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00:36:04 *** JezK_ has joined #openttd 01:06:52 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 01:08:25 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 01:53:28 <Samu> new patch for docks - https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=75221 01:53:32 <Samu> now i'm off to bed, cyas 01:56:01 *** Samu has quit IRC 02:16:39 *** smoke_fumus has quit IRC 02:25:42 *** supermop_ has quit IRC 02:38:18 *** Mazur has quit IRC 02:49:52 *** Mazur has joined #openttd 02:57:57 *** Mazur has quit IRC 03:08:36 *** Mazur has joined #openttd 03:26:26 *** Lejving has joined #openttd 03:57:20 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 04:04:30 *** Lejving has quit IRC 04:06:44 *** glx has quit IRC 04:57:49 *** Mazur has quit IRC 05:00:37 *** keoz has joined #openttd 05:11:46 *** Lejving has joined #openttd 05:32:57 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 05:41:34 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 05:49:50 *** Lejving has quit IRC 06:00:47 *** Biolunar has joined #openttd 06:18:44 *** keoz has quit IRC 06:43:09 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd 07:01:41 *** Lejving has joined #openttd 07:10:25 *** efess has quit IRC 07:29:21 *** Mazur has joined #openttd 07:44:20 *** Progman has joined #openttd 07:47:32 *** Supercheese has quit IRC 08:00:09 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 08:00:27 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 08:00:41 <Wolf01> o/ 08:02:20 *** Lejving has quit IRC 08:21:35 *** JezK_ has quit IRC 08:22:40 *** Mazur has quit IRC 08:24:26 *** Arveen has joined #openttd 08:40:13 *** Mazur has joined #openttd 08:41:56 *** Arveen has quit IRC 08:50:39 *** Progman has quit IRC 09:02:34 *** efess has joined #openttd 09:02:53 *** Lejving has joined #openttd 09:09:55 *** Tirili has joined #openttd 09:34:49 *** Tirili has quit IRC 09:57:30 *** Lejving has quit IRC 10:26:36 *** Samu has joined #openttd 10:30:49 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 10:56:56 *** Lejving has joined #openttd 11:02:07 <Samu> why is &EnsureNoShipProc on rail_cmd.cpp and not on vehicle.cpp :( 11:10:54 <Samu> darn rail tiletypes ruining dock placement 11:16:04 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 11:17:32 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 11:23:48 <Samu> GetRailGroundType returned RAIL_GROUND_BARREN (0) RailGroundType 11:24:20 <Samu> why is it not returning RAIL_GROUND_WATER 11:24:26 <Samu> what am i doing wrong? 11:25:38 <Samu> http://imgur.com/a/sgJ2V 11:26:09 <Samu> that rail, isn't the ground type RAIL_GROUND_WATER? why is it getting RAIL_GROUND_BARREN ? 11:27:20 *** TheMask96 has quit IRC 11:27:50 <Samu> ahhhhh, nevermind, my bad 11:27:54 <Samu> the error is mine 11:28:03 <Samu> I was asking the wrong tile 11:28:21 <Samu> tile_cur, not tile 11:31:14 <Samu> problem solved 11:31:56 *** TheMask96 has joined #openttd 11:34:35 *** Lejving has quit IRC 11:42:36 <Samu> posted https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=75221&p=1176149#p1176149 11:42:45 <Samu> v2 11:51:32 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 12:08:42 <Samu> i hate logic 12:08:58 <Samu> i always fail, always have to post a correction 12:20:49 <Samu> v3 - https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=75216&p=1176098#p1176098 12:31:38 <Samu> a patch that depends on another patch to make sense 12:31:54 <Samu> oh well... doesnt' matter 12:32:13 <Samu> it works either way 12:41:04 *** Lejving has joined #openttd 12:49:19 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 12:50:32 <Flygon_> Urp 12:50:37 *** Flygon_ is now known as Flygon 12:50:38 <andythenorth> lo 12:51:03 <Flygon> Can't find a 2CC vehicle list that has the alpha1 vehicles. The lists are for the older .grfs, without the trains between Le Belge and American 12:51:03 <Flygon> <_> 12:51:06 <Flygon> SHOWER TIME 12:51:11 <Flygon> Also yo 13:04:13 <Wolf01> o/ 13:05:49 <V453000> yo puny humenz 13:27:59 <Wolf01> I need to prepare some wall layouts which can integrate with rails, belts and pipes... 13:28:59 <Flygon> Doop 13:31:51 <V453000> what do you mean integrate? 13:33:20 <Wolf01> I have standard sizes for railways and concrete paths 13:33:53 <Wolf01> Also defences along walls are placed in some ways which allow gates 13:34:25 <V453000> :) 13:35:03 <Wolf01> But not everything could be placed without some manual changes 13:45:36 <V453000> THEN IT IS NOT AUTOMATED ENOUGH 13:46:01 <Wolf01> THAT'S MY GOAL 13:47:07 <V453000> FUCK YEAH 13:47:08 <Wolf01> Also, I have a roboport grid 13:48:08 <Wolf01> There are too many units in Factorio, roboport areas, electric poles areas, underground pipes max length, underground belts max length 13:48:45 <Wolf01> Odd and even sized entities 13:48:51 <LordAro> > complains about the number of different units in #openttd 13:48:55 *** andythenorth has left #openttd 13:54:10 <Flygon> C'moooon 13:54:11 <Flygon> It's 1845 13:54:19 <Flygon> There has to be something better than Le bloody Belge 13:56:52 <Wolf01> Pfffff 3 tiles on one side and 4 on the other :( 14:00:18 <Flygon> oh nvm a train just dropped that isn't Le Belge 14:00:49 <supermop> yo 14:01:02 <Flygon> Ey 14:15:08 <Samu> is it really okay to create a topic for every patch I make? :( 14:15:47 <Samu> i got 3 or more tiny patches, but i'm afraid I might infest the forum 14:27:07 <peter1138> Yes 14:29:17 <Samu> uh, okay... posting 14:34:45 <Samu> done posting, so it was 4 14:34:58 <Samu> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewforum.php?f=33 - uh... 14:42:06 *** Mazur has quit IRC 14:44:46 *** Mazur has joined #openttd 14:46:13 <Samu> there was another thing I'd like to post, and it's about that whole issue of ships going to innaccessible ship depots, I am unable to fix that on my own. Too complex for me to handle it 14:48:51 <Samu> then there is yet another issue, but I guess _dp_ is on it, about diagonal distances profiting more 14:49:21 <Samu> not really ship related 14:49:27 <Samu> but also affects them 14:59:53 <_dp_> Samu, there isn't much else to do about it, mostly needs decision not code 15:02:22 <Samu> oh, :( 15:02:49 <_dp_> Samu, and since no one seems to care it's probably not gonna happen 15:04:57 <Samu> oh i care lol 15:05:46 <Samu> i wanted to try the speed penalty idea 15:06:09 <Samu> but seems it was tried and trains look bad with it?! 15:06:42 <Samu> i suggested the penalty on the entire train, not per wagon 15:17:58 <peter1138> is that the "train moves too fast in diagonals" thing? 15:18:15 <Samu> yes, but it also affects ships and aircraft 15:18:22 <peter1138> ok 15:18:26 <peter1138> vehicle obviously 15:18:31 <peter1138> but nobody uses anything but trains :p 15:23:31 *** Alberth has joined #openttd 15:23:31 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth 15:24:08 <Wolf01> o/ 15:24:25 <LordAro> /o 15:24:34 <_dp_> peter1138, it actually moves slower, but not enough to outbalance manhattan distance increase 15:29:35 <Alberth> o/ 15:29:53 <Samu> really' 15:30:01 <Samu> how did u find that? 15:30:13 <Samu> slow it moar 15:30:20 <Samu> if its easily editable, that is 15:31:00 <_dp_> or mb not slower... diagonal is 256 units, side is 192 15:31:47 <_dp_> 256 / 192 = 1.33 < 1.41 hm, guess it still means it's faster %) 15:32:56 <Samu> it's 33% faster, is that it? 15:35:51 <Samu> 1.33/1.5 = wanted speed 15:36:16 <_dp_> Samu, nah, 6% faster compared to euclidean 15:36:58 <Samu> try...( 256/192)/1.5 15:37:15 <Alberth> @calc 256.0/192/1.5 15:37:16 <DorpsGek> Alberth: 0.888888888889 15:37:18 <Wolf01> 42 15:37:46 <Alberth> Dorpsgek has it almost right, Wolf01 :) 15:37:59 <Samu> or, hmm 15:38:22 <_dp_> @calc 2**.5 / 1.33 15:38:22 <DorpsGek> _dp_: 1.06331846795 15:38:27 <Wolf01> Mmmh I'm bored 15:38:39 <Alberth> play some factorio? 15:38:47 <Samu> i hate math sometimes 15:38:48 <Alberth> make my dinner? 15:38:49 <Wolf01> Just closed it because I was bored 15:38:58 <Wolf01> Dinner is already done 15:39:02 <Alberth> :o factorio done? 15:39:39 <Samu> on axis, the distance is 256 15:39:40 <_dp_> and 50% faster in manhattan distance (192/128) 15:39:40 <Alberth> no no, my dinner isn't done yet :p 15:39:58 <Samu> on side, the distance is 192 15:40:04 <Samu> ah 15:40:10 <Wolf01> Heh, I'm just running all around building walls and obliterating every single alien I find with my 124 destroyer bots 15:40:16 <Samu> ya, 1.5 the magic value i've been trying to figure out 15:40:25 <Wolf01> I need something different 15:41:49 <Samu> distance on axis is 192 or 128? confused 15:43:19 <_dp_> Samu, 192, diagonal = 256 = 2 manhattan 15:46:43 <Samu> axis = 192, diagonal = 256? diagonal distance is bigger than axis distance? weird 15:47:06 <Wolf01> Samu... geometry? 15:47:35 <Samu> gah i hate math 15:47:58 <Samu> what is the side distance a train has to travel on the track? 15:48:07 <_dp_> Wolf01, he probably thinks in screen coords 15:48:42 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 15:48:50 <Samu> a track on the right side of the tile versus a track on the axis of the tile 15:49:15 <Samu> these are the distances I was trying to find 15:50:17 *** TheMask96 has quit IRC 15:50:22 <_dp_> Samu, see GetAdvanceDistance@vehicle_base.h 15:50:38 <Samu> oki 15:50:59 <_dp_> that's for trains, for other vehicles it's somewhere else I think 15:51:24 <Alkel_U3> Wolf01: and that's where Dwarf Fortress comes in 15:53:32 <Wolf01> I was more like "that's where C# comes in" 15:54:43 *** TheMask96 has joined #openttd 15:56:32 <Samu> lets try absurdly low values to find out what direction this thing refers 15:57:05 <Wolf01> You should try with a hammer 15:57:22 <Samu> return (this->direction & 1) ? 32 : 256; 15:57:23 <Samu> keks 15:58:50 <Samu> oh, so lower value = faster speed, and that direction means on the axis 15:58:58 <Samu> now i know 15:59:11 <Samu> and it is affecting road vehicles :( 15:59:15 <Samu> not just trains 15:59:57 <Wolf01> If you want to change road vehicles just make them slow down in curves 16:00:49 <Samu> road vehicles are fine (appart from those inconsistencies 16:00:57 <Samu> )but that's another matter 16:02:32 *** Mazur has quit IRC 16:04:17 <Samu> okay 256*1.5 = 288 16:04:41 <Samu> return (this->direction & 1) ? 192 : 288; 16:05:02 <Samu> oops i mean 192*1.5 = 288 16:05:15 <Samu> testing 16:07:26 *** Samu_ has joined #openttd 16:13:20 *** Samu has quit IRC 16:13:50 <Samu_> nop, something's not right t.t 16:13:52 *** keoz has joined #openttd 16:14:15 <Alberth> 288 doesn't fit in a byte? 16:15:57 <_dp_> Alberth, 256+256 doesn't fit either 16:16:26 <Alberth> if you like to keep all bits, indeed 16:18:01 <_dp_> Alberth, nah, I just mean that it's being added to progress 16:18:17 <_dp_> Alberth, still can break somewhere else though %) 16:18:19 <Samu_> 256 is the maximum value? 16:18:22 <Samu_> t.t 16:18:57 <Samu_> 256/1.5 then 16:19:29 <Samu_> 170.6666666 16:20:43 <Samu_> return (this->direction & 1) ? (256 * 3) / 2 : 256; 16:20:48 <Samu_> sometihng like that? 16:21:51 <Samu_> or, instead of 256, 255 16:22:02 <Samu_> 255/1.5 = 170, no decimals 16:22:47 <Samu_> testing return (this->direction & 1) ? 170 : 255; 16:24:04 <_dp_> Samu_, none of this makes any sense to me :p 16:24:45 <Samu_> well, instead of making vehicles slower on diagonals, i'm making them faster on the axis 16:24:49 <Samu_> :p 16:25:05 <_dp_> Samu_, if you want equal speed in manhattan do 1:2 ratio 16:28:08 <_dp_> Samu_, and leave 256 to keep max income unchanged 16:28:20 <_dp_> Samu_, so, basically it's 128:256 16:30:08 <Samu_> with 256, i'd need a way to get 170.66666 16:30:24 <Samu_> but maybe this test is pointless, let me try this first 16:32:18 <_dp_> Samu_, it's distance, you multiply it by 1.5 not divide 16:33:48 *** Samu has joined #openttd 16:34:06 <Samu> strange, i'm not getting desired results 16:34:10 <Samu> i fail 16:35:31 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 16:35:38 <andythenorth> o/ 16:35:42 <Alberth> o/ 16:38:25 *** Samu_ has quit IRC 16:38:35 <andythenorth> is cat 16:39:06 <supermop> yo andythenorth 16:39:53 <Samu> 192 : 256; on axis - 143 days traveling, on diagonal - 99 days traveling 16:42:22 <Samu> 170 : 256; on axis - 126 days traveling, on diagonal - 98 days traveling 16:42:41 <Samu> doesn't seem to make sense... what the heck 16:43:25 <Samu> let's try 128 : 256 like u said 16:43:33 *** smoke_fumus has joined #openttd 16:45:32 <supermop> time to build a new non-grid transport game i guess? 16:45:57 <Samu> 128 : 256; on axis - 95 days traveling, on diagonal - 95 days traveling 16:46:03 <Samu> it achieved parity! yay 16:46:17 <Samu> but... the days traveling on the side also decrease, why's that? 16:47:40 <Samu> the trains are travelling at 5 km/h 16:47:52 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 16:48:02 <Samu> over a manhattan distance of 20 tiles 16:51:24 <Samu> meanwhile, I found a bug on my easier dock placement patch 16:51:33 <Samu> gonna fix, brb 16:51:58 * andythenorth wonders what next 16:52:04 <andythenorth> probably un-breaking nml :( 16:53:15 <Samu> andythenorth, are u good at drawing logic? what gets drawn in front of what? 16:53:26 <andythenorth> no 16:53:32 <Samu> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=75219&p=1176104#p1176104 - this needs help :( 16:53:38 <Samu> oh well t.t 16:56:10 <andythenorth> Samu: radical approach, remove locks :P 16:56:13 <supermop> andythenorth: andyhouses? 16:56:17 <andythenorth> no 16:56:20 <andythenorth> zero interest 16:56:29 <andythenorth> houses are solved by default game, or by TAI 16:56:37 <andythenorth> I drew a house for opengfx once 16:56:39 <andythenorth> boring :P 16:56:49 <Alberth> :) 16:56:50 <supermop> but so cute 16:57:02 <_dp_> Samu, oh, good luck fixing z levels :p 16:57:16 <supermop> also that's just a challenge to overengineer procedural houses 16:57:28 <supermop> Samu: looks like a fun ride 17:01:20 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 17:09:49 <supermop> can a house set define 1 house only? 17:10:48 *** glx has joined #openttd 17:10:48 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 17:10:54 *** Xaroth|W1rk is now known as Xaroth|Work 17:11:13 *** Xaroth|Work has joined #openttd 17:24:22 <Samu> i hate logic, i really don't get how it works at the first try 17:24:28 <Samu> i always fail 17:24:38 <LordAro> "i hate logic" ~ Samu, 2016 17:25:42 <Samu> docks are not tiles of type water, something is wrong somewhere, i was able to place a dock in front of the other 17:33:21 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 17:33:49 <andythenorth> so can hg revert a commit? 17:33:58 <andythenorth> or do I just reverse patch from the diff, and commit that? 17:35:18 <andythenorth> hg backout? 17:36:45 <Alberth> rollback 17:36:57 <Alberth> it undoes the last thing 17:37:03 <andythenorth> nah, it’s already pushed to remote 17:37:16 <Alberth> ah 17:37:24 <andythenorth> I broke nml 17:38:01 <Alberth> hmm, a reverse commit, should be possible 17:38:04 <andythenorth> now I need to fix my mess :P 17:38:16 <Samu> how do i do this test? "if the tile is not water, deny construction, but if it is not water it can be a buoy, a rail with water on the halftile or an aqueduct. but if the tile is water, but the slope isn't flat or with one corner raised, deny construction" 17:38:35 <Samu> so messed up 17:38:54 <Milek7> hg don't work like git? 17:39:07 <andythenorth> I don’t know 17:39:08 <Alberth> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5913424/hg-undo-a-commit-from-history apparently backout 17:39:23 <Alberth> never used it 17:40:03 <andythenorth> https://www.mercurial-scm.org/wiki/Backout 17:40:43 <andythenorth> I get scared by docs like “ Note that this page no longer tells the whole truth. “ 17:40:49 <andythenorth> more mess 17:41:08 <Alberth> it's the top commit you want to undo? 17:41:28 <Alberth> start with making a clone 17:41:36 <Alberth> so you can make a mess without a mess 17:42:41 <andythenorth> it’s the top commit 17:42:46 <andythenorth> in a branch 17:43:17 <Alberth> make a local clone, then try a backout on the clone 17:43:30 <Alberth> looks like it should work 17:43:43 <Alberth> obviously, if not, you can rollback 17:44:22 <andythenorth> ah, maybe frosch just removed my changes 17:44:30 <andythenorth> this might be not necessaty 17:44:33 <andythenorth> necessary * 17:44:41 <Alberth> the joys of shared repos :p 17:45:08 <andythenorth> I wish we had a trivial way to fork 17:45:13 <andythenorth> nvm 17:45:16 <andythenorth> wishes aren’t horses 17:45:34 <Eddi|zuHause> if you already pushed to the global repo, don't do any of these history-altering operations. just patch -R with the previous commit and commit that as "undo the last change" 17:45:35 <Alberth> you have, make a local clone, hack, then push back to the mirror 17:45:45 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27655 trunk/src/lang/romanian.txt (2016-09-06 19:45:36 +0200 ) 17:45:46 <DorpsGek> -Update from Eints: 17:45:47 <DorpsGek> romanian: 2 changes by kkmic 17:45:52 <andythenorth> which mirror? 17:46:04 <Alberth> the copy you cloned from 17:46:43 <andythenorth> no remote? 17:46:55 <Alberth> ie I have a clone from the remote repo, my mirror. I make clones of the mirror, hack, and push good changes back to the mirror, then push to remote 17:47:12 <andythenorth> do you have a separate solution for backing up your disk? 17:47:37 <Alberth> I run an rsync to the 2nd disk yes 17:48:00 <Alberth> but not sure what's that got to do with it 17:48:34 <Alberth> basically, I can have many clones from my mirror 17:48:53 <Alberth> hack on different things without getting in each others way 17:49:12 <andythenorth> my habit is to rely on the remote repo for backup 17:49:16 <andythenorth> and sharing code 17:49:28 <andythenorth> I’ve had too many losses of data to trust local storage 17:49:32 <Alberth> since it's clone on the local disk, many repo files are actually shared between copies 17:49:35 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 17:49:56 <andythenorth> I need to reset my brain to work differently on this 17:49:59 <andythenorth> :P 17:50:12 <Alberth> that's fine, you can often decide it's good to push back to the mirror and the remote 17:50:40 <andythenorth> I want to never push to the specific remote 17:50:45 <andythenorth> in the case of nml 17:50:54 <Alberth> I mostly work in full patch queue, but there is no need to actually do that 17:51:39 <frosch123> hoin 17:51:41 <Milek7> andythenorth: data loses due to hardware failrue or accidental rm -rf? :p 17:51:43 <andythenorth> frosch123: you deleted my breaking of nml repo? 17:52:14 <Alberth> hoi 17:52:27 <andythenorth> Milek7: either 17:52:38 <andythenorth> both happen 17:52:56 <frosch123> andythenorth: yes, i stripped the branch 17:53:04 <andythenorth> thanks, sorry 17:54:51 * andythenorth experiments 17:54:59 <andythenorth> seems github can import mercurial projects 17:55:41 <andythenorth> ach, it complains about matching authors to their github profiles 17:55:49 <andythenorth> ‘complains’ = ‘tries to help’ :P 18:02:45 <andythenorth> yay, now I won’t break official nml https://github.com/andythenorth/nml-andythenorth/tree/NotRoadTypes 18:03:04 *** Gja has joined #openttd 18:04:48 <sim-al2> I have found the ultimate locomotive: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/58/VR_RT20.JPG 18:05:01 <sim-al2> Check out that huge engine 18:05:12 <sim-al2> And advanced suspension 18:06:59 <Alberth> git-hg isn't working very well, I tried that too 18:08:00 <andythenorth> yeah, I’m not so bothered about the vcs flavour :) 18:08:07 <andythenorth> I just want easy forks, and devzone isn’t 18:08:57 <andythenorth> there’s quite a lot of inertia to working on a project, when it comes to putting code in public 18:09:50 <andythenorth> for my job, we just use a *lot* of feature branches, try not to ship broken code, and disable jenkins tests for specific branches which are expected to break tests 18:10:23 <andythenorth> I have to change mental attitude a bit to do ottd stuff 18:10:29 <andythenorth> nvm 18:11:56 <andythenorth> frosch123: so I found some houses support in nml, using ID 0x12 18:12:00 <andythenorth> so 0x13 for roadtypes? :P 18:34:15 <frosch123> you can just reassign the town feature 18:34:30 <frosch123> it is most likely only used because everything needs some number 18:34:36 <frosch123> but it is not part of the output 18:35:22 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 18:38:40 <frosch123> andythenorth: did you use some different device for irc yesterday? 18:38:44 <andythenorth> no 18:39:21 <frosch123> for some reason the logs of yesterday do not work (they also did not work yesterday) 18:39:38 <frosch123> when i look at the logfile, all fancy characters are weird in your messages :p 18:40:18 <frosch123> but only yesterday 18:41:11 <frosch123> oh nevermind, also eddi is broken 18:43:42 <frosch123> § 18:48:00 <andythenorth> ha ha 18:48:11 <andythenorth> ‘eddi is broken’ could be a quote :) 18:52:17 *** Progman has joined #openttd 18:55:17 <Samu> v3 for easier dock placement - https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=75221&p=1176149#p1176149 18:55:30 <Samu> hopefully it works for good this time 18:55:43 <Eddi|zuHause> sure. 18:59:28 *** Mazur has joined #openttd 19:05:35 * frosch123 blames php 19:06:21 <andythenorth> https://twitter.com/PHP_CEO 19:07:14 *** Mazur has quit IRC 19:07:36 <frosch123> did the capslock broke and he had to stop tweeting? 19:07:39 <frosch123> *break 19:18:21 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 19:24:34 <Wolf01> Back from the lego world 19:25:25 <Wolf01> Lol@PHP_CEO 19:33:57 <andythenorth> Wolf01: https://github.com/andythenorth/nml-andythenorth/tree/NotRoadTypes 19:34:03 <andythenorth> no changes yet :P 19:36:16 <Wolf01> 'pull' is not a git command, did you mean 'push'.... do you troll me? 19:36:37 <Wolf01> Back to svn 19:37:13 <andythenorth> what gave you that? :P 19:37:23 <Wolf01> Stupid git 19:37:43 <andythenorth> is ‘pull’ not a default git command? 19:38:02 <Wolf01> Yes, it is, it's even listed on "more used commands" 19:38:07 <andythenorth> https://git-scm.com/docs/git-pull 19:42:15 *** mikegrb has quit IRC 19:46:42 <Wolf01> Do I need snakes to use nml? 19:49:15 <andythenorth> to develop on it, yes 19:52:28 <V453000> foqn pysnakes 19:52:51 <andythenorth> Wolf01: do you have snakes? 19:52:57 <Wolf01> I had problems in the past with different snakes lenghts 19:52:58 <V453000> always reminds me of my self-promise that I want to learn that shit eventually, at least some basics 19:53:44 <andythenorth> Wolf01: I will do the nml bit, unless I get stuck 19:53:47 <andythenorth> and provide a grf 19:54:44 <Wolf01> +1 19:55:33 <andythenorth> Wolf01: you’re on windows? o_O 19:55:37 <Wolf01> Yup 19:55:46 <andythenorth> python.buildout probably works, but eh 19:55:47 <andythenorth> https://github.com/collective/buildout.python 19:56:03 <andythenorth> you’d have to configure paths and stuff, no idea how to do that 19:56:04 <Wolf01> I could use the ubuntu subsystem 19:56:12 <Wolf01> Is there for a reason now 19:56:28 <andythenorth> leave it for now :) 19:56:35 <andythenorth> don’t look for unneeded work :) 19:56:45 <andythenorth> look / get given :P 20:00:23 <Samu> one of my patches is making Terron ai crash with an empty array 20:00:27 <Samu> t.t 20:01:29 <Samu> seems to be buoy related 20:03:44 <Samu> what is an array? 20:03:50 <Wolf01> Magic 20:04:00 <Samu> local qt = big_qt.GetIntersection(x, y, x, y, -1).pop(); 20:04:07 <Samu> is there an array here or so? 20:04:21 <Samu> it crashes here with "empty array" 20:04:45 <Wolf01> Yup, there's an array 20:05:09 *** mikegrb has joined #openttd 20:07:06 <Samu> gonna try Terron solo 20:07:19 <Samu> if it errors again, i bet it's the buoy patch 20:10:48 <Samu> errored 20:10:55 <Samu> same empty array 20:12:23 <Wolf01> No buoys in "qt"? 20:13:14 <Wolf01> Chainability is cool, but leds to a lot of errors 20:14:19 <Samu> i made buoy placement to error when there's a ship in the way 20:14:51 <Samu> it used not to give any error and just place it 20:15:40 <Samu> or maybe it's something else, but i suspect it to be the buoy patch 20:16:50 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 20:18:01 <supermop> http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2016/09/06/amtrak_s_avelia_liberty_is_going_to_be_better_than_the_acela_in_every_way.html 20:18:37 <supermop> i imagine this will find more us in a NARS game than in real life 20:18:42 <supermop> use 20:18:52 <Wolf01> :P 20:19:13 <sim-al2> Apparently it's the Acela replacement 20:19:17 <sim-al2> so... 20:19:35 <sim-al2> There's also the potential for California to order it 20:20:49 <supermop> yeah seems designed to sell in multiple NA markets 20:21:12 <supermop> had been feeling like cali was leaning more towards hitachi sets though 20:21:29 <sim-al2> Yeah Hitachi looks good too 20:21:29 <supermop> all of their renders show blue and gold n700s or so 20:21:46 <sim-al2> Do they have a US plant? 20:22:12 <sim-al2> If they don't and Alstom does, that could hurt they chances 20:22:28 <supermop> not sure, kawasaki has more than one, alstom has one, siemens has one i think 20:22:53 <supermop> hitachi will build something fast once the rfp goes out 20:23:01 <sim-al2> Yeah, probably 20:23:14 <supermop> but i didn't hear of anyone else bidding on this amtrak order 20:23:23 <sim-al2> There's also Nippon Sharyo making railcars 20:23:53 <sim-al2> I don't know that they would build high speed equipment, but they will be building commuter/regional stuff in short order 20:23:59 <supermop> NS focuses mostly on slow and heavy hauled stock it seems, mostly chicago stuff 20:24:26 <supermop> kawasaki and alstom seem to split the NYC stuff almost 50/50 20:24:52 <supermop> bombardier builds a lot for stuff out here too 20:25:17 <supermop> bombardier and siemens seem to split the light rail market 20:25:29 <sim-al2> The new NS bilevels are supposed to be much lighter 20:25:41 <supermop> but Cincinnati bought from a Spanish builder 20:26:03 <Samu> without the buoy patch and with 14 Terrons I am not getting the error anymore 20:26:04 <sim-al2> But they had a testing failure a few months back, just short of the strength requirements, so now they are delayed 20:27:05 <sim-al2> Bombardier builds a lot of stuff, including locomotives 20:27:36 <sim-al2> Siemens has big plans it seems, not just the locomotives but also new railcars 20:28:06 <sim-al2> Like the ones for Brightline, but i think they are angling for a big order from maybe VIA too 20:28:50 <sim-al2> VIA has a lot of old stainless steel cars that they would like to replace since refurbishing them is fairly expensive 20:29:36 *** Alberth has left #openttd 20:31:32 <sim-al2> CAF has been building new cars for Amtrak, and I think will play a bigger role in the transit market too 20:32:56 <sim-al2> I assume that CAF is the Spanish manufacturer you mentioned, there is Talgo too but they build specialized articulated stuff mostly 20:33:24 <supermop> almost all non-acela, non-genesis services i see at Penn or yards in queens are the new seimens locomotives 20:33:46 <sim-al2> Yeah, the whole HHP fleet is out 20:34:13 <sim-al2> And almost (maybe all now?) AEM7ACs are out 20:34:35 <sim-al2> I think there's a few AEM7ACs doing stuff for MARC though 20:34:45 <supermop> tbh rarely saw HHPs past 2010 20:34:49 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd 20:34:54 <andythenorth> all the meatballs are gone 20:35:02 <supermop> yep 20:35:08 <sim-al2> Yeah, HHP8 relaiblity was crap 20:35:13 <Samu> isn't VIA a cpu maker? 20:35:17 <sim-al2> All the DC AEM7s are gone 20:35:40 <sim-al2> There's a CPU maker called VIA, but the national passenger operator in Canada is called VIA 20:36:08 <sim-al2> For whatever reason the Acelas are more reliable, but supposedly still tempermental 20:36:09 <andythenorth> should I buy this? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/112123890157?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT 20:36:18 <andythenorth> I have no RI locos, and no other passenger cars 20:36:21 <andythenorth> and I want neither 20:36:47 <Samu> i see 20:38:18 <Samu> retesting all 7 ship AIs, all at the same time 20:39:14 <Samu> i mean, all in the same world 20:40:11 <Samu> without the buoy patch of course 20:41:27 <Samu> wormnest isn't around :( 20:41:32 *** gelignite has quit IRC 20:42:26 <Wolf01> andythenorth, purchase unitram from kato, I've seen it at the last model expo and I loved it at first sight 20:42:39 <Samu> i made towns grow very fast, let's see if they build on the right tiles 20:42:46 <Wolf01> https://jmtn.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/unitram2.jpg 20:43:22 <Samu> a tram to transport students inside a university? 20:43:29 <Wolf01> http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=media;sa=media;in=13733 20:43:55 <andythenorth> tramz 20:44:03 <andythenorth> my kids would like it, at least the younger one 20:44:07 * andythenorth not so much :) 20:44:09 <sim-al2> Samu, there is actually a few systems like that 20:44:28 <sim-al2> http://transportation.wvu.edu/prt 20:44:48 <andythenorth> hmm, maybe I need some unitrack 20:45:01 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 20:45:03 <andythenorth> then I can fill this room without needing baseboards 20:45:06 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 20:45:33 <supermop> andythenorth: ho monorails 20:46:29 <andythenorth> kato track is expensive :o 20:46:41 <supermop> once at a japanese language meetup in melbourne, 20:47:09 <supermop> i asked a guy from a city in japan with trams, if they were called 'toden' as i thought 20:47:36 <supermop> he said everyone just called it 'ding-ding' denshya 20:47:54 <supermop> basically 'ding-ding electric train' 20:48:12 <supermop> best/cutest name for tram ever 20:48:28 <Wolf01> :D 20:50:00 <supermop> i wonder what will become of the meatballs 20:50:33 <supermop> i know marc has a few, but NJT neer really ran them i dont think 20:51:04 <supermop> and NJT is so underfunded i am sure they'd take 30 year old hand me downs 20:51:21 <Samu> this is the first time I put NoCAB and NoNoCAB competing in the same world 20:51:23 <supermop> metra doesn't use electric locomotives 20:51:27 <Samu> should be interesting 20:52:18 <andythenorth> this room is about 3m x 11m 20:52:20 <andythenorth> at a guess 20:52:27 <andythenorth> I can’t afford that much track :P 20:53:48 <sim-al2> supermop, they do have the electric line though 20:54:11 <sim-al2> Not locomotives, but bilevel EMUS that look almost exactly like the regular galley cars 20:54:12 <supermop> its all NS bilevel emus 20:54:39 <sim-al2> Not to mention through running with the South Shore emus 20:54:54 <supermop> runs on street in indiana for a stretch, so maybe a big locomotive would be dangerous 20:55:19 <sim-al2> Street running with big locomotives happens all over the US 20:55:30 <supermop> UP - Northwest line should be electrified 20:55:46 <sim-al2> Although the South Shore ones do have to stop for traffic lights there 20:56:03 <supermop> already triple tracked with somewhat high frequency 20:56:27 <sim-al2> Normal US locomotives probably don't have good enough brakes to do that, but it wouldn't be hard to retrofit, albiet with increased brake wear 20:57:50 <sim-al2> Yeah, the problem is that the US freight roads are rather skiddish about having electric lines built over their stuff 20:58:13 <sim-al2> And I think Metra has some major budget problems 21:00:14 <sim-al2> GO Transit in Toronto is going to electrify soonish, which may help get it done in other places 21:00:29 <sim-al2> They have a lot of track, so it will take a whille 21:01:40 <supermop> could meatballs work for electric freight in the northeast? 21:01:50 <sim-al2> No 21:02:01 <supermop> v. fast freight 21:02:07 <sim-al2> Most have been scrapped or are not usable 21:02:16 <supermop> coal unit trains at 100 mph 21:02:27 <sim-al2> The remaining ACs are better used on commuter trains anyway 21:02:42 <sim-al2> Coal trains are too heavy and have too much drag to run at those speeds 21:03:08 <sim-al2> The brakes used on normal freight cars couldn't handle it 21:03:16 <supermop> until we get hitachi to build us some new lightweight HSR hoppers 21:03:23 <supermop> coal emu 21:03:24 <sim-al2> There's no demand for it 21:03:30 <supermop> i demand it 21:03:46 <sim-al2> Lots of unelectrified trackage exists and shippers are fine with it 21:03:55 * andythenorth has run out of things to buy on ebay 21:03:59 <sim-al2> Also demand is dropping 21:04:01 <supermop> actually little demand for coal on east coast at all anymore outside of pizza ovens 21:04:12 <Wolf01> andythenorth, sop wasting money? 21:04:15 <Wolf01> *stop 21:04:34 <supermop> andythenorth: i have a lot of cement at home, how about i cast a bunch of scale monorail rails and sell to you 21:04:37 <andythenorth> ‘wasting’ 21:04:47 <sim-al2> The other major problem is that Conrail tore up a good chunk of the non-passenger electrified lines 21:04:48 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 21:05:44 <sim-al2> Mainly because Amtrak charged a lot to allow Conrail's existing electric fleet to run on the corridor itself, and the locomotives were already aging 21:09:22 *** phirephly has joined #openttd 21:19:47 <andythenorth> bye 21:19:48 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 21:23:10 <supermop> sounds like the acelas will be clapped out and scrapped by time new trains are all delivered 21:23:14 <supermop> so no cascading 21:24:12 <Wolf01> https://youtu.be/_wj-RrwrQ5s lego monorail which even does corners :P 21:24:23 *** mescalito has quit IRC 21:26:30 <supermop> Wolf01: would certainly make monorails cheaper to build 21:27:25 <Samu> OtviAI still has issues with ships 21:27:44 <Samu> the easy placement of docks is negatively impacting Otvi 21:28:33 <Samu> there really isn't much more i can do without negatively affecting gameplay from a human player point of view 21:29:30 <Samu> he is also placing ship depots in a way it blocks narrow passages 21:31:10 <Samu> he doesn't use buoys, and i allow YAPF unlimited distance, but he still got a ship lost. 21:31:32 <Samu> the problem this time is on YAPF 21:31:42 <Samu> it's not perfect enough to find the route 21:32:59 <Samu> i think overall, the balance is positive, he used to have lots of ships with only 1 order 21:34:27 <Samu> next AI I'm checking is DictatorAI 21:35:34 <Samu> he's also being negatively impacted by the easy dock placement :( 21:38:57 <Samu> 2 ships out of 50 are lost 21:39:14 <Samu> DictatorAI balance seems negative :( 21:39:50 <Eddi|zuHause> doesn't sound like a comfortable ride 21:41:10 <Samu> nocab and nonocab seem to be doing fine for now, no lost ships 21:42:53 <Samu> terron is doing fine apparently 21:44:04 <Samu> transcute is doing fine too, for now 21:44:12 <Samu> and wmdot has no ships yet 21:44:19 <Samu> have to wait for oil rigs 21:45:39 <Samu> in short: easy dock placement patch isn't all that good 21:46:08 *** supermop_ has joined #openttd 21:46:43 <Samu> while it allows more docks to be placed, more routes found by the AIs, the AIs aren't ready to deal with it 21:47:15 <Samu> the water passage is closed upon dock placement, and the AI does not ensure that the passage is still valid 21:47:22 <Samu> t.t 21:48:50 <Samu> otviai already suffered from this with his depot placements 21:48:58 <Samu> now it is escalated with docks 21:49:01 <Samu> as well 21:49:21 <Samu> i suppose I'm gonna revert this change 21:49:40 <Samu> too bad, it was a good change 21:49:50 <Samu> :( t.t bah... 21:51:58 *** supermop has quit IRC 21:57:30 <Samu> there is also another different kind of "AI" working 21:57:35 <Samu> towns growth 21:57:51 <Samu> so far i have not noticed any issue with it 21:57:59 <Samu> they are growing in the correct tiles 21:58:30 <Samu> i don't notice any water passage being closed due to town growth 21:58:35 <Samu> just as I intended 21:58:57 <Samu> so far, so good 21:59:45 *** Biolunar has quit IRC 22:09:11 *** Gja has quit IRC 22:10:33 *** Progman has quit IRC 22:12:35 *** Stimrol has quit IRC 22:17:36 <Samu> well well, NoCAB also suffers from the easy dock placement patch :( 22:22:51 *** Stimrol has joined #openttd 22:26:25 <Samu> dictatorai isn't all that great with ships after all, i thought it was better 22:27:02 <Samu> he just build a ship depot on a lake, built ships in there, but the dock they're heading is not in that lake 22:27:23 <Samu> otviai does suffer from this as well 22:28:05 <Samu> a lake, a real natural lake, not river tiles 22:28:12 <Samu> it's sea tiles 22:32:40 *** Lejving has quit IRC 22:34:00 *** Lejving has joined #openttd 22:35:41 <Samu> i must do something about ship depot exits 22:36:16 <Samu> but i want to do it without adverse effects for the gameplay, it's already not intuitive for water construction 22:37:40 *** tokai has joined #openttd 22:37:41 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 22:40:30 *** strohalm has quit IRC 22:44:30 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 22:45:26 *** strohalm has joined #openttd 23:03:27 *** keoz has quit IRC 23:07:58 <Samu> nop, i'm not gonna do anything about ship depot exits 23:08:33 <Samu> it would only help AIs 23:08:38 * goodger pats Samu 23:08:46 <Samu> but would ruin it for human players 23:08:55 <Samu> it already is hard to construct water stuff 23:09:02 <Samu> hi 23:09:05 <Samu> goodger: ~ 23:10:19 <sim-al2> It's always fun to see AI ships built on the wrong body of water, or in a tiny lake far from the sea 23:10:30 <sim-al2> Or just on a river with no locks 23:10:53 <goodger> my secretary of state for defence is always doing that in supreme ruler 23:11:17 <goodger> I don't see it much in openttd though FIRS seems happy to build bulk terminals on lakesides 23:11:35 *** Lejving has quit IRC 23:13:45 *** mikegrb has quit IRC 23:13:56 <Samu> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=75221 - the AIs have trouble dealing with the 1corner thing 23:15:51 *** mikegrb has joined #openttd 23:20:12 <Samu> can AIs actually build locks? 23:20:43 <Samu> do they have the means, API or whatever, to build a lock? never seen any build them 23:20:48 <Samu> same as canal tiles and aqueducts 23:27:44 *** paudia has joined #openttd 23:28:40 *** paudia has left #openttd 23:29:18 <Samu> i'm gonna split this patch in two 23:29:18 <Eddi|zuHause> that's because andy failed to grasp the concept of magic water tiles to make sure there's a larger body of water 23:30:56 <Samu> i once had an idea to remove locks from the game 23:31:17 <Samu> and allow ships going up rivers 23:31:39 <goodger> they can't now? 23:31:51 <Samu> nop, it needs a lock 23:32:26 <Samu> makes water construction very tedious 23:32:51 <goodger> well, bugger 23:33:35 <Samu> another idea would be, instead of a lock being 3 tiles wide, make it only 1 tile 23:34:33 <Samu> keep the middle tile, remove the other 2 tiles 23:34:58 <Wolf01> We need proper locks, not even worse than they are 23:35:20 <Wolf01> Also, 'night 23:35:24 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 23:40:10 <Samu> lol, nocab got some lost ships because otviai blocked passage with a ship depot 23:44:30 <Samu> alright, i've seen enough 23:44:49 <Samu> time to stop this test and split that patch 23:48:05 *** Mazur has joined #openttd