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00:06:29 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler opened pull request #8688: Feature: Hide block signal GUI by default https://git.io/JtDJs 00:13:56 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler opened pull request #8689: Fix cc39fa9: New orders are non-stop by default https://git.io/JtDJE 00:23:20 *** APTX has joined #openttd 00:49:25 *** snail_UES_ is now known as Guest13497 00:49:25 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 01:11:13 *** berndj-blackout is now known as berndj 01:23:48 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 01:52:45 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 01:52:59 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 02:02:14 *** Trank has joined #openttd 02:02:21 <Trank> hi dudes 02:02:42 <Trank> i found some bugs in last version 02:03:48 <Trank> were to where to describe it to developers for fix? 02:16:39 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 02:20:57 *** Trank has quit IRC 03:10:28 *** Wuzzy2 has joined #openttd 03:11:07 *** Wuzzy has quit IRC 03:28:50 *** debdog has joined #openttd 03:30:12 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 03:32:12 *** D-HUND has quit IRC 04:03:36 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 04:24:14 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] reldred commented on pull request #8480: Multitile depots https://git.io/JtD3Z 04:29:41 <reldred> That’s eerie getting pinged on irc after commenting on GitHub 😅 04:51:45 *** Wuzzy3 has joined #openttd 04:55:07 *** Wuzzy2 has quit IRC 05:08:51 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler commented on issue #8631: Graph window - Allow the choice of a graph background https://git.io/JtBA2 05:57:08 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler opened pull request #8690: Change: Darken graph grid lines for legibility https://git.io/JtDGE 06:10:34 *** Wuzzy3 has quit IRC 07:22:38 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 07:51:36 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 07:58:28 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 08:01:59 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 08:05:40 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 08:26:32 <andythenorth> yo 08:29:08 <Wolf01> o/ 08:31:03 <andythenorth> 'vehicle failed to renew' messages seem to kill my FPS 08:31:13 <andythenorth> they aren't shown, but they are being added to news log 08:31:48 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 08:57:05 <andythenorth> could we support negative running costs for vehicles? 08:57:31 <andythenorth> currently negative value just overflows / wraps 09:14:51 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain approved pull request #8690: Change: Darken graph grid lines for legibility https://git.io/JtD4O 09:16:02 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed issue #8630: Graph window - Colors of the auxiliary grid have not been adjusted to the dark background, which reduces the readability https://git.io/JtBNE 09:16:05 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8690: Change: Darken graph grid lines for legibility https://git.io/JtDGE 09:20:44 <_dp_> now we're getting somewhere xD 09:20:56 <_dp_> I was tempted to make a "Revert dark BG" PR with the motivation "closes more issues (#8630 #8633 #8632) than in solves (#8539)" :p 09:21:11 <TrueBrain> I would have closed that PR with: now I got to close a PR! 09:21:12 <TrueBrain> :) 09:21:24 <TrueBrain> at this point, I am not budging to bullying 09:23:23 <TrueBrain> it cannot be that if you MAKE A LOT OF NOISE AND COMPLAIN EVERYWHERE you get to do what-ever you want ;) 09:23:47 <TrueBrain> that said, 1.11 would have never released with the UI as it was, I just didn't find the motivation to address it yet .. happy 2TallTyler is :) 09:24:04 <TrueBrain> it is funny, how low motivation comes when someone is doing stuff like this :P 09:25:20 <andythenorth> it's really really unhelpful 09:25:55 <TrueBrain> the old saying: you catch more flies with honey, holds true especially in Open Source :) 09:26:51 <Eddi|zuHause> me and low motivation are long time friends 09:27:02 <andythenorth> every now and then I watch this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpAfDUst9wA&t=1s 09:27:05 <TrueBrain> at a certain point they call it depression ;) As a FYI :) 09:27:26 <andythenorth> appreciating that Steve Jobs is a divisive figure, it's still worth watching :P 09:32:08 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8631: Profit window - Not all cargo colours are visible https://git.io/JtBA2 09:32:10 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed issue #8631: Profit window - Not all cargo colours are visible https://git.io/JtBA2 09:32:23 <TrueBrain> I was hoping someone else would close that issue :P 09:32:36 <TrueBrain> but he doesn't like me already anyway, so one more wouldn't hurt :D 09:33:39 <TrueBrain> I did have to change the title, as that was a bit weird 09:34:21 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8680: Feature: configurable refresh-rate and change default to 60fps https://git.io/Jt1ur 09:34:34 <_dp_> there already are different themes for map :p 09:34:55 <TrueBrain> there is? ugh .. that would be horrible 09:35:06 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd suggest a "high visibility" mode, where the graph lines get a thicker outline in a bright colour 09:35:27 <andythenorth> I'd suggest leaving it all alone :) 09:35:36 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: that is a better approach at least :) 09:35:40 <andythenorth> that chart is lolz anyway 09:35:48 <TrueBrain> there are more places that can benefit from ... people who otherwise find things hard to read :D 09:35:56 <_dp_> cmclient does outlines but I'd wait for vanilla to release before experimenting with that 09:36:03 <andythenorth> I have completely distorted FIRS gameplay just to make that chart somewhat legible 09:36:05 <TrueBrain> _dp_: how does that work for map? 09:36:31 <andythenorth> FIRS cargo rates are set algorithmically (with manual tuning) to space out the lines on that chart 09:36:40 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: it'll certainly cover more cases than twiddling around with individual colours all day 09:36:46 <andythenorth> which is a weird-ass way to design gameplay, but we are where we are 09:37:03 <andythenorth> FIRS cargo chains are also designed so they look good in the graphviz flow layouts 09:37:06 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: what I like about it, it goes behind "themes", and just allows a bit of freedom for: how to make the UI better readable :D 09:37:12 <Eddi|zuHause> input from an actual colourblind person might help 09:37:19 <andythenorth> css for the UI 09:37:25 <_dp_> TrueBrain, wdym? there is "land colour used at the smallmap" setting 09:37:25 <andythenorth> html frontend 09:37:36 <TrueBrain> _dp_: ah, that 09:37:45 <TrueBrain> why? 09:37:50 <TrueBrain> (why was it added?) 09:38:04 <andythenorth> because I can't see certain colours on the green, despite having 98% vision acuity 09:38:12 <andythenorth> so I asked for purple, and got purple 09:38:16 <TrueBrain> so they added it for you? Awwwhhh :) 09:38:30 <andythenorth> we used to make progress in the UI and newgrf :) 09:38:32 <andythenorth> in the olden days 09:38:37 <andythenorth> when I was young 09:38:43 <_dp_> dunno why but it's quite annoying when changing the map 09:38:49 <TrueBrain> personally, I am not a fan of all this personal tweaking :P 09:39:08 <andythenorth> we should just make one game, played the way one person decides 09:39:11 <andythenorth> and remove newgrf 09:39:22 <TrueBrain> well, that is a bit drastic 09:39:38 <andythenorth> I forgot the emoji 09:39:44 <TrueBrain> the /s you mean :P 09:40:01 <andythenorth> that's a thing? :) 09:40:08 <TrueBrain> a reddit thing, but yes 09:40:23 <TrueBrain> what a game needs, any game, is people making decisions 09:40:38 <TrueBrain> we are not making a game for everybody 09:40:46 <TrueBrain> we are making a game for the 90% 09:40:49 <TrueBrain> not the 0.001% :) 09:40:57 <TrueBrain> that lesson we learnt in 2006 or so 09:41:02 <TrueBrain> when the amount of settings was such a large list :P 09:41:31 <TrueBrain> take the map colours .. would have been better if that was a NewGRF that could do it 09:41:36 <andythenorth> Freedom! 09:41:38 <TrueBrain> so andythenorth could load "purple" map NewGRF 09:41:48 <TrueBrain> and if 50% of the people download it and use it 09:41:57 <TrueBrain> well, 70% 09:42:02 <TrueBrain> it might be time to switch the default ;) 09:42:26 <andythenorth> moddable UI would be a thing, some of it is already adjustable via newgrf 09:42:38 <andythenorth> icons, colours 09:42:51 <andythenorth> but by accident, not design 09:43:01 <_dp_> TrueBrain, god no 09:43:11 <_dp_> everything newgrf is such a huge nuisance when changing the ui 09:43:31 <TrueBrain> I said it would be "better", not that it is a good idea :D 09:43:38 <andythenorth> these are the downsides of modding frameworks 09:43:50 <andythenorth> API has a cost etc etc 09:43:59 <TrueBrain> another solution would be to have settings-presets, and make it a non-UI setting 09:44:26 <andythenorth> the general case is one thing 09:44:36 <andythenorth> the specific case of the cargo chart is caused by people like me 09:44:43 <_dp_> why not just change industry colors so that they're visible on the green map? :P 09:44:57 <TrueBrain> Path of Exile is a nice example .. their loot filter, by default, is okay-ish 09:45:02 <TrueBrain> it is the opinion of the creators of the game 09:45:04 <TrueBrain> I never ever play with it 09:45:14 <TrueBrain> they allow you to load a file that changes everything about loot 09:45:17 <TrueBrain> colours, background, sound, etc 09:45:21 <TrueBrain> doing that yourself is .. euuuhhhhhhhh 09:45:25 <andythenorth> _dp_ can't remember, long time ago :) 09:45:27 <TrueBrain> but a very few people do that for you 09:45:31 <TrueBrain> so many people load their preset 09:45:36 * andythenorth crashed the game with settings window 09:45:41 <andythenorth> if only I had pulled :P 09:45:45 <andythenorth> or saved my game 09:45:55 <TrueBrain> I like that way of solving that .. it allows people to have an opinion on the matter 09:45:58 <TrueBrain> still deliver a good base game 09:46:05 <TrueBrain> that is not full of nobs to turns for the random player 09:46:26 <andythenorth> winamp skins :P 09:46:34 <_dp_> just fork it! :p 09:46:38 <TrueBrain> but my OpenTTD would look rather different :) 09:46:43 <Eddi|zuHause> <TrueBrain> and if 50% of the people download it and use it <-- as with any non-default option, that'll probably never go above 1% :p 09:46:58 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: well, the survey the other day surprised us 09:47:06 <TrueBrain> caused us to change defaults 09:47:22 <TrueBrain> if something is popular enough, it will get in the top N 09:47:25 <andythenorth> hmm, I have updated master, but is TB 60fps patch rebaseable to that? :P 09:47:27 * andythenorth git clown 09:47:35 <Eddi|zuHause> well... "survey" is a different thing to "random sample" 09:47:39 <TrueBrain> I just pushed a rebased version andythenorth 09:47:49 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: no, it contained a scan of all multiplayer servers 09:48:13 <Eddi|zuHause> even that might have a sampling bias 09:48:20 <TrueBrain> everything has a sample bias 09:48:43 <TrueBrain> I was arguing your "1%" 09:48:52 <TrueBrain> we have ways to see what people do in a more generic context :) 09:48:56 <TrueBrain> so it is not all bad 09:49:05 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8679: Fix: [Cygwin] Fix missing uint definition https://git.io/JtDBy 09:49:29 <andythenorth> TrueBrain you are my hero :) 09:49:30 <andythenorth> for today 09:49:34 <andythenorth> 30fps is so ugh 09:49:39 <andythenorth> I can NEVER go back 09:49:42 <TrueBrain> yeah, playing on 30fps now is really difficult 09:49:49 <TrueBrain> like .. super dupah difficult :P 09:50:37 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8681: Fix: Autorenew failure advice due to bad refit being shown to all companies https://git.io/Jt1P3 09:50:55 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8681: Fix: Autorenew failure advice due to bad refit being shown to all companies https://git.io/JtDB9 09:51:30 <andythenorth> so how we do investigate if queueing news messages smacks FPS? 09:51:37 * andythenorth thinks it does, but eh, confirmation bias 09:51:45 <TrueBrain> open framerate window 09:52:16 <TrueBrain> if what you say is true, the "Graphics rendering" should increase 09:52:22 <TrueBrain> (and possibly "Video output") 09:53:08 <TrueBrain> owh, you can click those numbers 09:53:09 <TrueBrain> and get a graph 09:53:11 <TrueBrain> did not know that 09:53:12 <TrueBrain> hidden feature 09:53:26 <TrueBrain> that is cool 09:53:30 <TrueBrain> like really cool 09:54:08 <LordAro> you've been doing all this graphical stuff and you didn't know about the graph? :o 09:54:21 <TrueBrain> NOTHING on that window suggests things are clickable 09:54:24 <TrueBrain> so no, I did not know about that 09:54:25 <LordAro> nope! 09:54:38 <Eddi|zuHause> this game is full of "hidden features" 09:54:39 <TrueBrain> you cannot click the rates, for example 09:54:43 <andythenorth> seems I made a video previously https://grf.farm/images/mac_fps_news_window.mov 09:54:50 <andythenorth> that video is easily misunderstood 09:55:04 <andythenorth> it's easy to watch with pre-conception, and say 'of course animating the news window is slower' 09:55:09 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: now do it again with my PR, and click on the GRaphics rendering, and video output first 09:55:40 <TrueBrain> now I have to make those graphs in a black background too, not? 09:55:48 * andythenorth has no comment 09:56:37 <TrueBrain> I do not like it is based on 2 seconds, the graphs .. that is slightly too low for me to process the information given 09:56:40 <TrueBrain> you can't have it all :D 09:56:40 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i think i remember discussing news-related slowdown 09:56:47 <andythenorth> you did 09:57:00 <andythenorth> didn't you fix something related to it? 09:57:27 <Timberwo1f> I get this with Timberwolf's Trains (and the other 2x sets). There's clearly a decent number of people using it, but all I know of it is when I get a bug report where the save or screenshot is "full Timberwolf". 09:58:04 <Timberwo1f> If you listened to the 1%, you'd assume "nobody ever plays extra zoom" 09:58:36 <TrueBrain> yeah .. common pitfall to listen to the vocal minority :) 09:59:04 <Timberwo1f> There are definitely people making suggestions who don't actually use it themselves (which is not necessarily a bad thing, but amusing when people suggest "you should add..." something which has been in the set for months) 10:00:06 <andythenorth> I like reddit 10:00:09 <andythenorth> not for reddit 10:00:29 <andythenorth> but it's the same reason I used to go to PC World sometimes to remind myself what actual computer users are like 10:00:35 <andythenorth> not tech bloggers 10:01:20 <TrueBrain> @calc 512 / (1000 / 30) 10:01:20 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 15.36 10:01:36 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: was around here somewhere http://webster.openttdcoop.org/?channel=openttd&date=1565136000#1565207818 10:01:40 <andythenorth> reddit is still surprised by how to build stations 10:02:02 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause thanks 10:02:28 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: if the news problem still exists with my PR, let me know, I might have some ideas what causes that .. but first .. need to be sure we are solving a problem :D 10:02:38 <andythenorth> I am running a test now 10:02:49 <andythenorth> it might be that news is co-incidental, not sure 10:02:58 <TrueBrain> a screenshot of the graphs of the framerate window would help, of those 2 I mentioned 10:03:04 <andythenorth> coincidence now causation etc 10:03:27 <andythenorth> yeah I took screenshots of 'the problem is not showing' 10:03:28 <andythenorth> and now I am waiting for it to show 10:04:44 <andythenorth> ok it's manifested 10:04:57 <andythenorth> very little of interest in the graphs 10:05:27 <andythenorth> a run of "Autorenew failed" messages coincides with FFWD rate dropping from 30x to about 20x 10:05:36 <andythenorth> *coincides* :) 10:05:37 <andythenorth> repro-ed twice 10:05:46 <TrueBrain> show screenshot of graphs plz :) 10:06:56 <andythenorth> now going to replace the vehicles to prove it eliminates the issue 10:07:00 <andythenorth> (might not) 10:07:14 <TrueBrain> the news animation is running in the game-tick 10:07:17 <TrueBrain> that is annoying me 10:07:19 <TrueBrain> not as smooth 10:07:40 <TrueBrain> my 60fps patch breaks the graphs of the frame rate window :D 10:07:40 <TrueBrain> haha 10:07:47 <TrueBrain> they keep rescaling :P 10:08:49 <andythenorth> oops, I have no money in my savegame 10:08:53 <andythenorth> -£1bn or so 10:09:10 <andythenorth> I tested negative running costs, but they overflow, so my trains are horribly unprofitable :) 10:09:15 <andythenorth> can't replace with no money :P 10:09:35 * andythenorth fixes 10:12:58 *** Tulitoma1tti has joined #openttd 10:13:17 <TrueBrain> I do not understand the frame rate window enough to see what I have to do to fix my scaling issue .. 10:13:30 <TrueBrain> it takes 60 points and bases the horizontal axis on that, or something 10:13:33 <TrueBrain> but I do not understand why 10:14:09 * andythenorth wonders how much fps impact the performance graphs have 10:14:17 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 10:14:45 *** Tulitomaatti has quit IRC 10:15:29 <TrueBrain> I should ask nielsm when he is here I guess, hopefully he remembers :) 10:17:30 <Timberwo1f> andythenorth: Yeah, watching people play the game is interesting. I had to pause and go for a short lie down after seeing Master Hellish use the m*n station size selection buttons. 10:17:31 <andythenorth> I have am old video showing that window-shading the FPS window makes a measurable difference to FPS 10:17:35 <andythenorth> an * 10:17:36 <Timberwo1f> "everyone" uses drag&drop, right? :p 10:18:29 <andythenorth> hmm so many factors confounding this 10:18:35 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8680: Feature: configurable refresh-rate and change default to 60fps https://git.io/Jt1ur 10:18:37 *** Timberwo1f is now known as Timberwolf 10:18:40 <TrueBrain> wait, you can still select station sizes old-style? 10:19:00 <andythenorth> I suspect my mac is now thermal throttling as FFWD has dropped to 15x for no obvious reason 10:19:03 <TrueBrain> why did that never get removed, lol 10:19:12 <andythenorth> because someone's workflow might be broken 10:19:21 <andythenorth> and nerds hate social conflict 10:19:28 <andythenorth> or something 10:19:34 <Timberwolf> I can't really talk, I notice from my comments I drive people mad with not using the modern shortcuts and doing things the way Chris intended. 10:19:40 <andythenorth> oh wait, maybe nerds love social conflict, I can't remember 10:19:48 <TrueBrain> Timberwolf: haha :D 10:20:17 <andythenorth> yeah, ok so reliable performance measures are way beyond me 10:20:48 <andythenorth> macs have some energy management that will start nice-ing aggressive processes 10:21:02 <Timberwolf> andythenorth: social conflict when we win. The one when we lose is the one we don't like :p 10:21:03 <andythenorth> so leaving OpenTTD on FFWD at 100% of 1 core might trigger that 10:21:12 <andythenorth> Timberwolf 'lol' :) 10:21:50 *** JGR has joined #openttd 10:21:51 <andythenorth> and macs have piss poor thermals, so it might just be nerfing the clock speed because it's now red hot 10:22:20 <andythenorth> I _still_ think something about accruing news messages triggers performance issues, but that's my pet theory right? No reliable evidence 10:22:39 <TrueBrain> well, I asked you for some basic stuff, and all I get back is a lot of text :P So I cannot really help you from here :) 10:22:58 <JGR> On the news FPS issue, one thing that I've noticed is that the whole status bar is redrawn every tick if there are no more ticker items to show, this can be noticeable if there is nothing else happening 10:23:04 <TrueBrain> JGR: lol, that sounds silly :D 10:24:41 <TrueBrain> hmm, odd, news is done in the draw-tick after all 10:24:46 <TrueBrain> so why is it not 60fps smooth 10:26:35 <andythenorth> TrueBrain https://gist.github.com/andythenorth/311126e1d2cb2ad3c31bc86bc02a26d4#gistcomment-3635584 10:26:58 <andythenorth> my conclusion was 'this is junk data' but tell me if you want more :) 10:27:03 <JGR> https://github.com/JGRennison/OpenTTD-patches/commit/bfc26a0180c4bdc262e13dd603bfbb28d516b471 10:27:11 <TrueBrain> which ones had news opening andythenorth ? 10:27:18 <TrueBrain> the second? 10:27:18 <Xaroth> Timberwolf: I use m*n station sizing because it makes it easier to see the total catchment area of a station (read: PAX). drag and drop works in situations where I don't have to care about that (read: non-PAX) 10:27:28 <andythenorth> none, the news opening isn't a cause of performance slow down 10:27:35 <andythenorth> it's a cause of performance speed up 10:27:42 <TrueBrain> so now you confuse me completely :D 10:28:02 <andythenorth> like I said, it's counter-intuitive 10:28:02 <TrueBrain> you started this conversation with a movie that opening news is an fps impact? :D 10:28:02 <TrueBrain> so what is the problem exactly :) 10:28:02 <andythenorth> no 10:28:04 <andythenorth> I made the video because nobody believed me 10:28:43 <andythenorth> the problem is that accruing lots of news messages reliably co-incides with reduced FPS 10:28:50 <andythenorth> even if they're never displayed 10:29:05 <andythenorth> but it's not the only cause of low FPS, so it might just be coincidence 10:29:25 <TrueBrain> but it is a way you can reproduce it with 10:29:26 <TrueBrain> so, if I get you right 10:29:31 <TrueBrain> your FF slows down 10:29:31 <TrueBrain> if you get more news? 10:29:36 <andythenorth> yes 10:29:44 <andythenorth> it also slows down with no news 10:29:45 <TrueBrain> okay, if you load a game, do not FF, wait for a lot of news 10:29:45 <andythenorth> https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/1780327/108343295-aed27b80-71d3-11eb-9cef-05d9c9d87ecd.png 10:29:46 <TrueBrain> than FF 10:29:49 <TrueBrain> does that change anything? 10:29:51 <andythenorth> let's see 10:30:13 <TrueBrain> nice JGR, lets upstream that :D 10:31:15 <andythenorth> being cold about it, I think 'the game has slowed down for some reason after some time has passed on FFWD' coincides with 'the game has generated news because it has been running for a while' 10:31:28 <TrueBrain> that is what I want to rule out, yes 10:31:47 <LordAro> gotta love a while loop that ends with "return" 10:32:00 <Eddi|zuHause> those are great 10:32:22 <andythenorth> ha I can't change the news settings :) 10:32:24 <andythenorth> nvm 10:32:29 <andythenorth> one thing at a time 10:32:34 <TrueBrain> funny .. news wants to move at 15ms per step ... 10:32:47 <Eddi|zuHause> "if you ever manage to correctly finish a complete loop, the loop ends". very reminiscent of groundhog day 10:32:50 <TrueBrain> while master has the resolution at 30ms 10:32:59 <TrueBrain> so its animation is always jerky 10:35:40 <TrueBrain> not much we can do about that in the current way it is set up 10:35:41 <TrueBrain> sad 10:36:09 <Eddi|zuHause> 144fps support when? :p 10:36:48 <TrueBrain> with my PR, no problem 10:37:01 <TrueBrain> just not the default :) 10:37:14 <TrueBrain> JGR: will you upstream that patch yourself, or you want me to do it? (I am fine with either) 10:37:54 <JGR> I've rebasing it now, won't be a minute 10:37:54 <JGR> I'm* 10:37:54 <TrueBrain> cool 10:37:54 <Eddi|zuHause> also, fine-grained vehicle movement on x4 zoom 10:38:05 <LordAro> steady on now 10:38:11 <TrueBrain> right, a FF dropdown of some kind .. how to do that .. hmmmmm 10:38:14 <TrueBrain> so many choices 10:38:50 <_dp_> hey, I use 1x7 stations! :p 10:39:13 <LordAro> TrueBrain: i was expecting something like the railtype selector dropdown 10:39:20 <LordAro> i.e. remembers previous setting 10:39:51 <TrueBrain> yeah .. the button should just be toggle-able like it is now 10:40:00 <TrueBrain> and something to select the speed itself 10:40:11 <TrueBrain> we don't have a dot you can drag along a line, do we? 10:40:32 <TrueBrain> as doing it in a list might just be a bit annoyingly long list 10:40:44 *** arikover has joined #openttd 10:41:19 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison opened pull request #8691: Fix: Unnecessary status bar redraws when there is no news to show https://git.io/JtD0D 10:41:30 <Eddi|zuHause> x2, x4, x8, infinite? 10:41:43 <Eddi|zuHause> how many choices do we need? 10:42:30 <Eddi|zuHause> x100? x1000? 10:42:30 <Eddi|zuHause> does that really make a difference? 10:42:49 <andythenorth> I can't find any meaningful connection between frequency of news and FFWD speed; putting it down to co-incidence 10:42:49 <_dp_> dropdown for ff doesn't sound like a good idea :P 10:43:25 <andythenorth> stopping or starting vehicles makes a HUGE difference to FFWD, no surprise :D 10:43:42 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain approved pull request #8691: Fix: Unnecessary status bar redraws when there is no news to show https://git.io/JtD0F 10:43:42 <TrueBrain> tnx JGR 10:45:37 <Timberwolf> andythenorth: Does it slow down if you make your tracks more wiggly? :) 10:46:29 <arikover> Hi! o/ 10:46:58 <andythenorth> Timberwolf yes! How did you guess? 10:46:58 <andythenorth> what is provably hella-slow is opening the 'all trains' window 10:47:50 <NGC3982> uhm, im noticing that my server is turning up twice in the server list 10:47:50 <andythenorth> cuts FFWD from ~30x to ~24x to me at default size on my viewport 10:47:50 <andythenorth> making the window larger cuts it further 10:47:50 <andythenorth> windowshading the window restores FPS 10:47:51 <Timberwolf> andythenorth: I suspect that will be vehicle sprite chain resolution (certainly the case for wiggly tracks) 10:48:07 <andythenorth> I guess drawing pixels is a burden :) 10:48:07 <NGC3982> may that be because the host (openttd.henjoh.se) is reachable both with or without ssl? 10:48:39 * andythenorth considers testing a Horse without all the varaction 2 stuff 10:48:39 <_dp_> NGC3982, I anything I'd guess IPv6 10:48:39 <JGR> The all vehicles windows are redrawn much too often if you have a lot of vehicles 10:48:39 <LordAro> NGC3982: OTTD doesn't use SSL, so no 10:48:59 <Timberwolf> The "all trains" window is one of the highest-density sources of trains to redraw. 10:49:22 <JGR> The whole window is refreshed if a vehicle is updated, even if it's not actually visible with the current filter/scroll position 10:49:49 <JGR> I've got some stuff to get rid of that in my branch 10:49:49 <Timberwolf> Oh wow - yes, that'd do it. 10:49:49 <NGC3982> oh lol i see my LAN game 10:50:06 <NGC3982> _dp_, LordAro: i see. thank you. 10:50:45 <LordAro> NGC3982: sounds like you've got some funky networking going on 10:50:59 <Timberwolf> I was thinking it was just a lot of trains because you wouldn't get that many even carefully lining them up on multiple rows of diagonal track but yeah, if it's drawing everything that could possibly be in the window regardless of whether it's actually in the window... 10:50:59 <LordAro> i wouldn't expect both IPv4 & IPv6 to make a difference to servers displayed 10:51:54 <andythenorth> the larger the window, the more the FFWD speed drop 10:51:54 <andythenorth> so there's something extra going on also 10:51:54 <andythenorth> maybe 10:52:18 <JGR> @Timberwolf, it doesn't actually draw everything in the list, just the visible ones. It's that non-visible vehicles can trigger redrawing of all the visible ones. 10:52:55 <andythenorth> :) 10:53:33 *** JGR has quit IRC 10:54:13 *** jgr has joined #openttd 10:54:46 *** jgr is now known as JGR 10:55:17 <Timberwolf> 1.11 will be such a milestone if all of this makes it in. 17 years in and suddenly the performance and visible smoothness take a massive leap. 10:55:17 <andythenorth> I have a stupid recursive vehicle check running in the graphics chain 10:55:29 <TrueBrain> NGC3982: what server-list? Ingame, or on our website? 10:55:56 <NGC3982> in game 10:55:56 <NGC3982> im having other issues 10:55:56 <TrueBrain> LAN game? 10:55:56 <andythenorth> removing that check increases avg FFWD factor from 8x to 10x with vehicle list window open 10:56:02 <andythenorth> windowshading the window gives FFWD factor of 30x 10:56:02 <NGC3982> TrueBrain: yes, i manually added 192.168..-game and forgot to delete it. 10:56:17 <TrueBrain> :D 10:56:17 <TrueBrain> that makes sense ;) 10:56:25 * andythenorth wonders how evil Horse is 10:56:25 <TrueBrain> our LAN discovery is also not the greatest 10:57:16 <TrueBrain> but it works, I guess :) 10:57:17 <Timberwolf> andythenorth: How many 5-tile trains can you build in game before it drops below 30fps in 1.10? 10:57:41 <andythenorth> 7? 10:57:41 * andythenorth guessing 10:57:42 <NGC3982> my server log tells me that advertising on master server is successfull, but then i get "received a packet with mismatching size from 192.168.1.1:40861" and i cannot join my game. in the server list, i can see it (but not with the host openttd.henjoh.se but with <external ip>:port) and it say the server is offline 10:57:42 <andythenorth> not going to actually try :) 10:57:42 <NGC3982> i dont really know where to start looking 10:58:23 <andythenorth> hmm well 10:58:34 <andythenorth> at 9am I was going to start drawing Freightliner 'swoosh' livery in 8bit pixels 10:58:34 <andythenorth> nvm 10:58:35 * andythenorth distractions 10:58:54 <TrueBrain> NGC3982: https://servers.openttd.org/server/727c030fcdce4561df12a22aeecd4495 <- this your server? 10:58:54 <NGC3982> yes 10:59:21 <Timberwolf> Timberwolf's Trains is really punishing, you can only get about 300 before it starts having noticeable performance impact on a midrange i5, if you use a lot of the 9/8 and larger vehicles. 10:59:29 <TrueBrain> okay, so a few things first: master-server lists always by IP, not by host. On a technical level, there isn't really a way to know the host :) 10:59:29 <TrueBrain> that is why you see IPs there 10:59:40 <TrueBrain> this is true for almost all games out there btw :) 10:59:56 <NGC3982> oh sorry, i ment server name 10:59:57 <TrueBrain> the servername is correct, not? 11:00:09 <TrueBrain> "openttd.henjoh.se #1 " ? 11:00:09 <NGC3982> "openttd.henjoh.se #1" is correct on the site, but not in client. 11:00:20 <TrueBrain> yes, this is the following problem 11:00:50 <TrueBrain> this will most likely work for anyone outside your network 11:00:50 <TrueBrain> but inside your network, it tries to query this server on the IP and port 11:00:50 <TrueBrain> so the 10001 11:00:50 * NGC3982 thought he hairpin:et it correctly 11:00:50 <TrueBrain> I would suspect this packet gets routed wrong 11:00:50 <NGC3982> i see 11:00:56 <TrueBrain> it is normal that you have to use your internal IP to join servers on your local network 11:00:56 <NGC3982> well, i can try it by accessing with 4g or something external 11:01:12 <andythenorth> why aren't vehicles a simpler state machine? o_O 11:01:12 * andythenorth says words 11:01:13 <TrueBrain> this often has to do with how router redirect traffic etc 11:01:18 <TrueBrain> this is why you still see an IP + port 11:01:26 <TrueBrain> as it cannot query the server for more details 11:01:44 <TrueBrain> clients get from the master-server a huge list of IP+ports to query 11:01:44 <TrueBrain> and they query them again for the exact details 11:01:50 <TrueBrain> (as the info on the master-server is lagging behind a few minutes) 11:02:28 <TrueBrain> from my computer, I can query your server just fine 11:02:54 <TrueBrain> and even join, as seen in chat :) 11:04:16 *** XeryusTC has quit IRC 11:06:47 *** ^Spike^ has quit IRC 11:06:49 *** planetmaker has quit IRC 11:06:49 <NGC3982> perfect 11:06:49 <NGC3982> thanks a bunch 11:06:49 <TrueBrain> no worries 11:06:49 <TrueBrain> enjoy the game :) 11:06:49 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison opened pull request #8692: Fix: Whole status bar instead of money widget refreshed on money change https://git.io/JtDEA 11:06:49 <andythenorth> FIRS industries also have measurable effect on FFWD speed 11:06:49 <andythenorth> according to the 100% scientific method of putting the viewport over a single industry, then after a minute or so, magic bulldozing it 11:06:49 <JGR> Some of the tile animation stuff has a noticeable performance cost 11:07:02 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8692: Fix: Whole status bar instead of money widget refreshed on money change https://git.io/JtDuL 11:07:56 <_dp_> yeah, was just typing the same question xD 11:07:56 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: the question is, is that a problem 11:07:56 <andythenorth> I suspect it's not very interesting 11:07:56 <andythenorth> drawing more things takes longer 11:08:00 <andythenorth> drawing animated things takes longer than that 11:08:03 <TrueBrain> exactly 11:08:50 <TrueBrain> static const byte * const arrangements[] = { arrange14, arrange15, arrange16, arrange17, arrange18, arrange19, arrange20 }; 11:08:50 <andythenorth> the interesting part is to eliminate industries from the visible viewport if trying to test other performance things 11:08:50 <TrueBrain> wtf ..... I don't even ... wtf ... is this .. GUI doing? 11:09:22 <andythenorth> I was testing earlier and the game built 2 industries in my viewport whilst testing, which is non-negligible affect 11:09:22 *** Hazzard has quit IRC 11:09:22 *** Osai has quit IRC 11:09:22 <_dp_> TrueBrain, let me guess, adjusts toolbar buttons for different widths? 11:09:22 *** avdg has quit IRC 11:09:38 <TrueBrain> I think so .. but the comments are rather vague 11:09:55 <TrueBrain> right, lets just ignore this 11:10:05 <TrueBrain> and continue on my quest 11:10:29 *** Hirundo has quit IRC 11:10:29 *** Yexo has quit IRC 11:10:29 *** Ammler has quit IRC 11:10:29 *** V453000 has quit IRC 11:10:40 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on pull request #8692: Fix: Whole status bar instead of money widget refreshed on money change https://git.io/JtDuO 11:11:34 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8692: Fix: Whole status bar instead of money widget refreshed on money change https://git.io/JtDu3 11:11:34 <andythenorth> in a busy area of map, 7 industries cuts FFWD from 14x to 6x 11:11:34 <TrueBrain> JGR: ironically, that is the only call to SetWindowWidgetDirty that uses a magic number :D 11:11:44 <TrueBrain> the one bad example :P :D 11:11:56 <andythenorth> but the area is full of trains, and the trains have much more impact 11:11:56 <andythenorth> stopping all the visible trains, FFWD goes to 50x 11:12:08 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: if you can share your savegame, I can check if this happens on other videodrivers too 11:13:03 <TrueBrain> WID_S_LEFT, ///< Left part of the statusbar; date is shown there. 11:13:18 <TrueBrain> I wonder why it isn't called WID_S_DATE 11:13:19 <TrueBrain> same for RIGHT :P 11:13:19 <TrueBrain> but okay, that is just me :) 11:13:51 <andythenorth> TrueBrain you'd need a stack of unreleased grfs, I _can_ zip them if you want? :) 11:14:01 <TrueBrain> sure 11:14:01 * andythenorth is the worst tester ever for this reason 11:15:26 <TrueBrain> its okay, at least you don't write 8 identical questions in a row to ask a simple thing :) 11:15:47 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison updated pull request #8692: Fix: Whole status bar instead of money widget refreshed on money change https://git.io/JtDEA 11:16:53 <JGR> Should be sorted now 11:17:24 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain approved pull request #8692: Fix: Whole status bar instead of money widget refreshed on money change https://git.io/JtDuu 11:17:45 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8689: Fix cc39fa9: New orders are non-stop by default https://git.io/JtDu2 11:18:08 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8691: Fix: Unnecessary status bar redraws when there is no news to show https://git.io/JtD0D 11:18:08 <andythenorth> TrueBrain forum DM 11:18:21 <andythenorth> think I got all the grfs :P 11:18:21 <andythenorth> so many grfs in my openttd dir 11:18:38 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: I only see a message with "..." :D 11:18:40 <andythenorth> oh this new files interface :) 11:18:58 <andythenorth> fixed 11:19:55 <andythenorth> I normally test general FFWD performance in SE corner of map 11:20:00 <andythenorth> then try other areas 11:20:32 <TrueBrain> had to download a few grfs from BaNaNaS, but that is fine 11:20:49 <andythenorth> SE corner gives pretty reliable 32x for some time, until whatever performance hog / throttling is hit after 10 or so years on FFWD 11:21:19 <TrueBrain> Eggweed Docks etc? 11:22:01 <andythenorth> I push map all the way to SE, so it's mostly black 11:22:10 <andythenorth> just sea, rocks, black tiles 11:22:27 *** planetmaker has joined #openttd 11:22:27 *** avdg has joined #openttd 11:22:27 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o planetmaker 11:22:36 <andythenorth> gives 32x 11:22:36 <TrueBrain> k .. doing ~7x simulation on FF 11:22:45 <TrueBrain> (at 60fps) 11:23:21 <andythenorth> Eggweed Docks area gives about 10x game speed factor 11:23:29 *** Hazzard has joined #openttd 11:23:44 <TrueBrain> let me disable autosave too 11:23:54 <andythenorth> centering viewport on Slugsburg Train Depot #9 gives about 6x game speed factor 11:23:56 <TrueBrain> I am now in SE, doing 7x 11:24:04 <TrueBrain> it sometimes drop to 5x 11:24:04 *** Hirundo has joined #openttd 11:24:21 <andythenorth> what screen resolution? 11:24:24 <TrueBrain> doing 10 years takes me a bit longer :P 11:24:27 <TrueBrain> 1024x768 11:24:37 * andythenorth changes 11:25:06 <andythenorth> reducing screen resolution gives me 32x in SE corner 11:25:07 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 11:25:10 <andythenorth> stable 11:25:23 <andythenorth> 1024x768 11:25:36 <TrueBrain> if you open the graph of Gameloop 11:25:42 <TrueBrain> you see that there are some nasty spikes happening 11:25:46 <andythenorth> yup 11:25:48 <TrueBrain> at those points the simulation drops 11:26:01 <TrueBrain> but otherwise, if this is what you mean, that is nothing special really 11:26:33 <andythenorth> I'm going to run it to 2050 or so 11:26:36 <LordAro> are those "nasty spikes" actually "the game" ? :p 11:26:44 <TrueBrain> monthly loops etc, yes 11:26:49 <andythenorth> they have negligible impact on FFWD factor 11:27:00 <TrueBrain> if I look at Saggington South, performance drops a lot :P 11:27:11 <TrueBrain> takes a lot more effort to draw that :D 11:27:16 <TrueBrain> but that too is to be expected, honestly 11:27:31 <andythenorth> yes 11:27:34 *** V453000 has joined #openttd 11:27:38 <andythenorth> go to Slugsburg Train Depot #9 11:27:44 <andythenorth> I think it's all as expected 11:27:54 <andythenorth> then stop all trains, difference should be huge but expected 11:28:08 *** XeryusTC has joined #openttd 11:28:20 <TrueBrain> yup 11:28:40 <TrueBrain> so I think the slowdowns you have been talking about for months is something we just call "the game" :D 11:29:49 <TrueBrain> this mostly becomes a problem if the simulation goes below 1x without FF :) 11:29:50 <andythenorth> I think there are lots of causal factors, and we don't have a stable benchmark, and it would be hard to create one 11:29:50 <andythenorth> which makes the mac performance reports hard to understand 11:29:50 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8692: Fix: Whole status bar instead of money widget refreshed on money change https://git.io/JtDEA 11:29:50 *** Samu has joined #openttd 11:30:03 <TrueBrain> well, if this is what people have been reporting 11:30:03 <TrueBrain> honestly 11:30:03 <TrueBrain> that has nothing to do with "mac" 11:30:19 <TrueBrain> but just a wrong perception of what is going on :) 11:30:35 <andythenorth> well my numbers include all of Michi's changes 11:30:43 <andythenorth> which gave a plausible 10x improvement to FFWD for most of the map 11:30:55 <LordAro> and that's with your terrible i9 :p 11:30:55 <TrueBrain> the faster we make rendering, the more time there is for ff 11:31:15 <TrueBrain> this holds true for all drivers, and why I look forward to OpenGL 11:31:17 <andythenorth> and michi's changes also hold the non-FFWD fps at a 1.02x or so 11:31:22 <TrueBrain> but we should aim for a stable game at non-FF 11:31:33 *** Ammler has joined #openttd 11:31:42 <TrueBrain> balancing around "how fast FF is" is a silly measurement :) Just a fun one, but not one with a lot of content :) 11:31:59 <TrueBrain> with my PR and OpenGL PR, you can hit 9999x simulation speed on empty maps :P 11:32:04 <TrueBrain> pretty stable even :D 11:32:14 <Eddi|zuHause> that's a common problem with metrics. people tend to focus on "easy to measure" instead of "actually helpful" 11:32:25 <andythenorth> ok I'm now in 2044, and FFWD factor has dropped from 32x to 19x 11:32:37 <andythenorth> what's unknown, is that just my mac thermally throttling? 11:32:42 * andythenorth lets it cool down 11:33:10 <andythenorth> it's red hot to touch currently 11:33:12 <TrueBrain> so yeah, if people have been reporting "mac is slow" because their FF was too low .. we can just close those tickets :P 11:33:19 *** Yexo has joined #openttd 11:33:19 *** ^Spike^ has joined #openttd 11:33:19 *** Osai has joined #openttd 11:33:25 <TrueBrain> I mean, mine is 5x, where yours is 32x 11:33:34 <andythenorth> nah, the mac non-FFWD game speed was also running at 0.6x or 0.8x sometimes 11:33:38 <TrueBrain> so that means I should also create a ticket SDL is slow? :D 11:33:42 <andythenorth> but with no reproducibility 11:33:55 <andythenorth> I think that should be gone now 11:33:56 <TrueBrain> we have to be careful not to hunt our own tail here :) 11:34:22 <TrueBrain> so as long as you report 10+x simulation speed no FF, I am happy with the games you are running 11:34:22 <andythenorth> TL;DR I'd like to draw a line under mac peformance reports 11:34:57 <TrueBrain> right, time for lunch .. after that ... fiddling with how "FF dropdown" should look 11:35:04 <TrueBrain> I wonder how mad people get if I add a 0.5x 11:35:19 <andythenorth> youtube 'play slow' button 11:35:51 <andythenorth> letting the mac cool down _might_ have restored FPS 11:36:09 <andythenorth> didn't help that the game built an animated FIRS industry directly behind the FPS window, and I didn't notice :P 11:36:11 <andythenorth> testing is lolz 11:37:07 <TrueBrain> Might need a "network tick" too, which is used for the rate of docommands 11:37:31 * Timberwolf lives in a 1930s house with a few rooms that don't (yet) have anything covering the floorboards, having a nice toasty Mac to work on has been a feature. 11:37:34 * andythenorth needs the CPU temperature measuring thing 11:37:49 <andythenorth> Timberwolf does it keep the spiders away too? 11:37:57 * andythenorth has similar floorboards, the spiders climb through the cracks 11:38:48 <LordAro> it's funny, with full animation turned on i get 5x FF 11:38:49 <Timberwolf> We're not too bad for spiders, mice are a problem though. 11:38:51 <LordAro> with it turned off, 350x 11:38:52 <JGR> @Truebrain, that sounds like frame_freq? 11:39:50 <andythenorth> LordAro full animation is such a pig :) 11:39:50 <LordAro> normal run seemingly sitting at 0.95x though, which is a bit odd 11:39:54 <Timberwolf> I should probably go round checking all the airbricks are rodent-proof. 11:40:01 <andythenorth> traps :P 11:40:02 <JGR> LordAro, how much water you have on screen will probably make a significant difference there 11:40:06 <TrueBrain> JGR: yes, but it is now coupled to the game tick, so they cannot work independently :) 11:40:24 <Timberwolf> Yep, the traps get quite sad when you're emptying them though :( 11:40:39 <TrueBrain> LordAro: with my PR? :) 11:40:43 <andythenorth> Timberwolf this did catch us a mouse, using nutella as bait https://www.buyspares.co.uk/product.pl?pid=1656106&utm_source=google&utm_medium=base&utm_campaign=products&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIpKey6Kzz7gIVCNPtCh1NuAxTEAQYAiABEgIVD_D_BwE 11:40:43 <LordAro> JGR: 15x over land :) 11:40:46 <LordAro> TrueBrain: no, this is master 11:40:51 <andythenorth> then you have the problem of, now we have a mouse 11:41:04 <TrueBrain> Master misses deadlines constantly, so 0.95 isn't weird 11:41:09 <andythenorth> I have also caught a mouse by pure skill, using a colander 11:41:17 * andythenorth second career, rodent catcher 11:41:20 <TrueBrain> Check my PR, should fix it :) 11:41:27 <LordAro> ah, very good 11:41:47 <TrueBrain> Also your FF speed 11:41:47 <TrueBrain> Would love to know if that is true 11:41:47 <TrueBrain> So please try 11:41:47 <andythenorth> LordAro performance is so wildly varying depending on the contents of viewport :) 11:41:47 <TrueBrain> :D 11:41:47 <LordAro> #8680? 11:41:53 <TrueBrain> Yes 11:44:10 <LordAro> why does the performance window have a limit of 9999 ? :p 11:45:46 <Eddi|zuHause> digits are expensive 11:54:07 <LordAro> TrueBrain: something a bit weird - gui windows are being closed before the rest of the window changes - e.g. abandon game -> yes -> <window disappears for a frame> -> return to menu 11:54:11 <LordAro> same for new game 11:54:34 <LordAro> doesn't happen every time, presumably something to do with the gui/game ticks syncing up 11:56:16 <TrueBrain> hmm, yes 11:56:28 <TrueBrain> closing of windows is handled by the draw-tick, I guess 11:57:04 <TrueBrain> yeah, that looks a bit weird, especially as returning to menu takes a long time 11:57:55 <TrueBrain> the question is, does it need fixing .. hmm 12:01:01 <Eddi|zuHause> when i was looking through the screenshot code recently, i noticed there's code to hide the console on taking a screenshot, but none that hides the recently-added "select a screenshot type" window 12:01:27 <LordAro> Eddi|zuHause: i've been irritated by that for a while, could be good to add 12:01:29 <LordAro> TrueBrain: yes, imo 12:01:41 <LordAro> bit confusing (albeit briefly) about what's happening 12:01:56 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has joined #openttd 12:02:08 <TrueBrain> this is already the case in several other places 12:02:13 <TrueBrain> where windows close too early 12:02:16 <JGR> I added something for that here: https://github.com/JGRennison/OpenTTD-patches/commit/a65be9b7471753603ecc37f3234125fc06c40853 12:02:21 <TrueBrain> so let me rephrase: does it need fixing in my PR :) 12:03:58 <LordAro> i'm only referring to your PR :) 12:04:45 <TrueBrain> it is always this balance, how much stuff do you put in a single PR :) 12:04:45 <TrueBrain> on a few other places this also behaves poorly, in master already 12:04:45 <TrueBrain> so should we address those all at once 12:04:47 <TrueBrain> can we find them all :D 12:05:14 <LordAro> well it makes existing issues more obvious 12:05:23 <TrueBrain> exactly 12:05:31 <LordAro> so the commit fixing them should come first, but it should be fixed in the same PR :p 12:05:46 <TrueBrain> if we go down that route, can such PR ever be done? 12:05:55 <TrueBrain> as there are other side-effects becoming apparent from this PR 12:06:05 <TrueBrain> that always have been there, but people are less likely to "see" 12:06:10 <TrueBrain> that is the balance I am trying to find :) 12:06:30 <LordAro> true 12:06:35 <nielsm> I've been thinking a bit, with that stupid argument on tt-forums, would it perhaps be an idea to add extra text to the landscape selection button tooltips? 12:06:37 <LordAro> but some are more obvious than others 12:06:56 <TrueBrain> I am not disagreeing it should be fixed btw :) Just thinking about what is the best approach here 12:07:26 <TrueBrain> nielsm: saying what? (honest question) 12:08:03 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 12:08:10 <TrueBrain> LordAro: well, that is the fun thing: while toying with the UI, I found many weird things that are obvious to me, but nobody reported any of them :P 12:08:32 <LordAro> TrueBrain: i'm reporting at least one of them! 12:08:48 <TrueBrain> and I am acknowleding it :D 12:08:52 <LordAro> it's one that was immediately obvious to me 12:09:02 <LordAro> and one that everyone will experience 12:10:02 <nielsm> "Select 'temperate' landscape style. A lush terrain with endless possibilities." "Select 'sub-arctic" landscape style. A cold, mountaneous terrain where the snow presents a challenge." "Select 'sub-tropical' landscape style. A warm landscape, where the flat desert and mountaneous rainforest regions must be connected to prosper." "Select 'toyland' landscape style. Despite the playful appearance, 12:10:02 <nielsm> this fantasy world presents a real challenge." 12:10:19 <nielsm> something like that 12:10:31 <TrueBrain> that is the part I try to balance .. how big of an impact is it really? As the mouse hangs during that time anyway, which is another thing I find rather annoying 12:10:31 <TrueBrain> especially if you have many NewGRFs 12:10:32 * andythenorth wonders if someone could draw the chart of how 'max height level', 'flatness', 'roughness' and 'variety distribution' interact 12:10:35 <TrueBrain> so I wonder if that shouldn't be addressed a different way 12:10:35 <andythenorth> and would it look like? https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/VehicleRefitting 12:10:47 <TrueBrain> to be clear, not arguing it should be fixed LordAro , I just wonder what the scope of my PR should be :) 12:10:58 <LordAro> andythenorth: 4D charts are quite difficult to draw 12:10:58 <TrueBrain> nielsm: not a bad idea :) 12:11:03 <andythenorth> and also a version where the water amount means that not enough height levels can be provided 12:11:30 <andythenorth> also the sematics of 'flatness' I didn't get into 12:11:35 <andythenorth> because 'le oof' 12:16:21 <Timberwolf> nielsm: "Despite the playful appearance, this fantasy world will sear your eyeballs into raw sludge within 20-25 minutes" if the user has "Original (Windows)" or "Original (DOS)" selected as their baseset. 12:16:27 <TrueBrain> LordAro: mainly, I have been wondering if we shouldn't thread the GameLoop instead of the drawing loop, and keep the mouse working during "though times" 12:16:47 <TrueBrain> for example, the abandon game, hangs the game for 3+ seconds for me 12:16:55 <TrueBrain> (sometimes with sometimes without the dialog :P) 12:16:57 <LordAro> TrueBrain: yeah, that's not ideal 12:17:16 <LordAro> Timberwolf: blasphemy 12:17:40 <TrueBrain> but it is a pretty huge change, I have noticed :D 12:20:02 <TrueBrain> hmm, so when you click "Ok", the window itself does a "delete this", so if the draw-tick hits before the game-tick, the window will not be drawn 12:20:59 <TrueBrain> this is mostly because our game-mode stuff is always delayed 12:21:16 <TrueBrain> (changes to game-mode) 12:22:02 <TrueBrain> this is where "hanging" helps out 12:22:53 <TrueBrain> if we want to keep the UI interactive, that won't work either 12:25:03 <TrueBrain> a solution would be to not close those UIs in those cases, as the switching of the game-mode will do that anyway 12:25:03 *** Hazzard has quit IRC 12:25:27 *** Hazzard has joined #openttd 12:25:52 <TrueBrain> multiplayer already does that, lol 12:27:05 <nielsm> I thought about adding volume sliders to the Game Options window where you can switch sound and music sets 12:27:12 <nielsm> so you can adjust the volume from the main menu 12:27:25 <Timberwolf> Oh yes, that would be nice. 12:27:27 <TrueBrain> and not force you to go ingame anymore to change volume? 12:27:32 <TrueBrain> that sounds like a regression 12:27:37 <LordAro> :D 12:27:39 <TrueBrain> I like that you have to start a new game before you can change volume! 12:27:44 <TrueBrain> THAT IS HOW I ALWAYS PLAYED IT /s :D 12:27:44 <Xaroth> wait, making it easier for users?!? 12:27:49 <TrueBrain> sorry ... it has to come out ... :P 12:27:55 <TrueBrain> go for it nielsm , sounds like a good idea :) 12:28:19 * Timberwolf prepares his "being assaulted by HONK HONK when you open the game is vital and shouldn't be changed" ticket. 12:28:19 <TrueBrain> hahahahaha 12:28:31 *** Samu has quit IRC 12:29:52 <Timberwolf> Which titlegame is it that has the boat depart almost immediately as you load the game, anyway? 12:34:27 <andythenorth> also crossing bells :) 12:35:53 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8680: Feature: configurable refresh-rate and change default to 60fps https://git.io/Jt1ur 12:36:25 <TrueBrain> LordAro: for now, fixed the issue you pointed out with a bit of a hack .. I want to fix it properly, but I rather keep that for another PR 12:36:25 <TrueBrain> at least it no longer regresses 12:36:49 * JGR is a big fan of NoSound and NoMusic 12:38:00 <TrueBrain> there is so much work to do here .. we have so many different ways of fixing problems stacked on top of each other :D Modal windows solved a similar problem as draw-threads did in a completely different way :P 12:40:29 <TrueBrain> nielsm: also a good improvement for music, if there is not a valid music player, that it doesn't try 10 news songs a second constantly all the time all day every day :D 12:41:01 <nielsm> TrueBrain definitely yes... 12:41:45 <TrueBrain> the fast-foward button is funny .. if you enable it, it disables itself during autosave .. but if you press it just at that moment, you don't disable it 12:41:53 <TrueBrain> so sometimes you need a few clicks before you get it disabled 12:42:15 <TrueBrain> why does it disable during autosave? 12:42:44 <TrueBrain> Also turn off fast-forward cause with that saving takes Aaaaages 12:42:53 <TrueBrain> someone was melodramatic :P 12:43:47 <TrueBrain> ah, it restores the state as it was when saving started 12:44:17 <TrueBrain> when threaded, I would argue, it is no longer true saving takes "ages" when FF is on 12:44:21 <TrueBrain> as it happens on another thread 12:44:26 <TrueBrain> is that a wrong assumption? 12:44:56 <LordAro> what happens when FF is so fast that it hits another autosave before finishing the last one? 12:45:10 <TrueBrain> assert(!_sl.saveinprogress); for sure 12:45:24 <LordAro> that's probably why then :) 12:45:33 <TrueBrain> not what the comment says :) 12:45:45 <TrueBrain> but it is a fair point 12:46:25 <TrueBrain> so much global state ... 12:47:07 <TrueBrain> while saving is pretty isolated 12:47:07 <TrueBrain> just the state of what saving is doing, is global :) 12:47:44 <TrueBrain> you can spend weeks in this code :P 12:47:45 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8680: Feature: configurable refresh-rate and change default to 60fps https://git.io/Jt1ur 12:48:01 <JGR> If saving is still happening when another autosave happens, the new autosave request is just dropped silently 12:48:48 <TrueBrain> if (!_do_autosave) ShowErrorMessage(STR_ERROR_SAVE_STILL_IN_PROGRESS, INVALID_STRING_ID, WL_ERROR); 12:49:02 <TrueBrain> but it is still a valid point, disabling FF during autosave makes it less likely this to happen 12:49:16 <TrueBrain> on the other hand .. do you want saves that quickly :P 12:51:43 <TrueBrain> but okay, lets not step into this rabbit hole .. 12:57:39 <andythenorth> https://i1.wp.com/nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/06/elmer-fudd-gun-1.jpg?quality=80&strip=all&ssl=1 12:59:49 <TrueBrain> running the game at 0.25x the speed is funny 13:00:00 <TrueBrain> it shows graphical issues a lot better 13:00:31 <LordAro> could add it if newgrf_developer is enabled :) 13:02:19 <TrueBrain> https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/1663690/108360765-e51ef380-71f1-11eb-8f38-f5a397fba477.png 13:02:35 <TrueBrain> the engine of the truck jumps up many pixels 13:02:37 <TrueBrain> and the wagon clips in the bridge 13:02:37 <TrueBrain> :D 13:03:27 <TrueBrain> other than that, it is really funny to play at 0.25x :D 13:03:47 <TrueBrain> so much time to do things 13:04:04 <Eddi|zuHause> well, they could have used var 62... 13:04:04 <Eddi|zuHause> or 45 13:05:20 <TrueBrain> it does, however, require subpixel vehicle movement :P 13:05:21 <TrueBrain> they now jump constantly :D 13:05:27 <TrueBrain> as in, move fluent for 4 pixels, stand still for 1 frame, move again 13:05:42 <TrueBrain> rounding errors are a bitch 13:05:55 *** JGR has quit IRC 13:06:48 <Eddi|zuHause> also, discrepancy between diagonal and straight movement speed 13:06:48 <TrueBrain> https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/1663690/108361201-71c9b180-71f2-11eb-9be8-b083e9ce5399.png <- derailment! 13:06:48 <Eddi|zuHause> and distance distortion 13:06:48 <LordAro> TrueBrain: those have always been obvious :p 13:06:48 <TrueBrain> yes 13:06:53 <TrueBrain> the latter for sure 13:07:03 <TrueBrain> the first I always saw being weird 13:07:03 <TrueBrain> but could never put my finger on it 13:07:27 <Eddi|zuHause> that's part of why i started CETS, but that's not really been optimized either 13:08:19 <Timberwolf> Same, in fact my 12/8 and longer vehicles are worse than default. 13:08:33 <TrueBrain> so, FF ... 2x, 4x, 8x, 16? 13:08:33 <TrueBrain> 2x, 4x, 6x, 8x, 10x? 13:08:46 <Timberwolf> Well... not worse than if you had a 12/8 vehicle using the 8-sprite rotation scheme, but definitely worse than an 8/8 vehicle. 13:08:46 <LordAro> 16, imo 13:09:06 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: maybe x2, x5, x10? 13:09:21 <TrueBrain> I will toy with them all 13:09:32 <Eddi|zuHause> progression between x8 and x10 seems pointless 13:09:49 <Timberwolf> I like powers of 2. 13:10:08 <Timberwolf> x2, x4, x8, "show off my single-thread CPU performance" 13:10:41 <Eddi|zuHause> that's what i said earlier 13:10:45 <LordAro> "maximum", if you were wanting an actual name for it :p 13:13:30 *** ^Spike^ has quit IRC 13:13:53 <Eddi|zuHause> warp 13:13:57 *** Yexo has quit IRC 13:13:57 <LordAro> "you might miss a decade if you're not paying attention" 13:13:57 <TrueBrain> I know how I would like it in the GUI, but we don't have a widget for that yet ... and inventing something new might not be the best thing 13:13:57 <TrueBrain> on the other hand, it might be useful for many other places too :P 13:13:57 <Timberwolf> Make it like the swing controls from old golf games, where you hold down the button longer before releasing for more acceleration. 13:13:57 *** Osai has quit IRC 13:13:57 *** avdg has quit IRC 13:13:57 *** Hazzard has quit IRC 13:13:57 *** Ammler has quit IRC 13:13:57 *** XeryusTC has quit IRC 13:13:57 *** V453000 has quit IRC 13:13:57 *** Hirundo has quit IRC 13:13:57 <Timberwolf> It can start shaking once you're above 16x, 13:13:57 <TrueBrain> haha :D 13:13:57 <LordAro> haha 13:13:57 <LordAro> something up with ottdc today 13:18:30 <TrueBrain> poor ottdc :( 13:20:03 <NGC3982> what does the c stand for? 13:20:04 <nielsm> coop 13:22:44 <TrueBrain> okay, turns out, 16x is a bit silly 13:22:55 <TrueBrain> so 2x, 4x, 8x seems to be sufficient 13:22:56 <TrueBrain> needs more testing ofc 13:23:12 <TrueBrain> and 2-4-8 or 2-5-10 doesn't really matter at that point 13:24:06 *** Tulitoma1tti is now known as Tulitomaatti 13:26:05 <andythenorth> so 0.25x is new daylength? 13:27:16 <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> so 0.25x is new daylength? <-- not how it works :p 13:27:30 <andythenorth> for shame 13:27:48 *** avdg has joined #openttd 13:31:51 <TrueBrain> depends on how you define daylength 13:31:51 <TrueBrain> hmm, dropdown feels weird 13:31:54 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 13:33:47 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 13:33:59 *** XeryusTC has joined #openttd 13:36:45 <TrueBrain> you don't see what you have selected anymore after selecting 13:36:56 <TrueBrain> I wonder ... what about a new window to see your game speed 13:37:03 <TrueBrain> where you can select what you want 13:37:11 <TrueBrain> and possibly even what you are currently reaching 13:37:32 *** Osai has joined #openttd 13:37:34 *** ^Spike^ has joined #openttd 13:37:34 *** Ammler has joined #openttd 13:38:24 * andythenorth seriously considering defining a 512 colour swatch 13:38:42 <TrueBrain> what is preventing you? 13:41:38 *** Hazzard has joined #openttd 13:42:15 <andythenorth> having a clear idea of 'why' 13:42:39 <andythenorth> I use so much of the TTD palette for 'magic' recolouring of my own, it restricts choices 13:43:51 <andythenorth> but there are 13 'wasted' slots for pinks, I could use those 13:44:07 <andythenorth> (this is all pre-processed in my compile) 13:46:37 *** Yexo has joined #openttd 13:46:37 *** V453000 has joined #openttd 13:51:04 *** Hirundo has joined #openttd 13:56:40 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 13:56:40 *** welterde has joined #openttd 13:58:53 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 14:00:26 <supermop_Home_> Timberwolf make it like the spin control in Tekken Bowl 14:01:36 <supermop_Home_> with an arrow swinging back and forth from left to right an you have to time it to get the value you want 14:01:47 <andythenorth> I made flash games like that 14:01:47 <andythenorth> quite addict 14:03:27 <supermop_Home_> TrueBrain who's truck is that? 14:03:32 <TrueBrain> ask andythenorth , his game :P 14:03:32 <TrueBrain> I really do not know :) 14:03:49 <andythenorth> supermop_Home_ Hog 14:04:01 <supermop_Home_> love the grille on front 14:04:24 <supermop_Home_> quite nice work 14:04:55 <supermop_Home_> andythenorth make the start vehicle button like that.... where you got to get it lined up or the vehicle will careen out of control into the gutter 14:05:33 <supermop_Home_> hmm now i want to work on flume more 14:05:44 <supermop_Home_> and make splashes vs wakes when accelerating or decelerating 14:07:43 <supermop_Home_> currently i made the logs spark 14:09:19 *** Samu has joined #openttd 14:13:22 <Samu> hello 14:13:44 <TrueBrain> LordAro: possibly stupid question: I have 2 enums, 1 for the widget, 1 for the internal state. They are in the same order. Is it fine to cast this, or better to have a switch-case matching them? 14:14:18 <LordAro> hmm 14:14:28 <LordAro> why are there 2 enums if they're otherwise identical? 14:14:40 <TrueBrain> as I said: widgets vs internal state 14:14:50 <LordAro> why not reuse one or the other? 14:14:52 <TrueBrain> WID_GS_SLOWER_4X vs GAME_SPEED_SLOWER_4X 14:14:56 <LordAro> or define one in terms of the other 14:14:59 <TrueBrain> because all widgets enums start with WID_ 14:15:14 <TrueBrain> they strictly seen have nothing to do with each other 14:15:18 <TrueBrain> so that is not really logic too 14:15:22 <TrueBrain> they just happen to be in the same order 14:15:23 <Samu> I'm trying to understand what kind of ordering is this https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/15b99f2e7ae0b2ab4bce18c1663dff95220f42e0/src/industry_gui.cpp#L1432-L1440 14:15:41 <LordAro> probably a switch statement is the "technically correct" solution then 14:15:56 <LordAro> though a cast + static_assert might be enough 14:15:58 <TrueBrain> it feels a bit weird, but I have no real problems with it :D 14:16:36 <TrueBrain> no WID_ value is ever defined btw, so yeah, that doesn't seem the correct solution 14:16:39 <TrueBrain> k, will do switch for now 14:16:43 <TrueBrain> people can shoot at it later :P 14:17:10 <TrueBrain> tnx 14:17:30 <Samu> if p1 is 67 and p2 is 50, p1 > p2 so a swap is made 14:17:47 <Samu> then returns (50 << 8) + 67 14:18:31 <Samu> 12867 percentage 14:18:40 <Samu> very confusing 14:22:14 <LordAro> Samu: it's not "percentage" as such 14:22:32 <LordAro> it's just combining the numbers in such a way that you can compare 2 numbers at once 14:23:39 <LordAro> e.g. if a second industry is p1=85, p2=50 14:23:51 <LordAro> even though p2 is the same, it can still compare differently in an easy way 14:24:40 <LordAro> i'm guessing this is relating to industries with more producing cargos 14:27:31 <LordAro> i suspect the best solution would be to compare the average produced cargo percentage across all cargoes 14:29:23 <Samu> i went with sum of percentages 14:29:38 <Samu> but i'm thinking about doing average of percentages 14:29:52 <LordAro> sum of will favour industries with more cargoes 14:29:59 <LordAro> which the whole thing is trying to avoid 14:33:31 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 14:39:30 <TrueBrain> https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/1663690/108372798-76489700-71ff-11eb-92b3-3e52e29e11d5.png 14:39:35 <TrueBrain> not too happy about 1/4th and 1/2th 14:39:56 <TrueBrain> otherwise this seems to be the most intuitive solution I have found 14:41:01 <TrueBrain> https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/1663690/108372984-aee87080-71ff-11eb-97eb-d6c631700b34.png 14:41:02 <TrueBrain> bit better I guess 14:45:37 <LordAro> i'm not sure i like the inconsistency 14:45:55 <TrueBrain> open for suggestions 14:45:55 <LordAro> why not 100% 200% etc? 14:45:57 <TrueBrain> I rather have icons, honestly, but ........ yeah :P 14:46:03 <TrueBrain> that looks really odd too, let me create that for you 14:46:25 <LordAro> yeah, alternatively get Andy to draw some icons :p 14:46:45 <TrueBrain> https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/1663690/108373710-7a28e900-7200-11eb-9092-9c9a7e411cf7.png 14:46:46 <LordAro> then you don't need the window, as you can display the current speed in the toolbar 14:46:52 <LordAro> mm, too long 14:47:02 <TrueBrain> you still need the window ;) 14:47:02 <TrueBrain> but yes, showing it in the toolbar would be cherry-on-top 14:47:14 <LordAro> yeah, but it could be a dropdown instead of a window :p 14:47:15 <TrueBrain> no, dropdown really doesn't work 14:47:18 <LordAro> not really a fan of the window 14:47:18 <TrueBrain> I tried :) 14:47:18 <LordAro> :/ 14:47:34 <TrueBrain> I can give you a build if you really like, but it is really annoying to use 14:47:50 <TrueBrain> what I would prefer, is having a slider you can use 14:47:56 <TrueBrain> but that would require me to invent a widget 14:48:01 <TrueBrain> not sure I am up for that :D 14:48:08 <LordAro> :D 14:48:44 <TrueBrain> few things with dropdown: enabling and selecting become a bit weird 14:48:49 <TrueBrain> does only clicking the button enable/disable it? 14:48:54 <TrueBrain> or do you always have to click a value 14:49:02 <LordAro> in my head, the former 14:49:04 <TrueBrain> I tried both, it both felt like shit 14:49:14 <TrueBrain> the former only works if the top item is "enable/disable" 14:49:15 <TrueBrain> as that is how those menus work 14:49:46 <TrueBrain> so if you only want to enable/disable FF, you get this dropdown jumping at you 14:50:04 <TrueBrain> and yes, it for sure needs icons in that case 14:50:04 <TrueBrain> as otherwise you have no clue on what speed you are 14:50:04 <LordAro> but the railtype dropdown preselects the last used item? 14:50:10 <TrueBrain> all together, it feels like it was trying to fit a square in a circle 14:50:21 <LordAro> mm, fair 14:51:00 <TrueBrain> this approach I took now many games have 14:51:00 <TrueBrain> so it feels a bit more natural to me 14:51:01 <TrueBrain> but I might be COMPLETELY biased :D 14:51:01 <LordAro> hang on, there is a slider widget - in the sound/music window 14:51:35 <TrueBrain> that is a different type of slider, but yes 14:51:35 <TrueBrain> so I can rip that :D 14:51:35 <TrueBrain> but it took me, what, 2 hours to make this GUI 14:51:35 <TrueBrain> so I am a bit scared :P 14:51:35 <TrueBrain> for sure I am going to try :D 14:51:35 <LordAro> just make it have 4 points, rather than 100 or whatever 14:51:35 <TrueBrain> haha, yes 14:51:35 <TrueBrain> discrete values :D 14:52:04 <TrueBrain> what I also want to toy with, is show above these buttons the current simulation speed 14:52:04 <TrueBrain> so you can spot when your CPU is not getting shit done 14:54:21 <TrueBrain> music thing is custom drawn 14:54:55 <TrueBrain> now the question .. do I make a new PR out of this, that is on top of the other 14:54:55 <TrueBrain> or just push it in the same 14:56:53 <TrueBrain> new PR is better 14:57:39 <LordAro> yeah, new PR 14:58:06 <TrueBrain> can I flip the fast-forward button when you slow down .... :D 14:58:06 <TrueBrain> I love gimmicks 14:58:32 *** Flygon has quit IRC 14:59:53 <nielsm> oh yeah that's right, when you have the code to let video drivers update the screen between game loops, you can also slow the speed down since lower tick rate won't affect input responsiveness 14:59:53 <nielsm> nice 14:59:59 <TrueBrain> :D 15:00:04 <TrueBrain> purely by accident, all of this 15:00:07 <TrueBrain> but I am liking it :D 15:00:32 <andythenorth> slider! 15:00:35 <nielsm> and well, you can technically adjust the game speed freely, not just in steps, by having a dynamic ms_per_tick 15:01:02 <TrueBrain> nielsm: absolutely 15:01:02 <TrueBrain> but not sure that makes for good UI 15:01:10 <nielsm> yeah it'll be troublesome UI 15:01:29 * andythenorth wonders what will happen to wording of 'game speed' when we do daylength :D 15:01:29 <nielsm> maybe have a console command if you really want to do it 15:01:29 <andythenorth> which is NOT NOW :) 15:01:29 <TrueBrain> so currently I made it discrete values, and the videodriver translates it into ms 15:01:50 <TrueBrain> but I can also push that a layer higher 15:01:50 <nielsm> (that could also allow dedicated servers to adjust the game speed? unsure if that's a good idea) 15:02:13 <TrueBrain> that the video driver gets an ms value 15:02:21 <TrueBrain> well, I do think that is a good idea, honestly :) 15:02:21 <TrueBrain> but it requires us to decouple network-ticks from game-ticks too 15:02:21 <TrueBrain> say, a dedicated server runs at 10% 15:02:59 <TrueBrain> it would also only allow 2 commands per second or something 15:02:59 <TrueBrain> it would become a bit silly :P 15:03:00 <nielsm> there is that one game server host that's received a lot of critique, one of the critiques I've heard is a claim that they intentionally run the game at a lower rate 15:03:26 <TrueBrain> I guess that has to do with it also decreasing the responsiveness of the game :) 15:03:41 <TrueBrain> as in master I think your game will also become as slow as the server, in terms of GUI 15:03:54 <nielsm> it will yes 15:03:54 <TrueBrain> not sure, honestly 15:04:17 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #8468: Fix #8316: Make sort industries by production and transported with a cargo filter possible https://git.io/JLHah 15:04:17 <TrueBrain> there is some coupling going on there 15:04:17 <Samu> I have a feeling this is going to fail 15:05:16 <Samu> enum struct or enum class? 15:05:24 <LordAro> enum struct is not a thing 15:05:37 *** glx has joined #openttd 15:05:38 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 15:05:38 <Samu> enum struct SorterType : uint8 15:06:05 <LordAro> oh wait 15:06:05 <LordAro> what 15:06:05 <nielsm> uh maybe it means the same thing 15:06:05 <Samu> it compiled 15:06:05 <nielsm> but "enum class" is the normal thing to do 15:06:05 <LordAro> https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/language/enum 15:06:05 <LordAro> so it does 15:06:05 <LordAro> TIL 15:06:43 *** Osai has quit IRC 15:06:43 *** Hirundo has quit IRC 15:06:43 *** Hazzard has quit IRC 15:06:44 *** Ammler has quit IRC 15:06:44 *** XeryusTC has quit IRC 15:06:44 *** planetmaker has quit IRC 15:06:44 *** V453000 has quit IRC 15:06:44 *** avdg has quit IRC 15:06:44 *** Yexo has quit IRC 15:06:48 *** ^Spike^ has quit IRC 15:07:06 <nielsm> "the keywords class and struct are exactly equivalent" it says 15:07:17 <nielsm> so you should be writing "enum class" because "enum struct" will just confuse readers 15:08:17 <Samu> ok, will change 15:09:12 <Samu> linux failed 15:10:08 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #8693: Feature: allow changing the game-speed other than 1x and warp-speed https://git.io/JtDPS 15:10:47 <Samu> 'IndustryDirectoryWindow::SorterType' is not implicitly convertible to 'int' 15:11:12 <nielsm> yes that's one of the features of enum class 15:11:31 *** planetmaker has joined #openttd 15:11:49 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o planetmaker 15:12:42 <TrueBrain> LordAro: https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/8693/commits/282409614d4dc3c8d22b989774b8450ea69a6082#diff-7209f122341722118b8e0247ac6923a36d0f8cdde9ff7a696688b140a6012dd7R349 <- this was why I was asking :D Please let me know if that is just terrible :D (it most likely is :D) 15:13:25 <TrueBrain> looking over my own patch, I think I am just going to call it _game_speed_multiplier, and allow the console to set any number .. I kinda like that idea nielsm :) 15:13:25 <TrueBrain> so you can set it to 0.001 for all I care, up to 10000 for all I care 15:13:29 <TrueBrain> might want to non-float it .. so ... "100" for regular 15:13:49 <glx> TrueBrain: order in game speed enum is weird 15:14:15 <TrueBrain> glx: yeah, I fucked up there :P 15:14:47 <nielsm> call the original/traditional fast-forward "Haugan" 15:14:47 <TrueBrain> which I didn't notice as I used a switch to convert :D 15:14:56 <nielsm> after the Yate Haugan 15:14:56 <TrueBrain> who? 15:14:56 <nielsm> "the game's haugan along" 15:15:20 <TrueBrain> ah, plane 15:15:55 <glx> the unclickable plane 15:15:59 <glx> (without pausing) 15:16:06 <TrueBrain> with 0.25 that is no longer true >:D 15:16:10 <nielsm> or Hyperdart 15:17:36 <TrueBrain> I really need to abstract the gameloop from the videodrivers .. this is just silly, the amount of copy/paste 15:19:27 *** Osai has joined #openttd 15:19:27 *** Ammler has joined #openttd 15:19:27 *** ^Spike^ has joined #openttd 15:21:04 <Samu> how do i covert to int? 15:21:20 <nielsm> static_cast<int>(variable) 15:22:00 *** XeryusTC has joined #openttd 15:22:58 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 15:23:08 *** V453000 has joined #openttd 15:23:10 *** Yexo has joined #openttd 15:24:22 *** avdg has joined #openttd 15:24:47 <Samu> switch (this->industries.SortType()) returns a uint8 though 15:25:50 *** jottyfan has quit IRC 15:27:57 <Samu> then what is the point of uint8 here 15:28:31 <Samu> const enum class SorterType : uint8 15:28:32 <nielsm> the storage size 15:28:32 *** Ammler has quit IRC 15:28:46 <nielsm> and permitted range of integral values 15:30:19 <Samu> but ... it doesn't make sense, if it only works with int 15:30:25 *** ^Spike^ has quit IRC 15:30:47 <Samu> case static_cast<int>(IndustryDirectoryWindow::SorterType::IDW_SORT_BY_PRODUCTION): 15:30:53 *** planetmaker has quit IRC 15:31:33 <LordAro> Samu: cast SortType() to SorterType 15:31:45 <LordAro> or better, make SortType return the correct type 15:32:25 *** Osai has quit IRC 15:32:33 <Samu> SortType is part of sortlist_type.h 15:32:45 <Samu> better not change there 15:33:12 *** XeryusTC has quit IRC 15:34:55 *** Hirundo has joined #openttd 15:37:17 <Samu> ok i think i got it 15:37:22 <Samu> let's see if linux still complains 15:37:36 *** XeryusTC has joined #openttd 15:37:36 *** planetmaker has joined #openttd 15:37:36 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o planetmaker 15:38:11 *** Hazzard has joined #openttd 15:38:13 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #8468: Fix #8316: Make sort industries by production and transported with a cargo filter possible https://git.io/JLHah 15:38:44 *** Ammler has joined #openttd 15:38:47 <Samu> switch (static_cast<IndustryDirectoryWindow::SorterType>(this->industries.SortType())) { 15:38:52 <Samu> gets uglier 15:38:54 <Samu> but ok 15:45:58 * andythenorth might remove cargo_age_period from Horse 15:46:09 <andythenorth> far as I can tell it really is useless 15:46:37 <andythenorth> comparing vehicles with different values for it on same route produces no meaningful result 15:46:44 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8693: Feature: allow changing the game-speed other than 1x and warp-speed https://git.io/JtDPS 15:46:52 <Timberwolf> it does weird things. 15:47:26 <Timberwolf> My preservation railways use extreme values (74 to 5*74) and it's... non-linear. 15:47:43 <Timberwolf> You need something like a 192-tile route with 30mph trains for it to make a major difference. 15:48:06 <Samu> Error: /home/runner/work/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/src/industry_gui.cpp:1315:2: error: ‘const’ can only be specified for objects and functions 15:48:23 <andythenorth> I did a big test game and proved it has an effect in very artificial test situations 15:48:28 <Samu> const enum class SorterType : uint8 15:48:32 <Samu> it doesn't like const 15:49:07 <andythenorth> but with cdist, transfers, delays on real game routes, varying load factors.... 15:49:07 <andythenorth> there's no sense that adjusting cargo_age_period up or down has any effect the player can control 15:49:28 <Timberwolf> Indeed. 15:49:58 <TrueBrain> When we planned to go to Steam, I should have put some money how often people said: you are doing this because you go to Steam, right? 15:50:26 <TrueBrain> I would made at least 3 times what-ever I bet on it already 15:50:26 <Timberwolf> Late game with faster trains there aren't enough "age cargo" ticks between source and destination. 15:50:26 <andythenorth> my route is about 160 tiles, so I thought it would trigger 15:50:26 <Timberwolf> Heh. 15:50:47 <Timberwolf> I like the assumption the development channel is organised and planned to this degree. 15:51:00 <TrueBrain> like we are not just doing what-ever-the-fuck-we-want 15:51:35 <Timberwolf> You don't have some secret grand anti-player plan? 15:52:03 <andythenorth> even if we did, it wouldn't survive the first hour 15:52:18 <andythenorth> and we'd never agree on it in the first place 15:52:27 <Timberwolf> newgrf variables for defining and adding vehicles to loot crates, pls. 15:52:44 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #8468: Fix #8316: Make sort industries by production and transported with a cargo filter possible https://git.io/JLHah 15:52:44 <andythenorth> with GS support 15:52:55 <andythenorth> but seriously, vehicle customisation 15:53:15 <TrueBrain> Timberwolf: under it all, you often notice people expect we run OpenTTD like a company :) Like we can "force" people to do stuff or something :) 15:53:16 <andythenorth> I mean we _could_ allow paying to customise vehicles, or unlock liveries as rewards 15:53:16 <TrueBrain> it is cute :) 15:53:39 <andythenorth> along with the assumption that "it's the players that make OpenTTD" 15:53:51 <andythenorth> because without customers...what are we? 15:54:21 * andythenorth mumbles 15:54:21 <andythenorth> anyway, vehicle liveries when? 15:54:36 <andythenorth> also can we have negative running costs? Instead of overflow? 15:54:36 <TrueBrain> I just like the Steam comments most, as I am pretty sure nobody gives a shit about us going to Steam, or what the reviews will say :P 15:54:36 <andythenorth> I want trains that earn income en-route 15:54:46 <TrueBrain> (us = developers) 15:55:18 * andythenorth intends to have pax coaches selling Kit-kats 15:55:18 <andythenorth> and tea 15:55:18 <TrueBrain> really like 0 fucks are given; it is nice to have Steam as distribution platform, but .. +0 :D 15:55:53 <TrueBrain> guess I should not reply that on the forums :P 15:55:54 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #8468: Fix #8316: Make sort industries by production and transported with a cargo filter possible https://git.io/JtDMt 15:56:02 <andythenorth> I typed a reply yesterday that said "please send me some fucks to give, because I looked in my bag of fucks and it's empty" 15:56:23 <andythenorth> but can't say that on forums 15:56:23 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8693: Feature: allow changing the game-speed other than 1x and warp-speed https://git.io/JtDPS 15:56:23 <TrueBrain> you are senior management on the forums, I have been told 15:56:23 <TrueBrain> so yeah, you cannot :) 15:56:50 *** V453000 has quit IRC 15:56:50 <andythenorth> I have never ever been granted any kind of responsibility in forums at all 15:56:50 *** Hazzard has quit IRC 15:56:50 *** planetmaker has quit IRC 15:56:50 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #8468: Fix #8316: Make sort industries by production and transported with a cargo filter possible https://git.io/JtDMO 15:56:50 <Timberwolf> A senior member of the community who should know better, no less! 15:56:50 * andythenorth is just a user 15:57:06 <TrueBrain> owh, member, not management, so that is better 15:57:19 <andythenorth> I am down with that 15:57:19 <andythenorth> what is earnt can be lost again 15:57:19 <TrueBrain> and you get paid to be a senior member, so you should behave! 15:57:19 <TrueBrain> and be professional 15:57:19 <TrueBrain> and everything 15:57:23 <andythenorth> by Steam 15:57:28 <andythenorth> why are we being foolish? 15:57:38 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #8688: Feature: Hide block signal GUI by default https://git.io/JtDMs 15:57:38 <TrueBrain> well, honestly, your replies were on the edge of bannable offense, so there was somewhat of a point :) 15:57:50 <Timberwolf> You'll be in the news as a "community leader" the next time there's a study that shows OpenTTD players have poor vaccination takeup or something. 15:57:50 <andythenorth> we should be sensibly discussing extending the newgrf spec 15:58:00 *** avdg has quit IRC 15:58:08 <TrueBrain> oeh, yes, lets call andythenorth the community leader from now on :D 15:58:22 <TrueBrain> I like that! 15:58:22 <andythenorth> "community leader" in UK-news-speak just means "people without the dominant skin colour in this country" 15:58:24 <andythenorth> and I don't fit the criteria 15:58:24 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: I am trying to avoid us talking about NewGRF specs, can't you tell? :D 15:58:30 <andythenorth> my kids do but eh 15:58:30 <TrueBrain> I feel so excluded when you guys do :( 15:58:44 <andythenorth> no you don't 15:58:44 <TrueBrain> you can't tell me how I feel 15:58:50 <andythenorth> oh yeah sorry 15:59:22 <TrueBrain> you don't pay my subscription! 15:59:22 * andythenorth apologises 15:59:22 <andythenorth> how do you feel TrueBrain ? 15:59:22 <TrueBrain> happy 15:59:22 <TrueBrain> you? 15:59:22 <andythenorth> lolzy 15:59:31 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #8468: Fix #8316: Make sort industries by production and transported with a cargo filter possible https://git.io/JtDMB 15:59:31 <andythenorth> ready for my 55 hour work week next week, and the 5 weeks after that 15:59:52 <TrueBrain> pam pam pammmmmmmm 15:59:52 <andythenorth> but seriously, negative running costs 15:59:58 <andythenorth> so my trains can earn money in the restaurant car 16:00:08 <TrueBrain> funny idea :D 16:00:08 *** XeryusTC has quit IRC 16:00:25 <andythenorth> I did try just signing the attr 16:00:25 <andythenorth> but it wraps 16:00:45 * andythenorth wonders how wrong it could go if we just made it signed 16:01:53 <andythenorth> it amuses me that I could make a train go round a circle, just earning money 16:01:53 <andythenorth> by selling mars bars 16:01:53 <TrueBrain> well, it should be relative to the amount of pax on board 16:01:53 <TrueBrain> so you can load a train full 16:01:53 <andythenorth> yes 16:01:53 <TrueBrain> run around in circles 16:01:53 <TrueBrain> that is torture in another dimension 16:02:01 <andythenorth> that can be done, check load when leaving station 16:02:01 <Samu> yes! gcc, g++ stopped complaining! 16:02:01 *** Ammler has quit IRC 16:02:01 *** Hirundo has quit IRC 16:02:01 *** Yexo has quit IRC 16:02:01 <TrueBrain> new death-scenario: pax died because he was overweight 16:02:43 <andythenorth> I was thinking of Ice Cream Van RVs also 16:02:43 <andythenorth> drives around town, just making money 16:02:43 <TrueBrain> and taking kids 16:02:43 <Xaroth> This is getting real dark real fast. 16:02:43 <TrueBrain> so with 1% chance you get 10x the normal profit 16:02:43 <Xaroth> (Not saying that was a bad thing) 16:02:56 <andythenorth> I think you have different ice cream vans where you live 16:02:56 <andythenorth> ours seem less dangerous 16:03:11 <TrueBrain> only seems that way, no worries 16:03:11 <andythenorth> Mind That Child! 16:03:11 <Samu> theoretically, a division by 0 should not occur 16:03:33 <andythenorth> https://pics.me.me/mind-that-child-nv53-gfy-2484096.png 16:03:33 <Xaroth> Not unless you want to implode the universe, no. 16:03:33 <TrueBrain> @calc 1/0 16:03:33 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Error: float division by zero 16:03:33 <TrueBrain> OWH SNAP IT DID HAPPEN 16:03:50 <Xaroth> andythenorth: Sonic is missing an eye... 16:04:25 <Samu> i mean in here: https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/8468/files#diff-9d781b0b4c7d77b2ec398266564eacd6e9cdfa27ccfe90c5e04e0f6bd91d1fb0R1463 16:04:25 <andythenorth> so disturb 16:04:43 <Xaroth> and an earlobe 16:04:43 <Timberwolf> One of the ice cream vans round here has a really sinister chime. 16:04:43 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on pull request #8688: Feature: Hide block signal GUI by default https://git.io/JtDM6 16:05:05 <Samu> c starts with value 0 16:05:05 <Timberwolf> It's one of the normal ice cream van tunes, but every so often one of the notes is unexpectedly from the minor key. 16:05:08 <andythenorth> Timberwolf did you have these in the late 80s? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpoi2BqbxkY 16:05:22 <andythenorth> chimes are rad 16:05:30 <TrueBrain> Timberwolf: that always scares the shit out of me, when that happens :P 16:05:48 <Xaroth> Samu: if i->produced_cargo is an empty array, c would remain 0. 16:05:57 <TrueBrain> can I say Timberwolf , I am happy you are chatty on IRC :) 16:06:07 <Xaroth> or if none of those if blocks trigger. 16:06:32 <Timberwolf> The other one doesn't have a proper chime, it has something like a NES sound chip amplified. 16:07:35 <Samu> i->produced_cargo isn't supposed to be empty 16:07:52 *** Hazzard has joined #openttd 16:07:54 <Timberwolf> TrueBrain: this is mostly just complete inability to focus :) 16:08:10 <TrueBrain> well, I like it; at least it is not only me and andythenorth being all blablabla :D 16:08:26 <andythenorth> I mean this is basically how I socialise 16:08:38 <andythenorth> this way it's not rude to read the internet and watch YouTube whilst hanging out 16:08:47 <andythenorth> and we don't have to talk about shit that's dull 16:09:42 <andythenorth> well...Truebrain seems scared of newgrf, but I'm sure that's ok 16:09:44 <andythenorth> we don't mind 16:09:55 <Timberwolf> IRC means my OH can't steal all my friends into a different discussion :p 16:10:12 <TrueBrain> haha :D 16:11:49 *** V453000 has joined #openttd 16:12:06 <Samu> is there a chance where lengthof(i->produced_cargo) is 0? 16:12:20 <Samu> from what i've tested, it was never the case 16:12:29 <Samu> it was always 16 16:12:40 <andythenorth> so do we want (1) newgrf liveries (vehicle skins), which can support autoreplace etc or (2) vehicle customisation options (appearance and stats), which probably can't support autoreplace etc or (3) both 16:12:42 <andythenorth> ? 16:12:43 *** Yexo has joined #openttd 16:12:44 *** XeryusTC has joined #openttd 16:12:57 <andythenorth> (1) would be best as a simple spec, but will be instantly abused to do (2) anyway 16:14:28 <Timberwolf> andythenorth: Not in the late '80s, we had one local ice cream man who'd had the same van since about 1972. 16:14:43 <andythenorth> yeah that's the traditional model 16:14:52 <andythenorth> the hemglass vans were an interloper of sorts 16:15:06 <andythenorth> they sold boxes of ice creams, instead of individual 16:15:13 <andythenorth> it was like Iceland on wheels 16:15:30 <Timberwolf> We had the fish man. 16:15:56 <Timberwolf> My dad says he still gets one of those on his little old people estate! 16:16:39 *** jgx_ has joined #openttd 16:20:03 *** ^Spike^ has joined #openttd 16:22:48 *** jgx__ has quit IRC 16:24:25 <andythenorth> ours came from Grimsby 16:24:42 <andythenorth> in something like an Escort van 16:25:03 <andythenorth> or a Marina van 16:25:11 <andythenorth> yeah probably this https://i.pinimg.com/originals/79/28/bd/7928bdf7702892e4b52ffa165dc45e61.jpg 16:29:55 <glx> Samu: produced cargo is a fixed size array IIRC 16:30:23 <glx> but it can contain 16 invalid cargos is the industry doesn't porduce anything 16:30:54 <Timberwolf> Ours had a Nissan Urvan, I think. 16:30:54 <Timberwolf> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:1991_Nissan_Urvan_(E24)_Cargo_SWB_van_(2015-11-13)_02.jpg 16:33:37 <glx> anyway your code seems to always increase c at least one time 16:33:37 *** ^Spike^ has quit IRC 16:33:59 <glx> so minimum value at the end of the loop is 1, if my reading is correct 16:35:28 *** Hazzard has quit IRC 16:35:54 <andythenorth> Timberwolf yours came from Australia? :o 16:36:04 <andythenorth> long trip 16:36:04 *** Wuzzy has joined #openttd 16:37:13 *** XeryusTC has quit IRC 16:37:13 *** V453000 has quit IRC 16:37:52 <glx> with no produced cargo, c will be 1 and p will be -1 (mental run of the code, not verified in real) 16:38:31 <Timberwolf> Heh. There were a few of those vans around. 16:38:59 <Timberwolf> Friend's parents (with a large family) had a Toyota LiteAce. That was an amusing vehicle. 16:38:59 <glx> small minivan 16:39:05 <glx> IIRC 16:39:22 <Timberwolf> Tiny wheelbase and huge overhangs. 16:39:46 <Timberwolf> Pitched amusingly fore and aft whenever it was in motion. 16:42:23 <Timberwolf> We had a succession of Bluebirds, with one Volvo 240 in there. Until my parents divorced and my dad decided to go all low-budget extravagant and buy an old Granada. 16:42:48 <Timberwolf> That was excellent, like a '70s sitting room inside. Loads of brown velour and (presumably fake) teak. 16:43:56 * andythenorth remembers driving 16:43:56 <andythenorth> it was a thing that used to happen 16:44:47 <TrueBrain> remember the time people all went to a single building to work? LOLZ! That good old time ... 16:45:04 *** Progman has joined #openttd 16:50:59 <Timberwolf> I had one of those where the single building was just the place you all met up while deciding which pub you were going to disappear to that day... 16:50:59 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 16:51:35 *** jottyfan has quit IRC 17:03:30 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 17:04:01 <andythenorth> I don't mind the new game mode 17:04:02 <andythenorth> but I miss driving my van around 17:04:11 <andythenorth> there was a lot of tedious grinding though in the old mode 17:04:44 <andythenorth> like micro-management tasks that seem to have been removed 17:04:44 <andythenorth> 'shopping' etc 17:07:51 <Timberwolf> The "Tube" level in particular felt like it was padding out a lot of time reusing the same assets. 17:07:52 <Timberwolf> Impressive NPC instancing techniques, though. 17:08:27 <andythenorth> dunno, I have been counting, I think there are only about 70 NPC meshes 17:08:27 <andythenorth> and they only have 15 behaviours 17:08:27 <Timberwolf> Miss the larger map from the old version. 17:08:27 <andythenorth> more detail in the current one 17:09:37 * andythenorth considers getting Landlord's Super https://minskworks.net/landlordssuper/ 17:09:41 <andythenorth> to relive actual childhood 17:09:54 <andythenorth> being made somewhere near me, which is very not the 1980s North 17:10:33 <Timberwolf> You don't find the lack of enterable buildings in the current update frustrating? 17:10:38 *** Osai has joined #openttd 17:11:45 <andythenorth> I've found I can substitute using video games 17:14:33 *** Hazzard has joined #openttd 17:16:04 *** Hirundo has joined #openttd 17:16:44 *** XeryusTC has joined #openttd 17:17:52 *** Ammler has joined #openttd 17:17:52 *** planetmaker has joined #openttd 17:18:02 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o planetmaker 17:24:53 *** Hazzard has quit IRC 17:25:06 *** tneo has quit IRC 17:26:00 *** XeryusTC has quit IRC 17:29:50 *** Osai has quit IRC 17:29:52 *** Hirundo has quit IRC 17:29:52 *** Yexo has quit IRC 17:37:53 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler updated pull request #8688: Feature: Hide block signal GUI by default https://git.io/JtDJs 17:38:49 *** ^Spike^ has joined #openttd 17:39:18 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler commented on pull request #8688: Feature: Hide block signal GUI by default https://git.io/JtDQS 17:40:33 *** V453000 has joined #openttd 17:42:32 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8689: Fix cc39fa9: New orders are non-stop by default https://git.io/JtDJE 17:42:48 *** Hazzard has joined #openttd 17:43:15 *** tneo has joined #openttd 17:45:17 <TrueBrain> LordAro: if you flip a coin, how does it land for you when looking at https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/8329 ? :) 17:45:35 *** avdg has joined #openttd 17:45:36 *** Yexo has joined #openttd 17:48:15 <supermop_Home_> andy, love that that video shows you cutting in corners with a tiny brush in addition to using the roller 17:50:48 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 17:51:00 <TrueBrain> wauw, someone dug up a 8 year old thread on the forums .. that is impressive search skills right there 17:52:05 *** Hazzard has quit IRC 17:54:07 *** Hazzard has joined #openttd 17:54:59 *** Hirundo has joined #openttd 17:57:38 *** Osai has joined #openttd 17:59:15 *** XeryusTC has joined #openttd 18:01:10 *** Progman has quit IRC 18:06:23 *** planetmaker has quit IRC 18:06:36 *** ^Spike^ has quit IRC 18:06:36 *** V453000 has quit IRC 18:07:49 *** Hazzard has quit IRC 18:13:19 *** V453000 has joined #openttd 18:17:41 *** avdg has quit IRC 18:17:42 *** Osai has quit IRC 18:17:42 *** XeryusTC has quit IRC 18:19:44 *** Hirundo has quit IRC 18:19:44 *** Ammler has quit IRC 18:19:44 *** Yexo has quit IRC 18:19:44 *** tneo has quit IRC 18:25:50 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 18:26:02 <andythenorth> -ve running costs then... 18:28:10 <Timberwolf> You've just broken my train with £2,150,000,000 per year running costs, literally unplayable. 18:28:23 <Timberwolf> Actually it's running cost base isn't it, does anyone use the range 32768-65535? That's possibly more feasible if they're doing really granular running costs (whether deliberately or inadvertently) 18:28:23 <andythenorth> I had similar 18:29:22 <andythenorth> I left FFWD on with £2m running costs 18:29:22 <andythenorth> oops 18:30:02 <andythenorth> I didn't actually look which prop it was, but yes, plausibly it can't be made signed 18:30:13 <andythenorth> some other mechanic for "this vehicle gives a bonus" then? 18:30:39 <andythenorth> my favourite so far is allowing vehicles to influence station rating 18:31:07 <andythenorth> given that (1) money is no big deal (2) existing ratings mechanic isn't stupid, but has stupid elements 18:32:43 *** tneo has joined #openttd 18:32:56 *** Hazzard has joined #openttd 18:33:21 *** Hirundo has joined #openttd 18:33:47 <andythenorth> 'age of last vehicle' is particularly silly :) 18:34:39 * andythenorth not sure how it would work yet 18:35:00 <andythenorth> but restaurant coaches, sleeper coaches, brake vans, luxury ships... 18:35:23 <andythenorth> could have a positive effect on station rating 18:35:27 <Timberwolf> Cartics full of Austin 1100s, surely. 18:35:42 <andythenorth> motorail 18:36:21 *** XeryusTC has joined #openttd 18:36:21 *** Yexo has joined #openttd 18:36:21 *** avdg has joined #openttd 18:36:25 <andythenorth> the SNCF coach that had a children's playground in it 18:42:35 <TrueBrain> https://i.imgur.com/h8r2231.png <- can we please make this title game entry win this year? 18:42:41 <supermop_Home_> evangelion anniversary shinkansen 18:43:24 *** Hazzard has quit IRC 18:44:15 <andythenorth> if Toyland wins I have to switch to Simutrans 18:44:16 <andythenorth> I like the boats though 18:44:29 <TrueBrain> another incentive, nice :D 18:44:29 <TrueBrain> owh, euhhhhhhh 18:44:29 <TrueBrain> <3 :P 18:44:32 <andythenorth> Toyland, nearly the nicest climate 18:45:09 <andythenorth> only 3 others are nicer 18:45:09 *** tneo has quit IRC 18:45:18 <TrueBrain> it is in the top 4!! 18:45:49 <andythenorth> it is! 18:45:49 <andythenorth> station ratings eh? https://wiki.openttd.org/en/Manual/Game%20Mechanics/#station-rating 18:46:17 *** avdg has quit IRC 18:46:17 *** V453000 has quit IRC 18:46:17 *** Yexo has quit IRC 18:46:17 <LordAro> i love how little effort (presumably zeph) put into those "bush trees" 18:46:24 <LordAro> it's a very basic sphere shape 18:46:52 <TrueBrain> apple on a stick! 18:47:06 <andythenorth> it's probably beer time eh? 18:47:06 <Wuzzy> Can someone please review <https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenSFX/pull/14>? 18:47:23 <LordAro> but yes, the general look of the scene is very nice 18:47:23 <LordAro> just convert it to one of the other climates :p 18:47:23 <TrueBrain> one of the other in the top 4! 18:47:32 <LordAro> s/look/layout 18:47:32 <andythenorth> Timberwolf so Euro trains next? 18:47:43 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: i think we had a toyland entry every year, and everyone said "wait, that looks nice", until they saw the title screen with original graphics 18:47:43 <LordAro> TrueBrain: there are 4 entries so far, aren't there? :p 18:47:43 * andythenorth enjoys having another big set developing in parallel 18:47:54 <TrueBrain> its too bad title screen extend from the topleft, instead of center .. that sould be better, but okay .. 18:48:00 <TrueBrain> LordAro: no, we meant top 4 from the climates 18:48:20 <LordAro> oh, lol 18:48:28 <TrueBrain> I mean, toyland is in the top 4, so that is something 18:48:48 <TrueBrain> just imagine, this launching on steam 18:48:49 <TrueBrain> someone installs the game 18:48:49 <TrueBrain> opens it 18:48:49 <TrueBrain> gets this 18:48:49 <TrueBrain> :D 18:49:11 *** fonsinchen has quit IRC 18:49:50 <LordAro> hmm, only 1 entry so far 18:49:50 <LordAro> mildly disappointing 18:49:50 <TrueBrain> one public one, they could also pm him, not? :D 18:49:50 <TrueBrain> but can't we make the game put the saved position in the center of the map? 18:50:21 <Wuzzy> don't laugh, I once played the full 100 years in Toyland. it's … okayish. 18:50:21 <TrueBrain> makes for easier title games, I would guess 18:50:21 <Wuzzy> the "real" climates are better 😛 18:50:30 <TrueBrain> there is nothing wrong with Toyland; there is something completely wrong with using it as title game 18:51:15 <LordAro> TrueBrain: maybe if i ever finish my "signs to move viewport" titlegame patch, i'll do that at the same time 18:51:15 <TrueBrain> ugh, I am dreading making this custom GUI widget .. it most likely will be fine, but .. ugh ... :P 18:51:30 <LordAro> define expansion direction with a sign in the top corner or something 18:52:00 <TrueBrain> I think if the center is always the center, many people can make awesome things 18:52:00 <LordAro> s/viewport "titlegame/titlegame viewport"/ 18:52:00 <TrueBrain> that alone might just be sufficient 18:52:17 <LordAro> hmm, moving viewports makes titlegame competitions more difficult to judge :p 18:52:26 <TrueBrain> then again, most title games I really like 18:52:26 <TrueBrain> people are awesome in able to make those 18:52:43 <TrueBrain> in able? in their ability 18:52:43 <TrueBrain> what-ever 18:53:07 <TrueBrain> either way, LordAro , https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/8329, with linux-generic, something that we want? Something that we want to maintain? 18:53:59 <LordAro> it seems unnecessary for *us* to maintain something like that as well as linux-generic 18:54:36 <TrueBrain> yeah .. I don't mind if someone else does it 18:54:37 <TrueBrain> but the author doesn't want that 18:54:37 <TrueBrain> so I guess that settles it 18:55:11 <LordAro> it's no different from maintaining our own debian/rpm/whatever files 18:55:27 <LordAro> (which we did, but no longer) 18:55:38 <TrueBrain> yeah, exactly 18:55:44 <TrueBrain> if CPack can do it, I am fine with it 18:56:34 *** Hirundo has quit IRC 18:57:18 *** SmatZ has quit IRC 18:57:30 *** Terkhen has quit IRC 19:00:32 *** tneo has joined #openttd 19:02:01 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master https://git.io/JtDNy 19:02:02 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators) 19:02:16 *** Ammler has joined #openttd 19:02:16 *** Hirundo has joined #openttd 19:02:52 <TrueBrain> mostly what annoys me, that this targets something that we already target in all kind of different ways, amd64 19:03:03 <TrueBrain> having arm builds etc, now that would be worth considering to me 19:03:22 *** SmatZ has joined #openttd 19:03:30 <TrueBrain> meh, I should stop trying to deny what I already know .. we shouldn't do this, not now :D 19:03:37 *** ^Spike^ has joined #openttd 19:04:05 *** Terkhen has joined #openttd 19:04:05 *** V453000 has joined #openttd 19:04:06 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Terkhen 19:05:33 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8329: Build AppImage https://git.io/JtDNh 19:05:36 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed pull request #8329: Build AppImage https://git.io/JTZha 19:05:44 <TrueBrain> sometimes it is hard to say goodbye :P 19:05:49 <TrueBrain> tnx LordAro 19:09:30 <TrueBrain> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/8616 <- is this an issue, adding currency? Do we have a policy on that? Or is it just: sure, what-ever? 19:09:50 *** Yexo has joined #openttd 19:09:50 *** fonsinchen has joined #openttd 19:10:42 <LordAro> go for it 19:10:51 <TrueBrain> it is off by 3 magnitudes 19:10:53 <TrueBrain> does it matter? 19:10:56 <TrueBrain> guess it will feel cheap 19:11:45 <LordAro> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 19:11:59 <LordAro> could put 'k Rp' ? :p 19:12:15 <TrueBrain> would anyone understand that, I wonder 19:12:20 <LordAro> also the various issues with that pr - removing the comment, editing indonesian 19:12:21 <LordAro> etc 19:12:24 <LordAro> TrueBrain: no idea 19:12:43 <TrueBrain> yeah, I was about to fix those 19:13:55 * andythenorth amused by how many adblocker ads I'm seeing 19:14:01 *** avdg has joined #openttd 19:14:02 <andythenorth> surprised Google AdSense doesn't ban them :P 19:16:04 *** Osai has joined #openttd 19:16:08 *** gregdek has quit IRC 19:16:08 *** reldred has quit IRC 19:17:05 *** Hazzard has joined #openttd 19:17:13 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8616: Add: Currency: Indonesian Rupiah (IDR) https://git.io/Jt4LH 19:17:53 *** planetmaker has joined #openttd 19:17:54 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o planetmaker 19:18:23 <nielsm> is there any reason currencies couldn't be a config file? 19:18:48 <TrueBrain> pretty sure the answer is: because nobody wrote that :) 19:19:19 <Eddi|zuHause> @nielsm well, there's the custom currency setting 19:19:49 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain approved pull request #8616: Add: Currency: Indonesian Rupiah (IDR) https://git.io/JtDAw 19:19:56 <frosch123> the idea to remove all built-in currencies is as old as removing all built-in townnames :) 19:20:58 <TrueBrain> ideas we have plenty :) 19:20:58 <frosch123> TrueBrain: does your mapgen gui rewrite include a preview? 19:21:27 <TrueBrain> frosch123: hmm ... not sure that would technically be possible 19:21:27 <TrueBrain> but otherwise: fuck yes 19:21:29 <TrueBrain> preview for scenarios and heightmaps too, tbfh 19:21:33 <frosch123> it's possible for height + water + snow 19:21:59 <frosch123> the rest takes too long, and uses too much global state 19:21:59 <TrueBrain> well, generating the landscape alone on a 4kx4k is taking a few seconds 19:22:06 <frosch123> it's already in a thread 19:22:13 <TrueBrain> fair 19:22:16 <TrueBrain> "Loading preview ..." 19:22:29 <TrueBrain> and it doesn't have to block the UI, as it isn't showing the landscape 19:22:41 <TrueBrain> which is an issue the normal generation has, and why especially the beginning is laggy as fuck 19:23:03 <frosch123> i also dremed of highlighting areas with > 5 consecutive slopetiles 19:23:04 <TrueBrain> many ideas to improve that, but .. time is a resource that is in demand :P 19:23:19 *** qwebirc11869 has joined #openttd 19:23:23 <frosch123> so you can see when the roughness / heighmap contrast exceeds the ottd limit of 1 height difference between tiles 19:24:06 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd 19:24:41 <TrueBrain> but v1 for me would be to just simplify that GUI, and extend from there 19:24:47 <TrueBrain> as there are so many things to try and toy with :D 19:24:56 <frosch123> v1 for me was to merge the three mapgen guis we have :p 19:25:17 <TrueBrain> well, I would just make a 4th and replace the others with it :P 19:26:34 <frosch123> oh, my other motivation was to remove half of the button in the intro gui 19:26:44 <TrueBrain> yes 19:26:53 <TrueBrain> although it would lose its iconic look&feel, I am afraid 19:27:30 <frosch123> yeah, it would look like factorio 19:27:30 <TrueBrain> I mean, no clue why you can pick climate on the intro screen 19:27:30 <TrueBrain> but it looks nice 19:27:50 <frosch123> well, i mostly meant moving ai/gs/newgrf settings as buttons into the mapgen gui 19:27:53 <TrueBrain> might just keep it without having them clickable :P 19:28:14 <TrueBrain> yeah, and remove play scenario/heightmap 19:28:14 <TrueBrain> as that UX is just terrible 19:28:18 <TrueBrain> how often I clicked New Game, to find out I cannot start a scenario from there 19:28:18 <TrueBrain> ugh 19:28:20 <frosch123> and to move the start server into the main gui, to rename the multiplayer gui to "join multiplayer" or something 19:28:32 <TrueBrain> I think we are aligned on this :D 19:29:02 <TrueBrain> and rename "Check Online Content" to anything not having the word "Check" in it 19:29:06 <frosch123> oh, i even made a mock-up last year 19:29:21 <TrueBrain> as I cannot understand it still reads "Check" 19:29:21 <TrueBrain> link? :D 19:30:21 <Eddi|zuHause> what about a "quick start" button prominently placed near the main menu climate selectors? (that's currently hidden as ctrl+click on newgame) 19:30:51 <TrueBrain> I do not see a need for a "quick" start 19:30:59 <TrueBrain> it is not like you are QUICK QUICK I NEED AN OPENTTD GAME NOWWW 19:31:07 <TrueBrain> what would be the usecase for you? 19:32:12 <_dp_> while on ui topic, can someone please move newgrf download to a server join button? ;) 19:32:12 <_dp_> and not some weird place that half of players don't even understand :p 19:32:12 <Eddi|zuHause> for me personally? testing something. but that shouldn't be the basis of any decision 19:32:21 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: yeah .. I think we should make the intro screen simpler 19:32:33 <TrueBrain> personally, I start openttd with -g -G0 19:32:37 <TrueBrain> to get the exact same map every time 19:32:44 <TrueBrain> but I think we shouldn't make that into a button :D 19:33:06 <TrueBrain> and I am perfectly fine with having people click 2 or 3 times to start a new game, honestly 19:33:51 <frosch123> TrueBrain: https://gist.githubusercontent.com/frosch123/889b6478a6d5d7b10f89d9b014845331/raw/60c6a4c7017e433b57b6da37a14c13dfc3c64d1a/guiplan202012.png 19:34:03 <frosch123> at the top the current windows 19:34:13 <frosch123> the left 3 are intended to be merged into one 19:34:20 <Eddi|zuHause> i was just asking, because a) the climate selectors on the main menu are mostly decorative, and remnants from the previous main menu layout. and b) because, like i said, it's not a new feature, just a hidden feature 19:34:31 <frosch123> the black horizontal lines represent some kind of tabbox or similar 19:34:33 <TrueBrain> well, I want to be a bit more drastic than that frosch123 :D 19:34:54 <TrueBrain> I think we should remove "max height" from that menu completely, for example 19:34:56 <TrueBrain> just move it to a setting 19:34:58 <frosch123> at the bottom you have buttons to open the settings tree in different filter variations 19:35:29 <frosch123> TrueBrain: that would be "more map settings" in that mock-up 19:35:46 <frosch123> it also included the other settings, which cannot be changed during a game 19:35:46 <frosch123> like driving-side, or tree-generator, ... 19:36:24 <andythenorth> _dp_ and call them mods or DLC while we're here? 19:36:24 <TrueBrain> and as I wrote in the thread, I think we need a preset system, to guide players more 19:36:24 <frosch123> as usual, i dropped the scenario editor under the carpet 19:36:24 <TrueBrain> but yeah, on one thing we fully agree: less things in that window :D 19:36:24 <frosch123> starting the SE is super weird 19:36:50 <frosch123> TrueBrain: oh yes, another old idea: replace the climate buttons with a preset selection 19:37:17 <TrueBrain> I am going to miss those climate buttons in the intro 19:37:17 <_dp_> andythenorth, I'm on 19:37:17 <frosch123> preset would include climate + newgrf + some settings 19:37:17 <TrueBrain> presets including newgrfs 19:37:17 <TrueBrain> hmm 19:37:24 <TrueBrain> that is not a bad idea 19:37:24 <TrueBrain> just a tricky one 19:37:44 <TrueBrain> who would maintain the presets? 19:37:58 <frosch123> preset would be a shareable ini file, which sets the settings it wants to set (and leaves the rest unchanged) and also contains newgrf and gs 19:38:22 <frosch123> basically a "import + merge another openttd.cfg" 19:38:22 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: honestly, if it was up to me, I would even remove that hidden functionality :D Not a big fan of all this CTRL-does-something-else, without it really telling you :) 19:38:33 <TrueBrain> add presets to BaNaNaS you say :D 19:38:43 <frosch123> yes, but that is v2 :p 19:38:52 <TrueBrain> v1.6 :D 19:38:59 <TrueBrain> I like that idea really 19:39:08 <frosch123> :p 19:39:10 <TrueBrain> it is simple, elegant, and allows many more players to a whole new world of gameplay 19:39:14 <TrueBrain> and we can monitor what is popular 19:39:34 <frosch123> anyway, we cannot even display a random png in the gui :p 19:39:41 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: we should have loading screen hints like "Ctrl+Click on button <x> does <y>" :p 19:39:51 <TrueBrain> or just when you press CTRL things change 19:39:56 <TrueBrain> so you know it has an interaction 19:39:59 <supermop_Home_> i think we can lose the climate thumbnail buttons 19:40:01 <TrueBrain> but one problem at the time, honestly 19:40:13 <TrueBrain> supermop_Home_: but they are so iconic! 19:40:19 <supermop_Home_> unless they are used for a 'preset' for each climate 19:40:29 <supermop_Home_> TrueBrain yes, but 19:40:34 <TrueBrain> no buts 19:40:35 <TrueBrain> :P 19:40:35 <frosch123> the 4 climates would be the default presets 19:40:47 <TrueBrain> and clicking them starts a game? 19:41:07 <TrueBrain> (we talk about the intro screen, right?) 19:41:07 <supermop_Home_> i feel like if i click the temperate button it should just drop me into a 256x256 temperate game 19:41:10 <_dp_> btw, I like the intent to guide players more but mb you should start with a freaking tutorial! :p 19:41:13 <supermop_Home_> no other settings 19:41:14 <frosch123> TrueBrain: yes, intro screen 19:41:28 <TrueBrain> _dp_: feel free! >:D 19:41:35 <frosch123> _dp_: the android port links youtube videos as tutorial 19:41:45 <frosch123> _dp_: if you make good ones, i am +1 to adding links 19:41:52 <frosch123> but i do not know any good tutorial videos 19:42:15 <TrueBrain> it requires a lot of things .. someone with a good voice, someone who is good in recording, someone who is good in editing :) 19:42:17 <supermop_Home_> the arctic picture has a picture of snowy mountains. i click that, i want snowy mountains, no other fucking around 19:42:21 <TrueBrain> not undoable, plenty of people do it 19:42:28 <TrueBrain> but yeah, tutorial videos will be nice :) 19:42:32 <frosch123> TrueBrain: and someone who knows the game :p 19:42:34 <TrueBrain> hosting on YouTube, a bit less, but meh :) 19:42:57 <supermop_Home_> i don't mind voice stuff, but i don't like my own voice 19:43:03 <_dp_> if I even make one it will be for cmclient :p 19:43:15 <supermop_Home_> send me a professional mic set up and i'll do it tho 19:43:27 <supermop_Home_> start a OpenTTD podcast 19:43:33 <supermop_Home_> sell ads for mattresses 19:43:35 <TrueBrain> frosch123: btw, just to check, where did your Heightmap button go in the mockup? 19:44:03 <frosch123> TrueBrain: the black bars represent some kind of tabbox, i have not decided how to visually represent it 19:44:09 <supermop_Home_> height maps should be easier to play 19:44:12 <TrueBrain> owh, like that, I see 19:44:25 <TrueBrain> okay ... now I have to make a mockup to show what I have in mind I guess ... :P 19:44:34 <supermop_Home_> also, in SE, a button to just start playing the map 19:44:42 <frosch123> idea is: there is only one new-game gui. you have some basic settings at the top, then select random map/heightmap/flat (in se), and then the additional settings 19:45:16 <TrueBrain> the more I look at this, the more I am tempted to integrate BaNaNaS in those windows too 19:45:23 <TrueBrain> as in, heightmaps show what you have locally, but also show what is available globally 19:45:31 <TrueBrain> but it needs a rating system of some kind to be useful 19:45:45 <frosch123> TrueBrain: there is also no filebrowser in that gui 19:45:53 <frosch123> but integrating filebrowser + bananas would make sense 19:46:05 <frosch123> load from local disk, load from personal cloud storage, load from bananas, ... 19:46:11 <TrueBrain> basically, my goal would be to make the experience a bit more smooth 19:46:24 <TrueBrain> not as many buttons, options, secrets, ... 19:46:28 <TrueBrain> just clear and simple 19:47:01 <TrueBrain> and yes, this will result in some functionalities no longer being there 19:47:05 <supermop_Home_> i wonder what type of market a podcast would have 19:47:22 <frosch123> TrueBrain: all the arcane stuff can move into the tree 19:47:44 <frosch123> it's a gui task, not a "rewrite the mapgen" task 19:47:48 *** qwebirc11869 has quit IRC 19:48:13 <supermop_Home_> "Every week, supermop does his best to summarize what was discussed on IRC, as far as he understands it..." 19:48:13 <frosch123> so, by definition it does not remove/change the behavior, it just hides things and shows others :p 19:48:41 <supermop_Home_> podcast content actually related to playing the game is bonus for paid subscribers only 19:49:31 <TrueBrain> frosch123: I meant things like: ctrl+click this will do that, and all those things :) 19:50:32 *** qwebirc51889 has joined #openttd 19:50:32 <_dp_> :p https://i.imgur.com/htlQFQe.png 19:50:32 <TrueBrain> okay ... gimp .. lets see if I can do this .. 19:50:32 <frosch123> off, you may burn out if you touch that 19:50:39 <frosch123> try smaller steps :) 19:50:39 *** gregdek has joined #openttd 19:51:38 <TrueBrain> that would make the job easier ;) 19:51:42 <TrueBrain> but not sure we talk about the same thing now :D 19:52:20 <frosch123> me neither. i did not follow the jump from mapgen gui to ctrl click 19:52:45 <TrueBrain> currently, the GUI is full of hidden features 19:52:46 <TrueBrain> like already mentioned, ctrl+click on newgame starts a map 19:52:46 <TrueBrain> without giving you the window 19:52:51 <TrueBrain> there are more of those .. lovely things 19:53:23 <frosch123> yes, the ctrl+click to start a game is something i would have silently dropped along the way 19:53:26 <andythenorth> the what now? 19:53:37 <andythenorth> every day is a school day 19:53:40 <frosch123> i don't know why anyone would start a game with the same settings so often they need a shortcut 19:53:40 <andythenorth> I'm still recovering from learning about signal dragging 19:53:51 <andythenorth> and statues 19:53:51 <frosch123> they better use the console commands for that 19:53:51 <_dp_> ctrl+click that just skips a dialog is not that bad 19:53:55 <andythenorth> now you've blown my mind again 19:54:17 <_dp_> it's much worse that half of the game is hidden behind some other ctrl-clicks 19:54:38 <andythenorth> software's gonna software :) 19:54:39 *** reldred has joined #openttd 19:54:39 <frosch123> anyway, all of you are blocking me from eating dinner for almost an hour now :/ 19:54:57 <TrueBrain> enjoy frosch123 19:55:44 <andythenorth> I blame supermop_Home_ 19:57:03 <supermop_Home_> i did say yesterday you can blame me 19:58:13 <andythenorth> supermop_Home_ can you send me the PSD? Unless you converted the palette to TTD Windows already? 19:58:27 <andythenorth> oh you did :) 19:59:39 *** jottyfan has quit IRC 20:00:52 <andythenorth> supermop_Home_ looks good to me, no extraneous pixels :) 20:01:23 <andythenorth> is hotel used in any other climates, or just arctic? 20:01:23 <andythenorth> newgrf wiki says not 20:02:44 <andythenorth> meh testing construction sprites for houses :( 20:02:44 <andythenorth> 'no' 20:04:08 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenGFX] andythenorth opened pull request #54: Change: replace Arctic Hotel sprites with improved version (Supermop) https://git.io/JtDhJ 20:04:08 <andythenorth> Yolo ^ ? 20:06:43 *** ^Spike^ has quit IRC 20:07:42 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] azubieta commented on pull request #8329: Build AppImage https://git.io/JtDhC 20:07:43 <LordAro> andythenorth: ingame comparison shots? 20:07:43 <LordAro> #lazy 20:08:11 <andythenorth> LordAro new one looks like https://gist.github.com/andythenorth/311126e1d2cb2ad3c31bc86bc02a26d4#gistcomment-3635036 20:08:11 <andythenorth> old one looks like....ass 20:09:02 <TrueBrain> holy crap, GIMP and fonts are ugly as fuck 20:12:48 <supermop_Home_> andy i sent you updated png but not the new psd 20:12:48 <supermop_Home_> i can sent the fixed psd too 20:12:48 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenGFX] LordAro approved pull request #54: Change: replace Arctic Hotel sprites with improved version (Supermop) https://git.io/JtDha 20:13:12 <supermop_Home_> temperate hotel is the mid-rise with pool on the roof 20:13:26 <supermop_Home_> but i would like to replace that sprite too 20:13:39 <supermop_Home_> idk if there is a tropic hotel but i'd love to draw a Miami or Waikiki one 20:14:09 <andythenorth> supermop_Home_ please send :) 20:14:17 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenGFX] Eddi-z commented on pull request #54: Change: replace Arctic Hotel sprites with improved version (Supermop) https://git.io/JtDhX 20:14:26 <andythenorth> rebase and merge or squash and merge? 20:15:40 <andythenorth> @LordAro there's a large docs/authoroverview.csv 20:15:42 <supermop_Home_> sent 20:15:59 <andythenorth> I don't know any more than that 20:16:54 *** Yexo has quit IRC 20:17:18 <TrueBrain> frosch123: https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/1663690/108416179-a3606e00-722e-11eb-9030-f4d62d9f8476.png 20:17:54 <TrueBrain> not sure I like this narrow form, but I had to try :) 20:18:02 <supermop_Home_> does it have to say mods? 20:18:15 <TrueBrain> it is way more understood than "online content" 20:18:36 <TrueBrain> Add-ons 20:18:36 <supermop_Home_> i know it's colloquial idiom, but seems a little dumbed down? 20:18:36 <TrueBrain> I am fine with what-ever, but currently it is just unclear 20:19:03 <TrueBrain> dumbed down is not bad 20:19:04 <TrueBrain> especially not for an intro menu 20:19:04 <supermop_Home_> i guess i don't have a better suggestion 20:19:39 <supermop_Home_> just reminds me of people who don't know about cars talking about cars 20:19:40 <TrueBrain> the window has a complete lack of good spacing btw, but that was not the point :D 20:19:40 <supermop_Home_> but i'm being elitist i guess 20:20:03 <TrueBrain> the biggest pitfall we face, is assuming we understand our user :D 20:20:18 <andythenorth> we don't understand our user 20:20:26 <andythenorth> nobody understands the user 20:21:02 <TrueBrain> so I tend to look at other games, and use that :) 20:21:02 <andythenorth> it's why user-centered design is a false idiom 20:21:02 <TrueBrain> in the assumption they had budget to figure out what users understand :P 20:21:11 <andythenorth> I just make what I want, and I am fairly stupid, so I generally have to make it simple 20:21:11 <andythenorth> seems to work 20:21:29 <andythenorth> oh...I test UI stuff on...like... people as well :P 20:21:49 <TrueBrain> with a menu this small, I would suggest to put it off center 20:21:50 <TrueBrain> so the title game can be more visible 20:21:50 <andythenorth> TrueBrain I like the minimalist view, and it would fit on my tiny iPhone when we do iOS 20:22:21 <TrueBrain> I just wish I had a bit of room to add which game you are continueing 20:22:21 <andythenorth> it violates every rule of touch UI otherwise, but at least it's narrow :) 20:22:37 <andythenorth> 'last played' 20:22:37 <frosch123> andythenorth: play in landscape 20:22:37 <andythenorth> 'continue' 20:22:55 <TrueBrain> I like those games that put below it what that game was 20:22:55 <TrueBrain> like "My-test-game.sav" 20:22:55 <frosch123> TrueBrain: continue is weird because of singleplayer/multiplayer 20:22:55 <andythenorth> yes 20:22:55 <supermop_Home_> andythenorth how would you describe BR design philosophy 20:23:07 <andythenorth> supermop_Home_ extremely detailed, and highly tested 20:23:07 <frosch123> i think i tried to group stuff into singleplayer and multiplayer 20:23:07 <andythenorth> except when it wasn't 20:23:42 <TrueBrain> I would put a spacer between Load game and Host game 20:23:43 <supermop_Home_> like clearly there was a cohesive theory of design there 20:23:43 <TrueBrain> and between Online content and Exit 20:23:43 <andythenorth> Host game is less important than Join game 20:23:43 <supermop_Home_> but seems it was more 'for the love of the game' rather than for the users 20:23:57 <frosch123> anyway, you change so much, that i have no idea how the stuff behind the buttons would look like :p 20:23:57 <andythenorth> stats may show I'm wrong :P 20:23:57 <TrueBrain> frosch123: well, I wouldn't mind if Continue game rejoins the last server 20:23:57 <TrueBrain> it just as to say so 20:24:40 <andythenorth> supermop_Home_ hate the game, don't hate the players :) 20:24:40 <andythenorth> etc 20:24:40 <TrueBrain> frosch123: I understand :D I will fiddle with the other windows too 20:24:40 <TrueBrain> just GIMP is awful for this 20:24:40 *** avdg has quit IRC 20:24:40 *** planetmaker has quit IRC 20:24:40 *** Osai has quit IRC 20:24:40 <TrueBrain> I guess I just switch to wireframes instead :) 20:24:55 <TrueBrain> ottdc bouncer is bouncing lovely today :) 20:24:55 *** qwebirc51889 has quit IRC 20:24:55 <TrueBrain> something is cycling 20:24:55 <andythenorth> TrueBrain one advantage of this linear layout it doesn't require any real design :) 20:25:18 <andythenorth> and it will do ok with scaling font, etc 20:25:18 <LordAro> 30 mins to go 20:25:18 <supermop_Home_> pretty sure a roll of steel doesn't care if the state owned monopoly locomotive pulling it has a livery that would totally kill it in design school 20:25:18 <TrueBrain> LordAro: 25, not? 20:25:18 <supermop_Home_> but god it was beautiful 20:25:53 <LordAro> TrueBrain: nah, nasa tend to be pretty accurate about these things 20:25:53 *** Hazzard has quit IRC 20:25:53 *** Ammler has quit IRC 20:25:53 *** Hirundo has quit IRC 20:25:53 *** V453000 has quit IRC 20:25:53 *** XeryusTC has quit IRC 20:25:53 <andythenorth> do we squash and merge or rebase and merge? 20:25:57 <TrueBrain> hmm, 20:50 they told me ... :P 20:26:23 <TrueBrain> well, 5 minutes later is fine :D 20:26:39 <LordAro> i'm just going off https://mars.nasa.gov/mars2020/ :p 20:26:57 *** qwebirc4891 has joined #openttd 20:26:57 <LordAro> andythenorth: "depends" 20:28:45 <andythenorth> day of week? star sign? project? nature of commits? 20:28:45 <LordAro> nature of commits :p 20:28:45 <LordAro> if you want to keep all the commits, rebase 20:28:45 <LordAro> if you want only one, squash 20:28:45 <andythenorth> 1 only anyway 20:29:09 <LordAro> then it doesn't matter 20:29:09 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenGFX] andythenorth merged pull request #54: Change: replace Arctic Hotel sprites with improved version (Supermop) https://git.io/JtDhJ 20:29:34 <LordAro> though squash (on GH) gives you opportunity to reword the commit 20:29:48 <supermop_Home_> andythenorth https://britishrailmanual.com/ 20:30:22 <supermop_Home_> idk if that was user centric, and it probably was at least a little elitist 20:30:23 <supermop_Home_> but it was good 20:32:08 <andythenorth> £75 eh 20:32:24 <andythenorth> indulgent? 20:32:32 <supermop_Home_> i'm sure the real ones in binders are more 20:32:32 <supermop_Home_> i indulged 20:32:33 * andythenorth tempted 20:32:56 <supermop_Home_> worth it just for the plate of the HST 20:33:12 <andythenorth> there's nothing wrong with UCD, it just got turned into a bit of a fetish, when to me it's just how you make a decent product 20:33:44 <andythenorth> but it leads to conversations like 'but how do you know, you are just the designer, surely in UCD the user is king?' 20:33:45 <supermop_Home_> andythenorth i was most teasing 20:34:01 <andythenorth> :) 20:34:14 <supermop_Home_> but yeah, some times 'customer is always right' is wrong 20:34:33 <andythenorth> I suspect UCD is a bit of a campaigning thing, against a world of 'buyer centered design' or 'manager centered design' 20:34:38 <andythenorth> or 'grant donor centered design' 20:34:43 <supermop_Home_> haha 20:34:43 <TrueBrain> Factorio puts your last joined server on top of the menu, which is also funny 20:34:46 <TrueBrain> and makes it green 20:34:49 <TrueBrain> really clear from an UX perspective 20:35:10 <andythenorth> TrueBrain all buttons must be yellow, and same size 20:35:28 <supermop_Home_> in the past i have been tempted to buy a Rail Alphabet license as an indulgent 20:35:29 <andythenorth> to give no gestalt weighting and no visual clues to importance 20:35:32 *** Yexo has joined #openttd 20:35:32 *** planetmaker has joined #openttd 20:35:32 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o planetmaker 20:36:24 <supermop_Home_> hi planetmaker 20:39:09 *** ^Spike^ has joined #openttd 20:39:15 *** V453000 has joined #openttd 20:39:48 *** Compu has joined #openttd 20:39:50 <supermop_Home_> andythenorth i'd pay dearly for a Rail Express Systems brand standards binder 20:39:52 *** Compu has quit IRC 20:41:34 *** Hazzard has joined #openttd 20:41:47 <TrueBrain> https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/1663690/108418844-0d2e4700-7232-11eb-9bbf-f61f5c54ed19.png <- wireframe can be a bit tricky to translate to how it would look&feel in OpenTTD 20:42:04 *** avdg has joined #openttd 20:42:04 *** XeryusTC has joined #openttd 20:42:53 <supermop_Home_> or a 43 in RES livery 20:42:54 *** qwebirc4891 has quit IRC 20:44:24 <supermop_Home_> TrueBrain i love it 20:44:31 <supermop_Home_> love merging the settings 20:45:27 <supermop_Home_> maybe a border around new game and the 4 buttons, to make it clear that those are associated 20:45:27 <supermop_Home_> ? 20:45:34 <supermop_Home_> like little 1-2 px line 20:46:37 <supermop_Home_> i like where you put the whitespaces to group 20:46:52 <supermop_Home_> maybe thin separator lines could go in there too 20:46:58 <supermop_Home_> probably not needed 20:47:16 <LordAro> TrueBrain: what is this supposed to be for? 20:47:17 <TrueBrain> these details we have to work out if we make it into the game 20:47:18 <TrueBrain> LordAro: an alternative intro GUI for OpenTTD 20:47:37 <LordAro> seems very tall and thinm 20:47:40 <LordAro> ? 20:47:43 <supermop_Home_> the aspect ratio is a bit odd 20:47:58 <supermop_Home_> will make title games look weird 20:48:44 <supermop_Home_> unless it defaults to being off-center? 20:48:44 <TrueBrain> LordAro: earlier picture to get an idea of how that looks ingame, but yes, it is a different approach from the fat solution we have now :) 20:48:44 <TrueBrain> supermop_Home_: not sure what you mean 20:49:07 <TrueBrain> but this is not meant to show pixels; just to give an idea of workflow, where buttons go and information is 20:49:07 <supermop_Home_> i think it works well functionally though, as in clear to understand what each area does 20:49:38 <supermop_Home_> TrueBrain unsure what i mean about the shape, or about lines? 20:50:08 <TrueBrain> about aspect ratio 20:50:08 <supermop_Home_> oh just that it is un familiar 20:50:08 <supermop_Home_> being tall and thin 20:50:18 <TrueBrain> owh, like that 20:50:33 <TrueBrain> and yes, I would suggest we put it off-center 20:50:33 <TrueBrain> to the left 20:50:33 <TrueBrain> like 30% or something 20:50:35 <TrueBrain> so the title screen has more room to shine 20:50:58 <TrueBrain> or to the right .. I don't really care honestly :D 20:50:59 <supermop_Home_> and title screen games at least subconsciously are built around a squarish void in the center of more boring stuff where the menu goes 20:51:21 <supermop_Home_> off-center to the side might encourage different approaches to framing a title game 20:51:35 <FLHerne> supermop_Home_: Is that true? "the centre" already depends on window size 20:51:45 *** Osai has joined #openttd 20:51:45 *** Ammler has joined #openttd 20:51:55 <supermop_Home_> FLHerne i think it is subconscious 20:51:59 <FLHerne> (there were already problems with titlegames that looked stupid on a 4k display because everything was in the corner) 20:52:25 <supermop_Home_> the standard one, and the tto one both have a body of water in the middle 20:52:51 <supermop_Home_> and about half the contest submissions seem to trend toward this 20:53:35 *** Progman has joined #openttd 20:54:29 <supermop_Home_> in the contest voting at least, the menu is usually shown i think? so the submission that gets the most votes might be influenced by how well it fits around the menu 20:55:25 *** Hirundo has joined #openttd 20:57:06 <TrueBrain> LordAro: without video feed from what is going on on Mars, this is rather boring :P 20:57:21 <TrueBrain> "the numbers say ..." :P 20:57:32 <TrueBrain> feels like a spreadsheet game :D 20:58:05 <LordAro> well at least it's actual data, rather than a simulation 20:59:52 <TrueBrain> :D 21:00:07 <TrueBrain> its fake anyway :P 21:00:41 <LordAro> there you go, picture 21:00:41 <LordAro> what more could you want 21:01:56 <TrueBrain> w00p 21:05:57 *** gregdek has quit IRC 21:05:57 *** reldred has quit IRC 21:12:13 <TrueBrain> frosch123: https://gist.github.com/TrueBrain/717ec940bb48d309747bffdc5b2e507e 21:12:38 <TrueBrain> it needs more thinking on some parts, but as I said .. I was thinking more minimalistic :D 21:14:02 <TrueBrain> especially scenarios, I think that can be done better 21:14:35 <andythenorth> installable presets :P 21:14:35 <andythenorth> preset grfs :P 21:15:27 *** gregdek has joined #openttd 21:15:55 <frosch123> TrueBrain: climates have to be part of presets. whatever a preset defines, it will depend strongly on climate 21:16:23 <TrueBrain> yeah, I forgot to write down: climates filter the presets 21:16:24 <TrueBrain> was my thinking 21:16:24 <frosch123> i realy like the idea of having a scrollbar and selecting a preset by image 21:16:38 <TrueBrain> hmm, that would work too 21:16:38 <frosch123> like selecting the template when making slides 21:16:52 <andythenorth> it looks good to me so far 21:17:00 <TrueBrain> so that window should filter the presets 21:17:09 <frosch123> new game would be three things: select template from images, play or customize 21:17:09 <TrueBrain> I have an idea to mix local and remote stuff .. 21:17:23 <TrueBrain> frosch123: sorry, I don't follow that 21:17:35 <frosch123> if you want to filter presets, than with a textbox :) 21:17:45 <_dp_> TrueBrain, why is it titled 1.12.0-beta1? :p 21:18:23 <TrueBrain> to set expectations 21:19:03 <andythenorth> 2.0.0 21:19:03 <andythenorth> the 'break some eggs' edition 21:19:24 <frosch123> TrueBrain: currently you separate climate and mapsize from all other settings. i don't think that will work. those two settings are just an arbitrary selection of many settings. i would consider date more important than either of your two :p 21:19:30 <frosch123> so i suggest to show now settigns at all 21:19:36 <_dp_> pitchfork edition :p 21:19:51 <frosch123> just: select preset from an extensible list of 100+ presets 21:19:51 <TrueBrain> frosch123: fair point 21:20:11 <frosch123> then play them directly, or select one and use it as base for customising your own preset 21:20:15 <TrueBrain> owh, that is smart 21:20:15 <TrueBrain> yyes 21:20:30 <andythenorth> grf 21:21:17 <TrueBrain> I guess it should be easy to filter presets 21:21:20 <TrueBrain> not only by name 21:21:24 <TrueBrain> but by stuff like map-size, etc 21:21:36 <frosch123> as a consequence. the "settings" button in the intro gui would only contian client settings, and possibly separated company settings. but no game settings 21:21:36 *** reldred has joined #openttd 21:21:56 <TrueBrain> yes 21:21:56 <TrueBrain> I like that :) 21:22:34 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 21:23:27 *** jottyfan has quit IRC 21:24:10 <TrueBrain> https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/1663690/108423292-fa1e7580-7237-11eb-8514-05e4de5f7237.png <- I was thinking something like this to combine local and remote <anything> 21:24:22 <TrueBrain> so presets, scenarios, heightmaps, etc 21:24:57 <TrueBrain> by default, only show local 21:24:57 <TrueBrain> when you press a button, it sends the query out to remote 21:24:57 <TrueBrain> (and adds the entries when found, and removes the button) 21:28:01 <frosch123> when you edit the image the next time, fix the typo :p 21:28:54 <TrueBrain> :D 21:30:42 <TrueBrain> updated https://gist.github.com/TrueBrain/717ec940bb48d309747bffdc5b2e507e with a new iteration 21:32:50 <TrueBrain> I think that reflects what you mentioned frosch123 :D 21:33:46 <TrueBrain> AI settings and stuff would be in Preset Configure 21:34:00 <TrueBrain> not sure that it needs their own window, or if it can just be in the list of other things 21:35:46 <frosch123> in my mind there would be 1000 presets, so where you put a combobox i would put a searchbox. but those details do not matter now 21:35:52 <frosch123> so, yes, looks good to me 21:36:04 <TrueBrain> combobox? :P 21:36:11 <frosch123> dropdown 21:36:14 <TrueBrain> ah :D 21:36:20 <TrueBrain> yeah, it will be a rich dropdown 21:36:23 <TrueBrain> not the default one 21:36:26 <TrueBrain> maybe a new window would be clear 21:36:32 <TrueBrain> but either way, per line an image and metadata of the preset 21:36:34 <TrueBrain> is my thinking 21:36:45 <TrueBrain> and yes, filters .. I have an idea for that too :P 21:36:49 <TrueBrain> scoping is becoming an issue 21:37:03 <frosch123> yep, i thought "only image" at first, but putting it in a row, with some text is way better 21:37:17 <frosch123> no scoping, just text filter 21:37:35 <TrueBrain> sorry, I meant scoping of this change :P As this touches a lot of things now :D 21:38:02 <frosch123> ah, well there are a lot of things which our "engine" does not support currently 21:38:03 <TrueBrain> and we have to code presets .. 21:38:24 <frosch123> putting all settings into the tree is already a big task 21:38:43 <TrueBrain> yeah, and change BaNaNaS for it 21:38:44 <frosch123> currently it has most, but it does not support all types of settings 21:38:46 <TrueBrain> come up with a format ... :P 21:38:54 <TrueBrain> but okay, we have a year for this 21:38:57 <frosch123> and then the second big thing would be displaying png from disk 21:39:06 <frosch123> which becomes very interesting with 8bpp blitters :p 21:39:29 <TrueBrain> when OpenGL lands, we have to seriously ask ourselves if we want to keep 8bpp blitters, honestly :) 21:39:35 <TrueBrain> but yeah, with them, interesting issue 21:40:42 <frosch123> yep, you have to kill 8bpp blitters to advance with showing all kind of previews 21:40:50 <andythenorth> are they still used? 21:40:50 <andythenorth> anonymous telemetry anyone? :P 21:41:35 <frosch123> andythenorth: 8bpp is default for windows in fullscreen, for linux in both windowed and fullscreen 21:42:00 <frosch123> just osx broke it compeltely years ago, so we force 32bpp on osx 21:42:00 <TrueBrain> and they are also faster on some platforms 21:42:06 <TrueBrain> but ... we cannot live in 1994 all the time 21:42:16 <frosch123> without opengl 8bpp is faster on all platforms :p 21:42:17 <supermop_Home_> but i wanna! 21:42:17 <andythenorth> every day, a school day 21:42:45 <andythenorth> supermop_Home_ not sure I'd pick 1994-1996 as my optimum years 21:42:45 <TrueBrain> I am really in favour of saying: sorry, on that machine, you can only run OpenTTD up till 1.10 21:42:45 <frosch123> the OS were always better at converting 8bpp to screen than we were 21:42:45 <supermop_Home_> i want to play ascendancy 21:42:52 <andythenorth> probably the least fun part of my life, although also the most illegal drugs 21:43:19 <supermop_Home_> i am bit younger, 21:43:19 <supermop_Home_> i'd say 98 was maybe more fun 21:43:34 <andythenorth> I'd pick 98-01 21:43:34 <supermop_Home_> but in 94 i got a lego police station for my birthday 21:43:48 <frosch123> 98 was the best year for computer games 21:43:49 <frosch123> halflife and starcraft 21:43:49 <TrueBrain> frosch123: the main question is, where do we take it from here ... do we work out the windows in great detail 21:43:49 <TrueBrain> or do we just start working on it, see where it ends 21:44:09 <andythenorth> Doom was 93 21:44:10 <andythenorth> and TTD and Railroad Tycoon 2 were nearby 21:44:10 <frosch123> TrueBrain: small steps 21:44:10 <supermop_Home_> and played a bunch of ascendancy, myst, SC2000 21:44:34 <frosch123> there were 3 earlier attempts at the mapgen gui, they all failed 21:44:46 <supermop_Home_> i got tto in 95, as after TTD came out, best buy had tto in a bargain bin for 21:44:54 <frosch123> if you change everything at once, you will forget something, and make people upset 21:44:54 <supermop_Home_> best i ever spent 21:44:54 <andythenorth> 97 was a weird year 21:44:54 <supermop_Home_> or worst 21:45:09 <TrueBrain> I am tempted to hardcode a few presets and otherwise make the UIs first 21:45:16 <frosch123> to take my recent the "move townnames to mapgen" as example 21:45:22 <supermop_Home_> as tto showed me the capsule tower, which got me into weird modular architecture 21:45:22 <andythenorth> in 1997 I was in Amsterdam, in a bar...doing what you do in Amsterdam 21:45:28 <frosch123> i technically made it very inconvenient to define townnames in scenario editor 21:45:36 <andythenorth> then the entire 3 racks of glass bar shelving with all the spirits spontaneously fell down 21:45:43 <andythenorth> which was very freaky 21:45:46 <frosch123> because creating a new scenario is completely weird... 21:46:01 <andythenorth> then we went out on the street..and there were trams...fricking everywhere :P 21:46:03 <andythenorth> like mad cows 21:46:06 <supermop_Home_> if i never played tto maybe i would have chosen a reasonable career and not wasted so much $ going to design school 21:47:12 <frosch123> TrueBrain: i see at least two changes, which are useful even without those new guis in mind 21:47:12 <TrueBrain> do tell? 21:47:12 <supermop_Home_> in 97 i was in middle school in yorkshire 21:47:44 <frosch123> making sure that the tree contains all settings is useful for the "show settings different than default" etc. (which was actually the initial reason to create the tree: to have everything in one place, and find stuff by filtering, instead of guessing the right category) 21:47:53 <supermop_Home_> learning the true meaning of the bullying based society that is an English boys school 21:48:01 <frosch123> but this part is already not easy :p 21:48:43 <TrueBrain> sorry, I do not follow what you mean there :) 21:48:46 <frosch123> a second and completely independent thing is showing loaded/generated bitmaps in-game: to show preview pngs from bananas tars, or heightmaps, or mapgen preview, ... 21:48:49 <supermop_Home_> somehow getting called out personally by the school chaplain for the US congress not signing on to the Kyoto protocol 21:49:06 <TrueBrain> a third is making an UI where local and remote content is integrated 21:49:11 <frosch123> TrueBrain: the settings tree currently does not contain all settings 21:49:16 <TrueBrain> we have plenty of those hidden "finding content online" buttons 21:49:21 <frosch123> some are only in "game options", some only in "mapgen" 21:49:27 <TrueBrain> ah, like that, yes 21:49:46 <TrueBrain> and I can mock a few new UI elements to see how that works 21:50:03 <frosch123> (and then there is the madness of transparency options, but noone figured that one out) 21:50:31 <TrueBrain> after that, we can mostly redo the UIs in this new idea 21:50:34 <TrueBrain> with some fixed presets 21:50:39 <TrueBrain> after that, local presets 21:50:42 <TrueBrain> followed by remote 21:50:44 <TrueBrain> doable 21:50:51 <frosch123> you forgot "finish opengl" somewhere on the road :p 21:51:01 <TrueBrain> well, first I am going to finish my 60fps PR 21:51:04 <TrueBrain> and hope someone dares to review it 21:52:33 <TrueBrain> Discord idea: make it possible you can change the presets on the intro yourself 21:52:39 <TrueBrain> "So most advanced players will eventually forget toyland even happened" 21:52:42 <TrueBrain> I dig that :) 21:52:51 <andythenorth> poor old toyland 21:52:56 <andythenorth> I think it should be kept :) 21:53:00 <andythenorth> it's a classic 21:53:11 <TrueBrain> frosch123: talking about 60fps PR, I need some advise .. the main gameloop is now the same for all drivers, with some minor bits and pieces different 21:53:19 <TrueBrain> I want to deduplicate that, as .. this makes little sense 21:53:19 <_dp_> most advanced players actually like toyland :p 21:53:25 <TrueBrain> but ... where to put that ... 21:53:32 <TrueBrain> openttd.cpp, consider it part of the MainLoop 21:53:35 <TrueBrain> or keep it in video_driver.hpp 21:53:39 <TrueBrain> it all feels a bit dirty 21:58:01 <frosch123> TrueBrain: src/video/base_v.cpp ? 21:58:27 <frosch123> we also have baseclasses for blitters, why not for video drivers? 21:59:31 <TrueBrain> owh, if that is true, yes, that is a good idea 21:59:36 <frosch123> i think you wrote the blitter classes :p 21:59:36 <TrueBrain> I remember vaguely something like that, yes :P 22:01:01 <TrueBrain> okay, yes, that would work 22:01:08 <TrueBrain> means I don't have to copy/paste everything every single time 22:01:15 <TrueBrain> it became a bit silly :D 22:05:01 <andythenorth> sometimes I am so glad that I automated so much of my grf compiles 22:05:09 <andythenorth> :P 22:05:33 <andythenorth> doesn't always seem that way when writing it, or when the magic goes wrong 22:06:39 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: I am disappointed you didn't write 0.00% :P It is important to be exact! 22:09:32 <andythenorth> is this train done yet? 22:09:47 *** nielsm has quit IRC 22:10:53 <TrueBrain> https://skyline.github.com/truebrain/2020 <- can you guess when I had a job and when I did not had a job? :D 22:11:47 <andythenorth> I happen to be playing exactly the correct 80s synth music for this visualisation 22:12:36 <andythenorth> now I want to do mine, but it's boring https://skyline.github.com/andythenorth/2020 22:13:29 <TrueBrain> you have been busy 22:14:25 <andythenorth> TB has more than me :o 22:14:29 <frosch123> i have no idea what those things show 22:14:48 <frosch123> but i guess that's not their purpose 22:14:48 <TrueBrain> activity graph in 3D 22:15:17 <TrueBrain> https://github.com/TrueBrain/ <- that graph there 22:15:28 <TrueBrain> but yeah, they could have mentioned that :D 22:15:50 <frosch123> ah, weeks 22:16:12 <TrueBrain> yeah, I like the ideas for the new UI 22:16:19 <frosch123> i see no different between work days and weeked in my case :p 22:16:22 <TrueBrain> but first, I need to make a new UI element for game-speed 22:16:55 <TrueBrain> I know what I want, but I have to make it .... 22:17:04 <TrueBrain> something for this weekend, I guess :D 22:17:57 <michi_cc> TrueBrain: You found a bug in the OpenGL PR by fixing BoundingRect :) Code fails for any top-left that is not 0. 22:19:55 <TrueBrain> Haha 22:20:09 <TrueBrain> Nice :D 22:21:01 *** Samu has quit IRC 22:21:17 <michi_cc> There's a bit which needs to be fed byte offsets, but was fed pixel offsets. Pixel 0 is of course also byte 0. 22:23:26 <andythenorth> michi_cc thanks for the macos improvements btw, it's so much better 22:23:27 <andythenorth> I can use full animation again 22:23:27 <andythenorth> and fast FFWD is so helpful for testing grf 22:35:34 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 23:13:40 <andythenorth> bed! 23:13:40 <andythenorth> etc 23:13:40 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 23:28:39 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 23:41:40 <supermop_Home_> i am eagerly awaiting someone to complain on forum abt my hotel sprite 23:45:15 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 23:46:12 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7575: Feature: Industry production graph https://git.io/JtyqU 23:46:12 *** gelignite has quit IRC 23:47:00 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7851: Change: add support for next/previous railtype global hotkeys https://git.io/Jtyqq 23:48:33 *** arikover has quit IRC 23:52:52 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8603: Feature: Object class selection string filtering https://git.io/Jtyq2 23:54:42 <_dp_> aren't there already some examples of hotkeys without widgets? 23:54:52 <_dp_> GHK_MODB_RAT_PREV_RAILTYPE = 1 << GHK_MOD_RAT_PREV_RAILTYPE is ugly af 23:55:38 <_dp_> and doesn't even need bitshifting, it's just an arbitrary constant 23:56:42 <LordAro> there's quite a few examples of bitshifting like that out there too 23:56:49 <LordAro> feel free to do your own review :) 23:56:59 <LordAro> it's going to get forgotten if you put it here :p 23:59:03 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8680: Feature: configurable refresh-rate and change default to 60fps https://git.io/Jtyqy 23:59:16 <_dp_> where is bitshifting? I only see some increments