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10:35:25 <andythenorth> is it time for PeterPP? 10:43:01 <petern> Absolutely not. 10:43:26 <petern> In fact we need to make vanilla the primary patching target again. 10:53:42 <andythenorth> VanillaPP 😛 11:30:00 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 11:33:20 <dP> nice goal, but I don't see how are you going to achieve that 11:33:35 <dP> big patchpacks seem to just be pulling further and further 11:38:00 <JGR> Still, it would make sense for more core/uncontroversial stuff to be upstreamed 11:38:56 <dP> uncontroversial stuff exists? 😜 11:39:02 <andythenorth> some 11:39:09 <LordAro> very much agreed 11:39:37 <LordAro> the trouble is a) finding the uncontroversial stuff & b) unpicking it from whatever patchpack it's currently in 11:42:48 <andythenorth> some of it's easy 11:43:10 <andythenorth> a lot of JGRPP stuff wouldn't be a candidate, because JGRPP exists for that audience 11:43:27 <andythenorth> but stuff like 11:43:33 <andythenorth> - autoseparate 11:43:35 <andythenorth> - through load 11:43:46 <andythenorth> - multiple railtypes on one tile 11:47:25 <JGR> I'm not sure that those are "uncontroversial" 11:47:32 <dP> wonder how through load would affect goal games 11:47:52 <dP> probably not much though considering reversing exploit exists xD 11:48:31 <andythenorth> through load might be controversial 11:48:38 <andythenorth> autoseparate is not 11:48:57 <JGR> The actual details of how it works are 11:49:09 <JGR> It's an ultra bikeshedding zone 11:49:34 <andythenorth> well the current vanilla implementation is stupid and at least partially broken 11:49:44 <andythenorth> although some users report it definitely works 11:49:57 <andythenorth> might be a case of 'Y is better than X' 11:50:02 <andythenorth> even if not perfect 11:53:15 <petern> LordAro: That's why we need to be the target 11:54:02 <LordAro> indeed 11:54:05 <petern> andythenorth: When long time developers need to ask how to do it... 11:54:08 <LordAro> how do you suppose we do that? :p 11:54:42 <petern> Easy, pretend jgrpp doesn't exist ;D 11:55:03 <andythenorth> 😛 11:57:03 <petern> Hmm, I need to figure out how to deploy my custom private nuget packages properly, and then how to restore them into my custom private builds properly. 11:57:18 <petern> Maybe I should use git sub-modules instead. 11:58:02 <andythenorth> I did propose some while ago that JGRPP became the upstream 😛 11:58:02 <petern> It's even a searchable problem... <https://www.christianfindlay.com/blog/submodules-vs-nuget> 11:58:08 <petern> andythenorth: die 11:58:11 <andythenorth> JGR thought that was silly 11:58:14 <petern> I do 11:58:19 <andythenorth> yes 11:58:39 <petern> If OpenTTD itself was dead then maybe it would make sense. 11:58:48 <andythenorth> + 11:59:01 <andythenorth> but it's healthier than it has been for a long time IMHO 11:59:49 <JGR> The design goals of OpenTTD include sticking to the philosophy of the original game, or some words to that effect 12:00:23 <JGR> A lot of new stuff that is being developed does not fit into that 12:00:52 <JGR> Naturally it will end up elsewhere 12:01:22 <reldred> ConservativeTTD vs RadicalTTD 12:01:30 <reldred> * ducks * 12:01:56 <JGR> The majority of the player base is quite happy with a conservative OpenTTD 12:02:21 <reldred> Someone has to be wrong for someone to be right 😛 12:02:28 <glx[d]> Some quality of life changes are welcome of course 12:03:00 <reldred> Nah. Ultimately I’m pretty happy with how things are ticking along atm. 12:03:32 <reldred> I know I’ve been a harsh critic in the past but I’m pleased with the current situation. 12:03:47 <reldred> Or at least, the current trend 12:08:14 <petern> I have some ideas 😉 12:08:33 <petern> I should probably just play the game at some point. 12:10:03 <FLHerne> multiple rail types on one tile <- please 12:10:18 <FLHerne> that one can't be controversial, just annoying to implement 12:10:25 <reldred> Next JGRPP release I might able to actually play it, until I feel guilty I have worked on/released the next thing I’ve committed myself to. 12:10:37 <reldred> *havent 12:10:39 <FLHerne> it makes some of my lines look so ugly :-( 12:10:59 <reldred> I’ll be happy once newrocks is out the door, 12:11:52 <petern> newrocks in vanilla when? 12:12:09 <petern> Big stomping boot. 12:12:37 <reldred> More a goth thing really 12:13:13 <reldred> Alas, I must sleep 12:13:19 <reldred> / ded 12:17:56 <andythenorth> FLHerne: there's an issue about it 12:18:34 <andythenorth> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/9850 12:18:42 <FLHerne> thanks 12:19:28 <andythenorth> not quite the same thing actually but eh 12:43:36 <petern> Hmm, okay so Drone/Woodpecker need explicit instructions on where to put artifacts, so I need a separate artifact server. </learning CI> 12:51:33 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #10233: Fix #10208: don't draw underlay for road tunnels, but allow a specific one https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10233#pullrequestreview-1215408161 12:52:28 <andythenorth> so I can remove most of the 93k duplicate action 1s in Horse? 12:52:29 <andythenorth> 😛 12:52:54 <andythenorth> then add some back for stupid things 12:55:54 <petern> Why so many anyway? 12:56:06 <petern> There's only so many asymmetric engines right? 13:00:44 <andythenorth> cargo sprites on wagons 13:00:47 <andythenorth> mostly 13:01:06 <andythenorth> they're not even asymmetric, but flipping inverts the company colour 😛 13:01:13 <andythenorth> such use of resources 13:05:41 <petern> Oh so they're not duplicates. 13:06:07 <petern> Kinda. Hmm. 13:08:11 <andythenorth> it's recolour sprites, so they're 100% pointless duplicates 😛 13:08:22 <petern> Ah 13:08:26 <andythenorth> except ya know....the instructions to work around flipping 😛 13:08:51 <andythenorth> hmm variants for inverting company colour? 😛 13:10:40 <petern> Cargo subtype refit. 13:11:09 <petern> If they're 8/8 wagons you can at least not dup the sprites. 13:11:28 <petern> Probably easier to wait and see if the offset handling can work 😄 13:12:34 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #10233: Fix #10208: don't draw underlay for road tunnels, but allow a specific one https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10233#pullrequestreview-1215439698 13:12:58 <andythenorth> 8/8 has special handling in the compile 13:13:11 <andythenorth> cargo subtype variants 13:13:15 <andythenorth> but what even is? 13:13:21 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PikkaBird commented on pull request #10233: Fix #10208: don't draw underlay for road tunnels, but allow a specific one https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10233#pullrequestreview-1215440904 13:13:27 <andythenorth> variant painter 😛 13:13:32 <andythenorth> paint a train into another train 13:14:28 <petern> I mean you could. 13:14:41 <dP> photoshop grf action :p 13:24:58 <petern> Probably involves a state machine. 13:25:16 <petern> Sucks that HTML input patterns cannot be case-insensitive. 13:48:48 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #10233: Fix #10208: don't draw underlay for road tunnels, but allow a specific one https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10233#pullrequestreview-1215502056 13:53:53 <petern> Pruple: Didn't you need level crossing enhancements? Might be worth an issue. 13:54:23 <Pruple> "need" is strong 13:54:37 <Pruple> if I request a feature, I might have to draw things 13:54:41 <petern> 😄 14:00:07 *** frosch has quit IRC 14:01:20 <Pruple> https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/VariationalAction2/Roadtypes 14:01:20 <Pruple> In short: it would be nice to be able to have different crossing graphics for different road types. The obvious place to start is var 42, but that's currently useless because it doesn't differentiate between an open crossing and a non-crossing. Also, especially with the new close-adjacent-crossings feature, it would be nice to be able to detect if the neighbouring tiles are also crossings. 14:01:20 <Pruple> But I'm not sure how to make that a bug report. 🙂 14:04:56 *** tokai has joined #openttd 14:04:56 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 14:05:36 <Pruple> I suppose the fix is not to modify how var 42 works, but to allow roadtypes to provide an action 3 07 Level crossing sprites 🙂 14:06:37 <petern> Could be either. 14:06:56 <Pruple> with a road overlay rather than a rail overlay. then we're back to the old "who wins if rail, road and tram all want to provide crossing sprites?" 14:07:02 <petern> Nothing magic about var42. 14:07:47 <petern> Splitting the flags for islevelcrossing and iscrossingbarred seems obvious 14:08:23 <petern> I'm not sure how the new multiple crossings work, but it be easy to include flags for that too. 14:10:40 <petern> I wonder if we can have "build callbacks" 14:11:15 <petern> Game executes a callback after construction, and that can... set a flag on the tile. 14:11:44 <petern> Then you can have complex decisions set once on creation instead of every time the tile is drawn. 14:11:53 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 14:12:08 <petern> Not sure what decisions need to be made right now 14:21:54 <andythenorth> industries have a post-construction callback... 14:27:05 <petern> But 2x/4x iron-horse? 14:28:48 <petern> When everything is chunky 1x sprites are tiny. 14:29:06 <petern> Maybe we need 8x extra zoom. 14:29:35 <Pruple> maybe we need 8k maps 14:29:43 <petern> 64k 14:29:57 <petern> But only the original number of towns/industries 14:30:11 <Pruple> 🤔 14:31:53 <petern> Each tile is actually 1 metre, so the map is 64 km. A standard carriage is about 20 tiles long., and 3 tiles wide. 14:32:11 <petern> Scale sounds like Minecraft... 14:42:03 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 15:17:19 <Pruple> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=49341&start=20 uhoh 15:17:50 <petern> Hmm? 15:17:57 <Pruple> last post 🙂 15:18:34 <petern> 🙂 15:19:40 <petern> Someone should upload a version using *that* GRF ID range, and attribute it to *that* author... 15:20:04 <petern> Ah no, that's a stupid idea 🙂 15:26:44 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd 15:27:13 *** Flygon has quit IRC 15:58:25 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 15:58:59 <pickpacket> I'll be updating my NewGRF when I get around to it. Do I upload a newer version and let the old one be in the repo? 16:25:44 *** Flygon__ has joined #openttd 16:33:13 *** Flygon_ has quit IRC 16:34:59 <TallTyler> Repo meaning a GitHub repo? The whole idea of version control is that the old version is still available, so you just update it 16:35:25 <petern> Bananas I think. 16:36:09 <TallTyler> I think my wide rivers fix is ready to PR, but I don’t have internet in my new apartment yet so I need to walk to the library to use the WiFi. I went earlier but they weren’t open yet. This is truly the most inefficient workflow. 16:36:28 <TallTyler> At least I got a funicular ride out of it though 16:37:18 <petern> No mobile data? 16:41:52 <glx[d]> Maybe expensive mobile data on the other side of the ocean 16:44:52 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] clienthax opened pull request #10234: Update emscripten build instructions / Dockerfile https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10234 16:45:02 <LordAro> that's not TallTyler 16:47:17 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #10234: Update emscripten build instructions / Dockerfile https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10234#issuecomment-1349037957 16:49:36 *** supermop_toil has joined #openttd 16:54:37 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #10234: Update emscripten build instructions / Dockerfile https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10234#issuecomment-1349056547 17:07:01 <TallTyler> My desktop doesn’t have a WiFi card 🥲 17:07:28 <TallTyler> And nowhere near me sells computer parts, even Amazon wouldn’t get here before real internet does on Friday 17:08:54 <TallTyler> LordAro: Who isn’t me? Existential crisis time? 😛 17:09:44 <petern> I'm used to Amazon being next day. 17:12:34 <dP> TallTyler: you can share internet from the phone via usb tethering 17:19:51 <TallTyler> Hmm, I never installed drivers for my phone so it doesn’t work 😦 17:22:21 <TallTyler> Off to the library again! 17:31:48 <dP> I don't think it needs any specific drivers even on windows 17:36:55 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] clienthax commented on pull request #10234: Update emscripten build instructions / Dockerfile https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10234#issuecomment-1349222251 17:40:42 <petern> llvm bugs? Nice. 17:45:34 *** Flygon__ has quit IRC 18:02:03 <dP> after 7+ years of running servers I finally implemented the `!ban` command xD 18:05:55 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 18:08:34 <petern> Hmm, I wonder where to make my CI publish... :/ 18:38:44 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] CyberHippy1991 commented on issue #10232: [Crash]: Black screen on startup and crash https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/10232 18:43:31 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/commit/7e7e1183cf8d2819639cc794b950232dc6f58c5b 18:43:32 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators) 18:50:30 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler opened pull request #10235: Fix 10218: Sloped river tiles need water both up and downstream https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10235 18:50:57 <LordAro> missing # :p 18:57:01 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on issue #10232: [Crash]: Black screen on startup and crash https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/10232 18:57:18 <petern> TallTyler: Have you gone to the library to publish a PR?! 18:59:50 <TallTyler> Yes 19:00:10 <TallTyler> I am literally editing a text file on my ancient MacBook 19:00:17 <TallTyler> Which doesn’t have an IDE 19:00:34 <TallTyler> I can’t even rebase that commit to add the # 19:00:47 <TallTyler> Because it wants me to do it in Terminal 19:00:53 <TallTyler> And I can’t figure out the commands 19:00:54 <petern> That is dedication. 19:01:08 <TallTyler> We need to ship soon, and I created this bug 19:01:39 <TallTyler> I can’t rebase, so someone else can do it for me, I can do it Friday when I get internet, or we can squash while merging 19:01:46 <TallTyler> Someone else’s call 🙂 19:02:10 <TallTyler> Time for me to go home 19:45:24 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #10234: Update emscripten build instructions / Dockerfile https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10234#pullrequestreview-1216318963 19:50:00 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #10234: Update emscripten build instructions / Dockerfile https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10234#issuecomment-1349602553 19:51:59 <pickpacket> TallTyler, petern: yeah, Bananas 19:52:07 <pickpacket> Sorry for slow answer 19:52:15 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] clienthax commented on pull request #10234: Update emscripten build instructions / Dockerfile https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10234#pullrequestreview-1216327208 19:54:50 <pickpacket> I'm thinking about upping the production on my tea tree farms. I have one game running where I've been able to boost one farm up to 1000+ production, though it took forty years and no other farm is even close. Another game I have has been running for almost 30 years and I've still been unable to boost even a single farm up to even 200. All the 19:54:50 <pickpacket> farms have excellent station ratings, but the highest producing is sort of just oscillating between 120-something and 172. 19:55:14 <pickpacket> It feels like it must be an incredible statistical anomaly that *no* farm is doing well 19:55:44 <pickpacket> one issue though is that only one or two farms were even producing above 100 at the start of the game 19:57:08 <pickpacket> meanwhile if I get a perfect station rating at an oil platform the production yeets into the stratosphere 20:09:57 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] clienthax commented on pull request #10234: Update emscripten build instructions / Dockerfile https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10234#issuecomment-1349623372 20:27:29 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc updated pull request #10235: Fix #10218: Sloped river tiles need water both up and downstream https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10235 20:27:33 <michi_cc[d]> See, commit message now proper 🙂 20:39:47 <TallTyler> Thank you 🙏 21:05:22 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 21:17:34 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #10235: Fix #10218: Sloped river tiles need water both up and downstream https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10235#pullrequestreview-1216434800 21:37:18 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] clienthax updated pull request #10234: Update emscripten build instructions / Dockerfile https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10234 21:39:04 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] clienthax commented on pull request #10234: Update emscripten build instructions / Dockerfile https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10234#issuecomment-1349776082 21:40:34 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] clienthax updated pull request #10234: Update emscripten build instructions + version https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10234 21:41:46 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] clienthax updated pull request #10234: Update emscripten build instructions + version https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10234 21:42:42 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] clienthax updated pull request #10234: Update emscripten build instructions + version https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10234 21:59:47 *** nielsm has quit IRC 22:09:56 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 22:10:24 *** keikoz has quit IRC 22:11:37 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #10234: Update emscripten build instructions + version https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10234#issuecomment-1349866161 22:12:04 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 22:14:28 <