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Log for #openttd on 31st August 2021:
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05:50:47  <Rubidium> Gustavo6046: AFAIR the speed of (un)loading is not linked to a track type, but rather to the individual vehicles. Similarly the faster (un)loading only has a secondary effect on the station rating, as there should be fewer people waiting (which influences that rating a lot), though having multiple slower loading trains running in parallel will also get you a lower rating
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07:31:11  <andythenorth> seems GSList.Sort() can't sort cargo labels lexically
07:31:19  <andythenorth> sometimes works, sometimes doesn't
07:41:56  <andythenorth> urgh
07:42:02  <andythenorth> I really hate GS currently
07:42:08  <andythenorth> if I log a cargo I get an int
07:42:25  <andythenorth> but if I pass the cargo to GSCargo.GetCargoLabel(cargo) to get the label
07:42:30  <andythenorth> I get an error that I've passed a string
07:44:12  * andythenorth finds the EBKAC
07:49:22  <Xaroth> do you get an `1` or a `"1"` int ?
07:49:59  <Xaroth> `log(1)` vs `log("1")` gives the same output, but different types.
07:50:22  <peter1138> Hmm, I wonder what the latency was on my original 40MB HDD back in 1990. I know the throughput was significantly lower than current broadband speeds...
07:50:42  <andythenorth> Xaroth it's user error :)
07:50:47  <andythenorth> GS is just weird
07:50:53  <andythenorth> far more weird than grf
07:51:00  <Xaroth> heh
07:51:07  <TrueBrain> lol, lets agree to disagree andythenorth :P
07:51:11  <TrueBrain> peter1138: you are weird. Someone had to say that
07:51:30  <peter1138> Important details!
07:53:51  <TrueBrain> someone just finished a 9 hour (!) TURN session :)
07:54:03  <TrueBrain> costs us a wopping 13 MiB of bandwidth
07:54:08  <TrueBrain> OpenTTD is still cute :)
07:54:28  <peter1138> I guess I should update my server :p
07:54:56  <TrueBrain> 2 connections couldn't be established yesterday
07:55:04  <peter1138> Hmm, I miss timestamps on stdout messages. I could make a patch but...
07:55:26  <TrueBrain> but?
07:56:26  <TrueBrain> so 0.5% of the connections fail. Not a bad value, still higher than I would like :P But I guess we have to await more reports of people who cannot join to investigate :)
07:57:11  <peter1138> But my free time is taken up by moaning about not having gone out cycling.
07:57:23  <TrueBrain> ah, yeah, that is a fulltime job
07:57:49  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #9522: Fix: pathfinders always tried to avoid docking tiles (even if nothing was on them) https://git.io/JEieV
08:01:50  <TrueBrain> hmm, why don't we tell on giving of orders that the PF cannot find a route between that order and the one before?
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08:05:07  <peter1138> Why don't we?
08:05:54  <TrueBrain> I can't be the first to ask, so I assume there is an answer .. either "that is already in there" or "it can't be done because ..." :P
08:06:12  <peter1138> Shared orders and conditional orders could be awkward but probably not insurmountable.
2022021-08-31T10:30:19  <peter1138> Much easier on a BBC Micro which didn't have any sprite hardware :D
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10:47:34  <Eddi|zuHause> things that "break emulators" are usually undocumented hardware quirks that just happened to work, so they got used
10:48:39  <Eddi|zuHause> so emulators that just implement the documented parts will break
10:49:25  <Samu> TrueBrain, "In the upcoming nightly, the OP's savegame behaves again as it did before 31db4f8." - that's only true if no ship was at the destination's docking tile.
10:49:34  <Samu> you fixed 50%
10:50:03  <TrueBrain> is there a ship at the destination docking tile?
10:50:04  <TrueBrain> no?
10:50:07  <TrueBrain> so ..... yeah ....
10:50:14  <Samu> there is
10:50:25  <TrueBrain> you can FF that game for a long time without ever getting "ship is lost"
10:50:30  <TrueBrain> either way, this is a pointless argument
10:50:59  <Samu> anyway, just arguing against the issue being closed
10:51:45  <LordAro> Samu: show concrete examples, not just vague statements
10:52:40  <Samu> the screenshot in the PR
10:53:52  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #9526: Fix #9407: desync when founding a town nearby a station https://git.io/JE9Xw
10:54:08  <LordAro> Samu: i shall continue to ignore you until you say something actionable
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10:56:35  <Samu> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/9522#issuecomment-907828613 i posted these 2 screenshots, and indicated that in the first one ship is lost is triggered. It required a ship to be at the docking tile.
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10:58:08  <LordAro> Samu: so why can't TB reproduce any issues?
10:58:21  <Samu> ship is not stopped
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10:58:27  <Samu> manually stop it after loading
10:58:34  <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: i've been doing that for like 5 years now. hasn't happened yet
10:59:07  <LordAro> Samu: see, at no point in the past have you mentioned that
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11:01:23  <Samu> not arguing against the PR being merged, it fixes something, which is positive, it's just too early to close the issue though
11:02:00  <LordAro> fine
11:02:05  <LordAro> say that in the issue then
11:12:52  <andythenorth__> I miss peter1138 twitch coding
11:13:07  <Eddi|zuHause> you grew a tail
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11:19:04  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on issue #8001: Ship finds path but reports it is lost https://git.io/JvlVp
11:20:45  <Samu> it's funny you're quick to complain that I don't test many scenarios, but when you do the same, it doesn't matter
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11:47:17  <Xaroth> Hm?
11:47:30  <Xaroth> I'm confused, Samu.
12:18:36  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8001: Ship finds path but reports it is lost https://git.io/JvlVp
12:20:00  <peter1138> andythenorth, last time I did that I got "told off" ;-)
12:20:27  <TrueBrain> by who? who should we bitchslap? :P
12:20:40  <peter1138> I won't name names!
12:20:48  <TrueBrain> :P
12:21:02  <TrueBrain> I always wanted to do a twitch coding stream .. just because it sounds like a lot of fun :P
12:23:14  <peter1138> So do it.
12:23:27  <TrueBrain> collab!
12:26:14  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #9525: [Bug]: "ship is lost" is only reported after ship leaving depot https://git.io/JESXH
12:28:34  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on issue #9525: [Bug]: "ship is lost" is only reported after ship leaving depot https://git.io/JESXH
12:31:41  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #9526: Fix #9407: desync when founding a town nearby a station https://git.io/JESAi
12:31:44  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed issue #9407: [Bug]: CmdFoundTown may cause multiplayer desyncs due to not initialising Town::stations_near https://git.io/JcZJh
12:39:19  <Samu> on my 15 ais, road vehicle ticks are averaging 62 ms
12:39:33  <Samu> there's about 4000*15 rv's in the world atm
12:40:40  <andythenorth> I don't remember telling peter1138 off :P
12:40:42  <andythenorth> was it me?
12:40:54  <Samu> funny aircraft ticks are higher than ship ticks
12:41:07  <Samu> I guess buoys help a great deal here
12:43:22  <peter1138> andythenorth, no :-)
12:43:57  <Samu> https://i.imgur.com/2ZeU1PC.png
12:44:42  <peter1138> Samu, do AIs use threads yet?
12:45:04  <Samu> i dont know
12:45:10  <TrueBrain> does singleplayer queue commands? :D
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12:51:50  <Samu> it's so awesome to see a 4096x4096 becoming populated
12:53:42  <Samu> minimap zoomed out https://i.imgur.com/onSwAho.png
12:54:42  <Rubidium> isn't it better to do the minimap export?
12:56:02  <Samu> this one? https://i.imgur.com/Xk2S1Vd.png
12:56:34  <Rubidium> isn't that one much prettier?
12:57:03  <LordAro> the map looks empty unless i actually zoom in :)
12:58:09  <Rubidium> buy a bigger screen ;) Or... the image viewer must be made aware of the content, so it can prioritize the routes over land/water
12:58:33  <TrueBrain> for some reason I imagine "game of life"
13:00:21  <andythenorth> same
13:00:28  <andythenorth> the digital simulation, not the board game
13:00:34  <TrueBrain> ofc
13:00:51  <andythenorth> the board game ain't great https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/Fq8AAOSweBFguS8a/s-l1600.jpg
13:01:09  <andythenorth> super patriarchal hetero-normative capitalism
13:01:15  <andythenorth> and also not fun
13:03:27  <Samu> I am revisiting #7918
13:04:39  <Samu> now I understand the power of cache
13:05:08  <Samu> iterating all vehicles is bad, I have a different view on #7918 now
13:06:43  <andythenorth> hmm what was I doing?
13:06:59  <andythenorth> replicating newgrf industry production logic in GS
13:07:15  * andythenorth seriously wondering about an nml -> squirrel transpile
13:07:19  <andythenorth> I'd be so out of my depth :D
13:07:26  <andythenorth> would be very funny
13:09:54  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #7918: Fix 3c047b1: AIGroup.GetProfitLastYear could get values different than those displayed in gui https://git.io/JEHLy
13:09:57  <LordAro> do a squirrel to lua transpile first
13:13:09  <TrueBrain> LordAro: you are on a roll, aren't you? :D
13:13:11  <Eddi|zuHause> and then back to squirrel?
13:13:37  <Eddi|zuHause> like those "google translate sings songs" videos?
13:13:57  <LordAro> TrueBrain: it would mean we could write AIs in lua!
13:14:11  <LordAro> while not requiring me to have to rewrite AroAI
13:14:15  <TrueBrain> I wish that actually solved anything, otherwise I would do it :P
13:15:14  <Samu> I need a direction, how to proceed with #7918?
13:15:38  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: it's like andythenorth switching templating languages every other week
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13:18:00  <Samu> question is, do I make a new PR that would superseeds #7918 and implement solution 2 presented in the comments?, or do I overwrite the solution 2 while keeping the same PR? it's going to be more difficult to follow that PR's progress though
13:18:50  <LordAro> Samu: if you're still solving the same problem, overwrite would be preferred
13:19:14  <Samu> alright, thanks
13:19:15  <glx> andythenorth: in french the board game is named "destins", sounds better
13:20:20  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep updated pull request #8480: Feature: Extended depots https://git.io/JL5Hh
13:22:25  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause remind me, how many templating languages have I used since 2008?
13:22:45  <Eddi|zuHause> sorry, i lost count :p
13:23:05  <andythenorth> you can't count to 1? :P
13:23:08  <andythenorth> oof
13:23:28  <andythenorth> strictly there was C Pre-Processor and variadic macros as well, but I didn't add that
13:23:30  <andythenorth> I only deleted it
13:24:35  <andythenorth> LordAro sqrl -> lua doesn't seem to encapsulate any of grf :P
13:24:55  * andythenorth only wants to transpile the production callback, it can't be that hard?
13:25:41  <andythenorth> it's just a bunch of if statements
13:25:44  <Eddi|zuHause> that's simple, you just have to add an output module to nmlc
13:26:05  <andythenorth> we've got the AST...
13:27:31  <andythenorth> I suspect I'll have to manually recreate it
13:27:50  <andythenorth> simply taking the logic won't work, there'll have to be abstractions for things that are in permanent storage
13:28:00  <andythenorth> and maybe for vars that GS can't read
13:28:08  <andythenorth> but I think it's viable
13:29:09  <Eddi|zuHause> you have to map permanent storage to a squirrel data structure, and add no-ops for the unreadable vars
13:30:14  <Eddi|zuHause> you can add simplifications for that assuming you only want to output partial programs, not complete runnable ones
13:30:15  <andythenorth> storage in this context is populated by operations on amounts of cargo received
13:30:25  <andythenorth> which GS can access, but not in the same time frame AFAICT
13:30:42  <andythenorth> so there needs to be some adjustment to production calculation for timespan
13:30:52  <andythenorth> eh, it's only a simulation of the industry :)
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14:23:40  <Samu> autoreplace and vehicle group management is ... really hard to follow in code
14:23:53  <Samu> i have to think there's 2 vehicles temporarily
14:24:45  <Samu> the old vehicle is still in existance in the group where the new vehicle is getting put into. this confuses statistics copying
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14:45:45  <Samu> I don't have a good way to test this fully :(
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14:46:51  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7918: Fix 3c047b1: AIGroup.GetProfitLastYear could get values different than those displayed in gui https://git.io/Jvek6
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15:17:58  <Samu> just updated main topic with more text!
15:18:09  <Samu> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7918#issue-546327370
15:19:39  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] BadBrett opened issue #9527: [Crash]: NewGRF with multi-tile object causes OpenTTD 12.0-beta2 to crash on map generation https://git.io/JEH61
15:21:28  <FLHerne> wait, is that THAT Bad_Brett?
15:21:37  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
15:21:39  <LordAro> i think it might be
15:21:43  <LordAro> can't be that many of them
15:22:08  <FLHerne> Wow, he's active again on the forum, yes
15:22:52  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #9527: [Crash]: NewGRF with multi-tile object causes OpenTTD 12.0-beta2 to crash on map generation https://git.io/JEH61
15:24:35  <LordAro> hmm, game seed does not appear in the gamelog
15:24:36  <LordAro> shame
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15:30:40  <TrueBrain> You need more than the seed I think .. also all terrain settings
15:30:59  <LordAro> mm, likely...
15:31:15  <LordAro> still, can probably place it on the border manually
15:31:37  <TrueBrain> Try it :D
15:31:44  <TrueBrain> (See what I did there?)
15:35:16  <LordAro> the objects in the GRF provided cannot be manually placed
15:36:15  <TrueBrain> Lame
15:36:53  <LordAro> oh hang on, it's a desert object
15:37:01  <LordAro> of course it is, it's Bad_Brett
15:40:26  <LordAro> hmm, object size is 0x0
15:40:31  <LordAro> this feels familiar..
15:43:12  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #9527: [Crash]: NewGRF with multi-tile object causes OpenTTD 12.0-beta2 to crash on map generation https://git.io/JEH61
15:44:18  <FLHerne> I feel like I did that already
15:44:37  <LordAro> aha, #8276
15:44:40  <LordAro> thought it was familiar
15:44:55  <LordAro> though there is a size: [2,2]; in the nml file provided
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15:46:46  <FLHerne> Oh, mine was 8166, a roadtype with no label
15:47:10  <FLHerne> I think I was half-remembering 8276 also, but that's dp's
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16:18:55  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] BadBrett commented on issue #9527: [Crash]: NewGRF with multi-tile object causes OpenTTD 12.0-beta2 to crash on map generation https://git.io/JEH61
16:21:09  <TrueBrain> (tile=65569) <- lol .. LordAro , I guess you are on a 256x256 map? :D
16:21:32  <TrueBrain> ah, yes, that is in there too
16:22:37  <LordAro> obvs
16:23:09  <LordAro> (because the object is apparently being (partly?) recognised as 0x0, i can't place it manually either
16:23:12  <LordAro> )
16:23:31  <TrueBrain> I guess it works for 1.11.2 for example because asserts are disabled :P
16:23:46  <LordAro> that'd certainly help
16:24:01  <TrueBrain> seems CmdBuildObject doesn't do any bound checking :P
16:24:09  <TrueBrain> so we can play: this has been broken for how long? :D
16:24:23  <LordAro> assuming that's where the bounds checking should be
16:24:27  <LordAro> but yes :)
16:24:31  <LordAro> probably as long as NewObjects
16:25:00  <TrueBrain> well, TileArea doesn't do bound checking either, it seems
16:26:25  <TrueBrain> int size_x = GB(spec->size, HasBit(view, 0) ? 4 : 0, 4);
16:26:28  <TrueBrain> do I even want to know?
16:27:06  <LordAro> flipped x/y?
16:27:17  <LordAro> objects store their size in a single byte
16:27:37  <TrueBrain> yeah, but the flipping of w/h .. it is amusing :)
16:30:02  <LordAro> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ i didn't make the spec :p
16:30:30  <TrueBrain> I am not pointing fingers :) Just NewGRF doesn't stop amazing me :)
16:31:06  <LordAro> ☜(゚ヮ゚☜)
16:31:08  * LordAro points fingers
16:31:20  <TrueBrain> ....... the moment I hate unicode ...
16:31:25  <TrueBrain> the = that
16:31:38  <TrueBrain> give me back the time it was just being rendered as a box with a cross in it plz
16:32:07  <TrueBrain> 💩
16:32:26  <TrueBrain> okay, that is just plain awesome
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16:36:03  <glx> hehe
16:36:57  <J0anJosep> Hi!
16:38:56  <J0anJosep> I get this error message in the commit checker for PR#8480: No common parent found for this merge commit (max-depth of 256 reached)
16:39:22  <J0anJosep> Any idea of how I can solve it?
16:40:45  <glx> usually means you're on the wrong branch when opening the PR
16:43:20  <glx> but it doesn't seem to be the case here
16:45:06  <glx> maybe a bug in commit checker (75 commits is not usual ;) )
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16:48:06  <J0anJosep> I think it passed the tests before with more than 80 commits.
16:50:57  <FLHerne> OpenTTD proper didn't do the master -> main change yet, did it?
16:51:07  <glx> not yet
16:52:22  <FLHerne> TrueBrain: My favourite grf thing is the way all offsets are relative to the *invisible* corner of the bounding box
16:52:56  <FLHerne> Like, if it was the front 'middle' corner' you could count pixels from it in the offset tool
16:53:24  <FLHerne> but no, all the offsets are relative to the one corner that's not displayed at all
16:54:27  <TrueBrain> ha :D
16:54:32  <TrueBrain> we need to write a book about it :P
16:54:36  <frosch123> FLHerne: you did not get to child sprites then :p
16:54:37  <TrueBrain> oddities in OpenTTD / NewGRF
16:56:15  <andythenorth> my NEW favourite thing is 15 bit callback results
16:56:48  <TrueBrain> J0anJosep: honestly, I wouldn't worry about that CI part failing; if you are done with your PR and are happy with it, we need to talk how we are going to merge that all anyway :)
16:56:53  <TrueBrain> and I doubt that would be in a single PR ;)
16:58:21  <andythenorth> the book exists
16:58:22  <andythenorth> https://orly-appstore.herokuapp.com/generate?title=NewGRF%20for%20developers&top_text=Make%20excellent%20trains&author=TrueBrain&image_code=20&theme=1&guide_text=&guide_text_placement=bottom_right
16:58:34  <TrueBrain> glx: https://github.com/OpenTTD/actions/blob/main/checkout-pull-request/action.yml#L16 <- pretty sure that is not doing what we were hoping :D
16:58:48  <TrueBrain> lol @ andythenorth
16:58:56  <andythenorth> maybe there is a frog
16:59:05  <andythenorth> the subtext could be 'quak'
16:59:09  <andythenorth> https://dev.to/rly
16:59:11  <TrueBrain> hmm, elements updated, and tab-completion is now annoying :P Yay for progress!
16:59:37  <frosch123> andythenorth: interesting site
16:59:43  <TrueBrain> glx: guess that "=" should be "-gt" :D
17:00:02  <TrueBrain> so yeah, 64 commits is currently the limit :P
17:00:58  <J0anJosep> TrueBrain: Ok. I won't worry about it then.
17:02:24  <andythenorth> https://orly-appstore.herokuapp.com/generate?title=GS%20for%20NewGRF%20authors&top_text=PEBKAC&author=GLX&image_code=17&theme=10&guide_text=&guide_text_placement=bottom_right
17:02:49  <TrueBrain> https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2021/08/31/windows-11-available-on-october-5/ <- are we ready for that? :P
17:03:18  <glx> I don't plan to buy a new computer so
17:03:37  <TrueBrain> I wonder if that gives any new crashes
17:04:39  <frosch123> https://orly-appstore.herokuapp.com/generate?title=Templating%20turing%20machines&top_text=Run%20as%20fast%20as%20you%20can&author=andythenorth&image_code=20&theme=0&guide_text=pytouring&guide_text_placement=bottom_right
17:05:08  <TrueBrain> this will be the rest of the evening now, not?
17:05:18  <frosch123> yes
17:06:07  <frosch123> TrueBrain: windows 11 still does not run on leap days
17:06:22  <TrueBrain> :( Unusuable
17:07:08  <J0anJosep> Is it possible to create a preview for a PR I have in my own repository?
17:07:33  <TrueBrain> nope; you cannot read the secrets required for that
17:07:35  <TrueBrain> you would need to setup your own AWS account if you like to do that
17:07:37  <TrueBrain> I wouldn't advise it :)
17:07:43  * Rubidium wonders whether buying a computer in a time of huge chip shortages is the best time... seems a bit... uhm... weird
17:09:45  <J0anJosep> TrueBrain: Thanks! And can I prevent the CI being executed in my repository? It runs every time I push a PR and I get emails each time.
17:09:51  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/actions] TrueBrain opened pull request #34: Fix: [checkout-pull-request] PR commit limit kicked in one round too early https://git.io/JEQeH
17:10:04  <TrueBrain> J0anJosep: under actions, click the dots, click disable
17:10:22  <TrueBrain> well, click the workflow first
17:10:32  <TrueBrain> than the dots right of the "filter workflow runs" text thingy
17:10:52  <J0anJosep> TrueBrain: Thank you!
17:10:54  <TrueBrain> it won't run that workflow again till you enable it
17:14:28  <andythenorth> new computers!
17:14:37  * andythenorth saying random words
17:15:20  <glx> TrueBrain: yup ran the script by hand locally, that's definitely the issue
17:18:18  <TrueBrain> good! Review the PR, and lets gooooo :)
17:18:31  <TrueBrain> I hate releasing a new set of actions, requires me to manually do stuff on the CLI :P
17:19:01  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/actions] glx22 approved pull request #34: Fix: [checkout-pull-request] PR commit limit kicked in one round too early https://git.io/JEQfY
17:19:28  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/actions] TrueBrain merged pull request #34: Fix: [checkout-pull-request] PR commit limit kicked in one round too early https://git.io/JEQeH
17:20:32  *** duckfullstop is now known as luaduck
17:20:43  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/actions] TrueBrain created new tag: v2.1.2 https://git.io/JEQfa
17:22:28  <TrueBrain> lets see if it actually works ... retriggered the job
17:22:49  <TrueBrain> frosch123: https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/9518 <- made this specially for you! :)
17:23:12  <glx> anyway even with windows 11 I'll still need a 32bit XP VM to use my scanner :)
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17:24:29  <glx> commit checker is happy now
17:24:35  <TrueBrain> \o/
17:24:53  <glx> it was "well tested" :)
17:25:43  <glx> I think the biggest PR tested with it was CMake
17:25:52  <TrueBrain> that was before I moved it :P
17:26:23  <glx> it was included in workflow (I wrote the script)
17:26:54  <glx> remember it was full of bashism on first try
17:27:10  *** Progman has quit IRC
17:27:18  <TrueBrain> no no, I recently converted the TypeScript version to bash again, remember? :D
17:27:24  <TrueBrain> pretty sure this happened while doing that
17:27:37  <glx> oh possible
17:27:50  <TrueBrain> and the reviewer didn't catch it
17:27:50  <TrueBrain> tssk
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17:29:49  <glx> ah it wasn't me for this one, (but I would probably have missed it)
17:30:03  <TrueBrain> did you really look up who to blame? Lol :P
17:30:05  <TrueBrain> evil
17:33:36  <frosch123> stringids are funny, STR_CONFIG_SETTING_PATHFINDER_YAPF_RECOMMENDED <- adding the "recommended" into the stringid makes it harder to change the recommendation? :p
17:33:53  <TrueBrain> yeah ... there is a lot of ... "fun" things in there
17:34:14  <TrueBrain> I most hate the place we put "TRAIN" / "ROAD" / etc .. that is just unneeded more complex
17:35:17  <frosch123> so, was there no unused string in the end?
17:35:22  <TrueBrain> a handful
17:35:43  <TrueBrain> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/9516
17:36:06  <TrueBrain> I expected a lot more :P
17:36:08  <frosch123> ah, different PR :)
17:37:20  <TrueBrain> yeah .. required a bit of archeology to figure out what happened for some :P
17:39:30  <glx> some were never used ;)
17:43:07  <frosch123> oh dear, you had to call cpp as subprocess :) don't give andy any ideas
17:43:37  <TrueBrain> so why mention it! :P
17:49:06  <Rubidium> frosch123: if you want it changed, add it to #9101 ;)
17:51:26  <frosch123> wow, you expect me to remember something i said 16 minutes ago, and put things into context? :p
17:51:51  <frosch123> i wondered 2 minutes how 9101 changes things for cpp :p
17:52:44  <TrueBrain> he is a bit slow :P
17:53:35  <frosch123> but i'll pass it on: TrueBrain, if you want to change the _TRAIN strings etc, put them into #9101 :p
17:54:13  <TrueBrain> I was just writing that
17:55:55  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on discussion #9101: Which strings in english.txt should be renamed or moved before 1.12? https://git.io/JOQOA
17:57:26  <glx> yes makes sense to put the type at the end
17:57:30  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on discussion #9101: Which strings in english.txt should be renamed or moved before 1.12? https://git.io/JOQOA
17:57:53  <glx> most string id are based on the actual string text
17:58:08  <TrueBrain> there frosch123 , even added the RECOMMENDED
17:58:26  <glx> but it's not the best for automatic stuff
17:59:12  <frosch123> TrueBrain: i'll spread myths about truepf
17:59:15  <TrueBrain> what do you mean glx?
17:59:25  <TrueBrain> frosch123: haha, that would have been better than yayapf :)
18:00:26  <glx> STR_NEWS_FIRST_TRAIN_ARRIVAL                                    :{BIG_FONT}{BLACK}Citizens celebrate . . .{}First train arrives at {STATION}!
18:00:26  <glx> STR_NEWS_FIRST_BUS_ARRIVAL                                      :{BIG_FONT}{BLACK}Citizens celebrate . . .{}First bus arrives at {STATION}!
18:01:32  <TrueBrain> later strings show it is not really related to the actual string
18:01:41  <TrueBrain> but somehow this sense of writing down stringids just kept going
18:01:46  <TrueBrain> "_TOOLTIP" MUST COME LAST
18:01:46  <TrueBrain> :P
18:02:04  <glx> yeah new strings are more smart for the id
18:02:21  <glx> but  as always the legacy :)
18:15:12  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on pull request #9518: Codechange: validate what strings are defined but not used https://git.io/JEQYl
18:22:18  <frosch123> looks like the release of ottd's new networking has caused china to limit online games to 3 hours/week for children
18:23:14  <andythenorth> my kids are horrified by that news
18:23:21  <andythenorth> they see it as infringement of basic rights
18:23:30  <andythenorth> someone now has to say "and this is why China will win"
18:25:46  <Eddi|zuHause> remember back in the old days, parents tried to limit TV to 1h per day...?
18:28:07  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/actions] J0anJosep commented on pull request #34: Fix: [checkout-pull-request] PR commit limit kicked in one round too early https://git.io/JEQ3q
18:31:56  <andythenorth> my parents just refused to own a TV
18:32:00  <andythenorth> nuclear option
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18:33:08  <Eddi|zuHause> mine tried that too, for like half a year
18:33:30  <frosch123> i don't have a "tv"
18:33:39  <frosch123> sounds like last century
18:34:25  <Eddi|zuHause> there's an xkcd for that
18:35:04  <Eddi|zuHause> https://xkcd.com/1299/
18:35:04  <andythenorth> is there an xkcd for "there's an xkcd for that"?
18:35:36  <LordAro> 33, perhaps?
18:36:40  <frosch123> rule 33? if it exists, there is an xkcd about it?
18:36:55  *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
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18:46:57  <Eddi|zuHause> i have a satellite card in my pc, but i used it maybe like 3 times in the last 2 years
18:55:53  <peter1138> I had a DVB-T USB stick somewhere, but we moved on to DVB-T2...
18:57:29  <frosch123> dvb-t2 feels like fat32
18:57:36  <frosch123> already obsolte on release
18:59:44  <andythenorth> I have youtube...
19:00:21  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #9289: Change: Shortcut varaction chains for callbacks. https://git.io/JsHuK
19:09:37  <LordAro> :o
19:09:57  <Xaroth> Rubidium: I have an example admin port thing for #9456 , will comment once I've cleaned this up a bit... also found a bug with the admin port while making this....
19:10:25  *** roadt has quit IRC
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19:15:56  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #9528: Fix a2051bad: SendCmdNames doesn't fill up a packet as much as possible https://git.io/JEQCx
19:16:19  <TrueBrain> I love 1 character fixes :)
19:16:20  <TrueBrain> that make me happy
19:16:23  <TrueBrain> +s
19:16:28  <TrueBrain> see!!!
19:16:52  <TrueBrain> I welcome suggestions for better commit messages
19:19:46  <frosch123> remove the negation: SendCmdNames only sent one name per packet
19:20:01  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 approved pull request #9528: Fix a2051bad: SendCmdNames doesn't fill up a packet as much as possible https://git.io/JEQWg
19:20:06  <glx> I'm trying to understand the "more data" bool in comment, and github makes me think there's an alignment issue
19:20:18  <TrueBrain> yeah, GitHub doesn't like tabs anymore
19:20:20  <TrueBrain> it annoys me greatly
19:20:39  <frosch123> glx: the send_bool after the loop
19:20:39  <TrueBrain> tnx frosch123, that is a lot better indeed :D
19:21:22  <TrueBrain> it strongly assumes TCP, this packet :)
19:22:06  <frosch123> to append a string you need enough room for send_bool+send_uint16+send_string+0-term+send_bool after loop
19:23:03  <glx> my brain is just confused by "more data" and "no more data" bools
19:23:27  <TrueBrain> it is more: "last-entry-in-this-packet"
19:23:38  <frosch123> no idea why they are needed :) the packet-length would also have worked
19:23:40  <glx> but false is nothing follows in this packet
19:23:46  <TrueBrain> well: not-last-entry-in-this-packet, ofc
19:24:12  <TrueBrain> it doesn't even tell you if you can expect more entries in another packet
19:24:16  <TrueBrain> which is just the best :)
19:24:17  <glx> while true means a command (and a bool) follows
19:25:00  <frosch123> [21:24] <TrueBrain> it doesn't even tell you if you can expect more entries in another packet <- actually, that makes a lot more sense. maybe someone intended that and messed up the true/false
19:25:23  <TrueBrain> I would have expected an enum ..
19:25:33  <TrueBrain> ENTRY_FOLLOWS, PACKET_FULL, END_OF_LIST
19:25:54  <TrueBrain> but, I guess, this works too ..
19:26:15  <glx> it works because it's not UDP :)
19:27:10  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Xaroth commented on pull request #9456: Fix #9388: thread unsafe use of NetworkAdminConsole/IConsolePrint https://git.io/JEQlr
19:27:13  <frosch123> SendProtocol does the same weird true/false thing
19:27:30  <TrueBrain> once one person starts with it ... copy/paste is not far behind :)
19:28:21  <TrueBrain> frosch123: that one is even more weird .. why not just start with a length word or something :)
19:28:46  <TrueBrain> or use the ID for it, with 0xffff or what-ever :)
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19:33:14  <glx> seems the number of commands is not even sent
19:33:57  <TrueBrain> that isn't bad an sich .. there is this debate about how to send stuff over network .. length-prefixed, or a "there-is-no-more" marker at the end
19:34:03  <TrueBrain> from strings to complete packets
19:34:42  <TrueBrain> and mostly people are strong believers of one camp over the other, as that goes :P
19:34:59  <glx> but in the particular case of these packets, it's none of both
19:35:24  <TrueBrain> that is what is odd about it :)
19:36:08  <glx> receiver will just get an unknown number of packets and luckily it's not UDP
19:36:29  <TrueBrain> unknown number of packets with an unknown number of entries for the same list :)
19:36:32  <TrueBrain> at least it is a dict
19:36:35  <TrueBrain> so it is fiinnnneeeeee
19:37:09  <TrueBrain> the Game Coordinator sends the server-list also in multiple packets, without telling how many to expect exactly
19:37:17  <TrueBrain> buttttttt
19:37:24  <frosch123> https://dpaste.org/EQ3D <- that's the code in joan
19:37:40  <frosch123> repo is on dead devzone :p
19:37:44  <TrueBrain> each packet starts with how many servers are in there
19:37:45  <TrueBrain> and the final packet is one with servers=0
19:38:22  <TrueBrain> frosch123: sounds about right
19:38:27  <TrueBrain> wtf is joan btw?
19:38:36  <frosch123> that
19:38:43  <glx> a adminport API implementation
19:38:46  <frosch123> that's the first/reference admin port client
19:38:52  <glx> in java
19:38:52  <TrueBrain> ah
19:38:54  <Xaroth> https://github.com/Xaroth/libottdadmin2/blob/master/libottdadmin2/packets/server.py#L561-L567 is how libottdadmin2 implements it
19:38:54  <TrueBrain> Java, brrr
19:39:00  <frosch123> written by the same dih who implemented the stuff in ottd
19:39:12  <TrueBrain> ah, so we have someone to blame :P
19:39:21  <TrueBrain> I keep waiting for the moment someone says: owh, it is already done this way in the game protocol
19:39:25  <TrueBrain> as that most likely means my name is on it :P
19:39:39  <frosch123> so, looks like joan will ignore any data after the "false"
19:39:49  <TrueBrain> sweet, side channel!
19:39:55  <frosch123> and range-except if the package ends without a false
19:39:58  <glx> it will be retriggered by next packet
19:40:38  <glx> but yeah false is end-of-packet
19:40:41  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #9528: Fix a2051bad: SendCmdNames only sent one name per packet https://git.io/JEQCx
19:41:05  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #7918: Fix 3c047b1: AIGroup.GetProfitLastYear could get values different than those displayed in gui https://git.io/JEQ4q
19:41:33  <TrueBrain> it is just pure evil: this packet is finished, and I will not tell you if you can expect any more of the same type
19:41:37  <TrueBrain> JUST WAIT AND SEE
19:41:38  <TrueBrain> :D
19:41:50  <TrueBrain> I just hear someone gniffiling every time this packet is used
19:42:02  <TrueBrain> gniffiling .. is that valid English?
19:42:07  <TrueBrain> dunno .. you get what I mean :P
19:42:13  <Xaroth> chuckle.
19:42:13  <glx> forcing handling packets as events
19:42:23  <TrueBrain> more than a chuckle
19:42:25  <Xaroth> snickering
19:43:01  <frosch123> hmm, receiveServerCmdNames is "synchronised", but then it stores the data in threadlocal storage
19:43:07  * frosch123 stops reading java
19:43:24  <TrueBrain> awh, the rabbit hole wasn't nice and warm?
19:43:36  <TrueBrain> well, honestly, it is Java .. it was very very hot ... hellish, I dare say :P
19:43:51  <glx> still better than php
19:44:01  <glx> (at least it's consistent)
19:44:24  <TrueBrain> I still remember one of my teachers at the uni, after I made a remark of having a strong distaste for Java: "you will need to learn to like Java, as you cannot find an IT job later if you cannot write Java"
19:44:37  <glx> lol
19:45:00  <TrueBrain> such a cute remark :)
19:45:06  <TrueBrain> he wasn't even that old or anything ..
19:45:29  <Rubidium> that isn't as bad as... "write comments, otherwise the compiler does not know what it is supposed to do"
19:45:37  <Xaroth> hah, lolz
19:45:49  <TrueBrain> who-ever said that should no longer be teaching what-ever it was he was teaching
19:46:07  <TrueBrain> there is a difference between "onbekwaam" and just being naïve :)
19:46:33  <Xaroth> I had to endure classes for Novell's stack, teacher kept saying how it was the next big thing and you'd be able to land a job at any big firm
19:46:52  <TrueBrain> you make it sound like you are 50 :P
19:46:56  <TrueBrain> :D :D
19:46:59  <glx> isn't novell dead with nt4 ?
19:47:10  <TrueBrain> IPX/SPX yo!
19:47:20  <Xaroth> It was already dead at that time, yes
19:47:21  <Rubidium> nah, not if you used Windows 9x
19:47:33  <_aD> Xaroth: Ironically, there are probably a few big firms which are still offering the big bucks for Novell greybeards...
19:47:49  <TrueBrain> for all the wrong reasons ....... :P
19:47:50  * Rubidium actually set up a Novell network back in the day
19:48:08  <Rubidium> but alas... token ring and the likes
19:48:17  <Rubidium> anyone know what happened to 3com?
19:48:27  <_aD> I just managed to appear as Ethernet was de-facto, thankfully...
19:48:45  <Xaroth> bought by HP, iirc
19:49:00  <frosch123> _aD: i had job interviews at software ag (adabas, natural) and some insurance company (PL/I), just for fun :p
19:49:08  <glx> I have a 3com card somewhere, never managed to make it work
19:49:29  <frosch123> the former called "natural" the "better cobol" :)
19:49:32  <glx> and it was a plug and play one
19:50:04  <glx> (well win9x plug and play ;) )
19:50:08  <_aD> frosch123: Organic Cobol (TM)
19:50:19  <_aD> Play and pray, then.
19:54:47  <Rubidium> Xaroth: thanks for the code, I hope I have time to fiddle with it next month
19:54:57  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #7918: Fix 3c047b1: AIGroup.GetProfitLastYear could get values different than those displayed in gui https://git.io/JEQB1
19:55:03  <frosch123> looks like ipx has 32+48 address bits, so way more than ipv4
19:56:03  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #9527: [Crash]: NewGRF with multi-tile object causes OpenTTD 12.0-beta2 to crash on map generation https://git.io/JEH61
19:58:05  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7918: Fix 3c047b1: AIGroup.GetProfitLastYear could get values different than those displayed in gui https://git.io/Jvek6
19:58:12  <Xaroth> Rubidium: you know where to find me if you get stuck :)
19:59:01  <frosch123> be careful, maybe rb is in a timezone, where it's already 2021-09-01
20:04:01  <_aD> FIRS Steeltown: Go big or go home.
20:04:12  <_aD> I think once I hit MagLevs I'm going to go scorched earth.
20:09:33  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] BadBrett commented on issue #9527: [Crash]: NewGRF with multi-tile object causes OpenTTD 12.0-beta2 to crash on map generation https://git.io/JEH61
20:12:46  <FLHerne> Rubidium: ...you know that in NML's parser, the comments are required for the compiler to know what it does? :p
20:13:06  <FLHerne> well, I suppose docstrings aren't syntactically comments
20:13:09  <FLHerne> but still
20:14:04  <frosch123> that's ply's idea, not nml's, is it?
20:14:11  <glx> yeah it's ply
20:14:57  <glx> nice use of python features
20:15:02  <Samu> michi_cc, I've been thinking... I suspect the move I just did is gonna be worse. If 'copy group membership' fails, the viewports have already been switched! And that's undoable
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20:20:08  <Samu> is there a quick way to force a command to fail?
20:20:45  <Samu> for quick testing
20:21:04  <glx> make it return CMD_ERROR I guess
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20:27:03  <Samu> thx, seems that I'm mistaken
20:27:37  <Samu> apparently these viewports changes didn't happen, or I didn't notice anything different
20:30:30  <Samu> i'm confused
20:30:48  <Samu> when i tested this, that block wasn't ever skipped, now it is for some reason
20:32:05  <Samu> ah, i see
20:32:18  <Samu> nevermind, i can't use CMD_ERROR anywhere I like
20:33:43  <Samu> TEST and EXEC, I keep forgetting about them
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20:38:10  <Samu> yeah, if it passes in TEST mode, it won't ever fail in EXEC mode. I tried making it fail in TEST mode, but that resulted in the viewport changes to never happen
20:38:35  <Samu> very safe code measures you guys have
20:39:06  * andythenorth did a class in pascal
20:39:14  <andythenorth> but I skipped the class, just did the assignment
20:39:40  <andythenorth> got some comment about 'achieves the result, but is top-down design' or something similar
20:42:02  <andythenorth> I had no idea what that meant at the time, due to skipping the lectures :P
20:44:48  <Samu> just re tested against the assert. Everything's fine, no assert happened. Costs between gui and group still match!
20:45:12  <Samu> sorry for the false alarm michi_cc
20:46:14  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro opened pull request #9529: Fix #9527: Crash when trying to place multitile objects at map edge https://git.io/JEQ2c
20:46:20  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #9527: [Crash]: NewGRF with multi-tile object causes OpenTTD 12.0-beta2 to crash on map generation https://git.io/JEH61
20:48:28  <frosch123> what was not correct about the non-zero size check?
20:48:41  <LordAro> it only masked, didn't bit shift
20:48:55  <LordAro> (and then checked for 0)
20:48:57  <glx> did you check NFO output compared to spec ?
20:49:26  <LordAro> glx: i have not touched grf, because i do not know what i am doing
20:49:38  <frosch123> 0 << i == 0
20:50:10  <frosch123> i don't mind changing it to GB, but it's just a codechange, no fix :)
20:50:21  <LordAro> no, it's definitely a fix
20:51:02  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on pull request #9529: Fix #9527: Crash when trying to place multitile objects at map edge https://git.io/JEQ2x
20:51:05  <LordAro> `0x20 & 0xF0` gets read as 32, not 2
20:51:06  <michi_cc> If you compare to 0, shifting isn't doing aynthing.
20:52:36  <LordAro> i did get the directions the wrong way round in my comment however
20:54:18  <frosch123> it's weird that OrthogonalTileArea has a ClampToMap(), but no check for inside-map
20:54:22  <glx> let me compile the grf to check nfo
20:54:50  <LordAro> frosch123: mm
20:55:02  <LordAro> i couldn't find any other examples of TileArea being clamped either
20:55:11  <LordAro> but i might not have been looking hard enough
20:56:16  <frosch123> LordAro: 0 << 4 is still 0
20:56:56  <LordAro> ...i am not trying to bitshift in that direction
20:57:24  <glx> GB does >> 4 ;)
20:57:58  <glx> but should not change == 0 result
20:58:30  <frosch123> 0 stays 0 no matter in what direction you shift
20:58:50  <frosch123> you keep giving the example with comparing to 2, but you are not comparing to 2
20:58:56  <LordAro> 0x22 - 2x2, in byte form. i want to check that neither dimension is 0. Previously, it only did `s & 0xF0`, which only zeros out the lower 4 bits. This means you were left checking 0x20 == 0, which is not helping
20:59:11  <LordAro> instead of 0x2
20:59:23  <frosch123> well, read the second part of the line
20:59:27  <frosch123> there is a ||
20:59:46  <LordAro> i know, i added the thing
21:00:00  <frosch123> maybe get some sleep :) i don't think irc is the right place to explain hex
21:00:07  <LordAro> i'm having difficulty spelling this out further
21:00:10  <LordAro> it is wrong
21:00:26  <frosch123> i'll quote you on that tomorrow, when you are awake :)
21:00:36  <michi_cc> 0x20 != 0, just like 0x02 != 0, while 0x00 == 0 just like 0x0 == 0.
21:01:38  <glx> you inverted 0xF0 and 0x0F tests during the GB move, was that the wrong part ?
21:02:51  <glx> oh 0x02 could pass while it should not
21:03:24  <LordAro> thank you
21:03:36  <LordAro> https://godbolt.org/z/419Mhaz3P
21:05:41  <frosch123> @calc 0x02 & 0xF0
21:05:42  <DorpsGek> frosch123: Error: unsupported operand type(s) for &: 'float' and 'float'
21:05:52  <frosch123> great
21:06:08  <glx> it's 0x00 ;)
21:06:32  <frosch123> so, how does 0x02 pass?
21:07:02  <glx> hmm but then 0x20 would be an issue ;)
21:07:18  <frosch123> @calc 0x20 & 0x0F
21:07:18  <DorpsGek> frosch123: Error: unsupported operand type(s) for &: 'float' and 'float'
21:07:40  <glx> the new code does the same in the end, it's a ||
21:08:29  <glx> the only difference is the meaning of the thing compared to 0
21:08:52  <frosch123> it's fine for a codechange :)
21:08:56  <glx> but 0x20 == 0 and 0x2 == 0 are both false
21:08:57  <TrueBrain> I think nobody is doubting that 2 != 32, but why 32 == 0 is different from 2 == 0
21:10:00  <LordAro> regardless of whatever the hell is going on, before i changed the code that if block was not getting triggered for this test grf
21:10:24  <LordAro> so it was still using the "broken" 0x02 / 0x20 size
21:10:32  <LordAro> after, it was using the default 0x11
21:11:14  <glx> weird, I see no reason for that in old or new code
21:14:15  <frosch123> LordAro: https://godbolt.org/z/nvTT498K5 <- happy now?
21:14:46  <frosch123> i'll stop now, it's too silly to discuss
21:16:19  <TrueBrain> Msys bug? Would be cool :D
21:18:38  <glx> 0C prop is 22 in NFO, nmlc output is correct
21:21:02  <Rubidium> https://godbolt.org/z/5E1EMzxKr <- I have reordered the statements of the New function, and that yields the same assembly for the old and the new code (with O3)
21:22:49  <Rubidium> (or basically any -Ox except -O0)
21:24:36  <glx> crash_test.grf doesn't set prop 0C at all, so it's expected to not enter this block
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21:26:41  <LordAro> have i confused the transmitter object for the rocks object?
21:26:55  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on issue #9527: [Crash]: NewGRF with multi-tile object causes OpenTTD 12.0-beta2 to crash on map generation https://git.io/JEH61
21:33:47  <glx> anyway regarding #8276, nmlc should error if object size is not set
21:34:13  <LordAro> there's already an issue about it :p
21:34:44  <glx> ah yes there is
21:35:03  <glx> well I have a "broken" nml file, I should trace it
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21:40:42  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro updated pull request #9529: Fix #9527: Crash when trying to place multitile objects at map edge https://git.io/JEQ2c
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22:46:06  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] panosalevropoulos commented on issue #9384: Include copyright notice in license https://git.io/JnE3D
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23:57:09  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #8719: Fix #8276: Crash when a NewGRF object's size was not set https://git.io/JEQ5N
23:58:16  <glx> reading asm is fun, but I still prefer high level languages

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