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00:11:42 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Milek7 commented on pull request #9126: D3D11 video driver https://git.io/JsGwz 00:13:34 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Milek7 updated pull request #9126: D3D11 video driver https://git.io/J3vs3 00:25:49 *** nielsm has quit IRC 00:31:33 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 00:34:08 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 00:45:18 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Milek7 updated pull request #9126: D3D11 video driver https://git.io/J3vs3 00:54:36 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Milek7 updated pull request #9126: D3D11 video driver https://git.io/J3vs3 01:08:59 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Milek7 updated pull request #9126: D3D11 video driver https://git.io/J3vs3 01:53:45 <milek7> I'm interested if it would run on vista ;P 02:26:04 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 02:41:56 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 02:42:54 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 02:43:58 *** Gustavo6046_ has joined #openttd 02:45:43 *** debdog has joined #openttd 02:48:53 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 02:48:53 *** Gustavo6046_ is now known as Gustavo6046 02:49:04 *** D-HUND has quit IRC 03:01:07 *** glx has quit IRC 05:02:01 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 05:35:02 *** Flygon has quit IRC 05:35:25 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 05:36:35 *** Flygon has quit IRC 05:37:06 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 05:58:25 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 06:01:32 *** Flygon has quit IRC 06:01:55 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 06:29:36 *** Progman has joined #openttd 06:42:40 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 updated pull request #9235: Fix some of the warnings from LGTM https://git.io/J3jqC 06:42:43 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 updated pull request #9228: Change: Use gender-neutral pronouns https://git.io/J3NfJ 06:42:46 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 updated pull request #9266: Codechange: use std::string in network chat https://git.io/Jssu9 06:42:49 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 dismissed a review for pull request #9266: Codechange: use std::string in network chat https://git.io/JsG3A 07:26:12 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 07:42:41 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 07:43:12 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 07:44:19 <andythenorth> yo 07:55:10 <LordAro> o/ 08:01:40 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 08:02:11 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 08:15:16 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #9235: Fix some of the warnings from LGTM https://git.io/JsZHt 08:16:15 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 merged pull request #9235: Fix some of the warnings from LGTM https://git.io/J3jqC 08:16:25 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #9228: Change: Use gender-neutral pronouns https://git.io/JsZHZ 08:16:51 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 merged pull request #9228: Change: Use gender-neutral pronouns https://git.io/J3NfJ 08:17:14 <Rubidium> lets hope those did not conflict with #9266 like the previous ones did ;) 08:17:55 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #9266: Codechange: use std::string in network chat https://git.io/JsZHz 08:20:54 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 merged pull request #9266: Codechange: use std::string in network chat https://git.io/Jssu9 08:21:47 <Rubidium> LordAro: thanks for the reviews! Now I can rebase some more things for review... when I figured out #9267 08:23:39 <LordAro> :) 08:34:19 <peter1138> Urgh, I think I'll need to break this one down :( 08:41:17 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 08:42:40 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 08:43:11 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 08:49:48 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 08:50:19 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 09:35:55 <Rubidium> I'm trying to trace/figure out #9267, and I've got some eery feeling it has to do with a destructor getting called when it shouldn't. So I made a set with all the pointers of the object that's created, i.e. via all the given constructors, but in the destructor it still finds objects that it hasn't seen in the constructor. So, what other ways to construct an object are there? I've already have 09:36:01 <Rubidium> SQObjectPtr() {..}, SQObjectPtr(const SQObjectPtr &) {..}, SQObjectPtr(SQObjectPtr&&)=delete, any many constructors with other paramaters. But not of those constructors get called for that object that gets destructed, so am I still missing any of the default constructors? 09:36:23 <Rubidium> or is this rather a sign that a constructor has not been called when it should have been? 09:39:18 <nielsm> it sounds like an object not being properly constructed, but if it's a non-virtual destructor it could also be an invalid cast ending up calling a wrong destructor 09:50:52 <Rubidium> ofcourse... it's "just" a memmove ;( 09:51:09 <Rubidium> or realloc 09:54:40 <peter1138> Interesting for scaling. OpenGFX's "X" icon is 7x8 pixels at 1x zoom, but 20x20 pixels at 2x zoom. 10:10:06 *** Samu has joined #openttd 10:14:49 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 10:34:47 <andythenorth> peter1138 goes it redraw? 10:37:02 <LordAro> is there a penalty for loading speed when a train station is too small? 10:37:40 <nielsm> if the train is longer than the station yes 10:38:13 <LordAro> interesting 10:38:15 <LordAro> TIL 10:38:35 <LordAro> just watched a train spend ages filling up 10:41:50 <nielsm> thinking about it, if onlt 10:42:14 <nielsm> if only cars without cargo capacity stick out (e.g. trailing locos) then maybe there shouldn't be a penalty 10:50:49 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 commented on issue #9267: Heap use after free in Squirrel delayed memory deallocation when AI deallocated https://git.io/JsszD 11:03:32 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Milek7 updated pull request #9126: D3D11 video driver https://git.io/J3vs3 11:15:26 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Milek7 opened issue #9269: Assertion failed when trying to change refresh rate. https://git.io/JsnC9 11:22:43 <TrueBrain> https://steamcommunity.com/app/1536610/discussions/0/5625537320588066619/ <- we need presets :P 11:24:46 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Milek7 updated pull request #9126: D3D11 video driver https://git.io/J3vs3 11:44:27 <peter1138> Hmm 11:54:16 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Milek7 updated pull request #9126: D3D11 video driver https://git.io/J3vs3 12:12:23 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 12:19:41 <_dp_> nielsm, it's fine as it is, adding capacity into the mix would only complicate it for no good reason 12:49:20 <frosch123> https://esolangs.org/wiki/Conveyer <- someone played too much factorio 12:49:33 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/team] frosch123 commented on issue #216: [sv_SE] Translator access request https://git.io/JsGO4 12:50:21 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 13:02:12 *** glx has joined #openttd 13:02:12 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 13:02:49 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/DorpsGek] frosch123 opened pull request #50: Render http://... and https:// as <a> in the weblogs. https://git.io/Jsni1 13:11:13 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Milek7 updated pull request #9126: D3D11 video driver https://git.io/J3vs3 13:32:54 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Milek7 updated pull request #9126: D3D11 video driver https://git.io/J3vs3 13:52:44 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 opened pull request #9270: Fix #9269, f6d5c01: Skip invalid windows when checking z-priority https://git.io/JsnQi 14:07:33 <frosch123> huh, what window has WC_INVALID as class? 14:07:52 <glx> dropdown after selection 14:09:08 <glx> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/fab120ee831ff1cdf3d5560b6b87288b07c52084/src/widgets/dropdown.cpp#L191 14:12:14 <frosch123> hmm ~PickerWindowBase looks scary 14:13:08 <frosch123> and so is ProcessScheduledInvalidations 14:13:20 <frosch123> uff... 14:25:33 <glx> oh I linked the wrong this->window_class = WC_INVALID 14:26:31 <glx> it's https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/fab120ee831ff1cdf3d5560b6b87288b07c52084/src/widgets/dropdown.cpp#L307 14:33:08 <frosch123> i guess it's time for shared_ptr :) 14:34:43 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on pull request #9270: Fix #9269, f6d5c01: Skip invalid windows when checking z-priority https://git.io/Jsnpg 14:40:30 <glx> something like /* Dropdowns and Pickers use WC_INVALID to hide themselves until deletion. */ ? 14:41:18 <frosch123> sounds good 14:43:52 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #9270: Fix #9269, f6d5c01: Skip invalid windows when checking z-priority https://git.io/JsnQi 14:51:00 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 14:51:50 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 approved pull request #9270: Fix #9269, f6d5c01: Skip invalid windows when checking z-priority https://git.io/Jsceo 15:00:20 <glx> hmm I wonder if we could just replace the "this->window_class = WC_INVALID" with "*this->z_position = nullptr" 15:00:56 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd 15:02:40 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 15:04:05 <frosch123> i guess that works for the dropdown 15:04:14 <frosch123> i am not yet sure about PickerWindowBase 15:04:35 <frosch123> and the ProcessScheduledInvalidations definitely needs something else 15:05:08 <frosch123> ah, yeah for PickerWindowBase the z_position thingie also works 15:05:18 <frosch123> the point is that ResetObjectToPlace should not find it 15:05:35 <glx> yeah ProcessScheduledInvalidations break check feels wrong 15:06:01 <frosch123> now we actually free the window 15:06:16 <frosch123> so when OnInvalidateData does a delete, ProcessScheduledInvalidations has an invalid this 15:07:30 <glx> I guess address sanitizer should detect that 15:07:38 <frosch123> i guess ProcessScheduledInvalidations should also use a regular window iterator, and then recheck the iterator after each OnInvaildateData 15:09:34 <glx> hmm OnInvalidateData() could return a bool, true if window is deleted 15:10:13 <glx> then ProcessScheduledInvalidations can return directly 15:10:40 <frosch123> in that case you could also return true as request to delete it, so it does not have top call delete itself 15:11:18 <frosch123> grep gives a lot of results for "delete this" though :p 15:12:24 <glx> then UpdateWindows also needs to check ProcessScheduledInvalidations return because there's w->ProcessHighlightedInvalidations() following 15:12:58 <glx> another invalid read 15:13:28 <frosch123> or two loops 15:13:45 <frosch123> but yeah, UpdateWindows has no idea what calls may result in deleting themself :p 15:14:12 <frosch123> that was already wrong before 15:14:27 <frosch123> calling ProcessHighlightedInvalidations on an already destructed (but not yet freed) window 15:14:31 <glx> but before the deletion was delayed 15:14:35 <frosch123> but super non-obvious :p 15:14:59 <frosch123> doing stuff with destructed things is not much better 15:16:03 <frosch123> it iteates over the nested widgets, which are already freed 15:17:42 <frosch123> it's just super rare to have a window deleted by a schedules OnInvalidate while a widget is highlighted at the same time :p 15:17:51 <frosch123> the latter is only used by the tutorial GS, right? 15:18:07 <glx> I think yes 15:23:52 <glx> trying my idea (many changes to do) 15:33:51 <glx> so many self deleting windows 15:34:28 <frosch123> yep, most GUI frameworks have some kind of "deleteLater" :) 15:34:36 <frosch123> or, at least those i used 15:59:35 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] vituscze opened pull request #9271: Fix: Encountering two-way red signals could prune unrelated branches. https://git.io/JscsO 16:03:41 <glx> 46 files changed 16:04:43 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 16:22:07 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 opened pull request #9272: Codechange: [Network] Use std::string for client and company name https://git.io/JsccX 16:22:10 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 opened pull request #9273: Codechange: [Network] Use std::string for admin name and version https://git.io/Jscc1 16:37:44 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 16:41:16 *** Flygon has quit IRC 16:46:17 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 updated pull request #9272: Codechange: [Network] Use std::string for client and company name https://git.io/JsccX 16:59:29 *** luaduck has joined #openttd 17:12:29 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 dismissed a review for pull request #9270: Fixes for window handling changes from f6d5c01 https://git.io/Jsceo 17:12:32 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #9270: Fixes for window handling changes from f6d5c01 https://git.io/JsnQi 17:12:44 <glx> highjacked my PR :) 17:31:27 <glx> and I think it may not be the ideal solution, as I think I must also check if InvalidateData() self deletes the window 17:38:31 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #9270: Fixes for window handling changes from f6d5c01 https://git.io/JsnQi 17:39:34 <frosch123> poof, everything gone again 17:39:42 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #9270: Fixes for window handling changes from f6d5c01 https://git.io/JscKG 17:40:19 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 approved pull request #9270: Fixes for window handling changes from f6d5c01 https://git.io/JscK8 17:40:56 <glx> I think the best solution is to replace delete this with a call that hides them and put them in a to delete vector 17:42:46 <glx> if you want to read the old version I have a backup on https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/compare/master...glx22:invalid_reads 17:43:09 <frosch123> i read it. just finished, when you deleted it :p 17:43:44 <frosch123> but yes, a "DeleteLater" would make stuff more clear, and less fragile 17:44:00 <glx> I really think all the changes are half of the work to do, so clearly not the best way 18:09:54 <peter1138> Yes, I was thinking "delete later" when I was reading it. 18:43:28 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd 18:44:45 <LordAro> Window *later; delete later; 18:58:35 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 19:05:11 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 19:05:48 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master https://git.io/JscdU 19:05:49 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators) 19:06:03 <peter1138> Exactly that. 19:06:37 <frosch123> https://doc.qt.io/qt-5/qobject.html#deleteLater <- we need Xaroth to port ottd to qt 19:07:12 <FLHerne> Then all the grfs can be in QML, and everyone will be happy 19:08:53 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 merged pull request #9270: Fixes for window handling changes from f6d5c01 https://git.io/JsnQi 19:08:56 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 closed issue #9269: Assertion failed when trying to change refresh rate. https://git.io/JsnC9 19:27:25 *** tortal has joined #openttd 19:28:32 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 19:30:04 <tortal> Can someone explain non-stop regarding buses. I understand that non-stop will simply go exactly as speciied in the order. But will buses take detours without the non-stop ?... For instance if I have some bus stops that are very close to the route the bus is driving, will the bus make "smart" detours to collect passengers? Or must the the stops lie exactly on the road that the bus drives 19:30:04 <tortal> throught 19:30:37 <LordAro> the latter 19:30:45 <tortal> thx 19:30:59 <LordAro> (just means that buses/vehicles will stop at whatever station they happen to encounter) 19:32:57 <tortal> I did play TTD back in the days. Really amazed to see what has been done. Too bad the original authors don't make money. They aren't blizzard - squeezing every buck they can. From what I heard they still drop expansions to WoW... Either way back to openttd. I was thinking about the multiplayer part. Is it possible to play this game multiplayer with a friend now when we have buys lives? Like 19:32:57 <tortal> HOMM3/5. Can one login, do some work, then logout. do so asynchronously and still get some enjoyment of playing together ? 19:33:54 <LordAro> for sure 19:34:18 <LordAro> there's a "pause when no clients" setting somewhere, which if you use a dedicated server might be appropriate 19:34:23 <Xaroth> frosch123: I'm crazy but I'm not insane. 19:34:35 <Xaroth> If you want insane, talk to TrueBrain. 19:34:51 <tortal> oh great. I guess there is a linux server and all? just fire up a VPS and we are good to go ? 19:35:33 <LordAro> tortal: that's an option, for sure 19:37:02 <FLHerne> tortal: I'd recommend only ever using "non-stop" orders 19:37:15 <frosch123> Xaroth: but tb hates guis 19:37:25 <tortal> you mean to only use non-stop for everything ? I noticed it was default 19:37:27 <FLHerne> implicit stops cause all sorts of confusion, and don't reliably do anything much 19:38:14 <Xaroth> frosch123: The trick is to get tb to do something adjacent to the GUI stuff, he'll get frustrated enough that he wants to take it out back and strangle it..... and then suggest replacing it with QT. 19:39:02 <peter1138> QT can FOAD 19:49:54 <tortal> Is there any faster way to close windows rather than clicking the 'X' ? 19:50:06 <nielsm> Del on the keyboard closes everything 19:50:20 <nielsm> backspace also closes everything 19:51:03 <tortal> Awesome. An aawesome thing would also to allow closing windows bu using middle mouse button anyway on the window. That way one could be selective - don 19:51:10 <tortal> don't know if that is desirable tho 19:54:28 *** Feuersalamander is now known as grossing 19:55:24 <frosch123> there is also a right-mouse-button close 19:55:30 <frosch123> no idea whether it is on by default 19:55:30 <andythenorth> hmm 19:55:38 <frosch123> there are different options for the behavior of RMB 19:55:43 <andythenorth> been re-writing some grf automation for a week 19:55:55 <andythenorth> now have a _lot_ less code than I started with 20:04:51 <tortal> Sorry to pop in, but im curious: what does GRF stand for? I keep seeing it. 20:06:18 *** jellyknight has joined #openttd 20:06:18 *** gelignite has quit IRC 20:06:53 <tortal> also, can someone recommend a nice music pack. e has weird volume drops/spikes. Also some tracks feel like they are actually two tracks playing the same time. I do like the MIDI-touch. So maybe there are some good music packs 20:07:05 <tortal> The modern Motion has wierd..* 20:08:25 <frosch123> grf is a backronym for game resource file 20:08:29 <frosch123> it's our mod format 20:09:03 <frosch123> https://wiki.openttd.org/en/Manual/NewGRF <- more info 20:10:54 <tortal> thanks. The amount of resouces and community spirit is pretty amazing - very rare these days. I guess it is thanks to the open, flexible nature of openttd. Only the fact that what is being modded is a open source version itself makes it easier obviously. But without people to add content.. well.. But it takes two to tango i guess. Simply amazing. 20:11:40 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 20:12:11 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 20:12:42 <tortal> frosch123: found that setting - as you said, wasn't default 20:13:25 <tortal> Maybe a lot of the settings are trying to be true to the original or something. 20:13:39 <frosch123> no :p 20:13:44 <tortal> :> 20:13:53 <frosch123> there are just many opinions 20:14:17 <tortal> Well. then I think close on right click definitely should be default ^^ 20:14:21 <frosch123> smartphone players prefer different controls than pc players and so on 20:14:39 <frosch123> tortal: exactly, *you* think that :p 20:14:45 <tortal> oh riiite. they have it on app-version as well. isn't that funky. 20:14:49 <frosch123> but RMB is also usable in other ways 20:15:12 <frosch123> it can show additional tooltips in depot 20:15:18 <frosch123> it is used for scrolling 20:15:27 <frosch123> pretty sure there is more :p 20:15:42 <frosch123> in the end, it's just hotkeys 20:15:44 <peter1138> It should clearly close the main viewport... 20:15:47 <frosch123> some of them are configureable, some are not 20:16:09 <tortal> well well.. what i think matters the most didn't you know ;>. Also, you seem to agree since you have that setting hue hue 20:16:34 <frosch123> no, it actually annoyed me 20:20:52 <tortal> always smth isn't it. Either way, the app-version is identical, at least in the sense of being a client for opentdd gameplay? So either desktop and app can join the same server for a game 20:21:52 <peter1138> What "app-version"? 20:22:25 <tortal> iOS/android 20:22:53 <peter1138> Oh, nothing to do wtih us, no idea if it's compatible. 20:23:13 <tortal> oh oh. ok i got the impression there was an openttd for smartphone 20:23:26 <glx> there is, but not by us 20:23:54 <tortal> So someone forked openttd to relase it on smartphones 20:25:01 <LordAro> my understanding is that it's compatible 20:25:07 <LordAro> but obviously we have no control over it 20:26:13 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 20:26:33 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 20:27:06 <tortal> Well. why obviously. Sharing is caring. What about FOSS/copyleft spirit? How is openttd licensed btw. 20:28:51 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 20:29:01 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 20:29:32 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 20:30:07 <tortal> Im thinking that whoever that forked the project shouldn't be able to make money for starters.. also it ia pity that person isn't truly part of the community. I don't know for sure. But judging from your answers the projects seem.. disconnected. 20:30:29 <LordAro> i wasn't aware that they were making any money out of it 20:30:51 <LordAro> not that it matters anyway, GPL allows people to sell the stuff, as long as they still publish the sources 20:30:54 <LordAro> which they do 20:30:57 <tortal> I have idea. I only mean that copyleft would at least guarantee that. 20:31:16 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd 20:31:53 <tortal> or that.. Well. Basically someone could make a lot of money on everyones hard work. that would implictly include all the modd:ers hard work 20:32:17 <LordAro> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 20:32:30 <LordAro> the decision to go with GPL(v2) was made long ago, and not by any of us 20:32:39 <LordAro> and it can't be changed now 20:32:42 <tortal> wait until it is relased on oculus rift :D 20:33:55 <andythenorth_> GL to the person who wants the OpenTTD revenue 20:35:16 <Xaroth> all your $$$ are belong to me. 20:36:16 <peter1138> There's a Windows store version that is sold for money. 20:36:44 <tortal> well. there is money in a smartphone version for sure. also being gpl someone could just fork it today.. add some cosmetic wiii and waa.. as well as ads. Foerever all mods released will also be relased on the forked version.. with very little modification the maintainer would be able to "port" the udpates made to openttd as well 20:36:52 <tortal> peter1138 that is crazy :|.. bad bad. 20:37:02 <peter1138> Why? GPL doesn't prevent it. 20:37:11 <tortal> i mean. that isn't even another platform. 20:37:32 <Rubidium> you just request the source code, and then release it for free 20:37:33 <peter1138> It's out of date, and there's an official version instead which is free, so I imagine their revenue dried up. 20:37:36 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 20:38:22 <Rubidium> it's not that people make money with the Linux kernel, they make the money on supporting others using it 20:38:30 <tortal> well, it is possible to make a mod that is non-gpl. That is more restrictive. And that mod would be the base on which all other mods and (most) updates are amde 20:39:10 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 20:39:23 <Rubidium> except that the mod then would be in breach of GPL, thus illegal 20:39:31 <tortal> of course. that is a long shot to achieve some GNU-like license. But it would at least keep the modders work to the community only 20:39:52 <tortal> is it really a breach to release a non-gpl mod ? we aren't changin source code now 20:41:18 <LordAro> we're talking about different things here - we generally use 'mod' to describge modifications to the game itself 20:41:39 <LordAro> rather than 'grf'/'script'/'whatever' for ingame content 20:41:40 <Rubidium> if it's OpenTTD, then it's not a mod. It's derived work. If it's a NewGRF/AI/..., then that's completely separate from OpenTTD and just running on OpenTTD 20:41:51 <tortal> ah well. i was thinking about these "newGRF". I'm not sure hoe they are written 20:42:40 <tortal> yeah. refering to what people add as pluggable mods. not what people change in source 20:44:27 <tortal> I mean, taking it to the extreme, a lot of changes could be extrapolated to mods im guessing. It would basically be a mod "running all the time".. just for the sake of skipping the GPL 20:46:46 <Rubidium> that still doesn't remove GPL from the core game 20:47:17 <tortal> no. but it would stop windows store dude to make money on all extra game assets 20:50:01 <Rubidium> it wouldn't, if that person complies with GPL then anything would be possible. I could even charge a millions for just the game with the readme and license, and everything would be fine when I also provide the information on how to get the source code 20:52:30 <Rubidium> and for all the other things they might want to package, they have to comply with the respective licenses 20:53:52 *** Samu has quit IRC 20:56:44 <tortal> Yeah. well you are right. My thinking was a bit convoluted. I was basically thinking that one would change the game in such way that one could release "GNU-mods" to it. 21:02:05 <tortal> Is there any point to contribute to multiplayers online ? Like with hosting etc. 21:02:53 <tortal> 40 cores and 512gb ram servers just waiting to be used... :) 21:03:13 <glx> only one core is used for the game :) 21:03:38 <tortal> don't worry. just bragging with what i have ^^ 21:03:57 <frosch123> there are enough servers, which are "just hosted". but there are very few servers with "effort in the game setup" 21:04:08 <tortal> but either way. really like this openttd community. so any way one could contribute.. 21:04:33 <tortal> oh. well i hardly know how to play the game :) 21:06:20 <frosch123> https://servers.openttd.org/listing/1.11.2 <- 50% of servers are empty, 25% have one client, ... 21:08:03 <tortal> much like IRC then 21:09:53 <tortal> sorry. 40 threads of course. not cores .. 10 cores. can't lie. 21:10:36 <peter1138> quad threads these days? 21:11:09 <tortal> https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/75279/intel-xeon-processor-e5-2690-v2-25m-cache-3-00-ghz.html to be specific yeah 21:11:59 <tortal> don't know if it's considered "quad". 21:12:02 <peter1138> Oh, 2013. 21:12:06 <peter1138> It says 20 threads, so... 21:12:07 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 21:12:18 <tortal> hmm.. wait a second. 21:12:29 <peter1138> I'm sure you know what you have :p 21:12:53 <tortal> haha. this is one of the servers.. 21:12:54 <peter1138> Likely dual CPU as it's E5, so 2 x 10 cores. 21:13:06 <tortal> got a full room 21:13:12 <tortal> im not the hardware guy 21:13:14 <peter1138> But who cares, just a server. 21:13:28 <tortal> running a IPTV/ISP company 21:15:53 <tortal> ooh yeah. that one is apparently running two of those CPUs 21:16:56 <glx> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/compare/master...glx22:self_close <-- that's a lot of window self closing (most were safe I guess) 21:17:31 <tortal> yeah. who cares. most people desktops are more expensive than that server for instance 21:17:53 <Xaroth> with the current GPU prices that's not difficult :P 21:18:08 <glx> when GPUs are available 21:18:55 <peter1138> this->Close() would be nicer. 21:20:08 <peter1138> Like, there's probably no need to distinguish between self-closed and otherwise closed. 21:20:33 <tortal> _when_, indeed. one can't even built a desktop no matter how much one is willing to pay 21:20:37 <glx> yeah otherwise it's just a plain deletion 21:22:37 <peter1138> I'd say close all windows the same way, let the system delete. 21:23:10 <tortal> openttd seem to drink a lot GPU. I mean, i'm glad it has hardware aceleration. but why am i at 20-30% according to task manager? the GPY is maybe 4-5 yrs old. 21:23:14 <peter1138> And it could just be a window flag rather than another vector. 21:23:34 <peter1138> tortal, becuase it's a CPU-bound game. 21:24:00 <tortal> What does that mean? I don't get it. 21:24:33 <peter1138> On eating, GPU. What GPU? 21:25:00 <tortal> Radeon RX 580 21:25:16 <peter1138> Radeon tend to have very shit OpenGL drivers. 21:25:19 <peter1138> So could be that. 21:25:42 <glx> only visible windows are stored in _z_window, because now window deletion is immediate, so closed windows to be deleted need to be stored somewhere 21:26:55 <tortal> I can run xcom2, civ5, dark souls at seemingly full fps.openttd doesn't strike me as very GPU-intensive.. it is an isometric, pixelart game.. is there even 3D involced at all ? 21:28:06 <glx> try disabling full animation (mainly the water) 21:29:17 <glx> but really openttd doesn't use GPU intensively 21:29:46 <tortal> how do i change that setting ? i searched.. 21:29:47 <glx> everything is drawn by CPU then pushed to GPU 21:30:11 <tortal> yeah. openttd doesn't seem to do much geometry and floating-point calculations. which i alreays thought opengl was about 21:30:41 <glx> in game, it's somewhere in option drop menu 21:31:31 <tortal> oh yeah. dropped from 35% to 15-18% 21:31:48 <tortal> this is specific to the process tho 21:31:53 <glx> radeon shaders are not very good it seems :) 21:32:06 <tortal> oh yeah, blame the GPU 21:32:50 <tortal> it's fine for mining bitcoins. playing latest 3d games. but not openttd hell no 21:33:17 <Rubidium> yeah, we do ;) The more recent GPUs removed support for palettes, so the palette animations got much slower than they used to be on old hardware 21:33:31 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 21:33:36 <tortal> interesting 21:37:47 <tortal> baffled with people that do opengl. it's black magic imo 21:38:01 <Rubidium> after all, what game/program that people want to pay a lot of money for use palette animation nowadays? So just use the silicon for something people want to pay for, and implement palette animation in the video card driver 21:39:16 <glx> nvidia GTS450, GPU usage is less than 3% :) 21:40:46 <tortal> shttps://www.gpucheck.com/en-usd/compare/nvidia-geforce-gts-450-vs-amd-radeon-rx-580/intel-core-i7-8700k-3-70ghz-vs-intel-core-i7-8700k-3-70ghz/ultra/ultra/-vs- 21:41:06 <tortal> -s. weird. the gts450 is outperformed according to this comparison 21:41:43 <tortal> i guess they don't have the "OpenTTD"-benchmark 21:43:11 *** y2kboy23 has quit IRC 21:43:33 <tortal> what is the Silicone? You mean they could have the palette animation interface to make use of the silicone-thingie ? 21:43:38 <glx> I think AMD is better at directX than opengl 21:45:56 <glx> we received crash reports inside the ATI/AMD opengl driver 21:50:07 <tortal> meaning what ? that openttd has problems, or that amd has problems? 21:50:10 <peter1138> gts 450? yikes, 11 years old ... 21:50:29 <tortal> old is the new new 21:53:15 <tortal> openttd; what should be possible is to hold for a modifier, ALT for instance, then click and hold to move a window around. Just like default settings for ubuntus gnome 21:53:45 <peter1138> And what happens if you are playing OpenTTD on Ubuntu? 21:54:08 <tortal> well, i would still make sense :P 21:54:44 <peter1138> Which window would it move? OpenTTD, or a window within OpenTTD? 21:55:16 <tortal> the window within. but this modifier could be different and it would be possible to change it obviously.. 21:55:35 <peter1138> What about on Windows, where your average user has no expectation of how alt-drag behaves? 21:57:23 <peter1138> Hmm, my RGB LED strip is broken in such a way that it looks kinda cool. 21:57:35 <tortal> I don't know - I'm figuring that all interaction within a game is specific to the game/application. Shouldn't neccessarily anbd generally coincide with the OS behavior either way. 21:58:09 <glx> many new players already have issues with the interactions :) 21:58:10 <tortal> of course, a game involving windopws is different. but one can't think of everything. then one would need to take tiling managers as well 21:58:18 <tortal> in to account* 21:58:52 <tortal> hehe, nah not issues. i'm just really happy i found that right-click-to-close option 21:59:02 *** Progman has quit IRC 21:59:51 <glx> keep press for dropdown is one of the common issues 22:00:22 <glx> and we use it everywhere in the main toolbar :) 22:00:58 <_dp_> how often do you even move windows in openttd for it to require a hotkey? 22:01:59 <tortal> glx: I found it pretty instantly. Don't remember if is muscle memory from the original but no issues here... 22:02:21 <glx> but you played the original version ;) 22:02:22 <_dp_> alt is much better be used as building modifier 22:04:02 <tortal> is it possible to freely set resolution ? I'm guessing most play the game windowed. I don't see the option in normal settings 22:06:38 <tortal> Also, my eye sight isn't the best. so scaling up certain parts would be great. Like if it were possible to have fonts somewhere between double and quaduple 22:06:46 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 opened pull request #9274: Fix f6d5c01: Delay deletion for self closing windows https://git.io/JsCsA 22:07:06 <glx> you can resize the window ;) 22:07:17 <tortal> glx: awesome :P 22:07:29 <tortal> didn't think *outside* the box 22:08:26 <glx> for fonts, you can set them, and their size, in the config file 22:08:48 <peter1138> I have a patch for arbitrary scaling but it's majorly incomplete. 22:09:22 <tortal> that would be awesome peter1138 22:09:29 <glx> we really miss a font selection GUI, but UI is a pain in openttd :) 22:09:55 <tortal> haha yeah it is. most things are actually 22:09:59 <glx> and worse in font case as it must work on all platforms 22:11:38 <glx> I remember there was a patch somewhere for windows 22:12:16 <tortal> I could fire up a x server and run it from WSL (window subsystem for linux) 22:12:33 <glx> yes that works 22:12:59 <tortal> might not get the hardware acceleration.. not sure. but ryzen 6-core should manage 22:13:00 <glx> and it will be easier in next WSL version 22:13:28 <tortal> why is that 22:13:47 <Xaroth> Upgrades :D 22:14:27 <tortal> that much i also figured :>. just curious about specifically which upgrade would benefit openttd ^^ 22:15:58 <tortal> btw, is there a way to quickly clone a vehicle that im looking at - with orders and all 22:16:08 <Xaroth> clone button in depot 22:16:11 <Xaroth> click train you're looking at 22:16:24 <Xaroth> hold ctrl to make them share orders, otherwise it just copies orders. 22:16:51 <tortal> thx. got busses but i guess that will do. I was hoping there were a way to do it on a bus on the road 22:18:30 <glx> https://devblogs.microsoft.com/commandline/the-initial-preview-of-gui-app-support-is-now-available-for-the-windows-subsystem-for-linux-2/ <-- that's the most wanted WSL2 feature ;) 22:18:41 <peter1138> You can only build from a depot, so there's a clone button there. You can ctrl-click on a bus in the viewport. 22:18:44 <glx> and that's why I said it will be easier 22:20:11 <tortal> OH. ok. stupid me i only assumed the clone button would clone some bus already in the deopt :| 22:20:22 <Xaroth> qit can 22:20:30 <Xaroth> but.. also ones not in the depot 22:20:41 <glx> it clones whatever you are clicking after the button 22:20:56 <peter1138> I wanna clone a UFO. 22:20:56 *** nielsm has quit IRC 22:21:22 <tortal> yes. im getting too much help here.. when playing tihs game as 15 yr old one didn't have irc to help one out. same goes with larry, polic quest, and all other crazy games 22:21:53 <glx> many features were absent too ;) 22:22:23 <tortal> i guess. SO COOL this game. OpenTTD is so awesome 22:25:00 <tortal> "CoronaAI".. the pandemic had its perks as well i guess 22:25:52 <frosch123> someone wrote that while in isolation due to treatment 22:28:05 <tortal> "will try to spread [...] to all cities, I just uses buses." - Isn't that enigmatic 22:30:51 <FLHerne> tortal: I bet there was a TTD IRC channel then too 22:31:22 <glx> or a BBS 22:31:22 <tortal> peter1138: I'm guessing that means there is a scifi mod. Which is actually pretty cool. Reminds me of alpha centauri, the game. I'm guessing also that there is a nice mod which simply adds transportation vehicles and crafts _after_ the normal timelime in which new stuff is added in-game ? 22:32:14 <glx> no UFO are in base game 22:32:20 <glx> they are disasters 22:32:42 <tortal> ah shit. well ok . not "UFO" the strict definition then. but flying saucers and crap. 22:34:12 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #9274: Fix f6d5c01: Delay deletion for self closing windows https://git.io/JsCsA 22:35:23 <tortal> Problem is that few had Internet connection back then. I remember that general game information was scarce and traveled mouth-to-mouth 22:35:45 <tortal> Magazines... One would actually pay to get information on coming releasses 22:42:04 <tortal> Back to the sounds. First of all, OpenMSX is great. Gotta love that nostalgia.. Secondly, i really understand why the "NoSound" sound pack is default. Switching on sound effects was horrible. 22:47:12 <tortal> Ooh, just discovered the tab button...Also, extra thanks to Freddan thad made the Sweden Scenario. Moreover, I'm definitely adding this irc server and channel to znc. i can come and harass you anytime now 22:48:13 <glx> ah the fast forward shortcut 22:49:42 <tortal> YEs! First i was annoyed about the pause button. That is the classic pause button for baldurs gate, FTL... etc. But didn't dare to mention it. I figured there would be some very convincing argument against it. But found at least the tab button which was a nice surprise 22:49:52 <tortal> space * 22:50:17 <glx> pause is on F1 too 22:50:48 <tortal> Cool. The tab button even works while moving the map which is a nice touch 22:50:49 <glx> basically function keys should match the main toolbar IIRC 22:53:41 <tortal> 250mb memory usage now. I'm *pretty* sure the original didn't take that much :P 22:53:58 <glx> what's the map size ? 22:54:14 <tortal> How does one check 22:54:15 <michi_cc> Also, a lot of that will be the 4x zoomed sprites. 22:54:29 <tortal> It was the sweden scenario 22:55:07 <tortal> 4x zoomed sprites? you mean the scaling because of the resolution ? 22:56:15 <tortal> (whaddaya know, openttd has its own console and everything!) 22:56:36 <glx> oh you found the ` key 22:57:30 <tortal> now i did. I found it in the drop down 22:58:41 <tortal> gotta love the 'x' hotkey 22:59:36 <tortal> glx: 1024*2048 map size 22:59:55 <glx> quite big :) 23:03:16 <glx> map itself is ~25MB 23:07:42 <tortal> about 128 bytes per map pizel :D 23:08:07 <glx> 12 bytes per tile ;) 23:08:33 <tortal> well. it is cheap i guess 23:08:44 <tortal> doesn't even make sense 23:12:49 <tortal> so that thing for VI that only existed in the linux version - does it come in the vanilla openttd ? 23:15:02 <tortal> peter1138, glx ? 23:18:25 <FLHerne> tortal: "VI" ? 23:19:19 <FLHerne> I don't think upstream OTTD has any platform-specific features 23:19:58 <FLHerne> (well, user-visible ones -- there are various renderers etc) 23:22:35 <tortal> Visual impairment 23:23:38 <tortal> like, visual aids of different kinds. Got the impression earlier that there was something in the linux version that the windows version lacked 23:24:37 <tortal> It is difficult for me to see small text and icons etc 23:24:51 *** jellyknight has quit IRC 23:25:05 <FLHerne> You can set 'interface size' to double or quad in Game Options 23:25:58 <FLHerne> 'font size' ditto 23:26:09 <tortal> Thanks, yes i found those settings. We were discusing more fine grained options. Like setting a a custom scaling for instance. The quaduple fills the whole screen basically 23:26:22 <frosch123> https://wiki.openttd.org/en/Archive/Community/FAQ%20troubleshooting#my-user-interface-is-too-small-to-read-my-font-is-unreadable-or-faulty 23:26:56 <tortal> that's cool. will try it 23:44:11 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 23:50:58 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 23:53:17 <tortal> oh there we go! After some fiddling... good to know - maybe should be in the wiki more clearly as well - it says one must specify font in order to change size. In the settings it is blank on which font to pick. Basically one is forced to choose a font. So I had to google the M$ font reference way. (e.g. MSREF1 is one) - then change size. Also, max size is 72. (i.e. it changes it to 72 for 23:53:17 <tortal> any value > 72) 23:54:21 <tortal> funky: https://imgur.com/a/pOd1ukj 23:55:32 <tortal> Nevermind. it actually says in the wiki pretty clearly. i just missed it ^^ 23:56:14 <tortal> Not easy to read stuff on the Internet when you see 10 rows of text a time :p