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2022-11-1810:55:50 <pickpacket> can someone recommend a vehicle set that adds just few more vehicles to the game? I'm just using the base ones and the generic tram set so far. Especially ships are quite boring 10:56:51 <andythenorth> Iron Horse 😛 10:57:14 <andythenorth> only adds 858 vehicles, quite minimalist 11:12:23 <Pruple> Hardly any really 11:14:11 <EmperorJake> For ships, maybe try NewShips if Shark/Sam are too much 11:15:07 <EmperorJake> For RVs, I often recommend Mop RV as it's in the vanilla style but there's a lot more choice, but it might be too extensive for what you're looking for 11:16:34 <andythenorth> there's always OGFX+ sets 11:16:45 <andythenorth> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=50420 11:16:56 <andythenorth> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=51326#:~:text=OpenGFX%2B%20Road%20Vehicles%20enhances%20default,to%20match%20the%20OpenGFX%20style.&text=What%20is%20included%3F,as%20ECS%2C%20PBI%20or%20FIRS. 11:18:24 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 11:20:07 <andythenorth> hmm 11:20:18 <andythenorth> idea for stupid game mechanic 11:20:33 <andythenorth> if the town is happy, station ratings increase 11:23:24 <petern> Morning 11:23:44 <petern> Post-ride protein bar for breakfast, oops 11:24:29 <pickpacket> andythenorth: what would make a city happy? 11:24:41 <andythenorth> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1043486972775256064/image.png 11:24:41 <andythenorth> petern: chunky industry colour blocks 11:24:46 <andythenorth> looks nice 11:25:21 <andythenorth> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1043487139809206302/image.png 11:25:21 <andythenorth> cargo flow ... should be chunky? 11:25:39 <andythenorth> pickpacket: delivering goods, food etc 11:26:05 <pickpacket> andythenorth: isn't that what increases station ratings though? :) 11:26:15 <andythenorth> I first considered giving industries an 'efficiency' factor, so that happy towns mean 100% efficient 11:26:20 <petern> Maybe 11:26:27 <pickpacket> so increased station ratings -> increased happiness -> GOTO 1 11:26:38 <andythenorth> but the game already has a super awesome, elon musk level bestness of deleting 30% of cargo produced by industries 😛 11:26:41 <petern> pickpacket: To make the game fun, and short. 11:26:54 <pickpacket> haha yeah 11:27:03 <petern> Which is needed for a live stream 11:27:19 <andythenorth> or for playing with friends 11:27:29 <petern> Either quick fun game, or long-term planning play 11:27:49 <petern> I don't have friends so that's ok 11:27:59 <andythenorth> petern: but you have us! 11:28:04 <andythenorth> it's like friends, but different 11:28:25 <andythenorth> I think we should change how we review PRs: there should be a heading for 'would Elon suggest this?' 11:28:35 <andythenorth> and all our PRs should require a screenshot of the actual code 11:29:22 <petern> Ban him 11:29:44 <andythenorth> how about a message for 'prospecting failed'? 11:29:51 <andythenorth> I mean..it's obvious and all you can do is click again 11:29:55 <andythenorth> but sometimes it seems broken 11:31:06 <andythenorth> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1043488585556426802/unknown.png 11:31:06 <andythenorth> maybe we should have an animation popup 11:35:34 <Pruple> ok so 11:35:41 <Pruple> mops instead of hogs? 11:36:45 <andythenorth> praps 11:36:51 <reldred> mawp 11:36:59 <Pruple> aces high, gronks wild? 11:37:01 <reldred> mops is good 11:37:05 <Pruple> dealer must stand on a box 11:40:23 <Pruple> firs with double enhanced/gung ho? 11:41:01 <andythenorth> yes yes 11:41:08 <andythenorth> Arctic Basic was the best badger? 11:41:13 <Pruple> I think so 11:41:13 <andythenorth> also reindeer 11:41:17 <andythenorth> christmas theme 11:41:21 <Pruple> oh 11:41:32 <andythenorth> I should make it feature rudolph 11:42:09 <Pruple> transport 10k rudolphs in 5 years 11:42:21 <andythenorth> reindeer -> stockyard 11:42:26 <andythenorth> -> sausages 11:45:31 <Pruple> glow in the dark rudolph sausages 11:45:34 <Pruple> yum 11:45:50 <andythenorth> the best 11:45:55 <LordAro> is this still english? 11:46:57 <andythenorth> rudolph isn't English silly 11:46:59 <andythenorth> Finnish 11:47:09 <andythenorth> no reindeer wild in England 11:47:47 <petern> andythenorth: Bug report? 11:48:55 <andythenorth> looking if we have one already 11:48:59 <andythenorth> surprisingly, no 11:49:07 <Pruple> such road trains in mop rv 11:49:49 <andythenorth> found this https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/2445 11:52:00 <petern> Is it totally random now? 11:52:45 <petern> I ache. Too old for cycling hard 😦 11:54:36 <Eddi|zuHause> somehow whenever someone mentions reindeer, my first thought is the "mom is santa" commercial 11:55:09 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth opened issue #10181: [Bug]: no message to player when industry prospecting fails https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/10181 11:55:43 <andythenorth> petern: not sure, wonder if it does anything weird like favour tiles nearer the start of the map array 11:56:17 <andythenorth> 'prospect near' would be nice, but I could just do that in FIRS? 11:56:22 <Pruple> invariably the way I use prospect is to hit it a dozen times, then hit delete to close the message popups... I assume that's typical of most players 11:56:26 <andythenorth> 100% of players use FIRS, yes? 11:56:47 <Pruple> pro players use XIS, it is more 11:57:16 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: more like 0.1% 11:57:29 <Pruple> so I put a server up if you want to see if this works 11:57:37 <andythenorth> but we won't fix anything in the game if it can be fixed in grf 11:57:50 <andythenorth> so 99.9% of players can't access fixes? 11:57:57 <andythenorth> Pruple: yes 11:57:59 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i don't think how newgrf could solve that in a reasonable way 11:58:02 <andythenorth> I should get headphones for words 11:58:05 <Pruple> server is "the five year plan", password is rudolph 11:58:13 <Pruple> words is here or on other server? 11:58:19 <Eddi|zuHause> s/think/see 11:58:44 <Eddi|zuHause> / 11:59:36 <Eddi|zuHause> (also, it's not a fix, it's a feature request) 11:59:49 <andythenorth> Pruple: your server? 11:59:55 <andythenorth> otherwise we get people trying to talk? 12:00:07 <Pruple> si 12:00:21 <Pruple> I think I've actually got it set up correctly this time so I can hear you too 12:01:14 <andythenorth> hurrah 12:01:35 <andythenorth> oh missing grfs 😦 12:01:37 <andythenorth> such Sam 12:01:47 <Pruple> is it? 12:01:52 <andythenorth> found it 12:01:53 <andythenorth> weird grf 12:02:41 <Pruple> sam? 12:10:25 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 12:38:47 <andythenorth> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1043505621108019320/image.png 12:38:53 <andythenorth> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1043505644252172359/image.png 12:40:48 <petern> Illegal 12:52:32 <Pruple> gunge hunge 12:52:44 <Pruple> but no saucy bevels 12:53:06 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 12:56:42 <andythenorth> we won 13:17:16 <petern> I do, of course, have a patch for that. 13:19:08 <andythenorth> winning? 13:20:24 <petern> Yeah, if (player == andythenorth) lose(); 13:23:07 <Pruple> such wide rivers 13:23:21 <Pruple> if only they were bevels 13:25:39 <andythenorth> Pruple: back in 5 mins probly 13:25:48 <andythenorth> such next game 13:25:50 <Pruple> okay, server is up again 13:25:59 <Pruple> going to get coffee or something 13:26:30 <Pruple> scrubbles: can build the trams this time 13:26:38 <ag[d]> Which FIRS economy is this one 13:26:47 <Pruple> arctic basic 13:26:55 <ag[d]> Oh right Arctic basic 13:29:55 <andythenorth> be better competitive 13:29:59 <andythenorth> moar teams! 13:31:34 <andythenorth> anyone joining? 13:31:37 <andythenorth> takes about an hour or so 13:35:44 <andythenorth> also 13.0 beta 2 when? 😛 13:35:50 <andythenorth> can't be looking at these non-bevels any more 13:38:49 <petern> When I PR these changes 13:38:59 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 13:40:14 <Pruple> what's the go, then? 13:40:24 <Pruple> server is up, 5 years full conk 13:42:25 <andythenorth> am in 13:43:13 <Pruple> let's 13:44:56 <andythenorth> petern: join the server pls 13:45:01 <andythenorth> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1043522289066573884/image.png 13:45:05 <andythenorth> needs to be chunkier 13:45:08 <andythenorth> ^ 14:18:27 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 14:19:02 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 14:21:04 <andythenorth> ok so 14:21:22 <andythenorth> if yogscast audience could donate to plant objects 14:21:34 <andythenorth> they could pay to ruin the game on the stream 14:21:45 <andythenorth> by filling the map in with unremovables 14:22:05 <andythenorth> can we make that possible? 14:23:16 *** sla_ro|master2 has joined #openttd 14:25:07 <dP> should already be possible 14:25:16 <andythenorth> via the admin port... 14:25:32 <dP> donations -> admin port -> gs -> objects 14:28:15 <dP> I should add that to citymania and sell servers 😜 14:29:06 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 14:29:58 <andythenorth> yes 14:30:02 <andythenorth> or for charity 😛 14:30:02 <Pruple> what did you do 14:30:13 <andythenorth> I wanted to write Elon in the sea 14:30:17 <andythenorth> but I got bored 14:30:23 <dP> oh, desync 14:30:29 <dP> did nothing 14:30:37 <Pruple> andy you broke openttd 14:30:41 <andythenorth> I deleted an object 14:31:25 <Pruple> and it desynced everyone on the server... oops 🙂 14:31:43 <andythenorth> I am good at breaking things 14:31:55 <dP> I don't even see the server now is it still running? 14:32:00 <Pruple> no it isn't 15:14:44 *** supermop_Home has joined #openttd 15:17:31 <petern> andythenorth: haha 15:18:39 <TallTyler> andythenorth: I’ll be around most of today and tomorrow if you want to chat about Jingle Jam stuff 15:27:02 <petern> Hmm, time for beer? 15:28:41 <Pruple> yes 15:28:47 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 15:29:27 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 15:41:37 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 15:48:24 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 15:51:48 *** scrubbles has joined #openttd 15:51:48 <scrubbles> jingle sam 15:53:07 <Pruple> jingle bevel 16:06:28 <petern> Oh no 17:19:30 *** Borg has joined #openttd 17:25:22 *** Flygon has quit IRC 18:09:50 <andythenorth> chunky jam 18:13:50 <TallTyler> Yo? 18:14:08 <andythenorth> Yo 18:14:48 <TallTyler> Did you resolve your jingle questions? 18:16:22 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 18:16:28 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 18:17:25 <andythenorth> started, didn't finish 🙂 18:17:49 <TallTyler> Still need my help? 18:17:53 <andythenorth> maybe 🙂 18:18:07 <TallTyler> Ok, just let me know 🙂 18:18:12 <andythenorth> wanted to pass on that Lewis had played IotC also and thought it was fun 🙂 18:18:29 <andythenorth> said it was fun to see the game changed so much 18:18:31 <pickpacket> I have three trams running the same line between two stations. They tend to lump up. What do I do to space them out evenly? 18:18:31 <TallTyler> 😊 18:18:51 <andythenorth> ok so JJ game settings suggestion is in hand 18:19:01 <andythenorth> but the idea of encouraging donations by game actions 18:19:04 <andythenorth> via the admin port 18:19:06 <andythenorth> is really nice 18:19:11 <andythenorth> but I have NFI how that is done 18:19:51 <andythenorth> I guess they're using https://help.twitch.tv/s/article/twitch-charity?language=en_US 18:20:12 <andythenorth> or something like it 18:20:50 <andythenorth> also whether we could post out e.g. GS results from the game to the feed 18:21:30 <TallTyler> Me neither, but there might be possibilities besides spamming objects (which would also require choosing a tile to place said object on). Donate $n to have a train named after your username (to avoid rude names), perhaps 18:22:42 <TallTyler> to change the company colour 18:22:49 <dP> there are servers that post results in the discord 18:23:15 <dP> I could do that too just don't want 18:23:33 <TallTyler> Can it go the other way, to make changes in the game? 18:23:47 <dP> it can 18:24:22 <dP> well, idk how to do that "officially" via admin port either 18:24:29 <dP> but with patched server it's np 18:24:36 <andythenorth> yes renaming vehicles and renaming towns would be a thing 18:24:42 <andythenorth> they've done towns before, manually 18:25:08 <andythenorth> rude messages, they're not very worried, they can always fix 18:28:20 *** m3henry has joined #openttd 18:28:40 <andythenorth> dP: offer a patched server for jingle jam? 😛 18:28:43 <andythenorth> dunno 18:28:50 <andythenorth> can GS read from the web? 18:28:53 <andythenorth> I guess not 18:29:06 <andythenorth> would be quite an attack vector 😛 18:29:11 <m3henry> pickpacket: Timetables are for that purpose: https://wiki.openttd.org/en/Manual/Timetable 18:30:19 <pickpacket> m3henry: yeah, but they seem really fiddly and prone to f-ups. :/ I wish there was a "space vehicles sharing orders evenly" 18:30:49 <TallTyler> I wonder how difficult it would be (not for this year’s stream of course) to have some kind of public spectator mode where the spectator limit doesn’t apply and spectators can’t even send messages. Like a web server running a read-only copy of the game. Synchronizing would probably be an issue… 18:30:53 <m3henry> train fever / transport fever does that for all vehicles on a route that don't have a load until full order 18:31:09 <andythenorth> TallTyler: would be interesting 18:31:24 <andythenorth> I wondered about 'play against YC' mode, but sharded, with a web high score table 18:31:28 <andythenorth> but we don't have time 😛 18:32:06 <andythenorth> multiple servers, all synchronised to start game ~simultaneously 18:33:17 <Olionkey> speaking of jingle jam stuff I think Klutz was recommending some stuff to the Spiffing brit team 18:33:57 <TallTyler> They’d have to be separate games without a ghost mode to avoid building on the same tile, but would totally be possible. I think Master Hellish does that with some of his series 18:34:06 <andythenorth> a long time ago, when GS was invented, frosch was tracking high scores in the wiki 18:34:25 <andythenorth> but it would be quite nice to have a monthly GS game running 18:34:39 <andythenorth> multiple servers, anybody can join and start any time 18:34:43 <TallTyler> Official monthly challenge? 18:34:46 <andythenorth> short GS games, a few hours 18:34:48 <pickpacket> is the spiff going to play OpenTTD for this year's JJ? 18:34:56 <TallTyler> Like Mini Metro daily challenge? 18:35:06 <andythenorth> probably something like that 18:35:20 <TallTyler> Sounds like something nobody would want to maintain 😛 18:35:34 <andythenorth> pickpacket, I don't know who's playing but OpenTTD will be the JJ opener 18:35:45 <pickpacket> :D 18:35:51 <pickpacket> When and where can I watch it? 18:35:56 <andythenorth> 1 Dec 18:36:01 <pickpacket> I.e. watch someone streaming the event 18:37:17 <dP> andythenorth: I'd like to but wouldn't be able to code things before 1 dec 18:37:26 <andythenorth> fair 18:37:34 <pickpacket> Did this patch never make it into the game? https://bugs.openttd.org/task/1128 18:37:52 <dP> TallTyler: that's pretty easy actually, just send the game and all network commands to the web 18:38:07 <dP> I was thinking of doing it but tmwftlb 18:38:23 <TallTyler> Timetable separation exists in JGRPP but nobody has taken the time to upstream it to vanilla yet. It’s on my list of things I want to do eventually. 18:39:50 <pickpacket> TallTyler: <3 18:39:57 <dP> andythenorth: that's kinda like citymania works except map is random because doesn't matter much and it's nice to have some variety 18:40:02 <dP> can always make it the same ofc 18:41:16 <dP> was also thinking of making some monthly challenges as well xD 18:41:25 <dP> not quite that way though 18:41:57 <andythenorth> how does Citymania work? 😮 18:42:18 <andythenorth> I only ever talked to you about gameplay stuff / patches, not how Citymania runs challenges 18:42:36 <andythenorth> so does everyone get the same map, but play async? 18:42:50 <dP> there are highscore tables on the web for each game mode <https://citymania.org/goal/52/best-scores> 18:43:01 *** m3henry has quit IRC 18:43:04 <andythenorth> yeah I saw those before 🙂 18:43:12 <dP> map is different but it's generated in a way that it doesn't matter much 18:43:23 <dP> you can beat highscores on pretty much every map 18:43:41 <dP> i.e. all towns are generated with the same number of houses in cb 18:45:34 <andythenorth> neat 18:45:58 <andythenorth> monthly GS game 😛 18:46:05 *** m3henry has joined #openttd 18:46:58 <dP> I did some events on citymania but they weren't very popular :( 18:47:03 <dP> <https://citymania.org/events/5-christmas-event-2021> last one 18:47:38 <andythenorth> 3 players 18:47:45 <andythenorth> I see 🙂 18:48:02 <dP> well, I also played just didn't include in scores xD 18:49:06 <dP> was trying hard not to win my own event but failed 🤣 18:49:47 <andythenorth> nobody here ever wants to join our Pruple games either 😛 18:49:50 <andythenorth> nvm 18:50:10 <Olionkey> Most people just join the jgr servers 18:50:19 <dP> cargo goals are kinda boring imo 18:58:24 <TallTyler> I’d join if you didn’t play in the middle of the night 😛 19:00:36 <petern> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1043601705587191998/image.png 19:00:36 <petern> Almost 19:02:31 <andythenorth> TallTyler: asynchronous challenge server 😛 19:06:17 *** Borg has quit IRC 19:06:30 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LC-Zorg opened issue #10182: [Detail]: Permissive Local Authorities - improper, confusing order of options in the settings window https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/10182 19:07:00 <petern> Heh, so when you toggle the cheat, the lines become taller, and so does the panel, as expected. The unexpected bit is it eats into the viewport widget rather than adjusting the window size 😄 19:07:30 <andythenorth> then if you toggle the cheat off 19:07:40 <andythenorth> the viewport remains smaller 19:07:49 <andythenorth> or something 19:08:08 <andythenorth> ^ Zorg is right 1 in 10 times, this is one of them 😛 19:08:14 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on issue #10182: [Detail]: Permissive Local Authorities - improper, confusing order of options in the settings window https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/10182 19:09:48 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LC-Zorg opened issue #10183: [Bug]: Permissive local authorities - inconsistent reactions in relation to the assessment of the company https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/10183 19:11:22 <andythenorth> no idea what that's about 19:13:29 <TallTyler> Yeah I’m stumped 19:14:38 <TallTyler> Oh, maybe it’s about the rating still changing even though it no longer restricts company actions 19:15:26 <TallTyler> As for the order of the settings, I guess I could do some saveload magic to re-order the settings? 19:17:57 <JGR> That creates issues with openttd.cfg 19:18:48 <JGR> It's much simpler overall to just populate the dropdown in a different order with the same values 19:21:10 <andythenorth> ++ 19:21:31 <andythenorth> abstracting dropdowns for order is probably the major part of any UI engineering job 😛 19:22:02 <andythenorth> 95% of my grf code is just about controlling the order of things 😛 19:22:16 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #10184: Fix: Indent production in industry window and resolve button issues. https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10184 19:22:41 <JGR> It's really not a major thing to re-order dropdowns 19:22:51 <petern> I didn't look 😉 19:23:21 <andythenorth> in my life, it's usually one line of code 😛 19:23:40 <andythenorth> often said, but rarely true 😛 19:24:41 <TallTyler> Is that true in OpenTTD though? I thought the only dropdown control we have is the flag in the `_settings.ini` file 19:25:04 <JGR> You're allowed to add more flags 19:25:17 <JGR> You have commit powers now, be bold 😛 19:25:37 <petern> That... doesn't change much 🙂 19:25:52 <TallTyler> Is there an example of manually ordered dropdowns anywhere else in the game? 19:26:40 <JGR> Most of them outside the settings window 19:27:00 <petern> It's just a vector of some *ListItems 19:27:53 <JGR> For what it's worth I've got various settings with re-ordered or discontinuous values in my branch, it is useful at times 19:29:51 <TallTyler> I’ll have to take a look at how you’ve implemented that 20:22:28 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc approved pull request #10184: Fix: Indent production in industry window and resolve button issues. https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10184#pullrequestreview-1187117107 20:56:16 <petern> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NI0rDaEpTvI> 21:00:32 *** nielsm has q2022-11-20T21:16: