Log for #openttd on 9th June 2006:
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00:02:17  <Sacro> ah well, bed time, night all
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00:10:20  <CIA-3> richk * r5185 /branch/MiniIN/ (langs.vcproj openttd.sln openttd.vcproj strgen/strgen.vcproj):
00:10:20  <CIA-3> [MiniIN]: Correction to VS .vcproj files. Previous VS8 changes were applied to both pre-VS8 and VS8 files.
00:10:20  <CIA-3> Thanks to Theif^ for VS7 corrections.
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02:21:06  <Brianetta> Nightly's up
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03:38:27  <Smoky555> morning :)
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04:54:30  <Smoky555> did somebody knows, why in last MiniIn didn't work peter1138's diag_rails_under_bridge ?
04:58:55  <Smoky555> i found ... changeset 5155 :(
05:05:06  <roboman> bye
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06:34:35  <CIA-3> peter1138 * r5186 /trunk/ (aircraft.h aircraft_cmd.c aircraft_gui.c): - NewGRF: show default aircraft cargo type and the purchase list (mart3p)
06:45:12  * roboman dinner
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07:04:00  <CIA-3> peter1138 * r5187 /trunk/ (aircraft_cmd.c train_cmd.c): - NewGRF: temporarily change a vehicle's cargo subtype when calling the refit capacity callback.
07:09:59  <CIA-3> peter1138 * r5188 /trunk/ (ship_cmd.c ship_gui.c): - NewGRF: check refit capacity callback when refitting a ship
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07:38:34  <CIA-3> tron * r5189 /branch/bridge/ (bridge_map.c bridge_map.h): Simplify a bit of code
07:39:41  <CIA-3> tron * r5190 /branch/bridge/openttd.c: Simplify a check, use enum instead of magic number, fix some cases where vehicles were incorrectly not flagged as 'on bridge'
07:44:17  <peter1138> morning tron
07:45:28  <CIA-3> peter1138 * r5191 /trunk/ (6 files in 2 dirs): - NewGRF: add cargo refit support for road vehicles
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07:53:01  <Igor2_off> hi
07:53:24  <Igor2_off> what's the easiest way to make a dedicated server tell something to every player that joins?
07:53:27  <Igor2_off> (motd)
07:54:21  <Prof_Frink> brianetta's autopilot thingy
08:00:25  <Igor2_off> could you give me an url?
08:04:21  <Darkvater> on_client.scr
08:04:23  <Darkvater> morning
08:04:46  <Igor2_off> thanx :)
08:07:44  <Igor2_off> hmmz
08:08:00  <Igor2_off> on_client runs when i'm a client that joins a server it seems
08:08:18  <peter1138> hello Darkvater
08:08:37  <peter1138> hmm, 6 commits already :D
08:12:23  <Darkvater> Igor2_off: heh, could be ;p
08:12:23  <Darkvater> peter1138: morning. I think I figured out the terraform problem (at least in my head)
08:12:23  <peter1138> cool
08:12:23  <Darkvater> it could be totally wrong of course
08:12:24  <Igor2_off> ok, so i need to patch, bbl :)
08:12:24  <peter1138> or brianetta's autopilot, which is an expect script (iirc) that runs the server
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08:13:08  <Igor2_off> >Peter> could you give me an url? :)
08:13:39  <peter1138> looking for it
08:14:15  <peter1138>
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08:14:44  <Igor2_off> thanx
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08:26:25  <CIA-3> peter1138 * r5192 /trunk/command.c: - Stylechange: fix bjarni's tabs-instead-of-spaces alignment
08:26:32  <peter1138> ^^ most important commit ever!
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08:32:01  <Bjarni> while you are at your commit frenzy, can you backport the multiheaded fix I committed yesterday?
08:32:14  <Bjarni> r5175
08:33:24  <CIA-3> tron * r5193 /branch/bridge/ (bridge_map.h openttd.c): Store the direction of bridge ramps as DiagDirection instead of Axis + north/south
08:36:19  <CIA-3> tron * r5194 /branch/bridge/ (openttd.c saveload.c): Bring the savegame version check for converting bridges closer to reality
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08:39:18  <peter1138> Tron: please tag with [bridge] or something? (ok, so the /branch/bridge/ implies it, but..)
08:40:34  <Tron> what for? svn log in trunk (or anywhere else except in branch/bridge) doesn't show these logs
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08:44:34  <RichK67> hi all
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08:53:47  <RichK67> Darkvater, Tron, Bjarni, MihaMix, Belugas, peter1138 ping
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08:55:05  <RichK67> dammit - gotta dash... back in 5
09:01:24  <Bjarni> 1
09:01:25  <Bjarni> 2
09:01:25  <Bjarni> 3
09:01:26  <Bjarni> 4
09:01:26  <Bjarni> 5
09:01:59  <RichK67> back
09:02:42  <RichK67> ok - now the bridges stuff is no longer in trunk, can we reconsider my New Airports patch??
09:02:52  <Bjarni> hmm
09:03:03  <Bjarni> maybe later
09:03:08  <Bjarni> I'm working ;)
09:03:44  <Bjarni> (I would like to see that patch in the trunk, but I haven't got the time to proofread it)
09:04:15  <RichK67> sure, Darkvater has been through it with a fine tooth-comb, and ive done all the changes needed
09:05:35  <Bjarni> then maybe Darkvater will commit it tonight when he returns
09:06:41  <Bjarni> it sounds like he took a closer look than I did and he also knows airport stuff way better than me, since he designed and coded it
09:06:46  <RichK67> Belugas wanted to get all the devs to verify it (god knows why; its tight, and well tested ;) )
09:08:14  <Bjarni> if Darkvater says it's ok, then it's ok for me as well
09:08:33  <RichK67> thanks; ill quote you on that ;)
09:08:50  <Bjarni> if everybody should read all patches before it gets committed, then we would never commit anything, simply due to lack of time
09:08:58  <Bjarni> read= read and understand
09:09:44  <Bjarni> we have to remember that adding something to the trunk is not the same as it is final. We can still tweak it if needed
09:09:54  <RichK67> yeah, thats what i thought; i will dread trying to explain my terrain generator if i have to do that for all devs
09:10:17  <RichK67> NewAirports is simple in comparison
09:14:16  <peter1138> personally i'd rather not see more hard coded airports
09:14:58  <RichK67> well, im not doing any more after this; the next airport project has to be newgrf airports
09:23:32  <Darkvater> Belugas was right about the saveload stuff so I'll needa have another look at the diff with respect to saveload-compatibility
09:31:53  <CIA-3> miham * r5195 /trunk/lang/ (hungarian.txt italian.txt):
09:31:53  <CIA-3> WebTranslator2 update to 2006-06-09 11:31:37
09:31:53  <CIA-3> hungarian - 4 fixed by miham (4)
09:31:53  <CIA-3> italian - 1 changed by sidew (1)
09:32:22  <MiHaMiX> bbl, fixint WT2's {STRINGx} stuff
09:32:27  <MiHaMiX> s/nt/ng/
09:34:06  <RichK67> yup, but it will only change one character ;)    28 -> 29 ;)
09:36:09  <RichK67> the only "new" thing saved anywhere is the stationId, which will gain 4 extra enums; so bumping the revision will be all that is required
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09:37:55  <peter1138> MiHaMiX: \o/
09:40:18  <peter1138> MiHaMiX: hmm, s/fixed/added/, surely?
09:40:47  <MiHaMiX> peter1138: no, it's already implemented, somehow it didn't checked properly
09:40:53  <peter1138> heh
09:41:03  <MiHaMiX> afair :)
09:48:45  <peter1138> irq 11: nobody cared!
09:48:48  <peter1138> that's... hmm...
09:48:58  <MiHaMiX> :D
09:49:16  <MiHaMiX> hmm
09:49:37  <MiHaMiX> my memories were bad. I forgot to implement the  check :-(
09:50:07  <Darkvater> RichK67: still, I needa lookie
09:51:00  <hylje> :>
09:52:10  <RichK67> np - ill sort it at home early tonite; will you be available around 19:00-1945 CEST?
09:52:33  <peter1138> tonight :P
09:52:50  <Darkvater> perhaps, not sure
09:52:55  <Darkvater> going to pick up parents from Airport
09:53:07  <RichK67> Commuter or Intercontinental ;)
09:53:43  <Darkvater> hmm
09:53:47  <Darkvater> Schiphol
09:53:57  <RichK67> biggy :)
09:53:58  <Darkvater> eek
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09:54:12  <RichK67> definitely a hub
09:54:26  <Darkvater> 6 runways
09:56:16  <RichK67> ive gotta create a hub with diagonal runway sometime :)   but maybe for newgrf airports
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09:57:41  <hylje> :o
09:58:28  <RichK67> diagonal *has* to be square though
09:58:58  <hylje> that makes sense really
09:59:56  <RichK67> or rather, it must be at least square; the diagonal must be at 45 degrees to normal; not 30 degrees.  but the airport can be bigger
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10:00:15  <RichK67> you'll know what i mean when i make one ;)
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11:06:08  <Sacro> afternoon all
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11:57:18  <peter1138> hmm
11:57:35  <peter1138> NETWORK_REVISION_LENGTH... anyone see any issues if that's increased to 15?
11:59:09  <Sacro> well surely the shortest can be "norev000" which is 8
12:00:19  <Eddi|zuHause2> certainly, "rxxxx branchname" is longer ;)
12:01:52  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause2: well ive never seen that so it doesnt count! :P
12:06:17  <XeryusTC> branchname isn't included afaik
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12:18:39  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause2: but yes, that's exactly my point
12:18:49  <peter1138> r5200M-bridge
12:18:51  <peter1138> is quite long
12:18:56  <peter1138> longer than 10...
12:19:26  <peter1138> as i understand the code, the existing network code will crop longer names to 10, so it should be compatible
12:20:10  <Darkvater> don't think making string longer will add any incompatibilities
12:20:17  <Darkvater> 1. new clients just get the longer string
12:20:26  <Darkvater> 2. old clients if somehow they join, just trim it
12:20:43  <MiHaMiX> ok
12:21:15  <MiHaMiX> WT2 is fixed and now should be working properly (no more wrong {P ...} and {STRINGn} params)
12:22:41  <Sacro> lol @ steptoe and son
12:24:09  <Darkvater> MiHaMiX: we'll hold you to it :)
12:24:44  <MiHaMiX> Darkvater: ok
12:25:01  <peter1138> Darkvater: that's what i wanted to make sure :)
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12:42:40  <MiHaMiX> White_Rabbit: 4 new string, please fix :)
12:43:17  <White_Rabbit> I'm on it
12:45:03  <White_Rabbit> it's all done
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12:46:41  <White_Rabbit> I'm looking forward to tonight's nightly...nice, new newgrf features
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12:49:10  <RichK67> what features (unable to check log at the mo...)??
12:50:47  <peter1138> road vehicle cargo refitting
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12:51:57  <Darkvater> RichK67: unable to check the log???
12:52:03  <Darkvater> or svn log :)
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13:11:27  <Belugas> research of the day : What cause the fluctuations of real life inflation?
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13:14:55  <scia> Belugas: what do you mean?
13:15:52  <RichK67> Darkvater: i dont have the svn checked out on my work machine; and i didnt know the alternative route... many thanks; bookmarked :)
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13:19:29  <Belugas> scia : i was looking at the code in ottd, last night. I found out tht the inflation is link to the interest rate AND DOES NOT MOVE AT ALL during game time.
13:19:33  <Belugas> It puzzled me
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13:19:49  <Belugas> and I was wondering how I can make it fluctuate
13:20:01  <Belugas> thus the research :)
13:20:23  <Belugas> There are two things we can record : production and distribution
13:20:34  <Belugas> wold it be enough?
13:20:36  <Belugas> don't know
13:20:43  <Belugas> that's waht I want to find out.
13:20:44  <scia> let me think...
13:20:57  <Belugas> take all your time :)
13:21:05  <Belugas> it is only 9:20 here ;)
13:21:37  <RichK67> ah... ingame inflation... interesting thought
13:22:19  <Darkvater> RichK67: :) np. You can always ssh ^^
13:22:20  <RichK67> its linked to prices, but since prices in OTTD are fixed, and dont change in response to demand, its a bit academic
13:23:10  <scia> in ottd there is no demand :p
13:23:11  <Darkvater> the interest rate is fixed, so the prices have a fixed increase
13:23:18  <Darkvater> you cannot model the RW
13:23:39  <Belugas> well...initially, it was just a matter of getting rid of the cargo payment rate arrays in savegames, and I figured out that the inflation rate, applied to original cost on reload game, would do the trick
13:23:53  <Belugas> Then, I came with the idea of fluctuant inflation
13:24:01  <RichK67> OTTD has plenty of demand; it just has no way of fulfilling it (other than when we create transport network)
13:24:12  <Darkvater> it is about the marketplace (demand, etc.), monetary policies, politics, physcological warfare
13:24:18  <RichK67> weather
13:24:31  <scia> the law of supply and demand makes the prices - not in ottd
13:24:38  <Darkvater> disasters, yes
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13:25:24  <peter1138> there, a nice plain text version of celestar's PDF to reply to ;p
13:25:33  <Darkvater> oh crap
13:25:37  <Darkvater> still needa read i
13:25:37  <Darkvater> t
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13:26:01  <peter1138> well, it's easier to read now ;)
13:26:17  <scia> When wages rise, and the labor productivity does not, the prices have to rise too
13:26:27  <scia> that's inflation :p
13:26:31  <RichK67> also technology; vinyl records are now expensive as there is little supply, matching the small demand ... in theory OTTD prices should start high, and as we meet the demand (by creating the supply network), we would drive inflation down
13:27:44  <Belugas> Think of it : we (players) are delivering cargos.  Who asked us to do so?  We decide to.  Can we imagine that we have been asked to?  Then we have demand.
13:27:58  <Belugas> But...
13:28:18  <Tron>     if (m_pFirst == NULL) {
13:28:18  <Tron>       return *(Titem_*)NULL;
13:28:18  <Tron>     }
13:28:20  <Tron> what is this?
13:29:06  <Belugas> an enigma?
13:29:27  <Darkvater> nice
13:30:45  <Tron> i'd rather call it "SEGFAULT" instead of "nice"
13:31:00  <hylje> core dumped
13:32:27  <Tron> there's more of these...
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13:34:39  <Eddi|zuHause2> is it bad if i have no clue what that is supposed to mean?
13:35:42  <Darkvater> :q
13:35:45  <Darkvater> *eek*
13:35:57  <Sacro> lol
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13:40:12  <Belugas> inflation : my wife wants a new dishwasher.  I ask for a raise, which I get (because i'm gooooooood).  My boss raises the prices of our products.  Too bad, i'm making dishwashers.  They now cost more.  I have to ask for a raise, again...
13:41:14  <Tron>     int z1 = GetSlopeZ(x1 + TILE_HEIGHT, y1 + TILE_HEIGHT); <-- this looks /SO/ wrong
13:41:36  * peter1138 pumps Belugas up with a bicycle pump: inflation
13:42:21  <RichK67> deflation: your wife wants a dishwasher; you get a raise; your boss raises the price; the company sells less; the company goes under; you are made redundant; you cannot afford to keep your wife in the luxury she is used to... she divorces you ;)
13:42:46  <peter1138> Tron: it's copied from npf.c ... not that that means it's right
13:42:58  <peter1138> (either that, or vice versa, i suppose)
13:43:43  <Tron> hmhm, it's incorrect
13:43:46  <peter1138> yes
13:43:47  <Tron> or rather bogus
13:44:01  <Tron> TILE_HEIGHT just happens to be TILE_SIZE / 2
13:44:01  <peter1138> some one's seen tile, and replace the 8 with TILE_HEIGHT, heh
13:44:03  <peter1138> yeah
13:47:34  <Tron> wow, TILE_HEIGHT was invented in the commit these 8s got replaced by it
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14:20:32  <peter1138> argh, worst indenting ever
14:20:37  <hylje> ?
14:20:40  <peter1138> indenting of 2 characters
14:20:42  <peter1138> using spaces
14:20:55  <peter1138> except if it's 4 levels (8, 12, etc) deep
14:20:58  <peter1138> then it uses tabs
14:21:08  <hylje> :X
14:22:03  <TheMask96> i like spaces, cause tabs look different per editor, but you should always use one kind of indenting, otherwise you get a mess ;)
14:22:24  <peter1138> spaces suck for indenting
14:22:57  <TheMask96> any specific reason for that?
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14:24:16  <peter1138> because it's what tab was designed for
14:24:46  <peter1138> tab indenting looks different based on the preferences of whoever's using the code at that point
14:24:59  <peter1138> spaces forces everyone to use, say, 2 character indenting
14:25:21  <peter1138> tab indenting lets me decide
14:25:31  <TheMask96> you've got a point there.. :)
14:25:50  <peter1138> also (depending on the editor used) backspacing a tab will unindent one level
14:26:00  <peter1138> if it's spaces you have to backspacing multiple times
14:26:32  <peter1138> (but that is editor dependent, and conceivably there could be some twisted editor that turns tabs into spaces when backspacing)
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14:26:40  <peter1138> however.
14:27:00  <peter1138> using tabs for aligning columns of data is wrong :)
14:27:25  <Sacro> not wanting to start a holy war, what should i learn, C# or java?
14:29:56  <peter1138> personally i prefer C#
14:30:07  <peter1138> but it's up to you what you learn ;p
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14:35:08  <Scuddles> What happened to the magickbridges? They used to be in the nightly last time I played :o
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14:36:21  <Belugas> It has been removed indeed.  It will be back (eventually) when ready :)
14:36:49  <Scuddles> Meh, I thought it was already -ready when included :P
14:37:11  <hylje> make a floating bridge to complement the magic bridges approach
14:37:32  <CIA-3> peter1138 * r5196 /trunk/ (npf.c yapf/yapf_road.cpp): - Codechange: replace two incorrect uses of TILE_HEIGHT with TILE_SIZE / 2
14:40:35  <CIA-3> peter1138 * r5197 /trunk/ (Makefile network.h): - Use svn info to automatically find the last modified revision number and get branch information and place it in the revision string. Increase NETWORK_REVISION_LENGTH to accommodate the branch tag.
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14:44:59  <Darkvater> hurray for windows
14:45:13  <Darkvater> I couldn't do anything becuase it has decided to fuck with my HD for the past 20 minutes
14:45:18  <peter1138> "oops"
14:46:34  <Darkvater> excel decided to use 300MB of memory when I double-clicked on a word in the VBA editor
14:47:24  <Darkvater> the joys
14:48:22  <hylje> bloat
14:48:23  <hylje> :)
14:50:52  <peter1138> heh
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14:54:19  <RichK67> Belugas ping
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14:59:58  <Belugas> RichK67 pong, but awfully busy :(
15:00:04  <peter1138> no time to shower?
15:00:13  <RichK67> i dont pong ;)
15:00:20  <Belugas> with you, peter1138, always ;)
15:01:25  <RichK67> okies - will you be able to review the New Airports this weekend?? (bear in mind that it will also require a SAVEGAME_VERSION bump from 28 to 29; no other changes though)
15:01:50  *** mode/#openttd [+o orudge] by ChanServ
15:01:53  <SpComb> :o
15:02:01  <SpComb> orudge is back, and he is angry!
15:02:16  * orudge wibbles all over SpComb
15:02:53  <Eddi|zuHause2> eww... do you have to do that in public? get a room :p
15:03:03  *** glx [] has joined #openttd
15:03:19  *** Prof_Frink [] has quit ["Moo"]
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15:03:33  <Darkvater> orudge: you know
15:05:10  <orudge> Yes, I do.
15:05:15  <orudge> I also know that I have my driving test very soon
15:05:18  <orudge> and am fairly busy with stuff :p
15:05:22  <orudge> but, it shall be done, one day
15:05:26  <orudge> Perhaps on the plane to Brazil, m.
15:05:27  <orudge> hm
15:05:29  <Darkvater> hmm you are getting suspicious
15:05:35  * orudge sighs
15:05:36  <Bjarni> driving test?
15:05:42  <orudge> There's nothing dodgy going on, I'm just busy and lazy :p
15:05:43  <Bjarni> now that sounds scary
15:05:52  <Darkvater> that's suspicious as well
15:05:53  <orudge> All the records are in my PayPal account, and half of them in an Excel spreadsheet
15:05:57  <orudge> I just need to update the spreadsheet
15:05:57  <Bjarni> mainly the latter :P
15:06:08  * orudge drives all over Bjarni
15:06:10  * Darkvater can't imagine it takes THAT much time to do this
15:06:47  <SpComb> PayPal?
15:06:49  <Bjarni> orudge: you forgot that you drive on the left side while we drive on the *right* side, so you missed :P
15:07:01  <orudge> It doesn't really, it's just tedious and I haven't yet got around to it :p
15:07:22  <Bjarni> SpComb: that's a device on the internet to use up all your real life money
15:07:41  * orudge 's vehicle was so wide it took up both lanes, Bjarni
15:07:53  <hylje> paypal is ebays attempt at a bank which is not a bank
15:07:55  <Bjarni> SpComb: it's some kind of online credit card system... or something like that
15:08:08  <SpComb> I know paypal
15:08:10  <orudge> An online payment system
15:08:16  <SpComb> what what does paypal have to do with orudge and openttd?
15:08:21  <SpComb> some evil conpsiracy?
15:08:23  <orudge> I accept donations for OpenTTD
15:08:36  <SpComb> at a 80% commodity rate?
15:08:43  <orudge> I seem to remember there were over EUR100 worth of donations last time I added it all up, anyway
15:08:47  <MiHaMiX> orudge: how many donations did OpenTTD received so far?:)
15:08:58  <hylje> one, but paypal ate that
15:09:00  <Bjarni> we need money for some stuff like having the domain names, the forum and homepage and so on
15:09:00  <hylje> :|
15:09:05  <orudge> MiHaMiX: That's what I ened to add up
15:09:05  *** brygge_2 [n=joachim9@] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
15:09:26  <orudge> That reminds me, Bjarni... ages ago I got a message from ludde asking for money for the domains, I told him to speak to Darkvater and never heard from him again :s
15:09:35  <orudge> I'm sure I mentioned it here
15:09:40  <Darkvater> I spoke to ludde about it at that time
15:09:41  <orudge> but ah well, I'll assume it was sorted out one way or another
15:10:00  <Bjarni> orudge: he asked me about it and I forwarded him to you
15:10:13  <Bjarni> that's what I know about it
15:10:33  <orudge> Hmm
15:10:38  <orudge> Well, nobody asked me for money after that, anyway
15:11:14  * orudge may go and look at the old accounts after he finishes eating
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15:11:57  <The-Moon> Hey guys
15:11:59  <The-Moon> anyone aroudn
15:12:02  <The-Moon> around*
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15:12:12  <orudge> Maybe
15:12:17  <The-Moon> hey
15:12:22  <The-Moon> do you know much about openttd?
15:12:38  <Scuddles> No, we all play TTDpatch here.
15:12:44  <The-Moon> lol
15:12:47  <The-Moon> sure ya do
15:12:59  <The-Moon> well im having a problem with my desert server
15:13:06  <The-Moon> for some reason at some point in game
15:13:12  <The-Moon> it makes the trains become not avaliable no more
15:13:17  <The-Moon> its 2030 on my server
15:13:24  <The-Moon> and no one can build any trains anymore
15:13:39  <The-Moon>
15:13:44  <The-Moon> dose anyone know how to fix this
15:13:49  <The-Moon> so once a train becomes avaliable
15:13:52  <The-Moon> its always avaliable
15:13:58  <peter1138> yes
15:13:59  <Bjarni> that's normal
15:14:03  <The-Moon> ?
15:14:04  <Bjarni> use maglev instead
15:14:06  <The-Moon> whats normal
15:14:09  <peter1138> vehicles don't expire in the vehicle patch settings
15:14:15  <peter1138> but yeah, you could just use monorail or maglev
15:14:42  <The-Moon> Ohhh ok
15:14:44  <The-Moon> that works
15:14:51  <Bjarni> you are so far into the future, that conventional rails have been obsolite
15:15:02  <peter1138> and obsolete
15:15:05  <Bjarni> somehow I don't think that will happen in real life in just 25 years ;)
15:15:09  <TheMask96> lol :)
15:15:12  <The-Moon> yeah i know
15:15:13  <The-Moon> haha
15:15:24  <The-Moon> im sure trains will be around for a long time still
15:15:38  <The-Moon> untill everyone is rich enough to afford better tracks and trains
15:15:51  <Bjarni> which would be: never
15:15:55  <The-Moon> yeah really
15:16:06  <The-Moon> Awsome, so thanks a bunch
15:16:14  <The-Moon> and im going to turn that patch on
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15:16:21  <The-Moon> will trains still grow old tho?
15:16:25  <Bjarni> it's fairly easy to upgrade the rolling stock, but the rails are way too expensive to replace
15:16:26  <The-Moon> with vehichals never expire on
15:16:32  <The-Moon> because thats whati t hought that it ment
15:16:33  <Bjarni> yeah
15:16:39  <The-Moon> ok cool
15:16:40  <Bjarni> they still got their age thing
15:17:05  <Bjarni> it only prevents them from getting removed from the build vehicle window
15:17:28  <Eddi|zuHause2> new tracks should get really extremely expensive in the later stages of the game
15:17:29  <Bjarni> and when they are removed, they will not be added to the current game if you enable the patch setting
15:17:51  <The-Moon> damn
15:17:55  <The-Moon> i enabled the patch
15:17:58  <The-Moon> but they didnt show up....
15:18:10  <Eddi|zuHause2> that's what Bjarni just said
15:18:12  <orudge> 16:17:28] <Bjarni> and when they are removed, they will not be added to the current game if you enable the patch setting
15:18:22  <Eddi|zuHause2> it only prevents them from going off... it does not put them back
15:18:26  <The-Moon> ok
15:18:27  <The-Moon> np
15:18:52  <Sacro> isnt the a "resetengines" command?
15:19:03  <The-Moon> Word?
15:19:07  <Bjarni> I think it's single player only, but I'm not sure
15:19:12  <Sacro> The-Moon: Word!
15:19:13  <The-Moon> is that the command?
15:19:18  <The-Moon> or is it reset_engines
15:19:29  <peter1138> resetengines
15:19:38  <peter1138> in the conolse
15:19:41  <peter1138> and console
15:19:41  <The-Moon> yeah its forbidden in multiplayer
15:19:45  <peter1138> yes
15:19:47  <Bjarni> *console
15:20:11  <Bjarni> damn, why do this start to lag :(
15:20:26  <peter1138> DOES
15:20:46  <Bjarni> now that didn't lag
15:21:14  <Bjarni> now it's back to normal
15:21:31  <Bjarni> I guess it was just the internet, that played a trick on me or something
15:23:13  * Sacro imagines the internet hiding behind a tree and then jumping out on Bjarni
15:24:00  <hylje> :>
15:24:20  <CIA-3> tron * r5198 /trunk/elrail.c: Fix some strange control flow: the case for MP_RAILWAY fell through the case for MP_TUNNELBRIDGE
15:26:59  <The-Moon> Thanks a bunch guys :D
15:27:19  <CIA-3> tron * r5199 /trunk/tunnelbridge_cmd.c: Make the control flow of GetTileTrackStatus_TunnelBridge() more comprehensible
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15:27:48  <Brianetta> desync bad
15:27:52  <Brianetta> who desync
15:28:31  <peter1138> me, and pikka, and everyone
15:30:07  <Eddi|zuHause2> must be cosmic radiation ;)
15:30:14  <peter1138> clearly
15:30:18  <RichK67> or maybe TGP?
15:30:34  <peter1138> that's only map generation, no?
15:30:55  <RichK67> yeah, but im not 100% sure my MP_VOID setting is right...
15:31:52  <The-Moon> too bad the new stations patch dosent work in openttd yet tho.... :(
15:32:02  <RichK67> the code i borrowed from PNGmap seems to do it down all 4 edges, and i do it to 2 (i think), but its the one bit that is a bit mysterious to me
15:32:13  <Eddi|zuHause2> The-Moon: it does!
15:32:23  <The-Moon> last time i chekced it didnt'
15:32:28  <The-Moon> in fact i have them downloaded
15:32:30  <The-Moon> and enabled
15:32:35  <The-Moon> all i get are the waypoints
15:32:35  <orudge> Aaargh
15:32:37  <The-Moon> not the stations
15:32:38  <orudge> Bloody Excel 2007
15:32:41  * orudge likes not this new interface
15:32:52  <Eddi|zuHause2> not in 0.4.7
15:32:54  <RichK67> The-Moon: you need a nightly build, not 0.4.7
15:32:54  <Eddi|zuHause2> but in trunk
15:32:58  <peter1138> orudge: but it's shiny
15:32:58  <The-Moon> oh
15:33:04  <The-Moon> im not using the nightly build
15:33:12  <The-Moon> ill wait then
15:33:15  <The-Moon> but they do work now?
15:33:21  <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah ;)
15:33:25  <The-Moon> thats great
15:33:27  <RichK67> yes - very well
15:33:30  <Eddi|zuHause2> but they won't be in 0.4.8
15:33:31  <The-Moon> i hope they get this patch out soon :)
15:33:34  <RichK67> thank peter1138 :)
15:33:35  <The-Moon> What!
15:33:38  <The-Moon> Why not?
15:33:42  <Eddi|zuHause2> so you'd have to wait for 0.5.0
15:33:45  <The-Moon> Someone needs to be bitch slaped
15:33:50  <RichK67> 0.4.8 is bugfix, not functionality
15:34:05  <The-Moon> The electric rails are going to be in .4.8 right?
15:34:11  <Eddi|zuHause2> no new features until 0.5
15:34:12  <RichK67> 0.5.0 will follow shortly, in the meantime, the nightly is available nightly ;)
15:34:15  <The-Moon> wtf
15:34:20  <Eddi|zuHause2> means also no elrails
15:34:21  <The-Moon> thats some gay bullshit
15:34:28  <The-Moon> why cant they just make a new version
15:34:31  <The-Moon> with some new features
15:34:37  <The-Moon> its been a good month now...
15:34:41  <RichK67> use the nightly... its 99%+ stable
15:34:51  <orudge> [16:34:27] <The-Moon> why cant they just make a new version
15:34:53  <orudge> "just"
15:35:02  <Eddi|zuHause2> there will be even more new features until 0.5.0
15:35:02  <The-Moon> i would but then only people with the nightly build will be aloud to play on my server
15:35:05  <The-Moon> and i dont want that
15:35:12  <The-Moon> Yeah they can Orudge
15:35:15  * orudge sighs
15:35:16  <The-Moon> its real simple in fact
15:35:16  <Eddi|zuHause2> and they have to be properly tested against each other
15:35:19  <The-Moon> you complie the code
15:35:24  <orudge> All these features are "real simple", eh?
15:35:25  <The-Moon> and slap a version label on it
15:35:27  <The-Moon> and there you go
15:35:27  <orudge> They take quite a bit of work to code.
15:35:29  <orudge> That will happen.
15:35:36  <orudge> But only when it's suitably stable and ready
15:35:38  <RichK67> The-Moon: if you want a ton of new (and some experimental) features, try the MiniIN;
15:35:40  <The-Moon> well if the features are coded in and working....
15:35:44  <Eddi|zuHause2> The-Moon: that's what nightlys are for
15:35:49  <orudge> There exists a notion of "roadmaps" in the software development world.
15:35:53  <The-Moon> not everyone has the nightlys tho
15:36:01  <orudge> Releases are made when the aims in the roadmap are achieved.
15:36:08  <Eddi|zuHause2> but they can download them
15:36:23  <The-Moon> this sucks
15:36:32  <The-Moon> i gotta wait around for 6 months for eletric rails....
15:36:35  <orudge> If you're not happy, feel free to make your own fork.
15:36:36  <Eddi|zuHause2> it does not...
15:36:42  <orudge> And, you don't have to wait 6 months
15:36:45  <orudge> you could just use a nightly.
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15:36:53  <Eddi|zuHause2> the nightlys are publicly available
15:36:58  <Eddi|zuHause2> nobody has to wait for anything
15:36:58  <orudge> Stick that particular one up for download on your site or something if you want, and say people should use that
15:37:49  <orudge> TTDPatch hasn't released a stable version since 2003
15:37:53  <Tron> RichK67: void -> landscape.c about line 390
15:37:55  <orudge> You don't think people are still using 2.0?
15:37:59  <orudge> No, they use the alphas
15:38:02  <orudge> (and nightlies these days, too)
15:38:28  <The-Moon> this current version im using is stable
15:38:29  <RichK67> two systems: stable release+nightlies; or frequent unstable main releases... take your pick ;)   we choose 1)
15:38:35  <Brianetta> RichK67: Your TGP map desynced players.  At least, when I reverted and reloaded, the game didn't desync anybody.
15:38:44  <The-Moon> oh
15:38:51  <The-Moon> yeah i have problem with desyncs all the time
15:38:56  <The-Moon> and i have a good server
15:39:07  <The-Moon> arg i guess ill go get a nightly
15:39:11  <The-Moon> do i have to complie it
15:39:14  <The-Moon> or is it precomplied?
15:39:20  <Eddi|zuHause2> 99%  of all desyncs are newgrf related
15:39:28  <The-Moon> im not using any newgrfs
15:39:30  <RichK67> Brianetta: i suspect there is a problem in there, but i dont know how to debug the server side
15:39:35  <The-Moon> and alot of people get desycn errors
15:39:54  <The-Moon> id code for openttd
15:39:59  <The-Moon> but i got too much other things going on
15:40:04  <Brianetta> RichK67: I'll happily run debug code for you
15:40:05  <The-Moon> i do know c++ pretty well
15:40:18  <Eddi|zuHause2> the nightlies are precompiled for almost all targets imaginable
15:40:33  <glx> except some osx version :)
15:40:33  <hylje> *cough* amiga *cough*
15:40:44  <Brianetta> Eddi|zuHause2: This desync is a 1% case
15:40:46  <The-Moon> im using windows 2000 :)
15:41:08  <Eddi|zuHause2> Brianetta: yeah, i was aiming that at The-Moon...
15:41:25  <Brianetta> ah
15:41:27  <The-Moon> iok well i got the nightly....
15:41:28  <Eddi|zuHause2> i figured you'd know what a desync is ;)
15:41:46  <The-Moon> yeah i do
15:41:46  <Brianetta> and how to combat common causes
15:41:55  <The-Moon> when the cleint dose have the same data as the server
15:42:05  <The-Moon> or its running too slow
15:42:07  <Brianetta> The-Moon: Not quite
15:42:07  <The-Moon> could be eaither
15:42:20  <The-Moon> whats Desycn mean for openttd?
15:42:24  <Brianetta> A desync is simpley when the server and the client have a different random seed
15:42:25  <CIA-3> tron * r5200 /branch/bridge/ (31 files in 3 dirs): Sync with trunk up to 5199
15:42:27  <Eddi|zuHause2> no, too slow client/connection will result in a "connection lost" error
15:42:32  <Brianetta> They check periodically
15:42:38  <Eddi|zuHause2> not a desync error
15:42:38  <The-Moon> oh ok
15:42:38  <Brianetta> If they differ, the client quits the game
15:42:51  <RichK67> Tron: the latest version of TGP is found at the end of the thread - v3p_5105: the MP_VOID is done in the last few lines of tgp.c
15:43:05  <Brianetta> RichK67: That applies fuzzy now
15:43:18  <Brianetta> which might have been the problem
15:43:20  <Tron> RichK67: i just wanted to give you a hint what's correct for void tiles
15:43:45  <RichK67> ahh... ok ... /me checks trunk ;)
15:43:53  <Tron> RichK67: and use MakeVoid()
15:44:06  <Tron> (resp. Make$FOO() for other tiles)
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15:45:09  <The-Moon> Dose the erails grf come with this new nightly build
15:45:13  <The-Moon> i dont need to enable it?
15:45:14  <RichK67> okies - hadnt noticed that update to landscape.c  - btw what is .extra??
15:45:46  <Tron> don't ask, don't touch
15:45:57  <The-Moon> Awsome, a new Map Generator window!
15:45:59  <Tron> just set it to 0 if you create a newe map
15:46:06  <Sacro>
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15:46:25  <The-Moon> Awsome! Electric Rails! Rock0rs!
15:47:22  <The-Moon> ok so do i need to add the new stations grf file in?
15:47:27  <The-Moon> to get them again
15:47:35  <The-Moon> guess soo
15:48:18  <Eddi|zuHause2> yes... you have to add newstatsw.grf or any other kind of new stations, like the industrial stations, yourself
15:48:23  *** Osai^zZz [] has quit []
15:48:36  <RichK67> thanks tron, ill take a good look at this tonight; ive had my suspicions about this area for a bit (and may still need some debug help on it, since i need to run a modified version post-generate)
15:49:05  <The-Moon> WOW
15:49:09  <The-Moon> it really dose work!!
15:49:20  <The-Moon> why dont they make it a standard? They dont have permission to use the new stations?
15:49:30  <Brianetta> The-Moon: Some, yes
15:49:37  *** ProfFrink [] has joined #openttd
15:49:39  <Brianetta> In fact, the best ones are GPL
15:49:40  <Eddi|zuHause2> everybody has different preferences
15:49:52  <The-Moon> GPL?
15:49:59  <Brianetta> I, for example, believe that UKRS should be standard, out of the box
15:50:10  <Brianetta> The-Moon: General Public License
15:50:13  <RichK67> [16:45] The-Moon: Awsome, a new Map Generator window!   <-- sounds like its MiniIN :)
15:50:20  <Bjarni> why the UKRS?
15:50:20  <Brianetta> same licemse as the game (purportedly)
15:50:30  <Bjarni> why not the US set or the DB XL set?
15:50:32  <The-Moon> Wow
15:50:36  <Brianetta> Bjarni: Because it's most like Chris Sawyer's original UK-centric theme
15:50:40  <The-Moon> the map looks more realistical then ever!
15:50:49  <Bjarni> good point
15:50:56  <The-Moon> I like the DB set
15:51:00  <The-Moon> that way you can start in 1920
15:51:05  <Hackykid> hmm, anyone know a good stationset with freight stations and stuff?
15:51:07  <Brianetta> The-Moon: Same with UKRS
15:51:16  <ProfFrink> Bjarni: DBXL is non-Free
15:51:18  <RichK67> The-Moon: that is the map that *may* have a bug in multiplayer... i will be working on it this weekend
15:51:22  <Eddi|zuHause2> RichK67: is the livery refit stuff already in miniIN?
15:51:23  <Brianetta> Hackykid: usstatsw.grf
15:51:27  <hylje> what set lets you start at year 0
15:51:28  <hylje> :<
15:51:42  <The-Moon> RichK67? whatcha talking about?
15:51:47  <RichK67> yes, liveries are in... i documented it wrong in the include list
15:51:53  <Bjarni> ProfFrink: that's a pretty good reason not to use that one ;)
15:52:17  <Bjarni> hylje: that's not possible at all
15:52:27  <Brianetta> Hackykid:
15:52:31  <Brianetta> Look for industrial stations
15:52:31  <Hackykid> Brianetta: thanks :-)
15:52:32  <Brianetta> All GPL
15:52:33  <Eddi|zuHause2> i think that MB person might go ballistic if we included DBSetXL ;)
15:52:33  <Bjarni> "day 1" is 1920
15:52:40  <RichK67> The-Moon: the nice new map generator, generates maps that are prone to desyncs in MP, but I dont yet know why (but have my suspicions) ... i will be debugging it this weekend
15:52:50  <The-Moon> Oh ok
15:52:52  <The-Moon> good luck then
15:52:53  <Bjarni> so it's like we got this time counter and we add an offset of 1920 years to it
15:53:03  <The-Moon> yeah this new smooth maps look 1337
15:53:07  <The-Moon> alot better then the other crap
15:53:33  <The-Moon> And its giving me a snow line in Temp, which i never noticed befor...
15:53:53  <RichK67> yup, the raw code for the overall map took about 6 hours to write... and its taken 4 months to debug ;)
15:53:56  <The-Moon> What other new things are in?
15:54:18  <The-Moon> you should spend 12 hours on it, and then only have to debug for 2 months :)
15:54:43  <Eddi|zuHause2> The-Moon: for the record: the MiniIN is a special version of trunk, that has all kinds of inofficial features in, that might not ever make it to trunk
15:54:57  <The-Moon> ?
15:55:00  <The-Moon> what is miniIN?
15:55:06  <Eddi|zuHause2> what you have got ;)
15:55:10  <Brianetta> Minty
15:55:12  <Brianetta> please
15:55:15  <The-Moon> ? i got the nightly build
15:55:16  <Eddi|zuHause2> the version with the map generator
15:55:17  <RichK67> in MiniIN (which is sort of Nightly + )  it has 6 new airports, including a 4runway mega-airport, subsidiaries, lots of stuff
15:55:25  <The-Moon> No Shit! ?
15:55:28  <The-Moon> New Airports!
15:55:37  <Brianetta> The-Moon: The real nightly build is at
15:55:37  <The-Moon> Omg....
15:55:41  <Eddi|zuHause2> PBS (beware!)
15:55:49  <Brianetta> which doesn't have nearly so much extra
15:56:08  <RichK67> the trunk has a new pathfinder (called YAPF) which works in the MiniIN too
15:56:12  <The-Moon> Oh ok i got the MiniIN
15:56:13  <Eddi|zuHause2> is PBS already YAPF aware?
15:56:18  <The-Moon> i downloaded this hehe
15:56:18  <Brianetta> no
15:56:19  <KUDr> no
15:56:30  <Hackykid> hmm, sometimes i get crashes when generating a map
15:56:47  <RichK67> sorry, i miswrote that; YAPF knows about PBS signals, but doesnt pathfind them any differently
15:56:58  <The-Moon> Is there a way in single player to give me money real quick so i can look at this new stuff?
15:56:58  <Hackykid> hmm and TGP is off
15:57:21  <RichK67> yeah, so do I Hackykid, which is why it wont be even offered for trunk for a while
15:57:47  <RichK67> cheat menu... CTRL-ALT-SHIFT-C ... select 10,000,000
15:57:54  <Hackykid> ah, i see :-)
15:58:19  <The-Moon> dosent work
15:58:26  <The-Moon> nothings comming up
15:58:37  <Eddi|zuHause2> you might need to press ctrl+win+alt+c
15:58:47  <The-Moon> there we go
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15:59:35  <The-Moon> Omg these new airports Rock !
15:59:35  <RichK67> when TGP is off, I forgot to "protect" the old generator from the new method of placing industries, which may not work on the old maps... its for my debug list (but may be academic, as if I get 0.5.0 inclusion with it, then I would probably drop the old generator entirely)
16:00:01  <RichK67> the Intercontinental can handle 30+ aircraft with ease
16:00:39  <hylje> over what time period
16:00:44  <Eddi|zuHause2> you mean 30 AT the airport, or 30 with orders of going there?
16:00:49  <The-Moon> What else is new in this MiniIN patch?
16:00:50  <RichK67> oops - sorry - yes, CTRL-WIN-ALT-C
16:01:09  <Eddi|zuHause2> The-Moon: there's a thread in the tt-forums
16:01:14  <Eddi|zuHause2> explaining it all
16:02:22  <The-Moon> oh
16:02:23  <The-Moon> ok
16:02:25  <RichK67> 30+ where about 1/3rd are at airport 1, 1/3rd in flight, 1/3rd at airport 2, and nothing in the holding pattern
16:02:27  <The-Moon> ill go look then, thanks
16:02:41  <The-Moon> Hey any of you guys wanna play on my server wiht me in a little bit?
16:03:04  <Eddi|zuHause2> so 10 at the airport simultaneously
16:03:23  <Eddi|zuHause2> that is a much better number of characterizing it ;)
16:03:51  <Hackykid> RichK67: hmm, drop the old generator?
16:04:12  <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah... we need less options and patch settings
16:04:18  <Hackykid> TPG can generate flat enough terrain for me :-(
16:04:45  <The-Moon> hrm
16:04:48  <Hackykid> old generater generates 80% of the land at height sealevel+1, just how i like it :-)
16:04:53  <The-Moon> its saying i dont have the correct version as my server
16:04:58  <The-Moon> but i just updated both....
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16:05:49  <Hackykid> hmm s/TPG/TGP :-p
16:05:50  <Eddi|zuHause2> then you did something wrong... or it misbehaves because the version string is too long
16:06:10  <Eddi|zuHause2> which will be fixed in the next build...
16:06:18  <RichK67> Hackykid: try a lower roughness; for a really really flat terrain; go for Very Flat, Very Low water, Very Smooth
16:06:32  <RichK67> the version string is probably too long
16:06:32  <Hackykid> hmm, i think i did
16:06:41  <The-Moon> huh?
16:06:49  <The-Moon> both the server and client have the same version
16:07:03  <The-Moon> r5165-MiniIN
16:07:11  <The-Moon> is it mini in or ln
16:07:13  <Eddi|zuHause2> yes... but if the version string is too long, it gets cut off...
16:07:22  <The-Moon> how do i fix that then?
16:07:25  <RichK67> Mini eye-enn
16:07:27  <Eddi|zuHause2> amd "r5165-Mini" is different from "r5165-MiniIN"
16:07:39  <Hackykid> RichK67: still not flat enough for me :-p
16:07:45  <Eddi|zuHause2> so it fails the check
16:07:50  <glx> Hackykid: try another seed
16:07:56  <The-Moon> .....
16:08:20  <Eddi|zuHause2> The-Moon: recompiling yourself could help
16:08:36  * orudge notices that "HOSTING OUT" is currently somewhat larger than "HOSTING IN"
16:08:36  <The-Moon> why did they release this patch if they new the version string wouldnt work....
16:08:51  <orudge> And yes, Darkvater, I'm doing it now ;)
16:08:51  <Hackykid> i'll just use orig terrain generator :-)
16:09:37  <Eddi|zuHause2> The-Moon: because that is the risk with untested features... they might not work
16:09:48  <The-Moon> ?
16:10:57  <Eddi|zuHause2> including the branch name in the version string is a very experimental feature
16:11:07  <Eddi|zuHause2> invented like 2 days ago
16:11:18  <The-Moon> where can i report this bug too?
16:11:20  <Eddi|zuHause2> not all it's effects have been tested
16:11:30  <Eddi|zuHause2> it is probably already fixed
16:11:34  <The-Moon> ....
16:11:37  <Eddi|zuHause2> for the next recompile
16:11:40  <The-Moon> ok
16:11:47  <The-Moon> ill wait until tomorrow then i guess...
16:11:54  <Eddi|zuHause2> the next recompile of trunk is in 2 hours
16:12:04  <The-Moon> oh
16:12:04  <glx> Eddi|zuHause2: not for minIN
16:12:06  <Eddi|zuHause2> the next recompile of MiniIN is monday morning
16:12:15  <The-Moon> oh
16:12:24  <The-Moon> < when will this be updated then, monday
16:12:31  <glx> yes
16:12:38  <Eddi|zuHause2> Monday, 10:00 CEST
16:12:45  <Eddi|zuHause2> time now is 18:00
16:12:46  <glx> and thursday
16:13:01  <The-Moon> Thursday glx?
16:13:14  <The-Moon> that means it was just updated yesterday...
16:13:23  <Eddi|zuHause2> Monday and Thursday 10:00, each week
16:14:04  <glx> The-Moon: yes but the -xxx stuff was not tested
16:14:35  <glx> miniIN was the first branch to have it
16:16:03  <ln-> hmm, apache svn: "Checked out revision 413083."
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16:17:04  <Eddi|zuHause2> they have either lots of features, lots of bugfixes, or lots of "typo in last commit" :p
16:18:18  <Brianetta> A patchy server
16:18:21  <Brianetta> no kidding
16:20:29  <orudge> To be fair, they also have several years more commits to import into svn than we do ;)
16:20:34  <orudge> but yes, rather an insane number
16:20:44  <orudge> Imagine if the Windows source code was an SVN repository...
16:21:08  <Eddi|zuHause2> "rev 2323461313"
16:21:20  <RichK67> Hackykid: a good way to find a good map, is use the scengen; when you find a good map, write down the seed. go to the newgame window, click on the seed number, and enter the number from the scengen game... then just hit Generate
16:22:29  <Brianetta> orudge: If the Windows source was in SVN, we'd be on release 12 now.  You really think they'd commit just small patches?
16:23:09  <RichK67> it works better the other way;  if you find a good NewGame terrain, and want the seed; save, abandon, and go into Scengen... the map gen window will have the last seed used
16:23:21  <Eddi|zuHause2> they'd have several dozen branches and backport stuff all the time
16:23:39  <Prof_Frink> Eddi|zuHause2: They'd use bzr
16:23:54  <Eddi|zuHause2> whatever that is...
16:24:14  <Eddi|zuHause2> (i'd guess the microsoft equivalent of svn)
16:24:19  <RichK67> i will be changing this so that the seed is saved in the map, and loads in with the game... then you can load a nice map, and then regenerate the same map in Arctic, Desert, toyland, etc.
16:25:28  <glx> RichK67: it was already said that you should not put the seed in the savegame
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16:26:28  <Brianetta> RichK67: Does the noise get scaled for larger maps?  Example, if you had a seed which made two large islands and a small one, would that seed make the same two large islands and a small one if a different map size?
16:26:34  <Eddi|zuHause2> code the seed in height changes at the top of the map, so everybody can read it (if not modified)
16:26:37  <RichK67> TGP isnt even offered for trunk yet; its a feature i will run with in the MiniIN environment, and if absolutely no use, then i'll pull it
16:27:20  <Eddi|zuHause2> (like a 'fingerprint' of the map)
16:27:32  <RichK67> brianetta; no, it would repeat the islands in the same place, but just expand the land surface beyond... in a way, its the other way around; the small maps are a crop of the larger maps
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16:28:04  <Eddi|zuHause2> wtf? clock 20 minutes off? this is getting rediculous...
16:28:22  <RichK67> eddi: yes, and *essential* for debug IMO... "i have this problem, but it only occurs once every 100 maps"... great! find that one!
16:28:47  <RichK67> so, maybe it needs to be there during development, and remove it for release
16:30:08  <Eddi|zuHause2> what i meant: do not reserve extra bits for it, but alter the map somewherere (like in the water at the rim)
16:30:58  <Eddi|zuHause2> so you get little peaks that represent the seed
16:31:24  <The-Moon> RichK67 your one of the programmers for OpenTTD?
16:31:29  <Eddi|zuHause2> nobody can complain about that ;)
16:31:45  <Eddi|zuHause2> RichK67 is the maintainer of the MiniIN branch
16:31:50  <The-Moon> `oh
16:31:52  <The-Moon> ok thats cool
16:33:10  <The-Moon> Having the new stations in OpenTTD is gr8!
16:33:30  <Eddi|zuHause2> we know... that's why they are in ;)
16:33:55  <peter1138> no it's not
16:34:02  <peter1138> they're in because i slipped
16:34:07  <The-Moon> .....
16:34:16  <Brianetta> A lapse of concentration
16:34:24  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... right ;)
16:34:44  <Brianetta> peter1138 was gloating int he screenshots thread about *his* lovely newstations support
16:34:48  <Eddi|zuHause2> like celestar tried with the bridges, but failed ;)
16:35:03  <Brianetta> then he accidentally committed it after making some other change
16:35:15  <CIA-3> peter1138 * r5201 /trunk/ (engine.h newgrf.c table/engines.h): - NewGRF: add loading of default refit costs. This information is not yet used
16:35:34  <Eddi|zuHause2> refit costs! ;)
16:35:40  <Eddi|zuHause2> more! ;)
16:35:43  <Brianetta> I just dropped a jar of cinnamon inthe kitchen
16:35:47  <Brianetta> The jar lid shattered
16:35:57  <Brianetta> THere's fine martian dust everywhere
16:36:01  <Brianetta> and it hinks
16:36:03  <Brianetta> honks
16:36:14  <Brianetta> and I have nothing in which to keep the remaining cinnamon
16:36:53  <peter1138> well that was silly
16:36:56  <RichK67> peter: fantastic, does this mean that we dont need to refit a coal wagon for 10x the price, to get an iron ore wagon in UKRS?? :)
16:37:19  <glx> RichK67: This information is not yet used
16:37:24  <Brianetta> cos iron ore would just fall right out of a coal wagon...
16:38:09  <RichK67> ok - time to go home
16:38:27  <RichK67> woohoo - England match tomorrow :)
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16:55:24  <gagarin_lg> hi
16:56:10  <gagarin_lg> I just wrote a web-based automatic openttd gameserver-creator at:
16:56:20  <gagarin_lg> with full gameservercontrol via telnet
16:56:50  <gagarin_lg> feel free to test it
16:56:56  <White_Rabbit> I forgot what telnet was
16:57:01  <White_Rabbit> is*
16:58:14  <gagarin_lg> a remote text interface
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17:29:54  <RichK67> Darkvater ping
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17:39:57  <hylje> hmm where and how does svn store users
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17:40:46  <RichK67> for once, that *is* in the SVN documentation ;)
17:41:11  <hylje> where
17:41:17  <hylje> been looking for that for a while
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17:44:31  <RichK67>   "create a users file and realm"
17:45:07  *** Sacro [n=Sacro@] has joined #openttd
17:45:16  <RichK67> depends if you are on apache or not though... that is for svnserve
17:45:55  <hylje> pretty deep in there it seesm
17:46:47  <CIA-3> miham * r5202 /trunk/lang/ (american.txt dutch.txt turkish.txt unfinished/ukrainian.txt):
17:46:47  <CIA-3> WebTranslator2 update to 2006-06-09 19:46:28
17:46:47  <CIA-3> american - 4 fixed by WhiteRabbit (4)
17:46:47  <CIA-3> dutch - 4 fixed by webfreakz (4)
17:46:47  <CIA-3> turkish - 4 fixed, 4 changed by jnmbk (8)
17:46:48  <CIA-3> ukrainian - 4 fixed by znikoz (4)
17:47:25  <Sacro> i never realised just how bad XP is
17:47:50  <hylje> :|
17:48:11  <Sacro> grrr, german warez
17:48:53  <Eddi|zuHause2> uhm...
17:49:08  * Sacro nicht deautsche sprechen
17:49:09  * Eddi|zuHause2 tries to imagine what Sacro's problem is
17:49:29  <Eddi|zuHause2> i can ;)
17:49:37  <Sacro> Beenden?
17:49:48  <Eddi|zuHause2> exit/close
17:50:22  <Eddi|zuHause2> comes from "Ende" (=the end)
17:50:25  <Sacro> ahh
17:50:35  <Sacro> Ausgang would make more sense to me
17:51:03  <Sacro> oh well...this could be fun :D
17:51:14  * Sacro climbs behind the wheel of RMS Titanic
17:53:01  <RichK67> "captain, there's a woman on the bow, pointing"... "excellent, go that way then....",  ..... kerasssh
17:53:19  <Sacro> hmm, "PAGE FAULT IN NONPAGED AREA"
17:54:36  *** gagarin_lg is now known as gagarin_lg|away
17:54:41  <Eddi|zuHause2> well... "beenden" is a verb (~ to quit ~ is probably the closest), while "Ausgang" is a noun (the exit)
17:55:45  <Eddi|zuHause2> 'Ausgang' would sound pretty strange in a program...
17:56:51  <Sacro> hmmm
17:56:57  <Sacro> ah well
17:57:32  <Sacro> hehe, "Umgebung"
17:58:33  <Eddi|zuHause2> environment?
17:58:42  <Eddi|zuHause2> i don't think that quite matches the meaning ;)
17:59:01  <Eddi|zuHause2> besides, that is already taken for environment variables
17:59:40  <Sacro> lol
17:59:47  <Sacro> "loading environment"
18:00:37  <Sacro> hmm, thats a buggy game, another BSOD
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18:02:29  <Sacro> right, time to read the instructions
18:02:40  <Sacro> hmmm. is it bad that now windows wont start
18:03:25  <Eddi|zuHause2> no, that is common result of running warez without virus scanner :)
18:03:52  <Sacro> well the EULA was in german
18:04:04  <Sacro> i dont speak german, so i just clicked on the rightmost button
18:04:11  <scia> ausgehen :D
18:04:28  <Sacro> one day they'll move it in foreign languages, and ill get confused
18:04:38  <scia> who won the match btw?
18:04:53  <Sacro> Hilfe.pdf sounds good
18:05:23  <Eddi|zuHause2> well... it's not like anyone is reading EULAs anyway ;)
18:06:24  <Eddi|zuHause2> it could read "i have the right to read and write any data to your harddrive", and 99% of all people wouldn't notice
18:06:26  <Sacro> i have been known to, whilst waiting for XP to install
18:07:18  <Eddi|zuHause2> whereof 98% wouldn't even understand what that implied, even if they did read it
18:08:01  <Eddi|zuHause2> is the match already over?
18:09:04  <Sacro> humm, that crunch cant be good
18:09:14  * Sacro increases throttle
18:09:15  <Eddi|zuHause2> i only noticed several instances of /amsg TOOOOOOOOR!!! running around
18:09:42  <Eddi|zuHause2> last information was 4:2
18:10:10  <Eddi|zuHause2> i'm too afraid to turn on the tv
18:11:09  <Sacro> hehe
18:17:32  <Sacro> hmm "geld verdienen einfach genial absolut legal"
18:19:28  <valhallazzzw> sounds like paypal + pyramid
18:20:27  <Sacro> it does mention paypal in the document
18:20:33  <Sacro> but seeing as i only have limited german
18:20:35  <valhallazzzw> ^_^
18:20:39  <The-Moon> yo RichK67
18:20:42  <The-Moon> you still around
18:21:37  *** tokai|noir [] has quit ["It's like, wah."]
18:24:42  * Sacro gives up and awaits the english version
18:25:25  <Sacro> right, now, how can i optimise OpenTTD?
18:26:45  <The-Moon> Optmize for what?
18:26:53  <The-Moon> OpenTTD is already running great lol
18:26:55  <valhallazzzw> speed!
18:26:59  <The-Moon> unless you mean the server...
18:27:03  <The-Moon> which i dont understand much
18:27:11  <The-Moon> it can only go as fast as the comoputer its on
18:28:07  <The-Moon> server runs great on my comp tho...
18:28:24  <Sacro> well, my distros 0.4.7 package is brilliant
18:28:29  <Sacro> but self compiled stuff isnt
18:28:46  <Eddi|zuHause2> set debug mode off ;)
18:28:47  <The-Moon> oh
18:29:12  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause2: it shouldnt be on
18:29:17  * Sacro never did check though
18:29:32  <Eddi|zuHause2> somehow i expected that reply ;)
18:30:54  <Sacro> get lost :P
18:31:43  <Eddi|zuHause2> i have Lost ;)
18:31:47  <Eddi|zuHause2> complete season 2 ;)
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18:33:58  <Sacro> ive never seen it
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18:34:20  <Eddi|zuHause2> i even have german subtitles ;)
18:34:51  <Sacro> grr
18:35:03  <Sacro> i once got Allo Allo, but it was in Polish
18:35:10  <Sacro> it was still quite amusing though
18:35:11  <Eddi|zuHause2> hihi ;)
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18:35:38  <Sacro> lol
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18:45:43  <Sacro> nope, tried setting compiler flags, but  it still stutters badly
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18:48:52  *** Tron_ is now known as Tron
18:49:02  <RichK67> [19:20] The-Moon: yo RichK67  <--  yo, back :)
18:50:03  <XeryusTC> <Eddi|zuHause2> i have Lost ;) <Eddi|zuHause2> complete season 2 ;) <- only season 2? :P
18:51:13  <Eddi|zuHause2> well... if i had season 3... that would be time travel ;)
18:51:24  <Prof_Frink> ...and?
18:51:26  <Eddi|zuHause2> which is insane even for lost standards ;)
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18:52:33  <Belugas> I just love Lost...
18:53:01  <Belugas> That is writing scenarios :)
18:53:12  <Belugas> not to mention the sceneries...
18:54:50  <Eddi|zuHause2> by my luck, season 3 is really about time travel ;)
18:56:36  <Sacro> oh well, self compiled with and without optimisation are useless
18:56:44  <Sacro> as are i386 and i686 builds
18:57:19  <Eddi|zuHause2> the precompiled nightlies?
18:58:10  <Sacro> yeah
18:59:32  <Sacro> there we go
18:59:36  <Sacro> win32 under wine
19:02:02  <Eddi|zuHause2> is that faster? ;)
19:02:12  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause2: yes
19:02:21  <Eddi|zuHause2> maybe you really should install windows ;)
19:02:45  <Sacro> i already have IE 6 :)
19:02:47  <Sacro> *:(
19:03:26  <Tron> sorry, you're bullshitting
19:03:37  <Sacro> Tron: what do you mean?
19:04:34  <Tron> except for the system calls and the format of the executable all the binaries for x86 are the same
19:04:36  <Born_Acorn> Everyone knows IE6 is not real.
19:04:59  <lws1984> IE6 is a scam
19:05:18  *** oteek [n=oteek@] has joined #openttd
19:05:32  <Born_Acorn> Its IE5 gone through spellchecker!
19:06:26  <Prof_Frink> It's IE5 gone through the Feature Report / Bug Request system.
19:08:22  <Sacro> Tron: well why this problem then
19:11:05  <Tron> must be on your end
19:11:22  <Tron> did you stop the jukebox?
19:11:39  <Tron> palette animations?
19:11:47  <Sacro> Tron: stop it? theres no gm folder
19:12:05  <Tron> open the juke box and stop it
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19:12:38  <glx> Sacro: with a non-existing gm folder, jukebox loops forever
19:13:11  <Eddi|zuHause2> something tells me the jukebox needs a rewrite ;)
19:13:13  <Sacro> glx: actually, it did have the gm folder, but no timidity
19:13:22  <Sacro> and pressing stop didnt help
19:16:43  <Sacro> its quite bemusing
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19:19:25  <tsimpa> hi!
19:19:46  <tsimpa> how big screens you are using_
19:19:48  <tsimpa> ?
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19:24:26  <tsimpa> is here any traffic?
19:24:58  <tsimpa> i just started a game with 64x64 field
19:25:22  <tsimpa> now i have run into error message - too many stations
19:25:26  <tsimpa> what should i do_
19:25:27  <tsimpa> ?
19:26:09  <glx> rename some stations
19:26:26  <tsimpa> its the first part of name that matters?
19:27:00  <glx> you just reach the max number of generated station names
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19:27:55  <tsimpa> actually it also blocked competitors :)
19:28:18  <glx> yeah for the same reason
19:28:28  <tsimpa> i have only one town in the map, and therefore all stations have same name
19:29:57  <glx> hmm no, the stations all use the same town name in their name but they don't have the same name
19:30:38  <tsimpa> it worked
19:30:41  <tsimpa> thanks, man
19:31:13  <tsimpa> i searched from the wiki, but didnt find it there
19:31:25  <tsimpa> someone should add it :)
19:32:32  <guru3> anyone in the uk wanna lend me a shell?
19:34:00  <RichK67> conch?
19:34:15  <guru3> i was thinking bash
19:35:25  <Sacro> guru3: lend?
19:36:00  <RichK67> somewhere for his porn stash ;)
19:36:09  <guru3> i don't need one indefinetely
19:36:13  <guru3> just for the next couple of weeks
19:36:23  <Sacro> ah a porn stash i dont mind
19:36:25  <Sacro> as long as its good quality
19:36:27  <guru3> i can toss that in
19:36:28  <guru3> but really
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19:36:37  <guru3> i want to relay the bbc world cup stream :)
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19:36:47  <Sacro> hmm
19:36:52  * Sacro has a TV card and mythtv
19:36:54  <guru3> because i don't have tv :(
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19:44:08  <peter1138> i found it to be faster on windows that with X
19:44:09  *** jonty_comp [] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
19:44:11  <peter1138> however
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19:44:30  <peter1138> it can't switch to 8bpp on X
19:44:41  <glx> peter1138: I have the opposite feeling
19:44:53  <Sacro> peter1138: ive always found win32 faster
19:45:25  <peter1138> when using DGA as SDL's video driver, it's really fast
19:45:35  <peter1138> but then you can't switch out from full screen
19:46:50  <peter1138> also with modern video cards, palette switching in 8bpp causes (temporary) display artefacts
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19:52:51  <tsimpa> its same here - when ottd is running background fullscreen, then foreground is distorted
19:54:13  <RichK67> Darkvater ping
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20:00:54  *** SchAmane [] has joined #openttd
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20:06:05  <CIA-3> tron * r5203 /trunk/docs/landscape_grid.html: Some bits were incorrectly marked as used
20:06:23  *** WR-away is now known as White_Rabbit
20:10:27  *** scia [] has quit ["Quitting..."]
20:14:28  <CIA-3> peter1138 * r5204 /branch/utf8/newgrf_text.c: [utf8] Fix conversion of newgrf text
20:19:39  *** dp-- [] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20:19:42  *** dp is now known as dp--
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20:30:40  <CIA-3> richk * r5205 /branch/MiniIN/ (14 files in 3 dirs):
20:30:40  <CIA-3> [MiniIN]: [AdditionalOrders]: Added gigajum's Additional Orders patch.
20:30:40  <CIA-3> Provides handy things like "load 40%", "priority", "unload half".
20:30:40  <CIA-3> Many thanks for clean MiniIN version of patch.
20:31:37  <Eddi|zuHause2> wtf is "unload half" for?
20:32:15  <RichK67> read the forum posts about the patch
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20:33:02  <RichK67>
20:36:32  <White_Rabbit> cool
20:37:33  <White_Rabbit> btw, when is the next miniIN version coming? (and why is case-sensitive?)
20:37:57  <XeryusTC> and why is case-sensitive? <- because the server is unix based?
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21:00:44  *** Belugas is now known as Belugas_Gone
21:02:12  <Belugas_Gone> good weekend all
21:02:31  *** thgergo [] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
21:03:48  <Sacro> good weekend Belugas_Gone
21:09:18  *** Aankhen`` [n=pockled@] has quit ["Look ma, no script!"]
21:23:25  <gagarin_lg|away> gn8
21:23:31  *** gagarin_lg|away [] has quit ["Leaving"]
21:23:44  <Bjarni> have you seen the newest mail on the mailinglist?
21:24:00  <peter1138> is it a good'un?
21:24:06  <Bjarni> that brings a whole new meaning to the term "the patch"
21:24:31  <Bjarni> "penis enlarge patch"
21:24:53  <peter1138> not got thata
21:25:02  <Sacro> hmmmm, i didnt see that in newgrf anywhere
21:25:05  <Bjarni> btw how did it happen that the mailinglist all of a sudden got targeted by spam
21:25:11  <Bjarni> and only one kind of spam
21:25:13  <Sacro> peter1138: perhaps it singled out Bjarni as the most needy ;)
21:25:17  <peter1138> must be
21:25:21  <Bjarni> lol
21:25:29  <glx> I though the mailing list was filtered
21:25:37  <Bjarni> so did I
21:25:53  <hylje> :o
21:25:59  <hylje> filter got a hole
21:28:57  * Sacro thinks Bjarni lets this kind of thing get through
21:29:47  <Bjarni> !slap Sacro
21:29:49  <jmp_ghli> >Bjarni> Bjarni knows that Sacro married five sectors from an ST-232 hard disk drive long ago.
21:30:06  <Bjarni> Sacro: we are not all like you
21:30:18  <Bjarni> which is actually a good thing :D
21:30:40  <hylje> Bjarni: that sentence fails to make sense
21:31:44  <Bjarni> ...
21:31:57  <Bjarni> I don't get what part you fail to understand :|
21:32:15  <hylje> :x
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21:32:21  <Bjarni> we are not like Sacro and that's a good thing
21:32:31  <Bjarni> how can that be so tricky to understand?
21:32:34  *** Mucht|zZz [] has quit ["I'll be back!"]
21:32:49  <hylje> it was rather subtle
21:33:12  <Bjarni> hylje: that sentence fails to make sense
21:33:14  <Bjarni> :P
21:33:27  <hylje> indeed
21:33:40  <hylje> lets make a meme from this
21:34:06  <Sacro> meme?
21:34:13  <Bjarni> don't ask
21:34:19  <hylje> internet phenomenon
21:36:00  <Sacro> Bjarni: you dont want to be like m
21:36:01  <Sacro> e
21:38:15  * Bjarni don't plan to drop out of the education system
21:38:17  <Bjarni> so you are right
21:38:33  <Bjarni> for once, you are actually write
21:38:45  <hylje> im read
21:38:58  * Bjarni notes in his calendar that Sacro made a statement, that was actually correct
21:39:11  <Bjarni> hi read
21:39:38  <Bjarni> most people spell that name like "Reed", not read
21:39:57  <hylje> :o
21:40:27  <Sacro> Bjarni: im planning on dropping out altogether
21:41:44  <Bjarni> why?
21:42:35  <Bjarni> why do you want to discard your life and live on social security?
21:42:36  <Sacro> Bjarni: ive had enough of it all, fallen out with my mum and brother tonight
21:42:55  <Bjarni> fallen out?
21:42:59  <Sacro> im not bothered about social security
21:42:59  *** Maedhros [n=jc@gentoo/developer/Maedhros] has quit ["leaving"]
21:44:05  <Bjarni> well, I am
21:44:37  <Bjarni> I hate when people decide not to work at all and leech off of my tax money
21:44:58  <hylje> :x
21:45:16  <Bjarni> you know, some people intend to kill people, who leech, so you have selected a dangerous way of life
21:45:38  <hylje> leecher service
21:45:46  <hylje> could be useful for torrents too
21:46:42  <Sacro> Bjarni: YOUR tax?
21:47:49  <Bjarni> I was talking about people, who got your lifestyle, not just you
21:48:37  <Sacro> my lifestyle?
21:49:51  <Bjarni> yeah
21:50:15  <Bjarni> leeching on working people is sort of a lifestyle
21:50:23  <Sacro> i dont like having to sign on every fortnight
21:50:50  <Sacro> i dont like the fact i had to life in bottom end accomodation on a rough estate, which is now trashed, and i lost about £1500 worth of stuff
21:50:52  <Bjarni> fortnight?
21:50:57  <Bjarni> !whatis fortnight
21:50:59  <jmp_ghli> >Bjarni> Fortnight \Fort"night`\ (?; in U.S. often ?; 277), n.  The space of fourteen days; two weeks.  fortnight n : a period of fourteen consecutive days; "most major tennis tournaments last a fortnight"  95 Moby Thesaurus words for "fortnight": L, Sexagesima, abundant year, academic year, annum, bissextile year, boxcar, boxcars, calendar month, calendar year, century, common year, day, decade, decennary, decennium, defective year, doze
21:51:55  <Bjarni> o_O
21:52:00  <hylje> fortnight doesnt really make any sens
21:52:11  <ln-> of course it does.
21:52:21  <hylje> its not obvious at all, more like exception
21:52:50  <ln-> english is full of exceptions, in case you have managed to avoid noticing that so far.
21:53:14  <hylje> the whole language is an exception rly
21:53:16  <Sacro> its the exception that provves the rule
21:53:51  <ln-> fortnight: 1. A period of fourteen nights; two weeks.
21:54:03  <ln-> [OED]
21:54:17  <hylje> jmp ghli beat ya to it
21:54:22  <hylje> oh
21:54:24  <hylje> :x
21:54:30  <hylje> ima gonna sleep
21:55:51  <Sacro> hmm, sleep
22:00:08  * Sacro sits alone, listening to Kraftwerk
22:01:39  <Eddi|zuHause2> that is probably not the best kind of music to get into a happy mood ;)
22:01:59  * Sacro finds a new letter "æ"
22:02:14  <Sacro> ¹²³?œŸ :| whoo
22:02:39  <Sacro> @???e¶????øþæßð???j??«»¢??nµ?· :S
22:02:56  <Eddi|zuHause2> half of that is ?s
22:03:10  <Hackykid> hmm, you cant autoreplace steam engines to electric engines?
22:03:17  <Sacro> Hackykid: yeah you can
22:03:22  <Eddi|zuHause2> sure you can
22:03:26  <Hackykid> hmm, i cant?
22:03:26  <Sacro> Hackykid: theres a dropdown at the bottom
22:03:30  <Eddi|zuHause2> select electric engines at the bottom
22:03:33  <Hackykid> hehe
22:03:52  <RichK67> yeah, it was just as intuitive for me first time too :p
22:04:10  <Sacro> and make sure "wagon removal" is on
22:04:10  <Eddi|zuHause2> i had no problem with that...
22:04:13  <Hackykid> ah, i see :-)
22:04:17  <Hackykid> on?
22:04:20  <Hackykid> what does it do?
22:04:30  <Eddi|zuHause2> probably because the DBSetXL has electric engines from the start
22:04:42  <Hackykid> no it doesnt
22:04:48  <Sacro> cos when youve got a lovely UKRS mineral train with 20* 5/8 wagons, and it goes to 8/8 wagons, it gets a great deal longer
22:04:48  <Hackykid> not if you start in 1920 anyway
22:04:51  <Eddi|zuHause2> wagon removal removes wagons, so the train keeps its length
22:05:13  <Eddi|zuHause2> sure... it has an electric engine in 1920
22:05:41  <Hackykid> hmm, indeed it does
22:05:50  <Hackykid> wonder why i thought it didnt
22:06:03  <Hackykid> prolly built the wrong type of depot
22:06:16  <Hackykid> Sacro: it account for variable length wagons too? cool :-)
22:06:51  *** xahodo [] has quit []
22:06:53  <Eddi|zuHause2> wagon removal removes wagons, so the train keeps its length after replacing with longer units
22:06:57  <Sacro> yeah :) its only used for that and conversion to mu's
22:07:25  <Hackykid> and what about engines that come with a tender? :-0
22:07:29  <Hackykid> or is that a mu?
22:07:56  <CIA-3> richk * r5206 /branch/MiniIN/ (debug.c debug.h order_gui.c train_cmd.c vehicle.c):
22:07:56  <CIA-3> [MiniIN]: [AdditionalOrders]: Cleanup of some commented out sections.
22:07:56  <CIA-3> Gave debug a new category (addorders) to retain debug tracking.
22:08:05  <Eddi|zuHause2> it just looks at the length of the train, no matter what you replaced
22:08:19  <Sacro> Hackykid: yeah, it deals with them
22:08:27  <Sacro> it goes by pixel length of the train
22:08:34  <Sacro> or maybe half tile
22:08:44  <Eddi|zuHause2> i think it does it by tile
22:09:46  <Eddi|zuHause2> at least my 3-units trains (e.g. ET-87 got replaced by 4 unit dual headed (e.g. BR 420)
22:09:55  <Eddi|zuHause2> +)
22:10:26  <Eddi|zuHause2> engine+2 wagons in each case
22:11:27  <Eddi|zuHause2> wait... the 420 is not dual headed
22:11:31  <Eddi|zuHause2> i meant something else
22:11:48  <Eddi|zuHause2> whatever...
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22:17:22  <Sacro> hmm, i wonder if i can use winegcc to produce windows binaries under linux
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22:22:40  <[D]Shaman> RichK67: Good job :)
22:22:57  <RichK67> which bit??
22:23:08  <RichK67> TGP may be snafu :(
22:24:10  <[D]Shaman> eh, orders thingie :P
22:24:20  <[D]Shaman> snafu? :o
22:24:36  *** angerman [] has quit []
22:25:17  <RichK67> or not... it was giving bad desyncs in network games... ive modified TGP's VOID edge routine, and i havent seen a desync yet; but then, the real test is setting it loose out there on a real heavy duty server
22:25:50  <RichK67> speaking of which, would anyone fancy running a server with a test TGP terrain??
22:26:31  <Sacro> is it possible to configure the Makefile to work with winegcc and wineg++?
22:27:02  <[D]Shaman> RichK67: I might be able to.
22:28:03  <Sacro> all it needs is to call wine before endian_check
22:28:26  <[D]Shaman> I used to run ottd from my linux server
22:28:29  <Sacro> [D]Shaman: situation normal, all fubared up
22:28:36  <[D]Shaman> but couldn't be arsed to restart it after it crashed :P
22:28:44  <[D]Shaman> since you were working on a new version
22:29:25  <Sacro> who here works on the makefile? pweeeeeease
22:30:02  <glx> Sacro: try TARGET_CC in Makefile.config
22:30:26  <glx> though I'm not sure for the name
22:31:31  <Sacro> glx: ./configure --target-cc=winegcc --target-cxx=wineg++ --host-cc=winegcc --os=MINGW
22:31:52  <glx> an that works?
22:31:59  <glx> +d
22:32:00  <[D]Shaman> should try to figgure out how i compiled the last minIN :P
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22:32:14  <Sacro> glx: but it falls over on endian_check.exe cos its not a valid linux binary, but if you pass it through wine it echos out the correct values for the header
22:32:54  <Sacro> aside from the fact it calls it
22:33:06  <glx> hmm how is it done in compile_farm for OSX?
22:34:21  <Sacro> ahh, if you remove the .so suffix, it goes
22:34:27  <Sacro> but strgen borks
22:34:53  <glx> strgen should be compiled for host too I think
22:35:14  <RichK67> okies - can someone who has a nightly dedicated server, please load this map, and then can lots of us join... it should be obvious if the map is still causing desyncs
22:35:24  <Sacro> glx: yeah, that DOES need prefixing with wine
22:35:25  <glx> Sacro: use gcc for --host-cc
22:35:50  <glx> so target is wine and host is linux
22:35:59  <Sacro> i dont see how that will work :S
22:35:59  <XeryusTC> i'm a small genious, go to and see the numbers change :)
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22:36:35  <Sacro> glx: cc1: error: invalid option 'no-cygwin'
22:36:41  <[D]Shaman> wtf's that xer?
22:36:50  <Eddi|zuHause2> arg... the tick sound on update makes you crazy, XeryusTC
22:36:51  <[D]Shaman> and you lack home.html and menu.html :p
22:36:55  <Sacro> XeryusTC: your frames are borked
22:37:10  <Sacro> glx: cc1: error: invalid option 'no-cygwin'
22:37:19  <glx> Sacro: I read :)
22:37:25  <XeryusTC> it's my small eco system simulator, only one specie that eats food and there are some random births and some random deads
22:37:29  <Sacro> glx: me too, im loosing my sanity
22:37:34  <XeryusTC> and alot of deads if they don't get enough food
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22:38:02  <Sacro> glx: ive decieded that if i cant run linux openttd, then im gonna get it to compile win32 openttd :)
22:38:04  <[D]Shaman> RichK67: Compiling latest :P
22:38:10  <RichK67> ty
22:38:15  <[D]Shaman> dunno if it'll compile properly
22:38:17  <[D]Shaman> but we'll see xD
22:38:24  <XeryusTC> i just had a population of around 150 animals so they ran out of food really quickly and there were only ~15 left after 4 ticks :)
22:38:27  <Sacro> and winegcc/winegxx seems easier than installing a cross compiler
22:38:42  <[D]Shaman> it compiled O_O
22:38:44  <[D]Shaman> without errors O_O
22:38:55  <Sacro> [D]Shaman: have faith young padawan
22:39:07  <glx> Sacro:
22:39:09  <[D]Shaman> Sacro: Last time i tried compiling
22:39:11  <[D]Shaman> it took me 3 hours
22:39:14  <[D]Shaman> now.. 2 minutes :P
22:39:19  <Sacro> XeryusTC: s/eatable/edible
22:39:19  * Eddi|zuHause2 would not want to be padawan of Sacro's
22:39:28  <glx> Sacro: the rules for compile farm, maybe that could help you
22:39:49  * XeryusTC thinks that his app kills all female animals :(
22:39:54  <Sacro> glx: all that needs doing is a $WINE_PREFIX before all calls to binaries
22:40:06  <[D]Shaman> ok, it -seemed- to work
22:40:08  <XeryusTC> Sacro: thnx for the correcton ;)
22:40:34  <Eddi|zuHause2> Sacro: and you can't just change those lines in the makefile?
22:40:38  <Sacro> glx: thats set to "wine " if --os=wine, so that exe's are ran properley
22:40:47  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause2: yeah, im not sure how to though :P
22:40:48  <[D]Shaman> RichK67: Up and running
22:41:01  <[D]Shaman> [D]oomcraft mini_IN , password = 'doom'
22:41:05  <Eddi|zuHause2> just write "wine" everywhere you think it's appropriate ;)
22:41:11  <Sacro> and then if someone would be kind enough to check it and merge it, theres another compiler thats supprted, and its a lot easier than having a mingw cross compiler
22:41:11  <Eddi|zuHause2> either it works, or it doesn't ;)
22:41:12  <RichK67> okies
22:41:18  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause2: hehe, s/*/wine :P
22:41:19  <glx> Sacro: why not just crosscompiling with mingw32 and then run the exe in wine
22:41:33  <Eddi|zuHause2> * is no valid regexp
22:41:34  <[D]Shaman> now just to make sure my miniIN is compiled WITH a rev set to be able to join
22:41:43  <[D]Shaman> then I'll ask Matryx to test as well when he gets back monday.
22:41:50  <Sacro> glx: because then i'd need mingw-gcc, mingw-gxx, binutils, windres etc
22:41:57  <Sacro> glx: whereas i already have wine up and running
22:42:07  <glx> ah ok
22:42:35  <RichK67> be there soon - compiling
22:43:00  <glx> but I still think compiling with wine is a crosscompilation so HOST_CC is gcc (from linux)
22:43:04  <[D]Shaman> what's the rev on the latest compile, RichK67? :o
22:43:20  <RichK67> compile the MiniIN with RELEASE=<xxx> whatever you want
22:43:26  <RichK67> or not
22:43:29  <RichK67> ignore me
22:43:30  <[D]Shaman> or not in vs80 ;)
22:44:25  <Eddi|zuHause2> that "norev000" must come from somewhere, too, so just change that ;)
22:44:31  <Sacro> right, added WINE to list of compilers in ./configure
22:44:44  <RichK67> dunno - ive not done a sync with trunk yet tonite, but im at 5206 according to Show Log
22:46:00  <RichK67> hang on, did you do a MiniIN?? or a trunk?? i need to check against trunk
22:46:07  <RichK67> sorry
22:46:13  <[D]Shaman> MiniIN >_<
22:47:05  <RichK67> (trunk is 5203 currently)
22:47:07  <[D]Shaman> compiling trunk, then :P
22:47:53  <[D]Shaman> I'm at revision 5206.. but that's due to miniIN :P
22:48:05  <[D]Shaman> time to compile 'my' version
22:48:08  <RichK67> yup, ditto :)
22:48:38  <Sacro> hmm, its compiling
22:48:38  <RichK67> except my MiniIN has the next set of mods in it, so its a r5206M, which is no good :(
22:49:06  <[D]Shaman> where do you change revision anyways? :o
22:49:12  <[D]Shaman> (what file)
22:49:25  <Sacro> glx: it compiles...
22:49:29  <Eddi|zuHause2> a sync with trunk could be important, because it has the branch thing for the rev included
22:49:46  <RichK67> if you have svn installed, it goes to the SVN repository and sets it itself
22:50:02  <glx> Eddi|zuHause2: and it uses real latest rev
22:50:10  <Eddi|zuHause2> the pre-compiled one on the website is impossible to use for multiplayer
22:50:13  <[D]Shaman> ah, network.h
22:50:13  <Sacro> it doesnt like ssize_t :s
22:50:14  <RichK67> eddi: give me chance; i want to debug my first item first ;)
22:50:17  <Eddi|zuHause2> because the rev string is too long ;)
22:50:33  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause2: peter1138 has increased the rev string length i think
22:50:44  <glx> but that's fix with the trunk update yes
22:50:56  <Eddi|zuHause2> i know
22:50:59  <RichK67> yup, its in r5197
22:52:11  <[D]Shaman> RichK67: Ottd Trunk booted.
22:52:42  <RichK67> cool - name + pwd?
22:52:49  <RichK67> = 3
22:52:56  <[D]Shaman> need to check it out, it 'might' appear as [D]oomcraft // doom
22:53:02  <[D]Shaman> but not sure if it loaded the right config file
22:53:17  <[D]Shaman> vs80 is slower to compile than debian >_<
22:54:14  <RichK67> there is a doomcraft server, but its showing as 0.4.7
22:54:36  <[D]Shaman> O_O
22:55:02  * [D]Shaman goes fix
22:56:32  <Sacro> well im compileing win32 under winegcc, its good fun
22:56:33  *** Mucht [] has joined #openttd
22:56:36  <[D]Shaman> try now?
22:57:27  *** Mucht is now known as Mucht|zZz
22:58:16  <Sacro> ger
22:58:35  <Sacro> glx: any idea how to stop winegcc looking in /usr/src/include?
22:58:56  <glx> I don't know winegcc
22:59:35  <RichK67> nope - i had one match to it, tried to connect, and got an immediate connection lost
23:00:21  <Sacro> glx: well ive told it WIN32:=1
23:00:22  <Eddi|zuHause2> Sacro: change path in Makefile.config?
23:00:36  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause2: yeah, im trying to work out where it defines that path
23:00:41  <Sacro> maybe unix:=
23:00:42  <Eddi|zuHause2> (wild guess)
23:01:02  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause2: well its either Makefile.config, or somewhere in /makefiledir
23:01:27  <Sacro> yeah, it totally borks over SDL
23:01:33  <[D]Shaman> RichK67: Try again
23:01:42  <[D]Shaman> i forgot to give the ottd user access :P
23:01:45  <[D]Shaman> == crash on connect
23:02:28  <RichK67> yup
23:02:39  <[D]Shaman> the exe file (even though r5203) shows it's version 0.4.7 :P
23:02:43  <Sacro> lol
23:03:24  * [D]Shaman reboots server
23:03:26  <RichK67> are you loading the TestTGP.sav game? im sure it was a 512x512??
23:03:41  <[D]Shaman> eh, i'm just booting up the server
23:03:55  <[D]Shaman> bit useless to load anything if it doesn't run yet xD
23:03:59  *** Dred_furst` [] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)]
23:04:06  <Darkvater> eh hello
23:04:10  <Darkvater> pong to all who pinged me
23:04:59  <[D]Shaman> connecting == working
23:05:03  <RichK67> ol
23:05:08  <RichK67> lol even
23:05:17  <[D]Shaman> now to find that savegame
23:06:34  <Sacro> hehe, i got the network stuff to stop failing
23:06:44  <Sacro> make WITH_NETWORK:=0 -k
23:06:53  <[D]Shaman> RichK67: Can you connect normally? :o
23:07:29  <RichK67> i cant see your server in the list
23:07:33  <[D]Shaman> Unnamed server :P
23:07:42  <[D]Shaman> without a config file it does seem to load
23:07:47  <glx> Sacro: great :P how will you play on internet?
23:08:19  <[D]Shaman> RichK67: == ip.
23:08:48  <RichK67> i just tried that, and im in... just wasnt being advertised
23:08:54  <Sacro> glx: well, thats the next trick...
23:09:07  <Sacro> glx: im just waiting to see if it links
23:09:47  <RichK67> can you get it to load the TGP game?
23:10:42  <Sacro> RichK67: i cant even get it to link :P
23:11:19  <[D]Shaman> RichK67: if i have that sav yes
23:11:45  <RichK67>
23:12:13  <RichK67> should be a 512x512 mountainous, low water, rough
23:12:36  <[D]Shaman> loaded.
23:13:11  * Sacro needs a faster pc
23:13:41  <Eddi|zuHause2> is server traffic mostly outgoing or mostly incoming?
23:13:50  <RichK67> great, thanks.. now to see if it desyncs lots
23:13:55  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause2: yes
23:13:59  <Eddi|zuHause2> good ;)
23:14:27  <Eddi|zuHause2> now... anyone got a semantically loaded answer?
23:14:29  <Sacro> next q?
23:14:38  <Sacro> !whatis semantically
23:15:00  <Eddi|zuHause2> an answer that has actual content ;)
23:15:16  <Sacro> ahh
23:15:43  <Eddi|zuHause2> (with regards to what i wanted to know, instead of what i asked ;))
23:16:21  <Eddi|zuHause2> i should have learned to ask proper questions meanwhile... ;)
23:16:55  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause2: yes, at least state whether you mean inclusive or exclusive OR
23:17:30  <Eddi|zuHause2> i mean an 'illogical' OR ;)
23:18:24  <Eddi|zuHause2> i.e. one that should not be evaluated as logical expression, but rather as a concatenation of questions ;)
23:18:48  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause2: hmm, thats getting complex
23:18:52  <Eddi|zuHause2> (i.e. should be answered by an equally long concatenation of matching answers)
23:19:40  <Eddi|zuHause2> i have not even started to get complex ;)
23:19:53  <RichK67> anyone who can, please join me on the Unnamed server at ... i need a load of players to see if a desync occurs
23:20:15  <Brianetta> RichK67: Version?
23:20:29  <RichK67> just set up a single line each should be enough... if still alive after 6 months, i think i will have got the bug
23:20:37  <Eddi|zuHause2> trunk head? no newgrfs?
23:20:40  <RichK67> r5203
23:20:43  <Sacro> grr, cant find afxres.h
23:20:47  <RichK67> yup... plain vanilla
23:21:11  <Eddi|zuHause2> Sacro: i'd guess the DirectX SDK
23:21:20  <Brianetta> Just checking out / compiling
23:21:23  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause2: but im in Wine
23:21:32  <Eddi|zuHause2> exactly ;)
23:21:39  <RichK67> check out Lake Oh Wow  for a really cool looking lake
23:21:45  <Sacro> ah bums
23:22:48  <[D]Shaman> RichK67: More building == more likely of a desync :)
23:23:06  <[D]Shaman> you can join company 1 if you want to go build stuff.. that is, once i get money flowing in ^^
23:23:09  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... i'm not sure if i have game semantic changing patches applied right now...
23:23:36  <Sacro> well i have afxres.h
23:23:49  <Bjarni> do you believe in ghosts?
23:23:57  <RichK67> im in running a coal line, but the desync was happening really very quickly - brianetta can confirm this
23:24:06  <Brianetta> yes
23:24:12  <Brianetta> seconds, if that
23:24:25  <Bjarni> I just spent the last 3-4 minutes chasing weird sounds
23:24:55  <Eddi|zuHause2> hihi ;)
23:25:08  <Bjarni> like somebody is moving stuff around
23:25:16  <Bjarni> and guess what it was
23:25:27  <Bjarni> a cat walking on the roof
23:25:35  <Eddi|zuHause2> lol ;)
23:26:04  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... dutchcatw should not cause any harm, does it?
23:26:55  <Bjarni> it's like cat foodsteps on the roof tiles got the sound amplified though the roof construction or something
23:27:15  <Bjarni> also only the low frequency noise got though, making it hard to identity the sound
23:27:34  <RichK67> foodsteps... yup, sounds like my cat ... only moves in search of food ;)
23:27:39  <glx> Eddi|zuHause2: it's just cosmetic
23:28:24  * Sacro is still fiddling
23:28:43  <Bjarni> but it was really eerie, as I figured that it's something outside, so I opened the window, but there was no sound outside, since it was some sort of echo, resonance in the construction
23:29:00  <Eddi|zuHause2> i guess i am having trouble...
23:29:30  <Bjarni> so it really sounded like somebody moving stuff around inside the room, yet it was completely empty.... hence the ghost reference
23:30:35  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... now the game hangs
23:30:38  <[D]Shaman> Eddi|zuHause2: Yer named after the pope? :o
23:30:52  <Eddi|zuHause2> not sure...
23:30:56  <[D]Shaman> Johannes :P
23:31:02  <[D]Shaman> First time you were too slow to join
23:31:07  <[D]Shaman> this time you reported desync error
23:31:09  <RichK67> very slow :(
23:31:59  <Eddi|zuHause2> when was the pope elected?
23:32:06  <[D]Shaman> no idea
23:32:15  <Eddi|zuHause2> i thought that was after my birth... but i am not sure
23:32:18  <[D]Shaman> Only know his name was Johannes summat :P
23:32:45  *** Darkvater [] has quit ["leaving"]
23:32:47  <glx> [D]Shaman: I'm sure I'm the slowest client
23:33:50  <Eddi|zuHause2> Johannes Paul II
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23:36:54  <Eddi|zuHause> narf...
23:36:56  *** ThePizzaKing [] has joined #openttd
23:37:01  <Eddi|zuHause> i hate 24h disconnect
23:37:11  <RichK67> \h
23:37:15  <RichK67> ah even
23:39:13  <Sacro> lol
23:39:51  <Sacro> Pope JP2 is dead
23:40:02  <Hackykid> hmm, my finaces window isnt showing any numbers
23:40:06  <Hackykid> *finances
23:40:22  <Hackykid> except for balance and loan...
23:40:40  <RichK67> ah... the student patch ;)
23:41:07  <Hackykid> hm?
23:41:30  <RichK67> students never know anything about their finance other than their balance and loan ;)
23:41:42  <Hackykid> hehe :-p
23:42:28  <[D]Shaman> glx: Yar but Eddi|zuHause's connection seems to suck, unlike yours :P
23:42:52  <Sacro> hehe
23:43:06  * Sacro doesnt think Hackykid plays OTTD much
23:43:22  <Sacro> gah, stop trying to compile unix.h thumps his compiler
23:43:28  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah... my connection is worse than ISDN ;)
23:43:32  <Hackykid> well, i dont really :-)
23:43:37  *** |Jeroen| [] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
23:43:46  <Hackykid> i just started my first game in a long long long time
23:44:22  <Eddi|zuHause> the finance window will fill itself as soon as there is activity (!= 0)
23:44:25  <Hackykid> and i cant see how much income my trains are making!
23:44:35  <Hackykid> pfft, theres plenty activity
23:44:51  <Hackykid> hmm, maybe its cause i used the change date cheat!
23:45:12  <Hackykid> (forgot to set start year hehe)
23:45:32  <Eddi|zuHause> that might be it ;)
23:46:02  <Sacro> hmm
23:46:10  <Sacro> if you dont define WIN32, it falls through to unix
23:46:17  <Eddi|zuHause> i let the game run minimized... cry if i disconnect
23:46:28  <Eddi|zuHause> (which i will ;p)
23:47:21  <glx> Hackykid: if you are in a year before your company creation, it displays nothing
23:47:32  <Hackykid> ah
23:48:01  <Hackykid> oh well
23:48:19  <Hackykid> i'll just have to wait a few more years then
23:49:38  *** Sacro [n=Sacro@] has quit ["using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.3.12"]
23:51:31  *** Sacro [n=Sacro@] has joined #openttd
23:53:27  <Sacro> grr, it keeps appending .so to .exe
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23:56:32  *** Eddi|zuHause2 [] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
23:58:54  <CIA-3> richk * r5207 /branch/MiniIN/ (11 files in 2 dirs): [MiniIN]: [GRF Cargo Subtype]: Reverted 5144 as now included in trunk.

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