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00:03:15 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 00:03:54 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 00:07:11 *** debdog has quit IRC 00:08:11 *** debdog has joined #openttd 00:37:51 *** debdog has quit IRC 00:38:51 *** debdog has joined #openttd 01:21:06 *** Thedarkb-T60 has quit IRC 01:31:24 *** Thedarkb-T60 has joined #openttd 01:59:29 *** tokai has joined #openttd 01:59:29 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 02:06:19 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 02:42:11 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 02:46:38 *** glx has quit IRC 03:09:24 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 03:23:02 *** D-HUND has joined #openttd 03:26:24 *** debdog has quit IRC 04:35:48 *** Tirili has joined #openttd 05:02:05 *** _aD has quit IRC 07:35:49 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 07:42:07 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 08:03:46 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 08:58:34 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] randstring commented on issue #9561: [Crash]: Game crashed on switching windows with Alt-Tab https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/9561 08:58:37 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] randstring closed issue #9561: [Crash]: Game crashed on switching windows with Alt-Tab https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/9561 10:10:51 *** Tirili has quit IRC 10:35:40 <peter1138> What do I do with three bottles of Prosecco? 10:38:34 <LordAro> are they multiplying? 11:05:02 <_dp_> why is graphics rendering time increasing on fast forward? 11:05:30 <_dp_> like 4x 11:08:58 *** Compu has joined #openttd 11:09:58 <_dp_> nvm, just more updates per frame it seems 11:30:57 <peter1138> LordAro, I put the new one I got in the "wine" rack and... found another two already there. 11:31:12 <peter1138> Wine in quotes, because there's no real wine in it. 11:33:31 <LordAro> haha 13:00:21 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 13:31:08 *** roadt has joined #openttd 13:32:32 <Timberwolf> peter1138: Advocaat, twist of lime juice, they make a nice variant on a snowball. 13:33:07 <Timberwolf> Or Aperol and soda, which is nice for a weekend afternoon. 15:09:39 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 15:52:22 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 16:19:28 <supermop_work> yo 16:23:30 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 16:43:16 *** glx has joined #openttd 16:43:16 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 16:57:33 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 17:01:54 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/BaNaNaS] frosch123 opened pull request #114: Change: migrate OpenTTD user GarryG to GitHub user GarryR67 https://github.com/OpenTTD/BaNaNaS/pull/114 17:06:42 <LordAro> curious, i had an exciting compiler error with gcc9 - lots of template errors from network_command.cpp - but it went away after a clean & rebuild 17:15:53 <LordAro> also some interesting warnings about enums 17:16:11 <LordAro> f < FOO_BEGIN || f > FOO_END sort of thing 17:20:08 <LordAro> nope, it came back - https://pastebin.com/genDjEmr 17:20:13 <LordAro> oh, this is gcc8 as well 17:20:47 <frosch123> yes, gcc8 is not enough anymore 17:20:54 <LordAro> oh :( 17:26:37 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 17:27:11 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 17:28:59 *** Flygon has quit IRC 17:35:09 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/BaNaNaS] TrueBrain approved pull request #114: Change: migrate OpenTTD user GarryG to GitHub user GarryR67 https://github.com/OpenTTD/BaNaNaS/pull/114#pullrequestreview-865216356 17:35:15 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/BaNaNaS] TrueBrain merged pull request #114: Change: migrate OpenTTD user GarryG to GitHub user GarryR67 https://github.com/OpenTTD/BaNaNaS/pull/114 17:36:32 <frosch123> >50% packages migrated now :) 17:37:48 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 17:51:16 <TrueBrain> It was a biggy today frosch123 :) 85 .. not bad :D 17:54:00 <frosch123> yes, the author with the most sets 17:54:36 <frosch123> the next unmigrated authors have 37, 28, 28, 26, 23, 20 sets 17:54:47 <frosch123> but have not heard about them in years 18:45:37 *** supermop_Home has quit IRC 19:01:00 *** _aD has joined #openttd 19:36:08 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 19:55:26 <supermop_work> hmm i wonder what happened at home 20:07:32 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on pull request #9801: Change Language Definitions: Split zh_TW into zh_TW and zh_HK https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/9801#issuecomment-1023595755 20:10:00 <TrueBrain> smart move frosch123 ; didn't think of that :D 20:10:45 <frosch123> well, i assumed it was a translator, kind of surprised it's some external unknown 20:11:18 <frosch123> personally i think it's not worth it. noone bothered doing an austrian translation, and hk is even smaller 20:11:46 <TrueBrain> but we can just hire another translator, can't we? 20:11:48 <TrueBrain> small effort !! 20:12:03 <frosch123> though it's even more weird there is yet another iso code for macau 20:12:21 <frosch123> like 3 different language for 3 small areas, and a single one for 1 billion country? 20:13:49 <TrueBrain> what can I say .... the Netherlands is very small and already has 2 (and at least 1 wannabe :P) 20:15:24 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 20:15:34 <TrueBrain> sttt, he is here 20:16:54 <frosch123> do you mean translators or languages? 20:17:04 <frosch123> fy_NL has currently no translator 20:17:46 <TrueBrain> I wasn't talked about OpenTTD 20:17:56 <TrueBrain> talking 20:17:59 <TrueBrain> typing, hard :P 20:19:50 <andythenorth> can I reply to this? https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=89690 20:20:02 <TrueBrain> not sure how capable you are 20:20:14 <andythenorth> I can hit the keys on my keyboard 20:20:24 <andythenorth> mostly 20:20:30 <TrueBrain> we are proud parents! 20:20:52 <TrueBrain> it is cute they says "SDL" 20:21:07 <TrueBrain> like ... yeah ... that is a software renderer by default, well done :D 20:21:54 <frosch123> andythenorth: what do you want to answer? "everything you suggest is already done. you probably heard some myths about old people like eddi who repeat the same stuff from 10 years ago"? 20:22:08 <TrueBrain> yeah, that reply is a bit weird :P 20:22:14 <TrueBrain> not yours 20:22:16 <TrueBrain> ugh, I stop typing now 20:25:48 <andythenorth> I was just going to reply with "Havent got time to get into the code yet," <- try this :) 20:34:32 <supermop_work> frosch123: there are more than one language on mainlaind, just not with much official use? 20:35:24 <frosch123> my understanding was, there are many spoken languages, but only one written one 20:36:45 <supermop_work> well its like the country has a standardized orthography based on simplified characters, and Cantonese, Shanghaiese and Mandarin for example all use that 20:36:58 <supermop_work> but there are other minority languages as well 20:37:21 <supermop_work> i guess maybe they would be different enough to not get zh_ tho 20:38:25 <supermop_work> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bai_language 20:38:42 <supermop_work> "The old Bai script used modified Chinese characters, but its use was limited.[45] A new script based on the Latin alphabet was designed in 1958, based on the speech of the urban centre of Xiaguan, even though it was not a typical Southern dialect." 20:39:04 <supermop_work> probably not a huge need to translate the game for that 20:40:00 <supermop_work> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Written_Hokkien 20:40:22 <supermop_work> frosch123: ^that certainly has more users than Austrian German 20:42:58 <supermop_work> somehow my father-in-law manages to keep his Fujianese, Cantonese, and Mandarin all straight in his head in addition to English 20:44:15 <supermop_work> as an american i have accidentally said swedish words when trying to speak japanese in the past 20:44:36 <supermop_work> as we are dumb and all 'foreign language' goes into one big bucket in our heads 20:44:54 *** Kitrana has quit IRC 20:45:46 <frosch123> do you use the terms "Traditional English (en_UK)" and "Simplified English (en_US)"? :) 20:46:44 <supermop_work> frosch123: Traditional English and "needlessly less logical English(en_US)" 20:47:03 <wiscii> language and early brain development (years 0-5) go hand in hand for most 20:47:05 <supermop_work> simplified would imply a rational improvement 20:48:26 *** Kitrana has joined #openttd 20:49:26 <TrueBrain> Simplified English .. I got to remember that 20:51:11 <frosch123> the other funny language is portuguese 20:51:33 <frosch123> the number of speakers drowns the population of the place the language is named after 20:52:32 <frosch123> s/drowns/dwarfs/ 20:55:28 <supermop_work> i guess if all the Brazilians et al got together they could drown all the Portuguese 20:59:21 <wiscii> English, Portuguese and Spanish (and a few Camadian French) 20:59:44 <wiscii> s/m/n 21:00:18 <frosch123> i would think there are more european french than canadian french 21:01:45 <wiscii> yes, of course .. thinking of other languages where people live outside the country of origin 21:02:06 <frosch123> that's the case for almost every language 21:02:29 <wiscii> the largest population of greeks outside of Greece is in Australia but they probably don't speak ancient greek ;-) 21:03:22 <supermop_work> more Poles in Chicago than in warsaw 21:03:27 <frosch123> nation states are a pretty new thing, historically languages transitioned smoothly. hard language borders are a development of displacement and strong nation states 21:21:12 *** NGC3982 has quit IRC 21:24:24 *** NGC3982 has joined #openttd 21:25:21 <Rubidium> might the HK TW thing not also be something quite political. HK is now, effectively People's Republic of China (PRC) whereas Taiwan considers itself the Republic of China (ROC). They both basically claim the same land with all the "fun" that entails... 21:26:18 <frosch123> then they wouldn't ask for a split? 21:26:24 <LordAro> the same thought occurred to me 21:26:59 <frosch123> anyway, the translators shall decide :) i'll prefer their opinion about someone making a PR 21:27:08 <frosch123> s/about/over/ 21:29:04 <frosch123> for now the TW translation is still somewhat not up-to-date, so there are certainly no edit wars 21:29:22 <frosch123> like there were when es_MX was split from es_ES 21:29:40 <frosch123> haha, almost forgot that 21:30:12 <frosch123> i think the es_ES translators asked to get the es_MX guy get banned for adding spelling mistakes 21:30:34 <andythenorth> can we disable default objects? 21:30:39 <andythenorth> transmitter, lighthouse 21:30:41 <andythenorth> via grf? 21:30:46 <supermop_work> Rubidium: the language is quite different 21:30:53 <frosch123> andythenorth: pretty sure you can 21:31:03 <Rubidium> well... it also wants to rename the existing language so it's more a "local" dialect 21:31:39 <supermop_work> if you were a native speaker of tawainese Hokkien, you aren't automatically able to speak HK cantonese 21:32:57 <frosch123> Rubidium: https://github.com/getnikola/nikola/issues/1637 <- that's the best explanation i found on the isocodes 21:33:04 <Rubidium> supermop_work: I wonder whether that's due to political conflict. Canadian French is also quite different from European French, to the point where the stop signs in France say "Stop" and in Quebec "Arret". That "Arret" seems to me to spite the English speaking part of Canada 21:33:22 <supermop_work> Rubidium its not a ROC thing 21:33:44 <andythenorth> can't see an object method like disable_item for vehicles 21:33:45 *** Kitrana1 has joined #openttd 21:33:47 <supermop_work> Hokkien has been very different from Cantonese for hundreds of years, 21:33:56 <supermop_work> and there are Hokkien speakers in PRC too 21:34:03 * andythenorth can't remember how to disable vehicles in nfo either :P 21:35:27 <LordAro> a neat extension to the lang files would be "use this base language, unless overridden" 21:35:43 <supermop_work> where I live in Manhattan Chinatown, there are language classes for low income Fujianese/Hokkien speakers to learn Mandarin for more economic opprotunity 21:35:48 <LordAro> would help a lot with the completeness of the languages that are just slightly different 21:36:08 <supermop_work> the phonology sounds very very different 21:38:30 <supermop_work> its not mutually intelligible. The character set is mostly the same, but idiomatically TW HK and CN might use different specific words in certain contexts 21:38:31 <frosch123> LordAro: you would need that per string, not per language 21:38:45 <frosch123> it's pretty useless to give translators a list of 3k untranslated strings 21:38:54 <frosch123> if they can't tag them as "not to translate" 21:39:06 <supermop_work> so they might use different characters even if both are using the simplified character set 21:39:12 <LordAro> frosch123: that's what i mean 21:39:42 <frosch123> i compared en_AU with the other two en once 21:40:03 <frosch123> most differences were in toyland 21:40:07 *** Kitrana has quit IRC 21:40:15 <frosch123> candyfloss, cotten candy, fairyfloss 21:40:21 <LordAro> ha 21:41:24 <supermop_work> candy and toy words are probably the biggest difference among anglophonic peoples 21:47:03 <frosch123> andythenorth: i cannot find a method either, i thought ogfx+landscape did something, but maybe it was just a basesprite replacement 21:47:30 <andythenorth> hmm :) 21:52:37 <nielsm> also, frankly, saying "OpenGL" in specific is very much ignoring the huge chunk of computers capable of running OTTD today that would no longer if OpenGL was a requirement 21:52:48 <nielsm> oh, I was scrolled up 21:54:53 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd 21:56:14 <nielsm> <@Rubidium> might the HK TW thing not also be something quite political <-- I considered that when I saw the PR, but after reading up on it, Taiwan is the name of the island, so it's plain only a reference to the land mass in which that dialect is customarily used 22:00:15 <supermop_work> nielsm: that family of dialects are also used in Malaysia, Singapore, communities in Vietnam and on the mainland in Xiamen 22:01:34 <peter1138> Oh dear, ummed and ahhed and missed next day delivery option... 22:02:34 <Gustavo6046> umm ahh uhh amm 22:04:29 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 22:06:56 <nielsm> supermop_work and it's a minority language (either de facto or by decree) in all those places. when labeling a language choice you'd choose a name that's generally recognizable. 22:08:15 <nielsm> it makes sense to use a label identifying the biggest place where it's a majority language 22:08:43 <supermop_work> i'm not sure its quite minority language in Xiamen or most of Taiwan? mostly just laying out that Hokkien being different than Mandarin and Cantonese is not really part of PRC/ROC conflict 22:09:28 <nielsm> on Taiwan it's the majority language, right? 22:10:13 <nielsm> and in Xiamen it's a minority language by decree from the government in beijing, even if it might not be in practice 22:19:53 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 22:19:56 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 22:20:04 *** jottyfan has quit IRC 22:21:54 <supermop_work> i am not sure what the exact legal status in Xiamen is, 22:22:20 <supermop_work> most immigrants from Fujian province in New York speak little if any Mandarin though 22:23:26 <nielsm> but my point is still, the label used should be easily recognizable and I'd say "Taiwan" is the best candidate for that 22:23:41 <supermop_work> sunset park neighborhood and lesser extent south eastern quarter of Manhattan Chinatown are heavily Fujianese dialect speaking 22:24:08 <supermop_work> i agree that Taiwan the island is most representative for the Min/Hokkien family of languages 22:24:41 <nielsm> "Chinese (Taiwan, Xiamen, Malaysia, Singapore, Phillipines, New York)" 22:24:49 <nielsm> would not be a great label for a GUI 22:24:59 <supermop_work> nielsm: Brooklyn, not Queens, New York 22:25:31 <supermop_work> traditionally its Cantonese in Manhattan, Mandarin in Queens, and Fujianese in South Brooklyn 22:25:43 <supermop_work> (zh_BK) 22:26:41 <supermop_work> maps to 1800s-1910s, 1960s-70s, and 1990s-2000s periods of immigration 22:28:17 <supermop_work> i think the most contriversial part of zh_TW being Hokkien tho is, it kind of erases the Mainland immigrant and Aboriginal populations of Taiwan? 22:28:58 *** gelignite has quit IRC 22:31:43 <supermop_work> that's where it gets into political territory that i don't feel comfortable to make an argument on 22:45:47 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 22:49:44 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 22:50:47 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 22:53:02 *** roadt_ has joined #openttd 22:55:44 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 22:57:15 <Gustavo6046> industrial trams need more recognition among 2cc newgrfs 22:57:39 <Gustavo6046> also a bunch of vehicles seem to stand out from the background of 2cc vehicles e.g. in the Buy a Vehicle menu, because they're stylized differently 22:57:47 <Gustavo6046> there ought to be a way to programatically "2cc-ify" a vehicle 22:59:02 <peter1138> Haha 22:59:44 <Gustavo6046> nielsm, "Chinese (New York)" sounds funny, then again I'm not an American 22:59:52 *** roadt has quit IRC 23:00:09 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 23:02:06 <Gustavo6046> anyway another issue with adding vehicles from multiple newgrfs is that it's nigh impossible for their values to be balanced 23:02:15 <Gustavo6046> sometimes a vehicle will be better simply because it's from a different newgrf 23:02:31 <Gustavo6046> I feel like it wouldn't be too difficult to add some code to automatically adjust vehicles under such discrepancy, thuogh 23:05:32 <Gustavo6046> how come there are so many North Korea themed NewGRFs? that's amusing :p 23:05:35 <Gustavo6046> and cool! 23:06:02 <nielsm> Gustavo6046: you can basically find dialects anywhere there's a community of language speakers partially isolated, you could pretty much make any "Language (Geographic location)" combination you wanted and still not be sufficiently specific for some cases 23:06:23 <Gustavo6046> yeah 23:10:02 *** nielsm has quit IRC 23:11:46 <Gustavo6046> is the difference between heightmaps and scenarios that scenarios have predefined cities (and industries)? 23:12:19 <Gustavo6046> can a scenario be used as a heightmap? 23:20:13 <LordAro> by niels' defibition, you could have about 20 English variants from England alone, without even trying 23:20:18 <LordAro> definition* 23:20:46 <LordAro> writing systems are usually more or less the same though 23:24:17 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 23:25:06 <Gustavo6046> LordAro, like the northern ones? 23:25:19 <Gustavo6046> I wonder what Llanfairese is 23:40:11 <Gustavo6046> or would be called, anyway