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00:46:39 *** Mahjong1 has quit IRC 00:46:59 *** Mahjong1 has joined #openttd 00:54:58 *** Thedarkb-X40 has quit IRC 00:56:46 *** majurg has quit IRC 00:58:42 *** glx has quit IRC 01:28:43 *** Supercheese has quit IRC 01:37:58 *** KouDy has joined #openttd 01:38:42 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 02:23:50 *** muffindrake has joined #openttd 02:25:38 *** muffindrake4 has quit IRC 03:13:54 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 03:28:08 *** chomwitt has quit IRC 03:42:45 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 03:59:54 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 04:12:57 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 04:32:26 *** Wacko1976 has joined #openttd 04:49:29 *** KouDy has quit IRC 04:52:12 *** Mek_ has quit IRC 04:58:28 *** KouDy has joined #openttd 05:01:21 *** Mek has joined #openttd 05:06:26 *** KouDy has quit IRC 05:09:00 *** KouDy has joined #openttd 05:10:17 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 05:11:54 *** Wacko1976_ has joined #openttd 05:13:08 *** Wacko1976 has quit IRC 05:24:48 *** KouDy has quit IRC 05:58:46 <andythenorth> o/ 06:13:23 <peter1138> Yes you 06:14:54 *** Pikka has joined #openttd 06:15:03 <peter1138> And him 06:25:57 <andythenorth> such PRs 06:26:29 <peter1138> Ah yes, let's look. 06:26:59 <peter1138> I did request that one ;) 06:27:13 <peter1138> 18 files! 06:27:21 <peter1138> Oh yeah, projects :S 06:32:28 *** chomwitt has joined #openttd 06:36:18 *** KouDy has joined #openttd 06:42:57 *** KouDy has quit IRC 06:59:34 <andythenorth> Pikka: such sprites? o_O 06:59:49 <Pikka> very? 07:00:00 <Pikka> which? 07:00:35 <andythenorth> UKRS 9 07:00:43 <andythenorth> is it done? o_O 07:01:16 <Pikka> partially? 07:01:25 *** KouDy has joined #openttd 07:01:43 <Pikka> 11 locos done-ish? 07:06:56 <andythenorth> which one is the best? 07:06:57 <andythenorth> o_O 07:10:17 <Pikka> ummmm 07:10:44 <Pikka> must be the 37, which I haven't done yet 07:10:55 <andythenorth> I have to draw three 37s 07:11:07 <Pikka> do people like the running sounds in UKRS2, or are they just annoying? 07:11:48 <andythenorth> can't remember :) 07:11:50 <andythenorth> do a poll 07:12:45 <Pikka> I'm not sure if I like them, or if they're just annoying. 07:13:46 <andythenorth> I'd leave them out 07:14:03 <andythenorth> but I tend to mute sounds anyway 07:14:09 <andythenorth> due to the crossing bells problem 07:18:10 <andythenorth> should I industry sounds in FIRS? 07:21:44 <Pikka> only if they're subtle and constant-ish. 07:22:08 <Pikka> the default TTD industry sounds are almost worse than the crossing bells 07:22:18 <andythenorth> the sawmill is the other reason I mute sounds :P 07:22:37 <andythenorth> and then what do industries really sound like anyway? 07:23:57 <Pikka> I remember all the complaints I got about random explosion sounds from quarries :D 07:29:58 *** Execthts has quit IRC 07:34:16 <V453000> :DDD 07:35:03 <V453000> sounds in UKRS2 felt quite weird to me Pikka, but that might be just because the rest of the game is mostly silent 07:38:03 *** Exec has joined #openttd 07:42:02 *** Exec has joined #openttd 07:45:15 *** Fuco has joined #openttd 07:48:50 <andythenorth> so 64 cargos then 07:49:05 <andythenorth> Pikka: ^ multiple regearing cargos? o_O 08:03:18 *** Wacko1976_ has quit IRC 08:15:22 <peter1138> 64 cargos are impossible! 08:16:24 <andythenorth> 128 cargos! 08:19:26 <peter1138> ;( 08:19:33 <peter1138> uint128 yes. 08:19:46 <peter1138> To go beyond 64 I need to figure out how to save that bitsit type. 08:19:52 <peter1138> bitset 08:21:21 <LordAro> __uint128_t 08:27:43 <peter1138> As it is, 64 types is probably shitty on 32 bit computers. 08:28:09 <andythenorth> 'version 2' 08:28:14 <andythenorth> 'we dropped 32 bit' 08:29:30 *** pjpe has quit IRC 08:31:12 <peter1138> :-) 08:31:13 *** Fuco has quit IRC 08:42:25 <peter1138> TrueBrain, why can't DorpsGek_GH chat here? It's not particularly spammy. 08:42:45 <LordAro> ^ 08:43:31 <peter1138> Maybe it was when it was all being set up but it's died down a bit now. 09:05:04 <peter1138> Hmm, although it hasn't twigged yet. 09:18:42 <peter1138> Still. 09:19:42 <peter1138> andythenorth, so... 09:22:01 *** Wacko1976 has joined #openttd 09:23:12 <andythenorth> o_O 09:23:49 <peter1138> O_o what? 09:24:59 <LordAro> 0_0 09:40:00 <peter1138> Is it broken? 09:42:38 <andythenorth> we need notifications in the channel :P 09:43:03 <andythenorth> also I have too many openttd shells :P 09:43:11 <peter1138> I mean, the notice channel didn't get a notification either. 09:43:23 <andythenorth> testing it now 09:43:43 <andythenorth> oh hang on, that sse4 blitter is set in my config :P 09:44:19 * andythenorth tries again 09:46:09 <peter1138> It'll be no different I bet ;p 09:46:36 <andythenorth> I think frosch tried to explain to me that the speedup I saw was due to the likely/unlikely patch 09:47:00 <peter1138> That affects pipelining I guess. 09:48:12 <LordAro> that's a railtype, right? 09:48:22 <peter1138> Not yet, we don't have enough types. 09:48:38 <LordAro> :p 09:50:40 <andythenorth> nope SSE is roughly twice as fast as 1.8.0-RC1 for a simple test 09:50:55 <andythenorth> this is in FFW 09:51:25 <andythenorth> trains going round a loop take 11s in 1.8.0-RC1 on FFWD, full animation 09:51:33 <andythenorth> 5s in latest trunk 09:51:52 <peter1138> \/ 09:51:59 <peter1138> Oh, my head fell off. 09:52:03 <andythenorth> shock 09:52:04 <peter1138> o 09:52:09 <peter1138> Ah, it's over there. 09:52:10 <LordAro> nice 09:58:42 <andythenorth> so in a bigger game, full animation is still noticeably slower 09:58:47 <andythenorth> but it's markedly better 10:01:08 *** TheMask96 has quit IRC 10:01:16 *** TheMask96 has joined #openttd 10:01:21 <peter1138> Don't worry, we'll slow it all down again with 64 railtypes. 10:01:41 <andythenorth> awesome 10:07:12 <peter1138> 32768x32768 map? 10:07:36 <peter1138> That's an extra 2GB! 10:09:25 <andythenorth> yuck 10:09:55 <peter1138> Just for railtypes! 10:10:26 <peter1138> https://devs.openttd.org/~smatz/3d/ 10:10:32 <peter1138> Let's resurrect that. 10:11:19 <peter1138> It's almost brilliant. 10:11:27 <andythenorth> lol 10:11:29 <andythenorth> etc 10:11:38 <andythenorth> n map layers? 10:11:43 <andythenorth> and offsets into them? 10:11:56 <V453000> I remember seeing that video :) 10:11:58 <andythenorth> or one giant wrap around? 10:12:08 <peter1138> Don't know how it works. 10:12:13 <__ln__> wat, there's actually code for underground rails 10:12:15 <peter1138> r11060. Kinda old. 10:12:16 <andythenorth> hmm 10:12:28 <andythenorth> eh 10:12:31 <peter1138> It is at least post-c++. 10:12:37 <andythenorth> we could do 3D with the current map no? 10:12:44 <peter1138> That is. 10:13:01 <andythenorth> slice a 512x512 into 4 layers of 256x256 10:13:01 <peter1138> I'm not sure how it extends the map. 10:13:04 <andythenorth> and use offsets 10:13:10 <peter1138> Oh,well, not really :S 10:13:22 <andythenorth> 'simples' 10:13:26 <peter1138> :-) 10:13:36 <andythenorth> "it's just a drawing problem" 10:13:44 <peter1138> BUT I CAN'T BUILD THIS SPAGHETTI JUNCTION 10:13:54 <andythenorth> oh you can't connect between layers in my plan :) 10:14:02 <andythenorth> everything is planar 10:14:13 <peter1138> Haha 10:14:20 <andythenorth> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sphere-world 10:14:48 <andythenorth> actually it was flatland I wanted, not poincare https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flatland 10:14:58 *** Wacko1976 has quit IRC 10:15:51 <peter1138> Hmm, TileIndex becomes 64 bit with this patch. So maybe you aren't far off :p 10:36:22 <Eddi|zuHause> i was thinking maybe 1 underground layer and one above ground layer, that follow the landscaping, and the rest is still done by ordinary wormhole tunnels? 10:42:58 <peter1138> Limitation disturbs me very sprites. 10:44:01 <Sacro> Goes throw out limitation? 10:45:46 *** debdog has quit IRC 10:47:01 *** debdog has joined #openttd 10:49:51 <Eddi|zuHause> somebody set up us the bomb 10:58:24 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 11:03:23 *** debdog has quit IRC 11:03:57 <andythenorth> 90º tunnels 11:04:08 *** debdog has joined #openttd 11:05:13 <__ln__> andythenorth: surely you mean °, not º 11:05:22 <andythenorth> yes 11:05:47 <andythenorth> I just haven't bothered to learn the key combo for deg 11:05:59 <andythenorth> and someone here always corrects it :P 11:06:13 <__ln__> what a great service 11:07:11 <__ln__> do you regularly write text in spanish, or why do you have º in the first place? 11:09:28 <V453000> LOL 11:12:34 <peter1138> Mac. 11:13:09 <peter1138> andythenorth, yeah, that thread is why I dug up SmatZ's stuff. 11:13:50 <andythenorth> just do 90 deg with a new building tool :P 11:14:02 <peter1138> acs121 is definitely hyping up the NEW MAP ARRAY 11:14:04 <andythenorth> oh, we'd need both start and end tiles? 11:14:46 <andythenorth> acs121 is a remarkable source of nearly-facts 11:14:53 <andythenorth> or as I call them, 'wrongs' 11:48:47 <V453000> rekt 12:36:12 <andythenorth> such Pikka 12:36:23 <andythenorth> should I do a GWR railcar with the silly slopes? 12:36:30 <andythenorth> or make a fake flat face one? 12:41:04 *** Thedarkb1 has joined #openttd 12:44:29 <V453000> cheese or death 12:46:25 <peter1138> FUCK SAKE 12:46:33 <peter1138> Made a mug of tea, burnt mouth :( 12:50:20 <andythenorth> oops 12:50:24 * andythenorth killed a fly 12:50:38 <peter1138> Was it by swallowing? 12:51:11 <andythenorth> nope 12:51:17 <andythenorth> V453000: cheese train https://i1.wp.com/www.p4newstreet.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/dapol-railcar-fin-2.jpg?resize=800%2C417 12:51:37 <V453000> I agree, iz train 13:01:21 <andythenorth> don't want to draw bloody slopes :) 13:01:30 *** sim-al2 is now known as Guest3421 13:01:30 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 13:02:03 *** Mahjong has joined #openttd 13:03:44 <peter1138> Draw vehicles ON slopes! 13:03:59 <V453000> heh 13:04:59 *** Guest3421 has quit IRC 13:06:51 <andythenorth> urgh 13:06:58 * andythenorth having war with flies 13:07:03 *** Mahjong1 has quit IRC 13:08:38 <andythenorth> @seen supermop 13:08:39 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: supermop was last seen in #openttd 1 week, 1 day, 8 hours, 45 minutes, and 57 seconds ago: <supermop> yo 13:10:26 *** Thedarkb-X40 has joined #openttd 13:16:33 *** Thedarkb1 has quit IRC 13:28:43 <Pikka> the fancy noses are fancy though 13:29:08 <Pikka> such bananarama 13:30:22 <andythenorth> I'm doing this one https://www.derbysulzers.com/awshellsideview.jpg 13:30:25 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 13:30:29 <andythenorth> Horse add on can do a banana 13:34:00 *** Alberth has joined #openttd 13:34:00 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth 13:34:26 <Alberth> o/ 13:43:33 *** Flygon has quit IRC 13:48:46 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 13:53:58 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 13:55:34 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 14:21:40 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 14:32:23 *** Gja has joined #openttd 14:46:33 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 14:47:59 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 14:55:25 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 14:56:16 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 15:03:35 *** Stimrol has joined #openttd 15:06:40 *** majurg has joined #openttd 15:25:17 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 15:28:57 <andythenorth> train matches field http://www.railpictures.net/photo/658805/ 15:30:52 <Alberth> nice :) 15:44:33 *** RedJimi has joined #openttd 15:56:18 *** TheMask96 has quit IRC 15:57:20 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 15:57:20 *** TheMask96 has joined #openttd 16:24:39 <peter1138> Well now... 16:26:28 <peter1138> What else I have patches for... 16:28:11 <andythenorth> livery UI 16:28:19 <peter1138> Ah yes. 16:28:21 <andythenorth> and Alberth is here, so the window might get fixed 16:29:44 <Alberth> oh dear :) 16:30:35 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 16:30:45 <nielsm> hmm should I revive/update this patch? https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=82642 16:30:52 <nielsm> never really got any feedback on it at all 16:31:40 <andythenorth> nielsm: that's 'utilisation'? o_O 16:31:41 <andythenorth> interesting 16:31:45 <andythenorth> isn't that on groups now? 16:31:58 <nielsm> I don't think it's quite the same thing 16:32:14 <nielsm> I didn't see anything that measured distance travelled and kept statistics on it 16:32:32 <andythenorth> I think the groups thing is just load %? 16:32:39 <andythenorth> which confused people here 16:32:42 <nielsm> I think "utilisation" on a group is mostly just the average load percentage of the vehicles 16:33:11 <nielsm> this one is actually how much of the time throughout a year the vehicle has run fully loaded, more or less 16:33:32 <andythenorth> average load % should always be ~40% or ~100% (bi-directional cargo) so it's a useless number :) 16:33:35 <nielsm> and also measures (or can measure) how much the vehicle is sitting idle 16:34:10 <nielsm> penalizing vehicles waiting for full load in a station without receiving cargo 16:34:28 <nielsm> meaning if you have too many vehicles on a route, the total efficiency drops 16:34:31 <andythenorth> yeah this sounds like actual utilisation 16:35:03 <andythenorth> miles travelled / cargo ton miles travelled 16:35:25 *** Pikka has quit IRC 16:35:26 *** Progman has joined #openttd 16:36:33 <andythenorth> peter1138: there's some kind of "NRT" branch kicking around 16:36:43 <andythenorth> I think it adds 64 road and tram types to ottd 16:36:45 <andythenorth> not sure 16:37:59 <peter1138> https://github.com/PeterN/OpenTTD/commits/nrt-block-64-rail/road/tram-types 16:38:04 <peter1138> I already did that, you know./ 16:38:34 <andythenorth> I didn't see it in OpenTTD pull requests :) 16:42:01 <peter1138> I wouldn't dare to assume I'd be allowed to 2 bytes the map array :p 16:45:40 <andythenorth> pull request finds out 16:45:46 <andythenorth> roll the dice, might come up 6 16:46:00 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 16:46:09 *** Wacko1976 has joined #openttd 16:47:55 <nielsm> hmm I hope I remember how to do this rebase onto thing 16:49:40 <andythenorth> shame I can't ctrl-click articulated vehicles :P 16:50:05 * andythenorth thinks it should be an available option 16:50:30 <LordAro> nielsm: rebase onto? you shouldn't need that unless it's a branch for the old git repo 16:50:53 <peter1138> ^ 16:51:02 <peter1138> I can't ctrl-click your player face 16:51:09 <nielsm> yes it's from the old repo :) 16:51:14 <peter1138> We should allow that. 16:51:22 <peter1138> Then you could have the earring on either side. 16:51:35 <andythenorth> I can ctrl-click the player face 16:51:38 <andythenorth> is your ottd broken? 16:53:22 *** synchris has joined #openttd 16:54:17 <nielsm> btw what's the common practice for developing patches that need to bump savegame version? 16:54:29 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 16:54:46 <peter1138> I recommend bumping the version. 16:54:55 <Wolf01> o/ 16:55:03 <Wolf01> Agreed 16:55:45 <Alberth> o/ 17:01:26 <Wolf01> <andythenorth> roll the dice, might come up 6 <- 20, natural critical hit, throw again to confirm 17:03:35 *** Fuco has joined #openttd 17:13:13 <peter1138> When you look at landscape_grid.html, there's a lot of unused bits... 17:13:23 <peter1138> Maybe we can use the unused bits from over tile types. 17:13:30 <Wolf01> Yeah, one here, one there 17:14:29 <Wolf01> We might need to defrag it soon or later 17:15:29 <peter1138> :-) 17:18:36 <Wolf01> If we remove trees from saves could we add 64 roadtypes? :P 17:20:40 <peter1138> 64 treetypes 17:20:48 <nielsm> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/compare/master...nielsmh:cargotiles <-- if I were to PR this, would it be better to separate the introduction of Vehicle::Travel() into a separate commit? 17:25:54 <peter1138> Why do you need subposition instead of tiles? 17:26:05 <andythenorth> we do need treetypes 17:26:10 <andythenorth> I can't remember why 17:26:15 <andythenorth> but I wrote a spec somewhere 17:26:43 <nielsm> peter1138: because I want to record the actual distance traveled, without rounding errors 17:27:09 <peter1138> Tiles is the actual distance travelled. 17:27:19 <nielsm> (this was the most immediate way I found to calculate it) 17:27:40 <andythenorth> oh yeah treetypes https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=72502 17:27:57 <andythenorth> and something about "- compression of trees in map (savegame)" 17:28:37 <peter1138> andythenorth, well, that's just an issue of random data. It doesn't compress very well. 17:28:42 *** majurg has quit IRC 17:28:54 <andythenorth> the idea was newgrf trees 17:29:22 <andythenorth> with a (cached result) varaction 2 chain to determine which sprites to show 17:29:34 <andythenorth> then it's just 'tree' and some random bits on the tile 17:29:57 <andythenorth> and trees could have a periodic processing cb, to handle seasonal / random changes 17:30:32 <andythenorth> naturally it could also then be abused for randomly planted 'object' sprites :D 17:31:32 <nielsm> trees that at some point in their lifecycle explode and destroy everything around them, leaving a crater 17:31:33 <nielsm> please 17:31:47 <nielsm> if you don't find and cut them down ahead of time 17:32:03 <andythenorth> I hadn't allowed for that in the spec :P 17:32:14 <andythenorth> but periodic forest fires should be possible :P 17:32:51 *** justiceBEAVER has quit IRC 17:34:08 *** majurg has joined #openttd 17:49:49 <Wolf01> andythenorth: ship https://i0.wp.com/farm1.staticflickr.com/908/42237850151_3ff3c7a347_z.jpg?resize=625%2C469&ssl=1 17:51:17 <andythenorth> not pixels 17:51:56 <Wolf01> Are AWS down? DDoS? I can't reach half of the interwebz 17:55:19 <andythenorth> https://status.aws.amazon.com/ 17:55:41 <Wolf01> That's why I asked, I can't reach that page 17:55:59 <andythenorth> works for me :| 17:56:27 <Wolf01> I suspect my provider is broken 17:57:05 <Wolf01> Some sites work like a charm, full speed, other sites respond after minutes, other ones are literally unreachable 18:01:16 <andythenorth> "everything is awesome" 18:02:30 <Wolf01> 2 18:02:55 <Wolf01> I wonder if they are able to ruin it 18:19:02 <nielsm> tried a different dns provider? 18:21:13 <LANJesus> https://status.aws.amazon.com 18:24:33 <andythenorth> chicken dinner? 18:25:59 *** KouDy has quit IRC 18:29:48 <LANJesus> oh i'm blind. andythenorth already linked : ( 18:30:44 <andythenorth> metro trains lower height than normal trains? o_O 18:38:24 <Wolf01> nielsm, yes, I'm using 3 different dns services, the problem is the route itself somewhere near the backbone which usually has problems 18:42:49 <andythenorth> so ctrl-clicking on any vehicle in an articulated consist would flip the bit on the lead vehicle 18:43:03 <andythenorth> only allowed if a flag is set 18:43:14 <andythenorth> newgrf has to handle reversing the vehicle, ottd won't do 18:43:26 <andythenorth> sounds good eh? o_O 18:56:24 *** glx has joined #openttd 18:56:24 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 19:06:35 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: but should it flip the order of the articulated parts? 19:06:51 <andythenorth> no 19:07:01 <andythenorth> the author has to handle all that via cb36 19:07:09 <Eddi|zuHause> all applications of flipping would be easier if it did 19:07:17 <Eddi|zuHause> all that i have in mind 19:07:31 <andythenorth> but then the consist would be invalid :P 19:07:39 <Eddi|zuHause> no, why? 19:07:55 <andythenorth> because some properties aren't valid for trailing parts 19:08:09 <andythenorth> and the lead part would be moved to last position 19:09:46 <andythenorth> hmm, cb36 for that too :P 19:09:52 <andythenorth> make author handle it 19:10:04 <Eddi|zuHause> why can't the last vehicle be the "lead" in that case? 19:11:03 *** KouDy has joined #openttd 19:12:15 <frosch123> i think we should also newgrf to freely map functions to middle and right mouse button 19:12:38 <frosch123> just to annoy andy :) 19:13:55 <TrueBrain> [10:42] <peter1138> TrueBrain, why can't DorpsGek_GH chat here? It's not particularly spammy. <- it needs the channel to be without +nt .. which is not really ideal in any sorts or form; soon this will be solved thou .. if I can find the time :D 19:14:01 <TrueBrain> (doing your garden takes more time than expected :D) 19:14:09 <andythenorth> such gardening 19:14:20 <andythenorth> also surprisingly satisfying 19:14:57 <andythenorth> frosch123: is that because I have no mouse buttons? :( 19:17:34 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 19:19:19 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 19:23:56 <andythenorth> so is peter1138 allowed to add 2 bytes to the map array then? o_O 19:24:09 <andythenorth> I'm sure we'll all learn something from it ;) 19:26:47 <frosch123> i don't mind more map, i would make it a uint16 though 19:27:15 <frosch123> it's easier to split a uint16 into bits than to combine multiple bytes into something bigger 19:31:39 <LordAro> TrueBrain: would -nt be such a bad thing? 19:33:27 *** Eddi|zuHause has quit IRC 19:34:43 <frosch123> i think tb wants a custom bot anyway :) 19:35:05 *** Thedarkb1 has joined #openttd 19:35:43 *** Gja has quit IRC 19:37:11 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd 19:37:50 <Eddi|zuHause> somehow quitting steam throws X into a 100% CPU loop 19:38:10 <andythenorth> computing is great 19:38:31 <Eddi|zuHause> that happens since the last update, as far as i can tell 19:52:35 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 20:06:18 *** Thedarkb1 has quit IRC 20:09:55 *** synchris has quit IRC 20:15:43 <michi_cc> Anybody here who can read arabic or hebrew? Or who can tell/show me how OpenTTD text should look like? 20:16:25 <nielsm> uh I think I can somewhat tell if it "looks right", but don't actually know the languages 20:17:20 <nielsm> (I've worked a bit with international text rendering in a different context) 20:19:02 <michi_cc> Okay, so http://www.icosahedron.de/openttd/patches/hebrew_1.png or http://www.icosahedron.de/openttd/patches/hebrew_2.png ? 20:19:45 <nielsm> first seems right 20:20:24 <nielsm> at least with regards to placement of punctuation and interspersed LTR/RTL 20:21:11 *** Wacko1976_ has joined #openttd 20:21:25 <nielsm> except for the graphics and sound set description texts, those seem to use an incorrect base flow direction 20:23:27 <michi_cc> Hmm, yeah, that does seem right. Except that hebrew.txt explicitly specifies ##textdir rtl 20:23:30 <nielsm> okay 20:23:35 <nielsm> second is actually correct 20:23:46 <LordAro> lol 20:24:13 <nielsm> comparing the window title to how a text editor with correct bidi handling displays STR_SETTINGS_MENU_GAME_OPTIONS 20:24:47 <nielsm> but it still does mixed-direction content wrong 20:25:02 *** Alberth has left #openttd 20:25:24 <nielsm> i.e. the (GBP) in the currency dropdown 20:26:04 <nielsm> and the music set description which is untranslated ought to use LTR as base text direction 20:26:30 <nielsm> (but it gets handled as RTL so the period is placed wrong) 20:26:33 *** Wacko1976 has quit IRC 20:27:10 <nielsm> possibly some of those things are best fixed by just inserting unicode directional marks in the strings to get them right 20:27:48 <michi_cc> Well, untranslated is something that is long lost by the time the string goes through the layout phase. 20:28:42 <nielsm> could the translation reader maybe prepend an LTR mark if it picks an untranslated string when the selected language is RTL? 20:28:55 <nielsm> or would that break untold numbers of things? :) 20:29:13 <michi_cc> The currency thing might actually simply be from the lang file, as that contains the (GBP) first in the string. 20:29:35 <Eddi|zuHause> so the langfile needs the LTR mark there? 20:29:41 <nielsm> huh okay I see that 20:29:43 <michi_cc> BTW, hebrew_1 is the straight ICU output (except with exceptions suppressed because otherwise it would fail half the time). 20:30:16 <michi_cc> So maybe the translation might also have been fudged to cause ICU to output what is wanted. 20:30:59 <nielsm> perhaps 20:31:10 <nielsm> have to ask the translators 20:31:32 <nielsm> http://0x0.st/s2ov.png 20:33:10 <nielsm> how do the strings for those two last currencies render? 20:34:29 <nielsm> and on a second thought, prepending LTR marks to untranslated strings during loading is going to break things, when things get combined in the formatting stuff 20:35:19 <nielsm> (what should it do if an untranslated string is glued into the middle of a translated one? or vice versa?) 20:38:08 <michi_cc> The string should probably be framed by LRO (or LRE, or LRI, or FSI (why do there have to be so many...)) and PDF/PDI 20:41:22 <nielsm> I still think it's going to break, better to leave it simple and just accept that incomplete translations will result in potentially broken bidi 20:44:29 *** Kilm has joined #openttd 20:44:33 <Kilm> Hi folks 20:45:01 <Kilm> Quick question, possibly stupid, but I can't see the answer - the function that lets you see what area a path signal covers.. how do i get that to show? I'm trying very hard to understand this black magic stuff. 20:46:04 <nielsm> it's in the advanced settings somewhere 20:46:27 <nielsm> "Show path reservations for tracks" 20:46:32 <Kilm> Awesome 20:49:48 <Kilm> Oh my god 20:49:53 <Kilm> It's like suddenly understand physics 20:51:37 <nielsm> next go spend a few days with SimSig 20:51:39 <nielsm> :) 20:53:25 <Kilm> Haha, just had a look. 20:53:26 <Kilm> Nope. 20:53:27 <Kilm> :) 20:54:48 <nielsm> it's a very good teaching experience! 20:55:28 <nielsm> (and will probably give some more appreciation for the causes of train delays in real life) 20:59:21 <Kilm> I've been away from TT for over a decade, ever since I lost the save of a game I'd been playing for about nine years. It's amazing how quickly it comes back. 20:59:28 <Kilm> Though I've just realised the value of 'full load' for ratings increases. 21:03:11 *** gelignite has quit IRC 21:04:18 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 21:07:04 <andythenorth> such bed 21:07:04 *** andythenorth has left #openttd 21:09:21 <Kilm> I take it the trick with Open TTD is not to really care about time? 21:09:36 <Kilm> I'm trying to understand the path and station loading stuff, and it's taking a year for a train to fully load. 21:09:47 <Kilm> So it's still making £20k profit a year, but it's only getting one run a year in. 21:09:55 <peter1138> frosch123, re uint16, I suppose so. It does mean you need more SB/GB if previously you just accessed the full byte. 21:10:08 <LordAro> Kilm: longer routes are in general more profitable 21:10:27 <peter1138> frosch123, I did actually do it as uint16 first but changed it! ;) 21:10:41 <LordAro> also, depending how you measure tiles are ~40m in length or a few hundred km 21:10:43 <LordAro> i think 21:12:20 <peter1138> less than 40m. 21:12:32 <Kilm> Yeah LordAro, I'm just trying to figure out the basics a bit more. So to make two trains of seven length wait for full cargo of coal, each one takes a year to fill but brings in £20k. If I do 'if available' then they only make £8k each. 21:12:35 <Kilm> In a year. 21:12:43 <Kilm> That's one question sorted. 21:14:28 <nielsm> if you want to optimize for company rating score, you definitely want trains to make more than 1 delivery a year on average 21:23:13 <Eddi|zuHause> Kilm: the key part to optimize here is that the station is never empty, always a train loading. otherwise the rating goes down, and you get less cargo to transport 21:23:57 <Wolf01> 'night 21:23:59 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 21:24:31 <Eddi|zuHause> only then you gradually tune the length of the train vs. amount of trains, so you have less time wasted loading, while not overloading your network 21:27:08 *** nielsm has quit IRC 21:39:46 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 21:43:37 <peter1138> Hmm, well 21:47:46 <Kilm> Ah okay. 21:48:01 <Kilm> So rather than having seven carriages sat loading for a year, trim it to for example, four and see how it works out in time vs profit 21:50:51 *** Eddi|zuHause2 has joined #openttd 21:55:13 *** Eddi|zuHause has quit IRC 21:59:59 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 22:05:34 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd 22:20:05 *** Progman has quit IRC 22:31:55 *** Kilm has quit IRC 22:32:31 *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause 22:33:16 *** majurg has quit IRC 23:01:00 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 23:11:53 *** Fuco has quit IRC 23:22:37 *** Smedles_ has joined #openttd 23:25:41 *** Smedles has quit IRC 23:26:23 *** chomwitt has quit IRC 23:40:56 <Eddi|zuHause> every time someone says "singals on bridges and in tunnels is already done" i want to scream at them how wrong they are 23:50:02 <Supercheese> they really mean "signals on bridges and in tunnels is already crudely hacked in" 23:51:45 *** tokai has joined #openttd 23:51:45 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 23:58:48 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC