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Log for #openttd on 30th January 2023:
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10:33:17  *** nielsm has joined #openttd
10:49:20  <dihedral> greetings
10:50:17  *** Samu has joined #openttd
10:55:54  <andythenorth[d]> o/
11:01:31  <FLHerne> \o
11:16:02  <Samu> prospecting water industries on clearable watered objects should fail? yes or no?
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11:48:59  <petern> Does "clearable" just mean "not like the default transmitter"?
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11:51:17  <JGR> It means OBJECT_FLAG_AUTOREMOVE, mostly
11:55:39  <petern> OBJECT_FLAG_AUTOREMOVE
11:55:39  <petern> Object get automatically removed (like "owned land").
11:55:40  <petern> Okay
11:55:44  <petern> So correct, it should fail.
12:06:56  <Samu> ok
12:07:06  <Samu> also thought so
12:07:52  <Samu> but prospecting is as OWNER_TOWN
12:11:32  <Samu> im so bad at describing my code :(
12:14:14  <petern> Objects have an owner, so I think the autoremove flag should only mean that it will autoremove for the owner.
12:17:21  <Samu> OWNER_TOWN can't remove objects
12:17:48  <Samu> and I am trying to decide wether they should, and i think they shouldn't
12:18:26  <Samu> the prospecting as OWNER_TOWN dilema
12:23:55  <glx[d]> Industries are never company owned, so they should not affect company owned stuff
12:24:54  <FLHerne> Samu: Probably the most common of company-owned land is to block town expansion
12:25:21  <FLHerne> OBJECT_FLAG_AUTOREMOVE is equivalent to that so should also do so
12:25:35  <FLHerne> *most common use
12:46:47  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/team] glx22 commented on issue #388: [cs_CZ] Translator access request https://github.com/OpenTTD/team/issues/388
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12:55:04  <andythenorth[d]> glx[d]: 'currently'
12:55:08  <andythenorth[d]> I have ideas 😛
13:22:25  <dihedral> are there any linux sysadmins in here by any chance?
13:24:20  <petern> Not that will admit to it.
13:24:38  <FLHerne> definitely not
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13:40:54  <Samu> oh snap, there's also OWNER_DEITY
13:41:17  <Samu> prospects as OWNER_TOWN, but is founded by OWNER_DEITY
13:45:10  <Samu> if an industry if prospected and it happens to end up on a canal from some company, should the OWNER_DEITY bypass the ownership test?
13:45:57  <Samu> in other words, should a GS be able to prospect industries on canals owned by some company?
13:46:13  <Samu> think oil rig
13:46:26  <Samu> because currently, it can't
13:46:55  <Samu> even if the canal is OWNER_NONE, since it's not equal to OWNER_DEITY, will also fail on canals with no owners
13:47:18  <Samu> ah, no
13:47:30  <Samu> wait, it actually doesn't check them
13:47:41  <Samu> it can build on top of OWNER_NONE
13:49:05  <Samu> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/src/water_cmd.cpp#L543-L547
13:49:37  <Samu> yeah, it bypasses CheckOwnership
14:00:35  <FLHerne> it shouldn't, IMO
14:00:59  <FLHerne> at least not deliberately
14:01:35  <FLHerne> *at least it shouldn't by random prospecting; deliberately choosing to build there might be acceptable
14:07:03  <Samu> alright, think i got this under control
14:08:23  <Samu> https://gist.github.com/SamuXarick/fc4c3131512f4913a385bff3b6ec974c
14:10:35  <Samu> OWNER_DEITY check right at the line 1
14:15:48  <Samu> how to comment
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14:23:41  <Samu> im renaming is_water to is_canal
14:24:00  <Samu> and even then, it should be a bit more specific
14:24:26  <Samu> is_canal_without_an_object_on_it
14:24:30  <Samu> but that's too large
14:54:43  <petern> Industries shouldn't be built on canals.
14:54:56  <petern> At all.
14:56:41  <andythenorth[d]> my floating water wheel disagrees
14:56:49  <andythenorth[d]> also my narrow-boat based grow op
14:58:40  <andythenorth[d]> oh of course, every joke has a a RL basis on the internet https://www.thctalk.com/cannabis-forum/showthread.php?116449-canal-boat
15:16:59  <Samu> https://gist.github.com/SamuXarick/fc4c3131512f4913a385bff3b6ec974c#file-industry_cmd-cpp-L4-L9
15:17:16  <Samu> this is why it's complicated
15:26:12  <andythenorth[d]> Samu, not wanting to gatekeep you, but have you wandered into a rabbit hole again? 🙂
15:26:20  <andythenorth[d]> do we need to prospect industry on canal?
15:27:40  <Samu> yes ;(
15:29:17  <andythenorth[d]> ok
15:38:45  <Rubidium> dihedral: depends on the scale of linux sysadmin you're after ;)
15:44:53  <FLHerne> Samu: why?
15:47:09  <FLHerne> andythenorth[d]: lol
15:47:27  <FLHerne> to be fair, there's clearly a market canalside in the evenings
15:47:59  <FLHerne> people have offered me free weed for a ride on the boat before
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15:54:49  <supermop_toil> hi
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16:42:37  <andythenorth[d]> Samu, also, why?
16:42:48  <andythenorth[d]> is it because the spec permits creating industries with a water tile?
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17:32:29  <petern> Hmm, time for flying.
17:41:45  <andythenorth[d]> also time for curry soon
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17:53:34  <scrubbles> tim curry
17:57:22  <andythenorth[d]> tim apple
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18:22:36  <Samu> new revision https://gist.github.com/SamuXarick/fc4c3131512f4913a385bff3b6ec974c
18:22:47  <Samu> That comment is still bad :(
18:23:04  <Samu> my weak spot, explaining my code
18:26:13  <LordAro> Samu: don't explain what, explain why
18:26:30  <LordAro> if it's self-evident, it doesn't need a comment
18:27:51  <LordAro> tbh i'd say that comment is more or less fine
18:27:54  <LordAro> doesn't need the first line
18:28:16  <Samu> it's not self evident at all. I am working on canal ownership which makes canals have owners
18:28:45  <Samu> and then various sorts of infrastructure can build over it, while retaining the ownership of the canal
18:29:06  <Samu> the industry case is just the most difficult part
18:29:19  <Samu> it's only related to water industries
18:30:27  <Samu> when funding an industry, i need to check who owns the canal, so i can't just do clear checks as OWNER_TOWN or OWNER_NONE or so, i need to switch temporarily to the company that issued industry construction
18:31:28  <Samu> if the permission is there, an opponent may build an industry on my canal
18:31:29  <glx[d]> why ? The company pays, but won't be the industry owner, so construction should not happen on company owned land
18:37:15  <Samu> on master, if you fund an oil rig on your canals, it builds, it is permited
18:37:51  <Samu> but not on your opponents canals
18:38:33  <Samu> if you prospect, however... no permission
18:38:59  <Samu> because in master, _current_company is OWNER_TOWN for prospecting
18:40:08  <Samu> same as random generation, random generation is OWNER_NONE
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18:40:58  <Samu> I am trying to challenge those rules with a game setting (build on competitor canal)
18:45:38  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/commit/43657cf65d63c4cfa55dfec85a59c55cc620a613
18:45:39  <DorpsGek>   - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
18:45:42  <FLHerne> (a) OTTD has too many settings
18:45:50  <glx[d]> but prospection is different, as it may fail for many reasons, including bad luck
18:46:09  <FLHerne> (b) given the griefing potential, why would building on competitors' canals ever be a good idea
18:46:52  <glx[d]> so different behaviour for funding or prospecting is not an issue
18:46:55  <FLHerne> I'm not sure that allowing prospecting on canals is a good idea either
18:47:33  <FLHerne> most canals are built for ships, so an industry will be in the way
18:47:53  <FLHerne> if I specifically choose a location on a canal and it's in the way, fine, that's my own fault
18:48:35  <FLHerne> but an industry randomly placed on a canal, as most players build them, is almost guaranteed to block ships
18:49:31  <FLHerne> If I prospect for a water industry, I /don't want/ it to be placed in the middle of one of my canals
18:49:50  <FLHerne> and I'm pretty sure that goes for like 9/10 players
18:50:20  <andythenorth[d]> infra should be common or owned
18:50:24  <andythenorth[d]> if it's owned, it's owned
18:50:29  <andythenorth[d]> the whole tile needs owned
18:50:48  <andythenorth[d]> can't build on otherwise owned tiles
18:51:18  <FLHerne> andythenorth[d]: I think this is about player prospecting for industries
18:51:45  <FLHerne> prospecting an industry on their own canal tile doesn't seem against that in principle
18:52:01  <FLHerne> it just makes no sense from a "does anyone actually intend that to happen" PoV
18:52:27  <andythenorth[d]> stuff and things
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18:57:44  <Samu> I'll see what I can do, you opened my eye
18:57:49  <Samu> griefing is bad
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19:25:02  <FLHerne> As is common for your patches, I still don't really understand what's wrong with the status quo :p
19:25:59  <FLHerne> currently: direct placement works on same player's canals, fails on competitors' canals, prospecting ignores both?
19:26:21  <FLHerne> is this still partly about GS?
19:26:54  <FLHerne> I think prospecting for GS should ignore all players' canals
19:35:40  <andythenorth[d]> ha ha I had missed this https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/10310
19:35:56  <andythenorth[d]> radical proposal: 'bridges'
19:36:18  <peter1138>   ikr
19:36:52  <andythenorth[d]> maybe I am wrong
19:37:05  <andythenorth[d]> I am currently on a posting-ban in another unrelated forum, so maybe it's me that's wrong
19:40:26  <andythenorth[d]> about everything 🙂
19:49:00  <andythenorth[d]> interesting https://www.reddit.com/r/openttd/comments/10op9tg/are_there_any_mods/
19:49:15  <andythenorth[d]> I did a search to see https://www.google.com/search?q=openttd+mods&oq=openttd+mods
19:49:31  <andythenorth[d]> many of the top results aren't very useful
19:52:34  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] vmicho opened issue #10434: [Bug]: some level crossings still barred https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/10

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