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00:24:56 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has quit IRC 00:40:49 *** Ethereal_Whisper has joined #openttd 01:00:14 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 01:15:28 *** maciozo has quit IRC 01:36:46 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 02:17:41 <Wolf01> Ok, made the convert road tool, I think it could be enough for this night 02:17:48 <Wolf01> 'night 02:17:51 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 02:45:31 *** alask0ud has quit IRC 03:12:47 *** orudge` has quit IRC 03:13:15 *** orudge` has joined #openttd 03:13:15 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge` 03:35:32 *** orudge` has quit IRC 03:37:33 *** orudge` has joined #openttd 03:37:33 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge` 03:41:49 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd 03:55:51 *** orudge` has quit IRC 03:56:05 *** orudge` has joined #openttd 03:56:05 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge` 03:56:55 *** Biolunar_ has joined #openttd 04:03:51 *** Biolunar has quit IRC 04:13:52 *** orudge` has quit IRC 04:14:05 *** orudge` has joined #openttd 04:14:05 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge` 04:26:22 *** orudge` has quit IRC 04:26:54 *** orudge` has joined #openttd 04:26:55 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge` 04:30:38 *** chomwitt1 has quit IRC 04:33:53 *** MonkeyDrone has quit IRC 04:40:41 *** orudge` has quit IRC 04:40:55 *** orudge` has joined #openttd 04:40:56 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge` 04:42:39 *** MonkeyDrone has joined #openttd 04:58:41 *** orudge` has quit IRC 04:58:55 *** orudge` has joined #openttd 04:58:55 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge` 05:00:32 *** glx has quit IRC 05:12:37 *** orudge` has quit IRC 05:12:44 *** orudge` has joined #openttd 05:12:45 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge` 05:22:13 *** lorran78 has quit IRC 05:27:02 *** orudge` has quit IRC 05:27:14 *** orudge` has joined #openttd 05:27:14 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge` 05:37:31 *** orudge` has quit IRC 05:38:06 *** orudge` has joined #openttd 05:38:06 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge` 06:14:37 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 06:41:41 *** BluesInTheNet has joined #openttd 06:48:52 *** BluesInTheNet has quit IRC 08:08:44 *** Supercheese has left #openttd 08:09:54 *** Sova has joined #openttd 09:11:27 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 09:56:21 *** smoke_fumus has quit IRC 10:03:59 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 10:22:55 *** tokai has joined #openttd 10:22:56 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 10:23:08 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 10:29:41 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 10:34:28 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 10:34:40 <Wolf01> o/ 10:42:14 <crem> \o 10:42:45 <__ln__> o/ + \o = / 10:46:36 <Wolf01> That's... weird 10:56:14 *** JezK has quit IRC 11:09:41 <crem> What is wierd is that 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + ... = -1/12 11:10:49 <__ln__> It most certainly doesn't equal that. 11:13:13 <crem> For some definition of infinite sums, it does! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1_%2B_2_%2B_3_%2B_4_%2B_%E2%8B%AF 11:13:16 <Wolf01> If you do it by hand no, but with the theorem yes, too bad it involves complex numbers so it's pure fantasyt 11:13:49 <crem> I does not need complex numbers. 11:14:30 <crem> And people say it's used a lot in quantum physics, where it "agrees with experiments", whatever it means. 11:14:47 *** Sova has quit IRC 11:16:27 <Wolf01> It's because it's a concept and not a real thing, like if you turn on and of a light for a x number of times, if you sum the states you will get that the light was half turned on and half turned off 11:19:04 <crem> Yes, that depends on rules of summation. Classical is a limit of partial sums, which doesn't exist in this case. But if you change definition to limit of averages of partial sums produced so far, then it's clearly equal to 0.5. (and when "classical" sum exists, it will always be equal to "new" sum, so it's extention of the definition). 11:19:10 <Wolf01> It's like defining that 0+0+0+... = 0 and 1+1+1+1+... = 1 and 1+0+1+0+1+.. = 0.5 11:19:35 <crem> nope 11:20:16 <crem> 1+1+1+1 = -1/2 actually :) 11:20:36 <crem> so 1+0+1+0. 11:20:44 <Wolf01> 1+1+1+ are states not numbers 11:20:54 <Wolf01> on+off+on+off 11:21:10 <Wolf01> Sorry if I used numbers for practicity 11:21:41 <Wolf01> Poor perfornance warning converting int to boolean 11:21:44 <crem> 1-1+1-1+.. = 0.5. <= that's on off on off. And 1+0+0+0+0+0=1 is "on, then keep on, then keep on" 11:21:55 <crem> That's visual studio's thing. 11:22:15 <crem> Visual studio's warnings are often silly. 11:22:21 <Wolf01> 1+1+1+1+ means on and keep on, not changing state 11:22:32 <Wolf01> 1+0+1+0 means changing state 11:22:37 <V453000> ._. 11:22:48 <Wolf01> 1+0+0+0 mean turn on then off and keep off 11:24:12 <crem> No, you mean sequence (of partial sums), for example 1,0,1,0,1 <= that's on-off. And that sequence of partial sums is produced of 1-1+1-1+1.. 11:24:18 <crem> But, anyway. 11:24:55 <crem> I just shared a weird thing, not that I wanted to discuss it much. :) 11:28:31 *** TheMask96 has quit IRC 11:29:42 <Wolf01> I still can't get how turning on a light could be summed, you couldn't have 2x light by turning it on twice and you can't have 10x light by keeping it on for 10 seconds, but you can approximate it to be on and off for half of the time (which is where you had 5 seconds light, but no 0.5 light and neither 5x light) 11:30:38 <Wolf01> -1/12, 0.5 light etc are valid only in a specific context 11:30:51 <Wolf01> Which isn't the reality 11:31:23 *** Sova has joined #openttd 11:34:10 *** TheMask96 has joined #openttd 11:40:21 *** bwn has quit IRC 11:47:02 *** orudge` has quit IRC 11:47:44 *** bwn has joined #openttd 12:01:02 *** bwn has quit IRC 12:05:05 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 12:18:02 *** bwn has joined #openttd 12:40:36 *** bwn has quit IRC 12:42:56 *** bwn has joined #openttd 12:53:17 *** bwn has quit IRC 12:54:48 *** theawe has joined #openttd 12:55:40 *** theawe has left #openttd 12:56:57 *** bwn has joined #openttd 13:32:44 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 13:39:38 *** maciozo has joined #openttd 13:42:34 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 13:53:14 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 14:14:48 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 14:33:01 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 14:35:29 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 14:45:10 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 14:47:05 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 14:59:22 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 15:12:51 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 15:13:15 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 15:38:46 *** Alberth has joined #openttd 15:38:46 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth 15:38:53 <Alberth> o/ 15:38:53 <Wolf01> o/ 15:42:40 <Redirect_Left> \o 15:59:28 *** Sova has quit IRC 16:27:01 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 16:29:20 *** roidal has joined #openttd 16:53:41 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 17:01:41 *** TheMask96 has quit IRC 17:06:21 *** TheMask96 has joined #openttd 17:16:29 *** Progman has joined #openttd 17:25:01 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 17:45:59 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 17:46:04 <Wolf01> Quak 17:46:34 <Wolf01> frosch123 https://github.com/andythenorth/NotRoadTypes/issues/16 17:46:58 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 17:47:12 <Wolf01> Cat was here? 17:47:30 <Wolf01> Totally a cat, I didn't even notice it :P 17:47:59 <frosch123> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/py8cldchv <- i also had a list 17:48:21 <Wolf01> But my list have a working patch 17:48:24 <Wolf01> *has 17:48:49 <frosch123> oh, i thought it was only a list of things to do :o 17:52:47 <frosch123> there are some occurences of "rail" in the comments, which should be "road" 17:52:59 <Wolf01> Yes, I know 17:53:20 <Wolf01> It has been hard to understand what the rail convert command did.. at 2am :P 17:54:27 <Wolf01> But I took it piece by piece and tried to learn what they did, then I rewritten most of it 17:54:46 <Wolf01> I copied the comments for reference 17:55:19 <frosch123> the levelcrossing check should be after the "HasType", so it does not error on tram-levelcrossing when converting road 17:56:00 <frosch123> if (!rtids.HasType(to_type.basetype)) return error; <- that should be a "continue", noe "return" 17:56:51 <Wolf01> Right, it's inside a loop 17:57:16 <frosch123> it leaks the iterator, but the function sshould also just ignore those tiles 17:57:33 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 17:58:24 <frosch123> it also needs to check for present roadvehicles 17:58:34 <frosch123> and not convert to types where they are stuck on 17:58:37 <Wolf01> Yes, I left that part out 17:58:49 <Wolf01> It's on todo list 17:59:37 <Wolf01> I'm thinking to publish the local branch, it's a big patch 18:01:59 <frosch123> there are no yapf caches for road btw 18:04:11 <frosch123> i wonder whether rail conversion even works correctly :p 18:04:22 <frosch123> i think there are various cases where you can depower vehicles 18:06:14 *** glx has joined #openttd 18:06:14 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 18:06:44 <Wolf01> Ok, now I understand why I put that check after (the hastype), because it asserts when is not road and the switch on tile type intercepts that 18:07:04 <frosch123> yes, we have that issue in multiple places 18:07:51 <frosch123> we need a version of HasTileRoadType that does not assert, but return false 18:07:58 <frosch123> like GetAnyRoadBits 18:08:24 <frosch123> we do not want that in all cases, since the assert is useful sometimes, but in many cases it is also the good behaviour 18:08:41 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 18:08:41 <Wolf01> Just check for tiletype and return false if !assert content 18:09:03 <frosch123> usuually we have different functions 18:09:10 <frosch123> like IsRoadStop and IsRoadStopTile 18:09:18 <Wolf01> Yes, I found them 18:09:21 <frosch123> the function without "Tile" asserts 18:09:26 <frosch123> we have those in many places 18:11:53 <Wolf01> But function names are starting to be weird... HasTileRoadTypeTile and even HasTileRoadTypeRoadTile 18:15:36 <Alberth> At least your name uses more words, unlike https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_buffalo_Buffalo_buffalo_buffalo_buffalo_Buffalo_buffalo 18:17:31 <Wolf01> Only because TiletileileTileTile doesn't have a meaning 18:17:53 <Alberth> :) 18:19:38 <frosch123> Wolf01: GetAnyRoadTypes 18:19:49 <frosch123> HasAnyRoadTypes 18:20:00 <frosch123> consistent to GetAnyRoadBits 18:20:15 *** Progman has quit IRC 18:20:50 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 18:22:07 <frosch123> possibly also RoadTypeIdentifiers::FromTileIfValid 18:23:07 *** Biolunar_ has quit IRC 18:23:27 *** Progman has joined #openttd 18:23:59 *** Progman has quit IRC 18:27:28 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 18:27:53 <andythenorth> :) 18:28:51 <frosch123> ho 18:30:10 <Wolf01> o/ 18:31:03 <Wolf01> <frosch123> possibly also RoadTypeIdentifiers::FromTileIfValid <- isn't it a nonsense? 18:31:55 <Wolf01> If not valid return invalid :P 18:36:28 <Wolf01> Btw, if valid is the one with the assert or is the other one? 18:43:39 <frosch123> IFValid has no assert 18:43:46 <frosch123> that's the same as for the pool functions 18:43:58 <frosch123> and for UnpackIfValid 18:44:56 <frosch123> consistent naming :) 18:45:46 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27695 /trunk/src/lang (french.txt spanish.txt) (2016-12-14 19:45:37 +0100 ) 18:45:48 <DorpsGek> -Update from Eints: 18:45:49 <DorpsGek> spanish: 4 changes by SilverSurferZzZ 18:45:50 <DorpsGek> french: 26 changes by glx 18:46:28 <Wolf01> It's not the name which bothers me, it's the meaning, because that "valid" suggests me about a valid RoadTypeIdentifier, but in this case it's the right TileType 18:47:18 <frosch123> all IfValid functions return some "invalid" value if the parameter is invalid. all non-IfValid functions assert 18:47:39 <Wolf01> Ok 18:48:00 <Wolf01> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/p6ndtouby could it be like this? 18:48:41 <frosch123> i would make it a member, but yes 18:49:17 <frosch123> possibly the if part could also be some "MayTileTypeHaveRoad" 18:49:50 <frosch123> something like "MayHaveBridgeAbove" 18:50:09 <frosch123> then all the other functions can use that function to either assert, or return invalid 18:50:38 <frosch123> possibly "MayHaveRoad" is more consistent to "MayHaveBridgeAbove" 18:53:09 <Wolf01> Shouldn't we put these functions in some other header, like tile_map? 18:53:18 <Wolf01> The MayHaveBridgeAbove is in afterload 18:53:45 <frosch123> yeah, it was more prominent in the past 18:53:53 <frosch123> i think it got refactored away at some point 18:54:00 <frosch123> when all tiles got those bits 18:54:06 <Wolf01> It's still used only there, but I think it could be used for houses too 18:54:41 <Wolf01> I found a similar check when building houses on my other patch 18:54:42 <frosch123> if you check ottd 1.1. source or seomthing, then MayHaveBridgeAbove was in bridge_map.hpp 18:55:25 <frosch123> MayHaveBridgeAbove is a compatibility function from the past, it was hidden in afterload, so it is not used anymore :) 18:55:39 <Wolf01> :) 18:55:47 <frosch123> about the road stuff: for me it all belongs to GetAnyRoadBits 18:55:47 <Wolf01> Btw, got to go 18:56:02 <frosch123> bye 18:56:09 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 18:56:50 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 18:58:16 * andythenorth pulls changes 19:06:43 <andythenorth> blocker to making a newgrf: need a name 19:06:53 <frosch123> red hog 19:06:55 <andythenorth> I suppose adding roadtypes to Termite is bad? 19:07:08 <andythenorth> I have so many fricking grfs to remember to add to my games :) 19:07:14 <andythenorth> I should just combine them :P 19:07:35 <supermop> road termite 19:07:44 <andythenorth> nml compiles per grf, then decompile with grfcodec, merge, recompile 19:07:46 <supermop> set dependencies? 19:07:47 <andythenorth> ‘might have string issues' 19:17:30 <supermop> hog road? 19:17:55 <frosch123> what roadtypes do you want to add? 19:18:26 <frosch123> maybe that gives a more descriptive name :) 19:18:26 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 19:18:27 <andythenorth> initially tram with and without catenary 19:18:28 <Rubidium> frosch123: airroad, waterroad and railroad? 19:18:37 <andythenorth> thunder road? 19:18:41 <supermop> haha 19:18:47 <Rubidium> abbey road 19:18:51 <supermop> thunder-less road 19:19:00 <Rubidium> rocky road 19:19:18 <supermop> trolley wire 19:19:19 <frosch123> sounds like you want something like "chips" 19:19:23 <frosch123> maybe some "sauce" 19:19:59 <frosch123> how about just "sauce"? :p 19:20:22 <frosch123> roadvehicles can then be on the sauce 19:20:23 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 19:20:32 <Rubidium> chips (en_GB) or chips (en_US)? 19:20:47 <frosch123> chips the station set 19:21:10 <Rubidium> oh, even more meanings for the word... lovely 19:21:28 <frosch123> maybe andy just wants vinegar 19:24:03 <andythenorth> Rubidium: rocky road is not bad 19:24:14 <andythenorth> but probably players will report that it’s not rocky 19:24:16 <andythenorth> 'bug' 19:24:21 <supermop> hog road 19:24:49 <andythenorth> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1143690#p1143690 19:25:34 <supermop> hmm name it "this road destroys all original trains" 19:25:51 <supermop> orr "this road turns off inflation" 19:26:02 * andythenorth should probably just call it “Trams_with_catenary+trams_without_catenary+normal_road_+private_industrial_road.grf 19:26:04 <andythenorth> “ 19:26:38 <andythenorth> anything other than 100% literal is very dangerous when dealing with people 19:27:20 <andythenorth> I should rename Iron Horse to “12 steam trains 12 diesel trains 8 electric trains 4 carriages 32 wagons” 19:27:34 <andythenorth> but they’d need the intro dates and the stats and stuff too 19:28:32 <supermop> "Andy Presents: Some trains for your consideration" 19:28:47 <andythenorth> actually I’m probably being mean about people who are genuinely on the spectrum, which is not fair or good 19:28:57 <supermop> "Andy Presents: some types of roads 19:28:58 <supermop> " 19:29:17 <supermop> minimalist / functionalist branding is all well and good 19:29:36 <andythenorth> “box of bolts" 19:29:40 <andythenorth> “2x4 finished pine” 19:31:16 <andythenorth> “3 paintbrushes" 19:32:18 <andythenorth> mongoose.grf? 19:32:21 <andythenorth> aardvark.grf? 19:32:38 <andythenorth> “Eating your termite since 2016" 19:33:56 <andythenorth> supermop: can you make this grf? o_O 19:34:07 <supermop> haha 19:34:07 <andythenorth> I have enough grfs :P 19:34:14 <supermop> make as in name it? 19:34:41 <supermop> repackage as private label and release it myself? 19:34:59 <supermop> hmm last minute flight to memphis costs more than a computer 19:35:26 <supermop> do you have to go to the airport to buy bereavement fares? 19:35:42 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 19:36:44 <supermop> supermop presents: Andy's GRF 19:36:54 *** bwn has quit IRC 19:37:26 *** bwn has joined #openttd 19:38:10 *** aard has joined #openttd 19:38:15 <Wolf01> Got to go, more far away :P 19:38:22 <Wolf01> 'night 19:38:26 <supermop> bye 19:38:27 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 19:47:20 <frosch123> it's fullmoon 19:47:45 <andythenorth> fullmoon.grf 19:48:20 <andythenorth> ach it’s just a name 19:48:36 <andythenorth> how about I just put the types in Road Hog, with a parameter? 19:48:37 <andythenorth> :P 19:48:41 <andythenorth> do kittens die? 19:51:31 <supermop> termite ate your kittens? 19:51:54 <supermop> take other names from TTO song playlist titles? 19:53:00 <andythenorth> what is the objection to providing the road/railtypes in the same grf as the vehicles? 19:54:03 <supermop> seems contrary to best practices 19:54:10 <andythenorth> ah 19:54:14 <andythenorth> ‘best practice’ 19:54:21 <andythenorth> two words together I have learnt to distrust :D 19:54:41 <supermop> someone might want to use your roads with HEQS but no RH, 19:54:56 <supermop> or RH with someone else's roads 19:55:29 <andythenorth> that’s ok, they can fork it :) 19:55:40 <frosch123> andythenorth: you kill people's option to use a different track grf 19:55:54 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 19:55:59 <frosch123> it's a brand trap 19:56:06 <frosch123> people may only use andy grfs 19:56:09 <supermop> egrvts would be a good candidate too if Zepheris (sp?) pops up again 19:56:11 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 19:56:29 <supermop> at which point you should fork and support an andy only ottd 19:56:34 <andythenorth> I would put the roadtypes on a parameter 19:56:40 <andythenorth> it’s a valid use of parameter 19:56:49 <supermop> too complex for some users 19:57:05 <supermop> idk i generally prefer excess modularity 19:57:21 <supermop> im sure it's fine for a test grf 19:57:42 <supermop> but i dont know that it's best for the grf ecosystem long term 19:58:41 <supermop> also i want to be able to load a road grf with no trolley wire at all, even if that means some of my RH trams get disabled 19:59:02 <supermop> or a grf with no dirt roads, even if that disables my HEQs mining trucks 19:59:05 <andythenorth> I think that more likely, most players never load termite or equivalent road grf 19:59:18 <andythenorth> so the design of the sets is compromised in use 19:59:54 *** drac_boy has joined #openttd 20:00:01 <supermop> andythenorth: people try to play FIRS with original vehicles too 20:00:30 <drac_boy> I know this isn't exactly a good place to ask but any of you know if theres a particular term or not so much for these type of steam tenders that are part fixed and part articulated axles altogether? 20:01:02 <supermop> are you going to include trains, RVs, ships and aircraft, into FIRS by default, to be turned off by parameter? 20:02:00 <supermop> there is already precedent for newgrf features to fail silently due to lack of supporting grf 20:02:57 <supermop> arguably, RH with steam trams running under wires is failing safer than Firs with no wagon to carry scrap metal etc 20:03:15 <drac_boy> 'RH'? 20:03:20 <supermop> road hog 20:03:50 <andythenorth> supermop: nah, but people know about industries 20:04:01 <andythenorth> I could provide the FIRS industries and cargos separately 20:04:03 <drac_boy> oh ok 20:04:08 <andythenorth> but that would be…odd eh 20:04:15 <supermop> andythenorth: i still see lots of posts about lack of wagon to carry X 20:04:18 <drac_boy> either way this is what I meant re these type of tenders just in case anyone here does know https://nycshs.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/pages-from-pt-tenders.jpg 20:04:26 <andythenorth> agreed 20:04:50 <drac_boy> supermop one silly question, are these "carry X" cargos even defined by cargo class too? (not just cargo id alone) 20:04:55 <andythenorth> but FIRS doesn’t modify the available industries and cargos due to lack of cargos 20:05:07 <andythenorth> whereas Iron Horse removes trains due to lack of Termite 20:05:09 <supermop> andythenorth: what i am saying is, iron horse works fine (no metros) with no track grf 20:05:29 <andythenorth> drac_boy: that’s just a tender 20:05:40 <supermop> road hog, all vehicles will work with default roads and tramways 20:05:54 <andythenorth> nah 20:05:57 <supermop> steam tram still runs on powered tramway 20:06:01 <andythenorth> some vehicles will be dropped 20:06:10 <andythenorth> trams should be fine though 20:06:14 <drac_boy> supermop same for 2cc and I think some another north america grf of some sort .. although it then makes it difficult to set up a low-distance high-capacity rail setup due to no matching locos (as they were all under the 3rdrail-only class) 20:06:23 <supermop> drac_boy: i dont think original vehicles support cargo class 20:06:39 <drac_boy> at least last I recall 2cc had its own grf to provide only 3rd rail if you didn't want to use the newrail grf that added it 20:06:55 <andythenorth> drac_boy: it’s a centipede tender 20:07:03 <drac_boy> supermop...how many people even still use the original vehicle? I had thought they all moved onto the opengrf thing by now 20:07:03 <andythenorth> no idea why I know that 20:07:08 <andythenorth> drac_boy: http://www.steamlocomotive.com/tenders/#centipede 20:07:12 <andythenorth> everything you wanted to know about tenders 20:07:32 <supermop> andythenorth: but there would still be a subset of trucks and buses that will run regardless of road grf 20:07:44 <drac_boy> andythenorth ohhh centipede hm that makes sense, why didn't I think of that word before .. thanks a lot anyhow :P 20:07:58 <Alberth> euhm, 56km/h for a steel wagon? 20:08:20 <supermop> drac_boy: lots of players, especially new players use original vehicles 20:08:37 <Alberth> me uses them too 20:08:41 <supermop> because they may not know that new vehicles are needed or even that they exist 20:08:43 <drac_boy> supermop does that not neglect the point of even providing the opengrf in first place? 20:08:47 <Alberth> nice and simple, not too much choice 20:08:56 <drac_boy> I mean opengrf can be bundled with ottd .. while the original grf can't be 20:09:16 <supermop> drac_boy: most people do not know that ogfx+ stuff exists 20:09:26 <drac_boy> supermop so how did they even know ottd existed? 20:09:50 <Alberth> even if you bundle it with openttd, they wouldn't find it 20:09:58 <supermop> i dont know, i found it years ago while searching online to figure out how to run TTO on XP 20:10:39 <drac_boy> supermop..well... clicking on ottd gives you opengfx right away so I dunno what your point seem to be 20:10:43 <Alberth> even if you ever manage to solve the problem of a good criterium for selecting which newgrfs to add 20:10:59 <supermop> patching the game to make original vehicles behave like ogfx+ vehicles is an option 20:11:10 <andythenorth> oops 20:11:16 <supermop> but that violates the spirit of the game's primary mission 20:11:16 <andythenorth> we’re having a ‘most people’ argument :) 20:11:19 <andythenorth> and I started it 20:11:21 <andythenorth> they never go well 20:11:26 <supermop> andythenorth: this is all your fault 20:11:27 <Alberth> :) 20:11:29 <drac_boy> andythenorth either way just asking as haven't tried the grf but what is Termite? 20:11:35 <andythenorth> exactly 20:11:37 <Alberth> tracks 20:11:46 <Alberth> and little animals too 20:11:53 <andythenorth> it’s the tracks that are needed to make Iron Horse work 20:12:13 <Alberth> does that speed up steel wagon? 20:12:20 <drac_boy> andythenorth oh ok..been a while since I last saw thread on that grf .. do you have a website for iron horse now or its still forum-only? 20:12:33 <supermop> drac_boy: even though many of us here often play with some or many new grfs, philosophically, there is a goal of the OpenTTD project to provide a faithful clone of the original TTD experience 20:12:48 <supermop> and that means including the original limitations where appropriate 20:13:34 <andythenorth> http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/iron-horse/push/LATEST/docs/html/get_started.html 20:13:36 <supermop> the new grf system allows each of us to chose to what degree we want an 'original' or 'improved' experience on a per-game basis 20:13:39 <drac_boy> supermop if its supposed to have original limit then why is there no option to have the original station cargo? or the vehicle limit? etc?? ;) 20:13:49 <andythenorth> drac_boy: the docs aren’t 100% finished ^^ 20:14:03 <drac_boy> andythenorth ah nice, looking now to catch up ... brb :P 20:14:10 <andythenorth> ignoring arguments about ‘most players’, which we can’t substantiate 20:14:24 <andythenorth> the problems I have with making Yet Another GRF are: 20:14:24 <supermop> drac_boy: you can set limit of vehicles to some low number if you want 20:14:37 <andythenorth> - I have to get a devzone project, and setting up the repo never works 20:14:51 <andythenorth> - I have to remember a new name to type in devzone 20:14:58 <andythenorth> - I need another shell window and colour scheme for it 20:15:04 <supermop> andythenorth: pay off someone else to do it for you 20:15:21 <andythenorth> - I have to change the content for Yet Another GRF docs 20:15:38 <andythenorth> - I have to make another release thread (I can’t even find the Termite thread) :P 20:15:47 * andythenorth is just having a grumble 20:16:00 <andythenorth> it’s inertia eh though? 20:16:18 <andythenorth> another repo, another changelog, another python virtualenv, another compile and makefile to maintain 20:16:31 <andythenorth> another grfid, bananas entry, bug tracker 20:16:56 <supermop> andythenorth: go ahead and do a road hog roads grf now if you want - until nrt is in a x.y.z release it probably doesnt matter how proper it is 20:17:07 <andythenorth> just for the perception of player choice, and a default state where some / most vehicles are not visible in the grf :) 20:17:12 <andythenorth> let me finish my whining supermop :P 20:17:25 <andythenorth> I get the costs, but not many benefits eh? 20:17:33 <andythenorth> ok whining over 20:17:55 <supermop> heh 20:18:12 <andythenorth> foobar made Termite 20:18:19 <Alberth> you get an excuse for much play testing :p 20:21:11 <drac_boy> andythenorth hmm ironhorse does have some interesting locomotives across what I can see of two gauges with three different electric options 20:21:55 <supermop> road grf name: ANDY - Andy Not interested in Doing this Yet 20:22:01 <drac_boy> am I correct that Raven looks like the NER EF1 in uk? 20:22:08 <supermop> drac_boy: yep 20:22:17 <drac_boy> as I thought that body resembled the one pikka had 20:22:19 <drac_boy> heh figured 20:22:30 <supermop> iron horse is 'british-inspired' 20:22:42 <andythenorth> and Irish 20:22:55 <drac_boy> Little Bear .. that was a nice locomotive .. hobbled by the breech axe happening very shortly after production sadly :-s 20:23:18 <supermop> with future plans to have by parameter 'Andes Inspired' and 'SAR inspired' 20:23:25 <drac_boy> Cargo Sprinter looks like someone repainted the red Cargosprinter from germany tho? :-> 20:23:37 <supermop> I use the Little Bear almost everywhere 20:23:45 <andythenorth> is it too boss? 20:24:02 <supermop> no, the other locomotives are too boss 20:24:09 <drac_boy> this anyhow http://www.bahnbilder.de/1024/sfz-tersus-x-691-003-494556.jpg 20:24:16 <supermop> so a train 4 tiles or less doesn't need them 20:24:31 <supermop> gridiron overkill for short freight 20:24:43 <drac_boy> just curious tho .. what is Double Juice supposed to be relatively modelled after? 20:25:02 <supermop> fictitious-ish 20:25:18 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 20:25:23 <andythenorth> drac_boy: yes cargo sprinter is a Windhoff 20:25:26 <supermop> a high speed bi-mode locomotive 20:26:01 <andythenorth> Double Juice is invented, but https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_88 20:26:11 <andythenorth> and similar Vossloh and other electro-diesels 20:26:21 <drac_boy> supermop heh ok..well tbh it may not be that fictitious if it was a 2015+ locomotive tho .. Today's Railway Europe magazine seem to keep talking about many new last-mile hybrid locomotives being contracted for or already in process of being certified 20:26:25 <andythenorth> ‘last mile’ diesel is in fashion 20:27:03 <drac_boy> in somes cases eg Alstorm has one model that is either 100% electric .. or with a slight lower total output as to make room for a single genset in oen end of the same body 20:28:18 *** smoke_fumus has joined #openttd 20:28:44 <drac_boy> andythenorth oh I almost forgot but did you know that Vossloh already sold off their railroad side of business somewhere last year? so no more vossloh-built locomotives for good 20:28:59 * drac_boy read a column about that in the europe magazine 20:29:25 <drac_boy> at least I think voith is still into the diesel transmission business tho 20:30:21 *** smoke_fumus has quit IRC 20:31:10 <drac_boy> andythenorth mind you I also know there were the electro-diesel locomotives on RhB but for some time now their diesel side had been used very little (probabably partially due to much more of the network being wired at this rate) 20:31:19 <drac_boy> and yep swizterland ^ 20:32:27 *** Alberth has left #openttd 20:32:43 <drac_boy> heh heres an interesting photo...its under wire but still running on its diesel powerplant instead apparently :P http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4129/5182348571_8d10d86172.jpg 20:32:50 <drac_boy> anyway thats enough from me about this little topic for now tho ;) 20:36:34 <drac_boy> either way I hope you have fun with working more on Iron Horse if thats the case andy ;) (sorry about that I dunno if I'll ever play it tho? oh well!) 20:38:10 <supermop> drac_boy: iron horse is great for quick games on small maps 20:38:16 <supermop> not too complx 20:41:36 <supermop> i've played it on 64x64 maps a lot 20:42:18 <drac_boy> heh well last I checked I still only can have up to 3 railtypes so .. dunno which one would had to be left out .. to our own tho :) 20:43:57 *** LordRyan has joined #openttd 20:44:28 <drac_boy> but anyway not to cut this too short but I need to afk for a bit .. might be back later or if not after supper then instead (its 15:45 now) 20:44:33 <LordRyan> i'm playing openttd on arch but, after watching a playthrough, it's almost like half of the game settings are missing 20:44:39 *** drac_boy has left #openttd 20:45:22 <LordRyan> https://i.imgur.com/FgHuDft.png shouldn't there be at least two more submenus for vehicles? 20:49:45 <supermop> sub menus for what? 20:51:02 <LordRyan> supermop: this page here: -> https://wiki.openttd.org/Advanced_Settings/Vehicles <- shows two more submenus in `vehicles` as well as many other options, that I don't have. 20:52:23 <supermop> hmm thats from 1.3.1, so i guess those setting got moved 20:53:09 <supermop> i believe all of the 'max number of X vehicle' type setting got moved to the 'limitations' category 20:54:54 <supermop> the acceleration settings would be under 'physics' 20:54:58 <LordRyan> oh, looks like autorenew got moved to company 20:55:05 <LordRyan> i guess i should start using the search bar more :P 20:55:35 *** Gja has joined #openttd 20:56:38 *** supermop_ has joined #openttd 21:01:45 *** roidal has quit IRC 21:02:56 *** supermop has quit IRC 21:21:46 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 21:22:11 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 21:33:44 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 21:39:28 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 21:58:56 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 22:02:18 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 22:02:45 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 22:13:22 *** gelignite has quit IRC 22:24:13 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 22:28:09 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 22:29:30 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 22:29:41 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 22:34:26 *** Gja has quit IRC 23:07:14 *** Biolunar has joined #openttd 23:09:35 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 23:10:20 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 23:14:41 *** crem has quit IRC 23:18:43 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has joined #openttd 23:24:14 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 23:26:43 *** drac_boy has joined #openttd 23:26:49 <drac_boy> back like I said :) heh 23:27:35 <drac_boy> so whos around this time? 23:29:00 *** aard has quit IRC 23:38:08 *** supermop_ has quit IRC 23:41:16 <drac_boy> hm also just curious about it after looking at the Iron Horse before .. is there any particular restrictions on having something hosted on the devzone site? 23:43:52 *** JezK has joined #openttd 23:45:30 *** FLHerne_ has joined #openttd 23:45:30 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 23:50:45 *** chomwitt has joined #openttd 23:51:44 <drac_boy> hi chomwitt, interesting name 23:52:13 <drac_boy> you in greece? 23:56:12 *** FLHerne_ has quit IRC