Log for #openttd on 16th October 2006:
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00:06:35  <ZeromusMougl> hey all :D
00:06:40  <ZeromusMougl> I am trying to figure this game out D:
00:06:49  <ZeromusMougl> is there ANYTHING that is like a start-from-beginning newbie guide?
00:07:16  <ZeromusMougl> I am having problems like "how the hell do I get the trains to pick up maize" and things like that but there seems to be no basic beginner's info :(
00:07:26  <Brianetta> ZeromusMougl: There's us, and there's the Wiki
00:07:35  <ZeromusMougl> The wiki is too advanced D:
00:07:44  <ZeromusMougl> I've been reading a ton of it
00:07:54  <Brianetta>
00:08:12  <Brianetta> If there's something specific, ask us
00:08:14  <Born_Acorn> Most of the Wiki assumes the player as played TTD already.
00:08:35  <ZeromusMougl> yeah, the "newbies" stuff just tells me how to install that. I got that part down ^^;
00:09:21  <Brianetta> For example, to pick up maize, the station has to be near the maize producing industry.
00:09:31  <Born_Acorn> (The Farm!)
00:09:37  <Brianetta> Once built, a train must have wagons which can hold maize, and then must stop there.
00:09:58  <Brianetta> Depending on game settings, the first stop might yield nothing.
00:10:02  <Brianetta> The second, should.
00:10:22  <ZeromusMougl> yeah see i have that set up but no maize is appearing at the station. The station is RIGHT next to the farmhouse
00:10:36  <Brianetta> Has a train been there?
00:10:46  <Brianetta> And if one has, did it have maize wagons?
00:10:54  <ZeromusMougl> Yes. It's sitting there "Loading/Unloading" now :(
00:11:08  <Born_Acorn> Have you tried Full Load?
00:11:25  <Born_Acorn> Maize wagons behind the train?
00:11:36  <ZeromusMougl> Let me triple check that they're Maize wagons
00:11:44  <Brianetta> Click the station.  Check its ratings.  If it doesn't have a rating listed fo rmaize, it's not going to get any.
00:11:54  <Born_Acorn> Click the train info, then capacities to make sue
00:12:19  <Brianetta> It does seem rather complex once one comes to explain it
00:12:27  <Born_Acorn> (Train info being the piece of paper in the bottom right of the Train window.
00:12:28  <Born_Acorn> )
00:12:51  <Born_Acorn> Brianetta, a lot of newbies people don't realise trains are built in
00:12:55  <Born_Acorn> depots
00:12:57  <Born_Acorn> even.
00:12:58  <ZeromusMougl> hmm, I guess "Food Wagon" doesn't pick up Maize?
00:13:05  <ZeromusMougl> yeah it took me a while to figure out the depot thing, heh
00:13:06  <Brianetta> No
00:13:08  <Born_Acorn> No, that's for food. :p
00:13:11  <Brianetta> Food wagons take processed food
00:13:14  <ZeromusMougl> but maize IS food haha
00:13:16  <ZeromusMougl> alright
00:13:19  <ZeromusMougl> that makes sense then!
00:13:31  <Born_Acorn> Maize goes to the Food Processing Plant where it becomes food. :p
00:13:52  <Brianetta> There's no guess-work with cargos.  They each have names, rather than classes.
00:14:01  <Serriaromeo> for a total noob,  temperate is probbaly easier, the cargos are simpler
00:14:02  <ZeromusMougl> Now, I don't see "Maize Wagon" on the list D:
00:14:05  <Brianetta> Thus, maize != food, and rubber != goods
00:14:15  <Brianetta> Hopper?
00:14:41  <Brianetta> First off, are you using any custom add-ins?
00:15:06  <ZeromusMougl> naw just the vanilla, non-nightly openttd
00:15:11  <ZeromusMougl> I tried making it a grain hopper
00:15:17  <Born_Acorn> They call it a Grain Hopper
00:15:21  <Serriaromeo> boxcar, hit the 2 boxes in teh train window while it's in the depot and select maize
00:15:22  <Born_Acorn> Even though it's for Maize.
00:15:27  <ZeromusMougl> I might have to BRB though thanks for the help :D
00:16:01  <ZeromusMougl> Yay it's transporting! OK so I'm FINALLY starting to get the hang of this, heh
00:16:09  <ZeromusMougl> thanks for your help i'll come chill a bit later :)
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00:30:27  <Serriaromeo> what would be the best way to check to see if a player has any signs in a game?  for_all_signs(start); if owner ==playerid ....?
00:31:00  <jez> Brianetta: I'm interested that you said you took those MIDI samples you sent me from the DOS version of the game
00:31:11  <Serriaromeo> nvm, for_all_signs wouldnt work like that
00:31:24  <jez> Brianetta: if so, your MIDI extraction software apparently made the same mistakes as that used to extract it for the Windows TTD version
00:31:31  <Brianetta> jez: That was the first version I had
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00:31:56  <Brianetta> Didn't get the Windows one until a couple of years ago
00:32:00  <jez> yeah
00:32:06  <jez> but the melody in easy driver is incorrect
00:32:16  <jez> the 3 minute silence in that other one is still there
00:32:24  <jez> so independently, your conversion software has made the same mistakes
00:32:26  <jez> curious
00:32:42  <jez> obviously the TTD DOS binary does something to clean up its compressed MIDIs
00:32:52  <jez> so ripping the output via dosbox results in a correct MIDI
00:33:55  <glx> if only I know what compression algorithm it used
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00:34:07  <jez> by tomorrow evening I'll have all the GMs ripped correctly
00:34:15  <jez> i can replace the horrible Windows TTD ones
00:35:05  <jez> going to bed for now though :-)
00:35:17  <MeusH> goodnight
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02:04:49  <ZeromusMougl> Is this still working?
02:04:52  <ZeromusMougl> oh yay
02:05:19  <ZeromusMougl> ok question, the wiki wasn't clear on this: Chris Sawyer released the source code to the game? Because of the enthusiasts...?
02:05:40  <ln-> Chris Sawyer never released any source.
02:06:30  <ZeromusMougl> So it was all reverse engineered?
02:07:01  <ln-> Yes and no.
02:07:27  <ZeromusMougl> Explain? :)
02:07:53  <ln-> Significant parts were reverse-engineered, but probably not *all*.
02:12:18  <ZeromusMougl> Ah well by "all" I meant "what was changed". Interesting. Pretty impressive, then!
02:14:08  <ZeromusMougl> ok gameplay question: as a general rule should I be building maximum length trains or should I be worrying about things like what the output of the place is, length of route, etc?
02:15:16  <ZeromusMougl> the place = whatever I'm hauling from
02:15:36  <ln-> i'm not an expert, but i'd say pay more attention to the rating of the source station, i.e. try to make sure there is always at least one train being loaded.
02:16:13  <ZeromusMougl> I like JUST started. So far I have built two trains with two routs which have two stations each to pull cargo from one to the other ^^;
02:16:21  <ZeromusMougl> I'm pretty noob at this :0
02:16:22  <ZeromusMougl> :)
02:16:47  <ZeromusMougl> Dizamn, tho. This Maize stuff makes some pretty intense cash :o
02:16:55  <ln-> having two trains per route should help you achieve what i described above.
02:17:14  <ZeromusMougl> should the routes be a loop, or should I have like a switching area halfway, or...?
02:19:51  <ln-> build one or two sections with two rails in parallel somewhere along the route. (and appropriate signals)
02:20:48  <ln-> loops... hmm, well that could work with cities and passenger routes.
02:23:13  <ZeromusMougl> yay I'm turning a profit! Made 19k last year 8)
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02:33:11  <ZeromusMougl> ok this is strange
02:33:29  <ZeromusMougl> I made a new route, new train, and gave it orders and now it's just sitting in the station when I tell it to go
02:34:11  <ZeromusMougl> would there be a problem using the same station for dropoff for two routes/
02:34:12  <ZeromusMougl> ?
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02:37:00  <ZeromusMougl> RAGE
02:37:12  <ZeromusMougl> I still don't get this game :cry:
02:37:26  <ZeromusMougl> apparently building a new station fixed that last problem
02:37:42  <ZeromusMougl> but now the train is doing that stupid thing where it sits at the destination indefinately "loading/unloading"
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02:37:59  <ZeromusMougl> and the subsidy I was trying to get JUST wore off :cry:
02:38:31  <ln-> it's all very logical.
02:38:43  <ZeromusMougl> ok I think I got load/unload mixed up again, grr
02:38:50  <ZeromusMougl> I don't like how it does the orders backwards :(
02:39:44  <ln-> just wait until you go for a walk outside and notice yourself thinking about red and green numbers rising from the ground.
02:40:01  <ZeromusMougl> haha
02:40:04  <ln-> normally you don't need to set neither load or unload.
02:40:09  <ZeromusMougl> I've played a lot of Roller Coaster Tycoon
02:40:33  <ZeromusMougl> and mostly I enjoyed making my parks giant cash rakes
02:40:43  <ZeromusMougl> so naturally, once I found out about this, it had high appeal :)
02:47:22  <ZeromusMougl> ok this one is hopefully easy: I want to go from a fruit plantation to a food factory, do I need to build near the plantation, or the farmhouse?
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02:57:28  <Bob_Slob> can anyone help me out w/ a dedicated server?
02:59:10  <ZeromusMougl> what kind?
03:00:08  <Bob_Slob> just an issue with my server.. I have one up, it's listed in on the website, but in-game it's listed as offline.. I'm not sure where what to do
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07:25:53  <MeusH> hi
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08:05:53  <peter1138> hi
08:08:50  <Darkvater> morning
08:09:18  <peter1138> mr 'vater
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08:20:47  <Darkvater> blathijs: ping
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08:27:45  <MiHaMiX> morning DV
08:29:33  <Darkvater> morning
08:29:44  <kevsthabest> hey here, just dropping by to see if anything interesting is oing on
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08:32:49  <Darkvater> hi kevsthabest
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08:33:56  <kevsthabest> hi:) gotta say, openttd is advancing quite nicely.. (been keeping track of it for a year or so now)
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08:35:57  <MeusH> goodnbye
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09:02:25  <kevsthabest> not a very lively bunch up at this time..
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09:11:18  <Darkvater> phew he is gone, we can chat now ;p
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09:21:19  <peter1138> our town growth needs adjusting
09:21:23  <peter1138> it's too explosive currently
09:24:46  <Darkvater> he lots of things needs adjustment(s)
09:26:04  <peter1138> well yes
09:26:11  <peter1138> like bjarni's guis ;p
09:26:29  <peter1138> (well, the code behind them)
09:29:49  <Darkvater> !seen bjarni
09:29:51  <_42_> Darkvater, Bjarni ( was last seen quitting #openttd 21 hours 35 minutes ago (15.10. 11:53) stating "Quit: Leaving" after spending 1 hour 48 minutes there.
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09:33:52  <peter1138> hmm
09:34:11  <peter1138> DrawStringMultiLine would be more useful if it returned the number of lines (or pixel rows) that were drawn
09:35:31  <Darkvater> what does it return now?
09:36:29  <peter1138> void
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09:48:20  <Darkvater> you would need to refactor that function pretty heavily
09:48:37  <Darkvater> frmatlinebrakes or whatever it is is at fault :)
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10:26:35  <CIA-1> peter1138 * r6788 /trunk/ (functions.h misc.c order_cmd.c vehicle.c): - Codechange: Add and use a function to test if a string ID is a custom name.
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11:31:34  <jez> Is it possible to get desert or arctic towns to grow at all?  If so, how?
11:32:11  <peter1138> supply with food
11:32:15  <peter1138> and water for desert
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11:33:03  <jez> tried that
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11:33:14  <jez> supplying with water makes no difference, and not all desert towns have water towers anyway
11:34:07  <Tron_> you need water _and_ food for towns in the desert
11:34:16  <jez> mmm, i think i've tried that too
11:34:23  <jez> i had water, food and a passenger service to one town
11:34:26  <jez> it stayed the same size
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11:36:08  <Brianetta> You still need more stations, like any town
11:36:20  <Brianetta> The population don't get horny unless there's a transport infrastructure
11:37:06  <jez> it didnt move at all
11:37:11  <jez> there was absolutely no population change
11:37:17  <jez> there should've been some
11:37:36  <peter1138> well, it's possible it's broken...
11:37:56  <Brianetta> Do you need water and food every month, or just every year~?
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11:38:17  <jez> can you fund a water tower as a new industry?
11:38:26  <jez> otherwise there'll be some desert towns you can never grow
11:38:27  <Brianetta> I've had trouble growing desert towns, to be honest
11:38:35  <Brianetta> You can fund a water tower, yes
11:38:44  <Brianetta> although it's *really* picky about where you can place one
11:39:00  <Brianetta> I still haven't figured out why you can put them in some places but not others.
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11:42:34  <Darkvater> blathijs: mempools, time soon I hope..current half-job is not really acceptable
11:42:52  <peter1138> what's up with mempools?
11:42:59  <peter1138> (do they not work? heh)
11:43:05  <Darkvater> peter1138: you are much too kind :) What happened to the other sorters? :P
11:43:18  <peter1138> hmm?
11:43:29  <peter1138> name sorters?
11:43:40  <Darkvater> Brianetta: you can only place watertowers on top of houses
11:44:04  <peter1138> which is silly
11:44:09  <Darkvater> peter1138: town-sorter, station-sorter, they all use the global var :)
11:44:19  <peter1138> oh, yes
11:44:20  <peter1138> , ok
11:44:23  <peter1138> i'll sort them out too
11:44:23  <Brianetta> on top of houses?
11:44:27  <Darkvater> peter1138: truelight started reworking them, but quit halfway through and it's pretty messy now
11:44:30  <Darkvater> Brianetta: yes
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11:44:38  <peter1138> truelight's always quitting ;)
11:44:38  <Brianetta> Darkvater: That's so daft I'd never have found it.  Thanks!
11:44:56  <Darkvater> yeah I couldn't figureit out either so I had to look at the code :)
11:45:30  <jez> Brianetta: on top of houses was the first thing i thought of...
11:45:38  <jez> :-)
11:45:43  <peter1138> hmm, signnamesorter
11:45:47  <peter1138> that doesn't cache
11:45:56  <Brianetta> jez: That's mental.  Nothing else can be built on houses... or so I believed...
11:45:56  <peter1138> oh, yes it does
11:45:58  <peter1138> sorry
11:46:20  <Darkvater> afaik all sorters were copied from the town-name sorter
11:46:36  <Brianetta> Sounds like an if statement has its logic backwards.
11:46:47  <Eddi|zuHause2> that kinda screams for abstraction and templating, doesn't it?
11:46:51  <CIA-1> miham * r6790 /trunk/lang/ (catalan.txt danish.txt italian.txt):
11:46:51  <CIA-1> WebTranslator2 update to 2006-10-16 13:46:16
11:46:51  <CIA-1> catalan - 3 changed by arnaullv (3)
11:46:51  <CIA-1> danish - 6 fixed, 61 changed by ThomasA (67)
11:46:51  <CIA-1> italian - 5 fixed by sidew (5)
11:47:02  <Brianetta> One that was meant to stop you building on houses instead enforces it....
11:48:22  <Darkvater> Brianetta: even TTD had that, so we're only following suite
11:48:25  <Darkvater> suite?
11:48:30  <Brianetta> suit
11:48:54  <Brianetta> Darkvater: I accuse it of bugdom.
11:49:07  <peter1138> me too
11:50:18  <jez> Brianetta: also i just managed to build one on top of an office block in TTD DOS
11:50:57  <jez> Also, if anyone hasn't tested my patch v3, please do so
11:50:58  <jez>
11:51:17  <Darkvater> face?
11:51:20  <jez> yup
11:51:33  <Darkvater> I'll pass, sorry jez
11:53:31  <Brianetta> Darkvater: Perhaps you should post a poll to the OpenTTD forum
11:53:45  <Brianetta> Get the opinion of the unwashed masses
11:53:51  <Darkvater> no I was just curious what die-hard TTD(P)-ers thought
11:54:00  <Brianetta> Oh
11:54:06  <Brianetta> Ask them on their forum (:
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11:56:38  <peter1138> clearly they don't care
11:56:57  <jez> does anyone else think the new depot icons are unintuative and look rather ugly/out of place?
11:57:27  <Eddi|zuHause2> jez: you got an alternative?
11:57:36  <jez> yeah, remove them :-P
11:57:42  <peter1138> blank buttons?
11:57:53  <jez> no buttons
11:58:00  <peter1138> hm
11:58:02  <Darkvater> which icons are those?
11:58:11  <peter1138> so how do you remove things?
11:58:27  <jez> the ones that were added for selling a carriage, train, and replacing or selling all trains in a depot
11:58:40  <jez> you also have 2 push buttons and two drag targets, but all 4 look the same
11:59:12  <Darkvater> only autoreplace is ugly imho
11:59:49  <peter1138> and we've got more images to choose from there
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12:00:56  <Darkvater> if only bjarni wuld show up his danish-ass
12:01:48  <jez> why do you need bjarni?
12:02:33  <Darkvater> to sync
12:02:38  <jez> eh?
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12:04:50  <jez> Vista will be worth paying money for
12:04:55  <jez> look at the feature list:
12:04:58  <jez> - no Monad
12:05:01  <jez> - no WinFS
12:05:03  <jez> - more DRM
12:05:11  <jez> - more extensive artificial restrictions!
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12:06:54  <Brianetta> I saw Vista for the first time on Saturday, at our Linux Install Day.  The irony.
12:07:01  *** Frostregen40 is now known as Frostregen__
12:07:02  <Brianetta> Now we have a copy of RC1 at work.
12:07:20  <Brianetta> It looks pretty, but it acts like XP, only slower.
12:07:45  <jez> I just hope the small-penised can manage to resist getting Vista to prove how manly and good at leadership they are
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12:19:10  <Darkvater> Brianetta: it's VISTA !!!
12:19:22  <Darkvater> dammit I needa buy it even if it were just the name
12:19:59  <peter1138> the problem with using vs2005 as a code editor
12:20:08  <peter1138> is you can't press ESC and then use / to search
12:20:13  <jez> i preferred longhorn
12:20:21  <jez> if you have a shorthorn, you can buy a longhorn
12:20:43  <Darkvater> peter1138: hehe
12:20:55  <Brianetta> It's Vista
12:20:57  <Brianetta> It's a pile
12:24:25  <jez> of?
12:24:28  <jez> gold?
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12:40:16  <Naksu> jez: no
12:40:24  <Naksu> of pure awesomeness
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12:43:32  <jez> Gawd
12:43:38  <jez> the interface sure is getting cluttered
12:43:41  <peter1138> hmm?
12:43:58  <peter1138> of vista?
12:44:01  <jez> the depots and new vehicles interface is incredibly cluttered
12:44:07  <jez> buttons and crap all over the place
12:44:10  <jez> most unnecessary
12:44:20  <jez> i mean do you REALLY need a 'vehicles', 'wagons', 'both' selector?
12:44:50  <peter1138> you don't have to update from 0.4.8
12:45:02  <jez> that's a non-answer
12:46:16  <Darkvater> I already mentioned this to bjarni and he is thinking about a new design
12:46:24  <jez> what kind of new design
12:46:27  <Darkvater> because indeed it looks really bad
12:46:40  <Darkvater> for the window and selectors if needed
12:47:29  <jez> and perhaps for the drag target widgets
12:47:34  <jez> because at the moment they look like push buttons
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12:50:58  <Darkvater> what is the suggestion?
12:51:38  <jez> A flat button with a dotted red border?  i dunno
12:52:07  <peter1138> *sigh*
12:54:20  <peter1138> attempting to get vs2003 to open a web project that was copied across from somewhere else
12:54:23  <peter1138> PITA
12:54:49  <peter1138> ah, 5th time lucky
12:55:10  <Darkvater> jez: cause you know, bitching is always very easy :)
12:55:35  <jez> yes, and persuading someone to commit something to trunk is very difficult :-)
12:56:18  <Darkvater> :)
12:57:31  <jez> !seen truelight
12:57:31  <_42_> jez, truelight is on #openttd.tgp right now.
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13:08:42  <jez> i have a question
13:08:53  <jez> when a train's in a depot, its 'go to depot' button becomes a 'clone train' button
13:09:04  <jez> the tooltip says something like 'ctrl-click to share orders'
13:09:22  <jez> what does that mean?  even when i don't ctrl-click, the cloned train has the same orders
13:09:39  <hylje> yes
13:09:50  <glx> without ctrl the order are copied
13:09:57  <hylje> shared orders mean that several trains use the same orders
13:10:03  <hylje> even if you modify it
13:10:22  <jez> hmm
13:10:29  <jez> is there a way to use 'shared orders' after cloning the train?
13:10:34  <jez> to assign shared orders to a train?
13:10:37  <hylje> yes
13:10:44  <hylje> empty the order list
13:10:52  <glx> goto then ctrl click on a train
13:10:54  <hylje> control-click on another vehicle
13:10:56  <jez> ah
13:11:03  <hylje> yes
13:11:11  <jez> but there's no obvious indicator that the orders are shared when looking at the orders
13:11:15  <jez> maybe they could be coloured
13:11:26  <glx> the last line says it
13:11:54  <jez> i see
13:11:57  <jez> still a bit too easy to miss
13:14:29  <Brianetta> The last line says it, and the train button at the bottom shows you with which other trains the order is shared
13:14:40  <Brianetta> at least, if you use the nightlies
13:15:02  <jez> yes
13:15:03  <jez> i see that
13:15:12  <jez> well
13:15:16  <jez> 'the same schedule'
13:15:21  <jez> might be unshared, identical orders
13:15:25  <Brianetta> No
13:15:34  <Brianetta> Shared only
13:15:47  <Brianetta> unsahred, identical orders are separate lists
13:16:47  <jez> hmm
13:16:53  <jez> i vote for a change of that tooltip then
13:17:09  <jez> Show all vehicles that have a shared schedule
13:19:25  <peter1138> hmm
13:19:32  <peter1138> running this game with the files over SMB sucks
13:19:45  <peter1138> at least, i assume that's the reason
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13:20:06  <jez> peter1138: could you check in that language change?
13:21:04  <jez> STR_VEH_WITH_SHARED_ORDERS_LIST_TIP                             :{BLACK}Show all vehicles that have a shared schedule
13:22:39  *** Belugas_Gone is now known as Belugas
13:25:21  <jez> Belugas: could you check in that language change? :-)
13:30:14  <Brianetta> jez: That's still misleading
13:30:36  <jez> not really
13:30:37  <Brianetta> It doesn't show all vehicles that have a shared schedule, only those vehicles which share this specific schedule.
13:30:45  <jez> ok then
13:30:52  <jez> STR_VEH_WITH_SHARED_ORDERS_LIST_TIP                             :{BLACK}Show all vehicles that share this schedule
13:31:04  <Brianetta> That's much better
13:38:20  <MiHaMiX> jez: what are you translating?
13:38:47  <peter1138> bjarni to english, i think
13:38:54  <MiHaMiX> :DD
13:39:10  <peter1138> dunno how long that string's been there
13:41:36  <jez> peter1138: yeah, it could do with the update
13:41:37  <jez> check it in?
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13:45:19  <jez> what in the name of god
13:45:23  <jez> there's a blimp flying over the map
13:47:29  <Eddi|zuHause2> where do you get a blimp from?
13:47:57  <jez> i just zoomed out
13:48:03  <jez> there's a grey blimp randomly flying over
13:48:03  <jez> heh
13:48:29  <Eddi|zuHause2> you mean the zepellin from the disaster?
13:48:39  <Eddi|zuHause2> that's not a blimp ;)
13:49:23  <jez>
13:49:36  <jez> havent seen that before
13:51:08  <Naksu> it's probably from a grf
13:51:37  <peter1138> no, it's just one of the disasters
13:52:51  <jez> i didn't get a disaster occuring
13:53:03  <peter1138> do you have an airport?
13:53:56  <Eddi|zuHause2> it's still a zeppelin (i think that's the spelling), not a blimp
13:54:09  <Eddi|zuHause2> a blimp is only a balloon shaped as a zeppelin
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13:54:57  <Eddi|zuHause2> while a real zeppelin has a solid structure, supporting its shape
13:55:34  <jez> yeah, but blimp sounds more funny
13:56:37  <Eddi|zuHause2> i could call you idiot, it sounds funny also
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13:58:23  <peter1138> so how does a zepellin go up & down?
13:58:56  <Eddi|zuHause2> a zeppelin has engines, like a plane, only you can turn them into different directions
13:59:12  <Born_Acorn> bleh.
13:59:14  <hylje> afaik zeppelins used air to influence their weight
13:59:25  <Born_Acorn> The cheat window doesn't work on my laptop
13:59:37  <Born_Acorn> I can't test all of AV8!
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14:00:00  <Cybertinus> hello
14:00:16  <glx> Born_Acorn: ctrl-alt-win-C fails too?
14:00:25  <Cybertinus> I need a little advice about making a railroad station more efficient
14:00:39  <Born_Acorn> Ooh. That works
14:01:46  <Cybertinus> I have a 9-track rail-way station. It has 2 entrances and 2 exits. I already have long exits, so the trains doesn't block everything when they are trying to leave
14:01:48  <Born_Acorn> thanks!
14:02:07  <Cybertinus> but there can only leave 1 train, at a moment. But I have 2 exits
14:02:28  <Cybertinus> is there a way so there can leave 2 trains at the same time?
14:02:58  <Eddi|zuHause2> sounds like the common "i need PBS" problem ;)
14:03:48  <Cybertinus> I don't know the common "I need PBS" problem :)
14:05:01  <jez> <hylje> afaik zeppelins used air to influence their weight
14:05:08  <jez> ^ IOW, like a hot air balloon
14:10:05  <Belugas>
14:10:08  <Belugas> not air
14:10:10  <Belugas> hydrogen
14:10:45  <jez> ah yes
14:10:48  <jez> hence the explosion
14:11:21  <hylje> Belugas: mainly hydrogen, with air to make the thing heavier
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14:14:25  <peter1138> pump more air in or output?
14:14:27  <peter1138> -put
14:14:52  <Belugas> i think it worked like a sub
14:15:07  <Belugas> chasing heavy elements (air) by using hydrogen
14:15:12  <jez> could one of you fix that string?
14:16:17  <Belugas> and let the hydrogen escape, thus letting air in, for getting heavier
14:16:20  <Belugas> or so i think
14:21:10  <Eddi|zuHause2> err.. air's not gonna make a zeppelin heavier.. and if you mix the hydrogen (or more modern: helium) with air, you're not gonna get the air out again
14:21:23  <jez> what's wrong with you people?  why wont you check in a simple fix?
14:21:55  <Eddi|zuHause2> because you did not provide a diff and post it at flyspray?
14:22:07  <jez> why would i?  it's one damn string
14:22:21  <Belugas> work@work is a damn thing
14:22:26  <Eddi|zuHause2> because that's how it works?
14:22:31  <jez> no it isnt
14:22:37  <jez> not every patch is posted at flyspray
14:23:03  <Eddi|zuHause2> no, but if you do it, they have one less reason to reject it ;)
14:25:56  <Born_Acorn> hydrogen doesn't explode, it burns!
14:26:09  <glx> same effect :)
14:26:26  <jez> you are aware that an explosion is an extremely fast combustion?
14:26:51  <Born_Acorn> buurrrns!
14:27:46  <Born_Acorn> fiiiiiirre!
14:29:38  <peter1138> ok
14:29:44  <peter1138> who's got Born_Acorn's pills?
14:30:12  <Born_Acorn> Skiddles has been taking them!
14:30:21  <Born_Acorn> Skiiiiiiidles!
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15:09:02  <ln->
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16:23:52  <Wolf01> hi
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16:55:27  <Born_Acorn>
16:55:36  <Born_Acorn> The forum has half a million posts. :o
16:56:18  <SpComb> we must sacrifice 500,000 goats to appease the gods
17:04:12  * Jhs still hasn't registered at the forums
17:08:54  <Born_Acorn> boo! hiss! boo! <generic disagreement sounds>
17:10:11  <Jhs> ...but now I have :)
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17:20:26  <DirtYiCE> hi everybody
17:22:07  *** Rens2Eat is now known as Rens2Sea
17:24:13  <Born_Acorn> Yay! Woo! yay! <generic applauding sounds>
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17:39:13  <Sionide> is there a list somewhere on the wiki which lists the new features in a better way than the changelog.txt does?
17:39:43  <Sionide> because the changelog.txt also includes all the tiny little bug fixes... all i'm interested in is the interesting and cool patches which are being added for better gameplay...?
17:40:10  *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-213-249-247-143.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
17:40:55  <Sionide> well ok there's a lot in the changelog but a definitive list could also explain some of the patches and what they do too
17:41:09  <Sionide> in a bit more detail..
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17:43:17  <Sionide> also the changelog.txt on the svn server only covers major releases by the look of things, or am i looking in the wrong place? :s
17:52:36  <Born_Acorn> It covers every single tiny change to the SVN.
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18:13:02  <jez> is there a function i can use to output debug messages live in a Release compile of openTTD?
18:14:33  <blathijs> Nope, there really not in there
18:15:35  <Sacro> blathijs: not even if you look reeeeeeeeeally hard?
18:16:38  <hylje> nope, unless you can hack the build to debug on the fly
18:16:52  <jez> what about debugging in debug mode?
18:17:20  <jez> sorry, by debug messages, i just mean my own personal outputs
18:17:27  <jez> not some compiler debug stuff or anything
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18:18:51  <Tron> debug.h, is the filename in any way misleading?
18:19:30  <jez> no, but i dont really understand what's in there
18:19:55  <Darkvater> uch, I got a cold :(
18:20:13  <Darkvater> jez: DEBUG(<level-name>, <level) (printf-format);
18:22:16  * Belugas sends a hot to Darkvater
18:23:10  * Born_Acorn sends Darkvater a cure for the common cold
18:23:17  <Born_Acorn> Oh. Wait, they aren't in stock yet.
18:24:49  <jez> hmm
18:25:01  <jez> i need a way to output a message in the release version.  i think it's behaving differently to the debug version
18:25:08  <Darkvater> aaah Born_Acorn ;)
18:25:31  <Darkvater> jez: use DEBUG()
18:26:11  <Darkvater> jez: you can start the release version with -d to get a debug console or open the ingame console and type 'developer 2' to output debugging messages into the game's console
18:26:48  <jez> hum
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18:31:24  * Darkvater is off to training :)
18:31:48  <Belugas> enjoy :)
18:32:54  <Darkvater> I'll probably drool all over the ice ;p
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19:02:39  <Sacro> lws1984!
19:03:08  <lws1984> Sacro!
19:04:21  * Wolf01
19:04:36  <lws1984>
19:04:38  <lws1984> ?
19:04:50  <Sacro> Wolf01!
19:05:06  <Wolf01> Sacro!
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19:17:40  <CIA-1> KUDr * r6791 /trunk/yapf/yapf_rail.cpp: -Fix: [YAPF] YapfFindNearestRailDepotTwoWay() did not work for train inside tunnel.
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19:25:32  <KUDr> XeryusTC: soory, i forgot to give you credit
19:26:19  * XeryusTC advocates a dummy commit
19:26:29  <hylje> KUDR * r6792 /trunk/yapf/yapf_rail.cpp: -Fixed credit (thanks XeryusTC)
19:26:45  <KUDr> heh
19:27:01  <KUDr> hylje: thanks for the fix
19:27:07  <XeryusTC> btw, i just  came from work when you said it :P
19:27:08  <hylje> ha
19:27:16  <KUDr> good
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19:30:00  <jez> strange.
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19:33:47  <jez> Does the code do some kind of checking of the GM music files, like CRC code or filesize?
19:34:30  *** Mucht is now known as Mucht|zZz
19:35:10  <jez> no, forget that
19:35:30  <jez> it seems the debug build is going (correctly) up to song number 22 before skipping to 1, but release is only going up to 21
19:36:38  <hylje> ha
19:36:41  <hylje> you got a nice bug
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19:48:18  <jez> how do i scroll up and down the debug window?
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19:55:45  <XeryusTC> jez: you mean the console?
19:56:40  <jez> never mind, found out
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20:51:14  <jez> I've a bugfix for the jazz jukebox code
20:57:09  <Wolf01> 'night all
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21:00:27  <peter1138> jez: you've fixed the dodgy midis?
21:02:37  <jez> i've done that by ripping them from dosbox
21:02:41  <jez> but this particular fix is another one
21:02:57  <jez> it wasn't adding song 22 (hard drivin') to the playlist
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21:06:01  <Belugas_Gone> jez, have you found out why? Was there really a difference between debug and release?
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21:08:42  <jez> im not sure why it worked in debug
21:09:03  <jez> it was incorrectly testing an array with the index of the song number instead of index-1
21:09:22  <jez> when it tested for song 22 it tried to test array[22] of a 22 index array
21:13:41  <Belugas_Gone> nice...
21:13:44  <Belugas_Gone> diff?
21:13:51  <jez> i have one
21:13:54  <jez> where should i put it
21:14:00  <Belugas_Gone> just in case i wold be the culprit :S
21:14:03  <Belugas_Gone> DCC?
21:14:12  <Belugas_Gone> why am i gone?
21:15:28  <Belugas_Gone> ho.yeah i should be gone indeed
21:15:37  <Belugas_Gone> received
21:15:52  <Belugas_Gone> and indeed, it does like my work
21:16:11  *** XeryusTC [] has quit [Quit: So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish]
21:17:15  <Belugas_Gone> thanks, looks like you'll may finally have some of your work commited ;)
21:18:08  <jez> ha ha.
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21:20:30  <Belugas_Gone> and now i'm really done
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21:22:17  <MeusH> hello
21:22:23  <jez> hi
21:23:03  <Brianetta> helol
21:24:51  <Bjarni> to all English speaking people:
21:24:52  <Bjarni> -STR_VEH_WITH_SHARED_ORDERS_LIST_TIP                             :{BLACK}Show all vehicles which have the same schedule
21:24:52  <Bjarni> +STR_VEH_WITH_SHARED_ORDERS_LIST_TIP                             :{BLACK}Show all vehicles that share this schedule
21:25:00  <Bjarni> is this change correct?
21:26:18  <jez> i speak very good English.
21:27:01  <Bjarni> actually I was thinking of other English speaking people, like Brianetta ;)
21:27:11  <Bjarni> or peter1138
21:27:21  <jez> brianetta huh
21:27:26  <Brianetta> Yes, that's a correct change
21:27:32  <Brianetta> as jez proposed earlier
21:27:46  <Bjarni> good
21:27:50  <jez> [14:31] <jez> STR_VEH_WITH_SHARED_ORDERS_LIST_TIP                             :{BLACK}Show all vehicles that share this schedule
21:27:50  <jez> [14:31] <Brianetta> That's much better
21:27:54  <jez> lol
21:27:55  <jez> too late
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21:28:07  <Bjarni> I didn't see that as I was offline at the time
21:28:11  <Brianetta> (:
21:28:17  <jez> yep we noticed
21:30:22  *** CIA-1 was kicked from #openttd by Bjarni [CIA-1]
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21:30:36  * Bjarni kick CIA-1
21:30:38  <peter1138> bah
21:30:41  * Bjarni kicks CIA-1
21:30:41  <CIA-1> ow
21:30:50  *** TinoM| [] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
21:30:51  * peter1138 ponders 'being ill' tomorrow
21:31:14  *** Bjarni [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
21:31:15  <MiHaMiX> peter1138: are you feel sick, or just wants to work all day on OpenTTD? :D
21:31:22  <peter1138> MiHaMiX: both
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21:31:41  <MiHaMiX> peter1138: :D
21:31:44  <CIA-1> bjarni * r6792 /trunk/lang/english.txt:
21:31:44  <CIA-1> -Cleanup: improved the English used in STR_VEH_WITH_SHARED_ORDERS_LIST_TIP (jez)
21:31:44  <CIA-1>  The meaning should remain the same and there is no need to retranslate this string
21:31:45  <MeusH> Bjarni is doing strange things :S
21:31:45  <Bjarni> hmm
21:32:02  <Bjarni> I lost the connection
21:32:09  <jez> heh cool
21:32:17  <jez> i wondered what all that incoming traffic was
21:32:26  <jez> well
21:32:30  <jez> incoming/outgoing
21:32:34  <jez> worried i was a spam zombie
21:32:45  <Bjarni> noticed right away as I accidentally wrote "/kick CIA-1" instead of "/me kicks CIA-1" and nothing happened
21:32:46  <jez> thanks to Wireshark, now i know it's virtually all Skype
21:32:52  <jez> apparently i'm acting as a useful proxy
21:33:13  <jez> Bjarni: habit.
21:33:29  <peter1138> Bjarni: good job you don't auto-op, eh?
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21:34:27  <jez> Sygate tells me what ports various programs are listening/connected on (a graphical netstat), Wireshark tells me about traffic to/from those ports
21:34:53  <peter1138> netstat & tcpdump, whew
21:35:02  <jez> shame there isn't a program that can tie those together.  i want a list of rach process's network connection usage by %
21:35:23  <jez> no, it's better than netstat
21:35:30  <jez> netstat can't tie a process to an open port
21:35:34  <Bjarni> 	<peter1138>	Bjarni: good job you don't auto-op, eh? <-- yeah, we should protect the feelings of CIA-1
21:35:35  <Bjarni> oh wait
21:35:37  <Bjarni> :P
21:35:45  <jez> it just says 'these are open'.  if something suspicious is open, you dont necessarily know what opened it
21:36:06  <peter1138> Active Internet connections (w/o servers)
21:36:06  <peter1138> Proto Recv-Q Send-Q Local Address           Foreign Address         State       PID/Program name
21:36:09  <peter1138> tcp        0      0       ESTABLISHED5480/ssh
21:36:10  <jez> oh actually it can, just doesnt by default
21:36:12  <peter1138> tcp        1      0       CLOSE_WAIT 5132/mpdscribble
21:36:15  <Bjarni> anyway I wrote a longer commit message than the diff o_O
21:36:15  <peter1138> oh yeah
21:36:18  <peter1138> it can't...
21:36:41  <peter1138> actually i wanted -l, but oh well
21:36:42  <jez> still it doesnt tie that to network utilization, unfortunately
21:37:09  <peter1138> if you run it quickly enough you can see the send & recv queue ;)
21:37:26  <jez> i'd like to be able to see what process(s) are rumbling on causing constant traffic
21:37:32  <jez> it's a pain with Wireshark, getting each packet
21:37:42  <jez> unless it's really obvious (like with skype_
21:37:43  * peter1138 hmms at string A01F and A021
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21:49:02  * Brianetta is planning
21:50:08  * Born_Acorn plans more
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21:55:21  * peter1138 plans sleep
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22:18:57  <Darkvater> Bjarni: !
22:19:24  <Bjarni> Darkvater: !
22:19:33  <Darkvater> Bjarni: autoreplace icon!
22:19:47  <jez> this damn cheese is so nice
22:19:51  <jez> why does it have to be so bad for me
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22:57:45  <Brianetta> Dutch Catenary rocks
22:57:48  <Brianetta> You can actually see it
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23:20:56  <jez> Overhead lines ... are known variously as ... Catenary (somewhat inaccurately).
23:21:04  <Sacro> Bjarni: the dutch are strange...
23:21:44  <jez> whilst overhead lines might look 'nice' in real life, i think they look terrible in TT
23:22:08  <jez> the train/track sprites are too small to adequately illustrate them and they just look cramped and get in the way
23:22:14  <Sacro> it needs some nice newgrf'y goodness
23:27:08  <Born_Acorn>
23:27:09  <Born_Acorn> wee
23:27:11  <Born_Acorn> oops
23:29:47  <jez> stuck on 'preloading maps'
23:29:47  <jez> :-(
23:30:25  <MeusH> yeah, I know this one - it's great
23:30:40  <MeusH> jez, reload
23:33:31  <MeusH> jez, the whole perspective thing in TT is a big mistake
23:33:48  <MeusH> with ships having size of two haouses = a stadium
23:34:17  <Sacro> 32bpp will be great
23:34:59  <Sionide> wow
23:35:05  <Sionide> miniIN is awesome...
23:35:15  <Sionide> bus stops on the side of the road :D
23:35:19  <Sacro> Sionide: yes
23:36:00  <Sionide> subsiduries patch as well... hmmmm
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23:37:51  <Sionide> just wow
23:40:29  <MeusH> bye
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