Log for #openttd on 21st March 2006:
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00:09:28  <RichK__> solved
00:09:40  <glx> great
00:10:04  <RichK__> unfortunately brianetta has gone, but there is always tomorrow
00:10:45  <RichK__> glx: do you want to try the scenario on your machine via PM
00:10:56  <glx> yes
00:11:00  <RichK__> UKRS?
00:11:11  <glx> if you want
00:11:27  <RichK__> ill just d/l the latest ukrs, hovs, viad
00:11:47  <glx> I take the files on brianetta's page
00:12:22  <RichK__> whats his page again?
00:12:34  <glx>
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00:16:57  <RichK__> ok... done... PM?
00:17:14  <glx> mail directly
00:17:23  <glx>
00:17:37  <RichK__> okies
00:17:44  <glx> it's faster :)
00:18:03  <RichK__> yup
00:21:15  <RichK__> ok , sent
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00:21:35  <glx> received :)
00:21:53  <RichK__> cool
00:23:30  <glx> it seems fixed
00:23:59  <RichK__> yeah, i had found the line that did it... i could switch it on/off as a CTD
00:25:26  <RichK__> do you think the map edge is crinkly enough?
00:25:56  <glx> !whatis crinkly
00:25:58  <jmp_ghli> >glx> Crinkly \Crin"kly\ (-kl?), a. Having crinkles; wavy; wrinkly.  crinkly adj : having wrinkles or waves
00:26:25  <RichK__> uneven, irregular
00:26:29  <glx> yes
00:26:46  <RichK__> would it be better if there were fewer edge cliffs?
00:26:51  <glx> looks "natural"
00:26:55  <RichK__> cool :)
00:27:44  <glx> wow AI started to play on it :)
00:28:26  <RichK__> yeah ... it will have fun terraforming... (just think what its like mountainous!!)
00:28:30  <DarkSSH> got pics? :)
00:28:53  <RichK__> tens of thousands... im a photographer ;)
00:29:00  <DarkSSH> ..
00:29:31  <RichK__> easier to send the scn... you cant get the full idea in a screenie
00:29:49  <RichK__> btw... 512x512 took about 2.5secs to generate
00:31:15  <DarkSSH> don't have ottd here
00:31:24  <DarkSSH> at least not in a runnable form
00:32:00  <RichK__> ok, ill grab a few 1024x768s... post in the terragen perlin thread
00:32:04  * glx should not take giant screenshot of 512x512 with his 233MHz
00:32:17  <glx> takes too long :P
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00:33:28  <RichK__> hmm... 43Mb screenie
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00:40:00  <RichK__> darkssh: screenies posted in thread
00:41:18  <glx> give the link, it's easier
00:41:38  <RichK__>
00:42:57  <RichK__> desert terrain on mountainous is way cool... i put in a cosine wave into the terrain, so it starts high in the mountains, fades to a desert valley bottom, and then rises back to mountains again
00:43:26  <DarkSSH> what's the red-tiles in #2?
00:43:37  <RichK__> its the latest bug-ette
00:43:42  <DarkSSH> highlight invalid tiles? :)
00:44:00  <RichK__> huh?
00:44:13  <DarkSSH> MP_VOID
00:44:16  <DarkSSH> looking nice
00:44:24  <DarkSSH> if I may nitpick :P
00:44:40  <glx> it's in OpenTTD
00:44:43  <RichK__> sure... i need feedback
00:45:06  <DarkSSH> 1. what would be cool if the terrain were a bit more random, eg more random small bumps, depressions. I think it would make it a lot more realistic-looking
00:45:44  <RichK__> set smoothness to "very rough"... your wish is granted
00:45:47  <DarkSSH> 2. on the tropical map try and put oases next to water (eg desert right next to the coast looks a bit weird most of the time). And the mountains should be really rought
00:45:52  <DarkSSH> -t
00:46:30  <RichK__> ahh... 2.  do you mean put trees next to water?
00:46:51  <DarkSSH> well, possible, but don't set the desert bit there :)
00:46:56  <RichK__> many deserts go right up to the coast
00:47:08  <DarkSSH> I think the original TTD does this
00:47:42  <DarkSSH> it's too bad we don't have desert-coast-gfx though
00:47:45  <DarkSSH> looks really weird
00:47:56  <DarkSSH> oh he, damn 2AM :(
00:48:00  <RichK__> yeah, a bit
00:48:10  <RichK__> yeah, id better crawl off too
00:48:28  <DarkSSH> gn peeps. I'll talk to ya tomorrow about airports :)
00:48:44  <RichK__> lol... mercy!
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00:50:28  <RichK__> cya all
00:50:35  <glx> bye
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04:24:01  <EternalDecoy> hey, im in a game right now, and nothing is getting put in any of my stations...
04:24:20  <EternalDecoy> anyone know why?...
04:24:27  * LadyHawk is away (auto away after 30 mins idle)
04:24:45  <EternalDecoy> can anyone help me?
04:30:28  <Vornicus> Before things show up at stations, vehicles must arrive that can carry that cargo.
04:31:46  <EternalDecoy> alright, just found that
04:32:18  <EternalDecoy> and how come oil refineries, the part with the big tanks dont count for giving the acceptance for stations?
04:32:29  <Vornicus> because it sucks.
04:32:52  <EternalDecoy> lol
04:33:04  <EternalDecoy> found it a bit annoying...
04:33:37  <Vornicus> oil refineries and power plants I think are the only two industries that do not accept cargo everywhere.  Power plants it's not too bad because most places still accept.  Oil refineries, on the other hand, you must cover the towers with the flames on the top.
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04:34:12  <Vornicus> turn on "show coverage areas" in the stations helper dialog, and watch the "accepts:" line there.
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04:57:43  <EternalDecoy> what're the waypoints for?
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07:43:27  <Tron> Celestar: ?
07:43:48  <woodwizzle> Hello
07:44:20  <woodwizzle> I'm planning on creating a linux liveCD preloaded with what I believe are the best linux games
07:44:43  <woodwizzle> I would like to include OpenTTD, but I don't know how this would be possible
07:45:26  <woodwizzle> is TTD officially abandonware? Can I include the data off of my original CD? Or is there an alternate dataset that has no legal issues?
07:50:56  * woodwizzle pokes around
07:50:59  <woodwizzle> anyone alive in here =)
07:52:35  <peter1138> no and no
07:52:43  <peter1138> and no
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07:55:36  <TL|Away> "officially abandonware" <- that is a new one :)
07:56:28  <peter1138> :)
07:57:06  <TL|Away> woodwizzle: there still isn't such things as "officially abandonware". If something is official free to use, it is called freeware
07:57:14  <TL|Away> all abandonware are still considered illegal for most countries
07:57:20  <TL|Away> until court says otherwise
07:57:38  <TL|Away> The term has no legal meaning. This means that labeling any kind of software 'abandonware' does not make it legal to distribute it. Unless the author puts the software in the public domain, any and all abandonware remains covered under copyright law until its copyright term expires.
07:57:38  <woodwizzle> that is such a bummer.
07:57:44  <TL|Away>
07:57:56  <TL|Away> know what words mean before using ;)
07:58:29  <woodwizzle> What is in those data files? just graphics and music?
07:58:35  <TL|Away> yup
07:58:57  <TL|Away> In 2001, the ESA (or IDSA, as it was called then) began threatening lawsuits on sites that enabled illegal downloading of games belonging to its members. This resulted in many sites shutting down altogether.
07:59:43  <TL|Away> and TTD isn't given free to the public
07:59:59  <TL|Away> so sorry, bad luck, but OpenTTD needs the data-files, and the data-files are still under copyright protection
08:00:13  <woodwizzle> I own TTD and the original TT, but both CDs are scratched bad enough that I couldn't retrieve the data from them, so I got my data files from online. That is acceptable since i already own them sin't it?
08:00:22  <TL|Away> (although some people (even in here) claim it is no problem, and most likely nobody will ever get sued for it, it still is illegal)
08:01:08  <TL|Away> woodwizzle: strangely enough, what you did enters a whole other problems in illegal wares: downloading isn't illegal
08:01:10  <TL|Away> uploading is
08:01:37  <TL|Away> and this is one of the things I really do not get... but thatis what the law says :s
08:01:44  <peter1138> s/uploading/making available/
08:02:10  <TL|Away> peter1138: yeah :)
08:02:14  <woodwizzle> TL|Away, I suppose it is because you are making it possible for others to 'steal' it even if you are uploading it
08:02:19  <peter1138> don't forget all the different laws in different countries ;p
08:02:37  <peter1138> in some it may well be illegal to download
08:02:57  <Tobin> "but thatis what the law says " <--- That depends on which country you're in IIRC.
08:02:58  <woodwizzle> if you are downloading though, you may have good reason. Still I think they way it should be would be legal to upload or download if you own, and illegal otherwise
08:03:04  <Tobin> peter1138: You beat me to it. ;)
08:03:04  <TL|Away> woodwizzle: but that downloading itself is legal... (okay, in most countries that is).. it is like buying a cheap hifi-set, knowing it is stolen
08:03:25  <peter1138> TL|Away: that's illegal in the UK ;)
08:03:30  <TL|Away> woodwizzle: that aint true :) You can not, and may not, distrubute it in _any_ way
08:03:35  <Tobin> woodwizzle: You can often get TTD on e-bay for quite cheap.
08:03:36  <woodwizzle> All then new code in the OpenTTD project, is that GPL?
08:03:38  <TL|Away> peter1138: that is illegal everywhere!
08:03:44  <TL|Away> but downloading wares isn't?!
08:04:12  <woodwizzle> hold on, whats illegal everywhere?
08:04:12  <TL|Away> woodwizzle: the code is released under GPL yes
08:04:19  <TL|Away> woodwizzle: buying that hifi
08:04:24  <peter1138> hehe
08:04:31  <woodwizzle> oh ok hehe
08:04:41  <Tobin> Hmmm.
08:04:41  <TL|Away> [09:03:02] <TL|Away> woodwizzle: but that downloading itself is legal... (okay, in most countries that is).. it is like buying a cheap hifi-set, knowing it is stolen, which is illegal
08:04:45  <TL|Away> I forgot to add something :)
08:04:51  <woodwizzle> So for the sake of argument...
08:05:04  <woodwizzle> if i were to create all new sound effects and graphics
08:05:05  <Tobin> AU  for TTD + Railroad Tycoon 3 on ebay.
08:05:41  <peter1138> you'd be there for a long time
08:05:49  <woodwizzle> and include them instead. Would OpenTTD be just as free and open as say wesnoth and any other GPL software?
08:06:45  <TL|Away> woodwizzle: yes, with a small sidenote: the main source-code of OpenTTD is reversed engineerd. Nowedays most code is rewritten, but it has to be said that in the court of law, it is doubtful if it would stand. But, that are tiny details, you can safely assume that you can then freely distribute the game
08:07:04  <TL|Away> also remember that OpenTTD itself is free and open, it is GPL. Just you need some data-files ;)
08:08:03  <TL|Away> (legallity is such a painful subject :()
08:08:54  <woodwizzle> I suppose contacting the original creators and begging them to release the data has already been tried =)
08:09:18  <TL|Away> yup
08:09:20  <TL|Away> several times
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08:09:33  <TL|Away> anyway, off for a while
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08:09:36  <woodwizzle> no response? or have they said absolutely not
08:09:38  <TL|Away> woodwizzle: good luck :)
08:09:48  <TL|Away> the author of the graphics said he couldn't do anything about the copyright
08:09:58  <TL|Away> the rest... lack of response I Believe yes
08:10:10  <TL|Away> I believe Micropose itself it dead? Can't remember....
08:10:43  <TL|Away> bbl, 1 hour
08:14:36  <peter1138> yes
08:14:46  <peter1138> probably owned by atari
08:15:02  <woodwizzle> do we know if and when the copyright will expire?
08:16:13  <woodwizzle> I suppose the best and only solution then is to create all new graphics. It seems a daunting task but not entirely impossible if a small cadre attempted it
08:18:36  <Prof_Frink> woodwizzle: Actually, if you got permission from the appropriate TTDPatch graphic authors you'd be pretty much there
08:18:53  <woodwizzle> TTDPatch?
08:19:03  <Prof_Frink> yes.
08:20:33  <woodwizzle> I thought ttdpatch was a project similar to openttd? free code and the same old graphics?
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08:21:03  <Prof_Frink> Yes, but there are extra graphics packs made for it
08:21:40  <woodwizzle> Ah, so I could use the extra graphics pack as a starting point
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08:21:47  <woodwizzle> and then just fill in the missing graphics
08:22:04  <Prof_Frink> yeah
08:22:19  <woodwizzle> not a bad idea, i'll look into it
08:22:21  <Prof_Frink> I think the main things that are missing are industires
08:22:40  <woodwizzle> ever played simutrans?
08:23:00  <Prof_Frink> There's certanly roadsets, landscapes, trainsets, the planeset, RVsets...
08:23:09  <Prof_Frink> Not for any length of time
08:23:32  <woodwizzle> Perhaps their graphics could be used instead?
08:23:34  <Prof_Frink> I never got into it, I kept trying to play it like TTD
08:23:56  <Prof_Frink> The problem with that is palette
08:24:13  <woodwizzle> and resolution
08:24:19  <woodwizzle> i'm sure the tiles are different sized
08:25:12  <woodwizzle> in fact, if I were to attempt redrawing ALL of ttd's graphics, i'd probably want to double or perhaps quadruple the resolution anyway to get better zooming on todays hi-res monitors
08:25:35  <Patrick`> woodwizzle: yep, problem is that the graphics are, well, fan-made
08:26:11  <Patrick`> I don't mean it as an offense, but something with such achingly beautiful hand-crafted pixels can never be replaced by a few isolateral polygons in gimp
08:26:33  <woodwizzle> Patrick`, I totally disagree with that
08:26:45  <Patrick`> lemme guess, you're an artist
08:26:54  <woodwizzle> Sure those graphics arn't nearly as good as the much older ttd graphics
08:27:03  <woodwizzle> but take a look at battle for wesnoth.
08:27:07  <Patrick`> yep, so I'll stick to dropping files in
08:27:23  <woodwizzle> Those are gorgeous pixel graphics done by nothing but volunteers
08:27:41  <Patrick`> that's a game with wide-scale appeal
08:27:50  <woodwizzle> the trick is getting a couple of artists, and sticking to a set of style guidelines
08:27:56  <Patrick`> I think there are enough newgrf to build a playable game
08:28:02  <Patrick`> "mars" enviroment or something
08:28:06  <Patrick`> but the problem is the sound
08:28:12  <Patrick`> it will run without it, but ...
08:28:36  <woodwizzle> Yeah, sound would be the biggest problem. That might be easier to get from simutrans though
08:28:42  <Prof_Frink> but .grf s can contain sounds now
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08:28:53  <woodwizzle> still, airports and such would need new sounds
08:28:54  <Patrick`> ssh
08:29:13  <woodwizzle> perhaps i could get some airplane noises from some freeware flight sims
08:29:25  <Patrick`> every few months I bring it up
08:29:27  <Prof_Frink> So you just do what oTTD's good at, stealing PatchFeatures ;p
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08:29:36  <Patrick`> creative commons sounds? people go meh
08:29:40  <Patrick`> if you want to try, go for it
08:29:44  <Patrick`> I'll be first in line
08:30:21  <woodwizzle> Well, its a big task. And only part of a bigger task that I initially set out to do whichi is create a liveCD distro
08:30:34  <Patrick`> so the answer to your question is technically no.
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08:30:47  <Patrick`> heard of UQM?
08:30:54  <Patrick`> it's not my thing but people are crazy about it
08:31:35  <woodwizzle> yup, i've gotten sort of far in it. I like the story and parts of the gameplay, but the combat system is pretty bad
08:31:48  <Patrick`> buy more upgrades
08:31:55  <Patrick`> there's one that makes your weapons seek
08:32:03  <Patrick`> and don't bother with fan, rear, or side
08:32:07  <woodwizzle> no its not that, its just reckless a wierd and a little too fast
08:32:20  <Patrick`> you never played asteroids as a kid?
08:32:21  <Patrick`> for shame
08:32:27  <Patrick`> also; don't dawdle, there's a time limit
08:32:48  <Patrick`> I did and it sucked, especially in a game where the purpose is to discover things
08:32:53  <Patrick`> the replay value is minimal
08:32:55  <woodwizzle> I'm thinking of including UQM in my cd as well. but it may be too big
08:33:06  <Patrick`> take out the voice samples then
08:33:14  <woodwizzle> Thats the best part though!!!
08:33:20  <Patrick`> music then
08:33:31  <woodwizzle> it would be so tedious reading ALL of that when playing a game
08:33:54  <woodwizzle> I may just see if I can make a LiveDVD instead, I'd expect my target audience (windows gamers) to have DVD drives
08:34:20  <Patrick`> anyway, I thought there were some off-the-shelf gaming livecds you could just tweak
08:34:43  <Patrick`> maybe find one of those quake/quake 2/quake 3 open graphics sets as well, eh?
08:35:14  <woodwizzle> Patrick`, there are. But my aim is totally different than those. They mostly try to cram as much games on one disc. I wan't to just include the creme de la creme
08:35:26  <Patrick`> freespace 2
08:35:38  <Patrick`> it wasnae too bad when I played it
08:35:53  <woodwizzle> That way instead of using blackbox and giving them a bad impression of linux, I can use gnome with beagle and other wonderful things that'll show off linux
08:36:03  <Patrick`> and xgl!
08:36:08  <woodwizzle> exactly!
08:36:12  <Patrick`> I'd guess most gamers have access to a good video card
08:36:18  <Patrick`> just a guess
08:36:38  <Patrick`> also: wine plus redistributable freeware?
08:37:14  <woodwizzle> My goal is toofold. I want to attract gamers in particular so that they are exposed to linux and perhaps at least a very little bit it would be a catalyst to the gaming industry taking notice of linux
08:37:16  <Patrick`> or do you aim for ideological purity
08:37:35  <Patrick`> maybe a "look at this, this windows game demo runs fine in wine"
08:37:42  <woodwizzle> No, I plan on including any proprietary software that I can legally.
08:37:43  <Tron> <Patrick`> music then <-- that's the best part
08:37:59  <Tron> <woodwizzle> it would be so tedious reading ALL of that when playing a game <-- i did that with the original, because there was no spoken text
08:38:05  <Patrick`> woodwizzle: in fact, ut2004 demo?
08:38:46  <woodwizzle> Patrick`, I don't really want to include those because they are already available on windows and the linux version can't compete with them
08:38:58  <Patrick`> other than "performance increases"
08:39:06  <Patrick`> test to see which ones get the most faster :D
08:39:23  <Tron> instead of talking and talking and talking you could start a complete replacement set for the graphics
08:39:24  <woodwizzle> most of the time windows wins, just because thats what it was developed for
08:39:27  <Patrick`> woodwizzle: see, the openttd files are a bit of an interesting area, because the current copyright holder doesn't even acknowledge that they have copyright (after sequential buyouts)
08:39:33  <Patrick`> but they might, one day
08:39:40  <Tron> no matter how cheap they are, it would be a very good start to attract others to improve it
08:39:43  <Tron> it just has to work
08:39:56  <Patrick`> well, what are the problems with using ttdpatch grfs ?
08:40:04  <Tron> they aren't grfs
08:40:07  <Patrick`> ah
08:40:08  <Tron> it's a total misnomer
08:40:21  <Patrick`> well, find the ones that were creative-commons'd
08:40:31  <Tron> the game grfs just are a big array of sprites, nothing more
08:40:44  <Patrick`> and the ttdpatch ones have extra information
08:41:28  <Tron> newgrfs have pratically nothing in common except they can include graphics, too, but they come always in conjunction with control commands, something which simply doesn't exist in the "real" grfs
08:42:29  <Patrick`> hmm
08:42:46  <Patrick`> and I assume the license is such that we can't pull them apart or even include them without permission
08:42:57  <Patrick`> and we've already asked
08:43:21  <woodwizzle> so in other words?
08:43:46  <Patrick`> no.
08:44:01  <woodwizzle> if i created all the new graphx, I couldn't provide them in the correct format without using some of the original ttd data?
08:44:09  <Tron> just draw about five- to sixthousand cheap sprites
08:44:10  <Patrick`> oh, no, it's possible
08:44:17  <Patrick`> just do what tron said
08:44:41  <Patrick`> there might be some work done on it already, check the forums
08:46:28  <Tron> <woodwizzle> if i created all the new graphx, I couldn't provide them in the correct format without using some of the original ttd data? <--- i don't understand what you mean
08:47:19  <woodwizzle> Tron, prolly my fault because I didn't understand what you were talking about either, and I was asking you to sum it up for me =)
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08:47:57  <woodwizzle> about ttd graphxs being a misnomer
08:49:28  <Tron> no, i said the term "patch grf" is a misnomer
08:49:52  <Tron> so called "newgrfs" have almost nothing in common with the original TTD graphics files
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08:50:27  <Patrick`> woodwizzle: so tell me more about sources of creative commons sounds for transport...
08:50:41  <Patrick`> woodwizzle: I might just put together a pack
08:50:56  <Patrick`> (or other suitable license)
08:51:52  <woodwizzle> Patrick, well I dunno about Creative Commons sounds, however I know of a number of GPL games with included sounds that could work
08:52:30  <woodwizzle> Simutrans has trucks and trains and dynamite and probably 60-80% of the sounds we would need
08:53:03  <woodwizzle>
08:53:29  <woodwizzle> that is a gpl flight sim where you fly commercial jets. Sounds for jets could be gotten there
08:54:32  <woodwizzle> can't remeber if simutrans has boats... i think so
08:55:34  <woodwizzle> simutrans is freeware though, not open source. I know the creator likes giving his game away but is very very touchy about letting others see his code. I don't know if that extends to the use of his media though.
08:55:40  <woodwizzle> Would prolly have to ask hime
08:55:48  <woodwizzle> for permission
08:56:53  <Prof_Frink> It's good to ask permissions anyway, even if the license specifically allows it
08:56:55  <DarkSSH> nah, prissi is a nice guy
08:57:08  <DarkSSH> morning all
08:57:17  <woodwizzle> true
08:57:18  <woodwizzle> aight, gotta get some shut-eye thanks for your help
08:57:45  <DarkSSH> he, what's with all the red pulsating tiles? :p
08:59:10  <Patrick`> simutrans it is
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09:02:32  <peter1138> DarkSSH: Celestar :)
09:02:37  <peter1138> DarkSSH: Belugas_Gone has a patch
09:02:44  <Patrick`> maybe if we asked the simutrans guy nicely we could use his graphics as well
09:03:01  <Prof_Frink> Patrick`: You mean swap?
09:03:15  <Prof_Frink> There's a TTD-graphics pack for simutrans ;)
09:03:20  <Patrick`> heh
09:03:30  <Patrick`> well, why not then
09:03:43  <DarkSSH> peter1138: I've seen it but it only adds a few more inavlid_tile's insterad of 0's
09:04:37  <DarkSSH> and we DO  need to distinguish between error-tiles an end-of-world
09:05:54  <peter1138> ...
09:07:22  * DarkSSH throws a random piece
09:07:31  <DarkSSH> signal-bug ^^
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09:07:52  <DarkSSH> peter1138: did you decide which one to use yet? :)
09:07:59  <tron_> DarkSSH: just back out celestar's last change to viewport.c and it should be ok again
09:07:59  <DarkSSH> morning tron_
09:08:11  <tron_> morning
09:09:20  <DarkSSH> I'll let cel handle it, perhaps he already has something to continue on
09:09:34  <tron_> does anybody have an idea why GetSlopeZ_TunnelBridge is so uber-complicated?
09:09:50  <DarkSSH> bridges are complicated
09:09:58  <tron_> i have a rewrite which is ...
09:10:09  <tron_> a bit more than half as long
09:10:27  <tron_> which just removes most of the special cases
09:10:30  <DarkSSH> donnu, there were a lot of probs with correct z-calc and slopes, foundations
09:12:53  <tron_> there's a annoyance with tile selection under bridges
09:13:00  <tron_> especially under high bridges
09:13:20  <tron_> the cause are exactly these complicated special handling
09:13:20  <tron_> s
09:14:26  <tron_> if the cursors points near the center of a tile below a bridge the wrong tile (normally one too low) gets selected
09:14:45  <CIA-5> Darkvater * r3994 /trunk/unix.c: - Fix: convert filenames to UTF-8-MAC instead of UTF-8 for MACOSX, because that's what it uses. This is no real fix for the current iconv hack but it should at least work properly
09:15:00  <Patrick`> whatever happened to maprewrite
09:15:31  <tron_> that's because in this case the function returns a z value on the bridge and with this input the newton iteration in viewport.c goes bonkers
09:15:31  <DarkSSH> tron_: can't hardly wait for bridgerewrite :)
09:17:12  <tron_> DarkSSH: i haven't worked on it for several days /:
09:17:34  <tron_> i can give you a version in which trains are a bit able to drive over bridges
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09:19:25  <DarkSSH> damn the function is complicted
09:19:27  <tron_> <--- are there any problems with this?
09:19:36  <tron_> DarkSSH: GetSlopeZ_TunnelBridge?
09:19:48  <peter1138> those bridges rock
09:19:58  <tron_> which bridges?
09:20:11  <peter1138> the "tunnel hack" ones
09:20:12  <DarkSSH> tron_: yes
09:20:55  <tron_> DarkSSH: well, compare with my diff and test it
09:20:55  <DarkSSH> hmm wouldn't it be better to return if tnuuule and just continue instead of ekse? svaes a tab :p
09:21:42  * peter1138 ponders sigbug.diff, as it's a little more efficient over sigbug2.diff
09:21:53  <peter1138> hmm
09:21:56  <peter1138> i need to start a program
09:22:02  <peter1138> however, i've totally forgotten what...
09:22:42  <DarkSSH> tron_: are you sure that switch is correct in switch (GetBridgeRampDirection(tile)) {?
09:23:03  <DarkSSH> delta is always delta = (15 - y) / 2;
09:23:28  <DarkSSH> I think some breaks are in order
09:25:03  <tron_> *sigh* i changed that several times, there were returns at some point
09:26:00  <DarkSSH> sorry gus, gotta run.. wr0k. Perhaps I'll find an ssh conn at this plae :)
09:26:22  <tron_> DarkSSH: new diff
09:26:37  <tron_> DarkSSH: find a non-broken keyboard first ^^
09:28:40  <tron_> peter1138: if you find a bit spare time it would be great if you investigate how to make them work a bit more
09:38:45  <Celestar> back
09:39:17  <Celestar> anyone from spain here? :P
09:41:01  <tron_> Celestar: please revert the change to viewport.c
09:44:09  <CIA-5> celestar * r3995 /trunk/viewport.c: -Fix: Committed one file too much in 3992 (Thanks to Tron for pointing it out)
09:44:15  <Celestar> sorry.
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10:10:18  * tron_ waits for the result of a DB query
10:10:46  <tron_> will probably take 40 minutes or so
10:11:28  <tron_> the average mobile phone today has more RAM than the machine this Oracle is running on
10:12:25  <Celestar> lol
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10:14:46  <Celestar> I have 32MB in my phone.
10:15:00  <Celestar> < asymptote> headers are the appropriate place for static & global variables
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10:21:17  <guru3-mobile> loes
10:21:39  * guru3-mobile is bored
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11:14:44  <Patrick`> Celestar: hahaha
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11:24:33  <peter1138> hmm
11:28:44  <tron_> Celestar: i'm not entierly sure, but that machine has about that much RAM
11:30:03  <DarkSSH> 10:26 < tron_> DarkSSH: find a non-broken keyboard first ^^ <-- I usually wake up, blindly try and reach for the laptop, boot it and then try to type hanging from the bed with one hand on my stomach
11:30:08  <DarkSSH> let me tell you...not an easy job :P
11:31:31  <LadyHawk> if it's a laptop, why not make it easy and put it on ur lap
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11:32:07  <DarkSSH> LadyHawk: because I am lying on my stomach
11:32:19  <DarkSSH> too much trouble to turn over, sit up and fry my genitals
11:37:02  <MiHaMiX> lol
11:37:38  <LadyHawk> DarkSSH is the typical 'why make it easy if there's a hard way' person
11:37:57  <MiHaMiX> LadyHawk: :D
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11:41:53  <LadyHawk> :p
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11:50:14  <Celestar> back
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13:14:59  <DarkSSH> for anyone familiar with databases: what do you think is more efficient for entering a unique username?
13:15:10  <DarkSSH> 1. getting the username checking if it exists and if not adding it
13:15:11  <DarkSSH> or
13:15:23  <DarkSSH> 2. making use of foreign keys and trap the exception if it is violated
13:15:25  <DarkSSH> (Java btw)
13:17:23  <Mukke> I'd say check if it exists
13:17:31  <Mukke> expcetion handling is expensive compared to other stuff
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13:18:01  <Mukke> obviously you will have to do it in a transaction, though
13:18:03  <DarkSSH> java pratically lives off of exception handling :)
13:18:43  <DarkSSH> Mukke: why? If I just insert a single user and it fails because of constrains there is no transaction needed. But for multiple, yes would be handy
13:18:49  <MagicJohn> Hehe, why not.,
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13:19:08  <Mukke> you will need a transaction if doing 1.
13:19:44  <DarkSSH> no I don't
13:19:51  <DarkSSH> getting username is just a select
13:20:02  <Mukke> surely you do...
13:20:11  <Mukke> 1a: check if exists
13:20:14  <Mukke> 1b: insert
13:20:32  <Mukke> what if another transaction adds it between 1a and 1b
13:20:52  <DarkSSH> ah
13:20:54  <DarkSSH> point taken
13:21:16  <peter1138> rely on the exception, and hope no-one takes the constraint off...
13:22:10  <DarkSSH> argumentation?
13:27:16  <tron_> DarkSSH: your database is exactly designed to check contraints
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13:31:30  <DarkSSH> ok, so exception
13:32:08  <DarkSSH> thx
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14:07:26  <DarkSSH> wtf is the 'continue'-s equivalent in VBScript for loops?
14:08:48  <blathijs> hmm, don't remember I think...
14:09:33  <DarkSSH> stupid shitty fucklanguage
14:09:33  <DarkSSH> h243
14:09:36  <DarkSSH> 5123uj4
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14:20:43  <peter1138> does it have one?
14:20:54  <peter1138> you probably need a lot of if statements...
14:32:04  <DarkSSH> couldnt find it :(
14:32:05  <DarkSSH> bha
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15:17:38  <MiHaMiX> TL|Away: ping
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15:27:17  <MeusH> hello
15:27:25  <MeusH> MiHaMiX: are you there?
15:30:42  <MiHaMiX> MeusH: no, I'm here :D
15:30:56  <MiHaMiX> MeusH: i can't see anything special on your last url
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15:36:56  <tron_> tp:// <--- more slope graphics glitches
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15:37:05  <tron_> <--- more slope graphics glitches
15:40:32  <Vornicus> what am I looking for?
15:40:47  <MeusH> MiHaMiX: that button?
15:40:52  <MeusH> me too, that was stupid
15:41:45  <SimonRC> Am I imagining it, or are the sheep and horse sound effects in OTTD exactly the same as some of those in AoE2?
15:42:34  <Vornicus> ....agh
15:42:46  <Vornicus> my build is even more fucked up than I thought...
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15:43:49  <Vornicus> is the nightly...
15:43:55  * Vornicus can't load a game!
15:43:56  <SimonRC> oooo dear
15:44:49  <SimonRC> The solution to that is not to write large complex applications in C.
15:44:54  * SimonRC ducks.
15:47:29  <Vornicus> what revision is 0.4.5 anyway?
15:49:14  <SimonRC> Was the OTTD AI copied from the original AI somehow?
15:52:08  <LadyHawk> o_O
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15:55:24  <Patrick`> Vornicus: ...
15:55:30  <Patrick`> Vornicus: vornucis of schlock?
15:55:32  <Patrick`> or am I confused
15:55:46  <Patrick`> SimonRC: openttd revision 1 was just the original ttd fed through a decompiler
15:55:52  <Patrick`> the original AI *is* the original AI
15:57:31  <tron_> Patrick`: no decompiler was involved
15:58:00  <Patrick`> tron_: oh?
15:58:04  <Patrick`> how did that work then
15:58:57  <blathijs> tron_: I think a disassembler was involved, right? :-)
15:59:08  <Patrick`> that's what I meant
16:01:28  <SimonRC> Patrick`: Yuk!
16:02:16  <SimonRC> This means that any fundamental architectural decisions the TTD team made are still in there.
16:02:29  <SimonRC> Yuk x 2!
16:03:08  <SimonRC> Didn't the original license say "no decompiling"?
16:03:20  <Patrick`> SimonRC: probably
16:03:24  <Patrick`> SimonRC: god knows
16:03:33  <Patrick`> the current copyright owners deny they are
16:03:38  <Patrick`> (successive buyouts)
16:03:42  <Patrick`> so, who knows
16:03:45  <SimonRC> How much has been rewritten?
16:04:02  <Patrick`> >90%, but someone who knows what they're talking about should back me up on this
16:04:13  <Patrick`> I remember an old discussion on this, the original AI and pathfinder were the same
16:04:43  <SimonRC> This also explains why it is in C.
16:04:49  <Patrick`> the money isn't a signed 32-bit integer any more
16:04:52  <Patrick`> which is good
16:04:55  <SimonRC> heh
16:05:00  <Patrick`> "hooray! 2 billion pounds!"
16:05:07  <Patrick`> everything goes RED
16:05:13  <Patrick`> my first TTD game was like that
16:05:19  * SimonRC builds a 126-mile-long tunnel.
16:05:28  <Patrick`> mile? how'd you figure?
16:05:32  <SimonRC> how big is a "square" supposed to be *anyway*?
16:05:36  <Patrick`> it varies
16:05:42  <Patrick`> depending on the usage
16:05:48  <SimonRC> eh?
16:05:51  <Patrick`> 10km for cargo transport, about 20m for train sprites
16:06:04  <Patrick`> for gradient in realistic acceleration, probably something else
16:06:16  <SimonRC> qah, ok
16:06:19  <Patrick`> for doing maps of the world, varies again (check out the africa scenario)
16:06:23  <SimonRC> TTDINRL
16:06:26  <Vornicus> Patrick`: The same.
16:06:31  <Patrick`> crikey
16:06:35  <Patrick`> how'd you end up here then
16:06:53  <Patrick`> in fact, it's been ages since I stuck my head in to say hi
16:07:04  <SimonRC> I guessed the channel was here
16:07:06  * Vornicus likes ottd.
16:07:12  <Mukke> hmm.. Imagine a huge map with thousand of simultaneous players :)
16:07:17  * Vornicus isn't any good at it, though.
16:07:28  <Mukke> a true-scale map
16:07:38  <SimonRC> I have just thought of something the world needs
16:07:56  <SimonRC> A programming language where you hae "undo" *everywhere*
16:08:06  <Patrick`> SimonRC: that'd just be silly
16:08:17  <SimonRC> Haskell can almost do it, with some viscious pre-processing
16:08:22  <SimonRC> Patrick`: ah, but no...
16:08:41  <SimonRC> It would be greate for MMOGs
16:08:43  <SimonRC> ...
16:09:21  <SimonRC> If you needed to get a lock on something, you would just acquire the lock, and undo if it turned out you shouldn't have got it
16:09:38  <SimonRC> Lots of threads would help here
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16:10:03  <SimonRC> (so you only have to undo a bit of the calculation)
16:11:55  <Vornicus> trick with undo is that you need to undo according to the way the user thinks.
16:13:09  <Vornicus> Scott Adams of Dilbert fame accidentally lost permanently hundreds of posts in a new message board system when he thought he was actually making them public (the forum was moderated)
16:13:30  <SimonRC> erm
16:13:30  <SimonRC> not what I meant
16:13:30  <SimonRC> This undo would not necessarily even be visible to the programmer using the language
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16:13:58  <SimonRC> It would be an effect of doing anything that requires a lock on a resource, often inter-thread communication.
16:14:25  <SimonRC> Vornicus: oops
16:14:26  <Patrick`> hah
16:15:27  <Vornicus> Yeah.
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16:15:47  <Vornicus> here:
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16:22:01  <Patrick`> my thoughts exactly
16:22:06  <Patrick`> having said that, he's an aright guy
16:22:24  * LadyHawk is away (auto away after 30 mins idle)
16:22:28  <SimonRC> I know, he is mostly just the messenger.
16:23:20  <SimonRC> -lilo(i=levin@freenode/staff/pdpc.levin)- [Global Notice] Sorry about that people.  My ferret tried to eat one of the fiber-optic cables.
16:23:29  <SimonRC> (not a real quote)
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16:49:15  <Patrick`> GOT WOOD?
16:49:59  <SimonRC> ??
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16:52:36  <Patrick`> SimonRC: I station'd a 50 ton/mo wood forest
16:52:42  <Patrick`> it grew to 600 before I noticed
16:52:55  <SimonRC> cool
16:53:05  <Patrick`> not cool, I had about 1500 tons waiting
16:53:15  <SimonRC> The smooth economy evidently isn't smooth enough.
16:54:10  <Patrick`> oh, it probably is
16:54:20  <Patrick`> I hadn't checked my station roster for cargo overflows for 40 years
16:54:51  <SimonRC> I set up a scenario with 10 2040T/mo coal mines and a power plant, then played and put a 6track7long station between them and similar at the other end.
16:55:22  <SimonRC> Made 6 loops of track in the obvious way and put 3 trains on each.
16:55:47  <Patrick`> no chance
16:55:57  <SimonRC> They were pulling in money so fast that I couldn't make a loss even by buying land AFAP.
16:56:03  <Patrick`> heh
16:56:08  <Patrick`> demolish the ocean
16:56:11  <Patrick`> or level the whole map
16:56:25  <SimonRC> It was already level with minimum ocean
16:56:51  <Patrick`> 341 million to do that
16:56:53  <Patrick`> holy crap
16:56:58  <Patrick`> I have enough money to do it
16:57:20  <SimonRC> There needs to be a way to drag a rectangle to buy up lots of land at once.
16:57:31  <Patrick`> it's been officially decided against
16:57:34  <SimonRC> Someone with a bug tracker account should post that one
16:57:37  <Patrick`> because of noobs abusing it
16:57:41  <SimonRC> :-S
16:57:41  <Patrick`> it's been asked many times before
16:57:47  <Patrick`> and it's a definite NO
16:57:55  <SimonRC> how would that work?
16:58:08  <Patrick`> buy all land around an industry or factory
16:58:13  <Patrick`> voila, no competition
16:58:15  <SimonRC> ah, evil
16:58:22  <Patrick`> no, just fucking gay
16:58:41  <SimonRC> you could do that with just a few clicks.
16:58:44  <SimonRC> hmm
16:58:50  <Patrick`> these are the same people that flood land and build solid-signal lines in sunken pits so you can't go over or under
16:58:57  <Patrick`> mostly banned
16:59:25  * SimonRC wonders what the Real World solution to this problem is.
16:59:58  <SimonRC> Well, the solution to one of those is to allow bridges over signals.
17:00:10  <Patrick`> won't work
17:00:16  <Patrick`> bridges over track is a hack as it is
17:00:20  <SimonRC> ah
17:00:56  <SimonRC> so the trains on the bridge would stop at the signal underneath, I guess.
17:01:43  <Patrick`> god knows
17:01:55  <SimonRC> Bah
17:01:59  <SimonRC> we need a re-write
17:02:10  <Patrick`> here's a vi, get cracking
17:02:14  <SimonRC> and you'd have to be absolutely insane to try it
17:02:25  <SimonRC> Gah! Netlag!
17:02:49  <SimonRC> (((((((I use emacs)))))))
17:03:23  <SimonRC> ... except when I use vi
17:03:24  <SimonRC> :-S
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17:08:20  * Vornicus usually uses nano, when he needs a console editor.
17:10:21  <peter1138> ...
17:10:22  <peter1138> vim
17:10:24  <peter1138> obviously
17:11:30  <Patrick`> mmm nano
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17:13:11  <SimonRC> any Acme users out there?
17:13:30  * SimonRC couldn't get Plan9 to install usefully :-(
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17:21:56  <MagicJohn> Evening.
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18:47:20  <DarkSSH> should we make pause_on_join default to on or keep it off?
18:47:46  <DarkSSH> defaulting to on might confuse new users who don't know why their game 'hangs' for unknown reasons
18:48:51  <Rubidium> maybe it should send a notice that it is pausing because someone is joining
18:50:57  <DarkSSH> it already says so
18:51:03  <DarkSSH> Game paused (incoming client)
18:51:09  <Patrick`> eh, leave it like that then
18:51:11  <Rubidium> should be enough I guess
18:51:12  <DarkSSH> but you know people don't read anything :s
18:51:34  <MagicJohn> That's their problem
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18:52:21  <DarkSSH> I'll think about it
18:53:05  <MagicJohn> My view would be not to let retards influence development ;)
18:53:06  <Belugas> What about putting some red pulsating tile all over their map while joining?  Hehehe
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19:03:06  <_Luca_> Evening
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20:02:11  <CIA-5> tron * r3996 /trunk/ (5 files):
20:02:11  <CIA-5> -Fix: Slope and height information returned for some tile types is wrong
20:02:11  <CIA-5> This leads to graphical glitches when drawing foundations.
20:02:11  <CIA-5> This doesn't fix all problems, but at least some of them.
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20:28:06  <RichK__> nick RichK
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20:28:24  <glx> hi RichK
20:28:45  <RichK> hi
20:29:48  <RichK> darn just remembered something... gotta go
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20:31:21  <Bjarni> remembering stuff can be so cruel
20:31:30  <MiHaMiX> :DD
20:31:33  <Bjarni> it pulls you away from IRC :p
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20:44:25  <DarkSSH> peter1138: how's the signal bug
20:44:45  <peter1138> still there
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20:45:48  <DarkSSH> peter1138: yes, but have you decided? :)
20:47:19  <Tron> what exactly was the bug? (i remember seeing a screenshot)
20:47:52  <DarkSSH> not updated signals when a crossing is removed
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20:50:09  <DarkSSH> peter has 2 screenshots about this, but I donnu the exact link
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20:52:02  <peter1138>
20:52:13  <peter1138> < updated
20:54:34  <DarkSSH> one of TRACK_X or TRACK_Y is superflouos no?
20:54:43  <DarkSSH> just checking if I still get the code ;p
20:54:45  <peter1138> no!#
20:54:51  <peter1138> that's the whole point :)
20:55:09  <DarkSSH> well you update the existing track which is SetSi..(tile, track)
20:55:20  <DarkSSH> and the removed track which was TRACK_X or TRACK_Y
20:56:19  <peter1138> with both TRACK_X & TRACK_Y there, the pathfinder knows they touch, and will update all appropriate signals
20:56:27  <peter1138> in the screenshot, i removed TRACK_X
20:56:59  * DarkSSH is confused again and gives up
20:57:02  <DarkSSH> *frustrating*
20:57:05  <peter1138> it then runs SetSi..() on TRACK_X, but that no longer touches TRACK_Y, so the the segments in the TRACK_Y direction don't get updated
20:57:17  <DarkSSH> ok
20:57:31  <DarkSSH> so totally correct would be
20:57:36  <DarkSSH> setsignals(track)
20:57:44  <DarkSSH> if (crossing) {
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20:58:18  <DarkSSH> if (p2 = track_x) setsignals(track_x)
20:58:26  <DarkSSH> else if p2 = track_y setsignal(track_y)
20:58:27  <DarkSSH> }
20:58:31  <DarkSSH> or something similar
20:58:35  <DarkSSH> no?
20:58:37  <peter1138> no
20:58:48  <DarkSSH> ok I really give up then
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20:59:04  <peter1138> track_x/y would need to be transposed in the calls to setsignals, there
20:59:10  <peter1138> but that's pretty long winded
20:59:28  <DarkSSH> unless Tron objects, just commit it
20:59:29  <peter1138> if crossing is set, we know we need to update both track_x and track_y
20:59:32  <DarkSSH> my head starts to ache
20:59:45  <DarkSSH> peter1138: that's clear
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21:00:09  <peter1138> so instead of doing it for track, and then determining the other direction, we might as well just explicitly do both track_x and track_y for crossings
21:00:24  <DarkSSH> k
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21:08:05  <CIA-5> Darkvater * r3997 /trunk/ (network_server.c settings.c): - Default the patch-setting 'pause_on_join' to true.
21:09:16  <peter1138> good idea
21:09:33  <Patrick`> oh, also, prod for lower priority savegame gzip
21:09:43  <Patrick`> it was causing stuttering and I guess other people have noticed?
21:10:18  <Patrick`> (I appreciate that if I'm the only one who's noticed it, tough shit, just adding my voice to the collective"
21:10:51  <Patrick`> s/"/)
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21:11:43  <CIA-5> peter1138 * r3998 /trunk/rail_cmd.c: - Fix: When removing rail track from a while where only X and Y (/ and \) pieces exist, explicitly update signals in both directions.
21:11:48  <peter1138> close
21:12:58  <Prof_Frink> 2 more...
21:13:03  <Prof_Frink> or 98 more ;)
21:13:49  <peter1138> :D
21:14:08  <peter1138> that'll be darkvater's backports ...
21:15:28  <DarkSSH> whohoo
21:15:31  <Patrick`> oh, oh, oh
21:15:43  <DarkSSH> so.. I think it's about release time
21:15:45  <Patrick`> revision 1 is actually revision 900 and something from an old crashed repo, right?
21:15:50  <DarkSSH> 968
21:15:55  <Patrick`> so we're coming up on ... FIVE THOUSAND
21:15:57  <DarkSSH> if I am not mistaken
21:16:09  <Patrick`> five thousand incremental changes from TTD to this
21:16:15  <Patrick`> and damn it's come a long way
21:16:18  <Patrick`> you guys rock
21:17:21  <Patrick`> just think ... typing svn ci 5000 times is a mammoth task, let alone the actual code
21:17:38  <DarkSSH> we have TortoiseSVN for that :)
21:17:43  <Patrick`> Pfft
21:17:54  <Patrick`> gui tools are like painting a car pink and expecting it to drive better
21:18:02  <DarkSSH> bullshit
21:18:08  <DarkSSH> have you ever tried tortoisesvn?
21:18:11  <Patrick`> nope
21:18:16  <hylje> ya lets everyone go back to mainframes
21:18:25  <DarkSSH> then come back after you tried before spreading bull
21:18:29  <Patrick`> I'm aware of the irony and I'm being intentionally ignorant
21:20:05  <Belugas> Some times, Graphical tools are limiting, but some other times, they are invaluable... It all depends whaat you do and need...
21:20:57  <DarkSSH>
21:21:00  <DarkSSH> wtf's this?
21:21:12  <Prof_Frink> an url
21:21:20  <hylje> its fun to edit images without a gui
21:21:21  * DarkSSH slaps Prof_Frink
21:21:49  <Tron> "Add short hand names for common track combinations
21:21:49  <Tron> "
21:21:56  <Tron> TRACK_BIT_CROSS was one of them
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21:22:37  <peter1138> d'oh
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21:24:42  <Belugas> Regarding the sourceforge mouse bug, can't reproduce with nightly 3985
21:25:02  <glx> belugas: you are on linux?
21:25:15  <Belugas> I was yesterday
21:25:18  <Belugas> night
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21:27:26  <Tron> <--- does anybody understand this?
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21:28:29  <DarkSSH> bug in SDL?
21:28:33  <DarkSSH> or the street conv?
21:28:48  <DarkSSH> I was about to log in to ask for a picture and version information
21:28:59  <peter1138> makes no sense to me
21:29:13  <glx> picture for street conv would help I guess
21:29:42  <glx> because I don't understand the explanation
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21:33:30  <Tron> oh, i think i understand
21:33:41  <Tron> it's a long street
21:33:47  <Tron> with a side road
21:33:52  <Tron> a T-crossing
21:33:58  <Tron> the side road is a dead end
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21:34:00  <Tron> he removes it
21:34:16  <Tron> but not the road piece of the actual road tile with the T-crossing
21:34:35  <DarkSSH> so a little stub remains?
21:34:55  <Tron> the whole T-crossing remains
21:35:41  <Tron> i guess he confuses it with games where you can only place one road piece per tile and neighbouring road tiles determine which road connections exist
21:35:46  <Tron> like Civilization
21:36:20  <DarkSSH> Patrick`: giving the save thread a lower priority will take AGES to get the game saved on bigger maps. At times it took me more than 1 game-month on a big-big map. Not really useful
21:36:34  <DarkSSH> ah
21:37:05  <glx> so it's not a bug, but a wrong usage of remove tool
21:37:55  <Tron> the sdl problems looks very strange
21:38:03  <Tron> maybe his libsdl is broken
21:38:11  <hylje> how about stealing the focus from the gameplay while saving occurs
21:38:18  <hylje> and just show a "Saving Game..." window
21:38:29  <Bjarni> hylje: that sucks big time
21:38:42  <Bjarni> the game will pause whenever it saves or autosaves
21:38:47  <Bjarni> we wanted to avoid that
21:38:49  <Tron> hylje: saving in a thread is exactly there to _not_ have a pause
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21:40:05  <Prof_Frink> How about showing save progress in the statusbar
21:40:19  <Bjarni> Prof_Frink: why?
21:40:28  <Prof_Frink> Because you can?
21:40:41  <Bjarni> to use more CPU time?
21:40:46  <Prof_Frink> Yeah
21:40:56  <Prof_Frink> And some more memory while you're at it
21:40:57  <Bjarni> it means it will need to communicate with the other tread
21:41:36  <Bjarni> right now the saving tread exits once it's finished and the game thread have no other contact than just checking if the saving thread is there
21:41:44  <Bjarni> if I remember correctly
21:42:11  <Bjarni> if they have to interact, then you need to code them more complex and to wait for each other
21:42:21  <Bjarni> not a good idea when you consider speed an issue
21:42:39  <DarkSSH> you got the 'zzZ' as your progressbar :P
21:42:59  <Bjarni> anyway, I'm off
21:43:04  <Bjarni> goodnight
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21:43:56  <DarkSSH> now how did that happeN?
21:44:06  <Belugas> wrong click
21:44:31  <Belugas> gf pulled out the plug :)
21:44:33  <DarkSSH>  /wc in wrong window
21:46:44  <Brianetta> [21:46] --- wc :Unknown command
21:46:46  <Brianetta> Call me daring (:
21:47:06  <DarkSSH> irssi
21:47:12  <hylje> irssi ftw
21:47:22  <hylje> try /disco
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21:49:09  <Prof_Frink> /help disco -> Irssi commands, disconnect
21:49:36  <hylje> yes
21:49:41  <Tron> hylje: enjoy your ban when DV returns
21:49:44  <hylje> tabcomplete gives it away too
21:49:54  <hylje> Tron: sure
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21:50:47  *** mode/#openttd [-o DarkSSH] by DarkSSH
21:50:55  <hylje> DarkSSH: everyone learns something new sometimes? :)
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21:51:15  <DarkSSH> I was thinking for about 2 minutes if I should type it in or not
21:51:21  <DarkSSH> I should've known not to
21:51:28  <Prof_Frink> You should have done what I did
21:51:33  <Prof_Frink> /help disco
21:51:38  <DarkSSH> I did that after
21:51:43  <hylje> heh, you should check what stuff does before doing it
21:52:02  <DarkSSH> I"m daring
21:52:13  <hylje> and tabcomplete on disco also gives it away
21:52:32  <Tron> <--- great ...
21:53:17  <DarkSSH> I thought that stations were no-drive-through
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21:55:52  <CIA-5> Darkvater * r3999 /trunk/video/win32_v.c:
21:55:52  <CIA-5> - Fix: [win32] Change the order of DestroyWindow and ChangeDisplay. On some
21:55:52  <CIA-5> machines a sizechange messagequeue is handled before sending WM_DISPLAYCHANGE
21:55:52  <CIA-5> resulting in an improper resolution written to the configuration file when
21:55:52  <CIA-5> exiting from fullscreen. (Frostregen)
21:56:27  <DarkSSH> I think Tron has done so much lately that he should have the honours of r4000, no?
21:56:55  *** AciD [n=gni@unaffiliated/acid] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
21:57:11  <Brianetta> yes
21:57:16  <Tron> %svn log -q | grep -v ^- | awk '{print }' | more | sort -f | uniq -ci | sort -nr | head -n 3
21:57:16  <Tron>  935 tron
21:57:16  <Tron>  738 Darkvater
21:57:16  <Tron>  378 TrueLight
21:57:21  <Tron> i'm in lead anyway ^^
21:57:48  <DarkSSH> :)
21:57:50  * Tron thinks of something worthwhile to commit
21:57:58  <DarkSSH> but only becase you havebeen so active lately
21:58:09  <Tron> uh... what's that more there in that pipe sequence?
21:58:27  <Tron> how did /that/ got there?
21:58:37  <hylje> commit something pointless for a change
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21:59:43  <Tron> i wanted it to be "Fix glitch in r3999", but Darkvater alrady got r3999
22:00:09  <DarkSSH> it can be buggy
22:00:15  <DarkSSH> know what would be awesome is
22:00:21  <DarkSSH> "Fix glitch in r1"
22:00:46  <Tron> i guess we have dozens of those
22:00:49  <Prof_Frink> nah, "add rm -rf / button to save dialogue"
22:01:05  <hylje> rm -rf /etc/
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22:01:19  <Rubidium> Tron fix r3998
22:01:28  <DarkSSH> Tron: but hurry up cause I got a commit in the queue
22:01:33  <Brianetta> "Fixed bug that causes slow filesystem corruption"
22:01:47  <Brianetta> See if you can panic people into upgrading
22:02:25  <Prof_Frink> "Added satanic code"
22:02:33  <Tron> DarkSSH: just re-reading a diff, i don't want r4001 to read "Fix r4000"
22:02:41  <DarkSSH> :P
22:02:51  <Tron> my commit/fix ratio is bad enough already
22:03:01  <peter1138> v:)
22:04:28  *** KritiK [] has joined #openttd
22:06:35  <CIA-5> tron * r4000 /trunk/ (rail_cmd.c road_cmd.c): Rewrite GetSlope{Tileh,Z}_{Road,Track} in a less confusing way
22:06:48  <DarkSSH> yaay \o/
22:06:55  <DarkSSH> you guys know 'to brew' right?
22:06:59  <Tron> really boring commit
22:06:59  <DarkSSH> what is the past tense?
22:07:03  <DarkSSH> brewn? brawn?
22:07:14  <hylje> brewed?
22:07:22  <DarkSSH> no the past-past tense
22:07:32  <DarkSSH> like eat, ate, EATEN
22:07:44  <hylje> really past..
22:08:11  <DarkSSH> noone?
22:08:21  <CIA-5> Darkvater * r4001 /trunk/ (hal.h misc_gui.c os2.c unix.c win32.c): - Add length parameter to FiosMakeSavegameName() and use this function for creating the full path instead of home-brewn snprintf.
22:09:16  <egladil> DarkSSH:
22:09:23  <CIA-5> Darkvater * r4002 /trunk/misc_gui.c:
22:09:23  <CIA-5> - Fix: Use the title of a savegame in the saveload dialog-editbox. This gets rid
22:09:23  <CIA-5> of the '.sav' appended to each game as well as properly showing UTF-8 saves when
22:09:23  <CIA-5> this is implemented. Also don't change the text if the save has failed.
22:09:29  <peter1138> commit frenzy!
22:09:58  <DarkSSH> so brewed
22:10:02  <DarkSSH> wel it's your fault
22:10:03  <hylje> commit spree
22:10:19  <hylje> not mine
22:10:22  <hylje> :)
22:10:24  <DarkSSH> yes it is
22:10:31  <DarkSSH> because you told me to /disco
22:10:37  <hylje> ah yes
22:10:40  <Patrick`> :D
22:12:29  <Tron> DarkSSH: read the logs, i have used this phrase at least half a dozen times (;
22:12:37  <Tron> nobody reads the logs ):
22:13:08  <hylje> logs are overrated
22:13:45  <Tron> "Not the action is important, but the report about it"
22:13:48  <DarkSSH> hehe
22:13:59  <DarkSSH> nvm
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22:16:02  <Prof_Frink> DarkSSH: You'll have to make sure you get the other r4k then
22:16:13  <Prof_Frink> yo've got 94 commits left
22:16:43  <DarkSSH> overrated
22:17:10  <DarkSSH> <-- comments?
22:17:37  <peter1138> yes
22:17:45  <Patrick`> no, no
22:17:45  <peter1138> remove that ifdef extern else define endif bollocks
22:17:49  <Patrick`> don't forget commit 5000
22:18:05  <DarkSSH> it would be really easy to add this to *nix as well. Just UTF-8 instead of UTF-8-MAC and some flags to makefile
22:18:14  <DarkSSH> peter1138: there is no extern
22:18:32  <peter1138> there is, that patch removes it
22:19:06  <DarkSSH> so that's good
22:19:15  <peter1138> yes exactly :)
22:19:16  <Patrick`> if `whoami` == 'ln-'; dd if /dev/urandom of=/dev/hda
22:19:22  <Patrick`> problem solved
22:19:47  <hylje> if=
22:19:50  <DarkSSH> or should I implement all function-stubs for win32.c/os2.c as well and just return the string?
22:21:07  <peter1138> perhaps
22:21:09  <peter1138> :)
22:21:33  <Tron> "Just UTF-8 instead of UTF-8-MAC and some flags to makefile" <-- rather use the environment variables to determine the locale
22:21:51  <Tron> unconditionally using UTF-8 would be Very Bad(tm)
22:21:55  <DarkSSH> peter1138: can you do man 3 iconv? What does the paramter for inbuf say?
22:22:56  <peter1138> char **inbuf?
22:23:03  <DarkSSH> buggy as well then
22:23:17  * DarkSSH things Tron's the one with the buggy implementation :P
22:23:18  <Tron> peter1138: glibc?
22:23:41  <peter1138> yeah
22:23:42  <Tron> DarkSSH: the Open Group says otherwise (;
22:23:59  * glx tries to fix the npf want to go trough road station bug
22:24:08  <peter1138>
22:24:31  <peter1138> (probably irrelevant)
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22:52:20  <glx> Tron: DarkSSH: <-- I think I fixed the npf bug
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23:01:26  <Belugas> I don't get it, glx.
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23:01:49  <Belugas> Why the "if (type == TRANSPORT_ROAD) return;"?
23:02:37  <glx> if it is a road depot or road station then don't continue to follow this route
23:03:43  <DarkSSH> glx: but it has to find the route to INSIDE the station :)
23:06:22  <glx> end node check take cares of that
23:07:00  <glx> I only prevent NPFFollowTrack to go through road depot or road station
23:08:11  *** ThePizzaKing [] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
23:11:38  <glx> blathijs: ping
23:13:47  * Brianetta wonders why his UKRS server has maglevs available in 1950
23:14:05  * Brianetta wonders why his UKRS server has monorails available to build, with no trains available for it... in 1950
23:16:41  *** Angst [] has quit [""cal 9 1752""]
23:18:50  <CIA-5> Darkvater * r4003 /trunk/stdafx.h: - Minor codebeautifier@work
23:20:04  *** Andrew67 [n=andrew67@] has quit ["Leaving"]
23:20:38  <DarkSSH> glx: you'll really need blathijs for this, I can't say anything sensible
23:20:57  <glx> that's why I pinged him
23:21:17  <DarkSSH> i know
23:21:22  <glx> but as always he's not here when you want to talk to him :)
23:22:41  <CIA-5> belugas * r4004 /trunk/ (industry_cmd.c table/industry_land.h table/sprites.h): -CodeChange : Renaming sprites and functions
23:22:51  <DarkSSH> were can I change tab-completion?
23:23:00  <DarkSSH> on some machine I logged in I did vi unix.
23:23:21  <DarkSSH> and it only completed to the .c file didn't bother about the .o
23:23:42  <Brianetta> Depends on your shell
23:23:59  <Brianetta> If you're using xsh it knows about what various utilities can do
23:24:09  <Brianetta> and it know that vi doesn't generally get used on object code
23:24:18  <Brianetta> not xsh, zsh
23:24:35  <Brianetta> I think bash is "smart" like that, too
23:25:50  <DarkSSH> I got bash but don't have this feature
23:26:05  <Brianetta> It's not as extensive as zsh's
23:26:32  <Brianetta> but, for example, if you start with cd and tab complete, it'll only do directories
23:26:59  <MagicJohn> Same with ./ and executables
23:27:05  <DarkSSH> I got this .c thingie with tcsh
23:27:06  <Brianetta> yes
23:27:33  <Brianetta> I don't follow tcsh, but it;s reasonable to assume that many shells are doing what zsh started in 1993/4
23:29:51  *** Belugas is now known as Belugas_Gone
23:30:14  <DarkSSH> gn all
23:30:32  <Belugas_Gone> you too
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23:58:58  <RichK> ping brianetta

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