Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:03:31 <glx[d]> andythenorth: I don't see why it should not, it's using cmake 00:04:02 <andythenorth> grfcodec cmake seems to be looking for an XCode 12 SDK 00:04:22 <andythenorth> and the build wants some libs that are deprecated / missing 00:04:23 <glx[d]> clear the cache 00:05:08 <andythenorth> every time I forget 😐 00:05:10 <andythenorth> oops 00:05:43 <glx[d]> (that should fix the sdk thing) 00:06:01 <andythenorth> it did 🙂 00:12:35 <petern> `#include"nforenum.h"` 00:12:44 <petern> Who writes code like that, with no spaces? 00:13:00 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 00:13:06 <dwfreed> animals 00:16:39 <reldred> Disgusting 00:16:56 <petern> `if(_grfver<7&&lang&0x60&&(lang&0x7F)!=0x7F)IssueMessage(WARNING3,UNKNOWN_LANG_BIT,2,lang);` 00:17:00 <petern> Aw yeah 00:24:43 <Pruple> what did I do? 🙂 00:24:53 <Pruple> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1061440322036576346/sunshine_airport.grf 00:25:07 <Pruple> start game > 1930, build "small airport", crash 🙂 00:26:36 <petern> I was going to go to sleep... 00:27:25 <andythenorth> me too 00:27:37 <andythenorth> have important things to do tomorrow 00:27:41 <andythenorth> like get up, have coffee 00:27:44 <andythenorth> not feel like crap 🙂 00:29:26 <glx[d]> petern: and that's one of the 2 different coding styles in the whole project 00:30:03 <petern> Pruple: Hmm, so the cost to build was different 00:31:05 <petern> 9300 in test, 9225 in exec. 00:35:26 <petern> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1061442977928585267/image.png 00:35:26 <petern> Hmm 00:38:16 <Pruple> oops, defined some tile locations overlapping. is that the problem? 🙂 00:38:39 <petern> That... could be a problem. 00:40:18 <Pruple> that seems to fix it. 🙂 panic over. 00:40:35 <Pruple> /me learn to count to 4 00:56:21 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 00:56:28 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 01:13:19 <reldred> vs code with the nml extension is very comfy 01:13:21 <reldred> I like this 01:19:25 *** supermop_Home_ has quit IRC 01:21:53 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 01:22:29 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 01:35:37 *** gelignite has quit IRC 01:39:48 <reldred> alright, multi tile buildings in NML, let's see how badly I stuff this up 01:55:23 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #10330: Codechange: Rework 'start_date' parameter for AIs as a game setting https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10330#pullrequestreview-1239720921 02:06:46 <reldred> Hmm, converting multi tile building logic from objects to houses isn't quite so simple 02:07:56 <reldred> hmm maybe this doesn't need to be that complicated, I'm not doing randomization on these 02:17:56 <reldred> lmao it worked lol 02:51:03 <reldred> this nml stuff isn't too bad I suppose 02:58:11 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 03:24:41 *** godbed has joined #openttd 03:28:03 *** debdog has quit IRC 03:49:27 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 04:16:00 *** TROILUS6 has joined #openttd 04:21:38 *** TROILUS has quit IRC 04:21:39 *** TROILUS6 is now known as TROILUS 04:51:39 <reldred> I've gotten more done in about three sessions worth of nml'ing than I did in months of developing this same set in NFO 😳 04:52:09 <reldred> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1061507582646288495/image.png 04:52:09 <reldred> So many buildings 04:52:22 <reldred> I still need to sort out stats for the buildings, cargo acceptance, etc. 04:52:36 <reldred> min pop requirements, etc. 05:00:09 *** keikoz has joined #openttd 05:21:14 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 07:12:42 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 07:34:43 <pickpacket> reldred: do regular houses have cargo acceptance? Is that why it varies whether a city accepts passengers or not? 07:35:32 <reldred> yes 07:36:02 <reldred> not a lot of house sets implement accepting anything other than food or goods though 07:36:37 <reldred> I want this set to have rich commercial areas or light industrial areas so I'll get to play around with the cargo acceptance a bit 07:36:54 <reldred> ruin the careful balance of FIRS, and so forth 07:38:10 <pickpacket> lol 07:38:42 <pickpacket> I was about to ask about food, but I guess that’s a FIRS thing 07:39:00 <pickpacket> I’ve only played vanilla + tea tea deluxe 07:39:04 <reldred> No food is a thing in sub arctic in vanilla ttd 07:39:11 <pickpacket> Oh! 07:39:25 <reldred> I can’t remember whether it is in sub tropic 07:40:05 <Merni> petern: That does look stupid but I've seen plenty of `#include<stdio.h>` and imo that looks less stupid 07:53:20 <dwfreed> #include"file.h" is a lot worse than #include<file.h>, but both are bad 08:07:38 <andythenorth> moin 08:08:27 <reldred> final stretch, just got a few shopping centres to code up then I can tweak stats 08:08:35 <Pruple> boin 08:08:41 <andythenorth> goes it ruin FIRS 08:08:48 <Pruple> frequently 08:08:48 <andythenorth> that delicate cargo town balance 08:09:09 <reldred> andythenorth: absolutely 08:09:16 <andythenorth> Pruple: I am deleting most 2020 edition Horse wagons, subscribe? 08:09:24 <reldred> I'm going to give you reason to need to block my grfid 08:09:29 <Pruple> it's like taking a sledgehammer to a sledgehammer testing facility 08:09:32 <reldred> and then, I'll just change the grfid again 08:09:47 <andythenorth> Horse gen 6 is gen 5, with 4 tons more, and 3 different pixels 08:10:08 <reldred> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1061557405260980265/image.png 08:10:08 <reldred> tesco next to the kfc 08:10:14 <Pruple> andythenorth: I am generally in favour of fewer vehicles, less confusing for players and less to balance/draw 🙂 08:10:20 <reldred> and a maccies just down the road 08:10:36 <andythenorth> Pruple: but there might be an increase in 1990 wagons 😛 08:10:47 <Pruple> 1990 is a lot of wagons 😮 08:10:59 <andythenorth> I suspect my unwritten goal is to never build the same train twice 😛 08:11:02 <reldred> future horse future horse 08:11:07 <reldred> future horse 08:13:33 <Pruple> huh 08:14:38 <andythenorth> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1061558531993632868/image.png 08:14:38 <andythenorth> reldred: enjoying the actual realism there 08:14:43 <andythenorth> you have modelled where I live 08:15:22 <reldred> lmao 08:15:29 <reldred> but where's the maccies 08:17:18 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 08:18:28 <andythenorth> they don't have one there 08:20:06 <reldred> no maccies? 😮 08:21:44 <reldred> two more sets of supermarkets 08:21:49 <reldred> and then I think I'm done 08:25:48 <andythenorth> 28 Horse wagons deleted so far 08:37:01 <reldred> Okay, how do these bitmasks in NML work? If I want availability mask to say for instance allow only two particular zones do I do [bitmask(TOWNZONE_CENTRE | TOWNZONE_INNER_SUBURB)] ? 08:38:39 <andythenorth> commas 08:38:51 <andythenorth> bitmask(CC_PASSENGERS, CC_MAIL, CC_ARMOURED) 08:38:56 <reldred> gotcha 08:39:03 <reldred> arigatou gozaimasu 08:39:05 <andythenorth> sometimes you have to & it with the var 08:39:40 <andythenorth> cargo_classes & bitmask(CC_PASSENGERS, CC_MAIL, CC_ARMOURED) 08:41:25 <reldred> nice, well that's the next task then, going through and giving all these buildings the correct stats 08:45:35 <andythenorth> Horse will be v3 then 08:45:40 <andythenorth> leave v2 alone I think 08:45:52 <andythenorth> then Reddit can be confused 08:46:12 <reldred> lol, lmao. 08:46:53 <petern> And me. 08:47:13 <andythenorth> be confused on Reddit 08:47:16 <andythenorth> it's the special place for it 08:54:02 <reldred> rude 08:54:15 <reldred> andy woke up this morning and chose violence 08:57:42 <andythenorth> I suspect I made poor choices 😛 08:58:08 <andythenorth> went to sleep at 2am 08:58:14 <andythenorth> one of my kids woke up noisily at 6am 08:59:08 <andythenorth> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1061569737525571584/image.png 08:59:08 <andythenorth> on the plus side, if I delete one more engine, magic 150 08:59:43 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 08:59:58 <reldred> kids these days have it too easy, if I'd have woken my parents up at 6am I'd be thrashed within an inch of my life 09:01:15 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 09:21:39 <andythenorth> did I crash Bananas? 09:22:01 <andythenorth> nope, it just needed a think 09:41:14 <reldred> okay, basic stats and basic intro years done, now we watch the city grow on fast forward 09:44:42 <andythenorth> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1061581203427299428/image.png 09:44:42 <andythenorth> crashed it again 😄 09:44:52 <reldred> I need to put some minimum ages on these buildings 09:45:10 <reldred> dirty great block of flats goes up, and gets knocked down 2 minutes later 09:45:48 *** Fairy has joined #openttd 09:45:48 <Fairy> indecisive urban planners 09:45:58 <reldred> skyscraper got knocked down and replaced with a maccies 09:45:58 <Fairy> "You know what, no, I think it should go like, five meters to the left" 09:46:11 <Fairy> "Who needs homes when you can make money instead?" 09:48:39 <petern> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1061582197741588591/image.png 09:48:39 <petern> Cool, seems like I have no broken that... yet. 09:51:12 <petern> Although maybe the list could be expanded widthwise. 09:51:17 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 09:53:13 <petern> Hmm, is this vinyl damaged or is the battery in the pre-amp running low... 09:53:48 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 09:57:56 <petern> Ah, gotta be the battery 😦 10:00:51 <reldred> Okay let's see how this behaves with min ages 10:02:40 <andythenorth> the crashes might be related to variants changing in the grf 10:02:47 <andythenorth> but only triggers with groups 10:03:04 <andythenorth> and is triggered either by opening autoreplace on the group, or switching autoreplace from engines to wagons 10:03:18 <andythenorth> deleting the groups and remaking them eliminates the issue 10:03:29 <petern> Huh 10:03:32 <andythenorth> does not trigger for 'all trains' or 'ungrouped trains' 10:03:52 <petern> Do you not get a backtrace when you get that error popup? 10:04:03 <andythenorth> I do but the mac backtrace is crap 10:04:12 <petern> It shouldn't be. 10:04:50 <andythenorth> https://gist.github.com/andythenorth/bf7e02e8117b9d5a3b1d9675774bcda5 10:05:38 <petern> Message: Assertion failed at line 750 of /Users/runner/work/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/src/widget_type.h: this->count <= this->cap ? (position == 0) : (position + this->cap <= this->count) 10:06:14 <petern> That tells me it's an issue populating scrollbar info. 10:07:46 <petern> Your stacktrace is mostly fine. The useless stacktraces of our builds were fixed by #10072. 10:08:30 <andythenorth> \o/ 10:08:51 * andythenorth behind the times 10:24:06 <LordAro> andythenorth: giv bug report 10:24:40 <andythenorth> reloaded grfs 10:24:45 <andythenorth> no bug reports 10:24:49 <andythenorth> remember the rules? 🙂 10:24:55 <andythenorth> automatic close 10:25:27 <LordAro> ah 10:25:30 <andythenorth> can't get a repro in a fresh game 10:25:51 <LordAro> well, still might be worth looking into 10:26:01 <LordAro> may be some "corrupt savegame" protection that could be added 10:26:15 <reldred> some of these random jobbies aren't working properly 😠 10:29:34 *** Samu has joined #openttd 10:37:28 <reldred> Okay, got a curly one, if I do this: 10:37:28 <reldred> `` sprite: spriteset_tbs1_2((animation_frame + random_bits) % 3);`` 10:37:28 <reldred> Or any other odd number, the randomization works 10:37:28 <reldred> If I do an even number: 10:37:28 <reldred> `` sprite: spriteset_tbs1_3((animation_frame + random_bits) % 4);`` 10:37:29 <reldred> It doesn't work? 10:38:35 <reldred> TBH, I don't even know why that animation frame bizzo is even in there, this is fridaemons newobjects nml I've converted to newhouses 10:40:58 <andythenorth> well let's see if I can crash it deliberately 10:44:12 <andythenorth> 'maybe' 10:46:30 <reldred> I'll try pseudo random bits instead of random bits 10:47:22 <andythenorth> ok seems that the crash requires reloading a grf that has actually been modified 10:47:27 <reldred> hmm, no, that doesn't work 10:52:41 <Samu> what are annotations 11:04:55 <petern> Samu, https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10330/files#annotation_7764202474 11:10:23 <Samu> I see 11:14:05 <reldred> I don't get this, why, would random_bits % 4 work fine in a switch block but not in a sprite layout 11:14:20 <reldred> mod 3 or 5 or 9 works fine in a sprite layout, 11:15:30 <Samu> okay the problem is the widget selection. I wanna close WC_QUERY_STRING in a smart manner 11:20:43 <JGR> reldred: `% 4` only looks at the lowest two bits, if the "randomness" was all in other parts you could have issues? 11:22:52 <reldred> hmm 11:24:01 <reldred> So the full line from fridaemons object set nml is this: 11:24:01 <reldred> `` sprite: spriteset_tbs1_2((animation_frame + nearby_tile_random_bits(0,0)) % 4);`` 11:24:25 <reldred> is that just an inherit difference between how nearby_tile_random_bits(0,0) works? 11:24:40 <reldred> or is this relying on the animation frame to actually do something? 11:25:33 <reldred> but likewise I wouldn't get why % 3 would work but % 4 wouldn't? 11:26:47 <reldred> and random_bits % 4 works fine in a switch block 11:27:06 <JGR> Presumably this is to add an offset to your animation so they're not synchronised? 11:27:37 <reldred> These aren't even animated, it's just picking a random sprite 11:29:11 <reldred> I have a workaround now, oh well 11:29:14 <reldred> Just a bit weird 11:31:12 <JGR> Could be that the original was doing something fancy, might be worth checking for other animation and random related things 11:32:17 <reldred> here we go, found these: 11:32:17 <reldred> `` anim_control: return CB_RESULT_NEXT_FRAME; 11:32:17 <reldred> anim_next_frame: return CB_RESULT_NEXT_FRAME;`` 11:32:25 <reldred> in the graphics section of the item 11:33:28 <TonyPixel> What if write IDE for NML 🤔 11:35:51 <petern> Hmm, type-safety but it's via templates, so the error is... very verbose. 11:36:15 <reldred> Nope, that did nothing 11:40:04 <JGR> Are you using random triggers? 11:40:33 <reldred> I barely know what I'm doing at this stage 11:40:53 <reldred> it's late and I've spent the whole day staring at NML 😛 11:41:01 <reldred> My brain is pickled at this stage 11:41:19 <andythenorth> animation is pissy because there are about 4 ways to do it 11:41:39 <andythenorth> so it always feels like you might have picked the wrong one 11:41:57 <andythenorth> * lots of ways is good, it's flexible 11:42:01 <reldred> I'm turning in for the night, later all 11:42:05 <andythenorth> o/ 11:42:10 <JGR> Good night 11:47:58 <reldred> o/ 11:48:40 <andythenorth> hmm do we need Variant Categories? 😛 11:50:50 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #10330: Codechange: Rework 'start_date' parameter for AIs as a game setting https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10330#pullrequestreview-1239770355 11:51:42 <andythenorth> or maybe icons in the vehicle list for each generation? 😛 11:55:51 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #10330: Codechange: Rework 'start_date' parameter for AIs as a game setting https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10330#pullrequestreview-1239770963 11:55:55 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #10330: Codechange: Rework 'start_date' parameter for AIs as a game setting https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10330#pullrequestreview-1239770973 11:56:21 <andythenorth> Hmm 11:57:39 <andythenorth> Specifically I want to make it easy to tell differen generations of vehicle apart in the buy menu. I try to draw them visually distinct but not always easy 11:58:27 <andythenorth> How about I overlay a tombstone icon when it’s near end of model life? 😛 11:59:15 <andythenorth> I mocked up a ‘new’ sticker as well once, pretty sure frosch was going to code it, yez/no? 12:07:57 <petern> o_O 12:08:19 <Samu> InteractiveRandomRange is this multiplayer safe? 12:09:12 <Samu> AIs are started by the server 12:09:44 <Samu> so, i expect InteractiveRandomRange to not sync with clients, I think... 12:10:08 <Samu> otherwise, server runs a different course 12:19:38 <Samu> well ai_start_next is synced between multiplayer servers, it actually doesn't require sync if I think about it 12:20:00 <Samu> only the server can start AIs 12:23:22 <petern> Between servers? Have you federated them? 12:23:48 <Samu> between server and client 12:24:17 <Samu> what i mean is 12:24:29 <Samu> InteractiveRandomRange is only run on the server, clients don't run it 12:24:36 <Samu> will it be cause for desyncs? 12:28:01 <Samu> gonna test it atm 12:59:26 *** murr4y has quit IRC 13:06:40 *** murr4y has joined #openttd 13:08:35 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 13:10:57 *** Samu_ has joined #openttd 13:14:46 *** Samu has quit IRC 13:39:56 <Samu_> it's been 1 hour, no desyncs 13:45:08 *** Samu_ has quit IRC 13:45:30 *** Samu has joined #openttd 13:54:58 <Samu> got a crash, trying to load an old savegame 13:56:08 <Samu> ScriptObject::ActiveInstance::ActiveInstance(ScriptInstance *instance) : alc_scope(instance->engine) 13:56:16 <Samu> instance was nullptr. 13:57:59 <Samu> let me try on 12.2 14:03:57 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: make the buy menu sprite depend on the current year? 14:05:44 <petern> Game could easily do it but we can't change anything 14:07:10 <Samu> loads fine on 12.2 14:16:54 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: Yup might try it 14:17:33 <petern> As intro date is randomized it'll be a big vague. 14:18:06 <Eddi|zuHause> i like to use "early retirement" to force them out of the buy menu 14:24:09 <Samu> emergency save also crashes, that's funny! 14:24:52 <petern> Does it crash in master? 14:27:37 <glx[d]> Loading of scripts in 12.2 was different, so test master and right before #9745 merge 14:33:02 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick opened issue #10331: [Crash]: Loading old savegame with only an AI in it https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/10331 14:34:36 <Samu> yes, crashes in master 14:35:12 <Samu> it's trying to broadcast news to other AIs, but their instances are nullptr 14:36:32 <LordAro> how odd 14:37:58 <glx[d]> The log says 2 human companies 14:38:27 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #10331: [Crash]: Loading old savegame with only an AI in it https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/10331 14:45:26 *** geli has joined #openttd 14:48:24 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 14:52:51 *** gelignite has quit IRC 15:08:26 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 15:11:34 <Samu> the "start_date" getting in the way of those crash reports 15:13:15 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 15:16:54 <michi_cc[d]> Any plans from anybody on a RC2 (or a .0)? 15:26:20 <andythenorth> petern: goes it a var for intro date? 😛 15:26:23 <andythenorth> maybe there is one 15:27:10 <andythenorth> 80+ vehicles var 02? 15:27:27 <andythenorth> or is it one of those 80+ vars that can't be trusted? 😛 15:27:59 <andythenorth> "Date of the introduction" http://www.ttdpatch.de/grfspecs/Transport_Tycoon_Deluxe_savegame_internals.html 15:28:02 <petern> `0x02: break; // not implemented` 15:28:09 <andythenorth> lol TTDP only? 15:28:44 <petern> Deliberately, it would be wonky for anything outside the original years. 15:28:46 <andythenorth> a var for 'is vehicle with ID X available || in exclusive preview' 15:28:57 <andythenorth> but that might have circularities or something, dunno 15:29:00 <andythenorth> there was probably a reason 15:29:16 <petern> I like the idea of just having extra info, either in the list or in the details. 15:29:27 <petern> (And not requiring NewGRF to have to do it) 15:30:06 <andythenorth> it's one of those things...all my suggestions are half-assed, based on little tweaks to the current spec 15:30:06 <petern> michi_cc[d]: Not me but I might have a look at some bugs. 15:30:31 <andythenorth> I'm only thinking of hacks on what we can do now, instead of what would be good 15:30:37 <petern> "But now it clutters the purchase list" 15:30:38 <andythenorth> half-assed 15:31:02 <Samu> how do i test an old version of openttd, trying to run openttd as of 6953df7b 15:31:26 <Samu> I forgot how to do it 15:31:32 <petern> git checkout 6953df7b 15:32:20 <andythenorth> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1061668690233405550/image.png 15:32:20 <andythenorth> it's only this period of time when the wagons overlap that I find confusing 15:33:08 <andythenorth> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1061668891316723782/image.png 15:33:08 <andythenorth> it's fine when there's a big visual change 15:33:34 <petern> Make them variants 😉 15:33:38 <andythenorth> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1061669014104981624/image.png 15:33:38 <andythenorth> but some types have limited scope 😛 15:33:40 <andythenorth> yeah considered variants 15:34:18 <andythenorth> "Gen 5 Bulkhead Flat Wagon" or something 15:34:20 <andythenorth> also 15:34:22 <andythenorth> or overlays 15:34:53 <andythenorth> or a filter that hides vehicles introduced > % of the model life 15:35:10 <andythenorth> or drawing them to look more different 😛 15:35:43 <andythenorth> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1061669540234272818/image.png 15:35:43 <andythenorth> engines just don't have the same visual difficulty 15:36:00 <andythenorth> RV trucks do have this issue though 15:42:50 <andythenorth> hmm what does buy menu look like in other train games 15:43:08 <petern> Not so many different choices :p 15:43:53 * andythenorth reads about train fever modding 15:44:16 <andythenorth> https://www.transportfever2.com/wiki/doku.php?id=modding:vehicleadvancedtopics 15:44:29 <andythenorth> oh groups and variants 15:44:35 <andythenorth> identical terminology maybe 15:44:42 <andythenorth> convergent evolution 😛 15:45:34 <andythenorth> oh they have conventions for buy menu sprites 15:45:46 <andythenorth> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1061672069248589955/image.png 15:45:46 <andythenorth> one of them is to overlap 15:46:04 <andythenorth> tried something like that for random wagons 15:47:10 <petern> We do that for vehicle lists when they're grouped. 15:47:31 <petern> Could be done for purchase list but our sprites are much smaller. 15:47:46 <petern> We also don't do side-on view. 15:48:33 <andythenorth> I could composite it for sprites, and see how it looks 15:48:37 <andythenorth> probably bad 15:48:40 <andythenorth> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1061672800391282748/fetch.png 15:48:40 <andythenorth> meanwhile 15:48:52 <andythenorth> that's not massively interesting as a UI 15:49:00 <petern> "It's too big" 15:49:02 <andythenorth> it's just more panels than we have 15:49:36 <petern> Do you compose it there, or does it just come pre-built like articulateds? 15:51:10 <andythenorth> I think it's pre-built 15:51:36 <andythenorth> `To create the image do the following steps: 15:51:36 <andythenorth> Take up to 4 of the available variants 15:51:36 <andythenorth> Place them 30 pixels apart of each other with the right one being at the front 15:51:36 <andythenorth> Make an approximately 2 pixel wide gap between the variants to improve the contrast` 15:51:37 <andythenorth> etc 15:51:52 <andythenorth> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1061673602971336875/pic1.png 15:51:52 <andythenorth> Voxel Tycoon buy menu 15:51:58 <andythenorth> has colours instead of suffixes 15:52:00 <andythenorth> green = powered 15:52:10 <andythenorth> purple = advanced multiple unit capabilities 15:53:52 <petern> Each cell could be coloured... 15:54:04 <petern> "What colour" 15:55:04 <andythenorth> meh, Horse docs do that already, it's lacking a key 😛 15:55:19 <andythenorth> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1061674473222324326/image.png 15:55:46 <andythenorth> I didn't find anything better than what we have 😛 15:56:56 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 15:57:00 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 16:01:55 <Samu> how do i start openttd in visual studio but with "-D -g D:\OpenTTD\openttd-12.2-windows-win64\test_9720.sav" in front of it? 16:02:02 <Samu> wanna debug 16:10:15 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on issue #10331: [Crash]: Loading old savegame with only an AI in it https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/10331 16:16:52 *** TROILUS9 has joined #openttd 16:16:56 <andythenorth> hmm 16:17:16 <andythenorth> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1061679995820449802/image.png 16:17:16 <andythenorth> all dual-head diesels/electrics could have equivalent single unit 16:17:23 <andythenorth> and all single units could have a dual head option 16:17:34 <andythenorth> but something is weird about it 16:17:41 <petern> "buy two single heads and flip one" 16:18:00 <andythenorth> seems like I'd want to reset the entire tech tree to do this 16:18:43 <Rubidium> so #10331 sounds like a bug we would want to solve before a proper release, right? Would starting the company maybe also be moved to the same location as the afterload stuff for AIs (i.e. start that company after the AIs?) 16:19:29 <Rubidium> I reckon such a change warrants another RC, to get at least some chance of finding issues with that approach before millions download the game 16:20:00 <petern> Good call, I'll try moving it to the end. 16:21:07 <petern> Doesn't crash at least 🙂 16:22:26 *** TROILUS has quit IRC 16:22:26 *** TROILUS9 is now known as TROILUS 16:27:39 <petern> Doesn't affect scenarios with gamescript, so it's just this case of a samegame with ai but no human player. 16:30:00 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 16:30:35 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #10332: Fix #10331: Starting new company during load must happen after AI start. https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10332 16:31:19 <petern> I don't know what happens if there's no room for a human company... 16:33:06 <LordAro> *explosion noises* 16:34:32 *** supermop_Home_ has joined #openttd 16:42:03 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 commented on pull request #10332: Fix #10331: Starting new company during load must happen after AI start. https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10332#pullrequestreview-1239808267 17:00:00 <Samu> i can test that, i presume it goes into the first company 17:06:21 <Samu> I'm getting a "Could not start the server" error message :/ 17:10:24 <Samu> i could create servers earlier today, now suddenly i get this message 17:11:31 <Samu> dbg: [net] getaddrinfo for hostname ":", port 1, address family either IPv4 or IPv6 and socket type tcp failed: Este anfitri├úo n├úo ├® conhecido. 17:11:31 <Samu> dbg: [net] Could not start network: could not create listening socket 17:11:56 <petern> Have you left a server running? 17:12:14 <petern> (Not sure if we pick a specific port any more) 17:12:50 <LordAro> looks like bad input 17:13:02 <LordAro> 'hostname ":", port 1' 17:13:30 <Samu> is that in openttd.cfg? 17:15:42 <Samu> i remember running a command line with -D ::1 - g savegame.sav 17:15:59 <petern> That probably did it 🙂 17:16:06 <Samu> what did i do to ruin it? 17:16:18 <LordAro> ::1 is not doing what you think it is 17:17:20 <LordAro> [::1] might work better 17:18:19 <Samu> 3979 17:18:27 <Samu> i still can't start server :( 17:18:48 <Rubidium> yup, the colons of IPv6 need to be between square brackets. And then [::1] just means localhost 17:19:09 <petern> Would be nice if invalid input didn't get saved and break it? 17:20:00 <Samu> I followed this https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/9720#issuecomment-980810040 17:20:08 <Samu> and bricked myself from hosting servers :( 17:20:19 <Samu> how do i undo? 17:20:22 <petern> You can just edit the config... 17:23:46 <Samu> where is it reading the ":" from in openttd.cfg 17:23:50 <Samu> can't find 17:24:16 <LordAro> if you're running -D ::1, it's not 17:24:29 <LordAro> ::1 is being parsed as hostname ":", port 1 17:24:50 <LordAro> hence, wrap it in square brackets 17:24:54 <LordAro> as RB & I said 17:25:03 <Samu> im not using any command line now 17:25:09 <Samu> i found the port problem 17:25:13 <Samu> but not the hostname 17:25:25 <supermop_Home_> in a real paralysis loop drawing this building 17:27:22 <supermop_Home_> modeled it in rhino and exported dimetric views to trace, to get the proportions of arches and roof right, and then started tracing it in 4x, then went back to render it instead, then started just drawing it in 1x, then tried to export flat shaded 1x 17:27:36 <supermop_Home_> then went back to drawing it from scratch 17:27:38 <petern> Run with -D "[::1]:3979" might help? 17:27:55 <supermop_Home_> and now i'm like, maybe I should go back to tracingit 17:28:00 <petern> Maybe -D "" clears it, dunno 🙂 17:28:03 <Samu> im using the multiplayer menu from openttd, im not setting any hosts 17:28:36 <Samu> openttd > multiplayer > start server > newgame and it fails 17:29:57 <supermop_Home_> i cant even decide whether i want it to be beige white or pink 17:31:19 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #10332: Fix #10331: Starting new company during load must happen after AI start. https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10332 17:38:14 <Samu> let me restart windows 17:38:16 *** Samu has quit IRC 17:40:03 *** Samu has joined #openttd 17:40:28 <Samu> didn't wokr 17:40:32 <glx[d]> restarting windows won't help if it's in config 17:40:47 <Samu> where in the config, i can't find anyting named : 17:42:00 <glx[d]> server_bind_addresses section in private.cfg 17:42:46 <Samu> ah, i see it 17:42:49 <Samu> [server_bind_addresses] 17:42:49 <Samu> : = 17:42:53 <Samu> ok i remove it? 17:43:20 <glx[d]> yup remove 17:43:25 <Samu> yay, it worked! 17:43:27 <Samu> thanks 17:43:35 <Samu> I would never guess it 17:43:55 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 17:46:31 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 approved pull request #10332: Fix #10331: Starting new company during load must happen after AI start. https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10332#pullrequestreview-1239814677 17:49:10 <Samu> tested, if there are no room for a human company, it goes to first company 17:49:42 <Rubidium> and if there's no room for a human company, it doesn't crash in master 17:51:12 <glx[d]> the issue was just a "minor" change in order of events 17:51:31 <glx[d]> that's a typical AfterLoadGame() issue 17:51:48 <glx[d]> there's so much stuff in it 17:52:42 <Samu> i wonder how AI data is loaded now, must see if it solves many of the issues i've been reporting 17:53:11 <glx[d]> AI data is loaded in memory, pushed on AI stack on AI start 17:53:51 <Samu> theorethically nothing changes, but i still wanna check out 17:53:58 <glx[d]> and AI is not started in the middle of loading, but once loading is finished 17:55:32 <glx[d]> previously the AI was started and directly read data from savegame, but could have issues if trying to access some game state 17:57:59 <glx[d]> and #9745 was open for a full year before being finally merged (and 2 bugs found in it since the merge) 17:58:45 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 commented on pull request #10332: Fix #10331: Starting new company during load must happen after AI start. https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10332#issuecomment-1374892052 17:59:08 <Samu> "Loading failed: there was data for the script to load, but the script does not have a Load() function." 17:59:17 <Samu> so this is a recent message i've been seeing on many ais 17:59:23 <Samu> interesting 18:00:33 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on pull request #10332: Fix #10331: Starting new company during load must happen after AI start. https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10332#issuecomment-1374892407 18:06:32 <glx[d]> Samu: strange, the message is not new 18:07:53 <glx[d]> reading data (or not) from the savegame didn't change, it just put on the stack at a different moment 18:09:15 <Samu> i don't recall ever reading it before 18:09:42 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN merged pull request #10332: Fix #10331: Starting new company during load must happen after AI start. https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10332 18:09:45 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN closed issue #10331: [Crash]: Loading old savegame with only an AI in it https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/10331 18:10:12 <Samu> let me check on 12.2 18:10:51 <Samu> ah, it was there already 18:10:59 <Samu> stupid me 18:11:24 <glx[d]> that means the AI saves data but ignores it on load 18:11:52 <Samu> HeliFerry pops that message 18:14:31 <Samu> maybe I dont test loading heliferry much 18:14:34 <Samu> hehe 18:15:07 <Samu> anyway, the data it failed to load was just {} 18:15:10 <Samu> lol 18:15:42 <glx[d]> yeah empty Save and no Load 18:15:57 <glx[d]> definitely a bug in the AI 18:19:06 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 18:19:06 *** geli has quit IRC 18:26:58 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #10330: Codechange: Rework 'start_date' parameter for AIs as a game setting https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10330 18:28:47 <Samu> found a maybe not a bug 18:29:25 <Samu> (undefined string) in town names https://i.imgur.com/i0XJikd.png 18:29:42 <Samu> i have unloaded japanese town names newgrf 18:30:19 <Samu> it was set to Japanese 18:31:23 *** Flygon has quit IRC 18:31:34 <glx[d]> not a bug 18:32:15 <Samu> starting a new game with (undefined string) created towns in english names 18:35:40 <glx[d]> yes it's the fallback 18:42:30 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/commit/81c5c16477b6a438a2a5f4370971115abdec58d3 18:42:31 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators) 18:43:49 <LordAro> glx[d]: feel like the UI and/or setting should be better at updating 18:51:49 <glx[d]> it's done that way so you can readd the townname newgrf 18:53:40 <Samu> loading AI save data still randomizes values > https://i.imgur.com/wf18pmj.png 18:53:47 <Samu> well, kinda expected 18:55:46 <Samu> i dont think my PR will solve it either, oh boy 18:55:48 <glx[d]> nothing changed in this area 19:02:53 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LC-Zorg commented on issue #10310: [Bug]: Wrecks of vehicles left at level crossings cause an avalanche of further accidents https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/10310 19:16:21 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] frosch123 opened pull request #246: Update: TT-MS rediscovered the source of this magazine article. https://github.com/OpenTTD/website/pull/246 19:21:44 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] 2TallTyler approved pull request #246: Update: TT-MS rediscovered the source of this magazine article. https://github.com/OpenTTD/website/pull/246#pullrequestreview-1239824876 19:38:40 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] michicc merged pull request #246: Update: TT-MS rediscovered the source of this magazine article. https://github.com/OpenTTD/website/pull/246 19:42:25 <andythenorth> oof unscheduled nap 19:42:42 <andythenorth> wow 3 full hours 19:43:02 <petern> That means you can go to sleep at 2am again. 19:43:02 <frosch> fun fact: roman sent a mail 6 hours ago, asking whether we knew where the article was from, after he had checked all issues from 2004. when i checked 2 hours ago, i found the info on his homepage. turned out he had found the issue meanwhile and had already updated the site 🙂 19:52:33 <andythenorth> this one is a fair question, but it doesn't really work that way? https://www.reddit.com/r/openttd/comments/106n2v9/insane_graphics_set/ 19:52:38 <andythenorth> Wentbourne instead? 19:55:24 <frosch> i think "yeti" is the answer 19:55:42 <frosch> animated 32bpp industries, we do not have anything more heavy 19:57:02 <frosch> also, is there a counter how often the "cpu: yes" joke is posted on reddit? 20:01:06 <LordAro> frosch: yes 20:01:42 <Samu> okay, I'm not happy with the way InteractiveRandomRange does the random thing 20:02:12 <Samu> if i restart the game, InteractiveRandomRange comes up with different values 20:02:28 <Samu> i'd prefer it to repeat the values 20:02:41 <Samu> how to solve, hmm 20:03:36 <Brickblock1> I made a looping grf once I wonder if it might be the most demanding 20:03:55 <frosch> LordAro: there is a counter? 😮 20:05:32 <Samu> how to make it deterministic random 20:05:40 <Samu> pseudo-random 20:05:41 <LordAro> as much as there's a counter for people in irc(/discord) asking about reddit posts asking about cpu 20:09:50 <Samu> RandomRange works, but I suspect this one isn't multiplayer safe 20:10:17 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LC-Zorg commented on pull request #10322: Feature: Change speed of calendar progress https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10322#issuecomment-1374917456 20:10:40 <TallTyler> I think the real answer about intensive newgrfs is temporal8’s “real X” sets — see #10192 20:11:05 <TallTyler> JGRPP has commits to fix that but they don’t cherry-pick cleanly and I don’t understand sprite drawing code well enough to sort that out 20:12:24 <frosch> ah, yes, you can also use the old ECS sets. at some point we added "do not use this callback" to the specs 🙂 20:13:23 <Samu> crap! desync :( 20:13:26 <frosch> ah, great... that part was dropped from nml specs :/ 20:18:06 <LordAro> TallTyler: not really "graphically intensive" though 20:18:47 <JGR> TallTyler: It's not the sprite drawing code that's the problem 20:19:52 <JGR> It's mostly animated tiles 20:21:45 <frosch> is it the animation-length callback? 20:21:49 <JGR> Adding/removing animated tiles is O(N) in the total number of animated tiles, so the real X sets trigger O(N^2) behaviour 20:21:50 <frosch> or just many animated tiles? 20:23:21 <JGR> Changing the first to O(log N) would make a lot of the problem go away without having to touch anything complicated at all 20:34:54 *** luk3Z has joined #openttd 20:34:54 <luk3Z> There is a problem on 2 polish servers with some people who abusing the game rules. I think there should be smthg like "Players Ethical Rating" in the game (thumb up/down), so players could be albe to vote who should be auto-banned by the game. 20:38:45 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #10322: Feature: Change speed of calendar progress https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10322#issuecomment-1374922243 20:39:05 <FLHerne> luk3Z: I can foresee that being abused in itself by trolls joining under multiple IPs to ban real players or so 20:39:24 <Pruple> votekick systems invariably get abused 20:39:26 <glx[d]> that's something for admin port 20:39:46 <Pruple> two people (or one person twice) can stop anyone else joining the server 20:39:49 *** gelignite has quit IRC 20:40:32 <FLHerne> in principle it can be done already by an admin-port bot reading the chat (!votekick blah or so) 20:41:07 <nielsm> lots of ways to do it 20:41:21 <FLHerne> you could make it harder to abuse in various ways - minimum quorum, only players with companies over some age/size/activity, etc 20:42:11 <FLHerne> but getting those parameters correct to prevent false-positives while minimising false-negatives would take some experimentation 20:42:19 <luk3Z> FLHerne: It could be a some kind of protection for players ie. long time in game or wealth etc. 20:43:01 <nielsm> luk3Z: the point is, the game as it exists today already has mechanisms to allow server owners to set that kind of thing up 20:44:45 <nielsm> and the only surefire protection against griefing is having human moderators available to go in and resolve issues 20:45:06 <luk3Z> nielsm: I heard of activity but I have to ask some people for teh rest 😄 20:45:06 <luk3Z> I make my own server someday, so that's why I care 😄 20:45:50 <nielsm> you could even make your server so it's forced-pause during hours where there are no moderators available (that also requires using admin port) 20:46:21 <nielsm> so e.g. a poland-based server might only be available during 10-24 local time in poland or similar 20:46:52 <luk3Z> nielsm: Ok thank you for fast answers. See you later. 20:48:14 <nielsm> what might get added to the game would be more ways for players to have a constant identity instead of everyone being effectively-anonymous, so you can have more actual trust 21:16:05 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 21:21:02 <Samu> sometimes i wish i had 2 monitors 21:21:49 <Samu> debugging server + client 21:28:08 *** nielsm has quit IRC 21:28:55 <Samu> It's synced now! with RandomRange 21:33:20 *** godbed is now known as debdog 21:38:11 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #10330: Codechange: Rework 'start_date' parameter for AIs as a game setting https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10330 21:40:16 <Samu> now both server and client do --_next_competitor_start while still maintaining the server the only one that can start AIs 21:40:30 <Samu> sync achieved! 21:43:11 *** keikoz has quit IRC 21:46:04 <Samu> wow regression failed :) 21:46:20 <Samu> because.-. i touched Random 21:46:34 <glx[d]> if you add/remove random calls that's expected 21:52:31 <Samu> the idea of going back to InteractiveRandomRange displeases me :( 21:55:36 <petern> You want a random start but you don't want it too random? 21:57:56 *** debdog has quit IRC 21:58:10 *** debdog has joined #openttd 21:59:24 <Samu> how did it work in the first place 21:59:45 <glx[d]> not very well 21:59:47 <Samu> i could type restart in the console and it would make ais build the same way 21:59:57 <Samu> even with random start datews 22:02:58 <glx[d]> it was using AddRandomDeviation() for the AI config, including start_date, and that uses InteractiveRandomRange() so doesn't affect game Random(à 22:04:27 <glx[d]> but handling of start_date itself was hacky 22:10:08 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #10330: Codechange: Rework 'start_date' parameter for AIs as a game setting https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10330 22:13:48 <andythenorth> FLHerne: blockchain, proof of work voting 22:13:58 <andythenorth> "finally a legitimate use for blockchain" 22:21:04 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LC-Zorg commented on pull request #10322: Feature: Change speed of calendar progress https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10322#issuecomment-1374942512 22:24:14 <andythenorth> Pruple: how's your 91 / DVT variant thing working out? 🙂 Did you see the Chinook image I posted? 22:24:45 <andythenorth> can't work out why I think it's weird to have different combinations of units, seems like it would be totally logical 22:24:49 <petern> reldred: Do I need to investigate prometheus and grafana? 22:26:52 <reldred> I use influxdb instead but yes 22:26:55 <reldred> Am a fan 22:27:23 <reldred> I do all my data collection/mangling with powershell, then into either mssql or influxdb, then render in grafana 22:27:27 <Pruple> andythenorth: working out fine, for double-ended trainsets. using it to just double locos with articulation seems a bit unnecessary? no difference between building a double variant and building two singles. 22:33:36 <andythenorth> autoreplace 22:33:54 <andythenorth> the doubles can replace tender steam engines without having to manually fix the consist 22:34:16 <andythenorth> not sure that escalates to 'all singles need a double also' 22:40:11 <EmperorJake> Would be redundant with template replacement, but the current JGR implementation is quite janky 22:41:29 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 22:43:18 <andythenorth> agreed 22:43:32 <andythenorth> although Chinook would probably still be a double, seems to be iconic 😛 22:43:59 <andythenorth> I'm kinda more interested in how it would work with NARS Horse and f-units 22:44:17 <andythenorth> do they come in different models with different numbers of units, to replace different size steam engines 22:44:29 <andythenorth> or does each model have variants with 1, 2, 3, 4 units 22:44:33 <andythenorth> and cabs / not cabs 😛 22:44:58 <andythenorth> Horse is inconsistent, in that it provides articulated diesels, but railcars have to be built one-by-one 22:46:27 <Fairy> Im gonna do length funkiness with variants too, probably. Thinking of adding both free-length and fixed-length MUs using them so you can either be like "I want this one exactly this long" or "I'll grab a four-length one in one go" 22:47:40 <andythenorth> maybe nested variants? 🙂 22:47:50 <Fairy> Yes, already gonna do those 22:47:52 <andythenorth> 'singles' and 'multiples' 22:48:24 <Fairy> I'm gonna give nested in nested a try, push variants to their limit to completely eliminate livery refits from my set 22:49:22 <Fairy> I know it's possible, we'll just have to find out how it's like actually using it once I'm done 22:49:43 <andythenorth> has to be tried 22:49:47 <Fairy> But I'll be having vehicles > variants > liveries > livery colorings as the layers 22:49:54 <andythenorth> I push lots of things to limit in Horse, then delete them 😛 22:50:38 <Fairy> Yeah, it's something that needs to be tried to see if it's any good, and given what I'm working on, I feel like my UKRS2 rework is perfectly positioned to be the set that tries a lot of things with liveries and variants 22:51:01 *** supermop_Home_ has quit IRC 22:52:47 <Fairy> Also variants makes "proper" DBSOs feasible without too wonky code if you're fine with having a lot of variants. Just code them as a multiple unit with different locomotives as the variants 22:53:59 <Fairy> I'm really enthusiastic about all the possibilities that Variants provide, honestly 22:54:14 <andythenorth> 💯 22:54:35 <andythenorth> they're so easy to create as well 22:54:38 <andythenorth> just one prop 22:55:34 <Fairy> Yeah 22:55:56 <Fairy> Of course it can get tedious if you make a lot of variants but that part's gonna be automated 22:56:32 <Fairy> It's just going to boil down to manually fixing the occasional quirky thing that's really specific to like, one or two vehicles 22:57:19 <reldred> andythenorth: I think from memory it was just A and B units and sometimes they'd do ABB sometimes AA sometimes ABAB sometimes ABBA, it really seems to just be whatever the railyard had lying around at any given time 22:57:43 <andythenorth> there's probably a photo of every possible combo 22:57:54 <Fairy> "sounds like a case for random locomotive setup" 22:58:02 <andythenorth> might be 22:58:12 <reldred> and with steam they'd sometimes just lash up an extra loco to get over a mountain range and then pull it off after they got over. 22:58:15 <andythenorth> hmm 22:58:27 <andythenorth> UK Horse: "buy a random type 3 engine" 22:58:51 <andythenorth> I think I'd really like the JGRPP split engine / wagon UI, but with one extra pain 22:58:51 <reldred> so the big thing with the early diesels was to be able to replicate that, adding and subtracting units as necessary to get over obstacles 22:58:58 <andythenorth> where the grf can define list of randomised purchases 22:59:09 <andythenorth> oh fuck, I probably played too much tanks with loot boxes eh 22:59:16 <andythenorth> I just realised where I got the design pattern from 😛 22:59:18 <Fairy> When are we getting the Train Whack button, where you buy and get a completely randomized consist 22:59:30 <andythenorth> when someone implements 23:00:21 <andythenorth> 'fill this train out to 5 tiles, with minimum of 4 hp / t, and wagons that carry carbon steel' 23:00:38 <andythenorth> result: 4.5 tiles of gronk, and one steel wagon 23:00:55 <Fairy> Nah, that's too useful 23:01:06 <Fairy> Just completely random. No choice in the matter 23:01:12 <Fairy> You buy it and you make do 23:05:48 *** Samu has quit IRC 23:14:45 <andythenorth> lol such GS FIRS ideas 23:33:43 <EmperorJake> andythenorth: I seem to remember an AI that built trains like this, except it was with the 2cc trainset 23:36:03 <FLHerne> happened with the DBSetXL DVT addon too 23:39:25 <Pruple> because the default trains don't have wagon speed limits, a lot of AIs overestimate how much power is appropriate for newgrf freight trains 🙂 2023-01-09T2023-01-09T19:22:25 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on issue #10325: [Bug]: macOS build fails due to [problems I don't understand] format.h https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/10325