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14:25:54 <supermop_Home> what engine? 14:26:06 <andythenorth> small shunter 14:26:23 <andythenorth> no gameplay differnce 14:26:28 <andythenorth> just visual variety 14:29:32 <andythenorth> 2.10.0 then 14:31:03 <supermop_Home> Hand car? 14:32:19 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 14:32:50 <andythenorth> hadn't considered it so far :D 14:45:06 <frosch123> 2k9 14:45:25 <andythenorth> funny version number :P 14:47:08 <frosch123> did you consider adoping V's version schema 14:47:44 <frosch123> it may completely defeat the point of version numbers, but it requires very little decisions 14:48:35 *** azubieta has joined #openttd 14:48:42 *** arikover has quit IRC 14:54:46 <andythenorth> is it just random numbers? 14:55:27 <frosch123> https://bananas.openttd.org/package/newgrf/48410101 15:12:51 <andythenorth> oops 15:12:57 <andythenorth> must remember to invalidate cloudfront 15:21:33 *** APTX has quit IRC 15:22:36 *** APTX has joined #openttd 15:27:24 <andythenorth> supermop_Home for the record https://grf.farm/iron-horse/2.10.0/html/captain_steel.html 15:35:21 <frosch123> 2k6 15:43:28 *** Flygon has quit IRC 16:03:09 <andythenorth> so should I do US Horse? https://grf.farm/images/4-6-6-4-Challenger.png 16:14:29 <FLHerne> Maybe? 16:14:43 * FLHerne was looking forward to the boats, personally 16:15:33 <FLHerne> But I know some people would like it 16:16:01 <FLHerne> NARS is too much at the hyper-detail > gameplay end 16:22:00 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 16:30:32 <andythenorth> boats! 16:32:51 <andythenorth> I had a poke at improved pallet carrier sprites ('dry cargo') https://grf.farm/images/sam-nov-2020.png 16:33:16 <andythenorth> I have been using more colours 16:33:34 <andythenorth> I was trying a strict minimal colour palette, like I use for trains 16:33:47 <andythenorth> but ships are too big for that, they look unfinished 16:34:04 *** DasPoseidon has quit IRC 16:36:22 *** DasPoseidon has joined #openttd 16:38:47 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/team] maksmkv opened issue #78: [ru_RU] Translator access request https://git.io/JTjJz 16:42:50 *** glx has joined #openttd 16:42:51 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 16:47:13 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 16:48:53 <andythenorth> edibles tankers seem to have green tank tops http://www.shipspotting.com/gallery/photo.php?lid=1223281 16:48:59 <andythenorth> wine / water / etc 16:50:51 <andythenorth> whereas Horse and Hog are white / silver / CC, like original TTD https://wiki.openttd.org/File:Watertanker.png 16:52:59 <andythenorth> not convinced by white hull https://grf.farm/images/sam-nov-2020-2.png 16:56:19 <Timberwolf> Problem I found with NARS games is the only locomotives you ever need to buy is however many generations of 4-4-0 American it takes to get to the 80mph one, and then the GG1 when it comes out. 16:57:07 <Timberwolf> Not something you can really solve without having "unrealistic" specs. 16:59:46 <andythenorth> Timberwolf that 'one loco is always boss' thing was what drove Iron Horse v1 to be minimalist 16:59:47 <andythenorth> 20 locos 16:59:52 <Timberwolf> Well, I guess if you had an industry/cargo set that had higher production values, lower cargo payments, and slower decay of payment. 17:00:11 <andythenorth> I think there was always one diesel that was OP, the GP38 or GP40 17:00:20 <andythenorth> everything else was pointless 17:02:29 <andythenorth> hmm, Horse does not feature sausage vans 17:02:30 <andythenorth> https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/148083-lms-palethorpes-6-wheel-van/ 17:02:33 <andythenorth> oversight 17:07:28 <Timberwolf> Perhaps we ask too much from a game where the default graphics set gives optimal consists of double-headed A4s for a coal train. 17:07:36 <Timberwolf> (or of course the ubiquitous coal TGV) 17:20:18 <andythenorth> well 17:20:33 <andythenorth> I can see the lucidity of your argument 17:20:42 <andythenorth> but our train grfs suggest we don't buy it :P 17:23:05 <andythenorth> Timberwolf I think Horse provides optimum train though https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1225466#p1225466 17:24:39 <andythenorth> https://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=208438 17:42:53 <Timberwolf> :) 17:43:19 <FLHerne> andythenorth: White hull is more common on chemical tankers, stops the cargo boiling off :p 17:44:09 <andythenorth> yeah 17:44:15 <FLHerne> Timberwolf: Double-headed *tenderless* A4s 17:44:23 <andythenorth> I'm not sure about maintaining consistency for ships with Horse and Hog 17:44:31 <FLHerne> I guess they just shovel coal from the cargo 17:44:34 *** Progman has joined #openttd 17:44:42 <andythenorth> I thought it would be a neat and tidy idea if ships were just like big Horse trains 17:44:45 <FLHerne> Consistency how? 17:44:54 <andythenorth> same classes, same visual appearance rules 17:45:02 <andythenorth> so open wagon -> freighter 17:45:17 <andythenorth> mineral wagon -> bulk barge 17:45:18 <andythenorth> etc 17:45:28 <andythenorth> goods van -> dry cargo ship 17:45:37 <andythenorth> and then same company colours and liveries 17:45:50 <FLHerne> I think that makes sense to some extent 17:45:52 <andythenorth> but it just doesn't 100% work 17:45:57 <andythenorth> it's probably 60:40 17:46:08 <andythenorth> I think it needs to be 'sometimes aligns' 17:46:22 <FLHerne> Also, it would be nice if ships had an integer number of wagon capacities 17:46:28 <andythenorth> yeah I have wondered 17:46:32 <andythenorth> but the generations don't line up 17:46:35 <FLHerne> It's always annoying when you have a transfer and it doesn't quite work 17:46:39 <andythenorth> yes agreed 17:46:49 <andythenorth> but trains progress faster 17:46:55 <andythenorth> [or more frequently] 17:47:12 * andythenorth would settle for a load x% order :P 17:47:13 <FLHerne> That sounds like a 'not enough ships' problem :p 17:47:23 <andythenorth> but apparently load x% is not really possible 17:47:33 <andythenorth> other than in JGR 17:48:04 <andythenorth> I think also Hog and Horse will diverge, when I do Hog 2.0 17:48:16 <andythenorth> because of the HEQS-type stuff I'm adding 17:48:30 <andythenorth> 'off road mining truck' just doesn't have a train equivalent 17:48:56 <andythenorth> well, maybe side dump cars, but they look wildly different :P 17:49:23 <FLHerne> Not convinced that kind of visual consistency makes sense 17:49:41 <FLHerne> Make the same cargo look the same, sure 17:49:46 <andythenorth> I think it's a slavish consistency 17:49:51 <andythenorth> and a hobgoblin 17:50:00 <FLHerne> But making all vehicles that carry the same cargo category look similar is just boring 17:50:04 <andythenorth> yeah 17:50:12 <andythenorth> the inspiration is original base set 17:50:20 <FLHerne> It's one thing I don't love about Road Hog 17:50:23 <andythenorth> where RVs just have rail wagons glued on the back 17:50:41 <FLHerne> Yes 17:50:50 <andythenorth> I am not currently inspired by RVs 17:51:08 <andythenorth> Hog, the main inspiration was "the only non-shit RV grf is eGRVTs" 17:51:13 <andythenorth> and I played eGRVTS to death 17:51:36 <andythenorth> explain your view on Hog more? 17:51:41 <andythenorth> might be useful for designing 17:51:51 <FLHerne> Bob's British Vehicles is mostly nice 17:51:52 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master https://git.io/JTjqr 17:51:52 <DorpsGek_III> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators) 17:52:00 <FLHerne> But it has a couple of awkward gaps, and doesn't do autorefit 17:52:52 <FLHerne> I like Hog for gameplay a lot 17:53:15 <FLHerne> The one thing I miss is early non-articulated vehicles with reasonable capacity 17:53:21 <FLHerne> (because I like dead-end stops) 17:53:26 <andythenorth> what about later game? 17:53:45 <FLHerne> Visually, I tend to end up with loads of vehicles of one generation at a time 17:53:47 <andythenorth> 8x4 rigid trucks could carry quite a bit 17:54:08 <FLHerne> They're obviously all the same one with different bodies, and it looks dull 17:54:37 <FLHerne> BBV has an 8x4 Mammoth Major, it's probably my most-used RV ever 17:55:35 <FLHerne> Currently I tend to use both BBV and Hog together 17:55:45 <FLHerne> So that I can use Hog vehicles to fill in the gaps 17:55:57 <FLHerne> (this was why I wanted a 'no Hog buses' option) 17:56:40 <FLHerne> Well, 'currently' -- I've not actually played OTTD in months now :p 17:59:06 * andythenorth considers randomised appearance 17:59:26 <andythenorth> I have shared order groups in my game with 40-50 identical RVs 17:59:39 <andythenorth> Horse randomises wagon appearance between 2 variants 18:03:21 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 18:03:30 <FLHerne> ditto 18:03:33 <FLHerne> That would be nice 18:06:47 *** DasPoseidon has quit IRC 18:07:46 <longtomjr> Polroad is alo a nice rv set 18:09:05 <andythenorth> hmm 18:09:09 <andythenorth> randomised ships? :P 18:09:12 <andythenorth> oof 18:09:21 <andythenorth> also...2CC is a problem with ships 18:09:34 <andythenorth> I pretty much always use white as 2CC, for train reasons 18:09:49 <andythenorth> but that doesn't show up on ships 18:10:24 *** rptr_ has joined #openttd 18:10:54 <andythenorth> due to ships using a lot of white :P 18:11:00 <longtomjr> White is the most colorblind friendly cc 18:11:46 <andythenorth> oof 18:12:04 <andythenorth> maybe I just use the livery UI 18:12:52 <andythenorth> not sure that all ships need 2CC 18:13:41 <andythenorth> Horse freight wagons are pretty much 1CC 18:23:00 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 18:29:39 <andythenorth> err 18:29:44 <andythenorth> the train livery UI window is annoying 18:29:54 <andythenorth> maybe I just force Horse 2CC to white 18:32:15 <andythenorth> oh 18:32:21 <andythenorth> I could just implement company colours in the grf 18:32:24 <andythenorth> as parameters 18:32:30 <andythenorth> maybe that would be best 18:39:43 <andythenorth> oof now I have to try it :P 18:47:48 <andythenorth> can't show company colour in Action 14 lists :D 18:47:49 <andythenorth> nvm 18:53:02 <Timberwolf> BBV's Mammoth Major was the inspiration for Timberwolf's Road Vehicles. 18:53:27 <Timberwolf> Specifically, that 40 year stretch where it's the only one you use. 18:54:17 <Timberwolf> It was originally supposed to be a little gap-filler to go alongside Bob's sets. 18:56:15 <andythenorth> what have you learnt from TRV? 18:56:22 <andythenorth> what would you keep / do differently? 18:56:25 * andythenorth steals 18:58:54 *** mirrorb2rd has joined #openttd 18:59:01 <TrueBrain> nice progress there frosch123 :) Found any errors in truewiki? 18:59:32 <andythenorth> oof if I add a parameter for company colours 18:59:38 <andythenorth> the names will be e.g. 'pink' 18:59:45 <andythenorth> but there are company-colour changing grfs 18:59:50 <frosch123> TrueBrain: only mediawiki insanity 19:00:33 <andythenorth> oh the company colour grfs don't change the names anyway 19:04:10 <TrueBrain> frosch123: results are looking good :) Cannot believe how many deadlinks we have on our wiki :D 19:05:26 *** rptr_ has quit IRC 19:05:32 <andythenorth> do they 404? 19:05:39 * andythenorth is a big fan of linkcheckers 19:05:58 <TrueBrain> they do not; as a page that does not exist in wiki simply means a page that is not created yet :P 19:06:04 <andythenorth> oh yes that :) 19:06:06 <andythenorth> wiki lolz 19:06:31 <frosch123> well, all the translations :) 19:09:10 <andythenorth> oof action 14 caching :D 19:09:16 <andythenorth> much restarting of openttd 19:09:48 *** rptr_ has joined #openttd 19:09:50 * andythenorth is adding player control over 'random' wagon choices 19:09:59 <andythenorth> but I am seriously considering a 'rainbow' option 19:10:07 <Wolf01> Tank time 19:11:35 <andythenorth> I rage quit tanks yesterday 19:11:40 <andythenorth> 10% WR 19:11:51 <andythenorth> red teams all just stacked, 70% players vs 40% on my team 19:11:58 <andythenorth> 'true random' 19:13:39 *** mirrorb2rd has quit IRC 19:15:19 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 19:26:36 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 19:27:14 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 19:35:20 <Wolf01> Nice, I unearthed a kv1 19:41:51 *** arikover has joined #openttd 19:42:09 <andythenorth> what from a lake? 19:42:14 <andythenorth> like that Youtube video? 19:42:40 <Wolf01> No, it was in the middle of a field 19:43:39 <andythenorth> what game is it? 19:43:49 <Wolf01> Tank mechanic sim 19:47:42 <Wolf01> Too bad is only de-rust, sand, primer, paint... you don't even need to take apart the tank 19:48:11 <Wolf01> I would have liked more if there were broken parts which you needed to remove and replace 19:50:01 <andythenorth> do you get to use an AVRE 19:50:05 <andythenorth> is it like spin tires? 19:50:31 <andythenorth> omg there's a mac version 19:50:34 <andythenorth> on a steam game 19:50:35 <andythenorth> wtf? 19:50:37 <Wolf01> Don't know, I didn't play spin tires 19:51:21 <andythenorth> me neither, but I watched a lot of videos 20:00:16 <Timberwolf> andythenorth: "Don't try to please everyone by adding a parameter for their particular use case" would be a big (if slightly sad and mean) one. 20:00:33 *** DasPoseidon has joined #openttd 20:01:51 *** DasPoseidon1 has joined #openttd 20:01:53 *** DasPoseidon has quit IRC 20:01:53 *** DasPoseidon1 is now known as DasPoseidon 20:01:55 <andythenorth> still favouring rainbow 20:02:29 <andythenorth> April 1 edition of Horse 20:02:32 *** longtomjr has quit IRC 20:04:35 <Timberwolf> I think a lot of it was standard newbie stuff, like the later models being a lot better than the earlier ones, failing at relative scale, janky offsets, all of that stuff you fail to pay attention to when someone who knows what they're doing tells you what to consider :) 20:06:24 <andythenorth> what about the vehicle tech tree? 20:06:30 * andythenorth hasn't played it (sorry) 20:06:59 <Timberwolf> Beat it into submission with quantity. 20:07:24 <Timberwolf> Actually real life UK vehicles aren't ideal for a tech tree. 20:08:32 <Timberwolf> You spend 80 years with everything being underpowered, then in the space of about 10 years you go from the first F-series Volvos arriving in the UK to Scania's ridiculous "580? Yeah, 580 sounds good." 20:08:56 <andythenorth> Hog has a bit of that 20:09:18 <andythenorth> Horse has substantially overpowered early trains to avoid that hockey stick power curve 20:09:38 <Timberwolf> The small trucks (Mercedes LK, Bedfork TK etc.) were a really nice idea, I can say it was nice because it's one of things the community suggested. 20:09:52 <andythenorth> what's the capacity? 20:10:26 <Timberwolf> About half the full-size equivalents, but they get a boost for mail so it's more like 2/3rds. 20:10:54 <andythenorth> plausible 20:11:17 * andythenorth downloads it 20:11:28 <andythenorth> wow many parameters :) 20:13:33 <andythenorth> error 20:13:44 <andythenorth> the Transit Custom isn't a double cab (DCIV) 20:13:54 <andythenorth> parameter please 20:14:03 <andythenorth> also it's LWB 20:17:33 <Timberwolf> "Van wheelbases" is the ideal parameter, what I need is yet another variable to interact with the load capacities and performance. 20:19:47 <andythenorth> well you also need roof height 20:19:52 <andythenorth> mine is low-roof 20:20:10 <andythenorth> but that affects cube capacity, not maximum GVW 20:20:16 <andythenorth> and it affects aerodynamics 20:20:27 <andythenorth> swb vs lwb should affect curve speed 20:20:42 <andythenorth> maybe I make my own transit van grf 20:20:45 <andythenorth> featuring my own van 20:20:59 <FLHerne> What you're missing is a Defender 110 with a hydraulic tipper body and a small crane 20:21:06 <andythenorth> you have one? 20:21:12 <Timberwolf> Heh. 20:21:18 <FLHerne> No, my uncle does though :p 20:21:22 <andythenorth> or you're thinking of the National Grid ones with fat tyres? 20:21:25 * FLHerne has a red bicycle 20:21:32 <FLHerne> Which would be, like, two pixels 20:21:34 <andythenorth> there's a fat-tyred Transit as well that national grid use 20:21:55 <andythenorth> FLHerne https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/tZgAAOSwS8Ze-gqu/s-l500.jpg 20:22:08 <FLHerne> I wonder if you could do a whole peloton of cyclists as a vehicle? 20:22:23 <FLHerne> With animations for them jockeying about 20:22:41 <andythenorth> we have seagull objects 20:22:43 <andythenorth> so why not? 20:22:54 <FLHerne> I know, I've built loads of those :p 20:23:00 <andythenorth> if there was a red traffic light though, 50% would go through it 20:23:02 <andythenorth> and 50% would not 20:23:06 <Timberwolf> Do it as the London hire bikes, then the "empty" state can be one of those flatbed vehicles with a rack of bikes in the back. 20:23:21 <FLHerne> Traffic lights are bloody annoying on a bike 20:24:13 <andythenorth> I know, I wait at them a lot 20:24:17 <andythenorth> thinking time eh 20:24:17 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 20:24:20 <FLHerne> Half the time there's definitely no reason to stop 20:24:26 * FLHerne generally abides by them 20:24:27 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 20:24:45 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 20:25:17 <Timberwolf> The most annoying are segregated cycle lane lights where if you were on the road you'd have a green, but your bike lane has a red because cars can make a left/right turn across it. 20:25:45 <andythenorth> hmm how do recolour sprites work 20:26:29 *** arikover has left #openttd 20:27:10 *** arikover has joined #openttd 20:28:01 <andythenorth> I have no idea what I'm doing :P 20:28:14 * FLHerne pokes email filters 20:28:38 <FLHerne> I still have 11k unread emails, but at least now I know what I'm not reading :p 20:28:55 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 20:34:57 <andythenorth> if "return base_sprite_2cc + 16 * company_colour2 + company_colour1" gives me regular 1CC and 2CC 20:35:19 <andythenorth> how do I get 1cc translated to e.g. COLOUR_DARK_BLUE 20:35:40 <andythenorth> I don't understand the method this page describes https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:List_of_default_colour_translation_palettes#Company_colour_helper_functions 20:36:15 <frosch123> you just replace "company_colour1" with "COLOUR_DARK_BLUE" 20:36:51 <frosch123> you can also replace the whole thing with palette_2cc(company_colour2, COLOUR_DARK_BLUE) 20:37:00 <frosch123> instead of the custom + * 20:37:05 <andythenorth> neat 20:37:36 <andythenorth> so just return that palette? No base_sprite_2cc? 20:37:53 <frosch123> palette_2cc contains base_sprite_2cc 20:37:57 <frosch123> i would hope :) 20:38:04 *** rptr_ has quit IRC 20:38:24 <andythenorth> ok 20:39:50 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 20:47:43 <andythenorth> oof I have some silly typo bug in my action 14 20:47:47 <andythenorth> testing it is so annoying :D 20:47:52 <andythenorth> openttd is so slow to start 20:49:59 *** Smedles_ has quit IRC 21:02:12 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ceeac opened issue #8335: Data race when loading fluidsynth music driver https://git.io/JTj8H 21:21:28 <andythenorth> is nml parameterised switches merged? :P 21:21:31 * andythenorth could look 21:30:10 <andythenorth> oh it was :D 21:46:10 <andythenorth> ha 4 randomised choices of wagon colour :D https://grf.farm/images/wagon_cc.png 21:46:11 <andythenorth> BAD FEATURE 21:47:59 <andythenorth> https://grf.farm/images/wagon_cc_2.png 21:56:13 *** gelignite has quit IRC 21:56:17 *** nielsm has quit IRC 22:04:31 <Eddi|zuHause> parameterised switches? you mean procedures? 22:07:02 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 22:10:11 <andythenorth> yes 22:13:44 <Eddi|zuHause> i wanted to use procedures for something in CETS, but i completely forgot everything about it 22:14:47 <Eddi|zuHause> i think it was the capacity switches 22:15:03 <andythenorth> procedures with parameters are really helpful 22:15:25 <Eddi|zuHause> i think i wanted to teach procedures to nml twice, but got stuck both times 22:15:32 <andythenorth> faster compile, reduced file size, and often simpler code 22:15:45 <andythenorth> or at least, the complexity is distributed better :P 22:22:17 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 22:33:28 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 22:37:17 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TinCanTech opened issue #8336: [Game play] Vehicle disasters should always be banner headlines. https://git.io/JTjuk 22:44:13 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on issue #8336: [Game play] Vehicle disasters should always be banner headlines. https://git.io/JTjuk 22:44:34 <FLHerne> What a strange bug report 23:09:50 <andythenorth> bed 23:09:52 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 23:11:14 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 23:25:21 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 23:40:22 *** DasPoseidon has quit IRC