't have choice 12:20:07 <Sova> have pro 12:20:09 <Sova> prio 12:20:09 <V453000> yes 12:20:17 <V453000> because they can't divert traffic anywhere 12:20:25 <V453000> they don't detect which line is full or empty 12:20:32 <Sova> is it better to always provide choice for everything? 12:20:38 <V453000> trains from inside check which line is full(er), and go to the emptier one 12:21:00 <V453000> eh, it's an option and it's easier to keep track of it later in the game, but it's not necessary 12:22:47 <V453000> but it is a big space saver if you declare some lines to be non-choice 12:22:55 <V453000> for example if you have 4+4->6 12:22:59 <V453000> you make 6 tracks no choice 12:23:06 <V453000> and only make 2 choose from all the 6 12:23:16 <V453000> so the resulting merger is actually pretty small 12:23:34 <Sova> yeah 12:25:54 *** ElleKitty [~Elle@178-222-37-162.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #openttd 12:29:07 *** keoz [~keikoz@pha75-1-81-57-54-15.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 12:29:38 *** keoz [~keikoz@pha75-1-81-57-54-15.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [] 12:30:55 *** keoz [~keikoz@pha75-1-81-57-54-15.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 12:32:37 *** keoz_ [~keikoz@pha75-1-81-57-54-15.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 12:32:47 <V453000> the thing is that you don't just build things and leave them alone, you usually expand a lot 12:33:05 <Wolf01> https://www.flickr.com/photos/galaktek/25388766714/ nice and useful train 12:33:10 <V453000> which is why making all to all-ish is handy 12:33:22 *** keoz_ [~keikoz@pha75-1-81-57-54-15.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [] 12:33:33 <Flygon> <Sova> With what usual train length do you guys usually play with? 12:33:34 <Flygon> 50 12:33:47 <Flygon> <Sova> With what usual train length do you guys usually play with? 12:33:49 <Flygon> Er 12:33:55 <Flygon> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2651992/Art/Other/openttdbigboy48tiles.png 12:34:00 <Flygon> I CTRL+V failed :U 12:34:18 <V453000> congratulations you managed to click 96 times in depot 12:34:24 <Sova> 50 :) 12:34:36 <V453000> tracks don't even know how to signal, gg 12:34:54 <Sova> signals each 50 tiles :) 12:35:19 <V453000> ._. 12:35:24 <Wolf01> I don't place many signals too 12:35:34 <Sova> no but really how does this work? 12:35:34 <Flygon> V453000: The map had only one refinery 12:35:36 <Flygon> Seriously 12:35:58 <Flygon> So it actually became efficient to make smaller 7-20 tile long trains feed the 48 tile long monsters 12:36:07 <Sova> hahhaha 12:36:08 <Flygon> It would've been 64 tiles, but I physically ran out of space 12:36:40 <Flygon> Either way 12:36:49 <Flygon> It does justify the Big Boy in the 2CC set 12:36:59 <Flygon> In low-speed operations, no-less 12:38:27 <Sova> I don't really play 2cc as there are too many trains in that set for my taste and I use maybe 10% of them if even that many 12:39:16 <V453000> yep 12:40:10 <Flygon> xP It depends on the era 12:40:18 <Flygon> Pre-1900,I find I use almost all of them 12:40:31 <Flygon> 1920-1990... a lot simply aren't useful 12:40:46 <Flygon> Usually because the company is so big, it's not worth faffing over the cost/benefit ratios of individual locos 12:41:00 <Flygon> And it's easier to just standardize on specific models 12:41:05 <V453000> there is always one locomotive which is ultimately best 12:41:26 <Flygon> Exactly 12:41:40 <Flygon> Like, the Big Boy in the screenshot was an unusual case where I couldn't use a standard loco 12:41:42 <Flygon> Not the norm 12:42:08 <Flygon> A standard loco would've needed around 5-7 of them, cost more, run slower, and be a pita to autoreplace 12:42:34 <Sova> Couldn't you have used smaller trains? Only much more of them? :) 12:42:34 <Flygon> iirc, I eventually obsoleted the Big Boys in the 1970s with electric locos (once they caught up). Nothing else in the set had the TE required. 12:42:44 <Flygon> Nah 12:42:48 <Flygon> 1. That's not as cool 12:42:55 <Flygon> 2. It's too fussy to run 12:43:00 <Flygon> 3. Big Boys were cheaper 12:43:10 <Flygon> Because there was just one loco for such a massive load 12:43:23 <Flygon> And it made designing terminals easier 12:44:04 <V453000> cheaper is usually irrelevant considering the amount of money you have, and the ultra simple method how you make money in this game 12:44:18 <V453000> not as cool is great, but you need at least some reasonable reasons 12:44:54 <V453000> but yeah, bla bla, nuts, blabla, choices, blabla, gameplay 12:45:22 <Flygon> xP It WAS a reasonably reason! 12:45:32 <Flygon> It made the game eaiser to play :) 12:45:33 <Sova> reasonable reason :) 12:46:52 <Flygon> Tried to find more screenshots in my Dropbox 12:46:59 <Flygon> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2651992/Art/Other/zigzagoonshopping.jpg But all I found was a raccoon shopping instead 12:47:00 *** Xaroth [~Xaroth@00017153.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:47:14 *** Xaroth [~Xaroth@250-193-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has joined #openttd 12:47:16 <Sova> not sure what to think of that :) 12:48:05 <Flygon> Me neither 12:50:03 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] 12:51:03 *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has joined #openttd 12:51:39 *** keoz [~keikoz@pha75-1-81-57-54-15.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: keoz] 12:51:52 *** keoz [~keikoz@pha75-1-81-57-54-15.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 13:11:41 *** Samu [~oftc-webi@po1-84-91-250-188.netvisao.pt] has joined #openttd 13:11:52 <Samu> https://imageproxy.tt-forums.net/4de46883c528f72a1fe2163c4ed51d3e8c8e8338/687474703a2f2f692e696d6775722e636f6d2f556273794831772e706e67 13:12:28 <Samu> those horizontal and vertical routes for aircraft 13:13:04 <Samu> do aircraft get better profits if the routes are horizontal/vertical aligned, instead of diagonal? 13:13:18 <Samu> seems fishy, i got to test this 13:15:34 <Alkel_U3> Wolf01: handy train, reminded me of a movie :-) https://youtu.be/AQUtKIkri3w?t=29s 13:16:06 <Wolf01> XD 13:20:48 *** goodger [~goodger@185.83.217.70] has joined #openttd 13:22:00 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.136.141.100] has quit [] 13:25:15 <Samu> holy crap 13:25:27 <Samu> i hope this is fixable 13:27:31 <Samu> going from coordinates 993x20 to 993x220 (200 tiles distance) takes more time than going from coordinates 801x174 to 901x274 (200 tiles distance), using aircraft 13:27:54 <Samu> travel time 61 days vs 50 day 13:27:55 <Samu> s 13:29:13 <Samu> on the way back, travel time was 65 days vs 49 days 13:29:39 <Samu> it's confirmed then, horizontal/vertical aligned aircraft routes profit more 13:29:48 <Samu> because they travel faster 13:32:15 <Samu> should I report this finding as a bug, or is it known/intended? 13:43:50 <_dp_> how is 60 days faster than 50? 13:45:18 <Samu> the yearly income shows 13:45:49 <Samu> £29,269 for the 60 days aircraft vs £35,753 for the 50 days aircraft 13:46:36 <_dp_> so what is better? diagonals? that's expected 13:46:47 <Samu> no, vertical/horizontal 13:47:01 <Samu> https://imageproxy.tt-forums.net/4de46883c528f72a1fe2163c4ed51d3e8c8e8338/687474703a2f2f692e696d6775722e636f6d2f556273794831772e706e67 13:47:36 <_dp_> you said vertical is 60 days (993x20 to 993x220) 13:47:36 <Samu> that's nocab ai, he removes the less profitable routes from time to time, and i noticed the majority of routes he kept are vertical/horizontal 13:48:33 <_dp_> ah, you call it backwards, vertical on map is diagonal on tiles 13:49:07 <_dp_> yeah, that's pretty well-known, diagonal trains are better too 13:49:32 <Samu> really? seems unfair 13:50:03 <_dp_> there is no fair solution because rv can't go diagonal 13:50:21 <Wolf01> That's because of TT timey-wimey-wibbly-wobbly calculation of 2.5D proportions 13:50:46 <_dp_> so cargo is paid for manhattan distance instead of some else 13:51:41 *** keoz [~keikoz@pha75-1-81-57-54-15.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:53:32 <Samu> slow down vehicles when they're going vertically/horizontally? 13:53:35 <Samu> to compensate? 13:53:53 <Samu> even if it impacts road vehicles, it should be minimal 13:53:55 <_dp_> Samu, https://bugs.openttd.org/task/1063 13:57:00 <Samu> i see 13:57:16 <_dp_> and diagonal track are harder to build so it kinda balances it 13:57:30 <Samu> not for aircraft, they don't seem to care 13:58:09 <Samu> maybe the profit formula could be adjusted 13:58:11 <_dp_> aircrafts are broken anyway :p 13:58:20 <supermop_> yo 13:58:26 <Samu> income 13:59:42 <Samu> have the income formula take into account some sort of penalty for traveling vertically? hmm 14:00:23 <_dp_> Samu, you need to remember how each cargo was transported then 14:00:49 <Samu> i see 14:00:55 <Samu> not easy to deal with 14:01:54 <_dp_> hm, may not be that hard though as it only needs to remember amount of diagonal and total tiles... 14:04:57 <_dp_> if based on diagonal/total ratio may be reasonably fair, at least I don'see any problem yet 14:07:12 <Samu> a penalty for each type of vehicle on the income formula? 14:07:22 <Samu> adjusted differently? 14:07:59 <Samu> i dunno just giving out ideas 14:08:28 <_dp_> Samu, and what to do with transfers7 14:10:30 <_dp_> if rvs are paid more you just do transfer carousel after diagonal train unload 14:12:47 <Samu> i was thinking, if the train transfers it into a lorry station, have that penalty already applied 14:13:18 <Samu> a->b->c, a->b is train, apply train penalty when the cargo arrives at b 14:13:40 <Samu> b->c take the already penalized cargo then apply anothr penalty for road vehicle 14:13:51 <Samu> once it reaches c 14:15:12 <_dp_> Samu, payments are only calculated when cargo is accepted by consumer, transfer payments are purely virtual 14:15:40 <Samu> oh, then i don't know :( 14:18:16 <supermop_> i don't think it is unfair - every player faces the same situation 14:20:00 <supermop_> same as how if you want to build a route at a roughly 2:1 angle - you are better to build it in large staggered steps rather than steps shorter than train length - even though the latter 'looks' like its a smoother, more direct route 14:21:05 <supermop_> also a turn can be 'sharp' for a long train, but the same turn will have no speed penalty if the train is a bit shorter 14:21:56 <Samu> slowing down vehicles on vertical/horizontal tiles was my first idea, but you say it is affecting wagons 14:22:02 <supermop_> it is just the strange physics of the universe where TT exists 14:25:17 <Samu> hmm let me think 14:26:18 <Samu> let's say the penalty is 25%, a train going at 100 km/h won't really have all of his wagons on the vertical/horizontal tracks 14:27:13 <Samu> if the size of each carriage/engine is 0.5 and the train is sized 6.0 14:27:52 <Samu> penalty is based on the number of wagons that are currently on a vertical/horizontal track 14:28:23 <Samu> not always 25% then, but... varied, up to a max of 25% when all wagons are in fact in vertical/horizontal 14:28:56 <Samu> how to get the final result, i just dont know :( 14:29:31 <Wolf01> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJ56qYod0gs :o 14:30:00 <Samu> 6/0,5 = 12, right? 14:30:37 <Samu> 25/12 = 2,0833 14:31:16 <Samu> each wagon/engine sized 0,5 that enters a vertical/horizontal track slows down the whole train by 2,0833% 14:32:21 <Samu> 100 km/h > 98 km/h > 96 km/h > etc... > 75 km/h 14:33:00 <Samu> if one of the engines/wagon that was going vertically/horizontally suddenly goes diagonal, then up the speed by that same % 14:33:11 <Samu> instantly, no acceleration 14:34:16 <Samu> so in essence, the goal is to achieve parity with pure diagonal travelling days 14:34:41 <Samu> turn 50 days into 60 days travel time 14:34:48 <Samu> dunno how much of a penalty that is 14:40:17 <Samu> the speed is applied to the entire train, not individually 14:40:30 <Samu> would that avoid the overlapping issue? 14:40:59 <Wolf01> But I expect a train travelling always at the same speed on a straight track 14:42:23 <Samu> it would still display 100 km/h, but wouldn't really be going at 100 km/h 14:43:55 <Samu> how noticeable would that be for the player obvserving? i don't really know 14:45:18 <Samu> probably noticeable on very short trains, but not so much on long trains 14:56:02 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd 14:56:05 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 14:56:09 <Wolf01> o/ 14:58:10 <Alberth> hi hi 15:00:26 *** Sova [~Sova@cable-89-216-123-190.static.sbb.rs] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:04:54 <Wolf01> https://youtu.be/HR5dEc5VeNw?t=956 ha! They didn't change the entire wheels but only the external ring 15:06:22 <Samu> i'm trying that patch there, see what exactly happens 15:06:23 <Samu> https://bugs.openttd.org/task/1063 15:18:50 *** Gja [~Martin@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #openttd 15:23:24 *** srhnsn [~srhnsn@p2003006A6C198E005C2D0B2DB9C15911.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 15:27:55 <Alberth> you can just see it in the game 15:28:26 <Alberth> compare length of the diagonal wagon vs the non-diagonal length 15:28:42 <Alberth> NUTS shows it very clearly 15:29:45 <Alberth> #6121 is related :) 15:31:18 *** firc72446298 [~rept@185.57.28.4] has joined #openttd 15:35:41 *** firc72446298 [~rept@185.57.28.4] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:36:05 *** firc7899197b [~rept@185.57.28.4] has joined #openttd 15:41:21 *** andythenorth_ [~andytheno@155.red-81-43-101.staticip.rima-tde.net] has joined #openttd 15:41:56 <Alberth> o/ 15:42:18 <Wolf01> o/ 15:42:30 <andythenorth_> Composited vehicles :o 15:42:32 <supermop_> boat man 15:42:49 <andythenorth_> All my pixa work is for nothing :p 15:42:50 *** firc7899197b [~rept@185.57.28.4] has quit [Quit: firc7899197b] 15:43:06 *** TheMask96 [martijn@sloth.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:43:09 *** rept [~rept@185.57.28.4] has joined #openttd 15:47:44 *** TheMask96 [martijn@greed.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 15:49:18 *** andythenorth_ [~andytheno@155.red-81-43-101.staticip.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:49:24 *** rept [~rept@185.57.28.4] has quit [Quit: rept] 15:49:42 *** rept [~rept@185.57.28.4] has joined #openttd 15:50:51 *** rept [~rept@185.57.28.4] has quit [] 15:50:53 *** andythenorth_ [~andytheno@155.red-81-43-101.staticip.rima-tde.net] has joined #openttd 15:51:08 *** rept [~rept@185.57.28.4] has joined #openttd 15:51:15 <andythenorth_> Unstable connection is unstable 15:53:07 <Samu> has there been a patch about speed penalty? 15:54:03 *** rept [~rept@185.57.28.4] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:54:20 <Samu> penalize current vehicle speed when they're on + tracks? 15:54:27 <Samu> vertical/horizontal 15:55:30 <Samu> why do you say diagonal? 15:55:42 <andythenorth_> 'Buy menu contains too many vehicles' <- overstated problem? 15:56:04 <Alberth> for fish/squid? definitely 15:56:16 * andythenorth_ seeking schema / theme for ships 15:56:52 <Alberth> well, compared to default ships, it is large :p 15:57:03 <andythenorth_> for RVs, finding right 'shape' for set took many iterations 15:57:04 <Samu> and i dunno what the penalty should be, how to calculate it 15:57:08 <Alberth> or rather, default ships is ridiculously small :p 15:58:08 <andythenorth_> 'Limited vehicles' works for trains where player can arrange consist as needed 15:58:29 <andythenorth_> Works for airplanes fine, due to limited application 15:58:45 <andythenorth_> RVs, not so much 15:59:06 <andythenorth_> Ships, I'm not sure small buy menu works at all 15:59:44 <Samu> "the speed of a train on a diagonal is about 0.707v horizontal and vertical where v is its nominal speed when travelling orthogonally." is this official? 16:00:17 <Alberth> it is in the real world, due to geometry 16:00:32 <Samu> dont care about real world 16:00:37 <Samu> what about openttd? 16:00:40 <Alberth> based on distance of two opposite corner 16:01:07 <andythenorth_> Is that 0.5 * root 2? 16:01:24 <Alberth> yep 16:01:34 <andythenorth_> Figures 16:01:40 <Alberth> about 1.4 / 2 16:02:18 <Alberth> too long buy menu for your road hog with all cargoes? 16:02:28 <andythenorth_> Not imho 16:03:03 <andythenorth_> Assuming you only look at depot buy menu, not 'available vehicles' 16:03:16 <andythenorth_> Due to tram/street split 16:04:20 <Samu> t.t 16:04:34 * andythenorth_ inclined to supply a lot of smaller ship sizes, and only a few large sizes 16:05:47 <Samu> i'm gonna base myself on travel time and try to calculate the penalty 16:05:51 <Samu> brb 16:06:00 <andythenorth_> 30 pax vs 90 pax might be a useful option, but 450 or 600 are both about same 16:06:22 <andythenorth_> precision matters less with routes that need larger vehicles? 16:07:58 * andythenorth_ wonders about watertypes :p 16:10:34 <Alberth> we have that, right? :) 16:11:14 <andythenorth_> in a slightly useless way yes :) 16:11:18 <Alberth> I agree with "more and less precise" 16:11:45 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.136.141.100] has joined #openttd 16:11:51 <Alberth> basically you add sufficient to fill required transport capacity 16:12:06 <andythenorth_> Canal vs sea is amongst the least useful newgrf ideas :) 16:12:22 <Alberth> where the main benefit of a large ship is reduced running cost, probably 16:12:48 <andythenorth_> I think the main benefit of larger ships is eye candy 16:13:02 <andythenorth_> Same as long trains, they're nice to watch 16:13:11 <andythenorth_> ;) 16:13:14 <Alberth> also a good point :) 16:13:44 <Alberth> I am just too busy with cargo flow :p 16:13:52 <andythenorth_> :p 16:14:48 <Alberth> what other water types are you considering? 16:15:10 <andythenorth_> I have never discovered any tbh 16:15:30 <andythenorth_> Sea vs canal isn't types really 16:15:36 <Alberth> ha, a single water type "water" thus :p 16:15:40 <andythenorth_> Just makes slow vehicles slower 16:16:08 <Alberth> it could force a transfer point 16:16:17 <andythenorth_> sea ships can't be prevented from canals or vice versa, so it's not interesting currently 16:16:21 <Alberth> but maybe tmwftlb 16:16:35 *** sim-al2 is now known as Guest669 16:16:36 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@108-221-157-231.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 16:16:59 <Alberth> 1km/h for a sea ship at a canal is quiteeffective :p 16:17:06 <andythenorth_> Different docks would force it 16:17:12 <Wolf01> Going out for dinner. Bye 16:17:15 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 16:17:19 <andythenorth_> Crippling the speed is just irritating :) 16:17:29 <Alberth> yeah, indeed 16:17:40 <andythenorth_> Ban sea ships from locks? 16:17:48 <andythenorth_> Probably an easy patch 16:18:41 <Alberth> and then? 16:18:42 <andythenorth_> Watertypes discussion has never so far produced worthwhile idea :D 16:18:58 <andythenorth_> yeah, I have nothing 16:19:57 <Alberth> main achievement would be another flag expressing realism :p 16:20:36 *** Guest669 [~sim-al2@108-221-157-231.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:20:39 <Alberth> yeah, not going anywhere today with water types :) 16:20:50 <andythenorth_> Size at dock? 16:21:06 <andythenorth_> Docks get n units of ship capacity? 16:21:15 <andythenorth_> Each ship takes x units? 16:21:53 <Alberth> so limit capacity of a dock? 16:22:08 <Alberth> or is n and x constant? 16:22:25 <Alberth> which basically bans some ships 16:22:27 <Samu> loading capacity of a dock 16:22:36 <andythenorth_> X constant per ship type 16:23:02 <Samu> load x units of cargo per interval 16:23:32 <Alberth> no station does that currenrtly 16:23:55 <Samu> suppose there's 10 ships loading and suddenly 500 cargo appears at the dock 16:24:18 <Alberth> it makes more sense to make ships take room at a dock 16:24:23 <andythenorth_> Equivalent to drive-through RV stops handling of vehicle lenght 16:24:28 <andythenorth_> Yes 16:24:28 <Samu> instead of having all ships pick the cargo, have only 1 ship pick x per interval 16:24:45 <andythenorth_> Size = better ide 16:24:52 <andythenorth_> Idea* 16:25:23 <Samu> 10 ships, each with 50 capacity 16:25:55 <andythenorth_> Alberth so a dock might load 3 small ships or one large one 16:26:11 <Alberth> something like that 16:26:16 <Samu> :( guess i'm talking about a different idea 16:26:21 <Samu> sorry 16:26:26 <Alberth> but pretty soon you'll want multi-docks then 16:27:05 <Alberth> Samu: limiting load capacity is not in the game currently, it's a bit weird to add it to ship docks, and not to trains/RVs/Aircraft 16:27:51 <Alberth> the latter have limits due to size of the vehicle, or limited number of places for loading 16:28:13 <Alberth> so it makes more sense to add the latter kind of limit also to ship docks 16:28:36 <andythenorth_> Multi-docks is entailed in this idea :D 16:28:46 <andythenorth_> I snuck it in :p 16:29:10 <Alberth> I think it's the inevitable next question 16:29:33 <Alberth> if you limit capacity, you want more platforms 16:30:20 <Samu> 1 ship per platform? 16:30:35 *** Flygon_ [~Flygon@114-198-87-199.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #openttd 16:30:55 <andythenorth_> Build docks in tiles like RV stops 16:30:57 <Samu> 1 dock, 3 platforms? 16:30:59 <Alberth> currently you cannot have several docks with the same station afaik 16:31:07 <andythenorth_> One ship per water side 16:31:38 <andythenorth_> Large ships might need three or four tiles in a contiguous line 16:31:54 <Samu> loading capacity for stations seems like an interesting idea though 16:32:02 <andythenorth_> Probably tmwtflb 16:32:06 <andythenorth_> But eh 16:33:13 <Samu> i'm currently doing a test with road vehicles, and there's something odd with travel times 16:33:33 <Samu> north to south, on the same road in a zig-zag shape, took 126 days 16:33:39 <Samu> south to north, took 130 days 16:33:45 <Samu> drive on right 16:34:06 <Samu> is this a bug, am i missing something? 16:34:21 <andythenorth_> Headwind? 16:34:29 <andythenorth_> From north? 16:35:07 <Samu> screenshot http://imgur.com/a/RgjJB 16:35:15 <Samu> road vehicle 2 16:35:36 <Samu> going north takes more time than going south 16:35:41 <Samu> why's that 16:37:34 *** Flygon [~Flygon@210-84-33-145.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:38:22 *** frosch123 [~frosch@00013ce7.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 16:39:44 <andythenorth_> Quak 16:39:52 <frosch123> hoi 16:40:10 <Samu> headwind what is that? 16:42:13 <supermop_> andythenorth_: choppy water vs smooth harbour? 16:42:34 <Samu> just tried with original acceleration model 16:42:44 <andythenorth_> ? o_O 16:42:45 <Samu> 130 days going south, 133 days going north 16:42:49 <andythenorth_> Supermop 16:43:01 <Samu> the problem is in the track itself? 16:43:23 <supermop_> shallow submerged rocks and sandbars that only dingies can traverse 16:44:17 <Alberth> Samu: swap direction of the vehicles 16:44:33 <Alberth> if the track is the problem, you'll get the same result 16:44:50 <Alberth> if direction is the problem, you'll get different results 16:45:06 <Samu> ok, gonna try 16:45:19 <Alberth> if both are a problem, I don't know :) 16:45:20 <andythenorth_> Biab 16:45:31 <supermop_> same, lunch 16:45:31 <Alberth> bye for now 16:48:18 *** andythenorth_ [~andytheno@155.red-81-43-101.staticip.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:49:12 <Samu> i get a different, yet similar result 16:49:27 <Samu> north to south 130 days 16:49:31 <Samu> south to north 126 days 16:50:32 <Samu> going north now takes less time, the situation reversed 16:51:07 <V453000> frosch123: how does the sorting of layers for layered vehicles work? Can I for example have layers ABCD show as ABCD in one train view, and when reversed have the layering as ABDC ? 16:51:57 <frosch123> the grf defines the order 16:52:19 <frosch123> chaning the order is essentialy swapping lines in a switch 16:53:45 <frosch123> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/puyzaw735 <- that's my testgrf 16:56:06 <V453000> right 16:56:17 <V453000> but can I change that for the same vehicle, just different rotations? 16:56:30 <frosch123> there is a direction variable 16:56:36 <V453000> nice :D 16:56:45 <frosch123> first switch on "direction", then switch on "layer" 16:56:54 <V453000> yeah 16:56:55 <V453000> cool 16:57:03 <V453000> just one essential thing I thought of :) 16:58:00 <frosch123> maybe semi-trailer rv can make use of that 17:04:52 *** andythenorth_ [~andytheno@155.red-81-43-101.staticip.rima-tde.net] has joined #openttd 17:07:39 *** andythenorth_ [~andytheno@155.red-81-43-101.staticip.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:07:56 *** aard [~aard@108.134.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has joined #openttd 17:15:05 <Samu> i'm getting an approximate 66% slower or 50% faster 17:15:09 <Samu> for the penalty 17:15:21 <Samu> using trains 17:16:28 <Samu> if the distance is the same 17:16:55 <Samu> the train going diagonal is 66% slower than the train going vertical 17:17:02 <Samu> erm 33% 17:17:04 <Samu> sorry 17:17:17 <Samu> it travels at 66% of the speed of the other that is 17:17:28 <Samu> bah i suck at math 17:17:49 <Samu> 296/443 or 443/296 17:18:21 <Samu> 296/443 = 0,6681715575620767 17:18:38 <Samu> 443/296 = 1,496621621621622 17:18:53 <V453000> frosch123: if you place 2 or more containers on a flatbed, you need container A be on top in 1 view, container B in the other 17:19:03 <V453000> I think it's super common to be necessary 17:20:28 <Samu> help me at math. if I want the train that took 296 days to travel to take 443 days instead, I multiply it by 0,66 or by 1.50? 17:20:58 <Samu> 1.5 17:21:40 <frosch123> is that a valid use case though? 17:21:47 <frosch123> you cannot change the position of the sprites 17:21:57 <Samu> let me try a max speed, it's nice that openttd has the option to limit speeds 17:22:02 <frosch123> so you need different sprites for the two containers 17:22:24 <frosch123> so, i would think loading stages are still complete sprites 17:22:25 *** Gja [~Martin@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 17:22:35 <frosch123> and not an add-on to the previous loading stage 17:22:49 <frosch123> btw. i limit it currently to maximum 4 sprites per articulated part 17:22:58 <frosch123> just to prevent newgrfs from getting greedy :) 17:24:46 <Samu> awesome, i got it right! 17:25:22 <Samu> the penalty is bigger than i thought 17:26:58 <Samu> a train moving at 64 km/h needs to divide it by 1.50 17:27:09 <Samu> 43 km/h got it right where I wanted 17:27:19 <Samu> took 443 days at 43 km/h 17:30:08 <Samu> a train moving at 100 km/h would be moving at 66.67 km/h 17:30:30 <Samu> looks quite a sharp penalty 17:31:01 <Samu> but it achieves time travel parity 17:31:24 <planetmaker> 4 sprites are enough for everyone ;) 17:32:35 *** Rebecca [~rebecca@185.ip-91-134-138.eu] has joined #openttd 17:33:09 * Rebecca looks around 17:33:22 <frosch123> bo! 17:33:24 <Alberth> nobody here :) 17:35:45 * Rebecca says hello 17:37:07 <NGC3982> I'm having the worst issues with going back and forth between ottd and citites skylines 17:37:24 <frosch123> easy, just stay with ottd 17:37:33 <NGC3982> I'm always confused by the fact that wasd doesn't do anything. :-p 17:38:53 * Rebecca wonders 17:38:53 <Alkel_U3> worse - it does different stuff. And yeah, I deal with that, too, occasionaly :-) 17:39:42 <Alberth> Rebecca: it's ok to just talk :) 17:39:53 <NGC3982> :-P 17:39:59 <Rebecca> Has anyone gotten OpenTTD to work with Native Client? 17:40:11 <NGC3982> This channel must be pro-skylines, i guess. 17:40:19 * Rebecca has a question tho ^ ..... 17:40:23 <Alberth> euhm, what's a Native Client ? 17:40:36 <Rebecca> https://developer.chrome.com/native-client 17:40:56 <Rebecca> It's a way to run apps like OpenTTD on Chrome-based devices. 17:41:09 <Alberth> ah, right 17:41:19 <Alkel_U3> NGC3982: kinda, but mostly Factorio :D 17:41:27 <Alberth> no idea, you're the first that I see mentioning it :) 17:41:36 * Rebecca nods 17:41:51 <Rebecca> I found a few old logs of Hexxeh getting somewhere. 17:41:55 <Alkel_U3> oh, than I mistook it for some other channel elswhere 17:42:09 <Alberth> which is not promising in finding people that have it running :) 17:42:13 *** andythenorth_ [~andytheno@155.red-81-43-101.staticip.rima-tde.net] has joined #openttd 17:42:29 <Alberth> you could post at tt-forums, to find other people, perhaps 17:42:33 * andythenorth_ needs to pin down some ship capacities 17:42:37 <Alberth> bigger audience than here 17:42:49 * Rebecca nods 17:42:50 <Rebecca> http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd/link/1323366805#1323366805 17:43:00 <Rebecca> ^ From there to the end of the page. 17:43:22 <Alberth> @seen Hexxeh 17:43:22 <DorpsGek> Alberth: Hexxeh was last seen in #openttd 4 years, 16 weeks, 5 days, 0 hours, 43 minutes, and 5 seconds ago: <Hexxeh> ah, thought the title screen stuff was music rather than sfx, that's okay 17:43:40 <Alberth> he didn't say much lately :) 17:44:38 <NGC3982> Alkel_U3: Factorio is nice. I have yet to complete the tutorial, tho. 17:44:51 <NGC3982> Is it "though" in english, and "tho" in american? 17:44:53 <frosch123> Rebecca: there is a javascript port of sdl and openttd via emscripten 17:46:46 <Rebecca> NGC3982, "though" == "tho" 17:47:15 <Rebecca> The one is a shortened version of the other. 17:47:17 <Alkel_U3> NGC3982: when you're finished with that (estimating 80 - 200 h), move onto Dwarf Fortress :P 17:47:32 <NGC3982> Alkel_U3: Oh my. 17:47:42 <andythenorth_> For pax ships, seems that 30-40 pax is always a good entry point 17:47:47 <Rebecca> frosch123, SDL is ported to Native Client. 17:47:59 <Alkel_U3> hm, probably more if I take mods into account 17:48:37 <Rebecca> I had a few changes that I had to make for it to compile, though. 17:48:49 <Rebecca> *There were a few changes 17:49:25 <Samu> what is the equivalent track type for aircraft? is it like rails? 17:49:39 <Samu> where in the tile do they travel? 17:50:53 <andythenorth_> 30, 90, 180, 360, 720? 17:53:10 <Alberth> aircraft don't have tracks, they fly in one of 8 directions towards the next point 17:54:02 <Alberth> andythenorth_: alll multiples of 30 by design? 17:55:20 <Alberth> I'd just do 30 or so, like 30, 120, 720 17:56:16 <frosch123> s/30/3/ ? 17:56:37 <Alberth> unless you want a lot of different ships 17:56:45 <Samu> alberth, about the road vehicle travel time issue, i tried a max speed of 40 km/h for all different buses 17:56:53 <Alberth> frosch123: haha, yes indeed :) 17:56:58 <Samu> oops all different routes, not buses 17:57:04 <Samu> one route is a pure straight line 17:57:34 <Samu> the other is zig-zag, and the other is, instead of a zig-zag, it's 2 straight lines with only a curve 17:58:11 <Samu> they all got 141 days for travel time, except zig-zag direction south-north with drive on right 17:58:15 <Samu> got 135 17:58:25 <Samu> I suppose the problem is there 17:58:40 <Samu> north-south got 141 days 17:59:24 <Alberth> sounds weird indeed 18:00:03 <Alberth> maybe an off-by-one error? 18:00:19 <Alberth> although 6 days is a lot 18:00:40 <Samu> gah typo, north-south got 135 days, south-north got 141 days, my bad 18:01:12 <Alberth> how many corners does it have 18:01:13 <Alberth> ? 18:01:24 <Samu> hmm the entirety of it 18:01:52 <Alberth> tile positions? 18:02:54 <Samu> sec, i'll give u savegame 18:02:54 <Alberth> @calc 6*72 18:02:54 <DorpsGek> Alberth: 432 18:03:10 <Alberth> map of 1000x1000? 18:03:26 <Samu> ah no, distance is 200 tiles i think 18:03:27 <Alberth> or 512x512? 18:03:32 <Samu> 1024x1024 18:03:53 <Alberth> use the '?' tool to query position of both end points 18:04:02 <andythenorth_> Alberth FISH has too many sizes, Squid maybe not enough 18:04:02 <andythenorth_> Bbl 18:04:38 <V453000> frosch123: I wanted to do something wtf with 5 layers but I will humbly accept 4 :P 18:04:44 <V453000> will work 18:04:52 <Samu> https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ah9vX-Q9n7IjiiqXQDrHDYD8vIzu savegame 18:04:58 <Alberth> andythenorth_: doubling the previous size can be easily done with buying a second ship 18:05:13 <Samu> 901x274x1 station at south 18:05:22 <frosch123> V453000: it's an arbitrary limit 18:05:25 <Alberth> ugh 1drive :( 18:05:27 <Samu> 800x175x1 station at north 18:05:53 <Samu> i tried both at 801x174x1 and then 800x175x1, no difference 18:06:00 <Alberth> ah, so about 100 in each direction 18:06:18 <frosch123> ottd currently resolves all the sprites of the vehicles all the times, so i just want to prevent grfs going nuts with cpu power :p 18:06:50 <Samu> does the link work? 18:06:55 *** andythenorth_ [~andytheno@155.red-81-43-101.staticip.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:07:25 <Alberth> Samu: I don't even try, that site uses a zillion other sites with all kinds of scripts 18:07:38 <Samu> oh ok,i post on the forum 18:07:57 <Alberth> but you gave the positions 18:08:32 <Alberth> I just wanted a sort of indication of the road length 18:08:50 <V453000> frosch123: I think 4 is fine, I wanted something really stupid 18:09:10 <V453000> 8 would be really awesome but 4 works for vast majority of cases probably 18:09:23 <Samu> https://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=194301 18:09:30 *** andythenorth_ [~andytheno@155.red-81-43-101.staticip.rima-tde.net] has joined #openttd 18:10:34 <Alberth> there should be a difference between position 800 and 801, but you can't measure it by watching, probably 18:11:00 <Alberth> if 100 tiles is 6 days, 1 tile is 6/100 of a day 18:11:11 <Alberth> which is around 5 ticks 18:11:46 <Alberth> not something you can see very well 18:12:10 <supermop_> ok 18:12:17 <supermop_> yo andythenorth_ 18:12:33 *** andythenorth_ [~andytheno@155.red-81-43-101.staticip.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:12:56 <Samu> i got another idea 18:13:24 <Samu> i put 2 buses starting at the same time, one goes north, the other goes south, will see who arrives at the opposite station first 18:13:35 <Samu> both limited to 40 km/h 18:16:43 <supermop_> well he's gone 18:16:53 <Samu> north-south bus arrived first 18:17:06 <supermop_> but one way to make bigger ships more interesting would be multiple holds 18:17:29 <Alberth> yep, but that's an openttd engine limitation 18:17:31 <Samu> south-north bus is about 6 tiles away from reaching north station, it's really noticeable 18:18:09 <supermop_> currently if i can have 2x 300t ship or 1x600t, the 2x 300t has the flexibility of holding two cargoes, the 600t has no advantage 18:18:10 <Alberth> same cargo problem exists with aircraft, to a lesser extend 18:18:30 <Samu> http://imgur.com/a/flJPD 18:18:32 <Alberth> and Rvs to an even lessier extent :p 18:18:35 <Samu> that's the difference 18:18:41 <supermop_> aircraft can sort of hack it with cargo in shadow 18:19:10 <supermop_> aircraft, the big plane has an advantage in landing pattern time 18:19:48 <Alberth> Samu: yep, you'd expect the same result, which thus indeed happens 18:20:18 <Alberth> supermop_: they do? 18:20:26 <supermop_> one 300 seat plane has a set time to approach, land, and taxi, 18:20:42 <supermop_> 3x 100 seat planes have to do that same time per each 18:21:08 <supermop_> so there is a tradeoff in efficiency vs granularity 18:21:16 <supermop_> with ships 18:21:16 <Alberth> oh, better throughput, yes 18:21:43 <Alberth> not with ships, as they move completely independently 18:21:45 <supermop_> 3 100t ships can overlap the same tile if you want them to 18:21:45 <Samu> is it fixable? 18:22:12 <Samu> problem appears to be with only 1 of the directions, as per the other comparison 18:22:29 <supermop_> so more small ships gives you the increased granularity but no loss in efficiency (other than cpu cost of pathfinder) 18:22:30 <Samu> north - south is too fast, with drive on right 18:22:33 <Alberth> Samu: to answer that you need to know the cause dirst 18:22:57 <Alberth> *first 18:23:24 <Samu> in the savegame i gave u, you can see the other buses got the same time of 141 in every direction, only exception was that one north-south with 135 days 18:23:36 <Samu> i guess that's where the problem is 18:23:47 <supermop_> if you have a good enough cpu, ideally you would have 1000s of little jet skis carrying 1t each 18:24:27 *** JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc80661-stap13-2-0-cust817.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 18:24:48 <supermop_> ships are super easy to timetable too, so with small ships just keep adding more as demand increases 18:26:13 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18355.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 18:27:55 <supermop_> also, if you want to always have one ship loading, easy way is to have one extra ship timetabled, waiting for the next to arrive. if i have a 120 day round trip, I could have one 300t ship every 30 days, and buy 5, with an extra 30 days wait and the loading dock 18:28:55 <supermop_> with 100t ships, i can have one every 10 days, so buy 13 with an extra 10 days wait 18:29:48 <supermop_> in the latter case I have all of the same advantages, but only 100t of slack capacity instead of 300t 18:30:31 <supermop_> and balancing with purchase or running cost alone is probably too boring or negligible to be worth it 18:31:10 <supermop_> as andy said, the only reason to use the big boat is that it looks cool 18:32:04 <Samu> haven't tested ships, but i expect the penalty is also current speed/1.5 18:33:02 <supermop_> which is a perfectly fair reason to be honest. I am fine with ships as is, but if andy wants ideas to make them more interesting, maybe that is where to explore 18:33:22 <Samu> brb creating a ship sceratio 18:33:25 <Samu> scenario 18:36:04 <Alberth> andy is always improving things :) 18:37:43 <supermop_> Alberth: sometimes i think it might be best not to stir up extra ideas with him 18:38:18 <Alberth> not sure that helps, he seems to have sufficient ideas of his own :) 18:45:56 <Samu> 169/113 = 18:46:04 <Samu> 1,4955 18:46:14 <Samu> well, same penalty for ships, 1,5 18:46:37 <Samu> aircraft is not easy to test :( 18:47:30 <Samu> how would I test them :( 18:47:40 <Samu> need ideas 18:48:30 <Samu> already tested road vehicles, trains and ships 18:48:36 <Samu> road vehicles need no penalty 18:48:50 <Samu> trains and ships will share the same penalty 18:49:05 <Samu> aircraft... i dunno, but it needs a penalty, which one I don't know how to calculate it 18:50:15 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~farci@i59F6C941.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 18:51:04 <Samu> what is the airport type that has the least amount of running around 18:51:11 <Samu> heliport? 18:51:42 <Samu> gonna check heliport 18:52:54 *** FLHerne [~flh@cpc4-papw5-2-0-cust175.5-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 18:56:02 <Samu> yeah seems heliport is good 18:56:05 <Samu> let's see results 18:59:50 <Samu> 77/53 19:00:03 <Samu> 1,45 19:00:11 <Samu> hmm.. different penalty for aircraft? 19:01:17 <Samu> i may need a longer route 19:01:21 <Samu> gonna retry 19:05:00 *** gelignite [~gelignite@x4e310e96.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 19:06:25 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.136.141.100] has quit [] 19:07:15 *** Webster has joined #openttd 19:08:00 <Samu> 122-125 days range vs 180-181 days range 19:08:15 <Samu> this is strange 19:08:20 <frosch123> hoi webster 19:08:32 *** glx has joined #openttd 19:08:32 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 19:09:07 <Samu> seems like aircraft travel faster when going south? 3 days difference 19:09:32 <Samu> but it's not practical to test aircraft, can't seem to get a good value 19:09:47 <Samu> seems the penalty is around 1,44-1,48 range 19:10:37 <frosch123> SpComb: we have a new bot, can you send me the logs somehow? 19:13:36 <Rubidium> Samu: how did you calculate that? 19:14:30 <Rubidium> because if you count from departure to arrival, you have to account for the place in the holding pattern the plane gets 19:14:59 <Rubidium> and in some cases it basically means straight to landing and in other cases it means having to make almost a whole loop 19:15:58 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd 19:16:26 <frosch123> @calc 5 19:16:26 <Webster> frosch123: 5 19:16:26 <DorpsGek> frosch123: 5 19:16:38 * andythenorth_ ponders sprite compositing 19:17:08 <andythenorth_> Frosch123 is there a mask layer? o_O 19:17:08 *** JacobD88 has quit IRC 19:17:38 <frosch123> what is that? 19:18:08 <frosch123> https://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/vehstack_screenshot.png <- did you see that? 19:22:40 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 19:23:26 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd 19:23:57 <KenjiE20> @calc 5 19:23:57 <Webster> KenjiE20: 5 19:23:57 <DorpsGek> KenjiE20: 5 19:24:00 <KenjiE20> -.- 19:24:12 <andythenorth_> Frosch123 saw the picture ;) 19:24:35 *** JacobD88 has joined #openttd 19:24:43 <supermop_> nice 19:25:08 <KenjiE20> frosch123: try an @calc, might be just cause I am admin 19:25:25 <frosch123> @calc 123 19:25:25 <DorpsGek> frosch123: 123 19:25:37 <KenjiE20> yep, cool 19:26:07 <andythenorth_> Mask layer would AND the pixels below, usually it's a 1 bit image 19:26:26 <frosch123> andythenorth_: i guess just draw another layer over it 19:26:31 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 19:26:38 <frosch123> vehicle underlay, cargo, vehicle overlay 19:27:06 <frosch123> just like tunnel in ottd 19:27:30 <andythenorth_> Actually there's no need for mask, I am daft :p 19:27:47 *** Gja has joined #openttd 19:27:49 <andythenorth_> We already have blue to knock pixels out from bg 19:29:01 <frosch123> in 32bpp you can use the alpha channel to make a color gradient between 1cc and 2cc 19:29:03 <andythenorth_> Although I use masks for more than that in Hog 19:29:37 <frosch123> (will likely look stupid though :p) 19:30:01 <andythenorth_> I draw one layer for vehicle, then use mask to selectively copy some of it for overlay 19:32:36 <andythenorth_> Layered vehicles is a nice feature, but I might stick to pre-compositing :) 19:32:43 <Ethereal_Whisper> I just ordered a new contact lens. RIP my bank account balance. 19:33:12 <supermop_> one lens? 19:33:21 <frosch123> get a pair at least 19:33:26 <supermop_> how expensive is this lens 19:33:47 <supermop_> frosch123: i guess they need to save up for the other lens 19:35:16 <frosch123> andythenorth_: think about cargo recoloring 19:35:46 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 19:36:44 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd 19:37:36 <andythenorth_> Frosch123 I know :) 19:38:28 <andythenorth_> it's a neat feature 19:41:14 <supermop_> V453000: why don't v ray materials have an inherent scale? 19:41:26 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 19:41:30 <V453000> material scale? 19:41:32 <V453000> wut 19:42:37 <supermop_> yeah why not 19:42:59 <V453000> idk it's usually defined by the UV mapping which tends to be different for each object 19:43:01 <supermop_> if i have a bricks material, why aren't the bricks always 200mm long 19:43:10 <supermop_> yeah that's bullshit 19:43:11 <V453000> well they can be in max at least I think 19:43:23 <V453000> in max you can have real world scale of maps iirc 19:43:25 <V453000> never tried though 19:43:27 <supermop_> i have to adjust mapping individually for each wall 19:43:41 <V453000> well in max you can select all walls and set 1 mapping 19:43:48 <supermop_> unless there is something im missing 19:44:05 <V453000> depends on your software 19:44:14 <V453000> for example default UVs for blender don't exist 19:44:25 <V453000> in max default UVs are 1 polygon = 1 UV space 19:44:41 <Samu> gonna try different distances now 19:44:58 <supermop_> my plaster has pixels about 1cm square on big walls, and looks like plaster on small walls 19:45:38 *** alask0ud has joined #openttd 19:47:35 <Samu> 237-240 19:47:39 <Samu> ok 3 days difference 19:47:54 <V453000> supermop_: where are you using vray? rhino? 19:48:01 <supermop_> yeah 19:48:10 <V453000> cause this shit is probably heavily dependent on your application 19:48:24 <V453000> so don't take my hints for sure 19:48:26 <supermop_> i asked IT guys for maxwell or flamingo bc ive never used vray 19:48:38 <Samu> 122-125 days for a 500 tiles distance, 237-240 days for a 1000 tiles distance 19:48:38 <supermop_> but they put vray on instead? 19:48:45 <V453000> xd 19:48:54 <Samu> nothing strange here 19:49:27 <supermop_> so i tried to have my intern set up the materials but i'm not really happy with them 19:49:44 <Samu> Rubidium: how do i calculate the days on the holding pattern you mentioned 19:49:54 <Samu> i'd like to exclude these days 19:50:32 <supermop_> so now i'm being forced, kicking and screaming, to learn this shit 19:51:05 <V453000> xd 19:54:50 <Samu> ah i see what's different 19:55:18 <Samu> the height at which the helicopter starts it's landing 19:55:52 <Samu> sometimes the height is short, and takes less time to land 19:56:29 <Samu> but it's still strange, i think the terrain height is equal everywhere i placed the heliports, much recheck 19:57:05 <Samu> yep, height = 1 19:57:21 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd 19:57:23 <Samu> there's something i'm missing. 19:57:50 <Samu> the helicopters actually travel up/down some mountains, does that affect their current height? 19:57:58 <Samu> at the time of landing? 19:58:19 <Samu> or does it even affect their speeds? 19:58:52 <Samu> i need another test 19:58:55 <Samu> brb 20:00:23 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 20:06:10 <NGC3982> Wow. 20:06:17 <NGC3982> No man's sky sure got shit when it opened 20:06:23 <NGC3982> But its really nice. 20:08:42 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 20:15:06 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 20:17:09 <Samu> back 20:17:15 <Samu> i finally found the issue 20:17:55 <Samu> it is confirmed, traversing through terrain height does increase the landing time 20:18:15 <Samu> not sure if it's intended behaviour, probably is 20:18:57 <Samu> i need to be wary of terrain height now 20:20:59 <Alberth> mountains give challenges even if you fly over them :) 20:21:58 <Samu> it affects only the landing time, not the speed 20:22:50 <Samu> the helicopter height increases when going up mountains, but does not decrease when going down mountains 20:23:25 <Samu> the higher the height, the longer it takes to land 20:23:45 <Samu> so, is it intended behaviour that it doesn't lower height? 20:24:20 <Alberth> at least it's not programmed that way :) 20:24:23 <Alberth> good night 20:24:26 *** Alberth has left #openttd 20:24:30 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 20:24:36 <Samu> oh well :| 20:29:58 <Samu> N-S: 99 days 20:30:02 <Samu> S-N: 99 days 20:31:19 <Samu> W-E: 97 days 20:31:23 <Samu> E-W: 100 days 20:31:28 <_dp_> Wow, turns out destroying fountains and statues doesn't benefit town growth at all 20:32:51 *** aard has quit IRC 20:32:53 <Samu> NW-SE: 143 days 20:33:03 <Samu> SE-NW: 146 days 20:33:45 <ST2> Samu: it's the wind ^^ 20:33:52 <ST2> _dp_: all ears ;) 20:34:18 <Samu> SW-NE: 144 days 20:34:25 <Samu> NE-SW: 146 days 20:34:54 <SpComb> !summon frosch123 20:35:21 <_dp_> ok, not with a good layout at least) 20:35:55 <_dp_> ST2, go check town emulator, I added option for removing that stuff 20:35:56 <ST2> something related with the number of buildings? 20:36:40 <Samu> penalty range between 143/100 = 1.43 to 146/97 = 1,50 20:36:49 <Samu> 1,43 to 1,50 20:36:51 *** Hiddenfunstuff has quit IRC 20:36:56 <_dp_> ST2, no, just seems that potential of it being replaced it straight up better that of getting a bigger house in its place 20:37:00 <ST2> saw it already (not with latest improvements)... and been last weekend offline - Saber made the work and posted it on our forum ;) 20:37:23 <Samu> I'm unsure if 1,50 is a good penalty for aircraft 20:37:47 <Samu> 1,50 seems to be the right value for ships and trains though 20:37:48 <_dp_> ST2, and I even replied in that thread ;) It's a new feature, added it few minutes ago 20:42:23 <Samu> woah, i can't set a speed limit for aircraft t.t 20:45:33 <debdog> they'd stall 21:06:57 *** smoke_fumus has quit IRC 21:13:40 *** Progman has quit IRC 21:20:32 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 21:22:21 *** Samu has quit IRC 21:37:31 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 21:37:31 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 21:44:11 *** tokai has quit IRC 21:51:12 *** Samu has joined #openttd 21:52:26 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd 21:55:21 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 22:06:46 *** gelignite has quit IRC 22:31:08 <Samu> do you know of a decent heightmap with a good balance between water, flat land and hilly land? 22:31:43 <Samu> objective is to test ais on them, no matter the transport choice 22:33:32 <Samu> i'd like to avoid lakes 22:33:38 <Samu> also rivers 22:33:51 <Samu> and narrow water passages 22:43:55 *** Gja has quit IRC 22:46:40 <Samu> :( 22:49:17 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 22:49:30 *** JacobD88 has quit IRC 22:50:27 *** JacobD88 has joined #openttd 22:50:55 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 22:52:08 <Samu> \ 22:56:12 <Samu> think i found a map i like 23:00:08 *** JacobD88 has quit IRC 23:05:23 *** srhnsn has quit IRC 23:08:01 <Samu> i'll be using NPF as pathfinder for ships 23:08:20 <Samu> ais do better with npf for some reason 23:09:21 <Samu> automatic reversing at signals, I wonder if this could help some ais 23:09:30 <Samu> will try 23:11:00 <alask0ud> brasileiro? 23:13:41 <ST2> nah, ninguém dança samba por aqui xD 23:16:21 <alask0ud> asking Samu tho 23:16:41 <Samu> nop, tuga 23:16:55 <alask0ud> that 23:27:01 <Samu> will test all AIs, no vehicle type restrictions of any kind, and with their default parameters 23:27:08 <Samu> solo each 23:27:17 <Samu> for 100 years 23:27:41 <Samu> it's reasonable to do because some ais don't cope well with some restrictions 23:27:59 <Samu> map size reduced to 512x512 though 23:28:13 <Samu> let me count the number of ais 23:29:38 <Samu> 38, ugh... 23:29:41 <Samu> oh well 23:29:59 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd 23:30:41 <Samu> and this time, i'm password protecting the servers 23:31:42 <Samu> or hmm... screw the firewall settings or something like that 23:32:10 <Samu> is it possible to not advertise a dedicated server? 23:33:39 <Samu> server_advertise = false, let's see if this works 23:43:28 <Samu> 37? i must have missed some 23:43:47 <Samu> ah, right, 37, the other is a folder 23:45:18 <Samu> guys, pick 8 random numbers from 1 to 37, i don't feel like doing this alphabetically 23:47:51 <Samu> dead chat 23:49:49 *** supermop_ has quit IRC 23:54:47 <Supercheese> @rand(37) 23:54:59 <Supercheese> @rand 37 23:55:01 <Supercheese> eh 23:55:19 <Samu> ^_^ 23:55:29 <Supercheese> @calc rand 37 23:55:29 <DorpsGek> Supercheese: Error: unexpected EOF while parsing (<string>, line 1) 23:55:32 <Supercheese> bleh 23:55:40 <Supercheese> I tried 23:55:44 <ST2> hehe 23:56:01 <Supercheese> "The syntax is Python syntax" the bot says 23:56:08 * Supercheese does not know Python syntax 23:56:13 <ST2> if it's like rand(3) that gives 90% of times 2 23:56:21 <ST2> I think it's bribed xD