Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:06:04 *** Samu has quit IRC 00:07:36 *** firsquestion has joined #openttd 00:07:49 <firsquestion> hello 00:08:11 <firsquestion> is this the right place to ask openttd / FIRS questions? 00:09:55 <firsquestion> i want to know if the devs know about the MD5 mismatch for the latest version of FIRS (v3 alpha 10) 00:10:44 <firsquestion> is anyone here? 00:11:56 <Sylf> You should always just ask the main question 00:12:07 <Sylf> Someone will come around and answer it eventually 00:12:08 <firsquestion> sorry im new here 00:12:59 <firsquestion> but with the latest FIR 3, the MD5 hash for the openttd bananas server is "34 20 b9 7b 1b 84 19 4e d7 df 6f b7 8b 17 d8 f2" but the openttdcoop.org version, which seems to be the main FIRS site has an MD5 hash of 15 b9 63 1d b0 8d 31 99 33 32 27 9e 97 7d 5c c9 00:13:13 <firsquestion> so this "firs.grf" creates a mismatch 00:13:42 <firsquestion> im not sure which firs.grf is the main one that everyone in a server should use 00:14:44 <Sylf> When you try to join a server, it shows if you have all the needed newgrf. If not, it gives an option to attempt to download the right version on the spot from the official downloader system (bananas) 00:15:09 <firsquestion> yeah, and it said there was a mismatch since there are apparently 2 different firs.grf files, when they should be identical 00:15:11 <Sylf> so you don't need to try ti find all those md5 hash and stuff that's beyond what some of us would like to care about 00:15:26 <firsquestion> they both claim to be v3.0 alpha 10, but the mismatch means they are not identical 00:15:50 <firsquestion> with all of the other NewGRFs ive dl with the content program they all matched just fine 00:16:02 <firsquestion> but with the recent update to FIRS 3.0, there seems to be a problem 00:16:03 <Sylf> as long as you have a copy of the actual right version with the right md5 hash grfid and all that stuff, you can have multiple copies of firs 00:16:16 <Sylf> which server? 00:16:21 <firsquestion> but i need to know which version is the 'real' version 00:16:30 <firsquestion> bc a friend wanted to start an openttd server 00:16:51 <firsquestion> and they used the openttdcoop FIRS 3 which is apparently different from the bananas server 00:16:56 <Sylf> whichever version that's picked by the server is the correct version for that server. 00:17:08 <firsquestion> but which is the official FIRS version? 00:17:14 <firsquestion> bananas or openttdcoop? 00:17:16 <Sylf> Many versions. 00:17:30 <firsquestion> well which is the version that reddit uses? 00:17:31 <Sylf> There isn't a single official version. 00:17:39 <Sylf> So, just tell me which server you're trying to connect 00:17:46 <Sylf> Then I can tell what's going on. 00:17:53 <firsquestion> i guess im not understand why different versions are using the exact version number and filename. that part doesnt make sense 00:17:56 <firsquestion> ing* 00:18:11 <firsquestion> the server is currently down now due to the mismatch 00:18:15 <Sylf> file name really doesn't matter. 00:18:21 <firsquestion> and he asked me to figure out which version is the official FIRS version 00:18:23 <Sylf> Version number sometimes doesn't matter eith.r 00:18:32 <firsquestion> well the md5 mismatch stopped the game 00:18:40 <Sylf> Just tell me which server you're trying to connect, and THEN I can help you. 00:18:45 <firsquestion> we realized people had bananas versions from content, and the openttdcoop version 00:18:58 <firsquestion> the server is currently down now. you cant cannot to it 00:19:08 <Sylf> Which coop server are you trying to connect? 00:19:09 <firsquestion> he asked me to figure out which firs.grf is the official FIRS version 00:19:16 <Sylf> LISTEN 00:19:29 <firsquestion> its a person server thats down. you cannot connect to it 00:19:42 <firsquestion> he took it offline due to the mismatch 00:20:03 <firsquestion> and tasked me to figure out why theres a mismatch. and thats why im here bc i dont understand why there are multiple firs.grf files 00:20:17 <Sylf> Tell him to bring it back online. 00:20:28 <Sylf> or her. 00:20:51 <firsquestion> but thats not the point . i just need to know which FIRS 3 is the 'correct' version 00:21:02 <Sylf> There is NO single correct version. 00:21:08 <Sylf> All versions are correct. 00:21:32 <Sylf> What version is correct for THAT PARTICULAR SERVER depends on what version of FIRS is used ON THAT SERVER. 00:21:37 <firsquestion> but dont you think thats confusing to have multiple files with the same name and version number and yet a mismatch still occurs? 00:21:43 <Sylf> No. 00:21:55 <Sylf> When mismatch happens, you can download the correct version on the spot. 00:21:56 <firsquestion> do you work with FIRS? 00:21:59 <Sylf> Then you have the right version. 00:22:03 <Sylf> Yes, I play with FIRS. 00:22:14 <firsquestion> have you tried alpha 10 by any chance? 00:22:18 <Sylf> No. 00:22:27 <firsquestion> do you know someone who has? 00:22:34 <Sylf> Listen. 00:22:38 <Sylf> I know what's going on. 00:22:50 <Sylf> I've been playing this game for 7 years. 00:23:13 <glx> I think you should ask again in a more GB friendly time 00:23:16 <firsquestion> so its common to have the same filenames and version numbers but the md5 is radically different? 00:23:23 <firsquestion> bc i thought bananas was the central server to get all the newgrfs 00:23:37 <Sylf> Yes, bananas is. 00:23:48 <firsquestion> https://bananas.openttd.org/en/newgrf/ 00:23:52 <Sylf> But bananas also hosts MANY different versions - all historically released versions. 00:24:00 <firsquestion> bc right now for FIRS 3, bananas is listing 2 different sources 00:24:16 <Sylf> So it's best to download the version that's indicated as the correct version INSIDE the game. 00:24:21 <firsquestion> so why doesnt bananas have the other md5 version then? 00:24:33 <firsquestion> the one on that website is different from the linked openttdcoop one. its just very confusing 00:24:37 <Sylf> Bananas WEBSITE only DISPLAYS the latest version. 00:24:47 <firsquestion> but it also has a dl link too 00:25:00 <Sylf> But the in-game downloader can detect and download the correct version for any given server, as long as it was ever published on bananas. 00:25:01 <firsquestion> and that part worked fine for alpha 9, but alpha 10 was different apparently 00:25:09 <Sylf> I give up. 00:25:13 <glx> newgrf version is not reliable, that's why MD5 is checked :) 00:25:28 <firsquestion> yeah so if there are different md5 versions, why doesnt bananas list the other versions? 00:25:40 <Sylf> Some times the grf author forgets to update the version string between two versions. 00:25:58 <firsquestion> so that means the FIRS openttdcoop version is alpha 11? 00:26:05 <glx> maybe 00:26:21 <firsquestion> is one of the FIRS devs in this room now? maybe they can help me 00:26:40 <firsquestion> bc im just trying to find the latest version 00:26:41 <Sylf> Please, just DON'T download it from the bananas website. 00:26:48 <Sylf> DO USE THE IN-GAME DOWNLOADER. 00:26:58 <firsquestion> and doesnt the gamae downloader use the bananas website? 00:27:09 <firsquestion> or does it use a different server 00:27:12 <Sylf> Yes, but it can see more than what you see on the web site. 00:27:26 <Sylf> Actually, I take it back. 00:27:34 <firsquestion> so is there a website that lists all the different FIRS versions altogether? 00:27:38 <Sylf> bananas website is just a user interface to a bigger system called bananas. 00:27:44 <glx> that's why you should ask again at evening european time 00:28:06 <firsquestion> yeah it was my understanding that bananas was a central server and that if someone wants to host, they should go to bananas to get the newgrfs 00:28:13 <firsquestion> but then this mismatch occurred 00:28:31 <firsquestion> but it sounds like the website for bananas is not showing all the files 00:28:31 <Sylf> So, use the in-game downloader to download the right version for that server. 00:28:39 <firsquestion> so if there a bananas website that will show all the files? 00:28:45 <firsquestion> yeah the in game downloader gave me the wrong version 00:28:46 <Sylf> No. 00:28:47 <firsquestion> thats why im here 00:29:08 <firsquestion> bc the mismatch prevented the game from working 00:29:13 <Sylf> Please trust me, and use the in-game downloader. 00:29:21 <Sylf> How many times have I sad that so far already? 00:29:31 <Sylf> In-game downloader will solve your issue. 00:29:32 <glx> and download on the server page 00:29:33 <Sylf> Srsly. 00:29:44 <glx> not in main menu 00:29:48 <firsquestion> glx which page? 00:29:50 <Sylf> Oh, I forgot that that part. 00:30:01 <firsquestion> which server page 00:30:06 <Sylf> In the game, when you're trying to connect to the server, you can see the newgrf setting 00:30:19 <firsquestion> yeah it said mismatch in red 00:30:22 <glx> when you are joining a server you have the option to get missing newgrf 00:30:26 <Sylf> If there's a newgrf mismatch, you can open the dialog, and check which newgrf's are missing 00:30:38 <Sylf> on that window, there's also the button that lets you download the missing newgrfs 00:30:39 <firsquestion> well thats just it, they are both called alpha 10 00:30:51 <Sylf> Forget about alpha10 00:31:14 <Sylf> trust the game system, and let the game download the right version for you when you attempt to connect to a server. 00:31:25 <glx> in main menu you always get latest version, but in server page you get the required by server one 00:31:28 <firsquestion> yeah the dl the missing grf part didnt work 00:31:33 <firsquestion> does the server host have to config that? 00:32:12 <Sylf> If the dude who's hosting the server somehow got a version that was never released to the bananas, then that would be a problem. 00:32:37 <firsquestion> yeah he got his file from the FIRS website 00:32:42 <firsquestion> and that sent me down this rabbit hole 00:32:53 <Sylf> that's the problem. 00:32:53 <firsquestion> bc i get all of my newgrfs from bananas/content 00:33:09 <firsquestion> and i thought it had to be a bug since the filenames and versions are identical for some reason 00:33:10 <Sylf> He should use the version of firs that he can download in the game 00:33:32 <firsquestion> he said he couldnt get the content download to work on his server and had to install the newgrfs manually 00:33:38 <firsquestion> since he said everything is cmd line 00:33:51 <glx> it may be a newer version on FIRS site not uploaded to bananas yet 00:34:05 <firsquestion> yeah that part i dont know. all i know is that the md5 mismatch cause an issue 00:34:08 <Sylf> he can download things in-game over command line too. 00:34:25 <Sylf> have that server host come to the irc channel - that would be easier 00:34:41 <glx> he can also download files on a client and then copy them on his server 00:35:03 <firsquestion> can you give me the cmd line code to tell him? hes on a different irc server 00:35:10 <Sylf> rcon commands are good enough for in-game download of newgrfs 00:35:46 <firsquestion> so which rcon command would he type to get to to download latest ver of FIRS 3 and FIRS + ECS? 00:36:39 <Sylf> rcon content update 00:36:43 <Sylf> rcon content select all 00:36:50 <Sylf> rcon content download 00:36:59 <firsquestion> how to isolate the FIRS stuff? 00:37:00 <Sylf> that should download all versions available on bananas 00:37:28 <Sylf> rcon help content 00:37:36 <glx> https://wiki.openttd.org/Rcon_command#Installing_online_content 00:38:09 <glx> rcon content state firs 00:38:35 <Sylf> rcon content state FIRS 00:38:42 <Sylf> D: too slow 00:38:56 <firsquestion> is it case senstive? 00:39:10 <glx> probably not sensitive 00:39:15 <firsquestion> he says rcon isnt grabbing the files 00:39:22 <firsquestion> does he need to config something else to get it to work? 00:39:32 <glx> content state gives the id 00:39:36 <Sylf> he needs to have rcon password set in the openttd.cfg 00:39:46 <Sylf> and pass the rcon password with each rcon command 00:39:46 <glx> then rcon select <id> 00:39:51 <firsquestion> how does he get the pw? 00:40:01 <glx> it's set in cfg 00:40:04 <Sylf> vim openttd.cfg 00:40:27 <firsquestion> he said he already set the pw in the cfg 00:40:30 <firsquestion> what else can he check 00:40:41 <Sylf> help rcon 00:40:51 <Sylf> so, those commands would be more like 00:40:54 <glx> first step is always "rcon content update" 00:41:02 <Sylf> rcon password 'content update' 00:41:13 <Sylf> rcon password 'content select 4865' 00:41:19 <Sylf> rcon password 'content download' 00:41:21 <Sylf> etc 00:41:33 <firsquestion> he says it fails to dl and doesnt return an error 00:41:55 <Sylf> where is he running those commands? 00:42:06 <Sylf> from a client that's connected to the server? 00:42:12 <firsquestion> the server is all cmd line 00:42:14 <firsquestion> no gui 00:42:19 <firsquestion> so he just rcons thru there 00:42:27 <Sylf> then that's not rcon 00:42:27 <firsquestion> it doesnt have a client 00:42:41 <glx> oh skip rcon if there's local access to the consol 00:42:42 <Sylf> rcon is remote control 00:42:50 <firsquestion> glx so what should he do? 00:42:55 <Sylf> content update 00:42:59 <Sylf> content select XXXX 00:43:01 <Sylf> content download 00:43:08 <firsquestion> Sylf: he says that keeps failing 00:43:17 <firsquestion> it just doesnt dl anything apparently 00:43:21 <glx> Wait until "Content server connection closed" is printed in the console. 00:43:26 <Sylf> We really need that guy in this channel. 00:43:36 <Sylf> Can't he connect to 2 irc servers? 00:43:44 <glx> of course he can :) 00:43:54 <glx> I'm on 4 servers 00:43:59 <firsquestion> unfortunately he says he doesnt want to go to another server 00:44:07 <firsquestion> >_< 00:44:46 <glx> @ports 00:44:46 <DorpsGek> glx: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound) 00:45:36 <glx> just in case it's a firewall problem, but outbound connections should not be a problem 00:47:55 <glx> anyway after typing "content update" he has to wait until "Content server connection closed" is printed in the console. 00:49:27 <glx> because the list is retrieved asynchronly I think 00:50:59 <firsquestion> hes also asking what is the content download folder for a server? 00:51:05 <firsquestion> where* 00:51:15 <Sylf> it worked for me to download when I tried the commands before I saw the server connection closed message 00:51:42 <firsquestion> he also tells me hes forced to manually unpack the tar files 00:51:47 <firsquestion> shouldnt content dl do this for him? 00:51:51 <glx> no need to unpack tar 00:51:58 <firsquestion> so what is he doing wrong? 00:52:07 <glx> openttd just reads them natively 00:52:09 <firsquestion> he says he only see the tars 00:52:23 <Sylf> don't forget rescannewgrf command after download is done 00:52:44 <Sylf> and don't forget to update the openttd.cfg to use the right version of firs 00:52:48 <firsquestion> rcon rescan newgrf? 00:53:05 <Sylf> just rescannewgrf 00:53:12 <Sylf> because he's not using rcon 00:57:17 <firsquestion> he says rescannewgrf isnt working 01:00:13 <glx> hmm isn't rescannewgrf a dev command ? 01:00:39 <Sylf> Sorry, but "it isn't working" doesn't allow us to help you much 01:01:13 <Sylf> we have no idea what's exactly not working, how it's not working... like what exact command was used, what the user exepected to see, what he user exactly saw in reality, etc 01:01:44 <Sylf> rescannewgrf is a pretty generic command to me 01:01:52 <Sylf> it's listed in list_cmds 01:01:53 <firsquestion> well the other thing i want to know is that, i had alpha 9 and then told content dl to get firs 3 alpha 10 01:02:03 <firsquestion> but now my alpha 9 file is no longer listed under 'active newgrf files' 01:02:12 <firsquestion> its apparently gone. is that normal? you cant have more than one version listed? 01:02:25 <Sylf> there's an option somewhere to display all the versions that you have. 01:02:33 <firsquestion> how? 01:03:34 <Sylf> cheking... 01:03:38 <glx> set newgrf_show_old_versions 1 01:03:58 <firsquestion> ok let me try that 01:03:59 <Sylf> <-- too slow again D: 01:04:11 <glx> I had the wiki opened ;) 01:04:22 <Sylf> I was searching in openttd.cfg :P 01:04:37 <firsquestion> so that option cannot be set in game? 01:04:43 <Sylf> yes you can 01:04:44 <firsquestion> i dont see it in Settings 01:04:52 <firsquestion> different name? 01:04:56 <Sylf> hit ` key (or whatever key to the left of 1) 01:04:59 <glx> it's in the console only 01:05:03 <Sylf> that opens the command interface 01:05:10 <Sylf> and type in that command in that console 01:05:17 <firsquestion> oh so theres no gui for this? 01:05:24 <Sylf> apparently not 01:05:47 <glx> you usually don't want to see old stuff 01:05:51 <firsquestion> ok i pressed ` and typed it in 01:05:56 <firsquestion> but pressign enter didnt do anything 01:06:07 <Sylf> close the newgrf window and open it again 01:06:08 <glx> now open the dialogs as before 01:06:37 <firsquestion> its still not listing the older version 01:07:08 <glx> maybe be it also needs "set newgrf_developer_tools 1" 01:07:14 <firsquestion> ah there it goes 01:07:18 <firsquestion> i pressed ` in a different spot 01:07:38 <firsquestion> but thanks for the help! :) 01:10:48 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 01:19:50 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 01:20:41 <firsquestion> so on his server he still says that while content is download the tar files, the server still doesnt recognize the tar files as newgrf 01:20:50 <firsquestion> is there another setting he has to do to get it to recognize? 01:21:38 <Sylf> how did he determine that it doesn't recognize the tar files as newgrf? 01:22:46 <firsquestion> he launches the server and the newgrf isnt listed 01:23:08 <firsquestion> he keeps telling me he has to manually extract the tars to get the newgrfs 01:23:14 <firsquestion> and i told him the game should do that automatically 01:23:18 <Sylf> What does "the newgrf sin't listed" mean? Where does he expect to see it? 01:23:28 <firsquestion> the server loads and newgrf isnt loaded 01:23:36 <firsquestion> but he says content dl is just dl the tar file 01:23:56 <Sylf> yes, and that's all the game needs. 01:24:10 <Sylf> Has he edited openttd.cfg? 01:24:13 <firsquestion> yeo 01:24:14 <firsquestion> yep 01:24:29 <firsquestion> but he still says it doesnt work unless he extracts the tar files 01:24:44 <glx> is he using a savegame ? 01:24:55 <firsquestion> no 01:25:12 <Sylf> did he compile the game himself? 01:25:44 <Sylf> maybe he didn't have all the dev libraries, and it's not compiled with tar support? 01:25:47 <Sylf> I dunno. 01:26:05 <glx> tar doesn't require a lib 01:26:19 <Sylf> I wouldn't think so 01:26:35 <Sylf> but if he claims that it works when he untars the file... then I dunno 01:26:56 <Sylf> tar file works perfectly for me 01:27:13 <glx> maybe it's just a mistake in openttd.cfg 01:27:53 <Sylf> oh, yeah, if he edits openttd.cfg manually, the newgrf line probably looks different 01:28:29 <firsquestion> so is there a way he can do this without having to manually edit the cfg? 01:29:14 <Sylf> he can open openttd locally, set up newgrf locally, exit the game (which writes the correct version of openttd.cfg) and upload the cfg to the server 01:29:52 <Sylf> or, create a map locally, and upload the .sav file, and load the .sav file on the server 01:30:18 <firsquestion> well he doesnt use save files to start with 01:30:30 <firsquestion> i just dont understand why his server doesnt use the tars automatically 01:31:05 <glx> probably just a mistake in cfg 01:31:16 <Sylf> can we see the [newgrf] section of the cfg, maybe paste it on http://paste.openttdcoop.org/? 01:33:15 <firsquestion> ill ask 01:34:47 <glx> should be something like grfid|md5|tarname/newgrf.grf 01:35:17 <glx> with some optional parts 01:35:26 <Sylf> probably 01:35:35 <Sylf> F1250007|67611437534CD7C36BEF40A74063EF4B|firs_industry_replacement_set_3-3.0.0alpha10/firs.grf = 0 0 0 0 0 0 16 150 80 300 01:35:59 <Sylf> That's what I got when I loaded firs3 tar 01:38:06 <firsquestion> it looks like hes not available right now 01:38:15 <Sylf> o_O and my local copy of tar file doesn't have all-lower-case file name 01:38:33 <firsquestion> but when he comes back is there anything else i should tell him to try to fix the tar issue? 01:39:04 <glx> I think the issue is just an error in openttd.cfg 01:39:08 <Sylf> copy/paste the line I pasted and try that? 01:39:48 <glx> the best way to configure newgrf for a server is to do it in a client 01:40:09 <glx> using the GUI 01:40:16 <Sylf> I concur 01:43:26 <firsquestion> ok i have the openttd cfg i just have to post it 01:43:56 <firsquestion> version_string = 1.7.1 version_number = 17186CE9 [newgrf] 44440A01|FCEEC76CF44EC23E7FE9C88048CF11CC|av8_Aviators_Aircraft_Set-2.21/pb_av8w.grf = 54570101|E25D564F7F8F4B3AC6C7F375BD25B387|ussetw.grf = 41501202|B13DD8FB0D7C34CACAC2FE68BD137BB9|heqs.grf = F1250007|67611437534CD7C36BEF40A74063EF4B|FIRS_Industry_Replacement_Set_3-3.0.0alpha10/firs.grf = 4A530117|CA32127C974FD70434F9CA4E0AD4A501|EFrefit.grf = [newgrf-static] 01:44:20 <firsquestion> he told me had to manually extract the files to get the server to recognize them 01:47:03 <firsquestion> so can you see why it never wants to use the tar files from the cfg? 01:47:30 <Sylf> The only things that's different from my cfg line are 01:47:56 <Sylf> my line has all lower case file name, even when I'm on a system that cares about file name case sensitivity (linux) 01:48:19 <Sylf> and my line has extra values after =, which are the newgrf default values, I assume. 01:48:44 <firsquestion> so why are his uppercase? 01:48:59 <Sylf> Because he edited it by hand? 01:49:10 <Sylf> I can try his version and see 01:49:50 <Sylf> it works great here. 01:50:27 <Sylf> with ~/.openttd/content_download/newgrf/FIRS_Industry_Replacement_Set_3-3.0.0alpha10.tar in place 01:52:07 <firsquestion> can you copy and paste the full newgrf file with the lowercase? 01:52:11 <Sylf> where did he get his openttd? is his server running windows? linux? osx? 01:52:22 <firsquestion> i think its a linux box with only cmd line 01:52:30 <firsquestion> its an old comp 01:55:18 <Sylf> all lowercase would be ~/.openttd/content_download/newgrf/firs_industry_replacement_set_3-3.0.0alpha10.tar 01:57:17 *** sim-al2 is now known as Guest7375 01:57:19 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 02:01:48 *** Guest7375 has quit IRC 02:20:42 *** glx has quit IRC 03:23:21 *** firsquestion has left #openttd 03:23:43 *** efess has quit IRC 03:23:59 *** efess has joined #openttd 04:53:19 *** supermop_ has quit IRC 05:00:23 *** Cubey has quit IRC 05:14:30 *** supermop has joined #openttd 05:47:48 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 05:59:21 *** Arveen2 has joined #openttd 06:03:19 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 06:04:02 *** Arveen has quit IRC 06:15:23 *** Progman has joined #openttd 06:25:29 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd 07:22:29 *** Supercheese has quit IRC 07:23:06 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd 07:45:58 *** orudge` has quit IRC 07:46:07 *** orudge` has joined #openttd 07:46:08 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge` 08:00:06 *** Gja has joined #openttd 08:36:13 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 08:42:46 *** Biolunar has joined #openttd 09:00:46 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 09:00:59 <Wolf01> o/ 09:14:27 *** Supercheese has quit IRC 09:30:47 <crem> \o 09:43:01 <SpComb> walk into the past... dug these up for historical curiosity :) https://github.com/SpComb/myottd https://github.com/SpComb/myottd2/ https://github.com/SpComb/netdaemon#use-case--scenario 09:45:37 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 09:46:47 *** andythenorth has left #openttd 09:46:55 <Wolf01> Nice 10:14:16 <SpComb> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1193397#p1193397 10:31:51 *** Gja has quit IRC 10:50:37 *** none has joined #openttd 10:53:24 *** ToffeeYogurtPots has quit IRC 10:53:27 *** Mahjong1 is now known as Mahjong 10:54:29 *** Gja has joined #openttd 10:55:24 *** debdog has quit IRC 11:00:12 *** debdog has joined #openttd 11:31:12 *** Samu has joined #openttd 11:36:48 *** Biolunar has quit IRC 11:48:03 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 11:54:25 *** Compu has quit IRC 11:59:52 *** Compu has joined #openttd 12:12:35 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 12:31:42 *** JacobD88 has joined #openttd 12:33:50 *** JacobD88 has quit IRC 12:36:47 <Samu> how can I code this more efficiently? https://paste.openttdcoop.org/p2pn4keww 12:36:58 <Samu> can you notice the repetition 12:38:26 *** debdog has quit IRC 12:44:43 *** debdog has joined #openttd 12:47:37 <dihedral> Samu: methods? 12:50:40 *** Gja has quit IRC 12:56:57 *** Gja has joined #openttd 13:06:14 *** Flygon has quit IRC 13:24:03 *** Borg has joined #openttd 13:24:04 <Borg> hi 13:24:26 <Borg> on wiki, ctrl+click on goto station means full load.. but it sets full load any.. instead 13:24:29 <Borg> im running 1.6.1 13:24:34 <Borg> is there a way to make full load default? 13:31:58 <Samu> hold shift 13:32:05 <Samu> or is it control? 13:32:33 <Samu> ctrl-left click 13:33:13 <Samu> ah, the "full load" all cargo? 13:33:20 <Samu> nope 13:33:46 <Samu> dihedral: what methods? 13:34:59 *** goodger has quit IRC 13:35:33 *** goodger has joined #openttd 13:36:21 <Borg> yeah, full load all cargo.. 13:38:41 <Wolf01> It only works like that, make a patch with a settings to swap the behaviour 13:38:50 <dihedral> Samu: write a method to get rid of your repetition 13:44:53 <supermop> yo 13:48:38 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 13:51:51 <Borg> Wolf01: yeah, would be nice to have extra options in seting to set default behavior of buttons in orders.. 13:58:22 <supermop> hmm mother in law has sent me picture of ton of obi and kimono asking if i would like them 13:58:45 <supermop> could make the obi into Ties but seems like a shame to cut them up 13:59:01 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 13:59:13 <supermop> don't know anyone whole would wear formal kimono and need an obi otherwise 14:03:03 <Samu> tried googling methods, i'm not sure what I need 14:03:18 <Wolf01> Samu, functions 14:03:43 <Wolf01> Usually a "method" is a function which doesn't return a value 14:04:11 <Wolf01> You should google programming school first 14:14:31 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 14:14:40 <andythenorth> o/ 14:15:20 <supermop> yo 14:15:37 <supermop> left thumb drive at home, no newgrf work today 14:18:28 <andythenorth> supermop: https://www.ebuyer.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/New-electric-post-office-truck.jpg 14:19:29 <supermop> cute 14:19:48 <supermop> the triumph of laziness in industrial design 14:19:59 <supermop> aka Ives approach 14:20:01 <V453000> yo 14:20:37 <supermop> i quite like the electric fedex trucks that we've had in the city for a few years 14:21:12 <supermop> http://image.trucktrend.com/f/28721548+re0+ar0+st0/fedex-express-all-electric-delivery-truck-rear-drivers-side.jpg 14:22:22 <supermop> coke wore it better: https://cdn.vehicleservicepros.com/files/base/cygnus/vspc/image/2014/04/960w/coca-cola-alt-fuel-fleet_11407285.jpg 14:23:13 <supermop> apparently tesco have a few as well 14:23:42 <supermop> damn: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/56/First_FedEx_van_Memphis_TN_2013-05-17_002.jpg/800px-First_FedEx_van_Memphis_TN_2013-05-17_002.jpg 14:31:36 <Samu> for all stations that can be used from the list of all_stations, create another list of stations, then sort them by rating 14:34:18 <Samu> i need a way to get the number of stations I'm working with 14:34:49 <Samu> instead of st1, st2, st3 etc..., i get that number 14:36:08 <Samu> so if it finds 10 stations or 15 stations, I wanna distribute cargo to 10 or 15 14:36:12 <Samu> see what i mean? 14:42:58 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd 14:52:22 <supermop> i guess i could play a game for purposes other than checking sprite alignment 14:55:41 <V453000> :D:D:D 14:55:49 <V453000> no, there is no return 14:55:51 <Samu> im a terrible programmer, bla bla 14:59:09 *** Gja has quit IRC 15:08:19 <Wolf01> Samu: try with stations_list.size() 15:10:29 *** Gja has joined #openttd 15:14:44 *** andythenorth has left #openttd 15:19:31 <supermop> wife's company offers 'ozone scented notebooks' as swag 15:19:48 <supermop> raises the question: who the hell enjoys the way ozone smells? 15:20:03 <Wolf01> I do 15:20:08 <supermop> people with fetish for electric arcing? 15:20:14 <Wolf01> Yup 15:20:30 <supermop> i always feel like im about to die when i smell it 15:20:49 <supermop> like im about to get electrocuted or be in a fire 15:20:49 <Wolf01> I always smell my electric zapper when I charge it 15:21:04 <Gustavo6046> Larger grids should be broken into areas, where each has equal properties in all of the tiles pertaining to the area. Each area generates quickly a list of tiles that connects to any other area, if any, This is an alternate way of viewing a large graph; natural graphs, like slopes with integer heights and large 50m increments, are favored, due to the amount of repeating tiles. 15:22:10 <supermop> my dad had old G or O scale model train from the 50s, that was set up in basement of my grandparents house 15:22:26 <supermop> motors in the train put out ton of ozone 15:22:47 <Gustavo6046> supermop, is that why you play OpenTTD? 15:23:09 <supermop> no risk of getting electrocuted 15:23:12 <Gustavo6046> I only play because it's a fun, and also a very flexible game. I'm looking for a fun game that's easy to mod for YEARS. 15:24:41 <Gustavo6046> People should do motors whose byproduct is ozone, not CO₂. That would help! 15:25:19 <supermop> Gustavo6046: not if you are standing near the exhaust 15:25:39 <supermop> also it takes more energy to make ozone than you'd get out 15:26:05 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 15:26:10 <Wolf01> Quak 15:26:34 <frosch123> moo 15:26:51 <supermop> " Exposure of 0.1 to 1 μmol/mol produces headaches, burning eyes and irritation to the respiratory passages.[17] Even low concentrations of ozone in air are very destructive to organic materials such as latex, plastics and animal lung tissue." 15:27:11 <supermop> CO2 sounds nicer to breath than O3 in that case 15:27:53 *** Maraxus has joined #openttd 15:27:55 <Wolf01> Just like McDonalds 15:30:11 <Gustavo6046> okay. 15:31:26 *** Cubey has joined #openttd 15:33:16 *** oskari89 has joined #openttd 15:37:09 *** Maraxus has quit IRC 15:38:22 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27928 /trunk/src (12 files) (2017-10-25 17:38:14 +0200 ) 15:38:23 <DorpsGek> -Fix: [NewGRF] While executing random triggers, var 5F should include the new triggers. 15:38:24 <DorpsGek> -Fix: [NewGRF] Reset used random triggers only after all A123 chains have been resolved, so that all RA2 in all chains can test the shard triggers. This also includes multiple RA2 in the same A123 chain. 15:38:25 <DorpsGek> -Fix: [NewGRF] Industry random triggers are stored per tile, even when randomising the shared random bits of the parent industry. 15:38:28 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27929 /trunk/src (3 files in 2 dirs) (2017-10-25 17:38:19 +0200 ) 15:38:29 <DorpsGek> -Cleanup: Remove unused Industry::random_triggers 15:40:02 <frosch123> LordAro: look, commits noone understands :) 15:41:23 *** Cubey has quit IRC 15:41:53 <LordAro> \o/ 15:44:31 <LordAro> frosch123: something mildly icky about all those waiting_trigger -> sprite resolve -> used_triggers blocks being duplicated like that, but... 15:45:55 *** Cubey has joined #openttd 15:47:55 <frosch123> they are all slightly different, since they are stored in structs or in the map array 15:51:07 <LordAro> mm 15:51:34 *** TheMask96 has quit IRC 15:52:38 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 15:53:15 *** Arveen2 has quit IRC 15:55:24 *** TheMask96 has joined #openttd 15:58:21 *** Alberth has joined #openttd 15:58:21 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth 15:58:25 <Alberth> o/ 15:59:04 <crem> \o 16:03:52 *** Arveen2 has joined #openttd 16:04:49 <Samu> Wolf01: i was able to create a list! i can also retrieve the number of items in the list 16:05:18 <Samu> to add a station I do: used_stations.Include(st); 16:05:37 <Samu> to get the number of stations it added, I do: uint no_stations = used_stations.Length(); 16:05:57 <Samu> now, how do I sort it by rating? 16:06:14 <Samu> highest rating first 16:06:19 <Samu> lowest rating, last 16:08:19 *** glx has joined #openttd 16:08:19 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 16:09:14 <glx> hello 16:09:30 <Samu> hi 16:09:31 <frosch123> hoi 16:09:59 <Samu> frosh, are u fixing bugs? 16:10:32 <Samu> is this considered a bug? https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=77176#p1193351 16:12:32 <Samu> aircraft goes from 2000 km/h to 321 km/h in 1 tick 16:12:46 <Samu> bug or intended? 16:13:07 <ST2> frontal wind 16:14:23 <supermop> Samu: any behavior that was in TTO or TTD cannot really be called a bug, even if undesirable 16:15:13 <Samu> :( 16:15:50 <supermop> frosch123: no newgrf work today so haven't fixed long names yet, but other than that i think the grf is pretty functional 16:16:25 <supermop> just need to add a check to switch the door open side when drive side is set to left 16:16:32 *** crem1 has joined #openttd 16:17:26 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 16:18:09 *** crem has quit IRC 16:18:58 <frosch123> door sides on local trains are interesting 16:19:17 <frosch123> trams mostly have doors only on one side 16:19:23 <frosch123> subways can have them on both 16:20:05 <frosch123> once i was in a subway which opened doors on both sides in one station, and you could switch to different trains on either side 16:20:23 <Cubey> What city? 16:20:33 <frosch123> i never figured out whether people also passed through the train to get from the left to the right neighbout or vice versa 16:20:39 <frosch123> Cubey: i think that was singapore 16:20:50 <Cubey> Wow that sounds bizarre 16:22:13 <supermop> frosch123: a few termini here have that, some other stations used to have it 16:22:29 <supermop> there is also the 'spanish solution' 16:22:55 <supermop> where one side is for embarkation and the other of disembarkation 16:23:32 <Cubey> Like a roller coaster! 16:23:48 <frosch123> i did not see that, the doors were always first-out-second-in 16:23:49 <supermop> trams in australia, and LRV here in the US have cabs at both ends, so they can reverse without a loop. 16:24:09 <supermop> so they also have doors on both sides 16:24:35 <supermop> and where there are real platforms, sometimes it is an island, sometimes on the sides 16:27:03 *** Biolunar has joined #openttd 16:42:42 <frosch123> Cubey: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanah_Merah_MRT_Station <- it is this one 16:43:16 <frosch123> three tracks, the middle one is a terminus line, the outside ones are opposing directions of another line 16:43:43 <frosch123> so you can enter/leave the middle line to either direction of the outside line 16:43:52 <frosch123> while hte middle line only has one direction due to being teminus 16:44:27 <supermop> one track terminus seems odd 16:45:11 <frosch123> well, maybe terminus is the wrong name 16:45:25 <frosch123> but it's the airport-connector which ends at that station 16:45:44 <supermop> no, it is a terminus, just an odd choice from operational standpoint 16:45:46 <frosch123> and you can switch to the other line, which has two regular directions 16:45:48 *** Biolunar has quit IRC 16:46:03 <supermop> as you loose some flexibility in lay-up of trains 16:46:26 <supermop> any train at the terminus absolutely must depart before the next one arrives 16:46:53 <supermop> so if it is late to leave, it will block the following train, 16:47:12 <frosch123> well, they all come and go from/to the same direction 16:47:19 <supermop> and if it needs to go out of service for some reason, it cannot easily do so there 16:49:45 <supermop> operations and movements at termini is maybe the thing about trains i am most interested in 16:50:01 <supermop> don't usually care that much about the trains themselves 16:58:50 <Wolf01> <frosch123> once i was in a subway which opened doors on both sides in one station, and you could switch to different trains on either side <- happened to me on one of the terminals in Tokio 16:59:31 <Wolf01> I don't remember the exact line, and mine was the last run :P 17:05:16 <Samu> qsort.cpp is a microsoft file, the game uses microsoft code to sort arrays? 17:05:25 <Samu> :( 17:05:29 <Samu> what am i supposed to do 17:06:43 <Alberth> huh? 17:07:16 <Samu> i was following the sort code, and i ended up in qsort.cpp 17:08:27 <Alberth> qsort(): POSIX.1-2001, POSIX.1-2008, C89, C99, SVr4, 4.3BSD. <-- my man-page it existed in the C language in 1989 already 17:08:38 <Alberth> +says 17:08:56 <Samu> // // qsort.cpp // // Copyright (c) Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. // // Defines qsort(), a routine for sorting arrays. 17:09:04 <Alberth> ie, it's a standard library function afaik 17:10:19 <Samu> /* $Id: sort_func.hpp 24900 2013-01-08 22:46:42Z planetmaker $ */ 17:10:34 *** Stimrol has joined #openttd 17:11:24 <Wolf01> Samu, what's the problem? If it's there just use it 17:11:52 <Samu> im trying to sort a list, i just don't know how 17:12:05 <Alberth> Samu: I only see a call to qsort, no #include of "qsort.cpp" or so 17:12:06 <Wolf01> Look at other usages of "sort" 17:12:12 <Samu> i list the stations in a StationList 17:12:19 <Wolf01> BBL 17:12:23 <Alberth> bye W 17:12:26 <Samu> they're not sorted 17:12:42 <Samu> how do i sort them by a criteria, highest ranking first 17:14:13 <Alberth> http://anyexample.com/programming/c/qsort__sorting_array_of_strings__integers_and_structs.xml ? 17:14:26 <Alberth> first hit of "qsort example" 17:15:53 *** Gja has quit IRC 17:16:07 <Samu> I got Station. it's a struct? 17:16:22 <Alberth> quite likely 17:16:31 <Alberth> but you can find that if you want 17:17:23 <Alberth> but qsort works in the same way no matter what type of data you have 17:35:04 *** synchris has joined #openttd 17:37:58 *** Gja has joined #openttd 17:54:27 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 18:02:21 <andythenorth> o/ 18:04:10 *** Samu has quit IRC 18:10:57 *** mindlesstux has quit IRC 18:11:26 *** mindlesstux has joined #openttd 18:13:41 <V453000> Eddi|zuHause: how exactly did that CETS thing work? The many rotations ... each vehicle has to be articulated into 3 parts and the middle part is looking at the relation of the other vehicles? 18:15:07 *** Samu has joined #openttd 18:18:47 <V453000> ah he first part is assigned the actual vehicle graphics, and the curvature between the first/second and second/third part is queried to show intermediate sprites when going around a curve 18:18:49 <V453000> hm 18:18:55 <V453000> is it a problem to have it on the middle part? 18:19:00 <V453000> that makes most sense, no? 18:21:00 <andythenorth> is all bonkers 18:21:53 *** synchris_ has joined #openttd 18:22:07 <andythenorth> V453000: are you asking for yourself, or for a friend? o_O 18:22:37 <V453000> for myself 18:22:44 <V453000> I'm seriously considering to use it 18:23:54 *** synchris has quit IRC 18:23:59 <V453000> I'm saving many sprites on the layering so I can afford to use something like that 18:24:05 <V453000> and I'm curious to try something new 18:28:17 <andythenorth> I tried the 10/8 thing in Horse 1 for similar reason 18:28:21 <andythenorth> but no regrets about deleting it 18:28:48 <V453000> you tried that 24 rotation thing? 18:28:51 <andythenorth> nah 18:29:00 <andythenorth> just 10/8 length using 3 part vehicles 18:29:05 <V453000> right 18:29:21 <andythenorth> and also articulated 10/8 3-part vehicles 18:29:24 <V453000> that's fine I will be using just 8/8 parts anyway 18:29:31 * andythenorth learnt some stuff 18:29:33 <andythenorth> was useful 18:29:33 <V453000> just wondering if I have to use 3-articulated vehicles for this hack 18:31:57 <andythenorth> you can do most of turning sprites without 3-part 18:32:03 <andythenorth> front and rear vehicles might have issues 18:37:09 <V453000> hm 18:37:30 <V453000> can I influence tilt flag by some callback? 18:37:44 <V453000> like if vehicles XYZ in consist, then use tilt? 18:39:11 <andythenorth> tilt is flag only afaik 18:39:18 <andythenorth> added it to Horse 2 this morning 18:39:46 <andythenorth> yeah no cb36 for it 18:44:50 <V453000> right 18:45:02 <V453000> need to make some vehicles have tilt and some not then 18:45:07 <V453000> so if you get a combination, you get the bonus 18:46:09 <andythenorth> so you have to combine only tilt vehicles? 18:46:22 <andythenorth> India landscape: http://www.railpictures.net/photo/635572/ 18:46:27 <V453000> yes 18:46:55 <andythenorth> seems fair 18:47:02 <V453000> 0/10 not gray 18:47:23 <V453000> idk, thing is that if I use 3-unit articulation for 8/8, it means I will do 2/8 + 3/8 + 2/8 18:47:35 <V453000> which are super short units, meaning they will have high speed in curves already 18:48:10 <V453000> and if I have multiple compatible track types, I can make some vehicles belong to a fast track type with moar speed allowance 18:48:18 <V453000> so tilt on drugs 18:48:34 <V453000> 260kmh on shortest curves is kind of retard mode though 18:48:43 <V453000> will test 18:53:14 <V453000> I was considering making 16/8 wagons 18:53:27 <V453000> but I also want 24/8 engines 18:53:31 <V453000> which doesn't do full tiles 18:54:35 <V453000> 8/8 will have to be fine 18:55:05 <andythenorth> I got about 260kmh, but not on shortest curves 18:55:37 <V453000> http://www.rayman4449.com/UP4014-3.jpg is giant shit with short wagons 18:55:38 <V453000> realism 18:55:48 <V453000> lawyered, I used a real photo for excuses 18:56:08 <andythenorth> game over 18:56:14 <andythenorth> you can never go back now 18:56:21 <andythenorth> 4/8 wagons are boss 18:56:23 <andythenorth> so are 6/8 18:57:03 <andythenorth> you could just drop the integer tiles obsession 18:57:06 <andythenorth> like, who cares? 18:57:38 <V453000> not convinced :) 18:58:27 <andythenorth> you should see my savegame :P 18:59:14 <Borg> fuuu :D I didnt played OpenTTD from years.. 18:59:16 <V453000> not sure if I should 18:59:19 <Borg> PBS is awesome 18:59:45 <Borg> actualy, with PBS.. u actually barely need anything other, right? 18:59:56 <andythenorth> V453000: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8732/horse_what_integers.png 19:00:32 <andythenorth> total integer madness 19:00:54 <V453000> I'm firmly convinced that visually all the 4/8 and 6/8 looks absolutely amazing and not using it is a lack of variety in the set 19:01:07 <V453000> but I'm still going to be a little piece of shit and use 8/8 19:02:29 <V453000> 24/8 might fit a big boy 4-8-8-4 19:02:33 <V453000> from seeing screenshots 19:02:38 <V453000> I mean photos 19:02:38 <V453000> :D 19:02:56 <V453000> oh yean not with tender 19:03:01 <V453000> that would be like 32/8 19:03:11 <V453000> 24/8 for slightly chibi version 19:03:55 <andythenorth> just go 48/8 19:03:59 <andythenorth> problem solved 19:04:02 <andythenorth> super awesome 19:04:51 <V453000> yeah 3 tiles 19:04:52 <V453000> perfect 19:06:11 *** mindlesstux has quit IRC 19:06:41 *** mindlesstux has joined #openttd 19:10:16 <frosch123> V453000: eddi draws the sprite with the first or last sprite depending on vehicle orientation 19:10:27 <frosch123> that is to minimise clipping with foundations, tunnels, bridges, ... 19:10:55 <V453000> ahhh that explains why the template looks like it does 19:11:01 <V453000> that's pretty smart 19:11:29 <V453000> I guess in terms of the turning logic it doesn't really matter which I choose to do 19:11:35 <frosch123> if you put the sprties on the middle part, it will clip with foundations on southern tile 19:11:47 <V453000> but isn't the middle best because it reacts most properly to curves (is center) ? 19:11:57 <V453000> even if it's 8/8? 19:12:20 <V453000> I guess it would eh if the articulated part is 2/8 or 3/8 19:12:38 <V453000> well ok I can try putting them on the ends, sounds like a good idea 19:12:51 <frosch123> possibly eddi does not just check the curvature, but also the positional differences 19:13:05 <V453000> :0 19:13:31 <frosch123> and then adjusts the sprite alignment so that it looks like the sprite is in the middle of the middle part 19:13:40 <V453000> I found this in the logs https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pystey9tu#line-16 19:13:42 <frosch123> while actually drawn by the southern part 19:13:46 <V453000> yes 19:14:02 <V453000> well ok 19:14:08 <V453000> I will attempt to get a template to work 19:14:23 <V453000> since all vehicles will be the same lengths and same articulated units, I guess it's "just" doing it once 19:21:42 <andythenorth> so In A Hot Country is currently best FIRS Economy 19:21:50 <andythenorth> in case anyone was wondering 19:21:52 <andythenorth> public service 19:22:13 <V453000> XD 19:22:16 <V453000> "ok" 19:25:51 <frosch123> V453000: actually, could you write a testgrf that does only draw the graphics with the middle part? 19:26:12 <V453000> I will definitely be making a barebones prototype as the first thing now 19:26:15 <frosch123> i wonder whether the clipping and alignment with the other parts couldn't just be done inside ottd 19:26:45 <V453000> collecting info for now, starting soon 19:27:11 <Eddi|zuHause> <V453000> is it a problem to have it on the middle part? <-- IIRC i have the sprite on the middle part on the map, and the first part in the depot (there was a thing about dragging that required this, may be fixed now) 19:28:18 <Eddi|zuHause> MB did some experiments with reducing clipping for the DBSet 19:28:27 <Eddi|zuHause> but i don't really remember the outcome 19:28:35 <Eddi|zuHause> and of course he didn't share his code with me :p 19:30:20 <V453000> oh 19:30:21 <V453000> interesting 19:30:34 <V453000> well I will do experiments 19:30:50 <V453000> is why I don't really want to super copy your code because I want to come to the conclusion and understand wtf 19:32:19 <Eddi|zuHause> the code is actually not complicated 19:32:40 <Eddi|zuHause> the offsets for the template are a giant pile of WTF, though 19:33:25 <V453000> right 19:33:32 <V453000> that's pretty much what I thought 19:35:50 <Eddi|zuHause> also, i think the template could use slightly better angles, to make it look less jumpy in curves 19:36:16 <V453000> I think with antialiased 3D renders it will look a bit smoother 19:36:35 <V453000> also is it possible to do 5 articulated parts and 4 extra intermediate rotations? 19:36:57 <V453000> I'm probably not going to do that, just wondering 19:37:18 <frosch123> we can likely do 64 rotations 19:37:53 <frosch123> the orientation is essentially the positional difference between first and last part 19:38:12 <frosch123> the longer the distance, the more orientations, 19:38:19 <V453000> I think 32 is the reasonable maximum 19:38:23 <frosch123> though turns > 90° make it complicated 19:38:26 <V453000> but that's just from pure guessing 19:38:45 <V453000> oh yeah I wanted to test with 90deg turns on :D 19:38:50 <frosch123> i would think you need more orientations the longer the vehicel gets 19:39:00 <V453000> pretty much 19:39:06 <V453000> I will certainly only have 8/8 19:39:08 <frosch123> you only want the vehicle ends to jump that many pixels 19:39:40 <Eddi|zuHause> my code basically ignores 90° turns 19:40:02 <V453000> is reasonable 19:40:17 *** Borg has quit IRC 19:40:20 <Eddi|zuHause> if it's not one of the 4 cases i test, it falls back to the default orientation 19:41:15 <Eddi|zuHause> you'd get too many edge cases to consider 19:41:30 <V453000> yes 19:46:51 <andythenorth> 90' turns are mandatory 19:48:13 <Wolf01> Pffft, just revert to 8 rotations if 90° turns are enabled, just to teach a lesson to the ones which want to keep that nasty thing on 19:48:20 <andythenorth> I played wrong for like 8 years, with 90' turned off 19:48:36 <andythenorth> next I should turn breakdowns back on 19:48:42 <V453000> XD 19:48:44 <Wolf01> :D 19:48:52 <V453000> not a bad idea Wolf01 19:49:00 <andythenorth> I only turned breakdowns off even because RVs can't find depots 19:49:16 <Wolf01> You don't build enough depots 19:49:32 <Wolf01> I always played with breakdowns (reduced) 19:49:39 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: but that just results in a huge set of people never even knowing there are more angles 19:50:27 <frosch123> V453000: https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pgov1p9hu <- that's what i could offer 19:50:41 <Wolf01> Good, and when they figure out from screens from me, V or mop that there are more angles, then they'll file bug reports which andy will close 19:50:50 <andythenorth> frosch123: more slugs... 19:50:52 <andythenorth> bendy slugs 19:51:13 <frosch123> andythenorth: how do you/other usually use vehicle ids in articulated vehicles? 19:51:28 <andythenorth> others, no idea 19:51:34 <frosch123> do some/multiple parts use the same id? 19:51:35 <andythenorth> I have base IDs going up in 10s 19:51:37 <V453000> basically what I did with DOOM, right? 19:51:46 <V453000> I had 1/8 or 2/8 parts 19:51:46 <andythenorth> then articulated parts are base+1, base+2 etc 19:51:53 <V453000> and sliced sprites to fit them 19:51:56 <V453000> but you would add bending 19:51:58 <andythenorth> I use lots of IDs 19:52:06 <frosch123> ok, so each articulated part has their own id 19:52:16 <andythenorth> I'd have to check my code 19:52:57 <andythenorth> ok, 100% identical units reuse the ID 19:52:59 <frosch123> V453000: the sprites would be positioned so that they look like the original sprite 19:53:00 <andythenorth> anything else, new ID 19:53:05 <frosch123> there is no shfiting between the slices 19:53:29 <frosch123> andythenorth: what is a 100% identical unit? 19:54:08 <frosch123> do you build short wagons in chunks like old nuts? 19:54:21 <V453000> right, well shifting between normal non-bending units is easy 19:54:29 <Eddi|zuHause> iirc, in CETS i have the articulated parts as base, base+0x2000 and base+0x4000 19:54:29 <supermop> sounds like a philosophical question 19:54:31 <V453000> just +4 -2 etc 19:54:39 <andythenorth> frosch123: better way to explain it 19:54:52 <andythenorth> every vehicle gets a unique ID 19:54:53 <LordAro> frosch123: so pango. which minimum version are you thinking of targetting? 19:55:01 <andythenorth> but some vehicles appear more than once in an articulated conisst 19:55:05 <andythenorth> consist * 19:55:37 <Eddi|zuHause> you can also put all articulated parts as one ID, and calculate position in chain mod 3 19:56:29 <Eddi|zuHause> but in this case, most of the properties must be dynamic 19:56:46 <frosch123> LordAro: are there differences? https://developer.gnome.org/pango/unstable/pango-Layout-Objects.html <- we mostly need that, and then tie it to our custom renderer 19:57:14 <Eddi|zuHause> whereas with three distinct IDs you can have one part have the capacity, and the other parts 0, etc. 19:57:26 <frosch123> not sure whether to do the ellipsis stuff with pango or inside ottd 19:58:07 <LordAro> frosch123: ok, well oldoldstable has 1.30, and there have been no changes to pango_layout_* since then, so it's probably good 20:01:01 <frosch123> LordAro: https://github.com/frosch123/OpenTTD/commit/90079aa366e7d96e6d17167ea40d21bd608971a7 <- i started by splitting the current layouter into multiple files (wip, does not compile) 20:02:06 <frosch123> but the #ifdef object inheritance does not make it easy 20:03:10 <LordAro> ah, cool 20:03:12 <LordAro> i'll have a look 20:03:46 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 20:04:28 <V453000> so would the latter thing you wrote frosch support the bending? 20:05:34 <frosch123> it's about drawing a single big sprite 20:05:43 <frosch123> it does not define how the sprite is choosen 20:06:15 <frosch123> so, would bendnig mean that you provide multiple bended sprites and can somehow decide how to concatenate them? 20:07:14 <frosch123> like ottd says, here are three parts _/¯ and the grf selects a single ∫ sprite? 20:08:09 <V453000> imagine I provide, say, 24 rotations 20:08:19 <V453000> would it cut the sprite and do the bending? 20:08:42 <frosch123> hmm, i guess i don't understand what you mean with "bending" 20:08:55 <V453000> the thing CETS Does 20:09:20 <frosch123> yes, that's what my paste is about 20:09:52 <V453000> that would be very interesting 20:10:03 <V453000> would it work in combination with the layering? 20:10:13 <frosch123> draw a single vehicle sprite with N rotations instead of separate sprites for M arituclated parts 20:10:33 <frosch123> V453000: all layers would have to use the same rotations 20:10:53 <frosch123> which probably makes sense :p 20:11:00 <V453000> yes :) 20:11:19 <frosch123> visual effects may be an open issue 20:11:23 <frosch123> where to spawn them 20:11:31 <V453000> :D oh 20:14:33 *** Alberth has left #openttd 20:19:19 *** tokai has quit IRC 20:19:50 <andythenorth> is bed? 20:22:14 <V453000> well if you slice the sprite 20:22:25 <V453000> then when it's bending you wouldn't see the walls between "parts" 20:22:30 <V453000> so you would see holes in the train 20:22:52 <V453000> defining sprites for every articulated part individually would still be better 20:23:01 <V453000> honestly the graphical slicing is the least issue 20:23:15 <V453000> figuring out the shifts and stuff as Eddi said is going to be insane 20:23:22 <V453000> so if it just does that drawing logic by itself, it's golden 20:23:24 <frosch123> the thing i posted is for wagons, not for slugs 20:23:39 <V453000> what's the difference between wagons and slugs? :D 20:24:15 <frosch123> wagons do not bend within 20:24:32 <frosch123> a wagon is straight from start of wagon to end of wagon 20:24:39 <frosch123> a slug bends in every place 20:25:15 <V453000> I see 20:25:28 <V453000> so you give 8/8 sprite 20:25:40 <V453000> and it slices it, but it always draws it as the full 8/8 sprite 20:25:50 <V453000> with less glitching because it knows the positions more precisely 20:26:45 <andythenorth> is bed :) 20:26:47 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 20:30:33 <frosch123> V453000: http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/multiarticsprite.png 20:30:59 <frosch123> upper picture is the current default: ottd draws three sprited (red) for three articulated part 20:31:36 <frosch123> bottom picture would be the new thing: ottd tells endpoints of wagon, and grf provides single sprite (red) mathcing the distance 20:32:23 <frosch123> thought argueable the blue points may need some adjusting 20:32:33 <V453000> interesting 20:32:55 <V453000> so it would look totally off the tracks sometimes? :D 20:33:20 <frosch123> well, grf defines where front and back axes are 20:33:31 <frosch123> they stay on track, middle part is inbetween 20:34:04 <frosch123> but this is no slug 1/8 behaviour 20:34:06 <V453000> right 20:34:17 *** Gja has quit IRC 20:34:21 <frosch123> unless you make the red sprite look bendy in itself somehow 20:34:40 <frosch123> but that would also only follow some approximation of the track 20:36:04 <V453000> sounds very interesting 20:41:54 <Wolf01> Yep, so you really need to define the real boogies positions 20:42:35 <Wolf01> It would be cool to see how it looks a DDA40x 20:43:34 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 20:44:40 <frosch123> is that one particulary long? 20:45:04 <Wolf01> 30m rigid body 20:45:17 <Wolf01> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMD_DDA40X 20:46:52 *** tokai has joined #openttd 20:46:52 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 20:52:50 *** synchris_ has quit IRC 20:52:56 <supermop> '2nd most powerful locomotive ever' seems like it can't be true 20:53:50 <supermop> maybe 2nd most powerful single unit diesel, but it seems like it would be trivially easy for an AC locomotive to be more powerfull 20:54:13 <Wolf01> The most powerful one seem a multiple unit gas turbine 20:55:01 <Wolf01> "The DDA40X is the most powerful single-unit diesel-electric locomotive ever built" 21:01:15 <supermop> that i believe but the page called it '2nd most powerful locomotive' presumably of any type 21:01:37 <supermop> the gas turbine was 8500 hp, 21:02:00 <supermop> i find it hard to believe there is no electric more powerful than that 21:02:51 <frosch123> tgv as emu has more than 16k hp :p 21:03:06 <frosch123> does that count? 21:04:58 <frosch123> wiki lists a shinkansen with about 25k hp 21:05:17 <frosch123> (18.2MW) 21:06:38 *** Progman has quit IRC 21:07:50 <Eddi|zuHause> it'll be hard to find a (decently sized) electric engine with less than 8k hp 21:08:26 <Eddi|zuHause> where "decent size" is 4 axles, 84t 21:09:05 <frosch123> i think you are 30% off 21:09:28 <supermop> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Railways_HXD1 21:09:35 <supermop> this thing is over 12k 21:09:43 <frosch123> regular single-unit engines are listed at about 4MW, which is about 6k hp 21:10:44 <Eddi|zuHause> well, maybe... it's been like 3 years since i looked at engine stats :p 21:10:47 <supermop> frosch123: i believe that most electrics are weaker than the DDA40X or the GTEL turbines, but find it absurd to state that all electrics are weaker 21:10:53 <LordAro> frosch123: of course, my icu is too new to even compile the split layouters :) 21:11:48 <frosch123> LordAro: what distro do you use? i was surprised that even debian unstable has an old enough icu 21:12:28 <LordAro> arch :) 21:12:42 <frosch123> LordAro: also, it does not compile in general :p 21:12:51 <supermop> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iore - this thing is 7200hp for a single unit, so even if there was nothing else, that makes the dda40x 3rd most powerful at best 21:13:08 <LordAro> frosch123: yeah, but not because of missing includes :p 21:13:11 <LordAro> i have 59.1 21:13:17 <frosch123> i just commited a whatever state to make room for the randombits thingie 21:13:24 * LordAro amends buildsystem 21:38:22 <Samu> I can't use QSortT or GSortT, i fail.. there's always something missing, grrr 22:01:10 *** Biolunar has joined #openttd 22:07:43 <LordAro> frosch123: https://github.com/LordAro/OpenTTD/commits/pango i pushed a couple of things 22:07:50 <LordAro> ...and now it's getting built 22:07:51 <LordAro> lol. 22:10:31 <Samu> i don't know how to sort :( 22:10:41 <LordAro> Samu: what is missing? 22:11:43 <LordAro> (for OTTD, you should nearly always use QSortT, although the invokations are identical regardless) 22:12:04 <Samu> StationList used_stations; 22:12:16 <Samu> so i got this list of stations 22:12:23 <Samu> it got let's say, 6 items 22:12:58 <Samu> now i wanna sort these 6 items by rating 22:13:06 <Samu> but there's also CargoID messing things up 22:13:11 *** orudge` has quit IRC 22:13:31 <LordAro> messing things up how? 22:13:46 <Samu> trying QsortT 22:13:47 *** orudge` has joined #openttd 22:13:47 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge` 22:13:53 <LordAro> specifics, please 22:14:36 <Samu> GSortT(used_stations.Begin(), used_stations.Length(), &StationRatingSorter); 22:14:43 <Samu> this doesn't work 22:15:08 <Samu> StationRatingSorter needs to know the cargo id, and i dunno how to pass that 22:15:08 <LordAro> the error messages, please 22:15:22 <LordAro> right 22:16:37 <LordAro> what is StationRatingSorter ? 22:16:44 <LordAro> its signature, at least 22:17:35 <Samu> no idea 22:17:40 <Samu> i tried static int CDECL StationRatingSorter(const Station * const *a, const Station * const *b) 22:17:57 <Samu> but CargoID isn't there :( 22:18:28 <LordAro> well that seems reasonable 22:18:32 <LordAro> where are you getting CargoID from? 22:19:16 <Samu> from here: uint MoveGoodsToStation(CargoID type, uint amount, SourceType source_type, SourceID source_id, const StationList *all_stations) 22:19:26 <Samu> CargoID type 22:19:55 <LordAro> ok, why do you need CargoID to sort a list of functions? 22:20:08 <LordAro> s/functions/stations/ 22:20:36 <Samu> st1->goods[type].rating - st2->goods[type].rating 22:20:46 <Samu> that type is the CargoID 22:21:13 <ST2> damn, that moment a line of code highlights my nickname <3 22:21:24 *** oskari89 has quit IRC 22:21:29 <LordAro> ST2: o/ 22:21:32 <ST2> o/ 22:22:12 <Samu> i dunno why i'm sorting, i really don't know what i need to do, i thought I had to sort the list by rating 22:22:33 <LordAro> working out what you want to be doing is probably a good start 22:22:40 <LordAro> flailing madly never works out too well 22:23:00 <LordAro> but i'm still not seeing your issue 22:23:00 <Samu> well, i got a list of stations 22:23:16 <LordAro> which function call requires a CargoID, that doesn't already have it? 22:23:46 <Samu> i think i better copy paste my code? 22:24:09 <LordAro> maybe 22:24:28 <Samu> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/p2pn4keww 22:25:00 <Samu> i was like... why use st1, etc... st6, why not make the code find out how many stations are there 22:25:23 <LordAro> arrays do seem like the better choice here 22:26:00 <LordAro> i'm not seeing any QSortT in that 22:26:13 <Samu> it's not there 22:26:49 <LordAro> did you not want it? 22:28:02 <Samu> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pnufelyg1 22:28:12 <Samu> there, doesn't even compile 22:29:29 <LordAro> what is the error message? 22:29:43 <Samu> i tried return stb->goods[0].rating - sta->goods[0].rating; 22:29:57 <Samu> 0 instead of type, just trying to see if i could get it to compile, it doesn't 22:30:09 <LordAro> ERROR MESSAGE. 22:30:20 <Samu> Severity Code Description Project File Line Suppression State Error (active) no instance of function template "GSortT" matches the argument list openttd d:\OpenTTD\trunk\src\station_cmd.cpp 3914 22:30:43 <Samu> line 3914 is GSortT(used_stations.Begin(), used_stations.Length(), &StationRatingSorter); 22:31:20 <LordAro> oh, right 22:31:28 <LordAro> G/QSortT is a templated function 22:31:37 <LordAro> you have to specify the type the sort function is operating on 22:32:45 <Samu> uh, what? 22:33:14 <LordAro> look at some existing examples of G/QSortT usage 22:42:25 <Samu> i don't know what to do 22:42:46 <Gustavo6046> I have an area A pertaining to a grid G, and I need to predict a shape in order to break this area into convex parts. How do I do this? And how will I make these convex afterwards? It's necessary for an efficient pathfinder, you see. 22:48:39 <Samu> Severity Code Description Project File Line Suppression State Error C2672 'QSortT': no matching overloaded function found openttd D:\OpenTTD\trunk\src\station_cmd.cpp 3914 22:49:06 <Samu> Severity Code Description Project File Line Suppression State Error C2782 'void QSortT(T *,uint,int (__cdecl *)(const T *,const T *),bool)': template parameter 'T' is ambiguous openttd D:\OpenTTD\trunk\src\station_cmd.cpp 3914 22:49:20 <LordAro> Samu: you need to provide the template parameter 22:49:33 <Samu> what is that ? 22:50:35 <LordAro> look at other usages 22:50:54 *** Stimrol has quit IRC 22:50:59 <LordAro> or for a more generic answer, google what template parameters are 22:55:35 <Wolf01> 'night 22:55:38 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 22:56:39 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 23:00:19 *** Biolunar has quit IRC 23:06:02 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 23:10:28 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 23:11:14 <Samu> Severity Code Description Project File Line Suppression State Error C2664 'void QSortT<Station>(T *,uint,int (__cdecl *)(const T *,const T *),bool)': cannot convert argument 1 from 'Station **' to 'Station *' openttd D:\OpenTTD\trunk\src\station_cmd.cpp 3914 23:11:36 <Samu> QSortT<Station>(used_stations.Begin(), no_stations, &StationRatingSorter); 23:11:44 <Samu> it still doesn't like it 23:14:30 <Samu> ah, got something, but still... 23:17:25 <Samu> holy crap it compiled... wtf 23:26:53 <Samu> LordAro: what now 23:27:11 <Samu> how do I pass the CargoID? 23:27:42 <Samu> if (no_stations > 1) GSortT<Station>(*used_stations.Begin(), no_stations, StationRatingSorter); 23:30:32 <LordAro> i'm not actually sure you can, in the current format 23:31:41 <LordAro> regardless, maybe try the existing StationRatingMax/MinSorter in station_gui.cpp 23:32:32 <Samu> i looked at that one, it's not the same rating 23:32:37 <Samu> it's another kind of sorting 23:33:28 <LordAro> well maybe, but it might help give you some more ideas 23:33:47 <Samu> that one picks all CargoIDs 23:34:10 <Samu> doesn't need to be specified any CargoID, I actually have to specify the CargoID 23:34:59 <Samu> example, Coal 23:35:13 <Samu> a coal mine produces cargo and wants to put it in the near stations 23:35:56 <Samu> it needs to look at each station and look at the rating for the Coal cargo only 23:36:06 <Samu> not all types of cargo 23:46:03 <Samu> i give up, it's not working 23:46:21 <Samu> crashes on Swap 23:50:12 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 23:56:35 *** Samu has quit IRC