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00:01:36 <Samu> damn, who's a cargodist expert here? i'm confused... sucks when I don't know how things work 00:10:23 <Samu> Attachment: acceptance and suppliance behaviours of waterborne cargo v2 r27929.patch [19.3 KiB] Not downloaded yet 00:10:33 <Samu> *insert very sad face* 00:11:01 <supermop_home> more people might try a binary 00:11:25 <Samu> i can only do windows exes 00:12:59 <Samu> ok, i'll make an .exe if u promise u download it lol 00:21:41 <Samu> are u on windows, supermop_home, i can make a x64.exe, but if you're on linux, ubuntus or crap like that, I can't do anything 00:23:12 <ST2> Samu: Debian or Ubuntu (debian based) are a bit away from Windows - and by that I mean Windows still have to work hard to get there 00:23:47 <ST2> and I say that as a user of the three 00:25:31 <Samu> supermop_home: are u home? 00:25:41 <Samu> :( 00:25:48 <Samu> i gotta go sleep real soon 00:27:19 <supermop_home> I use windows 00:27:37 <supermop_home> I am about to go watch stranger things with my wife tho 00:27:49 <Samu> oki, let me create this bin package thingg 00:27:49 <ST2> supermop_home: which windows? 00:27:55 <supermop_home> if you post a binary I'll give it a shot later 00:28:04 <supermop_home> ST2 10 00:28:08 <ST2> or you got too in the 1709 update doom? 00:28:42 <ST2> W10, which version? 00:29:10 <supermop_home> idk, I don't have that latest fall update yet though 00:29:29 <ST2> ALT+R -->> winver 00:30:04 <ST2> not ALT 00:30:10 <supermop_home> ok where to take all these building materials 00:30:15 <ST2> <window>+R 00:31:05 <ST2> gives something like this: https://www.dropbox.com/s/x33o4ewpft3xlc3/Screenshot%202017-10-29%2001.30.54.png?dl=0 00:33:52 <ST2> but I guess Samu didn't get the update too 00:34:05 <ST2> or he would be complaining about it also xD 00:36:49 <ST2> note: the previous screenshot it's from this laptop; my home computer has same W10 update 00:37:04 <ST2> lucky me, my work computer is W7 \o/ 00:37:53 <Samu> mine is 1703 00:38:10 <ST2> so, no panning issues 00:38:14 <Samu> got the bin ready, uploading it to forum, brb 00:39:23 <ST2> actually I forced the updates on my W10 machines - after I saw the panning issue complaints 00:39:42 <ST2> as you know, I want to have happy players ^^ 00:39:56 <Samu> there https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=77199&p=1193521#p1193521 00:41:21 <Samu> it's an entire folder with subfolders, there are added strings, so they need to work together 00:42:00 <ST2> Samu: what's the goal with those changes? 00:42:02 *** Guest7683 is now known as Prof_Frink 00:42:36 <Samu> the goal is to ruin players who transport oil from oil rigs with trains 00:42:37 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7687 00:43:04 <Samu> and have it included in 1.8.0 or so I hope 00:43:07 <Samu> lel 00:43:12 <ST2> Samu: and why you would want that? 00:43:52 <Samu> because devs didn't do anything about it 00:43:56 <ST2> as you said, you played on BTPro K1 server 00:44:15 <ST2> had you seen any player taking oil from rigs with trains? 00:44:20 <Samu> yeah, your implementation is fugly 00:44:35 <ST2> I know 00:44:59 <ST2> but, due the code limitations to keep it compatible... what was possible 00:45:26 <Samu> I know what you mean, make it network compatible with 1.7.1 00:45:40 <Samu> must have been a tough task 00:46:00 <ST2> well, what we changed... it's compatible 00:46:16 <ST2> guess you joined using a 1.7.1 client 00:46:30 <Samu> yes, of course 00:47:05 <ST2> it's only a function that checks distances between stations and industries 00:47:24 *** Samu has quit IRC 00:47:37 <ST2> made it as a setting, to work among all our servers and spreading allowed 00:48:09 *** Samu has joined #openttd 00:48:16 <Samu> oops, closed window 00:48:23 <ST2> it's only a function that checks distances between stations and industries 00:48:46 <ST2> ofc, the code that it uses, depends of more functions for it 00:49:40 <ST2> it's similar functions used for town protection (like in CB's) 00:50:12 <ST2> but that's server specific's 00:50:59 <ST2> I see no point on ruin people getting oil from rigs with trains - unless you come with an awesome idea and code 00:51:10 <Samu> it's a setting 00:51:24 <Samu> 4 settings actually 00:51:34 <Samu> there's some degree of customizability now 00:52:10 <Samu> each behaviour can be enabled or disabled, on the fly 00:54:30 <Samu> "accept non-industry cargo at industry station", "accept industry cargo at non-industry station", "supply non-industry cargo at industry station" and "supply industry cargo at non-industry station". 00:55:25 <Samu> i'm off to bed 00:55:31 <Samu> take care, all 00:56:01 *** Samu has quit IRC 01:00:58 *** gelignite_ has joined #openttd 01:08:07 *** gelignite has quit IRC 01:14:57 *** gelignite_ has quit IRC 01:43:03 *** Guest7687 is now known as Prof_Frink 01:43:36 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7691 02:03:48 *** chomwitt has quit IRC 02:44:03 *** Guest7691 is now known as Prof_Frink 02:44:37 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7693 02:57:41 *** glx has quit IRC 03:07:29 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 03:45:03 *** Guest7693 is now known as Prof_Frink 03:45:36 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7697 04:01:28 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 04:26:09 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd 04:46:04 *** Guest7697 is now known as Prof_Frink 04:46:36 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7699 05:00:00 *** Arveen has joined #openttd 05:05:01 *** Arveen2 has quit IRC 05:24:57 *** Alberth has joined #openttd 05:24:57 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth 05:33:40 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 05:39:02 *** Smedles has quit IRC 05:43:54 *** Smedles has joined #openttd 05:47:04 *** Guest7699 is now known as Prof_Frink 05:47:36 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7703 05:56:12 *** Gustavo6046_ has joined #openttd 05:57:04 *** Gustavo6046_ has quit IRC 06:00:38 *** murr4y has quit IRC 06:02:48 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 06:08:21 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 06:48:04 *** Guest7703 is now known as Prof_Frink 06:48:36 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7708 06:53:07 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 06:53:10 <andythenorth> o/ 06:55:51 *** tokai has joined #openttd 06:55:52 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 07:00:04 *** mindlesstux has quit IRC 07:00:57 *** mindlesstux has joined #openttd 07:03:01 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 07:05:54 <andythenorth> Alberth: you post to forums very early? o_O 07:11:19 <Alberth> clock shifted :p 07:11:51 <Alberth> but in general, yep, get up at around 6 07:12:38 <V453000> kids give no fucks about clock :P 07:13:01 <Alberth> me neither, but the world around me does 07:14:32 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 07:16:26 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 07:29:55 *** mindlesstux has quit IRC 07:30:30 *** mindlesstux has joined #openttd 07:31:28 *** Progman has joined #openttd 07:34:07 *** mindlesstux has quit IRC 07:34:42 *** mindlesstux has joined #openttd 07:42:09 * andythenorth was awake at 4am 07:42:13 <andythenorth> or was it 5am? 07:42:16 * andythenorth unsure 07:45:35 <Alberth> it's not that important :) 07:47:14 <andythenorth> it felt important at the time :x 07:47:31 <andythenorth> so is it Steeltown, or Motor City? 07:47:37 * andythenorth might have made a mis-step 07:49:05 *** Guest7708 is now known as Prof_Frink 07:49:34 <andythenorth> maybe vehicles aren't the ultimate end cargo 07:49:36 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7712 08:13:56 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest7714 08:13:56 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 08:18:12 *** Guest7714 has quit IRC 08:31:07 <Alberth> interesting idea :) 08:31:09 <Alberth> bbl 08:31:22 *** Alberth has left #openttd 08:39:19 *** synchris has joined #openttd 08:46:53 *** murr4y has joined #openttd 08:48:26 *** Breckett has joined #openttd 08:50:05 *** Guest7712 is now known as Prof_Frink 08:50:36 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7717 08:56:52 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 09:24:52 <andythenorth> @summon frosch123 09:24:52 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: out of chalk 09:32:17 *** Breckett has quit IRC 09:51:05 *** Guest7717 is now known as Prof_Frink 09:51:36 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7724 09:52:11 *** Breckett has joined #openttd 09:53:53 *** Breckett has quit IRC 09:59:47 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 10:00:14 <Wolf01> Moin 10:14:27 <andythenorth> lo Wolf01 10:15:06 <Wolf01> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I91z_rs3JWo did you even considered this for your children? 10:17:16 <andythenorth> that is big eh 10:17:53 <andythenorth> how much does that printing cost? :o 10:18:15 <Wolf01> I think "a lot" could be a good answer 10:20:33 <Wolf01> Also I think I have the 850 somewhere 10:40:33 *** Stimrol has joined #openttd 10:45:59 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 10:49:22 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 10:52:06 *** Guest7724 is now known as Prof_Frink 10:52:46 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7726 10:53:27 *** Samu has joined #openttd 10:57:11 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 11:08:51 <Wolf01> Quak 11:11:35 <Samu> hi 11:24:57 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 11:25:09 <frosch123> moo 11:25:13 <andythenorth> well 11:25:51 <andythenorth> is it steeltown or motor town? 11:26:04 <andythenorth> to put it another way, 50% of the detailed RL steel chain is present 11:26:15 <andythenorth> and 50% is missing, in favour of tyres and windscreens 11:26:55 <frosch123> add ships and tools 11:27:03 <frosch123> possibly a bit of wood 11:27:19 <andythenorth> I am experimenting with kicking vehicles chain out 11:27:29 <andythenorth> chemicals + cars economy 11:28:39 <andythenorth> https://image.slidesharecdn.com/oprnmgtinsteelplant-140704103953-phpapp01/95/operational-management-in-steel-plant-35-638.jpg?cb=1404470505 11:28:53 <andythenorth> Steeltown currently stops in the middle of the chart at 'steel' 11:28:58 <andythenorth> then it becomes BMW and Ford 11:31:43 <andythenorth> stripped it down http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/economies.html#steeltown 11:32:06 <andythenorth> need to decide what final output cargos are interesting 11:32:14 <andythenorth> then work back to steel 11:37:37 <frosch123> vehicles are an interesting cargo 11:37:51 <andythenorth> cars + chemicals 11:37:57 <frosch123> judging from the current state you should probably delete cement and builders yard 11:38:11 <andythenorth> it makes an ugly line on the graph eh 11:38:26 <frosch123> that's not the reasoning :) 11:38:31 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 11:38:38 <frosch123> but cement adds nothing, it only goes to black holes 11:38:46 <andythenorth> goes to bulk terminal 11:40:16 <frosch123> i think readding glass and also adding wood might work 11:40:30 <frosch123> you can make a lot of things from steel+glass+wood 11:41:02 <frosch123> cars, ships, houses 11:41:33 <frosch123> so, building materials may be a thing 11:43:17 <frosch123> other games have stuff like motors 11:43:24 <frosch123> but they are essentially made of steel only 11:43:33 <frosch123> so does not really add anything 11:44:01 <V453000> electric engines with electronic circuits, yo 11:45:24 <andythenorth> motors would be copper + steel 11:45:37 <andythenorth> might work out what goes in a chemicals + cars economy 11:45:49 <andythenorth> very few raw materials, mostly secondary 11:45:50 <frosch123> ok, maybe go for electric cars then :) 11:45:58 <frosch123> also allows battery cargo 11:46:01 <andythenorth> this is the core part of Steeltown :) https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8738/Steeltown.png 11:46:13 <frosch123> battery from various fancy minerals 11:46:33 <andythenorth> the goal is to get those industries co-located, then cram in lots of trains 11:46:41 <andythenorth> then raise production to make it really hard 11:47:28 <andythenorth> maybe a couple more clusters like that 11:47:58 <andythenorth> it's really not a town-focussed economy :P 11:53:06 *** Guest7726 is now known as Prof_Frink 11:53:46 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7728 11:54:23 <andythenorth> Tin 11:54:28 <andythenorth> tinplate works 11:54:36 <andythenorth> also maybe electrical machines 11:54:49 <andythenorth> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tinplate 12:12:14 *** Gja has joined #openttd 12:20:04 *** ToBeFree has joined #openttd 12:20:09 *** Flygon has quit IRC 12:21:44 *** ToBeFree has quit IRC 12:28:18 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 12:46:02 *** Alberth has joined #openttd 12:46:02 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth 12:46:10 <Wolf01> o/ 12:46:14 <Alberth> o/ 12:49:25 <andythenorth> frosch123: shipyard...steeltown, or chemicals + cars? 12:49:26 <andythenorth> o_O 12:49:36 * andythenorth likes the idea that it might look good 12:51:27 <frosch123> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_industry 12:51:53 <frosch123> surface mining and bucket excavators? 12:52:59 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 12:53:25 <frosch123> problem is that all the fancy products like ships and windturbines translate into black holes in ottd 12:54:06 *** Guest7728 is now known as Prof_Frink 12:54:46 <frosch123> http://www.investopedia.com/terms/h/heavy_industry.asp <- lists 5 things 12:54:46 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7733 12:54:59 <frosch123> 1 to 4 might work 13:09:23 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 13:10:41 <andythenorth> black holes aren't wrong 13:25:05 <frosch123> so, also adding big-ass refineries? 13:25:14 <frosch123> oil rig construction yards? 13:25:19 <andythenorth> worth exploring 13:25:30 <andythenorth> I think it's a different economy 13:25:39 *** sim-al2 is now known as Guest7734 13:25:42 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 13:26:01 <andythenorth> offshore construction yards? 13:26:07 <andythenorth> wind turbines 13:26:10 <andythenorth> oil rigs 13:27:07 <andythenorth> http://www.brightonandhovenews.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/1-First-wind-turbine-3rd-blade-attached-11.03.07.jpg 13:28:19 *** Guest7734 has quit IRC 13:28:26 <andythenorth> https://corporate.vattenfall.co.uk/globalassets/uk/projects/aberdeen-bay/2c_smulders_site.jpg 13:28:54 <frosch123> ship with feet 13:30:07 <andythenorth> what can I deliver oil rigs to? 13:30:44 <andythenorth> what cargo class would that be? 13:30:59 <frosch123> off-shore construction hubs 13:31:09 <frosch123> oversized class 13:33:02 <frosch123> anyway, your :27 picture could be an industry 13:33:17 <frosch123> simliar looks as oirlgi 13:33:22 <frosch123> but builds wind turbines 13:33:37 <frosch123> for gameplay purpose it does not move though 13:37:30 <andythenorth> deliver wind turbines to it :P 13:37:40 <andythenorth> sometimes I wonder about splitting ENSP 13:37:48 <andythenorth> e.g. special supplies for oil industry 13:37:59 <andythenorth> pipe, frac sand 13:38:13 <frosch123> might make sense in this economy 13:38:57 <andythenorth> not sure how it would work 13:39:21 <frosch123> i wouldn't add a "wind turbine cargo" 13:39:56 <frosch123> rather deliver "pipe" and "electric machinery" to an off-shore windmill construction yard 13:41:31 <andythenorth> http://www.technip.com/en/our-business/fleet-facilities/construction-yard# 13:41:43 *** oskari89 has joined #openttd 13:42:11 <andythenorth> rig supplies? 13:42:30 <frosch123> add in the other cargos and industries first :p 13:42:40 <frosch123> "supplies" may be a good export cargo 13:42:41 * andythenorth plans cars + chemicals 13:43:12 <andythenorth> only way I've found to make supples exportable is to minimse need of it for mines etc 13:48:04 <frosch123> hmm, maybe to f-infected. but does it need a "lubricant" cargo? 13:48:08 <frosch123> or just oil? 13:48:15 <frosch123> steel+oil->machinery 13:48:22 <frosch123> machinery+copper -> electric machinery 13:48:26 <frosch123> (too much f) 13:50:12 <Alberth> quite :) 13:50:15 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 13:50:25 <Alberth> usually it's machinery + electric motor :) 13:51:18 <frosch123> so, steel+copper+oil -> electric machinery? 13:52:09 <frosch123> copper+paper+oil -> transformators? 13:52:25 <Alberth> sounds more realistic :) 13:52:26 <frosch123> i guess "crude oil" does not quite cut it 13:52:35 <frosch123> so rafinery needs to produce more 13:52:50 <frosch123> not just fuel, but fine oil or something 13:53:20 <Alberth> oil is sort-of collection name 13:54:14 <Alberth> likely the industry itself always makes explicit what oil is intended 13:55:07 *** Guest7733 is now known as Prof_Frink 13:55:23 <frosch123> yeah, but you cannot ship directly from oil rig to machine shop :) 13:55:36 <frosch123> you need at least a refinery or other chemical plant 13:55:38 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7737 13:56:43 <frosch123> but well, one could as well argue about plastics in machinery 13:57:11 <frosch123> but plastics is less fun than fine oil 13:57:45 <frosch123> plastics is too yoghurt-cuppish 13:57:54 <frosch123> not heavy-industrish 13:58:03 <Alberth> indeed :) 13:58:39 <frosch123> andythenorth: don't add yoghurt 13:59:22 <Alberth> plastic could work if you build an industry set to produce our household items 14:02:52 <supermop_home> yogurt town 14:09:21 <Alberth> that would be silicon valley, or rather, yoghurt valley 14:13:10 <andythenorth> yoghurt is for the dairy economy 14:13:21 <andythenorth> cheese, yoghurt, butter, milk, cream 14:13:51 <frosch123> pudding 14:14:20 <andythenorth> custard 14:16:05 <andythenorth> can't find a custard tanker 14:18:07 <frosch123> that's a good thing, otherwise i would worry about the exitence of mustard tankers 14:27:44 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 14:33:21 <andythenorth> like this? http://www.dailypioneer.com/state-editions/bhopal/7-illegal-tankers-with-mustard-oil-seized.html 14:36:36 * andythenorth biab 14:36:39 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 14:52:39 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd 14:56:07 *** Guest7737 is now known as Prof_Frink 14:56:38 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7742 15:10:09 <Samu> who's a cargodist expert? 15:13:07 <Samu> Alberth: can u review my patch, https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=77199 15:14:29 <Samu> i need some cargoflow, cargodist expert 15:15:49 <Samu> to test that patch 15:16:10 <Samu> i still get myself confused about how cargodist works 15:18:20 <Alberth> changing exclusive rights seems weird 15:19:00 <Samu> why's that 15:20:04 <Alberth> I don't know the purpose of the patch, but if an oil rig is under town influence, it should obey restrictions of the town, wouldn't it? 15:21:09 <Samu> if a company buys exclusive transport rights, only this company gets cargo on their stations 15:21:20 <Alberth> also, doesn't your system break with "distant join stations" ? 15:21:24 <Samu> but oil rigs are OWNER_NONE 15:21:53 <Samu> if i get ships in there, and i got exclusive transport rights, i can't even get oil from it 15:21:58 <Samu> i thought it as a bug 15:22:52 <Samu> distatnt join stations is station spreading, right? 15:23:26 <Alberth> hmm, that may be why original game had big restrictions on distance of oil rigs, to avoid owner problems 15:23:57 <Alberth> I build lands just next to the oilrig, and a station, that I connect with the oilrig station 15:24:01 <Alberth> *land 15:25:12 <Samu> it should make no difference on distant join stations, because it's the industry that looks for which stations to supply oil 15:25:59 <Samu> if it detects an attached station, it will not supply oil on the other 15:27:12 <Samu> if you mean 2 oil sources, one from oil field, other from oil wells, the oil field will search which stations to supply oil, separately from the oil wells 15:27:47 <Samu> or do you mean something else? 15:33:46 *** Cubey has joined #openttd 15:36:55 <Samu> you can't join your station with an oil rig station, i just tried, it only lets you create a new station 15:38:16 <Alberth> so that's blocked already 15:38:19 *** Maraxus has joined #openttd 15:40:22 <Samu> do you mean spreading all the way into land, and then demolishing the parts in-between? 15:40:34 <Samu> station spreading? 15:44:01 <Samu> can you post a screenshot of what u mean? 15:47:26 <Alberth> distant join is when you build a station near another station (but not in contact with it), while holding CTRL. Then you get to select which already existing station it is. 15:47:51 <Alberth> that works for normal land stations, no idea if it works for oil rigs 15:48:05 <Alberth> maybe there is a special case for them 15:48:49 <Samu> they can't be distant joined 15:49:15 <Alberth> hmm, not the same owner, I guess 15:49:29 <Samu> their owner is OWNER_NONE 15:51:08 <Samu> but you can distant join your own stations 15:52:12 <Samu> build one where catchment area picks the oil rig, then distant join it with another 15:52:44 *** Maraxus has quit IRC 15:53:14 <Alberth> oh, too complicated, I just build land right next to the oil rig if I bother getting oil from them 15:53:48 <Samu> https://imgur.com/6rfjzDr 15:53:56 <Samu> it's working as I intended 15:54:03 <Samu> no oil for train 15:54:57 <Samu> https://imgur.com/a/IdKj5 15:55:12 <Samu> enabled vs disabled behaviour 15:57:07 *** Guest7742 is now known as Prof_Frink 15:57:38 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7747 16:12:39 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 16:14:59 <V453000> andythenorth: funny story 16:15:06 <V453000> I had a cool 3D model in blender 16:15:08 <V453000> rendered it 16:15:17 <V453000> realized how retarded and wrong it is to model in realistic scales for openttd 16:15:20 <V453000> even if it's 24/8 16:15:27 <V453000> gg, redo 16:16:47 <V453000> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8739/not-so-big-boy.png 16:19:32 <V453000> serious chibification incoming 16:24:34 <frosch123> length may be fine, but it's not tall and wide enough 16:26:30 <Wolf01> Also that's a Challenger, not a Big Boy :P 16:27:14 <andythenorth> pixels 16:27:32 <Wolf01> It misses many pixel then 16:27:41 <Wolf01> Like 4 wheels 16:28:10 <V453000> exactly frosch 16:28:23 <V453000> but this is the "realistic" proportion of width and height 16:28:26 <V453000> so need to chibbialize 16:28:36 <V453000> yes Wolf01, that already got chibbialized 16:28:48 <V453000> wheel cut off :) it's not meant to be a perfect representation of big boy 16:29:22 <andythenorth> V453000: do this one http://sbiii.com/bwrkapix/9999road.jpg 16:30:41 <andythenorth> http://sbiii.com/bw-gapix/hugeboyt.jpg 16:31:37 <Wolf01> A triplex.. wait, sbiii mean something fictional 16:31:54 <Wolf01> That site has too many things 16:36:37 <V453000> that's basically the same 16:37:15 <Wolf01> Why the fuck is the swiss classification so difficult to understand? 16:38:20 <Wolf01> Ok, I think I got it 16:41:40 <Wolf01> http://www.douglas-self.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/quadruplex/quadpatent.gif :D 16:47:50 <V453000> nice 16:47:57 <V453000> 48/8 16:48:13 <Wolf01> Also the Garrett is nice 16:48:25 <Wolf01> http://www.douglas-self.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/quadruplex/dg2b.jpg 16:58:08 *** Guest7747 is now known as Prof_Frink 16:58:48 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7755 17:01:57 *** Gja has quit IRC 17:24:58 <frosch123> i still have andy's windmill construction ship opened 17:25:15 <frosch123> never thought they actually ground the ship like a crane 17:25:44 <Gustavo6046> https://64ff3c18.ngrok.io/cheapwayjs/index.html 17:25:52 <Gustavo6046> mouse wheel -> adjust cost 17:26:09 <Gustavo6046> draw mode: Obstacles adds obstacles, Weight Copy copies weight between tiles 17:27:07 <supermop_home> andythenorth do you have feedback on verbose names? frosch123gave me some suggestions too 17:30:33 <andythenorth> supermop_home: what feedback do you need? 17:30:57 *** Gja has joined #openttd 17:36:53 <andythenorth> what to call a chemicals + cars economy? 17:37:17 <andythenorth> kind of like ruhr valley or teeside UK 17:37:36 <frosch123> heavy industry 17:37:42 <frosch123> or "heavy metal" to make it more fancy 17:38:21 <andythenorth> hmm, where is ruhr valley? 17:38:25 <andythenorth> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_German_Chemical_Triangle 17:38:51 <frosch123> it's at the border to france 17:38:55 <frosch123> if you really wanted to know 17:39:06 <frosch123> it's where all the big close cities are 17:39:24 <frosch123> anyway, maybe you can also find a fancy industialisation-related name 17:39:26 <andythenorth> so where's the chemical industry? 17:39:33 <andythenorth> seemed to be a lot around Berlin when I went 17:39:54 <frosch123> like "marx town" 17:41:48 <frosch123> andythenorth: bayer 17:43:01 <frosch123> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayer <- hq is in leverkusen, which is in ruhr area 17:43:32 <andythenorth> I could call it 'heroin' 17:43:38 <andythenorth> to go with the other dodgy names 17:44:12 <frosch123> the middle-german-chemical-triangle is nowhere related to ruhr area though 17:44:40 <andythenorth> UK steel regions are not same as chemical / car regions 17:45:22 <frosch123> cars are not close to steel in uk? 17:45:34 <andythenorth> no 17:45:40 <frosch123> well, i guess not all here either 17:45:40 <andythenorth> although UK distances are short 17:45:41 <frosch123> but some 17:46:26 <frosch123> vw was specifically choosen near steel mills 17:47:31 * andythenorth tries SALTWORKS 17:47:39 <andythenorth> it might be there are two economies 17:47:40 <andythenorth> or one 17:53:14 <frosch123> call it proletarism 17:53:25 <frosch123> or "labor" 17:54:16 <andythenorth> working_man 17:54:20 <andythenorth> prole 17:54:23 <andythenorth> fordism 17:54:29 <andythenorth> unwashed 17:54:34 <andythenorth> american_dream 17:54:45 <andythenorth> white_heat_of_technology 17:55:10 <frosch123> hmm, i imagine the economy more like 1880 17:55:15 <frosch123> call it 1880? 17:55:17 <andythenorth> https://www.theguardian.com/science/political-science/2013/sep/19/harold-wilson-white-heat-technology-speech 17:55:43 <frosch123> how about "victoria" :p 17:56:11 <andythenorth> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runcorn#Economy 17:56:17 <andythenorth> I've called it BRINE for now 17:56:29 <andythenorth> salt is a little known source of some huge fraction of world's chemicals 17:57:40 <Samu> what was the newgrf which was limited industry production capacity? 17:57:44 <Samu> limiting* 17:57:52 <Samu> ST2: 17:58:01 <Samu> BusyBee? 17:58:30 <ST2> BB is a GS 17:58:45 <ST2> I think ECS limits production 17:58:47 <ST2> not sure 17:59:08 <andythenorth> PBI or ECS 17:59:08 *** Guest7755 is now known as Prof_Frink 17:59:21 <Samu> ECS, ok, let me take a look 17:59:48 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7757 17:59:57 <Samu> cus there are some code i don't quite understand, regarding industry acceptance cargo 18:00:06 <Samu> or production 18:01:13 <Samu> woah, there's so many ECS grfs, which one is it 18:04:09 *** debdog has quit IRC 18:07:43 <Samu> nah, can't be ecs 18:08:01 *** debdog has joined #openttd 18:08:24 <Samu> i remember i was playing one of your servers and an industry suddenly stopped accepting grain/livestock 18:08:32 <Samu> it was over capacity 18:08:43 <Samu> what was it 18:08:47 <ST2> sec 18:09:27 <ST2> Experts hard - industries - http://bananas.openttd.org/en/newgrf/ 18:09:41 <ST2> note: only works on temperate climate 18:09:41 *** Smedles has quit IRC 18:09:53 *** Smedles has joined #openttd 18:11:10 <Samu> thx, that was it. let me explore this thing 18:13:02 <andythenorth> well 18:13:03 <andythenorth> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethylene 18:13:14 <andythenorth> chemicals is a rabbit hole :D 18:16:03 *** Alberth has left #openttd 18:17:22 <supermop_home> all these short turns at stations look weird with steam engines 18:17:33 <supermop_home> i guess I need to add head shunts 18:41:09 <supermop_home> andythenorth now you have me reading about production of pvc 18:41:18 <andythenorth> isn't it 18:43:05 <andythenorth> ethylene 18:43:07 <andythenorth> chlorine 18:43:13 <andythenorth> caustic soda 18:43:15 <andythenorth> styrene 18:43:27 <supermop_home> but 18:43:32 <andythenorth> (styrene in pellets) 18:43:45 <supermop_home> wouldn't it all just be tanks and covered hoppers? 18:43:54 <andythenorth> yes BUT DIFFERENT COLOURS :) 18:43:56 <andythenorth> but yes 18:44:00 <andythenorth> that's a limiting factor 18:44:10 <andythenorth> trying to work out if this is legit or not 18:44:27 <andythenorth> or do I just rename steeltown, and add in more chemicals 18:44:40 <andythenorth> the steeltown economy graph was really really horrible :P 18:45:18 <supermop_home> steeltown has a 'feel' 18:45:23 <supermop_home> rust belty 18:45:38 *** ToffeeYogurtPots has joined #openttd 18:45:48 <supermop_home> I feel like thats some people can readily emotionally associate with 18:45:55 <supermop_home> espescially wrt trains 18:45:59 <andythenorth> isn't it 18:46:05 <andythenorth> also this cluster http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8740/Steeltown.png 18:46:43 <supermop_home> chemical town or whatever might have a feel for some, but its different than the Sheffield or Bethlehem one 18:46:59 <andythenorth> ok 18:47:06 <andythenorth> these are legit comments 18:47:12 <supermop_home> poor plastics plant getting no love there 18:47:28 <andythenorth> lacks chlorine :P 18:47:31 <supermop_home> i mean, you have to think about how 'train-y' something feels 18:47:57 <supermop_home> to americans and brits, maybe japanese of certain area, train means steel 18:48:25 <supermop_home> rolls and rolls, coal, ore, billowing smoke 18:48:46 <supermop_home> big rust colored monsters of plants looming over towns 18:49:31 <supermop_home> chemical town is more like grey boxy buildings with miles and miles of silver pipes everywhere 18:49:36 <andythenorth> yes 18:49:49 <andythenorth> now that I try sketching it out I find I need 4 chemical plants :P 18:49:50 <supermop_home> feels like europe, post war 18:49:52 <andythenorth> all will look about same 18:50:02 <supermop_home> steel town feels very pre-war 18:50:38 <andythenorth> is it steeltown, or just bonkers heavy industry? 18:50:52 <supermop_home> one and the same 18:50:56 <andythenorth> also it has a supplies problem :P 18:51:16 <supermop_home> but needs that beautiful hulking bleakness (ST does) 18:51:41 <andythenorth> supplies can't be both the pinnacle cago and in high-demand as an input 18:51:44 <andythenorth> cargo * 18:51:50 <supermop_home> FIRS art already does a good job of both, but its incongruous to see them together 18:52:09 <supermop_home> eg fertilizer plant 18:52:22 <supermop_home> next to blast furnace 18:52:48 <supermop_home> one looks clean and modern, the other looks like something from the dark ages 18:53:15 <supermop_home> I guess you could drawn modern steel mills and old looking chemical plants 18:54:08 <supermop_home> but I like the idea of styles/climates - rust climate, pipes climate, farm climate 18:55:33 <andythenorth> is steeltown rust belt? 18:55:44 <supermop_home> pre-rusting 18:56:20 <andythenorth> hmm 18:57:04 <andythenorth> chemicals economy seriously unconvincing 18:57:08 <andythenorth> but 18:57:19 <andythenorth> Steeltown doesn't work, the cargo graph is ugly 18:58:01 <supermop_home> I still think there is value in the goal being cars -> towns 18:58:12 <andythenorth> I agree 18:58:32 <supermop_home> currently I am playing an extreme game 18:58:42 <frosch123> i still like adding electrical motors and transformers as visual cargo 18:58:49 <supermop_home> and have yet to take a single supply anywhere 18:58:51 <frosch123> not sure where to deliver them to though :) 18:59:00 <supermop_home> frosch123: power plant! 18:59:52 <andythenorth> ports 19:00:08 *** Guest7757 is now known as Prof_Frink 19:00:12 <supermop_home> power plants start as non functional and have to deliver the part to them 19:00:13 <andythenorth> https://www.1999.co.jp/itbig20/10204383a.jpg 19:00:40 <supermop_home> after which they will work for a few decades before they need more 19:00:41 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7761 19:01:02 <frosch123> if you send them to ports, it's just energy equipment 19:01:12 <andythenorth> rocket boosters? o_O http://www.grahamstrains.com/store/image.php?type=D&id=11427 19:01:13 <frosch123> "heavy goods"? 19:01:17 <supermop_home> cities should need them 19:01:23 <frosch123> heavy goods go to port, not to towen 19:01:25 <supermop_home> for substations and large buildings 19:01:26 <frosch123> *town 19:01:34 <andythenorth> space launch site 19:01:37 <supermop_home> 'industrial machinery' 19:02:07 <frosch123> that's too close to ensp 19:02:20 <supermop_home> sell them to ports to build new industries in far off lands? 19:02:23 <andythenorth> I can probably get salt out of the soda ash mine 19:02:32 <andythenorth> salt -> bulk terminal, chemicals plant 19:02:39 <andythenorth> -> plastics 19:02:43 <andythenorth> ditch chemicals 19:02:45 <supermop_home> andythenorth don't they just dissolve and pump it out now 19:02:54 <supermop_home> same as potash? 19:02:55 <andythenorth> find a way to ditch the liquids terminal 19:03:09 <andythenorth> maybe give up Pipe as a cargo :( 19:03:24 <supermop_home> oh potash is a salt 19:03:26 <supermop_home> duh 19:03:55 <frosch123> andythenorth: remove plastics 19:04:00 <frosch123> plastics are yoghurt 19:04:23 <andythenorth> need em for vehicles :) 19:04:29 <andythenorth> if the vehicles chain goes back in 19:04:40 <frosch123> vehicles which use plastic do not use steel 19:04:41 <andythenorth> plastics was a boring cargo in PBCI though 19:04:48 <andythenorth> PBI * 19:05:00 <frosch123> imho go for pre 1910 economy 19:05:06 <andythenorth> hmm 19:05:06 <frosch123> vehicles are made from wood and steel 19:05:23 <frosch123> rubber is the only thing remotely close to chemicals 19:05:53 <frosch123> however, in 1900 you already have all the fancy heavy machinery 19:05:57 <andythenorth> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fleischmann-5297-01-K-DB-Low-loader-with-transformer-HO-scale/112621996490?hash=item1a38cb49ca:g:XywAAOSwLJ9Z7OIQ 19:08:19 <frosch123> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geschichte_des_elektrischen_Antriebs_von_Schienenfahrzeugen#/media/File:PRR_DD1_running_gear.jpg <- which horse roster has those? 19:09:07 <andythenorth> hmm 19:09:12 <andythenorth> remarkably this is not my van https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5701343,-2.9900628,3a,75y,312.86h,73.01t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sk3_lJ5ti4eBAAXW5OIZE3w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 19:09:23 <andythenorth> although I was right just there today in a blue Transit 19:09:24 <supermop_home> old industry 'ashery'? 19:10:27 <andythenorth> anyway, just here is a big steel industry around the port https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.570302,-2.9894468,3a,75y,96.8h,93.48t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sCErKTpTSyW9Q6H_5TbwUnQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 19:10:30 <andythenorth> and a timber yard 19:10:40 <frosch123> what is that bridge for? 19:10:44 <andythenorth> transporter bridge 19:10:57 <andythenorth> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newport_Transporter_Bridge 19:11:18 <supermop_home> need an early industry to cut down all the trees 19:11:55 <andythenorth> there are no blast furnaces there, but all the tertiary industries 19:12:12 <andythenorth> metal export, tinplate, scrap metal, etc 19:12:21 <andythenorth> also machinery, timber 19:12:28 <andythenorth> and my original Apple iMac was made there :P 19:13:26 <andythenorth> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newport,_Wales#Economy 19:14:07 <Eddi|zuHause> technically, "tertiary" doesn't mean "the third in the chain", but things that don't really "produce" anything, like services, consumer sales, programming, ... 19:14:32 <andythenorth> I know, I just abuse it :| 19:14:59 <andythenorth> in the sense of 'tertiary education' 19:15:08 <andythenorth> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ravenscraig_steelworks 'Steelopolis' 19:15:39 <Eddi|zuHause> there's a "Ferropolis" near here 19:15:53 <andythenorth> what if the Iron Ore was imported, not mined? o_O 19:16:05 <andythenorth> reducing the demand for ENSP would be interesting 19:16:40 <andythenorth> frosch123: 1910 would allow removal of the scrap -> electric arc furnace -> steel chain :P 19:17:01 <V453000> :D I put the locomotive on a screenshot and left it 2 times smaller accidentally 19:17:03 <V453000> it works fine :D 19:17:06 <V453000> 48/8 confirmed 19:17:11 <Eddi|zuHause> it doesn't actually have anything to do with iron, but it's a disused open coal mine, and the huge excavators are preserved there and they make festivals in the location 19:17:28 <andythenorth> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferropolis#/media/File:Ferropolis_Mainstage_360deg_airpano.jpg 19:18:39 <Eddi|zuHause> 360° images look weirdly distorted 19:18:57 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 19:20:56 <Eddi|zuHause> just think about how world maps are actually similarly distorted, just you don't notice it because you're not used to how it actually looks 19:22:51 <Eddi|zuHause> PS: the lake is where the actual mining used to take place 19:23:07 <Eddi|zuHause> (it wasn't a lake back then) 19:25:52 * andythenorth tries to fix Steeltown then 19:25:59 <andythenorth> no chemicals economy 19:26:51 <andythenorth> cement / building materials /s 19:27:44 <V453000> /tension intensifies as realistic scale is going down the shitter 19:27:49 <V453000> unexpected turn of events eh 19:28:37 <andythenorth> word goes out in whispered tones: V453000 has shunned realism 19:29:36 <andythenorth> frosch123: the trick with ENSP and FMSP in the charts, is it valid for BDMT? o_O 19:30:54 <V453000> amen 19:37:36 <frosch123> andythenorth: originally the arrows for supplies were excluded because they went everywhere 19:37:42 <frosch123> not necessarily because they did circles 19:38:29 <frosch123> andythenorth: http://www.graphviz.org/doc/info/attrs.html#d:constraint 19:38:43 <andythenorth> treating building materials and packaging like supplies cleans up multiple charts 19:38:51 <andythenorth> but leaves Builders Yard with no arrows :P 19:39:10 <frosch123> keep the arrows, but add the no-constraint 19:39:14 <frosch123> no arrows is useless 19:40:24 * andythenorth delves into graphviz then 19:47:05 <andythenorth> so where are the edges? :P 19:48:55 <frosch123> they are the lines with -> 19:49:42 <andythenorth> ha 19:49:47 <andythenorth> don't remove all constraints :) 19:54:51 <andythenorth> what does constraint do? 19:55:04 <andythenorth> seems to force industries further right when true 19:55:09 *** glx has joined #openttd 19:55:10 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 19:55:26 <andythenorth> like an x axis forced hierarchy 19:56:57 <frosch123> "->" orders stuff from left to right 19:57:11 <frosch123> removing the constraint for an edge, removes that effect for the edge 19:58:49 <frosch123> or in other words: 1. align and draw everything with constraints, 2. add the remaining stuff somehow 19:59:15 <andythenorth> can't decide if it's better or not :) 19:59:50 <frosch123> add copper stuff :) 19:59:54 <frosch123> don't add aluminium 20:00:16 <andythenorth> going to add copper 20:01:09 *** Guest7761 is now known as Prof_Frink 20:01:41 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7766 20:01:52 <andythenorth> removing the constraints is...not helpful :) 20:02:24 *** mindlesstux has quit IRC 20:02:53 *** mindlesstux has joined #openttd 20:08:24 <Samu> I'm investigating FindIndustryToDeliver function, if it needs editing 20:10:27 <Samu> when a vehicle is dumping cargo in a station, it accesses a list of industries near the station 20:10:58 <Samu> only one industry will accept that cargo, in the case of 2 or more of the same kind that accept it 20:14:02 <Samu> i'm under the impression I got to make a few changes here, still unsure if it's really needed, it's a case study 20:14:26 <andythenorth> frosch123: can you recall if you tried different spline options? 20:14:27 <andythenorth> o_O 20:15:23 <Samu> one thing is the station accepting the cargo, another is the industry itself accepting the cargo 20:15:57 <Samu> even if a station accepts the cargo, I still need to direct it to the correct industry, I think I'm not doing this at the moment 20:16:24 <Samu> this is regarding my patch 20:17:48 <frosch123> i tried straight lines; while it looked less chaotic it was also less readable 20:18:31 <frosch123> if there are other options, i never tried them 20:19:41 <andythenorth> polylines works for me, it avoids converging tangents in the bezier curves 20:20:00 <andythenorth> but it looks more like a crazy spider :P 20:25:36 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 20:44:00 <V453000> iz 4-12-4? 20:49:35 <andythenorth> iz 20:52:01 <V453000> good 20:52:09 <V453000> is what I needed to know 20:53:29 <Wolf01> Made of rubber? 20:54:18 <V453000> you mean so it could bend? 20:54:23 <Wolf01> Yes 20:54:29 <V453000> well it's already stretching in lengths so yeah might as well be rubber :P 20:54:46 <Wolf01> 4-12-4 could not be articulated :P 20:54:51 <frosch123> 4-12-4 is not a multiple of 16 20:56:09 <Samu> @calc 4-12-4 20:56:09 <DorpsGek> Samu: -12 20:56:09 <V453000> Wolf01: can just slice it in half :P game doesn't ask 20:56:18 <V453000> frosch123: iz wheel countz 20:56:36 <frosch123> ok :) 20:56:43 <Wolf01> Wtf do you calculate 4-12-4? 20:57:07 <Samu> I don't know 20:58:09 <Wolf01> 2K2 in german notation :P 20:58:42 <Wolf01> Which I think it stops at E or F XD 20:59:06 <Samu> i need a newgrf with 2 different industries, one on water, one on land, that accept the same cargo type. FIRS? 20:59:28 <andythenorth> FIRS 20:59:55 <Samu> which ones are they? 21:00:12 <ST2> FIRS 3 - testers needed ^^ 21:00:50 <Samu> i got FIRS industry replacement set 2.1.5 21:00:59 <Samu> is this the wrong version? 21:01:33 <frosch123> firs 4 21:02:09 *** Guest7766 is now known as Prof_Frink 21:02:30 <frosch123> (andy is probably not the guy who would go for pi versioning) 21:02:41 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7769 21:04:42 <V453000> 3.1.4? :P 21:05:24 <Eddi|zuHause> should do tau... 21:06:42 <Samu> Dedging Site and Clay Pit accept Engineering supplies, nice, one on land, one on water 21:06:48 <frosch123> V453000: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_versioning#TeX 21:06:58 <Samu> now what produces engineering supplies? 21:07:17 <V453000> :D ok 21:08:08 <LordAro> frosch123: andy is not knuth? 21:08:09 <V453000> that's just fucked up number masturbation 21:08:11 <V453000> I like it 21:08:12 <LordAro> i would not have guessed 21:09:15 <frosch123> LordAro: how can you be sure about that? 21:09:47 <LordAro> i have never seen them in the same room at the same time 21:10:54 <Samu> Port?, right 21:11:57 <Samu> what does enhanced production, gung-ho production mean? 21:13:35 <andythenorth> frosch123: so http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/economies.html#steeltown 21:13:48 <andythenorth> orphaned copper (needs to go to factory for electrical machines) 21:13:56 <andythenorth> ports have not enough inputs 21:15:49 <Samu> u talking to me andythenorth ? 21:16:06 <supermop_home> this dairy farm has 6 refrigerated road traind serving it, and is at normal production, and I still can't carry away all the milk 21:18:45 *** Dakkus has joined #openttd 21:19:48 <frosch123> andythenorth: export plain steel? 21:20:11 <Dakkus> Hi there, good lovely nice people-things! Any idea why my horse carts are travelling at 2 km/h? Using the reddit-patched version of OpenTTD, but before the same patch has worked just fine. I'm guessing it's rather some NewGRF, but I have no idea which one it could be. Any guesses? 21:20:29 <Dakkus> And the horse cart is from the eGRVT, or whatever it's called :) 21:22:16 <Dakkus> In a downhill my horses accelerate to 20 km/h, but on flat it's only 2 km/h. 21:22:23 <Dakkus> I find this very very sad :/ 21:22:36 <supermop_home> sounds like they don't have enough power 21:22:56 <supermop_home> is realistic acceleration for Road Vehicles turned on? 21:23:10 <frosch123> andythenorth: pipe->builders yard, fmsp -> trading post 21:24:17 <Dakkus> supermop_home: Yes. 21:24:43 <supermop_home> I vaguely remember that the horses don' work well with it 21:24:55 <frosch123> andythenorth: copper+steel->workshop->ensp 21:25:11 <supermop_home> because the game physics were never really designed to work with such low-powered vehicles 21:25:43 <andythenorth> frosch123: considering deleting Pipe 21:25:46 <andythenorth> logically 21:25:54 <supermop_home> another posibility is the freight weight multiplier 21:25:56 <andythenorth> kind of loses some cargo graphics 21:26:22 <supermop_home> nice my laziness in not yet drawing pipe cargo pays off! 21:26:24 <Dakkus> supermop_home: Even with passenger transport? Ok, will try lowering that back to 1. 21:26:38 * andythenorth considers cargo subtypes :| 21:26:41 <supermop_home> i think even passengers have some weight 21:26:54 <supermop_home> but its probably the realistic acceleration 21:27:17 <Dakkus> Nope, weight multiplier at 1 and it's still stuck. 21:27:37 <Samu> thx FIRS, i detected a bug 21:27:38 <supermop_home> try setting rv acceleration to original 21:28:01 <frosch123> andythenorth: remove the farm, make trading post output food instead of ensp, deliver fmsp to trading post 21:28:18 <andythenorth> yup 21:28:26 <frosch123> then trading post represents all external farm, taking fmsp, delivering food and rubber 21:28:36 <supermop_home> Midwestern economy without farms is weird tho 21:28:54 <andythenorth> is probably fine 21:29:12 <Dakkus> supermop_home: That did help, thanks. A bit sad, but with rv that causes less trouble than with trains. 21:29:18 <andythenorth> I considered an aluminium recycling chain based on scrap 21:29:22 <Dakkus> Thanks, let's see how 1858 will feel this time :) 21:29:24 <andythenorth> but it seems too modern 21:29:34 <frosch123> yeah, aluminium does not fit 21:29:35 <supermop_home> i will say - I dislike temperate basic because there are no fields 21:29:47 <supermop_home> map looks off with just green trees 21:30:02 <andythenorth> no fields at dairy farm? :o 21:30:04 <andythenorth> oh well :) 21:30:10 * andythenorth needs field-objects 21:30:22 <supermop_home> if you can patch in custom field sprites 21:30:23 <supermop_home> ... 21:30:45 <supermop_home> for cow and sheep pastures 21:32:10 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 21:36:43 <andythenorth> frosch123: I deleted pipe :P 21:36:44 <andythenorth> http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/economies.html#steeltown 21:36:50 <andythenorth> and farm 21:38:38 <andythenorth> how many industry types should consume steel? 21:39:26 <frosch123> 2 or 3 21:40:16 <andythenorth> agreed 21:40:34 <andythenorth> there is plenty of room for more cargos 21:40:44 * andythenorth considering electrical machines 21:40:47 <andythenorth> -> port 21:41:22 <frosch123> steel + copper -> ??? -> ensp + some export good 21:41:27 <supermop_home> hmm, station with short-turn terminating services getting crowded 21:41:30 <andythenorth> yes 21:41:34 *** synchris has quit IRC 21:41:47 <andythenorth> currently there is a problem that ENSP is only available by linking the whole chain 21:42:07 <andythenorth> I've tried play-testing that in 2 different games for 2 full games, it's bad 21:42:25 <frosch123> port -> copper -> ??? -> ensp with port-feedback loop is pretty early game 21:42:25 <andythenorth> games / variants /s :P 21:42:41 <andythenorth> if I allow those feedback loops, then yes, its better 21:43:25 <supermop_home> can either build a third 'bay' track, or small yard/shunt just past the station, so terminating train arrives at up platform, runs on empty to the yard, then returns some scheduled time later at the down platform 21:43:32 <andythenorth> sand > foundry also gets ENSP 21:44:09 <andythenorth> other things 21:44:20 <andythenorth> soda ash mine could export salt to bulk terminal 21:44:29 <andythenorth> salt is quite rust-belt 21:44:36 <supermop_home> currently just sits at the up track blocking the line then reverses, crossing to down track below station 21:44:44 <supermop_home> which looks nice and quaint 21:44:58 <supermop_home> andythenorth - potash 21:44:58 <frosch123> farms with two outputs are always nice 21:45:04 <andythenorth> or soda ash mine could produce caustic soda (lye) 21:45:16 <frosch123> so i approve soda ash mine -> salt -> bulk terminal 21:46:25 <andythenorth> mix soda ash with quicklime for caustic soda :P 21:46:38 <andythenorth> or mix salt with limestone for soda ash + quicklime :P 21:46:46 <andythenorth> I like the soda ash mine sprite though :P 21:46:47 <frosch123> i guess that and one industry with steel+copper->???->ensp+export for port, and it's done 21:47:25 <andythenorth> ports tend to need 2 input cargos, otherwise the boost levels are hard to reach 21:49:38 <supermop_home> https://imgur.com/a/DZEaM 21:50:07 <supermop_home> this ugly depot & headshunt hack replaces the nice crossover to the south :( 21:50:28 *** gelignite has quit IRC 21:52:09 <andythenorth> frosch123: plastics is definitely out? o_O 21:52:28 <frosch123> yes, plastics are yoghurt 21:52:40 <andythenorth> ok 21:52:51 <andythenorth> wood is out, forests need FMSP 21:53:43 <frosch123> if you need more for prots 21:53:49 <frosch123> port can also take vehicles 21:54:09 <andythenorth> hmm workshop should make vehicle parts (motors and stuff) 21:54:13 <frosch123> and trading post can also take ensp or building materials 21:55:02 <andythenorth> I guess there are two sources of vehicles parts already 21:55:09 <frosch123> workshop should make smaller-scale stuff 21:55:19 <frosch123> ensp and stuff 21:55:19 <andythenorth> I was thinking the transformers :P 21:55:29 <andythenorth> electrical machines is a valid eye candy 21:55:44 <frosch123> also fine, but nothing for the vehicle chain :) 21:56:03 <andythenorth> steel finishing plant only produces vehicle bodies right now 21:56:13 <andythenorth> galvanised steel = building materials 21:57:03 <frosch123> if you add a second source for buildnig materials, definitely also send them to trading post 21:57:33 <andythenorth> that will ruin the chart :D 21:57:50 <frosch123> secondary issue :p 21:57:55 <andythenorth> BDMT probably should be treated like supplies 21:58:49 *** debdog has quit IRC 21:58:54 <frosch123> you could reverse the ordering for ports 21:59:05 <frosch123> port input on right, port output on left 22:00:26 *** Gja has quit IRC 22:01:51 <andythenorth> I tried headport and tailport earlier 22:01:57 <andythenorth> as an experiment 22:02:17 <andythenorth> I tried most graphviz options tbh :P 22:02:25 <andythenorth> none were worth adding 22:03:09 *** Guest7769 is now known as Prof_Frink 22:03:41 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7771 22:04:11 <andythenorth> instead of electrical machines, how about pressure vessels? : 22:04:17 <andythenorth> seems more steam punk 22:04:26 <andythenorth> still needs steel + copper 22:04:35 <frosch123> are they visually interesting? 22:04:44 <andythenorth> dunno 22:04:46 <frosch123> sounds rather abstract to me 22:04:57 <supermop_home> boilers? 22:05:06 <andythenorth> http://www.predictiveengineering.com/sites/default/files/Figure%202A.jpg 22:05:09 <supermop_home> have odd shapes sometimes 22:05:20 <supermop_home> reactor vessels could work 22:05:20 <andythenorth> https://www.vestekindustries.com/markets-applications/pressure-vessels/data1/images/gulfex3.jpg 22:05:44 <frosch123> essentially pipe :p 22:06:57 *** debdog has joined #openttd 22:07:32 <andythenorth> my thoughts too :P 22:07:37 <andythenorth> copper pipes? o_O 22:07:48 <andythenorth> anyway http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/economies.html#steeltown 22:08:04 <andythenorth> chart is once again appalling :P 22:08:08 <andythenorth> but economy seems better 22:08:54 <frosch123> well, in this case fmsp should be an arrow :p 22:09:55 <andythenorth> adding building materials to steel finishing plant was worst problem 22:11:12 * andythenorth pushes a removal of that 22:11:26 <andythenorth> so tin mine -> tin + steel -> tinplate works 22:11:44 <andythenorth> goods + tinplate 22:11:48 <andythenorth> tinplate -> port 22:12:22 <andythenorth> all the metals? o_O 22:12:32 <andythenorth> nickel plating anyone? 22:13:18 <andythenorth> 29 cargos, 24 industries :D 22:13:27 <andythenorth> that is quite a dense network to build 22:15:35 <andythenorth> tin mines also often produce lead 22:17:38 <andythenorth> copper + zinc gives brass 22:17:56 <andythenorth> also bed :P 22:18:06 <andythenorth> 'done for tonight' http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/economies.html#steeltown 22:18:20 *** Smedles has quit IRC 22:18:21 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 22:18:23 *** Smedles has joined #openttd 22:21:22 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 22:23:43 *** Stimrol has quit IRC 22:35:08 *** Montana has joined #openttd 22:57:23 <Samu> guys, what is CargoMonitorMap used for? 23:00:24 <Samu> ScriptCargoMonitor::GetIndustryDeliveryAmount 23:00:30 <Samu> is this for game scripts? 23:00:31 <ST2> Samu: disable it, compile and check ^^ 23:00:44 <Samu> tell me what it is 23:02:08 <Samu> this monitoring seems to be buggy 23:02:34 <Samu> if an industry is temporarily refusing cargo 23:02:46 <Samu> but the other one nearby is not, 23:03:12 <Samu> the monitoring will add that as if it was delivered 23:04:10 *** Guest7771 is now known as Prof_Frink 23:04:28 <Samu> or maybe i'm misinterpreting the purpose 23:04:38 <Samu> what is it for, st2? 23:04:41 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7773 23:05:13 <ST2> why asking me about a newgrf from last century that's bugged by itself? 23:06:07 <Samu> im not using it atm 23:06:17 <Samu> but this thing is still stored in savegames 23:06:27 <Samu> and is updated often, however, i'm not sure what's for 23:07:15 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 23:07:33 <ST2> me neither, I know that a wheel is round and I don't try to reinventing it 23:08:17 *** oskari89 has quit IRC 23:08:23 <Samu> i am wondering if it's related to a bug that happens with busybee 23:09:03 <ST2> note: dnt mix game code with GS's 23:10:23 <Samu> wasn't there a bug with busybee detecting cargo deliveries? i remember something 23:11:15 <Samu> if this CargoMonitorMap is used for Game Scripts, it could be related 23:19:38 <Cubey> I have no idea, but could it be related to this http://nogo.openttd.org/api/1.7.1/classGSCargoMonitor.html 23:22:48 <Samu> yeah, exactly that 23:24:04 <Samu> imagine you're delivering 10 tonnes of whatever and there are 2 industries that accept it, industry index 0 and 1 23:24:20 <Samu> index 0 is, however, currently refusing it 23:24:29 <Samu> index 1 accepts it 23:24:45 <Samu> however, when sending this information to cargomonitor 23:24:57 <Samu> it seems to reduce to both industries, the same amount 23:25:20 <Samu> maybe i'm confused, :( 23:25:22 <Cubey> Perhaps this is a little used function that is not working correctly? 23:26:17 <Samu> wish i could interpret this part of the code better 23:27:12 <Samu> when both accept 23:27:23 <Samu> the nearest industry gets it 23:27:31 <Samu> nearest to the station in distance manhattan 23:28:06 <Samu> if index 0 is nerest 23:28:13 <Samu> it goes to it 23:30:02 <Samu> cargomonitor appears to take care of nearest industry as well 23:30:45 <Samu> but not when nearest industry refuses it 23:33:04 <Samu> look at cargomonitor.cpp, line 153 23:33:16 <Samu> that for loop 23:33:55 <Samu> then look at economy.cpp, line 1035 23:34:10 <Samu> and line 1086 23:37:00 <Samu> line 1116 23:37:01 <Samu> AddCargoDelivery(cargo_type, company->index, accepted, src_type, src, st); 23:38:26 <Samu> the "accepted" is the cargo amount that was accepted at that station, but the monitoring seems not to care which industry accepted 23:38:50 <Samu> it 23:41:25 <Cubey> So it sounds like the cargo monitor "works," just not exactly as described 23:43:03 *** Flygon has joined #openttd