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10:34:05 *** Flygon_ has quit IRC 10:34:27 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd 10:34:54 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd 10:35:19 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd 10:35:51 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd 10:36:00 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 10:36:17 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd 10:37:47 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd 10:38:12 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd 10:38:46 <pickpacket> andythenorth: what's TrueGRF? 10:39:02 <andythenorth> https://truegrf.truebrain.nl/ 10:39:35 *** Flygon_ has quit IRC 10:39:53 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd 10:40:15 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd 10:41:35 *** Flygon_ has quit IRC 10:41:48 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd 10:42:21 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd 10:50:55 <pickpacket> andythenorth: that's such a cool tool! What am I expected to draw in the "graphics" section? 10:51:10 <andythenorth> for cargos? a sprite 10:51:20 <andythenorth> used in stations etc 10:51:35 <andythenorth> https://github.com/andythenorth/firs/blob/main/src/graphics/other/cargoicons.png 10:52:35 *** Flygon_ has quit IRC 10:52:56 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd 10:57:04 <FLHerne> pickpacket: OpenTTD sprites usually have to be in a specific palette https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/PalettesAndCoordinates 11:00:02 <pickpacket> What are the cargo types "Piece Goods" and "Bulk", respectively? 11:00:20 <pickpacket> FLHerne: good link! It looks like TrueGRF honours that 11:00:43 <FLHerne> oh, he has a sprite editor built-in? 11:00:46 <FLHerne> neat :-) 11:01:28 <andythenorth> https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action0/Cargos#CargoClasses_.2816.29 11:01:49 <FLHerne> "bulk" is granular stuff you can pile up 11:02:03 <FLHerne> coal, grain, stone, whatever 11:02:26 <FLHerne> "piece goods" is stuff like crates, sacks, maybe parcels 11:02:41 <FLHerne> you can have multiple classes for the same cargo 11:03:14 <FLHerne> it's used to determine which vehicles can carry it, mostly 11:03:33 <FLHerne> (entirely?) 11:04:29 <FLHerne> I guess tea is probably in sacks so piece goods, unless you're transporting it pre-made :p 11:06:05 *** Flygon_ has quit IRC 11:06:21 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd 11:06:47 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd 11:10:14 <pickpacket> I chose crates and piece goods :) 11:11:16 <pickpacket> I made two types of cargoes: tea leaves and tea tea deluxe. And two industries: tea farm and tea factory. Now... graphics for the industries... oh my... 11:12:00 <pickpacket> And then to figure out how a tea farm can be an actual farm instead of just a building 11:12:19 <pickpacket> but graphics for the industries is going to be really hard to understand 11:14:29 <pickpacket> I guess this is a good example, but how does the game place the sprites? 11:14:31 <pickpacket> https://github.com/andythenorth/firs/blob/main/src/graphics/industries/ammonia_plant.png 11:15:44 <FLHerne> depends on your grf's tilelayout and spritelayout, but I suspect TrueGRF does some or all of it for you :p 11:16:41 <pickpacket> Yes! I figured out how TrueGRF does it :D 11:50:05 *** Flygon_ has quit IRC 11:50:26 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd 11:57:19 *** nielsm has quit IRC 11:59:17 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 12:01:35 <pickpacket> Doing pixelart on a touchpad *sucks* 12:01:51 <pickpacket> andythenorth: TrueGRF is awesome! 12:05:40 <EmperorJake> I drew an entire locomotive on my Mac touchpad and it worked surprisingly well 12:34:14 <andythenorth> I've drawn millions of pixels on a mac trackpad 😛 12:34:21 <andythenorth> dunno even know how many millions now 😛 12:35:03 <andythenorth> but a single ground tile has about 1000 pixels 12:37:35 *** Flygon_ has quit IRC 12:37:56 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd 12:38:48 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd 12:40:55 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd 12:41:19 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd 12:41:21 <petern> Hi 12:43:05 *** Flygon_ has quit IRC 12:43:19 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd 12:43:48 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd 12:44:14 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd 12:44:35 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd 12:44:42 *** Flygon_ has quit IRC 12:45:03 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd 12:45:27 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd 12:45:57 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd 12:46:18 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd 12:46:40 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd 12:49:35 *** Flygon_ has quit IRC 12:49:49 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd 12:50:18 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd 12:54:18 <andythenorth> o/ 12:54:19 *** Flygon_ has quit IRC 12:55:12 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd 12:58:05 *** Flygon_ has quit IRC 12:58:19 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd 12:58:36 <andythenorth> oops, broke all my objects again 😛 12:58:38 <andythenorth> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1023579283416940636/unknown.png 12:58:41 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd 12:58:47 <andythenorth> 'reloading grfs is bad' 12:58:47 *** Flygon_ has quit IRC 12:59:29 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 12:59:56 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 13:00:00 *** Deep3D has joined #openttd 13:00:41 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 13:00:43 *** Flygon has quit IRC 13:01:05 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 13:02:05 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 13:03:05 *** Flygon has quit IRC 13:03:56 <petern> 'Changing IDs is bad' 🙂 13:04:07 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 13:05:05 *** Flygon has quit IRC 13:16:21 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #10050: Fix: Open scenario editor date query once. https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10050 13:26:27 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 approved pull request #10050: Fix: Open scenario editor date query once. https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10050#pullrequestreview-1119411985 13:27:48 <petern> Dare I go food shopping... 13:38:36 <andythenorth> such tesco 13:42:12 <petern> Need to get raw salad 13:44:19 <andythenorth> hmm 13:44:35 <andythenorth> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1023590846236471326/unknown.png 13:44:48 <andythenorth> Tefal Factory 13:44:53 <andythenorth> makes pans, knives, etc 13:45:08 <andythenorth> if I do cast iron as well, the cargo flow is a mess 😦 14:03:57 <pickpacket> Tea leaf farm! https://lounge.warmedal.se/uploads/6f63c52f5a1d7135/image.png 14:05:05 <pickpacket> do I need any callbacks for this kind of thing? 14:30:02 <andythenorth> if it's just a primary industry, probably not 14:30:09 <andythenorth> all you need it to do is produce 14:33:34 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 14:38:30 *** wallabra has joined #openttd 14:38:30 *** Westie has quit IRC 14:38:55 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 14:44:59 *** Westie has joined #openttd 14:51:50 <EmperorJake> pickpacket: Shading is wrong, sunlight comes from the right in OTTD 14:53:00 <EmperorJake> otherwise it looks great 14:53:05 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 15:01:23 <pickpacket> EmperorJake: oh crap XD Thanks! I'll fix it 15:03:19 <EmperorJake> No problem 15:04:08 <EmperorJake> Just noticed the scale is off too, that table is the size of a truck haha 15:04:58 <EmperorJake> Though I wouldn't worry too much about it, scale in TTD is notoriously wack 15:08:57 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN merged pull request #10050: Fix: Open scenario editor date query once. https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10050 15:20:00 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 15:43:01 *** wallabra_ has joined #openttd 15:45:32 <petern> Is it beer o'clock? 15:47:28 *** wallabra has quit IRC 15:47:28 *** wallabra_ is now known as wallabra 16:08:14 *** wallabra has quit IRC 16:13:33 <pickpacket> EmperorJake: Yeah I noticed the scale too :D Going to have to take an extra look at doors and windows and that table 16:29:07 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #10051: Change: Minor widget changes. https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10051 16:43:43 <FLHerne> pickpacket: "OpenTTD has no consistent scale" in one screenshot https://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=169751 16:43:50 <FLHerne> (credit to 'Seeker') 16:43:52 <andythenorth> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1023635964012281906/unknown.png 16:43:52 <andythenorth> feel like I'm not getting the best of GraphViz here 😛 16:44:18 <FLHerne> are there other layout algorithms that suck less? 16:51:35 <andythenorth> nah 16:51:47 <andythenorth> I've tried the various GraphViz options 16:52:00 <andythenorth> iirc this is dot, which is the preferable one 16:53:24 <andythenorth> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1023638363892355192/unknown.png 16:53:24 <andythenorth> it would need manual drawing to achieve anything like this 16:56:03 <andythenorth> the major limitation is that it really doesn't like right-to-left edges 16:56:28 <andythenorth> and the port-type industries mess with it, because they have outputs that come from the left (source) side of the graph 16:56:40 <andythenorth> but they are also sinks for cargos from the right side of the graph 16:59:08 *** wallabra has joined #openttd 17:13:42 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #10003: Fix #9903: Don't build houses around half-tile roads https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10003#issuecomment-1257237410 17:34:28 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN merged pull request #10045: Cleanup: Split fontcache implementations. https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10045 17:38:28 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler commented on pull request #10003: Fix #9903: Don't build houses around half-tile roads https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10003#issuecomment-1257241899 17:41:41 <pickpacket> And the Tea Tea Deluxe Factory sprite is ready! https://lounge.warmedal.se/uploads/dc43f0ccea3403ac/image.png 17:45:15 <LordAro> nice 17:59:39 <pickpacket> FLHerne: XD 18:00:06 <pickpacket> FLHerne: I noticed that trucks and skyscraper have a rather interesting size ratio 18:03:31 <FLHerne> sailing ships I've seen in the last few days: convincing vs ... not: https://www.flherne.uk/files/IMG_20220921_184642.jpg https://www.flherne.uk/files/IMG_20220925_153054.jpg 18:04:38 <FLHerne> yeah - mostly vehicles are one scale, structures are another, and structures that carry or contain vehicles have to cheat in various ways :p 18:13:27 <pickpacket> errrhhh... The newgrf can't be used at all and of course there's no such thing as debug printout. I see that the generated yaml-files have added the "id: 0" and "id: 1" respectively in the new factories. I recall that we talked about id collisions the other day. Could that be what's up? 18:13:47 <pickpacket> https://github.com/bjornwarmedal/teapot-love 18:15:37 <LordAro> FLHerne: re scale: https://www.history.navy.mil/our-collections/photography/numerical-list-of-images/nhhc-series/nh-series/USN-1061000/USN-1061619.html 18:15:55 <pickpacket> the error I get when I try it is "New vehicles at all will be available. Change your GRF settings" 18:16:21 <FLHerne> TrueBrain: ^ TrueGRF issue 18:17:06 <FLHerne> LordAro: "you are the most beautiful ship in the world" or something? 18:17:13 <frosch> you get that message if you delete all cargos 18:19:51 <pickpacket> frosch: :O 18:20:13 <pickpacket> probably id collision with cargo types then? 18:22:38 <frosch> can you enable pax, mail and goods somehow 18:22:47 <frosch> i forgot what truegrf looked like 18:26:04 <pickpacket> frosch: I can disable my newgrf :P 18:27:22 <pickpacket> I edited the yaml files on github and set randomly chosen IDs in the 700-999 range, but I don't know if TrueGRF uses the latest or its own workspace 18:28:22 <pickpacket> either way it still doesn't work 18:28:51 <frosch> yeah, no, don't do that :p 18:29:04 <frosch> 700-999 is certainly no valid id for about anything 18:29:39 <frosch> rather compare with the firs-steeltown sample-project 18:30:38 <frosch> pickpacket: i just remembered something 18:30:50 <frosch> ottd had a bug, which truegrf exposed 18:31:02 <pickpacket> oh? 18:31:03 <frosch> does your newgrf work inside the truegrf preview? 18:31:13 <pickpacket> no, that's where I'm trying it 18:31:39 <frosch> ok, if it had just failed locally, i would have recommended updating 18:35:13 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 18:49:39 <pickpacket> omg.... the firs steeltown template is 500+ files 18:51:40 <andythenorth> is that all? 🙂 18:52:21 <andythenorth> frosch: the need to shard object IDs per FIRS economy is getting closer 😛 nmlc info: Object items: 238/256 18:53:57 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/commit/761105aaa4cdbece38a264212701493069b33dcb 18:53:58 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators) 18:57:00 <pickpacket> I have no idea how to debug this :( 19:00:44 *** gelignite has quit IRC 19:00:47 <FLHerne> pickpacket: well, the source for TrueGRF is here https://github.com/TrueGRF/TrueGRF 19:01:31 <FLHerne> it's a rather new project so bug might not be in your thing 19:01:50 <FLHerne> best bet is probably to wait for TrueBrain to be around and ask him about it 19:04:23 <frosch> pickpacket: you can use the in-game console and "dump_info cargotypes" 19:37:56 <pickpacket> Uhm... "Move (and uncompress) the NewGRF file to the newgrf directory of your OpenTTD installation" (from https://wiki.openttd.org/en/Manual/NewGRF) which compression is used? 19:38:46 <pickpacket> nvm 19:45:05 <pickpacket> frosch: the "dump_info" command doesn't appear to exist 🤔 19:49:26 <pickpacket> the "set newgrf_developer_tools 1" command doesn't do anything either 🤔 19:51:08 <pickpacket> ah, found the dev tools now. It doesn't look like they can help with this 20:03:49 <pickpacket> hm. I just had a thought. Does a NewGRF have to include callbacks? 20:05:39 <nielsm> you can make things in newgrf without using callbacks 20:05:49 <nielsm> but many of the interesting things you can do are only possible with callbacks 20:06:39 <Brickblock1> Graphics are usually done with callbacks but I think true grf hides that 20:08:21 <petern> Are you sure about that? 20:09:32 <petern> What's the callback ID for drawing graphics? 20:10:03 <pickpacket> the yaml files generated by TrueGRF contain no callbacks at all for me, which makes sense since I haven't added any 20:10:05 <nielsm> that's the graphics id 20:11:03 <pickpacket> I'd love to see some documentation on callbacks in yaml format if you have any links 20:11:56 <pickpacket> or whatever this syntax is: https://github.com/bjornwarmedal/trying-to-figure-stuff-out/blob/main/industries/assembly-plant.yaml 20:12:16 *** felix has joined #openttd 20:12:16 *** felix_ has quit IRC 20:13:22 <pickpacket> oh! nvm. TrueGRF has its own thingy 20:23:07 <andythenorth> hmm 20:23:30 * andythenorth such FIRS 20:29:39 <pickpacket> andythenorth: you probably know everything about callbacks :D I was just about to copy paste the callback from https://github.com/bjornwarmedal/trying-to-figure-stuff-out/blob/main/industries/assembly-plant.yaml and adapt as well as I can to my NewGRF to try that, but it struck me that I have to check the FIRS license first XD 20:30:07 <andythenorth> GPL 20:30:08 <andythenorth> v2 20:30:46 <pickpacket> andythenorth: do you know if callbacks are required for a newgrf to work? 20:31:07 <andythenorth> callbacks are not required to make a basic newgrf 20:31:36 <pickpacket> then it's probably not that that's wrong 20:32:05 <pickpacket> what exactly is a .grf file? Some sort of archive format? Compressed? 20:33:15 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 20:34:00 <andythenorth> I think it's some sort of bytecode for a VM that runs in the game, but I actually don't know 20:34:09 <andythenorth> "does anybody know"? 😛 20:44:41 <nielsm> you can call it a GRF file a kind of archive, where each entry has an id number (no names) and can be either a graphical sprite or a data item 20:45:34 <nielsm> the original GRF format from Transport Tycoon only had graphics in it, TTDPatch invented the pseudo sprites to describe the sprites contained in GRF files that extended the original game data (NewGRFs) 20:47:11 <nielsm> every pseudo sprite is an "action", and loading a NewGRF file is actually executing all the actions in order, where some actions might cause following sprites to get skipped, or get loaded as data instead of being executed 20:47:49 <nielsm> and most actions cause some game data to be added or modified 20:50:38 <petern> var action chains are the closest to a "bytecode" but not really. 20:52:10 <petern> Okay, release button to apply gui scale works a lot better 😄 20:52:56 <FLHerne> pickpacket: you can read the grf specs here, but it's a fairly annoying domain-specific bytecode https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Main_Page 20:53:31 <FLHerne> there's a reason people keep inventing things like m4nfo and nml and py-grf and now TrueGRF so they don't have to actually write it 20:54:25 <petern> GRF wasn't meant to be written directly, that's why NFO exists, so you can enter it as sequences of 2-digit hexadecimal values instead 😉 20:54:38 <FLHerne> well, those are the NFO specs, I can't remember where the grf container spec is 21:27:05 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 21:49:04 <petern> Okay, I have a sherry cask, a peaty, and a smokey whisky. I wonder which one to open. 21:50:09 <pickpacket> petern: sherry cask. Sounds nice for a Sunday evening 21:50:37 <pickpacket> Save the smokey for a Friday night post-work-week-wind-down 21:51:34 <petern> Excellent 21:53:27 * pickpacket is trying to figure out what's wrong with his NewGRF but comes up empty 21:53:34 <pickpacket> well... it's bedtime anyway 21:53:57 <petern> Blame NewGRF. I would. 21:56:50 <reldred> Blame all the choices in life that have led you to this moment. 22:04:34 <pickpacket> Haha 2022-09-