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01:00:38 *** Pikka has joined #openttd 01:10:08 <supermop_Home> yo Pikka 01:10:22 <supermop_Home> hows it there? 01:13:13 <Pikka> hallo 01:13:19 <Pikka> not bad :) 01:13:27 <Pikka> you? 01:16:13 <supermop_Home> well i'm in what seems to be the comically bad place to be for the past 3 months 01:16:27 <supermop_Home> but fine 01:16:43 <supermop_Home> 20% pay cut but at least i still have a job 01:17:42 <supermop_Home> i haven't heard much about any differences between various aus states actually 01:23:01 <Pikka> fun times, eh? :) 01:23:03 <Pikka> bbl 01:23:05 *** Pikka has quit IRC 02:10:45 *** glx has quit IRC 02:28:44 <supermop_Home> whooooooooa 02:28:46 <supermop_Home> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1994-Daihatsu-Hijet-Dump/283888134413 02:47:21 *** D-HUND has joined #openttd 02:50:42 *** debdog has quit IRC 03:38:21 *** keoz has joined #openttd 03:57:43 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 03:57:54 <Speeder_> is there any obvious disvantage to having complex industries set? 04:04:32 *** Smedles has quit IRC 04:05:36 *** Smedles has joined #openttd 04:11:03 *** Wrench_In_The_Plan has quit IRC 04:14:48 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 04:42:00 *** Wrench_In_The_Plan has joined #openttd 04:56:04 *** Smedles has quit IRC 04:57:19 *** Smedles has joined #openttd 05:45:21 *** Progman has joined #openttd 06:02:26 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 06:38:17 *** gnu_jj has quit IRC 06:38:26 <LordAro> Speeder_: you ask a lot of questions 06:43:39 *** keoz has quit IRC 06:48:21 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 06:51:14 *** gnu_jj has joined #openttd 07:01:04 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 07:01:53 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 07:14:54 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 07:15:07 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 07:16:55 *** keoz has joined #openttd 07:35:29 <andythenorth> o. 07:35:57 <Wolf01> /ᐠ.ꞈ.ᐟ\ 07:36:07 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 07:36:07 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 07:43:04 *** tokai has quit IRC 08:15:15 *** Samu has joined #openttd 09:04:30 * andythenorth considers eveil 09:06:08 * andythenorth recants 09:06:35 <andythenorth> single-process graphics generation is much faster under pypy than py3.8 09:07:00 <andythenorth> but using a process pool with 16 workers, pypy is slower than py3.8 09:07:08 <andythenorth> guess there's substantial overhead 09:14:14 <Wolf01> Use both? 09:28:09 <FLHerne> andythenorth: PyPy is a JIT, that's why it's fast 09:29:17 <FLHerne> That means there's compilation overhead whenever a bit of code runs for the first time, and also it gets a bit faster as it runs 09:29:37 <andythenorth> Wolf01 that was my evil idea, it would make a horrible makefile though, and it's not actually faster in this case :P 09:29:47 <FLHerne> So, yes, creating lots of short-lived processes that import all the same code is a pretty bad idea for it 09:29:54 <andythenorth> just about the worst 09:30:18 <andythenorth> my guess is that's why the chameleon templating is slower too 09:31:01 <andythenorth> chameleon doesn't spawn processes, but it has its own template pre-compilation step that seems to interact badly with pypy 09:35:03 * andythenorth won't be investigating that one further, it's <1s to template in most cases :P 09:41:20 * andythenorth wonders if ships should get navigation lights 09:41:30 <andythenorth> I'll forget to swap the red and green when I flip sprites :P 09:42:33 *** tokai has joined #openttd 09:42:33 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 09:49:33 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 09:52:05 <andythenorth> seems having just 3 ship sizes was a nice idea 09:52:06 <andythenorth> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9688/sam_moar.png 09:52:12 <andythenorth> but 6 are better for gameplay :P 09:56:54 <andythenorth> so...how about vehicles that process cargo as they travel? 09:57:13 <andythenorth> train collects 'unsorted mail' and delivers 'sorted mail' :P 09:57:33 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 09:57:33 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 10:04:38 *** tokai has quit IRC 10:05:38 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 10:08:33 *** tokai has joined #openttd 10:08:33 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 10:18:23 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 10:18:23 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 10:25:04 *** tokai has quit IRC 10:26:24 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 11:22:46 *** D-HUND is now known as debdog 11:51:16 *** Borg has joined #openttd 12:22:27 *** glx has joined #openttd 12:22:27 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 12:53:24 *** virtualrandomnumber has joined #openttd 12:53:30 *** virtualrandomnumber has quit IRC 13:31:22 *** crem1 has quit IRC 14:11:42 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 14:17:23 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 14:18:40 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 14:20:36 <supermop_Home> hi 14:22:08 <Yexo> Hello 14:22:17 <supermop_Home> hows it going 14:28:04 *** crem has joined #openttd 14:42:57 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 14:45:08 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 14:47:38 <supermop_Home> hi andythenorth 14:53:53 <andythenorth> hi 15:09:40 <supermop_Home> i stayed up late last night looking at import Daihatsu kei trucks 15:11:55 <andythenorth> https://external-preview.redd.it/OixdcOMlEnw1d30AMWVXmD6l2BugkrbirINkEKoKk58.jpg?auto=webp&s=2fbec2c168b834149dcaf499f98feb07582af78c 15:12:40 <supermop_Home> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1993-Daihatsu-HiJet-Dump-Bed/373067263986?hash=item56dc8aaff2:g:xeUAAOSwLSxezq5T 15:12:58 <supermop_Home> cheddar valley enough for 8 tiles of containers? 15:13:14 <supermop_Home> using Grids now for 6.5 and they seem fine 15:13:25 <supermop_Home> might electrify though 15:20:39 <supermop_Home> maybe it's boring if all the freight is too fast 15:29:56 <Speeder_> hello 15:33:46 *** Smedles has quit IRC 15:35:00 *** Smedles has joined #openttd 16:23:07 <andythenorth> new var, like 40, 41 but taking a list of IDs as a parameter? 16:23:17 * andythenorth wants to some things with MU trains 16:23:27 <andythenorth> https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/VariationalAction2/Vehicles#Position_and_length_.2840.2C_41.29 16:24:07 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 16:33:14 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 16:33:28 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 16:45:01 *** Flygon has quit IRC 17:19:53 *** m1cr0man has quit IRC 17:24:46 *** m1cr0man has joined #openttd 17:26:36 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think there's a way of giving a list of things as parameter 17:28:55 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe you can find some limited use of prop25/var42 (user bits) 17:29:21 <andythenorth> wondered about that, but there's no sensible way to recursively check a property in a consist 17:29:52 <andythenorth> list of IDs could have been in storages (limited length of list?) 17:29:58 <Eddi|zuHause> is there a callback for setting prop25? 17:30:03 <andythenorth> not afaik 17:30:06 * andythenorth looks 17:30:17 <Eddi|zuHause> might be problematic 17:30:41 <Eddi|zuHause> feedback loops like that are desync hazards 17:31:01 <andythenorth> looks like cb 36 can set it 17:31:08 <andythenorth> but has the warnings about loops 17:32:21 <andythenorth> action 0 prop: additional set of IDs to match in var var 40, 41 17:32:21 <andythenorth> ? 17:32:43 <andythenorth> bit crude, but might work, also static so marginally simpler? 17:32:54 <andythenorth> i.e. cacheable etc 17:33:39 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Single-ID prop for 'ID in prop41' ? 17:33:45 <Eddi|zuHause> well an idea for using prop25 would be that you group your vehicles so all bits except one are set. 17:34:18 <FLHerne> *var 17:34:26 <FLHerne> If unset, var41 matches only itself, otherwise any vehicles with the same ID set 17:34:47 <Eddi|zuHause> so when you OR over all vehicles in var42, if that bit is set, a "wrong" vehicle is in there 17:34:51 <andythenorth> equivalence groups FLHerne ? 17:35:26 <Eddi|zuHause> not sure how you would then count those, but... details :p 17:35:36 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause only a small detail :) 17:35:46 <andythenorth> and it needs to count consecutively also :) 17:35:52 <andythenorth> trivial details 17:35:56 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Yes, I think 17:36:18 <andythenorth> FLHerne so like prop 25, but useful? o_O 17:37:49 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Not really, except mechanically? 17:38:14 <andythenorth> this idea makes me think of ducktyping for some reason 17:38:21 <andythenorth> are you a duck? 'quack' 17:38:42 <andythenorth> for the purposes of this entire train, are you a duck? 'quack' 17:38:58 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: well, at least, if you're sure that there is no "wrong" vehicle in the chain, you can just count the whole chain 17:39:23 <Eddi|zuHause> and if there is a "wrong" vehicle you can fall back to "ah well, i tried" default mode 17:40:29 <Eddi|zuHause> you can only have 8 such clusters in the whole GRF, though 17:41:48 <andythenorth> hmm 17:41:59 <andythenorth> this is the second time this var has come up :) 17:42:03 <Speeder_> I am getting really annoyed with graphviz 17:42:24 <andythenorth> first time was really fancy passenger trains, (dining cars etc), but with mixed coach IDs 17:42:39 <andythenorth> now the idea is fancy railcars, again with mixed vehicle IDs 17:42:48 <andythenorth> Speeder_ graphviz is a wild beast 17:43:05 <Speeder_> it doesn't support some really simple things 17:43:13 <Speeder_> like telling it a cluster is ALWAYS on the end 17:43:16 <andythenorth> it is both very complex, and very rudimentary 17:43:24 <Speeder_> it puts the thing everywhere it wants, except where I want. 17:43:36 <andythenorth> yes, it has no useful way to weight some nodes to one end of the graph 17:43:38 <andythenorth> or not in dot 17:44:12 <andythenorth> the design of FIRS is honestly mostly now dictated by how Graphviz renders on my mac, and whether it looks nice 17:44:24 <andythenorth> and for lolz, the linux version of dot layout renders differently :D 17:45:25 <andythenorth> hmm so where is var 40, 41 in src then? 17:45:49 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master https://git.io/JfKhf 17:45:49 <DorpsGek_III> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators) 17:47:03 <andythenorth> can't see it in vehicle_cmd or ground_vehicle 17:48:24 <Speeder_> andythenorth, I am on windows... so I assume it looks even weirder 17:48:33 <Speeder_> oh by the way, also it CRASHES some versions of graphviz outright 17:49:05 <Speeder_> I had to download several versions of graphviz until I found one that would not segfault when loading firs dot files 17:49:06 <Speeder_> O.o 17:52:46 *** grossing has quit IRC 17:52:47 *** grossing has joined #openttd 18:06:58 <andythenorth> hmm, cargo subtype can't persist over autoreplace 18:07:25 * andythenorth had an alternative idea about MU trains using subtypes 18:09:00 *** milek7 has quit IRC 18:09:38 *** milek7 has joined #openttd 18:21:18 *** t4 has quit IRC 18:21:29 *** tyteen4a03 has joined #openttd 18:23:10 *** DecapitatedO has quit IRC 18:23:33 *** DecapitatedO has joined #openttd 18:35:16 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: probably in newgrf_something.cpp 18:38:02 <andythenorth> I could just search for 0x40 18:40:13 <andythenorth> NCVV_POSITION_CONSIST_LENGTH and NCVV_POSITION_SAME_ID_LENGTH look plausible 18:40:49 <andythenorth> yup cached as expected 18:41:27 <andythenorth> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/src/newgrf_engine.cpp#L454 18:41:40 *** heffer has quit IRC 18:41:50 *** ket has quit IRC 18:42:07 <andythenorth> PositionHelper() maybe 18:42:24 <andythenorth> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/src/newgrf_engine.cpp#L422 18:43:29 <andythenorth> so extend that to look at [something] and give it a new number 18:47:04 *** ket has joined #openttd 18:48:21 <andythenorth> looking at other vars 18:49:11 <andythenorth> it could take 'number of other IDs as a parameter' and then have a defined range of temp. registers that can be stuffed with IDs (maybe up to 32?) 18:57:18 *** lastmikoi has quit IRC 18:59:37 *** lastmikoi has joined #openttd 18:59:42 *** Taede has quit IRC 19:00:17 *** Taede has joined #openttd 19:17:03 *** Borg has quit IRC 19:17:52 *** cHawk has joined #openttd 19:40:36 *** heffer has joined #openttd 19:44:30 <supermop_Home> well it didn't blow up 19:48:29 <dwfreed> yet 20:00:46 *** iarp[m] has quit IRC 20:02:33 *** iarp[m] has joined #openttd 20:05:17 <LordAro> seems unlikely to blow up at this point 20:08:24 <andythenorth> supermop_Home how's the game going? o_O 20:15:28 <supermop_Home> scheduling a bunch of trains to pass through a flat junction 20:16:27 <supermop_Home> upgraded to flanders and cascaded all the grids and cheddar vallies 20:20:06 <andythenorth> I think railcar trailers are off the agenda :) 20:20:41 <andythenorth> would need a newgrf spec extension; might do 25% run cost discount for all but first vehicle 20:20:54 <andythenorth> still leaves them over-powered :P 20:40:27 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Yexo commented on issue #7662: Station sets using ground tile numbers using incorrect tiles for maglev and monorail https://git.io/fjMEK 20:53:02 *** cawal[m] has quit IRC 20:53:18 *** cawal[m] has joined #openttd 20:56:30 *** yoltid[m] has quit IRC 20:56:46 *** lapav[m] has quit IRC 20:56:52 *** yoltid[m] has joined #openttd 20:57:02 *** glothit7ok[m] has quit IRC 20:57:10 *** lapav[m] has joined #openttd 20:57:24 *** glothit7ok[m] has joined #openttd 21:01:02 *** hylshols7qui[m] has quit IRC 21:01:28 *** hylshols7qui[m] has joined #openttd 21:02:54 *** dag[m] has quit IRC 21:02:55 <supermop_Home> whoa 21:03:05 *** dag[m] has joined #openttd 21:03:11 <supermop_Home> you can ctrl click a vehicle to stop or start it? 21:05:34 *** twom[m] has quit IRC 21:05:56 <FLHerne> yes 21:07:32 *** twom[m] has joined #openttd 21:16:20 <andythenorth> not as mind blowing as auto-signal though :P 21:18:07 *** grag[m] has quit IRC 21:18:31 <supermop_Home> I've been using that for years tho 21:18:54 *** grag[m] has joined #openttd 21:19:58 *** ciet[m] has quit IRC 21:20:26 *** ciet[m] has joined #openttd 21:21:41 *** paulus[m] has quit IRC 21:22:04 *** paulus[m] has joined #openttd 21:41:57 <supermop_Home> 3 track termini are not actually that much more useful than 2 track 21:42:23 *** Samu has quit IRC 21:43:27 <andythenorth> depends how often the junction blocks 21:43:50 <supermop_Home> also with any kind of flat station throat it seems pretty much impossible to clear it any faster than about 6 days 21:44:05 *** keoz has quit IRC 21:44:51 <supermop_Home> 10 day headway seems to be the practical minimum for a regular end of line station 21:46:41 <supermop_Home> so 2 platforms works fine, have each train lay up for like 12 days, to let the following one plenty of time to clear the throat 21:46:42 <supermop_Home> and rarely does a train need more than 12 days to load 21:47:18 <Yexo> That depends on which train newgrfs you use 21:47:33 <supermop_Home> so you don't need 3 platforms for it to wait skip a slot 21:47:36 <Yexo> Also wider stations can be nice to act as a buffer in case there isn't always enough cargo to fill up trains immediately 21:48:14 <supermop_Home> Yexo ususally if i timetable trains i get rid of the full load orders 21:48:43 <Yexo> I basically never use timetables 21:48:52 <supermop_Home> if a freight train waits until the next one is in the station to load, you always get decent service 21:50:43 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 21:51:10 *** Heiki[m] has quit IRC 21:51:49 *** Heiki[m] has joined #openttd 21:52:33 <supermop_Home> 3 track station are nice if one train is hopelessly behind on schedule and needs to pass a train in front 21:59:46 <andythenorth> I tried timetabling something once 21:59:49 <andythenorth> ships 22:00:11 <andythenorth> I use that 'wait at station for n days' thing, but I never use timetables 22:16:35 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 22:20:38 *** dekeract[m] has quit IRC 22:21:06 *** dekeract[m] has joined #openttd 22:34:23 <supermop_Home> i honestly can't imaging playing the game without it 22:34:35 <supermop_Home> everything just becomes messy piles 22:42:38 <supermop_Home> i think i need to build another blast furnace 22:45:47 <Eddi|zuHause> i timetable every road route 22:46:13 <Eddi|zuHause> but interacting train routes are painful to set up right 22:48:58 <supermop_Home> hmm this train has a 'non-stop via' order, but a 'stay for 1 day' time on it 23:03:58 *** blim[m] has quit IRC 23:04:08 *** blim[m] has joined #openttd 23:06:42 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 23:06:46 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 23:10:50 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 23:25:59 <Speeder_> noone ever made "pharmeceutics" a cargo item? 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