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00:11:11 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 01:53:02 *** MinchinWeb[m] has quit IRC 01:53:18 *** MinchinWeb[m] has joined #openttd 02:55:33 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 03:13:21 *** Smedles has quit IRC 03:13:36 *** Smedles has joined #openttd 04:12:49 *** Zathras_1 has joined #openttd 04:12:52 *** Zathras_11 has joined #openttd 04:16:11 *** Zathras_4 has quit IRC 04:16:16 *** Zathras_7 has quit IRC 04:52:21 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 04:52:23 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 04:52:36 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 04:52:50 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 05:11:37 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] eints-sync[bot] pushed 1 commits to master https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/commit/1883bb67311f84b692e7e50f9d7b392328af4419 05:11:38 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators) 05:14:59 <__abigail> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/commit/1883bb67311f84b692e7e50f9d7b392328af4419#diff-d3a8a5eb7835182d63bf340fdcddf5178d973c1033129ddc34eaf62403d11d25 05:14:59 <__abigail> There are a couple of lines here that revert to non-US spelling (synchroni**s**ation, behavio**u**r) 07:21:50 *** MinchinWeb[m] has quit IRC 07:22:09 *** MinchinWeb[m] has joined #openttd 07:27:38 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/survey-web] survey-summary[bot] pushed 1 commits to main https://github.com/OpenTTD/survey-web/commit/4595243fb88390201f941c9a73359db1f78723f4 07:27:39 <DorpsGek> - Add: summary for week 08 of 2026 (by OpenTTD Survey) 08:05:26 <andythenorth> moin 08:16:40 <LordAro> o7 08:41:06 <jfkuayue> O2Holidays 09:24:13 <peter1138> Darling hold my hand? 09:36:12 <LordAro> peter1138: nah that's jet2 09:38:27 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 09:57:19 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] zephyris commented on pull request #14391: Change: Make tile highlight red if the place operation would fail. https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/14391#issuecomment-3943745625 09:59:31 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #14391: Change: Make tile highlight red if the place operation would fail. https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/14391#issuecomment-3943759831 10:01:05 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] mmtunligit commented on pull request #14391: Change: Make tile highlight red if the place operation would fail. https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/14391#issuecomment-3943768056 10:10:42 <xarick> hi 10:15:12 <xarick> no more AI developments in the last 2 weeks :| 10:49:48 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #14391: Change: Make tile highlight red if the place operation would fail. https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/14391#issuecomment-3944025848 10:52:08 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Rito13 commented on pull request #14391: Change: Make tile highlight red if the place operation would fail. https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/14391#issuecomment-3944036909 10:58:41 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #14391: Change: Make tile highlight red if the place operation would fail. https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/14391#issuecomment-3944067730 11:24:15 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #14391: Change: Make tile highlight red if the place operation would fail. https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/14391#issuecomment-3944191980 11:25:06 <peter1138> Hmm, pick industry to fund then pick layout? 11:39:09 *** reldred has joined #openttd 11:39:09 <reldred> 👀 11:43:17 <peter1138> Not the dreaded picker window...? 11:46:16 <mmtunligit> pickerwindows good 11:46:40 <mmtunligit> i may be biased 11:47:13 *** locosage has joined #openttd 11:47:13 <locosage> would be hard to see what layout actually fits with a window 11:47:28 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler approved pull request #15335: Change: Decapitalise third line strings https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/15335#pullrequestreview-3840614406 11:49:29 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler approved pull request #15326: Codechange: use existing enum over magic number https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/15326#pullrequestreview-3840622316 11:49:46 <__abigail> https://tenor.com/view/fire-writing-gif-24533171 11:49:53 <__abigail> Me writing PRs 11:50:44 <mmtunligit> this is how i feel too 11:51:09 <__abigail> Another one to show off to recruiters 11:51:14 <__abigail> 👺 11:51:18 <mmtunligit> and then i get reviews back and poseidon himself has thrown a massive wave over 11:53:34 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler commented on pull request #15330: Codechange: document parameters of destructors... https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/15330#pullrequestreview-3840636626 11:55:39 <__abigail> mmtunligit: True 11:56:14 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler approved pull request #15334: Fix #15318: Nonsensical error message when trying to send aircraft to hangar with no usable airports https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/15334#pullrequestreview-3840649455 12:29:22 <andythenorth> hmm dotted tile outlines? or outline only the borders of the whole area? 12:29:33 <andythenorth> or tiles with `?` glyphs in them? or dice 12:51:21 *** toktik has quit IRC 12:51:50 *** toktik has joined #openttd 13:20:47 <peter1138> Hmm, most of the "Port" layouts are pretty large anyway. 13:22:12 <peter1138> And that's with excluding the water check tiles. 13:39:50 <andythenorth> yup 13:40:20 <andythenorth> the maximum bounding box of most FIRS industries will tend to 'large' 13:41:25 <andythenorth> the secondary layouts can be offset in cardinal directions https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/FQgDzMzi/image.png 13:52:27 <peter1138> Hmm, 5x10 but. 13:52:56 <peter1138> And that's a 10x7 or something. 13:54:32 <peter1138> Tile highlight only allows a whole rectangle, no arbitrary shapes. Hmm. 14:06:54 <peter1138> Port has a couple of 10x10 layouts though. So that's fun. 14:10:17 <andythenorth> indirectly inspired by this https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1278225#p1278225 I have had a horrible idea 14:11:02 <andythenorth> spiral walk around the tile the player clicked, testing for buildable 14:11:57 <andythenorth> being really horrible, the GS Storybook has a button type where the player can click a tile, so the mythical FIRS GS could 'fix' industry placement, as it can also know all the layouts 14:12:13 <andythenorth> [but player would have to use the Storybook to build industries] 14:14:08 *** efessel has joined #openttd 14:14:08 <efessel> Morning/afternoon - has anyone reported any issues with desyncing with the 15.x release? 14:14:34 <LordAro> nope 14:15:53 <efessel> Ok, I'm going to try to track down some debug logs - seems like there is a desync issue on our vanilla servers with 15. Seems pretty sporadic, the best type of bug. 14:16:15 <LordAro> sounds fun 14:16:30 <LordAro> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/docs/debugging_desyncs.md for ref 14:22:25 <peter1138> Well, there's https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/15188 but it's a bit vague. 14:42:51 *** MinchinWeb[m] has quit IRC 14:44:34 *** MinchinWeb[m] has joined #openttd 15:37:08 *** Smedles has quit IRC 15:37:20 *** Smedles has joined #openttd 16:00:45 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 16:02:02 *** Flygon has quit IRC 16:11:07 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 merged pull request #15326: Codechange: use existing enum over magic number https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/15326 16:12:27 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 updated pull request #15330: Codechange: document parameters of destructors... https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/15330 16:13:11 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 merged pull request #15311: Fix #15310: Incorrect map tile indices used for aircraft outside the map when crashing aircraft or finding hangars https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/15311 16:13:14 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 closed issue #15310: [Crash]: aircraft landing outside of the map can be a problem https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/15310 16:13:20 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 merged pull request #15332: Codefix: [CI] file descriptions checker crashed when file was removed/renamed. https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/15332 16:15:00 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 merged pull request #15336: Cleanup: STR_ERROR_TOO_CLOSE_TO_EDGE_OF_MAP_SUB is not needed. https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/15336 16:18:14 *** gelignite has quit IRC 16:33:12 <xarick> https://bananas.openttd.org/package/ai no updates :( 16:40:58 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on issue #15188: [Bug]: Desync on save+collision https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/15188 17:02:29 <_glx_> hmm Vehicle::Crash() calls RandomRange(), but that could just be a easy to see side effect 17:03:41 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 commented on issue #15188: [Bug]: Desync on save+collision https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/15188 17:05:53 <peter1138> Vehicle tile hash may be in a different order for different clients, right? 17:07:00 *** f_ has quit IRC 17:07:10 <peter1138> FloodVehiclesOnTile seems to use it directly. 17:08:05 <peter1138> As does CheckTrainCollision. 17:10:59 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on issue #15188: [Bug]: Desync on save+collision https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/15188 17:11:43 *** f_ has joined #openttd 17:21:38 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 commented on issue #15188: [Bug]: Desync on save+collision https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/15188 17:24:07 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on issue #15188: [Bug]: Desync on save+collision https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/15188 17:25:41 <Rubidium> _glx_: could you check a Windows debug build with my savegame? 17:26:52 <_glx_> I have 2 VS sessions, one with windows, and one with wsl 17:26:58 <_glx_> I can try 17:27:02 <Rubidium> I want to first check whether it might be a compiler bug 17:28:23 <Rubidium> you can just load the game and wait like a second for the news message to pop up 17:29:29 <_glx_> pff of course it's a norev000 17:29:55 <Rubidium> doesn't matter, you don't need multiplayer for my savegame 17:30:31 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on issue #15188: [Bug]: Desync on save+collision https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/15188 17:31:20 <Rubidium> peter1138: I've got a situation of loading same savegame in single player with different results within about 2 seconds 17:31:50 <peter1138> Yes, vehicles moving will mean the tile hash data is different. 17:33:19 * Rubidium wonders what in the tile hash is non-deterministic in that case 17:33:53 <peter1138> I'll make a commit for you test in a second. 17:37:25 <Rubidium> I might not have been clear enough. Official Linux build and own debug build reliably get a result of 142, over about 5 attempts. Official Windows build gets reliably a result of 192. As far as I know with the same initial state, i.e. -x -c missing.cfg -g path/to/save. I wouldn't know in what manner our hash is non-deterministic in that context. 17:37:33 <peter1138> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/compare/master...PeterN:OpenTTD:fix-15188 17:37:40 <_glx_> I get 142 17:38:10 <peter1138> Tile hash is non-deterministic as long as the game is running. 17:38:52 <peter1138> But when loading a savegame it should be all be in the same state regardless of build. 17:38:53 <Rubidium> _glx_: interesting! The MSVC release build gets 192, linux 142 17:39:51 <_glx_> but I'm testing with master 17:40:59 <peter1138> Heh, there's a comment about the non-determinism of the tile hash, in a commit written by... Xarick. 17:43:09 <_glx_> 192 with release build (still master) 17:43:14 <Rubidium> _glx_: can you build today's nightly / g 1883bb6731? The release executable does gets 192 (like Windows release build of 15.2) 17:43:18 <_glx_> that's a nice one 17:44:55 <Rubidium> my debug build still gets 142 as well 17:44:56 <_glx_> ok, Vehicle::Crash calls are inverted 17:45:25 <_glx_> in debug it first does the 188 people vehicle 17:45:36 <Rubidium> so I guess we can conclude that MSVC release builds are different from MSVC debug builds and GCC builds 17:45:52 <_glx_> then the 47 people one 17:45:59 <_glx_> in release it's the opposite 17:49:05 <_jgr_> It's probably the last line of CheckTrainCollision then 17:49:20 <_glx_> yup that was my idea 17:50:05 <_glx_> `return TrainCrashed(t) + TrainCrashed(coll);` is a bad idea when Random is involved 17:50:37 <Rubidium> I doubt that splitting it into two lines will help much 17:51:12 <_jgr_> TrainCrashed also does various other with path reservations, etc. 17:51:23 <_jgr_> A non-deterministic order does not seem helpful 17:52:33 <_glx_> splitting the line, I get 142 in release 17:53:05 <Rubidium> oh gosh... 17:53:20 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 17:53:42 <peter1138> It did used to be two lines. 17:53:44 <_glx_> RandomRange(188) + RandomRange(47) 17:53:57 <Rubidium> now the real question: is the random/savegame state after the call the same or different between the 192 and 142 variants? 17:54:23 <_glx_> it's not 17:54:37 <_glx_> it still 2 calls 17:55:27 <Rubidium> I just want to make sure whether this is a 'transient' desync as in "only" the news message is affected, or that the gamestate afterwards differs as well 17:55:34 <xarick> did I do something bad? 17:55:41 <peter1138> No. 18:02:11 <_glx_> hmm TrainCrash() reserves under consist, which can trigger stations random 18:03:47 <_glx_> and TriggerStationRandomisation() has a nice Random() call 18:04:28 <_glx_> so the issue is not the number of victims, but the order of the calls 18:04:55 <_glx_> if trains in station is crashed before or after train not in station 18:09:26 <xarick> I saw a 'sort' somewhere 18:09:34 <xarick> what about stable_sort 18:23:51 <_glx_> I think with the test savegame only the number of victims is different because it's using default stations, but a newgrf station could get a different animation state via the triggers 18:25:18 <xarick> isn't there an InteractiveRandom? 18:25:23 <xarick> I forgot 18:28:45 <xarick> line industry_gui.cpp:682 seems suspicious? 18:30:14 <_jgr_> It is fine 18:30:22 <_glx_> no it uses InteractiveRandom because it's the correct use 18:32:35 <xarick> almost2.sav, im testing it i get 142 vs 192 too 18:32:51 <xarick> was it supposed to desync?, not getting a desync error 18:33:50 *** michi_cc[d] has joined #openttd 18:33:50 <michi_cc[d]> Well, execution order between sequence points is unspecified, so the compiler changing the order of function calls around is fully standard. 18:56:08 <xarick> i tested a msvc clang build 18:56:13 <xarick> I get 142 18:58:51 <xarick> yay, clang builds in under 100 seconds 19:11:47 *** goddess_ishtar has joined #openttd 19:11:47 <goddess_ishtar> hrm, I wonder - would an autosort feature for the active NewGRF list be useful? 19:14:19 *** coobies has joined #openttd 19:14:19 <coobies> Seems like it could be dangerous because the load order is important 19:14:39 <goddess_ishtar> load order does matter, but it also tends to follow recognizable patterns - your infrastructure GRFs are probably going before your tracktypes - in a way which is entirely player-managed and thus prone to human error and unwieldiness 19:14:58 <goddess_ishtar> err 19:14:58 <goddess_ishtar> trains 19:15:01 <goddess_ishtar> not tracktypes 19:15:04 <goddess_ishtar> you get what I mean 19:15:40 <goddess_ishtar> but yeah, it'd be a separate button that the user would have to consciously invoke for that reason 19:15:43 <goddess_ishtar> too many corner cases 19:16:55 <goddess_ishtar> so the sorter would use Bananas tagging data or whatever to try and categorize grfs, and then sort them based on that 19:18:00 <goddess_ishtar> which is likely to produce something broadly correct, which the user can then fine-tune if necessary 19:18:57 <goddess_ishtar> people already do this with the NML fake headers, they just suck because they're inherently jank 19:19:33 <goddess_ishtar> (and they rely on you, the user, to make sure that you've put the right GRF under the right heading) 19:19:57 <goddess_ishtar> (we should eliminate ways for the user to shoot themselves in the foot whenever possible) 19:28:33 <peter1138> Hmm, so I guess the out-of-order tile hash is probably not a problem, but still might be worth investigating? 19:33:37 <Rubidium> peter1138: in this case it's probably not the problem, but I can imagine (especially) the flooding case to be affected when there are multiple vehicles on the same tile. 19:36:11 <xarick> flood a depot with vehicles inside 19:36:22 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 19:56:44 <andythenorth> hmm 20:49:46 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 20:49:48 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 20:52:49 *** gelignite has quit IRC 21:23:24 <Wolf01> By the way... topic is old 21:23:28 <andythenorth> should Horse include powered brake vans (so they can lead the train?) 21:24:02 <andythenorth> @NeddyK does it in Sunshine Trains 21:24:54 <andythenorth> maybe it's one feature too far :P 21:45:36 <andythenorth> yeah, dunno if I like it https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/ZGcIOwBA/image.png 21:46:02 <andythenorth> grf lolz for something that would be better done in the client :) 21:48:40 <andythenorth> there's Invisible Leading Engine grf already https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/Q1EQGofP/image.png 21:52:15 <andythenorth> emperorjake ^ if I add one of those to Horse, any thoughts? 👀 21:55:02 <andythenorth> hmm what speed to give it though :P 22:00:33 <mmtunligit> i mean if its just there to be a dummy engine that doesnt actually do anything besides have the train face a certain way, presumably youd want to set it as the max speed of any locos in the set so that other cars can drag the speed back down to whatever the currect era is 22:01:32 <andythenorth> yeah 22:02:04 <andythenorth> I think maybe it's silly, and people who really want it can use Jake's existing grf 22:31:10 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 22:59:12 <peter1138> @topic 22:59:12 <DorpsGek> peter1138: 15.1 | Website: *.openttd.org (source: github, translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, 'Most recent' neither | English only 22:59:16 <peter1138> @topic 1 15.2 22:59:16 <DorpsGek> peter1138: topic [<channel>] 22:59:23 <peter1138> Can't remember it :/ 23:05:36 <xarick> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1475629699228237824/image.png?ex=699e2ec0&is=699cdd40&hm=a12a3b5a7a2ae9c6957861192a57001fef8117c03600255fa201f09d85d44cca& 23:05:36 <xarick> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1475629699664318626/image.png?ex=699e2ec0&is=699cdd40&hm=da0e8606bedeb57af728072388dc7ac89b92460e74275ab7bd1c2ba920ca6290& 23:05:36 <xarick> is that not possible? 23:06:03 <xarick> oh, nevermind, I see the problem 23:06:21 <xarick> Zeppeliner cleared vs zeppeliner crashed, yeah that's a bug in transai 23:17:43 <xarick> oh, fanioz has a version from 2025 23:17:52 <xarick> but bananas still on 2019 23:45:47 *** MinchinWeb[m] has quit IRC 23:49:41 *** MinchinWeb[m] has joined #openttd 23:50:12 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler approved pull request #15330: Codechange: document parameters of destructors... https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/15330#pullrequestreview-3844162892 23:56:24 <emperorjake> andythenorth: I wouldn't be opposed, bit niche but can definitely be useful 🙂