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00:14:57 *** Progman has quit IRC 00:31:07 *** Hiddenfunstuff has quit IRC 01:56:55 *** glx has quit IRC 04:26:39 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 05:28:16 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 05:45:34 *** Cubey has quit IRC 05:51:00 *** DDR has quit IRC 06:29:38 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 06:43:48 *** DDR has joined #openttd 06:45:23 *** tycoondemon has joined #openttd 06:46:27 <andythenorth> o/ 06:55:57 *** Defaultti has quit IRC 06:57:08 *** Defaultti has joined #openttd 07:01:37 *** tycoondemon has quit IRC 07:01:52 *** tycoondemon has joined #openttd 07:16:38 *** blocage has joined #openttd 07:24:00 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 07:40:33 *** Stimrol has joined #openttd 07:41:57 <crem> i/o 07:55:47 <__ln__> http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-41278545 07:58:00 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge 07:59:09 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 08:15:42 *** Progman has joined #openttd 08:24:16 *** twb has joined #openttd 08:26:28 <twb> Hi, I ship OpenTTD to prison inmates. The built-in package downloader stuff (bananas?) is disabled. Instead I have a crappy hand-written script to bundle a couple of packages into a Debian package (.deb), which gets installed on all the kiosks. 08:26:43 <twb> Inmates are whinging and asking for more content, so I'm looking at this code again. 08:27:04 <twb> Is there a way to get e.g. package dependencies out of bananas, rather than having to work it out by hand? 08:27:24 <twb> http://sprunge.us/GbOP?bash is my crappy script 08:28:15 *** Biolunar has joined #openttd 08:28:20 <twb> (I'm poking around in http://bananas.openttd.org/en/ right now) 08:29:34 <LordAro> that's a rather unusual situation! 08:29:50 <twb> It certainly has some interesting problems to solve :-) 08:30:28 <LordAro> have you thought about just packaging an existing content_download folder? i think ottd should read it from a global /etc/... folder (see readme 4.2) 08:30:59 <twb> It's easier for my version control if this is set up from a script rather than an interactive GUI 08:32:00 <Eddi|zuHause> you could try MUSA, but it's more targeted towards people who want to upload things to bananas rather than download it 08:32:13 <twb> But if you mean that I can just download the .tar.gz and not bother to unpack them, that's useful 08:32:17 <LordAro> i don't believe bananas itself has any form of dependency management, it's all handled by the client 08:32:27 <twb> LordAro: how does the client work out the dependencies? 08:32:33 <Eddi|zuHause> twb: openttd can read .tar files, but not .gz 08:32:36 <twb> LordAro: by trying to execute the scripts? 08:32:50 <twb> Eddi|zuHause: OK, cool. 08:32:57 <LordAro> twb: honestly no idea :p it'll be in the source somewhere 08:33:04 <twb> Yeah :-) 08:33:18 <twb> I think last time I had a quick look at the source and went "this is too hard to understand, I can't be bothered" 08:33:20 <Eddi|zuHause> twb: there is also a (ingame) console interface to bananas, rather than the gui 08:33:49 <LordAro> twb: but, i mean just copying your own (for example) content_download folder 08:33:55 <LordAro> they're fully portable 08:34:04 <twb> I don't actually play opentty myself 08:34:07 <twb> *openttd 08:34:46 <LordAro> or whatever, just an existing ottd install with the content you want installed 08:34:53 <peter1138> Just download it all ;) 08:35:06 <LordAro> or ^ 08:35:21 <twb> What's the total size of everything in bananas? 08:35:24 <twb> ballpark I mean 08:35:27 <peter1138> Along with those extra content packs that contain stuff that isn't on there. 08:35:40 <twb> Like is it 100MB or 2GB 08:35:42 <LordAro> tbh, there aren't many things except AIs that have any dependencies at all 08:35:52 <twb> LordAro: OK that's good to know 08:35:55 <Eddi|zuHause> twb: multiple GB probably 08:35:55 <peter1138> Not massive, except for some of V453000's stuff. 08:36:21 <twb> yeah I'm trying to keep the total OS+apps size under about 4GB (before compression) 08:36:42 <twb> squashfs then gets it down to about 1-2GB, faster uploading to kiosks &c 08:37:02 <peter1138> http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/GRF 08:37:08 <twb> But like the midi stuff is nice and small compared to modern games :-) 08:37:18 <peter1138> That is the openttdcoop content pack, it's 22MB. 08:37:33 <peter1138> I don't know what's included these days. It may just be stuff that isn't on Bananas I guess. 08:38:03 <Eddi|zuHause> twb: i think the bananas ingame console interface should work for you, you can put it in a script file that runs on game start, so you can run it from a build script 08:38:46 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: that stuff is probably heavily outdated 08:39:06 <Eddi|zuHause> except maybe the dbset :p 08:39:37 <peter1138> OH yeah, 2010. Duh. 08:39:38 <twb> So newGRF is basically "here's a bundle of content that improves all parts of the TTD experience" ? 08:39:56 <peter1138> Well, changes at least. 08:40:17 <twb> The baseline I'm using is whatever's in Debian 08:40:31 <twb> Which is 1.4.4 currently because I'm still shipping Debian oldstable 08:45:09 <twb> This is the list of crap $boss told me to install http://sprunge.us/ggDc 08:46:53 <twb> I'll build a fresh desktop with openttd installed, unblock direct network access (in the lab), then see what the in-app content manager can do 08:47:49 <Eddi|zuHause> https://wiki.openttd.org/Console_Commands <-- take a look at "content select" and "content download" commands 08:48:03 <Eddi|zuHause> they work somewhat like a package manager on linux 08:48:40 <twb> Cool thanks 08:49:59 <twb> How come Queue.BinaryHeap is in both ailibs and gslibs --- does that mean if ai and gs both want to use it, it has to be downloaded twice? 08:50:02 *** Progman has quit IRC 08:51:39 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 08:51:43 <twb> okey dokey 08:52:00 <twb> It's not like it's big enough to matter 08:52:11 <Eddi|zuHause> they probably only differ in a global search and replace for "AI" to "GS" 08:52:26 <Eddi|zuHause> but conceptually, those are separate scripting runtimes 08:53:37 * andythenorth wonders 08:53:44 <andythenorth> my newgrfs have coke and reefers 08:54:13 <Eddi|zuHause> put ice cubes in the coke?` 09:02:23 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 09:07:49 <twb> does bananas just run over HTTP/HTTPS? 09:08:31 <twb> I punched a hole through the firewalls for that, but I might have screwed it up 09:20:10 <Eddi|zuHause> there might be two modes, one over http and one over a custom protocol, but i'm not sure about that 09:20:34 <Eddi|zuHause> @ports 09:20:34 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound) 09:21:02 <__ln__> i guess back in the old days it was quite common to have prison inmates work with building railways. 09:22:06 <Eddi|zuHause> twb: so tcp port 3978 09:24:32 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 09:26:46 <twb> thanks 09:26:49 <LordAro> __ln__: haha 09:27:26 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 09:27:29 <twb> __ln__: yep and in USA they are used to make all US military armour, because minimum wage laws do not apply to convicts 09:27:47 <twb> __ln__: same with laws against truck systems / company towns 09:28:04 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd 09:28:35 <twb> that's why they pass laws that keep up to 50% of adult males in some communities in prison at any one time -- slave labour 09:32:53 <Eddi|zuHause> well, there's certainly a reason why the US has more prisoners per capita than any other country in the world 09:33:38 <Eddi|zuHause> and it's not because they have more criminal energy than the rest of the world 09:35:19 *** Flygon has quit IRC 09:36:08 *** Hiddenfunstuff has joined #openttd 09:50:38 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 09:50:45 <Wolf01> o/ 09:51:26 <crem> \o 09:52:00 <twb> typing one-handed eh 09:55:44 *** gnu_jj has quit IRC 09:56:47 *** gnu_jj has joined #openttd 09:58:39 <twb> Hrmph, I tried opening just 3978/TCP for bananas, and I get "Could not connect to the content server". time to tcpdump 10:00:20 <twb> Derp. Typo'd 10:04:16 <twb> Ohhhh, I know what's happening. Normally FORWARD isn't allowed at all, everything goes through an app proxy 10:04:29 <twb> But since this is going direct, I need to -j MASQUERADE 10:05:43 <peter1138> Not sure why it uses a custom protocol instead of HTTP, but hey. 10:05:43 <twb> works now 10:05:53 <twb> peter1138: just to be annoying :-P 10:06:17 <twb> HTTP wouldn't have worked anyway unless you support speaking HTTPS *to* the proxy, which is only barely supported even in GUI browsers 10:08:08 <twb> Can I connect the ~ console to stdio, rather than accessing it via the little SDL window? 10:09:55 <LordAro> peter1138: all of the hysterical raisins 10:10:40 <twb> Once I've download content through the content manager, do I have to "activate" it somehow? It looks like for NewGRF, I have to explicitly add/remove it from the "active" list, and I guess other kinds of content have their own ways to load 10:11:09 <LordAro> it's added per game 10:11:18 <LordAro> i'd leave it up to the players to do it themselves 10:11:26 <LordAro> they're not always wanted, after all 10:11:33 <twb> good, that's what I want 10:12:00 <twb> I don't want to like download blade runner graphics and have every inmate see that by default :P 10:13:37 <twb> OK so as a test I downloaded (through the GUI) the Scott Joplin OBM, then did New Game, gear icon, and I can see it in the "Base Music" drop-down 10:13:41 <twb> But it's greyed out 10:13:57 <twb> How do I find out why it's greyed out? 10:15:17 <LordAro> can only change base game settings from the main menu 10:15:20 <LordAro> (confusingly) 10:16:32 <twb> righto 10:18:39 <twb> yaaaay scott joplin 10:20:23 <Eddi|zuHause> basesets (sound/music/graphics), NewGRFs and AIs/GameScripts have each their own setup screens in the main menu 10:23:45 <Wolf01> Bah, my pen is broken... I can't draw short lines 10:24:16 <Eddi|zuHause> draw long lines and cut them down to size? 10:24:35 <Wolf01> A bit difficult in the middle of a drawing 10:25:00 <twb> OK so the content manager makes ~/.local/share/openttd/content_download/ai/library/Queue.FibonacciHeap-3.tar 10:25:01 <Eddi|zuHause> man, this "Kindergarten" game is crazy :p 10:25:27 <twb> Where my old half-arsed stuff has /usr/share/games/openttd/ai/library/Queue.FibonacciHeap.2/library.nut 10:25:42 <Wolf01> Also I don't have anymore a good application which respond to the buttons... paint.net can't help 10:25:59 <twb> Although weirdly the Scott Joplin stuff is not in a .tar 10:26:35 <Eddi|zuHause> twb: it doesn't really matter which of the paths is used, and .tar also is irrelevant 10:26:37 <twb> http://sprunge.us/DjUU --- does baseset (or maybe just music) have to be untarred to work properly? 10:27:06 <peter1138> Only music sets need to be untarred. 10:27:09 <Eddi|zuHause> music might be special 10:27:13 <twb> OK 10:28:18 <Wolf01> Bah, I should just trash this graphic tablet 10:34:37 *** Montana has joined #openttd 10:35:10 <Wolf01> Which free software could I use to sketch with the graphic tablet? Not gimp 10:36:05 <crem> krita ? 10:37:36 <twb> Hrm, so I studied musa.py to see how to "scrape" the content data without bothering to start up an X display and openttd and everything 10:37:55 <twb> gnutls-cli --crlf content.openttd.org -p 3980 10:39:01 <Wolf01> I think I'll just go with Ink... if I find a way to enable it in this pc 10:41:24 *** D-HUND has joined #openttd 10:42:03 <Wolf01> Ok, Ink is perfect 10:43:05 <twb> Blergh it's past my bedtime and working out the HTTP-like wire protocol based on send_data() in musa.py is making me sleepy 10:43:56 <twb> http://sprunge.us/fJTB 10:45:37 *** debdog has quit IRC 10:50:49 <twb> OK this at least gets a response from the server: http://sprunge.us/deAF?py 10:51:15 <twb> Now to read network_content.cpp to work out how that's asking for a package listing 10:52:14 <twb> OO hurts my FP brain 11:39:23 <Wolf01> I think today I'll minecraft all the rest of the spare time... like 5 hours... 11:39:56 <__ln__> anyone been to: http://www.berlin-airport.de/en/ber/the-excitement-of-airports/airport-tour/ber-experience/index.php 11:42:46 <Wolf01> Is the one near the mythical Berlin mountain? 11:44:13 <twb> OK I'm definitely *definitely* going to bed now 11:44:18 <twb> thanks everybody for your help 12:04:42 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: the only "mountains" in berlin are piles of rubble from WWII 12:05:10 <Wolf01> Nah, the other mountain 12:05:28 <Eddi|zuHause> then i don't know what you mean 12:05:35 <Wolf01> Tempelhof 12:06:08 <Eddi|zuHause> Tempelhof closed in the mid 1990s 12:06:55 <Eddi|zuHause> Tempelhof was in west berlin, BER is near Schönefeld, which is just outside berlin 12:06:56 <__ln__> or early 2000s? 12:07:02 <Wolf01> Yes, they built a mountain there 12:08:17 <Eddi|zuHause> they did quite a number of things in the Tempelhof area, like art installations, refugee camps, festivals, housing projects 12:08:28 <__ln__> http://www.archdaily.com/40755/the-berg-the-biggest-artificial-mountain-in-the-world 12:08:40 <__ln__> but that certainly wasn't built in reality 12:10:35 <Eddi|zuHause> ok, i definitely haven't heard about that one before 12:11:27 <Wolf01> So the ticket I purchased for a trip there was a scam :( 12:11:33 *** Montana has quit IRC 12:12:45 <__ln__> how suspicious is it that Wolf01 complains about a mountain scam, and mr. Montaña immediately quits? 12:13:05 <Wolf01> XD 12:17:58 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 12:21:10 *** Geth has joined #openttd 12:21:19 *** Flygon_ has quit IRC 12:24:01 *** blocage has quit IRC 12:25:12 *** blocage has joined #openttd 12:26:05 *** Biolunar has quit IRC 12:27:11 *** Hiddenfunstuff has quit IRC 12:45:14 *** Jomann has joined #openttd 12:59:41 *** twb has quit IRC 13:13:55 *** tokai has quit IRC 13:19:39 *** tokai has joined #openttd 13:19:39 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 13:20:00 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 13:20:20 <supermop> up all night with jet lag, trying to think of some way a game could be both cute and fun, and have rivet-counting shunting or pointwork etc 13:20:37 <supermop> well first was trying to think of some kind of cute tram or metro game 13:22:34 <supermop> but tram and metro systems are simple in a way that they are impossible to make a game out of unless make maddeningly complex 13:28:49 <crem> Anyone from Arstotzka? Have a visa question! 13:29:27 <__ln__> from what? 13:30:53 <crem> Impor. 13:34:24 *** Alberth has joined #openttd 13:34:24 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth 13:34:51 <Alberth> o/ 13:36:04 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: everybody knows that the most important thing is the name! 13:49:07 <supermop> maybe something where you collect trams 13:50:50 <supermop> but unless it's stupidly complex, all you'd see is your tram going back and forth 13:52:45 <Wolf01> Mmmh, ublock origin blocks my bookmarks with http://username@site.com 13:54:00 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 13:54:22 <supermop> idk i guess neko atsume but with trams? 13:54:30 <supermop> or metro trains 13:56:51 <andythenorth> supermop: played Mini Metro? o_O 13:57:00 <andythenorth> lo Alberth 13:58:06 <supermop> andythenorth: i was an early backer 13:58:19 <andythenorth> :) 13:58:25 <supermop> but thats sort of what i am saying, its way too simple 13:58:40 <supermop> and instead of a cute tram, its a rectangle 13:58:58 <supermop> im thinking something that has crossovers, platforms, pointwork 13:59:08 <supermop> but not a whole network 13:59:27 <supermop> like a chibi shunting puzzle, but for passenger operations 13:59:44 <supermop> so basically tram atsume 13:59:50 <supermop> "ding sing" 13:59:54 <supermop> *ding 14:01:42 <supermop> like your terminus has stupid pointwork, so all your trams pile up and get delayed and get angry with you 14:01:51 <supermop> maybe it is tram tamagochi 14:01:54 <andythenorth> yeah Mini Metro isn’t a train game 14:01:55 <supermop> tramagochi 14:01:59 <andythenorth> just a shape matching game 14:03:20 <supermop> feed tram more amps of 600V DC 14:04:25 <supermop> or it could be like denshya de D 14:07:02 <supermop> drawn any more large logoish ponies? 14:12:51 *** TrueBrain_ has quit IRC 14:13:23 *** TrueBrain_ has joined #openttd 14:17:08 *** stefino has joined #openttd 14:17:22 <stefino> Hi I have a question about vehicle length. Maximum length is 8 but we are making more realistic sets and need longer "boxes" for our vehicles. We solved it with invisible parts what are articulated ahead of the vehicle and behind the vehicle. It work correcly but the problem is at bridges.As you can see in the picture. Main graphics is loaded at the middle box (front and rear boxes are not displayed) and if vehicle goes throw the bridge, 14:17:47 <stefino> eground sprite. This all will be OK if the game will provide longer boxes than 8. Is it possible to make these boxes with maximum length 16? It will be really helpfull for us and provide better ingame graphics result that current flashing graphics on the bridges and another tiles where the game uses foreground/background tiles. 14:18:02 <stefino> Thanks for the answer :) 14:18:17 <stefino> https://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=199657 14:19:35 <Eddi|zuHause> stefino: unfortunately, it's not as easy to enlarge the boxes, because larger boxes means there are more cases where the sprite order cannot be resolved properly, causing more glitches elsewhere 14:20:17 <Eddi|zuHause> also, that link fails 14:21:33 <stefino> it is only picture with this bug 14:21:37 <stefino> https://s26.postimg.org/m23u7leeh/V_st_i_ek.jpg 14:22:33 <Eddi|zuHause> stefino: my approach to that is to also cut down the sprite, showing 1/3 in the first "invisible" vehicle, 1/3 in the middle, and 1/3 in the last "invisible" vehicle 14:22:47 <Eddi|zuHause> only in curves you must show the vehicle as one sprite 14:22:49 *** Flygon has quit IRC 14:23:02 *** TheMask96 has quit IRC 14:23:13 <Eddi|zuHause> and on slopes 14:23:57 <Eddi|zuHause> it is pretty tricky though 14:24:05 <Eddi|zuHause> and does not fix all cases 14:25:20 * andythenorth is doing chibi vehicles instead 14:25:27 <andythenorth> max 8/8, or visibly articulated for longer 14:25:30 <andythenorth> constraints are good 14:26:20 <stefino> yes I was thinking about that but enlarge the boxes will be much easier than this. But I have no idea how difficult is it. But as you rote that it has some another problems - you tried it before? 14:26:21 <andythenorth> so this is interesting: http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/releases/LATEST/firs-3.0.0-alpha-9-source.tar.xz 14:26:50 <andythenorth> if I un-archive that .xz I get a .cpgz 14:27:00 <andythenorth> and unarchiving that gives a .xz 14:27:03 <Eddi|zuHause> stefino: i did even worse things :p https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/cets/25/ 14:27:06 <andythenorth> rinse, repeat 14:27:44 *** TheMask96 has joined #openttd 14:29:33 <stefino> interesting but totaly incomprehensible to me :D I'm happy if I succesfuly code new trains/buildings and another things into the game 14:29:56 <andythenorth> make shorter trains :) 14:30:33 <stefino> this is our problem. because we like realistic graphics and short trains are not realistic :) :/ 14:31:15 <andythenorth> is problem yes :) 14:31:25 <andythenorth> tried MS Train Simulator? o_O 14:32:32 <stefino> and trains are more handicaped with this graphics lag than cars cause they are longer. you are quite right :P we are using 3D models from these simulaors :D :P 14:36:04 <andythenorth> I had trains up to 10/8 long in Iron Horse 1 14:36:08 <stefino> in the worst case we have to satisfy with flashing graphics but it is a shame 14:36:12 <andythenorth> but for v2, I’m reducing them all to 8/8 14:36:45 <stefino> yes but you make 8bpp or not? 14:36:52 <andythenorth> 8bpp 14:37:28 <stefino> yes..8bpp is more accessible than extrazoom in 32bpp 14:38:16 <stefino> if you take realistic wagon and make it shorter for 8/8 , it looks realy crazy 14:39:21 <stefino> we make length deformation too but not so big as OTTD wants 14:40:15 *** Hiddenfunstuff has joined #openttd 14:40:31 <Eddi|zuHause> stefino: https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/1990/Hawthorn___Co.__6._Okt_1922.png 14:42:06 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: it is a nice effect :) 14:42:08 <stefino> it looks interesting - more Z axis rotations than 8? 14:42:41 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, and all abusing some newgrf variables, not changing the actual game internals 14:43:23 <Eddi|zuHause> basically, you check how the 3 part vehicles are positioned (all straight, first one turned 45° others straight, etc.) 14:44:57 <stefino> yes yes I understand :) nice idea 14:46:11 *** Geth has quit IRC 14:46:45 <stefino> you are switching active graphics between these 3 boxes what makes a wagon 14:47:53 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, if they are all straight, each vehicle shows a slice of the whole vehicle, and if any turns/height changes are present, the center vehicle shows the whole sprite, the others invisible 14:49:38 <stefino> is this graphics on dev zone? 14:49:44 *** Geth has joined #openttd 14:51:53 <Eddi|zuHause> small excerpt from the core logic: https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pystey9tu 14:53:20 <Eddi|zuHause> stefino: i posted a link earlier where you can download it 14:54:26 *** Hiddenfunstuff has quit IRC 14:55:21 <stefino> I'm trying to understand the code :D 14:56:43 <Eddi|zuHause> ok, first thing you should probably know is how var 62 works: https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/VariationalAction2/Vehicles#Curvature.2Fposition_difference_for_n-th_vehicle_in_chain_.2862.29 14:57:04 <Eddi|zuHause> unfortunately, nml does not have the ability to work with varibables that take parameters properly 14:57:20 <Eddi|zuHause> so it has to be done via "var[]" 14:58:30 <stefino> okay okay 14:59:33 <Eddi|zuHause> SLICE will be 0 for the center vehicle, -1 for the front vehicle, and +1 for the back vehicle 14:59:48 <Eddi|zuHause> i think 14:59:50 <Eddi|zuHause> not sure anymore 15:00:47 <Eddi|zuHause> so lets take apart the first switch formula: 15:01:03 <Eddi|zuHause> ((var[0x62, 24, 0x000000FF, -1 - (SLICE)] - var[0x62, 24, 0x000000FF, -0 - (SLICE)]) & 0xFF) << 8 15:01:05 <Eddi|zuHause> | ((var[0x62, 24, 0x000000FF, -0 - (SLICE)] - var[0x62, 24, 0x000000FF, 1 - (SLICE)]) & 0xFF)) 15:01:19 <Eddi|zuHause> the first part checks the height difference between the front and the middle part 15:01:28 <stefino> yes 15:01:30 <Eddi|zuHause> and the second part checks the height difference between middle and back part 15:01:54 <Eddi|zuHause> if both are 0, you branch to the spriteset that shows the sliced vehicles 15:02:14 <Eddi|zuHause> otherwise you show the full sprite for the middle part (SLICE == 0) and invisible sprite for the other parts 15:03:00 <stefino> aaah...yes 15:03:06 <stefino> inderstood 15:03:23 <stefino> u* 15:04:16 <Eddi|zuHause> the second switch works in a similar way, just it extracts the direction part instead of the height part from var62 15:04:20 *** ToBeFree has joined #openttd 15:06:13 <Eddi|zuHause> if all changes are 0 you go to the height switch, because the vehicle is straight 15:06:38 <stefino> yes 15:06:39 <Eddi|zuHause> if one of the changes is "1" or "F" (turn right or left, i forgot which way around) you show one of the various angles 15:06:56 <Eddi|zuHause> and the last line in that is some fallback for weird combinations 15:07:22 <Eddi|zuHause> again, if SLICE is not 0, you show invisible sprites instead 15:08:21 <stefino> ok this looks "easy" now 15:08:23 <Eddi|zuHause> and the last switch checks whether the sprite you're resolving currently is in the world (viewport) or some gui (like train list, purchase window, etc.) 15:08:42 <Eddi|zuHause> because you don't want any of this angle magic in the gui 15:08:44 *** ToBeFree has quit IRC 15:10:37 <stefino> okay. and in the hight case the wagon changed graphics too? rotate in y axis? 15:10:49 <Eddi|zuHause> currently not, but it would be possible 15:11:24 <Eddi|zuHause> the options inside the switch would look more like in the second switch in that case 15:11:49 <Eddi|zuHause> after the "if SLICE == 0" line 15:14:22 <stefino> um...interesting . and one more question - i can't imagine the groups in second switch. I understad how it works but you have there 4 sprite groups. and one spritegroup is 1 possition of wagon. but there are more possitions than 4 or not? if you have asymetric vehicle 15:17:28 <Eddi|zuHause> well, each group has the 8 positions, like usual, for asymmetric vehicles 15:20:00 <stefino> ahh ok 15:20:06 <Eddi|zuHause> my sprite files look like this: https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/cets/repository/entry/src/gfx/pruss/E_Abt4_10_ABB_8bpp_normal.png 15:20:19 <Eddi|zuHause> and each of the sprite group cuts some different sections out of this file 15:20:22 <Eddi|zuHause> some overlapping 15:20:25 <Eddi|zuHause> some identical 15:20:31 <Eddi|zuHause> some with different offset 15:21:13 <Eddi|zuHause> figuring out these offsets is actually the tricky part 15:21:35 <Eddi|zuHause> because they're different for different vehicle lengths, directions, etc. 15:22:35 <Eddi|zuHause> for each of the angles, you take every 3rd of those blue sprite areas 15:23:23 <stefino> yes yes :) this sprite says everything :) 15:23:54 <stefino> so thanks a lot for explenation:) 15:25:57 <Eddi|zuHause> aaaanyway... i think xkcd got it wrong, a lid at a knife fight might work out quite well, actually... you can use it as a shield and work on disarming the other person 15:26:46 <Eddi|zuHause> with guns it's trickier, depends on how close you can get to the other person before he's ready to shoot 15:27:28 <Wolf01> Too bad that slicing won't work with 32bpp :( 15:28:02 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: why? 15:28:40 <Wolf01> Ok, you can do some antialiasing to mask the slicing points 15:28:52 <Wolf01> But the grf size will explode 15:28:59 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: this exact same code works with 32bpp sprites 15:29:07 <Wolf01> No, not the code 15:29:12 <Wolf01> The graphics 15:29:21 <peter1138> Why would it be any different for 32bpp than 8bpp? 15:29:42 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, the exact code already works with 32bpp sprites 15:30:03 <Wolf01> Oh, you have to draw the full wagon anyway, didn't see that last image 15:30:11 <Eddi|zuHause> fun fact: on the screen it doesn't look any different if you slice it up and put it back together 15:30:14 <Wolf01> I thought it composed it 15:32:32 <supermop> i would only use this method for rendered sprites 15:32:58 <supermop> would be too painful to draw all those angles 15:33:15 <supermop> i already get frustrated with the 8 views 15:33:36 <Eddi|zuHause> afair oberhümer put the focus on the 8 main views, and made the angles by some simple transformation tools 15:33:48 <Eddi|zuHause> on the grounds that they're probably not on the screen for very long 15:46:33 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, rendered sprites really only shine for extra zoom, they might look terrible in normal zoom 15:52:07 *** mindlesstux has quit IRC 15:52:09 <peter1138> When do we switch to a proper 3D engine :D 15:52:22 *** mindlesstux has joined #openttd 15:56:05 <andythenorth> when we have XML for mods 15:56:42 <peter1138> ini files 16:01:06 *** Cubey has joined #openttd 16:06:41 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm too far out of the buzzword game to come up with something witty here 16:06:48 <Eddi|zuHause> VR? 16:06:50 <Eddi|zuHause> AR? 16:11:45 <Wolf01> AR OTTD would be cool, trains running on my desk 16:11:57 <Wolf01> From the biscuit mine to my mouth 16:12:31 <supermop> Wolf01: thats what i need with my tramagochi 16:12:37 <andythenorth> AR OpenTTD probably works 16:12:40 <andythenorth> trains on the desk 16:12:47 *** stefino has quit IRC 16:14:23 <supermop> i guess i could use cnc router to inlay small brass channels into a desktop at 9mm spacing 16:14:31 <supermop> to make a tramway 16:14:59 <Wolf01> Just buy a kato unirail 16:15:06 <supermop> might keep electrocuting myself on it though 16:15:52 <Sacro> https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/store/p/openttd-transport-tycoon/9pjphwm23sds 16:19:42 <Wolf01> WAT 16:21:28 <Sacro> Dunno if it's allowed to be in there or not 16:21:57 <Wolf01> Just report it 16:22:22 <Sacro> Yeah but on what grounds? 16:22:30 <Wolf01> Scam 16:22:35 <Sacro> But it isn't 16:22:38 <Sacro> Is it? 16:22:49 <Sacro> It's got some extra xml and p7x files, pri files 16:22:59 <Sacro> I guess there's a possible GPL claim on those 16:23:22 <__ln__> however, GPL violation is not a 'scam' really 16:23:34 <Sacro> No 16:23:57 <__ln__> also, GPL doesn't forbid selling stuff for money. 16:24:21 <__ln__> and i assume OpenTTD is not a registered trademark 16:24:32 <Wolf01> Ok, then I could sell OTTD too 16:24:37 <__ln__> yes, you could. 16:24:39 <andythenorth> it’s in forums 16:24:43 <andythenorth> already 16:25:47 <andythenorth> it’s a GPL violation 16:26:00 <andythenorth> no offer to provide source 16:26:25 <__ln__> did you buy it and check that there is no offer? 16:26:31 <andythenorth> good point 16:26:32 <andythenorth> no 16:26:39 <andythenorth> someone buy it? o_O 16:26:45 <Sacro> I downloaded the trial 16:27:14 <andythenorth> is the binary accompanied by a written offer to distribute source? 16:27:43 <Sacro> comes with the COPYING file 16:27:46 <Sacro> If you know where to find it 16:28:00 <andythenorth> “probably fine”? 16:29:28 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i think the GPL has something about not needing a "written offer" for digital distribution, instead you must offer the source from the same place 16:29:31 <Wolf01> Then just purchase a dev license for windows store ( lifetime iirc) and put OTTD there for free 16:29:57 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: probably in the GPL FAQs somewhere :P 16:33:17 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 16:36:02 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 16:42:27 <andythenorth> quak quak 16:42:33 <Wolf01> Quak 16:48:29 <frosch123> andythenorth: someone already checked it 16:48:33 <frosch123> and hoi :) 16:55:16 * andythenorth such wagon length headaches :D 16:58:33 <frosch123> make a platform length patch to make the size of tiles configurable 16:58:37 <frosch123> can't be worse than daylength 16:58:40 <andythenorth> ha 16:58:49 <andythenorth> I should just make all the engines consistent lengths 16:58:56 <andythenorth> 8/8 is obvious 16:59:40 <andythenorth> :P 16:59:44 <frosch123> V went for 16/8 17:00:08 <andythenorth> I made it hard with steam engines at 6/8, 8/8, 10/8, 12/8 17:00:23 <andythenorth> makes for a lot of pax + mail cars in buy menu 17:01:18 <andythenorth> 3 generations of 4/8, 6/8, 8/8 pax and mail coaches 17:01:37 <andythenorth> 18 is a lot :P 17:01:41 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 17:04:12 *** glx has joined #openttd 17:04:12 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 17:09:02 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 17:11:30 *** Celestar has quit IRC 17:17:31 <V453000> sup huminz 17:18:19 <Wolf01> Waiting for FFF 17:18:28 <V453000> haha me too 17:19:44 <andythenorth> V453000: how long should trains be? 17:20:33 <V453000> units of 8/8 obviously :P 17:20:46 <Wolf01> More than 5 wagons said someone back in time 17:20:51 <V453000> can articulate stuff with smaller bits though 17:20:59 <V453000> oh like that 17:21:28 <V453000> well I consider 5 tile trains to be the golden standard, giant network people often prefer 3 tile trains 17:25:05 <andythenorth> 8/8 is problem for realism :P 17:25:37 <V453000> why? 17:26:19 <andythenorth> people built their RL trains wrong 17:26:22 <andythenorth> not considering my needs 17:26:32 <V453000> wtf? 17:26:45 <frosch123> V453000: andy wants engines with different lengths, but is obsessed with whole trains being whole tiles 17:26:51 <andythenorth> RL is rude 17:26:56 <andythenorth> I won this for trams 17:27:04 <andythenorth> but trams can’t be recombined arbitrarily :P 17:27:26 <V453000> andythenorth: have articulated 1-units trains? XD force configurations 17:27:31 <andythenorth> ha 17:27:37 <andythenorth> big buy menu :P 17:27:40 <andythenorth> such problems 17:27:41 <andythenorth> biab 17:27:44 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 17:29:44 <V453000> hmmm 17:38:17 <V453000> yeah nevermind it's totes dumb idea :D 17:54:46 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 17:55:19 <andythenorth> @seen simyoulater 17:55:19 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: simyoulater was last seen in #openttd 4 days, 23 hours, 43 minutes, and 31 seconds ago: <SimYouLater> I only have had time to change my important passwords. 17:57:15 <frosch123> funny quote :) 17:58:16 <frosch123> andythenorth: do you use autoreplace? 17:58:43 <andythenorth> yes 17:58:54 <andythenorth> autoreplace makes the coach problem much harder :P 17:59:00 <V453000> XD 17:59:22 <frosch123> so, if you built a train to full tile length with your 18 item purchase list, and replace the engine, it is wrong again? 17:59:23 <andythenorth> no mixed-cargo articulated consists 17:59:29 <andythenorth> yes 17:59:32 <andythenorth> it’s wrong again 17:59:44 <andythenorth> that is one of my problems, trying to work out a length schema 17:59:51 <frosch123> how about elongating the engines in the front with empty space *if* they are the first engine in the consist? 17:59:57 <supermop> integer tile trains and nice lengths for steam trains dont go together 18:00:00 <andythenorth> I need it to magically autoreplace to integer lengths, is brainfuck 18:00:05 <V453000> wtf are you doing andythenorth ? 18:00:16 <andythenorth> trains should be unit-tile lengths 18:00:16 <supermop> time to put dream to bed? 18:00:22 <supermop> meh 18:00:23 <V453000> just add tender when in doubt supermop :P 18:00:23 <andythenorth> nope 18:00:38 <supermop> nice to have, not need to have 18:00:38 <andythenorth> I can’t use the decimal lengths 18:00:44 <andythenorth> they’re lies 18:00:47 <andythenorth> and we can’t fix maths 18:00:49 <andythenorth> so eh 18:00:50 <supermop> use base 12 lengths 18:01:27 <frosch123> i guess when we change the vehicle movement for extra zoom, we should make it 60 substeps per tile :) 18:01:31 <andythenorth> I think consist templates might be needed 18:01:37 <andythenorth> just a small thing :P 18:01:46 <andythenorth> but eh, that’s the only missing feature in OpenTTD anyway 18:02:12 <supermop> refit wagons to different lengths 18:02:21 <V453000> new project or IH? 18:02:32 <supermop> he's redoing ih 18:02:37 <frosch123> also, how much will 8bpp people complain if we draw engines with anti-aliasing at non-integer pixel positions? 18:02:38 <V453000> oh god 18:02:45 <V453000> y u no new set if redoing :D 18:02:51 <V453000> is what I intend with nus 18:03:05 <V453000> it has issues, sure, but reworking it all isn't beneficial 18:03:20 <andythenorth> says V453000 :) 18:03:54 <andythenorth> frosch123: can you draw them sharply on my retina screen? o_O 18:04:04 <andythenorth> I have sub-pixel drawing capability :P 18:04:07 <V453000> well I don't know how much rework you have in mind 18:04:17 <andythenorth> total 18:04:24 <andythenorth> is shit 18:04:40 <V453000> antialiasing? wot 18:05:07 <V453000> andythenorth: hm, what are issues? 18:05:25 <andythenorth> is crap 18:05:27 <frosch123> andythenorth: will people complani if wagons sometimes have 2 or 3 pixel gaps between them? 18:05:30 <andythenorth> yes 18:05:37 <andythenorth> V453000: train lengths have no scheme 18:05:46 <andythenorth> and is bollocks 18:05:57 <andythenorth> train is 1.7 long, add 0.4 wagon, it’s 2.0 18:06:01 <andythenorth> such rounding crap 18:06:02 <V453000> what scheme do you imagine to get? 18:06:09 <V453000> oh, well ... told you :) 18:06:10 <andythenorth> 4/8 and 8/8 mostly 18:06:18 <V453000> you will always get that shit with wtf lengths 18:06:21 <andythenorth> yes 18:06:24 <andythenorth> delete lengths 18:07:49 <andythenorth> all winning 18:07:58 <andythenorth> except some things need to be 6/8 to look good 18:07:59 <andythenorth> or 10/8 18:08:01 <andythenorth> or 12/8 18:08:18 <V453000> 'need to' is just an excuse 18:08:19 <V453000> sorry :P 18:08:38 <frosch123> @calc 6/16*60 18:08:38 <DorpsGek> frosch123: 22.5 18:08:51 <andythenorth> V453000: make argument for solution? 18:08:57 <frosch123> @calc 5.5/16*60 18:08:57 <DorpsGek> frosch123: 20.625 18:09:09 <frosch123> @calc 5.75/16*60 18:09:09 <DorpsGek> frosch123: 21.5625 18:09:16 <andythenorth> if engines don’t get longer, wtf? Player needs ‘bigger’ to feel progression 18:09:22 <V453000> I believe you can always add length by more details or whatnot, or subtract by chibbializing 18:09:55 <V453000> NUTS solves that by having the engine getting shorter in the front 18:10:00 <V453000> so they tile correctly to wagons 18:10:08 <V453000> of course in multiengine setups this doesn't work as great 18:10:31 <V453000> in next train set I want to have consist-aware trains so they merge if they are multiple after one another 18:11:17 <V453000> ... it is getting shorter just visually, logically maintaining 8/8 18:13:11 <V453000> oh I am also obliged to tell you that I hate FIRS3 because suddenly many cargoes are unknown to NUTS and don't have unique graphics :D 18:13:17 <V453000> I win now 18:14:30 <andythenorth> nah, I win by making you hate 18:14:37 <andythenorth> you need to draw PIPE 18:14:40 <V453000> dam 18:14:50 <andythenorth> SULP is easy 18:14:52 <V453000> eh no 18:14:52 <andythenorth> just yellow 18:15:15 <andythenorth> http://images.dailytech.com/nimage/Sulfur_Waste_Pile_Wide.png 18:16:11 <V453000> without ability to define more custom signals (one of the fancy FS tasks you asked me about), I think PIPE is not a great concept. signals are necessary to make any train system work otherwise it's just dumb imo 18:16:22 <V453000> and making signals for it right now would be a pain esp in diagonals 18:16:34 <V453000> but eh 18:16:40 <andythenorth> nah, I mean PIPE cargo 18:16:44 <andythenorth> not PIPE grf 18:16:51 <V453000> I wouldn't do anything about it regardless :P 18:16:55 <V453000> ooooooo 18:16:56 <V453000> ooooo 18:16:59 <V453000> sorry 18:17:19 <andythenorth> here is realism for you to copy http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/lego-adam/PipeTransport/01.jpg 18:17:23 <V453000> vehicle parts, vehicles, pipes, and there was some more 18:17:26 <V453000> well I need to draw a bunch 18:17:45 <V453000> well I won't draw it for nuts probably :P 18:18:38 <andythenorth> well I am done adding to FIRS for a bit 18:18:43 <andythenorth> no v4 planned anytime soon 18:18:48 <andythenorth> next thing I have to do 18:18:57 <andythenorth> is fix the wall of shame that is Extreme economy 18:19:06 <andythenorth> don’t want to do that 18:19:10 <V453000> well I didn't even properly play v2 and now there is v3 18:19:12 <V453000> soooo yeah 18:19:19 <V453000> haha 18:19:26 * andythenorth doesn’t want to die leaving Extreme in current form 18:19:30 <andythenorth> unfinished business 18:19:56 <V453000> kind of out of the loop so I can't talk much about details in FIRS, steeltown seemed interesting but I kind of lost focus after I connected ES 18:20:14 <andythenorth> same here 18:20:18 <V453000> everything was max production before 1910 and I started in 1900 18:20:27 <andythenorth> I got 25 years out of it 18:20:40 <V453000> so I didn't feel incentivized to do more things 18:20:58 <andythenorth> I think iz fine 18:21:10 <V453000> it's perfectly fine 18:21:12 <andythenorth> it’s ‘connect all the chains once’ kind of gameplay 18:21:16 <andythenorth> then start a new map 18:21:23 <andythenorth> problem with Extreme 18:21:26 <V453000> it's a problem that you can spot everywhere in firs 18:21:34 <andythenorth> I designed it originally to try keeping game going 18:21:37 <andythenorth> with 'moar' 18:21:40 <andythenorth> but ‘moar’ is boring 18:21:53 <V453000> if I was to fix it somehow, I would make many more levels of production so that the high ones aren't that trivial to reach 18:22:06 <V453000> well moar can be less :P 18:22:21 <andythenorth> I considered ‘level up’ mechanic for supplies 18:22:23 <V453000> as in, have current gung-ho about the max, just have many more intermediate steps 18:22:31 <supermop> this is cute: 18:22:33 <supermop> http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10466090 18:22:39 <andythenorth> like once per year, if supplied enough, an increase 18:22:43 <andythenorth> by 25% or so 18:22:56 <andythenorth> gung-ho is kind of daft 18:23:34 <V453000> it is ridiculously easy to achieve 18:26:38 <andythenorth> well it’s designed specifically for NoCarGoal or Silicon Valley :) 18:26:44 <andythenorth> owing to…reasons :P 18:26:55 <V453000> ._. 18:26:58 <andythenorth> isn’t it 18:27:04 <V453000> is 18:27:21 <andythenorth> this is the kind of FIRS-is-shit I am ok with :) 18:27:28 <andythenorth> at least I know why and how 18:27:46 <V453000> interesting approach :P 18:27:51 <andythenorth> v4: better production 18:28:02 <V453000> =D 18:31:54 *** Progman has joined #openttd 18:36:08 <andythenorth> so how will templated consists be done then? 18:36:19 <andythenorth> can we just do autoreplace with arithmetic? 18:36:31 <andythenorth> ‘for wagon foo, add 2 wagons bar' 18:36:54 <andythenorth> ‘for 2 wagon red, add one wagon blue’ 18:40:31 <supermop> just save consists the way one makes groups? 18:41:19 <supermop> then in replace be able to select saved consists as if they they were vehicles 18:41:35 <supermop> like the now replacing engine/wagons 18:41:42 <supermop> add /consists? 18:42:32 <supermop> so a consist may or may not be added behind some other vehicle i guess 18:46:20 <andythenorth> template consists means virtual trains and crap 18:46:26 <andythenorth> and newgrf shenanigans 18:46:34 <andythenorth> not sure anyone will ever achieve it 18:46:50 <andythenorth> wondering if ‘complicated replace rules’ is better 18:49:10 <Alberth> if you can script it, you basically have consists, except in script form rather than as already built (virtual) train 18:49:17 <frosch123> andythenorth: there are two patches for it 18:49:29 <andythenorth> I guess I have to try them :| 18:49:50 * andythenorth doesn’t understand how it can be done with newgrfs 18:50:01 <andythenorth> the virtual train won’t exist, so it won’t have a railtype 18:50:25 <andythenorth> newgrfs that make extensive use of cb36 are going to break] 18:50:37 <andythenorth> we’ll get another 30 FS asking for special variables in templates 18:50:57 <andythenorth> also the virtual train won’t have a lifetime or build date 18:50:59 <andythenorth> so same issues 18:52:31 <frosch123> the things you listed are dead easy to solve 18:52:47 <frosch123> date is just current date 18:52:50 <andythenorth> this is why andythenorth is not a programmer :| 18:52:59 <frosch123> it's most fitting because that's what other trains will be replaced with 18:53:45 <frosch123> just build a depot on tile 0 and stop trains in it 18:54:05 <frosch123> trains never age there, are always new 19:05:40 <andythenorth> :) 19:07:18 <andythenorth> Wolf01 :P https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1191922#p1191922 19:07:35 <andythenorth> did you mean ‘this is why we got stuck and NRT isn’t in trunk’ or so? 19:17:03 *** Alberth has left #openttd 19:24:22 <V453000> can't seem to decide if I really want to make my next train set in pixel pushing or 3D pushing 19:24:45 <V453000> but I guess I can always return to nuts pixel pushing if I really wanted to do the former 19:24:51 <V453000> the fact that I don't already speaks for itself 19:25:06 <andythenorth> you’ll just get pissed off with them 19:25:15 <V453000> and ifn o aand if no EZ then grf not new enough 19:25:38 <V453000> duh 19:25:52 <V453000> and if no EZ then grf not new enough 19:25:56 <V453000> iz what I meant 19:26:09 <V453000> am on macbook, not used to this 19:26:53 <V453000> and pixel pushing x4 sprites sounds pretty fucked up 19:28:06 <andythenorth> such keys 19:28:27 <andythenorth> type them in any order 19:29:17 <V453000> that's basically what I am doing, writing down a grf design document 19:29:21 <V453000> such serious 19:29:31 <V453000> that piece of trash has been laying around my disks for too long 19:32:59 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 19:33:06 <andythenorth> hmm 19:34:12 *** behindTheWheel has joined #openttd 19:34:17 <andythenorth> err 19:34:30 <behindTheWheel> hi all 19:34:35 * andythenorth might have found a way to have just 7 pax and mail cars 19:34:40 <andythenorth> including two classes of pax :P 19:35:08 <behindTheWheel> want to start play opentdd (played n years ago) should I start single game or connect to some server is ok ? 19:35:34 <andythenorth> either :) 19:36:09 <behindTheWheel> dont want to spoil online game being a noob 19:41:31 <frosch123> different servers have different rules 19:41:52 <frosch123> there is no general rule except "dont be a dick" 19:43:06 <andythenorth> supermop: finished it http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8611/shredder_trois.png 19:43:37 <supermop> looks british 19:44:22 <supermop> andythenorth: you could reduce generations of passenger cars 19:44:45 <supermop> have a mk3 that you can keep buying forever 19:44:48 <andythenorth> :) 19:45:19 <andythenorth> kind of the conclusion I’ve got to 19:47:27 <andythenorth> what shall I call that engine? 19:47:38 <andythenorth> ‘shredder’ isn’t right :P 19:54:36 <supermop> yorkie 19:54:58 <andythenorth> ha 19:56:57 <supermop> name after some moor 19:57:14 <supermop> marston moor? 19:57:23 <supermop> some oter civil war battle? 19:58:46 <andythenorth> controversial :) 19:58:49 <andythenorth> cavalier? 19:58:52 <andythenorth> roundhead? 19:58:55 <andythenorth> tudor? 19:59:01 <andythenorth> white rose 20:01:36 <supermop> roundhead sounds train-y 20:01:44 <supermop> tudor could work 20:01:48 <supermop> white rose idk 20:02:04 <supermop> weren't there a cromwell loco irl? 20:02:27 <supermop> whats the name of the keep in York? 20:02:51 <supermop> idk just call it doncaster 20:02:59 <supermop> that's plenty train-y 20:13:42 <Wolf01> <andythenorth> did you mean ‘this is why we got stuck and NRT isn’t in trunk’ or so? <- yeah, my english sometimes is too much italian 20:14:00 <andythenorth> :) 20:14:13 <andythenorth> meanwhile this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQ4R30OhEAE 20:14:16 <andythenorth> peter1138: ^ 20:22:41 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 20:30:24 <Arveen> that one sound very nice 20:33:07 <peter1138> nice 20:33:29 <peter1138> er 20:33:30 <peter1138> well 20:33:37 <peter1138> Sounds good until the "vocal" comes on. 20:33:43 *** ToBeFree has joined #openttd 20:41:32 <andythenorth> turn it up louder 20:41:38 <andythenorth> :P 20:42:16 <Wolf01> andythenorth: https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=75637&p=1191929#p1191929 better now? 20:42:38 <andythenorth> :D 20:43:46 <Wolf01> BTW, I'm totally fine if they want to merge the current NRT in their patchpacks, but I warn them that they will end up with some incompatible thing in future 20:44:07 <andythenorth> and newgrfs that need updated 20:44:16 <andythenorth> [shrug] :) 20:45:05 <Wolf01> Even the current unspooled etc probably will be useless in future with BGT 20:46:21 *** zeta has quit IRC 20:47:40 *** zeta has joined #openttd 20:50:50 *** zeta has quit IRC 20:52:56 <supermop> bgt? 20:57:37 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 20:57:56 <Wolf01> Short for NRTBGT 20:58:11 <Wolf01> Which is NotRoadTypesButGroundTypes 20:58:21 *** blocage has quit IRC 20:59:12 <Wolf01> So, in future you will have just to change the ground for the pavement of the tramway, not define 6 tramways with the same specs 20:59:28 <supermop> i still dont get what the point of a ground type is, and what it has to do with roads 21:02:38 <supermop> hmm i am too bored i think i should go home 21:03:00 <Wolf01> So you can go home when you get bored? 21:03:53 <Wolf01> supermop: BTW if you want to get into the discussion https://wiki.openttd.org/Frosch/ButGroundTypes 21:06:03 <supermop> Wolf01: i will probably be bored there too 21:06:24 <supermop> but it is 17:00 on friday and no one else is in the office 21:09:26 *** gelignite has quit IRC 21:09:48 <supermop> still think towns should build more than just road 21:10:05 <Wolf01> That's a different problem 21:10:45 <supermop> otherwise ROAD must be something that makes sense from year 0 21:10:59 <supermop> but that might look stupid in year 3000 21:12:22 <supermop> brb 21:13:46 <Wolf01> The problem might be the auto-upgrade of the roads, towns should build dirt/cobble roads, then with the ages they should upgrade to asphalt/concrete 21:16:20 <andythenorth> switch graphics by date :P 21:16:32 *** smoke_fumus has joined #openttd 21:16:48 <Wolf01> Eh... not so simple 21:17:03 <Wolf01> 1. MakeWholeMapDirty() 21:17:28 *** smoke_fumus has quit IRC 21:17:29 <Wolf01> 2. You should switch the roadtype, because you might want different road properties 21:27:22 *** behindTheWheel has quit IRC 21:56:54 <andythenorth> is bed 21:56:54 *** andythenorth has left #openttd 22:02:06 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 22:05:02 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 22:05:02 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 22:12:01 *** tokai has quit IRC 22:32:56 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: automatic road upgrade should be in the town growth algorithm, probably 22:33:39 <Wolf01> Not really growth, but a parallel one 22:33:59 <Wolf01> And it should call roadworks, just to be evil :> 22:34:03 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: in each growth cycle, town has chance (1 in X) to upgrade the town center tile. and whenever the town growth algorithm goes from an upgraded road tile to an unupgraded one, it has chance (1 in X) to upgrade that tile 22:34:45 <Eddi|zuHause> that way, you slowly upgrade the roads from the town center outwards 22:35:00 <Eddi|zuHause> and you have a chance to tweak X 22:35:45 <Eddi|zuHause> and road repair could also trigger an upgrade 22:42:18 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 23:02:50 *** Stimrol has quit IRC 23:24:23 <Wolf01> Sleepflix time 23:32:51 *** Progman has quit IRC 23:32:55 *** ToBeFree has quit IRC 23:35:03 *** supermop_home has joined #openttd 23:35:58 <supermop_home> is transport fever worth getting? 23:37:00 <Wolf01> Yes, and no, depends on your expectations 23:37:17 <supermop_home> can I use it to collect trams? 23:37:36 <Wolf01> There are some trams yes 23:37:48 <supermop_home> can I add more trams? 23:37:51 <Wolf01> Yes 23:37:58 <supermop_home> and do i need steam to play it? 23:38:14 <Wolf01> Mmmh, I think there is a non-steam version 23:38:19 <Wolf01> Maybe on GoG 23:39:14 <Wolf01> BTW http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/browse/?appid=446800&requiredtags[]=Tram 23:42:21 <supermop_home> no Japanese trams 23:42:49 <supermop_home> "kiha58 is the Japanese diesel multiple unit" 23:42:58 <supermop_home> hopefully not the only one? 23:44:26 <Wolf01> Try their forum, if you know german... 23:49:29 *** blocage has joined #openttd 23:49:34 <Eddi|zuHause> they're from switzerland, they know almost all languages :p 23:50:14 <Wolf01> The problem is when you don't know the other languages :P 23:50:32 <supermop_home> how do you guys use this game? 23:50:49 <Wolf01> I run it and play :D 23:51:09 <supermop_home> is it practical to play around with pointwork/junctions, like a complex model railroad? 23:51:33 <supermop_home> or is it more like a prettier game with a different idea for cargo dist 23:51:37 <Wolf01> It improved greatly since the release, now it's playable 23:52:28 <Wolf01> I mostly do point to point, because industries follow the common market rules of demand and offer 23:52:32 <Eddi|zuHause> complex junctions were always a bit fiddly, but i haven't played with the latest changes 23:53:49 <Eddi|zuHause> but it was definitely a huge step up from train fever 23:54:45 <Wolf01> Cdist is also well done, transfer happen automagically and most things are automated wrt OTTD 23:55:56 <Wolf01> They removed the ability to connect stations like it's on OTTD and train fever, but doing so a station can transfer to any other different station in the catchement area 23:56:46 *** Geth has quit IRC 23:57:25 <Wolf01> And since the last update you can see through tunnel entrances :D