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Log for #openttd on 10th January 2022:
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02:37:48  <supermop_Home> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=89627
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09:54:06  <andythenorth> hmm
09:54:12  <andythenorth> restricting town sizes by region?
09:54:13  <andythenorth> GS?
09:54:16  <andythenorth> oof
10:03:39  <peter1138> Restricting coffee intake?
10:04:56  <andythenorth> I've tried
10:05:03  <andythenorth> 4 a day works
10:05:09  <andythenorth> 5 a day is too many, but happens
10:05:17  <andythenorth> 3 a day is not enough :(
10:26:16  <Timberwolf> I have been slightly better since not working in offices, before that it was typically 2-3 coffees and 5-7 cups of tea per day.
10:27:21  <LordAro> did you get any work done, or were you constantly making drinks/going to the toilet?
10:28:07  <Timberwolf> The latter does start to become an issue during the late part of the day.
10:29:07  <Timberwolf> I got quite optimised with drinks. The worst is when you start to think about the frequency you're the one to fill up an empty filter coffee machine on a floor of ~300 people.
10:37:11  <LordAro> ha
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12:17:09  <peter1138> "I can't access your site due to our corporate censorship^W firewall, what are you going do to?"
12:17:13  <peter1138> Uh huh
12:45:58  <andythenorth_> "do you have a hotspot on your phone?"
12:46:18  <andythenorth_> meanwhile, anyone using Snyk?
12:46:36  <andythenorth_> trying to work out what it does and if it's snake oil https://snyk.io/
13:05:43  <LordAro> feels a bit like its repackaging/reimplementing existing stuff
13:06:00  <LordAro> not sure if there's any that are publicly available though - i know github has a similar thing
13:09:14  <andythenorth_> I think it's just Dependabot outside of github
13:09:25  <andythenorth_> plus some wavey hands about AI code analysis
13:09:37  <andythenorth_> and a big ticket price if you want actual features
13:14:19  <Timberwolf> I know a couple people who work there, not dug too much into it - they started out with software supply chain and dependency scanning iirc, then moved on to automated code analysis.
13:15:04  <Timberwolf> Think one of the big sells is you can do PCI compliance with a tool that isn't utterly awful and generates thousands of false positives every time it runs.
13:20:41  <andythenorth_> that is the theoretical selling point for me (not PCI, but similar compliance)
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14:29:02  <supermop_Home> yo
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15:50:49  <nielsm> https://www.dosgameclub.com/transport-tycoon/
15:50:55  <nielsm> podcast published today
15:53:44  <supermop_Home> yay
16:35:38  <supermop_Home> hmm no one has found the aloha shirts yet
16:43:51  <TrueBrain> nielsm: "who is actually an active developer of OpenTTD and thus very knowledgeable about the game and especially OpenTTD's history" <- I love the "thus" :D
16:44:53  <TrueBrain> the website style is absolutely briliant
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17:13:35  <supermop_Home> I guess I should make arctic Hawaii sprites too... in case anyone wants to set a game on top of Mauna Kea: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_of_Hawaii#/media/File:Hawaii_K%C3%B6ppen.png
17:13:51  <supermop_Home> ^needs snow in tropic
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17:51:57  <andythenorth_> quak
17:53:41  <frosch123> moo
17:57:35  <andythenorth_> can I read the length of the town array as a random seed? :P
17:57:49  * andythenorth_ should not read http://marcin.ttdpatch.net/sv1codec/TTD-locations.html
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20:04:56  <frosch123> nielsm: nice podcast :) i learned a few things and/or relearned things i forgot
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21:17:43  <nielsm> I should listen to it myself too, I can't quite remember all we talked about!
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21:19:51  <frosch123> i certainly did not know that ttdp was sponsored by a disassembler company
21:22:15  <frosch123> also that they force recruited you to their club :p
21:24:27  <nielsm> I didn't quite feel forced no
21:28:17  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/nml] 2TallTyler commented on issue #218: Request: Add variable for xy coordinates of industries https://git.io/JGqZ1
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21:55:16  <supermop_Home> should i replace the tropic trees?
21:55:56  <supermop_Home> ogfx seems to have some eucalyptus-y trees... could use a few better palms
21:56:15  <supermop_Home> also really need a banyan and nortfolk island pine
21:56:39  <supermop_Home> i don't really understand how rainforest works
21:57:10  <supermop_Home> andythenorth_ did you ever figure out how to get tropic to generate mountains?
21:57:17  <andythenorth_> nope
21:57:50  <supermop_Home> why does tropic use a different bumpiness anyway?
22:03:42  <andythenorth_> because stuff
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22:06:58  <wisbascii> What about Mount Fuji
22:08:30  <wisbascii> what are those almost verticle trains called ?
22:10:03  <bkilm[m]> Do you think a mod would be possible to be able to play OpenTTD with terminal graphics?
22:11:05  <glx> already possible, but it's not really readable
22:11:42  <supermop_Home> wisbascii an elevator?
22:11:50  <nielsm> wisbascii: funiculars? rack rail?
22:12:12  <wisbascii> nielsm: that's the one, thanks!
22:12:32  <bkilm[m]> I mean, what if the projection was changed to be at a right angle?
22:12:43  <wisbascii> supermop_Home: "elevator" lol .. not a train a single carriage ;-)
22:12:48  <bkilm[m]> It would also be funny to replace sprites with Unicode characters!
22:13:00  <supermop_Home> can i open an issue that tropic mountains suck? or will you just close it?
22:13:32  <wisbascii> sucking isn't a bug
22:13:36  <bkilm[m]> I found a bunch of ASCII games that made me wonder https://gitlab.com/bkil/open-gaming/-/blob/master/ascii.md
22:14:05  <wisbascii> bkilm[m]: maybe as a top down scroller ?
22:14:33  <wisbascii> you could paste ascii junctions ! ;-)
22:14:49  <supermop_Home> wisbascii maybe not a bug, but it is an issue
22:14:59  <bkilm[m]> Yes! You can copy & paste screenshots on platforms that have preformatted multi-line text (like Matrix)
22:15:11  <nielsm> bkilm[m]: do you mean as in change away from the orthographic projection into a flat top-down view or something? because you'd need to rip a huge part of the code out for that
22:15:17  <bkilm[m]> Yes
22:15:23  <bkilm[m]> Sorry to hear that.
22:15:51  <wisbascii> it would probably be easier to start with "centipede" code
22:16:31  <bkilm[m]> `apt install empire` https://sourceware.org/xconq/gamedoc/old-empire/index.html
22:17:17  <wisbascii> supermop_Home: not really an issue either, more like opinion..
22:17:56  <bkilm[m]> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empire_(1977_video_game)
22:18:40  <wisbascii> nethack could do it ;-)
22:18:42  <supermop_Home> wisbascii if you have a menu choice of 'flat, hilly, or mountainous', but all three yield essentially the same result, that is at the very least an issue of design philosophy
22:19:15  <supermop_Home> if i choose mountainous i would expect to see at least one mountain
22:19:55  <wisbascii> supermop_Home: sure .. but does that technically count as "sucking" ? |-]
22:20:16  <supermop_Home> yes
22:20:33  <wisbascii> not for me
22:20:47  <wisbascii> select a muntainous stage
22:21:02  <wisbascii> mountainous
22:21:21  * wisbascii reaches for the dictionary
22:21:54  <supermop_Home> if you bought a set of tools that said it had a screwdriver, a wrench, and a hammer, but when you opened the box it was just three hammers, that would be an issue
22:22:05  <supermop_Home> you might even say that your set of tools sucks
22:22:21  <wisbascii> if you did you would be deviod of the truth ..
22:22:27  <wisbascii> devoid*
22:22:52  <wisbascii> a. it is not a set of tools. b. if hammers suck then we must all suck too
22:23:43  <wisbascii> i don't really know the"insides" of ottd but I know enough to know that senarios don't mix
22:24:11  <supermop_Home> currently i'd describe it as 'Game feature claims to do X, actually does Y'
22:24:39  <wisbascii> i'd say it does what it says on the tin, just depends which tin you have in your hand
22:26:17  <nielsm> supermop_Home: what is your variety distribution setting at?
22:27:16  <supermop_Home> nielsm high
22:27:57  <supermop_Home> though 'very low' looks the same
22:30:13  <supermop_Home> on alpinist with high or very low variety distribution, the map is broadly very flat - between height 1 and 3 - with a few small hills around height 6
22:31:30  <supermop_Home> i don't mind tropic generation being different that the other climates, but it would be helpful to be able to quickly roll a bumpy tropic map
22:33:10  <wisbascii> which one is "tropic" ?
22:33:16  <supermop_Home> does rainforest need to be at high elevation?
22:33:56  <nielsm> no, rainforest can also be on flat land, but the terrain generator only puts it together with mountains
22:34:27  <nielsm> in the map editor you can also make flat rainforest and mountanious desert
22:34:42  <andythenorth_> there is ASCII OpenTTD no?
22:34:51  <andythenorth_> one of the video drivers can do it I thought?
22:34:54  <supermop_Home> i mean i feel that that is at least a gameplay reason to let the generator generate mountains?
22:35:03  <andythenorth_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61-PpWzl_0w
22:35:04  <nielsm> if you compile with SDL 1.2 then you can have SDL do ASCII art output
22:35:35  <nielsm> note that SDL 1.2 is officially out of support from the developers and they recommend against using it
22:35:37  <andythenorth_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61-PpWzl_0w
22:35:43  <andythenorth_> oops wrong paste https://www.reddit.com/r/openttd/comments/2nizcj/whoops_didnt_know_this_was_possible/
22:36:55  * andythenorth_ bedtime
22:36:58  <supermop_Home> nielsm so if the generator generates a very flat landscape does it just put the rainforest on height 3 or not at all?
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22:37:14  <nielsm> I don't know enough about it to answer that
22:37:32  <supermop_Home> well will you close my issue, or is it worth opening?
22:37:43  <nielsm> but do try the original generator instead of terragenesis, it goes about subtropic in an entirely different way (it also gives you almost no options for it)
22:39:04  <supermop_Home> haha its literally split in half down the middle, with hills on the west, flat on the  east, and water running up the center
22:40:10  <wisbascii> is the question not: what are you trying to do ?
22:40:12  <nielsm> it can split in either direction
22:41:54  <supermop_Home> nielsm original is certainly more successful at making bumps, but it doesn't look as good as say, a terragenesis temperate map
22:42:43  <supermop_Home> it would also be nice to have indication of rainforest areas on the terrain
22:42:53  <nielsm> you can also try lowering the desert coverage % for subtropic, it won't make  more mountains but it will make more rainforest
22:43:44  <supermop_Home> i already have it at 0... there is very little desert in Hawaii (not zero, but not really enough to make sense for Openttd gameplay)
22:43:48  <nielsm> actually... I still don't know, is rainforest the same as not-desert, or are there desert, green, and rainforest as three different things?
22:43:56  <supermop_Home> three things
22:44:11  <supermop_Home> rainforest uses the same grass tiles as regular non-desert
22:44:52  <supermop_Home> but can have different trees, and the original sawmill can only be build in rainforest
22:45:22  <nielsm> I'm off, already way too late
22:45:25  <nielsm> gn
22:45:28  <supermop_Home> later
22:45:58  <wisbascii> so ..
22:46:20  <wisbascii> are you just trying to push the generator ?
22:48:49  <supermop_Home> i just want a mountainous map if i choose 'mountainous'
22:49:28  <wisbascii> are there any settings which actually give you what you want, so i can see ?
22:50:55  <supermop_Home> choosing mountainous with temperate or arctic both give results that are different than 'flat' or 'hilly'
22:51:38  <supermop_Home> with tropic there is no appreciable difference between flat, hilly, mountainous, or alpinist
22:52:04  <wisbascii> yeah, i see what you mean
22:52:37  <supermop_Home> i'm not saying that mountainous tropic needs to be the same as mountainous arctic
22:53:18  <wisbascii> i'm trying lots of combos and not seeing a mountain ..
22:53:19  <supermop_Home> just that it needs to look different than flat tropic
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22:53:53  <supermop_Home> so that there is some visual and gameplay difference based on options selected
22:54:18  <wisbascii> there is some way to lower the snow line i think
22:54:35  <supermop_Home> there is no snow in tropic
22:54:54  <wisbascii> lol
22:55:07  <wisbascii> yeah and the now line is not an option either
22:55:17  <wisbascii> it's only a %
22:55:46  <wisbascii> i can only presume a 3way % battle, Tropic vs temporate vs tundra
22:56:04  <wisbascii> something like that
22:56:41  <wisbascii> snow-line**
22:57:03  <wisbascii> so there was this: "/snow-line hieght"
22:57:21  <wisbascii> and you could lower it for more snow etc..
22:57:37  <supermop_Home> that was changed a couple years ago
22:58:27  <wisbascii> i guess..
22:58:29  <supermop_Home> i believe the current approach tries to account for the heightlevels on the map
22:59:04  <supermop_Home> but basically sets the snow line at a level where roughly that percentage of the map will be above it
23:03:41  <supermop_Home> as the snow line has a gameplay effect on towns and industries, it's in someways more helpful to have a setting that translates to 'roughly x% of towns will require food' or y% of land will be able to have farms
23:05:46  <wisbascii> it looks like a binary choice: snow or desert by %
23:08:17  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] supermop opened issue #9786: [Bug]: Terragenesis Mountainous setting does nothing for Tropic landscape https://git.io/J9Cqt
23:08:31  <wisbascii> try "Custom height=70"
23:09:21  <wisbascii> terrain type: custom height = 75
23:11:31  <wisbascii> 300!
23:21:30  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] supermop opened issue #9787: Rainforest is visually indistinguishable from regular grass https://git.io/J9Cmq
23:29:25  <wisbascii> supermop_Home: looking for a challenge ?
23:31:00  <wisbascii> something a little more challenging ?
23:39:11  <supermop_Home> challenge?
23:40:53  <supermop_Home> my current challenge is deciding whether i can buy a new lens
23:42:50  <wisbascii> photography ?
23:43:28  <wisbascii> do you use a vpn much ?
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2022-0

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