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09:12:59 *** Etua has joined #openttd 10:58:23 *** esselfe has quit IRC 10:58:48 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 10:58:48 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 11:27:20 <Samu> damn, my ai triggered too long to save again 11:57:11 *** Etua has quit IRC 12:16:55 *** glx has joined #openttd 12:16:55 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 12:19:10 <FLHerne> Is it intended that trying to add an order via a station of the wrong kind is silently ignored? 12:20:44 <FLHerne> If I have a bus and click on a lorry bay, there's a "Message: Can't insert new order ... vehicle can't go to that station" 12:21:02 <FLHerne> but if I click on a rail station or airport it just does nothing 12:40:40 *** tokai has joined #openttd 12:40:40 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 12:47:32 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 12:47:40 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 12:58:54 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 13:08:05 <glx> FLHerne: but it bus and lorry bay are in the same station it should be accepted 13:08:09 <glx> *if 13:17:19 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 13:17:56 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 13:26:47 *** Etua has joined #openttd 13:27:18 <orudge> Hah, some interesting spam, we can advertise OpenTTD at my local supermarket 13:43:21 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 13:55:28 <FLHerne> glx: yes, that's fine 13:56:10 <FLHerne> What I'm questioning is that there's no message for incompatible stations that are of a totally different vehicle type 13:56:56 <glx> probably checks, but return default error, so no message 13:57:14 <FLHerne> If I send, say, a bus to an airport, should there not also be a "vehicle can't go to that station" message? 13:57:25 <FLHerne> I should probably file an issue 14:02:25 *** _aD has joined #openttd 14:45:32 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 14:45:33 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 14:52:28 *** Etua has quit IRC 14:52:30 *** tokai has quit IRC 14:57:55 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 15:00:16 <LordAro> FLHerne: i'd say that's an issue, yeah 15:00:28 <LordAro> probably trigially fixablw 15:00:29 <LordAro> e 15:05:18 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 15:08:49 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 15:34:32 *** Progman has joined #openttd 15:38:03 *** Flygon has quit IRC 15:39:04 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/eints] nielsmh opened issue #49: "String editing Manual" link is dead https://git.io/Jzxlp 16:22:46 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 16:25:09 *** esselfe has joined #openttd 16:37:41 <TrueBrain> https://blog.cloudflare.com/introducing-r2-object-storage/ 16:37:47 <TrueBrain> That opens up possibilities 16:38:21 <LordAro> what sort of possibilities? 16:40:08 <TrueBrain> No more OVH VPSes 16:40:09 <glx> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/compare/master...glx22:strgen_hack <-- it was just to test if it could work, but it's really a hack 16:40:18 <TrueBrain> CDN cost down with .. a lot 16:40:36 <TrueBrain> Cloudsaves? 16:42:08 <TrueBrain> Our whole CDN on R2 would cost 2 euro a month 16:42:17 <LordAro> oho 16:42:22 <TrueBrain> Vs the current ... 50? 16:42:47 <glx> oh more room for TURN users :) 16:42:54 <TrueBrain> Yes 16:43:13 <TrueBrain> Wiki cache rate is 30% 16:43:19 <TrueBrain> That is really low 16:43:54 <TrueBrain> Will need to see how to increase that .. First means I need to check what isn't being cached :D 16:50:21 <nielsm> TrueBrain: are these env vars documented anywhere? https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/src/network/core/config.cpp 16:51:00 <TrueBrain> No clue, didn't add them :p 16:52:02 <glx> don't think they are documented, but they were mentionned in PRs when tests were done on staging 16:52:49 <TrueBrain> They for sure are meant for dev only ofc ;) 16:54:14 <glx> and they are connection strings, so can contain the port too (not very explicit in the default values) 17:01:51 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 17:01:54 <andythenorth> yo 17:02:43 <andythenorth> in "everyday is a school day" epsiode #15823 17:02:50 <andythenorth> Google Chat is actually ok 17:02:58 <andythenorth> so either hell froze over, or I'm hallucinating 17:03:10 <andythenorth> clearly on topic for this channel 17:12:41 <TrueBrain> right, some better stats about our wiki .. 142k page requests a day .. 3GB of data 17:14:15 <TrueBrain> 50% of that are png files :D 17:14:31 <TrueBrain> well, page-wise 17:14:32 <TrueBrain> bandwidth, I don't know :) 17:17:04 <andythenorth> is that now CF-ed? 17:18:29 <TrueBrain> yup 17:18:41 <TrueBrain> too bad we don't have a Pro account (yet?) so I cannot see real webtraffic stats :P 17:20:35 <andythenorth> you going to buy one? 17:22:01 <TrueBrain> if this works out, we should 17:23:09 <andythenorth> anyone used this? https://snyk.io/ 17:23:15 * andythenorth on a shopping expedition 17:23:36 <andythenorth> front page is a bit animated wizzy 17:23:44 <andythenorth> other pages are better 17:29:05 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 17:34:15 <TrueBrain> right, lets start with increasing cache-time of images .. currently that is set to 5 minutes 17:34:19 <TrueBrain> as you might change them 17:34:25 <TrueBrain> but .. in reality that RARELY happens 17:34:29 <TrueBrain> so .. yeah, screw that :P 17:36:21 <nielsm> if an image really needs to change, upload the new one with a new name and update the pages, duh 17:36:34 <nielsm> (updating the pages being the hard part) 17:38:29 <nielsm> but does CF ever call the origin server back before cache expiry with conditional fetch headers (so you can just send it a "not modified" response back)? 17:39:16 <TrueBrain> that is a difficult question to answer, as it is yes and no :) 17:39:27 <TrueBrain> we send a public, max-age=N header on uploads 17:39:34 <TrueBrain> we also send a last-modified 17:39:49 <TrueBrain> N is 300 17:39:59 <TrueBrain> with the assumption most people browse around for like 5 minutes on the wiki 17:40:09 <TrueBrain> during tha ttime, the browser keeps the images in the cache 17:40:18 <TrueBrain> now with CF in front of it, it means CF caches that image for 5 minutes 17:40:29 <andythenorth> does it cache admin edits? 17:40:34 <TrueBrain> after that, it does a is-modified-since check 17:40:37 <TrueBrain> and does not refetch the image if the image was not changed 17:40:43 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 17:40:47 <andythenorth> cos otherwise we could be caching images on something much longer, like 24 hours 17:40:53 <TrueBrain> the downside is, that if you upload a new image, a hard reload doesn't change anything 17:40:55 <TrueBrain> where it did before 17:41:11 <TrueBrain> but so: no, CF does not check before max-age, but does a not-modified check after 17:41:25 <TrueBrain> "cache admin edits", wtf does that even mean? 17:42:44 <andythenorth> I mean if I am authed, and I upload a new image 17:42:52 <andythenorth> do I get a short TTL, or do I have to wait? 17:43:02 <TrueBrain> a new image is there instant 17:43:06 <TrueBrain> overwriting images is the thing 17:43:13 <andythenorth> yeah sorry, wrong words 17:43:16 <andythenorth> brain 17:44:01 <TrueBrain> the thing where I can see that CF is doing a good job, is with the 200 vs 301 rate 17:44:21 <TrueBrain> it used to be like: 70% 200, rest 304 (not 301, 304, oops) 17:44:28 <TrueBrain> now it is more like 50/50 17:44:53 <TrueBrain> and the HTML pages are never cached, so that sounds about right 17:45:39 <TrueBrain> the thing is .. we RARELY change images on our wiki 17:46:03 <TrueBrain> so 5 minute cache is just .. wasteful :P 17:46:07 <TrueBrain> 30 or 60 minutes would be better 17:46:18 <TrueBrain> but as you cannot force-reload the image, if someone would be to overwrite an existing 17:46:20 <TrueBrain> it would be confusing :P 17:46:21 <nielsm> if an image really does need to change then just upload it with a new name 17:46:31 <TrueBrain> the wiki allows overwriting with the same name atm 17:46:46 <TrueBrain> but honestly .. I have no issues dealing with 1 confused person in 20 years :P 17:47:05 <TrueBrain> nevertheless, it is a tradeoff :) 17:47:14 <nielsm> does CF have a way to force-flush its cache for the site? 17:47:25 <TrueBrain> for EVERYTHING, yes 17:47:42 <TrueBrain> well, no, I can also give 1 specific URL 17:47:44 <TrueBrain> but not wildcards 17:47:46 <nielsm> yeah just do that if there is a "catastrphic situation" where an image seriously needs to be changed right now 17:48:00 <TrueBrain> exactly 17:48:30 <TrueBrain> right, next victim to put in front of CF .. the main webpage .. :D 17:48:44 <TrueBrain> I have no clue how cache is configured there 17:49:12 <TrueBrain> only a last-modified header 17:51:01 <glx> website rarely changes, and changes happen on triggers so there should be a way to tell when to refresh cache 17:51:19 <TrueBrain> website changes daily :) 17:51:33 <TrueBrain> and "refresh cache" is either forget everything, or a very specific URL 17:51:37 <TrueBrain> so also not really practicle 17:51:40 <TrueBrain> practical? 17:51:42 <TrueBrain> what-ever :P 17:51:58 *** tokai has joined #openttd 17:51:58 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 17:52:09 <TrueBrain> I think I will just make it cache for an hour or something 17:52:18 <TrueBrain> would mean that if we post news, it can take up to an hour before everyone sees it 17:52:22 <TrueBrain> not sure that is a problem :P 17:52:38 <glx> that way we have time to catch typos ;) 17:52:54 <TrueBrain> :D 17:53:05 <TrueBrain> and direct URLs to posts do work instantly 17:53:13 <TrueBrain> it is only the main page that doesn't show it yet 17:58:56 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 17:58:57 <TrueBrain> I am fine with that 17:58:57 <TrueBrain> okay, CF did 2 hours by default 17:59:01 <TrueBrain> we will see if/how we like it :) 17:59:09 <TrueBrain> also means things like new nightlies being published "slower" 18:02:02 <TrueBrain> if this works out, I can move more stuff to CF that doesn't really consume resources, but are just easier to do on CF .. like redirects etc 18:06:46 <TrueBrain> CF also filters webtraffic for baddies 18:06:50 <TrueBrain> I put it on one of the lowest mode 18:07:05 <TrueBrain> but a whole block of IPs gets a captcha 18:07:06 <TrueBrain> all from the same AS 18:07:12 <TrueBrain> I think it is working :) 18:08:46 * andythenorth reading https://web.dev/uses-long-cache-ttl/ 18:08:59 *** virtualrandomnumber has joined #openttd 18:09:15 *** virtualrandomnumber has quit IRC 18:09:50 <TrueBrain> if we would use query-strings for versioning of our static assets, we could set it to a year too :P 18:10:18 * andythenorth does that in places 18:10:39 <TrueBrain> we could do that, but we currently are not doing it 18:14:24 <TrueBrain> RC1 costs us 1.5 dollar per day :P 18:14:27 <TrueBrain> random stats ;) 18:20:55 <peter1138> Spendy 18:25:17 <TrueBrain> oof, we had 3 million DNS requests last month 18:25:24 <TrueBrain> AWS charged 1 dollar 25 for that 18:25:36 <TrueBrain> Cloudflare does that for free now :P 18:47:29 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master https://git.io/Jzpes 18:47:31 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators) 18:49:24 <TrueBrain> 279? Nice score nielsm :) 18:49:56 <TrueBrain> 29 languages fully done now, 35 to go. 18:51:08 <andythenorth> lol dependabot is still nagging me 18:51:15 <TrueBrain> we definitely lost some translators btw :P 18:51:16 <andythenorth> aiohttp 18:51:24 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: nag it back 18:51:30 <TrueBrain> if you own the repo, you can mute it btw 18:51:35 <andythenorth> I am liking it 18:51:46 <andythenorth> who is our vulnerability manager? 18:51:57 <TrueBrain> and for aiohttp, the latest is a post-release, and it refuses to see that as newer than the older release 18:52:11 <andythenorth> if i have to look in the mirror for the vulnerability manager 18:52:13 <TrueBrain> if it is on any OpenTTD-repo, let me know, and I will mute it for you :P 18:52:18 <andythenorth> we are in big trouble :P 18:52:23 <andythenorth> it is openttd website 18:52:38 <andythenorth> but it's the first time I've seen dependabot working on my repos, so it's interesting 18:52:49 <TrueBrain> in your fork? Update your main 18:52:53 <TrueBrain> didn't someone already tell you that? :P 18:53:42 <TrueBrain> ah, no, it is the post issue 18:53:45 <TrueBrain> so yeah, mute it :P 18:54:30 <andythenorth> ok 18:55:04 <andythenorth> hmm more options I can click 18:55:10 <andythenorth> 'have no bandwidth to fix this' 18:55:16 <andythenorth> can I apply that to my entire life? 18:55:27 <TrueBrain> yes 18:55:48 <andythenorth> life: if product breaks, stop using 18:57:49 <nielsm> TrueBrain: actually more than 279, since I discovered way more old strings that were inconsistent or bad grammar or otherwise needed fixing, but eints apparently doesn't count existing "correct" strings that were edited or something 18:58:12 <nielsm> or hmm... maybe okay 19:08:51 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 19:08:51 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 19:12:08 *** gelignite has quit IRC 19:13:22 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick opened pull request #9586: Doc: Fix some documentation typos https://git.io/JzpJv 19:15:52 *** tokai has quit IRC 19:18:17 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on pull request #9586: Doc: Fix some documentation typos https://git.io/JzpJa 19:36:20 <TrueBrain> lol @ Steam .. so we have been operating the master-server for 14 years .. why is he after us "but what if you shut down the MP servers?!" :D 19:37:17 <glx> and openttd multiplayer works fine without master server or game coordinator 19:37:27 <glx> it's just less friendly 19:37:53 <TrueBrain> yeah, I think nielsm ?, already replied that :) 19:38:04 <TrueBrain> but just the ... we have been doing this for 14 years already 19:38:16 <TrueBrain> don't bitch about "but what if you shut down the master server?!" :P 19:38:20 <TrueBrain> so silly 19:39:55 <TrueBrain> okay .. amount of multiplayer games boomed a bit