Log for #openttd on 18th August 2006:
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00:00:00  <Bjarni> then we will see if you use your voice or keyboard
00:00:43  <Eddi|zuHause> /test
00:01:11  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... konversation does not seem to have a shortcut like mIRC for sending the text uninterpreted...
00:01:25  <Eddi|zuHause> in mIRC it's Alt+Enter
00:01:58  <Bjarni> that reminds me of the /part and /quit thing on bash where people should reply /quit. One guy told it where he started his own sentence with "/quit and /part were on a trip (or whatever" and he got a rather long quit message :p
00:03:44  <Eddi|zuHause> actually... i am missing several small features of mIRC that i so got used to...
00:04:00  <Eddi|zuHause> i should be running mIRC under wine ;)
00:04:21  *** Cassac [] has joined #openttd
00:04:54  <Cassac> bugs
00:05:00  <Cassac> Hi
00:05:01  <Cassac> ;)
00:05:04  <Gonozal_VIII> /quit
00:05:07  <Cassac> hehe :P
00:05:22  <OwenS> Hmm
00:05:27  <OwenS> :(
00:05:30  <Cassac> just found ttd the other day..
00:05:31  <OwenS> [01:05:24] - 432 OwenS /quit :Erroneous Nickname
00:05:46  <Cassac> How do you play multigame?
00:06:27  <Eddi|zuHause> oh... and the owen highlight thing is probably a setting, because when i set mIRC to highlight "Eddi", i never got highlighted when they said "Eddie"
00:06:44  <glx> Cassac: do you mean multiplayer?
00:07:06  <Gonozal_VIII> that would be "Eddi*"
00:07:57  <Gonozal_VIII> mirc is cool :-)
00:08:24  <lws1984> irssi is ice then
00:08:27  <lws1984> :p
00:08:41  <Eddi|zuHause> mIRC isn't that bad... especially since it got UTF-8 support...
00:08:51  <Eddi|zuHause> but it's not complete...
00:09:01  <glx> and it's not free
00:09:10  <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: I believe it stops reading futher at the first capital
00:09:22  <OwenS> Owens possibly won't highlight him
00:10:23  <Eddi|zuHause> that would be kinda stupid...
00:16:19  <Bjarni> Owens
00:17:06  <OwenS> Yes?
00:17:26  <Bjarni> oh, it's getting late
00:17:39  <Bjarni> <OwenS>	Owens possibly won't highlight him <-- read that as hightlight me
00:17:42  <Bjarni> so I tested it
00:17:55  <OwenS> lol
00:19:41  <Gonozal_VIII> hmm minin changes.log is empty.. wasn't empty some hours ago...
00:20:25  <Eddi|zuHause> i hate not having CIA-x in this channel...
00:20:36  <Eddi|zuHause> you miss out all the changes...
00:20:47  <Bjarni> yeah
00:20:56  <Bjarni> it's amazing how hard it is to move a bot :p
00:21:03  <Gonozal_VIII> i'm waiting for a sync withh trunk..
00:21:10  <Gonozal_VIII> -h
00:22:13  <glx> Bjarni: yeah and they keep trying to make it join #openttd on freenode
00:22:38  <Bjarni> last commit was 30 hours ago
00:22:42  <Bjarni> now how did that happen?
00:22:51  <Bjarni> maybe my log broke
00:23:12  <Bjarni> yeah
00:23:26  <Bjarni> it stopped sending out emails to the developers with the commit logs
00:24:09  <Bjarni> well
00:24:17  <Bjarni> we got one commit in that date thing
00:24:20  <Bjarni> nothing big
00:25:12  <Gonozal_VIII> i tested that one, i even found a small bug that could be fixed *proud*
00:25:16  <mikk36> weee
00:25:22  <mikk36> nice to have fear mp for free :)
00:25:38  <Bjarni> huh
00:25:46  <Bjarni> fear multiplayer?
00:25:46  <mikk36> F.E.A.R
00:25:49  <Bjarni> wtf is that?
00:26:04  <mikk36> First Encounter Assault Recon
00:26:19  <Eddi|zuHause> that did not exactly help ;)
00:26:20  <Bjarni> unreal where you have no weapons, but everybody else does?
00:26:30  <mikk36>
00:26:39  <Bjarni> now that would be the fear factor... you lose, but the question is how fast :p
00:26:59  <Eddi|zuHause> i even loose unreal with weapon ;)
00:27:05  <mikk36> lol
00:27:31  <glx> I like to be a sniper in unreal
00:27:40  <Bjarni> that reminds me of when I tried quake for the first time
00:27:50  <Eddi|zuHause> on average, i get -5 kills in any egoshooter ;)
00:27:55  <mikk36> lol
00:28:27  <Eddi|zuHause> -20, if you can fall off something ;)
00:29:02  <Eddi|zuHause> you can kill yourself in the most amazing ways ;)
00:29:19  <glx> yeah RPG in doom is fun to use near a wall
00:29:20  <Gonozal_VIII> ^^
00:29:24  <Bjarni> I had a real 2D gfx card, so I had max 5 fps, sometimes 1. I lost big time and when I finally got a nice weapon, I ran away from the large area to increase the framerate enough to actually do something and somebody respawned right in front of me (lucky, I was just passing though that room). I fired and killed him right away
00:29:48  <Bjarni> then it became an issue that I "had been lurking, waiting for people to respawn"
00:29:58  <Bjarni> I'm not sure I ever played again
00:30:10  <Bjarni> my only kill and that became an issue
00:30:29  <Eddi|zuHause> reminds me of the time i tried the Prince 3 Demo
00:30:37  <Eddi|zuHause> on my 386 ;)
00:30:50  <JohnUK89> Night all :)
00:30:53  <Eddi|zuHause> i got like a frame every 5 seconds ;)
00:31:11  <Bjarni> actually I thought my graphic card was nice. It had 8 bit colours.... an upgrade at that time
00:31:17  <OwenS> lol
00:31:29  <Bjarni> also it was a portable computer with a SLOW updating monitor
00:31:41  <Bjarni> all I could see was shadows if the framerate became decent
00:31:44  <OwenS> I seem to remember my original PC having a 386, 4MB ram and 2MB HD. Of course, my memory from then sucks
00:31:52  <Eddi|zuHause> my card had an impressive 1MB RAM
00:32:11  <OwenS> Don't even ask me what the graphics card had...
00:32:16  <glx> I have a rage pro with 2MB
00:32:29  <Eddi|zuHause> it could do 64k colours in amazingly high Super VGA resolutions
00:32:47  <Bjarni> oh the resolution... it was 640x480 only
00:33:14  <Bjarni> that computer played monkey island 2 really well :D
00:33:16  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, that is high, if you only knew 256 colours on 320x200 before ;)
00:33:32  <glx> or CGA :)
00:33:36  <Bjarni> it was an upgrade from 640x400@1 bit
00:33:40  <OwenS> Haha
00:33:51  <mikk36> lol
00:34:02  <Gonozal_VIII> b&w display?
00:34:02  <Eddi|zuHause> which is sufficient for e.g Monkey Island, but not for e.g Die Siedler
00:34:08  <Bjarni> you will be amazed how much you can do on a 1 bit monitor if you are creative
00:34:52  <Bjarni> <Gonozal_VIII>	b&w display? <-- what else? Did you expect it to have a colour table, so I could change the colours
00:34:54  <OwenS> Much like you can do shading with 8-bit I would presume
00:35:02  <Bjarni> oh yeah, I want pink and green today
00:35:04  <Bjarni> :p
00:35:07  <OwenS> :P
00:35:14  <Gonozal_VIII> ^^
00:36:08  <Eddi|zuHause> my father's first laptop had like 4 "colour" greyscale monitor
00:36:08  <Bjarni> well, the best game on monocrome was Civilization
00:36:35  <Bjarni> I had a monocrome edition, so each town or unit got a bar under them with a pattern instead of the normal unit colours
00:37:03  <Eddi|zuHause> i always played civilisation with 256 colours
00:37:23  <Eddi|zuHause> i once tried the 16 colour version, and it looked really ugly
00:37:32  <Bjarni> yeah
00:37:47  <Bjarni> the 16 colour version is much worse than the monocrome version
00:37:48  <Eddi|zuHause> 256 colours were amazing
00:37:50  <Bjarni> go figure
00:37:59  <Eddi|zuHause> you saw the water floating at the coast
00:38:17  <mikk36> but still, nothing beats tt :)
00:38:29  <Eddi|zuHause> and the mointains and forrests changed appeareance depending on neighbouring tiles
00:38:31  <OwenS> Ill be happy when OpenTTD looses it's 8-Bit graphics though
00:38:38  <mikk36> yeah
00:39:05  <Bjarni> and the year limit
00:39:25  <mikk36> why is there a year limit anyway, if the game is totally rebuilt ?
00:39:26  <Bjarni> then I will be looking into vehicles of the 19th century
00:39:32  <Eddi|zuHause> and the only-one-level limit ;)
00:39:49  <Gonozal_VIII> 19th century vehicles, yeah
00:39:54  <mikk36> lol
00:40:06  <Bjarni> steam ships with paddle wheels
00:40:10  <Bjarni> would be awesome
00:40:19  <mikk36> riiight :P
00:40:20  <Gonozal_VIII> horsetrains :D
00:40:29  <Eddi|zuHause> 3rd century vehicles ;)
00:40:52  <mikk36> flintstones stile :P
00:41:07  <mikk36> style*
00:41:14  <OwenS> Once one has played Simutrans for a bit TTD's graphics look quite positively ugly :(
00:41:23  <Gonozal_VIII> the more passengers a train has, the faster it goes^^
00:41:34  <OwenS> Haha
00:41:38  <OwenS> Wooden rails :P
00:41:42  <Bjarni> a long time ago, we talked about this and we (DV) decided that we are against using anything with horses or any other animals
00:41:57  <OwenS> :( Why? Too slow?
00:42:01  <Gonozal_VIII> why?
00:42:02  <Bjarni> Gonozal_VIII: downhill?
00:42:15  <Bjarni> the higher the load, the faster it goes downhill
00:42:15  <Gonozal_VIII> flinstones style
00:42:30  <OwenS> Bjarni: They would have to be unable to stop from speed though, fun ^^ :P
00:42:33  <glx> the animal could die
00:42:46  <glx> and that's against ttd rules
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00:43:19  <mikk36> actually, yeah, even railroad tycoon looks better, but it doesn't have the nice funky pixelart :)
00:43:22  <Gonozal_VIII> no really.. why no animaly?
00:43:27  *** Nigel [~Nigel@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:43:27  <Eddi|zuHause> i think it would be nice to have horse-tram and stuff...
00:43:36  <Gonozal_VIII> -y+s
00:43:50  <Eddi|zuHause> but i can live without it ;)
00:43:58  <Bjarni> hehe, that reminds me of Flintstones. I once saw an episode where Fred and Barney took the bus, ran to make it and got in. They then said they were lucky to be on the bus so they didn't have to walk. Then the bus driver said "starting... feeds down" and all passengers put their feeds down to move the bus
00:44:17  <Bjarni> <OwenS>	:( Why? Too slow? <-- no, look silly or something
00:44:25  <Eddi|zuHause> "feet", not "feeds"
00:44:31  <Bjarni> haha
00:44:32  <mikk36> how do u make a horse small yet clear enough ?
00:44:37  <Bjarni> ok, I am getting tired
00:44:40  <mikk36> 2-3 pixels big ? :P
00:44:55  <Bjarni> draw the horses to be fat
00:45:00  <OwenS> Nah, move to 256px/tile
00:45:20  <mikk36> Bjarni, riight. then the horse will be 6 pixels big :P
00:45:23  <Eddi|zuHause> horses the size of a locomotive... should be fun ;)
00:45:34  <Bjarni> once guy once wrote on the forum that he had this brilliant idea about making each tile 1024x1024 and then you could zoom as much as you would like
00:45:41  <Bjarni> he really thought it would be a good idea
00:45:46  <Gonozal_VIII> not a single horse.. a lot of them
00:45:48  <OwenS> XD
00:46:00  <mikk36> Bjarni, but really, why not ? :)
00:46:07  <OwenS> Calculating HP would be insanely easy though :P
00:46:15  <Bjarni> in a spritebased game?
00:46:32  <mikk36> and ?
00:46:32  <Gonozal_VIII> a horse doesn't realy have 1 hp
00:46:43  <mikk36> horse has less
00:46:43  <Bjarni> that depends on the horse
00:46:51  <mikk36> and then u'd have to feed it etc :P
00:46:55  <mikk36> let it rest and so on :D
00:47:01  <Gonozal_VIII> running cost
00:47:06  <mikk36> would be huge :D
00:47:12  <Eddi|zuHause> that's running cost/breakdowns/etc.
00:47:23  <OwenS> Mental breakdowns? XD
00:47:32  <mikk36> oops, horse died :D
00:47:32  <Bjarni> btw Napoleon started the railroad building (without knowing it)
00:47:40  <Bjarni> he started a war, that increased the price of grain
00:47:48  <mikk36> no shit :)
00:47:59  <Bjarni> then horses became really expensive to feed and a mine tried to use steam instead
00:48:15  <Bjarni> didn't really work well, but it was a start
00:48:44  <mikk36> one question about the graphics: why do the new houses have to look so ugly ?
00:49:10  <Bjarni> because their parents would look ugly :p
00:49:37  <Bjarni> actually I don't know
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00:50:04  <Gonozal_VIII> game could start in the 18th century with horses and some very expensive steam engines at the end of the century :-)
00:50:48  <Bjarni> well, I can recall two people against the horse idea. One was DV and the other one was dominik81
00:50:54  <JohnUK89> Gonozal_VIII, Steam engines didn't really come into use until 1830...19th Century :)
00:51:10  <JohnUK89> Well...1827 if you wanna be picky
00:51:17  <Bjarni> bye bye dominik, so the anti-horse campaign is now reduced to one person
00:51:45  <JohnUK89> NO HORSES IN OTTD! :P
00:51:51  <Gonozal_VIII> didn't you go to sleep some time ago john? *gg*
00:51:57  <mikk36> lol
00:52:00  *** Nigel [~Nigel@] has joined #openttd
00:52:07  <JohnUK89> Gonozal_VIII, I was putting a download on :P
00:52:10  <Bjarni> JohnUK89: why not?
00:52:13  <OwenS> Damn LXF rearanging everything, I can't find it now :(
00:52:21  <Bjarni> it's not like you have to ride them or anything
00:52:36  <JohnUK89> Bjarni: I was joking :)
00:53:05  <JohnUK89> Hence the :P
00:53:33  <Bjarni> there is one problem with horses though
00:53:39  <JohnUK89> Too slow?
00:53:54  <Bjarni> eventually somebody will bug them to produce sparks or diesel smoke or something
00:54:05  <JohnUK89> Lmao
00:54:13  <mikk36> some things i hate for example in the urban renewal pack: the docks, the citibank, airportset,urban renew
00:54:50  <mikk36> i hate the docks most i think
00:55:01  <Bjarni> or use the horn/steam whistle
00:55:21  <JohnUK89> Bjarni: or make them go at 10,000mp/h
00:55:51  <Gonozal_VIII> i would like the idea of starting a game at the beginning of rail history
00:56:15  *** Eddi|zuHause2 [] has joined #openttd
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00:56:44  <OwenS> Also, don't trains lack movement animation?
00:56:49  <OwenS> They would glide...
00:57:24  <Bjarni> btw did you know that it was not until the 1850s, that means of measurements got invented to make pistons and cylinders fit each other. Until then, the pistons were made too small to ensure that they would not jam, so a lot of steam just ran though the gap
00:57:32  <JohnUK89> Right, download's on...I'm off...night
00:57:40  <Bjarni> making the pistons really leaky and inefficient
00:58:12  <Bjarni> <OwenS>	Also, don't trains lack movement animation? <-- this feature is under development
00:58:51  <Gonozal_VIII> animated sprites?
00:59:13  <mikk36> what more is there to animate ?
00:59:23  <DaleStan> The piston rods, for one.
00:59:29  <mikk36> trains getting derty if not serviced enough ? :P
00:59:33  <mikk36> dirty*
01:00:00  <mikk36> erm.. pistons etc.. we'd have to zoom 4 times more to see them properly i think
01:00:10  <Gonozal_VIII> snow on the trains when they are above the snow line^^
01:00:26  <mikk36> and then clouds that snow too ? :)
01:00:34  <mikk36> the trains don't get snowy that easily
01:01:00  <Bjarni> there is an animated gif of sprites of a steam locomotive with moving rods somewhere on the patch graphics forum... I think
01:01:06  <Bjarni> it looks really cool
01:01:33  <Eddi|zuHause2> how is the water animated?
01:01:49  <Bjarni> palette animation
01:01:52  <Gonozal_VIII> so horses would be perfectly possible if somebody makes them
01:02:20  <mikk36>
01:02:36  <Bjarni> also because here is how it works. Each time a vehicle moves, it adds to a counter and based on that counter, a vehicle can pick different sprites, meaning the RPM on the wheels depend on the current speed of the engine
01:03:22  <Gonozal_VIII> :-)
01:03:45  <OwenS> Hmm, I wonder how hard it would be to extract the actual simulation stuff form OpenTTD
01:03:46  <mikk36> another beautiful winter shot:
01:04:06  <Bjarni> now if we can make the steam puffs in sync with the pistons using that counter, then it would be really cool :)
01:04:25  <mikk36>
01:04:25  <Bjarni> mikk36: ever seen steam operation on a foggy day?
01:04:29  <mikk36>
01:04:35  <mikk36> ?
01:05:05  <Bjarni> a steam locomotive on a day with foggy weather
01:05:15  <mikk36> ?
01:05:26  <mikk36> like that ?
01:05:48  <mikk36>
01:05:51  <Bjarni> the high humidity will prevent the escaped steam from vanishing, making even small engines make huge clouds of steam
01:06:08  <mikk36> aint that logic ?
01:06:14  <Bjarni> <mikk36> ? <-- yeah, a bit like that
01:06:16  <Eddi|zuHause2> eeek... driving on left...
01:06:18  <mikk36> but do we have weather in ottd ?
01:06:18  <Bjarni> actually a lot like that
01:06:50  <OwenS> Driving on the left rocks ^^
01:06:55  <mikk36> bs
01:06:58  <Bjarni> I once recorded a steam locomotive on a foggy day
01:07:03  <Bjarni> didn't end up as expected
01:07:06  <mikk36> :)
01:07:11  <mikk36> what did u expect then ?
01:07:15  <OwenS> mikk36: It's not like it's any different
01:07:22  <Bjarni> a recording of a locomotive
01:07:45  <mikk36> then why does it rock ? :P
01:07:46  <Eddi|zuHause2> i guess you didn't see much of a locomotive ;)
01:07:47  <OwenS> I guess he got a cloud of steam
01:07:56  <Bjarni> what I got was a locomotive sounding the whistle to depart and then it turned into a steam cloud and the cloud started driving
01:08:00  <OwenS> mikk36: Because we do everything else left oriented
01:08:10  <mikk36> what everything else ?
01:08:13  <OwenS> Bjarni: Sounds fynny ^^
01:08:15  <pv2b> in sweden, our trains drive on the left, and our cars drive on the right
01:08:16  <mikk36> i do everything right-oriented :)
01:08:20  <OwenS> mikk36: Reading, for example
01:08:23  <OwenS> Writing
01:08:27  <Bjarni> seriously, the engine vanished completely even though it was 5-10 meters away
01:08:37  <mikk36> OwenS, that is not traffic-related :P
01:08:48  <mikk36> lol @ Bjarni
01:08:56  <Bjarni> I was later told that they had been laughing really hard on the engine because they noticed what happened :D
01:09:28  <OwenS> Noticed the cloud? Or you?
01:09:34  <Bjarni> both
01:09:37  <OwenS> Haha
01:09:40  <Bjarni> the combo
01:10:05  <mikk36>
01:10:09  <mikk36> looks even nicer :)
01:10:31  <Bjarni> looked kind of cool when the funnel was the only visible part of the engine for a sec or two
01:10:53  <OwenS> Im glad I wasn't in any carriages (if applicable) behind it
01:10:54  <mikk36> :P
01:11:06  <Bjarni> OwenS: why?
01:11:17  <OwenS> Suddenly the place goes pitch grey :P
01:11:26  <OwenS> And possibly the smoke starts leaking in...
01:11:38  <Bjarni> it's steam, not smoke
01:11:45  <OwenS> it's a mixture, isn't it?
01:11:54  <Bjarni> if the train is diesel powered, then you realise that something is not right
01:12:00  <Gonozal_VIII> smoke doesn't care about the fog
01:12:20  <Bjarni> <OwenS>	it's a mixture, isn't it? <-- not really. The amount of smoke do not increase due to weather, at least not much
01:12:53  <OwenS> Bjarni: But, the mixture of smoke to steam would stay constant - It's always the same ammount of steam, just it doesn't atmospherically disipate
01:12:54  <Bjarni> smoke+passengers is more of an issue in tunnels
01:13:17  <OwenS> Reminds me of that engine they had to drive backwards
01:14:05  <Bjarni> at departure after a standstill for a while, the driver opens the button of the cylinders to blow out the condensed water. You will get pure water/steam from doing this and that is where the steam cloud came from
01:14:10  <Gonozal_VIII> how did that work with steam subway?
01:14:30  <OwenS> Aah
01:14:40  <Bjarni> ? time
01:14:43  <OwenS> Gonozal_VIII: They fire it out through roof holes
01:15:32  <Bjarni> <OwenS>	Reminds me of that engine they had to drive backwards <-- what so special about driving in reverse?
01:15:40  <Bjarni> I have done that
01:15:47  <Bjarni> with the cars in front of the engine
01:15:55  <OwenS> No, just the loco
01:16:07  <OwenS> Else you become axphyxiated in tunnels
01:16:20  <Bjarni> ahh, the cab-in-front engines
01:16:28  <mikk36> no
01:16:29  <Bjarni> they were designed to drive like that
01:16:33  <mikk36> reverse through the tunnel
01:16:36  <OwenS> These weren't
01:16:42  <OwenS> Southern Pacific Cab-Forward AC-6 4-8-8-2 according to the USSet
01:16:45  <mikk36> to not kill the passengers :)
01:16:53  <Bjarni> hehe
01:16:53  <OwenS> This was a freighter
01:17:06  <Gonozal_VIII> here are often trains with the cars in front of the engine, they don't turn around, so when they come back the other way the engine is in front
01:17:27  <mikk36> shiet
01:17:28  <mikk36>
01:17:36  <mikk36> 200+ km/h hit
01:17:51  <Bjarni> Gonozal_VIII: that's normal. Then they can control the engine from a cab in the rear car
01:18:09  <Eddi|zuHause2> Gonozal_VIII: that is no problem with modern trains, since they got steering wagons on the other end, to control the engine
01:18:53  <Gonozal_VIII> there is no steering wagon at the end, just three normal wagons
01:19:26  <Eddi|zuHause2> you must have strange trains in austria...
01:20:05  <Bjarni> mikk36: at least the car got parts of it left, that looks like a car. I know of an accident where a car was hit with 90 km/h and it became stuck on the locomotive. It was about 10 cm wide afterwards and you had to know that it used to be a car to see it
01:20:05  <Gonozal_VIII> most engines are taurus
01:20:22  <Bjarni> taurus?
01:21:05  <Bjarni> Gonozal_VIII: you got a pic of that?
01:21:06  <mikk36> Bjarni, the sad story is that the car that hit the other one is in one piece, and 2 people that were in it are alive, one of them just broke a leg
01:21:11  <mikk36> all 3 in the other car were killed
01:21:14  <Gonozal_VIII> google has lots
01:23:08  <mikk36> Bjarni, i wonder wy they haven't put up the pics of the other car (the one that was hit)
01:23:08  <mikk36>
01:23:11  <mikk36> at the bottom
01:23:19  <Gonozal_VIII>
01:23:25  <mikk36> the red one is honda civic type-r
01:23:30  <mikk36> wit a rollcage
01:23:31  <Gonozal_VIII>
01:23:33  <mikk36> with*
01:24:34  <Bjarni> Gonozal_VIII: they plan reversing with those engines between stations?
01:25:23  <Bjarni> the last image is mirrored. Look at the text on the front of the engine
01:25:37  <Bjarni> I first read it as BBQ and thought wtf until I noticed :)
01:25:45  <Gonozal_VIII> right^^
01:25:51  <Gonozal_VIII> that's ÖBB
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01:27:27  <Bjarni> I know
01:27:28  <Gonozal_VIII> i don't know if all the trains on this line drive backwards in one direction but i saw it at least twice
01:28:56  <Eddi|zuHause2> somehow i don't think that is practicable...
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01:29:21  <Eddi|zuHause2> you'd have someone to watch signals etc. at the other end of the train
01:29:42  <Eddi|zuHause2> +to have
01:30:24  <Gonozal_VIII> there are only normal passenger wagons on these trains and i never saw somebody standing at the end of the last wagon
01:31:12  <Gonozal_VIII> but the trains are very short, only three wagons so maybe the driver can see enough through mirrors or something
01:32:18  <Eddi|zuHause2> i can't remember seeing a train without drivers cabin at the other end in the past 10 years...
01:33:45  <Gonozal_VIII> i'll take a closer look at that next time a go somewhere by train
01:35:44  <Gonozal_VIII> but as far as i know there is only one guy from öbb on the train, the driver.. and sometimes a second one that checks the tikets... but nobody at the end of the train
01:38:47  <Bjarni> 	<Gonozal_VIII>	but the trains are very short, only three wagons so maybe the driver can see enough through mirrors or something <-- that's illegal to drive based on what you see in the mirrors
01:39:52  <Gonozal_VIII> i realy don't know how they do it... just saw them doing it
01:40:57  * Bjarni got a task for Gonozal_VIII
01:41:02  <Bjarni> figure out how they do it
01:41:40  <Gonozal_VIII> that's a quite difficult task
01:41:45  <Bjarni> it's a single email away
01:42:47  * Bjarni imagines that some of the cars got a cab that Gonozal_VIII never noticed
01:42:48  <Bjarni> :p
01:44:21  <Bjarni> if they don't have a cab, then it's a really interesting thing you noticed
01:44:29  <Bjarni> I need to get some sleep
01:44:38  <Bjarni> see you tomorrow when you got the answer
01:44:40  <Bjarni> :p
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01:49:13  <Gonozal_VIII> wohl doch steuerwagen da^^
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02:33:56  <mikk36> cmon guys, why so silent ?
02:43:24  <Nigel_> mikk36, theres no beer?
02:43:39  <mikk36> what about it ?
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03:31:34  <DaleStan> peter1138: Does GetVehicleCallback automagically return only 8 bits for the 8-bit callbacks, or does it always return 15 bits?
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04:56:48  <lws1984> hehe, lilo's at it again
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05:21:39  <Tobin> lws1984: What's he doing?
05:22:05  <lws1984> --- Log opened Fri Aug 18 00:54:57 2006
05:22:05  <lws1984> 00:54 lilo (i=levin@freenode/staff/pdpc.levin) [Global Notice] Hi all. We've lost contact with one of our main rotation servers....affected users, about 3000. We're removing it from rotation. Apologies for the inconvenience, and any additional information will be sent to wallops ("/quote mode yournick +w").
05:22:10  <lws1984> 00:55 lilo (i=levin@freenode/staff/pdpc.levin) [Global Notice] Have a good morning. Thanks for your patience, and thank you for using freenode!
05:22:39  <lws1984> lost contact with a server...
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06:12:20  <lws1984> hey, anyone know how long it takes before you can take over an AI?
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06:30:35  <MeusH> hi
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07:43:45  <Darkvater> morning
07:45:11  <MeusH> goodmorning Darkvater
07:48:07  <Darkvater> !seen cia
07:48:08  <DorpsGek> Darkvater, cia? hmm... I'm trying to remember... maybe... I'm not sure... no. I don't remember cia.
07:48:13  <Darkvater> F.U.C.K
07:48:21  <Darkvater> this is starting to get on my nerves
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07:56:18  <Gonozal_VIII> "If you go me on the Nerven, I put you in the Gulli and
07:56:18  <Gonozal_VIII> do the Deckel druff and you never ever come back to the Tageslicht"
07:57:28  *** __bebe__ [ssssss@] has joined #openttd
07:58:00  <__bebe__> forgot to change the new IRC address here
07:59:04  <Gonozal_VIII> #openttd channel on <-- empty your cache?
07:59:44  <Rubidium> Gonozal_VIII: the #openttd link is still pointing to freenode
08:00:08  <Gonozal_VIII>
08:00:19  <Gonozal_VIII> ah that link
08:00:36  <__bebe__> :)
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08:02:29  <Darkvater> __bebe__: thanks
08:02:53  <__bebe__> no problem
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08:06:15  <__bebe__> is there a site with a real world maps collection
08:06:56  <Prof_Frink>
08:07:18  <__bebe__> not working
08:07:20  <__bebe__> :S
08:07:23  <__bebe__> :D
08:07:52  <Darkvater>
08:08:15  <__bebe__> hmmm
08:08:25  <__bebe__> not working
08:08:47  <Darkvater> :)
08:08:48  <Gonozal_VIII> ^^
08:08:52  <Prof_Frink> Your intarweb is b0rken.
08:09:03  <__bebe__> yahoo is working OK
08:09:20  <Darkvater> bad DNS server?
08:09:47  <Prof_Frink> sounds like it.
08:12:13  <Gonozal_VIII>
08:13:47  <__bebe__> i was imagining that
08:14:01  <__bebe__> i spent 2 days searching with google
08:14:40  <Gonozal_VIII> search for openttd heightmaps
08:14:56  <Patrick`> there are probably some threads about it on the forum
08:15:17  <Patrick`> with a decent heightmap, you can probably model any scale
08:15:37  <Patrick`> wales would fit into a 2048x2048, or europe into a 512x512 depending on how you spin it
08:15:53  <__bebe__> i tried to make my own maps using the heightmaps found on this site
08:16:04  <__bebe__> specialy on the addon section
08:16:29  <__bebe__> but the earth map resulted mostly fluded
08:16:50  <__bebe__> and there wos whater on mars too
08:16:52  <__bebe__> :D
08:17:02  <__bebe__> *was
08:18:08  <Darkvater> flooded ;)
08:18:44  <__bebe__> sorry for the english
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08:21:31  <Darkvater> Tron_: still no CIA T_T
08:21:52  <Tron_> *sigh*
08:23:02  <Darkvater> I don't want to flame CIA or any of the people there, but how hard can it be?
08:23:13  <Darkvater> If you coded the bot half-properly it's 1! line of change
08:24:20  <guru3> lol
08:24:31  <Tron_> probably they have a shortage of maidens to perform the bot moving ritual
08:26:38  <Rubidium> Darkvater: where is the SQL structure needed for the masterserver?
08:26:58  <Darkvater> Rubidium: SVN
08:26:59  <Rubidium> I've found one on the svn under website, but that one is not up-to-date
08:27:04  <Gonozal_VIII> maybe it was raining outside so they had to make their ritual bot moving fire inside the server room
08:27:08  <Darkvater> it's under masterserver/
08:27:39  <Darkvater> if they're half smart they even have a script for that, where you just input old location & new location and press 'do it!'
08:27:59  * Darkvater cannot imagine the seemingly extreme difficulties this must take
08:28:18  <Rubidium> Darkvater: it is not under masterserver (at least no .sql file)
08:28:36  <Darkvater> you're asking me to look for it, right? ;)
08:29:14  <Rubidium> it would be nice; otherwise I have to add fields to my sql server till the queries succeed
08:29:30  <Darkvater> what do you exactly need?
08:29:46  <Darkvater> dammit, you should've asked yesterday. Had a sript online for someone else who asked about it
08:29:58  <Rubidium> the structure of the SQL tables used by masterserver
08:32:54  <Darkvater> *sigh*
08:32:58  <Darkvater> forgot the password :(
08:32:59  <Darkvater> hang on
08:35:57  <Darkvater> ok, there we go
08:38:00  <Darkvater> Rubidium:
08:39:07  <Darkvater> although you already know the queries, so you can make the fields yourself. Eg look at masterserver/udp.cpp
08:40:00  <Darkvater> the website part just queries the masterserver and retrieves *some* values
08:40:31  <Rubidium> I know
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08:45:50  <Darkvater> hope the file helps
08:47:09  <Rubidium> yes, it does
08:47:28  <Rubidium> thanks, by the way ;)
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08:52:50  <Rubidium> stupid mysql...
08:54:29  <Rubidium> datetime supports dates up to (just) 9999-12-31 :(
08:54:45  <Darkvater> that isn't enough? ;)
08:55:09  <Rubidium> not for 32bits dates
08:55:22  <Patrick`> it's stupid because it means that unless it's using a totally retarded method to store that information, that's an artificial limit
08:55:23  <Darkvater> hehe
08:55:41  <Patrick`> whatever computerised system of measuring time, that date is an arbitrary cutoff
08:55:50  <Patrick`> it's like making the maximum HP 100 instead of 255
08:56:18  <Patrick`> if it's not 2038 or the cutoff for 64-bit unix time, I don't care
08:56:39  <Patrick`> amusingly, I have a powermac which defaults to 1956 if the mobo battery goes flat and it's powered off.
08:56:48  <Patrick`> since that's before 1970, it plays merry hell with linux.
09:01:56  <guru3> lol
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09:22:07  <hj3lmen> BOOOM CRASH!!!
09:22:08  <hj3lmen> pis
09:22:29  <Nigel_> weee, 14 platform station
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09:25:55  <JohnUK89> Morning :)
09:28:43  <Nigel_> it's amazing what optimizing the stations can do to your profits
09:32:18  <MeusH> We already have <DorpsGek>, why not to extend it to show SVN commits?
09:34:17  <JohnUK89> I oughta play some
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10:11:09  <Darkvater> eya Belugas_Gone
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10:22:42  <Nigel_> hmmm, now, thats a good idea
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10:23:14  <Nigel_> Howto Bankrupt Opposing Company, buy exclusive rights for a couple of years so their profits dry up
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10:29:14  <Patrick`> Nigel, that feature was in the *original* game
10:29:21  <Patrick`> it's also not worth it
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10:31:19  <JohnUK89> You may as well let em get a few trains, lose money, buy em up for a quid when they go bankrupt due to their own stupidity and sell the trains and tracks
10:32:58  <Patrick`> buying them now buys the debt
10:33:07  <Patrick`> which is usually more than the cost of selling the infrastructure
10:33:58  <JohnUK89> Not as much loss as the method Nigel put forward :)
10:34:33  <JohnUK89> Buying exclusive transport rights isn't cheap
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10:38:50  <Patrick`> yeah, for the reward
10:38:51  <JohnUK89> Bjarni, morning :)
10:38:58  <MeusH> hello Bjarni
10:39:03  <Bjarni> hi people
10:39:08  <JohnUK89> Patrick`, well, what little reward there is :P
10:39:22  <Patrick`> causing someone infrastructure costs
10:39:32  <Patrick`> I guess if they just built a huge airports and rail nexus
10:39:41  <Patrick`> but for stopping a few bus stops? not worth it
10:40:14  <JohnUK89> Nah, buses can't really do much...not really a threat
10:40:29  <Patrick`> except with the new AI
10:40:34  <Patrick`> which buses EVERYWHERE
10:40:52  <JohnUK89> Yep lol
10:41:45  <Patrick`> and the towns grow so BIG
10:41:52  <JohnUK89> Lol
10:42:43  <Patrick`> it's like, I work away in the top half of the map and hey SHIT the bottom 52x1024 is solid houses
10:42:57  <JohnUK89> Lmao
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10:43:42  <^pacman> lo
10:44:36  <MeusH> hello
10:45:11  <JohnUK89> Just started a game...going to let the AI expand as it wants
10:46:59  <JohnUK89> Bloody ell they expand quick
10:47:58  <JohnUK89> Well, for AI they do :P
10:50:23  <JohnUK89> Lol@the debug messages that it prints onto the terminal
10:50:37  <^pacman> there is something i dont know.. i installed ttd and the latest version of openttd. everything works fine but im wondering what alle these patches are about. do i need them?
10:50:38  <JohnUK89> dbg: [AiNew - BuildStation] Strange but true... station can not be build!
10:51:09  <^pacman> and what is TortoiseSVN
10:52:08  <MeusH> SVN utility for Winblows
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10:52:20  <MeusH> you can download files from a SVN server
10:52:21  <Patrick`> if you lack the ability to google for yourself, you won't be able to use patches. No offense.
10:52:28  <MeusH> you can apply or create patch
10:53:31  <^pacman> thanks for the info Patrick`. but maybe you noticed that there are about 1 million versions of ttd, openttd, patches, add-on and what ever and i just dont know what i need
10:54:09  <JohnUK89> You need Google
10:54:16  <JohnUK89> Nothing more, nothing less
10:54:18  <JohnUK89> Just Google
10:54:51  <Patrick`> ^pacman: you know those guys who seem to know everything?
10:54:53  <Bjarni> JohnUK89: now I hope you learned your lesson and will behave yourself in the future
10:54:58  <Patrick`> there are 2 things that separate you from them.
10:55:00  <JohnUK89> Bjarni?
10:55:04  <Patrick`> raw intelligence and the ability to use google.
10:55:11  <Patrick`> the former, we can't fix. the latter we can.
10:55:21  <Patrick`> the best help I can give you is the tools to find things out for yourself
10:55:25  <Bjarni> JohnUK89: if you don't, then I will let the lightning hit your house next time
10:55:37  <JohnUK89> Bjarni: you bugger :P
10:56:18  <Bjarni> as you can see, I made thunder around your house as a warning
10:56:20  <^pacman> really nice behaviour to new users Patrick`
10:56:34  <JohnUK89> As I DID's stopped :)
10:56:41  <Patrick`> ^pacman: I'm actually not doing this to offend you.
10:56:47  <Patrick`> it's the unpleasant truth.
10:56:53  <Patrick`> people don't pay me to pull punches.
10:57:32  <Bjarni> <JohnUK89>	As I DID's stopped :) <-- yeah, I figured you got the message by now
10:57:59  <JohnUK89> Bjarni: it knocked the power out 5 times!
10:58:08  <Bjarni> serves you right
10:58:23  <JohnUK89> Dunno what I did to deserve it...
10:58:27  <^pacman> well im new to this game and i know how google works. its just that there are so many things to download for this game and i dont know whats compatible to each other. but it seems you cant help me here so i just stop asking
10:59:09  <Patrick`> oh, it's all on the forums
10:59:14  <Bjarni> <JohnUK89>	Dunno what I did to deserve it... <-- you failed to call yourself lolman, even though I told you to do so
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10:59:22  <JohnUK89> :-D
10:59:22  <Patrick`> and no, I don't know about your specific situation
10:59:35  <Patrick`> but I'm telling you what I'd do in your place in order to find out
10:59:44  <Patrick`> rather than doing it and then telling you the answer
11:00:02  *** JohnUK89 is now known as lolman
11:00:48  <^pacman> what i figured out already is that ttdpatch und openttd seem not to be compatible to each other
11:01:05  <lolman> ^pacman, that's because they are two seperate entities
11:01:33  <lolman> ttdpatch uses the original TTD executable, OpenTTD only uses the data files
11:02:01  <^pacman> yes, and i decided to install openttd. so now it seems there are some patches available for openttd, like add-ons. right?
11:02:53  <lolman> ^pacman, well there's stuff like the MiniIN, which is a build of OpenTTD with more stuff in
11:03:03  <lolman> stuff being features and patches
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11:03:35  <lolman> Oh and Bjarni oh great one, I have learned from my past transgressions
11:05:39  <^pacman> will features of miniIN be included in openttd in future versions?
11:06:07  <lolman> ^pacman, that depends on whether the developers want to include them, and whether they are bug-free
11:06:33  <^pacman> so miniIN is something like a testing place
11:06:40  <lolman> Yes
11:06:48  <Patrick`> and also just for fun
11:07:12  <lolman> MiniIN rocks :-D
11:08:04  <^pacman> TGP is not included in 0.4.8. right?
11:08:11  *** jneves [] has joined #openttd
11:08:31  <lolman> ^pacman, that is correct, but it is ready for merge (I think)
11:09:18  <lolman> Bjarni, is TGP ready for merge?
11:09:36  <Bjarni> I think so
11:09:42  <Bjarni> Darkvater: do you agree?
11:09:47  <^pacman> seems most of openttd users use linux
11:09:52  <Bjarni> did you look at it like you said you would?
11:09:54  <Bjarni> :p
11:10:10  <Patrick`> ^pacman: yeah, compiling from source on windows is more problematic
11:10:16  <Patrick`> I used to do it a lot though
11:10:32  <lolman> problematic? Near on impossible more like..
11:10:40  <Patrick`> cygwin always worked fine for me
11:10:43  <Patrick`> apart from the PNG thing
11:10:48  <Patrick`> and my truly truly bizzare SDL bug
11:10:54  <lolman> Lol
11:11:14  <Patrick`> (where you put the window size to a multiple of some number, open the map, switch to industry colour view, and drag it off the bottom-*left*)
11:11:15  <lolman> I oughta get a copy of only other copy was on Winblows
11:11:26  <Patrick`> BAM
11:11:28  <Patrick`> instant crash
11:11:32  <Patrick`> or maybe it was bottom right
11:11:39  <Patrick`> anyway, it only happens on cygwin ...
11:11:48  <^pacman> i guess a windows version of TGP will take a bit longer until it can be downloaded
11:12:15  <lolman> ^pacman, there should be nightly builds of
11:12:58  <^pacman> err yes there is test-release available, works fine imho. but it would blow the newest version of openttd i guess
11:13:33  <lolman> Ah that reminds me...need to install subversion
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11:14:51  <MeusH> !seen JohnUK89
11:14:52  <DorpsGek> MeusH, JohnUK89 (~john@ was last seen changing his/her nick to lolman on #openttd 14 minutes ago (18.08. 11:00). lolman is still there.
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11:15:08  <MeusH> GOT YOU!
11:15:15  <lolman> Bjarni made me!
11:15:24  <MeusH> no he didn't
11:15:31  <MeusH> Bjarni is a coder not a mofo
11:15:35  <MeusH> I hope
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11:15:40  <Patrick`> sing us a song, you're the piano man!
11:15:45  <lolman> He made me change nick lol
11:15:51  * Patrick` plays billy joel and cries into his scotch
11:16:24  <MeusH> did he threaten you?
11:16:34  <lolman> Yes, he sent lightening over
11:16:44  <lolman> It knocked the power out 5 times
11:18:02  <Bjarni> here is the good part. I had to have done it, otherwise I would not be able to tell about the local weather at lolman's from where I am (overseas)
11:18:41  <lolman> Bjarni > God :P
11:18:54  <MeusH> Bjarni > SROTU
11:19:00  <OwenS> lolman, your wrong. Bjarni == God :P
11:19:11  <lolman> OwenS hehe
11:19:21  <MeusH> Bjarni > /dev/urandom
11:19:40  <Bjarni> random???
11:19:52  <lolman> cat /dev/urandom > Bjarni
11:19:58  <lolman> :-D
11:20:04  <MeusH> cat /dev/null > Bjarni :P
11:20:17  <MeusH> Bjarni, you're full of null now
11:20:21  <OwenS> MeusH: /dev/null produces nothing, it's only writable
11:20:22  <Bjarni> blasphemy
11:20:22  <MeusH> you've been nullified!
11:20:37  <MeusH> OwenS: Who cares, it's null :)  (thanks)
11:20:45  <Bjarni> hmm
11:20:50  <OwenS> void* pB = mmap("/dev/Bjarni");
11:20:52  <OwenS> Hmm
11:21:00  <Bjarni> where to find thunder to move towards MeusH....
11:21:11  <MeusH> on the sky! on the sky!
11:21:18  * MeusH goes under his desk
11:21:27  <OwenS> for(int i = 0; i < sob; i++) { ++pB = 0; }
11:21:43  <Bjarni> dammit, no thunder at all near Poland
11:21:51  <Bjarni> this might take a while then
11:21:54  *** jneves [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
11:22:01  <MeusH> It's over 30deg C
11:22:03  <MeusH> it's blazing
11:22:07  <MeusH> send a rain over here
11:22:10  <MeusH> pleease!
11:22:31  <Bjarni> no way
11:22:36  <OwenS> I think he should send a heatwave
11:22:38  <lolman> MeusH, it's FREEZING over here, thanks to Bjarni
11:22:39  <Bjarni> I want to keep the rain here
11:22:53  <OwenS> Hmm
11:22:57  <Bjarni> we got what we usually get in 3 months in just 2 weeks
11:23:48  *** Captain_Sifff [] has joined #openttd
11:24:12  <OwenS> void* pW = mmap("/dev/weather");
11:24:12  <OwenS> Weather* pMHW = WeatherManager::find("MeusH", pW);
11:24:12  <OwenS> pMHW->setWeatherType(WT_SUN);
11:24:12  <OwenS> pMHW->setHeat(100, DEG_CELCIUS);
11:24:12  <OwenS> pMHW->commit();
11:24:30  <lolman> Bjarni, the first I knew of the lightening was when my computer turned off
11:24:52  <MeusH> OwenS, do you know what have you done?
11:25:05  <OwenS> Yes, your blood should be boiling right about now
11:25:10  <lolman> OwenS, you just made poland BOIL!
11:25:12  <MeusH> how do you know?
11:25:17  <Bjarni> hmm, it appears that they didn't put a certain pic online. They showed it in the news yesterday
11:25:20  <OwenS> 100 Deg celcius?
11:25:22  <MeusH> I don't want to turn into a big bubble!
11:25:23  <MeusH> oh no
11:25:25  <Bjarni> some guy took his boat and sailed down the road
11:25:35  <lolman> Bjarni, lmao
11:25:36  *** Ammler [] has joined #openttd
11:25:38  <MeusH> :D
11:26:14  <Captain_Sifff> Hi! I've got a question regarding the OTTD- Code: Is GetSlopeZ supposed to take negative y-values ?
11:26:29  <Bjarni> <-- here it is
11:26:42  *** Ammler [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:26:46  <Bjarni> not a huge one though, but still...
11:26:49  <OwenS> pMHW->setWeatherType(WT_HAIL);
11:26:49  <OwenS> pMHW->setAmmout(1000, WEIGHT_TONNES, TIME_SECCOND, AREA_SQMETER);
11:26:49  <OwenS> pMHW->setHeat(-50, DEG_CELCIUS);
11:26:49  <OwenS> pMHW->commit();
11:27:03  <Bjarni> now that was a rainy day
11:27:11  <Rubidium> Captain_Sifff: no, it isn't and also not outside of the map on the other side
11:27:29  * MeusH dies
11:27:31  * MeusH burns
11:27:35  * MeusH cries
11:27:37  * MeusH stuff
11:27:40  * MeusH urandom
11:27:43  * Bjarni sends MeusH downstairs
11:27:45  <lolman> burns? It's -50!
11:27:46  <OwenS> Burns? Thats dropping 1000 tonnes of ice per seccond per sqmeter
11:28:01  <Bjarni> well, I did send him to hell after all
11:28:03  <MeusH> OwenS: it hasn't fallen yet
11:28:07  <Captain_Sifff> well I've got a crash there with y = -16 ...
11:28:08  <OwenS> Oh
11:28:23  <MeusH> It will fall down and crash on the ground in 10 seconds
11:28:30  <OwenS> pMHW->setLightning(LIGHTNING_VIOLENT);
11:28:30  <OwenS> pMHW->commit();
11:28:31  <MeusH> but Bjarni sent be downstairs
11:28:35  <MeusH> and I'm safe
11:28:36  <MeusH> hahaha
11:28:37  <Rubidium> which version and which branch
11:28:44  <MeusH> I'm safe from lighting and ice
11:28:50  <Bjarni> <MeusH>	and I'm safe <-- in hell?
11:28:58  <MeusH> downstairs
11:29:02  <OwenS> Even when you get a 100 tonne ice cube? :P
11:29:09  <Bjarni> <-- you know, it's bad when sewers work like this
11:29:14  <OwenS> I'm suprised it doesn't knock down your house
11:29:40  <MeusH> I don't care, I'm dead
11:29:44  *** MeusH is now known as MeusH[dead]
11:29:45  <Captain_Sifff> OTTD-MiniIN, rev. from yesterday, with UK - Set + PlaneSet(1.5.2?) + newhouses
11:30:13  <Captain_Sifff> you need a backtrace ?
11:30:27  <Rubidium> known bug, already fixed in trunk, but MiniIN has not been synced since then
11:31:30  <Captain_Sifff> you know the patch-number ?
11:32:45  <Rubidium> there are two... 5841 and 5883
11:32:59  <Captain_Sifff> ah yes, I've found them
11:33:16  <Rubidium> workaround is disabling disasters and not building airports near the edge of the map
11:33:56  <Captain_Sifff> OK, I'll try to apply these patches locally...
11:34:03  <Captain_Sifff> thanks a lot!
11:36:03  *** Maedhros [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
11:38:47  <Captain_Sifff> Don't know, if I'm telling anything new: Changeset5841 applies cleanly against MiniIN , 5883 with an offset of 11 lines
11:40:57  *** Maedhros [] has joined #openttd
11:46:16  *** MeusH_ [] has joined #openttd
11:48:08  <lolman> Hmm where does Subversion put stuff by default?
11:48:22  <lolman> Aha ignore that :P
11:49:03  <lolman> I should stop asking stuff and look lol
11:49:35  * Bjarni gives lolman a 10 sec penalty for asking a stupid question
11:50:17  <lolman> There, penalty over
11:50:21  <lolman> :-D
11:50:25  * lolman needs food, brb
11:52:48  *** MeusH[dead] [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:53:28  *** Alltaken [] has joined #openttd
11:53:53  <lolman> Right, I'm back :P
11:54:19  <Alltaken> so am i
11:54:22  <Alltaken> i am back
11:54:36  <Alltaken> everyone know that i am back, otherwise you might miss me from being back
11:54:42  *** lolman is now known as back
11:54:48  <Alltaken> damn
11:54:50  <back> No you're not, I am :-D
11:54:52  <Alltaken> ok i am not back
11:54:56  *** back is now known as lolman
11:55:51  *** MeusH_ is now known as MeusH
11:55:54  <MeusH> hey Alltaken
11:56:01  *** miika [] has quit [Quit: miika]
11:56:50  <Alltaken> hey MeusH
11:57:06  <MeusH> Alltaken: how about Crazy Vaclav's models?
11:57:17  <MeusH> isl he going to give them to us?
11:57:21  <Alltaken> he did the planes?
11:57:34  <Alltaken> i dunno.... haven't talked to him... anyone know his email addy?
11:57:37  <MeusH> planes, refinery, chopters
11:58:02  *** mikl [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:58:21  <Alltaken> hmmm
11:58:29  <Alltaken> well what is the rumour on the street
11:58:39  <Alltaken> lets get a website set up urgently for all file uploads to then
11:59:24  * Bjarni gives lolman a 10 sec penalty for using a false name
11:59:31  <Alltaken> we kind of need one that keeps track of file versions too though
11:59:55  * lolman slaps Bjarni
12:00:01  <OwenS> Bjarni: I'd suggest you !kick lolman for that
12:00:07  *** lolman was kicked from #openttd by Bjarni [serves you right]
12:00:19  *** lolman [~john@] has joined #openttd
12:00:27  <lolman> :)
12:00:28  <MeusH> Alltaken,
12:00:32  <MeusH> there is no e-mail addy
12:00:52  <MeusH> but it is probable that PMs sent to him are being forwarded and sent on his e-mail
12:00:54  <OwenS> PM him, it will end up in his inbox
12:01:02  * lolman slaps lolman for being so stupid
12:01:31  <OwenS> lolman: More appropriate to say would be !kick lolman ;)
12:01:36  * Bjarni gives lolman a 10 sec penalty for violence in the channel
12:01:42  <lolman> OwenS: ;-)
12:01:51  <lolman> !kick OwenS
12:01:55  <lolman> :-p
12:01:55  * Bjarni gives lolman a 10 sec penalty for speaking in penalty time
12:01:57  <OwenS> Which suspiciously reminds me of a QDB quote
12:01:58  <MeusH> Bjarni: are you sure lolman can add these numbers?
12:02:02  <Bjarni> no
12:02:08  <MeusH> lolo
12:02:15  <lolman> Yes I can
12:02:18  <lolman> :)
12:02:25  * Bjarni gives lolman a 10 sec penalty for speaking in penalty time
12:02:33  <MeusH> lolman, how are you?
12:02:40  <Bjarni> you don't have to add those numbers
12:02:44  <Bjarni> you multiply them
12:03:08  * lolman says "stuff it"
12:03:49  <lolman> Ooh, no penalty...
12:03:51  <Nigel_> surely the solution is, die, then by the time you reincarnate you will be out of penalty time?
12:04:45  * Bjarni gives lolman a 10 sec penalty for speaking in penalty time
12:04:54  <lolman> You bugger
12:04:56  * Bjarni gives lolman a 10 sec penalty for speaking in penalty time
12:05:03  <lolman> o_0
12:05:07  * Bjarni gives lolman a 10 sec penalty for speaking in penalty time
12:05:14  <OwenS> !kick lolman
12:05:27  <OwenS> It's for the best :P
12:05:29  <lolman> !ban OwenS
12:05:48  * Bjarni sets mode +b lolman
12:05:55  <Bjarni> I decide who to ban
12:05:56  <OwenS> rofl
12:06:00  <lolman> lmao good try at fooling me :)
12:06:23  *** mode/#openttd [+b *!*john@149.254.200.*] by Bjarni
12:06:39  *** mode/#openttd [-b lolman!*@*] by Bjarni
12:06:44  <Bjarni> hmm
12:06:49  <Bjarni> how to unban...
12:07:03  *** mode/#openttd [-b *!*john@149.254.200.*] by Bjarni
12:07:06  <lolman> You sod :P
12:07:18  *** Zavior [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
12:07:18  *** Zaviori [] has joined #openttd
12:07:37  <lolman> You really don't like me do you?
12:07:47  <OwenS> !stats
12:07:47  <DorpsGek>
12:07:52  <OwenS> !coke
12:07:58  *** Bjarni was kicked from #openttd by Darkvater [stop manipulation the stats!]
12:07:58  *** Bjarni [] has joined #openttd
12:08:01  *** mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ
12:08:04  <Bjarni> if I really didn't like you, I would either not unban you or ignore you
12:08:07  <Bjarni> hi Darkvater
12:08:17  <lolman> Bjarni, phew :P
12:08:32  <Bjarni> Darkvater: did you look at TGP?
12:08:42  <Darkvater> not et
12:09:02  <Bjarni> today is the day where TrueLight returns to merge
12:09:13  <Bjarni> unless something turns up
12:09:39  <OwenS> Sacro  774116284355  yesterday  "especially if its a welsh woman" What was he saying? :o
12:09:44  *** netgert [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
12:09:49  *** netgert [] has joined #openttd
12:09:53  *** Sacro [~ben@] has joined #openttd
12:09:57  <MeusH> hey Sacro
12:10:03  <OwenS> Speak of the devil
12:10:07  <Bjarni> speaking of the devil
12:10:28  * OwenS slaps Bjarni - Thats my line! :P
12:10:40  <Bjarni> no
12:10:47  <Sacro> ~logs
12:10:53  <SpComb> Logs:
12:10:53  <Sacro> !logs
12:10:58  <MeusH> logz
12:10:58  <Bjarni> they got different MD5 values, so they aren't the same line
12:11:05  <OwenS> How can you confuse ~ and !? Theyre at oposite sides of the  keyboard
12:11:20  <Bjarni> OwenS: it's Sacro... don't ask and don't think about it
12:11:31  <OwenS> Aha, true, it's for the best
12:11:34  <Bjarni> it will only hurt your head and never reach any logic conclusion
12:11:45  <Rubidium> OwenS: maybe on your keyboard, but on mine they are neighboring keys...
12:11:51  <Sacro> OwenS: different channels have different bots
12:11:54  <Bjarni> hopefully you will not find an answer, that you find logically
12:11:56  <Darkvater> we should ban all those weird keyboards
12:12:00  <Darkvater> !help
12:12:07  <OwenS> !commands
12:12:08  <Darkvater> !help dorpsgek
12:12:11  <OwenS> I beleive
12:12:13  <MeusH> they would really think about refitting things
12:12:16  <OwenS> !list
12:12:16  <Darkvater> !godverdomme help jij bitch!
12:12:22  <Sacro> < OwenS> Sacro  774116284355  yesterday  "especially if its a welsh woman" What was he saying? :o <- you cant call an old lady Mis Jones
12:12:24  <MeusH> OpenTTD is something which likes linux
12:12:34  <Sacro> !spam
12:12:42  <Bjarni> speaking of bots in here
12:12:42  <MeusH> I really think there would be more spam without operations
12:12:56  <Bjarni> but I guess most of you remember this one xD
12:12:58  <Bjarni> specially Sacro
12:13:39  <Bjarni> Sacro: ok, then we call an old lady Janet Jones
12:13:49  <Bjarni> or even Born_Acorn
12:14:15  <Sacro> my hands smell of dough :s
12:14:23  <Bjarni> ...
12:14:37  <MeusH> Cash is soo cool
12:14:40  <Sacro> interview for a bakery job
12:14:50  <MeusH> I think cash would be cooler if its smell was more intense
12:15:05  * Bjarni sends Sacro away from the playfield to hit the showers
12:15:14  <Zaviori> !kick harrison ford
12:15:31  <Bjarni> ---	harrison :No such nick/channel
12:15:52  <MeusH> !kick #openttd
12:15:55  <Bjarni> <MeusH>	I think cash would be cooler if its smell was more intense <-- tell that to Scrooge McDuck
12:16:02  <Sacro> !kick MeusH
12:16:08  *** Guest56 [] has joined #openttd
12:16:08  <MeusH> !whois Scrooge McDuck
12:16:08  <Zaviori> !part #openttd suckers
12:16:14  <Zaviori> :'(
12:16:16  *** MeusH [] has left #openttd [suckers]
12:16:19  <Sacro> :o
12:16:26  *** MeusH [] has joined #openttd
12:16:27  *** MeusH was kicked from #openttd by Bjarni [channel hater]
12:16:32  *** MeusH [] has joined #openttd
12:16:34  <MeusH> lol
12:16:40  <SpComb> Logs:
12:16:40  <MeusH> !logs
12:17:44  <MeusH> Darkvater: would you have some time to take a look at ?
12:17:58  <Darkvater> not really while I'm at work
12:18:20  <Bjarni> when kicking the last time, I hit tab to complete the kick command (I usually don't) and it came up with if I wanted to KICK or KICKBAN
12:18:29  <MeusH> okay, I'll talk to you later :)
12:19:09  *** Zaviori [] has quit [Quit: ( :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: )]
12:21:08  <Tron_> +STR_MEASURE_AREA                                                :{BLACK}Area: {BLACK}{NUM} {BLACK}x {BLACK}{NUM}
12:21:15  <Tron_> setting the colour once is enough
12:21:40  *** Zavior [] has joined #openttd
12:21:48  *** BJH2 [] has joined #openttd
12:23:42  *** Brianetta [] has joined #openttd
12:23:48  *** Gonozal_VIII [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:24:21  *** MeusH [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
12:24:27  *** Guest56 is now known as Gonozal_VIII
12:24:44  <Bjarni> I guess he didn't like that feedback :D
12:24:49  *** MeusH [] has joined #openttd
12:25:05  * Bjarni slaps MeusH
12:25:10  <Bjarni> stay here when spoken to
12:25:24  <MeusH> sorry, my net went off
12:25:26  <SpComb> Logs:
12:25:26  <MeusH> !logs
12:26:10  *** ThePizzaKing [] has quit [Quit: -]
12:26:26  <MeusH> Tron: thanks for pointing it, now the patch will be cleaner :)
12:26:59  *** ThePizzaKing [] has joined #openttd
12:27:13  <Sacro> Tron_: its just making sure
12:27:27  <OwenS> OMG
12:27:32  <Sacro> WTF
12:27:32  <Darkvater> hehe making sure ;p
12:27:36  <OwenS> HyperTransport's specifications are free
12:27:41  <OwenS> That makes a nice change
12:27:48  <Patrick`> Pfft, that's nothing
12:27:52  <Sacro> Darkvater: we need a {STILLBLACK}
12:27:59  <Patrick`> sun opensourced the verilog for the new core ages ago
12:28:08  <Patrick`> or whatever the core is described in
12:28:11  <hylje> :o
12:28:16  <OwenS> Patrick`: I know. Now I need a big enough FPGA :P
12:28:16  <Patrick`> it's ... uh, kind of pointless
12:28:16  *** bruce89 [] has joined #openttd
12:28:25  <Patrick`> since not every OSS programmer has a 65nm fab to hand
12:28:41  * Sacro sends Patrick` a big box of NAND chips
12:28:49  <OwenS> You can buy a FPGA though
12:28:51  <Patrick`> mm, 100 million transistors
12:28:59  <OwenS> XD
12:29:03  <hylje> Patrick`: you can produce said chips in a third party fab
12:30:42  <Patrick`> hylje: yeah, but the point is it's a useless move because nobody will use it that isn't a corporation in direct competition with sun
12:31:13  <OwenS> Patrick`: If I got a big enough FPGA I would like to produce a SOC version of it :P
12:31:52  <Patrick`> yeah, but an FPGA that size would be ... impressive
12:31:53  *** Nickman [] has joined #openttd
12:31:55  <Patrick`> and also slow
12:32:05  <OwenS> Patrick`: Prototyping, prototyping
12:32:16  <lolman> And would produce a LOT of heat
12:32:26  <OwenS> The FPGA might
12:32:31  <OwenS> But the CPU doesn't
12:32:45  <Bjarni> bool test = true; if (!test) test = true;
12:32:48  <Bjarni> just making sure
12:32:51  <lolman> You were on about the FPGA :P
12:33:17  <Bjarni> FPGAs rock
12:33:26  <OwenS> I want one :(
12:33:36  <OwenS> Unfortionately, theyre majorly expensive
12:33:53  <Bjarni> hmm
12:33:56  <Bjarni> maybe not
12:34:02  <OwenS> And once youve laid out your £250 for the FPGA, you need to spend £500 on the programming kit
12:34:18  <Bjarni> Xilinx sells a test set to students at a reduced price
12:34:50  <lolman> OwenS, when I win the lottery I'll get you the set ;-)
12:34:54  <Bjarni> it's nowhere near state of the art hardware, but they are decent and you can do a lot of stuff with them
12:35:01  <OwenS> Hmm... URL?
12:35:03  <lolman> When I win the jackpot, that is
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12:36:00  <Darkvater> Bjarni: that is suboptimal and you still do not know if test is true
12:36:19  <Darkvater> bool test = true; do {if (!test) test = true;} while(1);
12:36:27  <Darkvater> there, that should sort that nasty true out
12:36:48  <Bjarni> yeah
12:36:53  <OwenS> while(!test == true) !test; :P
12:37:17  <Bjarni> <OwenS>	Hmm... URL? <-- of cause now that I mentioned it, I can't find it anymore :p
12:37:23  <Darkvater> how does that set test to true OwenS ?
12:37:24  <OwenS> XP
12:37:33  <OwenS> Oh, hmm
12:37:59  <OwenS> while(!(test = true));
12:38:12  <Darkvater> while we're at it, why do we even test for trueness since we don't trust it anyways?
12:38:22  <Darkvater> for(;;) test = true;
12:38:41  <hylje> what the f, a wtf competition? wtf?
12:38:50  <OwenS> I think Bjarnis been reading a DailyWTF
12:39:20  <Bjarni> OwenS:
12:39:32  <Bjarni> I don't think that is what I saw earlier, but this one looks cheap as well
12:39:47  <OwenS> :( CPLD
12:39:55  <Patrick`> haha
12:40:00  <Patrick`> test = true
12:40:27  *** Sacro [~ben@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:40:27  <MeusH> what a strange link
12:40:33  <OwenS> It's amazing what you can do with while in c
12:40:45  <OwenS> while(++a = ++b) for strcpy :P
12:40:55  <OwenS> IIRC
12:41:21  <Patrick`> yep
12:41:34  <Bjarni> <-- spartan-3E starter kit
12:42:01  <Bjarni> but I did see a student discount or something
12:42:36  <Bjarni> maybe you should write an email or call them if you really want one and you are studying something where it's relevant to learn how to use their product
12:42:58  <MeusH> like mumificating corpses and removing teeth?
12:43:36  <Bjarni> remember, they want to make money and they don't really do that on private people. They mainly care about companies, so if you learn how to use their stuff and you later tell your boss "I tried a Xilinx board and it worked well", then he might buy a new one to you or maybe more than one
12:43:46  *** Sacro [~ben@] has joined #openttd
12:43:58  <Bjarni> Sacro is not in that target group though
12:44:00  <lolman> Oh noes, the devil returns
12:45:01  <MeusH> wb Sacro
12:45:12  <MeusH> you might switch to linux
12:45:16  <MeusH> bad rumors here
12:45:21  <MeusH> we know everything about you
12:45:34  *** MeusH is now known as MeusH[brb]
12:45:49  <hylje> the question is not why to switch to mac/linux, it's why not
12:46:20  <bruce89> depends what you want really
12:46:31  <lolman> My reason why not to was lack of SATA and Bluetooth support...but now that's there it's all I use
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12:47:02  <hylje> bruce89: unless you need obscure windows apps, its linux all the way
12:47:07  <bruce89> indeed
12:47:23  <SpComb> Logs:
12:47:23  <Sacro> !logs
12:47:29  <Sacro> what are you talkig about me for?
12:47:35  <hylje> hardware support is very good nowadays
12:47:57  <hylje> not as easy as on windows though, but with little RTFM it can be done
12:48:33  <hylje> i could use some driver helper software, liek display driver upgrades
12:48:45  <hylje> so if the new driver breaks hard, it could automagically recover
12:49:19  <bruce89> bluetooth works doesn't it?
12:50:05  <Darkvater> I want VS2005 on linux
12:50:10  <lolman> bruce89: yes, I'm connected via it
12:50:23  <lolman> Next iffy spot for me will be Wifi when I move
12:50:26  <Darkvater> or at least the .NET framework support in wine to get it installed and running
12:50:32  <hylje> mono does .NET
12:50:36  <bruce89> MonoDevlop
12:50:38  <hylje> as natively as in windows
12:50:53  <hylje> but not fully yet, and doesnt support windows.forms
12:50:56  <hylje> (afaik)
12:51:20  <bruce89> it partially does
12:51:37  <Darkvater> don't thik that'll allow me to install the software
12:51:47  <lolman> Yay I've just got swapping between Compiz and Metacity working :_D
12:51:48  <lolman> :-D*
12:51:54  <bruce89> I rather like the way if you search for mono in Google, it comes up with diseases
12:51:58  <hylje> :>
12:52:09  <hylje> monohydrogendioxide
12:52:16  <bruce89> watter
12:52:31  <bruce89> very dangerous chemical that
12:52:51  <Sacro> damn right it is
12:53:46  <lolman> Water has killed more people than wars
12:54:06  <bruce89> especially lack of it or dirty stuff
12:54:12  <lolman> Yes
12:54:39  <bruce89> metacity has compositing features now as well
12:54:52  <hylje> nice change of topic
12:55:06  <bruce89> yes
12:55:26  <OwenS> monohydrogendioxide? That would be HO2
12:55:28  <bruce89> it was in response to lolman above
12:55:45  <Patrick`> nice way to screw up a gag there, hylje
12:55:50  <Sacro> true
12:55:57  <lolman> bruce89: I prefer compiz + cgwd
12:56:01  <Sacro> its dihyrdogenoxide thats the problem
12:56:22  <bruce89> yes, it does have more things, but what is cgwd
12:56:25  <hylje> yeh i cant think straight at times ;)
12:56:34  <lolman> bruce89, it adds theming
12:56:40  <bruce89> ah
12:57:46  <OwenS> Sacro: Dihydrogenmonoxide you mean :P
12:58:14  <Sacro> H202 is bad too
12:58:28  <bruce89> Hydrogen Peroxide
12:58:45  <OwenS> Completely Different
12:59:10  <Sacro> i was after heavy water
12:59:23  <bruce89> that's just H2O
12:59:37  <hylje> with heavy hydrogen
12:59:39  <bruce89> but, with the hydrogen being 2AMU or 3AMU
13:00:21  <lolman> Heavy hydrogen is used in artificial fusion :)
13:01:13  <OwenS> Yes, Deutrinum, also known as Heavy Water
13:01:24  *** Sacro_ [~ben@] has joined #openttd
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13:02:32  <lolman> OwenS, heavy water is simply water with an isotope of hydrogen...deutrium is the isotope that is most commonly IN the heavy water
13:02:58  <bruce89> or tritium
13:03:07  <lolman> bruce89, yes, I was about to say that
13:03:12  <lolman> But you beat me to it
13:03:18  *** Belugas_Gone is now known as Belugas
13:03:20  <bruce89> oh wl
13:03:25  <lolman> Ello Belugas
13:03:44  <hylje> i want water which is solely made out of two tritium and a oxygen
13:04:02  <bruce89> ask iran then
13:04:16  <lolman> I'm sure the nazis started making heavy water during WW2...
13:04:22  <bruce89> in norway
13:04:38  <Patrick`> T2O, eh?
13:04:40  <Patrick`> expensive stuff
13:04:55  <lolman> Patrick`, you can say that again
13:04:57  <Belugas> hello all
13:04:57  <lolman> :)
13:06:25  <Belugas> Darkvater : ping
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13:09:42  <Darkvater> pong
13:10:40  <Belugas> about XTDwidget and TGP, don't wait for XTD to merge TGP.
13:11:22  <Belugas> XTD will not be ready in time.  I expect at least 2 more weeks before finalizing it
13:11:29  <Darkvater> was not my intention
13:11:41  <Belugas> ok, good then :)
13:12:05  <Belugas> i'll keep on torturing my brain quietly ;)
13:12:23  <Sacro> Darkvater: tgp mergy!
13:13:32  <Darkvater> :)
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13:17:34  <Captain_Sifff> I just ran vagrind against openttd. It found some memory leaks. So my question is: Is It intentional, that there is no counterpart to InitializeNPF, that deallocates all memory that got assigned during initialization ?(The Hash-fields in AyStar notably)
13:19:22  <Darkvater> ask blathijs that
13:19:24  <OwenS> Hmm, out of curiosity, do you call SDL_Quit()?
13:19:48  <Darkvater> valgrind has some valid memleaks eg some strdup which isn't freed, but some of its reports is just bogus
13:19:57  <OwenS> Yes
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13:20:21  <OwenS> However, do you call SDL_Quit?
13:20:56  *** MeusH[brb] is now known as MeusH
13:21:08  <OwenS> ==4571== Source and destination overlap in memcpy(0xBE9E0678, 0xBE9E0680, 1016)
13:21:08  <OwenS> ==4571==    at 0x4006983: memcpy (mac_replace_strmem.c:394)
13:21:08  <OwenS> ==4571==    by 0x48390151: (within /lib/
13:21:08  <OwenS> ==4571==    by 0x483904CE: snd_pcm_direct_server_create (in /lib/
13:21:08  <OwenS> ==4571==    by 0x48388B11: snd_pcm_dmix_open (in /lib/
13:21:09  <OwenS> ==4571==    by 0x483894C8: _snd_pcm_dmix_open (in /lib/
13:21:09  <OwenS> ==4571==    by 0x48357B34: (within /lib/
13:21:11  <OwenS> ==4571==    by 0x483581B5: (within /lib/
13:21:11  <OwenS> ==4571==    by 0x4835825A: snd_pcm_open_slave (in /lib/
13:21:13  <OwenS> ==4571==    by 0x48392CB8: _snd_pcm_softvol_open (in /lib/
13:21:13  <OwenS> ==4571==    by 0x48357B34: (within /lib/
13:21:15  <OwenS> ==4571==    by 0x48358282: snd_pcm_open_slave (in /lib/
13:21:15  <OwenS> ==4571==    by 0x48372C3B: _snd_pcm_plug_open (in /lib/
13:21:17  <OwenS> That ones wierd
13:21:23  <Sacro> !kick OwenS
13:21:45  <OwenS> I wonder if SDL passes those pointers
13:22:06  <stillunknown> why are you not kicked for flood?
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13:22:40  <Sacro> stillunknown: not sure... Bjarni is slow
13:23:09  <Darkvater> OwenS: called in SdlClose and SdlAbort
13:23:17  <OwenS> OK
13:23:49  <OwenS> So, for some strange reason, either SDL doesn't call XCloseDisplay or XCloseDisplay doesn't clean up after XOpenDisplay
13:24:33  <MeusH> Add debug println in XCloseDisplay to make sure XCloseDisplay is being called
13:24:43  <Alltaken> yo yo, orudge you know of any software to do blender files on the server that will also manage version numbers?
13:24:49  <OwenS> XCloseDisplay is part of
13:24:51  <Captain_Sifff> I mean traces like this:
13:24:59  <Captain_Sifff> ==30304== 17,184 (800 direct, 16,384 indirect) bytes in 2 blocks are definitely lost in loss record 86 of 100
13:25:00  <Captain_Sifff> ==30304==    at 0x402078A: calloc (in /usr/lib/valgrind/x86-linux/
13:25:00  <Captain_Sifff> ==30304==    by 0x80BD20B: init_BinaryHeap (queue.c:430)
13:25:00  <Captain_Sifff> ==30304==    by 0x806E8B8: init_AyStar (aystar.c:296)==30304== 17,184 (800 direct, 16,384 indirect) bytes in 2 blocks are definitely lost in loss record 86 of 100
13:25:00  <Captain_Sifff> ==30304==    at 0x402078A: calloc (in /usr/lib/valgrind/x86-linux/
13:25:01  <Captain_Sifff> ==30304==    by 0x80BD20B: init_BinaryHeap (queue.c:430)
13:25:01  <Captain_Sifff> ==30304==    by 0x806E8B8: init_AyStar (aystar.c:296)
13:25:03  <Captain_Sifff> ==30304==    by 0x80ADDE6: InitializeNPF (npf.c:1086)
13:25:03  <Captain_Sifff> ==30304==    by 0x8093B39: InitializeGame (misc.c:171)
13:25:05  <Captain_Sifff>
13:25:05  <Captain_Sifff> ==30304==    by 0x80ADDE6: InitializeNPF (npf.c:1086)
13:25:07  <Captain_Sifff> ==30304==    by 0x8093B39: InitializeGame (misc.c:171)
13:25:15  <Captain_Sifff> oops, a bit much...
13:25:16  <Patrick`> yep, mastery of the pastebin there
13:25:26  <ln-> kick requested
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13:25:50  <Darkvater> can you guys not spam the channel?
13:26:18  <Alltaken> else we will haxxor you
13:26:24  <Darkvater> Captain_Sifff: I know, looked at it several times, but blathijs has failed me with an answer
13:26:27  *** Tron_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:26:28  <Darkvater> !seen blathijs
13:26:29  <DorpsGek> Darkvater, if you can't see blathijs here right now, you probably need new glasses. ^_^
13:26:29  <OwenS> Hmm, Xilinx uses a Google Search Appliance
13:26:37  *** Alltaken [] has quit [Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.74 [Firefox]]
13:27:19  <Bjarni> <Sacro>	stillunknown: not sure... Bjarni is slow <-- no, it's called away
13:27:53  <Bjarni> there is a big difference
13:28:23  <Captain_Sifff> ok, just wanted to make sure the problem is known... There are also some leaks in YAPF(according to valgrind) but I can't tell there if it's really a leak...
13:30:09  <Captain_Sifff> Bye and Good Luck!
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13:33:46  <Sacro> hehehhee
13:35:22  <GoneWack1> haha
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13:53:16  <Bjarni> <-- go figure
13:53:54  <Bjarni> the same is the case with text-to-speech. The one MS made fails on all the app names for OSX and fails on OSX as well
13:53:58  <hylje> no
13:54:18  <Bjarni> well, I presume it will say "Mail" right
13:54:25  <hylje> mail dot app
13:54:29  <Bjarni> :p
13:55:20  <Bjarni> <zip`> bah no use arguing with people who think .fi is fiji
13:55:21  <Bjarni> haha
13:55:38  <Bjarni> we all know that it's Friisland ;)
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13:56:20  * Bjarni hides from hylje
13:56:52  <hylje> Dear aunt, Let's set so double the killer delete select all
13:57:01  <hylje> oh no, that was speech-to-text x)
13:57:19  <ChrisM87> Does anybody know whether the aircraft queueing patch is in the latest MiniIN?
13:57:53  <Nigel> hmmm, we once had a person come into a channel on freenode they said "hi, i am a femail"
13:58:04  <Rubidium> ChrisM87:
13:58:08  <ChrisM87> Rubidium: thx
13:58:21  <Nigel> should have got her parents address and posted her home
13:58:21  <Rubidium> so I guess it's not
14:00:01  <Nigel> must try miniin
14:00:12  <Nigel> maybe when i wake up later today
14:01:35  <Tron> Darkvater: one of the problems is that AyStar::free never gets called
14:03:36  <Darkvater> that is not so nice :(
14:04:54  <Tron> yeah, found this N months ago, but never investigated further
14:05:20  <Tron> Darkvater: where are these strdup()s?
14:07:44  <Darkvater> let' see
14:08:04  <Tron> *grml* damn Simutrans repo is down
14:08:55  <Darkvater> I'll have to look at home, but it was only 4-5 strdups made at the start of the game
14:09:12  <Darkvater> strangely even when I correctly freed them on shutdown, valgrind still complained :s
14:12:59  <Tron> ?
14:14:30  <Darkvater> go figure
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14:15:15  <MeusH> hello
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14:16:17  <Sacro> :o you killed him
14:16:26  * MeusH slaps Sacro
14:16:29  <MeusH> It wasn't on purpose
14:17:46  <Sacro> wow...
14:18:51  <Mucht|work> dailywtf, huh?
14:18:58  <Sacro> yup
14:19:10  <Sacro>
14:19:17  <Mucht|work> funny thing: they expect dailywtf-viewers to use firefox
14:19:30  <Mucht|work> I looked at the page with konqueror and thought: wtf?
14:19:45  <Mucht|work> because it was so - normal
14:19:50  <guru3> haha
14:20:07  <MeusH> Sacro: the redirection didn't work
14:20:16  <Sacro> MeusH: course it wont
14:20:20  <Sacro> whats wrong with a 303
14:20:25  <MeusH> why are you so sure?
14:20:26  <MeusH> maybye it works in IE...
14:20:27  <MeusH> lol
14:20:37  <MeusH> I don't get that site
14:20:41  <MeusH> what's point of it?
14:20:46  <MeusH> *the point
14:20:53  <OwenS> Apparently #openttd is oftc's 4th biggest channel, sorted by people
14:20:58  <guru3> lol
14:21:03  <SpComb> MeusH: the TDW post mentions firefox, I think...
14:21:07  <Sacro> MeusH: its some arse who doesnt know how to do a proper redirect
14:21:09  <guru3> OwenS: what's 1, 2 and 3?
14:21:13  <SpComb> "Today's example comes straight from and is best experienced with FireFox."
14:21:15  <OwenS> 1 is debian, I dunno the rest
14:21:22  <MeusH> :)
14:21:29  <MeusH> SpComb: can you give me the link, please?
14:21:31  * Sacro tries in ie5
14:21:35  <SpComb> MeusH: to what?
14:21:37  <hylje>
14:21:38  <SpComb>
14:21:41  <SpComb> clickable!
14:21:41  <MeusH> thanks
14:21:46  <MeusH> OwenS: we have had around 100 people on freenode :F
14:21:46  <Sacro> BWAHAHAHA
14:21:48  * SpComb slaps hylje around a bit with a hylje
14:21:49  <OwenS> #debian, #vserver, #oftc, #openttd
14:21:51  <Sacro> it just kills IE5
14:22:07  <MeusH> no way
14:22:08  <guru3> lol
14:22:11  * MeusH goes kill his IE5
14:22:11  <Mucht|work> meush: with 100 clients, openttd would be 2nd
14:22:24  <Mucht|work> but debian with its 300+ clients is unbeatable here ;-)
14:22:25  <Sacro> Cannot find server!
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14:22:41  <MeusH> hello Darkvater
14:23:13  <Sacro> think its down
14:25:20  <hylje> but #gentoo has around 900 in fn
14:29:45  *** Sacro [~ben@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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14:36:07  <lolman> Damn xchat :P
14:36:23  *** Netsplit <-> quits: egladil
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14:37:04  <lolman> Brianetta, afternoon :)
14:37:12  <Brianetta> it certainly is
14:37:23  <Brianetta> I think I need a cup of teas
14:37:36  <lolman> Several teas?
14:37:44  <Brianetta> The keys are adjacent; I missed
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14:37:53  <lolman> Hehe
14:38:03  <lolman> It's as if one tea isn't enough :P
14:38:12  <Brianetta> It peobably would be a blended tea
14:38:37  <lolman> Yeah, most are
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14:41:04  <MeusH> hi glx
14:41:08  <MeusH> I did say something along the lines of "C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot; C++ makes it harder, but when you do, it blows your whole leg off."
14:41:08  <MeusH>     Bjarne Stroustrup
14:41:35  <glx> hi MeusH
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14:56:25  <MeusH> without CIA developement seems to be frozen
14:56:38  <guru3> lol
14:56:44  <MeusH> or maybye developers don't hire CIA to have a paceful holiday?
14:59:10  <Bjarni> MeusH: ever considered that developers got a life?
14:59:14  <hylje> no?
14:59:32  <Bjarni> doing other stuff than to hang around an IRC channel and code software for free
14:59:45  <MeusH> no. Don't you remember you're dead and Sacro the necromancer assembled your corpse to code?
15:00:02  <Bjarni> I'm not dead
15:00:06  <MeusH> yes you are
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15:00:10  * MeusH touches Bjarni
15:00:12  <MeusH> see? you are
15:00:14  <Bjarni> but Sacro is by claiming such a thing
15:00:18  <Bjarni> see, he is not online
15:00:57  <MeusH> /of course I did consider it, Bjarni
15:01:03  <MeusH> I'm not a slave psycho
15:01:05  <MeusH> am I?
15:01:41  <Bjarni> since you have to ask, then I can see that you are completely under my control and can't do anything except what I tell you to do
15:01:57  <MeusH> shhh don't talk about it aloud
15:13:53  <OwenS> Question for you: Why does building electrified rail cost the same as unelectrified?
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15:15:49  *** JohnUK89 is now known as lolman
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15:18:51  * lolman is now happy :)
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15:25:24  <mikk36> lol
15:27:08  <orudge> [14:24:45] <Alltaken> yo yo, orudge you know of any software to do blender files on the server that will also manage version numbers? <-- see, I don't notice things like this now as it keeps flashing for OwenS
15:27:11  * orudge grrs again at mIRC
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15:35:08  <MeusH> O\/\/enS :) It is because costs haven't ben balanced yet
15:35:10  <OwenS> Haha
15:35:32  <MeusH> s/ben/been
15:38:39  <JohnUK89> Are we calling him O\/\/enS just so the other o\/\/en doesn't get annoyed?
15:44:02  <OwenS> ovven may work too :P
15:46:35  <MeusH> I don't know. So let's call both Ovvens Ovven
15:46:41  <MeusH> Ovven Rudge
15:47:09  <JohnUK89> Nah doesn't  work as well as O\/\/en
15:47:23  <MeusH> O |_|_| en
15:47:30  <orudge> Call him Oven, me Owen ;>
15:47:42  <orudge> Or call him O?enS or something ;)
15:47:45  <MeusH> Will do, sir SROTU
15:47:53  *** Dred_furst [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:47:56  <MeusH> O?en :)
15:49:20  *** mikk36 [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
15:49:46  <OwenS> You do realise i'm no longer getting your hghlights :P
15:49:49  *** |Jeroen| [] has joined #openttd
15:50:16  <MeusH> Change your settings to highlight on O<instert strange thing>wen :)
15:50:26  <OwenS> That setting doesn't exist
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15:52:27  <MeusH> Try Alt+Z
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16:00:48  <Tron> peter1138? Belugas?
16:01:19  <Tron>
16:01:44  * Belugas checks
16:02:23  *** Dred_furst [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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16:13:17  * JohnUK89 sighs
16:13:28  *** JohnUK89 is now known as lolman
16:14:10  <Darkvater> great :s
16:14:23  <lolman> Darkvater, whassup?
16:14:30  <Darkvater> a correctly working GetVehicleOutOfTunnelTile() kills performance :s
16:14:30  *** andrei [~andrei@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
16:14:59  <lolman> Darkvater, as if it wasn't killed anyway :P
16:15:10  <lolman> </joke>
16:15:51  *** lws1984 [] has joined #openttd
16:15:57  <Belugas> approved, Tron, apart from coding style, as mentionned in PM
16:17:12  *** Rohan [] has quit [Quit: Rohan]
16:21:48  <MeusH> bye
16:21:49  *** MeusH [] has quit [Quit: bye - quit]
16:22:44  <OwenS> <- This is not funny
16:23:05  *** |Jeroen| [] has quit [Quit: Whoopsy]
16:23:29  *** |Jeroen| [] has joined #openttd
16:23:39  <lws1984> *snicker*
16:26:59  *** DaleStan [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:27:16  * lolman hates Winblows now, it lost my UT2004 key
16:27:25  <lws1984> how do you get a steam engine on maglev tracks?
16:28:42  *** Sacro [~ben@] has joined #openttd
16:29:59  <OwenS> lws1984: I don't have a clue; The games just bugged out
16:30:07  <lws1984> heh
16:30:11  <lws1984> funny *teehee*
16:32:18  <Patrick`> mm, mass convert tool
16:33:45  * Sacro converts lws1984 into a block of cheese
16:34:57  * lolman converts Sacro into his laptop
16:34:58  <lws1984> hey!
16:35:04  <lolman> Now you know what it feels like :P
16:36:59  *** Mucht|zZz is now known as Mucht
16:42:24  *** AciD [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:42:35  *** AciD [] has joined #openttd
16:45:20  *** |AciD| [] has joined #openttd
16:45:29  *** |AciD| is now known as AciD`
16:45:42  <lws1984> someone make me human?
16:45:48  <lws1984> I can't stand being cheesy!
16:45:59  * lolman converts lws1984 into a length of rope
16:46:04  <lws1984> great
16:46:22  <lws1984> HUMAN!
16:46:24  <lws1984> NOT ROPE!
16:46:27  * lolman ties lws1984 to a tree
16:46:43  <lws1984> great.
16:46:48  <lws1984> HUMAN! ME! PLEASE
16:46:49  <lws1984> !
16:46:55  *** ^pacman [] has quit []
16:47:02  <guru3> talk about a new way to hang yourself
16:47:02  * SpComb converts lws1984 into a human
16:47:03  <lolman> Ropes can't talk :)
16:47:13  <SpComb> now you are a human that's tied around a tree
16:47:21  <lws1984> well, better than nothing
16:47:34  <SpComb> well, it might be a bit uncomfortable
16:47:34  * lws1984 disentangles himself
16:47:43  * lws1984 kills Sacro with his swiss army knife
16:47:54  * lolman runs
16:48:10  <lws1984> I wasn't going to kill YOU!
16:48:14  * lws1984 gives lolman a cookie
16:48:19  <SpComb> lws1984: he probably tied a knot in the rope... which would mean a knot in you
16:48:27  <lolman> :-D
16:48:31  <lws1984> aye, my leg's feeling a bit off
16:48:31  * lolman eats the cookie
16:48:37  * lolman dies of the poison
16:48:46  <lws1984> oh no! wrong cookie!
16:48:50  * lws1984 gives lolman the antidote
16:48:58  <lolman> I'm dead!
16:49:35  <lws1984> not anymore!
16:49:39  <lws1984> I antidoted you!
16:49:50  <lolman> :-D
16:50:06  *** Wolf01 [] has joined #openttd
16:50:26  <Wolf01> :look:
16:51:08  <SpComb> Wolf01: they are busy being silly spammers
16:51:32  <Wolf01> they who?
16:51:46  <Sacro> t3h italians
16:51:51  <Wolf01> oh
16:51:54  <Sacro> :P
16:51:54  <lolman> Sacro and lws1984 :-D
16:52:17  * Sacro ftw!
16:52:39  * lolman kicks Sacro, so he can't win
16:52:50  <lws1984> I'm not italian!
16:52:55  <lws1984> but don't distract me.
16:53:05  <lws1984> I'm trying to make a scenario in OpenTTD!
16:54:23  <lolman> I'm downloading a UT2004 patch :P
16:54:25  *** moebius [] has joined #openttd
16:54:32  <lolman> After I finally got the bugger working
16:55:00  <Wolf01> ah, what about the support to load terragen terrains in TGP?
16:55:47  <Wolf01> i think terragen can make also greyscale maps, so the question is futile
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17:01:55  <Rubidium> Wolf01: you can code it yourself as if it were an image format you wanted to use; the code is already able to load several data formats (png & bmp), so adding a third is not very difficult
17:03:57  *** Maedhros [] has quit [Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by Maedhros_))]
17:04:01  *** Maedhros_ is now known as Maedhros
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17:22:53  <unsurnamed>  9 check this
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17:24:35  *** Sjoerd_ [] has joined #openttd
17:24:37  <Sjoerd_> hello!
17:24:41  <Rubidium> and another one in #gpmi ...
17:24:48  <Rubidium> woops...
17:24:54  <Rubidium> hello Sjoerd_
17:25:00  <Sjoerd_> i have set up a server on ubuntu cli box, it runs great
17:25:08  <Sjoerd_> but people want bigger station_spread
17:25:16  <Sjoerd_> how to i change it without resetting game?
17:25:21  <Sjoerd_> i heard it can be done via gui
17:25:27  <Sjoerd_> so cli should do as well?
17:26:56  <Rubidium> I'm not really into that, maybe someone else knows
17:27:08  <Sjoerd_> i have searched the wiki but no luck :)
17:27:10  <Sjoerd_> thanks anyway!
17:27:42  <glx> try "patch station_spread"
17:27:54  <Sjoerd_> ah ok :)
17:27:54  <glx> from game console
17:28:20  <Sjoerd_> ok the game console
17:28:31  <Sjoerd_> but it's a different computer
17:28:49  <glx> should work using rcon
17:29:38  <Sjoerd_> ok and what was the command for setting rcon password? Via ssh?
17:30:08  *** Sacro_ [~ben@] has joined #openttd
17:30:39  <Sjoerd_> nevermind i found it
17:30:46  <Sjoerd_> it's just rcon_password <pass>
17:31:57  *** StarLite [] has joined #openttd
17:32:07  <Sjoerd_> i tried this: rcon <password> patch station_spread 30
17:32:54  <glx> rcon <password> 'patch station_spread 30'
17:33:06  <glx> quotes are important :)
17:33:08  <Sjoerd_> ah, ok
17:34:05  <Sjoerd_> it worked, thanks a lot :)
17:34:10  <glx> np
17:34:24  <Sjoerd_> can i also change the way trains load?
17:34:33  <Sjoerd_> so it loads one, and after that the second train?
17:34:40  <Sjoerd_> not at the same time.
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17:34:57  <glx> you can change all patches settings using 'patch'
17:35:02  <Patrick`> yes, but I don't know what the name for the settings is
17:35:06  <|Jeroen|> gradual loading
17:35:16  <|Jeroen|> i think
17:35:16  <glx> it's the same name as in openttd.cfg
17:35:19  <Patrick`> gradual_loading surely
17:35:46  <glx> improved_load
17:36:07  <Sjoerd_> ok
17:36:24  <Sjoerd_> thanks again
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17:38:55  *** |Jeroen| [] has quit [Quit: Whoopsy]
17:40:09  <Sjoerd_> will there be more company's possible on one game with future releases?
17:40:29  <Sjoerd_> or what stops it from being possible, anyone knows?
17:41:10  *** lws1984 [] has joined #openttd
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17:42:06  <Alhambra>  9 check it
17:42:08  *** Alhambra [~username@] has left #openttd []
17:44:41  <Patrick`> oh, yeah, freenode had systems in place to STOP those sorts of bots
17:45:13  <Sjoerd_> you can't
17:45:16  <glx> Sjoerd_: for now the number of compant colors is limited
17:45:22  <glx> *company
17:45:38  <Sjoerd_> ah ok i understand, but is it that hard to pull it up?
17:46:01  <Sjoerd_> and there are more then 8 colors available already?
17:46:57  <glx> someone wrote a patch to increase number of companies to 16
17:47:13  <Sjoerd_> interesting
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17:47:37  <Sjoerd_> 16 already is a lot better then 8 :)
17:47:42  <Sjoerd_> especially for public servers
17:47:53  <Sjoerd_> where people come, build 2 trains, and then never come back
17:48:15  <glx> you can always remove these companies :)
17:48:15  <Sacro_> Sjoerd_: i keep forgetting i started playing
17:48:54  <Sjoerd_> heh?
17:49:07  <Sjoerd_> glx: yes that's what i do but i hate destroying peoples work....
17:49:19  <Sjoerd_> glx: they might come back with sad faces
17:49:29  <Sjoerd_> glx: for me building three trains is nothing but for a noob?
17:55:25  *** TrueLight [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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18:03:09  *** stillunknown [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:04:12  <Belugas> man... 360k of synching
18:06:42  *** PAStheLoD [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
18:07:27  *** DaleStan [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
18:08:48  <SpComb> one of the OFTC servers is behind the same switch/router as a freenode server, they keep netsplitting at the same time
18:09:25  <hylje> :o
18:09:28  *** AciD` [] has quit [Quit: Connection not reset by peer.]
18:10:07  *** DaleStan [] has joined #openttd
18:11:43  <Patrick`> man, that is NASTY
18:12:05  <Patrick`> an irc channel I'm in just came up with a #define TWO where TWO == 2 and (TWO + TWO) == 5
18:12:52  <SpComb> hmm
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18:21:08  <Darkvater> great, just fucking great
18:21:42  <Darkvater> GetVehicleOutOfTunnelTile: 69% of total runtime.. :s
18:23:10  <Patrick`> lol'd
18:23:15  <Patrick`> what's going on there?
18:23:21  <Darkvater> nothing, it works correcly
18:23:39  <Darkvater> before this function did nothing basically and returned v->tile, now it does something and fucks up
18:23:52  <Darkvater> probably because all pathfinders were written with the thought that this function is broken
18:24:54  <ln-> do we need a hardware accelerator card for GetVehicleOutOfTunnelTile?
18:26:00  <OwenS> How many lines is it now?
18:28:25  <Patrick`> all the pathfinders are calling it too much, is that what you mean?
18:28:26  <Bjarni> Darkvater: ok, now the goal is to keep the functionality while increasing the speed... different kind of coding than bug fixing ;)
18:28:27  *** DaleStan [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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18:29:08  <Patrick`> bug: code is slow.
18:29:35  *** Sacro [~ben@] has joined #openttd
18:29:50  <OwenS> But why exactly do they have to deal with tunnels so much?
18:30:29  <Bjarni> bug: code is extremely slow
18:30:29  * Bjarni wonders how Darkvater managed to make it that slow
18:30:32  <Bjarni> I mean, it's almost as slow as the cocoa video driver when it redrew the whole screen each time
18:31:31  <SpComb> pastebin the function!
18:32:06  <OwenS> What was the problem with it before?
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18:35:16  *** mode/#openttd [+o TrueLight] by ChanServ
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18:36:36  <TrueLight> Howdie!
18:38:01  <Sacro> hey TrueLight
18:38:57  <TrueLight> how are you all doing?
18:39:26  <OwenS> Darkvafer has made GetVehicleOutOfTunnelTile 100,000 times slower...
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18:43:18  <ln-> its ability to get a vehicle out of a tunnel is insignificant compared to the power of the Force.
18:45:39  <TrueLight> boring people, iek!
18:46:58  <Patrick`> haha, darkvafer
18:47:05  <Patrick`> sounds like something I'd jam into an icecream
18:47:32  <lws1984> like the Swedish Chef trying to say "Dark wafer"
18:47:34  <lws1984> *snicker*
18:47:55  <guru3> woo swedish chef
18:48:03  <lws1984> BORK BORK BORK!
18:48:18  <guru3> i love the choclate moose one ><
18:48:25  <guru3> here's the moose <insert moose>
18:48:33  <guru3> and then you put the choclate on the mouse <puts choclate on the moose>
18:48:43  *** UserErr0r [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:49:35  <lws1984> remember salad?
18:49:46  <lws1984> "and you take ze lettuce" <insert lettuce>
18:49:55  <lws1984> "und heere is ze boom-boom"
18:50:00  <lws1984> <insert pistol>
18:50:10  <lws1984> <throw lettuce in air, shoot with pistol>
18:50:25  <guru3> hrhrhr
18:50:36  <guru3> the chicken with the ping pong balls is good too
18:50:52  <lws1984> hehe
18:50:57  <lws1984> aah, remember meatballs?
18:51:02  <lws1984> "15-love!"
18:51:05  <guru3> sadly no :/
18:51:27  *** moebius [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
18:51:27  <ln-> how does one pronounce "irc" in english?
18:51:39  <guru3> eye-are-see
18:51:47  <TrueLight> Tron: may I point out to you, that according to, it is Vehicle *v, not Vehicle* v. I quote: 'Pointers are of the following: "Vehicle *v" NOT "Vehicle* v" or "Vehicle*v" '. In your latest few commits this goes 'wrong' a lot of times. Darkvater, CC for you.
18:52:00  *** Superman [] has joined #openttd
18:52:21  <Sacro> ln-: IRC
18:53:11  <ln-> eye-ar-see sounds so long and complex compared to what we call it in finnish (simply "eerk")
18:53:32  <guru3> well some finnish guy did invent it
18:53:49  <ln-> indeed.
18:54:01  <guru3> but calling it eerk is just weird
18:54:24  <guru3> like calling brb berb or something
18:55:04  <ln-> some people called it "irssi", and then someone happened to pick that as a name of an irc client.
18:55:22  <guru3> i always say irssi as eye are es es aye
18:56:01  <ln-> that's so wrong :)
18:56:10  <guru3> i just say outloud the letters ><
18:57:04  *** stillunknown [] has joined #openttd
18:57:06  <ln-> so much simpler to say "eerssi"
18:57:29  *** Progman [] has joined #openttd
18:57:32  <lws1984> I say "erssi"
18:58:03  <Gonozal_VIII> in german its the name "Dirk" without the d
18:58:25  <guru3> it's not like people say things like this outloud very often either
18:58:31  <SpComb> code problem! Whee, crash freenode!
18:58:36  <hylje> oololol lilo strikes again
18:59:49  <Darkvater> bullshit, it's not my fault the pathfinders are so fucking stupid
18:59:55  <Darkvater> the function does what it's supposed to do
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19:00:00  <Darkvater> wb TrueLight
19:00:22  <TrueLight> tnx :)
19:00:56  <OwenS> Darkvater: How many lines is it now?
19:00:59  <lws1984> Lilo episode II: Revenge of teh Code
19:01:40  <Darkvater> OwenS: same amount
19:01:51  <Darkvater> number of lines says nothing about the speed/complexity of a function
19:02:01  *** silent [~pwr@] has joined #openttd
19:02:04  <Gonozal_VIII> what does that function do anyways?
19:02:04  <hylje> thats why perl oneliners are blazing fast? ;b
19:02:05  <Bjarni> Darkvater: now that TrueLight returned I presume that you read the diff ;)
19:02:06  <Bjarni> :p
19:02:34  <Darkvater> TileIndex GetVehicleOutOfTunnelTile(Vehicle)
19:02:40  <Darkvater> now what might this function do? hmm
19:02:44  <stillunknown> lws1984: it would be: The Code, because you use it as name and the is a part of it
19:03:01  <lws1984> true, but who cares?
19:03:06  *** Ammler [] has joined #openttd
19:03:16  <stillunknown> it seems i do\
19:03:26  <stillunknown> r\\
19:03:27  <lws1984> aye, but besides that..
19:03:29  <Gonozal_VIII> get vehicles out of tunnels^^ but what's so complicated about that?
19:04:58  <stillunknown> lws1984: there must be a few people on this planet who care :-)
19:05:00  <Darkvater> it gets the end-tile of the tunnel of a vehicle that is inside a tunnel
19:05:13  *** lolman [~john@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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19:07:15  *** Ammler [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:10:19  *** thgergo [] has joined #openttd
19:13:29  *** Ammler [] has joined #openttd
19:14:43  *** MeusH [] has joined #openttd
19:14:50  <MeusH> hi
19:16:30  <Darkvater> ey
19:16:32  *** DaleStan [] has joined #openttd
19:16:39  <Darkvater> ey
19:17:08  <Darkvater> !seen blathijs
19:17:10  <DorpsGek> Darkvater, if you can't see blathijs here right now, you probably need new glasses. ^_^
19:17:48  <stillunknown> !seen stillunknown
19:17:49  <DorpsGek> stillunknown, Hum... don't you think this nick is a bit long? ^_^
19:17:56  <hylje> hahah
19:17:57  <stillunknown> !seen stillunknown
19:17:57  <DorpsGek> stillunknown, Hum... don't you think this nick is a bit long? ^_^
19:18:06  <stillunknown> what an unusual responce
19:18:20  <glx> !seen still*
19:18:21  <DorpsGek> glx, I found one match to your query: stillunknown. stillunknown ( was last seen joining #openttd 21 minutes ago (18.08. 18:57). stillunknown is still there.
19:18:21  <hylje> i think it's not configured correctly
19:18:52  <stillunknown> !seen still*
19:18:53  <DorpsGek> stillunknown, I found one match to your query: stillunknown. stillunknown ( was last seen joining #openttd 21 minutes ago (18.08. 18:57). stillunknown is still there.
19:19:00  *** stillunknown was kicked from #openttd by Darkvater [yes, we know you are here, now quit it]
19:20:36  *** lolman [~john@] has joined #openttd
19:20:39  *** Sacro [~Sacro@] has joined #openttd
19:20:46  <lolman> :o
19:20:58  <Bjarni> hmm
19:21:07  <Bjarni> Sacro and lolman joined at the same time
19:21:12  * Sacro hits lolman with a stick
19:21:14  <lolman> * Disconnected (Invalid argument). <wtf?
19:21:15  <Bjarni> where have you two been (together)?
19:21:22  * lolman kicks lolman
19:21:23  <Sacro> Bjarni: denmark
19:21:24  <lolman> :)
19:22:13  <MeusH> I think "was last seen..." is much better behaviour than "you need new glasses"
19:23:14  <Bjarni> <-- lame :p
19:23:17  <lws1984> but glasses are funnier!
19:23:54  <MeusH> lws1984: IMO when someone types !seen, wants particular information not some lame joke
19:24:37  <hylje> lame jokes are fun
19:24:41  <MeusH> indeed
19:24:42  <MeusH> :)
19:24:46  <hylje> and especially when they mock the user
19:24:52  <hylje> in the "stupid user" attitude
19:24:59  <lws1984> and since I wear glasses, I find it funnier
19:25:28  <MeusH> Bjarni, anybody: what do (-5/9) numbers right to qdb quote ID mean?
19:25:36  <MeusH> 5 negative and 9 positive?
19:25:37  <hylje> minus five points out of nine votes
19:25:42  <hylje> afaik
19:25:44  <MeusH> okay, thanks
19:25:48  <MeusH> that isn't good
19:25:54  <MeusH> I'll click (+) :)
19:26:30  * Sacro considers installing Linux in VMWare
19:26:31  <Bjarni> it's not that funny
19:26:56  <Bjarni> <-- this one is funnier
19:27:23  <Bjarni> specially because some complete stranger messaged me after reading this with "I'm compiling now. Consider this a warning"
19:27:41  <Bjarni> this guy had never been in the channel
19:27:57  <MeusH> Bjarni, that's nice :)
19:28:36  <XeryusTC> Bjarni: are you submitting quotes of yourself to qdb?
19:28:46  <Bjarni> no
19:28:57  <Bjarni> well, I did once
19:29:02  <Bjarni> not anymore
19:30:08  <Bjarni> heh, I was about to highlight some text to copy paste it into another app and then I realised.... I can't highlight in a screenshot xD
19:30:19  <MeusH> nice :)
19:30:21  <OwenS> O.o
19:30:37  <lws1984> *snicker*
19:30:49  <hylje> :o
19:32:19  <MeusH> there is a nice polish-only linux joke.
19:32:19  <MeusH> A girl asks a developer if he would go out with her.
19:32:19  <MeusH> But he responses "not now, I'm compiling my kernel".
19:32:19  <MeusH> The funny thing is that "kernel" in polish is the same as "balls"
19:32:19  <MeusH> (the balls you have between legs)
19:32:20  <MeusH> and the girl thinks that the guy is totally sick
19:32:22  * Bjarni just realised that such a line might not be the wisest to write
19:32:29  <Bjarni> now I will end up on qdb again
19:32:43  <hylje> :o
19:32:54  <MeusH> :F
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19:34:11  <Bjarni> MeusH: that's a bad smiley
19:34:19  <hylje> :E
19:34:32  *** Sacro [~Sacro@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:34:36  <MeusH> :U
19:34:36  <Bjarni> you indicate that you got two tongues
19:34:41  <hylje> :E
19:34:44  <MeusH> I'm a vampire
19:34:45  <Bjarni> do you speak with both of them?
19:34:49  <MeusH> these are two sharp teeth
19:34:54  <MeusH> and I'm going to bite you!
19:35:00  <hylje> :E
19:35:00  * MeusH bites Bjarni
19:35:22  * Bjarni ignores MeusH
19:35:27  <Bjarni> oh well
19:35:30  * MeusH drinks coke from his heart
19:35:45  <Bjarni> I better tell you that I got a silver chainmail on
19:36:01  <MeusH> your vein contain fizzy drinks
19:36:03  *** Sacro [~Sacro@adsl-83-100-162-68.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
19:36:08  <MeusH> you played too much toyland
19:36:12  <Bjarni> custom designed as an anti vampire armour
19:36:22  <Bjarni> ROFL
19:36:26  <MeusH> Bjarni: here you are
19:37:21  <Sacro> roflcopter
19:38:23  <MeusH> rofletrain
19:38:40  *** lws1984 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:39:02  *** stillunknown [] has joined #openttd
19:39:42  <MeusH> !seen M*
19:39:42  <DorpsGek> MeusH, I found 31 matches to your query. These are the 5 most recent ones: MeusH, moebius, Maedhros_, Maedhros, Mucht|zZz. MeusH ( was last seen joining #openttd 24 minutes ago (18.08. 19:14). MeusH is still there.
19:39:54  <MeusH> !seen *
19:39:56  <DorpsGek> MeusH, Ouch, your search returned way too many matches. Please refine it.
19:40:01  <Darkvater> do you want a kick MeusH ?
19:40:08  <MeusH> of course
19:40:09  <MeusH> I don't
19:40:11  <MeusH> :)
19:40:14  <MeusH> Just testing
19:40:16  <MeusH> debugging
19:40:16  <Mucht> !seen ab
19:40:18  <DorpsGek> Mucht, I don't remember seeing ab.
19:40:25  <Darkvater> ehum
19:40:28  <Mucht> nice thing
19:40:38  *** Trenskow [~outlet@] has joined #openttd
19:40:39  <Mucht> lets call it eliza?
19:43:28  <MeusH> volleyball girls are beautiful
19:43:35  * MeusH watches volleyball women
19:44:13  <Bjarni> !seen D*
19:44:14  <DorpsGek> Bjarni, I found 22 matches to your query. These are the 5 most recent ones: DaleStan, Dred_furst, Dred_furst`, Darkvater, dp-_. DaleStan ( was last seen joining #openttd 27 minutes ago (18.08. 19:16). DaleStan is still there.
19:44:29  <Bjarni> we got that many D people in here....
19:44:34  <Bjarni> who would have thought that
19:44:45  *** tom [] has joined #openttd
19:44:48  <tom> :j #debian
19:44:49  <Bjarni> I thought it was an all guy channel
19:45:22  <hylje> oh, there's a vim irc client?
19:45:22  <DaleStan> But the real problem is when DaleStan, Darkvater, DanMacK and DaveWorley all show up in #tycoon.
19:45:40  <Darkvater> :)
19:45:43  <Bjarni> hehe
19:45:55  <hylje> heheh
19:46:07  <Sacro> !seen *
19:46:08  <DorpsGek> Sacro, Ouch, your search returned way too many matches. Please refine it.
19:46:11  <Bjarni> that's not an issue unless people write da[tab], which will then be a stupid thing to do
19:46:15  * hylje considers changing my name to delje
19:46:25  *** Sacro is now known as da[tab]
19:46:31  *** da[tab] was kicked from #openttd by Bjarni [we already tried that one. You abused the bot]
19:46:39  *** da[tab] [~Sacro@adsl-83-100-162-68.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
19:46:41  <da[tab]> aww :(
19:46:45  <Bjarni> cool
19:46:58  <DaleStan> It used to be that DanMack and I would get confused at least once a day.
19:46:59  <Bjarni> I wrote /kick Sacro, not da[tab]
19:47:17  <Bjarni> yet the client figured it out anyway
19:47:28  <XeryusTC> lol
19:48:03  <hylje> Bjarni: actually the ircd backtracks people if they change nicks and get kill/kick
19:48:12  <Bjarni> or maybe da[tab] is just the guy to kick if you write an invalid name
19:48:18  *** tom [] has quit []
19:48:28  <Bjarni> ahh
19:48:37  <hylje> at least asuka-ircd does this
19:48:43  <Bjarni> so you can't even hide from my kicks by changing names faster than I can type them
19:48:44  <hylje> i studied its code
19:48:59  <hylje> yep
19:49:08  <hylje> and you cant generally change nicks more than 2 times a minute
19:49:12  <Bjarni> but if anybody get that idea, then they will just flood out instead :p
19:49:30  <da[tab]> this pc seriously needs linux
19:49:55  *** Trenskow [~outlet@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:50:05  <glx> da[tab]: and you need to change your name
19:50:53  <da[tab]> aww but why
19:50:57  <da[tab]> its so easy to type
19:51:13  *** da[tab] is now known as lollman
19:51:29  <hylje> sacro murk lore
19:52:09  *** MeusH [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:54:06  <lollman> !seen [A-C]*
19:54:08  <DorpsGek> lollman, I'm sorry, but your search didn't return any results.
19:54:16  *** Trenskow [~outlet@] has joined #openttd
19:54:19  <lollman> aww :(
19:54:32  *** Nigel [~Nigel@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
19:54:39  <Darkvater> !seen peter1138
19:54:40  <DorpsGek> Darkvater, please look a bit closer at the memberlist of this channel.
19:54:49  <Darkvater> !commands
19:54:55  *** Nigel [~Nigel@] has joined #openttd
19:54:58  *** Ammler [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:55:08  <Darkvater> !commands
19:55:14  <Darkvater> hmm
19:55:19  <lolman> !seen Sacro
19:55:20  <ln-> /quit, /exit
19:55:20  <DorpsGek> lolman, I found 4 matches to your query: da[tab], lollman, Sacro, [1]Sacro. da[tab] (~Sacro@adsl-83-100-162-68.karoo.KCOM.COM) was last seen changing his/her nick to lollman on #openttd 4 minutes ago (18.08. 19:51). lollman is still there.
19:55:21  <lolman> Haha!
19:55:39  <hylje> s/[B-Za-z]/A/g
19:56:16  <TrueLight> !seen help
19:56:18  <DorpsGek> TrueLight, I don't remember seeing help.
19:56:20  <TrueLight> hehe
19:56:29  <hylje> !seen me
19:56:30  <DorpsGek> hylje, I don't remember seeing me.
19:56:34  <TrueLight> [21:56:28] peter1138's idle time: 1d 4h 20m 35s
19:56:38  <lolman> !seen myself
19:56:38  <DorpsGek> lolman, myself? hmm... I'm trying to remember... maybe... I'm not sure... no. I don't remember myself.
19:56:42  <TrueLight> Darkvater: there you go :p
19:57:04  <Darkvater> how'd you do that/
19:57:10  <TrueLight> Just a simple whois :)
19:57:15  <TrueLight> IRC built-in :)
19:57:23  <Darkvater> not in irssi
19:57:36  <Darkvater> :(
19:57:40  <TrueLight> So use a REAL IRC client
19:57:45  <Darkvater>  /kick TrueLight
19:57:51  <TrueLight> bite e
19:57:52  <TrueLight> bite me
19:57:57  * Darkvater bites TrueLight
19:58:08  <Mucht> TrueLight: its getting cold in #tycoon
19:58:11  * Darkvater bites off TrueLight's balls and runs off with them
19:58:22  <Darkvater> *giggle*
19:58:38  <TrueLight> Mucht: cold? #tycoon?
19:58:43  <TrueLight> Darkvater: GIVE THEM BACK! :(
19:58:44  <hylje> :o
19:58:52  <lolman> Damnit >_< Me chair just broke :-\
19:59:01  <glx> lol
19:59:04  <hylje> did ballmer get ahold of it?
19:59:11  *** netgert [] has quit []
19:59:15  <lolman> Dunno lol
19:59:33  <hylje> how do i shot web?
19:59:38  <Darkvater> muhaahhahahha
20:00:06  <Kjetil> Raptor jesus, is that baby for sale ?
20:01:08  *** Progman [] has joined #openttd
20:03:10  *** Sjoerd_ [] has quit []
20:04:41  *** john_ [~john@] has joined #openttd
20:05:06  *** john_ is now known as lolman_
20:05:17  *** lolman [~john@] has quit [Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by lolman_))]
20:05:26  *** lolman_ is now known as lolman
20:07:07  <SpComb> Logs:
20:07:07  <TrueLight> !logs
20:07:41  <TrueLight> SpComb: ping
20:08:47  <lollman> TrueLight: pongs!
20:09:15  *** lollman was kicked from #openttd by TrueLight [Never intersept someone else his pong, it is rude!]
20:09:24  <hylje> pong
20:09:26  *** lollman [~Sacro@adsl-83-100-162-68.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
20:09:33  *** hylje was kicked from #openttd by TrueLight [Strike 2]
20:09:38  <TrueLight> More candidates?
20:09:43  *** hylje [hylje@] has joined #openttd
20:09:50  <Bjarni> who is lollman?
20:09:51  <hylje> it echoed
20:09:52  <TrueLight> Just let me know, I am more then happy to kick
20:10:02  <lolman> lollman is Sacro
20:10:02  * Darkvater gives TrueLight back his magic balls
20:10:05  <Darkvater> you go girl!
20:10:17  *** lollman was kicked from #openttd by Bjarni [get your real name back]
20:10:22  <lolman> !seen Sacro
20:10:24  <DorpsGek> lolman, I found 4 matches to your query: lollman, da[tab], Sacro, [1]Sacro. lollman (~Sacro@adsl-83-100-162-68.karoo.KCOM.COM) was last seen being kicked from #openttd by Bjarni ( get your real name back) 5 seconds ago (18.08. 20:10), after spending 52 seconds there.
20:10:27  *** lollman [~Sacro@adsl-83-100-162-68.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
20:10:31  *** lollman was kicked from #openttd by Bjarni [get your real name back]
20:10:32  *** silent [~pwr@] has quit [Quit: Client exiting]
20:10:38  <TrueLight> Bjarni: enough is enough...
20:10:42  *** Sacro [~Sacro@adsl-83-100-162-68.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
20:10:46  <Bjarni> yeah
20:10:48  <Bjarni> it worked
20:10:48  <lolman> :)
20:10:57  <Sacro> [21:10] -DorpsGek- lolman (~john@ was looking for you on #openttd 19 seconds ago (18.08. 20:10).
20:11:10  <lolman> :P
20:12:21  <TrueLight> nice :)
20:12:22  *** Trenskow^ [~outlet@] has joined #openttd
20:12:27  *** Trenskow [~outlet@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:14:19  * Sacro yawns
20:14:19  *** Osai [] has quit [Quit: Osai]
20:14:23  <Sacro> and fancies some OpenTTD
20:14:39  <glx> TrueLight: cia keeps trying to join #openttd on freenode
20:15:07  <TrueLight> glx: yeah....
20:15:20  <glx> tough it's banned :)
20:15:31  <TrueLight> it should not be banned
20:15:37  <TrueLight> it really shouldn't.....
20:15:54  <TrueLight> (I am pretty sure that will result in a ban on OpentTD in CIA)
20:16:21  <SpComb> TrueLight: pong
20:16:21  *** Guest56 [] has joined #openttd
20:16:30  <SpComb> TrueLight: I'm playing BF2 now
20:17:10  *** Bengoz [] has joined #openttd
20:17:15  <TrueLight> SpComb: then nevermind, we do it tomorrow :)
20:17:24  <hylje> :o
20:17:35  *** Darkvater [] has left #openttd []
20:17:35  *** Darkvater [] has joined #openttd
20:17:39  *** mode/#openttd [+o Darkvater] by ChanServ
20:17:56  *** BJH2 [] has joined #openttd
20:18:28  <TrueLight> Echo from freenode: who ever bans CIA again on freenode, gets banned on freenode himself. I repeat: DO NOT BAN CIA
20:18:32  <TrueLight> glad we cleared that out :)
20:18:39  <TrueLight> (and no, do not join freenode either :p)
20:19:04  <Darkvater> the idea was not to confuse people by having cia commits there
20:19:14  <TrueLight> Darkvater: I understand
20:19:20  <Sacro> devoice him
20:19:23  <TrueLight> still the warning stays :)
20:19:26  <Darkvater> :)
20:19:27  <Sacro> and only allow voiced people to talk
20:19:34  <TrueLight> Sacro: did just that
20:20:21  <Sacro> TrueLight: yay!
20:20:57  *** Gonozal_VIII [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:21:48  *** Sjoerd_ [] has joined #openttd
20:21:55  <Sjoerd_> how to fight sync errors?
20:22:05  <TrueLight> with your sword!
20:22:12  <ln-> play single-player game.
20:22:22  <TrueLight> :)
20:22:32  <Sjoerd_> thanks, any serious answers as well?
20:22:37  <TrueLight> Sjoerd_: save the game, reload
20:22:43  <TrueLight> and you should be able to play for some years
20:22:44  <Sjoerd_> good laugh doesn't hurt but......
20:22:47  <Sacro> ln-: thats my answer
20:23:02  <Sjoerd_> how do i save and reload?
20:23:03  <TrueLight> check if newgrfs match
20:23:10  <TrueLight> also a good one
20:23:19  <ln-> Sjoerd_: or take a debugger and try to debug what's causing sync errors.
20:23:28  <TrueLight> ln-: yeah, stop talking now
20:23:31  <TrueLight> that is absolute bullshit
20:23:47  <TrueLight> there is not 1 single way to debug that with any debugger
20:23:55  <ln-> of course not
20:23:57  <hylje> i had a random desync in miniin
20:24:04  <hylje> but it was well 40yrs into the game
20:24:08  <TrueLight> so if you don't have anything useful to say, don't say anything at all :)
20:24:11  <Sjoerd_> i have checked my server, ping times are around 12ms and there is enough up/down bandwith
20:24:21  <TrueLight> Sjoerd_: desyncs are rarely caused by such effects
20:24:25  <TrueLight> mostly it is either newgrf
20:24:31  <ln-> TrueLight: but still it's fighting, yet not a fight that leads to great victories
20:24:31  <TrueLight> or a game running for a long time
20:24:41  *** Guest56 is now known as Gonozal_VIII
20:24:42  <Sjoerd_> it is running for like 12 hours
20:24:47  <Sjoerd_> does that count as a long time?
20:24:56  <TrueLight> I had games running for 7 days
20:25:00  <TrueLight> I had games running 2 hours
20:25:28  <TrueLight> So as long as saving (save in console) and loading (Closing server and loading the savegame again) works
20:25:30  <TrueLight> use that :p
20:25:40  <TrueLight> else: I need a lot of details from you, starting with newgrf :)
20:25:49  <Sjoerd_> i'm asking people about newgrf
20:25:52  <TrueLight> I wonder if wiki doesn't say a few things about it...
20:26:04  <Sjoerd_> i read an article about networking
20:26:14  <Sjoerd_> i tried suggested things
20:26:17  <TrueLight> Darkvater: reminds me, when will newgrf be saved in savegame?
20:26:19  <Sjoerd_> but no luck whatsoever
20:26:29  *** lolman [~john@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:26:29  <TrueLight> tried save/load?
20:26:35  <Sjoerd_>
20:26:47  <TrueLight> yeah, not really the right site for this :)
20:26:49  <Sjoerd_> i want to try save/load but i have to figure out how
20:26:53  <TrueLight> I believe I should write one :p
20:27:01  <TrueLight> Sjoerd_: dedicated or normal server?
20:27:06  <Sjoerd_> dedicated
20:27:13  <Sjoerd_> i have ssh access
20:27:14  <TrueLight> enter: 'save'
20:27:18  <TrueLight> in console of dedicated
20:27:23  <TrueLight> enter 'quit'
20:27:31  <TrueLight> euh
20:27:34  <TrueLight> 'save temp.sav'
20:27:38  <TrueLight> it needs a savegame name :
20:27:39  <TrueLight> p
20:27:48  <TrueLight> ./openttd -D <what ever params you had> -g save/temp.sav
20:27:56  <TrueLight> I am sure there is a faster way
20:27:56  <Sjoerd_> Map sucessfully saved to /home/sjoerd/openttd-0.4.8/save/temp.sav.sav
20:27:59  <TrueLight> but.... oh well...
20:28:04  <TrueLight> hehe, so only 'save temp' :p
20:28:26  <TrueLight> I believe the console has load too
20:28:27  <OwenS> ^ And hes a developer? :O
20:28:32  <TrueLight> so in fact you don't have to close the server
20:28:39  <TrueLight> OwenS: yeah, a non-trunk-active dev
20:28:51  *** Superman [] has quit []
20:28:53  <OwenS> True
20:28:56  <TrueLight> so I am just guessing around :p
20:29:01  <TrueLight> by lack of any better advise....
20:29:12  <Sjoerd_> it's a public server
20:29:19  <Sjoerd_> what if people use newgrf thing?
20:29:24  <Sjoerd_> they can just do..?
20:29:30  <TrueLight> if a client with newgrf joins that a server doesn't have
20:29:31  <TrueLight> he can desync
20:29:34  <TrueLight> in a blink
20:29:59  <Sjoerd_> but can it cause other players to desync as well?
20:30:03  <TrueLight> nope
20:30:09  <TrueLight> okay: it shouldn't
20:30:11  <Sjoerd_> ok then it's no newgrf
20:30:13  <TrueLight> but I don't think there is a way :p
20:30:58  <OwenS> Wiki says: "The network protocol is 100% endian safe. We made that possible by creating our own endian, sort to speak. We do not send packets, but we send bytes over the network. For example, when we want to send a int64, we send first byte 1, then byte 2, and so on. So the byte order is ALWAYS 1 2 3 4. This way we know for sure that every client can join every server, as far as endianness is concerned." And how is that supposed
20:31:10  <TrueLight> Sjoerd_: desyncs are known, they only happen after having a server for a long long time
20:31:14  <TrueLight> so it is hard to trace them :(
20:31:26  *** lolman [~john@] has joined #openttd
20:31:42  <Sacro> OwenS: when does byte 0 get sent?
20:31:58  <Sjoerd_> lol saving and reloading map deleted all the passwords
20:32:07  <TrueLight> Sjoerd_: yup, known problem
20:32:23  <TrueLight> Sacro: it is an EXAMPLE for NON-programmers :p Dipshit...
20:32:40  <TrueLight> it is a wiki, so correct it to something better if you don't like it :p
20:32:52  *** Trenskow^ [~outlet@] has quit [Quit: Read error: Connection reset by sortepeer]
20:32:56  *** BJH2_ [] has joined #openttd
20:33:07  <OwenS> So, what do you do? htons/htonl/ntohl/ntohs?
20:33:26  <OwenS> And I like how you send only half of a Int64 :P
20:33:31  *** Tobin [] has joined #openttd
20:33:50  <TrueLight> OwenS: did I anywhere define how big 1 byte is?
20:34:20  <TrueLight> and did you read the text? No, you did not... htonl and his friends aren't used, as the text suggests :p
20:35:42  *** BJH2 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:35:43  <TrueLight> Sjoerd_: desyncs fixed for now?
20:37:01  <Sjoerd_> i think so
20:37:12  <TrueLight> good :) Sorry about the dirty trick
20:37:18  <TrueLight> but it seems to work most of the time :)
20:37:20  <Sjoerd_> but there were 6 people, now only me and one other person
20:37:25  <TrueLight> hehehehe
20:37:33  <OwenS> TrueLight: In that case, your obviously sending everything in host byte order :O
20:37:34  <Sjoerd_> so maybe when they all come back it starts again
20:37:36  <TrueLight> you should have said: say "Rejoin in a minute" :p
20:37:43  <TrueLight> Sjoerd_: let me know when it does
20:37:52  <TrueLight> OwenS: now that would be interesting
20:38:08  <TrueLight> OwenS: don't read the text as someone who knows about endian in-depth
20:38:11  <TrueLight> but read it global
20:38:16  <TrueLight> you will see it is correct
20:38:16  <Sjoerd_> i wonder what the reason behind it is?
20:38:19  <TrueLight> also codewise :p
20:38:20  <Sjoerd_> do you have any idea?
20:38:23  <TrueLight> Sjoerd_: the code isn't bugfree
20:38:27  <TrueLight> there is some bug somewhere
20:38:28  <TrueLight> hiding
20:38:30  <OwenS> TrueLight: So, you do the same as htonl/htons :P
20:38:35  <Sjoerd_> ah, ok
20:38:39  <TrueLight> and only becomes active after a long game
20:38:47  <TrueLight> OwenS: yes, in fact we do :)
20:38:48  <TrueLight> very good ;)
20:38:57  <OwenS> Little or big endian?
20:39:02  <Sjoerd_> so a solution could be to save/reload map every like few hours automatically?
20:39:03  <TrueLight> Only _we_ control it, instead of the kernel or what ever
20:39:10  <TrueLight> OwenS: guess? byteorder: 1 2 3 4
20:39:13  <TrueLight> what does it smell like?
20:39:16  <OwenS> Big
20:39:24  <TrueLight> Sjoerd_: a dirty trick, yes
20:39:38  <Sjoerd_> nothing more dirty then desync every time
20:39:55  <Sjoerd_> or maybe once every day :)
20:40:05  <TrueLight> OwenS: so what was your question?
20:40:11  <OwenS> Why does it feel like the net code was writen by a mac user? :P
20:40:13  *** Ammler [] has joined #openttd
20:40:21  <TrueLight> OwenS: and tnx :s I never touched a mac in my life
20:40:24  <TrueLight> and I hope to keep it that way
20:40:43  <OwenS> Only machines in mass circulation which use big endian are macs...
20:40:56  <TrueLight> so what if I made the order 4 2 3 1?
20:41:04  <TrueLight> how would you have classified it then?
20:41:09  <OwenS> Little endian, as used by x86 and other architectures
20:41:14  <Mucht>
20:41:16  <TrueLight> 4 2 3 1?
20:41:20  <pv2b> eh.
20:41:25  <TrueLight> (read CLOSELY)
20:41:27  <OwenS> Oh, I would have called that BastardEndian :P
20:41:29  <pv2b> the capsoff people are idiots.
20:41:35  <Tron> OwenS: the data gets send in network byte order because i wrote it that way
20:41:39  <TrueLight> So why are you trying to classify it in any way?
20:41:42  <pv2b> caps lock is a great key with its uses.
20:42:15  <TrueLight> OwenS: it in fact doesn't matter in what order it is send. As long as it is byte by byte, and the same on all systems
20:42:44  <OwenS> TrueLight: True; Although Little Endian is slightly faster on most (x86) systems
20:42:55  <OwenS> Not that it matters in networking code..
20:42:59  <TrueLight> OwenS: if that is true, it would be slower on macs :p
20:43:01  <Tron> OwenS: for a data rate <2k/s this doesn't matter
20:43:37  <OwenS> when the bottleneck is waiting on send/recv I was thinking of :P
20:44:14  *** sayno [] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
20:44:26  *** Osai^2 [] has joined #openttd
20:46:03  <TrueLight> OwenS: when that happens, we might need T3 lines for all clients in order to play OpenTTD :)
20:46:38  <TrueLight> OwenS: and if you were refering to the desyncs
20:46:43  * Sacro nips down the shops for a roll of T3
20:46:47  <TrueLight> remember that an OpenTTD desync isn't like a Half-Life desync
20:46:54  <TrueLight> it isn't because of a slow connection
20:47:02  <TrueLight> it is because something happened on the server, that didn't happen on the client
20:47:06  <TrueLight> or the other way around
20:47:24  <OwenS> TrueLight: No, I wasn't, I was refering to the factual innacuracy of the article :P
20:47:38  <Sacro> Server - SYN, Client - ACK <- oh noes, a difference
20:47:58  <TrueLight> OwenS: the arcticle is written to give people an idea of the code, not to be 100% correct in every word :) But feel free to correct :)
20:48:07  <TrueLight> Sacro: GAME-wise
20:48:10  <TrueLight> sigh...
20:48:13  <TrueLight> some people :p
20:48:23  <OwenS> Bjarni: !kick Sacro :P
20:48:30  <TrueLight> reminds me the protocol description is _very_ outdated
20:48:35  <TrueLight> it misses packets
20:48:36  *** Sacro [~Sacro@adsl-83-100-162-68.karoo.KCOM.COM] has left #openttd [kicked]
20:48:40  <TrueLight> and the params of a few are wrong
20:48:45  *** Sacro [~Sacro@adsl-83-100-162-68.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
20:48:50  <OwenS> Nice try sacro :P
20:48:51  <TrueLight> Sacro: :) I like you ;)
20:49:02  <Sacro> TrueLight: thanks! i aim to amuse
20:49:07  <TrueLight> I know you do :p
20:49:19  <Sacro> ooh, cracklib
20:49:35  <Sjoerd_> about the sync errors... Maybe it has been thought over... I have no idea what i'm talking about really :)
20:49:44  <OwenS> As a side note, i'm currently looking at a UDP protocol designed to work as fast as TCP without the overhead (For a start, lets kill those ACKs)
20:49:51  <Sjoerd_> but isn't it possible to fix things without disconnecting people?
20:50:00  *** Osai^2 is now known as Osai
20:50:10  <Sacro> OwenS: SYN, NULL?
20:50:19  <OwenS> ...
20:50:27  <TrueLight> Sjoerd_: currently, no
20:50:39  <OwenS> Connection establisment still exists, but instead of ACKing you just NAK
20:50:49  <TrueLight> Sjoerd_: if the errors happens, it means that really the game itself isn't the same anymore on all clients
20:51:00  <TrueLight> for example, vehicle1 is at 1x1 on client1, but on 10x200 at client2
20:51:05  <TrueLight> so it is a _real_ problem
20:51:16  <Sacro> you need synchronised drivers
20:51:21  <TrueLight> reforcing the server to reload the savegame and restoring the state of it all
20:51:24  <TrueLight> and doing the same for the clients
20:51:35  <TrueLight> is the only way the vehicle is on the same position for all clients again
20:51:36  <TrueLight> so to say
20:51:58  <TrueLight> my best guess is a buffer-overflow or something not getting saved... but that are indepth details :)
20:52:16  <TrueLight> OwenS: so you want OpenTTD to work with UDP instead of TCP? Have fun :p
20:52:18  <TrueLight> hahaha :)
20:52:28  <TrueLight> recreate a TCP-alike protocol over UDP... should be useful :)
20:52:28  <OwenS> Nah, this is just a low level protocol :P
20:52:40  <OwenS> Except, without ACKs which makes it faster
20:52:50  <TrueLight> sorry, it reminded me of a discussion I had when starting the redesign...
20:53:16  *** Dred_furst` is now known as Dred_furst
20:53:23  <Patrick`> the main reason multiplayer seems bad is that your actions don't have an effect unless the server says they do.
20:53:34  <Patrick`> which means "lay track, make coffee, see track appear"
20:53:43  <TrueLight> Patrick`: which is exactly the reason this game can play online ;)
20:53:50  <Patrick`> if you put in a staggering amount of work, you could make changes appear instantly
20:53:52  <Sjoerd_> TrueLight: about the saving/loading game with a script automatically
20:53:57  <Patrick`> and then rollback if the server says they are wrong
20:54:05  <Sjoerd_> Is there no way to preserve the passwords?
20:54:06  <TrueLight> Sjoerd_: I agree that a 'restartgame' should exist
20:54:07  <Patrick`> that would be a BIG hack though
20:54:11  <Sjoerd_> or it's not really an option
20:54:18  <TrueLight> Sjoerd_: ah, sorry, that was your question
20:54:19  <Sjoerd_> for public server
20:54:22  <TrueLight> that should be done, yes
20:54:36  <TrueLight> Patrick`: not possible because of the design of OpenTTD
20:54:41  <TrueLight> to give a bit more info on it:
20:54:45  <TrueLight> for OpenTTD it is _really_ important
20:54:51  <Patrick`> that's why I said it would take a lot of work
20:54:58  <TrueLight> that building track A on tile Y at frame X should really be done on frame X
20:54:58  <Patrick`> like, unreasonable amounts
20:55:03  <TrueLight> not on X - 1, not on X + 1
20:55:18  <TrueLight> the former network code allowed that
20:55:22  <Patrick`> ooh, here's an idea.
20:55:26  <TrueLight> the reason it was so unbelievable bad (you remember that? :))
20:55:32  <OwenS> Its somewhat like
20:55:33  <OwenS> [16 Sequence][8 CRC][8 Len][Len payload]
20:55:33  <OwenS> If CRC is bad, send a NAK with the sequence number. If a packet is missing, wait for 10 more, if still isn't there, send a NAK for it
20:55:34  <Patrick`> allow the client to blindly guess if it's right, and just drop it if it's not.
20:56:06  <Patrick`> that will go wrong if two people try to build on a tile at the same time though
20:56:26  <TrueLight> Patrick`: still won't work :)
20:56:30  <OwenS> Could just show the rail translucent though
20:56:39  <OwenS> Or whatever
20:56:44  <TrueLight> let me just repeat it: it is _very_ important that any command is executed at the _exact_ same frame for _all_ clients
20:56:48  <OwenS> Not count it, it's just a sprite
20:56:56  <TrueLight> OwenS: that _is_ an option :)
20:56:58  <Patrick`> ah, for all clients concurrently
20:57:03  <TrueLight> Patrick`: yes :)
20:57:21  <Patrick`> what owen said actually could work
20:57:22  <TrueLight> for building tracks it really won't be any real problem
20:57:23  <Gonozal_VIII> [22:50:49] <TrueLight> Sjoerd_: if the errors happens, it means that really the game itself isn't the same anymore on all clients [22:51:00] <TrueLight> for example, vehicle1 is at 1x1 on client1, but on 10x200 at client2 <-- wouldn't it be possible to override the clients differences with the data from the server to avoid such desyncs?
20:57:27  <Patrick`> and it'd be a clientside modification
20:57:44  <TrueLight> Gonozal_VIII: diffing data from the server and sending to the client has been reviewed multiple times
20:57:52  <OwenS> Gonozal_VIII: But imagine how much data would have to be checked/sent
20:57:55  <Patrick`> Gonozal_VIII: that works in fps's where you see other players stutter.
20:58:03  <TrueLight> the problem is that the size of that diff is around the bandwidth of a rejoin :p
20:58:06  <Patrick`> less so in a specific tile-based game
20:58:08  <OwenS> It would be faster just to download it again :P
20:58:20  <TrueLight> exactly what OwenS says :)
20:58:43  <TrueLight> but a console command like 'repoke', which saves the servergame, reloads it, and let the clients rejoin
20:58:51  <TrueLight> should in fact make it easier to bypass the problem
20:58:55  <TrueLight> no way it SOLVES the problem
20:59:03  <TrueLight> the problem I ahve with that solution: we won't get any desync reports anymore
20:59:09  <TrueLight> making us think: WE FIXED IT
20:59:15  <TrueLight> while in fact everyone bypasses the problem every time :p
20:59:19  <OwenS> Running load from the server console just caused me to be bumped to the load screen again last time
20:59:28  <Gonozal_VIII> we often had desyncs right after loading the game
20:59:41  <TrueLight> Gonozal_VIII: I would like to have those savegames right away
20:59:44  <OwenS> Gonozal_VIII: You using any new GRFs?
20:59:45  <TrueLight> if you can repeat desyncs
20:59:55  <TrueLight> of course with latest nightly and no newgrfs
21:00:01  <TrueLight> with reloading a map and having them within a game month
21:00:05  <TrueLight> send me the map ASAP
21:00:06  <Gonozal_VIII> many newgrfs..
21:00:13  <TrueLight> because those maps WILL help find the problems
21:00:13  <OwenS> Gonozal_VIII: usstatsw.grf?
21:00:20  <TrueLight> in fact, with newgrfs isn't a real problem
21:00:20  <Gonozal_VIII> yep
21:00:22  *** Ammler [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:00:25  <TrueLight> just you need to send me the grfs :p
21:00:27  <TrueLight> hehe
21:00:29  <OwenS> Thats caused desyncs for #openttdcoop previously
21:00:36  <OwenS> We have since removed it
21:00:47  <Sjoerd_> TrueLight: Sorry for bothering you again. Someone has (connection lost) now? Any idea's? (or are you bussy)
21:00:57  <TrueLight> Sjoerd_: slow connection, bad connection, ....
21:01:03  <TrueLight> that is a problem between client and server
21:01:04  <Gonozal_VIII> but also happens without that grf
21:01:06  <OwenS> Probably their side
21:01:08  <TrueLight> not openttd related (anyway, rarely :p)
21:01:15  <OwenS> Gonozal_VIII: Hmm, possibly some other GRF
21:01:27  <TrueLight> grfs are starting to be network safe
21:01:30  *** Belugas is now known as Belugas_Gone
21:01:33  <TrueLight> there are some minor desync problems with them
21:01:40  <TrueLight> but they are findable
21:01:41  <OwenS> <- Is the bug on it
21:01:42  <Sjoerd_> ok thanks TrueLight
21:01:53  <TrueLight> Sjoerd_: np
21:01:54  <OwenS> TrueLight: Like to append usstatsw.grf as a known trouble cuaser?
21:01:58  *** Ammler [] has joined #openttd
21:02:18  <Gonozal_VIII> sometimes we were not able to play on because of desyncs like every minute
21:02:21  <Belugas_Gone> Good bye all
21:02:33  <OwenS> Gonozal_VIII: I would guess it's some newstations pack
21:02:54  *** lolman [~john@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:02:56  <TrueLight> GoneWacko: I would like to see such a game :)
21:03:03  <TrueLight> but again, only if they are latest nightly
21:03:08  <OwenS> GoneWacko?
21:03:08  <TrueLight> GoneWacko = Gonozal_VIII
21:03:10  <OwenS> :P
21:03:11  <TrueLight> auto-tab :p
21:03:21  <Belugas_Gone> good weekend all
21:04:01  <TrueLight> OwenS: let me take a look... bug 250
21:04:14  *** JohnUK89 [~john@] has joined #openttd
21:04:15  <TrueLight> lack of savagame
21:04:18  <TrueLight> closing bugtrace :p
21:04:29  <OwenS> Platform type doesn't seem to be the cause of it, usstatsw.grf does though
21:04:37  <Gonozal_VIII> we'll try without any newstations... but they look cool
21:04:38  <TrueLight> I need
21:04:40  <TrueLight> a) savegame
21:04:42  <TrueLight> b) newgrf pack
21:04:44  <TrueLight> c) openttd.cfg
21:05:03  *** Sacro [~Sacro@adsl-83-100-162-68.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Quit:  HydraIRC -> <- The dawn of a new IRC era]
21:05:06  <OwenS> TrueLight: The chances of us reproducing it now are unlikely :( Since we no longer use said GRF...
21:05:11  <TrueLight> If I miss either a, b or c, I will be too lazy to reconstruct any of them :)
21:05:27  <TrueLight> OwenS: so get a game from the archive or what ever :p
21:05:31  <OwenS> Hmm
21:05:46  <OwenS> Ill get the game we noticed it in :P
21:05:51  <TrueLight> I want to help, but you have to help me too :)
21:07:15  <Darkvater> 22:26 <@TrueLight> Darkvater: reminds me, when will newgrf be saved in savegame?
21:07:17  <OwenS> Only thing is, how do I make the save able to reproduce it? :P
21:07:24  <Darkvater> peter1138 was working on that, almost finished I believe
21:07:25  <Gonozal_VIII> It would appear that these are only related to either stations under the "Platform" type or those serving passengers, as this has not happened in cargo-only games. <-- no platform, no passengers in our game
21:08:06  *** JohnUK89 is now known as lolman
21:08:09  <Gonozal_VIII> also it seems to be absolutely random
21:08:23  <OwenS> Yeah, that was an original hunch until we found it to be usstatsw.grf
21:08:25  <Gonozal_VIII> sometims it works for hours without any problems
21:08:29  <TrueLight> Darkvater: good :)
21:09:40  <OwenS> <lazy>Whats the default networj port?
21:09:58  <TrueLight> 3979 or something?
21:09:59  <Darkvater> people, peoeple
21:10:03  <Gonozal_VIII> things that seemed to directly cause desyncs were building railway bridges over water and trraffic jams on the mainline
21:10:05  <Darkvater> read the wiki please!
21:10:16  *** Tobin [] has quit [Quit: Tobin]
21:10:21  <TrueLight> Gonozal_VIII: so provide me with an a, b and c
21:10:46  <Gonozal_VIII> i don't have a, have to ask my friend for that
21:11:23  <TrueLight> even recreating one is fine by me :p
21:12:30  * OwenS takes none desyncing game
21:12:43  * OwenS makes it full of Toronto Union Stations :P
21:14:15  <Gonozal_VIII> first platform of that station looks kinda ugly with the flat grey roof
21:16:53  <TrueLight> !openttd port
21:17:11  <TrueLight> !openttd port
21:17:12  <Gonozal_VIII> and there are blue cubes when the station is more than 8 tiles long^^
21:17:12  <DorpsGek> OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP ports 3979 for server <-> client communication
21:17:14  <DorpsGek> OpenTTD uses UDP 3978 for masterserver (advsertise) communication (outbound)
21:18:11  <TrueLight> !openttd port
21:18:12  <DorpsGek> TrueLight: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication and UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advsertise) communication (outbound)
21:18:19  <TrueLight> :)
21:21:28  <TrueLight> okay, that will avoid that problem :p
21:21:57  <OwenS> Now hurry up and desync you game :P
21:22:13  <TrueLight> make sure you can reproduce it from a savegame within 1 game-month
21:22:16  <OwenS> <I never thought I would say that>
21:22:43  <Darkvater> good luck with that
21:22:46  <OwenS> Its more of a bug where it gets worse the longer you have the issue...
21:22:55  <Darkvater> I had a MP game running for more than a day and the damn thing wouldn't desync
21:23:06  <Gonozal_VIII> i'll try when the friend that runs the server is back from playing billard or something
21:23:32  <OwenS> Unless
21:23:39  <TrueLight> !openttd download
21:23:39  <DorpsGek> TrueLight:
21:23:59  <TrueLight> I always have the problem I can't get it to desync
21:23:59  <OwenS> It's possibly purely conicidental that the desyncs stopped when we wremoved usstatsw.grf because we restarted the server...
21:24:02  <TrueLight> it is something a user does :p
21:24:04  <Gonozal_VIII> that's part of the bug, it doesn't desync when you want it to^^
21:24:16  <TrueLight> OwenS: my point ;)
21:24:31  <TrueLight> OwenS: possible it was a user action?
21:24:57  <OwenS> Not when you desynced in less than a seccond ;)
21:25:04  <TrueLight> true
21:25:05  <Gonozal_VIII> desyncs sometimes without any actions
21:25:11  <TrueLight> also after a server reload (of that game)
21:25:29  <OwenS> This game brings back fond memories ^^
21:25:46  <TrueLight> do I have anything else useful to teach DorpsGek...
21:25:54  <orudge> Hey TrueLight
21:25:54  <TrueLight> yeah, SVN commits
21:25:55  <OwenS> !kick :P
21:25:58  <Patrick`> dorpadorpa muhammed jihad
21:26:28  <Gonozal_VIII> teach it to sync the miniin with trunk :-)
21:26:38  <OwenS> TrueLight: You will need to +o DorpsGek first :P
21:27:19  <TrueLight> Gonozal_VIII: lol
21:27:21  <Rubidium> Gonozal_VIII: could you show it how to do it?
21:27:32  *** egladil [] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
21:28:08  <OwenS> svn diff & svn patch, giving up and letting it be done manally if it fails? :P
21:29:34  <Rubidium> bad way to do it, but it cannot be tested until MiniIN has been synced as there are a few conflicts
21:31:21  <Rubidium> and it's probably not wise to do so either as conflicts are not rare
21:31:22  <Wombles> 07:26 < OwenS> TrueLight: You will need to +o DorpsGek first :P
21:31:22  <Wombles> 07:26 < OwenS> TrueLight: You will need to +o DorpsGek first :P
21:31:39  <TrueLight> echo
21:31:40  <TrueLight> echo
21:32:03  <Wombles> sorry about that spaz...
21:32:09  <OwenS> +o it and give it the !kick command :P Making sure it chekcs the targets not an op first, and if they are kicks the requester :P
21:35:09  <Patrick`> huh, so you're reimplementing a partial irc client in the console?
21:35:31  <OwenS> OMG
21:35:37  <OwenS> I think I just desynced ^^
21:35:44  <TrueLight> you _think_
21:35:46  <TrueLight> amuzing
21:35:53  <OwenS> I wasnt watching for the red dialog :P
21:35:54  <TrueLight> (both the fact that you in fact do, as that you are not sure you desynced :p)
21:36:00  <TrueLight> check server console :p
21:36:06  <Gonozal_VIII> sometimes there is no dialog
21:36:10  <TrueLight> there always is
21:36:11  <OwenS> I -f ed it :P
21:36:19  <TrueLight> but your input is important :)
21:38:03  <Gonozal_VIII> funny thing with the desyncs is, that you can scroll around on the mainscreen when right mouse button was pressed when the desync happened
21:38:11  <SpComb> use the --force!
21:38:38  <TrueLight> GoneWacko: known bug
21:38:55  <TrueLight> easy to solve btw
21:38:58  <OwenS> GoneWacko again........
21:39:06  <TrueLight> Gonozal_VIII: known bug
21:39:12  <TrueLight> very annoying, same first 3 letters
21:39:17  <TrueLight> CHANGE YOUR NAME
21:39:19  <TrueLight> sorry GoneWacko :)
21:39:29  <Gonozal_VIII> ^^
21:40:59  *** Zr40_ [] has joined #openttd
21:41:35  <Gonozal_VIII> a 7mb map desyncing every few minutes can be very... not good
21:41:45  *** Ammler [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:41:45  <TrueLight> hehe
21:41:49  <OwenS> Does restarting fix it?
21:42:08  <Gonozal_VIII> sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't
21:42:18  <Wolf01> 'night all
21:42:18  <OwenS> The time it doesn't, send TL your .sav
21:42:20  <TrueLight> and I truely only care about the latest :p
21:42:24  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: e ricordate, per la legge di avogadro non esiste cazzo quadro]
21:43:45  <Gonozal_VIII> miniin r5838?
21:43:52  <OwenS> Theres a huge hot blackthing on my lap....
21:44:08  <TrueLight> okay, only trunk games :p
21:44:14  <OwenS> Gonozal_VIII: They don't accept Mini-IN
21:44:38  <Gonozal_VIII> kk trunk then
21:45:31  <OwenS> As a side note, TL, does the signalling system make assumptions?
21:45:40  <TrueLight> OwenS: explain?
21:45:41  <Gonozal_VIII> had that desyncs in trunk too, so we should be able to reproduce it...
21:46:04  <OwenS> TrueLight: With the NAND patch NANDs can do funny stuff to signals in the block in front of them
21:47:07  <OwenS> Knowing the NAND code I wouldnt have thought it would have caused it; So it's possible it's an (unnoticed) bug in the signal engine
21:47:29  <TrueLight> the client does the same as the server at the same moment
21:47:33  <TrueLight> so as long as they do the same
21:47:35  <TrueLight> nothing can break it
21:47:38  *** Zr40 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:48:15  <OwenS> No, it's the same client and server, what i'm saying is that a NAND can cause signals in front of it to go red/green when their rules (and code) says they shouldn't
21:48:36  <Sjoerd_> TrueLight: Can I put your comments about sync errors on a forum where some people that play openttd come?
21:48:37  <OwenS> It seems related to the NAND being red that they go red
21:48:53  <TrueLight> Sjoerd_: sure, feel free.
21:49:02  <TrueLight> OwenS: I totally lost you :p
21:49:19  <OwenS> Ill make a diagram :)
21:49:23  <OwenS> Or picture even
21:49:29  <Sjoerd_> TrueLight: Ok so in short it's an unknown bug that shows up in long games?
21:49:44  <Sjoerd_> TrueLight: And it will be fixed as soon as it is found :) ? Right?
21:50:00  <TrueLight> Sjoerd_: yup :)
21:50:14  <OwenS> Oh, good, NAND has no con flicts with trunk :)
21:50:19  *** thgergo [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:50:20  <Sjoerd_> and what is your 'job' with openttd so i can give proper credits?
21:50:22  <Gonozal_VIII> and seems to have something to do with newstations...
21:50:41  <Sjoerd_> Programmer, network-guru, SVN, and website host
21:50:43  <Sjoerd_> nevermind
21:50:45  <TrueLight> Sjoerd_: eeuuh.. currently I am pretty unsure :p
21:50:49  <TrueLight> But yeah, that will do
21:51:05  <Sjoerd_> how does it feel to be a website host?
21:51:07  * OwenS waits patiently for GCC to do it's work...
21:51:11  <Sjoerd_> must be a hard job..
21:51:36  <OwenS> The hosting is easy; Doing it commercially it's the support which is hard
21:51:50  <TrueLight> OwenS: depends on the type of clients :)
21:52:05  <TrueLight> But of course it should have been something like: website hoster
21:52:09  <TrueLight> but for that we have Darkvater to blame :p
21:52:13  * Sjoerd_ feels out of place :(
21:52:50  <Sjoerd_> ok so we blame darkvater?
21:52:58  <Sjoerd_> he doesn't seem to be here
21:53:11  <OwenS> Bugger, something broke
21:53:15  <Sjoerd_> or is he in disguise?
21:55:30  <OwenS> Hmm
21:55:32  <OwenS> Thats strange
21:55:48  <OwenS> Nothing is different from previously in rail_cmd.c in my code blocks
21:55:55  <OwenS> But suddenly NAND has stopped working
21:56:12  <TrueLight> hehehehehehehe
21:56:29  <Gonozal_VIII> where do you use nand signals?
21:56:38  <OwenS> Complex stations etc
21:57:08  <Gonozal_VIII> could you show me a screenshot of such a station with nand in use please?
21:57:18  <OwenS> Not ATM
21:57:26  <OwenS> TrueLight: Ive got an example of the bug O.o
21:57:39  <TrueLight> good
21:57:41  <OwenS> It seems to be to do with 2 way combos
21:57:49  <OwenS> Which, is somewhat understandable
21:58:51  <Patrick`> you know the pathfinder bug that needed two-way exit signals at the entrance of stations? is that fixed or what?
22:00:30  <Gonozal_VIII> i only use two-way signals for waiting loops
22:00:53  <OwenS>
22:01:03  <OwenS> The PBS signals there are NAND signals BTW
22:01:05  <Patrick`> waiting ... loops?
22:01:10  <OwenS> I don't have graphics for them ;P
22:01:23  <Patrick`> sheesh owen, don't submit bugs with unsupported patches :P
22:01:30  <Gonozal_VIII> trains don't loose their speed in a loop :-)
22:01:41  <OwenS> Im saying this patch demonstrates an issue with the signaller...
22:02:11  <Patrick`> Gonozal_VIII: cunning, but you need a lot of land for realistic accn. curves
22:02:21  <Patrick`> AND it'll fail when there's more than a few trains in it
22:02:37  <Patrick`> personally I use other tricks to make sure a train never slows down before it hits platform.
22:02:38  <OwenS> TrueLight?
22:02:41  <Patrick`> "very wide stations".
22:02:56  <TrueLight> phone
22:03:00  <OwenS> Aah OK
22:03:10  <Patrick`> I'm not *that* refined a player, although I do think about it
22:04:17  <GoneWacko> woo
22:04:21  <GoneWacko> oh.
22:04:26  <GoneWacko> I thought i was popular
22:04:27  <GoneWacko> ;)
22:04:37  <GoneWacko> *slap TrueLight*
22:04:43  <GoneWacko> ha ha ha. ha ha.
22:04:43  <GoneWacko> ha.
22:04:53  <GoneWacko> (yes I'm bored)
22:05:02  <Gonozal_VIII> with miniin physics patch i make the circles 3 tiles diagonal, 2 tiles normal... that's big enough to keep some speed.. and a train hardly ever makes more then one circle in the loop it's just for the case when the line is blocked in the moment the train wants to enter it
22:05:29  <TrueLight> OwenS: how did we came from desync problems to NAND problems? :p
22:05:35  <OwenS> Dunno :P
22:05:52  <OwenS> This isn't really a NAND problem, it's a WTF signaller problem :P
22:06:25  <TrueLight> signaller sucks :p
22:06:32  <OwenS> Really? :P
22:06:43  <OwenS> Although I did think it was stupidly implemented
22:07:41  <Gonozal_VIII> btw.. why combos without any pre signals or exits?
22:07:54  <OwenS> Oh, it's just to demonstrate the problem
22:08:14  <OwenS> Exits there doesn't fix the screwy behaviour :P
22:08:33  *** lolman [~john@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:08:45  <TrueLight> signals should be revisted :)
22:08:48  <OwenS> :)
22:10:46  <OwenS> if (IsPresignalExit(tile) && HasSignalOnTrackdir(tile, ssd->bit[i])) {
22:10:46  <OwenS>   ex--;
22:10:46  <OwenS>   if (GetSignalStateByTrackdir(tile, ssd->bit[i]) != SIGNAL_STATE_RED) exfree--;
22:10:46  <OwenS> }
22:10:54  <OwenS> Seems to be at least part of the problem
22:12:00  *** lolman [~john@] has joined #openttd
22:12:10  <OwenS> But how to get rid of it.. Hmm
22:13:26  <OwenS> More questionably, why is it affecting those NAND signals
22:15:07  <OwenS> Unless
22:15:17  <OwenS> Combo signals count as 2 signals to other presignal entries
22:15:26  <OwenS> As such the NAND sees 2 signals, of which one must be red
22:15:31  <OwenS> Thusly goes green
22:16:21  *** TinoM| [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
22:16:45  *** Bengoz [] has quit []
22:17:37  <OwenS> Think i'm on the right track (pun unintended) here?
22:18:32  <Patrick`> Gonozal_VIII: sounds like a physics patch where people want what's convenient, not what's true
22:18:57  <Patrick`> I'm irritated by it on principle because it changes the entire way networks are built
22:19:03  <Patrick`> everything I do would fit into less space ...
22:19:17  *** john_ [~john@] has joined #openttd
22:19:23  <Patrick`> hmm, how to get miniIN patches seperately
22:19:26  <OwenS> TrueLight?
22:19:43  <TrueLight> OwenS: yes?
22:19:53  <OwenS> Think im on the right track (Look up)
22:20:09  *** lolman [~john@] has quit [Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by john_))]
22:20:09  <Gonozal_VIII> that circles also worked before the physics patch
22:20:12  <TrueLight> Don't overload me with stuff, I am just back from my holiday :p
22:20:12  *** john_ is now known as lolman
22:20:14  *** guru3 [~guru3@2002:51e7:e65f:1::1] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:20:17  <OwenS> Hah
22:20:30  <Gonozal_VIII> best with maglev
22:21:26  <OwenS> BTW, anyone think I should make an AND signal?
22:21:47  <Gonozal_VIII> i had even smaller circles back then with 3 only one free tile in the middle
22:21:54  <Gonozal_VIII> -3^^
22:22:12  <OwenS> How big are your trains?
22:22:28  <Gonozal_VIII> trains don't crash with themselves...
22:22:42  <OwenS> How many tiles?
22:22:53  <Gonozal_VIII> 14 most of them
22:23:09  <Gonozal_VIII> 7 tiles... 14 thing.. halftiles^^
22:24:33  *** Trenskow [] has joined #openttd
22:25:00  <Gonozal_VIII> the longest trains that i used were 64 (128) tiles long
22:25:07  <Trenskow> is there any documentation on the savegame/scenario format ?
22:26:31  <OwenS> So, do people want AND signals?
22:27:40  <Patrick`> you can just make 'em out of nand, trivially
22:27:48  <Patrick`> by putting a single nand at the output
22:27:50  <OwenS> Yes, but it requres unused track
22:27:54  <Patrick`> 1 tile.
22:28:03  <Patrick`> there are other gates that would be more useful to emulate first
22:28:08  <OwenS> Like?
22:28:12  <Patrick`> which require more nands to build
22:28:18  <OwenS> Like?
22:28:31  <Patrick`> xor.
22:28:53  <OwenS> But how often is XOR useful, vs AND...
22:29:02  <Patrick`> in fact, because a not gate is terse, you can make and/or/nor in very little space indeed
22:29:09  <OwenS> Have you ever encountered a railway situation which demanded XOR?
22:29:31  <Patrick`> make a 50:50 splitter that doesn't need a train as a clock
22:29:41  <Gonozal_VIII> i'm happy with the normal presignals as they are now, no use for and, nand or such
22:29:44  <OwenS> How does XOR help?
22:29:55  <ln->  <-- have you ever seen digital photos of worse quality than that?
22:29:55  <Patrick`> it doesn't
22:29:59  <OwenS> Gonozal_VIII: True, NAND and co are only really useful in huge networks
22:30:05  <Patrick`> but it's the only one that's not trivially small-ly makeable
22:30:07  <Patrick`> think about it
22:30:20  <OwenS> NAND has made a 50:50 splitter which doesn't need a train :P
22:30:31  <Patrick`> with a gate, say you have 2 tracks coming out a 4 degrees that represent the inputs
22:30:40  <OwenS>
22:30:41  <Patrick`> you can not each of those (with a nand signal) in half a tile
22:30:49  <Patrick`> rmemeber that density is much higher on diagonals
22:31:02  <Patrick`> and those tracks would be unused anyway unless you put a SHARP turn in the line
22:31:11  <Gonozal_VIII> yapf does 50:50 splitting by itself
22:31:14  <OwenS> The ones inside that balencer?
22:31:18  <OwenS> Gonozal_VIII: Not at this level
22:31:25  <Patrick`> Gonozal_VIII: ... what do you mean
22:31:30  *** egladil [] has joined #openttd
22:31:37  <OwenS> It only does it at a red signal
22:31:37  <Patrick`> like, for 2 ways to get to a station that are roughly the same path length?
22:31:39  <Gonozal_VIII> it looks for the state of the next x signals
22:31:44  <Patrick`> ah, see
22:31:50  <OwenS> Yes, in this case it may be futher down
22:31:54  <Patrick`> I have 2 paths to get to a station, one sliighly longer than the other
22:32:04  <Patrick`> and trains FUCKIN CRAM INTO the short one
22:32:05  <Patrick`> ahem.
22:32:09  <OwenS> Yep
22:32:24  <OwenS> Ive seen it even if it's just 5 DAMMNED TILES...
22:32:24  <WolfAngel> ... get sober traindrivers...
22:32:32  <Patrick`> yep.
22:32:36  <Gonozal_VIII> change the penalties in the cfg..
22:32:59  <OwenS> Remember, many large station exits are ~25 signals before you hit the mainline, as such YaPF balancing sucks there
22:33:00  <Patrick`> doesn't matter, they'll still be assymetric
22:33:27  <Gonozal_VIII> i don't care if its slightly assymetric as long as the trains flow
22:33:37  <Patrick`> no, they don't.
22:33:37  <OwenS> Becaus I here don't damn care that a signal is red; I care that a my load is perfectly balanced down both lines
22:33:47  <Patrick`> they all flow into the left trunk and cram it up
22:33:55  <Patrick`> ironically making it lower in density
22:34:08  *** lolman [~john@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:34:39  <Gonozal_VIII> make both lines exactly the same length :-)
22:34:41  <Patrick`> hey, do signals propogate through wrong one-ways ?
22:34:54  <OwenS> Not as far as I can tell
22:34:56  *** McWayne [] has quit [Quit: °ShowDowN v12 PrO° since 1996:]
22:35:00  <Patrick`> because you could use those to stop trains from going into your logic
22:35:11  <Patrick`> rather than relying on the quirk of signal transfer between rail types
22:35:12  <OwenS> I do somewhat :)
22:35:19  <Gonozal_VIII> i think it only checks valid paths
22:35:51  <Patrick`> I'm looking at the nandbalancer, it could be all maglev if the entrance nand on the left and the entrance combo on the right were facing the other way
22:36:42  <Patrick`> I would say the ideal thing would be to make an optional signal gui which allows you to select custom types
22:36:46  <OwenS> Rail helps identify whats logic and whats not
22:36:50  <Patrick`> and just have control-click cycle through the regulars
22:36:53  <OwenS> Patrick`: Like Mini-IN's
22:36:55  <OwenS> That would rock
22:37:07  <Patrick`> and not fifteen signals you'll only use once
22:37:22  <Patrick`> then, you could just go nuts
22:37:38  <Patrick`> have one image for "programmable signals", maybe set the colour of the dot or something
22:37:40  <OwenS> How about a patch (Enabled by default) which hides NAND, etcs?
22:37:42  <Patrick`> and make all the gates
22:37:57  <Patrick`> nand, nor, etc
22:38:00  <OwenS> For the time being
22:38:09  <OwenS> No can do; Not enough space in the map array
22:38:20  <Patrick`> ah, how many more
22:38:38  <Patrick`> or, make it "custom signal" and add your own sparse array lookup
22:38:48  <Patrick`> just brainstormin' here
22:38:53  <Patrick`> --> z
22:39:07  <Gonozal_VIII> yeah, put all the signals anybody can imagine into the game, make them optional and disabled by default..
22:39:35  <OwenS> Hidden, not disabled - Theres a difference
22:39:47  *** Peach [] has joined #openttd
22:41:04  <TrueLight> okay, night all :)
22:41:12  <OwenS> Night
22:41:14  <Gonozal_VIII> hidden = can't be build but existing ones still work?
22:41:16  <Gonozal_VIII> night
22:41:19  *** UE|sleepingtiem [] has quit [Quit: if at first you dont succeed, you fail.]
22:41:20  <OwenS> Gonozal_VIII: Yeah
22:41:29  <OwenS> Bjarni, you there?
22:41:48  <Peach> Am i the only one where the ore mine is visible when trees and all others are transparent?
22:42:10  <Gonozal_VIII> miniin?
22:42:14  <Peach> 0.4.8
22:43:01  <OwenS> No, everything is in the base sprite
22:43:10  <OwenS> So it happens for everyone
22:43:14  <OwenS> Bjarni? Orudge?
22:43:25  <orudge> Yes?
22:43:35  <OwenS> Anyone wanna fix the signaller?
22:43:41  <OwenS> It's kinda... Rotten to the core
22:44:34  *** UserErr0r [MiniUrban@] has joined #openttd
22:44:48  <OwenS> For example, when you have 2 way signals in a block, theyre counted as 2 it would appear (Hang on, /me adds printf to to check
22:48:40  <WolfAngel> good thing /me does that ^^
22:49:50  <OwenS> Or, no
22:50:01  <OwenS> It seems to make assumptions about what signals need updating :S
22:50:15  <WolfAngel> ^^
22:50:32  <OwenS> Seriously, that is bad
22:51:59  <WolfAngel> don't know you're talking about...
22:52:05  <WolfAngel> I'm just dumb...
22:53:38  *** Zr40_ [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:57:05  <OwenS> I guess Bjarni is asleep :(
22:58:14  *** ThePizzaKing [] has quit [Quit: -]
22:59:16  * Bjarni slaps OwenS
22:59:29  * orudge slaps OwenS too for having an evil name
22:59:30  <OwenS> Anyway, the signaller is broken..
22:59:42  <Bjarni> never presume anything without evidence
22:59:44  *** badut [] has joined #openttd
22:59:44  <OwenS> (As I told owen earlier)
22:59:53  <OwenS> I have evidence, and ive checked my code and I see no bug there
22:59:55  <OwenS> s
23:00:09  <OwenS> Woops, SFTP url XD
23:00:22  <OwenS>
23:01:04  *** ThePizzaKing [] has joined #openttd
23:01:10  <OwenS> It would appear that the signaller, in it's divine wisdom, assumes when it needs not update the signals on a block
23:02:10  <Bjarni> those are combo signals, right?
23:02:25  <OwenS> Yeah, except the NAND ones
23:02:39  <OwenS> And the same thing occurs with exits behind them
23:02:47  *** Dred_furst [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
23:02:52  <Bjarni> you are using the NAND signal patch?
23:03:00  <OwenS> That I wrote :P
23:03:13  <Bjarni> then I don't care. The patch broke the signals
23:03:25  <OwenS> How so?
23:03:53  <OwenS> I would say the signals broke the patch
23:04:37  <OwenS> In that signal layout, the NAND never gets questioned as to what state it wishes to be in
23:06:52  <OwenS> It would appear that there is a defect or assumption in the signaller, that has not been noticed previously because it doesn't affect combos, coming to light when the signals are asked to operate in ways they don't normally
23:07:55  <OwenS> If you would like me to fix this, where would I find said defect/assumption?
23:09:53  <OwenS> Bjarni?
23:11:43  <Bjarni> hmm
23:13:08  <Bjarni> let me put it this way. In real life, say you build a railroad. You build a bridge, that can handle locomotives with a max weight of 60 tons. 30 years later, somebody decides to use 90 tons engines, but the bridge fails and there is a huge accident.
23:13:11  <Bjarni> who is to blame
23:13:29  <OwenS> The person who didn't upgrade the bridge
23:13:38  <OwenS> Or didn't check it could handle the weight
23:13:45  <Sjoerd_> the person who didn't documentate
23:13:47  <Brianetta> "somebody decides to use..."  <-- that somebody
23:13:48  <OwenS> Although bridges are normally overspecced
23:13:50  <Sjoerd_> or didn't read documentation
23:13:51  <Bjarni> you for building a buggy bridge or the person, who decided on driving the way too heavy engine on a bridge, he didn't check for compatibility
23:14:21  <Brianetta> You don't run a locomotive over a bridge without knowing that the bridge can handle it.
23:14:27  <OwenS> I thought you were doing another american stupidity thing; Damn, it's an analogy...
23:15:13  <Bjarni> <OwenS>	Although bridges are normally overspecced <-- well. They had a whole lot of crashes in USA in the late 19th century. They had wooden bridges and the engines had doubled the weight since the bridges had been build, yet nobody checked the bridges and they considered it bad luck when a bridge failed
23:16:04  <OwenS> So, any help on fixing this bridge? :P (As the analogy goes)
23:16:07  <Brianetta> WTF use is a nand gate to a train anyway?
23:16:16  <OwenS> Complex signalling
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23:16:22  <OwenS> Im thinking of doing AND also :)
23:16:31  <pv2b> with NAND gates you can implement any logic
23:16:33  <Brianetta> You mean running tracks as communication lines only?
23:16:41  <Bjarni> Brianetta: I don't get why NAND signals is needed either
23:16:44  *** Trenskow [] has quit [Quit: Read error: Connection reset by sortepeer]
23:16:46  <OwenS> Yes, which is somewhat like #openttdcoop's prios
23:16:51  <Bjarni> *are
23:17:10  <Brianetta> OwenS: Those prios are so unlike anything that's ever been actually placed on the ground
23:17:27  <OwenS> True, they simulate communication lines/timetabling
23:17:46  <Brianetta> Fair enough, priority programmable signals, but let's not press presignals any further into a role for which they weren't designed
23:17:54  <Brianetta> timetabling?  no.
23:18:17  <OwenS> Interlocking, route reservation, stuff like that...
23:18:22  <Brianetta> Timetabling is when the train doesn't need to stop because it was sent at such a time that it wouldn't need to
23:19:27  <OwenS> I would like to do Lua programmable signals; Unfortionately I don't know where I would store the LUA
23:19:46  <Brianetta> In the NMA
23:19:46  <OwenS> Or how you would enter it for that mattter
23:19:51  <OwenS> NMA?
23:19:52  <Brianetta> with a new dialogue
23:20:12  <Brianetta> New Map Array (TM(TM)
23:20:19  <OwenS> Yeah, when it comes out
23:20:40  *** guru3 [~guru3@2002:51e7:e65f:1::1] has joined #openttd
23:20:45  <Brianetta> KUDr wanted a new PBS, but it needed a new pathfinder
23:20:46  <guru3> damn server acting up
23:20:47  <guru3> oh well
23:20:48  <guru3> good night
23:21:34  <OwenS> As much as I hate unrealism, there are places where we have to do it to emulate the way the real world works, or to get things to work better, or to just tell those damn trains what to do
23:22:51  <OwenS> So, any help fixing what we have at the moment? ...
23:24:20  *** badut [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
23:24:27  * Brianetta shakes his head
23:24:42  <OwenS> ?
23:25:20  <Peach> Does coopetition have an official site other than
23:25:33  <OwenS> Nope
23:25:43  <Brianetta> That's the official site
23:27:36  <Peach> Sounds like a nice idea, they are planning to make some kind of ladder system right?
23:27:44  <OwenS> I think so
23:29:33  <OwenS> WTF, why does OFTC have a #freenode....
23:30:56  *** Osai^2 [] has joined #openttd
23:36:27  *** Osai [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:37:11  <Brianetta> For the flammage
23:37:18  *** Rens2Sea [~Rens2Sea@] has quit []
23:37:19  <Brianetta> One goes there to rant, and tell lilo stories
23:37:34  <OwenS> Haha
23:38:00  <Brianetta> hmm
23:38:06  <Brianetta> /whois olilo
23:38:10  <Brianetta> he's on there
23:38:15  <OwenS> Who?
23:40:30  <lws1984> lilo?
23:40:41  <OwenS> Runs Freenode
23:40:57  <OwenS> Unaffectionally called Lilonet by some
23:41:14  <OwenS> Widely regarded as a roil idiot
23:41:24  <OwenS> royal**
23:42:49  *** Maedhros [] has quit [Quit: good night]
23:43:31  <OwenS> Brianetta: W.R.T NAND signalling systems, I would like to see "Signal pathway" tracks implemented. IE, a track type no trains can follow which is used exclusively for signals
23:45:37  <Brianetta> OwenS: I think they're too invasive.  Way too much abuse of space.
23:45:53  <Brianetta> It's OK on a coop or single player game where the land is your own
23:45:54  *** Subs0nic^ [~adsa@] has quit [Quit: "Treig And The Ræggers" :D]
23:46:05  <OwenS> Well, if we had NMA now I would implement programable signals instead
23:47:13  <OwenS> But we would need multiline edit blocks
23:49:16  <Brianetta> I don't think that level of complexity is warranted or desirtable
23:49:39  <OwenS> What level of complexity?
23:49:43  <Brianetta> Most people want their trains to go where they want, not to implement binary counters etc.
23:50:12  <OwenS> In that case they dont need it; I would add a patch option to show the more complex types, hidden by default
23:50:18  <Brianetta> PBS with presignals for terminals will probably be all anybody wants.
23:51:46  *** JohnUK89 [~john@] has joined #openttd
23:51:56  *** Zoiah [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:52:01  *** JohnUK89 is now known as lolman
23:52:34  <OwenS> Except people with really large networks, or space constraints who need something complex
23:52:59  <lolman> YAY Dual screen OTTD! ^_^
23:53:07  <OwenS> haha
23:53:23  <lolman> Just got it working :P
23:53:49  <lws1984> dual screen?
23:53:53  <lws1984> how?
23:53:58  <lolman> lws1984, yep...TwinView
23:54:10  <lws1984> on a computer? :p
23:54:16  <lolman> Yeah :P
23:54:40  <lws1984> hmmm. when I get my dualmonitor properly set up, I shall have to investigate
23:54:55  <lolman> It's brill :-D
23:54:55  <lws1984> I assume there's documentation?
23:55:12  <lolman> Erm, there's a howto for Ubuntu, but I dunno what OS you're on
23:55:22  <lolman> (and if Linux I dunno what distro)
23:55:32  <lws1984> Mac OS X
23:55:42  <lolman> Dunno then lol
23:55:57  *** Osai^2 is now known as Osai
23:56:04  <lws1984> well, how's it work?
23:56:22  <lolman> lws1984, it outputs to two screens at once and treats them as one
23:56:39  <lws1984> natrually, but what's involved in setting it up?
23:57:36  *** john_ [~john@] has joined #openttd
23:57:55  *** lolman [~john@] has quit [Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by john_))]
23:57:58  *** john_ is now known as lolman
23:59:01  <lolman> Apologies, what was the last thing I said?
23:59:25  <OwenS> [00:56:22] <lolman>lws1984, it outputs to two screens at once and treats them as one
23:59:43  <lolman> Ah, that's all I said before I realised I had been booted

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