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00:06:33 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 01:02:13 *** spnda has quit IRC 01:02:49 *** Progman has quit IRC 01:20:40 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 01:21:46 *** glx has quit IRC 01:26:06 *** didac has joined #openttd 02:24:34 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 02:30:49 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 04:01:11 *** Wuzzy has quit IRC 04:54:49 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 05:28:47 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] perezdidac opened pull request #8941: Fix: fix nullptr deletion in DeleteWindowById https://git.io/JYDBU 06:22:07 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 06:41:00 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #8938: Codechange: Use COINIT_MULTITHREADED in CoInitializeEx https://git.io/JY1ZX 06:45:59 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8941: Fix: fix nullptr deletion in DeleteWindowById https://git.io/JYDwd 06:49:57 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] perezdidac commented on pull request #8941: Fix: fix nullptr deletion in DeleteWindowById https://git.io/JYDrC 07:01:58 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #8931: Remove blob https://git.io/JYiiw 07:03:10 *** Progman has joined #openttd 07:05:02 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh requested changes for pull request #8941: Fix: fix nullptr deletion in DeleteWindowById https://git.io/JYDKy 07:10:10 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #8939: Object selection window button doesn't appear lowered after clicking on it https://git.io/JY1pm 07:11:30 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] perezdidac updated pull request #8941: Fix: fix nullptr deletion in DeleteWindowById https://git.io/JYDBU 07:11:34 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] undeniablebis opened issue #8942: OBS Studio Game Capture crash https://git.io/JYD61 07:14:17 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh dismissed a review for pull request #8941: Fix: fix nullptr deletion in DeleteWindowById https://git.io/JYDKy 07:14:54 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] perezdidac commented on pull request #8941: Fix: fix nullptr deletion in DeleteWindowById https://git.io/JYDin 07:18:46 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #8942: OBS Studio Game Capture crash https://git.io/JYD61 07:21:47 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] smsm1 commented on issue #8935: Crash on save on macOS https://git.io/JYXtv 07:29:56 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] undeniablebis commented on issue #8942: OBS Studio Game Capture crash https://git.io/JYD61 07:32:10 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 07:35:32 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #8942: OBS Studio Game Capture crash https://git.io/JYD61 07:37:09 *** didac has quit IRC 07:49:28 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 07:50:59 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 08:02:49 <andythenorth> yo 08:21:56 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 08:27:43 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on issue #8935: Crash on save on macOS https://git.io/JYXtv 08:27:44 <peter1138> Hello 08:29:50 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] undeniablebis commented on issue #8942: OBS Studio Game Capture crash https://git.io/JYD61 08:30:54 <peter1138> "My graphics card is GeForce 720m v388.73" Seems kinda ancient now... 08:31:29 <Timberwolf> The most modern graphics card you can actually buy and get delivered within 1-3 days! 08:32:09 <peter1138> Heh 08:33:20 <nielsm> that's almost identical to my setup except I have a geforce 2060 (desktop, rtx), and then driver version 456.1 08:33:35 <Timberwolf> andythenorth: I have a theory that every UK GRF author will eventually find themselves in Pikka's Koan. 08:33:47 <Timberwolf> The novice does not understand, and builds no grf. 08:34:06 <Timberwolf> The initiate builds a grf with many vehicles and features, and is frustrated they do not work exactly as hoped. 08:34:18 <Timberwolf> They learn that features are bad, and should not be used. 08:34:29 <Timberwolf> They learn that nobody wants 2x or EZ, and it should not be used. 08:34:44 <Timberwolf> They learn that there should be a single optimal locomotive and wagon at each point in the game. 08:35:07 <Timberwolf> They learn that for a UK set, those are the Jinty, the A4, the Class 25, 37, 47, the HST... 08:35:15 <Timberwolf> The expert understands, and builds no grf. 08:36:20 <peter1138> :/ 08:39:20 <Timberwolf> m versions of Nvidia GPUs can have a weird setup where they swap between intel GPU and accelerated one. 08:39:55 <Timberwolf> Not sure if the 720m has it, I have a laptop with an 870m that does. 08:40:30 <Timberwolf> I'll see if I can reproduce it later. 08:40:42 <andythenorth> Does a grf that isn't built in a forest make any sound if no-one is there to here it? 08:40:44 <andythenorth> hear * 08:41:45 <andythenorth> I am going to have a break from grf for a bit 08:41:51 <andythenorth> graphviz is a lot more interesting 08:41:55 <andythenorth> and equally annoying 08:42:14 <andythenorth> strictly it's grfgraphviz 08:42:29 <nielsm> grfwiz 08:43:01 <Timberwolf> andythenorth: depends if it uses callback 33. 08:43:15 <andythenorth> we could _probably_ make bananas generate these for all industry grfs? https://grf.farm/firs/4.0.0/html/economies.html 08:43:37 <nielsm> https://0x0.st/-cPG.png working on something 08:43:59 <andythenorth> 'finally sound mixing in the game options' 08:44:05 <andythenorth> OpenTTD 2.0 then 08:44:41 * andythenorth looks how Timberwolf solved luxury pax coaches 08:45:01 <Timberwolf> I didn't, it just uses cargo aging ineffectually same as everyone else. 08:45:28 <Timberwolf> It kind of works for preserved railways, but only because the speeds are very low and the values so extreme. 08:45:31 <peter1138> nielsm, can we also make the volume sliders coherent? 08:45:41 <peter1138> Currently I hear no differences between half-way and max... 08:45:43 <Timberwolf> (25mph limit, then cargo aging ranges from 74 to 500 or so) 08:46:00 <nielsm> peter1138 I guess that has to do with logarithms and stuff 08:46:34 <Timberwolf> In that case it highlights how weird the aging algorithm is - you change the optimal length of route more than anything. 08:47:32 <andythenorth> I was hoping for a cunning plan 08:47:36 <andythenorth> that I could copy 08:48:36 <peter1138> Also: apply the master effect volume to the output, not to volume of sounds that are started. 08:49:00 <peter1138> Currently volumes of existing sounds are not changed! 08:49:20 <peter1138> But... that's all separate to making sliders in a useful place. Maybe I should look... 08:53:12 * andythenorth looks how running cost is actually applied in the game 08:53:26 <andythenorth> wondering if we can have a newgrf callback to calculate it every n ticks 08:54:09 <Timberwolf> It is on a callback which gets updated pretty frequently, I use that. 08:55:04 <andythenorth> I need to calculate it proportional to how long since the cargo loaded 08:55:15 <andythenorth> I am trying to implement a multiplier on the cargo payment 08:55:20 <Timberwolf> Interesting. 08:55:33 <andythenorth> so if I copy all the FIRS payment rate values into Horse (I can script this) 08:55:48 <Timberwolf> This is my running cost - it's a bit of a spaghetti because the "lower ramp up for early vehicles" was a last-minute hack. https://github.com/mattkimber/timberwolfs_trains/blob/master/templates/nested/running_cost_switch.tmpl 08:55:50 <andythenorth> then re-implement the openttd cargo payment calculation inside Horse 08:56:01 <andythenorth> then measure the current amount of cargo 08:56:24 <andythenorth> then measure the days elapsed since the cargo loaded 08:56:54 <andythenorth> I can calculate run costs vs. the amount that will be earnt 08:57:20 <andythenorth> so that some vehicles earn 10% more or 10% less than others for the same journey 08:57:50 <peter1138> Also more 2x sprites please. 08:59:15 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 08:59:44 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 09:02:33 <andythenorth> hmm I can't think of any worse ways to do a payment multiplier 09:02:41 <andythenorth> I did try 09:03:32 <Timberwolf> GS! 09:04:36 <andythenorth> I think you'll find my suggestion is entirely sensible 09:04:42 <andythenorth> whereas GS is just...silly 09:05:01 <andythenorth> I did consider if we can manipulate infrastructure maintenance costs 09:05:53 <nielsm> holy--- I managed to actually get the two volume sliders to be the exact same size!! 09:10:50 *** roadt__ has joined #openttd 09:17:58 *** roadt_ has quit IRC 09:22:20 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 09:23:06 <nielsm> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/337701432230805505/828197505397162014/2021-04-04_11-20-33.mp4 09:27:06 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh opened pull request #8943: Volume controls in Game Options window https://git.io/JYye0 09:36:10 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 09:40:42 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #8941: Fix: fix nullptr deletion in DeleteWindowById https://git.io/JYyfl 09:41:42 <nielsm> we've already spent more time and energy on #8941 than will ever be saved in cpu cycles by merging it 09:58:40 <andythenorth> :) 10:01:12 * andythenorth makes graphviz 10:05:36 <nielsm> so will an offline party for issue #10000 be possible, anyone think? 10:06:37 <andythenorth> zoom quiz! 10:06:42 <andythenorth> do a livestream nielsm :) 10:22:09 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 10:25:32 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 10:38:18 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8942: OBS Studio Game Capture crash https://git.io/JYD61 10:38:58 <TrueBrain> we should change the template to ask for both crash.log and crash.dmp, but that they should zip the .dmp :D 10:40:15 <_dp_> will it help when they just delete the template anyway? :p 10:41:32 <nielsm> TrueBrain: otoh the crash.log file indicates it's already deep in the nvidia driver when it crashes 10:47:02 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #8942: OBS Studio Game Capture crash https://git.io/JYD61 10:49:44 <TrueBrain> nielsm: there is a reason I ask for these things ;) 10:49:47 *** Samu has joined #openttd 10:52:53 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] undeniablebis commented on issue #8942: OBS Studio Game Capture crash https://git.io/JYD61 10:55:52 <peter1138> Someone mentioned it could be something to do with Optimus. 10:56:13 <peter1138> Which I would imagine is most likely out of OpenTTD's control. 11:07:09 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7786: Add: Help and manuals window https://git.io/JeBQt 11:22:12 <Eddi|zuHause> nielsm: what would an offline party look like nowadays? 11:22:43 <Eddi|zuHause> also, we have a naming conflict, we already had a 10k party 11:23:13 <_dp_> 10k-2 party 11:23:37 <Eddi|zuHause> well, there was no r10000 :p 11:23:45 <Eddi|zuHause> the cake was a lie 11:29:50 <frosch123> andythenorth: would you use "cost_factor: auto;" and "running_cost_factor: auto;" in NML? :p 11:30:17 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: what would that do? 11:32:19 <andythenorth> frosch123 'it depends' 11:32:42 <andythenorth> I already auto-calculate most of the costs 11:32:58 <andythenorth> ideally I'd set a spread, and just delegate the rest somewhere 11:33:00 <frosch123> yeah, expected somethingl ike that :) 11:33:56 <andythenorth> if I could delegate the costs, I probably would, if the per-vehicle option for over-rides existed 11:34:14 <andythenorth> setting costs tends towards 'balancing', which I hate 11:34:29 <andythenorth> let OpenTTD balance :P 11:34:56 <frosch123> can we somehow encrypt add-ons, so that their balancing can be a secret, and people have to play and interpret its behavior, instead of trash-talking the implementation? 11:35:07 <andythenorth> ha 11:35:10 <andythenorth> dunno :D 11:35:44 <frosch123> economy-as-a-service 11:35:59 <andythenorth> somewhat :) 11:36:59 <andythenorth> as a vehicle author, I just wanted to let player explore capacity and/or loading speed as choices 11:37:10 <andythenorth> alongside vehicle speed 11:37:12 <frosch123> if we add instrumentation and phoning-home to openttd, we can train some neural net 11:37:18 <andythenorth> o_O 11:37:47 <frosch123> "do you want to participate in balancing this add-on, you can opt-in to send usage and profits statistics" 11:39:48 <frosch123> hmm, people wanted bananas download statistics. but aren't usage statistics more interesting? the flat-bed wagon generation 5C was built 1.5 billion times? 11:40:58 <frosch123> it has transported 4.5 petatons of steel 11:42:06 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #8937: Ships saying they are lost https://git.io/JY1Ze 11:42:09 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro closed issue #8937: Ships saying they are lost https://git.io/JY1Ze 11:45:22 <andythenorth> frosch123 arbitrary statistics are super :) 11:45:42 <peter1138> Could you make a bot that connects to multiplayer servers, lists every vehicle, and... keeps doing it over time. 11:45:53 <peter1138> Just to annoy server owners with pause-on-join :D 11:46:13 <peter1138> And players, for that matter. 11:48:49 <frosch123> how about a master-password for servers and admin ports? 11:49:15 <frosch123> when advertising to the master server, you have to provide an ssh key with root access 11:51:09 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc opened pull request #8944: Fix #8935: [OSX] Crash when clicking 'Save' due to wrongly-threaded OS call. https://git.io/JYycG 11:51:25 <michi_cc> andythenorth: ^^^ Something to check 11:51:29 <andythenorth> I will test that later if nobody else does 11:51:33 * andythenorth going out shortly 11:52:05 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 11:52:13 <TrueBrain> so you will be testing it later :D 11:52:14 <TrueBrain> :P 11:53:15 <andythenorth> that was my assumption too 11:53:25 <andythenorth> but you never know, maybe we get new contribs 11:59:49 <peter1138> bjarni could always turn up 12:00:04 <TrueBrain> grrr, I hate MSVC debugging tool 12:04:50 <andythenorth> bbl 12:04:52 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 12:11:15 <Timberwolf> OK, my 870m laptop doesn't immediately repro that crash :( 12:11:34 <Timberwolf> In fact it improves things, OBS used to capture a blank screen because it only captured things running on the GPU. 12:11:51 * Timberwolf has a go at shifting OpenTTD to the Intel GPU. 12:12:31 <Eddi|zuHause> <frosch123> "do you want to participate in balancing this add-on, you can opt-in to send usage and profits statistics" <-- and a giant red "opt in" button, and opting out takes you through 5 more menus with confusingly named options which all mean "opt in" 12:13:50 <Timberwolf> .. and also fine on Intel (although I can only capture a black screen there) 12:17:15 <Timberwolf> Ooh, a thought - what if OBS is the thing running on integrated. 12:18:44 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8942: OBS Studio Game Capture crash https://git.io/JYD61 12:18:58 <peter1138> Not sure I dare install OBS on this old laptop. It struggles to run Windows 10 alone... 12:20:11 <TrueBrain> Timberwolf: yup, one of the nice things about OpenGL support is that OBS finally works "correct" :P 12:20:22 <TrueBrain> the way OBS does it, however, is one giant hack :P 12:22:30 <peter1138> Damn, the game crashes when I update drivers under it ;-) 12:22:30 *** spnda has joined #openttd 12:22:34 <TrueBrain> the 720m is not really supported anymore by nvidia, that makes it a bit tricky 12:23:00 <peter1138> That never happened with the old version, must be a new bug! 12:23:16 <TrueBrain> you can file that bug under /dev/null I am afraid :D 12:23:20 <peter1138> :D 12:25:22 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] mattkimber commented on issue #8942: OBS Studio Game Capture crash https://git.io/JYD61 12:26:27 <TrueBrain> lol @ blank screen :D 12:26:33 <TrueBrain> doesn't OBS sniff out what GPU is used? 12:26:34 <TrueBrain> sad :) 12:26:40 <peter1138> Also my start menu no longer works, hah. 12:28:03 <peter1138> I guess Steam can be my start menu now. 12:29:16 <TrueBrain> Timberwolf: your drivers are a full year newer than what you can get on 720m :D 12:29:25 <TrueBrain> I am curious if there is any fix in between :P 12:32:02 <TrueBrain> "i dont get it, been playing this for years, and now theres a livestream Q&A????" <- what are people saying exactly? 12:32:12 <TrueBrain> you are not allowed to do a livestream Q&A because I have been playing this for years? 12:32:18 <TrueBrain> confused 12:32:29 <spnda> Can I somehow get the DriverFactoryBase instance from the current videodriver? 12:32:51 <peter1138> TrueBrain, that's some special kind of gatekeeping 12:33:07 <TrueBrain> happens a lot on Steam, for some reason :) 12:35:00 <LordAro> https://steamcommunity.com/app/1536610/discussions/0/3076496088119636101/ curious. 12:35:11 <TrueBrain> https://steamcommunity.com/id/AdamMil/recommended/1536610/ <- nice review; some good points, also some very weird statements. A nice mix :) But does underline what we already know :) 12:36:02 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on pull request #8936: Add: Plural support for Romanian translations https://git.io/JYyBn 12:37:03 <frosch123> TrueBrain: clearly they want to be on the stream :p 12:37:29 <TrueBrain> frosch123: I like how you look at the world like that :) 12:38:15 <frosch123> LordAro: random guess: downloading content != enabling them for a new game != affecting older savegames 12:38:25 <LordAro> possible 12:40:47 <_dp_> TrueBrain, that's all because you call it business simulator :p 12:41:04 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8941: Fix: fix nullptr deletion in DeleteWindowById https://git.io/JYyBx 12:41:16 <TrueBrain> _dp_: where in there it says: realism? :P 12:41:28 <TrueBrain> guess it is a good thing he wasn't comparing sizes of busses with trains :D 12:41:37 <TrueBrain> no, I am kidding, he has some good points 12:41:41 <TrueBrain> economy is weird :) 12:41:49 <_dp_> TrueBrain, somewhere in the word simulator :p 12:42:55 <frosch123> TrueBrain: yay, the game description on twitch is already updated 12:43:07 <TrueBrain> \o/ 12:43:37 <frosch123> someone will be angry about "gpl 2.0" :p 12:44:28 <TrueBrain> all changes got accepted in full, sweet 12:45:02 <TrueBrain> lol @ frosch123 :D 12:45:40 <TrueBrain> now the tag "Open World" is added 12:45:43 <TrueBrain> I did not do that :P 12:47:34 <frosch123> at least it's no walking simulator 12:49:14 <_dp_> clicker 12:49:20 <_dp_> all you do is click-click-click :p 12:50:18 <_dp_> lol, reviews 12:50:28 <_dp_> apparently openttd is a bad factorio 12:51:11 <_dp_> oh, wait, that's not openttd review xDDD 12:51:35 * _dp_ got lost in steam uii 12:51:50 <frosch123> now we want to know which game you were looking at :p 12:52:50 <_dp_> shapez.io 12:53:00 <TrueBrain> that is a fun game :D 12:53:02 <TrueBrain> even bought it on Steam 12:53:30 <frosch123> well, the similarity to factorio is obvious :) 13:05:30 <Timberwolf> TrueBrain: makes sense, I think the GPU family is... about a year newer. 13:08:23 <Timberwolf> I think people are a bit surprised by a 17 year old game having active development to the point of, "people will come on a stream and answer your questions" 13:08:29 <_dp_> is all that really necessary just to make cmake copy some files? https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/bin/ai/CMakeLists.txt 13:09:11 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/eints] frosch123 opened pull request #40: Add: plural form 14, used in Romanian. https://git.io/JYyzf 13:13:05 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on pull request #8936: Add: Plural support for Romanian translations https://git.io/JYyzu 13:15:14 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/eints] frosch123 updated pull request #40: Add: plural form 14, used in Romanian. https://git.io/JYyzf 13:17:09 <FLHerne> _dp_: It's true, OpenTTD was so bad at being Factorio that V453000 went off and made Factorio instead :p 13:17:49 <FLHerne> The other review guy wants YACDist :p 13:17:56 * FLHerne also wants YACDist 13:18:24 <FLHerne> And the random disconnected industries annoy me too 13:18:42 <FLHerne> I make a point of building roads to all of them ASAP, whether or not they're being serviced yet 13:19:03 <Timberwolf> Dwarf Fortress level civilisation modelling or nothing. 13:19:25 *** glx has joined #openttd 13:19:25 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 13:19:28 <frosch123> FLHerne: there are several GS to connect towns via roads 13:19:39 <Timberwolf> What does the church in Flundinghattan worship? Why was it built? What decorations adorn the walls? 13:19:41 <frosch123> or were they AIs? 13:19:43 <FLHerne> Yeah, but only one GS per game 13:19:56 <FLHerne> There's WMDot AI, but it's slow 13:20:10 <Timberwolf> CivilAI used to do it IIRC, although Pikka took it out as weird and annoying for people who didn't want loads of town connections. 13:20:16 <FLHerne> and all the AI roadpathfinders build stupid-looking ugly grids that don't fit the terrain nicely 13:20:55 <FLHerne> Timberwolf: One of the town building sets (UK Town Set?) has churches with dedications 13:21:03 <FLHerne> if you use the info button on them 13:21:11 <Timberwolf> Needs to be fully procedural! 13:22:19 <Timberwolf> The road between Flundinghattan and Plartown is ugly and grid like, but you check the church and see it was built by the civilisation of the Brazen Dragon, who found grid-like structures attractive. 13:23:13 <Timberwolf> Need things like ancient forts and castles as alternatives to transmitters. :) 13:23:14 <FLHerne> "famous for its pink volcanoes" 13:23:48 <FLHerne> ECS Tourist industries 13:24:04 <FLHerne> Lots of fancy castles 13:24:16 <Timberwolf> "This company statue depicts a bus transporting cave rabbits. The bus is striking a menacing pose. The cave rabbits are striking a menacing pose." 13:25:53 <FLHerne> Now that's definitely dwarf fortress 13:29:19 <frosch123> hmm, i don't know how eints works :( 13:29:31 <aperezdc> There is also Transmitter by Date, which I personally find quite neat 13:29:55 <TrueBrain> frosch123: if not you, who does?! :D 13:30:19 <aperezdc> Doesn't really have big castles, but it has a couple of old timey brick/stone towers 13:30:36 <aperezdc> It could use a bit of randomization, tho 13:31:35 <glx> frosch123: no need to update romanian.txt in openttd repo ? 13:32:53 <peter1138> Hmm, why does git tell me whole functions have been changed when there's no changes... 13:33:05 <peter1138> I suspect EOL style but it's not exactly apparent. 13:35:29 <frosch123> glx: i am trying to figure that out :) currently i think "#8936 should also update romanian.txt". but in my test enviroment it does not work either way :p 13:35:33 <Zuu> `git diff --ignore-space-change` is handy sometimes 13:37:25 <LordAro> git should be better at eol stuff 13:37:30 <LordAro> (than svn) 13:38:55 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/eints] LordAro approved pull request #40: Add: plural form 14, used in Romanian. https://git.io/JYyVI 13:39:39 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #8945: Fix: Apply master effect volume during mixing instead of sound start. https://git.io/JYyVO 13:42:12 *** Wuzzy has joined #openttd 13:42:14 <TrueBrain> frosch123: isn't there what the sync_language stuff is for? 13:42:53 <frosch123> my local eints doesn't even accept a new base language :p 13:43:04 <TrueBrain> :( 13:44:17 <frosch123> i don't know whether changing the plural form in git is enough, or whether we need to delete and recreate the language in eints 13:44:26 <frosch123> i want to test that, but don't get so far :p 13:51:00 <TrueBrain> you can try on staging? 13:51:01 <TrueBrain> dunno 13:56:13 <frosch123> i'll try lunch instead 14:01:19 <TrueBrain> lunch at 1600? You are weird :P 14:01:50 * Zuu just started eating lunch too 14:01:57 <TrueBrain> equally weird :P 14:03:30 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #8945: Fix: Apply master effect volume during mixing instead of sound start. https://git.io/JYyKG 14:06:47 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #8945: Fix: Apply master effect volume during mixing instead of sound start. https://git.io/JYyKy 14:10:42 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc approved pull request #8945: Fix: Apply master effect volume during mixing instead of sound start. https://git.io/JYy68 14:35:37 <_dp_> is it a know thing that -b 40bpp-anim -v sdl crashes? 14:35:44 <_dp_> I feel like I've seen it somewhere 14:37:15 <spnda> does a Blitter encode a sprite each time it draws or just once? 14:37:16 <milek7> yes, you complained about it before ;p 14:38:07 <_dp_> lol 14:39:20 <TrueBrain> but yet no ticket about it .. ;) 14:42:10 <TrueBrain> we currently have slightly more player on Steam than yesterday .. new max incoming? :P 14:50:16 <spnda> TrueBrain: Yes, new max 14:56:53 <milek7> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/e8a94dc8bbffbf3a48c9826531e116af5ff31396/src/saveload/linkgraph_sl.cpp#L212 14:57:02 <milek7> new (index) LinkGraphJob(); 14:57:12 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/nml] glx22 opened pull request #200: Change: Display input filename https://git.io/JYyyg 14:57:21 <milek7> is this placement new? but index is not a pointer.. 14:57:45 <frosch123> it's the overloaded new operator 14:58:01 <glx> it's using Pool IIRC 14:58:19 <milek7> ah, more magic 15:04:19 <_dp_> why is it still using 40bpp-anim if I have animations disabled? 15:05:04 <glx> because we don't change blitter on the fly, and animations can be enabled after openttd start 15:05:28 <_dp_> so the only way to choose 32bpp is via console or config? 15:07:21 <glx> yes it's the only way to not use default auto detected blitter 15:08:08 <frosch123> it will pick 32bpp if you disable opengl/hardware acceleration 15:08:30 <_dp_> well, yeah, but I don't want to disable opengl 15:08:43 <frosch123> when not using opengl, it will switch 8bpp, 32bpp and 32bpp-anim happily in-game 15:08:58 <_dp_> basically, I don't care about animation and want the fastest rendering 15:09:05 <_dp_> apparently I can't do that via gui 15:14:27 <milek7> with opengl, I doubt animation will make any difference 15:18:28 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 15:21:31 <michi_cc> _dp_: If you want the fastes possible rendering and don't run 32bpp NewGRFs, change 'support8bpp' in your config to 'system', then you can get OpenGL with 8bpp blitter. 15:23:26 <peter1138> Hmm, trying to work out what's best for perceived loudness... ^2 or ^3 15:26:21 <milek7> neither 15:26:26 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Vindigo89 opened issue #8946: First song (nr. "00") in a music set/programme is always skipped https://git.io/JYy7y 15:26:49 <peter1138> milek7, why? 15:27:30 <milek7> it should be logarithmic 15:27:53 <milek7> https://www.dr-lex.be/info-stuff/volumecontrols.html 15:28:07 <milek7> hm, they suggest x^4 as approximation 15:28:44 <peter1138> Quite. 15:28:53 <peter1138> I tried x^4 but it was pretty extreme. 15:29:19 <peter1138> They also mention different curves. 15:29:47 <peter1138> If it approximately matches the music volume slider, then I'm happy with that. 15:30:10 *** Artea has quit IRC 15:32:05 <peter1138> I guess it's rather dependent on what my maximum volume is too. 15:32:11 <_dp_> michi_cc, is 8bpp still faster than 32 even with opengl? 15:32:17 *** Artea has joined #openttd 15:32:48 <peter1138> It's moving less bytes around, so... 15:32:53 <michi_cc> _dp_: Yes, as it has to move only a quarter of the bytes around. 15:33:32 <michi_cc> The only reason we disabled it by default was that "everybody" complained about worse transparency effect and non-antialiased text. 15:33:44 <peter1138> milek7, for me with ^4 it seems only the top 25% of our slider is usable. 15:35:25 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler commented on issue #8946: First song (nr. "00") in a music set/programme is always skipped https://git.io/JYy7y 15:39:09 <_dp_> michi_cc, yeah, 8bpp looks terrible 15:39:13 <_dp_> it's the last resort basically 15:42:31 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 15:42:38 <peter1138> milek7, also don't forget it's meant to be a game volume slider, not a professional mixing desk volume slider :-) 15:43:16 <milek7> :) 15:43:16 <milek7> I also wonder how this interacts with OS volume 15:47:34 <peter1138> I think x^2 works best. With even x^3, setting the music volume low and then setting the effects volume to the same value makes the music audible and the effects non-existent. 15:49:08 <peter1138> Hmm, although actually that may just be because the music is louder than the effects anyway. Hmm :/ 15:54:59 *** Flygon has quit IRC 15:55:23 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 16:01:29 <andythenorth> frosch123 so some sort of magical game-scaling factor? 16:01:42 <andythenorth> that adjusts run cost, buy cost, payment rate, cargo decay... 16:01:56 <andythenorth> that's what 'auto' does? o_O 16:03:46 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on issue #8946: First song (nr. "00") in a music set/programme is always skipped https://git.io/JYy7y 16:14:05 *** Artea has quit IRC 16:16:20 *** Artea has joined #openttd 16:17:34 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Vindigo89 commented on issue #8946: First song (nr. "00") in a music set/programme is always skipped https://git.io/JYy7y 16:17:37 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Vindigo89 closed issue #8946: First song (nr. "00") in a music set/programme is always skipped https://git.io/JYy7y 16:19:50 *** Artea has quit IRC 16:28:26 *** emre has joined #openttd 16:34:09 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] BloodyIron opened issue #8947: [Feature Request] Key binds, changing all of them (also, WASD movement) https://git.io/JYSUC 16:34:37 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/team] ss141309 opened issue #183: hi_IN Translator access request https://git.io/JYSUg 16:49:03 *** Artea has joined #openttd 16:50:36 <snail_UES_> andythenorth: what happened to Manufacturing Supplies? 16:53:05 *** Artea has quit IRC 16:55:04 <andythenorth> snail_UES_ eliminated 16:55:18 <FLHerne> but why 16:55:30 <snail_UES_> beautiful. I’ll have to keep it for backward compatibility 16:55:37 *** Artea has joined #openttd 16:55:51 <snail_UES_> it’s not so great if industry sets keep adding and removing cargo types like that... 16:55:59 * FLHerne is increasingly tempted to make yet another FIRS port with different opinions, but there are enough unmaintained FIRS ports 16:56:03 <FLHerne> *fork 16:56:14 <FLHerne> I have words, I swear 16:58:26 <andythenorth> words 16:58:44 <andythenorth> FLHerne there are even maintained FIRS forks 16:58:51 <andythenorth> (I believe) 16:59:09 <snail_UES_> andythenorth: Steel Sheets. Should they appear as flat sheets, coils, or both? 16:59:32 <andythenorth> usually coil 16:59:51 <andythenorth> coils weren't invented until 1940s or so 17:00:04 <andythenorth> so if you want super accurate, thin flat sheet for early days 17:00:08 * andythenorth is not very accurate 17:02:00 <snail_UES_> got it 17:03:31 <peter1138> Grr, my files are in LF mode, and vs code is in LF mode, but randomly parts get updated with CRLF. Or something. 17:04:23 <andythenorth> uuf 17:11:20 <peter1138> And I tell VS Code to highlight line-endings, even that SAYS it's not using CRLF... 17:12:54 <peter1138> Okay so maybe I should try forcing CRLF and getting git to convert... 17:15:46 <peter1138> Also, only seems to be mixer.cpp, so far. 17:20:53 <peter1138> Worked it out. 17:21:18 <peter1138> It's CRLF already in the repo. I blame nielsm 17:21:44 <snail_UES_> phew. Just added STAL,STCB,CSTI,STST,STSE,STWR,STSH and ALUM to my short flat wagons :P 17:24:53 <TrueBrain> peter1138: I was about to say :D That file is already foobar :P 17:25:20 <peter1138> I thought there were hooks to prevent stuff like that. Guess not. 17:25:33 <TrueBrain> for subversion we had those, I think 17:25:51 <TrueBrain> but these days, the translation should be done by git transparently 17:26:12 <andythenorth> snail_UES_ coil cars? :) 17:26:14 <peter1138> It relies on the correct settings client-side though. And github doesn't show it. 17:26:15 <TrueBrain> but clearly, git failed here :) 17:26:37 <TrueBrain> and the editor shouldn't do these idiotic things either, tbfh :P 17:26:39 <snail_UES_> andythenorth: not in the narrow gauge set… they’re just simple flat cars with coils on top 17:26:53 <snail_UES_> I will have coil cars in the SG set 17:27:20 <snail_UES_> but if “someone” keeps creating new cargoes out of thin air, I’m never going to have the time to work on my SG set :D 17:27:24 <glx> I guess we could add EOL checks to commit checker 17:27:42 <TrueBrain> it is the only file in the whole repo that is wrong 17:28:09 <glx> yes, but to prevent error next time 17:28:24 <TrueBrain> personally, I would say: it went wrong once in 2018 17:28:31 <TrueBrain> maybe it is not really an issue :) 17:28:53 <glx> yeah probably during the switch to git 17:31:58 <TrueBrain> can't believe over 500 people took the effort to leave a review .. 17:32:28 <spnda> 638 even 17:32:53 <TrueBrain> the word "over" allows for higher numbers, ye 17:36:11 <peter1138> Would an editorconfig help? 17:40:24 <frosch123> iirc the commit-checker checks for \r 17:40:48 <frosch123> but it's entirely possible that the git diff filters out the \r before the checker sees them :p 17:43:52 * andythenorth considers CRLF cargo in FIRS 17:46:53 <peter1138> Maybe it was missed if the commit-checker wasn't set up from the start. Not sure any more. 17:53:02 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master https://git.io/JYSGM 17:53:03 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators) 17:54:11 <snail_UES_> andythenorth: what’s CRLF? 17:55:02 <_dp_> CuRsed Line Feed 17:59:17 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 17:59:18 <peter1138> Hmm, possible tweaks... should zooming in/out a viewport affect already playing sounds. 17:59:29 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 18:02:40 <peter1138> And also, should tile-based noises be capped. 18:02:59 <peter1138> With 640x480 screens, the viewport covers a lot les. 18:03:00 <peter1138> +s 18:03:27 <peter1138> At 2560x1440, wind noises are a bit constant... 18:04:09 <peter1138> "Let's increase the number of mixer channels!" sounded like a great idea, but... 18:04:32 <peter1138> Hmm, it's 8. Maybe we never did increase it. 18:04:51 <peter1138> tron, 15 years ago. Nice. We didn't. 18:06:19 <nielsm> add a flag/priority to "ambient" sounds and only play them when the zoom of the viewport would cause it to have at X tiles in width if it covered the full screen 18:06:41 * andythenorth adds sawmill sound to every FIRS industry 18:07:02 <nielsm> basically causing a relationship between screen resolution and zoom to control ambiernt noises 18:07:05 <peter1138> Our zoom volume scaling is also a bit whacky. 18:13:39 <peter1138> But it's noticable that zooming out stays loud for a while until the sounds stop playing. 18:14:03 <peter1138> Hardly a huge issue though 18:17:20 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 18:17:46 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd 18:23:03 *** supermop_Home has joined #openttd 18:23:07 <supermop_Home> yo 18:40:15 <_dp_> hm, apparently setting snow coverage high enough breaks farms :p 18:41:00 <_dp_> and "enough" is like 50% most of the time 18:42:15 <_dp_> oh, even default 40 is 18:42:53 <_dp_> and it doesn't give a warning 18:43:21 <andythenorth> so 1st and 2nd class pax cargos then? 18:43:32 <andythenorth> frosch123 left rather quickly when that was suggested :) 18:43:36 <_dp_> presumably because it still thinks you can bulldoze the sea 18:47:43 <frosch123> _dp_: farms spawn 2 heightlevels below snow line 18:47:50 <_dp_> oh, it looks like it actually succeeds in funding farms on the sea level sometimes so it thinks it's ok 18:48:02 <_dp_> yeah and default 40% coverage easily generates snow line 2 18:51:10 <_dp_> mapgen is cheating :p https://i.imgur.com/GoSdnao.png 18:59:22 <_dp_> huh? https://i.imgur.com/4sEhtZt.png 19:02:44 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 19:05:30 *** jottyfan has quit IRC 19:07:11 <TrueBrain> @calc 1128382/60/24/365 19:07:11 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 2.146845509893455 19:07:41 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ghisvail opened pull request #8948: Honor default soundfont for FluidSynth on Debian https://git.io/JYSRe 19:13:57 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh approved pull request #8948: Fix: Honor default soundfont for FluidSynth on Debian https://git.io/JYSRj 19:16:30 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #8947: [Feature Request] Key binds, changing all of them (also, WASD movement) https://git.io/JYSUC 19:19:29 <FLHerne> _dp_: ...I thought that was 'fixed' after much acrimonious confusion 19:19:48 <_dp_> I think it went full circle :p 19:21:04 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 19:21:20 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl commented on issue #8947: [Feature Request] Key binds, changing all of them (also, WASD movement) https://git.io/JYSUC 19:21:55 *** jottyfan has quit IRC 19:24:17 <TrueBrain> "There are 694 clients, 481 IPv4 servers and 103 IPv6 servers in this list." 19:25:53 <FLHerne> what 19:28:19 *** glx_ has joined #openttd 19:28:19 *** glx is now known as Guest552 19:28:19 *** glx_ is now known as glx 19:29:38 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 19:30:11 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 19:34:27 <glx> hmm there's a bug in DorpsGek auto reply "... is requesting access to language isocode." and of course link points to isocode too 19:34:46 *** Guest552 has quit IRC 19:34:47 <glx> but it worked fine yesterday 19:35:13 <LordAro> glx: is that not correct? 19:35:31 <glx> https://github.com/orgs/OpenTTD/teams/isocode 19:35:41 <glx> hmm seems he renamed the issue 19:35:58 <LordAro> oh 19:36:29 <LordAro> pretty sure that's on them 19:37:16 <FLHerne> Speaking vaguely of teams, have you considered giving Wuzzy2 rights to OpenSFX ("BaseSet Keepers"?) ? 19:37:28 <FLHerne> They seem to be doing a lot to it 19:38:34 <michi_cc> TrueBrain: This seems like the best proof that Steam actually got us new players and not just "switchers" :P 19:38:47 <TrueBrain> michi_cc: indeed 19:38:55 <LordAro> FLHerne: i think they're done doing stuff to it though 19:39:14 <michi_cc> Is there anything to see in general infrastructure load/bandwidth? 19:39:24 <peter1138> What was it before? 19:39:49 <michi_cc> Less clients that servers, the vast majority of time. 19:40:17 <peter1138> Hmm, 1.4.4 server running for 220227 years... 19:40:22 <peter1138> Not sure I believe that. 19:41:50 <glx> guess https://github.com/OpenTTD/team/blob/master/.github/ISSUE_TEMPLATE/translator_isocode.md was used because we don't have hindi translation yet 19:42:19 *** Dwight has joined #openttd 19:42:56 <Dwight> Is it that all good suppliers will gradually suffer irreversible productivity loss? 19:43:30 <glx> some primary industries only decrease yes 19:44:27 <FLHerne> LordAro: No more so than anyone else :p 19:44:35 <glx> oil wells are in this case, but offshore platforms will appear 19:45:43 <FLHerne> LordAro: this was 2 days ago and is still open https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenSFX/pull/41 19:46:29 <FLHerne> Speaking for myself, being given commit access to NML fairly early (I'd only submitted a couple of patches at the time) was a motivating factor for spending more time on it 19:46:56 <FLHerne> It gives you a stake :p 19:49:32 <Dwight> hmm 19:49:48 <Dwight> what about good demands on large cities? 19:49:55 <FLHerne> Everything *but* oil wells should increase over time if transported% is high 19:50:08 <FLHerne> (assuming base industries, not grfs) 19:50:15 <Dwight> do those go away or will always be there as long as large building exists? 19:50:22 <Dwight> *buildings exist 19:50:29 <FLHerne> Always 19:50:35 <glx> as long as town is big enough it should not be an issue 19:50:41 <nielsm> towns generally grow as long as you have active transport in them 19:51:04 <nielsm> and it's mostly building in the center zones of large towns that accept goods 19:51:23 <nielsm> so a larger town has more buildings that accept goods 19:51:25 <FLHerne> You can use the info tool on buildings, it'll say something like '1/8 Goods' 19:51:34 <TrueBrain> FLHerne: giving rights doesn't help for getting an review, I am afraid :( 19:51:35 <FLHerne> You need 8/8 in the station catchment 19:51:40 <TrueBrain> it only helps if he was reviewing :( 19:51:59 <FLHerne> TrueBrain: Sure, but it's a psychological thing :p 19:52:04 <glx> (but he likes to open management issues) 19:53:44 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 19:53:48 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 19:53:52 <Dwight> when will those exhausted productions be gone and replaced by new ones? 19:55:59 <FLHerne> Which industries are you referring to? 19:56:05 <Dwight> food ones rn 19:56:08 <Dwight> the farms 19:56:12 <Dwight> I've exhausted one 19:56:20 <FLHerne> Oil wells are never replaced, they decline after 1970 or something until they're all gone 19:56:37 <FLHerne> Farms shouldn't decline in production if the transported % is reasonably high 19:56:48 <Dwight> well they did somehow 19:56:53 <FLHerne> about 70% or above IIRC 19:57:00 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 19:57:11 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 19:57:13 <Dwight> oh nvm 19:57:14 <Dwight> lol 19:57:17 <FLHerne> You can be unlucky if you start serving one with low production just before it was going to shut down anyway 19:57:23 <Dwight> that's kinda high( 19:57:25 <andythenorth> so cargo payment multiplier on vehicles? :) 19:58:32 <TrueBrain> michi_cc: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/337701432230805505/828357830544588860/unknown.png 19:58:36 <TrueBrain> still clearly more activity :P 19:58:53 <TrueBrain> (all HTTP traffic except for BaNaNaS downloads) 19:59:08 <Dwight> bruh 19:59:10 <TrueBrain> 9 500 errors served in that time :D 19:59:19 <Dwight> the production just went down by 50% each again 19:59:27 <FLHerne> https://wiki.openttd.org/en/Manual/Game%20Mechanics/#smooth-economy-rules 19:59:50 <FLHerne> (quick check: 'Smooth Economy' is the default now, right? I think the wiki is outdated there) 20:00:05 <TrueBrain> right, network traffic per client seems to be around 100 bytes/sec on a server 20:00:12 <LordAro> TrueBrain: what caused the 500s? 20:00:15 <TrueBrain> the reddit server with 20 clients is only 500 bytes/sec in total, which is a bit surprising 20:00:54 <glx> highly depends on the number of client actions I guess 20:00:56 <TrueBrain> LordAro: haven't checked it out in detail, but most often this is when a server rolls over into a new one 20:01:03 <TrueBrain> and ALB was just too early/late to pick it up 20:01:22 <TrueBrain> glx: yup, but it seems that the reddit server has more idling people than some of the others I checked out :D 20:01:33 <TrueBrain> but, on average, 100 bytes/sec per connected client, it seems 20:01:45 <TrueBrain> which is an hilarious low number :P 20:01:58 <Dwight> will it go up again if I ensure demand? 20:02:00 <FLHerne> Dwight: so the thresholds are 60% for production to increase on average, and 80% for production to increase nearly always 20:02:06 <FLHerne> Yes 20:02:07 <Dwight> oh k 20:02:17 <FLHerne> (unless it closes first) 20:02:35 <FLHerne> Having a train always waiting is often a good idea 20:02:38 <glx> once closure is announced it can't be prevented 20:02:42 <FLHerne> (wait for full load) 20:02:45 <TrueBrain> hmm .. assuming my measurement is correct, if we would do our own relay network, the cost would be (and this is a rough estimate): 20:03:04 <TrueBrain> @calc 100 * 1000 * 60 * 60 * 24 * 30 / 1024 / 1024 / 1024 * 0.015 20:03:04 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 3.6209821701049805 20:03:16 <TrueBrain> 4 dollar per month (with 1000 clients, at a cost of 0.015 dollar per GB) 20:04:31 <_dp_> TrueBrain, have you checked citymania? I'd expect quite a bit more there xD 20:04:44 <FLHerne> That sounds eminently reasonable :p 20:04:50 <TrueBrain> pretty sure you can give better estimates of that 20:05:32 <glx> TrueBrain: oh you changed game ;) 20:05:42 <glx> (steam notifications) 20:05:48 <TrueBrain> :P 20:06:36 <TrueBrain> _dp_: nope, also 100 bytes per connected client 20:06:43 <TrueBrain> well, my estimate is when 1 user is in 1 server, so it is more 20:06:57 <TrueBrain> I forgot to calculate that into it, oops 20:06:58 <_dp_> hm, interesting 20:07:18 <TrueBrain> 5 players on average, seems a high-value 20:07:24 <_dp_> well, I guess it's pointless anyway since it's not going to be relaying citymania's xD 20:07:41 <TrueBrain> that would mean it is 20 dollar per month, I would guess 20:07:45 <TrueBrain> still very rough estimates 20:07:49 <_dp_> and vanilla can't quite spam commands as much thanks to a handicapped gs :p 20:08:21 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 20:08:48 <TrueBrain> and that would be with a full cloak relay network (so nobody ever sees anyones real IP) 20:09:01 <TrueBrain> and by using AWS POP network 20:09:15 <TrueBrain> we could also relay it all in 1 place, which is a lot cheaper 20:09:23 <TrueBrain> but that would suck for many players not close to that region :D 20:09:52 <peter1138> Hmm, 8192 samples is quite noticable when changing volume :D 20:10:20 <TrueBrain> I expected this to be a lot more expensive 20:11:18 <peter1138> What's this for? 20:11:47 <TrueBrain> _dp_: it would be nice if you can check how much bandwidth your server has, just to cross-validate my finding 20:12:38 <_dp_> is there an easy way to check process bandwidth? 20:12:44 <TrueBrain> windows / linux? 20:12:47 <_dp_> linux ofc 20:12:56 <TrueBrain> no need to be offensive towards windows :P 20:13:01 <TrueBrain> the tool "iptraf" I find most useful 20:16:01 <milek7> if you have iptables rule it counts bytes also 20:16:05 <FLHerne> TrueBrain: The current number of multiplayers is not a representative example 20:16:19 <TrueBrain> that is why I doubled the current number 20:17:26 <FLHerne> Oh, I meant the opposite :p 20:17:32 <FLHerne> At least to date it's a worst- (best-?) case scenario in the last couple of days 20:17:37 <TrueBrain> I know :) But always overestimate, never underestimate :) 20:18:34 <peter1138> Then add in transfering a 4096x4096 map with tons of trees on it... 20:20:01 <TrueBrain> owh, AWS has a single line of text to indicate their table following is just the additional fee .. lol 20:20:06 <TrueBrain> okay, that is a bit more expensive 20:20:20 <TrueBrain> like a lot more :( 20:20:23 <TrueBrain> @calc 100 * 1000 * 60 * 60 * 24 * 30 / 1024 / 1024 / 1024 * 0.105 20:20:23 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 25.346875190734863 20:20:28 <TrueBrain> huh? Hmm 20:20:39 <TrueBrain> owh, yes, times 5 20:20:41 <TrueBrain> @calc 100 * 1000 * 60 * 60 * 24 * 30 / 1024 / 1024 / 1024 * 0.105 * 5 20:20:42 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 126.73437595367432 20:21:11 <TrueBrain> AWS pricing is so annoying to read correctly :P 20:21:57 <peter1138> Shame you can't just let Steam handle it ;( 20:22:10 <TrueBrain> I can, but someone told me he is a hard -2 on that :P 20:22:18 <peter1138> :( 20:23:01 <FLHerne> What happened to that 'free data' OVH instance you were planning to use for zBase? 20:23:06 <FLHerne> policy change? 20:23:10 <FLHerne> burned to the ground? 20:23:11 <TrueBrain> it is running for months now 20:23:22 <TrueBrain> assumptions are dangerous ;) 20:23:43 <milek7> STUN would work for most clients probably 20:23:49 <FLHerne> Why doesn't that help for this purpose, then? 20:24:09 <TrueBrain> those VPSes are cache mirrors 20:24:15 <TrueBrain> they only cache-proxy data, basically 20:24:19 <TrueBrain> to offload our bandwidth bill 20:24:41 <TrueBrain> one of the things you have to be careful with if you do relaying yourself, that you cannot relay someone from Singapore to France and back 20:24:45 <TrueBrain> his latency would be insane :P 20:24:52 <FLHerne> Well, not the specific instance, but the "buy one cheap-ish VPS and get unlimited data transfer" 20:24:56 <TrueBrain> so either we have to set up our own POP network, or we have to borrow a cloud 20:25:04 <FLHerne> Oh, I see, so you'd need lots 20:25:11 <TrueBrain> not lost, just enough 20:25:14 <TrueBrain> and that is a lot to maintain 20:25:17 <TrueBrain> which I am not going to :D 20:25:26 <TrueBrain> been there, done that, got the t-shirt :P 20:25:34 <TrueBrain> basically, the extra fee AWS charges is well worth it :D 20:25:38 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 20:25:49 <FLHerne> That said, is OTTD multiplayer *really* that latency-sensitive? 20:25:59 <TrueBrain> (just as an example, if I work just over an hour I made more money than the AWS bill would be :P) 20:26:07 <peter1138> FLHerne, it's noticable, yes. 20:26:08 <FLHerne> The timeout is many seconds, no network is that slow :p 20:26:08 <TrueBrain> you have to think latencies of 300+ms 20:26:15 <milek7> I should finish my pubkey and connection encryption PR sometime.. 20:26:16 <TrueBrain> you will notice that like crazy 20:26:20 <nielsm> btw regarding HTTP library for doing downloads and stuff, obviously curl is an option everywhere, but I wonder if it would make sense to use WinHTTP on windows to avoid an extra dependency 20:26:44 <FLHerne> peter1138: Only if you're building around someone else, and now everyone plays on 4k^2 maps so they don't have to :p 20:26:44 <TrueBrain> well, we won't notice it, as in the EU everything will be fine 20:26:47 <TrueBrain> US will .. somewhat notice it 20:26:52 <TrueBrain> but APAC ... 20:26:54 <TrueBrain> Australia? 20:26:56 <TrueBrain> they would hate us :P 20:27:01 <peter1138> FLHerne, you notice it with any building. 20:27:12 <TrueBrain> you click rail, over 300ms later it is placed 20:27:14 <TrueBrain> that is ... not fun :D 20:27:23 <peter1138> OpenTTD doesn't predict that something could happen. 20:27:43 <TrueBrain> we are not Factorio (yet?) 20:27:59 <peter1138> You'd need an arbitrary undo buffer :D 20:28:14 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 20:28:40 <peter1138> -2 is a lot of votes against something. A single -1 would've been sufficient. 20:29:05 <TrueBrain> not used to gerrit patch voting system? :) 20:29:23 <peter1138> Never heard of it. 20:29:33 <TrueBrain> gerrit is a rather popular alternative git workflow 20:29:36 <TrueBrain> really good system, honestly 20:29:46 <TrueBrain> just totally different from GitLab / GitHub / BitBucket :P 20:29:55 <TrueBrain> anyway, -1 means: you did something wrong, but you can fix it 20:30:03 <TrueBrain> -2 means: I have a problem with the idea behind this, so no 20:30:44 <peter1138> So, I guess we can dash all those wishes for Workshop and Rich Presence support. NIce. 20:30:51 <TrueBrain> huh? 20:30:57 <TrueBrain> what made you jump to that conclusion? 20:31:01 <Dwight> feels like playing factorio and seeing a helpless mess of a railroad lmao 20:31:20 <Dwight> *belts 20:31:40 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd 20:31:44 <_dp_> I don't see how to group by process in iptraf 20:31:58 <TrueBrain> _dp_: just follow a single connection; should give enough info 20:32:05 <_dp_> and by connection I'm getting smth like 4000 bytes/sec which feels wrong 20:32:05 <TrueBrain> as all connections should about the same 20:32:14 <peter1138> Oh, I assumed the -2 was related to that. 20:32:22 <TrueBrain> peter1138: always good to ask first, what the -2 is about :D 20:32:30 <TrueBrain> but the -2 is for: allowing Steam clients to do something non-Steam cannot 20:32:42 <_dp_> but connections don't show map loading 20:32:53 <TrueBrain> _dp_: nah, but there is a day/night cycle anyway 20:33:04 <TrueBrain> so considering 1000 players online day/night is silly 20:33:21 <TrueBrain> so a map download should average out just fine 20:33:50 <peter1138> Damn, I accidentally just ate 2 portions of popcorn. As it 32g is a lot of popcorn. 20:33:53 <_dp_> well, day/night you can kinda estimate 20:34:06 <_dp_> but I've no idea how much is map traffict compared to the rest 20:34:07 <TrueBrain> _dp_: if you like, I would be interested in the bandwidth of a server over a full day 20:34:11 <TrueBrain> with the average players that were online 20:35:00 <_dp_> atm I don't quite have time to figure out how to do that unfortunately 20:35:08 <TrueBrain> peter1138: so basically, using the Steam relay network without having our own, is just .. many people will have a hard time with that, let me put it that way :) 20:35:28 <_dp_> well, I can discuss with da and mb just give you the access to the server if you're interested 20:35:36 <TrueBrain> _dp_: traffic is easy, just do "ifconfig" now and in 24hours :) 20:35:43 <TrueBrain> the amount of average players is the tricky part :P 20:35:58 <_dp_> but that includes website and god knows what else 20:36:07 <peter1138> michael blunck is involved? 20:36:08 *** Dwight has quit IRC 20:36:16 <_dp_> peter1138, mb 20:36:22 <TrueBrain> _dp_: fair enough :) 20:41:25 <TrueBrain> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/337701432230805505/828368611474276383/unknown.png <- orange is www.openttd.org, green is wiki.openttd.org 20:41:45 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has joined #openttd 20:43:10 <TrueBrain> who would have thought our wiki would be popular? :P 20:43:58 <TrueBrain> CPU wise, it is not noticeable that much more traffic is going on .. so happy I added the strong caching for the wiki :D (a page is rendered and cached till any edit to it happens .. which is a very rare event) 20:53:54 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 20:56:44 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 20:57:07 <milek7> I'm trying to exploit saveload code 20:57:08 <milek7> but eh, that might be too hard for my first attempt ;P 20:57:11 <TrueBrain> another round of: how many people have OpenTTD installed via Steam .. any takers? 20:58:36 <michi_cc> SteamSpy was in range last time, and it currently says 100000 to 200000, so 150000? 20:58:46 <TrueBrain> Lifetime free licenses (?) 162,062 20:58:47 <TrueBrain> :D 20:58:58 <TrueBrain> SteamSpy said that 2 days ago too btw :P 20:59:12 <peter1138> Hmm, suddenly cold. 20:59:20 <peter1138> Also piano annoying me :( 21:02:45 <TrueBrain> Recent avg daily active users 28,844 21:02:47 <TrueBrain> also a fun number 21:04:18 <TrueBrain> most players still played < 10 minutes, but the amount of players playing between 10-20 minutes is the same as those player more than 200 minutes 21:04:49 <TrueBrain> Average time played 1 hour 24 minutes 21:04:52 <TrueBrain> it is going up :P 21:05:03 <TrueBrain> okay, that are all the stats I have michi_cc :) I think .. :P 21:05:23 <TrueBrain> no, wait, I also have store page data 21:05:42 <TrueBrain> 1 million impressions on the cover image of the Store page 21:06:07 <TrueBrain> 1500 people read the Q&A Livestream announcement 21:10:59 <TrueBrain> I understand why some games release Steam only a lot more now :) 21:11:10 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 21:11:28 <michi_cc> And why Epic tries damn hard to get exclusive titles... 21:11:44 <TrueBrain> Yup .. 21:15:41 <andythenorth> this strikes again 21:15:47 <andythenorth> this is like the 3rd time in 2 days 21:15:47 <andythenorth> https://www.reddit.com/r/openttd/comments/mk15q5/question/ 21:15:59 <andythenorth> 'provide a solution andythenorth don't just point it out' 21:15:59 <andythenorth> :P 21:17:05 <supermop_Home> hardcode base vehicles to be refitable? 21:17:24 <andythenorth> I've been told - a long time ago - that won't be done and can't be done 21:17:30 <andythenorth> purity + savegame compat. 21:17:30 <supermop_Home> I think there should also be at least 1 hardcoded tram 21:17:38 <andythenorth> but what's past is past 21:17:45 <andythenorth> many things were said to not be possible 21:17:55 <supermop_Home> i mean i also believe that base game should be base game 21:18:07 <supermop_Home> but language evolves as it were 21:18:34 <supermop_Home> at some point might make sense to give in rather than be pedantic 21:18:38 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 21:18:53 <supermop_Home> fingertips still slightly numb 21:19:18 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] perezdidac commented on issue #8939: Object selection window button doesn't appear lowered after clicking on it https://git.io/JY1pm 21:21:45 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #8944: Fix #8935: [OSX] Crash when clicking 'Save' due to wrongly-threaded OS call. https://git.io/JYSPK 21:21:51 <andythenorth> michi_cc ^ 21:21:57 <andythenorth> (fixed) 21:22:36 <michi_cc> I guess 1.11.1 should not wait too long then. 21:24:25 <andythenorth> :) 21:24:47 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 21:27:35 <supermop_Home> hi snail_UES_ 21:28:25 <snail_UES_> supermop_Home: hey 21:30:37 *** Samu has quit IRC 21:30:49 <supermop_Home> fingertips are a little numb here 21:31:06 <supermop_Home> i got moderna 21:31:22 <supermop_Home> otherwise not too bad 21:31:25 <snail_UES_> I’m happy for you :) 21:31:44 <snail_UES_> yeah, there are always side effects. I felt dizzy and feverish the whole day after my shot 21:31:51 <snail_UES_> when did you have yours? earlier today? 21:32:29 <supermop_Home> yeah noon today 21:32:36 <supermop_Home> 2nd dose 5/2 21:33:00 <snail_UES_> wow, almost one month from now 21:33:16 <snail_UES_> but it’s good they already gave you the next appointment 21:33:23 <supermop_Home> yeah moderna is 28 days compared to 21 for pfizer 21:33:46 <supermop_Home> they actually wouldn't let you leave the site without setting it up 21:34:10 <snail_UES_> like, they’d ask you to sit down for like 15 mins? 21:34:17 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] perezdidac commented on pull request #8941: Fix: fix nullptr deletion in DeleteWindowById https://git.io/JYS13 21:34:41 <supermop_Home> yeah 21:35:06 <supermop_Home> and then they came around with an ipad to make the 2nd dose appt 21:35:12 <andythenorth> hmm time to start FIRS 5? 21:35:33 <supermop_Home> or FIRS 6 21:35:37 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] perezdidac commented on pull request #8941: Fix: fix nullptr deletion in DeleteWindowById https://git.io/JYS1B 21:35:38 * _dp_ already included mac fix in cmclient :p 21:36:08 <_dp_> don't ask me where is cmclient... xD 21:36:13 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Milek7 commented on pull request #8941: Fix: fix nullptr deletion in DeleteWindowById https://git.io/JYS1z 21:37:40 <andythenorth> supermop_Home I already started FIRS 6 21:38:42 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 21:39:12 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 21:40:32 *** jottyfan has quit IRC 21:40:40 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/bananas-server] perezdidac commented on pull request #43: Add: pass upload date to OpenTTD client https://git.io/JYSMU 21:43:55 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 21:44:25 <andythenorth> FIRS 99? 21:49:06 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #8941: Fix: fix nullptr deletion in DeleteWindowById https://git.io/JYSMQ 21:52:31 <snail_UES_> andythenorth: my set now officially supports FIRS 4. Time for you to release FIRS 5 :p 21:55:09 <andythenorth> \o/ 21:56:21 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 22:09:53 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 22:13:34 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 22:21:42 <michi_cc> _dp_: I'm just waiting for PR approval now for macOS. 22:22:41 <_dp_> well, yeah, but then you need 1.11.1 22:23:03 <_dp_> and cmclient is already out 22:23:13 <_dp_> since like 10 mins ago xD 22:24:10 <_dp_> though I guess it wouldn't take long for 1.11.1 all things considered xD 22:42:37 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7786: Add: Help and manuals window https://git.io/JeBQt 22:43:18 <nielsm> yep I think we're looking at a relatively fast 1.11.1 this year 22:43:27 <nielsm> so many ones 22:44:03 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] wlfbck opened issue #8949: Unable to abandon/quit https://git.io/JYS9b 22:44:56 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #8949: Unable to abandon/quit https://git.io/JYS9b 22:47:39 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] wlfbck commented on issue #8949: Unable to abandon/quit https://git.io/JYS9b 22:50:16 <nielsm> uh I'm tempted to post this reply, but it's probably too passive-aggressive 22:50:19 <nielsm> > Actually that's how the UI was designed in Transport Tycoon in 1994, imitating how Apple Macintosh menu bar (mouse-controlled) functioned since 1984. 22:51:05 <nielsm> or 22:51:36 <nielsm> > Out of tens of thousands of players you are the first I see to question this interface. 22:51:45 <nielsm> I probably should just go to bed 22:55:54 <_dp_> by far not the first one 22:56:10 <_dp_> a lot of players don't get the submenus 22:56:24 <_dp_> mb showing them on hover would help 22:57:54 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #8949: Unable to abandon/quit https://git.io/JYS9b 22:59:03 <nielsm> maybe somehow show a semi-transparent version of the menu on hover, yes, indicating that there is a menu but you need to do something more to use it 23:04:54 *** Zuu has quit IRC 23:05:36 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] wlfbck commented on issue #8949: Unable to abandon/quit https://git.io/JYS9b 23:11:44 <_dp_> nielsm, well, as you can clearly see a tooltip indicating there is more didn't help him in the slightest :p 23:13:31 <_dp_> you'll just get "impossible to click sub-items" report or smth xD 23:17:04 <_dp_> another solution would be to make it two-click and add an option to get "smart" choice back. 23:21:49 <nielsm> doubleclick for "smart" choice (two slow clicks would open then close the dropdown) 23:22:16 <_dp_> ctrl-click xDD 23:32:30 *** glx_ has joined #openttd 23:32:30 *** glx is now known as Guest565 23:32:30 *** glx_ is now known as glx 23:35:25 *** Rainy has joined #openttd 23:38:25 <Rainy> hey, I've been really dumb and got all my trains stuck in a junction, I want to find a way to 'teleport' all trains to a depot so I can fix everything I messed up, currently using version 1.10.3-2 23:38:56 *** Guest565 has quit IRC 23:42:30 <_dp_> there is no teleport, you'll have to carefully sort them out manually 23:42:51 <_dp_> or just click ignore and let them crash xd 23:43:06 <Rainy> I was about to say thats my plan B :p 23:43:41 <Rainy> thanks 23:44:07 <_dp_> it's kind of the same plan tbh 23:44:19 <_dp_> you do A until you mess up and it turns into B xD 23:48:59 *** nielsm has quit IRC 23:56:54 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 approved pull request #8944: Fix #8935: [OSX] Crash when clicking 'Save' due to wrongly-threaded OS call. https://git.io/JYSdo