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00:00:13 <_dp_> too much realism :p 00:00:26 <Eddi|zuHause> no such thing :p 00:01:54 <_dp_> I kinda like instabreaks, sometimes it's the only way to stop trains from crashing) 00:02:17 <_dp_> emergency rail removal :) 00:04:09 <Eddi|zuHause> the algorithm above doesn't really remove that 00:04:29 <Eddi|zuHause> only disallowing removing rails with reservation would change that 00:04:38 <_dp_> well, yeah, but you said something about "train in the way" earlier :p 00:05:01 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 00:05:14 <Eddi|zuHause> but that's completely separate 00:05:26 <Eddi|zuHause> could allow that as a cheat, or something 00:06:24 <Eddi|zuHause> the convert rail tool also would need a check for whether the new speed limit could be met 00:06:31 <Eddi|zuHause> which may be too much work 00:06:45 <Eddi|zuHause> so better to just scratch the whole idea :p 00:10:33 *** chomwitt has quit IRC 00:11:41 <_dp_> just slowing down asap in case of converting seams reasonable enough 00:11:56 *** gelignite has quit IRC 00:12:01 <_dp_> otherwise you can't even convert underneath a moving traing which is going to be super annoying 00:12:55 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 00:14:41 <_dp_> oh, now I remembered why it was so hard to calculate braking when I though about it 00:14:59 <_dp_> it was supposed to be an event-based system without any ticks 00:15:13 <_dp_> so need to calculate exact times for everything 00:17:40 <_dp_> amazing, I have two trains on one track and they still haven't crashed. 00:17:48 <_dp_> how do people even crash them xD 00:18:02 *** chomwitt has joined #openttd 00:18:46 <_dp_> have an idea for #coop, nsnw - no signal network xD 00:19:22 <Eddi|zuHause> back in the days, brianetta used to run networks like that 00:19:58 <Eddi|zuHause> timed so the trains would reach the sidings at the correct time 00:20:17 <_dp_> ah, timed 00:20:38 <_dp_> mine is osnw then I guess, one (path) signal network) 00:20:52 <Eddi|zuHause> it might not be possible anymore, because trains check paths at station exit 00:21:02 <_dp_> nothing's timed but reservations do the trick 00:22:22 <Eddi|zuHause> well, reservations are meant to be crash-safe (as long as the player doesn't screw with the network) 00:23:42 <_dp_> they are kind of dull though since they reserve complete path and just stop train if they cant 00:23:54 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 00:24:13 <_dp_> wonder if there is a way to pack several trains going same way on one track with reservations 00:24:20 <Eddi|zuHause> it's not an automatic moving-block signalling system :p 00:24:51 <_dp_> huh? sound like minecraft 00:25:27 <Eddi|zuHause> not that kind of block :p 00:26:01 <_dp_> xD 00:26:14 <Eddi|zuHause> a signal block is the space between two signals, which only one train may occupy 00:26:49 <_dp_> yeah, I figured already once I got what block are you talking about) 00:26:52 <Eddi|zuHause> a "moving block" is a modern system where a virtual signal moves ahead of the train (braking distance away) 00:27:33 <_dp_> is that some real signaling system? 00:27:59 <Eddi|zuHause> moving block systems allow very fast speeds (because the driver doesn't need to see the signal) and very tight packing of trains 00:28:33 <Eddi|zuHause> ETCS level 2 might be moving block 00:28:47 <_dp_> why does it even need a driver :p 00:29:14 <Eddi|zuHause> that's level 3 :p 00:29:51 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, you need these computerized signals for speeds > 160km/h 00:30:17 <Eddi|zuHause> so high speed tracks are generally equipped with such a system 00:30:39 <Eddi|zuHause> also, some metro systems use this for the tight packing ability 00:31:07 *** Hiddenfunstuff has quit IRC 00:33:01 <_dp_> japan certainly uses some other tight packing system xD 00:33:21 <Eddi|zuHause> not that kind of packing :p 00:36:52 *** chomwitt has quit IRC 00:36:53 <Wolf01> 'night 00:36:56 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 00:43:49 *** chomwitt has joined #openttd 00:47:59 <_dp_> what's the maximum length of a train part, 8/8? 00:48:56 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 00:50:17 <_dp_> iron horse seems to have longer wagons 00:50:18 *** chomwitt has quit IRC 00:50:28 <Eddi|zuHause> those are articulated vehicles 00:50:35 <_dp_> ah 00:51:34 <Eddi|zuHause> for extra fun, look at CETS 00:53:21 <_dp_> is it on bananas? 00:54:53 <Eddi|zuHause> no, it's not released (or finished, for that matter), but you find it on devzone 00:55:57 <_dp_> all I found is this https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/2456/a_test_trailer.png 00:56:27 <_dp_> ah, should've checked repository, not files) 00:56:34 <_dp_> totally not used to devzone 00:58:07 <_dp_> nah, I give up, too much code :p 00:58:20 <Eddi|zuHause> https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/cets/25/ 01:03:57 <_dp_> omg 01:04:25 <_dp_> how does that even 01:04:29 <_dp_> what 01:04:52 <Eddi|zuHause> i know, must have been a total crazyperson who came up with that :p 01:04:59 <_dp_> that's some dark sorcery you have there :p 01:06:28 <_dp_> well, whatever it appears to be, as long as for a game everything is < 8/8 it should be fine) 01:06:30 <_dp_> <= 01:09:27 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, 8 is max length. longer vehicles can only be articulated 01:09:36 <Eddi|zuHause> like, my wagons of length 10 are 3+4+3 01:13:10 <_dp_> just replacing / with rounddivsu seems to have fixed issues with weird wagon lengths 01:20:05 <_dp_> probably not all of them but definitely some 01:59:14 *** glx has quit IRC 03:04:17 *** DDR has quit IRC 03:05:06 *** DDR has joined #openttd 03:05:21 *** DDR_ has joined #openttd 03:06:36 *** DDR_ has quit IRC 04:45:55 *** Exec has quit IRC 04:46:58 *** Exec has joined #openttd 04:52:40 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 05:24:40 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 05:34:45 *** Cubey has quit IRC 06:04:46 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 06:49:40 *** orudge has quit IRC 06:49:57 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 07:03:11 *** Biolunar has joined #openttd 07:28:54 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has joined #openttd 07:32:16 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has quit IRC 07:36:16 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 07:36:29 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 07:41:53 *** supermop_ has quit IRC 07:52:37 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 08:08:26 *** Biolunar has quit IRC 08:10:35 *** orudge has joined #openttd 08:21:13 *** Jomann has joined #openttd 08:21:50 *** tycoondemon has quit IRC 08:22:05 *** tycoondemon has joined #openttd 08:24:03 *** Jomann has quit IRC 08:28:40 *** Jomann has joined #openttd 08:37:15 *** Jomann has quit IRC 08:37:43 *** Progman has joined #openttd 08:37:47 *** mindlesstux has quit IRC 08:38:17 *** mindlesstux has joined #openttd 08:41:56 *** Jomann has joined #openttd 08:55:46 *** Jomann has quit IRC 09:01:21 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 09:05:28 *** Jomann has joined #openttd 09:09:53 *** blocage has joined #openttd 09:19:02 *** abchirk_ has joined #openttd 09:20:51 *** Jomann has quit IRC 09:22:37 *** abchirk_ has quit IRC 09:31:24 *** Progman has quit IRC 09:39:20 *** Montana has joined #openttd 09:46:35 *** Celestar has quit IRC 09:59:42 *** Celestar has joined #openttd 10:04:00 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 10:10:08 *** gelignite has quit IRC 10:13:52 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 10:14:29 <__ln__> o/ 10:15:06 <Wolf01> o/ 10:17:10 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 10:18:42 <crem> \o 10:20:15 *** Celestar has quit IRC 10:24:17 *** tycoondemon has quit IRC 10:28:02 *** Biolunar has joined #openttd 10:31:56 *** Celestar has joined #openttd 10:31:59 <Wolf01> I think that I really need to redo the synchronization part of my app... 10:36:25 <__ln__> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvim4rsNHkQ 10:38:15 *** TheMask96 has quit IRC 10:43:37 *** TheMask96 has joined #openttd 10:56:04 *** Hiddenfunstuff has joined #openttd 11:04:42 *** SiRev has joined #openttd 11:08:10 <SiRev> Hi, anywone around? 11:36:00 <Wolf01> Maybe 12:12:29 <Eddi|zuHause> unlikely 12:16:19 <Wolf01> Did you reach a good point with the discussion of this night? 12:17:47 <Eddi|zuHause> nothing you haven't seen 12:18:47 <Wolf01> I didn't even follow it, and I don't think I want to read the log because it's a wall of text I might not understand :P 12:20:45 * andythenorth drawing trains 12:20:53 <andythenorth> still got length problems eh 12:21:21 <Wolf01> I'm cursing all the divinities I know because I found some problems with my app 12:27:12 <andythenorth> I am getting tied in knots trying to make a viable 1 tile pax train 12:27:22 <andythenorth> 6/8 engine, 4/8 mail car, 6/8 coach 12:27:43 <andythenorth> is that even a valid goal? 12:27:51 <Eddi|zuHause> probably not 12:28:16 <Eddi|zuHause> trains that short should be railcars 12:28:46 <andythenorth> it tends to spam the buy menu with mail and pax wagons that are too short for other uses 12:29:03 <andythenorth> it can be done neatly with an articulated vehicle 12:29:08 <andythenorth> BUT AUTOREPLACE :| 12:29:10 <andythenorth> so no 12:30:24 <andythenorth> https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6207 12:30:44 <andythenorth> me nor frosch neither have any idea if that should even be supported 12:32:53 <Eddi|zuHause> i think it should be supported, but the current autoreplace failure is not fixable in the existing framework 12:33:00 <Eddi|zuHause> so you need consist replace 12:37:09 <andythenorth> hmm 12:37:10 <andythenorth> shame 12:37:24 <andythenorth> 6/8 engine + 10/8 mixed coach (mail and pax) 12:37:26 <andythenorth> works well 12:38:06 <Wolf01> Hahe hate hate anger hate hate anger depression :( 12:39:15 <andythenorth> coffee, Lego 12:40:33 <Wolf01> I'll have a chocolate cookie 12:40:48 <andythenorth> how long IRL is 30 years of OpenTTD play? 12:40:57 <andythenorth> assuming no ffwd 12:41:55 <Eddi|zuHause> 1 year is somewhere between 12 and 15 minutes 12:42:19 <Wolf01> @calc 2.2 * 30 * 365 12:42:19 <DorpsGek> Wolf01: 24090 12:42:28 <andythenorth> eh 6 hours then 12:43:05 <__ln__> andythenorth: so that's where the time mysteriously disappeared and you weren't abducted by aliens after all? 12:43:12 <andythenorth> isn’t it 12:43:37 * andythenorth lost more time to obsessing about wagon lengths :P 13:01:02 <andythenorth> 15 pax and mail coaches 13:01:06 <andythenorth> seems a lot per game 13:23:04 <Wolf01> Why do people write html with unquoted attributes? 13:23:42 <Wolf01> And why browsers allow them to continue with this stupid behaviour? 13:24:19 <peter1138> Ew 13:24:26 <peter1138> Apparently XHTML was too hard, so they dropped it. 13:25:19 <Wolf01> The problem is that now I can't even load some pages because it seem there isn't a way to tell the XmlReader to be kind and load those anyway 13:27:44 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: maybe you should collect some actual user experiences 13:29:10 <peter1138> Well, you shouldn't be loading HTML as XML any more. 13:29:29 <Wolf01> I need to parse it 13:29:54 <peter1138> But it's not XML. 13:30:24 <Wolf01> Eh, I don't have a HtmlReader which allows to manipulate the DOM 13:30:59 <peter1138> https://github.com/MindTouch/SGMLReader 13:31:08 <peter1138> Eh, it's in .Net land though. 13:34:36 <Wolf01> Wow, the parser is long 13:41:47 *** supermop has joined #openttd 13:43:13 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: design me a survey? o_O 13:43:21 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 13:53:14 <Wolf01> Is there an online tool which supports c# regex? 13:55:01 <crem> Are C# special? 13:55:05 <Wolf01> Yes 14:35:19 *** Flygon has quit IRC 14:41:19 <Wolf01> Anybody good with regex could help me finding only \w+=\w+ inside < >? 14:42:32 <crem> I would first find <.*?>, then search *=* inside 14:42:57 <Wolf01> Yes 14:43:17 <Wolf01> I'll do it with loops 14:43:24 <crem> But if you want... <[^<>]*(\w+=\w+)[^<>]*> 14:43:41 <crem> Will only find one \w+=\w+ per <> though. 14:44:05 <blocage> <(\w+=\w+\s+)+> ? 14:44:14 <Eddi|zuHause> somehow i feel reminded of the kirby-dance 14:45:00 <crem> blocage: that will find a=b in this example <c> a=b <d> 14:45:13 <blocage> <(\w+=\w+[^>A-Za-z0-9])+> ? 14:45:26 <Wolf01> None of the 2, crem's one returns everything into < > if there's a \w=\w match, blocage's one it's what I've already tried and doesn't return anything 14:45:35 <blocage> it's not what I understood 14:46:07 <blocage> <(\w+=\w+[^>A-Za-z0-9]+)+> ? 14:46:39 <Wolf01> I have <tag attribute=value another="good value">stuff which may contain x=y</tag> and I need to get only the "attribute=value" 14:48:24 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: you should make a proper parser that handles the <tag X>Y</tag> part, and then do your regex only in X 14:49:17 <Eddi|zuHause> lex/yacc or something 14:51:51 <blocage> look like XML, why do not use one of existing library ? 14:52:20 <Wolf01> Because it's malformed code and the CmlReader isn't able to load it 14:52:25 <Wolf01> *XmlReader 14:53:07 <blocage> in which way it is illformed ? 14:55:33 <Wolf01> In any possible way? 14:56:16 <blocage> xml reader can report the issue, some low level xml parseur may help, like sax parser 14:57:00 <blocage> Wolf01, you should have a valid syntax to parse a file, if not you are in trouble 14:57:06 <Wolf01> :) 14:58:16 <blocage> so, even if it's not a valid xml, it should have a valid syntax, so in which way your syntax differ from xml syntax :) 14:59:07 <blocage> for example: atribute=value is invalid in XML, you should have atrribute="value" 14:59:31 <Wolf01> Thank you, it's really my problem, now I would like to solve that 15:02:47 <blocage> Wolf01, what you want to achieve at hight level ? 15:03:07 <Wolf01> Load the XML to manipulate the DOM 15:03:08 <blocage> can you give some context :D 15:03:39 <blocage> And the XML is ill-formed ? 15:03:49 <Wolf01> Yes, almost always 15:05:47 <blocage> http://lxml.de/elementsoup.html 15:06:07 <Wolf01> I need to do it programmatically 15:06:23 *** Cubey has joined #openttd 15:06:43 <blocage> Wolf01, you should define wihich ill-formed XML you want parse 15:06:53 <blocage> not all issue are recoverable 15:07:30 <blocage> and if you have a syntax, you may go for lex/yacc flex/bison 15:08:08 <blocage> making a lagage parser is full of pitfall 15:09:37 <blocage> lex and flex are lexer, they cut your file in keywords 15:10:44 <blocage> yacc and bison are actual parser that define the structure of keywords 15:10:45 <Wolf01> I think I'll just look to fix the worst errors, I don't want to load 500MB of libraries just to parse random strings for html 15:11:07 <blocage> You want fix an existing paser ? 15:11:23 <Wolf01> My app is already big enough without third party stuff 15:12:32 *** cHawk has quit IRC 15:12:51 <blocage> which regex langage do you use ? 15:13:03 <Wolf01> I'm doing it in c# 15:13:52 <Wolf01> The regex syntax is the same of many others, the implementation differs 15:14:21 *** Gja has joined #openttd 15:16:01 <blocage> Wolf01, which kind of input string do you want match ? 15:16:23 <Wolf01> RSS feeds 15:16:52 <Wolf01> Also atom ones 15:16:59 <blocage> mm I mean at low level within the code 15:17:08 <Wolf01> But that's another problem 15:17:27 <blocage> it's look like you already splited the document 15:17:53 <Wolf01> I get an array of feeds 15:19:37 <blocage> so you try to match <\w+\s+(\w+=\w+\s+|\w+="[^"]+\"\s+)+> with which string ? 15:19:57 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: really, i'd either go looking for a more forgiving XML/HTML Parser, or go the lex/yacc path 15:20:15 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: pure regex is likely the wrong approach here 15:20:27 <Wolf01> I'm doing it with loops 15:20:28 *** cHawk has joined #openttd 15:20:30 <blocage> +1 to Eddi|zuHause 15:22:04 <LordAro> Wolf01: https://stackoverflow.com/q/1732348/995325 15:23:41 <Wolf01> So, I should just give up? 15:24:04 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 15:24:34 <supermop> man now i want a hiroden model 15:24:39 <LordAro> Wolf01: with regex? yes 15:42:43 <Wolf01> I should give up with the XmlReader 15:43:02 <Wolf01> It's impossible to give it a valid xml 15:43:17 <Wolf01> Even after fixing everything it still has something to blame 15:43:44 <Wolf01> Now it bitches about feedburner links having ":" in the middle of the href 15:44:32 <Eddi|zuHause> replace them with %XX? 15:44:37 <Wolf01> And it wants a space there... 15:44:48 <Wolf01> System.Xml.XmlException: 'V9AoX2Ar5FE' is an unexpected token. Expecting white space. Line 2, position 60. 15:47:42 <Eddi|zuHause> you can probably ignore the followup-exceptions, when the fix is as trivial as that 15:48:58 <Alkel_U3> Wolf01: can you give an example of the malformed stuff you're trying to parse? 15:49:38 <Wolf01> Just get the html from a random feed of slashdot 15:51:45 <Alkel_U3> can you point to an url, please? 15:52:15 <Wolf01> http://rss.slashdot.org/Slashdot/slashdotMain 15:52:34 <Alkel_U3> thanks 15:53:03 <Wolf01> But you might wget it, as the browser version is tampered 15:55:37 <Wolf01> Lol, I found one <a> tag with 2 hrefs... 15:55:47 <Wolf01> Clearly XmlReader doesn't like that 15:58:07 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 16:13:04 *** blocage has quit IRC 16:28:53 *** SiRev has quit IRC 16:31:28 *** Gja has quit IRC 16:32:29 *** Gja has joined #openttd 16:38:42 *** Montana has quit IRC 16:43:06 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 16:43:30 <supermop> i wonder why there is such a paucity of model trams 16:46:06 <Wolf01> There are the kato ones, I've seen a nice diorama and I really liked it 16:49:42 <Eddi|zuHause> i think our local tram company sells a model tram 16:56:36 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, i can't find it anymore 16:57:24 <Wolf01> Ok, I trashed all the XmlReader stuff and went back to the old plain "try to get stuff from a string and if you don't find it just return an empty string" 17:01:36 *** glx has joined #openttd 17:01:36 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 17:05:39 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 17:05:53 <Wolf01> Quak 17:07:11 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 17:09:51 <frosch123> moo 17:11:54 <debdog> This #channel does not have Super Cow Powers. 17:13:03 <frosch123> i used gentoo from 2005 to 2010 17:19:27 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 17:40:39 <peter1138> And that was just completing the initial install and compilation. 17:46:06 <frosch123> i never complained about ottd compile times :) 17:46:25 <frosch123> and i compiled firefox only once, then i knew why even gentoo has a binary package for that 17:48:05 <peter1138> Before we went to C++, it was super quick to compile. 17:56:03 *** JacobD88 has joined #openttd 17:59:07 <supermop> Wolf01: the kato ones seem really generic 18:05:22 *** Gja has quit IRC 18:08:29 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 18:08:49 <andythenorth> o/ 18:09:29 <frosch123> hoi 18:10:36 <supermop> yo andy 18:10:36 <andythenorth> supermop: which train shall I include in Iron Horse (Pony) 18:10:47 <supermop> of britishy ones? 18:11:01 <andythenorth> roughly 18:14:19 <supermop> pacers? 18:19:25 *** JacobD88 has quit IRC 18:20:06 <supermop> a mk1 emu with loads of doors down the side? 18:22:27 <andythenorth> nice suggestions :) 18:22:41 <andythenorth> I need a diesel, about 1960, freight, around 1500HP 18:22:45 <andythenorth> preferably fake 18:25:03 <andythenorth> and maybe named after a distinctively British animal :P 18:25:24 <frosch123> fox? 18:25:59 <supermop> badger 18:26:06 <supermop> stoat 18:26:08 <frosch123> thatcher? 18:26:16 <supermop> stoat sounds freight-y 18:26:20 <andythenorth> stoat is good 18:26:28 <andythenorth> I considered fox and badger also 18:26:28 <supermop> good and ugly 18:26:43 <andythenorth> because this is IH v2, I need to rename most of the engines I think 18:27:12 <supermop> hart? 18:27:27 <supermop> hart not freight-y sounding 18:27:50 <frosch123> is there room for a fast blue engine to be named hedgehog? 18:28:24 <supermop> some western hydraulic? 18:28:57 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8606/horse_pony_v2.png 18:29:13 <andythenorth> supermop: Wizzo is a shortened class 52 18:29:19 <andythenorth> or a flattened class 42 18:29:38 <supermop> wizzo looks good 18:29:45 <supermop> v british looking 18:29:48 <andythenorth> Little Bear needs renamed 18:30:02 <supermop> maybe that should be the stoat 18:30:05 <andythenorth> maybe yes 18:30:14 <andythenorth> Shredder is the 1500hp freight engine 18:30:18 <andythenorth> could keep shredder 18:30:22 <andythenorth> or go for Badger 18:30:50 <andythenorth> it’s kind of the default freight choice 18:31:03 <andythenorth> good for 3-5 tiles 18:31:12 <supermop> hmm 18:31:21 <supermop> skylon 18:31:26 <supermop> v british 18:31:42 <supermop> but too 50s 18:31:57 <supermop> saltaire 18:33:10 <andythenorth> in RL, there were Kestrel and Lion 18:33:13 <supermop> are the warning panels yellow or 2cc? 18:34:20 <andythenorth> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_53 18:34:23 <andythenorth> 2CC 18:34:27 <supermop> boo 18:34:33 <andythenorth> boo? o_O 18:35:15 *** Gja has joined #openttd 18:35:40 <supermop> yellow is mandatory to achieve BR-ness 18:35:59 <supermop> how about a name that evokes the twin engine part? 18:36:11 <supermop> swan? 18:36:19 <supermop> swans go about in couples 18:36:34 <supermop> not very freight-y 18:36:35 <andythenorth> swan probably good for an electric 18:36:44 <andythenorth> Avocet was class 89 18:36:57 <andythenorth> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_89 18:37:01 <supermop> original vehicles could have used an avocet 18:37:05 <supermop> i always thought 18:37:11 <andythenorth> ha class 89 also called Badger :P 18:37:16 <supermop> looked slick in the gner livery 18:37:41 <supermop> after the sh 40 there is a dire lack of electric locomotives 18:38:01 <andythenorth> fortunately…newgrf ;) 18:38:15 <supermop> the grf that added a sh 50 and sh 60 is probably the most concise and well reasoned newgrf out there 18:38:35 <andythenorth> I could just go Tractor and do a class 37 18:38:40 <andythenorth> or I could do something Irish 18:39:15 <supermop> also bothers me: original vehicles, both electrics have large logo, all diesels have yellow fronts only 18:39:23 <andythenorth> noticed that yesterday 18:39:40 <andythenorth> had to look how the Roarer sprite compared to SH40 ;) 18:39:41 <supermop> sh 30 should have had yellow front and floss 47 should have had large logo 18:40:00 <supermop> as is 30 and 40 are basically the same 18:40:05 <andythenorth> if I do the 37,it has bonnets, which is distinctive 18:40:09 <andythenorth> not just another box 18:40:15 <supermop> yes, 18:40:26 <supermop> but those boxes are very british boxes 18:40:37 <supermop> no deltic? 18:41:06 <andythenorth> nah 18:41:13 <supermop> too boss? 18:41:17 <andythenorth> as Pikka found, it’s OP 18:41:22 <supermop> heh 18:41:32 <supermop> 92? 18:41:45 <supermop> oh man 18:42:09 <supermop> railfreight grey where 1 and 2 cc are only on the little logo badge? 18:42:34 <andythenorth> :P 18:42:55 <andythenorth> so a bodged 37, call it Tractor, Growler, or Syphon? 18:42:58 <supermop> yes i do own the BR graphic standards manual, how did you know 18:43:01 <andythenorth> or an animal name? 18:43:17 <supermop> syphon? like a tube? 18:43:23 <andythenorth> apparently 18:43:26 <andythenorth> https://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090906061026AAu6Yyd 18:44:03 <supermop> syphon g sounds boss 18:44:33 <supermop> dog name? 18:44:40 <andythenorth> Bulldog? 18:47:25 <andythenorth> hmm something fake for the 1500hp freight engine would be best 18:47:28 <supermop> too british 18:47:32 <andythenorth> what’s a mini-peak? 18:47:37 <supermop> hill? 18:47:45 <supermop> knoll? 18:47:53 <andythenorth> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_45 18:47:57 <andythenorth> but co-co 18:48:03 <andythenorth> foothill? :P 18:48:03 <supermop> coconut 18:48:09 <supermop> berm 18:48:16 <supermop> embankment 18:48:50 <supermop> morraine 18:49:00 <andythenorth> mound 18:49:01 <andythenorth> lump 18:49:14 <andythenorth> summit 18:50:27 <supermop> lump is particularly charming 18:50:45 <supermop> heap 18:51:06 <andythenorth> or I can keep Shredder which is class 33 http://www.semgonline.com/diesel/class33_dat.html 18:51:10 <andythenorth> and fake the length 18:52:52 *** Biolunar has quit IRC 18:59:44 <supermop> i want some little hiroshima trams running about 19:00:00 <supermop> or a peach colored okayama tram 19:01:04 <supermop> incredibly there are no english language wikipedia pages for any of the hiroden rolling stock 19:05:18 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 19:08:12 <frosch123> isn't the hiroshima tram set the oldest tram set of all? 19:16:49 <supermop> hmm? 19:17:08 <supermop> i want little ones driving around my apartment 19:17:45 <frosch123> oh, didn't notice that the subject changed to hardware 19:17:53 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest4698 19:17:53 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 19:18:14 <andythenorth> supermop: for mini-peak: crag, bluff, tor, tump, pike? 19:18:45 <supermop> crag 19:19:07 <supermop> used to climb about on crags in yorkshire when i lived there 19:20:11 <supermop> https://www.instagram.com/p/BYpGYgllvOL/?taken-by=metabolist 19:20:59 <andythenorth> such tram 19:21:15 <andythenorth> maybe I should decide what to draw, then name it :P 19:22:35 *** Guest4698 has quit IRC 19:24:22 <supermop> https://www.instagram.com/p/BYjx5nKlWQB/?taken-by=metabolist 19:28:08 <andythenorth> I like the micro car 19:30:34 *** Stimrol has joined #openttd 19:33:21 *** Gja has quit IRC 19:34:28 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 19:34:42 <supermop> in japan it is just 'car' 19:37:55 <andythenorth> supermop: what have I drawn? :( 19:37:56 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8607/shredder_eh.png 19:38:05 <andythenorth> it’s all wrong 19:38:15 <supermop> hmmm 19:38:21 <supermop> its something 19:40:00 <frosch123> the roof could be from the xkcd phone 1874 19:45:54 *** tycoondemon has joined #openttd 19:49:23 <andythenorth> not sure what it’s supposed to be :) 19:49:58 <frosch123> the roof has 1-2 pixels too much at the lower border 19:53:59 *** tycoondemon has quit IRC 19:54:48 *** tycoondemon has joined #openttd 19:55:14 *** tycoondemon has quit IRC 19:59:31 <Eddi|zuHause> thing i found odd with the xkcd phone: should't the camera be at 1/3 of the height, because that's were the eyes should be (if properlx framed)? 19:59:46 <Eddi|zuHause> s/x/y/ 20:00:12 <Eddi|zuHause> dangit, s/x /y / 20:01:41 <frosch123> no, the camera must be in the spot where you are looking at 20:02:00 <frosch123> it's not necessary to have the phone in parallel to the face 20:02:04 <frosch123> it's a camera, no scanner 20:02:41 <frosch123> though, wasn't there a scanner on the back? 20:03:00 <Eddi|zuHause> no, i mean the camera position is meant to have your face make eye contact with the other person 20:03:11 <Eddi|zuHause> so it should be where the other person's eyes are on the screen 20:04:08 <frosch123> oh, so it depend on the other person framing their picture correctly 20:04:15 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 20:04:16 <frosch123> shoudn't the camera move then? 20:04:32 <frosch123> i.e. automatic camera positioning 20:04:42 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe next year :p 20:06:42 <frosch123> they should have replaced the home button with a travel button 20:06:49 <frosch123> it's a mobile device after all 20:07:01 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 20:08:43 <frosch123> it probably should have wheels 20:08:49 <frosch123> or legs 20:11:54 <andythenorth> better http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8608/shredder_deux.png 20:12:40 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: didn't they get into the autonomous car business? that's basically an iphone with wheels then 20:13:11 <andythenorth> xkcd car 20:14:22 <frosch123> the roof has a cooler? 20:15:41 <frosch123> i guess i cannot see the roof of engines usually, but i guess rain cooling also works? 20:16:17 <frosch123> anyway, i like the wheels 20:16:26 <frosch123> and the tank between them 20:17:26 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: coolers on the roof are quite common 20:28:10 <andythenorth> o_O https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=75637&start=120 20:36:01 <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: if both users have cameras in center of screen, wont both users eyes be at center? 20:48:25 <Wolf01> andythenorth: reply "we are remaking it from scratch" 20:49:34 <Wolf01> "also we are removing ships" 20:49:36 <supermop> http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10209283 20:49:41 <supermop> only luck so far 20:49:57 <supermop> sold out but evidence that a product was made at some point 20:52:15 *** Geth has joined #openttd 20:58:01 <andythenorth> supermop: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/N-GAUGE-KATO-14-070-Hannover-Tram-Hiroshima-Electric-Railway-/253114860978?epid=649672554&hash=item3aeed245b2:g:ankAAOSw2-BZdjLe 20:58:05 *** Hiddenfunstuff has quit IRC 20:58:50 <supermop> those don't run in hiroshima anymore as far as i know 20:59:12 <supermop> saw no pointy european style trams there 20:59:25 <supermop> also they still have trammies there 20:59:27 <andythenorth> ebay not producing much else :) 21:00:09 <supermop> also also, as compared to 2004-5, 2009, and 2013, there are now tones of women driving and conducting trains and trams in japan 21:00:22 <supermop> used to be pretty much a boys club 21:00:42 <supermop> shrinking labour market will open minds 21:01:57 <supermop> i think the answer is i will have to scratch build trams 21:04:17 *** Progman has joined #openttd 21:04:42 <supermop> hmm of course when i search ebay i just get tons of figurines of tramway conductors 21:04:56 <supermop> not sure wife would approve of me buying those instead 21:10:57 <andythenorth> buffet cars: BAD FEATURE? 21:11:33 <supermop> are you addy mk3 cars with different colored stripes along the top? 21:11:40 <andythenorth> dunno 21:11:55 <supermop> my BR graphic standards book has sample menus from spring 1968 21:11:56 <andythenorth> buffet car would give a payment boost 21:12:18 <frosch123> andythenorth: bad feature if you have to build them separately 21:12:25 <supermop> you could have cars as modules 21:12:31 <frosch123> nice if they are created automatically 21:12:42 <andythenorth> that negates the payment boost idea :) 21:12:44 <supermop> buy rake of cars, add buffet and the all become long distance 21:13:03 <supermop> add a metro car and they all get 4 doors and higher decay 21:13:04 <supermop> idk 21:13:06 <andythenorth> hmm 21:13:20 <frosch123> andythenorth: just have local cars and long distance cars 21:13:23 <andythenorth> you would always add the buffet car 21:13:32 <frosch123> isn't that what all sets do? 21:13:35 <andythenorth> so I might as well boost payment in all cases :P 21:13:37 <Eddi|zuHause> haha... "GähnOfThrones"... 21:13:40 <frosch123> or is that a reason to not do it as well? 21:13:48 <supermop> no one buys ticket to sit in the buffet car 21:14:01 <andythenorth> frosch123: I’ve only played sets with one type of coach per generation 21:14:13 <Eddi|zuHause> (... because german election campaign is soooo boring) 21:14:17 <andythenorth> I only use Pikka sets tbh 21:14:19 <supermop> should be a car with 0 capacity but payment boost to all other cars in rake? 21:14:38 <andythenorth> I only considered it because I can make it 6/8 long 21:14:42 <supermop> ha 21:14:50 <andythenorth> which happens to make integer length with 10/8 engine 21:15:02 <andythenorth> probably bad 21:15:34 <supermop> as long as tt pasengers are just as happy to take a horse cart or concorde to whereever fare differentiation is sort of hard to think to seriously about 21:16:18 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: i thought elections become more interesting again since the forecasts become worse? 21:16:21 <supermop> load speed works out to be the most valuable stat i find 21:16:42 <andythenorth> supermop: I’m doing fast and slow loading coaches 21:16:54 <andythenorth> but with 4 generations, that’s a 8 coaches 21:16:58 <andythenorth> which is a shitload :P 21:17:15 <supermop> as 'uncomfortable+high capacity' and 'comfortable+low capacity' work out to be a wash 21:17:28 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: that may be, but we won't know how accurate the forecasts actually are until it happened 21:17:49 <supermop> andythenorth: after doing some 200 something trucks and busses i lost my appetite to split local/long haul 21:17:55 <andythenorth> :P 21:18:03 <andythenorth> still NFI how to make a 1 tile train with a 6/8 engine 21:18:06 <andythenorth> and pax/mail 21:18:36 <supermop> even though the vanilla style buses are clearly closer to a coach than city bus, cant be assed 21:18:42 <andythenorth> I think the answer is 'not' 21:18:51 <andythenorth> unless I do 10/8 articulated pax coaches 21:19:10 <supermop> so instead just boosted capacity and load speed, and now they are both local and long distance 21:19:28 <supermop> andythenorth: 1 tile train is MUs 21:19:37 <supermop> or nothing 21:19:57 <andythenorth> for trains, is ‘fast loading’ vs ‘slow loading’ even a thing? 21:20:05 <supermop> 1 tile station looks stupid, dont bother making a nice looking train to go on a stupid looking station 21:20:08 <andythenorth> if you want high density, use metro 21:20:25 <andythenorth> they’re all 1 tile :P 21:20:25 <supermop> andythenorth: NJT = high capacity + slow loading 21:20:59 <supermop> type is extinct in europe and japan as far as i can tell 21:21:10 <supermop> but most american commuter railroads are like that 21:21:42 <supermop> loco hauled coaches with high density seating (even two floors) but only end doors 21:21:52 <supermop> and traps for low platforms 21:22:04 <frosch123> andythenorth: most intermediate-distance trains have two floors here 21:22:14 <supermop> NJT, Metra, whatever they have in minnesota 21:22:31 <frosch123> possibly the platforms are not long enough for more wagons 21:22:50 <supermop> per meter of train, NJT probably hold as much or more than typical full subway 21:23:00 <frosch123> i guess two-floor cars qualify as high capacity, slow loading 21:23:07 <supermop> frosch123: thats the issue in many suburban railroads here 21:23:36 <frosch123> what is njt? 21:23:42 <andythenorth> I could just keep the combined mail/pax coach for short trains 21:23:43 <frosch123> new jersey transit makes no sense 21:23:48 <andythenorth> but then auto-replace is broken 21:23:56 <supermop> new jersey transit. a shitty railroad. bombardier bi-level, with standees in the vestibule 21:24:31 <supermop> andythenorth: add apocryphal late game combined coaches 21:25:40 <supermop> i use as an example of a type of commuter railroad in the us that is constrained by platform length and frequency of trains per hour, so the consist ends up being very high density per-car 21:25:41 <frosch123> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fd/DBpbzf_763.5_Remagen.jpg http://www.bahnbilder.de/1200/db-re-5-br-112-718034.jpg <- they kind of exist in two variants 21:25:50 <frosch123> the latter with a real separate engine 21:25:53 <frosch123> the former more mu-ish 21:26:39 <supermop> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NJ_Transit_Rail_Operations#/media/File:New_Jersey_Transit_rail_operations_sampler.jpg 21:26:58 <supermop> those bi-levels do not load fast 21:27:29 <supermop> especially at low platforms 21:28:39 <frosch123> yeah, they only have small doors 21:29:01 <supermop> the seating inside is very dense too 21:29:01 <frosch123> the ones i know and linked have two double doors 21:29:16 <frosch123> so two people can enter/leave in parallel for lower/upper deck 21:29:31 <supermop> so its an example of slow and dense, but not very british 21:29:55 <frosch123> anyway, do they intentionally look like made of tin metal? 21:30:33 <frosch123> to my eyes the njt cars look extremly ugly 21:30:42 <peter1138> Iconic American trains. 21:30:55 <Wolf01> All that steel grey 21:31:39 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the shortest viable engine-driven train should be 2 tiles... 1 tile is only sane with railcars 21:31:57 <peter1138> https://gentlemenbehold.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/2003-08-25_greyhound_bus.jpg 21:32:02 <supermop> frosch123: to my eyes too 21:32:05 <supermop> http://www.umcycling.com/kenstationstoredcar.jpg 21:32:20 <supermop> these are even weirder as the upper level has no floor 21:32:22 <frosch123> looks like livestock transporter :) 21:33:01 <frosch123> no floor? on the inside? 21:33:12 <supermop> https://acm.jhu.edu/~sthurmovik/Railpics/09-07-24_CTA_KENSINGTON/METRA-Electric_Hi-Liner-interrior-gallery.jpg 21:33:34 <Wolf01> <frosch123> looks like livestock transporter :) <- totally 21:33:47 <supermop> Wolf01: it feels like one too to ride in 21:33:51 <frosch123> supermop: wtf? how do you get up there? 21:34:06 <peter1138> Seems wasteful of space. 21:34:08 <supermop> there is tiny like ships ladder/stair at one end 21:34:36 <supermop> the lower floor is not sunk like on a regular bi-level, it is at regular platform height 21:34:49 <supermop> the upper seats are like sitting in the luggage racks 21:35:01 <frosch123> oh right, no low floor 21:35:11 <Eddi|zuHause> sounds like an awesome idea 21:35:31 <supermop> as far as i know chicago is the only place these are used 21:35:45 <supermop> don't know who's idea it was 21:35:55 <supermop> they all seem pretty old 21:36:06 <frosch123> someone who thought that old people occupy to many seats 21:36:14 <supermop> the head room up there is maby 56" 21:36:31 <Eddi|zuHause> how much is that in real units? 21:36:41 <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: x25.4 21:36:50 <frosch123> or someone who wanted to encourage women wearing trousers 21:36:51 <supermop> and the aisle is about 1 foot 21:37:53 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 56*2.54 21:37:53 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 142.24 21:37:53 <supermop> these trains are without a doubt some of the stupidest i have ever ridden 21:38:13 <Eddi|zuHause> that's not... high 21:38:51 <Eddi|zuHause> not that i can properly stand in regular german bilevel cars either... 21:38:53 <supermop> and they are somewhat dense in service patterns, but diesel hauled. only one branch is electrified 21:39:02 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 21:39:13 <supermop> the electric line uses EMUs built to the same stupid style 21:39:23 <peter1138> At least you can have bi-level carriages. 21:40:12 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe you should completely trash your railway system and build a new one? :p 21:40:28 <supermop> peter1138: https://camo.derpicdn.net/953eaaa908e6145f3d2a444977b917b6edf1c336?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.semgonline.com%2Fgallery%2Fpics%2Fmt_4dd2.jpg 21:40:33 <peter1138> We trashed it in the 60s... 21:40:42 <peter1138> Didn't get around to replacing it yet though. 21:40:50 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, you failed the build a new one :p 21:41:04 <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: its already trashed that's why we have such stupid and ugly trains on our suburban routes 21:41:12 <supermop> and most cities no longer even have those 21:41:13 <peter1138> We're getting some "new" bits eventually but it'll be the same loading gauge. 21:41:39 <peter1138> I guess HS2 will be shitty as well, and that won't stop anywhere useful anyway. 21:42:04 <Eddi|zuHause> where does HS2 go? 21:42:27 <peter1138> London to Birmingham. 21:42:40 <peter1138> At least, the first section. 21:42:52 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm sure there is nothing useful inbetween :p 21:44:14 <supermop> look they bought new ones to be just as ugly and stupid as the old: 21:44:15 <supermop> http://www.nipponsharyousa.com/news/20160819.jpg 21:45:47 <Wolf01> We use these ones as double decker: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treno_ad_alta_frequentazione 21:46:54 <supermop> damn it why is this thing 0: 21:46:55 <supermop> https://www.amazon.co.jp/Railway-Collection-Hiroshima-Electric-350/dp/B01N4HFFRQ/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1505425580&sr=8-2-fkmr0&keywords=tomytec+hiroshima+tram 21:47:07 <Wolf01> Top deck: https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Traino_di_Roma_01_(RaBoe).jpg Bottom deck: https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Treno_TAF_-_Interni_-_Piano_Inferiore.jpg 21:47:51 <peter1138> Yeah but Italians are short. 21:48:37 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 21:48:43 <Wolf01> We have a lot of >1.85 ;) 21:48:52 <peter1138> 1.85 is short, yes. 21:49:43 <Wolf01> If you measure it in feet yes 21:50:02 <Eddi|zuHause> well, i'm certainly >1.85 :p 21:50:25 <Wolf01> I'm short, only 1.73 :( 21:52:58 <peter1138> Aww, my local TOC withdraw their Class 121 Bubble Car :( 21:53:42 <supermop> those exist on mainline railways stil? 21:54:19 <peter1138> Well it was withdrawn, so no :p 21:54:28 <Eddi|zuHause> what's a bubble car? 21:54:55 <supermop> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a1/W55033_at_Colne_Valley_Railway_2.JPG/220px-W55033_at_Colne_Valley_Railway_2.JPG 21:54:58 <supermop> i think 21:55:58 <supermop> this is quite nice: https://photos.smugmug.com/BR/BR-dmu/i-bxD7dcV/0/f2651369/L/b132-L.jpg 21:56:13 <peter1138> Yeah, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_121 21:56:28 <peter1138> 57 years service. 21:57:00 <supermop> we have trains on our subway older than that 21:57:57 <supermop> oh i guess they are gone now 21:58:04 <supermop> now 53 is the oldest 21:58:38 <supermop> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R32/A_(New_York_City_Subway_car) 21:59:26 <Eddi|zuHause> well, in berlin they had trains built in the 1920s in use until the 1990s 21:59:42 <peter1138> Light weight stainless steel, yes. Hmm. 22:02:59 <Eddi|zuHause> currently, there's a modernisation wave going on, because former monopoly-operated regional networks are opened for "free market", typically with 15 year contracts. and lots of those mandated new trains, or heavily penalized offers with used trains 22:04:23 <Eddi|zuHause> when these contracts go up for renewal after 15 years, they probably allow used trains, to make trains average age around 30 years 22:05:12 *** tokai has joined #openttd 22:05:13 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 22:11:56 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 22:15:10 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 22:21:01 *** gelignite has quit IRC 22:21:58 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 22:31:04 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 22:31:11 *** Stimrol has quit IRC 22:36:14 *** Long_yanG has joined #openttd 22:38:50 *** LongyanG has quit IRC 23:08:48 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 23:35:04 *** Hiddenfunstuff has joined #openttd 23:36:16 *** Geth has quit IRC 23:46:30 <Wolf01> 'night 23:46:34 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC