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00:39:50 *** Progman has quit IRC 00:53:15 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 01:13:29 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd 01:50:41 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 02:30:35 *** glx has quit IRC 02:44:48 *** tokai has joined #openttd 02:44:48 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 02:46:44 *** D-HUND has joined #openttd 02:50:06 *** debdog has quit IRC 02:51:51 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 02:59:27 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 03:50:01 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 03:50:01 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 03:56:56 *** tokai has quit IRC 05:50:05 *** tokai has joined #openttd 05:50:05 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 05:56:59 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 07:17:39 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 07:22:56 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 07:32:17 *** Progman has joined #openttd 07:33:54 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 07:33:54 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 07:40:49 *** tokai has quit IRC 07:41:10 *** Donk has joined #openttd 07:57:02 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 07:57:15 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 08:01:48 *** Donk has quit IRC 08:41:19 <TrueBrain> "this=0x8" <- never a good sign, right? 08:55:58 <Rubidium> it rarely ever is, so an earlier nullptr check's missing I guess 08:57:58 <TrueBrain> r/wooosh? :D 08:58:28 <TrueBrain> that sweet moment you remove 20 includes, and it still compiles! 09:02:34 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 09:06:43 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #9502: Fix #9501: [Network] crash when more than one game-info query was pen… https://git.io/JEvyo 09:07:40 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #9501: [Crash]: Crashes when Multiplayer Opened https://git.io/J0hmu 09:08:03 <TrueBrain> now while doing this, I finally found a way to reproduce another bug we are having ... lets see what that is about .. 09:08:16 <_dp_> there are some (base*)8 in settings.h ... whatever those were supposed to mean 09:11:40 <andythenorth> yo 09:12:44 <LordAro> TrueBrain: nice :) 09:16:49 <TrueBrain> error: conflicting declaration ‘auto item’ 09:16:53 <TrueBrain> yet another impressive error :D 09:22:34 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/team] CzechRepublic98 opened issue #243: [cs_CZ] Translator access request https://git.io/JEv5e 09:29:50 *** tokai has joined #openttd 09:29:50 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 09:33:27 <TrueBrain> okay, so if the last joined server no longer exists on the GC, you have the network list selected, and you hit Search Internet, it crashes 09:33:30 <TrueBrain> well, that was hiding 09:33:54 <TrueBrain> owh, and you have NOT the last joined selected 09:36:28 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #9503: Fix: [Network] crash when last-joined server that is no longer available https://git.io/JEvNS 09:36:39 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 09:36:58 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: maybe you have some ideas how we can cleanly solve that a "full server" is not allowing game-info queries? 09:37:22 <TrueBrain> AcceptConnection handles this logic, but as such incoming connection will never use a client-slot, it feels a bit weird to deny game-info queries for that reason 09:38:18 <TrueBrain> in other news: yesterday there were more game-sessions over direct-IPv4 than over TURN :P 09:38:49 <TrueBrain> an average TURN session is ~1 hour 09:38:50 <LordAro> \o/ 09:39:26 <TrueBrain> and despite some servers having direct-IPv4 available, in 16 cases yesterday the connection from a client failed 09:39:52 <Tru2021-08-21T10:20:02 <TrueBrain> 9502 gives more options to handle these situations, I like that :) 10:59:43 *** tokai has joined #openttd 10:59:43 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 11:06:29 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 11:21:01 <andythenorth> oof 11:21:06 * andythenorth playing solitaire 11:39:20 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #9502: Fix #9501: [Network] crash when more than one game-info query was pen… https://git.io/JEfR7 12:08:40 *** glx has joined #openttd 12:08:40 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 12:15:27 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/team] glx22 commented on issue #243: [cs_CZ] Translator access request https://git.io/JEv5e 12:33:52 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 12:36:05 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 12:52:16 <andythenorth> hmm 12:52:19 <andythenorth> still solitaire 12:52:21 <andythenorth> why? 12:52:29 <andythenorth> what about lunch eh? 12:59:04 *** virtualrandomnumber has joined #openttd 12:59:33 *** virtualrandomnumber has quit IRC 12:59:52 <andythenorth> hmm 12:59:56 <andythenorth> was I doing FIRS? 13:00:50 <andythenorth> yes :) 13:01:04 <andythenorth> ok so I need to replicate FIRS production logic, but in GS 13:01:05 *** Progman has quit IRC 13:01:09 <andythenorth> for goal tracking 13:01:22 <andythenorth> looks like GSCargoMonitor can do that 13:02:45 * andythenorth needs to generate Squirrel from python 13:05:07 <andythenorth> this is not the droid I am looking for https://inventwithpython.com/pygame/chapter8.html 13:05:49 <glx> it's not too different from generating nml from python 13:07:43 * andythenorth wondered if there was a library, there doesn't seem to be 13:07:49 <andythenorth> so I'll use my html templater :) 13:07:54 <andythenorth> so inappropriate, but works 13:38:28 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #9502: Fix #9501: [Network] crash when more than one game-info query was pen… https://git.io/JEvyo 13:39:47 <peter1138> Lunch eh? 13:42:25 <andythenorth> I did 13:43:12 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 13:43:12 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 13:50:06 *** tokai has quit IRC 13:58:41 *** tokai has joined #openttd 13:58:41 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 14:01:35 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 14:05:36 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 14:05:51 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 14:05:51 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 14:06:48 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd 14:12:42 *** Gustavo6046_ has joined #openttd 14:12:46 *** tokai has quit IRC 14:14:55 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 14:14:55 *** Gustavo6046_ is now known as Gustavo6046 14:17:01 *** tokai has joined #openttd 14:17:01 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 14:23:56 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 14:29:05 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 14:29:05 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 14:36:14 *** tokai has quit IRC 14:36:40 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 15:06:35 *** tokai has joined #openttd 15:06:36 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 15:13:36 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 15:31:29 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 15:31:30 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 15:38:31 *** tokai has quit IRC 15:42:21 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 15:51:53 *** tokai has joined #openttd 15:51:53 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 15:59:10 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 16:03:29 *** tokai has quit IRC 16:16:23 *** Progman has joined #openttd 16:18:05 *** tokai has joined #openttd 16:18:06 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 16:46:21 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 18:06:55 *** Nicd has joined #openttd 18:08:49 <Nicd> hi, I upgraded to 1.11 on macOS and now everything is super tiny. according to this forum post I should set interface and font size to double, but in game options the interface size only lets me select "normal" or "auto-detect"? https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=88805 18:13:27 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 18:13:28 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 18:15:12 <michi_cc> Nicd: Not sure about the exact name, but there's also a setting to limit graphics zoom. This limits GUI zoom as well. 18:15:38 <michi_cc> It's the large settings tree, though. 18:16:08 <Nicd> maximum zoom in level? 18:16:43 <Nicd> that was it! 18:16:50 <Nicd> that enabled the double size interface in the options 18:16:54 <Nicd> thanks <3 18:17:46 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 18:20:21 *** tokai has quit IRC 18:33:10 *** Flygon has quit IRC 18:46:07 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 18:46:31 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 18:48:52 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master https://git.io/JEUoC 18:48:53 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators) 18:54:21 <TrueBrain> one happy customer! 18:54:49 *** gelignite has quit IRC 18:54:51 <TrueBrain> glx: nice catch in #9502, no clue why I derp'd there :D 19:09:05 *** Samu has joined #openttd 19:37:08 *** Nicd has left #openttd 19:40:25 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 19:40:37 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 19:47:43 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 19:48:22 <andythenorth> so should every newgrf feature be able to trigger a game event? 19:48:39 <andythenorth> vehicles, industries, industry tiles, objects, houses, rail/road/tram types? 20:04:50 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 20:06:00 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 20:09:05 *** jottyfan has quit IRC 20:41:10 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 20:44:23 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 20:48:13 <nielsm> okay how about adding a flag for AI scripts that lets them cheat. it would be a static flag in the info.nut and be displayed in the AI configuration in-game, and then allow the AI to access a few cheat functions (give itself money, maybe magic bulldozer, maybe override town rating). one use would be those "town traffic" etc things... 20:50:14 *** Tirili has joined #openttd 20:51:39 <andythenorth> GS can do it? :) 20:51:58 <nielsm> then you need a GS that does it 20:52:17 <nielsm> and not use any other GS 20:54:07 *** Samu has quit IRC 20:55:01 * andythenorth forgot 20:55:08 <andythenorth> shall we make a GS merger tool? 20:55:11 <andythenorth> that merges them all 20:55:20 <andythenorth> I think they could be written to do it 20:55:37 <andythenorth> have each sub GS declare a main loop function that can be called 20:55:46 <andythenorth> then call those from a parent main loop 20:55:55 <andythenorth> so each GS acts more like a module 20:56:17 <andythenorth> if they were each encapsulated in a directory, merging would be plausible 20:56:29 <nielsm> the thing is that a lot of features for GS are designed around having complete control 20:56:44 <nielsm> what if you load two GS that attempt to control town growth? which one "wins"? 20:58:26 <nielsm> or one that makes a goal for the player to build somewhere and will penalise them if they don't, and another that makes a rule that players are not allowed to build in that area and penalizes them for building there 20:59:47 <nielsm> it's going to be even more of a support nightmare with GS authors having to battle it out whose fault it is, with the core game being the third participant for allowing the situation to happen in the first place 21:02:04 <andythenorth> set the load order 21:02:13 <andythenorth> I _know_ it has edge cases 21:02:14 <andythenorth> but eh :) 21:02:21 <nielsm> no it doesn't even have to do with load order 21:02:29 <andythenorth> eh? 21:02:35 <nielsm> it's two gods pulling the rope in each their own direction 21:02:36 <andythenorth> whoever runs last in main loop will win 21:02:48 <andythenorth> anyway I have authored a FIRS GS 21:03:00 <andythenorth> all it does is build certain industries in town, because grf can't 21:03:12 <andythenorth> but that means no other GS for FIRS players 21:03:23 <andythenorth> so I probably kill all other GS based on FIRS hegemony 21:03:54 <andythenorth> or I merge the other GS into it :P 21:04:50 <nielsm> I've read some bad stories about "pulling in each their own direction" mods with one thing known as Brutal Doom, a mod/sourceport for original Doom, that changes around a lot of things 21:06:25 <nielsm> which causes lots of other maps/mods for original doom to not work as intended, and there's pretty much a war between the factions saying one or the other side is at fault for things not "working properly" or allowing it to be loaded together when it wouldn't work 21:06:37 <andythenorth> sounds like grf :P 21:06:48 <andythenorth> FIRS kbans itself with loads of grfs 21:06:50 <andythenorth> including trains 21:07:59 <nielsm> NewGRF has a pretty good mehanism for detecting what else is going on and being loaded, so you can adjust/block yourself depending on circumstances 21:09:13 <nielsm> but with GS that would be more or less impossible since it's not just an enumerated list of features you can implement, but essentially an infinite number of rulesets. trying to enumerate constraints to communicate that would be so difficult to do well I'd just call it impossible 21:10:18 <andythenorth> AI then? :) 21:10:19 <FLHerne> andythenorth: nielsm's "require the player to build somewhere but also don't let them" thing doesn't have a 'winner', both behaviours will work perfectly fine 21:10:19 <andythenorth> FIRS AI 21:10:54 <FLHerne> so loop order doesn't matter, the player just gets stuck with a catch-22 21:10:57 <andythenorth> FLHerne I am aware that it will be a car crash of contention :) 21:11:24 <andythenorth> but in the specific condition where 2 GS control the same resource, the last one to execute will win no? 21:11:45 <glx> they both win 21:11:52 <nielsm> or imagine two GS both trying to force towns to have a road network of different styles, they will keep building their own and removing the other's roads 21:12:03 <andythenorth> yes 21:12:19 <nielsm> the player will see a schizophrenic game 21:12:57 <glx> and some GS set a rule (a setting) and never check if it is modified, and expect it to stay 21:14:02 <andythenorth> it will be amusing 21:15:26 <glx> it's probably possible to detect at compile time if 2 scripts use the same group of functions, but that would be a pain to implement a check like that 21:15:50 <andythenorth> it's also hard to know which ones are harmless and which aren't 21:16:22 <nielsm> anyway, that's the argument for why multiple GS is probably never going to happen 21:16:28 <glx> oh 2 GS writing the story book would be fun too :) 21:17:11 <nielsm> and that's the argument for why I think it'd be okay for AIs to get access to cheating (as long as they manifest themselves as a cheating AI) 21:18:33 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 21:18:52 *** jottyfan has quit IRC 21:19:03 <glx> the only way to have multiple GS is someone manually merge them 21:19:43 <glx> and handling possible conflicts during the merge 21:19:47 <andythenorth> nielsm I originally meant 'if GS can cheat, why not AI?' :) 21:19:50 <andythenorth> and players can cheat 21:20:10 <andythenorth> I will probably have to merge the main GS into the FIRS GS 21:20:19 <nielsm> well part of the original purpose of the AI design is that they need follow the same rules as players 21:20:24 * andythenorth wonders if Squirrel can nest .nut files in dirs 21:20:38 <andythenorth> "add a setting" 21:20:38 <nielsm> original goal * 21:20:47 <andythenorth> "AI can cheat: bool" 21:21:17 <glx> and GS don't cheat, they are god :) 21:21:34 <nielsm> see that's precisely what my proposal is: a flag in the info.nut file, "i_want_to_cheat = true" 21:22:07 <nielsm> and when that flag is set, the AI can call the cheat functions and succeed, but it also shows in the UI the player uses to select/configure AIs 21:25:29 <andythenorth> FIRS + Silicon Valley 21:25:33 <andythenorth> FIRS + NoCarGoal 21:25:38 <andythenorth> FIRS + Busy Bee 21:25:45 <andythenorth> no city builders though :) 21:26:16 <glx> an option could be a GS (still unique) using a GS framework in squirrel to manage sub-GS deisgned for it 21:27:20 <glx> so no changes in openttd, and GS authors find a way to work around the limitation 21:27:45 <nielsm> yeah, something that basically runs a main loop and asks all submodules to do a tick-step, and distributes events to everyone 21:28:18 <nielsm> and then it's up to an author to assemble some modules that make sense together and can be configured to work as a whole 21:28:43 <andythenorth> the FIRS one would rely on parameter to configure exclusive behaviour on/off 21:33:17 <andythenorth> web GS maker :P 21:33:21 <andythenorth> oof vuln maker 21:47:19 *** tokai has joined #openttd 21:47:19 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 21:52:32 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 21:54:15 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 22:19:17 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 22:19:17 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 22:26:05 *** tokai has quit IRC 22:26:23 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 23:10:26 *** nielsm has quit IRC 23:14:03 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 23:42:57 *** tokai has joined #openttd 23:42:58 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 23:49:39 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 23:52:52 *** Progman has quit IRC