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https://i.imgur.com/rhIxkK3.png 10:48:37 <Samu> house growth on that tile made the ship become stuck 10:51:03 <Timberwolf> This has been happening to me a bit in my West Country 90201 game, where I have ships in the little channel between Bristol and Clifton and houses keep getting foundationed into the water. 10:51:33 <Timberwolf> It's obviously a lot more common in a channel, because the ship doesn't have to be on the tile to get blocked. 10:54:02 <LordAro> how is it blocked there? can't ships approach/leave from multiple directions? 10:56:10 <Samu> i think i had a patch to prevent this from happening, have to search for it 10:57:00 <Samu> but not sure if it would detect this edge case 11:04:27 *** Etua has quit IRC 11:04:38 *** Etua has joined #openttd 11:07:18 <andythenorth> Timberwolf I hope you have included the Clifton Rocks Railway 11:07:26 <andythenorth> oh we don't have 'underground funicular' 11:07:27 <andythenorth> hmm 11:23:35 <Samu> here it is, rebased to todays https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/compare/master...SamuXarick:EnsureNoShipFromDiagDirs?expand=1 11:23:45 <Samu> testing it 11:24:29 <Samu> it was so old it still had NULL's 11:39:19 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] mwkaicz opened issue #9554: [Bug]: Signal Lights logic problem https://git.io/JuQHR 11:42:29 *** virtualrandomnumber has joined #openttd 11:42:50 *** virtualrandomnumber has quit IRC 11:53:56 <FLHerne> Timberwolf: yours is https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/9317 11:54:18 <FLHerne> Samu's is a bit different, because it's not blocking access in general, just that particular ship 12:00:05 *** andythenorth has left #openttd 12:12:42 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 12:12:42 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 12:18:54 *** roadt_ has quit IRC 12:19:19 *** tokai has quit IRC 12:21:55 *** glx has joined #openttd 12:21:55 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 12:22:47 *** roadt_ has joined #openttd 12:25:39 <Samu> debug mode with ai running is slow :( 12:27:59 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on issue #9554: [Bug]: Signal Lights logic problem https://git.io/JuQHR 12:30:54 <glx> debug mode is slow without any ai for me 12:31:25 <Samu> 10 more years 12:40:35 <Samu> 2 more years 12:42:30 *** NGC3982 has quit IRC 12:48:12 <Samu> it triggered! it works! 12:48:19 <Samu> house isn't built 12:57:31 <Samu> it's been rejected in the past https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/6935 12:58:03 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] mwkaicz commented on issue #9554: [Bug]: Signal Lights logic problem https://git.io/JuQHR 13:00:43 *** NGC3982 has joined #openttd 13:37:40 *** roadt_ has quit IRC 13:39:16 *** roadt_ has joined #openttd 13:42:14 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 13:45:49 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 13:46:36 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 13:47:05 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd 14:55:51 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Strudders79 opened issue #9555: [Crash]: Fatal Application Failure on startup https://git.io/Ju7Da 14:58:20 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Strudders79 commented on issue #9555: [Crash]: Fatal Application Failure on startup https://git.io/Ju7Da 15:01:32 *** Etua has quit IRC 15:04:03 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on issue #9555: [Crash]: Fatal Application Failure on startup https://git.io/Ju7Da 15:04:06 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 closed issue #9555: [Crash]: Fatal Application Failure on startup https://git.io/Ju7Da 15:13:34 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #9555: [Crash]: Fatal Application Failure on startup https://git.io/Ju7Da 15:14:04 <LordAro> i suppose it's not worth it to try to blacklist that driver? 15:25:29 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Strudders79 commented on issue #9555: [Crash]: Fatal Application Failure on startup https://git.io/Ju7Da 15:38:05 *** Etua has joined #openttd 16:00:42 *** Etua has quit IRC 16:06:15 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 16:07:35 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 16:08:17 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 16:08:30 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 16:08:58 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd 16:09:40 <Samu> road to 5000's https://i.imgur.com/WLIiqhm.png 16:10:14 <Samu> already 5000 aircraft in some companies 16:10:28 <Samu> ships are harder to mass though 16:11:29 *** _aD has joined #openttd 16:12:27 *** Progman has joined #openttd 16:38:52 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 16:54:26 <andythenorth> yo 16:55:10 <andythenorth> so OpenGFX needs uploading to bananas https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenGFX#46-making-an-opengfx-release 16:55:36 <andythenorth> seems I can do that on my bananas account 16:58:24 <LordAro> https://twitter.com/peter_szilagyi/status/1437646118700175360 16:58:31 <LordAro> "Between the 3 Sept and 10 Sept, secure env vars of *all* public @travisci repositories were injected into PR builds. Signing keys, access creds, API tokens." 16:58:34 <LordAro> oh dear. 16:59:03 <andythenorth> oh dear 17:00:22 <andythenorth> hmm I need the opengfx artefact 17:00:27 <andythenorth> to upload to bananas 17:02:01 <LordAro> andythenorth: https://www.openttd.org/downloads/opengfx-releases/latest.html 17:02:16 <LordAro> i'm not actually sure whether that's linked to from anywhere 17:02:48 <andythenorth> I was trying to guess urls :) 17:03:46 <andythenorth> hmm the zip isn't accepted by bananas 17:05:31 <andythenorth> maybe it needs tared 17:13:12 <andythenorth> oh dear :) 17:13:14 <LordAro> is there not a reasonable error message? 17:13:41 <andythenorth> Could not recognise this file; possibly the extension is wrong 17:13:48 <andythenorth> the zip contains a tar 17:14:04 <andythenorth> but if I unzip the tar on the mac, macos unpacks the tar then deletes it 17:14:13 <LordAro> lol. 17:14:14 <andythenorth> so I don't get the tar file to upload to bananas 17:14:26 <andythenorth> anyone got winzip? :P 17:14:38 <LordAro> `unzip foo.zip` 17:14:45 <LordAro> from your nearest terminal 17:16:38 <andythenorth> "Something failed, sorry for the inconvenience" 17:16:42 <andythenorth> (bananas) 17:16:45 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 17:17:31 <andythenorth> I am good at breaking bananas 17:18:52 <andythenorth> dare I ping TB? :P 17:19:18 <LordAro> if you've caused an exception, he already has been :p 17:21:44 <andythenorth> FIRS also wasn't bananas compatible for ages :P 17:21:53 <andythenorth> it's quite lol that opengfx isn't though :) 17:28:47 <glx> you're good at breaking anything ;) 17:29:28 <andythenorth> I could have had a career in QA 17:30:21 *** OsteHovel has quit IRC 17:36:36 <TrueBrain> lol, you broke configparser 17:36:37 <TrueBrain> that is impressive 17:36:50 <glx> haha 17:37:08 <glx> nothing unbreakable 17:37:08 <TrueBrain> One of the translations fails parsing 17:37:49 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/team] georgyel opened issue #252: [bg_BG] Translator access request https://git.io/Ju5Rh 17:42:20 <TrueBrain> IT IS NOT ME! \o/ 17:42:25 <TrueBrain> OpenGFX fucked up :P 17:42:36 <TrueBrain> I would guess the release doesn't even load in-game? 17:43:06 <glx> oh so nmlc accepted broken stuff ? 17:43:07 <TrueBrain> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenGFX/blob/master/lang/latvian.lng <- someone added cases 17:43:14 <TrueBrain> and .. that ... is processed weirdly 17:43:25 <TrueBrain> https://gist.github.com/TrueBrain/ee87fca8b834edad7346e83fb2386d34 17:43:30 <TrueBrain> creates that in the obg file 17:43:34 <TrueBrain> which is not a valid ini file anymore :) 17:44:02 <TrueBrain> (updated gist, removed "^M") 17:44:04 <glx> oh ^M is \n 17:44:15 <TrueBrain> ignore that, that is my bad 17:44:36 <TrueBrain> updated, to give more context to the file 17:44:38 <glx> ha it's not an nmlc bug 17:44:40 <TrueBrain> so you can easier spot what is wrong 17:44:44 <glx> (that's nice) 17:45:01 <TrueBrain> I am happy we all found who not to blame :D 17:45:30 <glx> guess it's Makefile or a script called by Makefile 17:45:41 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 17:46:05 <TrueBrain> so I can fix the BaNaNaS bug, but the fix is to refuse the upload :) 17:46:43 <glx> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenGFX/blob/master/scripts/translations.sh <-- probably this one has a bug 17:47:15 <TrueBrain> I would also consider it a bug that eints allows to make cases for OpenGFX :P 17:47:19 <TrueBrain> doubt that is useful :) 17:48:20 <TrueBrain> "# make sure that we only write sensible stuff" <- how cute 17:48:57 *** jottyfan has quit IRC 17:49:06 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 17:49:26 <andythenorth> did we decide it was my fault? 17:49:34 <glx> I wonder how STR_GRF_DESCRIPTION.kas can pass validation, it doesn't match the original string format I think 17:50:27 <glx> oh there's no "special" commands, only colors and newline, and they are ignored 17:50:38 *** jottyfan has quit IRC 17:50:48 <glx> because they don't use any parameters 17:51:25 <TrueBrain> anyway, I guess nobody actually tested if OpenGFX works ingame? :D 17:51:49 <TrueBrain> found something to blame on andythenorth \o/ :P <3 17:52:12 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 17:52:57 *** jottyfan has quit IRC 17:55:47 <andythenorth> I think I declared that recently :P 17:55:56 <andythenorth> compile works, must be ok right? 17:57:29 <glx> ok confirmed it's translations.sh 17:57:35 <glx> will look into it later 18:01:58 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #9553: Change: Add configurable docking tile occupied penalty for NPF and YAPF https://git.io/Ju5av 18:02:01 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed pull request #9553: Change: Add configurable docking tile occupied penalty for NPF and YAPF https://git.io/JuSip 18:02:34 *** Flygon has quit IRC 18:03:56 <FLHerne> TrueBrain: In OpenTTD timescales, 18 months is pretty recent 18:04:14 <FLHerne> That's still "last release", isn't it? 18:04:17 <FLHerne> maybe n+1 18:04:27 <TrueBrain> "pretty recent" I would have accepted ;) 18:04:54 <FLHerne> Also, I don't get the objection 18:05:14 <FLHerne> pretty much every pathfinder cost for every transport mode is configurable 18:05:35 <FLHerne> including ones that no-one could ever want to change 18:05:42 <FLHerne> except that one, for some reason 18:05:49 <FLHerne> which someone _does_ want to change 18:06:51 *** Gustavo6046_ has joined #openttd 18:07:19 <FLHerne> It's a few lines of boilerplate code that Samu's already written, what's the cost? 18:07:32 <TrueBrain> round round we go 18:07:37 <TrueBrain> I sometimes wonder if we get dizzy ;) 18:07:47 <TrueBrain> but the general rule is: we do not add settings unless there is a good reason 18:07:53 <TrueBrain> 1 person wanting a setting, is not that reason :) 18:08:01 <TrueBrain> hence the last point, if someone can argue a good reason, we can look at it 18:08:31 <TrueBrain> and the cost is not zero, as the PR has some rough edges that needs fixing, etc etc 18:08:41 <TrueBrain> but by all means, pick it up, clean it up, give a good motivation, and lets goooooo 18:09:12 <FLHerne> How are you supposed to know if anyone else cares if you insta-close it? 18:09:27 <FLHerne> and no, clearly that hasn't been the policy for these config-only settings 18:09:39 <FLHerne> Why would anyone ever want to set the buoy penalty to not 2 18:09:48 <FLHerne> no-one has ever done that, nor will they ever 18:09:57 <TrueBrain> you are arguing with the wrong person. If you feel strongly about this, please comment in the PR, make a good motivation, clean it up, and everything is possible 18:10:04 <FLHerne> I didn't even know there *was* a buoy penalty 18:10:19 <TrueBrain> since I picked up OpenTTD in 2020 I have been told 10000 times not to add settings unless REALLY needed 18:10:40 <FLHerne> well, I only know about the PR because I was skimming the IRC log 18:10:57 <_dp_> it's hard to give any motivation for pathfinder settings as ideally no one should ever touch them 18:11:04 <_dp_> except mb for developing and debugging 18:11:24 <FLHerne> It's only been there 24 hours, and now it's closed which means no-one will ever see it again 18:11:30 <_dp_> otherwise it'll get pretty weird and confusing if everyone starts to run their own setitngs 18:11:51 <FLHerne> Yeah, I think the main purpose is to experiment with possible better defaults 18:12:06 <FLHerne> or people who want to really micromanage their trains as always 18:12:25 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 18:12:25 *** Gustavo6046_ is now known as Gustavo6046 18:13:30 <Xaroth> Messing with the PF is tricky even if you know what you're doing 18:14:02 <Xaroth> adding random settings to the PF is asking for tons of people making random suggestions on how to "fix" everything by tweaking settings that don't do what they think they do. 18:14:14 <FLHerne> TrueBrain: I don't have a strong opinion about the value of the setting, but I have an opinion against making one thing arbitrarily different from the others 18:14:32 <FLHerne> all the equivalent PF costs are settings, so it's weird that this one isn't 18:14:48 <TrueBrain> I would agree with you if he made ALL penalties a setting 18:14:56 <FLHerne> and given the other recent changes added them, that seems more like an oversight than a deliberate choice 18:14:58 <TrueBrain> he picked this one for a reason, and it is not the one you think ;) 18:15:18 <FLHerne> Not everyone who supports something has to have the same reason :p 18:15:33 <TrueBrain> again, people are free to motivate why they want to have it :) 18:16:26 <TrueBrain> but "I do not understand how the pathfinder works, and changing this value 'fixes my issue'" is the real motivation here :) 18:16:56 <TrueBrain> (feel free to browse the IRC logs back the last few weeks to understand why :D) 18:17:10 <FLHerne> Playing with settings can improve one's knowledge of what they do 18:17:19 <TrueBrain> and he has been doing that a lot already :) 18:17:24 <TrueBrain> doesn't need to be a setting to toy with it! 18:17:27 <FLHerne> I know there's that silly maximum-cost bug 18:18:36 <TrueBrain> but in this specific case, we indeed have been looking into if/how we can remove all pf settings 18:18:37 <TrueBrain> as it is more pain than gain 18:21:15 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #9543: Feature #9523: Display icon or text in vehicle list or in vehicle window indicating whether a vehicle is lost https://git.io/Ju5rP 18:21:25 <_aD> A closed issue doesn't disappear and doesn't necessarily mute any dissenting voices. 18:21:51 <FLHerne> ^ I love that one 18:21:56 <_aD> The number of options in the game already makes my head spin and I've been playing it for longer than I can remember. 18:22:15 <TrueBrain> there is a reason why we follow "do not add settings unless really needed" :P 18:22:28 <TrueBrain> during TTDp everything became a setting 18:22:28 <_aD> Amen. 18:22:58 <_aD> Presumably if one is that advanced a player, making changes to the code is a plausible alternative? 18:24:11 <TrueBrain> worded differently: "is there an audience for this setting?", is what I often wonder 18:24:32 <_aD> It's valid to take into account how well-informed the audience is, too. 18:24:46 <TrueBrain> but talking about PRs and opinions, as having PRs open for a long time doesn't mean anyone voices an opinion, how do we rate: https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/9325 ? 18:24:54 <_aD> If many of them want a change because of a misunderstanding, that diminishes the validity of their wishes. 18:29:35 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 18:30:48 <TrueBrain> codewise I am fine with that PR, and I do not see a reason not to accept it. But I wish we could collect some opinions on these things easier 18:30:53 <TrueBrain> they now often sit for months, without input 18:31:17 <TrueBrain> we really need a monthly stream with "rate my PR" section :P 18:31:48 <_dp_> 9325 feels like it tries to make it look a bit more like routes without actually making routes 18:32:01 <TrueBrain> yup. It is a bit of a start towards that 18:32:03 <_dp_> but it's burried so deep in the ui that it's kinda irrelevant 18:32:07 <_dp_> I'd rather see actual routes 18:32:09 <TrueBrain> doesn't seem to hurt existing workflows 18:32:35 <TrueBrain> I rather see a lot of things; but sometimes we have to take what we have :D 18:32:43 <TrueBrain> it might motivate him to continue this line of work 18:32:50 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 18:32:54 <TrueBrain> s/him/them/ 18:33:01 <_dp_> well, yeah, I guess... 18:34:06 <_dp_> it's just that I'm personally probably never going to use that feature so have no particular opinion 18:34:09 <_aD> For that one it seems that the submitter isn't grouping as they should. If I want to clone a train I am not immediately near I go Trains->Group->Clone one 18:35:54 <andythenorth> PR stream! 18:36:26 <TrueBrain> _aD: I think the motivation kinda explains that, that they are looking at a station window 18:36:58 <_aD> I guess so, but it's still only Trains->Group->Clone from there... 18:37:07 <TrueBrain> and finding back the station you are at :) 18:37:30 <TrueBrain> from what I understand, but please correct me if you see it differently, you are at a station with a surplus 18:37:33 <TrueBrain> and you want to scale up 18:37:44 <andythenorth> have we reached the limit yet of piling up things on sand? :) 18:38:07 <TrueBrain> going via Trains means you have to find the station back, I think? 18:38:13 <TrueBrain> (or the group you assigned to this line, ofc) 18:39:02 <_aD> Ah by Trains I mean the overall Trains window, not the one for a specific station. 18:39:09 <TrueBrain> exactly 18:39:14 <TrueBrain> sorry, I assumed you meant that :D 18:39:30 <_aD> so the station window stays as it is, one opens trains, clicks the group, clicks clone? 18:39:45 <TrueBrain> how do you quickly find the group? 18:40:04 <_aD> heh, I guess I play at a smaller scale, or more organised, than the OP. 18:40:20 <TrueBrain> :) 18:40:28 <_aD> I give my group names useful labels (albeit silly, because silly town is best town) 18:40:53 <TrueBrain> I find these PRs always a bit difficult .. fully aware only a small amount of players will discover the functionality on one hand 18:40:54 <_aD> Tanglewood Rapidfire Limes 18:41:06 <TrueBrain> on the other hand .. it might finally cause someone to tackle this issue :P 18:41:31 <_aD> Yeah, discovery is a big deal in a game without a walk-through. 18:41:56 <TrueBrain> but I do not like this PR has been open for this long .. and it gained 0 input in all those months .. hmm 18:41:58 <TrueBrain> toss-up? 18:42:23 <_aD> If no-one's even given it a +1 does that speak for itself? 18:42:40 <_aD> Or is that a poor metric for the audience? 18:42:44 <TrueBrain> if that was a KPI, I can close most PRs :) 18:42:48 <_aD> heh 18:42:54 <_aD> You're welcome! 18:43:02 <TrueBrain> there is a really low engagement on PRs :) 18:43:25 <_aD> Weird how some folk will write acres of arguments but the next day won't +1 something they like the look of. 18:44:03 <TrueBrain> GitHub is trying different things to get this done 18:44:09 <TrueBrain> but it is really difficult 18:44:09 <_dp_> _aD, wait, how do you even clone on a group? cloning needs a depot 18:44:13 <TrueBrain> even Discussions are .. so-so 18:44:27 <_aD> _dp_: I assumed the user has a depot open, since they weren't mentioned 18:44:38 <_dp_> ah 18:44:42 <TrueBrain> but yeah, we really need "routes" over orders 18:44:43 <_aD> TrueBrain: I guess that's the problem with decentralised communities. 18:44:48 <TrueBrain> as this becomes senseless .. 18:44:49 <_aD> Moar ActivityPub. 18:45:15 <TrueBrain> I still wonder if we can promote voting on PRs or something .. dunno 18:45:41 <_aD> OpenTTD seems to feature-complete to me, I wouldn't think to look at PRs. 18:45:45 <_aD> s/to/so/ 18:45:52 <TrueBrain> it kinda is, but yet it isn't 18:46:11 <TrueBrain> I was hoping adding "Preview" would really help 18:46:13 <TrueBrain> but it really hasn't 18:46:39 <_aD> Also for something like that specific PR, I wouldn't -1 it because I'm aware that people play at different scales. 18:47:14 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master https://git.io/Ju5iD 18:47:15 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators) 18:47:25 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain approved pull request #9325: Feature: Ctrl-Click on vehicle list in GB_SHARED_ORDERS opens order window https://git.io/Ju5iS 18:47:39 <TrueBrain> so we have 2 ~0, basically 18:47:42 <TrueBrain> I myself am also ~0 18:47:45 <TrueBrain> so lets approve it 18:47:56 <FLHerne> TrueBrain: 9325 would be really useful for me 18:48:09 <FLHerne> [sorry, I went to the shop before it closes in 10mins] 18:48:13 <TrueBrain> owh, a +1, well, that settles it even more :) 18:48:23 <TrueBrain> FLHerne: I appreciate the opinion :) 18:49:41 <FLHerne> Also, I kind of agree with _dp_ that (a) it's a step toward unifying groups and orders (b) actually doing that would be great 18:49:54 <FLHerne> but in the meantime this is better than the status quo 18:50:21 <TrueBrain> "Returns false when a buoy was placed on the tile." <- this is the wrong tense, not? 18:50:29 <FLHerne> *shared orders 18:50:37 <TrueBrain> (as in, it suggests it no longer has to be placed on the tile) 18:51:22 <FLHerne> Is that a function that places a buoy? 18:51:26 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8390: Add: [AI/GS] Missing water related functions and objects https://git.io/Ju5PZ 18:51:38 <TrueBrain> let me just add it to the PR, makes it easier for more-native-english-speakers to disagree with me :D 18:51:40 <FLHerne> I'd read it with its presumably-intended meaning, but I can see why it might be confusing 18:52:53 <FLHerne> Ah, that isn't what it is 18:52:58 <FLHerne> so yes I agree with you 18:53:10 <FLHerne> Also, that feels like a needless gotcha 18:53:30 <FLHerne> It's a brand-new function, can't it just not have a weird unintuitive special-case 18:53:31 <TrueBrain> it kinda is 18:53:34 <FLHerne> I should comment on the PR 18:53:40 <TrueBrain> it is not a brand new function 18:53:44 <TrueBrain> it is an existing one 18:54:02 <TrueBrain> the function should have been called: IsClearWaterTile, I guess :) 18:54:15 <TrueBrain> also returns false for docks, and .... :P 18:54:20 <TrueBrain> but I get why it can be weird 18:54:32 <TrueBrain> it is funny how we just flipped roles :D 18:56:09 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick dismissed a review for pull request #8390: Add: [AI/GS] Missing water related functions and objects https://git.io/JuyGg 18:56:12 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #8390: Add: [AI/GS] Missing water related functions and objects https://git.io/JLnqJ 18:57:34 <FLHerne> Oh, right, I just spotted that while trying to write a comment 18:58:00 <FLHerne> False for docks makes sense, you can't sail through them 18:58:04 <FLHerne> how about ship depots? 18:58:24 <TrueBrain> I would assume it is only True on clear tiles 18:58:30 <TrueBrain> which might be the better way to explain this 18:58:42 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain approved pull request #8390: Add: [AI/GS] Missing water related functions and objects https://git.io/Ju5XG 18:58:55 <TrueBrain> but we can spend hours on making the wording better .. maybe we should just do a pass some day over all the documentation 18:59:28 <TrueBrain> (I spotted many more issues .. for example the lack of "iff" :P) 18:59:43 <TrueBrain> sometimes I touch these things, look at it close, and go: step away now .. sllloooowwwwllllyyyyy 19:00:22 <andythenorth> most things everywhere are....awful 19:00:32 <andythenorth> and yet the world keeps singing along just fine 19:01:11 <_dp_> landscape stuff and water in particular is such a mess... 19:01:39 <_dp_> there is MP_WATER and there is ... not MP_WATER with hacked in water flags %) 19:01:40 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #9531: [Crash]: Switching between monitors in fullscreen https://git.io/JEb77 19:01:43 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed issue #9531: [Crash]: Switching between monitors in fullscreen https://git.io/JEb77 19:04:43 <_aD> MP_DAMP 19:05:23 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #9543: Feature #9523: Display icon or text in vehicle list or in vehicle window indicating whether a vehicle is lost https://git.io/Ju51l 19:06:04 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] FLHerne commented on pull request #8390: Add: [AI/GS] Missing water related functions and objects https://git.io/Ju51u 19:10:07 <Samu> heh, the problem with water tiles.... 19:10:55 *** Strom has quit IRC 19:11:05 <Samu> nothing is as obvious, needs to be tested out for sure 19:11:44 *** Strom has joined #openttd 19:11:58 <Samu> I added to regression tests for those cases where there's ship depots, buoys, etc 19:13:23 <Samu> https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/43006711/104127729-b6447080-535b-11eb-9bbb-496ac9534821.png 19:14:56 <Samu> regression tests IsWaterTile() IsRiverTile() IsCanalTile() IsCoastTile() in all those tiles in the screenshot 19:14:57 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on discussion #9551: Vehicle orders GUI: Learning from other games https://git.io/JuKCH 19:15:26 <Samu> oh, IsSeaTile() too 19:17:02 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #9543: Feature #9523: Display icon or text in vehicle list or in vehicle window indicating whether a vehicle is lost https://git.io/Ju5Mx 19:18:48 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #9543: Feature #9523: Display icon or text in vehicle list or in vehicle window indicating whether a vehicle is lost https://git.io/Ju5Dt 19:19:39 <TrueBrain> Samu: not sure what others think, but I fully expected the icon to remain even after the route was fixed .. that is just how OpenTTD works :D 19:19:46 <TrueBrain> the news also remains despite the route being fixed 19:19:57 <TrueBrain> for me that really is not an issue .. but others might disagree :) 19:20:24 <TrueBrain> having some indication is already widely better than nothing, even if it can be there while the route is fixed :) 19:20:59 <TrueBrain> the only solution I can think of, is if we change to a type of pathfinder where we calculate the track "tree", so we know what is connected to where in a graph 19:21:04 <TrueBrain> and a change to a junction can update instant 19:21:13 <TrueBrain> but ... that is not something that will happen this year :P 19:23:57 <FLHerne> TrueBrain: I think it's a bug that the news doesn't vanish too 19:24:07 <FLHerne> but yeah, even with this bug it's a big improvement 19:24:19 <TrueBrain> it is a missing feature, I agree :P 19:24:24 <TrueBrain> just a strong limitation of the pathfinder 19:24:51 <Timberwolf> Sanity check - https://i.imgur.com/4vn27qb.png - in PBS (pbs.cpp line 448) the train in red won't reserve a path to the signal unless that highlighted tile has no reservations. Am I correct in thinking this is because a train can unreserve the tile it's leaving while the last wagon is still partially in the tile, so to get a truly safe waiting place you need the tile *beyond* the one you want to stop 19:24:57 <Timberwolf> in to be free? 19:25:10 <_dp_> train stops being lost when it finds a path, not when tracks are "fixed", train may be on the other side of the map by that point 19:25:27 <_dp_> also would be very helpful if it also showed somewhere exact tile where it became lost 19:25:33 <TrueBrain> Timberwolf: asking the real questions, aren't we 19:25:38 <_dp_> but, yeah, any indication is better than no idication 19:26:24 <FLHerne> Timberwolf: I think it's more that there's no distinction between different reservations 19:26:38 <FLHerne> a track bit is either reserved or not 19:27:17 <Timberwolf> Right, so you don't know if it's reserved because something is trying to enter that tile, and you might get a crash if you don't stop before it. 19:27:21 <FLHerne> so if it was allowed to reserve a path, they'd effectively merge into one long reservation and your trains would crash 19:27:33 <FLHerne> (this is a good way to crash things when doing build-while-paused) 19:27:56 <Timberwolf> Ah! So if I'm guessing correct, you need a break between reservations for a train to know this is "my" reservation? 19:28:05 <FLHerne> I think so? 19:28:11 <FLHerne> but maybe it's what you said :p 19:28:22 <FLHerne> ask someone competent 19:28:24 <TrueBrain> Timberwolf: I think we all say the same here, but worded differently: that yellow train could be standing still, and reverse, and if the red train would wait for the highlighted tile, it can crash into each other, I think. 19:28:38 <FLHerne> maybe what we both said 19:29:01 <Timberwolf> Yep, I've definitely observed that if the trains are in certain positions when reversing if you change that check. 19:29:16 <TrueBrain> which is one of those quirks in OpenTTD 19:29:24 <TrueBrain> that even without leaving your tile, you can crash into a train on another tile 19:29:42 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 19:29:48 <TrueBrain> many of those issues have been fixed over the years 19:29:51 <TrueBrain> doubt they all have been fixed :P 19:29:54 *** jottyfan has quit IRC 19:30:15 <TrueBrain> so I -assume- the "needs to be an unreserved tile between" is because of that 19:30:33 <Timberwolf> That's consistent with what I've seen playing around. 19:30:34 <TrueBrain> huge assumption, mind you :) 19:30:47 <TrueBrain> it could have used a comment :P 19:31:19 <_dp_> there is also that thing with signals that they're placed on a tile, not between 19:31:24 <TrueBrain> I believe the issue is, a red light prevents a train from entering a tile. Ideal, you would stop it like 2 or 3 pixels before that 19:31:41 <_dp_> so there is no clear distiction when train actually passes the signal 19:31:53 <_dp_> makes reversing and stuff trickier 19:33:46 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #9543: Feature #9523: Display icon or text in vehicle list or in vehicle window indicating whether a vehicle is lost https://git.io/Ju5yS 19:33:57 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain approved pull request #9543: Feature #9523: Display icon or text in vehicle list or in vehicle window indicating whether a vehicle is lost https://git.io/Ju5y9 19:34:03 <TrueBrain> cheers Samu 19:35:15 <TrueBrain> just imagine if we change that trains stop a few pixels before signals .. how many savegames will just blow up :D 19:35:28 <TrueBrain> too bad these kind of changes are nearly impossible to make now after-the-fact :) 19:35:40 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 19:36:01 <FLHerne> well, you could add a setting and apply it only to new games 19:36:10 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd 19:36:11 <TrueBrain> :P 19:36:13 <FLHerne> but then OTTD would have to implement the old behaviour forever 19:36:19 <TrueBrain> so much irony in that comment :D I love it :) 19:36:22 <_dp_> just switch to 3d map :p 19:36:28 <TrueBrain> and yeah, technical debt is a thing :) 19:36:38 <FLHerne> and you only *just* deleted the 1. from the version 19:36:42 <_dp_> not that it will fix anything but noone will notice these tiny bugs amid the huge ones xD 19:36:44 <TrueBrain> I really considered making TrueTTD (not with that name :P), which just removes a shitton of old code 19:36:52 <TrueBrain> which is NOT backwards compatible with ALL savegames 19:37:11 <TrueBrain> so removing NPF etc 19:37:20 <TrueBrain> just .. because ... it becomes so impossible to maintain all that crap :P 19:37:32 <FLHerne> You could probably do that now 19:37:56 <FLHerne> There have been 'game-breaking' changes before for people relying on particularly niche things 19:38:02 <_dp_> openttd 2.0, oh, wait... :p 19:38:21 <TrueBrain> I think I had enough people yelling at me for 1 year, thank you very much :) 19:39:08 <FLHerne> I mean, if you keep interpreting the version as semver, 7.0 is the first release in a decade that's allowed to break everything 19:39:18 <_dp_> I'd very much like to see all the old crap gone but not the one I'm still using xDD 19:39:25 <TrueBrain> FLHerne: lol 19:40:10 <TrueBrain> and seriously: fuck semver :P 19:40:13 <TrueBrain> the idea is nice for libraries 19:40:19 <TrueBrain> anything else ... I just don't understand it 19:40:23 <TrueBrain> I really do not 19:40:41 <TrueBrain> "I added this cool new feature .. wait, I cannot bump the major, as it is not a breaking change ... HOLD MY BEER" 19:43:20 <FLHerne> TrueBrain: How about you just delete everything, but bundle an OTTD 1.12.x executable with every build 19:43:28 <FLHerne> and swap between them when loading old saves 19:43:47 <FLHerne> There are definitely enterprise applications that do this :D 19:43:52 <_dp_> 2 games for same price! xD 19:44:12 <TrueBrain> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7981 19:44:24 <TrueBrain> that could honestly solve that issue for sure :) 19:45:53 <TrueBrain> right, enough OpenTTD for one evening .. few things left for 12.0 milestone 19:47:24 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/team] georgyel closed issue #252: [bg_BG] Translator access request https://git.io/Ju5Rh 19:47:41 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/team] georgyel commented on issue #252: [bg_BG] Translator access request https://git.io/Ju5Rh 19:47:59 <TrueBrain> lol, that is a first :) 19:53:08 <FLHerne> I wonder why 19:55:11 <_dp_> hm, I just thought of an interesting idea - make core game mechanics modular and swappable, so one could use latest ui but keep old mechanics for an old save or game mode 19:55:24 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #8390: Add: [AI/GS] Missing water related functions and objects https://git.io/Ju5Hu 19:55:25 <_dp_> may be more trouble than it's worth though 19:56:14 <TrueBrain> WASM plugin system? Wait, we are going in circles :P 19:56:54 <_dp_> who's going in circles? I never went anywhere from the WASM :p 19:57:00 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 19:58:33 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #9556: Fix: add back 'Spectate' option to company toolbar menu https://git.io/Ju5HF 19:58:53 <TrueBrain> I was browsing through JGRPP; so useful sometimes :) 19:59:36 <TrueBrain> wtf @ that table Samu 19:59:41 <TrueBrain> I understand your note even more now 19:59:53 <TrueBrain> like, seriously, wtf have we been smoking 20:00:20 <TrueBrain> tnx for doing that work! 20:01:45 <_dp_> that table seems to miss MP_INDUSTRY, MP_STATION and MP_OBJECT that can also have water class... 20:02:12 <TrueBrain> I think Samu showed sufficiently it is a mess :) Not sure we need to pile it further :P 20:02:48 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 20:02:50 <_dp_> well, I knew that even without a table :p 20:03:13 <TrueBrain> the beauty of writing things down .. now lots of people can read up on it :) 20:04:22 <_dp_> it's actualy even more of a mess if you look at it from newgrf pov 20:04:35 <_dp_> there is stuff like OBJ_FLAG_DRAW_WATER that only works for full water tiles... 20:04:35 <TrueBrain> hmm .. is #8390 a Feature or an Add .. hmm 20:05:41 <TrueBrain> seems Add is most common for these changes 20:06:25 <TrueBrain> Samu: name a number between 1 and 2 20:06:43 <Samu> 2 20:06:57 <TrueBrain> Feature it is 20:06:59 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8390: Add: [AI/GS] Missing water related functions and objects https://git.io/JLnqJ 20:09:16 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 20:10:04 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #9543: Feature #9523: Display icon or text in vehicle list or in vehicle window indicating whether a vehicle is lost https://git.io/Juq19 20:10:19 <TrueBrain> that PR is just really cool, really happy we have that now 20:10:27 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed issue #9523: [Bug]: "ship is lost" is only reported via news https://git.io/JEimw 20:11:52 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 20:13:22 <TrueBrain> hmm .. #9524 is very difficult to verify .. 20:13:22 <TrueBrain> would be nice to have for 12.0 20:13:38 *** gelignite has quit IRC 20:16:27 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #9398: Fix: [Squirrel] Enforce comma usage in function calls https://git.io/Ju55I 20:19:54 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenGFX] glx22 opened pull request #74: Fix: ignore cases in translations https://git.io/Ju55R 20:20:13 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #9011: Feature: make NewGRF active list react on key presses https://git.io/Ju550 20:21:02 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenGFX] TrueBrain approved pull request #74: Fix: ignore cases in translations https://git.io/Ju55g 20:21:12 <TrueBrain> YOLO approve best approve, right? 20:21:55 <glx> at least I ran the script in wsl and output seems correct (better than before) 20:22:06 <TrueBrain> \o/ 20:22:50 *** roadt_ has quit IRC 20:23:08 <glx> I wonder if obg generation in openttd is also broken for cases 20:25:28 *** roadt_ has joined #openttd 20:27:26 <TrueBrain> OpenMSX, OpenSFX, ... :D 20:27:52 <TrueBrain> guess after release 7.1, we should pull 7.0 from the CDN? Don't know what OpenTTD actual does with a broken ini file honestly 20:29:30 <TrueBrain> right, poked discord for the title screen competition 20:30:17 <TrueBrain> "You got a thumbs up rating on the announcement simply by using the word 'thrice' Bravo!" <- I love Steam :) 20:31:00 <TrueBrain> https://steamcommunity.com/app/1536610/discussions/0/3040481812849433604/ 20:31:01 <TrueBrain> :D 20:31:29 <Samu> nice, I can finally get CANAL cost for my AI 20:31:51 <TrueBrain> \o/ 20:31:57 <Samu> beta3 soon? 20:33:36 <TrueBrain> I think we go to RC soon 20:34:09 <TrueBrain> few more bugs to fix .. still hoping someone picks up the language one :) 20:34:42 <TrueBrain> and we need to look into the reservation bug and depots 20:35:16 <TrueBrain> and find a good way to validate #9524 and #9410 .. which is difficult, as that touches parts of the code that are scary 20:37:58 <glx> openttd doesn't mind the wrong obg 20:38:06 <glx> just tested 20:38:44 <_dp_> lol, what's so special about word 'thrice'? 20:38:49 <_dp_> I just used the first word that came to mind xD 20:41:19 *** nielsm has quit IRC 20:41:29 <Samu> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pulls/SamuXarick down to 9 20:43:11 <Samu> #8514 is not missing intention btw 20:45:21 <Samu> #7918 was updated recently in august, I think it's now in a much saner state 20:46:12 <Samu> #8398 is meh... I can live without it, just me minor nitpicking at something 20:47:18 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] FLHerne commented on pull request #8390: Add: [AI/GS] Missing water related functions and objects https://git.io/Ju5N2 20:48:26 <_aD> Samu: 9461 permantent rivers is an intersting one. I always try to preserve them for aesthetic reasons and like the idea that one has to bomb them to remove them. 20:48:47 <_aD> (I do not advise putting tents on rivers, permanent or otherwise) 20:51:22 <_aD> TrueBrain: "An alternative I can imagine, is that we do some fluid-mechanics" 20:51:30 * andythenorth removes rivers as policy 20:51:30 <_aD> Oh boy, there be dragons. 20:51:40 * _aD removes policies with rivers 20:51:42 <andythenorth> they're just in the way 20:52:02 <_aD> I am a bit of a masochist and like them for the challenge. 20:52:47 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenGFX] glx22 merged pull request #74: Fix: ignore cases in translations https://git.io/Ju55R 20:54:36 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Of course they're in the way that's the point :p 20:54:48 <andythenorth> we what now? 20:54:55 <andythenorth> they're just there for boats no? 20:55:02 <_dp_> I don't like that 8461 makes them more annoying even with setting off 20:55:13 <andythenorth> such boats 20:55:35 <_dp_> othewise looks like an interesting feature I planned to try making rivers permanent myself 20:56:01 <FLHerne> andythenorth: nah, they're a bit useless for boats IMO 20:56:15 <FLHerne> I keep trying with those little narrowboat things in squid 20:56:16 <_dp_> yeah, since boats can't climb them 20:56:18 <FLHerne> but they never go where I want 20:56:23 <andythenorth> you had me a "they're a bit useless" :) 20:56:26 <FLHerne> and adding locks is expensive 20:56:42 <FLHerne> so their main purpose is to make building railway lines more difficult 20:56:44 <andythenorth> and occupies too much space 20:56:50 <andythenorth> locks are 3 tiles 20:56:53 <andythenorth> such bad idea 20:56:58 <FLHerne> which is good, because I like having to build railway lines around things 20:57:14 <FLHerne> Perhaps boats should be able to set a "can climb slopes" flag? 20:57:19 <FLHerne> then little ones could have it 20:57:33 <FLHerne> but then players would be even more confused than they already are 20:57:55 <FLHerne> probably bad feature 20:58:33 <Samu> :) 20:58:56 <andythenorth> boats on rapids 20:59:00 <andythenorth> FTW 20:59:18 <andythenorth> patch for next livestream pls 21:03:48 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 21:04:23 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 21:05:00 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenSFX] glx22 opened pull request #42: Codechange: apply same chnages as OpenGFX#74 https://git.io/Ju5xr 21:06:25 <_aD> how can Ubuntu make core dumping so difficult? 21:06:34 <_aD> It's all meant to be so simple! 21:07:33 <andythenorth> oof so sleep 21:07:38 <andythenorth> such needed 21:07:44 <andythenorth> much tired 21:07:52 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenSFX] glx22 updated pull request #42: Codechange: apply same chnages as OpenGFX#74 https://git.io/Ju5xr 21:08:56 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 21:13:47 <michi_cc> Timberwolf: Bit late, but yes, reservations may not touch as e.g. trains driving at each other might otherwise cancel the reservation of the other train. 21:14:00 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenSFX] TrueBrain commented on pull request #42: Codechange: apply same chnages as OpenGFX#74 https://git.io/Ju5pR 21:16:20 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenSFX] glx22 commented on pull request #42: Codechange: apply same changes as OpenGFX#74 https://git.io/Ju5pX 21:16:42 <_dp_> michi_cc, can't that be fixed with just one extra bit marking final reservation tiles? 21:16:58 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenSFX] glx22 updated pull request #42: Codechange: apply same changes as OpenGFX#74 https://git.io/Ju5xr 21:17:33 <michi_cc> _dp_: PR's welcome, but making that fool-proof in all cases included mixed path/block signals and stuff is hard. 21:17:49 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenSFX] TrueBrain approved pull request #42: Codechange: apply same changes as OpenGFX#74 https://git.io/Ju5pd 21:18:17 <_aD> I seem to be following a list of unhelpful guides to get a stacktrace, would anyone care to point me in the right direction? 21:19:13 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenSFX] glx22 merged pull request #42: Codechange: apply same changes as OpenGFX#74 https://git.io/Ju5xr 21:26:55 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenMSX] glx22 opened pull request #23: Codechange: apply same changes as OpenGFX#74 https://git.io/Ju5hA 21:36:31 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 21:36:42 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd 21:37:08 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 21:45:40 *** Tirili has joined #openttd 21:47:49 *** Samu has quit IRC 21:49:33 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #9398: Fix: [Squirrel] Enforce comma usage in function calls https://git.io/Judvm 21:49:36 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 closed pull request #9398: Fix: [Squirrel] Enforce comma usage in function calls https://git.io/JnFcs 21:52:19 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenMSX] TrueBrain approved pull request #23: Codechange: apply same changes as OpenGFX#74 https://git.io/Judvu 21:53:04 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenMSX] glx22 merged pull request #23: Codechange: apply same changes as OpenGFX#74 https://git.io/Ju5hA 22:21:55 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 22:55:02 *** Progman has quit IRC 22:59:50 *** Tirili has quit IRC 23:44:37 *** Gustavo6046_ has joined #openttd 23:47:45 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 23:47:45 *** Gustavo6046_ is now known as Gustavo6046