Log for #openttd on 22nd August 2006:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:00:03  <Sacro> MeusH: <p style="font-align: center">
00:00:10  <MeusH> lol you're looking funny orudge
00:00:14  <Sacro> s/font/text :)(
00:00:21  * OwenS grunbles about Kopetes stupid UTF support (Or lack thereof)
00:00:37  *** glx [] has quit [Quit: Bye]
00:00:46  <Sacro> ??E®?¥??
00:00:48  <MeusH> thanks Sacro
00:01:30  * Sacro huggles his visibone stuff
00:01:40  <Sacro> now...Rechnungen
00:01:40  *** JohnUK89 [~john@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:01:47  <OwenS> No, actually, they came through fine, so I would suppose MIRC is sending UTF as ANSI... *grumbles*
00:02:31  <MeusH> qw?rty
00:02:40  <OwenS> Yes?
00:02:45  <Gonozal_VIII>  <table style="width: (100% - 790px)/2"> <-- what should this do?
00:02:46  <Sacro> Erklären Sie, was in Ihrer Miete umfaßt wird.
00:03:00  <Sacro> Gonozal_VIII: best not to ask
00:03:12  <MeusH> Gonozal_VIII: center a table column
00:03:14  <MeusH> s/table/td
00:03:18  <Gonozal_VIII> discribe what's included in your rent
00:03:50  <MeusH> Sacro, are you doing something illegal in Germany?
00:03:51  <Gonozal_VIII> center? center is center^^
00:04:03  <Gonozal_VIII> [01:49:25] <Sacro_> "Haushaltskosten" <- anyone?
00:04:03  <Gonozal_VIII> [01:49:42] <MeusH> Cost of house building
00:04:05  <Gonozal_VIII> wrong^^
00:04:11  <MeusH> yeah, I know
00:04:15  <MeusH> that was just a guess
00:04:31  <MeusH> "<Sacro_> bills :)"
00:04:37  <Sacro> MeusH: hard to tell...
00:04:59  <Gonozal_VIII> <-- in austria... we talk german here
00:05:11  <Sacro> <- in england, talks english
00:05:17  <Gonozal_VIII> :-)
00:06:11  <Sacro> doing a site translation
00:06:16  <Gonozal_VIII> ah
00:06:22  <Sacro> done it in english, now to copy paste in german, french and spanish
00:06:40  <Sacro> and maybe chinese, polish, russian, latvian depending on if we can get it translated
00:07:09  <MeusH> we can in polish :)
00:07:10  <Gonozal_VIII> chinese is a hard one
00:08:01  <Sacro> MeusH: well, err
00:08:12  <Sacro> is the german one
00:08:29  <Sacro> and thats the english
00:08:39  <Sacro> any other languages are welcome, we get a lot of polish tenants
00:08:51  <Gonozal_VIII> Gossen?
00:08:53  <MeusH> what's that, anyway?
00:08:58  <MeusH> whose sites are these?
00:09:55  <Gonozal_VIII> *rofl*
00:10:29  <MeusH> I g2g
00:10:33  <MeusH> Sacro: quick answer?
00:12:46  <MeusH> goodnight
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00:19:04  <Sacro> im slowly and slowly loosing the will to live
00:19:39  <Gonozal_VIII> why?
00:19:44  <Sacro> this laptop
00:19:47  <Sacro> have you not noticed...
00:20:02  <Sacro> err. and why my website has an "Ø" at the top
00:25:49  <lws1984> wøøt.
00:26:28  <OwenS> Sacro: You saved as a UTF-8 document but are serving it as ASCII
00:26:38  <Sacro> OwenS: eh?
00:27:27  <OwenS> A document saved as UTF-8, when served by the web server as ASCII, if it has a Unicode byte order mark (Much windows software does this; Linux software less so) it will be printed out as a 4 character sequence
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00:37:00  <Sacro> OwenS: errm, and how to fix it?
00:37:15  <OwenS> Sacro: Save as ASCII?
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00:41:01  <Sacro_> OwenS: is any better?
00:41:26  <OwenS> Looks nice :)
00:41:39  <Sacro_> thanks
00:41:49  <Sacro_> i got a better version locally
00:42:03  <Sacro_> im guessing if the page is in german, then i use xml-lang:de
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06:54:32  <MeusH> good morning
06:54:40  <Noldo> morning
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07:48:01  <Grizly> WoW
07:48:02  <Grizly> !!
07:48:04  <Grizly> hi there
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07:48:57  <Noldo> hi
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07:51:10  <Grizly> i have an idea how to play OTTD more fun (sorry for my English)
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08:15:39  <MeusH> hi Bjarni
08:16:01  <MeusH> Grizly, tell us about it
08:20:41  <Grizly> game must restart after every 1 or 2 hours
08:21:07  <Grizly> and who have more money/score/ or somthing else - win
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08:22:28  <Grizly> becose if play too long - game bother
08:22:28  <Grizly> :(
08:23:04  <Grizly> sorry for my Appaling english
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08:34:26  <JohnUK89> Morning :)
08:34:39  <blathijs> morning
08:35:37  <Grizly> mor-r-r-rning
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08:41:37  <MeusH> mornin JohnUK89
08:41:39  <MeusH> hello RichK67_wrk
08:41:48  <MeusH> Do you have some time to talk?
08:42:02  * JohnUK89 yawns...more sleep needed
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08:43:58  <RichK67_wrk> maybe - a bit
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08:52:06  <ln-> Grizly: the point ot TTD is to play long.
08:52:59  <MeusH> Grizly, the best part of game comes *after* said few hours
08:53:07  <MeusH> to have a big network and manage it
08:55:12  <Grizly> if play too long all players have unlimit money - and game lost sens
08:55:20  <ln-> and i don't see why you can't just pause the game after two hours and see who has the most money, if that's what you prefer.
08:56:12  <Grizly> i have an expirience of playing in network many days, and after 1-3 day people stop playing :(
08:56:19  <MeusH> Grizly, that's true that money in OpenTTD is way too unbalanced
08:56:24  <Grizly> so game must be short
08:56:24  <MeusH> but it may change...
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08:57:18  <Grizly> if play 1-2 hours - players must play more rapidly - it's maybe fun
08:58:07  <ln-> why can't you just agree with the other players that you play for 1-2 hours? why should the game enforce you to do so?
08:58:32  <MeusH> TBH my money runs out exacly after 1-2 hours, but I have quadruples of that money in 3rd hour :)
08:58:33  <Grizly> i cant find a partner for game :((
08:59:06  <MeusH> Polish?
08:59:19  <Grizly> Ukraine ;)
08:59:24  <MeusH> that's close
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08:59:35  <MeusH> we may play some time if you wish
08:59:39  <MeusH> and if I have time..
09:01:08  <Grizly>
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09:01:19  <Grizly> but it may be closed for not UAIX users
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09:45:40  <warer> I am looking at the code here, and i see that _video_driver->main_loop(); is called from ttd_main. This is a function pointer, but what function does it point to?
09:46:28  <warer> it is the GameLoop?
09:46:33  <warer> is it
09:46:34  <warer> :)
09:46:46  <Bjarni> well
09:46:52  <Bjarni> read the source :)
09:47:06  <Bjarni> I guess it's assigned pretty quickly
09:47:10  <glx> it points to the video driver main loop :)
09:47:17  <glx> check video/*.c
09:47:25  <glx> and driver.c
09:49:32  <warer> ok
09:49:52  <warer> Bjarni: the problem was that i didn't find where it was asigned.
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09:50:15  * Bjarni sends warer to school
09:50:28  <Bjarni> you just failed code reading class and you have to take it over
09:50:29  <Grizly> :D
09:50:46  <warer> funny :)
09:51:20  <peter1138> i am
09:51:24  <peter1138> absolutely
09:51:25  <peter1138> starving
09:51:39  <Bjarni> you moved to Africa?
09:51:54  <Bjarni> why didn't you tell us?
09:54:13  <Grizly> Starving-Marvin :)
09:55:49  <Grizly> i am starving too, cose i don't normal eat more then 30 hours
09:57:25  <TrueLight> <- updated, please do pay attention to it
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10:00:24  <jonty_comp> o
10:00:29  <jonty_comp> Oops
10:00:30  <jonty_comp> :/
10:00:36  <jonty_comp> Stupid XChat
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10:25:54  <Bjarni> bbl
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10:29:06  <Trenskow> oh oh
10:29:09  <Trenskow> the palette is moving
10:29:17  <Trenskow> i've just created a new grf file
10:29:26  <Trenskow> (not to be read as newgrf"
10:29:27  <Trenskow> )
10:29:33  <Trenskow> with flags
10:29:41  <Trenskow> and they are moving because of the palette :S
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11:13:26  <Trenskow> is the advertising server down ?
11:13:51  <Trenskow> it keeps on trying to advertise
11:13:57  <Trenskow> as server
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12:08:13  <roboboy> gnight
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12:15:58  <CIA-1> truelight * r6043 /trunk/ai/default/default.c: -Codechange: use wrapper if they are available
12:23:36  <Trenskow> where do i find the dedicated video driver ?
12:23:39  <Trenskow> the source
12:23:52  <Tron> video/
12:23:52  <glx> video/dedicated.c
12:24:26  <Trenskow> glx, thx
12:24:35  <TrueLight> video/dedicated_v.c
12:24:39  <TrueLight> ;)
12:25:18  <MeusH_away> nick MeusH
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12:28:04  <Trenskow> TrueLight, i'm looking for the code, where the dedicated server builds up it's ServerInfo struct
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12:29:00  <glx> it's not in video driver
12:29:22  <glx> look in network.c
12:30:17  <Trenskow> glx, thx
12:30:43  <glx> a dedicated server is like another server, except it doesn't display the game
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12:33:09  <Trenskow> bbl
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13:01:04  <izhirahider> I don't use music much when playing OpenTTD, I tried it now to test, but everytime I move the window to some place else, the music starts to get crackly and feels kind of delayed. Is this normal, or is there some setting I am missing?
13:01:54  <Faux> How could the music possibly be delayed?
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13:03:40  <izhirahider> the dragging gets laggy
13:03:48  <izhirahider> the music crackles
13:03:59  <izhirahider> ie, doesn't have the normal speed
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13:08:38  <Smoky555> hello from Russia :)
13:09:24  <eQualizer> Is there a forum post about the reason why this channel moved from Freenode to here?
13:09:48  <Eddi|zuHause> the long answer is "freenode sucks"
13:09:51  <stillunknown>
13:09:54  <stillunknown> If you want more information about why we moved, feel free to contact either Bjarni or TrueLight. They can explain the reason in great detail.
13:10:10  <stillunknown> but eddi gave the short anser
13:10:40  <ln-> it's also the long answer.
13:11:41  <TrueLight> hehe
13:11:48  <TrueLight> eQualizer: you don't post that on a forum
13:11:59  <TrueLight> because mostly they are personal problems (of OpentTD)
13:12:06  <TrueLight> we don't want to convert others
13:12:10  <TrueLight> to make them see freenode sucks
13:12:19  <TrueLight> Just isn't a nice thing to do
13:13:17  <ln-> eQualizer: see for example
13:14:05  <Smoky555> who can tell me, in what version of OpenTTD i can get this menus, dialog windows, etc.  -
13:14:40  <TrueLight> never saw that before in my life
13:15:17  <Smoky555> heh :)   Photoshop?
13:15:35  <eQualizer> Smoky555: NewGRF?
13:16:13  <Smoky555> eQualizer: this is NOT my screenshot.
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13:17:08  <Smoky555> may be TTDP ?
13:19:13  <eQualizer> TrueLight: What makes Freenode to suck so much that #openttd had to move?
13:19:58  <peter1138> who cares
13:20:42  <TrueLight> eQualizer: read the site if ln-, lilo is one big spammer who doesn't know what wallops is, lilo used a non-ssl connection to connect as OPER, which caused freenode to get 'hacked' (so I don't thrust the network anymore for his security), people got dropped randomly, even with Exceed Flooding messages, while they were idle, you could no longer tlak to people in PM without registering, ....
13:21:09  <TrueLight> all small reasons, but put together it was just enough
13:21:16  <TrueLight> but yeah, what peter1138 says :p
13:21:25  <peter1138> thrust :P
13:21:39  <TrueLight> small typo ;)
13:21:40  <stillunknown> you mean trust?
13:21:51  <TrueLight> really?!
13:22:09  <TrueLight> You should get a promotion for that smartness
13:22:10  <TrueLight> amazing...
13:22:15  <TrueLight> you figured it out on your own?
13:22:17  <TrueLight> or did you get help?
13:22:33  <peter1138> bah, i hate ebay
13:22:43  <peter1138> i hate having to decide how much i want to pay ;p
13:22:54  <TrueLight> hehe
13:23:12  <peter1138> i'm after a CME UF-8 again, i think
13:23:23  <TrueLight> what?
13:23:33  <peter1138> a keyboard
13:23:36  <TrueLight> ah
13:24:04  <peter1138> a lot of buy-it-nows for around £340
13:24:19  <stillunknown> TrueLight: 10 people helped me to figure that out, which is a lot, because normally i only need 8 people to make a decision or find something out (for normal situations)
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13:24:33  <TrueLight> stillunknown: glad we cleared that up
13:24:41  <MeusH> Smoky555, That's probably OpenTTD spinoff challenge 2, and the toolbar uses new graphics (photoshopped or somebody managed to put them in the game)
13:24:54  <stillunknown> i hope i put enough sarcasm into that :-)
13:25:10  <Smoky555> i want to ask about another thing... about bridges under diagonal rails ... when this will be available in OpenTTD ?
13:25:19  <Smoky555> MeusH: thanks
13:25:29  <peter1138> when it's finished
13:25:37  <Smoky555> yes
13:26:33  <stillunknown> i tried it and it seems less broken now (trains can now ride over each other in the same direction)
13:26:49  <peter1138> it's still not finished
13:27:40  <Smoky555> peter1138: :(
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13:52:27  <MeusH> stillunknown, how about opposite directions?
13:57:54  <CIA-1> miham * r6044 /trunk/lang/ (danish.txt french.txt hungarian.txt):
13:57:54  <CIA-1> WebTranslator2 update to 2006-08-22 15:57:27
13:57:54  <CIA-1> danish - 13 fixed by Bjarni (3), trenskow (10)
13:57:54  <CIA-1> french - 1 fixed by glx (1)
13:57:54  <CIA-1> hungarian - 1 fixed by miham (1)
13:58:07  <stillunknown> MeusH: don't remember if i tried
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14:19:04  <TrueLight> Suggested patch:
14:19:08  <TrueLight> This cleanups FOR_ALL loops, by never running it when the item isn't valid
14:19:08  <TrueLight> Also, replace all != 0 and == 0 with IsValidXXX where it should be
14:19:08  <TrueLight> This to prepare for the new pool system which needs both changes
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14:26:03  <Darkvater> *yawn*
14:26:13  <Darkvater> morning people
14:27:15  <hylje> morning? what morning??
14:27:33  <Faux> The one we get again before Darkvater gets one? ;)
14:27:35  <Gonozal_VIII> 16:27 morning :-)
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14:29:14  <Darkvater> Belugas: ping
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14:29:36  <Tron> TrueLight: does this consider the fact that the lists can have "holes"? i.e. index 0-22 are used, 23 is unused, 24-42 is used again
14:30:13  <TrueLight> Tron: that is exactly what it does :)
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14:32:10  <TrueLight> Tron: blathijs' patch can't even return 23 if it is unused. It unifies everything. I am trying to slowly commit that patch, but it is way too big to do it at once..
14:32:14  <TrueLight> this prepares for it a bit
14:32:33  <TrueLight> so FOR_ALL will now return 0 to 22, then 24 to 42
14:33:56  <Belugas> Darkvater : pong
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14:35:26  <Darkvater> Belugas: I had a look at the smallmap change, and realized the 'center here' icon doesn't depress. If it's done so that it does, it unclicks all other buttons as well. So just a suggestion to implement not only click_state but also anime_clicked_state or something; showing it's only temp
14:36:45  <Bjarni> bbl
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14:37:16  <Belugas> noted, Darkvater.  I'm trying to make a little more sens then that.  I think that clicks, as well as drawing, should not be held at this level, but higher
14:37:51  <Darkvater> didn't have concrete ideas, just so you know about it, might the need arise to implement
14:38:09  <Belugas> agreed and thanks :)
14:38:19  <peter1138> how about...
14:38:40  <peter1138> leave click_state as is, but rename it depressed_state (or something)
14:38:44  <CIA-1> rubidium * r6045 /trunk/ (97 files in 4 dirs): -Cleanup: align all table-like structures using spaces, i.e. whitespace fixes only except for a few comments to make them uniform for the whole enum/struct.
14:38:57  <peter1138> and then have a single value for the window that lists the index of the clicked widget, or -1
14:39:07  <peter1138> cos... only one widget can be clicked at a time, right?
14:39:16  <Darkvater> peter1138: click_state is obviously wrong, so that's a good start :)
14:39:23  <hylje> zomg, cleanup
14:39:23  <Darkvater> depends on the speed of your mouse
14:39:29  <TrueLight> 97 files, lol @ Rubidium :)
14:39:52  <Belugas> this is a bit what i have in mind :
14:40:01  <Darkvater> rubidum *r6046 /trunk/ (97 files in 4 dirs): -Cleanup: align switch statements
14:40:03  <Darkvater> ^^
14:40:28  <Belugas> as for the click, it should be held around that same area.  Standard button will raise after clicked
14:40:41  <Belugas> PushButton will raise once reclicked
14:41:01  <Belugas> Group Button will raise when another within that group is clicked
14:41:27  <peter1138> hmm
14:41:37  <Belugas> so, if it is handled in the event caler, no need anymore of those flags
14:41:42  <peter1138> so what happened to the c++ widget stuff... heh
14:41:46  <Belugas> the logic should not be there
14:41:46  <Darkvater> XTDTest is in need of some serious code-styling
14:42:06  <Belugas> Test does not mean merger ;)
14:42:32  <peter1138> nor does it mean sloppy coding style ;)
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14:44:00  <Belugas> yeah... well... i'm sloppy when my brain is working faster then my fingers, or that it is REALLY late at night ;)
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14:45:45  <TrueLight> Tron: you agree on the patch?
14:46:32  <Sacro> <Tron> Yes!
14:46:36  <SpComb> Logs:
14:46:36  <Sacro> !logs
14:46:43  <Tron_> -	FOR_ALL_VEHICLES(v) {
14:46:43  <Tron_> +	for (v = GetVehicle(0); v != NULL; v = (v->index + 1 < GetVehiclePoolSize()) ? GetVehicle(v->index + 1) : NULL) {
14:46:46  <Tron_> i don't like these
14:47:04  <glx> Sacro: do you want to be kicked again ? ;)
14:47:12  <Sacro> glx: hehe, no, not really
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14:49:29  <graphics_master> hi all
14:50:14  <Sacro> oh noes! *hides*
14:50:20  <graphics_master> ???
14:50:45  <Sacro> lol
14:50:54  <graphics_master> me confused
14:51:26  <graphics_master> any progress on Coopertition
14:51:38  <graphics_master> *coopition
14:51:50  <graphics_master> *coopetition
14:51:57  <graphics_master> finally got it right
14:53:44  <Sacro> lol, check the threa
14:53:45  <Sacro> d
14:53:50  <Mucht|work> erm graphics_master
14:53:56  <Mucht|work> you're probably in the wrong channel?
14:54:32  <TrueLight> Tron_: neither do I, but reload, I explained why they are needed
14:54:42  <TrueLight> (and that they are _very_ temporary, just needed for the transition)
14:55:08  *** MeusH_ is now known as MeusH
14:55:13  <TrueLight> Each pool needs 2 of those instance, in order to allocate items, and to prepare the pool. In the new pool that will all be come
14:55:14  <MeusH> Darkvater, ping
14:55:17  <TrueLight> come = gone
14:55:18  <TrueLight> hehe
14:55:26  <DjViper> nice typo
14:55:29  <DjViper> ;p
14:55:38  <peter1138> hmm
14:55:52  <peter1138> after moving stuff all weekend, lifting a server has knackered my shoulders
14:56:01  <TrueLight> poor peter1138
14:56:15  <peter1138> :(
14:56:19  <peter1138> actually it was only a case
14:56:26  <peter1138> but it's a supermicro case
14:56:36  <peter1138> i'm sure it started life as a tank
14:57:04  <glx> armed case?
14:57:21  <DjViper> lol
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14:58:14  <peter1138>
14:58:37  <peter1138> all those psu modules, fans, drive bays, and overengineered case...
14:58:45  <TrueLight> calling a 4U chassis supermicro
14:58:47  <TrueLight> is pretty funny
14:58:49  * DjViper is in love
14:58:52  <DjViper> nice case
14:59:00  <peter1138> it's very nice
15:00:04  <TrueLight> Tron_: other comments?
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15:02:12  <hylje> supermicro
15:02:12  <hylje> :E
15:02:47  <hylje> 4U and only a dual xeon
15:03:20  <hylje> if one xeon fits into a 1U, why get a 4U instead of two 2Us
15:04:05  <MeusH> to tell someone "you've got only 2Us, I've got 4 and I own you"
15:04:12  <MeusH> or to make space for additional xeons
15:04:18  <MeusH> and what are these xeons by the way?
15:04:21  <MeusH> :)
15:04:39  <hylje> intels server and workstation chips
15:04:54  <hylje> (some cheaper brands sold non-xeons for workstations though, those are not to be trusted)
15:08:56  * Darkvater heals peter1138
15:08:57  <Darkvater> MeusH: pong
15:09:26  <Tron_> TrueLight: mark the comments with TODO and i'm fine
15:09:34  <TrueLight> good idea
15:10:18  <Tron_> it's just easier to find them, some editors even highlight TODOs, FIXMEs, ...
15:10:23  <TrueLight> mine does :)
15:10:39  <TrueLight> I am only this busy with this, that I already marked it as TODO in my mind ;)
15:10:39  <TrueLight> hehe
15:11:18  <Brianetta> 4U is good for lots of hard drives
15:11:24  <Brianetta> and for cooliong down
15:11:56  <ln->
15:12:16  <Sacro> ln-: 404
15:12:49  <ln-> Sacro: 200
15:13:04  <Sacro> ?
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15:14:44  <TrueLight> Coding style question: free(p); of: if (p != NULL) free(p);
15:15:04  <Tron_> the former
15:15:12  <Darkvater> free(p)
15:15:14  <Tron_> the latter is redundantly redundant
15:15:45  <Tron_> (same goes for delete)
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15:16:06  <TrueLight> do we ever use delete? :)
15:16:11  <ln-> is Sacro the only one form who the url above does not work?
15:16:20  <glx> TrueLight: maybe in yapf :)
15:16:23  <TrueLight> true
15:16:28  <TrueLight> I never checked YAPF
15:16:30  <TrueLight> hope to never do it too
15:16:40  <Sacro> ln-: dunno :(
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15:19:45  <TrueLight> I feel so sorry for RichK
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15:21:22  <hylje> i figure
15:23:27  <CIA-1> belugas * r6046 /trunk/ (11 files):
15:23:27  <CIA-1> CodeChange : Rename WWT_5 Widget type to WWT_LABEL : a centered label
15:23:27  <CIA-1> CodeChange : Move almost all fixed strings from ON_PAINT event to Widget array using WWT_LABEL.
15:23:27  <CIA-1> Feature : All "Select Refit Cargo" are now centered, instead of been left aligned
15:24:17  <TrueLight> Belugas' commit  holded down my commit
15:24:17  <TrueLight> lol
15:24:42  <hylje> svn doesnt like it when you skip revisions?
15:24:50  <Darkvater> holded down?
15:24:55  <Darkvater> wtf of gay english is that
15:25:11  <TrueLight> Darkvater: as gay as you are
15:25:17  <hylje> held down imho
15:25:27  <TrueLight> most likely :p
15:25:31  <TrueLight> but Belugas changed files I change too :)
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15:25:41  <TrueLight> segfault
15:25:42  <TrueLight> hmm
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15:26:07  <hylje> eh
15:26:17  <TrueLight> Darkvater: oh, haha
15:27:07  * TrueLight slaps Darkvater REALLY hard
15:27:14  <TrueLight> [16:32:42] <Darkvater> INVALID_TILE hebben we al, en is 0 ;)
15:27:16  <TrueLight> so UNTRUE
15:27:23  <TrueLight> so VERY VERY untrue :(
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15:27:41  <hylje> i prefer "so VERY VERY *NOT* TRUE"
15:27:51  <TrueLight> What hylje says
15:28:22  <Darkvater> MSVC says it's 0
15:28:23  <hylje> its good to know some tricks for emphasize stuff
15:28:28  <TrueLight> Darkvater: and the C code says it is -1
15:28:32  <TrueLight> so then MSVC is broken
15:28:36  <Darkvater> what the?
15:28:38  <Darkvater> gaah
15:28:41  * Darkvater kicks msvc
15:28:52  <MeusH> no such nick or channel
15:28:52  <TrueLight> INVALID_TILE = (TileIndex)-1
15:28:53  <MeusH> :o
15:29:01  <hylje> or was that s/emphasize/emphatise/
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15:29:18  <Darkvater> enum __unnamed_9ff62027_1::INVALID_TILE = 0
15:29:22  <Darkvater> o_O
15:29:28  <TrueLight> so use a _real_ editor
15:29:38  <TrueLight> yet-another-reason-why-not-to-use-MSVC :)
15:29:43  <TrueLight> but okay, not your fault, so I hug Darkvater :)
15:29:52  <hylje> microsofty stuff tends to edit things behind the scene
15:29:59  <hylje> examples: office, IE
15:30:14  <MeusH> examples: IP settings
15:30:28  <hylje> and of course windows
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15:30:32  <hylje> the biggest WTF of them all
15:31:23  <TrueLight> Darkvater: maybe we should rewrite all 0 values with INVALID_TILE
15:31:25  <TrueLight> in those cases
15:31:31  <TrueLight> to get a more uniform code
15:31:38  <Darkvater> probably not
15:31:43  <Darkvater> st->xy is 0 not invalid tile
15:31:47  <Darkvater> fttb
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15:32:06  <TrueLight> Darkvater talks giberish
15:32:10  <TrueLight> anyone has a translator for me?
15:32:14  * Darkvater can't figure out how simutrans works
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15:32:20  <Darkvater> why is it so complicated?
15:32:24  <Darkvater> can't even start a damn train :O
15:32:31  <hylje> they forgot KISS
15:32:49  <TrueLight> Darkvater: but what would be wrong if we started to use -1 as invalid tile?
15:32:51  <TrueLight> instead of 0?
15:32:52  <Darkvater> it really makes no sense
15:32:54  <MeusH> Darkvater: some time ago (a year?) you've been working on a patch that allows various height levels on the edge tiles
15:33:05  <MeusH> how's it? probably waay too outdated
15:33:06  <Darkvater> I was?
15:33:19  <MeusH> I think so
15:33:25  <TrueLight> Darkvater: just saying that really doesn't make it more clear or anything... some kind of argument is really wanted
15:33:35  <Darkvater> 0 and -1 are not the same
15:33:38  <CIA-1> truelight * r6047 /trunk/ (38 files in 3 dirs):
15:33:38  <CIA-1> -Codechange: FOR_ALL now _only_ loops valid items, and skips invalid ones
15:33:38  <CIA-1> -Codechange: use IsValidXXX where ever possible
15:33:38  <CIA-1>  Note: both changes to prepare for new pool system, which needs those changes.
15:33:38  <CIA-1>  For every pool there are 2 ugly lines, which will be removed when done
15:33:39  <CIA-1>  implementing new pool system.
15:33:39  <CIA-1>  Based on FS#13 by blathijs, partly implemented.
15:33:39  <Darkvater> that's all I'm saying
15:33:40  <TrueLight> really?! :)
15:33:46  <TrueLight> but what is wrong with changing 0 to -1?
15:33:53  <TrueLight> using -1 as invalid tile
15:33:53  <MeusH> I saw a screenshot with an OpenTTD main menu and whole map grassy, even the border tiles
15:33:56  <TrueLight> is more logic then using 0
15:34:09  <Darkvater> wasn't me
15:34:29  <MeusH> allright, seems I confused you guys
15:34:30  <MeusH> sorry
15:34:31  <Bjarni> back
15:34:40  <Bjarni> this time I think I will stay online
15:34:49  <hylje> r u sure?
15:34:52  <Bjarni> yeah
15:35:12  <Bjarni> I need more spare parts before I can resume my work on the power cables
15:35:21  <Bjarni> and the shops just closed
15:35:35  <hylje> so meanwhile code power lines for ottd
15:37:25  <Tron_> <TrueLight> Darkvater: but what would be wrong if we started to use -1 as invalid tile? <--- grep INVALID_TILE map.h
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15:38:01  <hylje> in my mind power lines would make a nice prop and immovable type ;>
15:38:14  <TrueLight> Tron_: your point?
15:38:26  <Tron_> it's already there
15:38:28  <TrueLight> Tron_: I was aiming at the st->xy == 0, making that st->xy == INVALID_TILE
15:38:38  <TrueLight> now '0' is used for a lot of ->xy as INVALID_TILE
15:38:42  <TrueLight> while -1 makes more sense
15:39:26  <CIA-1> truelight * r6048 /trunk/ (depot.c depot.h misc.c): -Codechange: all InitializeXXX are plural, just not Depot
15:40:00  <TrueLight> +#define MAX_VALUE(type) ((((uint64)1) << sizeof(type) * CHAR_BIT) - 1)
15:40:06  <TrueLight> can someone confirm the function of that macro?
15:41:17  <Darkvater> returns the maximum value a type can have
15:41:23  <Darkvater> MAX_VALUE(byte) returns 255
15:41:32  <TrueLight> I mean, is the macro correct for sure :)
15:41:35  <TrueLight> I am bad at those things
15:41:40  <Darkvater> tron wrote it :)
15:41:56  <TrueLight> -#define MAX_UVALUE(type) ((type)~(type)0) <- that was the old one
15:42:02  <TrueLight> Bbl, dinner
15:43:26  <Tron_> TrueLight: what exactly is better about yours?
15:45:34  *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-83-100-224-218.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
15:47:42  <Tron_> except yours has undefined behavior at MAX_VALUE(uint64) and mine doesn't
15:49:49  <Eddi|zuHause2> isn't it defined to overflow?
15:50:25  <Tron_> Eddi|zuHause2: shifting left or right more or equal the width of a data type causes undefined behavior
15:50:58  <Eddi|zuHause2> ah... the shifting, not the substracting...
15:52:07  <Eddi|zuHause2> and why is that not defined to produce 0?
15:52:20  <Tron_> hardware
15:52:24  <Tron_> simple as that
15:52:45  <Tron_> some hardware has 0 as result
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15:53:14  <Tron_> other hardware (like the practically all todays processors) shifts by the modulo of the size of the type
15:53:24  <Tron_> i.e. 64 mod 64 == 0 -> does nothing
15:53:40  <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah
15:53:49  <Eddi|zuHause2> that is even understandable ;)
15:54:08  <Tron_> the simple reason is you use multiplexers to implement shifting and not a shift register
15:54:19  <Tron_> you want to shift in O(1) not in O(n)
15:54:25  <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, of course
15:54:47  <Eddi|zuHause2> you just hard-wire all possible permutations
15:55:02  <Tron_> (in fact the 8086 used a shift register, the shift command took time proportional to the number of shifted bits and the result for shifting > word length was indeed 0)
15:55:07  <Eddi|zuHause2> optimizing speed against chip size
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15:56:30  <Patrick`> in other news, when did I drop off and with what message?
15:56:47  <SpComb> Logs:
15:56:47  <Eddi|zuHause2> !logs
15:56:50  <blathijs> 19:19 -!- Patrick` [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:57:37  <Patrick`> damn
15:57:59  <hylje> o no
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15:59:24  <TrueLight> Tron_: I wasn't talking about mine and yours, I was asking about the current one, and the one I found in this patch :)
16:00:05  <TrueLight> but okay, ((((uint64)1) << sizeof(type) * CHAR_BIT) - 1) is safer I get from this :)
16:00:07  <Tron_> which patch?
16:00:11  <TrueLight> mempools
16:00:12  <blathijs> my patch
16:00:15  <blathijs> mempools
16:00:23  <Tron_> <TrueLight> but okay, ((((uint64)1) << sizeof(type) * CHAR_BIT) - 1) is safer I get from this :) <--- ?
16:00:27  <Tron_> is safer what?
16:00:31  <TrueLight> okay
16:00:42  <TrueLight> 1) #define MAX_UVALUE(type) ((type)~(type)0)
16:00:42  <TrueLight> 2) #define MAX_VALUE(type) ((((uint64)1) << sizeof(type) * CHAR_BIT) - 1)
16:00:42  <TrueLight> Which one to use?
16:00:42  <blathijs> I think the original one is safer?
16:00:57  <Tron_> to make it short: mine has less edge cases
16:01:02  <TrueLight> define 'mine'
16:01:13  <blathijs> mine (the new one) is pretty complicated, but I can't figure out why
16:01:20  <TrueLight> (I mean, how on earth should I know what is yours? :))
16:01:20  <blathijs> orginal is Tron's
16:01:28  <Tron_> MAX_UVALUE(type) ((type)~(type)0) <--- mine
16:01:29  <TrueLight> ah, that clears it up already :)
16:01:35  <TrueLight> so, we use 1)
16:01:36  <TrueLight> thank you
16:01:52  <blathijs> I can't remember why I wrote 2). Possibly 1) wasn't there when I started...
16:01:55  <Tron_> it works ONLY for unsigned types
16:02:01  <Tron_> (that applies to both macros)
16:02:02  <TrueLight> blathijs: there wasn't, added some revisions ago
16:02:02  <blathijs> that might be it :-)
16:02:26  * blathijs is off for food
16:02:29  <TrueLight> eet ze
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16:03:13  <TrueLight> _total_towns needs a rename... GetNumTownsUsed().. other suggestions?
16:03:18  *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-83-100-224-218.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
16:03:26  <Patrick`> GetTotalTowns()
16:03:31  <Tron_> drop the Used
16:03:34  <Patrick`> GetNumOfTowns()
16:03:40  <TrueLight> TrueLight: there is a Used and Free
16:03:47  <TrueLight> Tron_: there is a Used and Free
16:03:53  <Patrick`> numtownsuser works, then
16:04:07  <Patrick`> talking to yourself is a sign of senile dementia
16:04:37  <Eddi|zuHause2> damn! :p
16:04:51  <TrueLight> so I should rephrase: other suggestions for GetNumTownsUsed() GetNumTownsFree()?
16:08:15  <Tron_> Rubidium: btw: /// is a doxygen comment
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16:08:40  <Tron_> or rather was ...
16:08:46  <TrueLight> it always will be :)
16:09:45  <Tron_> TrueLight: Rubidium killed quite some
16:10:19  <TrueLight> it was inconsistent
16:10:29  <TrueLight> I remember in network.h that 1 block had ///, the other 2 didn't
16:13:03  <TrueLight> typedef uint16 EngineID; ///< All enginenumbers should be of this type <- some comments keep on suprising me
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16:14:35  <Kjetil> haha
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16:15:07  <exe> whats wrong with that?
16:15:27  <Eddi|zuHause2> i'd say it's too obvious...
16:15:38  <TrueLight> :) Eddi|zuHause2 guessed right ;)
16:15:42  <TrueLight> like saying:
16:16:06  <TrueLight> bah, kvirc stole my text :p
16:16:21  <TrueLight> ./* Checking if foo is true */
16:16:21  <TrueLight> if (foo) {
16:16:21  <TrueLight> }
16:16:54  <exe> it would be great to have all datatypes and functions commented at least in that way to use with intellisense
16:19:03  <Patrick`> hah!
16:19:42  <TrueLight> What is a better name: Sign or SignStruct?
16:20:09  <OwenS> Sign
16:20:15  <Trenskow> agree
16:20:24  <OwenS> SignStruct is just duplication of what code completion should tell you
16:21:46  <Bjarni> 	<TrueLight>	typedef uint16 EngineID; ///< All enginenumbers should be of this type <- some comments keep on suprising me <-- reminds me of "if (HASBIT(var,1)) { // do this if bit 1 of var is set
16:22:09  <CIA-1> truelight * r6049 /trunk/ (engine.c engine.h openttd.h station_cmd.c):
16:22:09  <CIA-1> -Codechange: forgot EngineRenew in r6047
16:22:09  <CIA-1> -Codechange: cleaned up the EngineRenew code a bit (coding style mostly)
16:22:09  <CIA-1> -Codechange: forgot the correct comment in station_cmd
16:22:09  <CIA-1> -Codechange: move pool-stuff to engine.h, like we always do
16:22:10  <Bjarni> or at least something like that. It was at that level
16:22:51  <TrueLight> I wonder why it is called SignStruct in the first place
16:22:53  <peter1138> Bjarni: the autoreplace gui used to not use engine id :P
16:22:54  <TrueLight> (currently it is a mixed)
16:23:26  <peter1138> it used uint16 and -1s
16:23:40  <Bjarni> I never wrote that o_O
16:23:41  <peter1138> confused me until i realised it should be EngineID and INVALID_ENGINE
16:23:57  <Bjarni> oh wait
16:24:06  <Bjarni> the counter thing?
16:24:28  <peter1138> can't remember where
16:25:07  <Bjarni> well, I might have used it in a loop to count the vehicles... I wrote that before EngineID was introduced
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16:33:18  <TrueLight>
16:33:20  <TrueLight> comments?
16:35:30  <blathijs> TrueLight: looks good at first glance
16:35:58  <TrueLight> in detail it is correct, but the first glance is what I wonder about :)
16:36:01  <TrueLight> ;)
16:36:06  <TrueLight> For sure your patch now no longer applies :)
16:36:52  <blathijs> :-)
16:37:10  <TrueLight> VARDEF uint16 *_sign_sort;
16:37:13  <TrueLight> _sign_sort = realloc(_sign_sort, GetSignPoolSize() * sizeof(_sign_sort[0]));
16:37:14  <TrueLight> oh wait
16:37:15  <TrueLight> a *
16:37:17  <TrueLight> nevermind :)
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16:38:53  <CIA-1> truelight * r6050 /trunk/ (8 files): -Codechange: mass-renamed SignStruct -> Sign and ss -> si. Now functions and variables all match eachother
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16:59:53  <CIA-1> truelight * r6051 /trunk/order_cmd.c: -Fix r6047: forgot many times a ! :(
16:59:55  <Jucciz>
16:59:57  <Jucciz> oops
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17:04:48  <MaulingMonkey> Yay, now I get to figure out how to deal with a conflict!
17:05:16  <Wolf01> hi
17:05:24  <blathijs> MaulingMonkey: just one?
17:05:42  <glx> lucky guy :)
17:05:43  <MaulingMonkey> blathijs: Totally minor, just my screen resolution customization
17:05:47  *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-83-100-224-218.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:06:02  <MaulingMonkey> My still uncommited bugfix has no conflicts still :)
17:06:57  <blathijs> :-)
17:07:01  <blathijs> what does it fix?
17:07:38  <TrueLight> <- comments?
17:07:41  <MaulingMonkey> Combining load orders with feeders at a station accepting the cargo, so the loading train does not immediately unload it's cargo for a profit
17:08:15  <blathijs> MaulingMonkey: hmm, dunno about that...
17:08:41  <MaulingMonkey> blathijs: It dosn't affect the first tick at the station, so the train will still unload it's original cargo
17:09:36  <MaulingMonkey> The patch is only 945 bytes :P
17:11:19  <Patrick`> it fixes a gameplay issue you have because your layout is bad :P
17:11:44  <MaulingMonkey> Patrick`: It's not bad when the "cargo" is passengers.
17:12:17  <Patrick`> so if you arrive with a forced-load on passengers, and a half full train of passengers, you don't sell what you have?
17:12:30  <MaulingMonkey> No, you do sell what you do have.
17:12:32  <Patrick`> I didn't think forced-loading permitted selling
17:12:40  <Patrick`> oh, is that what your patch fixes?
17:12:42  <MaulingMonkey> It does.
17:12:43  <MaulingMonkey> Yes.
17:12:51  <Patrick`> post about it on the forums
17:12:52  <MaulingMonkey> It will not sell them with load + transfer
17:12:54  <MaulingMonkey> I did
17:12:57  <Patrick`> it sounds like it might "break" some things
17:13:02  <MaulingMonkey>
17:13:04  <MaulingMonkey>
17:13:08  <Patrick`> you're adding an extra order type?
17:13:30  <MaulingMonkey> No, I'm doing current_order |= OF_TRANSFER after the first tick.
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17:13:47  <MaulingMonkey> A bit hackerish, but it seems to have no ill effects after playing the game for the past few days with this patch.
17:13:51  <CIA-1> truelight * r6052 /trunk/ (10 files):
17:13:51  <CIA-1> -Codechange: change OrderType (order->type) in a typedef
17:13:51  <CIA-1> -Codechange: renamed DeleteDestinationFromVehicleOrder to RemoveOrderFromAllVehicles to reflect his function better
17:13:51  <CIA-1> -Codechange: changed the params of RemoveOrderFromAllVehicles, to avoid unneeded variable-creation
17:14:07  <Patrick`> hmm
17:14:31  <DjViper> hmm did the wiki just die?
17:14:42  <MaulingMonkey> just died it seems
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17:16:44  <glx> same server
17:17:09  <TrueLight> Confirmed, checking...
17:18:51  <MaulingMonkey> There was also a wonk conditional in the unload code.  It was force-transfer-unloading if Unload OR Transfer was set.
17:19:17  <MaulingMonkey> Which meant a lot of transfer spam if you did Load + Transfer.
17:19:23  <TrueLight> the whole network seems to be done... so we have to do it without part of the OpenTTD network for a while ;)
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17:19:36  <DjViper> !!
17:19:42  <hylje> :o
17:19:51  <TrueLight> (wiki, translator and bugs)
17:20:57  *** MiHaMiX [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:21:05  <TrueLight> bye MiHaMiX :)
17:21:11  <TrueLight> when he joins, it is working again, okay? :)
17:21:26  <DjViper> heh
17:21:56  <grimrc1> knows about the wiki then?
17:22:18  <DjViper> yes
17:22:34  <lws|Away> hmm... if the wiki's down.. what's the Mac OS keyboard command for fullscreen?
17:23:04  <MaulingMonkey> I'd assume Apple+Enter
17:23:10  <MaulingMonkey> I can double check in a moment if you'd like
17:23:15  <blathijs> hmm, wtf
17:23:32  <blathijs> why does tracerout to stop after the first hop? :-S
17:23:54  <TrueLight> blathijs: I had the same problem yes
17:24:03  <glx> network outage
17:24:04  <lws|Away> MaulingMonkey: aye, you're right
17:24:05  <lws|Away> thanks
17:24:09  <TrueLight> which in fact is impossible if the problem was in their network
17:24:13  <MaulingMonkey> np
17:24:16  <TrueLight> because it indicates your ISP doesn't have any route to that IP range
17:24:28  <TrueLight> so either a backbone just dropped, or they gave out a wrong update all over the net
17:24:28  <grimrc1> I seem to get to 21 (  67.109 ms  59.733 ms  61.710 ms
17:24:31  <TrueLight> short: it is a bit weird :p
17:25:01  <grimrc1> oh actually I can get to flyspray hehe
17:25:13  <TrueLight> grimrc1: that is only because it is back online
17:25:13  <blathijs> grimrc1: that's what I suspected
17:25:22  <TrueLight> try a trace now
17:25:22  <blathijs> ah, right :-)
17:25:25  <blathijs> works here too
17:25:28  <blathijs> wtf happened?
17:25:39  <TrueLight> dunno
17:25:45  <TrueLight> if I trace it now, it goes over level3...
17:25:51  <TrueLight> but I guess we will never know what happened :)
17:26:19  <glx> wait for MiHaMiX return, and ask :)
17:26:31  <TrueLight> yup
17:26:48  <TrueLight> I should really work on the secondary network, if any OpenTTD service drops, an other takes over :p
17:26:52  <TrueLight> just I don't have any time :(
17:27:12  <grimrc1> ooo wiki's up too
17:27:29  <glx> grimrc1: and translator
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17:28:18  <TrueLight> if one is up, they all are
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17:44:18  <grimrc1> I think I've worked out why xscreensaver doesn't terminate openttd properly; I think it must terminate my wrapper-script (which it called earlier) and so openttd doesn't get closed somehow; any way I can fix this?
17:44:52  <blathijs> grimrc1: possibly by setting some kind of signal handling using the bash "set" command IIRC?
17:45:09  <grimrc1> oh cool I'll check that!  thanks
17:45:14  <Maedhros> if you're using bash, you can use trap:
17:45:21  <hylje> its a trap!
17:45:23  <grimrc1> and that too; great
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17:47:49  <Sacro> :( i need another system
17:48:25  <TrueLight> <- comments?
17:56:01  <MaulingMonkey> ... any reason for doing "A ? B : false" instead of "A && B" ?
17:56:20  <TrueLight> not really, this was just while rewriting more logic :)
17:56:28  <TrueLight> they will be removed anyway, but good point, will change it
17:56:44  <MaulingMonkey> I was just wondering if that was some weird C programming practice :D
17:57:21  <Eddi|zuHause2> you can express all logical operations with the if/then/else operator
17:58:03  <Noldo> it's not an operator
17:58:08  <Noldo> it's a control structure
17:58:59  <MaulingMonkey> He's refering to the ?: terinary operator :)
17:59:36  <MaulingMonkey> But yeah, that looks sane.
17:59:44  <grimrc1> Eddi|zuHause2: suppose one way to prove that is to show you can construct a NAND out of if/else (which you can)
18:00:23  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... you probably need either true or false also
18:00:27  <grimrc1> because I seem to remember you can use NAND to create all the other "simple" logical operations
18:00:41  <grimrc1> suppose to be useful in electronics
18:01:37  <grimrc1> example:    A NAND A = NOT A
18:01:46  <OwenS> grimrc1: As you can
18:01:47  <blathijs> grimrc1: yup, it is
18:01:50  <OwenS> (I should knwo...)
18:02:06  <TrueLight> awaiting 20:15 before commit...
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18:03:03  <Belugas> heheh that is a long time until then :) 6 hours...
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18:03:05  <Wolf01> lol lol
18:03:09  <Eddi|zuHause2> i remember that we used the I-T-E operator to prove you can do all logical operations with O(n^2) on BDDs
18:03:38  <hylje> hahah
18:03:41  <grimrc1> what's I-T-E and BDD?
18:03:54  <MaulingMonkey> If Then Else
18:03:55  <Eddi|zuHause2> where n is the size of the input BDDs
18:03:57  <hylje> all your base are belong to us
18:04:06  <Eddi|zuHause2> Binary Decision Diagrams
18:04:24  <TrueLight> Belugas: here it is just an other 10 minutes :p
18:04:42  <Eddi|zuHause2> an efficient way to represent logical expressions
18:04:49  <grimrc1> oh cool
18:05:14  <Belugas> TrueLight, I love to make you talk :D
18:05:16  <Eddi|zuHause2> you'd probably come across them in technical computer science class
18:05:27  <TrueLight> Belugas: I know :)
18:05:40  <grimrc1> I'll look them up on wikipedia/planetmath/etc. some imte
18:05:42  <grimrc1> time
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18:06:06  <grimrc1> I like the way worship time and bible study time are exactly the same in that pic
18:07:25  <Eddi|zuHause2> that was not proper english...
18:08:32  <grimrc1> ?
18:08:35  <Wolf01> <- sacro, you should sleep with one eye open ;)
18:09:30  <grimrc1> I'm guessing they put his hand on his crotch
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18:14:04  <MeusH> evening
18:14:19  <Sacro> evening MeusH
18:15:20  <CIA-1> truelight * r6053 /trunk/ (17 files):
18:15:20  <CIA-1> -Codechange: renamed all IsXXXIndex to IsValidXXXID
18:15:20  <CIA-1> -Codechange: IsValidXXXID now also checks if XXX is really valid, not if the number is within range
18:15:20  <CIA-1>  Both changes again in preperation of the new mem-pool system, which requires this.
18:15:20  <CIA-1>  IsValidXXXID is not a bit less pretty, but that will be cleaned up after the new mem-pool system
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18:35:50  * MeusH plays r1147 :)
18:36:03  <Bjarni> why?
18:36:12  <Bjarni> you want a featureless and buggy version?
18:36:21  <hylje> no, bears on a submarine
18:36:44  <TrueLight> no, he wants attention
18:37:00  <Darkvater> poor kid
18:37:18  <Darkvater> can anyone hear me?
18:37:22  <Bjarni> no
18:37:23  <MaulingMonkey> No.
18:37:23  <Sacro> Darkvater: no
18:37:23  * Darkvater pokes Bjarni
18:37:33  <Darkvater> hmm, ok then just internet is slow/dead
18:37:35  <TrueLight> glad this channel has one opinion :)
18:37:36  <MeusH> I can hear you
18:37:41  <MeusH> but you sound like...
18:37:42  <MeusH> hmm
18:37:45  <TrueLight> of course you can MeusH, you want attention
18:37:46  * MeusH faints
18:37:49  <TrueLight> we already established that
18:37:53  <MaulingMonkey> Indeed.
18:37:59  <MaulingMonkey> It's like an Emo cutting themselves.
18:38:07  <MeusH> I play r1147 to see early versions of OTTD
18:38:20  <Darkvater> why not download 0.1?
18:38:31  <MeusH> didn't found
18:38:35  <MeusH> I went to nightly archive
18:38:58  <Darkvater>
18:39:13  <Darkvater> < 0.1.4 has first exe
18:39:19  <Darkvater> no wait, scrap that
18:39:37  <Bjarni> 0.1.4 got the first OSX binary
18:39:38  * TrueLight starts painting on his screen
18:39:49  <Bjarni> and guess what: it got hardcoded paths to my HD :p
18:39:55  <OwenS> O.o
18:39:55  <Bjarni> yet no bug reports for it
18:40:03  <OwenS> Pffft
18:40:15  <hylje> that reminds me
18:40:27  <TrueLight> nobody played it
18:40:29  <Bjarni> 74 downloads or something like that and nobody complained that it failed to open
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18:41:02  <Darkvater> 0.1.1 was downloaded almost 500 times
18:41:24  <TrueLight> now we are talking in the.. 500k?
18:41:38  <TrueLight> just 400 torrent downloads of 0.4.8 :p
18:41:58  <TrueLight> and 12k on SF
18:42:03  <Darkvater> 82K for 0.4.7 (exe) and 25K for zip
18:42:48  <grimrc1> that must exclude distros
18:43:00  <TrueLight> 130k downloads of 0.4.7
18:43:05  <TrueLight> let's not make exeptions for targets
18:43:16  <TrueLight> and of course many distros have their own copy
18:43:20  <TrueLight> we can't count them :p
18:43:39  <Darkvater> openttd should dial home ;p
18:43:40  <grimrc1> not easily; maybe some of them have stats pages up
18:44:05  <grimrc1> anyone tracking internet server usage?
18:44:23  <grimrc1> internet games
18:44:32  <TrueLight> stats are at top of page
18:44:35  <TrueLight> the advertised servers that is
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18:53:52  <TrueLight> hmm
18:53:53  <TrueLight> can someone
18:53:57  <TrueLight> explain me the use of _vehicle_id_ctr_day?
18:54:45  <TrueLight> unused global
18:54:46  <TrueLight> hehe
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18:57:59  <Bjarni> hehe, now I figured out why patchman changes avatar so often on the forum. He got a script like DV used to have to set a random one out of many
18:59:25  <TrueLight> :)
18:59:49  <TrueLight> I hate avatars
19:00:41  <hylje> :o
19:00:44  <hylje> avatar rotator
19:00:51  <hylje> people generally have just sig rotators
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19:13:33  <OwenS> O.o
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19:13:53  <OwenS> How does a string get transformed into a load of jibberish on it's way through a DBM O.o
19:14:30  <hylje> character sets
19:14:50  <OwenS> I'm using the C character set here if I am not mistaken
19:15:10  <OwenS> Even if I am not, the string is completely 7-Bit ASCII clean
19:17:10  <OwenS> Oh, and this is opening the DBM file
19:19:56  <Darkvater> Bjarni: and then owen told me one day to drop it cause his crappy dialup couldn't handle it
19:20:00  <Darkvater> :s
19:20:10  <OwenS> Owen Rudge that is I would guess :P
19:20:16  <Darkvater> yes orudge
19:20:29  <hylje> :D
19:21:53  <glx> 3 more highlights for him :)
19:22:17  <hylje> for orudge?
19:22:18  <MeusH> hey SROTU
19:22:23  <MeusH> one highlight more
19:25:40  <Bjarni> Darkvater: I remember
19:25:47  <Bjarni> he didn't say that to patchman though
19:26:28  <TrueLight> I should stop making changes to all those include files...
19:26:33  <Darkvater> DISCRIMINATION!!
19:28:07  <Bjarni> Darkvater: well, there is a reason why Owen hangs out in #tycoon and not here
19:28:21  <hylje> Bjarni: darkvaer*
19:28:23  <Darkvater> hehe, orudge is so bad
19:28:29  <OwenS> Stop highligting me :P
19:28:41  <Bjarni> OwenS: what do you mean?
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19:28:47  <OwenS> Owen highlights me :P
19:28:54  <hylje> Bjarni: OwenS
19:29:08  <Bjarni> Owen Owen Owen Owen Owen Owen
19:29:12  <Bjarni> Owen Owen Owen Owen Owen Owen
19:29:16  <OwenS> >.<
19:29:21  <Darkvater> bring it on!
19:29:48  <TrueLight> <- comments? (just an indirect rename)
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19:36:52  <Darkvater> TrueLight: shouldn't it return StationID, WaypointID, etc.?
19:37:16  <TrueLight> yes, it does return StationID
19:37:21  <Darkvater> ah it does... we don't have typedefs for waypoint/roadstop?
19:37:22  <TrueLight> and now try to find WaypointID....
19:37:28  <TrueLight> I will patch that up too, but later
19:37:31  <TrueLight> not in this patch :)
19:37:36  <Darkvater> we do have DepotID
19:37:55  <TrueLight> really? COOL!
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19:37:59  <TrueLight> you really have an other source then I have
19:38:13  <TrueLight> Is it from the future?
19:38:19  <Darkvater> hmm, my RAM's faulty
19:38:23  <TrueLight> Yeah
19:38:27  <TrueLight> so don't talk unless you checked :)
19:38:36  <TrueLight> if 50% does have a typedef, and 50% not
19:38:41  <TrueLight> you can be pretty sure I checked ;)
19:39:06  <Darkvater> muhhahah
19:39:09  <Darkvater> brainiacs
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19:45:27  <OwenS> *** glibc detected *** lt-hgdbmtest: double free or corruption (out): 0x46d15850 ***
19:45:28  <OwenS> Erm, shit
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19:46:06  <hylje> so in other words
19:46:07  *** Frostregen_ is now known as Frostregen
19:46:10  <hylje> your glibc is broken
19:46:22  <OwenS> No, that means glibc has detected a double free
19:46:41  <hylje> k
19:47:06  <TrueLight> really? Who would have guessed :)
19:47:35  <OwenS> TrueLight: Well, it IS rot26 encoded :P
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20:02:55  <TrueLight> <- Darkvater: PRESS REFRESH :p :p :p :p
20:03:00  <TrueLight> I renewed it
20:03:42  <Darkvater> >= to > ?
20:03:46  <TrueLight> Yes
20:03:52  <TrueLight> If I have 3 towns
20:03:54  <TrueLight> HighestID is 2
20:04:41  <TrueLight> hmm
20:04:43  <TrueLight> I just found out
20:04:46  <TrueLight> that RandomRange
20:04:49  <TrueLight> never returns 'max'
20:04:56  <Patrick`> owned.
20:04:59  <hylje> :o
20:05:04  <TrueLight> so _all_ have to get a + 1
20:05:07  <TrueLight> or a >= to >
20:05:31  <Darkvater> hehe
20:05:52  <TrueLight> so I need to do +1 in the function
20:05:53  <TrueLight> and rename it
20:06:02  <TrueLight> bah, naming is hard
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20:08:38  <grimrc1> does anybody know how to run a command in a bash script, and have its process ID returned to the script?  grepping ps or killall doesn't really seem the safest way to find the exact process you started
20:09:16  <TrueLight> use pgrep, instead of ps and grep
20:09:19  <TrueLight> but I dunno :)
20:09:28  <hylje> i think some wizards use awk for that
20:09:36  <grimrc1> yeah heard of pgrep
20:10:16  <grimrc1> if there was a way to say: execute $command pid > $CHILD_PID
20:10:28  <grimrc1> in super-pseudo code
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20:11:39  <weasel> $!
20:12:47  <Brianetta> grimrc1: There's no way, unfortunately
20:12:52  <weasel> Tue 22:11:39 <weasel> $!
20:12:58  <weasel>    Special Parameters
20:12:58  <weasel>        The shell treats several parameters specially.   These  parameters  may
20:12:58  <weasel>        only be referenced; assignment to them is not allowed.
20:13:01  <weasel>        !      Expands  to  the  process ID of the most recently executed back-
20:13:01  <weasel>               ground (asynchronous) command.
20:13:24  <Brianetta> grimrc1: although you can use other scripting languages to do this
20:13:37  <grimrc1> oh cool; so I run it in the background and run wait till it dies - trapping SIGTERM
20:13:48  <Brianetta> That's another way
20:14:08  <Brianetta> I was thinking of using a different shell, one which *could* store the pid
20:14:08  <grimrc1> (repairing my openttd screensaver script)
20:14:09  <weasel> grimrc1: no, use wait.
20:14:13  <Brianetta> but your wrapper idea would work
20:14:14  <weasel>        wait [n ...]
20:14:14  <weasel>               Wait  for each specified process and return its termination sta-
20:14:15  <weasel>               tus.  Each n may be a process ID or a job  specification;
20:14:16  <weasel> ..
20:14:45  <grimrc1> weasel: yeah normally, but xscreensaver is going to try to terminate *my script* first, so I need to trap and then kill this subprocess
20:15:02  <weasel> ok
20:15:05  <grimrc1> (which is openttd of course)
20:15:19  <weasel> is there a FAQ somewhere btw?
20:15:49  <grimrc1> for what?
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20:16:00  <weasel> openttd.
20:16:02  <grimrc1> bash - yeah I was reading the howtos
20:16:18  <grimrc1> weasel: dunno - what part of openttd anyway?
20:16:19  <weasel> for one I wondered if ttd is still for sale, since apparently openttd requires its data files
20:16:44  <grimrc1> weasel: Chris Sawyer's site discusses TTDLX (but not openttd)
20:16:47  <Brianetta> grimrc1: If you use Expect, you can get the pid form spawn
20:16:52  <Brianetta> from spawn
20:17:01  *** |Jeroen| [] has quit [Quit: Whoopsy]
20:17:19  <grimrc1> Expect is a scripting language?
20:17:29  <Brianetta> It's Tcl with bolt-ons
20:17:37  <OwenS> Tcl sucks :P
20:17:51  <Brianetta> OwenS: For screensaver control, I think you're right
20:17:57  <Brianetta> I'm looking for similar capability in Perl
20:18:13  <OwenS> I beleive theres PerlExpect or ExpectPerl, cant remember which
20:18:23  <OwenS> Or maybe thats Python im thinking of
20:18:35  <Brianetta> Tryin gto avoid Expect here
20:18:44  <OwenS> Aah
20:18:52  <Brianetta> Expect is a bit much for a "what was the pid of my screensaver" problem
20:18:56  <OwenS> What are you doing? Starting a screen saver and getting it's pid?
20:18:56  <OwenS> Hehe
20:19:13  <grimrc1> I am yeah
20:19:16  <weasel> why do you need its pid again?
20:19:20  <Brianetta> killall xscreensaver
20:19:28  <grimrc1> so I can kill it on SIGTERM (of the script)
20:19:36  <weasel> why not simply exec the program you want to run?
20:19:39  <grimrc1> there's a wrapper-script I'm making for openttd
20:19:47  <Brianetta> weasel: exec exits the wrapper
20:19:53  <weasel> yes and no.
20:19:57  <grimrc1> weasel: I need to clean up /tmp/openttd.cfg.XXXXXX
20:20:01  <weasel> ah
20:20:15  <grimrc1> otherwise openttd screensaver clobbers openttd proper (with weird resolution etc.)
20:23:11  <Brianetta> fork then exec
20:23:16  <Brianetta> that;s the way
20:23:25  <Brianetta> grimrc1: Read this thread:
20:23:38  <Brianetta> That's asuming a perl wrapper
20:24:23  <Darkvater> gn all
20:24:28  <Brianetta> n8 Darkvater
20:24:36  <grimrc1> yeah - not a good dependency for a screensaver wrapper-script though
20:24:41  *** Spoco [] has quit []
20:24:51  <Brianetta> bash is?
20:25:18  <grimrc1> no perl - bit overkill
20:25:32  <Boerta> i have a lot of trains with two steam locomotives. is there any easy way to replace them with electric ones, but end up with one engine on each train instead  of two?
20:25:37  <Brianetta> This is the sort of task for which Perl was originally intended
20:25:44  <Brianetta> Tcl, too
20:25:56  <Brianetta> they both have the same remit, but very different syntax
20:26:33  <OwenS> And Tcl being the arse to setup
20:26:41  <OwenS> And Perl being the arse to maintain
20:26:45  <Brianetta> Can't you get your screensaver to write a pidfile?
20:26:57  <Brianetta> OwenS: Tcl a pain to set up?  Howso?
20:27:12  <Brianetta> In Linux it's  apackage, in Windows it's a Wise installer
20:27:27  <Brianetta> You must have had a bad experience
20:27:57  <OwenS> Brianetta: I yum installed TCL, then I had to get Tcllib, which has sucky install instructions, then I got it installed and cold not figure out for the like of me how to make it a standard Tcl package
20:27:58  <Brianetta> Honestly, it's ahrder to set up OpenTTD
20:28:18  <OwenS> ./configure;make;sudo make install is seasier
20:28:22  <Brianetta> OwenS: Sounds like Debian packaged it wrongly
20:28:27  *** Nigel [~Nigel@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:28:32  <OwenS> RedHat you mean
20:28:34  <OwenS> CentOS 4.3
20:28:41  <Brianetta> Oh, right
20:28:44  <Brianetta> I have Fedora
20:28:50  <Brianetta> yum install tcllib
20:28:56  <Brianetta> Even installed Tcl for me
20:29:00  <OwenS> CentOS doesn't include that
20:29:16  <Brianetta> CentOS is like Redhat, but with a delay
20:29:25  <Brianetta> In fact, it's exactly like that
20:29:43  <Bjarni> [22:10] 	<Daan_Timmer>	oye, patchman, may I ask you somthing?
20:29:43  <Bjarni> [22:10] 	<Daan_Timmer>	you are a programmer right?
20:29:44  <Bjarni> ROFL
20:29:47  <Brianetta> Anyway, you can't blame Tcl for a distribution's braindeadness
20:29:53  <OwenS> Funnily enough it's still faster than Debian though, who take the longest...
20:29:58  <hylje> Bjarni: rather be sure than sorry.. :D
20:30:07  <OwenS> rofl
20:30:49  <Brianetta> So, Tcl.  Main gripe with people I know is, it's a headf*ck of a syntax for people used to C-like languages, including Perl, PHP, Java and bash.
20:31:11  <Brianetta> To Lisp programmers, it's like Lisp but not as consistently.
20:31:13  * OwenS lives C/C++/Java/Bash
20:31:20  <OwenS> /PHP
20:31:28  <Patrick`> I started in python
20:31:35  <Bjarni> OwenS: many people live in, but java..... good luck
20:31:38  <Patrick`> learned C and C++ recently
20:31:48  <Brianetta> They're OK, although I have to change gears between them (like remembering whether this nearly-the-same language uses a $ for its variables)
20:31:52  <OwenS> Bjarni: :rolleyeyes:
20:31:59  <Brianetta> Tcl is sufficiently different that I don't forget any of it
20:32:18  <OwenS> Brianetta: I just have my syntax highlighting colours different :P
20:32:24  <Brianetta> (:
20:32:38  <Brianetta> Syntax highlighting is pretty much useless in Tcl
20:32:44  <grimrc1> I made a funny bash error; I put & at the end of a variable assignment by mistake and so there was a race condition where the following command wouldn't get its variable
20:32:54  <Brianetta> since a quoted string can happily be executed, and the syntax highlighter can't tell
20:33:06  <OwenS> O.o
20:33:44  <Brianetta> OwenS: In php 'this' and "this" are strings.  You understand how they differ?
20:34:13  <OwenS> Brianetta: Yes, in " strings you can use variables, but must escape $s
20:34:22  <Brianetta> Indeed.  In Tcl,
20:34:37  <Brianetta> 'this' is {this}, and "this" is "this"
20:34:49  <Brianetta> and both double up as code block delimiters
20:35:00  <OwenS> O.o
20:35:03  <Brianetta> where you can have variables substituted in the code before execution
20:35:10  <OwenS> Nonsensical :P
20:35:15  <Brianetta> Everything in Tcl is a command
20:35:18  <OwenS> If I wanted that I would use eval() in PHP
20:35:43  <Brianetta> Tcl has eval, but only for things like eval ((4+ $t) * 4)
20:35:59  <Brianetta> otherwise, it's Polish Notation throughout
20:36:07  <Brianetta> command parameter parameter .. .. ..
20:36:20  <Brianetta> with command substitution aplenty
20:36:26  <OwenS> At least it's not RPN...
20:36:42  <Brianetta> It's as good as - just literally the other way around
20:37:16  <Brianetta> I love it, because it's such a refreshing change from the sameness of all the others
20:37:28  <Brianetta> I still code in PHP and so on
20:37:43  <OwenS> I once tried Pascal for a change once. I found it's syntax ugly and unelegant...
20:37:43  <Brianetta> and awk (:
20:37:54  <Brianetta> It syntax is practically the same
20:37:59  <Brianetta> hence, p2c
20:38:08  <Brianetta> the pascal to C converter filter
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20:38:25  <OwenS> Yes, but it's grammar rules (begin instead of {, := instead of =, = instead of ==...)
20:38:33  <Brianetta> Not grammar rules
20:38:37  <Brianetta> Just its vocabulary
20:38:42  <OwenS> Heh
20:38:44  <Brianetta> The rules are the same
20:38:48  <_4Stern_> Hi
20:39:02  <OwenS> It's insistance you don't use pointers :P
20:39:05  <Brianetta> Hi, _4Stern_
20:39:07  <Bjarni> hi _4Stern_
20:39:14  <OwenS> (Or, how difficult it makes them)
20:39:19  <Brianetta> OwenS: That's just because it tries to be different
20:39:21  <CIA-1> tron * r6054 /trunk/ (graph_gui.c signs.h):
20:39:21  <CIA-1> Change the sign sorter in a similar way as the other sorters: Remember a list of pointers to signs instead of a list of SignIDs - This removes a layer of indirection
20:39:21  <CIA-1> Also make the sign list static
20:39:33  <Bjarni> gah, _4 tab asks if I want to finish _42_ :p
20:39:52  <Brianetta> I used to program in Turbo Pascal back in the very early 90s
20:39:54  <_4Stern_> is Darkvater present?
20:40:09  <OwenS> Hes away
20:40:18  <_4Stern_> thanks
20:40:19  <Brianetta> [21:24] <Darkvater> gn all
20:40:46  *** thgergo [] has joined #openttd
20:40:57  <Brianetta> Quarter of an hour; he'll be fast asleep.  I suggest you ring him.
20:41:32  <CIA-1> truelight * r6055 /trunk/ (18 files in 3 dirs):
20:41:32  <CIA-1> -Codechange: added GetXXXArraySize, which returns HighestID + 1 (or, will do that).
20:41:32  <CIA-1>  It isn't the best name, but we couldn't find any better.
20:41:32  <CIA-1>  This unifies the pool-system even more.
20:43:05  <_4Stern_> hm - it is not necessaryto ring him ...
20:43:31  <_4Stern_> i only want to know if he got my email yesterday
20:43:40  <Patrick`> sorry, it's actually called GetXXXArraySize?
20:43:44  <Patrick`> bahahah
20:43:47  <OwenS> O.o
20:43:48  <Patrick`> int foo = 3
20:44:08  <Brianetta> can't do that in Pascal
20:44:12  <Patrick`> /* set foo to 3 */
20:44:34  <Brianetta> Tcl:
20:44:37  <Brianetta> set foo 3
20:44:40  <Patrick`> hah, yeah, let's do that as an amusing excersise
20:44:41  <Brianetta> / set foo to 3
20:44:45  <Belugas> Brianetta :yes you can
20:44:48  <Patrick`> writing the perfect example of *bad* C
20:44:53  <Patrick`> that still compiles
20:44:57  <Belugas> Const foo : integer = 1;
20:45:11  <Patrick`> compiler warnings that still work on only x86 ...
20:45:12  <Brianetta> Belugas: Congrats; that;s a constant.  Try a var.
20:45:20  <Patrick`> comments like /* test if x is false */
20:45:23  <OwenS> I cant do that, but I can give you an example of some Bash script which is not humanely possible to read
20:45:26  <Patrick`> nondescript variable names
20:45:28  <Patrick`> GOTO!
20:45:29  <Belugas> nope, it is a VAR constant. It complies and it wokrs
20:45:39  <OwenS> Goto rocks on occasion
20:45:39  <Belugas> i use it quite oftenly
20:45:50  <Brianetta> Sounds more recent than the Pascal I used
20:46:11  <Patrick`> not stuff from the IOCCC, just bad code
20:46:16  <Brianetta> Goto doesn't ever rock.  In the few cases where it is necessary, we wee, wail and gnash our teeth.
20:46:16  <Patrick`> that might be unintentionally bad
20:46:19  <Brianetta> We do not mosh.
20:46:36  <OwenS> No, there are occasions where it has it's uses
20:46:40  <OwenS> Though they are very rare
20:46:52  <Brianetta> Indeed.  Thos occasions are a time for mourning, not rocking.
20:46:53  <Belugas> Brianetta This is objet Pascal, I agree
20:47:07  <Brianetta> Belugas: More familiar wiht plain ANSI
20:47:07  <Belugas> but I heard that FreePascal support it too :)
20:47:23  <OwenS> rot=cho;bc=at;bn=c;r=$bn$bc;q=e$rot;o=dev;n=/;m=$n$o$n;p=$m;g=u;h=r;i=a;j=n;k=d;l=o;a=$g$h$i;b=d;c=$j$k$l;d=s;e=m;f=p;$q `$r \`$q $p$a$c$e\` > \`$q $m$b$d$f\``
20:47:23  <OwenS> Now, I challenge anyone to understand that Bash :P
20:47:39  * Brianetta reads and parses
20:47:52  <OwenS> You can execute it if you want; It will do no harm
20:48:02  <Belugas> Ansi is quite far away from me :).  We exploit every feature available for our apps
20:48:02  * Brianetta uses paper
20:48:13  <OwenS> Haha
20:48:25  <Brianetta> I don't trust obfuscated process substitution
20:49:16  <OwenS> Ive forgotten how it works now ;P
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20:54:23  <Brianetta> Got it
20:54:56  <OwenS> Got the answer?
20:55:01  <OwenS> Show it then :P
20:55:01  <Brianetta> Lots of variables which eventually spell out, then run, echo /dev/urandom > /dev/dsp
20:55:06  <OwenS> Yup :P
20:55:17  <OwenS> Which just makes a tonne of noise on the speakers :P
20:55:19  <Brianetta> unfortunately, since my speakers are off, running it would have been un-obvious
20:55:26  <OwenS> Actually it's cat /dev/urandom :P
20:55:27  <Brianetta> Hooray for paper.
20:55:37  <Bjarni> Hunk #1 succeeded at 1396 (offset 192 lines).
20:55:37  <Bjarni> Hunk #2 succeeded at 1466 (offset 193 lines).
20:55:39  <Brianetta> $bn$bc
20:55:41  <Brianetta> of course
20:55:43  <Brianetta> yes
20:55:46  <Bjarni> using old patches are fun :)
20:55:58  <OwenS> Also, Bash gets hopelessly confused and doesn't allow you to ^C it O.o
20:56:08  <OwenS> You need to killall cat
20:56:10  <CIA-1> truelight * r6056 /trunk/town_cmd.c: -Codechange: don't use a loop what can be done with a simple wrapper
20:56:17  <Bjarni> this one managed to be applied without conflicts even though it's against 2591 o_O
20:56:26  <Brianetta> Bjarni: ...but does i t go?
20:56:34  <Bjarni> compiling
20:56:45  <grimrc1> I think I've finally got it working
20:56:50  <OwenS> Good would be if I worked out a way of making a variable which contains a space :P
20:57:00  <Brianetta> the echo was the command substitution
20:57:13  <OwenS> Huh?
20:57:35  <Brianetta> cat `echo blah`
20:57:37  <Brianetta> etc
20:57:49  <OwenS> Aah, so it got lost there :P
20:58:00  <Brianetta> Well, my parser is highly beta
20:58:04  <Brianetta> and paper-bound
20:58:08  <OwenS> Hehe
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20:58:43  <OwenS> echo `cat \`echo /dev/urandom\` > \`echo /dev/dsp\``
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20:59:39  <grimrc1> hehe; is that "safe"?
20:59:45  <OwenS> That code?
20:59:51  <grimrc1> well, with /dev/dsp
20:59:54  <OwenS> Yes
21:00:03  <grimrc1> sounds bloody awful I'm guessing
21:00:07  <OwenS> rot=cho;bc=at;bn=c;r=$bn$bc;q=e$rot;o=dev;n=/;m=$n$o$n;p=$m;g=u;h=r;i=a;j=n;k=d;l=o;a=$g$h$i;b=d;c=$j$k$l;d=s;e=m;f=p;$q `$r \`$q $p$a$c$e\` > \`$q $m$b$d$f\``
21:00:07  <OwenS>  is too :P
21:00:11  <Brianetta> If (safe(noisy))
21:00:50  <grimrc1> having fun there OwenS ?
21:00:58  <grimrc1> obfuscating bash code
21:00:59  <OwenS> No, a week ago it was :P
21:01:08  <_4Stern_> you have a opinion about a openttd-league?
21:01:14  <OwenS> I was inspired to do that by Sacro telling a guy a good benchmark was cat /dev/urandom > /dev/null...
21:01:18  <grimrc1> I bet there's a utility out there to parse bash code bit by bit so we don't have to
21:01:32  <OwenS> Hehe
21:01:48  <Brianetta> grimrc1: It's known as bash
21:01:52  <grimrc1> debug mode?
21:02:14  <grimrc1> you don't want to run the last bit if it's rm -rf; unless you've chrooted first I suppose
21:02:50  <grimrc1> I haven't played with bash's debug mode but it does have one
21:02:57  <Brianetta> perl -e "{while (1){fork();};}"
21:03:22  <OwenS> Erm, no thanks to what looks like a locally inflicted DOS :P
21:03:30  <grimrc1> Brianetta: actually tried it?
21:03:42  <Brianetta> grimrc1: Got banned fomr a  university cluster for it
21:03:46  <grimrc1> hehe
21:03:47  <OwenS> Haha
21:03:55  <grimrc1> you need a way to stop it just as easily
21:03:59  <Brianetta> There is nonw
21:04:14  <grimrc1> well, I mean build something that can be stopped
21:04:15  <Brianetta> The uni staff had to reboot one cluster node in order to send NMIs to the others
21:04:19  <OwenS> killall -s9 perl?
21:04:21  <OwenS> O.o rofl
21:04:40  <Brianetta> The CPUs were so loaded that the shell prompt didn't respond
21:04:40  <grimrc1> Brianetta: are they really elite staff or not?
21:04:44  <Brianetta> and th eproicess table filled up fast
21:04:49  <grimrc1> suppose that's fair enough
21:04:57  <OwenS> Killall couldn't start I guess :P
21:04:59  <grimrc1> they need quota support
21:05:01  <Brianetta> They weren't bad, but this was > 10 years ago
21:05:13  <Brianetta> I imagine they have it all under control now
21:05:17  <Boerta> is there a known bug in the pathfinding for electric trains?
21:05:25  <grimrc1> yeah chmod -x /usr/bin/perl
21:05:32  <Brianetta> Boerta: No.
21:05:34  <grimrc1> a-x
21:05:40  <hylje> chmod -x chmod
21:05:41  <OwenS> Hmm
21:06:09  * OwenS starts a VMWare VM
21:06:27  <Boerta> i have these electric trains driving around in circles. i made a steam train at the same depot with the same orders (tho not shared) and it finds its way, no problem
21:06:45  <Brianetta> OwenS: That DOS isn't as efective on today's machines, as the process table fills up before the CPU can't handle the load
21:06:53  <Brianetta> so Ctrl+C has a good chance of ending it
21:07:09  <OwenS> Brianetta: I wouldn't have thought so as fork makes it a seperate process?
21:07:10  <Brianetta> whereas on an Apollo HP-UX workstation... nice as they were...
21:07:13  <OwenS> killall -s9 would of course
21:07:16  <grimrc1> while(load < X) do fork() wend; pseudo code of course
21:07:23  <Brianetta> No, Ctrl+C works
21:07:29  <OwenS> O.o
21:07:30  *** Trenskow [~outlet@] has quit [Quit: Read error: Connection reset by sortepeer]
21:07:35  <Boerta> anyone have a clue what could be causing this?
21:07:50  <Gonozal_VIII> maybe you have a non electrified piece of track or the target station is not electrified
21:07:56  <Brianetta> Boerta: Usually a single tile of non-electrified track somewhere, in my experience
21:08:11  <OwenS> Brianetta: It works under VMWare :P
21:08:25  <Boerta> well, i blew up the rail piece where they kept looping, then they just went for a bigger loop around the tracks
21:08:25  <Brianetta> OwenS: Ctrl+C, or the DOS?
21:08:31  <OwenS> DOS
21:08:35  <Brianetta> aha
21:08:36  <Boerta> and lookahead isn't further than one tile, is it?
21:08:37  *** Belugas is now known as Belugas_Gone
21:08:45  <Brianetta> Boerta: Look-ahead is complete
21:08:46  <OwenS> Im not trying it on my real PC for some reason...
21:08:57  <OwenS> I would presume Linux has a much larger process table
21:09:09  <OwenS> Oh no, it's only temporary
21:09:15  <Brianetta> Yes
21:09:18  <Boerta> ok.. other el-trains have driven to the offending  tile and then just started going back and forth between the gap and the one-way lights
21:09:25  <Brianetta> They are fork()ed, but they are still child processes
21:09:27  <Boerta> but these guys just go around in circles
21:09:35  <Bjarni> how do you make a shell command in C?
21:09:44  <Bjarni> there is a function for this, but I forgot the name :(
21:09:55  <Brianetta> Bjarni: system()
21:09:56  <OwenS> A shell command? Huh?
21:09:58  <OwenS> Aah
21:10:12  <Gonozal_VIII> pathfinder tells them that there is no valid way so they circle around
21:10:22  <Bjarni> ahh, I used the wrong case
21:10:30  <Wolf01|AFK> 'night
21:10:34  *** Wolf01|AFK is now known as Wolf01
21:10:39  <Brianetta> YAPF makes random choices if there's no choice
21:10:43  <Brianetta> I think NPF does, too
21:10:49  <Brianetta> er, no path
21:10:50  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: e ricordate, per la legge di avogadro non esiste cazzo quadro]
21:10:51  <Brianetta> not no choice
21:10:51  <Boerta> i have yapf on
21:11:01  <Boerta> but yeh, it looks like it's some el-track missing
21:11:23  <hylje> look through the supposed route
21:11:24  <MaulingMonkey> The replace train dialog dosn't seem to want to work :(.
21:11:33  <Brianetta> MaulingMonkey: It works.
21:11:43  <MaulingMonkey> I must be doing something stupid I realize, but I cannot figure out *what*
21:11:51  <Brianetta> What are you trying to replace?
21:11:56  <_4Stern_> nobody has a opinion about a league?
21:11:58  <glx> what is your problem with it?
21:12:04  <Gonozal_VIII> i have this problem sometimes when i load a safegame or rejoin after desync and build some normal rails without realising it
21:12:06  <MaulingMonkey> Diesels with Electrics.  All the rails are upgraded...
21:12:12  <Brianetta> _4Stern_: We do.  Somebody tried, but nobody was interested.
21:12:25  <Brianetta> MaulingMonkey: Change the drop-down at the middle bottom
21:12:28  <OwenS> Safegame? O.o
21:12:31  <Brianetta> to electric rale vehicles
21:12:36  <Brianetta> rail, even
21:12:44  <MaulingMonkey> The problem isn't that I can't select them.  It's that the Start Replacing Vehicles button does nothing.
21:12:58  <Brianetta> It should activate the stop replacing button.
21:13:09  <MaulingMonkey> It dosn't.  It stays in "Not replacing" mode :(
21:13:18  <MaulingMonkey> Do I need my entire network connected as a single circuit?
21:13:20  <Brianetta> Are all your depots electrified?
21:13:23  <MaulingMonkey> Yes.
21:13:26  <OwenS> Brianetta: I ran it with Uptime in another console and load average is 599.16 XP
21:13:32  <Brianetta> OwenS: l33t
21:13:38  <glx> MaulingMonkey: trains visit depots?
21:13:48  <_4Stern_> Brianetta: and you know why?
21:13:53  <MaulingMonkey> Do they need to be in the depots first?
21:14:01  <Gonozal_VIII> no
21:14:06  <Brianetta> MaulingMonkey: no
21:14:10  <hylje> they replace when they visit a depot
21:14:17  <glx> they just need to visit a depot once the replacing is started
21:14:31  <Brianetta> _4Stern_: Well, I can only speak for myself.  I'm not interested in comparing myself to other players.
21:14:48  <CIA-1> truelight * r6057 /trunk/ (7 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: made a function GetRandomXXX, that _always_ returns a valid XXX, unless there are none to pick from. Then NULL is returned.
21:14:53  <MaulingMonkey> Mmm.  "Stop Replacing Vehicles" dosn't enable even if I select another diesel to replace my current ones with.
21:17:08  <Gonozal_VIII> never had this kind of problem and i use the vehicle replace thing a lot
21:17:12  <MaulingMonkey> It freezes the game up temporarily the first time I press it after restarting OTTD, but still does not enable :(.  Do the depots need to be within a certain range or something maybe?
21:17:21  <CIA-1> truelight * r6058 /trunk/ (industry.h industry_cmd.c town.h town_cmd.c):
21:17:21  <CIA-1> -Fix: Get(Industry|Town)ArraySize could never return 0
21:17:21  <CIA-1>  Note: _total_towns and _total_industries willb e removed soon, so this 'hack' is okay, for now ;)
21:17:39  <Brianetta> MaulingMonkey: Your network, and position of your trains and depots, is irrelevant to the dialogue box.
21:17:44  <_4Stern_> Brianetta: what a pity :(
21:17:49  *** Trenskow [~outlet@] has joined #openttd
21:18:04  <Brianetta> _4Stern_: Go check out the openttdcoop blog - they have a ladder
21:18:12  <Brianetta> but it's for 2v2 teams onlyt
21:18:23  <glx> MaulingMonkey: the replace function doesn't send trains to depot
21:18:31  *** ddream [] has left #openttd []
21:18:41  <MaulingMonkey> glx: The dialog status isn't changing either though.
21:19:16  <MaulingMonkey> Maybe it's just not updating, I'll try sending some trains to the depot anyways.
21:19:28  <Boerta> while we're on the subject of the replace train  dialogue.. is there any way of replacing two engines per train with one? i don't need two engines when i switch from steam to electric.
21:19:41  <Brianetta> Boerta: no
21:19:42  <glx> MaulingMonkey: I never had this update problem
21:20:55  <MaulingMonkey> Yep, they're definately no upgrading :(
21:20:58  <MaulingMonkey> *not
21:21:44  *** Trenskow [~outlet@] has quit []
21:22:50  <_4Stern_> Brianetta: thanks for the tip
21:23:48  *** JohnUK89 [~john@] has joined #openttd
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21:27:06  <Bjarni> <Brianetta>	Bjarni: ...but does i t go? <-- haha, it appears to be buggy by design. That's likely why one of the reasons it was never committed
21:27:15  <Bjarni> another reason is that I forgot to look at it xD
21:28:13  * MaulingMonkey updates from SVN and recompiles
21:30:09  <Bjarni> actually it should work
21:30:14  <Bjarni> yet it does nothing at all
21:30:43  <Bjarni> whatever... I'm not going into bugfixing a patch I'm not even sure I will commit even if it worked
21:31:10  <grimrc1> does kill stop the script until the process has exited?
21:31:29  <Brianetta> What does the patch do?
21:31:44  <Brianetta> grimrc1: ENOCONTEXT
21:31:49  <MaulingMonkey> (aside: latest rev, graph_gui.c@1126 causes a VS8.0 constness warning, and the VS80 project file treats warnings as errors by default)
21:32:14  *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-83-100-224-218.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
21:32:57  <JohnUK89> Oh Noes...
21:33:32  <Bjarni> I can understand your reaction
21:33:43  *** thgergo [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:33:45  <Bjarni> I just notice that you still refuse to use the name I gave you
21:33:45  *** TinoM| [] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
21:34:11  <MaulingMonkey> if anyone wants to apply it :P
21:34:23  <grimrc1> in case anyone's interested, the answer is no, kill does not pause till the command is executed; tested it
21:34:24  * Bjarni picks up a big stick and points it at lolman to make him feel guilty
21:34:52  <Bjarni>, so you are coding on a mac?
21:34:58  <Brianetta> Is that bash built-in kill or /bin/kill ?
21:35:00  <JohnUK89> :-D
21:35:09  <MaulingMonkey> Bjarni: Sometimes.
21:35:13  <grimrc1> oh errr; I dunno
21:35:38  <grimrc1> well /bin/kill doesn't block
21:35:40  <Bjarni> hmm, not the warning fix I had hoped for....
21:35:49  <MaulingMonkey> Different one?
21:35:50  <Brianetta> All it does is send signals
21:35:56  <Bjarni> I had hoped for the MacIntel ones
21:35:59  *** lws1984 [] has quit [Quit: Dinner!@]
21:36:11  <MaulingMonkey> Ahh, only have a PPC mac, sorry :)
21:36:14  <Bjarni> oh well, I guess that would be a bit much to ask for to drop in unexpected
21:36:20  <Brianetta> It *should* block until at least one kill succeeds, or an error
21:36:28  <grimrc1> Brianetta: true; just learnt that; caused stale files for me coz the program still had them locked while I tried to delete them
21:36:33  <Brianetta> because it returns true if anything died
21:37:40  <Bjarni> MaulingMonkey: even on PPC, you can compile and fix them if you use tiger. Just install the 10.4u framework for crosscompiling, so nothing is impossible
21:38:12  *** sayno [] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
21:38:15  <MaulingMonkey> Mmm... have a link handy?
21:38:22  <Bjarni> the issue is that the cocoa drivers are full of deprecated functions, but they only got that warning on i386, not PPC and at the time of writing, none of us got x386 OSX
21:38:25  <grimrc1> Brianetta: it emits 0, but the test script was sleeping inside a trap call and jobs shows it's still running; it takes a few seconds before it chooses to die
21:38:41  <grimrc1> I mean, kill returns 0, success immediately
21:38:43  <Bjarni> MaulingMonkey: it's part of Xcode 2.1 or newer
21:38:56  <Bjarni> it might be optional though
21:39:02  <Bjarni> can't remember
21:39:17  <MaulingMonkey> Investigating :-)
21:39:23  <Brianetta> grimrc1: You're going to have to wait on the targets, then
21:39:30  <grimrc1> solution: trap { kill $OPENTTD_PID; wait $OPENTTD_PID; exit } EXIT
21:39:33  <Bjarni> it is installed in /Developer/SDKs/
21:39:34  <Brianetta> indeed
21:39:48  <grimrc1> should be documented in kill man page really
21:40:00  <Brianetta> man pages were all written 10 years ago at least
21:40:06  <Brianetta> Even for the 5 year old programs
21:40:18  <MaulingMonkey> looks like I'm using 2.0 .  I'll see if I can't do something about it after lunch though.
21:40:44  <grimrc1> hehe yeah
21:40:47  <Bjarni> the newest version is called 2.4
21:40:48  <grimrc1> well I might patch it some time
21:42:17  <Bjarni> if I recall correctly Xcode 2.4 is a 800 mb download
21:43:20  <Bjarni> MaulingMonkey:
21:43:31  <Bjarni> you need to be logged in though, but you can sign up for free
21:44:09  *** Ammler_1 [] has joined #openttd
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21:44:34  *** Ammler_1 is now known as Ammler
21:44:50  <MaulingMonkey> awesome
21:45:06  <mikk36> hey :)
21:45:10  *** Zr40 [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
21:45:22  <grimrc1> what are the Gnome people thinking? file dialogs don't even show permissions!?
21:45:32  *** JohnUK89 [~john@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
21:45:37  <mikk36> Bjarni, could u tell me if the unlimited years feature is part of nightly or is it enableable also in 0.4.7/0.4.8 ?
21:45:51  <mikk36> the feature u use to do the unlimited time coop
21:46:07  <Bjarni> unlimit years as in 2090 loops or max 5.000.000?
21:46:17  <mikk36> 2090 in loops
21:46:29  <Bjarni> we did that since 0.1.x... I think
21:46:35  <mikk36> and how ? :)
21:46:56  <mikk36> just play ?
21:46:59  *** lws1984 [] has joined #openttd
21:47:07  <Bjarni> once you reach 2090 you continue to play. After a year, you will get a new year event and the new year is called 2090
21:47:10  *** MaulingMonkey_iBook [] has joined #openttd
21:47:11  <Bjarni> just like that
21:47:15  <mikk36> oh, ok
21:47:20  <mikk36> just wanted to be sure
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21:47:34  <mikk36> so the game end time 2051 doesn't change anything ?
21:47:39  <OwenS> Bjarni: Does 5,000,000 loop? XD
21:47:53  <Bjarni> you should be able to continue playing
21:48:03  <Bjarni> OwenS: hmm... didn't test that
21:48:05  *** MaulingMonkey_iBook [] has quit []
21:48:15  <mikk36> i haven't finished any game to 2051 i think
21:48:18  *** MaulingMonkey_iBook [] has joined #openttd
21:48:23  <mikk36> so i don't remember myself either what happens then
21:48:45  <Bjarni> you get a you won sign and then you continue to play... or something like that
21:48:51  <mikk36> :)
21:48:53  <mikk36> nice ten
21:49:08  <mikk36> going to check out one screenshot about one coop game
21:49:10  <Rubidium> Bjarni, OwenS: yes, it loops in 5 000 000 in the same way as it did in with 2090
21:49:12  <Bjarni> it's a pretty rare event in my games as I will have a huge rail network long before 2000
21:49:12  <mikk36> to get some ideas
21:49:36  <mikk36> started my first 6-lane network
21:49:50  <mikk36> made it by heart partially and invented the other part myself
21:49:58  <mikk36> not the best.. but at least works somehow
21:50:43  <mikk36> now i hope i can find them :P
21:51:09  * Sacro pokes #openttd with a stick
21:51:10  <JohnUK89> I'm useless when it comes to networks in OTTD lol
21:51:38  * JohnUK89 pokes Sacro with a cattle prod
21:51:46  *** Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:51:46  <Sacro> [22:35] <JohnUK89> Oh Noes... D:
21:51:53  <JohnUK89> :-D
21:51:53  <Bjarni> MaulingMonkey: once you installed Xcode 2.4, you should compile with "make UNIVERSAL_BINARY:=1" and PPC_OSX_TARGET:=10.4u unless you install the 10.3.9 framework as well. You will then have a universal binary. I don't think you can do it from Xcode, only terminal and you need to either disable png support (in Makefile.config) or (like me) make a static universal libpng library
21:52:14  <Sacro> Bjarni: but jpeg suxx
21:52:22  <mikk36> i used gif i think
21:52:32  <mikk36> to save it
21:52:41  <mikk36> otherwise it was huge in size :)
21:52:41  <Bjarni> MaulingMonkey: making universal libraries will take ages to make unless you tried it before... you can also get my file if you like
21:52:53  <MaulingMonkey_iBook> jpeg may suck but given that using libpng seems to crash my windows computer, I'll probably just disable it :P
21:53:06  <Bjarni> Sacro: this is for testing stuff in compilation, not editing pictures :p
21:53:25  <JohnUK89> gah
21:53:37  <JohnUK89> My webcam's not working since I updated kernal...DAMNIT
21:53:41  <Bjarni> heh, windows crashes... who would have thought that :p
21:53:45  <mikk36> ok,they're still jpeg :)
21:53:54  <mikk36> 4 jpeg's to cover 1024x256
21:54:01  <mikk36> 66.4MB in total
21:54:01  <grimrc1> JohnUK89: done all that depmod stuff?
21:54:02  <Bjarni> I had to make the universal lib since it's needed in release binaries. It left me little choice ;)
21:54:22  <JohnUK89> grimrc1, dont know how <g>
21:54:33  <grimrc1> JohnUK89: doesn't the guide tell you?
21:54:37  <JohnUK89> Nope
21:54:45  <MaulingMonkey_iBook> Hehe.  Well, I can just let my iBook idle on that when it comes to it.
21:55:12  <JohnUK89> grimrc1, fancy PMing me and running me through it?
21:55:15  <grimrc1> JohnUK89: well get a better guide; anyway, you should be able to load the right module(s) for your webcam manually if you know what it uses - to test
21:55:24  <MaulingMonkey> updated from SVn dosn't seem to have done anything for rail replacement though :(
21:55:24  <Bjarni> MaulingMonkey_iBook: oh btw, if you ever need to move OpenTTD to a MacIntel, you need a universal binary as OpenTTD is not rosetta compatible... just so you know
21:55:27  <grimrc1> JohnUK89: I'm afraid I don't understand it that well myself
21:55:32  <mikk36> if i recall right it took 1 minute to save that pic in PNG :)
21:55:32  <JohnUK89> Ah okies lol
21:55:49  <grimrc1> JohnUK89: you did do the make modules; make modules_install steps though right?
21:55:52  <mikk36> and only irfanview was able to open it
21:56:05  <JohnUK89> grimrc1, never told me to...I've realised it was a crappy guide lol
21:56:16  <MaulingMonkey> road vehicle replacement also seems to be broken, I know I used it succesfully earlier though :(
21:56:27  <grimrc1> JohnUK89: oh dear; did the guide tell you to use your old .config when you configured your kernel?
21:56:32  <JohnUK89> Nope
21:56:37  <grimrc1> JohnUK89: oh dear oh dear
21:56:48  <grimrc1> JohnUK89: have you actually rebooted in to your new kernel?
21:56:54  <JohnUK89> Yeah, 2 days back
21:56:56  <JohnUK89> lol
21:56:56  <Bjarni> <MaulingMonkey>	road vehicle replacement also seems to be broken, I know I used it succesfully earlier though :( <-- renew old vehicles or autoreplace?
21:56:58  <MaulingMonkey> Same symptoms too >_>
21:57:09  <grimrc1> JohnUK89: you can boot up in to your old kernel?  do that if you can
21:57:13  <MaulingMonkey> the one with the GUI
21:57:23  <JohnUK89> grimrc1, okies, brb :)
21:57:34  *** JohnUK89 [~john@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
21:57:35  <TrueLight> night all
21:57:35  <MaulingMonkey> And I'm actually trying to downgrade existing vehicles in my savegame to test it out :P
21:57:40  <TrueLight> have some nice dreams :)
21:57:45  <grimrc1> JohnUK89: hopefully the guide had you put a link to your old kernel in grub/lilo
21:58:22  <Bjarni> MaulingMonkey: there is an issue where old vehicles fails to be replaced because GUI and the game goes out of sync. Turning it off and on again fixes it until I have found a permanent solution (I got it, it just takes a while to code)
21:58:27  <mikk36> grimrc1, u also have to leave a backup of ur old kernel then :P
21:58:32  <grimrc1> hehehe yeah
21:58:45  <grimrc1> if you really want to rice you delete it to save 3MB
21:59:06  <mikk36> spaec is no problem
21:59:09  <MaulingMonkey> Bjarni: That may be the issue here, but I cannot get it to work at all.  I have a 0% success rate :(
21:59:15  <mikk36> rather just backing it up :)
21:59:26  <Bjarni> <MaulingMonkey>	And I'm actually trying to downgrade existing vehicles in my savegame to test it out :P <-- make sure that you got enough money. It will refuse to replace if it can't do it AND you got a minimum $ left afterwards. You can set how much in the patch settings
21:59:30  <MaulingMonkey> Including replacing new road vehcs with old, old with new, or ditto with the trains
21:59:34  <MaulingMonkey> I have 5 million
21:59:42  <MaulingMonkey> I have enough money :D
21:59:56  <Bjarni> I would like that savegame
22:00:03  <Bjarni> sounds like a new issue :(
22:00:16  <MaulingMonkey> Sure thing, one sec
22:00:45  *** sayno [] has joined #openttd
22:01:09  <Bjarni> autoreplace took a whole year to code and bugfix and now 8 months after I declared it free of known bugs, new bugs shows up :(
22:01:20  *** JohnUK89 [~john@] has joined #openttd
22:01:23  *** Guest56 [] has joined #openttd
22:01:25  <grimrc1> hey JohnUK89
22:01:32  <mikk36> lol @ Bjarni :D
22:01:35  <JohnUK89> grimrc1, back in old kernel, with working webcam lol
22:01:47  <Bjarni> actually today is 8 month after I declared it free of known bugs
22:01:49  <MaulingMonkey>
22:02:00  <mikk36> mwhahahaaa :D
22:02:21  <mikk36> just so pwnt :)
22:02:26  <mikk36> no hard feelings :P
22:02:48  <Bjarni> well, people have been upset when I caused network games to desync and to crash
22:03:07  <Bjarni> but then again I fixed those issues and they didn't want the feature removed either :)
22:03:45  <MaulingMonkey> I'm also going to try reverting all my patching.  None of them *should* be affecting this, but who knows.
22:04:39  <MaulingMonkey> err, except the warning fix since I want this to compile without changing project settings :P
22:04:59  <Bjarni> this is an interesting savegame
22:05:11  <Bjarni> I got "not replacing"
22:05:21  <Bjarni> and I can't start it for some unknown reason
22:05:31  <MaulingMonkey> assert()ing?
22:05:34  <grimrc1> cool; to make a new kernel (basically): copy your old .config to the new src directory and cd in there; make oldconfig (gives you options for new features not known to your old .config); then make gconfig to get pretty menus and useful text and tweak the options (this is tweaking your new .config); now to actually make the kernel - make all - then to install the modules - make modules_install
22:05:40  <MaulingMonkey> That game was last saved with the latest SVN I believe
22:05:59  *** Gonozal_VIII [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:06:03  <MaulingMonkey> I'm certainly loading it with the latest SVN - I'll see what debug mode spits out for me too
22:06:19  <grimrc1> JohnUK89: make help - gives you some help about what options make accepts
22:06:30  <JohnUK89> okies
22:06:36  <grimrc1> make all does make bzimage and make modules
22:06:44  <grimrc1> JohnUK89: what make commands did you use last time?
22:07:27  <JohnUK89> Hang on I'll find the guide I used
22:07:30  <grimrc1> cool
22:07:52  <grimrc1> I forgot about make all so maybe you used that and it's done right
22:09:12  <Bjarni> MaulingMonkey: well, starting a new game gave the same result, so it's the trunk, not your savegame, that got issues
22:09:13  <grimrc1> also, before you do anything you apply any patches (but when it's the first kernel you're compiling you don't have any patches to apply)
22:09:16  <Bjarni> crap
22:09:28  <MaulingMonkey> :S
22:09:41  <Bjarni> when I get home tomorrow, I will drown in bug reports and people complaining and there is nothing I can do about it :(
22:09:43  *** Guest56 is now known as Gonozal_VIII
22:09:49  <MaulingMonkey> I get:  Pool: (EngineRe) couldd not allocate memory for blocks
22:09:57  <Bjarni> I have to go to bed now to get enough sleep
22:10:04  <Bjarni> I got a big day tomorrow
22:10:05  <JohnUK89> grimrc1, I'll just paste the URL to the guide
22:10:16  <Bjarni> I got a meeting with my boss
22:10:22  <grimrc1> great
22:10:31  <grimrc1> gn Bjarni
22:10:35  <MaulingMonkey> Good luck with that :-)
22:10:49  <JohnUK89> good luck Bjarni
22:10:57  <Bjarni> I think it will be ok
22:11:21  <Bjarni> I think we already agrees on what we have to talk about, so...
22:11:30  <grimrc1> gl
22:11:56  <Bjarni> 	<MaulingMonkey>	I get:  Pool: (EngineRe) couldd not allocate memory for blocks <--- which would indicate that I should look for changes in pool stuff, if any
22:12:02  <Bjarni> ok, I will do so tomorrow
22:12:07  <Bjarni> goodnight
22:12:08  *** Bjarni [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:12:18  <MaulingMonkey> Time to replace by hand :)
22:13:08  * Sacro moons the channel
22:13:15  <MaulingMonkey> :(
22:13:41  <JohnUK89> :S
22:14:04  <grimrc1> hehe
22:14:09  <grimrc1> brb
22:14:11  *** grimrc1 [] has quit [Quit: brb]
22:14:14  <lws1984> hey!
22:14:17  <lws1984> Sacro!
22:14:20  <JohnUK89> lws1984, ello
22:14:25  <lws1984> pull your freakin' pants up!
22:14:27  <lws1984> howdy JohnUK89
22:15:05  <Sacro> hey lws1984 !
22:16:12  <Sacro> god, my mp3 firmware is soooo crap
22:17:29  <Cassac> Hmm, is it a known bug about trains not going to the right checkpoints?
22:17:49  <lws1984> Sacro: ?
22:18:15  <mikk36>
22:19:18  <Sacro> lws1984: just updating rockbox :D
22:22:00  *** _4Stern_ [] has quit [Quit: ( :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: )]
22:22:30  *** Progman [] has joined #openttd
22:26:22  *** lws1984 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:26:42  <MeusH> goodnight
22:26:46  <Sacro> night MeusH
22:26:48  <JohnUK89> MeusH, nigt
22:26:50  <JohnUK89> night*
22:26:52  * mikk36 is going to make his stomach happy with 4 cheese sandwices and a can of cider :)
22:27:00  *** MeusH [] has quit [Quit: bye - quit]
22:27:00  <Sacro> ooh, that'll impress it
22:27:37  <mikk36> it will if u don't feed it long enough :P
22:28:45  *** grimrc1 [] has joined #openttd
22:29:34  <JohnUK89> grimrc1, wb
22:29:50  <grimrc1> thx
22:29:55  <grimrc1> got a lnk?
22:30:03  <JohnUK89> <there's the crappy guide I followed
22:30:41  *** Tobin [] has quit [Quit: Tobin]
22:32:18  <grimrc1> xconfig is fine too; I see he imported the old one
22:32:23  <JohnUK89> He did??
22:32:37  <JohnUK89> Aha
22:32:39  <glx> MaulingMonkey: indeed there's a nice loop when creating "EngineRe" pool (it looks like an infinite loop to me)
22:32:40  <JohnUK89> So he did :P
22:33:02  <MaulingMonkey> Fun fun.
22:33:10  <grimrc1> it looks ok - he uses make-kpkg to do basically the same stuff
22:33:29  <JohnUK89> grimrc1, so I mustne have followed it properly then :P
22:33:33  <JohnUK89> mustnt*
22:33:43  <grimrc1> what's that last step?  install the .deb?  is that nvidia graphics drivers?
22:34:15  <JohnUK89> Nope, kernel and headers
22:34:42  <JohnUK89> It then says that you need to reinstall the nvidia drivers
22:35:11  <grimrc1> why is that #7, after you've already unpacked them?
22:35:32  <JohnUK89> Don't ask me lol
22:35:48  <JohnUK89> It installed the actual kernel ok though, just some hardware stopped working
22:37:09  <JohnUK89> Would it be worth me removing the newer kernel and running through it again?
22:37:23  <grimrc1> JohnUK89: I don't see any step that sets up your modules properly
22:37:39  <JohnUK89> grimrc1, right, so it's time to find a better guide
22:37:45  <grimrc1> modules_image?  not sure if that does more than install them
22:37:53  <grimrc1> JohnUK89: no; I think you can fix it fine
22:38:22  <grimrc1> JohnUK89: as long as it boots ok; I would do an lsmod > /somefile now, so you know what modules are running now
22:38:41  <JohnUK89> right
22:39:01  <grimrc1> then when you reboot in to the new kernel, see which modules are not loaded
22:39:14  <grimrc1> you're kernel is mostly modular right (most distros are)?
22:39:35  <JohnUK89> Yeah
22:39:37  <grimrc1> if you lsmod (not to somefile) you'll see what's running
22:39:38  <JohnUK89> tons of modules
22:39:47  <grimrc1> I think he must miss out the depmod step
22:39:48  *** Mucht is now known as Mucht|zZz
22:39:58  <Sacro> eugh
22:40:05  <Sacro> probably too many modules
22:40:18  <grimrc1> and I'd do that when you've booted in to the new kernel - man depmod
22:40:20  *** XeryusTC [] has quit [Quit: So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish]
22:40:25  <JohnUK89> Sacro, you know what you're talking about, fancy running me through it properly :P
22:40:51  <blathijs> what's the problem?
22:40:58  <blathijs> Installing nvidia drivers on debian?
22:41:21  <JohnUK89> blathijs, nope, I compiled a new kernel, and the guide I followed didn't tell me how to sort out modules
22:41:31  <grimrc1> I reckon save lsmod > /somefile , reboot in to the new kernel and run depmod, then it should be fine?  if not, you can manually modprobe the right modules anyway
22:41:41  <blathijs> JohnUK89: on debian?
22:41:51  <JohnUK89> A debian variant, yeah
22:42:04  <blathijs> generally it just works, as long as your config is ok?
22:42:13  <blathijs> Does it fail to load some modules?
22:42:31  <JohnUK89> Not that I know of, no, it just doesn't load them at all
22:42:32  <blathijs> You ran a vanilla kernel before and now your own? And stuff stopped working?
22:42:38  *** Osai is now known as Osai^zZz
22:43:00  <JohnUK89> Nah
22:43:01  <Sacro> JohnUK89: yeah, but i aint a Ubuntu/debian user
22:43:15  <blathijs> I am, so I'm trying to fill in ;-p
22:43:22  <grimrc1> the impression I got in the past, is that modules.conf etc only liked to be configured for one kernel at a time, so when you first boot your new one, you need to run depmod
22:43:35  <JohnUK89> blathijs, I ran the default Ubuntu kernel, with all the modules that are set up with it
22:43:40  <JohnUK89> I then compiled from vanilla
22:43:45  <Sacro> tar -xjf, make mrproper, make menuconfig, make bzImage, make depmod, make bzImage install, make depmod install
22:43:51  <blathijs> grimrc1: sometimes, though debian generally manages in my experience
22:44:03  <blathijs> JohnUK89: ie, with the same configuration?
22:44:16  <JohnUK89> Pretty much
22:44:19  <blathijs> Sacro: neh, make-kpg kernel_image
22:44:34  <Sacro> blathijs: ooh snazzy, LFS had none of that package manager helpy kinda stuff
22:44:51  *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-83-100-224-218.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:44:51  <blathijs> Sacro: ;-)
22:45:13  <blathijs> JohnUK89: On debian, there is some script that autoloads modules. Dunno what your distro used exactly
22:46:05  <Patrick`> yes, Linux From Scratch wouldn't have bleedin' package managers
22:46:07  <Patrick`> that's the point
22:46:12  *** Ammler is now known as Ammler_pfuus
22:46:30  <grimrc1> JohnUK89: as long as your kernel build didn't fail with an obvious error, and you can boot in to the new one, it all looks fine; just need to get these new modules set up properly I think; my money's on running depmod from the new kernel
22:46:51  <JohnUK89> right, brb then, reboot
22:47:02  <JohnUK89> ack no lol
22:47:06  <Patrick`> mmkernel
22:47:11  <JohnUK89> Anything I need to before then
22:47:57  *** Rens2Sea [~Rens2Sea@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:49:10  <grimrc1> well I'd do the lsmod > /somefile for extra information later (just in case)
22:49:16  <Cassac> Hmmm is something extremly buggy with the ottd 0.4.8. Took a couple of screenshoots of a smaller bug with trains not going threw the right checkpoints but now every time i opens the openttd-folder and are about to do something my cpu hangs...
22:49:44  <grimrc1> cpu hangs?  open what?
22:49:47  <Patrick`> what OS?
22:49:50  *** Maedhros [] has quit [Quit: good night]
22:49:58  <Patrick`> it could be trying to generate a preview of a giant screenshot or something
22:51:05  <mikk36> try opening ttd from console
22:51:11  <mikk36> ottd*
22:51:31  *** Sacro [~ben@] has joined #openttd
22:51:42  <Sacro> whoops
22:52:05  <Sacro> "shutdown now"... does exactly what it says on the can
22:52:17  <Cassac> grimrc1, sorry my lady called
22:52:20  <JohnUK89> lmao Sacro
22:52:40  <Sacro> and my 6th mp3 player has broke
22:52:48  <JohnUK89> Ouch :S
22:52:53  *** Cassac- [] has joined #openttd
22:52:55  *** Cassac [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
22:53:16  <grimrc1> phew; do you try and hardware hack them back to life?
22:54:07  <grimrc1> I'm proud to announce that openttd screensaver wrapper-script has no serious known bugs left:
22:54:23  <JohnUK89> grimrc1, what does that do then?
22:54:37  <blathijs> grimrc1: w00t
22:54:53  <grimrc1> it let's you use openttd as a screensaver; it's actually quite complicated to write a script to load openttd and exit gracefully
22:54:55  <Sacro> well im currently running GPL firmware, cos the iRiver ones are sooo rubbish
22:55:06  *** tokai [] has quit [Quit: It's like, wah.]
22:55:21  <grimrc1> oh x11 only btw
22:55:23  <JohnUK89> Sacro, and what formats does it play/not play not it's broke?
22:55:26  <JohnUK89> now*
22:56:13  *** Dred_furst [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
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22:56:56  <JohnUK89> grimrc1, the onlt opetions I changed in my .config from default are the ones that guide told me to change
22:57:00  <JohnUK89> options*
22:57:06  <JohnUK89> only*
22:57:14  <grimrc1> yeah; I think it's just a depmod thing
22:57:27  <JohnUK89> Well I'll do it when I next reboot
22:57:28  <Sacro> JohnUK89: it plays MP3, WMA, WAV, OGG
22:57:41  <JohnUK89> Sacro, noce, how about FLAC support? ;-)
22:57:44  <JohnUK89> nice*
22:57:48  <grimrc1> I haven't got any other ideas, it's safe to do, and everything in that guide looks right
22:57:50  <JohnUK89> damnit my typos are bad tonight
22:57:57  <Sacro> dunno if anyones ported the FLAC codec
22:58:14  <JohnUK89> brb need a drink
22:58:51  <grimrc1> oh JohnUK89: how old was your last kernel?
22:59:49  <CIA-1> glx * r6059 /trunk/engine.c: -Fix(r6049): FOR_ALL was not use to not skip invalid items, so really don't skip invalid items :)
22:59:55  <glx> MaulingMonkey: it works now
22:59:57  <Sacro> JohnUK89: yeah, has flac and wavepak too
23:00:14  <MaulingMonkey> \o/
23:00:20  <grimrc1> how much did it cost?
23:00:30  <MaulingMonkey> Thank you kindly :-)
23:01:44  <Sacro> grimrc1: talking to me/
23:02:10  *** lws1984 [] has joined #openttd
23:02:21  <Sacro> oh noes!
23:02:56  <Sacro> grr, looks like they dont do the iRiver H340 no more
23:03:48  <Sacro> hmm, nearest for similar price is the 60GB ipod
23:04:09  <Cassac-> Hmm lookes like it's a big png the yes.. but when deleteing it from cmd i get the saying that i don't have access to it.. still it's my file..
23:04:50  <Cassac-> Made it work... don't ask my how used the same command :P
23:05:11  <mikk36> me, not my
23:05:28  <mikk36> and learn comma sign :)
23:05:57  <Sacro> might have to go for an iAudio
23:07:48  *** JohnUK89 [~john@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:08:39  <MaulingMonkey> !!!! You can now build on steep corner slopes?
23:09:09  *** Ammler_pfuus [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:09:11  <Sacro> MaulingMonkey: yeah
23:09:34  * MaulingMonkey gets stuck in an infinite loop repeatedly building and destroying rail and road on such tiles
23:09:37  *** Ammler [] has joined #openttd
23:09:53  <glx> it's not an infinite loop
23:10:03  <Sacro> glx: it is
23:10:10  <Sacro> unless he dies :P
23:10:20  <glx> no money decrease
23:10:27  <MaulingMonkey> muahahaha, that's what cheats are for!!!
23:10:31  <MaulingMonkey> And I have 5 million.
23:10:36  <MaulingMonkey> Actually, 6.5.
23:10:40  *** Ammler is now known as Ammler_pfuus
23:10:57  <MaulingMonkey> And I just put the fixed train replacement to good use on my remaining fleet :)
23:10:58  <Sacro> glx: oh yes!
23:11:07  <Sacro> but if he has money incoming
23:11:09  <Patrick`> you've been able to build on slopes since forever
23:11:13  <Patrick`> or is this somethin' new?
23:11:14  <Sacro> he could keep going for 1100 years
23:11:22  <Sacro> Patrick`: steep slopes
23:11:32  <Patrick`> .. what are they?
23:11:34  *** JohnUK89 [~john@] has joined #openttd
23:11:40  <OwenS> Ones which differ by 2 heights
23:11:42  <Patrick`> I know of flat and slope.
23:11:43  <Sacro> errm, steep slopes!
23:11:44  <OwenS> Only on corners
23:11:46  <JohnUK89> Stoopid thing
23:11:48  <Patrick`> oh, is this in mini-in?
23:11:54  <glx> nightly
23:11:54  <OwenS> Trunk
23:12:03  <Patrick`> sweet jesus. I've not been payingf attention
23:12:15  <Patrick`> how come they never showed up in any of the maps I've been playing
23:12:27  <OwenS> They did
23:12:31  <OwenS> Hang on while I find a picture
23:12:34  <Patrick`> which consist of TGP flat and "very smooth" ... so that explains it
23:12:35  <Eddi|zuHause2> gnah... yast is one big pile of crap...
23:12:49  <Patrick`> so what, can you put tunnels on them or ...
23:12:55  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause2: hehe, hence why i dont touch SuSE
23:13:13  <JohnUK89> I'm a fan of apt-get lol
23:13:13  <Sacro> even when you edit stuff manually, it changes it back
23:13:27  <Sacro> hmm, bluetooth media player
23:13:28  <JohnUK89> love it :P
23:13:32  <Eddi|zuHause2> if i understood things right, they completely replaced the yast core with 10.1
23:13:33  <Sacro> i love pacman
23:13:41  <Sacro> though yum and apt-get seem ok
23:13:44  <Patrick`> I gotta play more
23:13:47  <OwenS> <- Patrick`, 30, 23, 29 and 27 on that
23:14:01  <Cassac-> <--- Can anyone tell me if it is a bug or if i made the checkpoints wrong? ;)
23:14:07  <Eddi|zuHause2> but that seemed to have made things worse, as it was unfinished
23:14:19  <JohnUK89> Eddi|zuHause2, yikes!
23:14:36  <OwenS> Patrick`: Understand now?
23:14:54  <Patrick`> yes, those have been around since forever
23:15:02  <Patrick`> I just didn't think of them as steep slopes
23:15:09  <OwenS> You can build on them now
23:15:13  <Sacro> hehe, inbox/outbox
23:15:15  <Patrick`> neat.
23:15:23  <Patrick`> yeah, they always caused a blockage
23:15:27  <MaulingMonkey> This will make arctic a lot less painful when I'm trying not to terraform too much :-)
23:15:27  <JohnUK89> Sacro: I've not used yum yet, I had a Fedora Core 5 install before you sent me Ubuntu but I didn't have a net connection on it
23:15:34  <Patrick`> if I just dragged a line across the land without caring, it stopped at them
23:15:44  <Patrick`> neat, now I can do track ANYWHERE
23:16:00  <JohnUK89> Except through transmitters <g>
23:16:07  <MaulingMonkey> and water
23:16:16  <JohnUK89> MaulingMonkey, bridges :P
23:16:33  <Cassac-> ;)
23:16:41  <MaulingMonkey> Pssch, what happens when you want to go under another bridge eh?
23:16:43  <MaulingMonkey> What then?
23:16:47  <Cassac-> Sacro, you see something wrong?
23:17:03  *** Brianetta [] has quit [Quit: Tschüß]
23:17:07  <Sacro> Cassac-: yes, youve used jpeg instead of png
23:17:08  <JohnUK89> MaulingMonkey, you terraform, and spend an absolute bomb :P
23:17:18  <Cassac-> Sacro, hehe.. no it's a png
23:17:27  <MaulingMonkey> Oh yeah, towns where the local authorities hate you will still block too
23:17:43  <Cassac-> ahh
23:17:44  <Sacro> wow, looks terrible
23:17:55  <Cassac-> Sacro, badongo must have altered it
23:18:50  <Cassac-> Sacro, when you click on >> View picture in original size << you will get the png version.. don't ask me why... :P
23:19:18  <JohnUK89> why? :P
23:19:35  *** Ammler_ [] has joined #openttd
23:19:36  <Cassac-> wich seems to look terrible because it is altered back from jpg or something.. starnge..
23:19:44  *** blathijs [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:20:24  <Eddi|zuHause2> well... i get a "file could not be retrieved" there...
23:20:47  <Cassac-> Sacro, But to the point is it something wrong with how i set up the checkpoints or is it a bug in the game? It is strange because half of the time it is going to the right checkpoint the other half thrugh "Maiz"
23:20:54  <Sacro> hmm
23:21:03  <Sacro> it seems like ist just folliwing orders
23:21:35  <Cassac-> Sacro, No it should go through "Oil"
23:22:14  <Eddi|zuHause2> Cassac-: look in the order window
23:22:22  <Eddi|zuHause2> it is not following the "goto oil" order
23:22:42  <Eddi|zuHause2> but the goto load order
23:23:15  <Cassac-> Eddi|zuHause2, yes because sometimes it is not changeing it when going the right way..
23:24:07  *** Ammler_pfuus [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:24:16  <Eddi|zuHause2> if it is not set to the "goto oil" order, there is no way you can expect it to go there...
23:25:10  *** blathijs [] has joined #openttd
23:26:21  *** Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:26:49  <JohnUK89> wb blathijs
23:33:38  *** SpComb^ [] has joined #openttd
23:34:51  *** glx [] has quit [Quit: Bye]
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23:36:07  <grimrc1> back
23:37:14  <JohnUK89> grimrc1, wb
23:37:18  <Sacro> argh!
23:37:32  <JohnUK89> will be rebooting in a couple of minutes, will let you know how it goes
23:37:39  *** Osai^zZz [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:37:54  <JohnUK89> Sacro ?
23:38:03  <grimrc1> how old was your last kernel JohnUK89?
23:38:20  <JohnUK89> grimrc1, 2.6.15-23
23:38:41  <grimrc1> oh cool; just that upgrading from those 2.4 kernels needs more work
23:38:45  <JohnUK89> And I updated to
23:39:12  <JohnUK89> Aah
23:39:30  <JohnUK89> I don't fancy having to upgrade from 2.6 to 2.8 when it turns up
23:39:47  <grimrc1> it'll be ok; I'm sure you'll know the ropes really well by then
23:40:02  <JohnUK89> I dunno lol
23:40:24  <JohnUK89> Mind you, I have no reason to use winblows so I'll be in Linux all the time now
23:41:54  <grimrc1> lucky you!  I am too btw; got wine working?
23:42:03  <JohnUK89> Yeah :)
23:42:28  <grimrc1> well you really are sorted
23:43:04  <JohnUK89> Yeah, all me Windows games work in either plain old wine or cedega
23:43:42  <grimrc1> I started using Linux properly around 2.2.x/2.4.x; the only annoying part was package management, but that's improved leaps & bounds and I like Gentoo's now
23:44:14  <JohnUK89> I have to say I like Debian/Ubuntu's package management
23:45:19  <grimrc1> yeah I used to like Debian's but they got stuck on old packages even in the unstable release
23:45:36  <JohnUK89> Yeah, Ubuntu isn't as bad with that
23:45:38  <grimrc1> and I do like ricing with source code in Gentoo
23:45:42  <JohnUK89> lmao
23:45:53  <JohnUK89> I don't risk that :P

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