Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:10:21 *** MrShell [~mrshell@HSI-KBW-078-043-164-174.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #openttd 00:12:16 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:12:59 *** joho^_^ [~joho@takamachi.nanoha.se] has quit [Server closed connection] 00:13:11 *** joho [~joho@takamachi.nanoha.se] has joined #openttd 00:16:17 *** MrShell [~mrshell@HSI-KBW-078-043-164-174.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:16:59 *** TinoDidriksen [~TinoDidri@alpha.visl.sdu.dk] has quit [Server closed connection] 00:17:06 *** adf88 [~Thunderbi@wis-zul.spine.pl] has quit [Quit: adf88] 00:17:15 *** TinoDidriksen [~TinoDidri@alpha.visl.sdu.dk] has joined #openttd 00:20:35 *** TheIJ [~rita@ceylon.silcana.net] has quit [Server closed connection] 00:22:11 *** TheIJ [~rita@ceylon.silcana.net] has joined #openttd 00:29:29 *** Midnightmyth [~quassel@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:32:03 *** scshunt [raedford@00017de0.user.oftc.net] has quit [Server closed connection] 00:32:04 *** scshunt [raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #openttd 00:32:21 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 00:41:39 *** Phoenix_the_II [~ralph@13-17-191-195.ftth.glasoperator.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:48:03 *** Hirundo [~Hirundo@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Server closed connection] 00:48:06 *** Hirundo [~Hirundo@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 00:48:11 *** Terkhen [~Terkhen@0001612d.user.oftc.net] has quit [Server closed connection] 00:48:19 *** planetmaker [~planetmak@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Server closed connection] 00:48:36 *** Terkhen [~Terkhen@0001612d.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 00:48:36 *** planetmaker [~planetmak@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 00:48:37 *** mode/#openttd [+o Terkhen] by ChanServ 00:48:40 *** mode/#openttd [+o planetmaker] by ChanServ 01:02:19 *** dotwaffle [~dotwaffle@00013104.user.oftc.net] has quit [Server closed connection] 01:02:52 *** dotwaffle [~dotwaffle@00013104.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 01:06:52 *** Hazzard [~oftc-webi@c-67-174-253-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:10:35 *** avdg [~avdg@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Server closed connection] 01:10:36 *** avdg [~avdg@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 01:10:59 *** XeryusTC [~XeryusTC@000128e4.user.oftc.net] has quit [Server closed connection] 01:11:06 *** XeryusTC [~XeryusTC@000128e4.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 01:13:04 *** Haube [~michi@77-20-40-44-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:18:43 *** Pinkbeast [damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk] has quit [Server closed connection] 01:18:51 *** djgummikuh [~djgummiku@srv02.letsplayonline.eu] has quit [Server closed connection] 01:18:51 *** djgummikuh [~djgummiku@srv02.letsplayonline.eu] has joined #openttd 01:27:54 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@177.40.3.158] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:33:54 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@2001:828:405:30:83:96:177:42] has quit [Server closed connection] 01:33:55 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@2001:828:405:30:83:96:177:42] has joined #openttd 01:37:33 *** Jomann [~abchirk@f053040035.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 01:46:05 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~flex@i59F6C624.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:46:55 *** LordAro [~LordAro@host81-148-242-53.range81-148.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:55:54 *** orudge [~orudge@000128f1.user.oftc.net] has quit [Server closed connection] 01:55:55 *** orudge [~orudge@owenrudge.net] has joined #openttd 01:58:59 *** SpComb^ [terom@zerg.fixme.fi] has quit [Server closed connection] 01:59:01 *** SpComb^ [terom@zerg.fixme.fi] has joined #openttd 02:14:51 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@87.115.174.228] has quit [Server closed connection] 02:15:02 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@87.115.174.228] has joined #openttd 02:16:59 *** kais58 [~kais58@cpc8-cwma7-2-0-cust113.7-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Server closed connection] 02:17:14 *** kais58 [~kais58@cpc8-cwma7-2-0-cust113.7-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 02:17:31 *** SpComb [terom@zapotek.paivola.fi] has quit [Server closed connection] 02:17:32 *** SpComb [terom@zapotek.paivola.fi] has joined #openttd 02:23:30 *** jonty-comp [~jonty@000128f3.user.oftc.net] has quit [Server closed connection] 02:24:23 *** DarkAce-Z [~BillyMays@50-32-4-173.drr01.hrbg.pa.frontiernet.net] has joined #openttd 02:25:23 *** jrambo [~jrambo@93-86-92-138.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Server closed connection] 02:25:46 *** jrambo [~jrambo@93-86-92-138.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #openttd 02:27:07 *** Yexo [~Yexo@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Server closed connection] 02:27:36 *** Yexo [~Yexo@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 02:28:40 *** jonty-comp [~jonty@000128f3.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 02:29:08 *** DarkAceZ [~BillyMays@50-32-36-149.drr01.hrbg.pa.frontiernet.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:36:06 *** KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:41:47 *** guru3 [~guru3@000128ea.user.oftc.net] has quit [Server closed connection] 02:42:05 *** guru3 [~guru3@000128ea.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 02:42:50 *** EyeMWing [~Wing@c-68-33-226-154.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Server closed connection] 02:43:06 *** EyeMWing [~Wing@c-68-33-226-154.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 02:48:23 *** Dark-Ace-Z [~BillyMays@50-32-13-157.drr01.hrbg.pa.frontiernet.net] has joined #openttd 02:48:58 *** Arr`Gone [~alex@S01064ce676224df4.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Server closed connection] 02:49:23 *** Arr`Gone [~alex@S01064ce676224df4.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 02:50:26 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Server closed connection] 02:50:47 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 02:53:46 *** DarkAce-Z [~BillyMays@50-32-4-173.drr01.hrbg.pa.frontiernet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:04:25 *** yorick [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:16:59 *** Dark-Ace-Z is now known as DarkAceZ 03:17:02 *** LeandroL [~leandro@190.189.0.224] has joined #openttd 03:18:34 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Server closed connection] 03:19:49 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 03:19:52 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 03:20:50 *** roadt [~roadt@223.240.97.60] has joined #openttd 03:20:56 *** roadt_ [~roadt@223.240.97.60] has joined #openttd 03:21:43 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@98.145.153.186] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:31:26 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@98.145.153.186] has joined #openttd 03:44:38 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye] 04:38:25 *** Hazzard [~oftc-webi@c-67-174-253-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 05:40:00 *** GriffinOneTwo [~oftc-webi@adsl-68-123-206-1.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net] has joined #openttd 05:43:57 *** DDR [~kvirc@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:44:21 *** DDR [~kvirc@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 05:56:01 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD4EF9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 05:56:16 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD4533.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 06:16:43 *** Hazzard [~oftc-webi@c-67-174-253-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:07:02 *** DDR [~kvirc@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:07:23 *** DDR [~kvirc@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 07:12:32 *** DDR [~kvirc@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:12:54 *** DDR [~kvirc@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 07:22:02 *** Super_Random [~kvirc@75-102-176-79.d2.itctel.com] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 08:21:43 *** kero [~keikoz@202.4.69.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #openttd 08:25:58 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@98.145.153.186] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 26.0/20131205075310]] 08:26:46 *** adf88 [~Thunderbi@wis-zul.spine.pl] has joined #openttd 08:30:54 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:32:27 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 08:45:12 *** Japa [~Japa@117.201.96.30] has joined #openttd 08:48:50 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.164.39] has joined #openttd 09:01:34 *** Haube [~michi@77-20-40-44-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd 09:12:05 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 09:16:13 *** Crispbee [~oftc-webi@host86-138-114-18.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 09:16:37 *** Crispbee [~oftc-webi@host86-138-114-18.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has quit [] 09:30:21 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:35:25 *** Progman [~progman@p57A197D9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 09:39:56 *** kero [~keikoz@202.4.69.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: kero] 09:47:18 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 09:57:19 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:59:27 *** Japa_ [~Japa@117.201.101.98] has joined #openttd 10:02:28 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host58-55-dynamic.182-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 10:02:57 <Wolf01> moin 10:06:08 *** Japa [~Japa@117.201.96.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:09:06 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 10:11:32 <Rubidium> moi Wolf01 10:23:59 *** johnrambo [~jrambo@93-86-92-138.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #openttd 10:26:47 *** Progman [~progman@p57A197D9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:29:01 *** guru3_ [~guru3@90-230-86-71-no225.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 10:31:12 *** DDR [~kvirc@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:31:12 *** jrambo [~jrambo@93-86-92-138.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:33:29 *** waffle [~dotwaffle@on6.co.uk] has joined #openttd 10:36:10 *** dotwaffle [~dotwaffle@00013104.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:36:10 *** guru3 [~guru3@000128ea.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:36:54 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 10:36:57 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 10:37:41 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.164.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:37:42 *** Netsplit reticulum.oftc.net <-> coulomb.oftc.net quits: SpComb^, Aphid, orudge, Prof_Frink, Japa_, @Terkhen, TheIJ, joho, adf88, djgummikuh, (+4 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them) 10:37:42 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.164.39] has joined #openttd 10:38:24 <NGC3982> Morning. 10:39:05 *** Netsplit over, joins: Japa_, adf88, Eddi|zuHause, Prof_Frink, SpComb^, orudge, djgummikuh, avdg, @Terkhen, scshunt (+3 more) 10:39:16 <Alberth> mon 10:39:18 *** mode/#openttd [+v Terkhen] by ChanServ 10:39:18 <Alberth> +i 10:39:35 <planetmaker> niom 10:40:06 <NGC3982> iomn 10:40:28 *** TheIJ [~rita@ceylon.silcana.net] has joined #openttd 10:41:10 *** Japa_ [~Japa@117.201.101.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:42:57 *** DDR [~kvirc@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 10:43:26 *** Japa_ [~Japa@117.201.101.98] has joined #openttd 10:45:36 *** adf88 [~Thunderbi@wis-zul.spine.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:54:16 *** Netsplit reticulum.oftc.net <-> coulomb.oftc.net quits: Aphid, SpComb^, orudge, Prof_Frink, @Terkhen, joho, djgummikuh, scshunt, Stimrol, avdg, (+1 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them) 10:55:17 *** Netsplit over, joins: Eddi|zuHause, Prof_Frink, SpComb^, orudge, djgummikuh, avdg, @Terkhen, scshunt, joho, Aphid (+1 more) 10:59:14 *** orudge [~orudge@owenrudge.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:59:18 *** orudge [~orudge@owenrudge.net] has joined #openttd 11:01:42 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6A4DA.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 11:25:37 *** Ristovski [~rafael@89.205.3.77] has joined #openttd 11:30:53 *** wakou2 [~stephen@host86-179-103-164.range86-179.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 11:34:40 *** Jomann [~abchirk@f053040035.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:43:18 *** adf88 [~Thunderbi@wis-zul.spine.pl] has joined #openttd 11:47:54 *** Gethiox2 [~gethiox@actg203.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 11:51:11 *** confound [~hdp@glaive.weftsoar.net] has quit [Server closed connection] 11:51:13 *** confound [~hdp@glaive.weftsoar.net] has joined #openttd 11:52:07 *** roadt [~roadt@223.240.97.60] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:52:22 *** roadt_ [~roadt@223.240.97.60] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:56:40 *** DorpsGek [~dorpsgek@000128f9.user.oftc.net] has quit [Server closed connection] 11:56:59 *** DorpsGek [~dorpsgek@000128f9.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 11:57:02 *** mode/#openttd [+o DorpsGek] by ChanServ 12:05:41 *** FLHerne [~FLHerne@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 12:06:05 *** Mek [~quassel@marijnalexwedding.com] has quit [Server closed connection] 12:06:05 *** Mek [~quassel@marijnalexwedding.com] has joined #openttd 12:13:49 *** SmatZ [~smatz@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Server closed connection] 12:13:57 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Server closed connection] 12:14:07 *** SmatZ- [~smatz@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 12:14:07 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 12:14:21 *** V453000 [~V453000@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Server closed connection] 12:14:35 *** LordAro [~LordAro@host81-148-242-53.range81-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 12:14:37 *** V453000 [~V453000@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 12:15:57 *** NGC3982 [appe@noskapin.krot.se] has quit [Server closed connection] 12:15:58 *** NGC3982 [appe@noskapin.krot.se] has joined #openttd 12:20:30 *** checkbook [~rduser@gw0.dpedu.io] has quit [Server closed connection] 12:20:42 *** checkbook [~rduser@gw0.dpedu.io] has joined #openttd 12:20:59 *** Aphid [~Aphid@5351C956.cm-6-2d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [] 12:26:20 *** Elukka [~Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:33:33 *** Taede [~Taede@cpc10-linl9-2-0-cust80.18-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Server closed connection] 12:33:49 *** Taede [~Taede@cpc10-linl9-2-0-cust80.18-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 12:34:13 *** michi_cc [michi@00012723.user.oftc.net] has quit [Server closed connection] 12:34:30 *** michi_cc [michi@00012723.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 12:34:33 *** mode/#openttd [+v michi_cc] by ChanServ 12:38:07 *** skyem123 [~skyem123@cpc1-walt4-0-0-cust432.13-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 12:39:17 *** TrueBrain [~truebrain@ip82-139-82-247.lijbrandt.net] has quit [Server closed connection] 12:39:40 *** TrueBrain [~truebrain@ip82-139-82-247.lijbrandt.net] has joined #openttd 12:40:05 *** APTX [APTX@aptx.org] has quit [Server closed connection] 12:40:07 *** APTX [APTX@aptx.org] has joined #openttd 12:48:24 *** adf89 [~Thunderbi@wis-zul.spine.pl] has joined #openttd 12:48:37 *** murr4y [murray@kvikshaug.no] has quit [Server closed connection] 12:49:13 *** murr4y [murray@kvikshaug.no] has joined #openttd 12:51:15 *** adf88 [~Thunderbi@wis-zul.spine.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:56:57 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 12:57:17 *** KenjiE20 [kenjie20@46.246.119.109] has quit [Server closed connection] 13:16:44 <Eddi|zuHause> miau 13:18:52 <michi_cc> Eddi|zuHause: Has your cat become sentient now? 13:19:09 <Eddi|zuHause> probably 13:19:22 <Eddi|zuHause> can you disprove it? :p 13:23:58 <fonsinchen> Let's have a little poll: Who of you would prefer destinations to distribution for town cargoes (passengers, mail, goods, food, water)? 13:24:05 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-5f741044.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 13:24:30 <fonsinchen> Who generally prefers distribution over destinations, also for non-town cargoes? 13:26:29 <fonsinchen> I'm just thinking that destinations don't make much sense if you have 20 towns in the list of places to be served. So I'm pondering if I can restrict the whole thing to industries only. 13:26:38 <fonsinchen> This would make everything a bit simpler. 13:26:53 *** strohalm [~smoofi@cpe-0018f841fb5c.ip-pool.rftonline.net] has quit [Server closed connection] 13:26:55 *** strohalm [~smoofi@cpe-0018f841fb5c.ip-pool.rftonline.net] has joined #openttd 13:27:45 <planetmaker> how does that make it simpler, fonsinchen ? 13:27:49 *** aproxy [bouncer@applecraftserver.com] has quit [Server closed connection] 13:28:04 <fonsinchen> Not having to drag around the SourceType everywhere would be nice 13:28:12 *** aproxy [bouncer@applecraftserver.com] has joined #openttd 13:28:18 <fonsinchen> Also Headquarters are also a kind of source and they're hard to support 13:29:29 <fonsinchen> Allowing only distribution (symmetric or asymmetric) or manual for pax and mail resolves that problem quite nicely. 13:30:09 <planetmaker> fonsinchen, houses can accept any cargo 13:31:28 <fonsinchen> Hrm, I see. They can also accept stuff for which there is no town effect, I guess. 13:31:34 <planetmaker> yes 13:31:49 <fonsinchen> But how would I know about that anyway when only looking at the towns. 13:31:54 <planetmaker> it's just a matter of writing the NewGRF such that they do 13:31:57 <fonsinchen> Let me check that ... 13:33:09 <fonsinchen> Apparently Town will account for maximum NUM_CARGO supplied cargoes, but only NUM_TE accepted ones. 13:33:19 <fonsinchen> That is ... interesting. 13:35:37 <planetmaker> oh, fonsinchen they can also *produce* any cargo 13:35:40 <Eddi|zuHause> fonsinchen: just make a record of the cargos during the tile loop? 13:36:25 <planetmaker> callback 0x2E for houses 13:36:28 * fonsinchen hates adding things to the tile loop. 13:36:51 <michi_cc> fonsinchen: I think you can guess my poll choice :) 13:36:52 <Eddi|zuHause> fonsinchen: if you need a test case, try ECSHouses, it has a fuel station coded as house 13:37:23 <fonsinchen> michi_cc, have you seen what the town windows look like in YACD when you have many big towns? 13:37:29 <Eddi|zuHause> but it only has like 6/8 acceptance, so you need two of them... 13:38:02 <Eddi|zuHause> which is one of the most stupid design decisions... 13:38:03 <michi_cc> Yes, but that might simply mean that one of the scale factors has to be bigger. 13:38:58 * fonsinchen has to go back to the drawing board. 13:39:10 <fonsinchen> It's even messier than I had though. 13:39:24 <michi_cc> fonsinchen: Keeping track of house acceptance isn't hard and not much of a performance problem (http://www.icosahedron.de/openttd/git/yacd.git/commitdiff/d2d24d29b44189e32a6e27c978cf5d36cd224c6e) 13:40:07 *** GriffinOneTwo [~oftc-webi@adsl-68-123-206-1.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:40:35 <michi_cc> Exactly because of those stupid x/8 problems I decided from the start to only go down to 4x4 tile squares. 13:43:00 <michi_cc> Together with http://www.icosahedron.de/openttd/git/yacd.git/commitdiff/7bcabd7682b7f51e89fd00c370465fe8c3b2aac1 and http://www.icosahedron.de/openttd/git/yacd.git/commitdiff/2d961453ba10dbb0bb800620e0b80210e7ec7b48 it is IMHO quite a good approximation of station acceptance. 13:43:40 <fonsinchen> But why would you actually use the houses at all? That commit you're quoting stores all necessary information in Town. Each station is associated to a town and knows what cargo it gets. No need to make it even more fiddly, I'd say. 13:45:05 <Eddi|zuHause> the point was to decide the destinations _before_ you have a station? 13:45:18 *** roadt_ [~roadt@223.240.97.60] has joined #openttd 13:45:21 *** Virtual- [~Virtual@46.7.241.30] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:45:27 *** roadt [~roadt@223.240.97.60] has joined #openttd 13:45:33 <michi_cc> Because cargo destinations don't depend on whether there is a station or not, i.e. if you don't cover all houses in a town you're not going to get all possible cargo (to ease start-up the center tiles of the house get a much bigger proportion of the cargo than the outliers). 13:45:52 <michi_cc> s/house/town/ 13:46:41 <fonsinchen> Because of d2d24d you can calculate destinations based on the information already available from Town and Industry, right? 13:47:25 <fonsinchen> Then you have, like in YACD "town X wants to deliver to town Y, town Z and town ZZ". 13:47:33 <fonsinchen> Isn't that enough? 13:47:50 <michi_cc> If you include the commit after d2d24d, yes (collects industry *tile* acceptance). 13:48:42 <michi_cc> If the town is the destination, then yes. But for YACD the destinations is the actual house (well, 4x4 map square) and not the town itself. 13:49:36 <fonsinchen> Which commit is the one after d2d24d? 13:50:00 <michi_cc> http://www.icosahedron.de/openttd/git/yacd.git/commitdiff/3097fe836dee588d7ff5cee6bc8a1fc9e47dc8dd (http://www.icosahedron.de/openttd/git/yacd.git/shortlog) 13:50:10 <fonsinchen> And why do you want the 4x4 squares to be the destinations instead of towns? 13:50:29 <Eddi|zuHause> because of inner-city transport? 13:50:58 <fonsinchen> Just say the town delivers to itself 13:52:06 *** yorick [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 13:52:14 <fonsinchen> The demands algorithm just has to make sure that no _station_ has itself as destination. 13:53:22 <Eddi|zuHause> but then you can get away with just dropping the people off at the main station, instead of bringing them to their homes 13:53:39 <michi_cc> Because I explicitly want to encourage building an inner-city distribution network over just needing to plop a single big station in the middle of the town. 13:54:00 *** LordAro [~LordAro@host81-148-242-53.range81-148.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:54:23 <fonsinchen> If you just plop a big station in the middle you'll miss out on the inner-city transported pax 13:54:30 <fonsinchen> You need at least 2 13:55:09 <fonsinchen> And then, to cover the whole town, you typically need multiple stations anyway and the demands algorithm can assign demands to them 13:55:17 *** peter1138 [~petern@00013681.user.oftc.net] has quit [Server closed connection] 13:55:30 *** peter1138 [~petern@lachesis.fuzzle.org] has joined #openttd 13:55:33 *** mode/#openttd [+o peter1138] by ChanServ 13:56:21 <fonsinchen> The cargo destination assignment has to be separate from he station demand assignment anyway. 13:56:58 <michi_cc> And due to the weights that are assigned to each square you even get something resembling a commute pattern (e.g. in-town pax from the outside areas of the town are more likely heading to the city center than some other outside area). More "realism" :p 13:57:43 <fonsinchen> Well, you get that with pure distribution, too. Say, in current trunk, you only build an inner-city network in one town. 13:58:14 <fonsinchen> Then the symmetric distribution will make sure that you get a lot of center to outside commutes 13:58:33 <fonsinchen> (and the other way round of course) 14:00:12 *** flaa [~flaa@89.100.79.103] has joined #openttd 14:00:15 <Eddi|zuHause> fonsinchen: the main difference between destinations and distribution is that in distribution you can safely leave out areas, you're only going to miss cargo that gets produced at this area. with destinations you miss the cargo that gets produced in this are AND the cargo that wants to go to this area 14:00:43 <Eddi|zuHause> so there is a higher penalty for leaving this area out 14:00:48 <fonsinchen> I know. What I'm trying to figure out now is the necessary granularity 14:00:59 <michi_cc> In the end it is simply personal opinion what the "right" way is. I still consider the destinations part of YACD a lot better than the routing part (all performance problems are almost only in the routing part, the destination generation is almost invisible on profiling) and quite well though out. 14:01:36 <fonsinchen> I have actually rebased the destinations part on current trunk. It works fine. 14:02:03 <fonsinchen> https://github.com/ulfhermann/openttd/commits/destinations 14:03:09 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Server closed connection] 14:03:14 *** LordAro [~LordAro@host81-148-242-53.range81-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 14:03:15 <fonsinchen> Now I'm wondering if I should use that or rewrite it in a simpler way. The fact that data is scattered around all over the place doesn't make it easy to integrate the destinations into the link graph. 14:04:24 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 14:04:38 <fonsinchen> I was more thinking about centralized lists of sources, sinks and their mappings by cargo which can easily be copied into a link graph job. 14:05:19 <Eddi|zuHause> a DestinationPool? 14:06:36 <fonsinchen> More like exactly NUM_CARGO Destinations objects. 14:07:01 *** skyem123_ [~skyem123@cpc1-walt4-0-0-cust432.13-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 14:10:23 *** skyem123__ [~skyem123@cpc1-walt4-0-0-cust432.13-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 14:12:05 *** blathijs [matthijs@drsnuggles.stderr.nl] has quit [Server closed connection] 14:12:07 *** blathijs [matthijs@drsnuggles.stderr.nl] has joined #openttd 14:12:57 *** skyem123 [~skyem123@cpc1-walt4-0-0-cust432.13-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:13:10 <frosch123> doesn't the difference between town destinations and 4x4 map square destination become important when towns grow into one town, and the houses beloging to different towns are directly adjacent? 14:13:27 *** skyem123 [~skyem123@cpc1-walt4-0-0-cust432.13-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 14:15:07 *** skyem123_ [~skyem123@cpc1-walt4-0-0-cust432.13-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:15:51 <fonsinchen> Sure, that is a problem. If we just go by town associated to a station we get wrong results then. 14:16:55 <fonsinchen> We may need a towns_near member in Station at some point to fix that 14:17:14 <fonsinchen> But for now, the direct town association is good enough, I think. 14:17:51 *** SpBot [spbot@skrblz.fixme.fi] has joined #openttd 14:17:51 <fonsinchen> While we're at it we could also add a headquarters_near, for added fun. 14:18:26 <fonsinchen> In no case we really need the 4x4 squares, I think. 14:18:38 *** skyem123__ [~skyem123@cpc1-walt4-0-0-cust432.13-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:19:57 *** Fuco [foobar@server.dasnet.cz] has quit [Server closed connection] 14:19:59 *** Fuco [foobar@server.dasnet.cz] has joined #openttd 14:21:17 *** JGR [~JGR@host31-51-111-77.range31-51.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Server closed connection] 14:21:44 *** JGR [~JGR@host31-51-111-77.range31-51.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 14:22:41 *** FLHerne [~FLHerne@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has left #openttd [Konversation terminated!] 14:23:09 *** TheMask96 [martijn@sloth.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Server closed connection] 14:23:11 *** TheMask96 [martijn@89.104.166.236] has joined #openttd 14:25:09 *** jjavaholic [~jjavaholi@grahamg63.plus.com] has quit [Server closed connection] 14:25:30 *** jjavaholic [~jjavaholi@grahamg63.plus.com] has joined #openttd 14:28:42 <andythenorth> michi_cc: "Because I explicitly want to encourage building an inner-city distribution network over just needing to plop a single big station in the middle of the town." <- that was one of the fun parts of YACD, but it could use less granularity :) 14:28:46 <andythenorth> smaller * 14:28:53 <andythenorth> fewer * 14:29:01 <andythenorth> I don't know the correct term :) 14:29:31 <andythenorth> anyway, after you've done it a few times, placing bus or tram stops every 8 tiles or so - the fun wears off :) 14:29:45 <andythenorth> 8x8 tiles, and assume people walk? 14:30:00 <andythenorth> introduce weather :P They only walk on some days :P 14:30:00 <michi_cc> Catchment radius of bus stops is till only 3 tiles... 14:30:40 <andythenorth> oic :) 14:31:22 <michi_cc> The 4x4 isn't random, but influenced quite a bit by station catchment. 14:31:46 <andythenorth> in case of confusion, I do think it's a good design choice :) 14:32:05 *** xT2 [~ST2@bl20-224-181.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Server closed connection] 14:32:24 <andythenorth> but I found it very hard to not have pax pile up in large cities 14:32:32 *** ST2 [~ST2@bl20-224-181.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd 14:32:32 *** ST2 is now known as xT2 14:32:39 <andythenorth> after a while I would have thousands waiting and didn't bother trying to fix 14:33:13 <andythenorth> maybe it's a pax generation issue, or a vehicle set issue, not the destinations mechanic 14:35:17 *** KouDy_ [~koudy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Server closed connection] 14:35:30 *** KouDy [~koudy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 14:53:44 *** Super_Random [~kvirc@75-102-176-79.d2.itctel.com] has joined #openttd 14:56:05 <Eddi|zuHause> the problem is that the "cargo wating" vs. "station rating" feedback effect is not working well 14:56:24 <Eddi|zuHause> but that doesn't really have anything to do with destinations 14:56:49 <Eddi|zuHause> it's just without destinations/distribution it's easier to ignore 15:02:49 <peter1138> wating 15:09:23 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@177.40.3.158] has joined #openttd 15:10:01 <Eddi|zuHause> that's what you do when you're up to your knees in water 15:11:43 *** lofejndif [~lsqavnbok@manning2.torservers.net] has joined #openttd 15:20:27 <MNIM> no, that would be wading. 15:20:29 <andythenorth> wat? 15:20:53 <andythenorth> also /me played YACD with RV stops patched to 5 tile catchments locally :P 15:24:58 *** roadt [~roadt@223.240.97.60] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:25:07 *** roadt_ [~roadt@223.240.97.60] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:25:22 <andythenorth> moving pax inside cities with YACD is a good challenge :D 15:27:13 *** _johannes_ [~johannes@HSI-KBW-095-208-007-101.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #openttd 15:27:52 <_johannes_> Hey, can I please get help? We wanted to setup a game with additional newgrf features, but now the default trains (including coal waggons) are missing. How to re-enable them? 15:29:04 *** roadt [~roadt@223.240.97.60] has joined #openttd 15:29:15 *** roadt_ [~roadt@223.240.97.60] has joined #openttd 15:31:23 *** Ristovski [~rafael@89.205.3.77] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:31:52 *** Ristovski [~rafael@89.205.3.77] has joined #openttd 15:32:08 <_johannes_> No one has an answer? 15:32:13 <_johannes_> Must be a simple question... 15:33:03 <Eddi|zuHause> which newgrf are you trying to use? 15:33:33 <andythenorth> afaik there's nothing you can do 15:33:40 <andythenorth> you need a new game 15:34:26 <_johannes_> yes 15:34:36 <_johannes_> I can start a new game, this is no problem 15:34:56 <_johannes_> but how do I start a new game with both newgrf trains and default trains? 15:35:32 <_johannes_> I want to use "Generic European Train Set (GES)" 15:36:15 <andythenorth> it probably disables default trains 15:36:17 <andythenorth> most sets do 15:36:41 <_johannes_> hmm why? 15:36:53 <andythenorth> because most train sets assume you want to replace default trains 15:37:10 <andythenorth> you could try adding OGFX+ trains 15:37:21 <andythenorth> it's pretty much a recreation of the default trains + some extra stuff 15:37:46 <andythenorth> I'm guessing your problem is that you are missing vehicles for some cargos? 15:38:02 <_johannes_> yes 15:38:09 <_johannes_> coal, for example 15:38:35 <andythenorth> that's a sign of an unfinished newgrf 15:38:41 <andythenorth> I wouldn't bother with it 15:38:45 <andythenorth> try something better 15:38:54 <andythenorth> it's probably subtly broken in other ways 15:39:10 <Eddi|zuHause> _johannes_: most newgrf sets have wagons that can be refitted to more than one cargo. 15:39:33 <Eddi|zuHause> so if you think "there is no wagon that loads coal", you might need to look closer 15:39:48 <Eddi|zuHause> e.g. whether the one that loads iron ore may be refitted to coal 15:40:16 <_johannes_> ok trying ogfx+ now 15:40:22 <Eddi|zuHause> (you need to do that in a depot) 15:40:37 <andythenorth> is there a good, finished, Euro train set? 15:40:40 <andythenorth> DB Set? 15:42:11 <Eddi|zuHause> what are your criteria for "good" or "finished"? 15:42:44 <Eddi|zuHause> the DBSet has some strange design choices, partially due to its age 15:43:13 <andythenorth> I think I mean 'coherent' and 'supports the most used industry newgrfs' 15:43:30 <andythenorth> also 'not ugly' 15:43:53 <Eddi|zuHause> the DBSet has certainly big problems with "supports industry sets" 15:44:17 <andythenorth> $someone should really make a Euro train set :P 15:44:54 * Eddi|zuHause whistles innocently 15:50:04 <andythenorth> IH will have Euro options 15:50:40 <andythenorth> likely a scandi version, a france/germany version, and some kind of mediterranean thing 15:51:41 <_johannes_> Hey, thanks andythenorth , Eddi|zuHause , it works! 16:09:20 *** flaa [~flaa@89.100.79.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:16:32 *** h [~h@197.195.99.236] has joined #openttd 16:18:59 <andythenorth> fonsinchen: to (not) answer your question - town cargos pose a problem 16:19:10 *** h [~h@197.195.99.236] has left #openttd [Leaving] 16:19:22 <andythenorth> having lots of destinations is horrible 16:19:31 <andythenorth> only having distribution is kind of odd :( 16:22:18 *** lofejndif [~lsqavnbok@82JAAAA3Y.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:43:47 *** Gethiox [~gethiox@acte28.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 17:05:04 *** Japa_ [~Japa@117.201.101.98] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:07:20 *** Japa [~Japa@117.201.101.98] has joined #openttd 17:15:26 *** Arr`Gone is now known as Arrgh 17:18:06 *** Jomann [~abchirk@f053040035.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 17:30:41 *** Arrgh is now known as Arr`Gone 17:48:50 *** Arr`Gone is now known as Arrgh 17:58:06 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-95-136.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 18:03:51 *** Arrgh is now known as Arr`Gone 18:03:58 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:18:17 *** retro|cz [~retro@ip-89-176-82-80.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 18:27:22 *** Hazzard [~oftc-webi@c-67-174-253-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 19:02:58 *** Taede [~Taede@cpc10-linl9-2-0-cust80.18-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:03:35 *** Taede [~Taede@cpc10-linl9-2-0-cust80.18-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 19:07:01 *** oskari892 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 19:12:49 *** roadt_ [~roadt@223.240.97.60] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:12:51 *** roadt [~roadt@223.240.97.60] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:13:33 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:15:26 *** adf89 [~Thunderbi@wis-zul.spine.pl] has quit [Quit: adf89] 19:22:09 *** Virtual- [~Virtual@46.7.241.30] has joined #openttd 19:30:02 *** Gethiox2 [~gethiox@acte90.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 19:35:50 *** Gethiox [~gethiox@acte28.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:43:22 <andythenorth> ok so (this is wrt FIRS, but probably applies elsewhere) 19:43:30 <andythenorth> destinations are more _realistic_ :P 19:43:46 <andythenorth> town cargos should be distributed in small volumes to many places 19:43:50 <andythenorth> using RVs etc 19:44:18 <andythenorth> but in most games I play, I just dump them, unrealistically, into industries with trains 19:44:29 <andythenorth> because routing lots of trucks individually is boring 19:45:22 <andythenorth> so what do we want to optimise for? :) 19:48:48 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@177.40.3.158] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:48:51 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@177.40.3.158] has joined #openttd 19:48:54 *** krinn [~krinn@199.196.74.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #openttd 19:49:13 <krinn> hi guys, passing by just to says devzone is sick 19:50:18 <frosch123> yup, since around 16:30 19:50:29 *** adf88 [~Thunderbi@46.204.13.158.dsl.dynamic.t-mobile.pl] has joined #openttd 19:52:33 <krinn> ok nothing new so 19:53:13 * andythenorth is making a FIRS change 19:53:18 <krinn> hg pull is also down, but must be link problem 19:53:21 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 19:53:35 <andythenorth> with compile time, this change will take until next week :D 19:55:13 <krinn> ccache is a badass, but it could be of help if well use 20:04:21 <peter1138> ? 20:06:44 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 20:06:47 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 20:07:07 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 20:08:44 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 20:13:54 *** oskari892 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:23:33 <andythenorth> ho ho 6 mins to compile FIRS 20:23:39 <andythenorth> making mistakes will be expensive :D 20:28:04 * andythenorth made a mistake :( 20:28:31 <peter1138> :) 20:38:43 <andythenorth> hmm 20:38:50 <andythenorth> matrix transforms in my head o_O 20:39:03 <Eddi|zuHause> that's easy 20:39:07 * andythenorth has one industry layout, rotated 4 times for different angles 20:39:16 <andythenorth> it's not hard, just requires care :P 20:39:28 <Eddi|zuHause> make a code generator 20:39:33 *** krinn [~krinn@199.196.74.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:39:33 <andythenorth> ho ho :) 20:39:58 <andythenorth> I think for this particular case, that is the absolute definition of over-engineering :) 20:40:09 *** Virtual- [~Virtual@46.7.241.30] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:40:43 *** Virtual- [~Virtual@46.7.241.30] has joined #openttd 20:41:29 <Eddi|zuHause> only if you use a "framework" instead of writing 10 lines of python cone 20:41:32 <Eddi|zuHause> *code 20:44:22 <__ln__> http://www.hastac.org/blogs/ari-schlesinger/2013/11/26/re-feminism-and-programming-languages 20:44:58 <andythenorth> it's an April Fools? 20:45:36 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:45:51 *** avdg [~avdg@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:45:55 *** Hirundo [~Hirundo@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:45:57 *** tneo [~tneo@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:45:57 *** ^Spike^ [~Spike@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:46:15 *** SmatZ- [~smatz@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:46:16 *** Terkhen [~Terkhen@0001612d.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:46:19 *** V453000 [~V453000@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:46:30 *** Ammler [~ammler@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:46:32 *** planetmaker [~planetmak@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:46:35 *** XeryusTC [~XeryusTC@000128e4.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:46:35 *** Yexo [~Yexo@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Write error: connection closed] 20:46:35 *** Osai [~Osai@0001294d.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:49:05 <andythenorth> it's not an April fools 20:51:39 <andythenorth> nor is this compile time sadly :( 20:52:18 <frosch123> maybe fools are timeless 20:59:06 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 21:04:50 *** Jomann [~abchirk@f053040035.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: What? Oh... cu!] 21:06:52 *** V453000 [~V453000@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 21:06:52 *** planetmaker [~planetmak@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 21:06:52 *** Yexo [~Yexo@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 21:06:52 *** XeryusTC [~XeryusTC@000128e4.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 21:06:55 *** mode/#openttd [+o planetmaker] by ChanServ 21:07:09 *** Zuu [~Zuu@gateway.sdr.org] has joined #openttd 21:07:22 *** tneo [~tneo@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 21:07:52 *** Hirundo [~Hirundo@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 21:07:56 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: didn't some guys at 4chan start an implementation, but github threw them out? 21:08:08 <Zuu> andythenorth: having lots of destinations but not perfect information about where (people) want to go is realistic :-) 21:08:22 *** SmatZ [~smatz@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 21:08:40 <Zuu> Though it can also be argued that having 4x4 zones or similar is also realistic. 21:08:52 *** Terkhen [~Terkhen@0001612d.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 21:08:55 *** mode/#openttd [+o Terkhen] by ChanServ 21:09:15 *** ^Spike^ [~Spike@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 21:09:29 *** djura-san [~djura-san@djura-san.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 21:09:32 <djura-san> ohai! 21:09:44 <Eddi|zuHause> wo? 21:09:52 *** avdg [~avdg@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 21:10:15 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 21:10:18 <andythenorth> another 6 minute mistake :P 21:10:23 *** Ammler [~ammler@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 21:10:52 *** Osai [~Osai@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 21:10:53 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: reimplement nmlc in c++ :) 21:10:59 <djura-san> so, what is the upper year number limit in openttd? 21:11:02 <andythenorth> he he 21:11:11 <andythenorth> or reimplement FIRS 21:11:15 <planetmaker> djura-san, 5000000 21:11:16 <andythenorth> one grf per industry 21:11:21 <Eddi|zuHause> djura-san: 5000000 21:11:24 <planetmaker> and even then it just doesn't count up 21:11:28 <andythenorth> or just use the compile time flag I made to only compile one industry :( 21:11:31 <andythenorth> silly /me 21:11:55 <djura-san> planetmaker & Eddi|zuHause : wow. I'm only at 4332 :> 21:12:37 <Eddi|zuHause> djura-san: someone once thought that 1920-2090 wasn't a good range, so they extended it 21:13:02 <Eddi|zuHause> to 0-5000000 21:13:16 <djura-san> Eddi|zuHause: Nice. That could give me a lot time to play 21:13:17 <djura-san> :> 21:14:10 <Zuu> And when you finnally reach year the maximum year, that year will cycle forever. 21:14:23 <andythenorth> ultimate daylength :D 21:14:29 <djura-san> also, i played a lot of this game offline and i noticed that it is virtually impossible to start tiny city and develop it. I tired to make something like 3x3 grid town and i was not able to stabilize it's economy. Still, i made some progress. 21:14:45 <peter1138> Hmm... who did that? 21:14:48 <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: dunno, but good news, they (or someone else) have a new home on bitbucket: https://bitbucket.org/FeministSoftwareFoundation/c-plus-equality 21:14:52 <djura-san> Zuu: \o/. Infinite game. i Like that because not i have a lot of money on a crappy build to experiment :) 21:15:31 <Zuu> Good luck on reaching year 5 000 000 :-) 21:15:35 <peter1138> It was always infinite. It just stays at the last year possible. 21:15:45 <djura-san> that is very good to hear. 21:16:19 <Zuu> (although it is actually quite easy to reach it - if you allow using the change year cheat) 21:16:23 <peter1138> We ruined TTD by turning it into a neverending sandbox... 21:16:53 <djura-san> Anyway, any good advices to develop small city with only busses maybe? I'm very interested to try this out. THe condition is to build only one city and build it road piece by road. 21:17:35 <Zuu> If you want to grow a town, have 5 stations with good service in the town. 21:17:40 <Eddi|zuHause> someone recently told me that TTD looped in 2070 21:17:58 <Zuu> If the town is in desert/snow you need to supply at least one unit of the required cargo each month. 21:18:17 <Eddi|zuHause> as far as i remember, i never went past 2030 (original TT end year) 21:19:27 <Zuu> And if you want some more interesting growth logic, there are currently 7 town growth related Game Scripts available through online content download. 21:20:06 <djura-san> Zuu: i wanna have full controll over the town growth. I made a big mistake with my first build: i got 2 towns (randomly generated), i made 2x2 train tracks and i stabilized it and let town build their own roads. THe result are crappy houses everywhere that ruined my symetry. I wanted to build samll town and force it to replace small houses with big ones. I managed to do that in a way but buses are still way to expenssive at the moment. 21:20:51 <djura-san> So i treid minimal thing: no industries, small town (<500) and growth controll. 21:21:29 <Eddi|zuHause> djura-san: there is a setting to turn off road construction for towns 21:21:38 <djura-san> But it is not going well so far. I managed to progress a little but not enough to make it stable (to earn money and dont loose it when i have to renew my buses) 21:21:50 <djura-san> Eddi|zuHause: i did that :) 21:22:14 <Eddi|zuHause> djura-san: but it will only build larger houses when there is a certain number of houses 21:22:35 <Eddi|zuHause> so the area with roads should not be too small 21:22:47 <djura-san> i see. Are there any numbers about this that i can see (other than source review)? 21:23:00 <andythenorth> ho ho a 2 min compile, with just 1 industry type 21:23:11 <Xaroth|Work> Eddi|zuHause: run nmlc with pypy ? 21:23:23 <Eddi|zuHause> Xaroth|Work: what 21:23:29 <Eddi|zuHause> 's that supposet to help? 21:23:37 <Xaroth|Work> pypy speeds python code up by a lot 21:23:55 <andythenorth> in some cases 21:24:00 <Xaroth|Work> most cases 21:24:24 <planetmaker> in this case... I might trust andy more :P 21:24:51 <Xaroth|Work> http://speed.pypy.org/ 21:25:13 <planetmaker> of course they want to sell it :) 21:25:37 <Eddi|zuHause> # du hast nie gelernt dich zu artikulieren 21:25:38 <Eddi|zuHause> # und deine Eltern hatten niemals fÃŒr dich Zeit 21:25:52 <Eddi|zuHause> # ohohooooh 21:26:11 <planetmaker> that is *so* old, Eddi|zuHause ;) 21:26:17 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 21:26:26 <planetmaker> also... "artizukulie-ieren" ;) 21:26:34 <andythenorth> Xaroth: test it? o_O 21:26:43 <andythenorth> get a FIRS checkout, tell us which is faster 21:27:34 <Xaroth|Work> might need to install nmlc first on this box, hm 21:28:31 <Eddi|zuHause> # du hast nie gelernt dich artizukulieren 21:28:50 <Eddi|zuHause> # und deine Freundin die hat niemals fÃŒr dich Zeit 21:30:57 *** KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 21:31:04 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: the artizu-... is only in the last refrain 21:35:42 *** skyem123 [~skyem123@cpc1-walt4-0-0-cust432.13-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:47:58 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 21:56:13 <andythenorth> 1 step closer to next FIRS release 21:56:18 * andythenorth time for bed 21:57:01 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 21:57:53 <Xaroth|Work> hm 21:58:02 <Xaroth|Work> nmlc is being annoying with imports 21:58:58 <Xaroth|Work> ah, much better 21:59:33 *** Progman [~progman@p57A197D9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 22:00:26 <planetmaker> what can be made better, Xaroth ? 22:00:40 <Xaroth|Work> planetmaker: me using the right version 22:00:52 <Xaroth|Work> the pip installed an older version 22:00:58 <Xaroth|Work> that imported PIL.Image wrong 22:01:07 <Xaroth|Work> nightly does so the right way 22:01:12 <planetmaker> he, ok :) 22:01:28 <planetmaker> yeah, time for 0.3.0 soonish 22:01:30 <Xaroth|Work> now i need FIRS 22:01:43 <Xaroth|Work> and some info on how that is compiled :o 22:01:48 <Xaroth|Work> or.. something that takes a while 22:02:03 <planetmaker> clone firs. And call make 22:02:49 <Eddi|zuHause> and then replace the config option to use pypy 22:02:49 <planetmaker> after one run of make you'll have a firs.nml in the main dir. which you then could pipe through nml w/o any other pre-processing 22:09:31 *** Ristovski [~rafael@89.205.3.77] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:13:44 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.164.39] has quit [] 22:14:12 <Xaroth|Work> andy should add something that bitches about missing libraries before it tries to spend a minute doing things :P 22:15:18 <planetmaker> :) 22:15:20 <planetmaker> pixa? 22:15:26 <planetmaker> or... 22:16:00 <Xaroth|Work> chameleon first, then markdown 22:16:03 <planetmaker> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/home/wiki/ManagingCF <-- some of the stuff mentioned there 22:18:32 <djura-san> oh, this utlimate buldozer can be usefull to obliterate cities :D 22:18:37 <djura-san> *ultimate 22:19:15 <Xaroth|Work> real 4m57.957s 22:19:15 <Xaroth|Work> user 4m33.913s 22:19:29 <Xaroth|Work> thats the first run 22:19:49 <planetmaker> nml caches stuff 22:20:58 *** adf88 [~Thunderbi@46.204.13.158.dsl.dynamic.t-mobile.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:22:13 *** _johanne1_ [~johannes@HSI-KBW-095-208-007-101.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #openttd 22:27:59 <Eddi|zuHause> that is one of the weirdest engines i've ever seen: http://www.drehscheibe-foren.de/foren/file.php?17,file=90097 22:28:38 <Eddi|zuHause> i should put it in CETS :p 22:29:01 *** _johannes_ [~johannes@HSI-KBW-095-208-007-101.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:29:11 <frosch123> night 22:29:15 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-5f741044.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 22:33:24 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:34:33 <Wolf01> 'night 22:34:36 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 22:35:06 *** GT [~GT@rt-scb-9f41.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 22:35:15 *** GT [~GT@rt-scb-9f41.adsl.online.nl] has left #openttd [] 22:42:15 <Xaroth|Work> ok, after caching: user 2m27.525s 22:42:19 <Xaroth|Work> now pypy 22:43:11 <Xaroth|Work> .. if that worked 22:50:30 *** retro|cz [~retro@ip-89-176-82-80.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:51:12 *** _johanne1_ [~johannes@HSI-KBW-095-208-007-101.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:07:35 *** Haube [~michi@77-20-40-44-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:07:55 *** Zuu [~Zuu@gateway.sdr.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:11:53 <Xaroth|Work> planetmaker: 23:11:57 <Xaroth|Work> python 2.7: 23:12:00 <Xaroth|Work> user 2m18.809s 23:12:02 <Xaroth|Work> pypy: 23:12:05 <Xaroth|Work> user 1m3.588s 23:12:54 <Xaroth|Work> a nice 50% speed increase right there 23:14:03 <Xaroth|Work> oddly enough, binary files differ 23:16:28 <LordAro> uh oh 23:16:36 <LordAro> ;) 23:17:25 <Xaroth|Work> doesn't have to be a bad thing though 23:17:59 <LordAro> but what could differ in the grf? 23:18:10 <Xaroth|Work> order of items? 23:18:25 <LordAro> order wouldn't affect the size of things, would it? 23:18:41 <Xaroth|Work> no, but it would yield diffs in the binary format 23:18:50 <LordAro> oh right 23:18:58 <LordAro> are they different sizes though? 23:19:16 <Xaroth|Work> nope 23:19:19 <Xaroth|Work> size is identical 23:19:24 <LordAro> probably alright then :) 23:19:32 <Xaroth|Work> 2 runs with python yield the same file, 2 runs with pypy yield the same file 23:19:40 <Xaroth|Work> but there's a binary diff between python and pypy 23:21:41 <Xaroth|Work> planetmaker: what one could do, is tweak the nml installer to install as nmlc-pypy when setting up through pypy .. then have the Makefile for the projects check between nmlc and nmlc-pypy 23:23:05 *** adf88 [~Thunderbi@wis-zul.spine.pl] has joined #openttd 23:23:09 <Xaroth|Work> then again, you can run the same nmlc file through pypy as long as you've installed it using pypy as well 23:23:27 <Xaroth|Work> (which is annoying as installing stuff for pypy tends to overwrite some files ..) 23:24:00 <Xaroth|Work> (making pip and easy_install install for pypy by default, for example, instead of making a pip-pypy2.2 (like it does a pip-2.7) ) 23:26:04 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:28:57 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@10.87.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #openttd 23:35:29 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.242] has joined #openttd 23:39:18 *** Progman [~progman@p57A197D9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:45:53 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit []