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11:14:32 <petern> Why is maximum map height a cheat? 11:15:40 <pickpacket> who says it is? 11:15:58 <petern> The Cheats system. 12:02:57 <LordAro> i suppose it was part of the difficulty system 12:03:12 <LordAro> so changing it would be cheating 12:03:31 <petern> No, it was never a thing when we only had 15 height levels. 12:04:45 <LordAro> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 12:04:59 <LordAro> what does git blame tell you? 12:08:17 <petern> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/commit/7b27a28f0a961f23b2998b65a06723fcfc3a3535 12:08:49 <petern> "this is a cheat because of the fact that it needs to reset NewGRF game state and doing so as a simple configuration breaks the expectation of many" 12:08:51 <petern> Heh 13:43:21 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 13:57:42 <supermop_toil> yo 14:18:52 <petern> lo 14:28:07 <petern> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1024326579154849842/unknown.png 14:28:07 <petern> Such license 14:44:44 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 14:53:33 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 15:12:56 <FLHerne> clearly authored by The Winslow 15:18:31 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 15:28:03 *** geli has joined #openttd 15:30:53 <supermop_toil> ugh now i have to figure out gantt or kanban or some nonsense 15:32:19 <supermop_toil> i guess the little cards can't have dependencies, that's the whole point? 15:51:06 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Bouke opened pull request #10055: Fix: reduce framerate overhead on train ticks https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10055 16:35:26 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Bouke updated pull request #10055: Fix: reduce framerate overhead on train ticks https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10055 16:39:26 *** virtualrandomnumber has joined #openttd 16:39:43 *** virtualrandomnumber has quit IRC 16:41:05 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #10055: Fix: reduce framerate overhead in Train::Tick https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10055#issuecomment-1259772784 16:42:35 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 17:06:03 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on pull request #10055: Fix: reduce framerate overhead in Train::Tick https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10055#issuecomment-1259801203 17:16:28 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #10055: Fix: reduce framerate overhead in Train::Tick https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10055#issuecomment-1259812643 17:17:18 <pickpacket> Okay! I have a few hours before bedtime. Going to try to get a grip on NML or NFO... not sure which is best to start with 17:18:47 <frosch> https://www.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NMLTutorial#Example <- that should help you with the decision :p 17:22:16 <petern> 😄 17:22:53 <petern> I like that the special NFO escape sequences are just as cryptic as the hex values... 17:24:43 <pickpacket> uhm... yeaaaahhh... NML it is. 17:25:01 <frosch> maybe the nfo should be indented, to make the comparison slightly more fair 17:25:32 <pickpacket> One question before I dive in: my goal is to add one new industry to the game. Not an entire set, just the one. Is that possible? 17:25:33 <petern> That sounds like commenting to me. 17:26:31 <frosch> yes, the default is to add more stuff. disabling original stuff is an extra step 17:28:25 <andythenorth> unless you redefine an existing ID? 17:28:38 <andythenorth> or did we give them their own per-grf IDs now? 17:28:56 <frosch> industries always had local ids 17:29:15 <frosch> cargos have global ids, but 32-63 are free by default 17:30:15 <frosch> cargo ids could also have been local, but the 64 limit is pretty hard, and firs uses all of them, so there is not really a point in trying to make them local 17:30:43 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Bouke commented on pull request #10055: Fix: reduce framerate overhead in Train::Tick https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10055#issuecomment-1259829524 17:32:26 <andythenorth> I didn't quite use all of them yet 😛 17:32:28 <andythenorth> give me time though 17:32:35 <andythenorth> I feel it's achievable 😛 17:33:26 <andythenorth> https://grf.farm/firs/steeltown-end-game-3/html/economies.html#steeltown 17:33:40 <andythenorth> also I am experimenting with adding more cargo nodes on cargo edges 17:34:02 <andythenorth> it might increase legibility for reader, and it seems to sometimes aid graphviz placement 17:34:17 <andythenorth> but this being graphviz, an improvement in one direction is probably worse in another 🙂 17:37:19 <frosch> did you consider adding a "custom" economy, with grf settings to enable/disable individual industries? :p 17:37:26 <frosch> or is that what truegrf is for 17:37:52 *** xordspar0 has quit IRC 17:38:37 <andythenorth> truegrf 17:38:58 <andythenorth> I have been asked to turn FIRS into an economy maker 17:39:08 <andythenorth> with parameters to turn each industry/cargo on/off 17:39:16 <supermop_toil> D: 17:39:19 <andythenorth> and then probably set the name 17:39:27 <andythenorth> and change the input and output cargos and ratios 17:39:41 <andythenorth> "I'm sure that it would be fine" 17:39:59 <supermop_toil> Feature request: remove any and all fun from FIRS? 17:40:32 <andythenorth> honestly, this Steeltown remake might be doing that 😛 17:40:54 <andythenorth> it's not the goal, but I might accidentally be turning it into a confusing chore 17:41:53 <frosch> hmm, is XIS new enough to have >32 cargos and >2 output cargos? 17:41:59 <frosch> or is steeltown now more complicated? 17:42:05 <andythenorth> not sure 🙂 17:42:08 <andythenorth> try it? 😛 17:42:35 <petern> Hmm, is it possible to either start up a GS in an existing game, or reset all the conditions a previous GS set on towns? 17:42:42 <andythenorth> not that I know of 17:42:50 <petern> Absurd 17:42:53 <andythenorth> have to restart in my experience 17:43:00 <andythenorth> it's one of the reasons I didn't do FIRS GS yet 17:43:05 <frosch> 62 cargos 17:43:05 <andythenorth> dev really sucks 17:43:17 <andythenorth> if the GS is supposed to work with industries and cargos 17:43:27 <andythenorth> and testing it means making a complicated savegame 17:43:56 <andythenorth> hmm can GS accept console events? 17:44:09 <andythenorth> I could write a GS that is modular and designed to be re-initialised during game 17:45:09 <frosch> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1024376163294003342/unknown.png 17:45:09 <frosch> such a firs hack 🙂 17:45:34 <andythenorth> quite funny 17:45:40 <frosch> there is the script-commuincation protocol, which uses signs to communicate 17:45:42 *** xordspar0 has joined #openttd 17:45:49 <andythenorth> how about just a script console? 😛 17:45:52 <petern> haha 17:45:53 <andythenorth> admin port maybe? 17:45:56 <frosch> you could implement ttdp sign cheats as gs 17:46:59 <andythenorth> oh can I just make storybook page with buttons? 17:47:03 <andythenorth> 'reset everything' 17:47:04 <andythenorth> etc 17:47:14 <frosch> looks like xis is 3-in-2-out only 17:47:34 <frosch> i guess that's what storybook is for 17:47:46 <frosch> not sure whether anyone really used it 17:49:36 <andythenorth> it's all good, until the bug is in my story book code 😛 17:50:05 <andythenorth> a long time ago I wrote my own flash-game resetter because I didn't understand how to use a debugger 17:50:12 <andythenorth> it could inspect any variable and change the value 17:50:31 <andythenorth> but also in flash, during debug, you could move the frame etc 17:50:36 <FLHerne> so you can have base FIRS with a fairly minimal economy, and then add on FIRS Chemicals and FIRS Metals if you want to do Steeltown 17:50:41 <andythenorth> and a lot of the state lived in frames 17:50:45 <andythenorth> was really powerful 17:50:54 <FLHerne> then give each grf a complexity parameter :p 17:51:07 <FLHerne> and the whole thing explodes in combinatorial madness, but whatever 17:51:32 <frosch> i think the in-game industry-chain window needs a zoom-out button 17:51:54 <frosch> steeltown is just too much for it 17:56:04 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on pull request #10055: Fix: reduce framerate overhead in Train::Tick https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10055#issuecomment-1259858970 18:00:16 <andythenorth> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1024379966357524580/unknown.png 18:00:16 <andythenorth> I guess the boxes have to be large to allow for many inputs 18:00:58 <petern> They do scale depending on how many there are. 18:01:11 <petern> But all boxes are the same size, so whatever the largest one is... 18:02:44 <frosch> the lines are also kind of thick 18:02:48 <frosch> half would do 18:06:36 <petern> Yeah, I think some of our UIs have been built with 2x zoom in mind, so the dimensions are off when I start scaling them 🙂 18:10:25 * petern tests 18:13:48 <petern> Maybe the outlines aren't even needed 18:14:43 <petern> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1024383594518560798/unknown.png 18:14:43 <petern> Width is set to the font height, this is with 5 pixels (scaled, so 10 here) 18:18:25 <petern> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1024384533975543878/unknown.png 18:18:25 <petern> Borderless lines, looks okay to me, although a few 1 pixel gaps to tweak. 18:19:56 <andythenorth> borderless is fine until I choose the cargo colour that matches the background 🙂 18:20:02 <andythenorth> in all other cases it looks better 18:20:48 <petern> if (colour.is.chosenby.andythenorth) drawlines() 18:21:12 <andythenorth> we could just remap it 😛 18:21:15 <LordAro> strange nested object 18:21:21 <petern> Game would need to know about similar palette colours, not sure it has any knowledge of that. 18:21:36 <andythenorth> I think I assign the colours algorithmically anyway 18:22:00 <petern> Make the window background cycle through different colours. 18:22:19 <petern> We're good a needlessly redrawing windows 😄 18:22:29 <frosch> there is some method to pick white/black font color depending on a background color 18:23:14 <frosch> the yellow borders are weird, but i prefer them over no borders 18:23:19 <andythenorth> truegrf could just ban that cargo colour 18:23:32 <andythenorth> all this choosing colours crap 😛 18:23:40 <andythenorth> let the game do it 😛 18:23:42 <petern> Oh we do have GetContrastColour(), nice. 18:24:06 <andythenorth> I would be quite happy to delegate to the game, with the existing grf stuff as an optional over-ride 18:24:48 <andythenorth> oh wait, this is old lady who swallowed a fly 😛 18:24:50 <andythenorth> sorry 18:25:49 <petern> Universal rule of Minecraft: when you join a server it will be night time. 18:26:00 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 18:26:05 <andythenorth> night time in OpenTTD 18:28:31 * andythenorth BBL, going outside 18:28:34 <andythenorth> worst game ever 18:28:38 <andythenorth> but has beer with RL people 18:31:22 <petern> Right to left back to front up to down people. 18:32:20 <petern> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1024388038618533888/unknown.png 18:32:20 <petern> andythenorth: Look at those colours you chose... 18:32:59 <petern> (Yes, it's tiny, but that's because 1x is always tiny) 18:35:03 <LordAro> yeah, think we need the outlines :p 18:37:53 <supermop_toil> andythenorth: your boat is outside my window come get it please 18:42:34 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 18:44:10 *** Smedles has quit IRC 18:47:24 <pickpacket> is there a pre-compiled binary of NML for python 3? 18:48:20 <pickpacket> I get the feeling that https://www.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NMLTutorial/Installation is a tiny bit outdated 18:49:42 <JGR> NML is already written for python 3 18:49:52 <Wolf01> Meh, I'm a wreck 18:49:56 <JGR> It's a script, you don't need to compile it into a binary 18:50:48 <pickpacket> JGR: yeah... the tutorial installation instructions are outdated then 18:51:25 <JGR> The installation instructions are here: https://github.com/OpenTTD/nml 18:51:31 <pickpacket> where do I get it? pip install? 18:51:35 <pickpacket> ah! Thanks 19:02:12 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/commit/d843c8bd489082357f3f5a7e6a9fe77fbe5c18e1 19:02:13 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators) 19:06:14 *** Smedles has joined #openttd 19:28:46 *** Etua has joined #openttd 19:29:07 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #10056: Change: Tweak cargo acceptance text display https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10056 19:31:59 <petern> Heh, commit from May 2021, I sit on these things for a while 😉 19:36:26 *** Flygon has quit IRC 19:38:44 <LordAro> nice 19:39:02 <LordAro> are these building towards your scaling stuff? 19:42:46 <petern> Yes. My scaling stuff improves spacing and padding of many bits, and prefers to let the widget system handle things. It doesn't even depend on the non-integer scaling stuff which I originally added just to see if it's possible... but that is really nice too 🙂 19:43:52 <petern> The little patch to highlight widget outlines is really useful for working out what's going on 🙂 19:44:27 <petern> Also I noticed my almost-brand-new stupidly bright bike like is scuffed now 😦 19:56:39 *** gelignite has quit IRC 20:05:14 <petern> Hmm, weird, some text in the Story Book window is letter-wrapped rather than word wrapped. 20:06:14 <andythenorth> petern: https://tenor.com/view/freaking-out-frustrated-the-simpsons-bart-lisa-gif-5514662 20:09:18 <petern> Seems to be the first word after a colour change. 20:11:51 <LordAro> petern: that patch could be useful bundled into ctrl+b ? 20:12:15 <petern> I've got it on Ctrl-Shift-O, hah 20:12:24 <LordAro> or whatever the 'show bounding boxes' key combo is 20:12:43 <petern> I think putting in on the same one would be annoying. 20:15:05 <LordAro> fair 20:20:51 <petern> Hmm, it's the fallback layouter, as with uniscribe it works fine. 20:25:36 *** Etua has quit IRC 20:27:06 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 20:32:52 <petern> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1024418371397226527/unknown.png 20:33:44 <petern> So basically when it switches from one run to the nex