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00:00:07 *** synchris has quit IRC 00:21:42 *** Thedarkb has joined #openttd 01:05:26 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 02:10:36 *** muffindrake1 has joined #openttd 02:12:30 *** muffindrake has quit IRC 02:21:15 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 02:24:12 *** muffindrake1 has quit IRC 02:27:24 *** muffindrake has joined #openttd 02:39:11 *** glx has quit IRC 03:36:06 *** sim-al2 is now known as Guest1158 03:36:08 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 03:40:20 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 03:41:25 *** Guest1158 has quit IRC 04:13:16 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd 04:18:40 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 05:30:36 *** Alberth has joined #openttd 05:30:36 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth 05:30:43 <Alberth> moin 05:54:32 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 06:09:12 *** KouDy has quit IRC 06:13:23 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 06:16:42 *** Wacko1976_ has quit IRC 06:17:16 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 06:19:54 *** KouDy has joined #openttd 06:20:20 <andythenorth> moin 06:24:07 *** Wacko1976 has joined #openttd 06:26:18 *** rocky113844 has quit IRC 06:34:06 <Alberth> moin 06:45:14 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 06:57:46 <andythenorth> Alberth: somewhat http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/economies.html#extreme 06:57:53 <andythenorth> I'm still splitting out the town cargos 06:58:13 <andythenorth> ideas welcome, I'd rather load it up with too much stuff, then delete some 07:00:56 <Alberth> Warf looks a little lonely :) 07:01:13 <andythenorth> it is 07:01:28 <andythenorth> town industries particularly welcome 07:01:33 <andythenorth> it's a random set of cargos :P 07:01:48 <andythenorth> considering: restaurant, supermarket, department store 07:02:07 <andythenorth> cargos yet to add: furniture, edible oil, some split of goods 07:02:31 <Alberth> Stockyard would need some livestock areas? 07:02:59 <andythenorth> in the sprite? 07:05:09 <Alberth> yes 07:05:23 <andythenorth> yes, I want to redraw it 07:05:31 <andythenorth> it's one monolothic sprite currently 07:05:36 <andythenorth> been on my list for ages :) 07:06:11 <Alberth> bakery seems off-scale wrt to its input, if a bakery is a shop in the city 07:06:34 <andythenorth> the town industries are all just clones of shop currently 07:06:38 <Alberth> could have industrial bakery, and ship food, I guess 07:06:46 <andythenorth> I wondered if food needs to stay 07:06:51 <andythenorth> hotel is weird now 07:06:56 <andythenorth> food is gone 07:07:02 <andythenorth> but not enough inputs for all the types 07:07:14 <Alberth> could have a cake-shop 07:07:27 <andythenorth> fruit + sugar + flour 07:07:32 <andythenorth> or dairy + sugar + flour 07:08:02 <andythenorth> also, I suppose if I add illegal drugs, my kids can't play it :P 07:08:04 <Alberth> (the current bakery), and add bread or so with industrial bakery, although it would make cookies too 07:08:11 <andythenorth> cookie factory 07:08:42 <Alberth> sounds like a fun cargo :p 07:08:51 <Alberth> more toy-land 07:08:54 <andythenorth> I wondered about butchers being deli 07:08:58 <andythenorth> meat + dairy 07:09:00 <andythenorth> dunno how that works 07:09:09 <andythenorth> this is approximately austria-germany-poland 07:09:39 <Alberth> butcher would be fine imho 07:09:48 <andythenorth> slight change, I dropped sulphur http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/economies.html#extreme 07:09:53 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 07:10:15 <andythenorth> potatoes + edible oil -> chip shop? 07:10:37 <Wolf01> Potatoes + diesel = ? 07:10:47 <Alberth> dairy products might include meat though, maybe that's what you meant? 07:10:48 <Wolf01> Oh it's not alchemy 07:10:52 <Alberth> ho Wolf01 07:10:56 <Wolf01> o/ 07:10:57 <Alberth> *hi 07:11:06 <andythenorth> Alberth: I was thinking have butchers accept dairy 07:11:07 <andythenorth> maybe 07:11:18 <andythenorth> in UK now butchers sell cheese often 07:11:23 <Wolf01> Mmmmh... alchemy chain 07:11:33 <andythenorth> mmm 07:11:40 <Alberth> here they might accept livestock 07:11:42 <andythenorth> salt could go to food processing plants also 07:11:49 <andythenorth> live chickens? 07:12:08 <andythenorth> I don't think butchers recieve trainloads of salt, so I'll probly ignore that 07:12:14 <Alberth> cows mostly I think, since I live in cow country :p 07:12:17 <Wolf01> Monkey + tool = monkey wrench 07:12:21 <andythenorth> spice? 07:12:29 <andythenorth> imported pepper and stuff 07:12:38 <andythenorth> Wolf01: http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/economies.html#extreme 07:13:06 <andythenorth> compare :P http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/releases/LATEST/docs/html/economies.html#extreme 07:13:06 <Alberth> spice seems big enough in variety 07:13:07 <Wolf01> Ha! 07:13:29 <Wolf01> A bit more readable 07:13:39 <Alberth> less extreme :p 07:13:54 <Wolf01> Good choice with the grocer's shop 07:14:01 <andythenorth> it's quite extreme 07:14:04 <andythenorth> because on smaller maps 07:14:10 <andythenorth> the game struggles to build the industries :P 07:14:42 <Wolf01> Eh, I play mainly 64 07:14:52 <andythenorth> on 256x512 it's building ~1 of each 07:14:55 <andythenorth> so potentially have to transport across whole map between each 07:14:56 <Wolf01> 64*1024 07:15:37 <Wolf01> It would be cool if the industries can be somewhat in order, so I can start from one end 07:16:23 <Wolf01> Maybe even distinct chains in different parts of the map 07:16:32 <andythenorth> that could be done 07:16:39 <andythenorth> better with GS, but not current GS 07:16:47 <andythenorth> hmm 07:16:56 <andythenorth> so I only have about 50% of the new town industries 07:17:01 <andythenorth> but they're not getting well placed 07:17:07 *** Wacko1976 has quit IRC 07:17:43 <andythenorth> most towns lack most of the shops 07:17:53 <andythenorth> so it's not so much 'city chaos' as 'this town accepts nothing' 07:18:01 <Wolf01> Put a weight for the quantity of industries? Could be useful to have a lot of tertiary industries and fewer primary/secondary 07:18:37 <andythenorth> I can control probability 07:18:51 <andythenorth> but it's relatively limited, and easy to get unintended consequences 07:18:54 <Wolf01> The "number of industries" setting need to be tuned better considering the type of industries and map area 07:19:16 <andythenorth> what's long needed is some better control over creation 07:19:23 <andythenorth> placement can be absolutely controlled 07:19:30 <andythenorth> but not the choice of where to try placing :P 07:19:39 <Wolf01> Or make scenarios, I would like to make a scenario with firs when firs will be finished 07:20:07 <Alberth> no electronic devices? 07:20:38 <Wolf01> Could a scenario contain a GS? It would be a good thing to have a scenario with specific goals 07:20:39 <Alberth> refridgerators, freezers, and tvs? 07:21:02 <andythenorth> household appliances 07:21:10 <andythenorth> steel + plastic + copper 07:21:13 <Alberth> Wolf01: Likely it can, the tutorial has something like that 07:21:54 <andythenorth> my main challenge here is balancing the heavy industry cargos and the town cargos eh 07:22:23 <Alberth> yeah, new version seems to me more 'heavy' 07:22:48 <andythenorth> I could take some detail out of the chemicals chain 07:22:51 <andythenorth> but I like it :P 07:23:01 *** Supercheese has quit IRC 07:23:15 <andythenorth> v3 extreme, everything is over-connected 07:23:37 <Alberth> wouldn't that be more simple? 07:24:06 <andythenorth> it's simpler in some ways, more chance of a supplier + accepter being nearby 07:24:06 <Alberth> less connections would be more difficult, I think 07:24:16 <andythenorth> but cargos are over-demanded, so that's frustrating 07:24:52 <Alberth> clearly a bakery could produce a 3,000 tonnes of bread / month :p 07:24:56 <andythenorth> easy 07:25:06 <andythenorth> bread is quite light though eh 07:25:34 <andythenorth> so goods needs unpicked 07:25:36 <Alberth> I believe 3,000 bread / month 07:25:52 <andythenorth> household chemicals, household appliances 07:26:04 <andythenorth> furniture 07:26:17 <andythenorth> that puts it at 45 cargos total so far 07:26:34 <Alberth> 19 left :p 07:26:39 <andythenorth> I am aiming for 48 :) 07:26:42 <andythenorth> oh paper too 07:27:01 <andythenorth> then building materials needs unpicked maybe 07:27:02 <andythenorth> not sure 07:27:09 <andythenorth> might be fine as a composite 07:27:17 <Alberth> I think it is 07:27:20 <andythenorth> other than 'builders yard' where can building materials go? 07:27:28 <andythenorth> 'construction site' doesn't work 07:27:33 <Alberth> DIY shops :p 07:27:39 <andythenorth> hardware store, already in :) 07:28:20 <andythenorth> I think cement can be dropped back into building materials 07:28:21 <Alberth> construction site as house? 07:28:51 <Alberth> would be nice if you can limit its life time then 07:29:58 <andythenorth> there's no automobile chain here currently 07:30:04 <andythenorth> it's been requested multiple times 07:30:11 <andythenorth> but I don't want it here, so eh :P 07:30:11 <Wolf01> Add more cargos accepted by buildings without making them industries? 07:30:19 <andythenorth> Wolf01: considering it 07:30:33 <andythenorth> but then I have to make a house set separately 07:30:42 <andythenorth> and there's no way to enforce loading it 07:31:27 <Wolf01> If you load it you make use of it, if you don't nothing changes 07:31:48 <Wolf01> And if you load it without firs you can use it with other available cargos 07:32:16 *** synchris has joined #openttd 07:32:36 <Wolf01> Maybe on firs you can detect if it's loaded and enable/disable specific town industries 07:33:56 <andythenorth> can we fund individual houses yet? 07:34:01 <Alberth> I agree automobile chain would not fit here 07:34:56 <Wolf01> <andythenorth> can we fund individual houses yet? <- no, and it would be like a gread addition 07:36:39 <andythenorth> no cement, simpler again http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/economies.html#extreme 07:37:12 <andythenorth> so do we package milk in aluminium cans? 07:37:20 <andythenorth> something is not right with packaging 07:37:41 <Wolf01> Paper or glass 07:39:17 <andythenorth> I wonder if packaging is interesting at all 07:39:29 <andythenorth> kind of tedious 07:40:13 <Wolf01> Ha, acs121 throwing knowledge all around :P 07:41:07 <andythenorth> one of the several reasons I quit forums 07:41:27 <Wolf01> Oh you ragequit too? 07:41:32 <andythenorth> yes 07:41:37 <Wolf01> Did you delete all your posts? 07:41:40 <andythenorth> nope 07:41:42 <Wolf01> :P 07:41:47 <andythenorth> Michael sniped one time too many 07:41:56 <andythenorth> I can't be arsed 07:42:21 <andythenorth> I do think forums are pretty toxic now 07:42:41 <andythenorth> I should stop donating eh 07:43:04 *** RafiX2 is now known as RafiX 07:47:07 <andythenorth> anyone want to do the FIRS release announcements? o_O 07:47:21 <andythenorth> it's just a copy-paste from changelog to forum :P 07:47:33 <Wolf01> Ha... nope, YOU do it :P 07:47:57 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 07:47:57 <Wolf01> Limit yourself to only make release announcements and don't reply 07:47:58 <andythenorth> maybe new openttd.org will handle it 07:52:58 <Wolf01> MMMMMMMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmhh NRT with 2 tram types in a single tile 07:53:15 <Wolf01> Bad wolf, bad wolf 07:54:47 <andythenorth> 'fancy goods' 07:54:55 <andythenorth> 'curiosities' 07:54:59 <andythenorth> 'baubles' 07:55:01 * andythenorth has ideas :P 07:55:38 <Alberth> needful things :p 07:55:43 <andythenorth> hmmm 07:55:47 <Alberth> may end badly though :p 07:55:51 <andythenorth> 'essential luxuries' 07:55:59 <andythenorth> also we don't have 'nightsoil' cargo :P 07:56:15 <andythenorth> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_soil 07:56:53 <Alberth> no waste cargo? has been requested as well :) 07:57:45 <andythenorth> I tried waste 07:57:48 <andythenorth> didn't work at the time 07:57:51 <andythenorth> could restore it 07:58:11 <Alberth> likely it doesn't work indeed, not much you can do with it 07:58:34 <andythenorth> waste -> furnace 07:58:34 <Alberth> mostly sorting it, and then dispatch to various recycle things 07:58:48 <andythenorth> recyclables is there already, I replaced waste with it 07:59:05 <Alberth> so you covered it mostly already 07:59:20 <andythenorth> mostly :) 08:00:25 <Wolf01> Make waste pits, with a stockpile and don't use it, so when full you need to find another industry :P 08:00:40 <andythenorth> hmm 08:00:47 <andythenorth> this is close to needing a play test 08:00:59 <andythenorth> can't decide how long chains should be 08:01:36 <andythenorth> Steeltown is quite brutal, 6 steps to get final cargo out of chain 08:01:53 <andythenorth> and every step is about 75% efficient at best 08:02:08 <andythenorth> so the amount of raw input required is huge 08:02:21 <andythenorth> I don't want that here :P 08:04:30 *** stefino has joined #openttd 08:06:04 <Wolf01> I was reading the shunting topic, I think there is one big thing missing: consists 08:09:22 <stefino> hello all. Is "game tick" constantly long or not? I read that it takes +- 30ms but in case of sound events it looks that it isn't constant. If I have 16tick long sound event (stop vehicle), 16*0,030=0,48s - it would give constant sound track - theoretical. In game it isn't constant. 08:10:00 <nielsm> yes the 30 ms is at "ideal standard speed" 08:10:10 <nielsm> a tick is not a real-time thing but a simulation thing 08:10:31 <nielsm> if the computer is slow ticks can take longer than 30 ms to process and so the game will run slower than real time 08:10:38 <stefino> okay but it has tobe constantly long 08:10:54 <nielsm> there isn't any good way to synchronize a long-running sound to on-screen actions 08:11:23 <nielsm> (also what if the player pauses the game right as the sound has started playing? it keeps playing while nothing is being simulated) 08:12:27 <stefino> no, I don't need to synchonize sound with graphics. I need to make perfect sound loop. First loop ends, second starts. 08:13:07 <nielsm> yeah that's not possible at all 08:14:26 <nielsm> additionally, if the player turns on fast-forward mode you can get ticks taking as little as 2 or 1 ms 08:15:03 <stefino> mmm, that's bad :/ 08:15:17 <nielsm> the sound mixer would need a way to mark a sound as looping so the sound subsystem itself could handle it, but then you run into issues with how to stop it, and the limited number of channels 08:15:41 <stefino> it is funny that there is a possibility to make stopped or running sound events but it is unreal to do it :D 08:16:26 <stefino> ...to doa perfect sound loop 08:21:06 *** Progman has joined #openttd 08:34:08 <andythenorth> potatos 08:34:13 <andythenorth> SPUD or TATO for the label? 08:34:16 <andythenorth> I ruled out CHIP 08:39:12 <Alberth> POTA ? 08:39:20 <nielsm> TATR 08:39:49 <Alberth> RXQW 08:41:57 <andythenorth> POTA is potash already 08:56:29 <andythenorth> but is it extreme? o_O http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/economies.html#extreme 08:58:07 <Wolf01> It is BIG for sure 08:59:09 <andythenorth> it's less and less connected 08:59:12 <andythenorth> which might be fine 08:59:40 <nielsm> metal workshop/metal fabrication plant -> industrial waste -> recycling depot 09:01:03 <nielsm> hm no make that machine shop -> small output of scrap metal 09:03:28 <nielsm> recycling plant -> scrap plastic -> plastics plant ? 09:05:39 <nielsm> also imo the plastics plant should make raw plastic which can then be processed further at other specialized industries 09:09:32 <andythenorth> yeah 09:09:35 <andythenorth> I wondered 09:09:39 <andythenorth> now I've dropped packaging 09:09:58 <andythenorth> I could restore packaging and have a packaging factory also 09:10:09 <andythenorth> ok 09:10:19 <andythenorth> more ideas welcome, most won't fly but eh 09:12:50 *** stefino has quit IRC 09:13:51 <nielsm> is there a way for an industry to check if another industry of some type is nearby and so if it has a certain level of production/input? 09:14:14 <nielsm> could maybe be interesting if keeping a power plant supplied allowed manufacturing nearby to benefit 09:16:08 <andythenorth> it can check for existence 09:16:09 <nielsm> also can an industry check the size of its associated town (or how much population is within some radius of it)? because recycling depot should really have output depending on the population it supports 09:16:10 <andythenorth> but not supply 09:16:24 <andythenorth> recycling depot does exactly that ;) 09:16:31 <nielsm> ah cool! 09:17:05 <andythenorth> there was a spec for town registers for a while 09:17:07 <nielsm> the documentation should probably say so somewhere 09:17:09 <andythenorth> not sure if it was implemented 09:17:18 <andythenorth> but electricity is best handled by writing to a town register 09:17:23 <andythenorth> power supply 0-16 09:17:30 <andythenorth> then let industry read that 09:20:01 <andythenorth> hmm 09:20:20 <andythenorth> without packaging, the aggriculture chains are very one dimensionals 09:21:16 <nielsm> aluminium + fruit -> cannery 09:21:48 <andythenorth> something like that 09:23:39 <andythenorth> ok BBL 09:23:41 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 09:24:24 <TrueBrain> omg, a spammer on github ... did not expect that! :P 09:42:04 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 09:42:18 *** Wacko1976 has joined #openttd 09:46:41 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 09:48:59 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd 09:49:24 <andythenorth_> nielsm so fruit + cans = ???? :) 09:49:42 <andythenorth_> food is not in this economy 09:49:48 <nielsm> that's just food 09:49:53 <nielsm> hmm 09:49:59 <nielsm> non-perishable food? 09:50:09 <andythenorth_> canned food? 09:50:32 <nielsm> probably yes 09:50:53 <nielsm> canned food compared to certain other kinds of food can be transported for longer without losing value... 09:51:14 <andythenorth_> +1 09:51:32 <andythenorth_> where do sausages fit in this picture? :p 09:51:50 <nielsm> and then you have surströmming which must be transported for at least 6 months before it has value to deliver!! 09:52:08 <andythenorth_> is that rotten fish? 09:52:12 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 09:52:13 <nielsm> yes 09:52:31 <andythenorth_> Yeah, I might put the fish back in 09:52:35 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm sure that is how they make it, they put it on trucks and drive it around for 6 months 09:52:42 <nielsm> recommended you open the can submerged in a bucket of water, in the middle of a forest, wearing a rebreather 09:53:03 <andythenorth_> I’ve seen the YT videos 09:54:06 <andythenorth_> salt cod? 09:54:21 <andythenorth_> sun-dried tomatos? 09:54:33 <nielsm> well there is the norwegian "linje akvavit", a spirit whose selling point is that the barrels have matured on board a seagoing ship 09:54:36 <Eddi|zuHause> "vegan food" 09:54:58 <andythenorth_> is it weird to not have baked goods? 09:55:09 <andythenorth_> instead bakery is black hole 09:55:39 <Wolf01> If you put bakeries in cities then fine 09:55:42 <andythenorth_> also there are no non-alcoholic drinks 09:56:32 <Eddi|zuHause> water+sugar=soda 09:57:15 <Eddi|zuHause> (+some really minor additives so they can call it "orange") 09:57:19 <andythenorth_> chlorine + soda ash -> waterworks 09:57:27 <Wolf01> And carbonation 09:57:37 <andythenorth_> industrial gases? 09:57:43 <andythenorth_> cryo plant? 09:57:45 <Wolf01> Pollution 09:57:53 <Wolf01> And biters attacks 09:57:57 <Wolf01> Ops wrong game :P 09:58:00 <andythenorth_> sewage -> waterworks 09:58:13 <andythenorth_> pollution is original sim city 09:58:23 <andythenorth_> or was that brownouts? 09:59:10 <andythenorth_> not sure any of this works, industries in town don’t work great :D 09:59:31 <andythenorth_> and nobody needs 1k tonnes of yoghurt per month 09:59:36 <nielsm> paper mill -> paper packaging, paper packaging goes to dairy 09:59:48 <nielsm> and butcher's shop 09:59:51 <andythenorth_> tetrapak? 09:59:57 <nielsm> like that yeah 10:00:01 <andythenorth_> cheese paper 10:00:11 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm fairly sure the version of sim city i played had pollution 10:00:35 <andythenorth_> can I abuse tile acceptance? 10:00:39 <nielsm> I think simcity has always had a more or less abstract simulation of pollution 10:00:56 <andythenorth_> to get 12 cargos into 4x4 supermarket? 10:01:09 <andythenorth_> or does that not work right? 10:01:17 <nielsm> even in the original simcity residential was bad too close to industry 10:01:27 <Eddi|zuHause> i think you'll have trouble putting that large of an industry in a town 10:01:48 <Eddi|zuHause> the acceptance will work, but the industry graph will not be correct 10:02:07 <andythenorth_> hmm 10:02:54 <nielsm> glass works -> bottles -> distillery, dairy, cannery 10:03:15 *** sim-al2 is now known as Guest1169 10:03:16 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 10:03:17 <andythenorth_> so 48 cargos or 64? o_O 10:03:32 <Wolf01> Go for 64 10:03:46 <Eddi|zuHause> what if it ends up as 53? 10:03:50 <andythenorth_> I think it’s unwise :p 10:03:57 <Wolf01> You want it extreme 10:03:58 <andythenorth_> eddi my bet is 56 10:04:08 <Wolf01> I bet 63 10:04:25 <andythenorth_> FIRS Unplayable 10:05:13 <andythenorth_> so detergent, or household chemicals? 10:05:20 *** Guest1169 has quit IRC 10:05:50 <andythenorth_> also, medicines, as low weight, high value? 10:06:38 <andythenorth_> glue? from stockyard? 10:07:08 <andythenorth_> toys? 10:07:14 <nielsm> household chemicals is better imo 10:07:16 <Eddi|zuHause> is that actually how that is produced, or just a meme you tell children when they ask where horses go? 10:07:16 <andythenorth_> lego factory 10:07:23 <Wolf01> ^ 10:07:33 <nielsm> modern glue is mostly synthetic 10:07:40 <nielsm> polymer based 10:07:45 <andythenorth_> glue is/was often rendered from gelatine 10:07:57 <andythenorth_> sweet factory? 10:08:05 <Eddi|zuHause> gummy bears 10:08:20 <andythenorth_> hah hah I can do something here for toyland fans :) 10:08:31 <Wolf01> Put amusement parks 10:08:44 *** andythen_ has joined #openttd 10:08:46 <Wolf01> With water slides when near of the coasts 10:08:53 <andythen_> big chunk of toyland 10:09:11 <andythen_> cola, batteries, plastic, toys, sugar 10:09:32 <Wolf01> But less toyish 10:09:36 <nielsm> but without the battery farms and sugar mines 10:10:51 <Wolf01> *Industry graph explodes* 10:11:17 <andythen_> tesla are building battery farms, no? 10:11:27 <Wolf01> It's a factory 10:11:44 <nielsm> I don't think the batteries literally grow from the ground :) 10:11:51 <andythen_> are batteries a good cargo? 10:11:59 <nielsm> too specific imo 10:12:01 <Wolf01> But you can make salt and lithium farms 10:12:33 <andythen_> salt is already in.... 10:12:46 <Wolf01> Lithium then 10:12:51 <andythen_> lithium is mined? 10:13:02 <Wolf01> Extracted from ponds 10:13:06 <andythen_> electronics factory 10:14:06 <andythen_> but the big question 10:14:15 <andythen_> tractor plant, or not? 10:14:28 <andythen_> try saying it in Russian accent also 10:14:29 <Wolf01> FMSP? 10:14:33 <andythen_> tractor plant 10:14:49 <Wolf01> In mother russia the tractors make you 10:14:52 <andythen_> traktor 10:15:00 <andythen_> currently in 10:15:09 <andythen_> but only accepts steel 10:15:23 <andythen_> vpts, as import? 10:15:26 <Eddi|zuHause> in the 1930s, germany sent "tractor parts" into the soviet union 10:16:03 <Eddi|zuHause> when assembled, those became tanks, that were used to train the german army without technically violating the versailles treaty 10:16:09 <andythen_> lol 10:16:15 <andythen_> etc 10:16:22 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 10:16:35 <andythen_> FIRS used to have ‘parts’ 10:16:53 <andythen_> maybe it’s time to restore it :p 10:17:06 <Eddi|zuHause> parts of what? 10:17:19 <andythen_> exactly :p 10:17:20 <Alberth> firs? 10:17:21 <Wolf01> Parts. 10:17:28 <andythen_> it didn’t work 10:17:40 <andythen_> but I need conponents now for traktors 10:17:54 <Alberth> every citizen a tractor? 10:17:55 <Eddi|zuHause> so "machine parts" 10:18:02 <andythen_> yes 10:18:05 <Wolf01> Lego parts? 10:18:16 <andythen_> there isn’t room to produce them in detail 10:18:22 <Wolf01> :( 10:18:25 <andythen_> can be imported 10:18:35 <Wolf01> Make a lego economy 10:18:36 <Eddi|zuHause> 3D-printed? 10:18:50 <andythen_> Traktor Plant 10:19:01 <Wolf01> With 62 types of parts (other cargos are chemicals and plastic) 10:19:26 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: that's almost as bad as the minecraft economy :p 10:19:33 <Wolf01> :D 10:20:07 <Wolf01> Skeleton spawner -> arrows, bones -> bone meal -> crops 10:20:18 *** tokai has joined #openttd 10:20:18 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 10:20:20 <andythen_> red traktors 10:20:29 <andythen_> blue traktora 10:20:37 <andythen_> green traktors 10:21:11 <Wolf01> Tokens to build and run things, like mashinky 10:21:14 <Eddi|zuHause> do they correspond with the food you can harvest with them? 10:21:14 <andythen_> fmsp from fishing harbour (bone meal) 10:23:52 <andythen_> cows need red tractors eddi 10:24:17 <andythen_> the farms are colour coded already :) 10:25:48 <Wolf01> I always thought that tractors were coloured by brand 10:26:29 <andythen_> that too 10:27:04 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 10:32:51 *** Thedarkb has quit IRC 10:34:02 <Eddi|zuHause> the red tractor is obviously the fastest 10:34:48 *** andythen_ has quit IRC 10:35:53 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd 10:38:20 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd 10:38:34 <andythenorth_> hmm I am at Tesco 10:38:46 <andythenorth_> we need 2048 cargos 10:39:04 <Wolf01> Oh, looking for inspiration? 10:40:19 <andythenorth_> :p 10:49:27 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 10:50:16 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd 10:51:29 <andythenorth_> about 25% of shop is canned or bottled 10:54:34 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 11:11:07 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd 11:11:13 <andythenorth_> jam 11:11:41 <nielsm> I'd argue jam falls under "cannery" goods 11:13:08 <nielsm> prepare fruit/vegetables, do some kind of cooking/heat treatment, put into sealed vessels ready for retail 11:13:16 *** Thedarkb has joined #openttd 11:16:37 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 11:18:56 <Wolf01> https://tech.slashdot.org/story/18/07/15/0035234/chrome-is-using-10-13-more-ram-to-fight-spectre ha... even more ram 11:21:39 *** Thedarkb has quit IRC 11:21:54 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd 11:22:26 <Alberth> :) 11:24:55 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 11:25:11 *** KouDy has quit IRC 11:31:06 *** KouDy has joined #openttd 11:47:23 <TrueBrain> closing tickets like there is no tomorrow! 11:47:29 <TrueBrain> 2 tickets about BaNaNaS in 1 day \o/ :D 11:49:11 <planetmaker> o/ 11:49:18 <planetmaker> <3 your closing reply, TB :) 11:51:31 <TrueBrain> :) 11:53:12 *** Gja has joined #openttd 11:56:06 <Eddi|zuHause> man, i made this crazy complicated contraption in spacechem, but i need to exactly flip it, to use the other input :/ 11:56:32 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 11:59:22 <Eddi|zuHause> ah, i think i don't need to do that after all 12:00:14 <Eddi|zuHause> now, i got laser and rocket fuel working, just the steering left 12:11:29 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 12:18:19 *** Thedarkb has joined #openttd 12:47:26 *** Thedarkb has quit IRC 12:49:08 *** Cthulhux has joined #openttd 13:04:59 <Eddi|zuHause> bah, i need to get the ratios better... per 2 rocket explosives i need 15 rocket fuel. per 2 rocket explosives i get 4 rocket fuel as byproduct. per 1 laser charge i get 9 rocket explosives (and thus 18 rocket fuel) as byproduct, plus another 6 rocket fuel 13:05:19 <Eddi|zuHause> thus i get a surplus of rocket explosives, and my storage runs full halfway through 13:06:50 <Eddi|zuHause> i need 2:15 but i have 9:24 13:07:17 *** Thedarkb has joined #openttd 13:07:28 <Eddi|zuHause> and i can't put another storage anywhere 13:08:05 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 13:08:10 *** roidal has joined #openttd 13:09:48 <Eddi|zuHause> i think i need to use the laser as waste disposal for the surplus explosives 13:10:53 <Eddi|zuHause> which means i need another reactor, which i can't have 13:11:17 *** RosaElefant has joined #openttd 13:15:13 *** Cthulhux has quit IRC 13:17:09 <andythenorth> hmm 13:17:14 <andythenorth> rocket fuel in FIRS Extreme 13:18:57 *** Thedarkb has quit IRC 13:27:12 <Eddi|zuHause> now i don't think i get enough reactor outputs :/ 13:34:54 *** Wacko1976 has quit IRC 13:40:27 <Eddi|zuHause> i need to completely trash this attempt :/ 13:40:48 <Eddi|zuHause> and i thought i was so close :/ 13:40:58 <Wolf01> I found it difficult even to finish the tutorial 13:41:17 <Eddi|zuHause> this is the last level :/ 13:41:37 <Eddi|zuHause> the tutorial was fine 13:41:53 <Eddi|zuHause> i first ran into trouble by the time they introduced fusion 13:42:00 <Eddi|zuHause> and then polymers 13:42:18 <Eddi|zuHause> and then it went into "completely insane" mode :p 13:43:21 <Alberth> spacenomy 13:45:23 <Eddi|zuHause> and then it introduces a new control node that you facepalm as "well, i could have used that _last_ level" 14:13:48 *** _aD_ has joined #openttd 14:41:20 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 14:42:22 <Eddi|zuHause> so, i'm now at 6 rocket explosives per 1 laser charge 14:42:39 *** Thedarkb has joined #openttd 14:43:29 <Eddi|zuHause> now i need a reaction that collects surplus elements, until a laser charge is available to dispose of them 14:49:51 <SpComb> almost sounds as if you were talking about factorio, but no 14:50:03 <Eddi|zuHause> worse :p 14:50:35 <Eddi|zuHause> imagine factorio, but you are limited to an 8x10 map 14:53:33 <Wolf01> Now I understand why I only played the tutorial last time :P 14:56:21 <andythenorth> why coffee in FIRS, but not tea? 14:57:51 *** KouDy has quit IRC 15:03:17 <Wolf01> Good question 15:07:37 *** gelignite has quit IRC 15:14:31 *** Wacko1976 has joined #openttd 15:15:20 <andythenorth> another way to think about this, which town cargos would look good? 15:15:21 <andythenorth> http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/economies.html#extreme 15:15:57 <andythenorth> currently food is piece, refrigerated, and goes in box trucks or fridge trucks 15:16:16 <andythenorth> now there are 6 cargos that go in box trucks or fridge trucks 15:36:04 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 16:09:46 *** KouDy has joined #openttd 16:16:33 *** KouDy has quit IRC 16:24:29 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 16:31:16 *** Alkel_U3 has joined #openttd 16:32:50 <Alkel_U3> Hello. What the heck happened 2:09 GMT today? 16:40:09 <peter1138> I don't know, what the heck did happen at 2:09 GMT today? 16:42:13 <Wolf01> Did 2:09 GMT happen? 16:44:29 <andythenorth> I think it got missed 16:50:45 *** roidal has quit IRC 16:55:57 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't even know when 2:09GMT was 16:56:03 *** Flygon has quit IRC 16:56:25 <LordAro> pretty sure nothing happened at 0209GMT today 16:56:53 <Eddi|zuHause> i guess that is usually a time where nothing happens anyway 17:10:17 *** Am_ has joined #openttd 17:15:01 *** _aD_ has quit IRC 17:20:12 <snail_UES_> guys, I’m getting a strange bug if I try to start a game with both my trainset and Uwe’s German Road Vehicles set 17:20:24 <snail_UES_> I’m getting an error message such as: “Fatal error : requested GRF ressource not available (sprite 498)” 17:20:52 <snail_UES_> and one of our sets (the one towards the bottom of the newGRF list) gets deactivated 17:21:28 <snail_UES_> I tried running OTTD in debug mode, and I got the following error messages: 17:21:50 <snail_UES_> “ dbg: [grf] [germanrvw.grf:53] ParamSet: GRM: Unable to allocate 1792 sprites; try changing NewGRF order “ <— if I put my trainset first 17:22:09 <snail_UES_> “ dbg: [grf] [fsetw_j.grf:498] ParamSet: GRM: Unable to allocate 8704 sprites; try changing NewGRF order “ <— if I put Uwe’s road vehicle set first 17:22:28 <snail_UES_> I think it’s because we’re both allocating a very large number of recoloring sprites... 17:22:39 <Alberth> sounds likely 17:23:25 <snail_UES_> any ideas on how to fix this? (I mean any idea other than the old “you don’t need all those sprites” story) 17:24:04 <FLHerne> `if (_cur.spriteid + count >= 16384) {` it says 17:24:18 <Eddi|zuHause> snail_UES_: germanrv set reserves a crazy number of sprites for recolouring, i think 17:24:32 <snail_UES_> Eddi|zuHause: yes, and so does mine 17:24:52 <Eddi|zuHause> seems like you hit some kind of limit? 17:24:53 <snail_UES_> but neither of us (and not even the sum) reaches 16,384 17:24:59 <Alberth> Line above says: "Check if the allocated sprites will fit below the original sprite limit " 17:25:44 <frosch123> the baseset sprites also count towards the limit 17:25:55 <frosch123> anyway, 16k recolour sprites is silly 17:26:09 <frosch123> better use multiple stacked sprites with different recolouring 17:26:21 <Eddi|zuHause> limitation disturbs me very sprites... 17:27:47 <Eddi|zuHause> i suppose stacked sprites were not available when snail_UES_ started :p 17:27:57 *** Thedarkb has quit IRC 17:28:17 <snail_UES_> eddi|zuHause: exactly 17:29:06 <snail_UES_> stacked sprites help a lot, but they came into the play fairly recently and I’d have to reprogram large parts of my set to fully use them... 17:29:54 <Eddi|zuHause> should have used a code generator :p 17:30:28 <snail_UES_> it’s not that easy 17:30:41 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: the code generator is named "snail" :) 17:30:46 <andythenorth> disable if german RV set is found? 17:31:10 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: no need for that, the error disables it automatically :p 17:31:21 <frosch123> "can't use imperial german vehicles with imperial french trains"? 17:32:40 <andythenorth> is it potatos or potatoes? 17:32:44 <andythenorth> http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/economies.html#extreme 17:33:01 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i get the impression that potatoes won 17:33:17 <andythenorth> I have a typo then 17:33:34 <Eddi|zuHause> don't take my word for it, though 17:34:08 <andythenorth> it's potatoes 17:34:21 <andythenorth> and is it a greengrocers or a greengrocer's? 17:34:45 <andythenorth> https://wordsgoingwild.blogspot.com/2010/01/greengrocers-apostrophe.html 17:34:50 <Eddi|zuHause> i've never seen anyone use tht word 17:45:00 <peter1138> They barely exist these days :( 17:45:03 <peter1138> Supermarkets killed 'em 17:45:24 <snail_UES_> there still are farmers’ markets though 17:46:15 <snail_UES_> OMG andythenorth, are you adding new cargoes again? :O 17:47:59 <frosch123> more cargo recolourings? 17:48:44 <snail_UES_> \well at least I’m using stacked sprites for those :p 17:48:54 <snail_UES_> more coding work to support them all... 17:51:42 <andythenorth> snail_UES_: someone increased the cargo limit to 64 :P 17:52:02 <snail_UES_> funny 17:52:06 <snail_UES_> so it’s ok to increase cargo limit... 17:52:14 <snail_UES_> but it’s not ok to increase the railtypes limit :D 18:03:23 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd 18:08:42 <Wolf01> Exactly, the boss here is andythenorth 18:10:56 <snail_UES_> I actually feel this is far from a constructive behavior... 18:11:06 <snail_UES_> IMO that’s why people end up playing with patchpacks 18:12:50 <Wolf01> That's even encouraged 18:15:18 <snail_UES_> yes… that’s why I’m going to recommend JGR’s patchpack to play with my set :p 18:16:06 <Wolf01> Fine, supermop recommends NRT to play with trolleybi :P 18:16:53 <Wolf01> BTW /me -> out 18:17:06 <Alberth> bye W 18:26:04 *** Thedarkb has joined #openttd 18:29:12 <andythenorth> snail_UES_: who says it's not ok to increase the railtype limit? o_O 18:29:34 <andythenorth> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/6805 18:30:22 <andythenorth> nobody's approved it mind 18:31:34 <snail_UES_> ok… so what can we do to make this happen? 18:32:16 <andythenorth> my strategy is usually just hope 18:32:19 <andythenorth> and provide humour 18:32:58 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not sure anybody is helped with british humour 18:33:28 <andythenorth> it helps me 18:38:42 *** KouDy has joined #openttd 18:38:45 <peter1138> Hah 18:38:49 *** smoke_fumus has joined #openttd 18:39:09 <peter1138> Clearly no other dev wants it :p 18:40:50 <snail_UES_> looks like there’s little interest in helping newgrf authors :p 18:47:01 <andythenorth> one day someone will get bored and commit it 18:47:20 <andythenorth> and then we'll have a debate about why it was so much fuss 18:47:22 <andythenorth> but eh :P 18:53:36 <andythenorth> maybe nielsm will review it? :) 18:54:40 <snail_UES_> heh, that would be great... 18:55:34 <andythenorth> so new FIRS Extreme snail_UES_ http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/economies.html#extreme 18:55:37 <andythenorth> any requests? o_O 18:55:45 <andythenorth> this is first draft, incomplete 18:55:54 <andythenorth> aim is 'city chaos' 18:56:17 <andythenorth> it seems to be Germany-Poland currently 18:56:17 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i think the typical request of a vehicle set developer is "ZOMG LEAVE IT ALONE ALREADY!!!!" :p 18:56:18 <snail_UES_> andythenorth: the final list of all cargoes and their classes would help a lot :) 18:56:31 <andythenorth> snail_UES_: funny, but come back in 12 months ;) 18:56:35 <snail_UES_> haha 18:56:46 <snail_UES_> I’m all for supporting it, but it needs to be final... 18:56:53 <andythenorth> any french cargos you can suggest? 18:56:58 <andythenorth> I already added fromage 18:57:01 <snail_UES_> I wouldn’t like to spend time coding cargoes that later disappear 18:57:17 <snail_UES_> yes, cheese can be a subset of dairy products I guess 18:57:25 *** glx has joined #openttd 18:57:25 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 18:57:39 <snail_UES_> fruit should go to a distillery as well I think…? 18:57:47 <andythenorth> it might 18:57:48 <Eddi|zuHause> snail_UES_: giant rolls of cheese on a stake wagon? :p 18:57:53 <andythenorth> I considered tobacco 18:57:55 <andythenorth> also 18:57:56 <andythenorth> but no 18:58:41 <snail_UES_> no vehicles? 18:58:52 <andythenorth> traktors 18:58:54 <Eddi|zuHause> i give tobacco another decade or so and it's banned... 18:59:01 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe two 18:59:05 <Eddi|zuHause> but it's clearly coming 18:59:12 <andythenorth> I think it will just get hard to buy 18:59:21 <snail_UES_> andythenorth: tractors in steeltown, right? 18:59:35 <andythenorth> trucks in steeltown 18:59:52 <snail_UES_> for ECS, I coded “vehicles” as many subtypes, distinguishing 4 different carmakers :p 19:00:16 <snail_UES_> but I won’t be able to use it in FIRS, since vehicles are only trucks or tractors... 19:02:31 <nielsm> andythenorth nah I don't feel confident about anything relating to the map array at all, haven't touched any of those parts of the code yet 19:03:12 <andythenorth> maybe I could do this with my van http://www.railpictures.net/photo/664391/ 19:06:16 *** gelignite2nd has joined #openttd 19:07:39 <snail_UES_> nielsm: but it works in JGR patch.. is this a different implementation? 19:08:37 <nielsm> I have no idea 19:08:51 <peter1138> What works in JGR? 19:08:53 <nielsm> if I've ever used JGRs patch it would be like 5-7 years ago 19:09:03 <snail_UES_> 32 railtypes 19:09:05 <nielsm> don't know if it even existed then 19:09:20 <peter1138> Oh, yes, that's a different implementation. 19:09:43 <peter1138> (One that we rejected, though I had (separately) already done it that way) 19:12:05 <LordAro> what was different about it? why was it rejected? 19:12:52 *** gelignite has quit IRC 19:13:17 <peter1138> It's the one that splits the field up. 19:14:27 <andythenorth> oh the untidy bits version? 19:17:49 <LordAro> ah right 19:33:01 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not sure how, but i finally managed to finish this crazy game... 19:34:33 <andythenorth> 👻👍 19:35:11 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, two white blocks back to you, sir. 19:48:58 *** synchris has quit IRC 19:51:41 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: Translation: http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/Screenshot_20180715_215036.png 19:53:39 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 19:55:23 *** JacobD88 has joined #openttd 19:58:50 *** Alberth has left #openttd 20:05:10 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 20:13:31 *** gelignite2nd has quit IRC 20:22:06 *** Thedarkb has quit IRC 20:33:35 *** Thedarkb has joined #openttd 20:39:14 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 20:59:18 *** andythenorth has left #openttd 21:02:00 *** cHawk has joined #openttd 21:17:02 *** Progman has quit IRC 21:19:53 *** Supercheese has quit IRC 21:20:09 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd 21:21:09 *** JacobD88 has quit IRC 21:43:31 *** RafiX has quit IRC 22:00:50 *** snail_UES_ is now known as Guest1209 22:00:50 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 22:04:57 *** cHawk has quit IRC 22:10:52 *** Wacko1976 has quit IRC 22:16:58 *** nielsm has quit IRC 22:18:43 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 22:20:07 *** Thedarkb has quit IRC 22:23:01 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 22:43:48 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 23:02:18 *** KouDy has quit IRC 23:05:17 *** KouDy has joined #openttd 23:15:50 *** KouDy has quit IRC 23:34:48 *** KouDy has joined #openttd 23:43:18 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 23:44:26 *** Thedarkb-X40 has joined #openttd 23:55:35 *** KouDy has quit IRC 23:58:24 *** _aD_ has joined #openttd