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00:04:52 *** discord_user_f4a0790 has joined #openttd 00:04:52 <discord_user_f4a0790> Oh shit 00:05:19 <discord_user_f4a0790> DVT functionality was the only thing that was gonna be lost in my updated SBB set 00:05:25 <TallTyler> Figured out how to reproduce it! Currently vehicles going backwards don't enter depots (which is obviously a different problem which needs solving) - they just bounce off the end of the track inside the depot. 00:05:25 <TallTyler> However, if a vehicle is leaving the depot initially and is reversed while some of it is still in the depot for any reason, it crashes as soon as one of its non-last-car vehicles reaches the end of track inside the depot and needs to be hidden. 00:05:25 <TallTyler> I'll work on fixing this tomorrow. 🙂 00:07:43 <discord_user_f4a0790> discord_user_f4a0790: It’s something that would be really cool in the scandi set because of the widespread use of DVTs there, the IC5 is a whole consist that is basically a DVT train 00:08:09 <discord_user_f4a0790> dP: 👀 00:08:45 <discord_user_f4a0790> Brickblock1: you too 00:09:51 <Brickblock1> are they really that wide spread? I only know of one 00:11:30 <discord_user_f4a0790> Brickblock1: There’s the IC5, the trailer for the double decker carriages and some version of the B carriage at last 00:12:35 <Brickblock1> oh right the ab exists 00:14:25 <dP> discord_user_f4a0790: yeah, I'm keeping an eye on that 00:14:39 <dP> having a proper support in the game is way better than those newgrf hacks 00:14:49 <dP> only problem would be to un-hack sbb sprites xD 00:16:06 <Brickblock1> I wonder how this pr interacts with jp+mus 00:16:28 <NotLuke> More jp when 00:16:35 <Brickblock1> given the insane way that it is implemented in that grf 00:17:12 <dP> it will probably need some flag for newgrf that it's ok to drive backwards 00:17:27 <dP> and leave one with own hacks be 00:17:40 <Brickblock1> what would probably work fine 00:18:26 <petern> Just don't tell the NewGRF it's reversing, then any special tricks don't get activated. 00:19:18 <dP> yeah, I guess there can be some other flag for driving backwards 00:19:24 <Brickblock1> that could also work 00:19:49 <Brickblock1> but seams weird to have a useless var 00:20:05 <dP> it's not useless, it's deprecated :P 00:20:35 <petern> There's loads of vars available that have no use 😄 00:21:48 <petern> And loads of vars wasted on compatibility with TTDP for vars would never have been used... 00:22:08 <discord_user_f4a0790> https://www.jernbanen.dk/dsb_pvogn.php?Aar=1966&litra=Bns&typenr=1 Brickblock1 00:23:32 <Brickblock1> Why are they all sold to iran 00:24:18 <discord_user_f4a0790> Idk 00:24:27 <discord_user_f4a0790> Dsb sold plenty of stuff to Iran i think 00:24:36 <discord_user_f4a0790> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1059990697727508530/IMG_6092.png 00:25:25 <discord_user_f4a0790> https://www.jernbanen.dk/lyntog.php?typenr=4 00:25:33 <discord_user_f4a0790> This is the IC5 00:25:40 <discord_user_f4a0790> Basically one huge DVT 00:25:49 <discord_user_f4a0790> Also sold to iran 00:27:20 <discord_user_f4a0790> The IC5, 3rd gen s tog, MR, ME and EA were all part of the same project i think 00:27:30 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 00:28:05 <Brickblock1> We probably shouldn't steal this channel:) 00:29:27 <discord_user_f4a0790> I’ll send pics in Discord channel #add-on-development 00:50:15 *** wallabra_ has joined #openttd 00:51:46 *** wallabra has quit IRC 00:51:47 *** wallabra_ is now known as wallabra 01:33:58 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] wholepuncher updated pull request #9852: Fix #9810: 'Rebuilding' a through road stop costs money. https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/9852 02:09:41 *** supermop_Home has joined #openttd 02:10:04 <supermop_Home> whats best place to keep 500gb of stuff online these days? 02:11:41 *** wallabra has quit IRC 02:18:16 <debdog> home server? 02:40:51 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #10299: Enable CodeQL code scanning https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10299#pullrequestreview-1235297974 02:50:32 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 03:29:03 *** D-HUND has joined #openttd 03:32:23 *** debdog has quit IRC 03:35:32 *** D-HUND is now known as debdog 03:39:34 *** wallabra has joined #openttd 03:49:52 <supermop_Home> debdog i don't have a home 03:52:02 <debdog> hehe, yah, who has 03:52:57 <supermop_Home> like literally, I've just been moving from temporary place to place for 8 months after a fire in my apartment building 03:53:29 <debdog> oy vey 03:53:45 <supermop_Home> so i'm not really keen on a physical device that i have to move, and which may also get destroyed in a fire/etc 03:54:56 <debdog> ok, that adds one more variable to your question, fail-safe 03:55:38 <supermop_Home> google drive seems awkward and to get TB ish size its not that cheap 03:56:13 <supermop_Home> not super expensive, but enough money that i'd want to shop around for other options 03:56:51 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 03:58:39 <debdog> is it just to park data or is there a lot of traffic expected? 03:58:53 <supermop_Home> i have a few old 500gb-2TB external hardrives i back stuff up on but those could also be lost 03:59:42 <supermop_Home> the biggest chunk is photos, mostly film scans which i don't need super regular accesss to, other than a curated selection 04:00:27 <supermop_Home> smaller chunk but more important is architecture portfolio files, which i only access every 1-2 years 04:01:30 <supermop_Home> this past year i started shooting about 1 roll of film a week, so amount of space is going up pretty quickly 04:02:48 <debdog> you actually work with films? 04:03:03 <supermop_Home> not work - i don't make money from it 04:03:28 <debdog> well... 'use' 04:03:43 <supermop_Home> or rather i might make 0 over the course of 2-5 years selling an occasional print 04:05:09 <supermop_Home> nyt wirecutter review said use backblaze 04:05:50 <supermop_Home> but i don't consider the times to be particularly tech savy, just a good yardstick of 'this is probably not a scam' 04:07:56 <supermop_Home> if i lived in a spacious suburban home i'd ideally have a NAS full of drives, and then some copy cold on drives in storage somewhere else 04:08:11 <supermop_Home> but, no space, no home, and afraid of fires.... 04:08:34 <debdog> what started the fire? 04:09:05 *** wallabra_ has joined #openttd 04:10:57 <supermop_Home> most likely was extension cord overheating 04:11:14 <supermop_Home> it was in the apartment opposite ours, across the hall 04:11:51 *** wallabra has quit IRC 04:11:51 *** wallabra_ is now known as wallabra 04:12:12 <debdog> I am an electrician and used to be a firefighter. I do not know how to respond right now 04:12:24 <debdog> sorry 04:12:54 <supermop_Home> spread to the 3 apartments on that side of the building on our floor, one of the apartments on the floor below, and the 3 above 04:13:39 <supermop_Home> as well as the corridor and stairs on our floor, and floor above, the roof, and to a lesser extent the 3 apartments above ours 04:14:05 <supermop_Home> (6 units per floor - 3 in front, 3 in back, 6 floor walk-up) 04:14:18 <supermop_Home> we were on 5th floor 04:14:43 *** TROILUS8 has joined #openttd 04:14:59 <supermop_Home> our apartment had minimal damage apart from some wiring in wall between us and the fire 04:15:18 <supermop_Home> but everything in our apartment was covered in soot 04:15:49 <supermop_Home> very lucky that i reflexifly closed our door on the way out 04:15:55 <supermop_Home> reflexily 04:16:06 <supermop_Home> reflexively 04:16:36 <supermop_Home> https://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/news/2022/04/16/fatal-chinatown-fire-deemed-accidental--fdny 04:17:04 <debdog> I'd go searchengine-ing for a local provider for file hosting. 04:18:07 *** keikoz has joined #openttd 04:18:20 <debdog> even with fatalities. that is bad 04:19:05 <supermop_Home> https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/chinatown-apartment-fire/ 04:20:08 *** TROILUS has quit IRC 04:20:08 *** TROILUS8 is now known as TROILUS 04:20:23 <supermop_Home> yeah, their home health aide was not able to get the elderly mother out, and the son with down refused to leave his mom 04:21:00 <debdog> this may sound strange. but maybe they were lucky 04:21:24 <supermop_Home> the aide woke us up by banging on our door for help but in that time the fire spread to the corridor and we couldn't get in to get them and had to run out of the building 04:21:46 <supermop_Home> and by the time fdny got to them it was too late 04:22:18 *** wallabra has quit IRC 04:23:38 <debdog> I am not able to comprehend what you've been trough 04:23:49 <supermop_Home> their apartment was an unrenovated one (last rnovated around 1910s) with only a single 15A circuit 04:25:01 <supermop_Home> a few families in old building in Chinatown have occupied apartments for decades like that, and those apartments are mostly original to the 1910s-20s 04:25:32 <supermop_Home> (buildings are from the 1880s-90s, but don't think anything has 1880s wiring anymore 04:25:47 <debdog> I am not entirely certain about the wireing rules in the US. but a fuse does not protect extention cords. it only protects the wire up to the outlet. the problem is selling cheap cords. 04:26:18 <supermop_Home> well cords are not usually rated for long term use 04:27:06 <supermop_Home> in this case it seemed the apartment was very cluttered and the cord was covered/behind stuff, and used continuously for a heater or something 04:28:07 <supermop_Home> the old apartments have very few outlets so that is somewhat common, even though here in kindergarten we are taught to never cover extension cords, etc 04:28:20 <supermop_Home> most people generally ignore those rules 04:28:49 <supermop_Home> the cord may well have been old/frayed as well 04:29:13 <debdog> I like the masonry of that building, the ledges(?) 04:29:27 <supermop_Home> i didn't probe for more information about the exact fault for various reasons 04:30:04 <supermop_Home> yes i love the building, i had been in there since 2012, and its unique even among 1880s tenements in the area 04:30:27 <supermop_Home> it a has a few features that most similar buildings of the era did not 04:30:47 <supermop_Home> some of my neighbors lived their whole lives there 04:34:03 <supermop_Home> hmm was going to draw more station sprites tonight but squandered all my time going through old photos 04:34:46 <debdog> I gave up watching TV when on our news, I am in southern germany, appeared a report of a balcon breaking down somewhere in the US 04:35:54 <debdog> and I thought, that does concern me as much as a bag of rice tips over in china 04:36:20 <debdog> because it was on the other side of the pond. far away 04:37:17 <debdog> but hearing a tragic story like that from a fellow human, even that far apart, makes me sad 04:37:34 <supermop_Home> well it was back in april 04:37:56 <debdog> and I think more people were hurt and killed by that balkony 04:38:02 <supermop_Home> long time ago, and people die for sad and senseless reasons everyday 04:38:51 <debdog> sometimes there is no such thing as long time ago, is there? 04:38:57 <supermop_Home> in a city like new York, 20M people, everyday will be someone's personal tragedy 04:39:36 <debdog> ... 04:40:12 <supermop_Home> but this fire was a bit of an outlier, usually even here there are only a few that bad in any year, and some years one or zero 04:40:37 <debdog> that actually is a miracle 04:40:47 <reldred> Supermop, I've used Backblaze B2 before. They're a rather large S3 compatible block storage provider. But, if it's only 500GB, you could try renting a virtual private server (VPS) and pushing everything up there with a file sync tool? I've used resiliosync in the past. Some NAS's can also sync to a S3 storage provider but I don't know much about that. 04:42:06 <supermop_Home> reldred easier the better 04:42:55 <supermop_Home> but its 500 gb now, if i don't stop taking pictures that could grow up to 100+ per year 04:43:17 <supermop_Home> (i'm refraining from getting my negatives scanned as tiffs) 04:43:30 <reldred> Yeah, I know that feeling. My archive of photos is about 900gb, fortunately/unfortunately it’s not really gone anywhere 04:44:28 <supermop_Home> i actually keep a 256 sd card in my ZFC but for better or for worse i never fill that up on a trip 04:44:58 <supermop_Home> usually shoot 2-4gb on a vacation plus 2 rolls of film 04:45:01 <reldred> I stopped getting my slides professionally scanned, I swapped to using an Olympus OM5 on a light box with a macro lens and the 40mp multi stitch mode. Glorious results, kicked the shit out of the giant Hasselblad drum scanner the pro lab used. 04:45:45 <reldred> EM5 sorry, 04:46:07 <supermop_Home> also 35mm was hard to get for supply chain reasons at times this year, so i shot more medium format, 04:46:33 <reldred> EM5 mk2? Been a while since I’ve shot film I must admit. As soon as Fuji killed off Provia 400 I lost my enthusiasm, as it made hand holding the Xpan viable. 04:46:51 <reldred> Didn’t even really pick digital back up again after that either. 04:47:10 <supermop_Home> i have 2 boxes of fuji pro 400h in 120 here 04:47:14 <reldred> Might get my enthusiasm back if I start travelling more again. 04:47:31 <reldred> Yeah I've still got a couple boxes of it in the fridge 04:47:39 <supermop_Home> but i prefer ektar 100 all around 04:47:44 <reldred> Yeah? 04:47:55 <reldred> I never bothered with Ektar 04:48:20 <supermop_Home> and gold 200 04:48:24 <reldred> I've been tossing around the idea of getting a 617 and shooting big fuckoff panoramas again but eh 04:48:35 <reldred> I miss my xpan 😦 04:48:43 <supermop_Home> maybe just gravitating to warmer colors and stick to kodak 04:49:01 <supermop_Home> i do love velvia when i can find it though 04:49:07 <reldred> I thought ektar was cooler rather than warmer? 04:49:21 <reldred> Yeah, velvia was gorgeous 04:49:28 <supermop_Home> its cooler than gold, but warmer than superia 04:49:43 <reldred> yeah I pretty much only shot slide 04:49:46 <supermop_Home> warmer than provia noticeably 04:49:56 <reldred> never really shot a lot of neg 04:50:26 <supermop_Home> if you can find it Gold 100 is nice too 04:50:40 <supermop_Home> only freezer stock now 04:51:09 <supermop_Home> i aactually got a lot of frozen aps film recently 04:51:22 <supermop_Home> not sure what i'll do with that 04:55:30 <supermop_Home> idk i'd also just pay Microsoft or google if that was a sensible option for storage? 04:55:59 <supermop_Home> andy would say he just uses some apple thing and it works fine or whatever 04:59:09 <supermop_Home> reldred: if you say backblaze worked well i'm down to just use that 05:06:56 <reldred> Yeah, but I was doing some other weird stuff. 05:07:17 <reldred> I can only really say that Backblaze aren't some fly-by-night shady operator 05:13:58 <supermop_Home> i guess Microsoft will probably be around for a while too, but OneDrive isn't really what i'm looking for 05:25:46 <reldred> No it's a bit of a pain 06:15:07 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 06:15:28 *** supermop_Home has quit IRC 06:26:15 *** cebopp1[m] has joined #openttd 06:41:16 <kamnet> I've been quite happy with Google Drive for storage 06:41:25 <kamnet> but probably not what you need 06:42:51 <pickpacket> I have a feature request. Do I add that as an issue or start a discussion or..? 06:46:37 <Pruple> what is it? 06:47:01 <Pruple> discussing it here is always a good start 🙂 06:48:07 <pickpacket> I also have a question about production multipliers. Coal mines have 15, iron ore mines have 10. I set my tea tree farms to 12, yet when I start a new game there's usually more than a dozen iron ore mines with a production way above 100 but at best one or two tea tree farms 06:49:14 <pickpacket> The feature request: I'd like lists to be numbered. To be able to see how many elements are in them. Lists of towns, industries, vehicles 06:53:19 <pickpacket> errrh... nvm about the production rates. I was using the wrong version of my NewGRF 06:59:30 <Pruple> vehicle lists already have numbers... and you can see how many of each industry exists on the map. I think people have mentioned wanting somewhere that shows the total number of towns before 07:06:17 <pickpacket> vehicles have numbers, but the list doesn't 07:06:47 <pickpacket> if you change the sorting you'll see that the numbers are jumbled 07:09:13 <pickpacket> how do I see how many of each industry there is? 07:10:05 <Pruple> in the minimap, click the industries button, it shows the count after each industry in the legend 07:10:51 <Pruple> vehicle lists have the total number in the title bar, individual groups have counts in the list 07:11:09 <pickpacket> oh! Cool! 07:22:49 <petern> Such awake 07:35:46 <andythenorth> same 07:40:45 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 07:58:28 <Pruple> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1060104919484485642/Sunbrook_Transport_1925-01-30.png 07:58:28 <Pruple> stop that at once 07:59:01 <andythenorth> nice suffix 08:01:24 <Pruple> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1060105655169581136/Sunbrook_Transport_1925-02-17.png 08:01:24 <Pruple> I do like this... bad features taken into consideration 🙂 08:02:19 <andythenorth> give it 10 hp 08:02:20 <andythenorth> will be fine 08:03:04 <Pruple> no, 0 is fine 08:03:29 <Pruple> give it 10 and *someone* will try to haul trains with 20 brakevans 08:09:20 <petern> "huh, what's this strange line below this table?" 08:09:31 <petern> "oh, literally an <hr>" 08:10:22 <andythenorth> Pruple: can't imagine who 08:10:33 <petern> Pruple: Give it power until it turns around. 08:10:44 <andythenorth> <hr> is the best tag 08:12:09 <andythenorth> can I add powered brake vans in my Horse Variants branch? 08:12:12 <petern> <div class="y-3"><div class="hr"> </div></div> 08:12:16 <andythenorth> or do I need a new branch? 08:12:29 <andythenorth> petern: did you do that? 😮 08:12:29 <petern> Have you merged your branch into main yet? 08:12:34 <petern> No 🙂 08:12:49 <andythenorth> reminds me of old arguments 08:12:52 <petern> Just my general mocking of the verboseness of modern css "frameworks". 08:13:06 *** Tirili has joined #openttd 08:13:17 <andythenorth> well stuff like that used to be argued as 'best practice' 08:13:20 <petern> <label class="form-label"><input class="form-input"> 08:13:44 <andythenorth> there was a real thing around 2006 ish about dropping html tags and using classes 08:13:46 <petern> Guys, it's an input, in a form. Maybe just style it by default? ffs... 08:14:02 <andythenorth> then you can't style it differently somewhere else 08:14:05 <andythenorth> without algebra 08:14:08 <andythenorth> shrug 08:14:17 <andythenorth> inline styles are fine, nothing actually goes wrong 08:14:35 <petern> I had a whole phase of removing all inline js and css as it was "insecure" 08:14:48 <petern> Stupid PCI-DSS OWASP extremes. 08:14:59 <andythenorth> yeah replace it with libraries you load from 3rd party CDNs instead 🙂 08:15:08 <petern> There's an attribute you can set that will prevent the browser from loading inline stuff. 08:15:48 <andythenorth> also no I didn't merge my branch to main yet 08:17:18 <andythenorth> shall I do a PR? 08:17:42 <andythenorth> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1060109757790289951/image.png 08:22:17 <petern> 145 😄 08:23:09 <andythenorth> I could squash some 08:23:41 <andythenorth> are we backing out variants due to the massive community hostility in tt-f and reddit? 08:24:00 <andythenorth> there have been as many as 0 posts angry about it so far 08:24:01 <andythenorth> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=90498 08:24:26 <petern> I assume that's like a stream-of-consciousness list of commits rather than a plan-of-action... 08:24:47 <andythenorth> "one does not plan this sort of thing" 08:25:16 <andythenorth> I have done programming as a job, and have retired gracefully 08:25:23 <andythenorth> too much discipline 08:27:46 <dP> andythenorth: revert as useless 😛 08:27:54 <andythenorth> fair point 08:27:57 <andythenorth> tree, forest, falls 08:28:02 <andythenorth> sound? 08:28:23 *** Tirili has quit IRC 08:28:23 <andythenorth> it's ok, when Pruple ships UKRS 99 there will be at least 1 post 08:29:26 <andythenorth> hmm I need a wagon tech tree now 08:29:34 <andythenorth> I have an engine tree 08:29:49 *** Tirili has joined #openttd 08:34:36 *** Tirili has quit IRC 08:35:00 *** Tirili has joined #openttd 08:36:46 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 08:42:15 <petern> So the issue of mixing audio equipment and computer equipment is mainly... so. many. cables. 09:45:03 <pickpacket> Pruple: what's a brake van good for? 09:45:59 <Pruple> absolutely nothing 09:46:06 <pickpacket> :P 09:46:37 <FLHerne> They're not required like UKRS2? 09:46:47 <FLHerne> I liked that feature :p 09:47:18 <Pruple> you can personally require them if you like 🙂 09:47:36 <FLHerne> true 09:47:49 <Pruple> on longer olde steame trains I often use two, one on either end of the wagons 09:55:15 <petern> > The job of this wagon was to provide extra braking force for a train and as an emergency hand brake, should an unfitted train become uncoupled from the locomotive and become a runaway train. 09:55:39 <petern> New disaster, runaway trains... 09:56:14 <EmperorJake> In JP+ engines the brake van provides a speed boost 10:00:07 <petern> Hmm, fuck about with templates or just smash it with innerHTML/outerHTML... "it's slow" they say, benchmarking that templates can do 200,000 ops/s and innerHTML can only do 120,000 ops/s 10:08:41 <Eddi|zuHause> and how many million pages are you serving per second? 10:10:34 <petern> It's client-side so however many its still irrelevant 😄 10:13:10 <Rubidium> well... if each pixel is one innerHTML ;D 10:42:10 <petern> That's how it feels when drawing each pixel of this RGB colour chooser 🙂 10:43:31 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 11:19:47 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 11:55:57 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ya-isakov commented on issue #8029: Black screen on SDL2-enabled OpenTTD, Sway and SDL_VIDEODRIVER=wayland https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/8029 12:01:12 *** Tirili has quit IRC 12:01:28 *** Tirili has joined #openttd 12:03:16 *** Tirili has quit IRC 12:04:13 *** Tirili has joined #openttd 12:05:38 <pickpacket> So, everyone, what’s your favourite map generation settings? 12:08:48 *** Tirili has quit IRC 12:09:07 *** Tirili has joined #openttd 12:11:10 *** Tirili has quit IRC 12:11:34 *** Tirili has joined #openttd 12:34:13 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 12:47:42 <mlt> All water, no industries no cities 12:47:52 <mlt> Takes a lot of work of your hands 13:22:08 <pickpacket> mlt: you're not wrong... but what settings would you enter for the map generator to achieve this? 13:23:19 <petern> I like water at around 60-70%. It gives a reason to use boats, not that Sam has passenger boats... 13:23:49 <pickpacket> Sam? 13:24:27 <pickpacket> and what settings do you apply to make the map look that way? :D 13:26:39 <petern> Sam is a meme at this point. 13:37:02 <pickpacket> okay? 13:41:20 <petern> andythenorth's ship set. 13:41:42 <petern> For maps? I dunno, I hardly play this game D: 13:56:19 <FLHerne> https://grf.farm/unsinkable-sam/ 14:05:54 <petern> We're going to get ship variants aren't we? 14:06:39 <petern> What is that URL meant to be? 14:16:37 <kamnet> petern: All water, though, you don't need passenger boats. They all drowned. 14:20:08 <FLHerne> URL that actually works https://grf.farm/unsinkable-sam/preview-28/html/ships.html 14:20:40 <FLHerne> andythenorth: on the wobsite, is there a good way to reach the docs for the latest version? 14:20:58 <FLHerne> I just incremented the number until it stopped existing yet 14:21:59 <Rubidium> kamnet: passengers between oil rigs 14:23:37 <Heresy> I usually just go directly to grf.farm and then click from there to find docs for version I need 😄 15:05:30 <supermop_toil> good morning 15:07:36 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 15:10:48 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 15:11:35 <supermop_toil> andythenorth: where should i store photos and psds online? 15:14:46 <TallTyler> Not Andy and I missed the discussion last night, but I also use Backblaze for backups - obviously it’s not suitable for storage you need to access regularly, just when you have a data loss and need to restore 15:15:52 <TallTyler> I have something like 2.5TB backed up there. When raw photos are 25 MB each, it adds up quick 🙂 15:16:31 <TrueBrain> if something breaks, just let them send a HDD 🙂 15:17:15 <TallTyler> I think that’s one of the options 15:17:27 <TrueBrain> that's ... why I mention it, yes 😛 15:17:28 <TrueBrain> hihi 15:17:29 <supermop_toil> TallTyler: sounds good - yeah i wouldn't use it for working files 15:18:08 <TrueBrain> Backblaze also has an S3 alternative, if you need something with more regular access btw 😉 15:18:19 <supermop_toil> just the stuff that currently sits on various external hdds 15:19:04 <TrueBrain> 1 thing about Backblaze and external HDDs: if you disconnect it, after N days it wants to see the HDD again, otherwise they are removed from the backup. N depends on how much you pay 🙂 15:19:26 <supermop_toil> hmm 15:19:28 <TrueBrain> (I unplug my external HDDs when I am done with them; so I get a reminder every 14 days to plug them in again for a day, so Backblaze has seen them again .. not a biggy, just something to be mindful of) 15:19:30 *** murr4y has quit IRC 15:20:05 <supermop_toil> i kinda want something where "i pay you $X and you let me put 1-2TB of files on your server" 15:20:14 <TrueBrain> well, it sends me 3 reminders every 14 days per HDD, for some stupid reason, but that is not the point 😛 15:20:46 <TallTyler> Yeah I lost my main hard drive backup when I moved out of state for three months and then stayed there over a year…had to have someone make a copy and then ship me the drive so I could plug it in and re-back it up 😬 15:20:54 <supermop_toil> "back up the 500gb ssd of my computer as it is currently" is also nice but different? 15:20:56 *** Samu has joined #openttd 15:21:18 <TallTyler> Backblaze stores my whole computer in addition to my external drive 15:22:08 <TallTyler> I think it automatically excludes some folders (program files, etc) that don’t need to be backed up, and you can set manual exceptions too 15:22:22 *** murr4y has joined #openttd 15:22:46 <supermop_toil> the back up my computer part is a service i'd use, but i also want a separate service of basically cold storage of 500gb-2TB of older raw and tiff photos, old architecture project portfolio materials etc 15:23:08 <TrueBrain> get any S3-like service, Backblaze has one, Cloudflare, AWS, Azure, ... 🙂 15:23:12 <supermop_toil> that i only need to get at yearly if ever, like when updating a portfolio to apply to a new job 15:23:33 <Samu> I'm on a 3rd keyboard 15:23:46 <Samu> this one is brand new 15:24:14 <supermop_toil> basically what i use the external hard drives for now - 500gb of old stuff that doesn't need to be connected to my computer all the time 15:31:18 <supermop_toil> maybe i should set up a rig to shoot slides of all my digital phots and then stick them all in a box buried in the desert 15:54:44 <Samu> Am I allowed to quote code from RailwAI on a reply for #10227? 15:55:10 <Samu> an AI on bananas 16:15:40 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #10227: Fix 3c047b1: AIGroup.GetProfitLastYear could get values different than those displayed in GUI https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10227#issuecomment-1371132045 16:15:53 *** TROILUS6 has joined #openttd 16:17:04 <Samu> I think I'll let RailwAI know about it 16:18:11 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 opened pull request #10316: Fix: do not allow more palette colours than there are indices for the colours https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10316 16:21:33 *** TROILUS has quit IRC 16:21:34 *** TROILUS6 is now known as TROILUS 16:27:20 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 opened pull request #10317: CodeQL triggered clean ups https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10317 16:27:26 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #10316: Fix: do not allow more palette colours than there are indices for the colours https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10316#pullrequestreview-1236153137 16:34:07 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #10316: Fix: do not allow more palette colours than there are indices for the colours https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10316#pullrequestreview-1236162939 16:34:16 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 opened pull request #10318: Codechange: refactor FindClosestDepot to not use pointers, but return struct https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10318 16:36:25 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 updated pull request #10316: Fix: do not allow more palette colours than there are indices for the colours https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10316 16:58:39 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 17:13:39 <petern> Oh yeah, that's more obvious, doh 17:15:04 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 updated pull request #10318: Codechange: refactor FindClosestDepot to not use pointers, but return struct https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10318 17:18:30 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 17:25:02 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN approved pull request #10316: Fix: do not allow more palette colours than there are indices for the colours https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10316#pullrequestreview-1236234440 17:25:51 <andythenorth> FLHerne: There's an index.html - the only weird thing about hosting static sites on S3 is that it's non-trivial to auto index https://grf.farm/unsinkable-sam/index.html 17:25:59 <andythenorth> unlike actual CMSes etc 17:26:33 <andythenorth> supermop_toil: I am in the Apple world, so I don't worry about it 17:26:47 <andythenorth> anything that's not on the Apple cloud is on something like github 17:27:11 <andythenorth> work stuff is on a work cloud service 17:27:47 <andythenorth> what happened to everyone just using Dropbox or Google Drive? 17:32:26 <supermop_toil> google drive is only like 1TB for 0 17:32:50 <supermop_toil> maybe 2TB 17:33:13 <supermop_toil> but enough that i thought i should shop around 17:34:37 <supermop_toil> backing up my computer day to day is fine, its more the other hundreds of gb of stuff 17:36:54 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 merged pull request #10316: Fix: do not allow more palette colours than there are indices for the colours https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10316 17:43:49 <Heresy> Office 365 Family gives you 6TB for 100 USD/Year (or regional pricing if other currency), though you need to cheat it a bit, as it gives you six Office 365 licenses, and there is 1TB per license, so you would have to create additional microsoft accounts then share the folder to your main account. 17:43:49 <Heresy> Have not done it myself yet, as I only use about 800Gb at the moment, but I also have Jottacloud which gives you unlimited for 10 USD/month, though they limit your upload speed if you go above 5TB, and depending on location they might not be the fastest, as they store their data in Norway (or other countries with equal or stronger privacy laws). 17:43:55 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 approved pull request #10315: Fix: Don't assume engclass 2 should be elrail. https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10315#pullrequestreview-1236260524 18:08:34 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 approved pull request #10290: Change: Big UFO disaster targets current location of a random train https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10290#pullrequestreview-1236289509 18:15:12 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #10290: Change: Big UFO disaster targets current location of a random train https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10290#issuecomment-1371262711 18:24:01 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #10290: Change: Big UFO disaster targets current location of a random train https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10290#issuecomment-1371271662 18:26:28 *** Flygon has quit IRC 18:30:40 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 commented on pull request #10290: Change: Big UFO disaster targets current location of a random train https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10290#issuecomment-1371278079 18:33:40 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #10290: Change: Big UFO disaster targets current location of a random train https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10290#issuecomment-1371280946 18:35:07 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on pull request #10290: Change: Big UFO disaster targets current location of a random train https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10290#issuecomment-1371282219 18:36:02 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro dismissed a review for pull request #10290: Change: Big UFO disaster targets current location of a random train https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10290#pullrequestreview-1236289509 18:36:05 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro updated pull request #10290: Change: Big UFO disaster targets current location of a random train https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10290 18:36:20 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #10290: Change: Big UFO disaster targets current location of a random train https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10290#issuecomment-1371283367 18:39:28 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 approved pull request #10290: Change: Big UFO disaster targets current location of a random train https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10290#pullrequestreview-1236324711 18:45:09 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/commit/b3907b135950a221f04f01de5ccb12428d7e6da4 18:45:10 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators) 18:55:26 *** Samu has quit IRC 19:44:06 *** Samu has joined #openttd 19:52:59 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 20:11:56 *** Tirili has quit IRC 20:20:57 <andythenorth> hmm what did I miss? 20:29:11 <TallTyler> I still haven't fixed my depot crash 😦 20:29:21 <TallTyler> Vehicle movement code is confusing 20:34:22 <LordAro> yup 20:35:30 <TallTyler> The problem is clearly that reversing trains don't enter depots properly - they just bounce off the end of track 20:35:38 <TallTyler> I just haven't figured out why 20:35:54 <TallTyler> Code is here if anyone wants to take a gander: https://github.com/2TallTyler/OpenTTD/tree/backwards 20:36:03 <Pruple> hmmm... should vehicles which only have one variant currently available still have an openable list? It feels a bit confusing - "here's a new vehicle with variants! ... except there's only one!" 20:38:29 <EmperorJake> Also I'd like to be able to select variants in "available vehicles" without having to buy one 20:38:45 <Pruple> EmperorJake: I said that yesterday 😛 20:40:15 <Pruple> peter pointed out you can do it in an actual purchase list by holding shift and double-clicking, which works. but... 20:41:27 <EmperorJake> That's too hidden even for OpenTTD 20:42:32 <TallTyler> Maybe I should check out the shunting patch to see how it handles things 20:42:49 <TallTyler> Not sure my Git skills are quite up to par to compare it with my patch, but I'll try 20:43:13 <JGR> I don't believe that the shunting patch includes reverse movement, but I could be wrong on that 20:43:32 <TallTyler> It does, if I recall correctly when I played with it 20:43:42 <Brickblock1> it does 20:43:42 <TallTyler> I remember having to turn trains on a wye (triangle) 20:45:36 <EmperorJake> So with this reversing patch, how would NewGRFs handle headlight switching? would it interfere with already existing reversing code? 20:45:48 <EmperorJake> It looks really promising though 20:45:54 <TallTyler> There would have to be a NewGRF variable for "vehicle is reversing" I think 20:45:58 <TallTyler> To swap sprites 20:46:07 <TallTyler> Old NewGRFs could back up but headlights might not work 20:47:15 <EmperorJake> But it would be separate from vehicle_is_reversed, which is already used for reversing 20:47:21 <EmperorJake> Sounds confusing 20:47:43 <TallTyler> vehicle_is_reversed is Ctrl+click reversing in depots, no? 20:47:52 <TallTyler> could be "vehicle_is_backing_up" 20:48:09 <supermop_toil> vehicle is travelling in reverse? 20:48:38 <TallTyler> I'm honestly not worrying about NewGRF stuff yet, need to fix depots first, then add player controls 20:48:40 <supermop_toil> automatically repaint lightest yellow shade to red 20:48:46 <EmperorJake> TallTyler: No, that's vehicle_is_flipped 20:48:52 <EmperorJake> It's already confusing lol 20:49:15 <frosch> vehicle_is_flipped is ctrl+click 20:49:34 <TallTyler> Oh, vehicle_is_reversed could stay and be set when the vehicle is reversed -- so just act normally 20:49:41 <frosch> vehicle_is_reversed is currently used for the newgrf hacks, it just toggles everytime the vehicle reverses 20:50:13 <TallTyler> Vehicles with fake sprite swapping would appear to magic flip when they are actually backing up 20:50:14 <frosch> you would need vehicle_is_driving_reversed or something, and vehicle_is_reversed must not be toggled probably 20:50:14 <EmperorJake> Speaking of flipping vehicles, I'm glad the need for the flip flag is removed, but I remember complaining loudly when it was introduced and I even wrote my first patch to edit out that line 🤷 20:52:36 <EmperorJake> Yeah it would be unfortunate if all the hard work that went into coding sets like JP+ and SBB had the opposite effect 20:53:01 <reldred> TallTyler: Clearly they need bigger depots 20:53:14 <reldred> 😛 20:53:21 <TallTyler> I haven't figured out compatibility but NewGRFs can always be changed 🙂 Nothing would be legitimately broken, they just couldn't use the new feature 20:54:00 <TallTyler> I am planning to have the reversing happen only when the vehicle has a Reverse order (probably its own line, from the same dropdown where conditional orders are found) 20:54:29 <TallTyler> Without that order, the train can magic flip, keeping old behavior (and avoiding any new settings!) 20:54:42 <reldred> Yeah I’d use the hell out of that 20:54:50 <TallTyler> So old NewGRFs could just keep current behavior and work fine 20:55:05 <reldred> Probably patch it for JGRPP to make it optionally mandatory 😛 20:55:15 <TallTyler> Nope, it goes to vanilla 20:55:24 <TallTyler> Oh I see what you mean 20:55:28 <reldred> Yeah but once it gets merged with JGRPP 😛 20:56:07 <reldred> Sorry am tired and sick, probably not making much sense 😔 20:56:23 <TallTyler> Nah, I understand now 20:57:19 <EmperorJake> reldred: Same 20:58:08 <Brickblock1> I think that it would be preferred if it only gets used if the first and last wagon in the consist supports it. 20:58:27 <TallTyler> No, the idea is you can shove freight trains at reduced speed 20:58:50 <TallTyler> If you don't want it to reverse, just don't give it the Reverse order and it'll magic flip just like now 20:59:04 <Brickblock1> but you have to limit speed for that to make sense 20:59:10 <EmperorJake> Brickblock1: That's what I thought at first too, as this is how transport fever 2 handles it 20:59:24 <EmperorJake> but this way is more versatile 20:59:33 <Brickblock1> that is true 20:59:34 <TallTyler> I plan to limit speed to whatever trains use when entering depots 20:59:49 <TallTyler> To avoid any discussion of NewGRFs setting their own reversing speed 🙂 21:00:09 <Brickblock1> TallTyler: but what if you use a push pull set? 21:00:17 <andythenorth> I wish to discuss 21:00:23 <Brickblock1> would make it way worse imo 21:00:26 <EmperorJake> Oh, but I wanted to have IH trains be able to push pull 21:00:35 <EmperorJake> what is even the point otherwise 21:00:46 <TallTyler> Oh right, sorry -- speed only limited if there's no engine on the back 21:01:03 <reldred> Yup, this solves my mental quandary of terminus stations, I despise magic flip, 21:01:07 <Brickblock1> but what if I don't want by dvt to have power? 21:01:09 <TallTyler> So push-pull goes full speed, freight trains being shoved go slow 21:01:21 <Brickblock1> TallTyler: makes sense 21:01:34 <TallTyler> We can discuss NewGRF flags once I wrap my head around movement code enough to stop crashing 21:01:39 <TallTyler> 🙂 21:01:39 <reldred> DVT’s are usually still coded as engines not wagons? 21:01:48 <EmperorJake> Brickblock1: A DVT needs power to be able to lead a train, so it's seen as a locomotive 21:01:52 <JGR> For freight, trying to move locomotives around with headshunts and the likely makes the scale problems even more obvious 21:02:14 <Brickblock1> not all grf are coded that way and there would be no need with this implementation 21:02:41 <Brickblock1> for example sbb set and rukts 21:02:59 <reldred> Then don’t use the the special order? 21:03:12 <EmperorJake> Those sets already have hacky flipping magic 21:03:23 <Brickblock1> if a new set was made with out the magic and power 21:04:57 <JGR> If the vehicle is already double-headed or with a DVT, it would make sense to drive "backwards" without needing a special order? 21:05:02 <EmperorJake> There are some sets that have unpowered driving trailers and also no flipping magic, those could then be updated easily, e.g. Austrain set 21:05:19 <TallTyler> It would be trivial to add a "vehicle_has_cab" flag later instead of using engine power, that's a minor detail to figure out later I think 21:05:54 <EmperorJake> That sounds like a good idea, TpF2 style best of both worlds 21:06:04 <TallTyler> JGR: Maybe? 21:06:25 <EmperorJake> I was thinking that too 21:06:55 <JGR> That seems like by far the most common case 21:07:15 <EmperorJake> But that could still break existing GRFs that use both double headed and magic flipping code 21:07:32 <TallTyler> That's true, they would revert to magic flip 21:07:40 <JGR> You can just not toggle the vehicle reversed bit 21:07:55 <JGR> It's not hard to hide stuff like that from GRFs 21:08:49 <Brickblock1> or only do it if front and back has `has_cab_flag` 21:10:53 <JGR> `VRF_TOGGLE_REVERSE` is only used for signalling to NewGRFs so could be easily left as 0 to disable any GRF magic flipping 21:13:04 <EmperorJake> But wouldn't GRFs still need that to change headlights/pantos when the train reverses? 21:13:24 <TallTyler> It would need to be a different flag 21:16:31 <Pruple> yes, but you can use cb36 to remove the power again 21:16:40 <Pruple> as in https://discord.com/channels/142724111502802944/1008473233844097104/1060104919920676875 21:17:12 <Pruple> @ "but what if I don't want by dvt to have power?" 21:17:47 <Pruple> that's a solution for the status quo though, not full train reversing 🙂 21:18:30 <Brickblock1> I feel like most of the things I hear about cb36 is negative 21:18:46 <Brickblock1> but that might not be true 21:19:15 <JGR> It's arguably poor interface design, but it works 21:20:13 <andythenorth> cb36 is like editing memory in place 21:20:16 <andythenorth> fine if you know what you're doing 21:20:21 <andythenorth> most of us don't 21:20:57 <andythenorth> generally, reaching for cb 36 is a sign of a questionable design 21:21:00 <andythenorth> unless it's for lolz 21:21:54 <JGR> If you stick to the well-used paths you won't have any problems 21:23:25 <JGR> That said I've got a fair few mitigations and special casing for CB36 in my branch 21:24:55 <Pruple> For trains I only usually use cb36 for two things, loading speed and reducing running costs when stationary, which is BEST FEATURE 21:25:33 <reldred> Pruple: Yup, it’s so good I made a non grf version of the feature for JGRPP 😛 21:25:49 <reldred> Because iron horse was killing me with running costs 🤣 21:28:42 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 opened pull request #10319: Cleanup 84b71f7: remove G5 detector as it's not referenced anymore https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10319 21:29:03 <andythenorth> reldred: git gud? 😛 21:29:23 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 approved pull request #10318: Codechange: refactor FindClosestDepot to not use pointers, but return struct https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10318#pullrequestreview-1236501297 21:29:28 <reldred> andythenorth: You and I play very different games I have come to realise 😛 21:29:43 <reldred> Still love horse ❤️ 21:29:54 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #10319: Cleanup 84b71f7: remove G5 detector as it's not referenced anymore https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10319#pullrequestreview-1236501773 21:30:52 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 merged pull request #10318: Codechange: refactor FindClosestDepot to not use pointers, but return struct https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10318 21:30:53 <reldred> I nearly forgot I made that patch, I should tally up all the features I made at some point, if anything just for my own reference. 21:38:38 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 21:39:49 *** gelignite has quit IRC 21:42:27 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 merged pull request #10319: Cleanup 84b71f7: remove G5 detector as it's not referenced anymore https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10319 21:44:50 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 21:45:05 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 21:45:41 *** nielsm has quit IRC 21:46:41 <JGR> `git log --author=` is your friend on that one 21:58:32 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 updated pull request #10299: Enable CodeQL code scanning https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10299 21:59:08 *** keikoz has quit IRC 21:59:56 <glx[d]> oh the "show NewGRF in build vehicle" is a setting because andythenorth 's 13" screen 22:03:56 <andythenorth> and I don't like it 😛 22:04:25 <petern> Hi 22:04:32 <petern> I did an outside 22:05:38 <TallTyler> On a bike? 22:07:34 <petern> TallTyler: TallTyler there's multiple flags for reversing and flipping 22:07:50 <petern> Yes on bike 22:09:27 <TallTyler> Yeah I figured that out 🙂 22:09:43 <petern> Phone scroll back isn't great 22:09:50 <TallTyler> Agreed 22:10:16 <petern> Solution: never go outside again 22:10:18 <TallTyler> There was a whole debate about flags and NewGRF behavior but my focus right now is just fixing crashes 22:10:30 <petern> Good call 22:12:36 <TallTyler> Oops I did `git pull` instead of `git fetch` on the shunting patch, time to reset… 22:18:43 <reldred> I think just starting off with the special vehicle order like you said is the best starting point, grf authors will argue for decades on how best to implement it depending entirely on how much tech debt they’ve acquired in their work 😛 22:19:15 <TallTyler> Yeah I'm not particularly interested in trying to make GRFs backwards-compatible 22:20:29 <TallTyler> Time to rebase shunting patch to master before comparing it with my fork...wish me luck 😬 22:20:40 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 22:21:46 <reldred> Yeap, special order for folks who want to use it, otherwise leave the rest of the game alone, if set authors want to support it they will. 22:22:05 <reldred> Good starting point 22:22:11 <TallTyler> Baby steps 🙂 22:22:34 <reldred> I’d personally like ways to enforce it, but that can wait 22:22:50 <TallTyler> Oof, time to rebase 100 commits 22:22:56 <TallTyler> RIP me 22:23:01 <JGR> This doesn't seem all that user friendly 22:23:39 <JGR> Adding a order flag which doesn't work with the vast majority of GRFs will create a large support problem 22:24:14 <JGR> Unless you can automatically hide the flag from the UI 22:24:16 <TallTyler> It does work with most GRFs, just not the ones that have their own push-pull magic 22:24:23 <TallTyler> Maybe I misunderstand you 22:25:26 <JGR> You seemed to suggest making it opt-in, but if that's not the intention that would make sense 22:29:06 <TallTyler> My thinking is that vehicles only reverse if the player gives them a Reverse order. If the rear vehicle is an engine (or maybe if it has some NewGRF flag to be determined later), it can go full speed, otherwise it's restricted to entering-a-depot speed 22:29:20 <TallTyler> So yes, fully opt-in on the player's end and mostly a visual change 22:30:02 <TallTyler> I would consider having vehicles with engines (or cabs, TBD later) on both ends automatically reverse, but that's a discussion for later 22:33:14 <petern> End of line? Or at platforms? 22:33:23 <TallTyler> Either 22:33:33 <TallTyler> I'm using waypoints to make wyes/triangles in my test game 22:34:15 <TallTyler> You'd need a Reverse order right after the `Go via waypoint` order 22:35:03 <reldred> I like. Gib nao. 22:38:21 <Pruple> as my 2c, reverse orders sound like a bad idea, as they serve no gameplay purpose. For newgrf compatibility purposes, I'd say if a train doesn't meet your full-speed-reverse criteria, it should flip as normal. If it does meet the criteria, you should reverse it, but hide the fact that it's reversed from the newgrf (ie force the flip bit to 0), unless the loco has a flag set to say it knows this feature exists. 22:38:49 <Pruple> that would keep all existing newgrfs (mostly) working, and allow new newgrfs to still set different front/back graphics for reversed trains (eg different lights) 22:38:51 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 22:39:21 <TallTyler> That would be much easier, yes 22:40:57 <andythenorth> I have no 2c 22:41:16 <michi_cc[d]> TallTyler: Tangentially related to the whole reversing stuff, I started on https://github.com/michicc/OpenTTD/commits/consist quite some time ago (not very up-to-date either) as it seems quite wasteful to me that each vehicle stores a lot of stuff that is actually not per `Vehicle`, but per vehicle chain. 22:41:46 <andythenorth> ^ subscribe 22:41:51 <andythenorth> pls send newsletter 22:42:23 <michi_cc[d]> The idea behind this is of course that if you separate the once-per-chain variables from `Vehicle`, shenenigangs with the vehicle chain become easier. 22:42:48 <michi_cc[d]> andythenorth: Sorry, but despite the name consist this has nothing to to with template replacement or anyxthing in this direction. 22:43:01 <andythenorth> nah I get that 🙂 22:43:22 <JGR> The assumptions about vehicle chains, head vehicles etc are baked fairly deep all over the codebase 22:43:29 <JGR> It's a big job to get rid of all that 22:43:39 <michi_cc[d]> In fact the branch as it is now in its unfinished state has no player-visible effect at all. 22:44:42 <andythenorth> not sure why it seems more correct to me 22:44:45 <andythenorth> it just does 22:46:13 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 22:46:53 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 22:48:43 <glx[d]> even without consist I can see useful changes in your branch 22:49:38 <michi_cc[d]> And going back to the earlier discussion about when to reverse (auto/only by order etc), the forum post somebody (was it 2TT?) from frosch is basically exactly how I would design it, and I don't think my opinion has changed very much since then (which is TLDR don't assume users find any optional thing and just make it apply always with some NewGRF flags for control). 22:50:08 <michi_cc[d]> glx[d]: Cherry-picks welcome 🙂 22:50:15 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 22:52:20 <andythenorth> oof ffwd is latched again on macos 🙂 22:52:37 <andythenorth> ok fixed it 😛 22:52:51 <andythenorth> can't file a bug, can't see any obvious repro 😛 22:53:47 <glx[d]> it's easy to reproduce, press the FFWD key, release it during autosave 🙂 22:54:12 <glx[d]> but it should not happen in recent enough master 22:54:34 <andythenorth> I think this is something different now 22:54:42 <andythenorth> this latches on and won't clear for some time 22:54:53 <andythenorth> button doesn't respond, tab key doesn't respond 22:55:01 <andythenorth> then it seems to self-clear 22:57:44 <Pruple> ffwd variants? 23:00:37 <petern> Hmm 23:02:48 <TallTyler> michi_cc[d]: Happen to have any to-do list of what remains to be done? I'm skeptical that my current approach will bear fruit, as I don't fully understand the current implementation and probably need to start from scratch. 😕 23:03:09 <TallTyler> Starting with simplifying trains to consists would be a good place to begin 23:03:47 <TallTyler> Although for now it's probably outside my skillset, so I think I'll go back to playing with time tomorrow, as that is within my current abilities 23:04:09 <TallTyler> Sorry reldred and others who got their hopes up about push-pull anytime soon 😛 23:04:09 <andythenorth> adjusting time is really quite desirable 23:04:26 <TallTyler> It's tied with autoseparation for my most-wanted feature 23:04:42 <andythenorth> I would like to run tech tree progression about 50% slower right now 23:04:46 <andythenorth> without affecting anything else 23:04:56 <andythenorth> I could do it in grf 23:05:07 <TallTyler> I'm pretty confident that I can pull off adjusting time in base game using nielsmh's approach 23:05:34 <andythenorth> I have no need of RL dates 23:05:34 <TallTyler> Most of the challenging bits are UI decisions, which I can handle much better than understanding train movement code 23:05:42 <TallTyler> I guess I'm a front-end dev 😛 23:05:53 <andythenorth> the only thing about elapsed real time is it shows how long I've spent on a game 😛 23:05:54 <andythenorth> such 23:06:14 <TallTyler> I would have been happy with groundhog year but that was shot down as an ugly hack, which is completely fair 23:06:29 <andythenorth> fair 23:06:40 * andythenorth -> sleep 23:06:46 <TallTyler> Good night 23:06:54 <TallTyler> No more code for me today either 23:10:02 *** Samu has quit IRC 23:10:48 <michi_cc[d]> TallTyler: The biggest missing chunk is all the order-related things I guess. And then basically just checking all members of `Vehicle` if they are indeed for each single vehicle. 23:11:54 <TallTyler> Something for me to explore in a few months, perhaps, unless you get to it first 🙂 23:12:32 *** didac has quit IRC 23:12:35 <TallTyler> Need to stay realistic about my current abilities 23:12:36 <michi_cc[d]> I think I wanted to try YACD2 first. And if I ever get too bored :raymmuLOL: there's always my newmap branch .) 23:12:55 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 23:13:06 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 23:14:53 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 23:15:29 <TallTyler> Yeah, my current feature project list is: 23:15:29 <TallTyler> 1. Time (adjustable date progression with separate economic time converted to real-time units) 23:15:29 <TallTyler> 2. Upstream autoseparation from JGRPP 23:15:29 <TallTyler> 3. Real-world map generation using GIS software and JSON imports 23:15:29 <TallTyler> Plus whatever else distracts me in the meantime 😛 23:17:15 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #10314: Codechange: Don't use a dense matrix to store LinkGraph edges. https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10314#issuecomment-1371536289 23:20:20 <michi_cc[d]> Well, newmap is in the 80% (well, pretend 80% with the second 80% missing 🙂 ) done state since the 2010 party 🙂 23:20:49 <Pruple> 80% done, 80% to go? sounds like typical dev cycle 23:21:23 <michi_cc[d]> The 80% with 20% of the time and the 20% with 80% of the time. 23:22:06 <petern> Is there any performance output for it? 23:22:30 <petern> "Cargo handling" in the framerate GUI I guess. 23:23:30 <michi_cc[d]> Not really I think, as the linkgraph update code is background-threaded, so only becomes visible if the update takes longer than the allocated time. I didn't touch the actual cargopacket handling. 23:24:21 <michi_cc[d]> The other consumer is linkgraph overlay GUI, and I'm not sure how to measure that well. 23:32:10 <glx[d]> overlay is part of ViewportDoDraw() and included in PFE_DRAWWORLD measuring 23:32:35 <reldred> TallTyler: sorry was out and about, what's wrong with your reversing branch? won't merge with trunk? 23:33:04 <glx[d]> merge fine, but has bugs 23:34:43 <TallTyler> Has a crash I don’t know how to fix and after messing around with the shunting patch, I realized I don’t have the knowledge to fix it on my own 23:35:12 <TallTyler> Train movement isn’t one of those things where I can kludge together code until it seems to work 23:35:29 <TallTyler> It’s a project for later 🙂 23:35:48 <petern> Probably would be worth 'waiting' for this consist patch? (as an excuse at least) 23:36:04 <glx[d]> I think nobody want's to touch train movement 🙂 23:36:25 <glx[d]> there are some area like that in the code 23:36:26 <JGR> The lack of consists is one of the reasons why I fended off people trying to get me to look at the shunting patch 23:40:05 <petern> Weird, two OpenTTDs side by side, one is 0.04ms video output, the other is 0.51ms video output. 23:40:48 <petern> Oh, first is #10314, second is master. I somehow doubt it but... 23:41:35 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 23:42:58 <petern> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1060342610826383360/image.png 23:42:58 <petern> hmm 23:43:14 <petern> Probably not comparable 🙂 23:43:23 <michi_cc[d]> Well, how many stations are interconnected? A large linkgraph will complete trash L1/L2 caches, so maybe in actually does help indirectly with drawing by being more cache-efficient. 23:43:51 <petern> I, uh, took Wentbourne and enabled cargodist. Not a good test 🙂 23:43:58 <michi_cc[d]> Well, the less memory usage is definitely something expected. 23:45:01 <michi_cc[d]> Wentbourne isn't that interconnected, is it? So indeed not the greatest test case. 23:45:40 <Fairy> What's currently being worked on? Something to do with cargodist? 23:45:41 <petern> Dunno, might be all point to point? 23:51:51 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 23:54:16 <reldred> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1060345452421197914/eca.jpg 23:54:16 <reldred> TallTyler: 23:55:46 <reldred> I had my hopes up for actually being able to make terminus stations without throwing up in my mouth when a train magically reverses. I will continue to exclusively build roro's