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00:01:44 *** tokai has joined #openttd 00:01:44 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 00:08:42 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 00:17:32 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 00:23:04 *** Thedarkb-T60 has quit IRC 00:24:33 *** Thedarkb-X40 has joined #openttd 00:54:32 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT) https://git.io/vhlfg 00:57:53 <Eddi|zuHause> <peter1138> Hmm, why do we need to introduce electrified road and non-electified trams <-- because andy is annoyed of steam trams needing wires 00:58:10 <Eddi|zuHause> and maybe 3 other people :p 00:58:47 <Eddi|zuHause> also, trolleybusses which might be slightly higher requested :) 00:59:43 <peter1138> I think it's acceptable to require a NewGRF provide the extras. 00:59:55 <peter1138> And preferable. 01:00:38 <Eddi|zuHause> i think the precedence here is that openttd provides tram rails by default even though it doesn't provide any trams 01:00:52 <peter1138> Yes but that's historical 01:01:54 <peter1138> Well, I'll figure something out, but I dislike it. 01:02:03 <peter1138> Anyway, night night. 01:02:06 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm fine with not providing them 01:02:36 <Eddi|zuHause> and andy probably went back and forth on this :p 01:09:49 *** Thedarkb-X40 has quit IRC 01:19:02 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 01:29:59 <Samu> gonna do what andythenorth asked 01:30:18 <Samu> i really have a tendency to put everything in the same pr 01:43:21 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick opened pull request #7194: Fix: Remove desert around lakes upon generation. https://git.io/fhHqA 01:52:35 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7073: Feature: Generate lock ready rivers upon world generation https://git.io/fhuqz 01:57:05 *** Thedarkb-X40 has joined #openttd 02:16:03 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick opened pull request #7195: Change: Don't build town bridges in possible lock locations. https://git.io/fhHmC 02:16:31 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 02:24:42 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 02:38:19 *** Thedarkb-X40 has quit IRC 02:52:24 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 02:54:10 *** Mazur has joined #openttd 02:56:20 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7073: Feature: Generate lock ready rivers upon world generation https://git.io/fhuqz 03:03:37 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #7073: Feature: Generate lock ready rivers upon world generation https://git.io/fhHmo 03:19:13 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7084: Change: AI/GS Config GUI overhaul https://git.io/fh2dV 03:21:24 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7158: Add: Client setting gui.start_spectator https://git.io/fhSk4 03:33:03 *** Samu has quit IRC 03:36:19 *** D-HUND has joined #openttd 03:36:43 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #7195: Change: Don't build town bridges in possible lock locations. https://git.io/fhHYe 03:39:39 *** debdog has quit IRC 03:55:56 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 04:13:49 *** glx has quit IRC 06:30:51 *** keoz has joined #openttd 06:42:22 <peter1138> mrningo 07:08:59 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7195: Change: Don't build town bridges in possible lock locations. https://git.io/fhHOo 07:26:53 <peter1138> Hmm, maybe I should squash some of these commits. 07:32:06 * Sacro squashes peter1138 07:36:40 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 07:37:28 <peter1138> Hmm, roadtypes only have powered_roadtypes, not compatible_roadtypes 07:37:30 <andythenorth> peter1138: the inclusion of ELRD, ROAD etc was frosch decision 07:37:37 <andythenorth> to keep parity with railtypes etc 07:37:40 <peter1138> I guess they are the same for RVs 07:37:59 <peter1138> andythenorth, sure, I don't like it so I removed them :p 07:38:37 <peter1138> NewGRFs can provide them. 07:39:11 <andythenorth> wfm 07:40:08 <peter1138> It's a separate commit at the moment and I'm not going to squash it all until later. 07:40:21 <peter1138> So easy to undo if concensus is it's utterly necessary. 07:42:28 <peter1138> Oh look it crashed due to a negated test, maybe I should check the assertion is valid... 07:43:14 <peter1138> Does Road Hog 1.4.1 support the NRT stuffs? 07:43:25 <andythenorth> no there's a branched version 07:43:36 <peter1138> Ok, i've got that too, just it's older. 07:44:10 <andythenorth> there are multiple other grfs, vehicles and roads 07:50:57 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth closed pull request #7195: Change: Don't build town bridges in possible lock locations. https://git.io/fhHmC 07:51:33 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #7195: Change: Don't build town bridges in possible lock locations. https://git.io/fhH3O 07:54:18 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on issue #5654: Visibility of companies on graphs is not saved in game https://git.io/fhH3G 07:55:25 <peter1138> andythenorth, added a new tag for #7195 07:57:54 <andythenorth> ok 07:58:21 <andythenorth> now that 2.0 isn't NRT 07:58:28 <andythenorth> maybe we should fix water stuff in 2.0 :P 08:11:12 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest495 08:11:12 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 08:11:33 <peter1138> Is it not? 08:11:43 <peter1138> I mean, it's just my opinion we should get NRT out sooner rather than later. 08:12:17 <peter1138> So, town road types. 08:12:48 <andythenorth> huzzah 08:12:57 <andythenorth> road types that towns can build? 08:13:17 <peter1138> As in, not always the first road type. 08:13:30 <peter1138> First available would be good. 08:15:14 <Eddi|zuHause> newgrf property? 08:16:09 *** Guest495 has quit IRC 08:16:16 <peter1138> Should it be? 08:17:29 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm thinking something like: roadtype must have "town can use this" flag, pick the fastest, and among those the newest 08:17:36 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Gabda87 updated pull request #7192: Change: making the style of MakeVoid calls uniform https://git.io/fhHUg 08:18:04 <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds like it should be a "Cleanup:" 08:18:10 *** Thedarkb-T60 has joined #openttd 08:18:22 <peter1138> Fastest... maybe depending on zone. 08:18:49 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT) https://git.io/vhlfg 08:25:30 <andythenorth> biab and stuff 08:25:32 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 08:26:17 *** Thedarkb-T60 has quit IRC 08:48:52 *** keoz has quit IRC 09:03:50 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 09:03:58 *** Thedarkb-T60 has joined #openttd 09:13:42 *** chomwitt has joined #openttd 10:33:38 <peter1138> So. 10:34:44 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0 https://git.io/fhHZQ 10:36:37 <LordAro> it has come to this 10:40:45 <peter1138> Hmm, so the AI interface for roads will need to change. 10:40:54 <peter1138> This is kinda awkward :( 10:41:08 <peter1138> Can we have functions with optional parameters in squirrel land? 10:42:59 <LordAro> nope 10:43:34 <LordAro> squirrel functions themselves can have optional params, but the interface cannot 10:43:59 <LordAro> (see the recent samu change for AIBridge.GetName) 10:45:15 <peter1138> Ah, so you need to create a compat function which calls the new method. 10:45:21 <peter1138> That's not so bad. 10:46:01 <peter1138> It's unfortunate that NRT is split into road and tram types. 10:56:58 <peter1138> The whole RTID is a bit pants, tbh. 10:58:42 <andythenorth> rewrite it? o_O 10:58:49 <andythenorth> nobody's emotionally attached 10:59:04 <andythenorth> the nice thing about a long-running fork is that stuff can be tried, then binned 11:02:19 <Eddi|zuHause> <peter1138> It's unfortunate that NRT is split into road and tram types. <-- the other option of freely combinable types might require 3 types on the same tile in some usecases 11:06:41 *** m3henry has joined #openttd 11:32:27 *** keoz has joined #openttd 11:32:56 <andythenorth> why is it so cold 11:32:59 <andythenorth> ? 11:34:39 *** m3henry has quit IRC 11:36:22 <Eddi|zuHause> global warming? 11:38:52 *** Thedarkb-T60 has quit IRC 11:41:38 <planetmaker> :) 11:52:03 <peter1138> Wet and windy here. 11:55:15 <peter1138> Damn, how can these Tesco granola squares be so high in calories? 11:57:51 *** Thedarkb-T60 has joined #openttd 11:59:55 <Eddi|zuHause> the brain is incapable of correctly estimating the calorie content of foods that contain both fats and carbohydrates 12:05:55 <peter1138> Mine, certainly. 12:08:25 <planetmaker> Are there things which naturally contain both approx. equally? 12:08:41 <Eddi|zuHause> no, that's the reason why it's so difficult 12:08:50 <planetmaker> almonds? 12:09:22 <peter1138> fats not carbs. 12:09:46 <planetmaker> nuts seem to contain both 12:09:55 <planetmaker> but I can't think of anything else 12:10:39 <Eddi|zuHause> "Fett 53.020 mg, Kohlenhydrate 5.677 mg" <- i wouldn't call that "equal" 12:10:51 <peter1138> Yeah, they are low carb. 12:11:07 <planetmaker> hazelnut: 9 grams fat, 6 grams carbs from 28g total 12:11:21 <planetmaker> depends a bit at which nut type you look 12:11:46 <peter1138> Are they flavoured or something? 12:12:59 <Eddi|zuHause> dunno where you get your values from, my source says "Fett 63.300 mg, Kohlenhydrate 5.970 mg" 12:13:09 <Eddi|zuHause> per 100g 12:13:24 <peter1138> Er... 12:13:32 <peter1138> Bit more than that per 100g 12:13:57 <Eddi|zuHause> . being thousand separator 12:13:58 <planetmaker> random internet :P 12:14:06 <peter1138> Oh... right. 12:14:22 <planetmaker> https://projekte.uni-hohenheim.de/wwwin140/info/interaktives/lebensmittel.htm gives 60:10 12:14:24 <peter1138> But yes, that's low in carbs. 12:14:24 <planetmaker> well 12:14:59 <planetmaker> ok, so it's unnatural to have both 12:15:10 <peter1138> Avocado is quite high in both. 12:15:43 <Eddi|zuHause> but evolution of mankind didn't really happen in the same places as avocados 12:16:24 <peter1138> 14g fat, 8.5g carb in 100g avocado. Not exactly high, actually. 12:16:37 <Eddi|zuHause> and even if you find that one food that actually does contain both, it's certainly not a stock food in most natural diets 12:17:02 <peter1138> And then there's cake. 12:17:19 <Eddi|zuHause> and then the cake was a lie 12:17:33 <planetmaker> the naturally occuring cake tree :P 12:17:55 <Eddi|zuHause> *this was a triumph* 12:18:15 <Eddi|zuHause> *i'm making a note here: huge success* 12:20:12 <peter1138> One of the few games I actually completed. 12:21:39 <peter1138> So anyway, I took only half of a granola bar with me... 12:22:02 <peter1138> It's now tiny, of course, and still super bad, but still. 12:22:09 <Eddi|zuHause> how do you take half of a packaged food? 12:22:24 <planetmaker> *nom nom* :P 12:22:29 <peter1138> I get a knife 12:22:33 <peter1138> And then cut it. 12:22:42 <peter1138> It was a 4 pack, and it was in the freezer. 12:22:49 <Eddi|zuHause> whenever i open a package of anything, it's immediately empty 12:22:56 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know how 12:23:18 <peter1138> I couldn't do that with this, it'd be nearly the recommended daily amount in one sitting :p 12:23:44 <Eddi|zuHause> it's not helped by the fact that the larger packages are technically cheaper per gram 12:24:19 <Eddi|zuHause> but because they're also not lasting longer than the small packages, it's not really cheaper 12:24:27 <peter1138> Yes 12:46:40 *** Mahjong2 has joined #openttd 12:54:09 *** Mahjong1 has quit IRC 13:07:43 <peter1138> w/win 36 13:11:15 *** Flygon has quit IRC 13:22:09 *** MasseR has quit IRC 13:22:19 *** milek7 has quit IRC 13:22:39 *** MasseR has joined #openttd 13:24:35 *** milek7 has joined #openttd 13:24:40 *** Samu has joined #openttd 13:24:58 <Samu> hi 13:26:14 <peter1138> Samu samu 13:26:26 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 13:27:34 <Samu> eh, well 13:27:41 <Samu> you just ruined my other pr 13:27:49 <Samu> Eddi|zuHause: 13:28:21 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause YOU EVIL 13:28:38 <Eddi|zuHause> i what? 13:29:03 <peter1138> Ruining Samu's other PRs, I dunno... 13:29:13 <Samu> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7073 i separated it into its own PR 13:29:20 <Samu> just so it could be closed :) 13:29:49 <peter1138> 7073 is more reasonable. 13:30:01 <peter1138> I haven't look in detail though. 13:31:22 <peter1138> *looked 13:31:44 <Eddi|zuHause> that would make it even more important to split it off the other pr 13:31:48 <peter1138> Quite. 13:31:50 *** m3henry has joined #openttd 13:32:20 *** m3henry has quit IRC 13:34:04 <Samu> it's missing an arm now 13:40:07 <Samu> it's kind of pointless to leave it open now 13:40:13 <Samu> RIP another feature 13:40:23 <peter1138> They are unrelated. 13:40:28 <peter1138> Not totally 13:40:31 <peter1138> But still . 13:42:50 <peter1138> The thing with the rejected PR is a player simply needs to destroy the bridge themselves. 13:46:04 <Samu> hmm that could make towns look disconnected 13:46:35 <peter1138> It's the same end result. 13:47:02 <peter1138> What next, don't expand where a station could be built? 13:48:19 *** Thedarkb-T60 has quit IRC 13:52:47 <andythenorth> didn't I close the PR for not building docks where a ship might go? 13:53:28 <peter1138> This was the blocking-town-growth-where-locks-could-possibly-be-built PR. 13:53:31 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 13:53:40 *** Thedarkb-T60 has joined #openttd 13:55:28 <andythenorth> yes but no but 13:55:50 <andythenorth> hmm, 4 hours is long enough to avoid javascript for 13:55:53 <andythenorth> now I have to do it 13:59:37 *** Lejving has quit IRC 14:00:43 *** Lejving has joined #openttd 14:09:17 *** rocky11384497 has quit IRC 14:16:30 <peter1138> I guess towns never need to build trams? :p 14:19:37 <Samu> no 14:19:57 <Samu> because the town growth algorithm was taking care of it 14:20:28 <Samu> if a player manually destroy bridges, it may end up becoming disconnected 14:21:04 <Samu> it is always connected if it's done by the growth algorithm 14:22:44 <Samu> anyway, the reason I split was because andythenorth requested it 14:23:14 <Samu> for me it was one of those PR cases where they make no sense separated 14:23:39 <andythenorth> it makes no sense to nerf towns whilst changing river slopes :) 14:23:44 <andythenorth> nobody's going to approve that :) 14:25:11 <Samu> then why did you request it? 14:25:24 <Samu> could have just said no 14:25:37 <andythenorth> where did I request nerfing towns? :o 14:26:24 <Samu> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7073#pullrequestreview-194382683 14:28:17 <andythenorth> oic 14:33:37 *** m3henry has joined #openttd 14:40:18 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 14:40:41 *** octernion has joined #openttd 14:45:28 <peter1138> Samu, the point is seperate PR for separate things. 14:45:42 <peter1138> Samu, unfortunately you don't yet seem to be aware of when something is separate or not. 14:46:06 <peter1138> Samu, andythenorth didn't specifically request a PR for that feature, not did he not request it. 14:46:23 <peter1138> Samu, having it as a separate PR allows it to be evaluated on its own merits properly. 14:46:54 <peter1138> *separate 14:47:12 <andythenorth> I was providing advice on how to get 7073 through 14:47:21 <andythenorth> it's got no chance if it includes a town nerf 14:47:34 <peter1138> ^^ 14:49:04 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 14:49:54 <m3henry> Towns are underpowered? 14:51:04 <Samu> well 14:51:07 <Samu> just close it 14:51:20 <peter1138> It already is. 14:51:26 <Samu> the original 14:51:28 <Samu> 7073 14:51:33 <peter1138> 7073 isn't rejected. 14:51:42 <Samu> you rejected its arm 14:51:49 <Samu> very much pointless now 14:51:52 <peter1138> We rejected the town nerf. 14:52:21 <peter1138> 7073 is still open pending review. 14:52:46 <peter1138> You seem to have a very much "all-or-nothing" approach. 14:55:05 <andythenorth> I don't understand why refusing to nerf towns prevents fixing locks 14:55:18 <andythenorth> the problems with locks are almost entirely disconnected 14:55:42 <Samu> I was garanteeing the entire river being traversable by just building locks on slopes 14:55:57 <Samu> now, town bridges get in the way 14:56:10 <peter1138> And that isn't an aim we wish to persue. 14:56:29 <andythenorth> there are multiple other approaches we could take 14:56:31 <peter1138> But improving generation of rivers is separate. 14:56:34 <andythenorth> - 1 tile locks 14:56:43 <andythenorth> - traversable rapids for some ship types 14:56:58 <andythenorth> - changing river generation 14:57:26 <peter1138> And 7073 is the latter, now that it doesn't contain unrelated town nerfs. 14:58:01 <Eddi|zuHause> the way i see it, this generally increased the chance of 7073 getting approved... 15:01:49 <Samu> even if locks were 1 tile only, towns could still get in the way 15:01:58 <Samu> town bridges* 15:02:25 <Samu> locks can't be built under a bridge 15:02:42 <nielsm> doesn't that happen in reality too? 15:02:57 <m3henry> Well perhaps allowing locks under bridges would be a better solution 15:02:57 *** supermop_work has joined #openttd 15:03:00 <nielsm> towns build something and then 20 years down the line it turns out it was a bad idea? 15:03:20 <nielsm> and now that thing can't be torn down because something else depends on it 15:03:33 <nielsm> and then you just have to work around it and make a less optimal solution to the new problem 15:03:34 <supermop_work> sounds normal 15:04:11 *** supermop_work_ has joined #openttd 15:04:41 <nielsm> "towns may not do anything ever that may potentially at some point in the future slightly inveoncenience a player" is a bad outset 15:05:16 <nielsm> towns in the game are not a simple beneficiary to companies, they are just as much an enemy you have to barter with 15:06:03 <Samu> why do rivers exist? 15:06:22 <nielsm> because someone thought it would be fun to implement them in ttdpatch many years ago 15:06:37 <andythenorth> then I drew some sprites for ottd 15:06:37 <nielsm> they weren't in the original game 15:06:39 <andythenorth> they're kind of crap 15:07:10 <peter1138> Rivers exist to be an obstacle :p 15:07:19 <andythenorth> I just bulldoze them 15:07:28 <peter1138> You monster! 15:07:32 *** synchris has joined #openttd 15:07:35 <peter1138> Flowing rivers, clearly. 15:07:38 <nielsm> yeah rivers are more of an obstacle than ever useful imo 15:07:57 <nielsm> if they were generated wider and had flow they'd be interesting gameplay elements 15:08:01 <Samu> the pr was a way to make rivers more interesting 15:08:17 <nielsm> no it was a way to make towns less interesting 15:08:19 <andythenorth> they need to start at coast and work up 15:08:30 <andythenorth> seed should be estuary point, not spring 15:08:39 <andythenorth> engineer for the result, not mimicking reality 15:09:07 <peter1138> pick both and make them join. 15:09:13 <peter1138> preferably terraforming along the way 15:09:46 <peter1138> Do rivery things such as joining and (rarely) splitting. 15:09:57 <Eddi|zuHause> there's loads of different and conflicting ways to approach rivers 15:10:01 <peter1138> m8 is probably useful. 15:10:06 <andythenorth> it's just a graph 15:10:09 <Samu> it would make towns more interesting for me 15:10:16 <andythenorth> there's even algorithms for river basins :P 15:10:22 <Samu> i could actually have boats going on their rivers 15:10:30 <peter1138> You still can. 15:10:32 <Eddi|zuHause> "graph" is an incredibly infinite characteristic :p 15:10:34 <andythenorth> find a tile, pre-generate n branches 15:10:43 <peter1138> You just need to remove any bridges that happen to be in the way. 15:10:51 <andythenorth> repeat, building up, until all branches are built as high as they can go 15:11:37 *** supermop_work has quit IRC 15:11:40 <Samu> but that may end disconnecting a town :| 15:11:44 <Samu> road wise 15:12:07 <nielsm> yes it turns out writing a good ai that mimicks intelligent players is hard 15:12:23 <nielsm> an intelligent player will make sure the town remains connected 15:12:45 <nielsm> (unless it would benefit them to break up the town, for whatever reason) 15:12:47 <Samu> I tested the growth 15:12:48 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: a simple tree, n branches at level 1, each branch has n branches 15:12:51 <Samu> with the bridge nerf 15:13:03 <Samu> it was still fine 15:13:10 <Samu> there were still bridges being made 15:13:10 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: trees are not significantly less infinite 15:13:13 <peter1138> I think m3henry probably has the simplest solution. 15:13:20 <andythenorth> delete? 15:13:21 <peter1138> Allow locks under bridges. 15:13:28 <Samu> just not in those situations where a lock could be placed 15:13:35 <andythenorth> well that solves a minor issue 15:13:35 <Samu> the growth would turn around somewhere else 15:13:44 <Samu> the town would always look connected even with the nerf 15:13:53 <peter1138> andythenorth, very minor. 15:15:21 <Eddi|zuHause> while for most people it seems to be a minor issue, at least one person thinks it's the end of the world... (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sonLd-32ns4) 15:15:45 <m3henry> oh god no 15:15:56 <peter1138> andythenorth, and it's probably a 2-liner. 15:16:15 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: i'm sensing clipping/bounding box issues 15:16:23 <andythenorth> more than already? 15:16:27 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, more. 15:16:33 <andythenorth> it's probably solved in JGR already 15:16:47 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think that's how JGR works :p 15:17:14 <peter1138> /* Disallow crossing bridges for the time being */ 15:17:19 <peter1138> I love that comment. 15:17:40 <Eddi|zuHause> well, we certainly discussed that back then :p 15:17:55 <peter1138> It worked. 15:17:58 <FLHerne> There was a patch that created 'valleys' for rivers, where they were mostly 1 level below the surrounding ground 15:18:04 <FLHerne> (not the rainfall thing) 15:18:09 <Eddi|zuHause> it was mostly a "we don't want to bother with the graphical issues" 15:18:20 <peter1138> yeah 15:18:26 <peter1138> newgrf bridges was going to be a thing 15:18:27 <FLHerne> That made them a lot less ugly/painful, because you could build flat bridges across them in most cases 15:18:31 <andythenorth> rainfall rivers :P 15:18:33 <peter1138> I had a spec for it and working code... 15:18:44 <andythenorth> I did try making rivers flow from coast up 15:18:58 <FLHerne> andythenorth: https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=71970 15:19:01 <andythenorth> I would say I failed https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9261/rivers_go_up.png 15:19:12 <andythenorth> rainfall rivers seemed to be boiling the ocean iirc 15:19:20 <FLHerne> I liked the idea, but could never get that patch to actually generate something I liked 15:19:41 <FLHerne> Er, yeah, that doesn't look too successful 15:19:52 <m3henry> Oh man 15:19:58 <peter1138> The fact the patch has a manual... 15:20:00 <m3henry> Transcontinental rivers 15:20:23 <FLHerne> I do like its thing where rivers get bigger toward the sea 15:20:25 <Eddi|zuHause> "back when i dabbled in river generation (that was even before the current river generator was implemented) i found the river placement too restrictive. rivers should be able to be placed on any slope." <-- i think that still applies 15:20:44 <FLHerne> Having every single river be a negligible 1-tile squiggle is dull 15:20:48 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: a river is just a recursive tree, with occasional random direction change, and you like recursive trees.... 15:21:17 <andythenorth> rivers should be able to go on slopes, canals even more so, but frosch points out that it won't work due to trackbits 15:21:23 <andythenorth> ships will fall off tiles 15:21:40 <andythenorth> same reason we don't have station on slopes perpendicular 15:21:51 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the problem is not the river being a tree (which is not technically a representation of real rivers, anyway), but the tree being "embedded" in a different graph 15:22:04 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: and this embedding thing is the hard part 15:22:13 <andythenorth> which is the different graph? o_O 15:22:52 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: in hardware design they have algorithms to route the "cables" through the chips in layers, splitting, and stuff. 15:23:50 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the naive approach to that is "spanning trees", the more sophisticated is "steiner trees", but it makes the optimizations vastly more complicated 15:24:54 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steiner_tree_problem 15:25:32 <andythenorth> we probably talk at cross-purposes :) 15:25:33 <andythenorth> or not 15:25:37 <andythenorth> can't tell 15:26:33 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: you can apply the steiner tree problem to river generation, if you generate N springs and M sinks 15:27:01 <andythenorth> and then you're assuming pathfinding from one to the other? 15:27:01 <Eddi|zuHause> to make each spring connect to at least one sink, and merges somewhere in the middle 15:27:05 <andythenorth> right 15:27:06 <andythenorth> yes 15:27:16 <andythenorth> then the tiles are a walk along the pathfinder 15:27:49 <Eddi|zuHause> it's more complex than simple pathfinding, because the merging point can be moved 15:28:01 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, yup, the ship is drawn over the bridge:p 15:28:43 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: doesn't surprise me at all :) 15:29:02 <andythenorth> I would generate M sinks, and each sink tries to create N springs, where N is local to that sink 15:29:09 <andythenorth> but eh 15:30:35 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: that might be simpler, but it might cause intersections 15:30:59 <Eddi|zuHause> as you have no geographical limitation of the springs 15:31:06 <peter1138> Damn, 270KB for that rivers_v61 15:31:42 <peter1138> Maybe we should take a look. 15:32:50 <peter1138> Lots of patches. 15:33:16 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: pathfind forward, don't join to another river? 15:34:50 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: ic111 said something like he considered turning it into PRs (starting with a simple dropdown for river generator selection) but then didn't have time due to work/life stuff 15:35:58 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: that statement makes no sense 15:37:45 <nielsm> split the terrain generator into a wholly separate program! 15:37:50 <nielsm> MAKE IT SCRIPTABLE! 15:37:56 <nielsm> NoTG 15:38:39 <Eddi|zuHause> nielsm: i imagine that's not actually that hard 15:39:00 <andythenorth> NoFixTropic 15:39:01 <andythenorth> NFT 15:39:51 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the youtube approach: "there is nothing broken with our algorithm" 15:39:51 <peter1138> I have a separate program for it :D 15:41:14 <peter1138> Who decided to ditch png 32bpp graphics? 15:41:17 <peter1138> It was me, right? 15:47:58 <nielsm> hmm, idea on how maybe tg can be fixed for tropic: generate two variations of the landscape settings chosen, one for mountaineous terrain and one for very flat, generate two maps with the settings (same seed), then select a line through the center of the map and make one half the flat version and the other half the mountain version 15:48:04 <nielsm> maybe with some interpolation between 15:48:28 <nielsm> (the original tropical generator always splits the map north/south iirc) 15:51:18 <andythenorth> just using the temperate generator 'fixes' tropic :P 15:51:19 <andythenorth> iirc 15:51:45 <nielsm> isn't the problem with tropic that it occasionally generates too little or too much desert? 15:52:08 <andythenorth> iirc, the problem is that there's a transform somewhere that dumps the entire map to be flat 15:52:17 <andythenorth> it moves all tile heights down 15:52:23 <peter1138> My standalone generator created several maps and combined them all. 15:52:32 <peter1138> s/maps/noise maps/ 15:52:57 <peter1138> Ends up with bits being smooth, other bits being rough... 15:53:07 *** Thedarkb-T60 has quit IRC 15:53:24 <peter1138> You can use the noise in the rough map to create rocks etc. 15:54:22 <Eddi|zuHause> nielsm: part of the problem is that TGP adds an additional step to flatten the landscape in order to create more desert. this step is apparently a step too far. i think it should probably have been removed with the variety distribution, as it is a similar thing 15:54:24 <andythenorth> https://www.redblobgames.com/x/1723-procedural-river-growing/ 15:54:47 <peter1138> variety distribution needs to be reworked as well, though. 15:55:27 <peter1138> Maybe we should generate a heightmap around rivers. 15:55:28 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: that doesn't address the rectangularness of the map 15:55:30 <peter1138> Rivers-first. 15:55:30 <nielsm> what does variety distribution even mean? 15:55:45 <nielsm> (in this context) 15:55:46 <peter1138> nielsm, it means the map isn't the same all over. 15:55:51 <andythenorth> it means you get to spend time clicking on settings 15:55:55 <andythenorth> wondering what they do 15:55:56 <peter1138> That too. 15:56:05 <Eddi|zuHause> nielsm: it's an additional overlay function that flattens parts of the map, so it's not uniformly hilly when zoomed out 15:56:08 <peter1138> However it was done badly. 15:56:10 <peter1138> By me. 15:56:26 <andythenorth> MVP :P 15:56:28 <peter1138> It goes too far, it ends up being mostly flat :/ 15:56:56 <peter1138> Maybe it just needs a better way to pick variation to even it out a bit. 15:57:06 <peter1138> Also it goes wrong on long thin maps, unless that was fixed. 15:57:19 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think it was 16:01:56 *** Thedarkb-T60 has joined #openttd 16:06:09 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: so at a quick glance, the general approach of that algorithm might work, if you add some complications for using rectangles instead of triangles. you assign this river flow number and a direction to each tile this way, and then set a threshold for placing an actual river tile (this might be similar to the rainfall generator) 16:06:43 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 16:07:26 <andythenorth> obviously my interest was that it started from coast, rather than the details of the algorithm :P 16:08:59 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the foundation of the algorithm is a semi-randomized BFS 16:09:14 <andythenorth> breadth-first search? 16:09:19 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 16:18:44 <m3henry> Woo, another quality blog to put in my RSS reader 16:20:32 <peter1138> https://simblob.blogspot.com/2018/11/mapgen4.html 16:20:36 <peter1138> Just take that ;p 16:21:49 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: again, not really appropriate for a rectangular/manhattan distance map 16:22:15 <peter1138> They never are. 16:22:37 <Eddi|zuHause> (you get this problem a lot, where a solution to arbitrary geometric shapes becomes NP-hard if you want to apply it to a quantised grid) 16:23:00 *** Progman has joined #openttd 16:25:38 <andythenorth> https://www.quantamagazine.org/a-universal-law-for-the-blood-of-the-earth-20181128/ 16:27:42 <peter1138> 18mph 16:27:48 <peter1138> Gusting to 40mph 16:27:54 <peter1138> This could be an interesting ride home... 16:29:58 *** octernion has quit IRC 16:31:30 <andythenorth> wind at your back? 16:33:42 <peter1138> Partially, but gusts are gusts. 16:35:21 *** Gabda has joined #openttd 16:37:03 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, could be the basis of a heightmap type thing. 16:37:14 <peter1138> But until we have cliffs... meh... 16:37:59 <Gabda> hi 16:38:24 *** Thedarkb-T60 has quit IRC 16:41:26 <Gabda> i'd like to ask for some guthub untagging 16:41:35 <Gabda> wip from https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7120 16:41:46 <Gabda> stale from https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/5654 16:42:34 <Gabda> nielsm: thanks 16:44:57 <Samu> nice fix 16:45:40 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 16:47:31 *** Thedarkb-T60 has joined #openttd 16:53:13 *** Gja has joined #openttd 16:55:22 *** quiznilo has quit IRC 16:55:24 *** octernion has joined #openttd 16:56:03 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 17:02:21 <Samu> i got a patch about waterborne industries 17:02:32 <Samu> gonna be rejected i bet 17:03:04 <Samu> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=77199&p=1193646&hilit=waterborne#p1193646 17:03:44 <Samu> "Allow company owned stations to serve water industries" - When enabled, industries with attached stations (such as Oil Rigs) may also be served by company owned stations built nearby. When disabled, these industries may only be served by their attached stations, and any nearby company stations won't be able to serve them. 17:03:48 <Samu> very much this 17:05:46 *** quiznilo has joined #openttd 17:06:21 <Samu> any quick veredict before I commit too much into a PR? 17:10:23 <Samu> it would prevent much of st2 servers enforcings only ships carrying waterborne cargo 17:10:41 <Samu> would be a simple game setting 17:15:44 <nielsm> I'm not against the idea of it 17:17:14 <Samu> hmm 17:17:23 <Samu> ok 17:17:42 <Samu> you rejected the exclusive part though, i think it was you 17:19:06 <nielsm> it would have to be done differently 17:20:16 <Samu> gonna see if the implementation still makes sense without it 17:20:16 <nielsm> exclusive rights with neutral stations should instead mean that only vehicles belonging to the exclusive rights company can load cargo at neutral stations (and yes, industry stations should then receive the industry cargo) 17:21:35 <Samu> but only the vehicle that bought the exclusive right 17:21:42 <Samu> wonder if I can do that 17:22:20 <Samu> perhaps i should do that first 17:22:56 <nielsm> in other words, exclusive rights should still be meaningful 17:24:12 <Samu> i'm gonna have to mess with cargo graph, cargo dist and all that, oh boy 17:24:33 <Samu> linkgraph 17:28:18 <nielsm> okay looking through the patch file, it's another of those pervasive adding-an-extremely-specific-flag-parameter-everywhere type things 17:29:02 <nielsm> the kind that just explodes the cyclomatic complexity for small gain 17:29:10 <Samu> uh oh 17:31:14 <nielsm> I'd rather special-case industry-owned neutral stations versus player-owned regular stations and make them collect their acceptance differently 17:38:29 <nielsm> a slightly different way of explaining my issue with the approach is that it's a single, localized concern spreading a root network across a large part of the code base, tangling it in everywhere, exactly the definition of spaghetti code 17:38:48 <nielsm> long strands of separate concerns tangled together 17:47:50 <peter1138> I untangled some special-casing of road type 'ROAD' in NRT. 17:48:00 <peter1138> Special casing to make it always available... 17:48:20 <peter1138> Or we can just set the introduced year property to 0 and that'll do the same, with no special casing. 17:48:37 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 17:49:41 <nielsm> the best special case is the one that's not special at all, but just an application of a general rule 17:50:09 <nielsm> the second best is very pinpoint in implementation and easy to discover the existence and impact of 17:51:29 <peter1138> Hmm, there's already a bridge/ship glitch :/ 17:53:07 <Samu> do you refer to addaccepted cargo proc with the on_water parameters? 17:53:11 <Samu> hmm 17:53:15 <Wolf01> o/ 17:53:52 <nielsm> Samu yes, and my implication is that the patch as it stands should be scrapped and the idea implemented again in a different way 17:54:19 <Samu> it's happening during tileloop. it's the tiles themselves that look for nearby stations around 17:54:24 <Samu> not the station 17:55:27 <Samu> hmm, 17:55:50 <Wolf01> peter1138: you should give a try to astroneer, they released the stable, such shiny very wow 17:57:06 <Samu> maybe there is another way 18:00:25 <peter1138> Looks somewhat different. 18:00:38 <Wolf01> Just a bit... :P 18:00:51 *** cHawk has quit IRC 18:02:54 <Wolf01> They changed a lot of mechanics and added some new stuff, like a tractor with trailer to move things around in the early stage, the solar panel array which takes a lot of space, the ability to print the habitat, it's RTG and the oxygen extractor 18:03:56 <Eddi|zuHause> <peter1138> Hmm, there's already a bridge/ship glitch :/ <-- ships are generally the glitchiest part of the game 18:04:13 <Eddi|zuHause> because their bounding boxes are all wrong 18:05:09 <Wolf01> That's because nobody loves ships :( 18:05:20 <Eddi|zuHause> if you make the bounding boxes smaller, there will be cases where the ship is drawn in the wrong place, and if you make it larger, there will be more cases where the alrogithm is triggering undefined behaviour 18:05:22 <andythenorth> ships are the worst 18:05:44 <Eddi|zuHause> ship must be made of several smaller bounding boxes that move in parallel 18:05:56 <Eddi|zuHause> somewhat like CETS vehicles 18:06:19 <Wolf01> Articulated ships 18:07:39 <Wolf01> What happened to sliced trains instead? 18:07:58 <Eddi|zuHause> nothing happened to it? 18:08:23 <Wolf01> Yeah, "nothing" 18:08:55 <Eddi|zuHause> CETS demonstrated the concept, and to my knowledge MB somewhat adapted it to DBSet 0.9 18:09:31 <Wolf01> Mmmh, I'm lagging a bit... 1.7s 18:09:39 <Eddi|zuHause> 68ms 18:12:32 <nielsm> spamtime, sry :) 18:12:33 <nielsm> Samu: my idea would be to first modify station_cmd.cpp:UpdateStationAcceptance so it checks whether the station is an industry or player station, if it's an industry station then it just blindly accepts whatever the industry it belongs to accepts, if it's a player station it proceeds as normal. 18:12:33 <nielsm> second part is to modify industry_cmd.cpp:AddAcceptedCargo_Industry such that industry tiles belonging to an industry that has its own station never have any regular acceptance. 18:12:33 <nielsm> third part is to modify industry_cmd.cpp:TransportIndustryGoods so industries with their own station only deliver production to that station and no other. 18:12:34 <nielsm> last is to modify economy.cpp:DeliverGoodsToIndustry such that deliveries to industry stations can only go to the owning industry, and deliveries to player stations can only go to industries without own stations. 18:13:03 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Gabda87 commented on issue #7166: Inconsistency in closest town calculation with threshold https://git.io/fhHRX 18:13:04 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Gabda87 closed issue #7166: Inconsistency in closest town calculation with threshold https://git.io/fhSzS 18:13:35 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 18:14:44 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 18:15:50 <Wolf01> Something un-broke, 120ms stable now 18:17:00 *** octernion has quit IRC 18:24:01 <Samu> crap, 10 failed hunks, much has changed since then and now 18:26:54 <nielsm> may as well do it over, right? 18:28:38 <peter1138> I lost count of how many times I rewrote newstations. 18:30:19 *** octernion has joined #openttd 18:30:22 <Samu> i prefer to work backwards 18:30:36 <Samu> well, not exactly, but i want to see how it currently stands 18:33:00 <Samu> eww... afterload and saveload changed drastically 18:36:01 *** Gja has quit IRC 18:36:24 <andythenorth> oh js 18:36:27 <andythenorth> why :( 18:36:33 <peter1138> Because 18:36:37 <andythenorth> on every level it's terrible 18:36:59 <andythenorth> I've spent an hour pissing around trying to fix draggables that stopped working 18:37:09 <andythenorth> turns out there's a bug in an unrelated script in the page 18:37:10 <Eddi|zuHause> but if you use <library flavour of the week> you can abstract away all the terribleness 18:37:12 <andythenorth> so jquery barfs 18:38:01 *** Gja has joined #openttd 18:39:45 <Samu> most of the failed hunks is because you changed uint32 into CargoTypes 18:40:47 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 18:40:55 <Gabda> Tile virtual coordinates are really odd 18:42:20 <Eddi|zuHause> loads of things in this game are very odd. can you be slightly more specific? :p 18:44:33 *** octernion has quit IRC 18:54:52 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 19:05:50 *** octernion has joined #openttd 19:05:58 <Samu> noted: https://gist.github.com/SamuXarick/576bba045ab1cff5403ab3c9f8bd4a9d/revisions 19:09:34 *** Wolf01 is now known as Guest526 19:09:37 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 19:12:23 <Samu> the "blindly" part is confusing me 19:12:46 <Samu> ok i see 19:13:34 <Samu> or actually, I don't 19:13:38 <Samu> must test 19:13:48 <Wolf01> Lesson learned: don't play with router if you don't know how to set strange things 19:14:36 *** Guest526 has quit IRC 19:14:38 <Eddi|zuHause> worst part is trying to google strange settings when your internet doesn't work :p 19:15:52 <Wolf01> The funny part is that I set it up succesfully before changing to the current setup, not it seem to block everything going outside if I enable it 19:27:24 <peter1138> Mmm, tuna steak 19:27:42 <andythenorth> kebab 19:30:24 <Eddi|zuHause> i must have caught peak hour at the kebab store, because i waited forever 19:30:39 <Eddi|zuHause> i considered skipping 19:30:51 <Eddi|zuHause> was around 18:00 19:35:12 *** Gja has quit IRC 19:36:12 <peter1138> Hmm, what to have for dessert... 19:36:38 <andythenorth> angel delight 19:37:56 <Samu> hmm the on_water information still has to be passed to the industry 19:38:57 <Samu> if it's not passed, what could be done 19:39:47 <Samu> the industry checks itself if it has a station attached to it 19:40:44 <Samu> but... some information about the station doing the request 19:40:50 <Samu> has to be known 19:45:23 <supermop_work_> Eddi|zuHause: i went to a 'berlin style' kebab place for lunch 19:45:51 <supermop_work_> https://kottidoner.com/ 19:45:54 <supermop_work_> it was ok 19:45:56 <Eddi|zuHause> are there other styles? 19:45:59 <peter1138> Hmm, so a simple road type flag... "can be built by towns" ? 19:46:38 <supermop_work_> yes 19:47:22 <Eddi|zuHause> in germany, all döner places are like that 19:47:42 <Eddi|zuHause> and in an average city there are more than mcdonalds and burger king combined 19:47:51 <peter1138> Looks good, not like any doner here. 19:48:26 <supermop_work_> its not particularly cheap tho 19:48:27 <peter1138> Here our choice of veg is "lettuce, onion, tomato, tomato, coleslaw, pickled peppers" 19:48:49 <peter1138> And always in pitta. 19:48:53 <supermop_work_> it's certainly a trying to be hip place playing off the trendiness of berlin in brooklyn 19:48:56 <Eddi|zuHause> the further you get away from berlin the more expensive it gets :p 19:49:09 <peter1138> Hmm, how do pavements fit into road types? 19:49:14 <supermop_work_> meh 19:49:17 <supermop_work_> however 19:49:25 <supermop_work_> agnostic about it 19:49:32 <peter1138> Wondering if zones shoulds should get their own flags. 19:49:32 <supermop_work_> thats what derailed it last time 19:49:38 <supermop_work_> sure 19:49:40 <peter1138> Or maybe that's callback material. 19:49:43 <Eddi|zuHause> (you can easily see this in germany, as the further west and south you get, prices can easily double) 19:49:59 <supermop_work_> town zone for kebab flag 19:50:11 <peter1138> :D 19:50:42 <supermop_work_> GS to pay 3x for doner kebab delivered from NE corner of map to SW 19:51:14 <andythenorth> kebab economy for FIRS 19:51:30 <andythenorth> I tried a town economy, but cdist wrecks it 19:51:39 <andythenorth> Coffee, Beer, Kebabs 19:51:56 <supermop_work_> maybe its time for mop generic industries 19:52:01 *** octernion has quit IRC 19:52:04 <peter1138> It's time to clean my glasses. 19:52:13 <andythenorth> Beer 19:52:14 <andythenorth> Coke 19:52:19 <supermop_work_> Importer -> distributor 19:52:21 <andythenorth> middle class needs 19:52:23 <supermop_work_> is the only chain 19:52:27 <andythenorth> Beer, Craft Beer, Ale 19:53:06 <supermop_work_> port 19:53:09 <supermop_work_> sherry 19:53:14 <peter1138> Should a town pick one road type and always build it? 19:53:15 <supermop_work_> whiskey 19:53:15 <peter1138> Or... 19:53:25 <supermop_work_> peter1138: i used to think yes 19:53:30 <peter1138> But? 19:53:36 <Eddi|zuHause> there's a price index http://blog.sonnenklar.tv/doener-index/ 19:53:42 *** octernion has joined #openttd 19:53:58 <supermop_work_> the build type A in zone X, type B in zone Y makes sense too 19:54:05 <Eddi|zuHause> "in each city we picked the 10 places with the best yelp reviews" 19:54:22 <peter1138> Hmm. 19:54:23 <supermop_work_> not sure if possible to leave that up to the newgrf tho 19:54:30 <peter1138> Yeah, callbacks could do that. 19:54:42 <supermop_work_> i wouldn't mind towns being different than each other 19:55:01 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: i'd rather have it so each roadtype must provide a version for each town zone 19:55:12 <supermop_work_> i wouldn't even mind some towns not being alowed to build roads while others may 19:55:41 <peter1138> Towns have to have roads. 19:55:49 <supermop_work_> Town A switches from cobbles to asphalt, Town B keeps the cobbles, Town C only ever builds footpaths? 19:56:26 <supermop_work_> idk, there are too may mazes of 'nice to have' for town roads though 19:56:41 <supermop_work_> so best to pick one feature, and just move forward with that 19:57:13 <supermop_work_> whether its road type by year, road type by zone, or road type by town vs city 19:57:20 <Eddi|zuHause> that's up to the growth algorithm to decide whether to replace old roads, there could be a completely separate feature to randomize the "personality" of a town 19:58:03 <supermop_work_> best not to lose NRT again in a morass of how best to simulate the city's engineers office 20:02:33 <peter1138> It only builds the first road type at the moment, doesn't it? 20:02:56 <supermop_work_> whatever is labeled ROAD i believe 20:03:08 <peter1138> Nope, ROADSUBTYPE_NORMAL, which is index 0. 20:04:25 *** cHawk has joined #openttd 20:07:45 *** glx has joined #openttd 20:07:45 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 20:14:03 *** Thedarkb1-T60 has joined #openttd 20:15:48 <andythenorth> should I play a game? 20:16:29 *** Thedarkb-T60 has quit IRC 20:19:32 <peter1138> Yes 20:22:23 <peter1138> Hmm, town building different road to the AI, so... 20:23:00 <peter1138> But... that means the flag is not working cos it shouldn't be flagged o_O 20:28:33 <peter1138> Oh, it is flagged. 20:28:41 <peter1138> Did roadtypeflag bit 4 mean anything at some point? 20:29:06 <peter1138> Where is the spec at the moment, even? 20:30:09 <supermop_work_> frosch's is the closest to up to date i think? 20:30:26 <peter1138> Yeah, but where. I don't have a cluse. 20:30:29 <peter1138> Nor a clue. 20:32:37 <peter1138> https://wiki.openttd.org/Frosch/ButGroundTypes ? 20:32:41 <peter1138> Wait no 20:32:43 <peter1138> that's ground types :p 20:33:49 <andythenorth> https://wiki.openttd.org/Frosch/NotRoadTypes 20:33:55 <peter1138> Yeah, found it. 20:34:21 <peter1138> Roadsides are always default? 20:34:48 <peter1138> Hmm, no. 20:36:24 <andythenorth> should I play the NRT PR? 20:36:25 <andythenorth> :P 20:49:09 *** Thedarkb1-T60 has quit IRC 20:53:32 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT) https://git.io/vhlfg 20:53:35 <peter1138> ^ Ueahj 20:53:36 <peter1138> ^T Yeah 20:53:38 <peter1138> ^ Yeah 20:54:02 <andythenorth> ok 20:54:05 <andythenorth> I need an industry set 20:54:09 <andythenorth> FIRS *sucks* 20:54:18 <andythenorth> has anyone made one? 20:55:33 <peter1138> TaI :D 20:55:56 <andythenorth> BAD FEATURES? 20:56:24 <Eddi|zuHause> plenty 20:57:06 <andythenorth> maybe I play a tropic map 20:57:11 <andythenorth> then I can moan about the terrain 20:59:33 *** Gabda has quit IRC 21:04:18 <peter1138> 1950 21:04:31 <peter1138> Station open for a month. 21:04:36 <peter1138> 190 passengers waiting. 21:10:38 <peter1138> Hmm, so var 44 contains the town zone. 21:13:27 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: can you try https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pjmafahbk with any variety other than "minimal"? 21:14:03 <andythenorth> you paste that _after_ I start a game :P 21:14:04 <andythenorth> ok 21:16:23 <andythenorth> hmm 21:16:34 <andythenorth> I guess to measure difference, need to repeat the seed 21:18:48 <Eddi|zuHause> that might be one way to test it 21:18:56 *** Progman has quit IRC 21:22:44 *** synchris has quit IRC 21:23:08 <Samu> found a bug on my implementation :( 21:23:30 <Samu> neutral stations could accept cargo of nearby neutral stations 21:24:03 <Samu> can't simply pass a bool 21:24:12 <Samu> have to pass station 21:26:16 <Samu> the acceptor 21:26:19 <Samu> accepter 21:27:09 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 21:28:10 <Eddi|zuHause> the scaling for max map height in relation to desert height might need some tweaking too 21:29:36 <Eddi|zuHause> at max height 16 i get mostly green, and at 32 mostly desert 21:30:31 <andythenorth> my hog fails :P 21:30:34 <andythenorth> oops 21:31:02 <Samu> it's not enough for the station to be neutral 21:31:18 <peter1138> Hog fails? 21:31:36 <andythenorth> I've failed to include NRT in it somehow 21:31:50 <andythenorth> probably because I tried to use branches in mercurial 21:31:51 <peter1138> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkaSTm0KO6c 21:33:34 <andythenorth> the old version works 21:35:43 <Samu> oops andythenorth your dredging site 21:36:04 <Samu> how did it create a station tile? 21:37:01 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: not even the picture on the box inflicts any kind of appetite 21:38:53 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 21:39:22 <Samu> nevermind, I misread this 21:39:24 <Samu> sorry 21:40:25 <Samu> just my short memory playing tricks on me, I even have this right 21:44:17 <andythenorth> I could match train livery to the industry colour :P 21:46:54 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: there's all sorts of wrong with this... 21:47:03 <Eddi|zuHause> like it's the wrong kind of bread 21:47:05 <Eddi|zuHause> no salad 21:47:16 <Eddi|zuHause> no 3 types of sauce 21:48:18 <Eddi|zuHause> and probably the meat won't have the right texture as it's probably leftovers-which-you-don't-want-to-know-more-about pushed through a grinder 21:52:12 <Samu> does fishing grounds accept engineering supplies? 21:52:49 <Samu> or is it because there's a dredging site nearby? 21:52:59 <Samu> andythenorth: ! 21:53:20 <Samu> not familiar with firs, but it's a good test 21:54:17 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, yeah, looks foul. 21:55:18 <Samu> yeah, this is definitely not the behaviour I was intending 21:56:37 *** gelignite has quit IRC 21:58:38 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 22:09:05 <Samu> dang, acceptance may not always come from a station 22:09:51 <Samu> can also come from when I'm looking for a place to build a station 22:10:58 <Samu> pre-placement 22:11:30 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 22:11:38 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, back to todays earworm presented by https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-8UgDUKcOs 22:24:30 *** octernion has quit IRC 22:25:57 <peter1138> Hmm, I need a diagonal station :/ 22:26:03 <andythenorth> and bridge 22:26:09 <andythenorth> diagonal station over diagonal bridge 22:26:21 <andythenorth> bridges in tunnels 22:27:16 <peter1138> :/ 22:28:26 <Samu> i need to pass GetAcceptanceAroundTiles the station index which pretty much goes against the point of that function 22:28:44 <Samu> must think 22:31:58 <Samu> it still has to iterate over the industry tiles 22:39:00 <andythenorth> stations in bridges with tunnels over them 22:39:20 <peter1138> andythenorth, what have you done...https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1218331#p1218331 22:39:25 <peter1138> a new host... 22:39:43 <andythenorth> SYL is a complete fuckwit 22:39:46 <planetmaker> moo 22:40:07 <andythenorth> or has legitimate mental health issues 22:40:09 <andythenorth> one or the other 22:45:10 <peter1138> Who's good with AI? 22:45:19 <peter1138> I mean, how should the AI interface look? o_O 22:46:28 <andythenorth> who's good with locks? 22:46:36 <andythenorth> this river is all wrong for locks 22:46:40 <peter1138> :/ 22:46:54 <peter1138> There's a patch for that. 22:49:00 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] M3Henry opened pull request #7196: Fix trains pending reversal + ordered to depot not behaving correctly https://git.io/fhH2V 22:51:01 <peter1138> Waaaait. 22:51:03 <peter1138> When did the CI change? 22:51:53 <peter1138> m3henry, commit message style "Fix: ..." 22:51:53 <LordAro> ooh 22:52:04 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 22:59:26 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] M3Henry updated pull request #7196: Fix trains pending reversal + ordered to depot not behaving correctly https://git.io/fhH2V 23:00:27 <m3henry> Fixed fix suffix 23:00:32 <peter1138> Prefix. 23:00:41 <LordAro> suffix of the prefix 23:00:42 <m3henry> : comes after fix 23:00:56 <peter1138> Fix: is the prefix, heh. 23:01:03 <peter1138> But the message is a bit wonky now. 23:01:12 <m3henry> fg 23:01:13 <peter1138> But hey. 23:02:28 <peter1138> So basically the line was ignoring the fact that the train was flagged to reverse. 23:02:29 <andythenorth> Fix: bridges in tunnels should be tunnels in bridges 23:02:38 <m3henry> yup 23:02:39 <andythenorth> Commit: bed 23:02:48 <peter1138> andythenorth, no. 23:03:03 <m3henry> I had noticed it ages ago but never thought to investigate 23:03:52 <peter1138> This has no bearing on trains not finding a depot when they have a reserved path, does it? 23:03:56 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 23:04:33 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7192: Codechange: making the style of MakeVoid calls uniform https://git.io/fhH2y 23:04:49 <peter1138> m3henry, nit-picking but I would rather the blank line was kept. 23:05:28 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #7192: Codechange: making the style of MakeVoid calls uniform https://git.io/fhHUg 23:05:46 <peter1138> Whitespace (including vertical whitespace) helps readability. 23:05:55 <m3henry> I agree 23:06:15 <m3henry> I would naturally have omitted the curly braces 23:06:20 <m3henry> but style guide 23:06:34 <peter1138> Me too but still. 23:06:45 <peter1138> Blank line after the closing curly brace. 23:07:33 <m3henry> Anyway, isn't this a minor thing that a reviewer edit would be sufficient for? 23:08:58 <peter1138> Creates a new commit. 23:09:19 <m3henry> ah,fair neough 23:10:19 <m3henry> Would no curly braces be compliant with the SG? 23:10:46 <peter1138> Nope. It is what it is. 23:11:36 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] M3Henry updated pull request #7196: Fix trains pending reversal + ordered to depot not behaving correctly https://git.io/fhH2V 23:12:21 <LordAro> no braces is only allowed when the statement and condition are on the same line 23:12:40 <LordAro> just leads to a goto fail incident otherwise 23:13:57 <Samu> * @param st_ind_id Industry Index of the station that is accepting (such as Oil Rig stations and Oil Rig industries) 23:14:46 <Samu> is this param name confusing? 23:14:52 <peter1138> Yes. 23:14:54 <Samu> it's a IndustryID 23:15:01 <Samu> ok, how to name it 23:15:46 <Samu> or maybe, how to english 23:16:24 <peter1138> Industry index of the station. What does that even mean? 23:16:59 <peter1138> Is it an index into Station::industries_near? 23:17:03 <Samu> no 23:17:07 <peter1138> Good. 23:17:08 <nielsm> Samu did you get the writeup of how I'd do that patch earlier? 23:17:19 <Samu> yes, i'm trying to deal with it 23:17:24 <nielsm> because with that method you don't need to alter any function signatures and tiles don't need to know who's asking 23:17:26 <Samu> but it's complex 23:18:00 <peter1138> LordAro, hmm, looks like the CI's running individual tasks, and the original combined job. 23:18:13 <LordAro> that seems undesirable 23:18:14 <Samu> you see a oil rig industry, it has a neutral station attached to it 23:18:16 <LordAro> are you sure? 23:18:33 <nielsm> oil rigs can end up with no station attached 23:18:44 <nielsm> when there's far too many of them 23:18:50 <nielsm> by the way 23:18:59 <LordAro> hmm, it does look that way 23:19:22 <Samu> that isn't supposed to happen :| 23:19:23 <LordAro> wait no, the individual tasks link through to the same build 23:20:06 <peter1138> LordAro, indeed, I guess it is a grouping, but it's not clear :-) 23:20:06 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 23:21:19 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN approved pull request #7196: Fix trains pending reversal + ordered to depot not behaving correctly https://git.io/fhH2A 23:21:34 <m3henry> Woo! 23:22:50 <m3henry> Just #7165 to go 23:23:43 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN merged pull request #7196: Fix trains pending reversal + ordered to depot not behaving correctly https://git.io/fhH2V 23:23:56 <Samu> in my good english: * @param st_ind_id Industry Index that the station attached to this industry is corresponded with 23:24:03 <Samu> lol 23:24:34 <peter1138> That makes no sense 23:24:41 <LordAro> now you're just repeating yourself 23:25:06 <LordAro> a) "ind_id" does not need to be in the variable name, that's what the type is for 23:25:11 <Samu> I got a station, it's an oil rig station, it is attached to an industry 23:25:17 <LordAro> b) "Industry Index" is just repeating the type again 23:25:18 <Samu> i wanna get the index 23:25:25 <Samu> or actually, I provide the index 23:25:56 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #7125: Convert singleplayer game to multiplayer server https://git.io/fhH2h 23:26:22 <peter1138> IndustryID associated with Station 23:26:30 <Samu> yes, that 23:26:31 <peter1138> IndustryID associated with Station (e.g. oil rig) 23:26:34 <peter1138> Something like that? 23:26:54 <Samu> yes 23:27:17 <Samu> i will be using it for comparison with other stations that are also neutral, but must ensure they belong to the same industry 23:27:43 <LordAro> or you could pay attention to what nielsm said about it, and not touch the signature at all 23:27:51 <peter1138> That too. 23:28:00 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #7189: fluidsynth driver plays music too loudly https://git.io/fhHae 23:28:11 <peter1138> Sometimes you gotta write the patch yourself. 23:28:15 <Samu> but i have to 23:28:21 <nielsm> no you don't 23:28:22 <nielsm> ypi 23:28:24 <nielsm> ypi 23:28:27 <nielsm> wow 23:28:34 <LordAro> yipee 23:28:34 <nielsm> much typo 23:28:46 <nielsm> you're not getting my idea then 23:28:54 <Samu> I'm trying 23:29:04 <nielsm> don't tell who's asking and have the answer depend on that 23:29:15 <nielsm> instead avoid asking at all 23:29:32 <Samu> i must compare 2 industry indexes 23:29:36 <nielsm> and have industry tiles whose industry owns a station lie about their acceptance (claim they don't accept anything) 23:30:14 <nielsm> player-owned stations query acceptance as normal, from the surrounding tile area 23:30:47 <nielsm> industry-owned stations do not query acceptance from tiles at all, instead just assume the accepted cargos of the industry it belongs to should be what the station accepts 23:31:29 <nielsm> and with industry tiles belonging to an industry with a station lying and claiming they accept nothing, player-owned stations won't get acceptance from those 23:32:08 <nielsm> but in addition to that, when cargo is delivered on a player-owned station, when deciding which industries to deliver the cargo to, never consider an industry that owns a station 23:32:26 <nielsm> and when an industry produces cargo, if it owns a station only deliver it on that station 23:33:21 <nielsm> this way, industry tiles only need to care about the industry itself they belong to, and never about any stations 23:33:30 <nielsm> (the industry should know whether it has a station attached) 23:34:13 <nielsm> (and you won't need to know which station id that is, just that one exists or does not exist) 23:40:43 <Samu> AddAcceptedCargo_Industry 23:40:56 <Samu> but it's still the same function that computes acceptance either way 23:42:04 <nielsm> you're still not reading what I write 23:42:19 <nielsm> where does station acceptance get calculated? 23:42:35 <nielsm> the answer is station_cmd.cpp line 562 UpdateStationAcceptance 23:42:54 <nielsm> that function knows what station is looking for acceptance 23:42:58 <Samu> it will inevitably reach this function 23:43:06 <nielsm> yes and that's too deep 23:43:26 <nielsm> change UpdateStationAcceptance such that industry-owned stations never ask any tiles at all about acceptance 23:44:15 <Samu> but it has to ask for industry tiles still 23:44:20 <nielsm> then AddAcceptedCargo_* functions don't need to know which station is asking 23:44:22 <Samu> even if it doesn't ask the others 23:44:38 <nielsm> no it does not, it can synthesize the acceptance from the industry itself 23:44:50 <nielsm> not the industry tiles, the industry 23:47:59 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 23:48:43 <Samu> I can't see this the way you see 23:49:21 <Samu> it has to at least iterate over its own tiles to compute acceptance for the neutral station 23:55:40 <nielsm> completely untested but I think this shows my idea: https://0x0.st/zzrx.txt 23:56:28 <nielsm> okay may not work since Industry::GetByTile requires that the tile is known to be an industry 23:57:14 <nielsm> should be fixed by: if (st->owner == OWNER_DEITY && IsTileType(st->xy, MP_INDUSTRY)) 23:57:49 <Samu> but the tile can have acceptance different than that of the industry 23:57:54 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 23:58:04 <Samu> like steel mill 23:58:22 <Samu> a station around it, says it accepts passengers, but the steel mill itself, doesn't 23:58:24 <nielsm> yes but name one industry that creates stations and has that property 23:58:34 <Samu> many 23:58:40 <nielsm> for example? 23:58:40 <Samu> oil rig accepts mail 23:58:52 <Samu> but oil rig doesn't accept mail 23:59:03 <Samu> it's the tile that accepts mail 23:59:26 <Samu> it has to iterate the industry tiles