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00:13:59 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 00:28:12 *** Flygon has quit IRC 00:29:29 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 00:44:53 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 01:27:39 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 opened pull request #11113: Fix 021c45c: [CMake] detection and use of nlohmann-json for emscripten https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/11113 01:28:34 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #11113: Fix 021c45c: [CMake] detection and use of nlohmann-json for emscripten https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/11113 01:39:04 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 02:23:24 *** D-HUND has joined #openttd 02:23:27 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 02:26:45 *** debdog has quit IRC 02:35:43 *** D-HUND is now known as debdog 02:55:27 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 03:38:31 *** Flygon has quit IRC 04:16:32 *** tokai has joined #openttd 04:16:32 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 04:23:12 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 05:55:46 <peter1138> <https://fosstodon.org/@trigonella@social.seattle.wa.us/110662332345703598> Hmmm 06:34:08 *** keikoz has quit IRC 06:35:15 <andythenorth> yes 06:37:13 <pickpacket> Why is mastodon mobile gui so shit? I can’t find a way to search for a user 06:42:52 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain approved pull request #11113: Fix 021c45c: [CMake] detection and use of nlohmann-json for emscripten https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/11113#pullrequestreview-1515861842 06:53:35 <kamnet> peter1138: Seems like a reasonable request to add. 06:55:36 <pickpacket> The question is how to add it. If it’s a setting then it’s no harder to find or change than any other setting 06:56:42 <pickpacket> no harder than entering multiplayer in the first place 06:59:59 <LordAro> settings aren't necessarily displayed ingame 07:00:34 <LordAro> that said i'm not sure this is our problem to fix 07:00:57 <LordAro> firewall, or just straight disconnecting the computer from the internet seem like more general solutions 07:01:14 <kamnet> True - but then you can't download new content or updates. 07:01:28 <truebrain> DNS blacklist `coordinator.openttd.org` and done 😛 07:01:42 <LordAro> responsible adults can do that as needed 07:04:05 <kamnet> truebrain: Ah, this does seem like the better idea. Besides, if the child has access to the game, the have access to the settings and config file and can likely figure out how to re-enable anything that's disabled from within the game. 07:04:27 <truebrain> if not now, in a year or so they would 🙂 07:07:08 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain opened pull request #401: Change: [Dependabot] create a monthly PR to bump all dependencies https://github.com/OpenTTD/bananas-api/pull/401 07:07:15 <truebrain> there will be many of those PRs today 😛 07:07:41 <Rubidium_> just install Windows 98 on the computer, then you cannot use a recent OpenTTD and as such there's essentially no server to connect to. And it's quite hard to circumvent without completely reinstalling the OS :D 07:08:14 <truebrain> give it a year extra 😉 07:08:22 <peter1138> truebrain: Nice, I have suggested this. 07:08:45 <truebrain> I WAS HELPFUL TODAY \o/ 07:08:47 <truebrain> nap time? 07:09:32 <peter1138> Day complete, go back to bed. 07:14:16 <andythenorth> 💤 07:15:37 <peter1138> > The core of the earth is an estimated 2.5 years younger than the crust, not because it arrived later, but because time runs slower there 07:15:38 <peter1138> Well 07:15:54 <peter1138> I can live slightly longer by moving to the centre of the earth... 07:25:20 <peter1138> Is it lunch time yet? 07:25:40 <peter1138> Time would need to be going faster for that. Conflicts of interest. 07:29:15 <truebrain> time is an illusion anyway 07:29:21 <truebrain> (I played too much Path of Exile) 07:32:56 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain merged pull request #401: Change: [Dependabot] create a monthly PR to bump all dependencies https://github.com/OpenTTD/bananas-api/pull/401 07:34:34 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 07:35:06 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/bananas-server] TrueBrain opened pull request #350: Change: [Dependabot] create a monthly PR to bump all dependencies https://github.com/OpenTTD/bananas-server/pull/350 07:36:01 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-web] TrueBrain opened pull request #219: Change: [Dependabot] create a monthly PR to bump all dependencies https://github.com/OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-web/pull/219 07:36:31 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-cli] TrueBrain opened pull request #73: Change: [Dependabot] create a monthly PR to bump all dependencies https://github.com/OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-cli/pull/73 07:36:59 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/master-server] TrueBrain opened pull request #283: Change: [Dependabot] create a monthly PR to bump all dependencies https://github.com/OpenTTD/master-server/pull/283 07:37:28 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/master-server-web] TrueBrain opened pull request #137: Change: [Dependabot] create a monthly PR to bump all dependencies https://github.com/OpenTTD/master-server-web/pull/137 07:37:52 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/game-coordinator] TrueBrain opened pull request #197: Change: [Dependabot] create a monthly PR to bump all dependencies https://github.com/OpenTTD/game-coordinator/pull/197 07:38:16 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/DorpsGek] TrueBrain opened pull request #184: Change: [Dependabot] create a monthly PR to bump all dependencies https://github.com/OpenTTD/DorpsGek/pull/184 07:38:39 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/eints] TrueBrain opened pull request #149: Change: [Dependabot] create a monthly PR to bump all dependencies https://github.com/OpenTTD/eints/pull/149 07:39:38 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/dibridge] TrueBrain opened pull request #206: Change: [Dependabot] create a monthly PR to bump all dependencies https://github.com/OpenTTD/dibridge/pull/206 07:40:16 <truebrain> right .. minus a few repos that miss a dependabot configuration file at all, this should be it .. and if you think this is spammy, just be happy you don't see all the PRs dependabot is/was making 😛 07:44:39 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/bananas-server] TrueBrain merged pull request #350: Change: [Dependabot] create a monthly PR to bump all dependencies https://github.com/OpenTTD/bananas-server/pull/350 07:45:09 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-cli] TrueBrain merged pull request #73: Change: [Dependabot] create a monthly PR to bump all dependencies https://github.com/OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-cli/pull/73 07:45:37 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/master-server] TrueBrain merged pull request #283: Change: [Dependabot] create a monthly PR to bump all dependencies https://github.com/OpenTTD/master-server/pull/283 07:45:56 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/master-server-web] TrueBrain merged pull request #137: Change: [Dependabot] create a monthly PR to bump all dependencies https://github.com/OpenTTD/master-server-web/pull/137 07:46:23 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-web] TrueBrain merged pull request #219: Change: [Dependabot] create a monthly PR to bump all dependencies https://github.com/OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-web/pull/219 07:46:46 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/game-coordinator] TrueBrain merged pull request #197: Change: [Dependabot] create a monthly PR to bump all dependencies https://github.com/OpenTTD/game-coordinator/pull/197 07:47:02 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/eints] TrueBrain merged pull request #149: Change: [Dependabot] create a monthly PR to bump all dependencies https://github.com/OpenTTD/eints/pull/149 07:47:21 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/dibridge] TrueBrain merged pull request #206: Change: [Dependabot] create a monthly PR to bump all dependencies https://github.com/OpenTTD/dibridge/pull/206 07:47:54 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/DorpsGek] TrueBrain merged pull request #184: Change: [Dependabot] create a monthly PR to bump all dependencies https://github.com/OpenTTD/DorpsGek/pull/184 07:48:58 <truebrain> I think that is all? 🙂 07:49:11 <truebrain> so now talk away _zephyris 😛 07:49:59 <_zephyris> Hah! Thanks! 07:50:37 <_zephyris> I was wondering about the best way to implement a base set with optional ez or 32bpp sprites... 07:51:36 <_zephyris> Currently I preprocess to (optionally) uncomment the alternative sprites 07:53:22 <_zephyris> But making 4 versions (8bpp, 8bpp EZ, 32bpp, 32bpp EZ) isn't the most user friendly! 07:56:17 <Rubidium_> the grfcodec repository has a grfstrip which could strip out certain color depths and zoom levels from a GRF. So build once, strip 3 or 4 times 08:01:19 <_zephyris> I'd like to separately handle GUI sprites from viewport/map sprites... 08:01:26 <locosage> I don't think there is much point in doing 8bpp other than filesize but then you need separate file anyway 08:07:12 <_zephyris> It's all a user preference thing - 8bpp does look very different to 32bpp, if a player wants the retro feel. 08:11:36 *** DorpsGek has quit IRC 08:11:53 *** DorpsGek has joined #openttd 08:11:53 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o DorpsGek 08:12:25 <locosage> well, there is 8bpp blitter 08:12:39 <locosage> but ultimately it's a question of baseset parameters I guess 08:12:45 <locosage> that aren't currently supported 08:13:24 <locosage> rn solution is just to make it a newgrf like BRIX 08:13:27 <locosage> not a baseset 08:16:01 <locosage> also, making ez optional probably duplicates non-ez sprites... 08:16:12 <locosage> at least, I don't see how it can be done without duplication 08:21:14 <ahyangyi> Can we somehow pack the four styles in the same newGRF and rely on global settings. If the user enables 32bpp then use 32bpp, ditto for ez 08:21:45 <ahyangyi> there's the very weird corner case that the user wants 8bpp baseset + 32bpp vehicles, but I can't understand why 08:23:17 <_zephyris> ahyangyi: That's what I was wondering... Just what openttd needs though - more settings! 08:24:50 <_zephyris> locosage: Yeah, that's what I think too. Because newgrf switches happen on sprites not sprite alternates... 08:25:21 <truebrain> also take in mind diskspace; not everyone enjoys having a 300+ MiB baseset, while they only wants 8bpp graphics 🙂 08:26:00 <_zephyris> Very true. The 8bpp 1x is 10mb, 32bpp 4x is 150mb so far. 08:26:25 <truebrain> so having at least two packages seems reasonable .. 8bpp no-EZ, and the "full", or something 🙂 08:27:53 <truebrain> and if you brand that a bit nice, the user won't even notice in that sense .. something like `OpenGFX2 (Classic look)` and `OpenGFX2 (Modern look)`, or what-ever terms floots your boot 🙂 08:27:58 <truebrain> boot? boat! 08:28:21 <truebrain> floots? Well, at least I was consistent with missing the a .. floats! ffs, spelling is hard 😛 08:28:41 <locosage> and not for basesets but for newgrfs in general ideally there would be a way to choose how much to download 08:28:51 <locosage> like if server requires yeti but you don't want 200mb 08:29:30 <ahyangyi> _zephyris: I mean, OpenTTD already has those settings 08:29:54 <ahyangyi> enforce 8bpp and force-disable EZ 08:30:00 <ahyangyi> or I think we have? 08:30:12 <truebrain> you can avoid EZ sprites being used, yes 08:30:18 <truebrain> but forcing 8bpp is a bit of a different story 🙂 08:30:24 <ahyangyi> Alright 08:30:36 <locosage> it kinda has but should be a setting per newgrf, not global imo 08:30:50 <_zephyris> Sort of... Max zoom for map/viewport forces 1x zoom sprites, but also stops extra zoom in, right? 08:30:57 <truebrain> yup 08:31:00 <truebrain> all or nothing baby 08:31:03 <ahyangyi> kinda, but since we don't have settings for basesets 08:31:50 <truebrain> but so yeah, personally I wouldn't do 4, but just 2. As in my mind, if you like EZ, you also kinda want 32bpp .. 8bpp EZ is a bit odd, in that sense 08:32:09 <truebrain> and if you like EZ, you most likely want 32bpp too, as you clearly like graphics 😛 08:32:13 <ahyangyi> Timberwolf is 8bpp EZ 😛 08:32:17 <ahyangyi> But his "EZ" is 2x 08:32:19 <ahyangyi> so 08:33:06 <truebrain> well, for me it comes from: 8bpp is basically just a color palette picked. As we render on all platforms shit as 32bpp anyway, this is more about a style we push forward. With 8bpp, the look and feel of most sets are very much the same 08:33:16 <truebrain> with 32bpp you break that open and you can just make any style you like 08:33:30 <truebrain> hence why I always consider 8bpp vs 32bpp "looks" 08:33:43 <truebrain> I might be completely off, with that statement btw, but that is how it works in my head 😄 08:34:01 <_zephyris> truebrain: Yeah. Opengfx2 32bpp is very much an 8bpp 'look' 08:34:22 <_zephyris> Because that's what floots my boot 😉 08:35:09 <truebrain> 😄 😄 I see what you did there! 08:36:09 <_zephyris> Thanks for the feedback everyone! Looks like an 8bpp 1x 'classic' and 32bpp 4x 'modern' is the way to go, at least for now. 09:11:34 <Timberwolf> fwiw I do 8bpp for filesize reasons, because Trains has an utterly ludicrous number of sprites (all those intermediate turn angles, hill climbing/descending and the duplicates to avoid clipping bridges/tunnels on straight track) it would have a silly file size if I provided 32bpp versions. 09:12:39 <Timberwolf> Also the workflow starts with a voxel object in the TTD palette, and even with lighting and shadowing never deviates particularly far from that, so there's not a huge visual benefit other than some of the more restricted colour ramps being very awkward to dither with. 09:22:53 *** keikoz has joined #openttd 09:30:28 <peter1138> 2x 8bpp is a nice stylistic compromise. 09:30:56 <peter1138> More detail but not trying too hard to be photorealistic. 09:49:12 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 merged pull request #11113: Fix 021c45c: [CMake] detection and use of nlohmann-json for emscripten https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/11113 10:10:03 *** m3henry has joined #openttd 10:19:47 <peter1138> Urgh, C# bugging me that you can't have a class member name be the same as the class name. 10:23:20 <_glx_> Would be the constructor 10:23:20 <Rubidium_> is that case sensitive of not? As I always wonder who thought "everything should start with an uppercase character" was a good idea to quickly see what you're dealing with 10:24:38 <peter1138> Yeah, it's obvious, and probably not allowed in C++ either. 10:25:53 <m3henry> Is it possible to have an override file for english (or other) translations without recompiling? 10:26:16 <_glx_> No 10:29:54 <m3henry> Is there appetite for a proper fix to https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/8601 ? 10:32:26 <peter1138> It was fixed by #8659 10:33:26 <peter1138> <https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/8659> for linkyness 10:34:02 <m3henry> I mean to actually provide *man *woman as titles. *person Just strikes me as silly. 10:35:07 <peter1138> Oh. I would say no. -person is correct. 10:37:11 <m3henry> I guess I'm really asking if I put in the work to implement it, would it be considered? 10:38:11 <m3henry> Hmm, not the response I was hoping for 10:39:32 <m3henry> Just seems wierd, like calling a policeman a policeperson. 10:41:13 <Rubidium_> or maybe a police officer? 10:42:14 <m3henry> Indeed, but still not -person 10:43:14 <truebrain> we have policepersons in OpenTTD? What are they doing there? 😄 10:43:46 <Rubidium_> though maybe there is a better synonym for the chair/board/... whatever 10:44:24 <m3henry> Atleast for chairman, an alternative could be "managing director" 10:49:02 <Rubidium_> anyway, English is not my native tongue and they describe some levels of management within a company, so... I can't really help with finding a better name/label 10:49:49 <_zephyris> Meh. Most dictionaries define a chairman as a _person_ who presides over whatever. https://www.oed.com/view/Entry/30219?rskey=6REozC&result=1&isAdvanced=false#eid It's not incorrect, but could be more inclusive. 10:51:17 <_zephyris> On a totally different subject, how do OpenTTD and NML determine grf MD5? 10:52:45 <m3henry> For Businessman, the alternative could be merchant? 10:52:55 <_zephyris> Unless I'm doing something really dumb, I'm getting the same MD5 from `nmlc --md5` for two different `.nml` inputs. And, I get a different MD5 from `md5sum`... 10:54:11 <Rubidium_> I reckon the md5 sum ignores the extra depths and zoom levels over the base graphics 10:56:09 <Rubidium_> though OpenTTD seems to just get the MD5 checksum of the whole file 10:56:26 <_zephyris> Yeah, that makes sense. The only difference in the nmls is whether to use the extra zoom/32bpp alternates 10:57:46 <_zephyris> Rubidium_: It uses something other than a simple file md5, openttd gives corrupt file warnings if I use md5sum rather than nmlc md5 in the baseset definition. 10:58:46 <truebrain> md5sum is nothing what it looks like, sadly .. bit of a misnomer 😛 10:58:53 <truebrain> it uses md5, but not in a classical way 10:58:53 <Rubidium_> ah, if GRF container format v2, then it's doing the MD5 checksum on the "data" section 10:58:56 <_glx_> Depends on grf container, for v2 I think only actions are used 10:59:16 <truebrain> for basesets for example it XORs the md5sums of the individual files together 10:59:20 <truebrain> silly things like that 11:02:41 <truebrain> hmmm .. it is even possible that uploading a baseset to BaNaNaS that consists of multiple files renders the wrong md5sum .. I shouldn't look at this code, it scares me 😄 11:03:13 <truebrain> ah, no, I am wrong, it takes the md5sum of the catalog .. with there in the md5sums of all individual files .. lolz 11:03:18 <truebrain> scripts are XOR'd .. 11:04:46 <peter1138> Basesets are not like NewGRFs, it doesn't matter if the MD5 hashes don't match the GRFs in another baseset. 11:04:55 <truebrain> wasn't the idea with v2 that it would be possible to optional download 32bpp, if a GRF had both 8bpp and 32bpp, or something? 🙂 11:05:24 <peter1138> For NewGRF you can have different files with the same MD5 hash, just different graphics. 11:05:32 <peter1138> But that isn't necessary for basesets. 11:07:47 <_zephyris> It is colliding somehow, can't quite work it out. 11:08:28 <_zephyris> I've got two base sets, different file names for each grf but the same md5 for each grf, and only one appears in the baseset options list. 11:09:43 <m3henry> Another option would be to use vice-president? As the next higher rank is president 11:12:21 <Eddi|zuHause> truebrain: i don't think there's a sane use case for splitting 8bpp/32bpp. maybe splitting extra zoom... 11:12:32 <truebrain> _zephyris: they both have a different shortname in the catelog file? 11:16:14 <_zephyris> truebrain: Yup. ogfx2_8 and ogfx2_32ez 11:17:27 <truebrain> shouldn't it be 4 chars? Can't remember 11:18:22 <Rubidium_> yyp, only the first four characters are taken 11:20:17 <_zephyris> Really? ogfx and ogfx2 seem to coexist happily 11:21:18 <Rubidium_> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/src/base_media_base.h#L63 11:21:44 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 11:23:52 <_zephyris> OGFX vs ogfx2 😜 11:23:57 <_zephyris> Ok, mystery solved 11:24:30 <Rubidium_> so... ogfx (small graphics) and oGFX (big graphics) :D 11:25:04 <Rubidium_> and lowercase is later than uppercase in the ASCII table... so ogfx > OGFX :D 11:28:04 *** m3henry_ has joined #openttd 11:29:07 *** m3henry has quit IRC 11:29:07 *** m3henry_ is now known as m3henry 11:34:35 <_glx_> x/X for ez state 11:34:58 *** keikoz has quit IRC 11:35:04 <_glx_> f/F for full range color 11:36:05 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 11:36:22 <_zephyris> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1126476735060381696/ogfx2_versions.png 11:36:22 <_zephyris> w00p. Thank you! 11:39:36 <_glx_> _zephyris: Nmlc has flags to do that at compile time 11:49:01 *** Kitrana2 has quit IRC 12:02:59 <_zephyris> Yup... I don't use them (at least for now) because I want the option of keeping 2x/4x GUI sprites while stripping out 2x/4x map sprites. May well switch to the new nmlc feature in the future though. 12:09:23 <LordAro> dunno about "classic", it suggests old and out of date. Would probably call ogfx1 "classic" 12:10:01 <LordAro> #bikeshedding 12:20:53 <_zephyris> Fair enough. Something to think about. Is OpenGFX2 even the best name? 12:24:28 <peter1138> Sticking with OpenGFX(2) makes sense, otherwise nothing implies that the current OpenGFX is... out of date. 12:28:22 <ahyangyi> Yep 12:36:35 <LordAro> very much depends on the direction _zephyris wants to go, but why the 1/2 split at all? why not just "overwrite" ogfx1? (with added bonus 32bpp version) 12:37:41 <peter1138> Well, I can imagine some people might want to use the old one for some reason. 12:38:34 <LordAro> yeah, but people are wrong 12:38:55 <LordAro> and all we do is try to restrict people's play styles 12:44:51 <ahyangyi> I suddenly feel very wrong and want to change my rendering setting to support NightGFX 😮 12:44:53 <Rubidium_> since when are you required to update to the newest OpenGFX? 12:46:10 <LordAro> it's quite hard to go downgrade 12:46:14 <LordAro> s/go// 12:47:03 <LordAro> and i imagine most people don't like the outstanding "update available" box in the content download window 12:47:10 <LordAro> i don't, anyway 12:48:03 <Eddi|zuHause> the problem with the 1/2 split is now you got both versions to maintain 12:48:25 <Rubidium_> LordAro: "update available" does not seem to be a concern for many people; basically all team members at work have a pending update for their IDE when I see their IDE 12:48:33 <LordAro> heh 12:48:36 <LordAro> true enough 12:48:59 <LordAro> Eddi|zuHause: i wouldn't say it's a huge burden 12:49:16 <LordAro> (i realise i have completely switched sides in this argument) 12:49:46 <truebrain> At least you realise 😄 most people don't..... 😛 12:50:55 <Eddi|zuHause> sorry, i forgot my role in this, i'm meant to destroy people's playstyle 12:51:44 <Eddi|zuHause> (such a silly argument, if that were true, i would have majorly attacked openttdcoop...) 12:52:46 <peter1138> We're the plague, you're the perpetrator. 12:53:17 <peter1138> Oh that isn't the word that was used. Never mind. 12:56:40 <FLHerne> Eddi|zuHause: people keep downloading aBase and no-one maintains that 12:56:49 <peter1138> <https://beepberry.sqfmi.com/> OpenTTD port? 12:56:59 <Eddi|zuHause> FLHerne: not sure that's a good argument for anything :p 12:57:23 <peter1138> (It's Pi Zero at its core but I imagine 400x240 screen might need work 🙂 12:57:51 <Eddi|zuHause> that's a bit tiny for a game designed for 640x480 12:58:32 <Eddi|zuHause> also, the "buy" link goes to 404 13:03:40 <m3henry> I've been testing OpenTTD on the PineTab2 recently, and I get a solid 60FPS at 4x zoom out, with 87 trains running about. 13:04:34 <peter1138> > The PineTab2 began shipping on June 2, 2023. 13:04:37 <peter1138> Okay.../ 13:04:58 <peter1138> Who imports this thing :/ 13:05:17 <m3henry> I think they import it themselves 13:06:23 <m3henry> Still, I'm impressed with the software renderer working so well without any specificoptimizations for mobile aarch64 13:07:03 <peter1138> 0 hmm 13:07:10 <peter1138> + taxes 13:07:39 <m3henry> I think I paid £170 in total 13:07:41 <Eddi|zuHause> back when TT came out, i got maybe 2fps with 80 trains 13:08:25 *** johnfranklin has joined #openttd 13:08:25 <johnfranklin> 0 for this? Better buy GPD Pocket with a little higher price. 13:09:24 <peter1138> And Eddi still hasn't upgraded their computer. 13:10:03 <johnfranklin> When TT came out, my father was in high school😛 13:10:06 <Eddi|zuHause> using underpowered computers is kind of a theme running through the ages :p 13:10:44 <m3henry> Anyway, it might be a good idea to not have the hardware rendering on by default as the performance is near 10FPS 13:10:54 <peter1138> I don't think John Franklin is old enough to be on Discord. 13:13:00 <johnfranklin> I was born in 2003 13:13:26 <johnfranklin> johnfranklin: Oh sorry, it’s not “a little” 13:14:30 <peter1138> Double the price, a smaller screen, and it's Intel instead of ARM so likely worse battery (although screens are the main draw there these days) 13:15:42 <peter1138> Toshiba Libretto 13:16:04 <m3henry> my record has been roughly 10 hours of battery with light usage and no suspending 13:16:31 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 13:23:42 <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds a little low for "i want to use this for a day and not worry" 13:23:54 *** virtualrandomnumber has joined #openttd 13:24:21 *** virtualrandomnumber has quit IRC 13:24:24 <Eddi|zuHause> remember when phones lasted 2 weeks with one charge? 13:26:23 <m3henry> Most days that I use it, I manage to use about 25% of the total capacity, so it really doesn't bother me 13:28:08 <LordAro> i'm quite interested in the nothing phone 13:28:20 <LordAro> my oneplus5 is getting a bit tired 13:30:17 <m3henry> As is my Galaxy Core Prime xD 13:31:16 <locosage> replacing ogfx1 with ogfx2 makes no sense whatsoever, they're completely different 13:31:24 <locosage> if anything, remove basesets then 13:33:15 <locosage> ogfx2 has as many pixels as abase, same style as original and same name as opengfx 13:33:22 <locosage> perfect replacement for everything xD 13:33:31 <_zephyris> LordAro: As the person who drew huge chunks of OpenGFX, I have to disagree... The way OpenGFX1 looks wasn't entirely deliberate, it was because I wasn't as good at pixeling. 13:34:29 <m3henry> I'm most interested in the 2x sprites 13:36:30 <_zephyris> Eddi|zuHause: I think maintenance overhead to keep OpenGFX1 and 2 running would be very small - huge chunks of the 2 coding use the same structure as 1, and the 8bpp sprites from 2 will (generally) fit well into 1. 13:37:17 <_zephyris> But no strong feelings on exact roadmap. Main aim is to make something useful and put it into the world. 13:40:54 <m3henry> How much does 4x increase the filesize? 13:43:00 <ahyangyi> 16x if we don't take compression into consideration, about 5x (I think) in practice 13:43:31 <ahyangyi> Of course it depends on the drawing/rendering style 13:43:37 <ahyangyi> details are expensive 13:44:41 <m3henry> Is it worth having a stripped down version with only 1x/2x sprites to reduce hosting costs? 13:46:09 <johnfranklin> Eddi|zuHause: When I was very young 13:49:58 <_zephyris> m3henry: Currently, 1x 8bpp is 10mb, 4x 32bpp is 150mb: https://github.com/zephyris/opengfx2/releases/tag/v0.1-beta 13:50:36 <Eddi|zuHause> m3henry: you somehow have to catch the people who just download everything without thinking about it 13:51:30 <m3henry> That's a lot of boxes to tick, does anyone go to the trouble of doing that? 13:52:13 <m3henry> So a 2x version would potentially be ~30MB? 13:53:45 <Eddi|zuHause> each step is probably the same factor, so 8bpp->32bpp(x1)->x2->x4 14:00:40 <_zephyris> locosage: Hah! I missed this message, I'll take this as a massive complement!! 14:15:37 <ahyangyi> I know that a 1x tile is 64 pixels wide and 32 pixels tall. But what is the offset in pixel for each step in altitude difference? 14:15:58 <ahyangyi> I tried to measure that on a screenshot but I got readings fluctuating from 5 to 9 14:16:02 <peter1138> 8 14:16:08 <ahyangyi> Thanks 14:16:15 <peter1138> (But bridges and tunnels are weird) 14:16:34 <peter1138> (Because vehicles tend to be 12-14 pixels) 14:19:26 <Eddi|zuHause> there's some perspective tricks with tunnels 15:01:14 <m3henry> _zephyris: I notice that the power station sparks background is not transparent 15:01:35 <m3henry> Otherwise it looks great 15:01:50 <peter1138> ⮡ doesn't really display well... hmm. 15:02:42 <peter1138> Saying that it works okay in a terminal with fixed-width font, but still eats into the space next to it. 15:11:15 <Eddi|zuHause> it's not adhering to fixed width here either 15:32:23 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 16:17:49 *** keikoz has joined #openttd 16:19:44 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 commented on pull request #11102: Change: Only show platform stopping location in orders when other than default https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/11102#pullrequestreview-1516896503 16:25:48 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #11109: Add: [Emscripten] support for bootstrapping https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/11109 16:32:57 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 16:35:55 *** Smedles has quit IRC 16:36:12 *** Smedles has joined #openttd 16:52:29 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 opened pull request #11114: Fix #11108, e2f583a: missing argument for SCC_CARGO_SHORT formatting https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/11114 16:56:53 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #11109: Add: [Emscripten] support for bootstrapping https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/11109#pullrequestreview-1516957952 16:57:25 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 approved pull request #11114: Fix #11108, e2f583a: missing argument for SCC_CARGO_SHORT formatting https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/11114#pullrequestreview-1516959637 17:01:26 *** argoneus2 has joined #openttd 17:01:26 *** argoneus has quit IRC 17:01:26 *** argoneus2 is now known as argoneus 17:11:01 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 17:16:45 <peter1138> Hmm, okay, using a spare HP DL370 for random things is probably not a great idea... 300W power consumption :p 17:24:18 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 commented on issue #11042: [Bug]: New Oil Wells do not spawn in Temperate https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/11042 17:26:29 <Rubidium_> if random things includes heating the room :D 17:31:17 <_glx_> so weird, my local emscripten build now fails with "/developpement/github/glx22/openttd/src/network/network_survey.cpp:35:10: fatal error: 'nlohmann/json.hpp' file not found" 17:31:32 <_glx_> but it was fine before 17:35:23 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN approved pull request #11114: Fix #11108, e2f583a: missing argument for SCC_CARGO_SHORT formatting https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/11114#pullrequestreview-1517020675 17:35:29 <peter1138> Doubled 😉 17:46:59 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 merged pull request #11114: Fix #11108, e2f583a: missing argument for SCC_CARGO_SHORT formatting https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/11114 17:47:02 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 closed issue #11108: [Bug]: SCC_CARGO_SHORT uses string arguments of wrong size for SCC_DECIMAL in tons/liters case https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/11108 17:49:20 <locosage> So I want a variant group that contains two groups with two elements each, how do I set varint_group parameter for vehicle 3? 17:49:20 <locosage> + A 17:49:21 <locosage> |- B 17:49:21 <locosage> | |- 1 17:49:21 <locosage> | -- 2 ->1 17:49:22 <locosage> ---C 17:49:22 <locosage> |- 3 -> ? 17:49:24 <locosage> -- 4 -> 3 17:49:55 *** belajalilija has joined #openttd 17:49:55 <belajalilija> so the code yesterday not worrking wasnt *entirely* my fault? 17:50:15 <locosage> yep 17:50:19 <belajalilija> xd nice 17:50:24 <locosage> and may not even be entirely mine either xD 17:54:00 <peter1138> Yay for Rubidium fixing my bugs 😄 17:55:30 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN approved pull request #11110: Codechange: the templated StrMakeValidInPlace is not in place https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/11110#pullrequestreview-1517049302 17:55:40 <truebrain> RaaS .. Rubidium-as-a-Service 17:56:34 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN approved pull request #11111: Codechange: do not make a string valid in place, to then copy it https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/11111#pullrequestreview-1517050717 17:59:40 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #11112: Codechange: rename cargo aging days to periods, as they are not really days https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/11112#issuecomment-1624100543 17:59:46 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 merged pull request #11110: Codechange: the templated StrMakeValidInPlace is not in place https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/11110 17:59:54 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 merged pull request #11111: Codechange: do not make a string valid in place, to then copy it https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/11111 18:02:40 <locosage> I guess first element of a vehicle group must always be a single vehicle, not another group 18:02:52 <locosage> so much for nesting... 18:04:59 <belajalilija> didnt andy do it? 18:05:22 <peter1138> Did andy mention GS again? 18:05:28 <locosage> in horse? 18:06:04 <belajalilija> locosage: yeah 18:06:23 <belajalilija> ive not actually used horse since vars was added but im sure he said it was possible 18:08:32 <ahyangyi> I see `Groups can also be nested (this is experimental as of December 2022 and may change with testing)` in the wiki though 18:09:20 <peter1138> Groups have been nestable for years. 18:09:28 <locosage> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1126575658861080656/Screenshot_from_2023-07-06_22-09-11.png 18:09:28 <locosage> afict horse always expands last element only 18:10:11 <peter1138> (9 years) 18:11:45 <ahyangyi> Uh, in the wiki for `variant_group` 18:12:16 <locosage> yeah, they're supposed to be nestable but looks like it's limited 18:15:05 <peter1138> Oh, you're talking about variants. They are nestable, and always have been. 18:15:39 <peter1138> Not sure why NML calls them "group" though. 18:17:10 <ahyangyi> Hey, this feature PR called it "engine variant groups" as well: 18:17:10 <ahyangyi> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10220 18:17:21 <peter1138> lol okay 18:17:37 <peter1138> Influenced by andy I guess. Oh well. 18:17:58 <peter1138> Anyway, yeah, they are nestable, up to 10 levels. 18:19:15 <peter1138> Although no particular reason for 10. 18:19:18 <locosage> 🤦♂️ 18:20:01 <peter1138> George uses nested variants in xUSSR (or whatever it is called) 18:20:17 *** jfs has joined #openttd 18:20:17 <jfs> someone posted a somewhat interesting idea in a comment on a youtube video of mine: screensaver mode for OTTD 18:20:42 <jfs> basically the game starting, loading and running a title screen, but with no menu or overlays, and just quits when you move the mouse/etc 18:20:46 <locosage> you have youtube channel? 18:21:00 <peter1138> Can it randomly go HONK HONK with ships on the map? 😄 18:21:02 <jfs> yes and no, just a regular personal one with a few random videos 18:21:44 <jfs> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXdDZufLZpM&lc=UgxkhjHIGmbHfxsKdXp4AaABAg 18:22:48 <belajalilija> i think having the scene change is good 18:23:01 <belajalilija> but the movement hurts my brain for some reason 18:23:42 <jfs> many have said that the scrolling is problematic for them to watch 18:24:13 <jfs> so maybe it's best to recommend that future title games stick to only static displays instead of pans/vehicle follows 18:28:39 <locosage> locosage: so, back to original question, am I missing something or should I open a bug? 18:36:22 <locosage> hm, maybe adding an unavailable vehicle as a group header can work... 18:36:31 <locosage> won't be purchasable though at first iirc 18:36:35 <locosage> and with grey text... 18:37:54 <brickblock19280> 1? 18:38:10 <locosage> 1 will add it to group B 18:38:47 <brickblock19280> Add two into one? 18:39:04 <locosage> wdym? 18:40:15 <ahyangyi> 3->1 will move 3 into the group B 18:40:22 <brickblock19280> That would be silly 18:40:39 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] eints-sync[bot] pushed 1 commits to master https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/commit/b2ccc19f2d13266f3aefd08260872c7397546314 18:40:40 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators) 19:03:02 <locosage> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1126589142235631676/Screenshot_from_2023-07-06_23-02-30.png 19:03:03 <locosage> yeah, with invisible vehicle it works but looks weird 19:03:24 <locosage> and it seems to ignore string color so can't fix it there 19:06:07 <belajalilija> this has got to be one of the most unintentionally cured grfs 19:08:27 <brickblock19280> wouldn't this be better fixed on game side tho 19:11:01 <locosage> yeah, but this spec is so cursed I don't even know how 19:11:21 <brickblock19280> fair 19:11:29 <locosage> problem is, it uses first vehicle as a group header 19:11:36 <locosage> but here it's a head of multiple groups 19:12:25 <brickblock19280> make separete groups property of head veh 19:12:26 <brickblock19280> ? 19:19:21 <locosage> how would that work? 19:19:44 <locosage> I guess a property to directly set "first bought" vehicle would work 19:19:54 <locosage> so group can be invisible but get replaced without buying 19:21:52 <locosage> or, actually, why is the game even showing disabled vehicle? 19:22:07 <locosage> can't it just choose any that is allowed? 19:22:15 <_glx_> someone ask for the feature IIRC 19:23:32 <locosage> you mean disabled vehicles? iirc they were supposed to be a solution for group names 19:23:43 <locosage> but it never worked so name cb was added 19:36:51 <locosage> I guess some kind of "vehicle group behavior" property would be the best solution 19:36:51 <locosage> 0 - regular vehicle 19:36:51 <locosage> >0 - vehicle group header (automatically set to NO_CLIMATE) 19:36:51 <locosage> 1 - not clickable 19:36:51 <locosage> 2 - buy last 19:36:53 <locosage> 3 - buy random 19:38:33 <brickblock19280> two and three should imo be chosen by the user not the grf 19:42:49 <locosage> yeah, that's debatable 19:43:47 <locosage> but imo that ship has already sailed with name callback 19:44:43 <locosage> would be even more weird if grf sets up name callback for last bought but user configures something else 19:45:48 <locosage> grf can make it configurable in its own parameters xD 20:12:44 <brickblock19280> it should be fine if grfs cant know then they shouldn't do it like that 20:13:05 <brickblock19280> and if they do then that is their 20:13:12 <brickblock19280> problem 20:14:42 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #11109: Add: [Emscripten] support for bootstrapping https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/11109 20:19:20 <_glx_> truebrain: it's strange, savegames and downloaded files are saved, but not the config it seems 20:20:18 <truebrain> is the mainloop properly shut down? As saving the config happens REALLY late in OpenTTD 20:20:24 <truebrain> like, after the video mainloop closes late 20:21:18 <_glx_> ah emscripten finishes with the video loop 20:21:25 <_glx_> nothing happens after it 20:23:35 <_glx_> ok if I change settings in the settings window they are saved immediately, but with game option or the survey window it's not the case 20:24:00 <_glx_> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1126609516054720562/image.png 20:24:00 <_glx_> well saved immediately multiple times it seems 20:25:45 *** gelignite has quit IRC 20:30:54 <_glx_> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1126611252517556294/image.png 20:30:54 <_glx_> yeah config saving happens after emscripten exit 20:41:47 <_glx_> I won't try to fix that 🙂 20:47:51 <truebrain> yeah, that code has always been a bit weird, honestly 20:48:00 <truebrain> but you can also wonder if the teardown of emscripten is in the right place 20:48:14 <truebrain> but easiest way would be to put those lines in a function, and call that when closing down emscripten 🙂 20:48:45 <truebrain> and yes, this assumed all setting changed caused a config save 20:48:50 <truebrain> so maybe the bug is just that game options don't 20:49:04 <_glx_> newgrf doesn't either 20:53:55 <_glx_> hmm CI failure is annoying, it build fine on my machine 20:55:00 <_glx_> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/actions/runs/5479748066/jobs/9982010006#step:8:886 doesn't look good 21:00:21 <Rubidium_> just try it again 21:00:50 <Rubidium_> i.e. rerun the fail jobs 21:11:01 <truebrain> that is the OOM paying a visit _glx_ 21:11:05 <truebrain> seems emscripten is pushing it 21:11:45 <truebrain> had it once before this week .. a retrigger fixed it 21:12:23 <_glx_> second time today 21:12:38 <truebrain> seems we found a limit ... now we need to check what we can do to avoid hitting it constantly 😛 21:14:29 <_glx_> btw survey should have received some wasm32 reports 🙂 21:18:53 *** keikoz has quit IRC 21:18:59 <_glx_> hmm and it failed again, that will be annoying 21:21:29 <truebrain> emscripten can't make HTTP connections, so no, the survey did not receive any, sorry 🙂 21:23:13 <truebrain> guess `IsSurveyPossible` should be extended to make EMSCRIPTEN return false too .. 21:29:21 *** m3henry has quit IRC 21:37:52 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 21:39:12 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 21:48:39 <_glx_> it's so weird to not be able to HTTP from a browser 21:59:16 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] zephyris opened issue #11115: [Bug]: Window focus for keyboard shortcuts doesn't respect draw order/priority of windows https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/11115 22:01:35 <_glx_> ah 3rd try passed 22:04:51 <truebrain> _glx_: you can, but you can't do it streaming 22:05:08 <truebrain> but when I am done with the last pieces of the infra migration, and written a blog-post, I want to fiddle with pthread support in emscripten 22:05:17 <truebrain> as if that works, it becomes easier to have a non-streaming variant 22:05:43 <_glx_> yeah I looked at commits since the version we use, I saw some pthread ones 22:06:12 <truebrain> and they are also moving towards WASI, which is a good thing 22:06:26 <_glx_> and many WASMFS commits too 22:06:41 <truebrain> yeah, them building out on what WASI offers, which is just a much better way of doing WASM 22:07:03 <truebrain> (and faster) 22:07:18 <truebrain> one downside is with SharedBuffers .. it requires a ton of headers on the host hosting it 22:07:25 <truebrain> but as we are those people, we should be able to manage 🙂 22:17:37 *** nielsm has quit IRC 23:33:42 *** k-man has quit IRC 23:34:33 *** k-man has joined #openttd