Log for #openttd on 29th April 2006:
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00:00:38  <RichK67_> glx: any thoughts on how i can repaint the update window?
00:00:58  <glx> still compiling :)
00:05:01  <RichK67_> ive tried allsorts - the window is there, and is getting updated, but it doesnt get repainted. if i call UpdateWindows() it throws an error "invalid string id0 in GetString" ... i think it is when it tries to repaint the cash amount in the status bar
00:13:35  <glx> RichK67_: why did you put
00:13:36  <glx> SetWindowDirty(w);
00:13:36  <glx> MarkWholeScreenDirty();
00:13:36  <glx> in window paint?
00:13:58  <RichK67_> guessing
00:17:33  <glx> there's a warning in main_gui.c
00:20:03  <RichK67_> saying what?
00:20:36  <glx> 'ResetLandscape' defined but not used
00:20:47  <glx> line 1087
00:20:53  <RichK67_> ah - ignore it.... doesnt matter (for now)
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00:39:54  <black_Nightmare> brianetta..if you're there I got something to say in the game :p
00:42:41  <XeryusTC> :)
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00:44:05  <Vornicus> glx: there's a lot of those.
00:44:39  <glx> Vornicus: about what?
00:48:35  <Vornicus> defined but not used warnings.
00:48:35  <Vornicus> I get more than 100 when I build.
00:48:42  <glx> only this one for tgp
00:49:06  <glx> and I don't get any in trunk
00:49:32  <Vornicus> I get lots about airports in trunk.
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01:38:48  <Brianetta> OK
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02:11:33  <black_Nightmare> just wondering but like when you think the electric rails would be in the release? (not just the nightly build)
02:23:20  <Vornicus> When they make a new release.
02:23:56  <glx> I think it's no new feature before 0.5, but I can be wrong
02:27:05  <black_Nightmare> hm ok thanks anyhow
02:27:07  <black_Nightmare> was just curious
02:27:21  <black_Nightmare> say..any of you tried pikka's uksr transets?
02:27:40  <glx> yes, it's not bad
02:27:47  <glx> I like DBSetXL too
02:28:49  <black_Nightmare> heh I like the variety finally :p
02:28:57  <black_Nightmare> sometimes a bit hard to pick which one to use but who cares :))
02:29:08  <black_Nightmare> oh yeah and I have one farm that has two seperate lines to factory because...
02:29:17  <black_Nightmare> the grain cars can move faster than the livestock one does ^_^
02:29:19  <black_Nightmare> kinda more fun
02:29:42  <glx> with recent svn changes you can now know for what an engine is designed
02:29:56  <black_Nightmare> yeah...I already do so quickly
02:30:05  <black_Nightmare> BR HST pulling a short passenger train quickly and...
02:30:21  <black_Nightmare> doubleheaded DR 2-10-0's hauling a heavy grain train
02:30:56  <glx> btw with wagon speed limit, there's no need to put a fast engine in front of a cargo train
02:31:14  <black_Nightmare> like I was saying :p
02:31:37  <black_Nightmare> the 2-10-0's are only 104km/h but they sure can take any loads you want to throw at them
02:33:34  <black_Nightmare> oh and the two tiny engines are amusing
02:34:03  <black_Nightmare> there's either a 0-4-0 saddle steam engine for 56km/h or the class 09 shunter for 40km/h but both are dirty cheap
02:34:23  <black_Nightmare> well I'm going to bed...bye till tomorrow ;)
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06:14:19  <Tron> <Celestar> <= should we fix this for 0.4.8 ? <-- technically it's not a bug
06:14:57  <Tron> the upper train just starts a little bit earlier
06:18:59  <Tron> <Darkvater> Celestar: donnu why you backported 4304,4309,4310,4312 and 4313 though. It was only code cleanup <-- at least 4312 is a bug fix, i just failed to mark it as such
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06:39:15  <Tron> KUDr: your last commit seems incomplete. there are at fource places in tunnelbridge_cmd.c which change the tracks (build/remove bridge/tunnel), but you only added one callback
06:39:26  <Celestar> Tron: morning
06:39:31  <Tron> s/at fource/four/
06:39:41  <Tron> never change a sentence halfway through
06:39:49  <Celestar> lol
06:40:07  <Tron> Celestar: did you read my comment about #142 a few lines up?
06:40:23  <Celestar> yes I do
06:40:39  <Celestar> and I agree
06:40:52  <Celestar> but it's annoying.
06:40:52  <Celestar> however, there is no way to fix it with the current system.
06:41:18  <Celestar> so possibly that's for 0.5.0 or even later.
06:41:33  <Celestar> Tron: did you happen to have a chance to look at my new tile types?
06:42:02  <Tron> %svn di svn:// svn:// | wc -l
06:42:02  <Tron>    69288
06:42:03  <Tron> ...
06:42:21  <Tron> i'm not sure what you're talking about
06:42:27  <Vornicus> what's "di" do?
06:43:37  <Tron> di(ff)
06:43:46  <Celestar> Tron: <= I'm introducing specific tile types for road and rail bridges. The idea being that MP_RAILWAY and MP_RAILWAY_BRIDGE have the same internal layout (save for the 4 bits for bridge type) which should result in much less special casing.
06:43:47  <Vornicus> aah
06:44:44  <Celestar> (same for MP_STREET and MP_STREET_BRIDGE)
06:44:49  <Celestar> me->breakfast();
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06:57:09  <Celestar> Tron: RFC?
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06:59:32  <Tron> probably yes, but not now
07:04:03  <Celestar> explain
07:04:34  <Celestar> *munch*
07:18:23  <Celestar> *munch*
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07:27:00  <CIA-3> peter1138 * r4616 /trunk/newgrf_spritegroup.c: - NewGRF: when evaluating a variable adjustment, give our value the correct type after rather than before it has been adjusted.
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07:31:03  <KUDr> [08:37:12] <Tron> KUDr: your last commit seems incomplete. there are at fource places in tunnelbridge_cmd.c which change the tracks (build/remove bridge/tunnel), but you only added one callback <-- thanks, i will look at it again
07:32:05  <Celestar> KUDr: I've done some more performance testing.
07:32:21  <KUDr> and results?
07:32:38  <Celestar> trains pose no problem in basically any situation, will switch to RVs next, and then ships
07:32:58  <KUDr> ships are slow
07:33:04  <Celestar> and I'm still trying to find the goddamn owner leak.
07:33:15  <KUDr> you know - the A* as it is is not the best algo
07:33:27  <KUDr> aha
07:33:30  <Celestar> KUDr: if you limit the maximum distance to whatever OPF had, how's the performance then?
07:33:44  <KUDr> in the tracks under AI removed bridge?
07:33:48  <Celestar> KUDr: yes.
07:34:00  <Celestar> the AI calls the normal CMD_REMOVE_BRIDGE
07:34:19  <KUDr> I dunno how OPF has it
07:34:30  <Celestar> so I guess 142 cannot be solved for 0.4.8. and 109 will be kinda difficult :S
07:35:29  <Tron> if the pathfinder does the necessary magic GetTileTrackStatus() could just return 0 for rail depots
07:36:07  <Celestar> yeah.
07:36:10  <Celestar> I know.
07:36:15  <peter1138> like for road stops?
07:36:16  <Celestar> I just don't like the "magic" part (=
07:36:30  <Tron> like road stops, road depots, yes
07:36:56  <Tron> the track status simply has no notion for "dead end", that's the problem
07:37:17  * peter1138 nods
07:38:05  <KUDr> hmm
07:38:17  <KUDr> in the YAPF i did it opposite way
07:38:34  <Celestar> KUDr: opposite?
07:38:37  <KUDr> i added tracks into road depots and stops
07:38:48  <Tron> this leads to all kinds of problems
07:38:49  <KUDr> to have it the same as rail
07:38:55  <KUDr> and less magic in YAPF
07:38:59  <Tron> like towns building roads at the back side of road stops
07:39:23  <KUDr> hmm
07:39:55  <Celestar> Tron: KUDr: maybe a proper solution would be some kind of "dead end" marker?
07:39:58  <KUDr> but navigating vehicle somewhere, where are no tracks also causes problems
07:39:58  <TSC> KUDr: I think you've made a tiny mistake in line 74 of yapf_costcache.hpp
07:40:11  <TSC> There's a backtick at the start of the line
07:40:55  <Tron> Celestar: is there a savegame for the ai bridge problem?
07:41:04  <KUDr> TSC: this line?:
07:41:05  <KUDr> if (pC != NULL && last_rail_change_counter != Cache::s_rail_change_counter) {
07:41:36  <TSC> Yes
07:41:38  <Celestar> Tron: yes. but there it already happened.
07:41:47  <TSC> There's a ` at the start of it in SVN
07:41:52  <Celestar> <= Tron this savegame.
07:42:08  <Tron> ^M
07:42:09  <Tron>     // delete the cache sometimes...^M
07:42:09  <Tron> `   if (pC != NULL && last_rail_change_counter != Cache::s_rail_change_counter)
07:42:09  <Tron> {^M
07:42:13  <KUDr> TSC: thanks, i see
07:42:14  <Tron> not to mention the CRs
07:42:25  <Celestar> CRs? I don't have any?
07:42:41  <KUDr> EOL flag?
07:42:55  <Tron> %svn pl yapf_costcache.hpp
07:42:56  <Tron> %
07:43:17  <KUDr> what is pl?
07:43:32  <Tron> proplist
07:43:44  <Celestar> right it isses for some.
07:43:50  <KUDr> i will repair it
07:43:51  <Celestar> ok who adds the stuff?
07:44:01  <Celestar> KUDr: you miss the keywords also it seems
07:44:18  <KUDr> hmm
07:44:41  <Celestar> add a line "/* $Id$ */" as the first line of each source file and set property svn:keywords to "Id" :)
07:45:15  <KUDr> will try
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07:45:25  <Celestar> the amount of crap on German's TV is unbelievable.
07:45:45  <MeusH> hi]
07:45:48  <Celestar> lo
07:47:10  <Celestar> BAH all these accessor functions make debugging really difficult
07:47:29  <Tron> huh?
07:47:44  <Celestar> because the debugger jumps into about 150 functions in a single line :P
07:48:02  <Tron> DEBUG=2
07:48:09  <Tron> -> -fno-inline
07:48:16  <MeusH> Celestar: not only on German's TV. The worst things in Polish TV are TV shopping and stupid games (call us first and you may win 800$*   {SMALLFONT}Dial price 3$ per minute)
07:48:34  <Celestar> yeah
07:48:36  <Celestar> Tron: I know.
07:48:41  <MeusH> or "call us and solve the equation" which is totally dumb
07:48:45  <Celestar> but I'd like to swap debug levels 2 and 3.
07:48:52  <MeusH> like 3x = 6+x
07:48:54  <Tron> huh?
07:49:41  <Celestar> Tron: we have those game shows as well.
07:49:43  <Celestar> ^^
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07:50:06  <Tron> Celestar: the "huh?" was a reply to your last line
07:51:06  <Celestar> Tron: so that you can have a binary without optimized-out values, but still inline functions.
07:51:36  <Tron> and the use of that would be?
07:51:50  <Celestar> Tron: the "newtiletypes.diff" fixes some minor problems in the bridge branch as well.
07:52:01  <Tron> `-fno-inline'
07:52:01  <Tron>      Don't pay attention to the `inline' keyword.  Normally this option
07:52:01  <Tron>      is used to keep the compiler from expanding any functions inline.
07:52:01  <Tron>      Note that if you are not optimizing, no functions can be expanded
07:52:01  <Tron>      inline.
07:52:04  <Tron> last sentence
07:52:12  <Celestar> Tron: easy, somehow my gdb cannot access optimized-out variables.
07:52:21  <Celestar> hm
07:52:27  <Celestar> good point.
07:52:33  <Tron> of course it cannot
07:52:54  <Celestar> you didn't get the british humour in the last sentence did you? :)
07:52:56  <Tron> if a value only lived in a register, but that register is already overwritten with another value...
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07:53:47  <Tron> use DEBUG=3 if you really need every bit of information
07:54:06  * Celestar resumes working on newtiletypes.
07:54:08  <Tron> then gcc spills every value etc.
07:54:13  <Celestar> yeah
07:58:02  <Tron> hm
07:58:10  <Tron> an AI just removed a bridge over my rail
07:58:14  <Tron> i still own that rail
07:59:45  <Tron> without an exact revision number i cannot tell if there _was_ a bug
08:01:05  <Celestar> Tron: yeah I figured that much. :(
08:01:11  <Celestar> I've spent hours on that bug
08:01:45  <Tron> Upper Sinnington is strange, too
08:01:48  <Tron> it has no signals
08:02:36  <Celestar> wee! newtiletypes now load old savegames.
08:04:06  * Celestar activates 7 AIs and puts maximum game speed.
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08:05:19  <Celestar> ROFLMAO
08:05:28  <Celestar> Tron: flexible tiles under bridge does NOT prevent the AI from being stupid :P
08:05:40  <Tron> ?
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08:07:19  <Celestar>
08:07:34  <Celestar> hilarious (=
08:08:05  <peter1138> lol
08:09:01  <KUDr> nice
08:09:03  <Celestar> I wonder whether the AI just builds TOTALLY randomly or whether ther is some logic behind it (=
08:09:24  <Tron> something is very strange with that savegame anyway
08:09:31  <Celestar> BANG
08:09:40  <Celestar> Error: !Disconnecting train
08:09:44  <Celestar> I hate that message.
08:10:23  <Tron> this happens when a train reverses on a bridge
08:11:11  <Celestar> well I didn't reverse.
08:12:41  <Celestar> very weird.
08:12:51  <Celestar> when I stop the train for one gameday it doesn't happen :o
08:13:43  <Tron> save please
08:14:11  <Tron> the AI problem must be in r3610 or before according to the time stamp of the bug report
08:14:55  <Celestar> Tron: I can give you a savegame but it's with my diff ...
08:15:08  <Celestar> the train tries to reserve at the end of a bridge for no apparent reason.
08:15:18  <Tron> screenshot please
08:15:23  <Celestar> ok.
08:15:25  <Celestar> standby
08:17:44  <Celestar> <= it's all there, screeny, diff, savegame.
08:18:25  <peter1138> 90° bends?
08:18:35  <Celestar> peter1138: yes?
08:18:43  <Celestar> it's the AI (=
08:18:57  <peter1138> are they disabled?
08:19:09  <CIA-3> KUDr * r4617 /branch/yapf/ (33 files in 3 dirs):
08:19:09  <CIA-3> [YAPF] Fix: flags (EOL=Native, Keyw.=Id) set
08:19:09  <CIA-3> Fix: makefile: missing -lrt in unittest
08:19:22  <Celestar> no, and the problem doesn't appear anywhere near a 90° bends.
08:19:36  <Celestar> KUDr: I _hope_ you set svn:eol-style to native
08:19:40  <Tron> explain the screenshot
08:19:46  <Celestar> it must be exact. also caps.
08:20:03  <KUDr> Celestar: EOL=Native
08:20:10  <Celestar> KUDr: baaaaad. (=
08:20:14  <Tron> that's totally wrong
08:20:19  <KUDr> hmm
08:20:23  <Tron> it must be svn:eol-style native
08:20:34  <Tron> just like for every other file
08:20:48  <Celestar> Tron: the train is about to enter a bridge. when it tries to leave the bridge, it can't (GTTS problem probably) and reverses. you know what follows next.
08:20:50  <KUDr> it IS like for every other file
08:20:57  <peter1138> Property svn:keywords set to Id
08:21:00  <peter1138> that's ok
08:21:06  <peter1138> Property svn:eol-style set to native
08:21:08  <KUDr> i dunno property name
08:21:09  <peter1138> that's ok
08:21:16  <KUDr> I am mouse clicking user
08:21:21  <peter1138> i guess you're using some lame gui tool ;p
08:21:22  <Celestar> it's ok.
08:21:30  <KUDr> yeah
08:21:34  <Celestar> tortoisesvn seems strange (=
08:21:46  <peter1138> you didn't set eol-style on every file, though
08:21:50  <KUDr> it is SmartSVN
08:21:54  <Celestar> oh (=
08:21:57  <Tron> Celestar: leaving the bridge or entering the ramp tile?
08:21:59  <Celestar> peter1138: which file is missing?
08:22:03  <peter1138> loads
08:22:13  <peter1138> hmm, unless they were there anyway
08:22:21  <KUDr>  <peter1138> you didn't set eol-style on every file, though <-- on sources only
08:22:27  <Celestar> Tron: leaving the ramp actually.
08:22:31  <KUDr> are
08:22:43  <KUDr> there where there for some files
08:22:44  <KUDr> yes
08:22:47  <Tron> Celestar: so leaving the ramp tile and entering the first normal rail piece?
08:22:51  <Celestar> Tron: yes.
08:23:09  <Celestar> Tron: but if I stop the train for a couple of days, it works. <= I have no logical explanation for that.
08:23:14  * peter1138 off
08:23:33  <Celestar> unless there is some serious serious bug.
08:24:33  <KUDr> Celestar: hunting that owner leak?
08:24:43  <Celestar> KUDr: not at the moment. hunting down a bridge bug.
08:24:50  <Tron> #
08:24:51  <Tron> branch/yapf/openttd.dsp
08:24:51  <Tron>     * Property svn:eol-style changed from native to CRLF
08:24:53  <Tron> *BZZZT*
08:24:54  <Tron> wrong
08:25:04  <Tron> native was perfectly correct
08:25:17  <Celestar> native is mostly perfectly correct.
08:25:20  <KUDr> Tron: Native was only problem
08:25:26  <Celestar> why?
08:25:30  <Celestar> native is CRLF on windows.
08:25:34  <KUDr> VC6 adds many blanks at the end
08:25:34  <Celestar> LF on *nix
08:25:44  <KUDr> and i must correct it manually always
08:25:51  <KUDr> it is anoying
08:26:03  <Celestar> you cannot commit trailing whitespace ...
08:26:10  <KUDr> why?
08:26:18  <Celestar> because it's annoying (=
08:26:21  <KUDr> if it is added by stupid program?
08:26:36  <KUDr> .dsp is NOT edited manually
08:26:39  <Celestar> actually svn commit should block any attempt to do so.
08:26:41  <KUDr> so why Native?
08:26:52  <Celestar> well, for the .dsp I don't really care (=
08:26:57  <KUDr> then it is wrong
08:27:00  <Tron> because it IS edited manually
08:27:05  <KUDr> i can't repair VC6
08:27:20  <Celestar> Tron: when?
08:27:27  <KUDr> so then we must remove the blanks checking
08:27:36  <Tron> adding new files without VS
08:27:40  <Celestar> I don't add anything to VC6 even if I add a file.
08:27:45  <Celestar> someone else has to do it.
08:28:02  <KUDr> yes and can also test it
08:28:08  <Celestar> vici@rivendell:[/home/vici/openttd/branch/bridge]> svn pg svn:eol-stype openttd.dsp
08:28:11  <Celestar> vici@rivendell:[/home/vici/openttd/branch/bridge]>
08:28:22  <Tron> KUDr: nobody has mentioned this issue before and the trailing whitespace check is in place for >1 year, so i suspect the problem is on your side
08:28:38  <Celestar> er typo
08:28:50  <Tron> %svn pg svn:eol-style openttd.dsp
08:28:50  <Tron> native
08:28:56  <KUDr> At home and also at work? I have last SP for VC6
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08:29:03  <KUDr> what more can I do?
08:29:16  <Celestar> lets see
08:29:42  <Celestar> there is no trailing whitespace in openttd.dsp in trunk.
08:29:55  <KUDr> i removed it always
08:30:04  <KUDr> manually
08:30:11  <KUDr> at least 10x
08:30:15  <Celestar> whoa
08:30:17  <KUDr> it is crazy
08:30:27  * Celestar wonders whether it is time to finally drop VC6 support.
08:30:33  <Celestar> (=
08:30:46  <Celestar> this good-for-nothing IDE causes nothing but trouble....
08:30:53  <KUDr> heh good idea for me, but not for many others i guess
08:31:20  <Celestar> which dev uses VC6?
08:31:44  <KUDr> i would just let it != Native so blanks are not checked and no problems occur
08:31:55  <KUDr> many users
08:32:09  <KUDr> no dev i guess
08:32:33  <KUDr> VC6 has also very bad compiler
08:32:43  <Celestar> yeah
08:32:50  <KUDr> many things i cannot do in C++
08:33:08  <KUDr> it is far from the C++ compliance
08:33:20  <Celestar> is there any C++ compiler that adheres to the standard on this planet?
08:33:25  <Celestar> hm ..
08:33:31  <Celestar> f*ck VC6 support.
08:33:42  <KUDr> others are much more close to it
08:33:51  <Celestar> I guess.
08:34:17  <KUDr> I would vote for dropping it
08:34:21  <Celestar> me too.
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08:34:48  <Celestar> I've spent soo much time solving VC6 problems, it's not worth that.
08:34:50  <KUDr> who has only VC6, he can install MinGW
08:34:57  <KUDr> so there is a solution
08:34:57  <Celestar> and MinGW is free.
08:35:02  <KUDr> yes
08:35:23  <Celestar> Tron, peter1138 and Darkvater will have to agree
08:35:32  <KUDr> so we don't close door for such users
08:37:05  <Celestar> also I'd like to have then consent of other people who do lots of development at the present time.
08:37:23  <Celestar> like Belugas_Gone and Rubidium
08:42:02  <Celestar> KUDr: will YAPF be any better/faster/cleaner without VC6 support?
08:42:31  <KUDr> not faster, just simpler a bit
08:42:38  <KUDr> sources
08:42:43  <Celestar> well still ;)
08:43:01  <KUDr> it is now too compicated
08:43:14  <Celestar> and that's because of VC6?
08:43:24  <KUDr> nested templates up to level 6 of recursion
08:43:30  <KUDr> it is not nice
08:43:35  <KUDr> yes
08:43:55  <KUDr> VC6 doesn't know template as template argument
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08:44:09  <KUDr> so it is more complicated
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08:44:14  <Celestar> I see.
08:44:37  <KUDr> also many methods must be public
08:44:47  <KUDr> even they should not be
08:44:54  <Vornicus> okay.  I've heard of four-star programming, and I've seen three-star programming, and five-star programming is The Stuff Of Legends... but six-angle-bracket programming?  Cripes and cookiedough.
08:45:02  <KUDr> and many such minor things
08:45:04  <Celestar> Vornicus: er what?
08:45:40  <Celestar> I guess Tron and Darkvater care crap about VC is general.
08:45:40  <KUDr> also const static member initialization in class body is not possible
08:46:02  <KUDr> Darkvater uses VC8
08:46:02  <Celestar> and also peter1138'll prolly give a damn
08:46:10  <KUDr> and it is very good compiler
08:46:22  <Celestar> it's a decent compiler
08:46:32  <Vornicus> often the complexity of C code is measured in how many times you can dereference a pointer before getting to something other than a pointer.
08:46:39  <KUDr> better than GCC in some aspects
08:46:41  <Celestar> Vornicus: trice :)
08:46:48  <Celestar> gcc has some problems here and there.
08:46:52  <Celestar> but every compiler has.
08:46:55  <Celestar> icc has too.
08:46:58  <KUDr> minor problems
08:47:05  <Vornicus> So if you can dereference a pointer three times, it's three-star code.
08:47:07  <Celestar> I use icc sometimes for openttd.
08:47:10  <KUDr> it doesn't hurt
08:47:18  <Celestar> Vornicus: so openttd is 3 star (=
08:47:25  <KUDr> icc == intel?
08:47:46  <Celestar> Vornicus: and all because of me :P
08:47:48  <Celestar> KUDr: yes.
08:47:51  <Vornicus> The complexity of templated C++ code can be measured by the nesting of angle brackets.
08:48:15  <Celestar> I'm not sure complexity is good (=
08:48:26  <Vornicus> I believe that without modifications, the STL is either 2 or 3-angle-bracket code.
08:48:33  <KUDr> Vornicus: yes - but is now worse than it should be in the YAPF because of VC6
08:48:36  <Celestar> static void FindRoadStationSpot(bool truck_station, Station* st, RoadStop*** currstop, RoadStop** prev)
08:49:07  * Vornicus eyes that
08:49:15  <Vornicus> madness
08:49:27  <Celestar> Vornicus: I already did a 5-star pointer once, but meanwhile I've reduced it to something sane.
08:49:40  <Celestar> 5-dimensional array.
08:50:00  <Vornicus> I don't know if arrays count. :P
08:50:19  <Celestar> ^^
08:50:20  <Celestar> not really.
08:50:35  <KUDr> many nested templates reduce readability
08:50:48  <KUDr> and i would like to keep YAPF simpler
08:50:54  <Celestar> Vornicus: if you have any better idea for that triple-pointer, go ahead (=
08:51:06  <Vornicus> Three-star programming is just fine.
08:51:36  <Vornicus> I tend to avoid it, personally, but I rarely code in straight C
08:51:59  <Celestar> the entire function is kinda magic. any C-newbie would run straight away.
08:54:21  <Celestar> it's like a 12 line function which you have to read through several times to understand what it does.
08:55:46  <Vornicus> Where is it, I'd like to test my skill. :)
08:56:26  <Celestar> station_cmd.c
08:57:29  * Vornicus fiddles
08:57:48  <Vornicus> Okay.  st, it appears, is the station to find a parking space at?
08:58:27  <Celestar> nah..
08:58:32  <Celestar> it's used when building a stop.
08:58:46  <Vornicus> ohhh
08:58:47  <Vornicus> okay.
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08:59:41  * Vornicus ....tries to reinterpret this.
08:59:59  <Celestar> CmdBuildRoadStop <= start here.
09:00:03  <Celestar> it then becomes clear
09:00:19  <Vornicus> gah
09:02:23  <Vornicus> Oh, I see what it's doing.
09:02:58  <Vornicus> ...I think
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09:06:55  <Vornicus> you're iterating over the stops list to find the end of it, and then when the function is done you're pointing at the end so you can just put the stuff there.
09:07:03  <Vornicus> Currstop and Prev are outputs.
09:08:37  <Vornicus> Did I get it?
09:09:24  *** jong [] has joined #openttd
09:09:40  <Celestar> yeah
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09:10:07  <Vornicus> yey
09:10:13  <Celestar> I'm not yet sure why I needed all that nexting tho :P
09:11:52  <Vornicus> ...god, it's been a while since I dealt with that stuff
09:11:56  <Celestar> nesting.
09:12:03  * Celestar goes documenting that entire crap
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09:20:21  <Celestar> BAH HELP
09:21:44  <Vornicus> meep?
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09:23:22  <Celestar> I don't get that function anymore :P
09:23:26  <Celestar> not the details (=
09:24:13  <Vornicus> The number of stars confuses me.
09:25:12  <Celestar> *currstop = &(**currstop)->next;
09:25:15  <Celestar> this is just lovely. (=
09:25:57  <Vornicus> guys do some evil shit with pointers.  I think I'll leave it at that
09:26:26  <Celestar> hehe (=
09:27:01  <Celestar> a colleague recently said "anything that can be done with pointers can be done without pointers as well".
09:27:10  <Celestar> I wonder how :P
09:29:12  <CIA-3> KUDr * r4618 /branch/yapf/tunnelbridge_cmd.c: [YAPF] Fix: missing 'track layout changed' notifications when building/destroying tunnel/bridge (thanks Tron)
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09:30:21  <Vornicus> References, probably
09:31:02  <Vornicus> Personally I'd have thrown out all sorts of this crap and made a relatively uniform linked list system a ways back, so you don't have to do it yourself all the damn time.
09:31:39  <KUDr> STL
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09:33:32  <Vornicus> I saw that coming
09:35:20  <Celestar> ^^
09:35:34  <Celestar> KUDr: I somehow believe that STL might help in this specific problem
09:36:06  <Vornicus> But yeah.  One of the advantages of STL is that you can make a thing that knows how to deal with its own complexities
09:36:15  <KUDr> for all containers it can help
09:36:23  <Vornicus> C++ rater
09:36:25  <KUDr> except hash_map i guess
09:36:39  <Vornicus> STL is just frightening sometimes
09:36:49  <KUDr> as it is not part of all distributions
09:37:19  <KUDr> Vornicus: you must use it carefully
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09:38:25  <Sacro> morning all
09:38:44  <KUDr> Sacro: same to you
09:38:58  <Celestar> morning Sacro
09:39:10  <Celestar> we still haven't got any further with the dropping discussion
09:39:38  <Sacro> signals?
09:39:48  <KUDr> dropping VC6?
09:39:57  <Sacro> oh right, didnt hear about that discussion
09:40:19  <KUDr> Sacro: what compiler do you use?
09:40:26  <Sacro> KUDr: cygwin
09:40:33  <KUDr> then ok
09:40:34  <Sacro> or gcc under linux
09:40:56  <KUDr> need to hear from somebody using VC6
09:41:04  <Sacro> i did use it for a while
09:41:25  <KUDr> if it will hurt much to remove VC6 support
09:41:43  <Celestar> what is RichK using?
09:43:08  <Tron> KUDr: is there any case where that callback is not used with UpdateSingalsOnSegment()/SetSignalsOnBothDirs()? (or the other way round: these functions without the callback)
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09:43:21  <Sacro> Celestar: no idea
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09:43:54  <Celestar> Tron: what's your opinion on VC6 ?
09:44:04  <Tron> i don't care about it
09:44:17  <Celestar> ok guys I needa go in 2 minutes, so please try to decide whether to drop VC6.
09:44:19  <Celestar> Tron: so entered.
09:44:20  <Celestar> ;)
09:44:53  <Celestar> so cu
09:45:13  <Sacro> remove the VC6 only files, see how many complain
09:46:27  <Brianetta> Mornining!
09:47:00  <KUDr> Sacro: i need to do lot of code cleanup in YAPF and it can be done much better if i don't need to be VC6 compiler compliant
09:47:41  <Sacro> Brianetta: morning
09:47:50  <KUDr> Brianetta: gm
09:47:50  <CIA-3> celestar * r4619 /trunk/station_cmd.c:
09:47:50  <CIA-3> -Codechange: Rename FindRoadStationSpot into FindRoadStopSpot and try to document it a little.
09:47:50  <CIA-3> if anyone comes up with an idea on how to simplify this thing a bit, I'd be grateful
09:47:53  <Sacro> KUDr: hmmmm
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10:15:44  <MeusH> I think dropping VC6 supports is allright, because VC6 doesn't load .dsp files (or did someone fix that?)
10:15:52  <MeusH> there are many other alternatives
10:16:01  <MeusH> free (read: legal)
10:16:29  <KUDr> VC6 doesn't load .dsp files? How can i reproduce this?
10:16:49  <MeusH> load openttd.dsw, it will crash when auto loading openttd.dsp
10:17:11  <KUDr> try it from /branch/yapf
10:17:18  <MeusH> It was some time ago, just when LKRaider wrote his tutorial on how to set up MinGW
10:17:35  <MeusH> okay KUDr, I'll try it
10:17:41  <KUDr> thanks
10:17:59  <KUDr> i am wondering why i didn't notice that problem
10:18:08  <MeusH> however, I'm using MinGW and metapad right now. And here is my question, does anyone have idea on a nice editor with good search (search in files) function, possible syntax highlight?
10:19:56  <KUDr> MeusH: for me it is not big issue to support VC6 project, but i have most issues with its compiler - if anyone can integrate VC6 IDE with free VC8 command line compiler, it would be great
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10:23:34  <black_Nightmare> hey
10:24:01  <Celestar> hey ho
10:24:16  <Celestar> damnit I cannot find my bridge bug.
10:24:22  <black_Nightmare> what you up to now?
10:24:36  <MeusH> KUDr: doesn't work
10:24:37  <black_Nightmare> me just got up a while ago...loading the nightly build openttd into brianetta's server again :p
10:25:03  <KUDr> MeusH: do you have SP5 installed on top of VC6?
10:25:15  <MeusH> I don't know if it is well configured, but I did it as said on the wiki, and on my previous system it worked just fine
10:25:19  <MeusH> what's SP5?
10:25:27  <Triffid_Hunter> service pack
10:25:28  <Celestar> weird weird
10:26:24  <KUDr> webfreakz uses VC6 too and afaik it works for him too
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10:27:26  <MeusH> Service pack for VC6, you mean?
10:27:44  <MeusH> I've recently uninstalled WinXP SP2 because it's the biggest crap I've ever seen
10:27:49  <MeusH> I messed with my internet connection
10:28:02  <hylje> what did you expect
10:28:17  <hylje> its security the microsoft way -- if you cant get it work, you cannot get it 0WNED
10:29:27  <Celestar> this bug is weird.
10:29:33  <KUDr> MeusH: yes VC6 SP5
10:29:46  <Celestar> when the train goes over the brige in april, it crashes, if it goes over the bridge in may, it works.
10:30:01  <hylje> :D
10:30:02  <KUDr> heh
10:30:04  <MeusH> fool's day :D
10:30:19  <MeusH> KUDr: I'll take a look at it, but not right now. I'm sorry I g2g
10:30:19  <Celestar> so either I'm stupid or something weird happens on monthly roll-over.
10:30:22  <MeusH> cleaning and stuff
10:30:36  <KUDr> MeusH: it is OK
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10:30:53  <Celestar> bah we should enumify the response from VehicleEnterTile
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10:38:45  <Celestar> ARGH
10:41:02  <Tron> hmhm
10:41:10  <Tron> Celestar: any insights in your bridge problem?
10:43:53  <Celestar> Tron: yes. (see above about the months)
10:45:33  <Tron> the train even returns at different point if you stop it for different amounts of time
10:47:15  <Celestar> bah we need some more debugging functions in console
10:47:29  <Celestar> like "print vehicle 1701"
10:49:22  <Celestar> how do I set a watchpoint?
10:50:43  <Celestar> ah
10:50:52  <Celestar> er ...
10:51:32  <Sacro> can someone please look at the bug when trying to autoreplace elwagons
10:51:47  <Celestar> Tron: found reason.
10:52:06  <Celestar> pathfinder cannot seem to find path and therefore tries to reverse the train direction
10:52:52  <Celestar> WEE
10:52:54  <Celestar> gdb segfaulted
10:53:07  <Tron> and why doesn't it find a path?
10:53:15  <Tron> the train heads for the depot directly ahead of it
10:53:27  <Celestar> dunno
10:53:32  <Celestar> problem goes away with NPF
10:54:00  <Tron> the question is: does your change cause the problem?
10:54:29  <Celestar> that I don't know yet
10:54:37  <Celestar> but I will investigate
10:55:04  * Celestar starts another game with vanilla branch
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10:55:33  <Celestar> Tron: but I guess it is the change :)
10:55:43  <Celestar> my left ball tells me it is
10:57:31  <Celestar> hm ..
10:57:35  <Tron> btw: i checked r3610, i can't find a reason for the AI bridge problem there either
10:57:39  <Celestar> getting other problems with vanilla.
10:57:50  <Tron> (r3610 is the same day as the problem was reported
10:57:52  <Tron> )
10:57:55  <Celestar> yes
10:58:15  <Celestar> the AI never sets the tile owner directly from what I can tell
10:59:05  <Tron> Rubidium: .
11:00:37  <Celestar> Tron: right when the train is on the bridgehead tile, the vehicle orders seem to have changed for some reason
11:03:47  <Tron> fascinating
11:05:41  <Celestar> which "seems" to be normal.
11:05:55  <Celestar> but the pathfinder cannot find the path to the station 3 tiles away. :S
11:13:26  <Celestar> Tron: problem (hopefully) solved :)
11:13:32  <Celestar> investigating further
11:16:31  <Celestar> I had improper modifications of bridge_map.c
11:20:34  <Celestar> do the AIs ever manage to make money?
11:21:26  <Xaroth> hardly
11:21:42  <Xaroth> give em a full map where there's millions of possibilities and they still go bankrupt..
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11:23:03  <Celestar> Hackykid: :o
11:23:12  <Celestar> *waves*
11:23:17  <Hackykid> lies!
11:23:20  <Hackykid> heya :-p
11:23:33  <Celestar> how's life been treating ya?
11:23:40  <black_Nightmare> xaroth..I barely ever used the ai at all
11:23:41  <black_Nightmare> :p
11:23:47  <Celestar> the AI is great.
11:23:54  <Celestar> for testing all the weird track combos one can buil.d
11:24:19  <Hackykid> oh i'm doing ok :-)
11:25:57  <Xaroth> black_Nightmare: True, but -if- you use it.. they should at least be some kind of an opponent :P
11:26:29  <Celestar> Hackykid: whatcha been up to lately?
11:27:12  <Hackykid> mostly with my studies, an trying to get a job now
11:27:24  <Celestar> hows success?
11:28:41  <Hackykid> studies are going well, and i might have a job by next week
11:28:59  <Hackykid> i need moneys lol :-p
11:29:30  <Hackykid> so, what have you been up to?
11:30:57  <Tron> <Tron> KUDr: is there any case where that callback is not used with UpdateSingalsOnSegment()/SetSignalsOnBothDirs()? (or the other way round: these functions without the callback)
11:31:29  <Celestar> Hackykid: much work
11:31:33  <Celestar> Hackykid: some coding (=
11:31:37  <KUDr> Tron: guess not
11:31:54  <KUDr> wanna join 'em?
11:32:11  <Tron> sounds reasonable
11:32:15  <Celestar> been playing with bridges, Hackykid (=
11:32:18  <KUDr> yes
11:32:28  <Hackykid> Celestar: what about bridges?
11:32:34  <KUDr> but different cases -> different functions and args
11:33:00  <KUDr> Tron: i didn't know how to deal with it
11:33:06  <Celestar> Hackykid:
11:33:14  <Celestar> me->lunch
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11:33:44  <Hackykid> ah
11:34:11  <Celestar> ok
11:34:15  <Celestar> cu laters.
11:34:20  <KUDr> cu
11:34:30  <Jango> Celestar: did you get my pm yesterday
11:34:57  <Celestar> Jango: nope due to a network crash
11:35:08  <Jango> ok
11:35:10  <Celestar> Tron: we MUST enable crossing bridges, the AI will be even better with that (=
11:35:29  <Jango> well, it was just a few suggestions on signals
11:35:30  <Tron> ...
11:35:36  <KUDr> Celestar: even more stupid?
11:36:15  <Celestar> yes.
11:36:27  <Celestar> the AI managed to crash two of its trains :o
11:36:27  <Tron> well, 2 perpendicular crossing bridges is technically possible without needing any more storage, but graphics wise...
11:36:35  <Tron> huh?
11:36:37  <Celestar> Tron: I'll draw something up
11:36:39  <Tron> that shouldn't be possible
11:37:02  <Xaroth> Celestar: That track looks odd :P
11:37:05  <Xaroth> AI or summat? :P
11:37:05  <Jango> has someone been working on the AI?
11:37:07  <Tron> the AI never uses the command to force a train through a red signal
11:37:08  <CIA-3> KUDr * r4620 /branch/yapf/ (10 files in 2 dirs): [YAPF] Code cleanup: some classes moved to their own files
11:37:50  <Celestar> Tron: I know.
11:37:59  <Celestar>
11:38:21  <Tron> how did that happen?
11:38:37  <Xaroth> lol
11:38:37  <Celestar> Tron: the train left the depot.
11:38:47  <Tron> is this your changed version?
11:38:50  <Celestar> yeah.
11:38:51  <Celestar> (=
11:38:56  <Celestar> more investigation.
11:38:57  <Tron> maybe signal updating problems
11:39:10  <Celestar> but before the train left, the signals pointing into the block were red
11:40:18  <Hackykid> heh, quite a few new branches i see :-)
11:40:37  <Celestar> yeah
11:40:38  <Celestar> back later
11:40:46  <Celestar> (much later, maybe tomorrow)
11:40:51  <Celestar> Tron: want diff and savegame or not?
11:41:02  <Jango> welcome back hackykid
11:41:17  <Tron> Celestar: no, atm i'm investigating at #55
11:42:12  <Tron> Celestar: but slowly i'm coming to the conclusion to classify it as random disturbance of the force
11:42:16  <Hackykid> heya Jango
11:42:23  <Celestar> ok
11:42:41  <Celestar> anyway
11:42:44  <Celestar> cu
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12:16:51  <Sacro> anyone around, i got a signal bug on brianettas ukrs nightly server
12:17:14  <Sacro> n/m, fixed it
12:18:41  <KUDr> diff?
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12:25:19  <Sacro> KUDr: built a missing signal :)
12:25:50  <KUDr> aha, so bug not in sources :)
12:27:31  <Hackykid> what kind of pathfinding algo does YAPF use?
12:27:41  <KUDr> A*
12:27:53  <KUDr> but is bit faster than NTP
12:28:14  <Hackykid> ah
12:28:19  <KUDr> and much than NPF
12:28:29  <Hackykid> cool
12:28:47  <KUDr> but still in prototype phase
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12:30:31  <Hackykid> but it sounds promising :-)
12:31:04  <KUDr> hopefully
12:31:29  <KUDr> but still not good for ships
12:31:40  <Hackykid> whats the main difference between npf an yaps that make yapf so much faster?
12:31:46  <Hackykid> *yapf
12:31:48  <KUDr> there are milions of nodes visited
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12:32:33  <KUDr> 1) YAPF is in C++ (using templates -> static binding)
12:32:51  <KUDr> 2) segment is part of node
12:33:03  <KUDr> 3) segment cost cache
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12:33:30  <Hackykid> nice nice
12:33:41  <Hackykid> hmm, templates are cool :-)
12:33:56  <KUDr> but make it hard to read
12:34:06  <KUDr> i need to do something with it
12:34:20  <KUDr> it must be understandable
12:34:25  <KUDr> not cryptic
12:34:25  <Hackykid> hmm, true
12:35:03  <KUDr> i don't want to be only one who can maintain it in the future
12:37:21  * ThePizzaKing pictures KUDr 80 years old and still programming YAPF
12:37:43  <KUDr> hehe it could happen :)
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12:38:26  <ThePizzaKing> After that commenty thing, I'm off to bed
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12:39:08  <blathijs> 14:34 < KUDr> not cryptic <-- is that a reference to NPF?
12:39:27  <KUDr> to current YAPF
12:39:42  <KUDr> i am not satisfied w/ its readability
12:39:45  <izhirahider> KUDr: Are you using Doxygen with it?
12:39:55  <KUDr> sometimes
12:40:03  <KUDr> but it is not the problem
12:40:13  <KUDr> nested templates are the problem
12:40:32  <KUDr> too much nesting
12:40:46  <Jango> is the segment cost cache done now?
12:40:57  <KUDr> yes
12:41:07  <Jango> makes a big speed difference?
12:41:19  <KUDr> it is now faster than NTP
12:41:31  <KUDr> so YAPF is now fastest PF
12:41:47  <Jango> ah, and it looks ahead much further than OPF?
12:42:05  <Tron> does this include the cost for updating the cache?
12:42:14  <KUDr> it finds any existing path - and the best path always
12:42:32  <KUDr> Tron: yes
12:42:45  <KUDr> cache is updated on the fly
12:42:54  <KUDr> as side effect
12:43:49  <Tron> i mean the cost for the callback
12:43:57  <Tron> is this included in your measurement?
12:44:35  <Jango> hmm, the PF in this game r4575 is going a bit potty
12:44:39  <KUDr> this callback happens only when you build something and contains only one line: counter++
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12:45:36  <Tron> only when you build something?
12:45:43  <Tron> why is it used in train_cmd.c then?
12:45:43  <KUDr> or remove
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12:46:29  <KUDr> hmm, i was blind probably - in removing crashed wagon
12:46:36  <Hackykid> hmm, so segment costs wont take into account signal states then?
12:46:44  <KUDr> you are right - it can be removed
12:47:18  <KUDr> Hackykid: only first 10 signals are counted and last one
12:47:50  <Hackykid> i see
12:48:22  <KUDr> after 10 signals passed the cache is used
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12:48:58  <Hackykid> argh
12:49:16  <KUDr> Hackykid: after 10 signals passed the cache is used
12:49:26  <Hackykid> ah, like that
12:49:56  <Hackykid> thats smart :-)
12:50:14  <KUDr> thanks
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12:57:51  <Hackykid> but you may not have a true A* compatible cost function then, cause the cost of a signal depends on the route being taken to that signal
12:58:18  <Hackykid> but hehm the NPF cost function is also flawed like that, and you usually dont notice it
12:59:20  <KUDr> Hackykid: YAPF cache has two different segments for each real segment (depends on direction you enter)
12:59:58  <Hackykid> hmm, so?
13:00:01  <KUDr> if it is 11th signal or more
13:00:16  <KUDr> why it should depend on the previous nodes?
13:00:34  <Hackykid> say theres a signal
13:00:42  <KUDr> the fist anwer was from my misunderstanding
13:01:02  <Hackykid> 1 route which has that signal as 1st signal, so it generates some penalty
13:01:16  <Hackykid> 1 route which has that signal as 11th signal, so it generates no penalty
13:01:56  <Hackykid> so, the cost of the signal depends on the route being taken to it
13:01:59  <KUDr> Hackykid: first 10 signals are calculated always and not cached
13:02:24  <Hackykid> yeah
13:02:28  <Hackykid> so?
13:02:37  <KUDr> so it cannot happen
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13:02:53  <KUDr> all signals in cached segments are 11th or more
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13:03:23  <KUDr> and reused only when 10 signals were passed already
13:03:58  <Hackykid> how does this contradict what i said?
13:04:31  <KUDr> [14:58:59] <Hackykid> 1 route which has that signal as 1st signal, so it generates some penalty <-- this is never cached
13:04:39  <Hackykid> so?
13:04:41  <KUDr> so it generates penalty
13:04:46  <Hackykid> its not about caching
13:04:50  <Hackykid> yes, it does
13:04:57  <Hackykid> [15:01] <Hackykid> so, the cost of the signal depends on the route being taken to it
13:05:15  <KUDr> yes
13:05:25  <KUDr> and it is ok, and should be so
13:05:27  <KUDr> or not?
13:06:12  <Hackykid> well, A* required that the same node always has the same cost, independant on the route being taken to that node
13:06:32  <Tron> that's not true
13:06:35  <Hackykid> but well like a said, NPF suffers from the same thing
13:06:36  <KUDr> are you sure?
13:06:37  <Hackykid> hmm
13:06:37  <Hackykid> ok
13:06:46  <Hackykid> Tron: really?
13:06:53  * Hackykid goes do some checking
13:06:57  <Tron> A* just requires that the estimate to the destination is always lower than the real cost
13:07:08  <Tron> that's called "valid estimate"
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13:07:21  <KUDr> exactly (lower or equal)
13:07:48  <Tron> there's also "monotonic estimates", but that just gives some extra properties, but is not necessary for a valid result
13:07:59  <KUDr> so i can't apply bonuses (negative costs)
13:08:06  <Tron> valid in the sense of A* means: find the cheapest path, if it exists
13:08:12  <Hackykid> ah
13:08:40  <blathijs> "cause the cost of a signal depends on the route being taken to that signal" <-- I talked to a friend of mine yesterday, who hacked on an NPF feature: giving every red signal a penalty, the closer the signal the higher the penalties. That resulted in trains taking stupid detours all the time, to increase the distance between themselves and the red signals...
13:09:02  <Born_Acorn> Hackykid! REMIND.
13:09:09  <Born_Acorn> peter1138! newstations!
13:09:14  <Hackykid> well, i once got npf to give me a not-cheapest path, and after discussing it with blathijs and truelight i think, truelight said the problem was the cost function
13:09:29  <Hackykid> oh well, was a long time ago :-p
13:09:35  <Tron> blathijs: read what i just wrote about the estimate!
13:10:11  <blathijs> Tron: I know how A* works, I was just illustrating a funny side effect of applying penalties...
13:11:48  <Hackykid> hmm, yeah, i think i get it now
13:12:26  <KUDr> Hackykid: so i misunderstood you twice
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13:12:52  <Hackykid> KUDr: and i was remembering something wrongly :-p
13:13:06  <KUDr> ok, now it's clear
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13:14:22  <Hackykid> the thing was, in npf the first signal gets a higher penalty if its red
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13:14:38  <KUDr> YAPF too
13:14:48  <Hackykid> so a train would prefer to take a detour that first went to a green signal and then to that red signal
13:14:53  <KUDr> also it has that look ahead as blathijs described
13:15:16  <Hackykid> which kinda suprised me at the time heh
13:15:28  <KUDr> Hackykid: it must be so - load balancing
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13:15:31  <Hackykid> yeah
13:15:41  <Hackykid> its not really bad when you think about it
13:15:56  <Hackykid> some situation just give slightly weird results
13:16:03  <KUDr> yes
13:16:26  <KUDr> can call it feature - not a bug (as M$ does often)
13:16:36  <Hackykid> :-)
13:17:58  <Tron> this reminds me of space invaders
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13:19:31  <Hackykid> hmm, space invaders, why is that?
13:20:01  <Hackykid> ack!
13:20:02  <Cipri> Maybe he wants to equip trains with blasters, so they can shoot trains off the track and always get the fastest route...
13:20:17  <Tron> <--- section "Implementation", first paragraph
13:20:28  <Tron> oldest "it's not a bug, it's a feature" known to me
13:20:30  <Tobin> Heh, according to the Nokia N73 technical specifications the Sales Package contains an N72. Now that's a handy accessory.
13:21:02  <Hackykid> hehe, thats interesting indeed :-)
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13:43:38  <Darkvater> blathijs: about DepotID/StationID. It is a bit of a mix but since trains have StationID orders I have made the depots into StationID as well seeing them as a somewhat 'obfuscated' station
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13:45:16  <CIA-3> bjarni * r4621 /branch/yapf/Makefile: -Fix: [OSX, YAPF] removed -lrt (again), this time only for OSX
13:45:34  <KUDr> thanks Bjarni
13:45:49  <Tron> Celestar: ok, i checked a range of about 1500 revisions and i have absolutly no idea what could cause the tile owner to change
13:46:14  <Tron> Rubidium: ?
13:46:17  <Bjarni> how far into the future is 0.4.8?
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13:48:03  <Sacro> Bjarni: its next :)
13:49:40  <Darkvater> bla bla, too much talk; what did I miss? :)
13:49:57  <webfreakz> something about space invaders :)
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13:50:46  <Darkvater> Bjarni: check the ottd dev forum for a post called '0.4.8 preparations' and see if you agree with the backports and if stuff is missed out
13:50:57  <black_Nightmare> a link
13:51:13  <black_Nightmare> I want see (I already am crazy about the nightly build stuffs thats not even in 0.4.7 LOLOLOL)
13:51:17  * black_Nightmare laughs
13:52:26  <Darkvater> no link,should be around the top somewhere
13:53:48  *** mode/#openttd [-o Darkvater] by Darkvater
13:53:55  <Bjarni> ok, I guess I better take a look at the issue in 0.4.7 that caused saving problems on OSX 10.3 (fixed in the trunk)
13:54:52  <Darkvater> Bjarni: look at the list and see if it is in there. If not reply to topic with rev
13:54:53  <black_Nightmare> ok one second..let me look :-D
13:55:21  <black_Nightmare> ah found it
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13:59:01  <blathijs> Darkvater: I'll make them DepotID for my new pools, since that is required to make the pool work right
13:59:12  <blathijs> Darkvater: same for WaypointID
14:00:18  <Darkvater> Don't see too much point in it. Will give troubles if/when switching to C++ about incompatible types
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14:14:16  <Sacro> amusement peoples:
14:15:36  <CIA-3> KUDr * r4622 /branch/yapf/yapf/ (yapf.hpp yapf_costrail.hpp): [YAPF] Fix: trains can't find route to the waypoint (thanks webfreakz)
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14:28:01  <Sionide> how come there's no plain simple linux-i386.tar.gz file of 0.4.7 ??
14:29:01  <Noldo> you mean binary?
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14:29:40  <Sionide> err yeah
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14:30:51  <Sacro> do u want one doing?
14:30:56  <Sacro> i did one for 0.4.5
14:31:12  <Sionide> it's alright, i've compiled myself just never really had to before..
14:31:20  <CIA-3> Darkvater * r4623 /trunk/ (7 files in 2 dirs): - Codechange: s/byte/PlayerID
14:31:21  <Sionide> compiled *it* myself, heh
14:32:26  <Brianetta> Two-way single-track line with stations as passing places and the odd single-platform station.  How many trains would you expect to fit on there?
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14:33:57  <Brianetta> The fifth one jammed it.
14:33:59  <Brianetta> ):
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14:38:24  <CIA-3> bjarni * r4624 /branch/0.4/ (4 files in 3 dirs): (log message trimmed)
14:38:24  <CIA-3> -Backported r4149 from trunk
14:38:24  <CIA-3>  main reason is that it fixes the load/save issue for OSX 10.3.9, but the other stuff in this commit can't be taken as it's a result of the fix
14:38:24  <CIA-3> full commit log entry:
14:38:24  <CIA-3>  -Codechange: [OSX] rewrite of how universal binaries are compiled
14:38:26  <CIA-3>  Now OSX stores object files in .OSX and instead of making FAT object files, there are one for each architecture
14:38:31  <CIA-3>  Each architecture got their own targets to make a non-FAT binary and in the end, lipo will merge them into one binary
14:38:34  <CIA-3> glx * r4625 /branch/yapf/Makefile: [YAPF] Fix: removed -lrt for MINGW
14:39:00  <Brianetta> Fixed - five trains sharing duplex track
14:39:19  <Bjarni> "but the other stuff in this commit can't be taken as it's a result of the fix" <-- oops, it's the other way around. The fix is a result from the other changes, but it's the reason why I made the other changes
14:39:21  <Bjarni> oh well
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14:42:49  <CIA-3> bjarni * r4626 /branch/yapf/Makefile: -Cleanup: [YAPF makefile] changed a comment in the makefile to reflect glx's commit regarding Mingw (the line no longer applies to OSX only)
14:43:15  <Bjarni> glx: now that's how to create a lot of new revisions: make then a few lines each and yet they are connected ;)
14:43:24  <Bjarni> :p
14:44:17  <glx> oups I didn't see that comment :)
14:45:43  <Bjarni> I added it an hour ago (in rev 4621)
14:47:50  <KUDr> how it will be for cygwin now
14:47:53  <Darkvater> hmm can someone refresh my memory why we have p->money64 AND p->player_money?
14:47:56  <KUDr> will it work?
14:48:33  <Bjarni> KUDr: I have no idea. It's windows stuff
14:48:36  <KUDr> p->player_money is for compatibility with old savegames?
14:48:55  <Darkvater> KUDr: no it's only a hacked 32-bit version of your real money
14:48:59  <KUDr> Bjarni: yes, but -lrt is invalid for windows
14:49:02  <Darkvater> I think it was for some 'preformance' reasons
14:49:04  <KUDr> i guess
14:49:09  <Darkvater> but I really see no point in keeping it
14:49:21  <glx> KUDr: I don't know about cygwin
14:49:28  <KUDr> ok
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14:51:26  <Darkvater> and what the heck is SubtractMoneyFromPlayerFract() ?
14:51:43  <Bjarni> bbl
14:51:45  <KUDr> it should be probably removed for all Win32
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14:52:04  <Darkvater> hmm, I'll return when more animo is present to discuss this ;)
14:52:15  <Darkvater> I'll have some nurishing food first
14:52:26  <KUDr> good apetite
14:52:39  <Darkvater> thx
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15:04:13  <MeusH> bbl
15:04:14  <MeusH> cya
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16:20:54  * Sacro kicks the british education system
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16:25:53  <Eddi|zuHause> you always kick on people that are already on the ground? :p
16:27:18  <Sacro> you cant get anywhere in this country without a shedload of hassle
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16:56:04  <hylje> what expenses go under the "other" heading
16:57:59  <Sacro> money transfers
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17:05:29  <Sionide> Sacro, what bit of the british education system you kicking?
17:05:33  <Sionide> i managed not too badly ;)
17:06:36  <Sacro> Sionide: im wanting to go to uni and make something of my life
17:06:50  <Sionide> ah, i've already got over that herdle
17:07:01  <Sionide> hurdle*
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17:07:39  <Brianetta> I dropped out of uni
17:07:55  <Sacro> ive dropped out of college twice
17:08:24  <Sionide> i might drop out if i don't do some bloody revision right about now
17:08:27  <Sionide> exams in a week >_<
17:08:33  <Brianetta> Drop out
17:08:35  <Brianetta> Join us
17:08:40  <hylje> how can i get rid of town-owned bridges :x
17:08:47  <Brianetta> hylje: Cheat
17:08:54  <hylje> right
17:11:06  <Scia> hylje: allow removal of more town-owened roads, bridges, etc
17:11:11  <Scia> its a patch option
17:11:27  <Scia> and when you have excellent rating or so you can demolish a bridge
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17:57:54  <hylje> :X the gentoo ebuild for ottd still has quite a lot of dependencies
17:59:11  <Maedhros> what, sdl, png, zlib, and alsa-utils/timidity++? :-P
17:59:49  <Brianetta> New nightly any moment (:
18:00:04  <Scia> :)
18:00:05  <hylje> several media libs, qt, etc
18:00:23  <Scia> qt? o_0
18:00:28  <Maedhros> hylje: qt?! it really shouldn't be depending on that...
18:00:47  <hylje> [ebuild  N    ] x11-libs/qt-3.3.4-r8
18:00:55  <hylje> [ebuild  N    ] x11-libs/gtk+-2.8.8
18:01:09  <Brianetta> 4623
18:02:21  <Maedhros> hylje: echo 'media-sound/timidity++ -arts -gtk -gtk2' >> /etc/portage/package.use
18:02:32  <Maedhros> that should sort out qt and gtk+ anyway
18:04:40  <hylje> im still longing for a dependency-light dedicated build
18:05:16  <Maedhros> well, use the dedicated USE flag ;)
18:05:17  <Brianetta> hylje?
18:05:36  <Brianetta> Oh, you're on Gentoo
18:05:43  <Brianetta> It sucks for stuff like that
18:05:49  <hylje> Maedhros: well, it doesnt make the dependencies any less
18:06:03  <Brianetta> I wanted an xpilot server, but the ebuild tried to merge X libs because the client comes with it
18:06:13  <hylje> ill look if compiling it manually could make it a bit lighter
18:06:20  <Brianetta> hylje: It does
18:06:30  <Brianetta> Don't use an ebuild
18:06:49  <Brianetta> because they suck for any application that has a variable amount of dependencies
18:06:49  <hylje> ebuild's for .4.0 anyway
18:07:01  <Maedhros> hylje: with USE="-png -zlib dedicated" the only dependency is sdl
18:07:04  <Brianetta> They assume the largest number of dependencies
18:07:16  <Brianetta> Maedhros: You don't even need SDL
18:07:33  <Brianetta> Like I said, avoid the ebuild
18:07:49  <Brianetta> Use it for system stuff, but OpenTTD is more flexible than Gentoo
18:08:02  <Brianetta> My nightly server, BTW, is a Gentoo box
18:08:13  <Brianetta> I know what I am talking about (:
18:08:17  *** egladil [] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
18:09:56  <Maedhros> well, i know Gentoo better than i know OpenTTD, so i'll shut up now ;)
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18:15:03  <hylje> zlib should be the only dependency for dedicated?
18:16:12  <Sacro> and that isnt required
18:16:19  <hylje> :>
18:16:26  <Darkvater> it's pretty useless without zlib
18:16:39  <hylje> that was what i meant
18:17:44  <hylje> the source tarball doesnt have really much compiling docs
18:17:56  <hylje> ie. compile-time configuration
18:18:11  <Sacro> im after a decent war game, kinda like settlers/cossacks, any recommendations?
18:19:38  *** tokai|noir [] has joined #openttd
18:20:36  <hylje> hmm, there isnt a ./configure option
18:21:08  <hylje> whats the way im supposed to give it the configuration
18:21:09  <Sacro> i was looking into autoconfigure for openttd
18:21:16  <Sacro> hylje: edit Makefile
18:23:52  <hylje> .x
18:24:47  <Tron> $EDITOR Makefile.config
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18:35:08  <cobratbq> hi guys, got kind of a weird sound problem with OpenTTD
18:35:19  <cobratbq> I've already searched the forums and didn't get an anser
18:35:22  <cobratbq> answer
18:35:52  <cobratbq> symptoms: OpenTTD takes 2 to 3 times longer than it's supposed to to start up
18:36:05  <glx> what OS?
18:36:08  <cobratbq> I don't hear any sound effects nor music (nor anything else you can think)
18:36:10  <cobratbq> WinXP
18:36:12  <cobratbq> SP2 EN
18:36:32  <Brianetta> Updated to include previous saved games for download.
18:36:39  <Darkvater> do you have soundcard?
18:36:56  <cobratbq> Terratec Aureon 7.1 Space
18:37:24  <cobratbq> but when I disable the music (-m null) I still don't get sounds
18:37:33  <cobratbq> but it does startup at normal speed
18:37:53  <glx> maybe a bad
18:38:10  <Darkvater> does the soundcard work properly otherwise?
18:38:11  <cobratbq> can't, I'm using the same files on a laptop and it works fine there
18:38:23  <Darkvater> have you tried the other options for music/sound?
18:38:25  <cobratbq> yes, haven't got a single problem/crash or whatever with my soundcard
18:38:26  <cobratbq> yep
18:38:34  <Darkvater> eg the one in the list if you start openttd with -h
18:38:37  <cobratbq> when i -m null openttd starts up at normal speed
18:38:42  <cobratbq> but
18:38:47  <cobratbq> I stilll don't get sound
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18:39:00  <cobratbq> have tried -s win32/sdl and -m win32/dmusic
18:39:16  <Sacro> cobratbq: latest sound drivers?
18:39:19  <Darkvater> and '-m dmusic'
18:39:22  <Darkvater> or -m win32?
18:39:35  <cobratbq> Sacro: yep
18:39:40  <cobratbq> Sacro: non-beta
18:40:26  <cobratbq> start with no add. options: very slow, no music, no sound, get ticking sound after about half a minute
18:40:39  <cobratbq> start with dmusic: the same
18:40:52  <glx> dmusic is the default
18:41:00  <cobratbq> start with win32: start immediately but no music/sound/whatever
18:41:22  <cobratbq> start with null: starts immediately, but no sound/whatever
18:41:36  <Darkvater> that is weird..I think it's your sound driver
18:41:41  <glx> can you hear the music when you open the .gm in a player?
18:41:50  <Darkvater> I have two winxp SP2 machines here and I get music both with dmusic and win32
18:42:12  <glx> smae here, just a problem with music volume
18:42:21  <Sacro> cobratbq: which version of OpenTTD?
18:42:39  <cobratbq> glx: i hear music playing with mplayer2
18:42:55  <cobratbq> 0.4.7 and nightly
18:43:01  <cobratbq> but had it months ago too
18:43:09  <cobratbq> with nightly then and with 0.4.3 i think
18:43:47  <hylje> does the .4.7 installer cleanly upgrade from .4.5
18:43:56  <hylje> as in, any possible issues
18:44:21  <cobratbq> (btw problem still exists if I don't copy the GM-folder)
18:44:26  <YoG> hi, when I open the map, the games gets real slow... does anyone knows anything about that?
18:44:39  <glx> YoG: map size?
18:44:49  <YoG> even with the smallest
18:45:04  <YoG> glx: thats 64x64 right?
18:45:19  <glx> that's the smallest yes
18:45:58  <YoG> glx: worth mentioning: I'm running it on a linux handheld
18:46:04  <Maedhros> for anyone interested, i've filed a Gentoo bug about openttd depending on libsdl when building a dedicated server:
18:46:13  <glx> YoG: CPU maybe :)
18:46:32  <YoG> glx: 400MHz
18:46:51  <glx> you have sound or not?
18:47:02  <YoG> glx: with sound
18:47:15  <glx> try without ( -m null -s null)
18:47:31  <YoG> glx: checking...
18:48:00  <Darkvater> yeah timidity is a bitch
18:48:22  <Darkvater> cobratbq: did other versions work properly? eg 0.4.6 or 0.4.5 with sound?
18:48:26  <Darkvater> eh music I mean
18:48:40  <cobratbq> havent tried .4.6 and .4.5 but I suspect they don't
18:48:48  <cobratbq> because .4.3 and the nightly then didn't work either
18:49:05  <YoG> glx: nope... still stuck, without the map the game runs just fine
18:49:10  <Tron> start 0.4.7 in a console
18:49:18  <Tron> with openttd -d driver=9
18:49:59  <cobratbq> DirectMusic: Get object failed (lots of times :p)
18:50:04  <cobratbq> sound probed @ win32
18:50:44  <Tron> copy&paste the all you entered + the full output somewhere
18:50:46  <Tron> NOT IN THIS CHANNEL
18:51:00  <cobratbq> hehe, let me guess... flooding :P
18:51:01  <glx> or screenshot
18:51:02  <Tron> pastebin or something
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18:51:29  <glx> because copy/paste from ottd windows console is impossible
18:51:29  <YoG> glx: another idea?
18:51:39  <Darkvater> glx: no it's not
18:51:51  <cobratbq> nope it isn't when u use 'edit' option of the console window
18:51:57  <Tron> even the windows shell can do copy&paste
18:52:07  <Darkvater> glx: only winxp's c&p sucks
18:52:23  <Tron> it's way more complicated than from xterm/rxvt/any other terminal emulator, but it's possible
18:52:25  <Darkvater> in win2k you could just drag and copy, XP has this totally braindead and retarded method
18:52:40  <Sacro> grrrrr, cant get nightly past zonealarm
18:52:48  *** jnmbk_ is now known as jnmbk
18:53:15  <cobratbq> 4 lines output:
18:53:16  <cobratbq> dbg: Loading drivers...
18:53:16  <cobratbq> dbg: Successfully probed sound driver "win32"
18:53:21  <cobratbq> dbg: Successfully probed music driver "dmusic"
18:53:21  <cobratbq> dbg: Successfully probed video driver "win32"
18:53:26  <cobratbq> dbg: DirectMusic: Get object failed
18:53:27  <cobratbq> etc.
18:53:30  <cobratbq> (5 lines :P)
18:53:34  <hylje> liar
18:53:48  <cobratbq> get object failed keeps repeating
18:53:50  <Sacro> hylje: who?
18:54:44  <hylje> :p
18:54:55  <hylje> not anyone really
18:55:04  <cobratbq> directx 9.0c
18:55:12  <hylje> but that "4, oh 5 lines" ;)
18:55:36  <glx> cobratbq: where did you put the .gm ?
18:56:03  <cobratbq> in a folder 'gm' in the gamefolder
18:56:16  <cobratbq> d:\games\OpenTTD\gm
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18:56:45  <hylje> the console commands wiki page doesnt really have anything concerning a custom new game
18:57:30  <hylje> liek making it in subarctic instead of temperate
18:58:00  <Brianetta> Not sure it's possible
18:59:02  <hylje> :|
19:00:34  <Sacro> grr, ISP's b0rkified
19:00:38  <cobratbq> (installing in default directory doesn't work either)
19:03:12  *** tokai|mdlx [] has joined #openttd
19:04:06  <cobratbq> trying a reboot, brb
19:04:07  *** cobratbq [] has quit []
19:04:25  <Darkvater> Tron: we should've printed out the error code in the debug message :)
19:04:37  <Tron> i didn't write that stuff
19:04:51  <Tron> i just f...iddled with it until it really worked
19:04:58  <Darkvater> :)
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19:07:50  <cobratbq> reboot, start openttd without using any kind of sound/music device in advance doesn't work either :-s
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19:08:58  <Darkvater> cobratbq: I suppose you don't have a compiler/debugger at hand :)
19:09:15  <cobratbq> well...
19:09:37  <cobratbq> at the moment not
19:09:50  <cobratbq> I could install VS2005 but haven't done it yet...
19:10:29  <cobratbq> If it could help I would like to try it, but not today... :)
19:10:38  <Darkvater> shiiit, updated opera and lost all my bookmarks :S
19:10:39  <Darkvater> dammit
19:10:52  <Darkvater> cobratbq: well you are the only one that can help becuse it works for us
19:10:58  <hylje> opera sux like that
19:11:21  <cobratbq> yeah i figured I was a loner in this problem :P
19:11:27  <Triffid_Hunter> maybe its just using a different directory for your settings? if so, just close, copy bookmarks, and reopen
19:11:32  <cobratbq> well guys, thanks for now, I'll try that another time
19:12:19  <Triffid_Hunter> it does that on windows if i remember correctly
19:12:28  <Darkvater> np
19:12:41  <Darkvater> dude wtf
19:12:44  <Triffid_Hunter> in linux it just uses ~
19:12:46  <Darkvater> a
19:12:48  <Darkvater> oh shit
19:12:50  <Triffid_Hunter> ~/.opera
19:12:51  <Darkvater> he, remember now :P
19:12:59  <Darkvater> I installed opera as administrator and then ran it
19:13:04  <Darkvater> of course all thes ettings were gone :P
19:14:13  <Triffid_Hunter> heh that'll do it
19:15:55  * Darkvater installs bash-wdiget
19:17:00  <cobratbq> for the record: via a Win2K VMWare virtual machine there's no problem :P
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19:17:58  <Darkvater> cobratbq: that uses a normal soundcard :p
19:18:09  <cobratbq> yeah i know
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19:26:17  <Sacro> bbl all
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19:37:49  <Bjarni> do anybody know if the gentoo liveCD contains GCC?
19:38:32  <Maedhros> Bjarni: i don't think so
19:38:51  <Bjarni> hmm
19:39:02  <Bjarni> then which CD image should I pick when I want to compile stuff?
19:41:01  <Maedhros> i don't think any of the Gentoo CDs contain gcc, as they're only really there to be able to chroot into an environment with a compiler
19:41:22  <Bjarni> :(
19:41:29  <Bjarni> then how do I get started?
19:41:41  <Maedhros> slax seems to come with gcc though:
19:43:54  <Bjarni> hmm, what is slax?
19:44:08  <Maedhros> a slackware based livecd
19:45:02  <Maedhros> the gentoo livecds are pretty much pointless unless you want to install gentoo with them, or for some basic system administration
19:46:27  <izhirahider> Bjarni: pick one live-cd from list :)
19:47:40  <Darkvater> ~grrr
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19:51:12  <MeusH> hello
19:53:52  <Bjarni> hi MeusH
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19:58:50  <black_Nightmare> hey :p
19:59:22  <XeryusTC> hi
20:00:51  <black_Nightmare> any of you heard of a DBSet 2005 Grf?
20:02:18  <Bjarni> no
20:02:27  <Bjarni> what's a Grf?
20:02:37  <Bjarni> please enlighten us
20:02:38  <black_Nightmare> graphic files
20:02:39  <Bjarni> :p
20:02:42  <black_Nightmare> are you new here?
20:02:43  <hylje> no really
20:02:53  <Bjarni> !slap black_Nightmare
20:02:54  <jmp_ghli> >Bjarni> Bjarni drops black_Nightmare into river Danube with six debian install CDs.
20:03:09  <Bjarni> I have been part of the developer team since 0.1.4
20:03:16  <black_Nightmare> hehe.... :))
20:04:00  <Bjarni> I meant more like sure we know the DB set
20:04:12  <Bjarni> it was kind of a silly question
20:04:41  <black_Nightmare> well was just looking at server list from 0.4.7 and thought I'll try this one only the title said "[1920-2050]DBSet 2005 Grf needed" so..meh
20:04:49  <black_Nightmare> bjarni..fair enough, no actual harm meant ;)
20:05:19  <Bjarni> ahh, you are asking for an URL to get it
20:05:24  <Bjarni> that's something different
20:05:26  <Bjarni> MB made it
20:05:31  <black_Nightmare> ok ty
20:05:37  <black_Nightmare> should be easier to search for..brb
20:05:53  <XeryusTC>
20:05:58  <Bjarni>
20:06:09  <black_Nightmare> ooo... I never noticed that xeryus....ty
20:06:10  <Bjarni> black_Nightmare: no need to search, I just linked to it
20:06:32  <black_Nightmare> I know but I mean...a grf search link...I'll have to remember that for other times
20:08:30  <Bjarni> <XeryusTC> <-- when did we get that one?
20:08:34  <Bjarni> I never noticed it before
20:08:52  <XeryusTC> Bjarni: it comes by in the ttdp graphics forums once in a while
20:10:21  <XeryusTC> signals and the electric poles are placed at the same spot sometimes *makes screenshot*
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20:12:25  <Bjarni> "Thomas the Tank Engine Set" <-- hehe, some people make untraditional grf sets :)
20:12:29  <XeryusTC> <- if a dev would take a look
20:12:40  <XeryusTC> Bjarni: that set looks awesome
20:12:54  * XeryusTC is going to try it when it is released :)
20:12:57  <black_Nightmare> one dumb question...
20:13:09  <black_Nightmare> can you select different graphic files before starting your own map?
20:13:17  *** Sacro [n=Sacro@adsl-83-100-181-201.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
20:13:20  <black_Nightmare> or do you have to like edit the openttd file beforehand each time?
20:13:32  <XeryusTC> you need to edit the config file
20:13:39  <Sacro> evening all
20:13:54  <XeryusTC> heya sacro
20:13:56  <MeusH> hey Sacro
20:14:06  <Sacro> what have i missed?
20:14:17  <black_Nightmare> xeryus...ah hm thanks anyhow
20:14:28  <MeusH> black_Nightmare: AFAIK, not YET possible
20:14:47  <black_Nightmare> xeryus..would putting two graphic files together mean you'll have all vehicles from both files in one single list?
20:14:53  <black_Nightmare> or no..its only one at a time?
20:14:56  <XeryusTC> sometimes it does
20:15:01  <black_Nightmare> hm..thanks
20:15:04  <XeryusTC> sometimes one overwrites the others IDs
20:15:15  <black_Nightmare> think I'll stick to this pikka set but in case I want some change I'll consider it
20:15:45  <XeryusTC> i had that problem with tracks/tunnels yesterday, i put the enhanced tunnel graphics before the gray track graphics, the result was that the enhanced tunnel graphics were replaced by the grey track tunnels
20:16:43  <MeusH> :P
20:16:48  <black_Nightmare> quick question..
20:17:02  <black_Nightmare> do you still need new grfs even to just speculate on a server that uses them?
20:17:10  <XeryusTC> yes
20:17:38  <Darkvater> spectate
20:17:55  <black_Nightmare> sorry...I sometimes spell weird for no reason
20:18:00  <XeryusTC> unless it is at the beginning of the game and there isnt anything used from those sets yet
20:18:11  <Sacro> KUDr: you around?
20:18:28  <KUDr> moment... must look
20:18:34  <KUDr> i seem
20:18:51  <KUDr> yes
20:18:54  <KUDr> i am
20:19:04  <Sacro> just want to say, on , the train should go straight on rather than branch, as branching goes next to the station but not into it
20:19:19  <KUDr> i know
20:19:23  <black_Nightmare> bjarni...
20:19:25  <KUDr> but i need savegame
20:19:33  <Sacro> ahh right :)
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20:19:53  <black_Nightmare> I looked at that website and there's both 'db set xl (V0.82)' and 'db set (V0.5)'
20:19:58  <black_Nightmare> I'm guessing I would need the latter?
20:20:11  *** Trippledence [] has joined #openttd
20:20:49  <XeryusTC> black_Nightmare: i think that there is a difference between "db set" and "db set xl"
20:23:01  *** Trippledence [] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
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20:26:20  <Bjarni> black_Nightmare: I think people use XL. It's newer and uses more advanced features
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20:27:16  <black_Nightmare> hmm ok I'll try put XL in 0.4.7 and join this server and see
20:27:19  <Bjarni> I think the other one is kind of backward compatible or something. It was made once for old versions of the patch so it just stayed online or something
20:27:21  <black_Nightmare> ty and..brb
20:30:28  <black_Nightmare> this would be the right format at bottom of the openttd file?  '[newgrf]' then next line is the filename of the db set?
20:30:58  <Bjarni> [netgrf]
20:31:05  <Bjarni> name of grf file.grf
20:31:17  <Darkvater> hmm I have bought this tender for my train in tropicsetw.grf
20:31:19  <XeryusTC> [newgrf] Bjarni :P
20:31:20  <Brianetta> s/t/w/
20:31:20  <Darkvater> does it do anything?
20:31:38  <XeryusTC> Darkvater: look at stats?
20:31:48  <Brianetta> Darkvater: UKRS brake vans do nothing but impose their speed limit
20:31:53  <Darkvater> all it says is weight 45T
20:32:01  <Brianetta> Simetimes you add something because it's right
20:32:06  <Brianetta> and your train ain't one without one
20:32:21  <Sacro> it'll make sense with realistic braking
20:32:59  <Brianetta> Sacro: You can add one to a 100km/h train running with many 70km.h trains and it won't keep running ahead and stopping at red signals
20:33:16  <Brianetta> then taking an age to accelerate
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20:33:18  <Darkvater> OMG
20:33:21  <Brianetta> and delaying even the slower ones
20:33:24  <Darkvater> I think the balance of this set is a bit off
20:33:26  <Brianetta> DV?
20:33:46  <Darkvater> 1946 and I get a new vehicle proposal for an engine that costs half a million pounds o_O
20:33:58  <Brianetta> Sounds right
20:34:01  <MeusH> inflation, eh?
20:34:04  <Brianetta> War time steel shortages (:
20:34:11  <Darkvater> hmm weight it costs only 2300 pounds in buy-list
20:34:13  <Darkvater> :p
20:34:13  <MeusH> hmm I'm 1946 right now and I'm waiting 10 years for a new vehicle
20:34:21  <Bjarni> goodnight
20:34:35  <Darkvater> I think peter1138 forgot to update the preview-window
20:34:55  <Bjarni> <XeryusTC>	[newgrf] Bjarni :P <-- ok, I made a typo, but I guess black_Nightmare is clever enough to detect that. I mean, he is in Canada, not USA
20:35:00  <Bjarni> ;)
20:35:32  <XeryusTC> hehe, i was just "mierenneuken" (*calls Darkvater's to translate*)
20:35:56  <Bjarni> anyway I'm out of here (for today)
20:36:05  <Brianetta> later, Bjarni
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20:36:12  <XeryusTC> laterz
20:36:13  <black_Nightmare> hmm....guess the db grf does work..I'm spectate on the map and so far no problem
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20:49:45  <Brianetta> I have music in my game (:
20:49:46  <Brianetta> yey
20:49:48  <Xaroth> Hm, Maybe i'm missing a part of the wiki, but is there a command line arg that automatically starts a multiplayer game (and join a server for instance)
20:49:50  <Brianetta> I made MP3s
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20:51:03  <glx> Xaroth: -n [ip#player:port]
20:51:05  <XeryusTC> Xaroth: -n <address> iirc
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20:52:09  <Xaroth> #player as in, 'use that player name' ? :o
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20:52:51  <hylje> obviously
20:56:10  <glx> Xaroth: player number indeed
20:57:33  <black_Nightmare> hehe having two E62 electric engines just chugging along with a somewhat-long freight trains.... 37mph :p
20:57:37  <black_Nightmare> but they earn nice profits somehow
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20:58:06  <glx> black_Nightmare: freight wagons may have speed limit :)
20:58:15  <black_Nightmare> nah its the engine... 37mph itself
20:58:23  <black_Nightmare> wagons are good to 50
20:58:27  <glx> ha ok :)
20:58:27  <hylje> not enough kW
21:00:20  <hylje> btw, which engine got the best pulling power
21:00:29  <black_Nightmare> E62: 73t .. 966hp .. 37mph .. ,502/yr .. 96% reliability (breakdown are reduced)
21:00:35  <black_Nightmare> thats what this little engine is :p
21:01:05  <black_Nightmare> best would be the BR 194 but its veryyyy expensive buy price this early on lol
21:01:31  <black_Nightmare> 4400hp tho
21:04:11  <black_Nightmare> and I'm alone on this server
21:04:27  <black_Nightmare> I guess most people in germany are at work still or something
21:04:52  <XeryusTC> most people in germany are watching a movie on tv or something like that :)
21:04:56  <black_Nightmare> lol :p
21:07:18  <Xaroth> germany? it's 11pm there :P
21:08:13  <XeryusTC> i know, thats why they're watching movies :)
21:08:54  <black_Nightmare> 11pm .. hm that figures
21:09:24  <black_Nightmare> wonder why they left this server on at year 1951 when it'll probably end by the time anyone wakes up
21:10:52  <Celestar> yo
21:11:17  <Celestar> Tron: well that makes two of us
21:11:27  <Tron> ?
21:11:46  <Celestar> about the having checked 1500 revisions and not knowing what the owner-leak is caused by
21:12:05  <Tron> i ran a server with 7 AIs for several hours now
21:12:11  <Tron> no sign of owner corruption
21:12:20  <Tron> whereas in that save it was all over the place
21:12:32  <Celestar> I see you have the same ideas about finding the problem as I do (=
21:13:02  <Tron> though tests can never proof the absense of bugs, only their presense
21:13:24  <Celestar> that is true.
21:13:30  <Tron> but even more than an hour of code review didn't bring a single hint
21:13:55  <Celestar> Tron: I was thinking it happens when a player gets deleted (bankrupcy) ...
21:13:57  <Celestar> but .
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21:14:32  <glx> Celestar: <-- this one works better than my previous try
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21:15:36  <Celestar> Tron: ....
21:15:38  <Xaroth> hmf.. after fucking around with C# for about 2 years now, c/c++ still puzzles me.. you 'think' you get it... but then within 2 lines you have absolutely no clue anymore :P
21:15:49  <Celestar> Tron: economy.c:334
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21:16:57  <Celestar> Tron: hm .. even that shouldn't cause it ..
21:17:16  <Celestar> Tron: but wait. one AI is taken over by another AI.
21:17:27  <Tron> mom...
21:18:19  <Tron> Celestar: the wrong tile owner is the _human_ player
21:18:29  <Celestar> Tron: maybe the human player bought the AI?
21:18:46  <Celestar> what happens to tunnelbridge_cmd.c:1086 then.
21:18:47  <Celestar> ?
21:19:04  <Celestar> and especially how did that line look in previous versions.
21:19:18  <Tron> the human player can't buy two pieces of an AI track where a train is on
21:19:55  <Tron> mom, going back to r3610
21:20:20  <Celestar> and yet, this is as good as an idea I have.
21:20:20  <black_Nightmare> hmm a question re newgrf's again....could you still use maps/servers that relay on the original vehicles still?
21:20:29  <black_Nightmare> (just checking if I was right)
21:20:43  <Tron> i remember fixing something in ChangeTileOwner_TunnelBridge
21:20:50  <Tron> but afair it was harmless
21:20:53  <Celestar> well.
21:20:59  <Celestar> maybe you assumed it was harmless?
21:21:55  <Tron> mom, checking log
21:22:27  <Tron> r3906
21:23:24  <Tron> yes, it is harmless
21:23:34  <Tron> it always thought it was a transport route under a bridge
21:23:35  <Celestar> agree.
21:23:53  <Tron> so it changed grass to grass (because it assumed it was rail)
21:24:19  <Tron> and changed the owner of water to OWNER_NONE (because it assumed it was a road)
21:25:17  <black_Nightmare> another question..if a passenger-carrying engine mentions 'powered wagon: +679hp' does that mean adding one passenger coach to this engine would give it more hp there?
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21:25:30  <Tron> the code doesn't trigger for a bridge middle part when the stuff under the bridge is not owned by the deleted player
21:25:31  <Celestar> hm what about r3837 ?
21:25:39  <Celestar> hey RichK67
21:25:43  <RichK67> heya
21:26:12  <XeryusTC> heya RichK67 :)
21:26:18  <Tron> no, the code before was cryptic, but correct
21:26:22  <MeusH> hey RichK67
21:26:28  <Celestar> Tron: my left ball tells me it has something to do with players being removed.
21:26:39  <black_Nightmare> I asked because it states that the engine itself is only 1hp meh (weird heh)
21:26:40  <RichK67> celestar - i tried to add a "terrain progress" meter, but it cant display in the middle of processing - the screen doesnt update
21:26:46  <MeusH> RichK67: were you asked about your compiler yet? :)
21:26:51  <Tron> RichK67: (eg. railtype vs. railtypemask - both describe what railtypes there are, but one uses 2x as many bits, but is far more flexible.) <-- they serve a different purpose, one is in no way a replacement for the other
21:26:55  <MeusH> Do you use VC6?
21:27:06  <RichK67> no - i use MingW32
21:27:18  <MeusH> hood
21:27:21  <MeusH> good*
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21:27:53  <glx> RichK67: did you read my PM?
21:27:56  <RichK67> tron - i was trying to explain the difference between a simple 2 bit thingy and the 4 bit thingy...
21:27:59  <Celestar> hm Darkvater you there?
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21:28:12  <Celestar> RichK67: I know. forget it.
21:28:15  <Darkvater> yeah
21:28:18  <Tron> Celestar: it can't be buying a player, because the rail route in that savegame was removed
21:28:22  <Celestar> RichK67: unless you feel like rewriting the GUI.
21:28:24  <Darkvater> playing RichK67's africa scenario :)
21:28:27  <Tron> Celestar: if you buy a player you get his rails
21:28:40  <RichK67> glx - err... hang on... i went to bed last night, and ive been out all day (& most of this evening) photographing a wedding... give me a couple of mins to catch up :)
21:28:46  <Darkvater> it's a good way of finding bugs in the game, just sit down and play; don't worry about anything else
21:28:50  <Celestar> Darkvater: do you vote for or against dropping VC6 support ?
21:28:53  <Tron> RichK67: your example was plain wrong
21:29:11  <Celestar> Tron: and what if you remove those rails later? maybe the chain of events causes it?
21:29:35  <Darkvater> Celestar: I never quite liked VC6. It is stupid and has required several workarounds to work properly. But it was always managed with a little work to keep compatible with it
21:29:56  <Tron> Celestar: if nobody buys the the AI though, the rails get removed
21:30:01  <RichK67> tron: ok, in detail, but that it was the purpose of bit-encoding vs. value encoding i was trying to explain to Mr D. so, i chose a bad example; bah!! :)
21:30:06  <Xaroth> Hm, the master server uses UDP for the game listing, correct?
21:31:00  <Darkvater> yes
21:31:13  <Tron> Celestar: yep, that AI got removed
21:31:14  <Celestar> Darkvater: but we're running into more and more and more problems.
21:31:19  <Xaroth> explains why my router's firewall is going berserk...
21:31:26  <Tron> Celestar: Check Under Sarninghall
21:31:30  <Darkvater> Celestar: such as?
21:31:34  <Celestar> Tron: then we have to identify the problem on what happens with an AI is removed.
21:31:42  <Tron> Celestar: click the sign and look at the player colour
21:31:48  <Tron> Celestar: there's no player with that colour
21:31:50  <RichK67> glx: thanks - yes, i read your one about how it could work via threading... that is (currently) about 25 miles way above my knowledge, so I think easiest thing is to put debug output in the routine, so if someone wants to see progress, they run openttd -d 0
21:32:12  <Celestar> Darkvater: 1) KUDr has quite some uglyness in YAPF due to VC6 and openttd.dsw is causing more problems as well.
21:32:27  <Darkvater> openttd.dsw NEVER caused any troubles in the last 2 years
21:32:44  <Darkvater> although I can believe the YAPF troubles
21:32:45  <RichK67> DV: did you come up with a solution to the saving-scenario-with-current-network-player-set problem?
21:32:48  <Tron> RichK67: debug level 0 is always printed
21:33:10  <Darkvater> hell, openttd.dsw is even easier to edit than openttd.sln
21:33:10  <Celestar> unless you have -DNO_DEBUG_MESSAGES
21:33:25  <Celestar> Darkvater: then sync with KUDr about the problems (=
21:33:31  <RichK67> tron: yup, but only if you run from a dos window... if you run direct, its hidden isnt it?
21:33:32  <Tron> then there is no way to print debug messages at all
21:33:46  <Darkvater> RichK67: he, yes, but haven't hd time/will/cats to fix it yet..will do so sooon
21:33:56  <Celestar> Tron: maybe if you kick the computer hard enough?
21:33:58  <RichK67> okies
21:33:59  <Darkvater> RichK67: you can redirect it to the console with 'developer 2' :)
21:34:17  <Tron> Celestar: DEBUG() is a null macro with that define
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21:34:26  <RichK67> what is the format? i would like to use that
21:34:28  <Darkvater> now if you excuse me I have to get back to my network
21:34:28  <Celestar> Tron: so do we agree that something went wrong with deleting the AI?
21:34:35  <Celestar> Darkvater: have fun.
21:34:37  <Celestar> cu tomorrow
21:34:39  <Darkvater> :)
21:34:48  <Tron> Celestar: i'm not sure, maybe it happend shortly before
21:34:48  <Darkvater> tropic is haaard
21:34:50  <RichK67> lol - happy gamers :)
21:35:02  <Tron> Celestar: i'm also worried about the stray rail tiles everywhere
21:35:04  <Darkvater> I have a major headache now though
21:35:17  <Celestar> Tron: I think the problem is related ?
21:35:28  <Darkvater> I solved the first one today: giving a face to the manager (time required: 20 minutes to get the right face and not click through)
21:35:43  <Darkvater> now I'm picking a spot for my HQ...very important decision
21:35:45  <RichK67> DV - have you looked at the minimap terrain view - i sculpted the rivers even when they dont have water in... its pretty accurate too... took HOURS!! (days really)
21:36:11  <RichK67> they appear as faint trace lines - check out the congo basin :)
21:36:18  <Darkvater> yeah...pretty amazed at that africa map
21:36:21  <Darkvater> really really cool
21:36:43  <Tron> Celestar: look at the tiles NW of Upper Sinnington
21:36:44  <RichK67> when i/we sort out multi-climates, i will do the same with the USA
21:36:52  <Tron> Celestar: they have the wrong owner, too
21:36:56  <Darkvater> you could've put more oil wells in Iraq though ;p
21:37:23  <Tron> Celestar: but it's impossible there was a bridge above, because normally those tiles should have signals (but they are missing)
21:37:32  <RichK67> lol - this is a post-Bush, post-insurgency map ;)
21:37:50  <Darkvater> hehe
21:38:19  <Tron> Rubidium: ?
21:38:23  <LIIT> are theese maps available somewhere online ? Would love to see them :-)
21:38:33  <Celestar> Tron: yeah. something in that savegame is extremely broken.
21:38:35  <RichK67> we are going to HAVE to code the MacDonalds in every town over 50 pop patch ;)
21:38:37  <Darkvater> LIIT: it's bundled with the release
21:38:48  <LIIT> lol, oki
21:38:51  <Celestar> Tron: and I have never seen something remotely similar.
21:39:08  * LIIT slaps himself for not noticeing
21:39:17  <Celestar> even tho I've been sitting through hours of AI games.
21:39:32  <Celestar> and I have seen AIs to go broke in the dozens
21:39:32  <Darkvater> LIIT: although you'd better get the scenarios zip from sourceforge
21:39:45  <Darkvater> the africa and canyonero map are broken in the release
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21:39:51  <LIIT> Darkvater: roger roger
21:40:05  <Celestar> Darkvater: the new ones should be in 0.4.8 as well.
21:40:09  * RichK67 blushes... damn PNGload :(
21:40:17  <Darkvater> yep
21:40:20  <Celestar> ok we have a number of "bugs" we can hardly solve for 0.4.8
21:40:41  <hylje> :<
21:40:48  <Tron> Celestar: which are?
21:40:49  <Darkvater> I had Tron asking earlier if we should put the reworked MS into 0.4.8.
21:40:55  <Celestar> Tron: 1) the one we're talking about.
21:41:00  <Celestar> Tron: 2) the combo signal problem
21:41:03  <Darkvater> it is a new feature but actually not and it does work a lot better
21:41:06  <RichK67> DV: can you test a TGP map to see if it has the same problem; i use the PNGload "VOID" tile code... so i could have same problem
21:41:25  <Darkvater> RichK67: which one?
21:41:49  <Tron> 1) i think it's some kind of hiccup, some custom patch, nuclear weapons tests, ufos, cosmic rays, dust, the usual causes for stuff breaking
21:41:50  <RichK67> any - just d/l TGP, and see if it creates a bad map
21:42:00  <Darkvater> hmm
21:42:05  <Celestar> Tron: 3) dunno about the wrongfully bad signal problem. glx has done some work.
21:42:07  <Tron> 2) the one with the two trains?
21:42:22  <RichK67>
21:42:28  <Darkvater> RichK67: not good
21:42:31  <RichK67> i dont know how to check it
21:42:31  <Celestar> RichK67: we NEVER compute a TileIndex from X and Y coordinates manually.
21:42:51  <RichK67> aaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrggggggggghhhhhhhhhh... i created TGP when you still did.....
21:43:05  <Celestar> Tron: yes. there no way the info could propagate to required signals with the current system.
21:43:15  <LIIT> hmm, 2) is my bug, and it really annoys me *sniff*
21:43:22  <Darkvater> RichK67: < just use this to test
21:43:23  <Celestar> RichK67: I mean things like x * MapSizeX() + y
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21:43:37  <Tron> Celestar: it's technically no bug, the signals works exactly according to their specification
21:43:39  <RichK67> if there was a guide called "how to convert your old map accessors to the new format" - i would be happy :)
21:43:43  <Darkvater> RichK67: and to fix if you uncomment that line. Yes ugly hack, but works
21:43:46  <Celestar> LIIT: yes me too, but without a whole new signalling concept it won't work.
21:43:48  <RichK67> ty DV
21:43:48  <Celestar> Tron: agree.
21:44:00  <Celestar> Tron: it is rather annoying anyways (=
21:44:08  <Darkvater> RichK67: easier than me getting a whole new checkout, patching, compiling etc :)
21:44:10  <LIIT> Celestar: I was actually not sure if it was a bug, or if the signals really are supposed to work like that
21:44:13  <Celestar> LIIT: and technically it is no bug.
21:44:16  <RichK67> okies - thanks
21:44:27  <Celestar> LIIT: the signals are supposed to work like that (see Tron's statement)
21:44:43  <Tron> <Darkvater> it is a new feature but actually not and it does work a lot better <--- it changes the savegame format though, we have to be _very_ careful not to mess up
21:45:03  <Darkvater> damn I always forget some things
21:45:17  <Darkvater> 20:18 <Tron> we have to be _very_ careful with changes which change the savegame revision
21:45:19  <RichK67> sorry DV... i dont quite follow that patch (im not console-aware ;) )
21:45:29  <Celestar> LIIT: and yes I agree that it has to be changed, but there is NO chance that this will happen before 0.5.0.
21:45:34  <Darkvater> RichK67: just goto the console and type 'scrollto 1'
21:45:43  <RichK67> ok
21:45:46  <Darkvater> it will check all edge-tiles for validness
21:45:53  <Darkvater> scrollto-abuse
21:45:56  <RichK67> ok-dokey :)
21:45:59  <LIIT> Celestar: okis *sniff* But it will give me something to look forward too :-D
21:46:29  <Celestar> LIIT: yeah there's tons of other stuff to look forward to in 0.5.0 (hopefully)
21:46:49  <LIIT> hehe, I look forward to 0.4.8 already :-)
21:46:54  <Celestar> hehe (=
21:47:07  <Celestar> we have a number of features we HOPE to have in 0.5.0 that will improve gameplay
21:47:09  <LIIT> But PBS will be nice aswell - and electric rails
21:47:21  <Celestar> PBS is rather 0.5.1 but it shall be seen.
21:47:45  <Celestar> Tron: tomorrow, I'll have a look at the signal problem I've had (created) today, and the reverse train on bridge problem, k?
21:47:49  <LIIT> Haven't tried PBS, switched from ttdpatch to ottd before it was added
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21:49:17  <glx> Celestar: <-- this one works better than my previous try
21:49:21  <RichK67> DV: if scrollto 1 doesnt bomb with the patch, does that mean it is OK?
21:49:32  <Celestar> glx: I'll have that checked tomorrow.
21:49:51  <glx> Celestar: it's available only when I'm online
21:50:21  <Celestar> Tron: can you have a look at glx' patch.
21:50:26  <Celestar> ?
21:50:33  <Celestar> because I havew no time today
21:50:41  <Tron> no, page does not exist
21:50:44  <Tron> or some other kind of error
21:50:50  <Tron> it's french and has no error code
21:51:15  <RichK67> do you guys have a holiday on monday, or is it back to work for you?
21:51:18  <Darkvater> RichK67: yes if you don't get an assert it's ok
21:51:32  <glx> Tron: what does it says?
21:51:34  <RichK67> DV: fantastic - all OK then... phew.. TGP passes :)
21:51:35  <Tron> oh, there is the error code: very _tiny_ in the middle of the text
21:51:36  <Tron> 404
21:51:39  <Celestar> ok.
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21:51:46  <Celestar> I'm out.
21:52:17  <Celestar> Hackykid's gone again ?
21:52:18  <Celestar> (=
21:52:49  <glx> Tron: I renamed it
21:53:33  <Celestar> ok cu
21:53:40  <Tron> that just pretends depots are one-way rails
21:53:50  <Tron> which isn't the truth either
21:54:29  <Tron> (and btw: there are symbolic names for this)
21:55:50  <glx> yes I should use TRACK_BIT_X and TRACK_BIT_Y
21:57:32  <RichK67> Celestar: i dont think TGP needs a progress meter - even 2048x2048 only takes 30secs to do the TGP part... its the rest that add towns, industries etc that are the problem, and i have no idea how i can get it to display & update in the middle of the generation routine
21:58:05  *** egladil [] has quit []
22:02:25  <Vornicus> um
22:02:53  <Vornicus> Game generation /desperately/ needs a progress meter.  30s is a /very/ long time to appear to hang someone's computer.
22:04:24  <Sacro> even a %age displayed
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22:05:18  <glx> but you can't display any window while generating
22:05:29  <RichK67> vornicus: nope, 3 mins is a looooooooooong time... TGP is positively super-speedy ;)
22:05:52  <RichK67> yup - best i can offer atm is an output in the debug channel
22:05:56  <Vornicus> 10s is a long time.
22:06:30  <Xaroth> anything slower than 'instant' is long for some people...
22:06:34  <black_Nightmare> there any reason for tenderless steam engines being randomly placed backward? (first and only engine on the train)
22:06:51  <Vornicus> especially if the thing appears to freeze.
22:07:32  <Sacro> cant you thread it?
22:08:33  <RichK67> vorn: nothing can be (currently) done about it... once the processing thread enters generation (or any other routine), the screen update thread ceases. it can be threaded i suppose, but to answer the question: No, <i>I</i> cant thread it... i havent the foggiest how to
22:09:05  *** Jenkz [] has quit []
22:09:43  <Sacro> have a look at how the saveload function does it
22:09:46  <RichK67> i actually have the routine currently updating a dialog that displays the % done in 10% steps; but the screen update isnt done until the thread is complete... so all you see is (eventually) TGP: 100% done
22:10:32  <RichK67> no thanks, sacro. i have better things to spend time on right now, than trying to understand complex C intricacies i dont understand... leave it to those that do
22:11:27  <RichK67> what i can do is add a dialog box that reports (albeit silently) the progress. someone else who understands can solve how it gets displayed
22:11:48  <Tron> RichK67: there are no different threads which hang like you're talking about
22:11:52  <Tron> it's just one thread
22:13:11  <MeusH> RichK67: It's difficult, but you could take a look and try to reproduce the map-downloading progress bar
22:13:12  <glx> RichK67: it's like I explained in the PM
22:13:23  <RichK67> ok - if i force a call to DrawDirtyWindows() or whatever it calls (code not infront of me right now)... it hangs when attempting to update the status line bar with the currency amount
22:14:06  <RichK67> since there is no balance yet defined, it bombs with a invalid string id 0 for GetString error
22:15:13  <RichK67> solving this is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay beyond what i feel i can cope with right now... so if anyone wants to take a look at the code, and try to solve why it doesnt display, i will gladly mail it to them
22:15:47  <glx> there's only one way to solve this: put the generation in a separate thread
22:16:07  <RichK67> ok - would you do it for me? i dont know how
22:17:31  <XeryusTC> threading isn't that hard, the hard part is preventing deadlocks
22:17:33  <Darkvater> oh yeah, good job doing that... you need a backup copy of the whole _m[] struct or else it won't work
22:17:40  <Eddi|zuHause> [29.04. 23:27] <black_Nightmare> another question..if a passenger-carrying engine mentions 'powered wagon: +679hp' does that mean adding one passenger coach to this engine would give it more hp there? <- you need to read the readme of the DBSet, it explains how to use engines like the ET 87
22:17:44  <Darkvater> probably of the cities/industries/about everything else as well
22:19:06  <RichK67> DV: so is this a dead duck? I wont cry :)
22:19:27  <glx> Darkvater: why backup _m[] ?
22:19:33  <Darkvater> well not dead but needs a lot of thinking...or of course you can pause the background game in the meantime and only update the windows
22:19:41  <Darkvater> then you save yourself all the backupping :)
22:20:11  <glx> in map generation the game should be paused anyway
22:20:20  <RichK67> DV: its during terrain generation. is there any way to get the blitter to just blit the one window
22:21:53  <RichK67> that would be a neater solution
22:21:55  <Darkvater> hmm possibly such a force-update would be possible
22:22:18  <Darkvater> perhaps
22:22:45  <RichK67> thats what i tried with DrawDirtyBlocks()... but it tried to draw stuff the data wasnt ready for (and it also draws the new map screen as well :( )
22:23:09  <Darkvater> you need to dirty the right parts :)
22:23:32  <Darkvater> but of course it's possible, even probably so that a LOT of the calls set the dirty blocks
22:23:45  <RichK67> yup they do
22:24:56  <RichK67> i think things like the status bar are drawn dirty, so that on first screen refresh everything gets painted
22:25:00  <glx> RichK67: MarkWholeScreenDirty <-- maybe this is too much
22:25:14  <Darkvater> hmm, some sets don't really work together I think..I got an oil ship that is a truck :P
22:25:36  <RichK67> glx: tried that - does nothing as the drawdirty isnt called
22:26:35  <glx> I know but if you call DrawDirtyBlocks() after MarkWholeScreenDirty() you redraw unwanted windows
22:26:48  <RichK67> as i say, simplest solution is to force blitter to repaint just the specified window
22:27:14  <glx> you could set dirty the progress window
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22:27:46  <RichK67> glx: yup, current routine does:
22:27:46  <RichK67>                     ShowTerrainProgress();
22:27:46  <RichK67>                     RedrawScreenRect(250, 250, _screen.width - 250, _screen.height - 250);
22:27:46  <RichK67> fprintf(stderr, "here 3\n");
22:27:47  <RichK67>                     DrawDirtyBlocks();
22:28:16  <RichK67> ShowTerrainProgress is the gui call, that on repaint, marks itself dirty with SetWindowDirty()
22:28:45  <RichK67> the RedrawScreen isnt really necessary, but has some interesting effects i was hoping would work.
22:29:20  <RichK67> lets face it, this is dev code... im hacking it really as i dont know what to do to make it work in the obvious way (as it does everywhere else)
22:29:56  <glx> fprintf(stderr, "here 3\n"); <-- you could use debug("here 3"); to do the same :)
22:30:38  <RichK67> argh... yeah, so i havent learnt to use debug yet... heck, i code with a notepad clone... im not exactly hi-tech ;)
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22:35:06  <Sacro> brb all
22:35:10  *** Sacro [n=Sacro@adsl-83-100-181-201.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [" Try HydraIRC -> <-"]
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22:36:57  * SimonRC suspects debug() will help in the long run anyway, e.g. to re-target debugging output to the game console
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22:38:11  <RichK67> yeah - perhaps its time to go hi tech... and use an IDE
22:38:24  <glx> no need to use an IDE
22:38:26  <Sacro> cat too much hard work?
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22:39:08  <MeusH> RichK67: wouldn't it be better if repaint gets called each actual progress change, not each tick?
22:39:42  <glx> RichK67: I just tried what you paste, assertion failed: bottom > 0 :)
22:39:47  <RichK67> thats why i would like to force it... my routine only tries to update the window when the progress ticks from 9% to 10% etc
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22:42:20  <RichK67> glx: it was only a small snippet of the code; but yes, it isnt bombing in my window, or even in the redraw of my window; its some other window/dirty object that it blows up trying to draw (good excuse, huh? ;) )
22:42:36  <glx> :)
22:44:19  <RichK67> when it pops up the invalid id 0 error for me, as i move the error window around, it repaints areas underneath.. hence me saying i think it is the uninitialised finance amount that is the problem; the status bar is halfdrawn, with only the current balance not displayed... 2+2=5 ;)
22:45:06  <RichK67> of course, this may be solved by initialising finances first, before terrain gen
22:45:14  <RichK67> but i think it does anyway...
22:47:51  <Eddi|zuHause> hmz... when chosing a platform, a train should chose one where it can go to the next target from...
22:48:32  <MeusH> 15 coal mines connected, 5 left...
22:48:45  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause: waypoints
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22:49:03  <Eddi|zuHause> that is not the point :p
22:49:22  <Eddi|zuHause> currently, i do it by leaving out that station in the orders...
22:49:46  <Eddi|zuHause> but that is only a workaround... it might fail in some situations
22:52:02  <MeusH> Eddi|zuHause: trains look for patch only to their next destination
22:52:35  <MeusH> however, it may be enchanced to look for more destinations, but it would require more computing power
22:52:44  <Eddi|zuHause> MeusH: notice the word "should"? it indicates a suggestion ;)
22:53:21  <MeusH> yeah, I agree
22:53:24  <MeusH> they should
22:53:33  <MeusH> and they may, in the future
22:54:36  <MeusH> cya
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23:01:08  <Brianetta> Sacro: You went bankrupt
23:03:45  <XeryusTC> lol, how could you possibly go bankrupt? I only succeded to be broke for 3-4 months in a row
23:04:06  <XeryusTC> succeeded*
23:05:03  <Sacro> Brianetta:damn :(
23:05:19  <Sacro> XeryusTC: i had 4 trains
23:07:36  <XeryusTC> Sacro: that *should* make a profit
23:10:15  <Sacro> XeryusTC: they where
23:10:24  <Sacro> unless the economy overtook me
23:18:56  <RichK67> woohoo... found where.. just need to solve how....     screen repaint dies repainting the status bar; specifically the (null) company name
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23:27:47  <RichK67> bah humbug... ok, i have got DrawDirtyBlocks to not fail (cure was not reprinting null company name when _generating_world set)... but the screen still doesnt refresh. even MarkWholeScreenDirty + DrawDirtyBlocks doesnt redraw... im beginning to think i am wasting my time here :(
23:28:40  <glx> yes :)
23:29:01  <RichK67> LOL
23:29:49  <RichK67> does the loading map progress bar MeusH mentionned only work because saveload is in a separate thread?
23:30:19  <glx> no the network code works with events
23:30:48  <glx> so map download is not a blocking thing
23:30:55  <RichK67> ok - i think i will push this back onto wish list then
23:32:30  <glx> but I don't see why you modified SelectScenarioWndProc()
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23:40:38  <RichK67> glx: ah... yes, it is the weird and wonderful world of _opt_newgame vs _opt. when in the ScenGen, it directly uses _opt for its game vars. when doing a New Game, it uses _opt_newgame. my updated AskResetLandscape routine (yes, i should have created a new gui rather than hijack the existing one), uses _opt_newgame (i think), so it needs to ensure that the correct vars are passed across to it. put it this way; with the code it works, without it, it doesnt
23:43:45  <glx> hmm but old lanscape generator uses opt
23:45:19  <RichK67> old landscape generator didnt have a gui panel that needs to be initialised with game variables
23:46:02  <RichK67> and the panel needs to be shown in both New Game mode and Scen Gen mode... it wasnt fun finding and debugging that stuff
23:46:30  <glx> MakeNewGame sets the correct opt values
23:48:01  <RichK67> but only in GM_NORMAL mode... not in ScenGen
23:50:28  <glx> hmm is AskResetLandscape only for newgame ?
23:51:06  <RichK67> not any more... it is used by both New Game and Scen Gen's GENRANDLAND
23:51:24  <glx> and it uses _opt
23:51:59  <glx> so it should not be a problem to use original calls (MakeNewGame() ...)
23:53:48  <glx> and you can display the tgp settings window in GenerateWorld()
23:54:29  <glx> it's the first common part between newgame an scenario AFAICS
23:54:51  <RichK67> well, when i coded it in feb, i remember i found a few really good reasons why not... but its late, and i cant remember them now... anyway, bottom line is that part of TGP works - i think... its late, can we discuss some other time
23:55:07  <glx> ok
23:56:02  <RichK67> i always prefer to reuse code if possible, so i dont think i would have turned down a gift-horse like MakeNewGame without a good reason
23:56:46  <glx> I'll try what I said to see :)
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23:58:00  <RichK67> AFAICR - the switch into TGP mode is made in GenerateLandscape which is in GenerateWorld which is in MakeNewGame...  so its probably used in that path anyway
23:58:36  <glx> GenerateWorld is only called for scenario I think

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