Log for #openttd on 10th January 2007:
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00:03:58  <Maedhros> hmm, i think i prefer the second option, despite "someone" :)
00:04:23  <Maedhros> anyway, time to sleep. good night
00:07:43  <Digitalfox_Away> Good Night
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00:12:22  <Rubidium_> KUDr: you missed (at least) r8002 in your manual sync
00:13:06  <BFM> Iphone looks like an expensive wank, but lucky for apple there's a lotta wankers out there.
00:17:11  <Nigel> exactly
00:17:30  <Nigel> i was commenting before, than my house is proudly iPod free
00:17:48  <KUDr> Rubidium_: hmm, will check it
00:17:52  <KUDr> thanks
00:18:00  <Nigel> i actually don't think there has been an iPod in the house
00:18:32  <BFM> OTher day on the bus, EVERYONE HAD AN IPOD :S
00:18:44  <BFM> I should have brought my 6 year old minidisc player, just to spite them
00:19:07  <pv2b> i saw this guy iwth a minidisc player a few years bakc in brussels
00:19:21  <pv2b> he had like 30 or so minidisc with him
00:19:21  <KUDr> Rubidium_: yes, i see, i didn't update any makefile stuff
00:19:38  <pv2b> it strikes me all of that would easilly fit on a modern hard disc based player probably even on a flash player.
00:20:13  <Nigel> BFM: thats what i do, everyone has white earbuds in their ears, so i pull out my cheap MP3 player, with black earbuds just to annoy them :P
00:20:46  <pv2b> white earbuds are for idiots who don't know better.
00:20:54  <pv2b> they sound like crap
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00:24:44  <Nigel> haha, got a text message from the train network here "Due to a technical fault the [xx:xxam] [Eastern Line] train service from [Papakura] has been delayed by approx [xx] mins."
00:24:55  <CIA-1> KUDr * r8016 /branches/cpp/ -Fix: (r8015) incomplete sync (thanks Rubidium)
00:25:54  <KUDr> gn all
00:26:03  <Nigel> and i think they just sent it to each subscriber twice ;)
00:26:58  <Eddi|zuHause2> hey... i am missing 11 trains
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00:27:15  <Eddi|zuHause2> i have a waypoint for each direction
00:27:23  <Eddi|zuHause2> one direction counted 215 trains last year
00:27:29  <Eddi|zuHause2> the other direction 204
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00:27:51  <Eddi|zuHause2> i must have a wormhole or something
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00:33:32  <orudge> Hm, Darkvater, remind me tomorrow about the OS/2 patch, I must sleep
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00:39:27  <CIA-1> glx * r8017 /branches/cpp/" target="_blank"> [cpp] -Fix r8015: revert unwanted" target="_blank"> changes
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00:44:12  <Brianetta> Hey all you people who love to runs servers
00:44:27  <Brianetta>
00:46:17  <setrodox> ah, nice, though i run private servers only atm
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00:52:56  <Brianetta>
00:53:04  <Brianetta> I *really* need to figure out my date routines
00:54:30  <Brianetta> un;ess, of course, the Russians are cheating the date back...
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01:10:51  <BFM> HAHAHA
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05:00:27  <Sacro> !stats
05:00:29  <_42_> Sacro:
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08:47:59  <Celestar> Brianetta: when will you restart your server? :)
08:48:26  <Brianetta> Celestar: 12 years' time
08:48:30  <Celestar> hm
08:48:41  <Celestar> !calc 12 * 365.25 * 2
08:48:42  <_42_> Celestar: 8766.00;
08:48:49  <Celestar> !calc 12 * 365.25 * 2 / 3600
08:48:50  <_42_> Celestar: 2.4350000000;
08:49:05  <Naksu> <- i hope i'm not the only one who thinks this is stupid
08:49:39  <Brianetta> Naksu: Rest assured, you aren't
08:52:04  <Naksu> semla is a typical finnish sweet pastry? wtf?
08:52:12  <Naksu> it's not even finnish
08:54:36  <Naksu>'s_tart this would be a lot better
08:54:49  <Brianetta> Anybody here have an OpenTTD server running?
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09:12:32  <Darkvater> orudge: OS/2!
09:12:49  <Darkvater> morning
09:15:33  <peter1138> i see
09:15:43  <Darkvater> I figured out the still-existing news-crash....
09:15:50  * Darkvater hatest that fifo-surrogate
09:15:55  <peter1138> "THAT" isn't the sanctioned way of upgrading GRFs
09:16:05  <peter1138> i mean, i never wrote the bit that changes stuff in game :P
09:16:28  <Darkvater> peter1138: the sanctioned way does not exist it seems :)
09:17:44  <peter1138> yeah, fuck em
09:17:51  <Darkvater> peter1138: we need to discuss unload vs transfer which, according to Celestar you broke
09:18:02  <peter1138> i did?
09:18:03  <peter1138> oh well
09:18:39  <peter1138> transfers always been broken
09:18:44  <Celestar> peter1138: pm pls
09:18:53  <Darkvater> I'll let you guys talk it out ;)
09:22:31  <peter1138> Darkvater: if you can think of a way to open a window during the saveload process, i can do the grf changing thing
09:22:50  <peter1138> the window system is reset when it reinitialises the intro game
09:23:40  <Darkvater> well I had a thinking and all I could come up with is global crappiness
09:23:49  <peter1138> right
09:23:59  <Darkvater> but even that is still highly vaporware
09:24:17  <peter1138> well, yeah, my thought was "globals"
09:24:17  <peter1138> heh
09:25:03  <peter1138> also i'd like an error message queue
09:25:17  <mikl> Eat globals and die();
09:25:18  <Darkvater> as you say, there is no other way cause all the windows are reset
09:25:47  <Darkvater> o_O
09:25:50  <peter1138> maybe c++ migration can come up with a good idea
09:25:53  <Darkvater> the dollar dropped to 1.29
09:26:04  <Darkvater> from 1.33 about a week ago
09:32:39  <Celestar> talking about C++ migration ...
09:32:45  <Celestar> when? :P
09:33:36  <Darkvater> I've talked to KUDr and agreed that as soon as orudge gets the OS/2 patch done I'll apply it then merge
09:33:52  <Celestar> nice \o/
09:33:53  <Darkvater> then we'll have at least 1 revision that works in trunk/
09:33:54  <peter1138> hmm, it was synced?
09:34:01  <Celestar> peter1138: yes
09:34:25  * peter1138 times a full recompile :P
09:36:18  <peter1138> Darkvater: did i tell you benchmarked the "no" sprite limit patch?
09:36:33  <Darkvater> that you benchmarked it?
09:36:49  <peter1138> err
09:36:51  <peter1138> +i
09:36:52  <Darkvater> you had some confusing numbers but the last thing I heard was increase of spritecache to 2MB which really helped performance
09:36:58  <peter1138> yeah
09:37:07  <Darkvater> but do tell
09:37:18  <peter1138> the patch itself has little or no performance cost
09:37:26  <Darkvater> ...but...
09:37:27  <Darkvater> ?
09:37:29  <peter1138> which is nice
09:37:58  <peter1138> but the spritecache lru stuff takes longer with more sprites, obviously
09:38:05  <Darkvater> (last thing I heard was a performance drop of ~20% in GetSprite)
09:38:24  <peter1138> nah, that was the spritecache "pool" which is already in
09:38:45  <peter1138> it's nothing compared to blitting a sprite...
09:40:03  <peter1138> with a 2MB spritecache, i think we can afford to run the LRU check less often
09:40:36  <peter1138> anyway
09:40:40  <peter1138> i've got work to do :(
09:40:47  <Darkvater> *shock*
09:41:46  <Darkvater> the spritecache is still 1MB right?
09:41:57  <Celestar> what is the LRU ?
09:42:05  <Darkvater> Least Recently Used
09:42:13  <roboboy> peter1138 where did your server go on the list
09:43:16  <Celestar> guys, I've been looking around at servers
09:43:29  <Celestar> and we should disable road/rail collisions in network mode
09:43:48  <peter1138> why?
09:44:07  <peter1138> roboboy: no idea
09:44:14  <roboboy> ok
09:44:31  <roboboy> its not listed at for me either
09:44:34  <Darkvater> that's trying to fix a sympton, not the cause which is a bad algorithm for the crossings
09:45:08  <peter1138> roboboy: i know
09:45:11  <Celestar> peter1138: because people build depot+1 piece of rail to destroy other people's RVs
09:45:14  <roboboy> ok
09:45:23  <peter1138> i guessed that from "where did your server go on the list"
09:45:23  <Darkvater> Celestar: it's a part of the game
09:45:46  <Darkvater> if it's unwanted the server rules should state that and the admin kick violators
09:46:05  <peter1138> 6m51 user time
09:46:18  * peter1138 tests trunk
09:46:30  <Darkvater> is that build-time?
09:46:33  <peter1138> yeah
09:46:39  <peter1138> from make clean
09:46:44  <Darkvater> hee, dn't ever change openttd.h again
09:47:18  * peter1138 tries to figure out the advantage of compiling a c project as c++
09:47:28  <peter1138> we get type safety which we have to work around with casts...
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09:48:10  <Archieboy> Is it possible to create admin popups on violation?
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09:50:13  <Darkvater> no
09:50:44  <Darkvater> peter1138: I don't think the just-convert c++ has any advantages
09:51:03  <Darkvater> but that was not what the c++ part was supposed to stay at
09:52:55  <Giddorah> Really? It isn't?
09:53:16  <peter1138> bollocks
09:53:21  <peter1138> forgot to use time :P
09:53:34  <Darkvater> no cause the violations you speak of Giddorah are just game rules that you set up
09:53:41  <Darkvater> the game does not enforce it in any way
09:55:37  <Giddorah> Well... Can you set up the server so that destroying someone elses equipment isn't possible? Is there any admin tool to find out if someone is destroying an offline players lorrys/buses? I mean, other than having the news running (Does it even show deaths of other people's units?)
09:56:23  <Giddorah> Playing on a 2048x2048 with 8 companies, caring about your own company at the same time as you care about everyone elses is a bit tedious
09:56:42  <Celestar> what about the option of disallowing crashes between two companies?
09:56:54  <Giddorah> There is such an option?
09:57:00  <Celestar> no
09:57:04  <Giddorah> Hehe
09:57:08  <Celestar> but i was thinking about whether to implement one
09:57:30  <Giddorah> I think some kind of MP-Rules thingy when you create the server ought to turn out good
09:57:56  <Giddorah> Problem is that they will probably be hard to implement if you got to work on the network code and stuff
09:58:23  <Celestar> the network code is just low-level
09:58:33  <Celestar> building packets and sending them
09:58:41  <peter1138> let's disable level crossings
09:58:54  <peter1138> and also disable flooding
09:59:40  <Darkvater> Brianetta: any desyncs yet?
09:59:55  <peter1138> heh
09:59:56  <peter1138> 5m50
10:00:25  <Darkvater> the compile time is indeed disturbing...
10:00:51  <Giddorah> Takes 6 minutes to compile?
10:00:55  <Darkvater> hmm peter1138: didn't you say you would implement a grf-update mechanism? Eg it only checks grfid when loading game in SP?
10:01:21  <peter1138> i wanted to do the "open a window and fiddle" method
10:01:28  <peter1138> but i couldn't yet :P
10:01:34  <Giddorah> Oh oh oh! Is the drag-signal completion bug for corners fixed?
10:02:03  <Darkvater> I meant automatic upgrade
10:02:10  <peter1138> oh, no
10:02:42  <Darkvater> eg if it can't find the md5sum it looks for a grf with the same id
10:03:14  <peter1138> Giddorah: what bug?
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10:13:19  <Giddorah> So, Darkvater, why the automatic grf-download?
10:13:26  <Giddorah> And what would trigger it?
10:13:34  <Giddorah> If it's only intended for sp?
10:13:41  <Darkvater> what?
10:13:55  <Darkvater> I'm not talking about automatic grf download
10:13:56  <peter1138> automatic upgrade != automatic download
10:14:26  <Giddorah> "... a grf-update mechanism?"
10:14:55  <peter1138> still nothing about downloads, heh
10:15:08  <Giddorah> U've lost me :P
10:15:24  <Darkvater> it is when you play your game with ukrs v3.0 then download v3.3 and the game uses 3.3 automatically if 3.3 is in the list and 3.0 is missing
10:15:29  <Darkvater> right now it refuses to load
10:15:30  <Giddorah> So... An automatic upgrade thingy without downloads
10:15:59  <Darkvater> peter1138: I think we can do that in AfterLoadGame > IsGoodGRFConfigList?
10:16:08  <Giddorah> Ooh... So you mean it automatically selects the grf-set with the highest version?
10:16:28  <Rubidium_> Darkvater: now what if you play with v3.0, remove that and replace it by v1.0?
10:16:55  <Giddorah> You just have to select "UKRS" in the grf list, and it'll choose the newest wether you have 10 different UKRS's installed?
10:17:42  <Darkvater> Rubidium_: if the GRFID matches it'll load 1.0
10:17:49  <Darkvater> but that's your own fault
10:18:00  <Darkvater> Giddorah: no
10:18:17  <Darkvater> because with grf files there is no notion of *new* or *old*
10:18:33  <Darkvater> if the GRFID matches then one is older than the other
10:19:01  <Darkvater> you only now that from the human comment in there which the author writes in any format he/she likes
10:19:05  <Darkvater> peter1138: right?
10:19:09  <Darkvater> don't wanna talk bullshit here ;p
10:19:27  <Giddorah> lol
10:19:57  <peter1138> i don't think there should be auto upgrade
10:20:11  <Giddorah> Well... Say it is like that... That the version number isn't actually something else but "cosmetics"... How would it check it, and why, and... Stuff
10:20:40  <peter1138> the only case where it can be possibly right is when there is only one matching grf id
10:20:44  <CIA-1> maedhros * r8018 /branches/newhouses/src/ (newgrf.c newgrf_house.c town.h town_cmd.c):
10:20:44  <CIA-1> [NewHouses] -Codechange: Make HOUSE_MAX the maximum number of houses rather
10:20:44  <CIA-1> than the highest house id, and introduce HOUSE_CLASS_MAX for classes.
10:21:10  <Giddorah> Good call :)
10:21:18  <Darkvater> peter1138: that's what I am talking about. In SP if the GRFID matches but MD5SUM doesn't still use that grf isntead of panicking
10:21:39  <peter1138> i'd rather have the manual gui :P
10:21:43  <Rubidium_> the only thing that would make sense to me is showing a dialog with: I could not find the GRF with ID X and MD5sum Y, which one should I replace it with? (and then a list)
10:21:50  <peter1138> Rubidium_: *ding*
10:21:51  <Giddorah> What good would it do? Wouldn't it be a cause for panicking clients?
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10:22:04  <Rubidium_> peter1138: *dong*
10:22:15  <peter1138> keep that away
10:22:38  <Darkvater> hi Purno
10:22:49  <Purno> hi DV
10:22:54  <Darkvater> Rubidium_: good luck coding that in any sane way with the current framework
10:22:54  <Celestar> 256x256 feels really small these days
10:23:11  <Giddorah> Hehe
10:23:21  <Darkvater> peter1138: the manual GUI sucks cause you HAVE to load the game first with the original GRF's before you can change it
10:23:32  <Rubidium_> there is (currently) no sane way of doing that
10:23:32  <Darkvater> DaleStan would totally flip if it stayed that way; and rightly
10:23:34  <peter1138> Darkvater: no, manual gui before then game loads
10:23:38  <peter1138> we were just talking about it
10:23:44  <peter1138> -n
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10:24:29  <Giddorah> But... With game loads in this convo... You mean before you generate/load a playable game, or you mean before the titlescreen?
10:24:41  <Giddorah> I haven't been peepin in the source yet
10:24:55  <peter1138> loading a savegame
10:25:02  <Giddorah> Alltho I've played TTD since 94... So this project interests me :P
10:25:24  <Giddorah> Okay
10:25:26  <Giddorah> Hmm
10:26:23  <peter1138> oi
10:26:32  <peter1138> no hmming unless you have my permission
10:27:04  <Darkvater> shall I kick? ^^
10:27:16  <Giddorah> Haha
10:27:20  <Giddorah> Sorry :)
10:27:29  <Darkvater> sorry is not enough
10:27:31  <Darkvater> pay up!
10:27:35  <Giddorah> I'm a mumbler irl :S
10:30:03  <Darkvater> so press load > scan save for NGRF section and load that > present GUI if not 100% > load game for real with new list
10:30:55  <Darkvater> + fix up console / dedicated loading
10:33:22  <peter1138> heeeee
10:33:36  <peter1138> prescan savegames o_O
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10:34:38  <Giddorah> Ahemm... Do you use the sourceforge project thingy?
10:35:19  <Darkvater> for downloads
10:36:59  <Darkvater> peter1138: well what else do you want to do?
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10:37:35  <peter1138> nothing
10:37:42  <Darkvater> hehe
10:37:50  <peter1138> "dont' change grfs" :p
10:38:12  <Darkvater> I think I'll have to disagree with you on that ;p
10:38:57  <Darkvater> in my opinion the easiest solution would be 1. option to skip loading/activating GRF's and 2. autoupgrade
10:39:00  <Darkvater> both for SP only
10:39:24  <Darkvater> 1 would load the NGRF section just not activate the GRF files so you can change at will ingame
10:39:48  <CIA-1> rubidium * r8019 /trunk/config.lib: -Fix (r7759): if libfreetype was not found (and not forced to be used), the configure script aborted instead of marking it a 'not found'.
10:39:48  *** roboboy [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
10:42:01  <Brianetta> Darkvater: no (40 mins)
10:42:28  <Brianetta> Several "connections lost"ses
10:42:33  <Brianetta> but no desyncs
10:42:38  <Darkvater> interesting... (the no desync part)
10:42:51  <Brianetta> The lost connections were ISP related, I think
10:43:00  <Brianetta> since it was only me, and I also lost ssh
10:43:09  <Brianetta> although sutopilot could still talk to me via IRC
10:43:16  <Rubidium_> or ?
10:43:19  * Brianetta pats the autopilot
10:44:04  <Brianetta> You all saw my server info banner?
10:44:10  <Darkvater> horrible
10:44:12  <peter1138> hmm, so why has my server stopped advertising?
10:44:23  <Brianetta> ):
10:44:55  <Brianetta> Well, at least my banenr is the one that works (:
10:45:08  <Brianetta> except there's a bug in the date handling for 0.4.8 and older
10:45:29  <Brianetta> where the start date is fine, but the current date is usually a few hundred years too early
10:45:29  <Darkvater> Rubidium_: do both fix the same thing?
10:45:39  <Rubidium_> yes, but in a different manner
10:46:06  <Rubidium_> in the second one you'll still have 'small house' an empty tile owned by 'someone'
10:46:31  <Rubidium_> in the first one, on a redraw of the window, the information is fetched again
10:47:10  <Darkvater> best'd be to stringinizing the values so it's permanent but in any other case I would pick land_info_not_updated then
10:47:18  <peter1138> hmm
10:47:24  <peter1138> the ingame server list is a bit fucked
10:47:45  <peter1138> if you add a server manually and refresh, the ip disappears and subsequent refreshes say "Cannot resolve"
10:47:59  <peter1138> hmm, i'm using RC2 though
10:49:14  <Darkvater>
10:49:15  <Darkvater> whaa
10:49:24  <Darkvater> did that guy just put his own picture in there?
10:49:58  <valhallasw> Darkvater: I guess so.
10:50:14  <Darkvater> well at least he is a bit capable
10:50:27  <valhallasw> he knows how to resize his face
10:50:36  <Darkvater> there was a time when I got 'spammed' by some old guy to fix his problems
10:50:39  <Darkvater> TTD problems
10:50:40  <Celestar> ok what I do I need to send to a client to remove him.
10:50:51  <Nigel> Darkvater: thanks for correcting it ;)
10:50:58  <valhallasw> Celestar: erm, kick <client number> on the server?
10:51:05  <valhallasw> :+
10:51:05  <Darkvater> he was sending me 1-2MB big bitmaps of his whole desktop just to show a 100x100 area
10:51:08  <Darkvater> Nigel: what?
10:52:06  <Nigel> about 'his problems'
10:52:18  <Darkvater> :)
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10:59:04  <CIA-1> maedhros * r8020 /branches/newhouses/src/ (newgrf_house.c newgrf_house.h): [NewHouses] -Codechange: Rename ClassGRFIDMapping to HouseClassMapping, move it to newgrf_house.h and add some comments.
11:09:02  <Darkvater> < lunch
11:16:29  <Brianetta> My date interpretation code sucks
11:16:36  <Brianetta> All my dates are wrong, some more than others
11:20:08  <Nigel> hmmm, NewHouses look good (just been reading the forum threads)
11:27:54  <Celestar> Darkvater: we needa discuss merge order.
11:28:03  <Celestar> Darkvater: cpp, newhouses or newhouses, cpp :)
11:28:26  <Celestar> not sure about cbh, but it is temporarily halted
11:28:44  <Rubidium_> well, is newhouses finished?
11:28:53  <Celestar> don't know
11:29:08  <peter1138> no
11:29:15  <Celestar> ok how mucho is missing? :)
11:29:31  <peter1138> triggers and some bugs, iirc
11:29:36  <peter1138> dunno how necessary triggers are
11:29:44  <peter1138> i've not implemented them for stations yet either
11:30:11  <Celestar> peter1138: I'm not sure we need triggers before merging
11:30:36  <peter1138> depends what sort of problems not having them causes
11:31:18  <Celestar> this iPhone is soo cool
11:31:24  <Celestar> me wants one
11:32:16  <Rubidium_> I would at least see the merge of cpp happen in two different commits. One that renames the files and one that applies the diff between cpp and trunk (so we can actually see what happened and spot possible missed syncs)
11:32:17  <Nigel> Celestar: omg...
11:32:27  * Nigel beats up Celestar
11:32:35  <Celestar> Nigel: ?
11:32:40  <Celestar> Rubidium_: hm .. sounds like an idea
11:32:55  <Nigel> i just don't like the idea of the iPhone tbh
11:33:23  <Celestar> as long as it doesn't run Windows
11:33:26  <Nigel> too much to go wrong imo
11:33:26  <Celestar> or need Window
11:33:49  <Celestar> there's much more that can go wrong in a Boeing 777
11:34:06  <Celestar> yet we use it
11:34:51  <Nigel> true, but the loss of say, the master altimeter, doesn't cause the whole thing to die, i'd hate to think what could happen if some functionality was lost on one of those things
11:36:14  <Nigel> anyway, it's not like i'll be able to purchase one in the next 5 years
11:36:50  <Rubidium_> unless the altimeter is linked to the autopilot and the plane is going slowly downwards until it crashes
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11:37:53  <Nigel> Rubidium_: thats why they have backup mechanical altimeters as well as the master digital one/s
11:38:44  <Maedhros> i don't think newhouses is ready to be merged yet
11:38:57  <Maedhros> nearly, but not quite :)
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11:39:14  <Nigel> Maedhros: thats why i just said "looks good"
11:39:27  <Rubidium_> oh, Celestar it would be nice to have the name changes done by a script, so it can be applied to the other branches (when needed)
11:42:41  <Brianetta> peter1138: Banner changed.  Hopefully more legible - background is practically reduced to a watermark.
11:44:49  <peter1138> hmm
11:44:52  <peter1138> the blue's hard to read :P
11:44:59  <Brianetta> That's just you
11:45:07  <Brianetta> (:
11:45:15  <peter1138> dark blue on dark grey was never a good idea
11:45:31  <peter1138> i don't use the ttd theme either, heh
11:45:57  <Brianetta> Well, the "on dark grey" just came along later
11:46:09  <Brianetta> I still preferred the old one
11:46:12  <Nigel> Brianetta: got a link?
11:46:26  <peter1138> also
11:46:35  <Brianetta> I don't see any difficulty reading it, but I'm aesthetically challenged in the extreme - just look at my web sites.
11:46:37  <peter1138> maybe i'm the only user who doesn't have font smoothing enabled, heh
11:46:48  <Brianetta> font smoothing?
11:46:59  <peter1138> antialiasing as real people call it
11:47:04  <Brianetta> The image is antialiased, sure
11:47:21  <peter1138> the blue is definitely hard to read
11:47:22  <Brianetta> I doubt it's the same font as the one that the forum uses
11:47:32  <Brianetta> That black just happens to be ImageMagick's default
11:47:39  <Brianetta> Nigel: It's in my forum signature
11:47:56  <Brianetta> Nigel: Look in the OpenTTD General forum at the servers as signatures threads, there are lots of them
11:48:07  <peter1138> 46KB :/
11:48:13  <peter1138> can you make it smaller? :P
11:48:22  <peter1138> the watermark doesn't help for that...
11:48:27  <Brianetta> Let me read the man page again
11:48:37  * peter1138 has an idea
11:48:42  * peter1138 add blocks it: P
11:48:53  <Brianetta> (:
11:49:18  <peter1138> -d
11:50:31  <Brianetta> It's the text
11:50:35  <Brianetta> The base image is half as big
11:52:17  * Brianetta checks compression level, etc
11:52:48  <peter1138> a solid background, aliased text, and 8bpp would make it a lot smaller ;)
11:53:37  <peter1138> heheh
11:53:45  <peter1138> back to the old NFO vs XML debate :p
11:54:20  <Nigel> Brianetta: it's okay, sadly the blue is a little too sharp
11:54:37  <Brianetta> The blue is "blue"
11:55:03  <Nigel> i know, but for tt-forums it's too sharp/peircing
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11:56:06  <MiHaMiX> tudor: hi
11:56:10  <Nigel> it's like i perfer websites to be ever so slightly off-white instead of white
11:56:27  <tudor> hi
11:56:34  *** tudor is now known as picitlama
11:56:39  <Nigel> i can hardly read black text on white webpages anymore
11:56:55  <Brianetta> Sounds like you ned to use your contrast knob
11:57:07  <picitlama> Nigel: this is beacuse antialiasing works better now :)
11:58:26  <Nigel> Brianetta: i need to turn my laptops brightness down to the lowest possible to read black on white some of the time now
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11:59:31  <Nigel> picitlama: and people wonder why i don't trust modern technology
12:00:10  <picitlama> Nigel: modern technology a good thing. Openttd, by example, a modern technology.
12:00:40  <Nigel> picitlama: OpenTTD is an exception to the rule yes
12:02:32  <BurningFeetMan> Modern Technology rocks my socks.
12:02:40  <picitlama> Torcs also a very nice productivity-destroyer. But what about cellphones? Saved a lots of lives and marriages.
12:02:42  <BurningFeetMan> Take Team Fortress 2 for example ^_^
12:03:13  <BurningFeetMan> What about medical R&D... now imagine it with out the past 200 years of modern technology ^_^
12:03:24  <picitlama> yes
12:03:37  <Brianetta> OK, the compresion level was boosted
12:03:43  *** BurningFeetMan [] has quit [Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox]]
12:03:45  <Brianetta> It's lost 25% of its file length
12:03:51  <picitlama> and space travel. Nice to know about big spaces where no burokracy.
12:03:58  <MiHaMiX> picitlama: :D
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12:04:46  <picitlama> but i am not here for modern technology. I wanted to ask a question.
12:05:00  <Celestar> picitlama: yeah?
12:05:11  <MiHaMiX> picitlama: ask your question without prior questions :)
12:05:25  <Nigel> i kinda meant recent technology, but yeah
12:05:30  <picitlama> is there someone, who likes to play with 1024x1024 map, and the cities @ factories settings at "more" level?
12:05:46  <picitlama> MiHaMiX: yes, but i type slow in english :)
12:06:14  <Nigel> picitlama: yeah, i quite like that
12:06:23  <picitlama> i think when i switch these options to the upper level, te map becoma ridicoulos, factories and cities reaching into each other
12:06:37  <picitlama> Nigel: can you show me a developed screenshot?
12:07:49  <Nigel> i appologise but no
12:07:58  <Nigel> i reformatted as of yesturday
12:08:09  <Brianetta> I like the length, for really long routes, but I make the maps long and thin.  I prefer fewer cities and more countryside.  OpenTTD's cities grow so fast that there's often no countryside left by 2020 unless there are very few cities..
12:08:20  <Nigel> havn't had the chance to restore yet
12:08:48  <Nigel> Brianetta: true that
12:09:22  <Celestar> Brianetta: ping me if you restart, k? :)
12:09:34  <Nigel> other problem is, i'd perfer playing multiplayer, but every time i connent, there doesn't seem to be a decent (don't get me wrong here) server, with free spaces
12:09:34  <picitlama> Brianetta: yes, thi is my problem also
12:09:39  <peter1138> uhhh
12:09:46  <peter1138> (tgdb) print cur_ticks
12:09:46  <peter1138>  = 199704599
12:09:46  <peter1138> (tgdb) print next_tick
12:09:46  <peter1138>  = 4294967292
12:09:50  <peter1138> that ... seems wrong
12:09:54  <picitlama> and i cant eradicate cities. tried :)
12:11:33  *** TinoM [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:12:11  <Brianetta> Celestar: OK
12:12:30  <Celestar> Brianetta: is the game running at all presently? :P
12:12:48  <peter1138> ok
12:12:51  <Brianetta> Best way to avoid city growth is to smake sure that all the cities are above the snowline or in the desert.
12:12:56  <peter1138> so why did next_tick become -1?
12:13:05  <Brianetta> Celestar: No, there are no players
12:13:10  <Nigel> peter1138: overflow?
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12:13:38  <Celestar> what is the problem with city growth? I like the urban areas
12:13:41  <Celestar> makes thing realistic
12:13:44  <peter1138> Celestar: it's too high
12:13:49  <Nigel> Celestar: i agree
12:13:52  <Brianetta> Celestar: There is still countryside
12:13:56  <Brianetta> in the real world
12:14:00  <Celestar> you cannot build 100km long straight lines anyway
12:14:13  <Celestar> peter1138: I agree, but some factor, but not by an order of magnitude...
12:14:17  <Brianetta> There should be fewer trees, too. They grow like the pox in OpenTTD.
12:14:24  <Celestar> Brianetta: yeah
12:14:34  <Celestar> peter1138: better plane speeds would be more important imho
12:14:40  <picitlama>
12:14:42  <peter1138> except for the ones you plant yourself. they die off too soon ;p
12:14:48  <peter1138> Celestar: unrelated :P
12:14:51  <picitlama> and this is the most rarest distribution
12:14:58  <Celestar> peter1138: "more important"
12:15:17  <picitlama> Brianetta: trees not a real problem, ithink
12:16:55  <Brianetta> picitlama: They are when you're trying to plant some
12:17:12  <Brianetta> but the city occupies most of the land, and the reomaining 200 tiles have trees on
12:17:16  <Brianetta> and your rating is poor
12:17:24  <Brianetta> and you have no desire to bribe
12:18:09  <picitlama> Brianetta: hm, never played this long :)
12:19:07  <Brianetta> Celestar: roboboy is on the server, making time move.
12:20:03  <picitlama> where can i download scenarios? The .deb packages doesnt contains scenarios
12:20:33  <Celestar> \o/
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12:23:02  <roboboy> i just lost connection
12:25:12  <roboboy> i fund countryside!
12:27:31  <Brianetta> the 4th of October, 2042
12:27:35  <Brianetta> the 5th of October, 2042
12:27:37  <Brianetta> look
12:27:39  <Brianetta> time passeth
12:27:49  <Celestar> niiice
12:27:54  <Brianetta> although my date function is probably a few days out
12:28:06  <Brianetta> and, on occasion, a few hundred years out
12:28:19  <Brianetta> especially with UDP protocol version < 3
12:30:03  <Celestar> ?
12:32:04  <Brianetta> !
12:32:06  <Brianetta> it's true
12:32:12  <Brianetta> use my banner on a 0.4.8 server
12:32:26  <Celestar> who uses 0.4.8 ??
12:32:27  <Brianetta> and it'll say "Started in 1980, now in 1842" or somethign
12:32:29  <Celestar> er wait
12:32:38  <Celestar> it's still the current release :P
12:34:41  <Brianetta> peter1138: Born_Acorn: Can I expect to see a license for the buff0rZ any time soon?  I'm being pestered to include them
12:34:55  <Brianetta> Explicit permission will do, that's what I got from Pikka
12:36:04  <Darkvater> he, had a rather longishly lunch
12:36:12  <Brianetta> Lunch time?
12:36:17  <Brianetta> No wonde rI am hungry
12:36:26  <ln-> does 0.5.0 include newmap?
12:36:35  <Brianetta> ln-: What's newmap?
12:36:36  <peter1138> what is newmap?
12:36:46  <Brianetta> If you mean map accessor functions, yes (most of them)
12:37:01  <Celestar> ln-: newmap has not been started yet, so I guess no :P
12:37:27  <ln-> it was on the roadmap for 0.5, wasn't it...
12:37:46  <Brianetta> So was PBS, once
12:37:48  <Rubidium_> ln-: a roadmap made by wiki-users
12:37:57  <peter1138> only because of some guy's fantasy world
12:38:02  <peter1138> bocius or something
12:38:07  <peter1138> made a shed load of it up
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12:40:03  <Brianetta> Looks like my date routines are now spot-on with 0.5.0
12:40:10  <Brianetta> I fixed the off-by-one error
12:40:29  <Brianetta> where a remainder of 31 days made it the 0th of February
12:40:43  <Brianetta> etc
12:41:06  <peter1138> heh
12:41:07  <Brianetta> but I still have some real weirdness with 0.4 (and older) dates
12:41:21  <Brianetta> I think it's a signed integer issue
12:41:27  <Brianetta> but Tcl doesn't type its integers
12:41:31  <Brianetta> They're just stringa
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12:42:00  * Brianetta has a brainwave
12:42:06  <Brianetta> I think I know where the issue might be...
12:42:07  <Darkvater> peter1138: nice counter (cur_tick/next_tick)
12:43:04  <peter1138> Darkvater: Rubidium_'s diagnosed it
12:43:57  <Darkvater> what was it?
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12:45:13  <Rubidium_> overflowing of cur_tick, but next_tick didn't overflow yet
12:46:05  * peter1138 wonders if it would've fixed itself in 49 days...
12:46:17  <peter1138> gruagh, i'm starving
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12:47:12  <Brianetta> It *is* a signed integer issue
12:48:26  <Brianetta> set current_date [expr ( $current_date + 0x10000 ) % 0x10000]
12:48:45  <Brianetta> I do love modulo arithmetic
12:48:54  <Darkvater> does the overflow of ticks have any impact?
12:49:06  <Darkvater> or your server needs to have been running for at least 49 days
12:49:21  <Rubidium_> uhm, in dedicated under unix it happens every 49 days
12:49:45  <Rubidium_> it being the wrap of ticks
12:50:01  <Darkvater> 49 game-days? or human-days?
12:50:07  <Rubidium_> human
12:50:07  <peter1138> human-days
12:50:14  <peter1138> since 1970
12:50:21  <peter1138> not since uptime or game start
12:50:36  <Darkvater> so peter has been running his server unchanged, uncrashed for 49 days?
12:50:44  <Rubidium_> no
12:50:49  <peter1138> read those two lines :P
12:51:07  <Rubidium_> the time wrap happens *every* 49 days
12:51:51  <peter1138> bah
12:51:58  <peter1138> bloody forums have marked everything as read
12:52:06  <roboboy> heh
12:52:13  <Rubidium_> as the dedicated server under unix uses the amount of milliseconds since 1970 to calculate the tickcount from
12:52:34  <roboboy> hey sometimes leave stuff marked even though ive read it
12:52:36  <peter1138> omg
12:53:45  <Rubidium_> anyway, should fix it
12:54:02  <Brianetta>
12:54:04  <Rubidium_> and I have to leave now :)
12:54:06  <Brianetta> This date thing's nuts
12:54:23  <Darkvater> what is the impact of this wrapping-bug?
12:54:34  <peter1138> Darkvater: the server stops
12:54:46  <Darkvater> good, I like a pause now and then
12:54:59  <peter1138> because it'll wait 49 days for another tick to happen
12:55:07  <peter1138> usually it works, i guess
12:55:22  <roboboy> is that what happened when Brianetta's server hung?
12:55:29  <peter1138> possibly
12:55:35  <peter1138> it's why my server wasn't advertising
12:55:38  <peter1138> but the console is still responsive
12:56:18  <peter1138> fortunately i run my server under gdb
12:56:25  <Darkvater> Brianetta: why not use the function provided in the include/
12:56:31  <peter1138> hmm, although you can attach anyway
12:56:35  <peter1138> Darkvater: cos it's tcl, not php
12:56:49  <Brianetta> Darkvater: Because it's written inphp
12:56:53  <peter1138> Brianetta is the last user of tcl left :)
12:57:04  <Darkvater> poor guy :)
12:57:14  <Brianetta> There's a strong and helpful Tcl community (:
12:57:27  <Brianetta> Well, I fixed the version 3 UDP date problem
12:57:45  <Brianetta> Signed 16 bit integer rolling negative, should have been unsigned
12:57:50  * roboboy likes Brianetta's backwards smilleys (:
12:58:00  <Brianetta> but this one with the #openttdcoop server..
12:58:11  <Brianetta> roboboy: Upside down!
12:58:35  <Brianetta>
12:58:37  <Brianetta> That one's fine
12:58:37  <Darkvater> he stole it from tron!
12:58:39  <Darkvater> ^^
12:58:49  <Brianetta>
12:58:52  <Brianetta> That one's boogered
12:59:10  <Brianetta> Darkvater: I've been smiling upside down since I started IRCing
12:59:16  <Brianetta> Back when smileys were new
12:59:21  <Brianetta> and there was no standard way around
12:59:37  <Brianetta> I grew used to this (-: in 1994
12:59:47  <Brianetta> and everybody else went :-o
13:00:05  <Darkvater> STEAL!
13:00:17  <roboboy> how do i do :D backwards
13:00:19  <Brianetta> I forgive you (:
13:00:26  <Brianetta> You don't
13:00:28  <roboboy> C|:
13:00:36  <roboboy> thats the best
13:00:44  <Brianetta> but D: is so good at expressing dismay that it makes up for it
13:00:54  <roboboy> G:
13:01:11  <peter1138> ]:
13:01:24  <Darkvater> is that a bull?
13:01:28  <Darkvater> ]:-
13:01:31  <Darkvater> mooooo
13:01:35  * roboboy patiently waits for the server to hit 2050
13:01:36  <Brianetta> -:[ ooom
13:01:46  <Darkvater> skinhead :O
13:01:57  <Brianetta> (:)
13:02:07  <Brianetta> (-:-)
13:03:11  <Darkvater> Rubidium_: about that patch, if cur_ticks wraps around, why do you assume it to be 0?
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13:46:21  <roboboy> gnight
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13:46:44  * Darkvater puts roboboy into bed and lulls him to sleep
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13:48:47  <Darkvater> hi glx
13:48:52  <glx> hi
13:51:30  <Rubidium_> Darkvater: because 'next_tick + 30' would not necessarily overflow next_tick when cur_ticks has overflowed
13:51:53  <Darkvater> yes but we assume we want to go in steps of 30 ticks no?
13:52:09  <Darkvater> when cur_tick overflows it could be... 25 for example
13:52:27  <Darkvater> having next tick at 0+30 means the next eaction is only 5 ticks from now and not 30
13:53:04  <Rubidium_> true
13:53:59  <Rubidium_> ok, I've (somewhat) solved that issue, but...
13:54:01  <Darkvater> of course we can choose not to care about that
13:55:36  <Rubidium_> some scheduling not giving OTTD a slice every 30 milliseconds could make it appear slower (I think)
13:55:50  <Rubidium_> <- the new version
13:57:58  <Darkvater> doing gettime twice?
13:58:54  *** Belugas_Gone is now known as Belugas
13:59:07  <Darkvater> hi Belugas
13:59:56  <CIA-1> KUDr * r8021 /branches/cpp/src/ (oldpool.h thread.cpp): [cpp] - Fix: [OS/2] compiler warnings
14:00:21  <Rubidium_> the first one is used for the initialization of the values
14:00:36  <Rubidium_> the second one is in the 'gameloop'
14:01:00  <Darkvater> the first one is in dedicatedvideoloop no?
14:01:09  <Darkvater> or that's only executed once?
14:01:14  <Darkvater> hard to see from diff ;p
14:02:06  <Rubidium_> it's only executed once, as DedicatedVideoMainLoop is executed only once
14:03:43  <CIA-1> KUDr * r8022 /branches/cpp/src/gfxinit.cpp: [cpp] - Fix: [OS/2] compiler warnings (#2)
14:04:33  <Darkvater> ah
14:05:19  <CIA-1> KUDr * r8023 /branches/cpp/ (projects/openttd_vs80.vcproj src/gfxinit.cpp): [cpp] - Fix: (r8022) [OS/2] compiler warnings (#2) reposition 'const'
14:06:34  <Darkvater> looks better
14:10:30  <CIA-1> KUDr * r8024 /branches/cpp/projects/openttd_vs80.vcproj: [cpp] - Revert (r8023) unwanted project file change
14:10:48  <KUDr_wrk> correction of correction
14:13:11  <CIA-1> glx * r8025 /branches/cpp/src/network/network_udp.cpp: [cpp] -Fix:d:/developpement/ottd/cpp/src/network/network_udp.cpp:338: warning: enumeral and
14:15:42  <Darkvater> nice going :)
14:21:31  <Brianetta>
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14:21:33  <Brianetta> Autoshot!
14:21:40  <Brianetta> Random server screenies (:
14:21:58  <Brianetta> I wonder if chat lines will appear there (:
14:22:06  <Darkvater> hehe
14:22:18  <Brianetta> I got the random scrollto working
14:22:27  <Darkvater> no chat it seems
14:22:35  <Brianetta> It assumes that map_x and map_y are correct, which requires care with saved games
14:22:48  <Darkvater> we're also about to remove your ability to make screenshots from the dedicated servers :)
14:22:55  <CIA-1> celestar * r8026 /trunk/src/economy.c: -Fix (r2441) When taking up cargo that is transferring, trains will now also have the virtual profit deducted.
14:23:13  <Brianetta> Darkvater: It's OK, it's only a bit of fun
14:23:21  <Brianetta> Not something I plan to include int he release any more
14:24:15  <Darkvater> Brianetta: how often is it refreshed?
14:24:27  <Brianetta> 450000 millis
14:24:30  <Brianetta> so, er
14:24:33  <Brianetta> wait
14:24:37  <Brianetta> might be a 0 out
14:24:42  <Darkvater> !calc 450 / 60
14:24:42  <_42_> Darkvater: 7.5000000000;
14:24:47  <Darkvater> every 8 mins?
14:25:05  <Brianetta> 450000 milliseconds
14:25:23  <Brianetta> I don't want to overload the server with such a pointless feature (:
14:25:33  <Darkvater> so every 8 mins
14:25:42  <Brianetta> 7:30ish
14:25:51  <Darkvater> 15:24 <@Darkvater> !calc 450 / 60
14:25:51  <Darkvater> 15:24 < _42_> Darkvater: 7.5000000000;
14:25:56  <Darkvater> :)
14:26:03  <Celestar> no ish
14:26:07  <Celestar> 7:30
14:26:21  <Brianetta> well, this assumes that the event loop's timer is accurate
14:26:26  <Brianetta> and that the copy is instantaneous
14:26:49  <Brianetta> It doesn't screenhot into the webspace
14:27:05  <Brianetta> it waits 3 seconds and then copies it with a shell script
14:27:22  <Brianetta> I separated that to a shell script so that I could change it without stopping the game
14:28:07  <Brianetta> Ooh, my auto-grf indicator on my page has worked
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14:28:58  <Brianetta> I might keep this auto-scrollto
14:28:59  <SpComb> Logs:
14:28:59  <Digitalfox_Away> !logs
14:29:15  <Brianetta> even without screenshots, it does make the start place in the game unpredictable
14:29:20  <peter1138> *nod*
14:29:27  <Brianetta> which stops people spelling rude words in bought land on the opening screen (:
14:29:36  <peter1138> heh
14:30:32  <Darkvater> lol
14:31:14  <Brianetta> does scrollto care about out-of-bounds tile numbers?
14:31:21  <Brianetta> I never tried one
14:31:48  <Brianetta> heh, I just thought of simpler maths
14:32:06  <Darkvater> I think it just fails silently to scrollto
14:32:23  <Brianetta> instead of working out X and Y dimensions, then multiplying one by the other plus the one, then multiplying by random
14:32:42  <Brianetta> I can just add map_x and map_y, then raise 2 to that power, then multiply by random
14:32:47  <Darkvater> just pass it a number and % it by MapSize()
14:32:56  <Darkvater> random % MapSize()
14:33:10  <Brianetta> MapSize() isn't available form a Tcl script that has no binary interface
14:33:21  <Darkvater> make mapsize yoursel :)
14:33:33  <Brianetta> I will
14:33:36  <Darkvater> 1<<map_x * 1<<map_y
14:34:05  <peter1138> 1<<(map_x + map_y)
14:34:12  <peter1138> probably more efficient
14:34:49  <peter1138> not that's important
14:35:07  <peter1138> err
14:35:10  <peter1138> not that *it's* important
14:35:30  <orudge> Darkvater: just a fyi, I need to go into town, but once I'm back (hour or so) I'll get the OS/2 patch done
14:35:36  <Brianetta> proc mapsize {} {return [expr pow(2,([get_setting patches map_x] + [get_setting patches map_y]))]}
14:35:45  <Darkvater> well donnu if he can make it only compute once with tcl
14:36:02  <Darkvater> orudge: good, good :)
14:36:16  <Brianetta> I don't know if there's an easy shift
14:36:18  <Brianetta> There probably is
14:36:28  <orudge> Have I misinterpreted things, btw, or do I gather the C++ branch is being merged into trunk?
14:36:50  <peter1138> people appear to want to
14:36:57  <Brianetta> Is this C++ branch just C that compiles with g++, or is it actually C++?
14:37:34  <peter1138> the former
14:37:58  <Darkvater> Brianetta: gaaah your screenshot!
14:38:02  <Celestar> it's mostly still C
14:38:02  <Darkvater> horrible
14:38:05  <Darkvater>
14:38:28  <peter1138> hehe
14:38:54  <peter1138> pikka to the rescue :D
14:39:09  <peter1138> in the latest "use xml instead of newgrf" thread
14:39:29  <Darkvater> link!
14:40:09  <peter1138>
14:40:18  <Darkvater> thanks
14:40:24  <peter1138> and i had to type that, biatch :P
14:40:27  <Brianetta> I thought having the server announce in-game whenever a save completed would be cool
14:40:31  <Brianetta> but it's a bit spammy
14:40:41  <Brianetta> when it saves a copy every time somebody joins
14:40:52  <Brianetta> (the standard anti-vandalism technique)
14:43:01  <Darkvater> haha pikka; good one
14:43:16  <Darkvater> for more dramatic effect he should've included the NFO code that achieves this
14:45:42  *** Digitalfox_Away is now known as Digitalfox
14:46:10  <Rubidium_> ok, what about: (solves the same issue as in the dedicated video driver for all video drivers (though I wonder how many people run OTTD for more than 49 days))
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14:48:03  <setrodox> Rubidium_, the record i had with some friends were 60 days ;)
14:48:21  <Darkvater> Rubidium_: wouldn't be every other 49 day, not more than 49 days?
14:48:29  <Darkvater> as is the issue with the dedicated server?
14:49:22  <Rubidium_> uhm, for SDL it would be after 49 days (every 49 days), for dedicated it's every 49 days, for windows and OSX I don't know exactly what the tickcounter returns
14:51:12  <Darkvater> Retrieves the number of milliseconds that have elapsed since the system was started, up to 49.7 days.
14:51:31  <Darkvater> so windows is uptime
14:51:36  <Rubidium_> yup
14:52:07  <Rubidium_> then it can happen on long running windows systems too
14:52:17  <Darkvater> rofl
14:53:16  <setrodox> heh, i had to laugh at that sentence ^^
14:53:25  <CIA-1> celestar * r8027 /trunk/src/command.c:
14:53:25  <CIA-1> -Fix (FS#486) If a pause command is issues, it will now pause the game even if
14:53:25  <CIA-1> shift is pressed instead of giving a cost estimate of 0. This fixes a problem
14:53:25  <CIA-1> where the server does not pause_on_join when the player on the interactive
14:53:25  <CIA-1> server has the shift button pressed. (Thanks to pvz for the report and the fix)
14:54:14  <peter1138> huh?
14:54:25  <peter1138> that's a luser problem
14:54:54  <peter1138> the problem is fixes is not really related
14:55:11  <Darkvater> nice ingrishc
14:55:15  <peter1138> *it
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14:56:37  <peter1138> -Fix: replaced loo paper. this fixes a problem where my hands were stinky if i couldn't find the soap
14:57:08  <Brianetta> Celestar: That bug's a gem
14:57:16  <Rubidium_> Celestar: you could also have set CMD_SHOW_NO_ERROR when doing the CMD_NETWORK_COMMAND command
14:57:47  <Darkvater> peter1138: is it a user problem that I happen to press shift to get the estimate of a tunnel building and someone joins causing the server to *not* pause just because I was doing something else with shift?
14:58:25  <peter1138> well then i misunderstood the message
14:58:40  <peter1138> so i shall go away and hide
14:58:44  <peter1138> but yes
14:58:45  <Celestar> " This fixes a problem
14:58:46  <Celestar> 15:53 < CIA-1> where the server does not pause_on_join when the player on the interactive
14:58:49  <Celestar> 15:53 < CIA-1> server has the shift button pressed."
14:58:51  <peter1138> nobody should run non-dedicated servers ;p
14:58:55  <Celestar> I kind of hope that was clear
14:58:55  <Darkvater> :)
14:59:10  <peter1138> what about the "bug" that they can't rejoin the game when they go bust? heh
14:59:19  <Darkvater> MiHaMiX: ping
14:59:33  <peter1138> i was thinking it might be nice if you could join a server as a spectator, and then switch to a company without having to redownload the map
15:00:02  <PandaMojo_> peter1138: I like non-dedicated when I just want to play with my IRL friends :3
15:00:28  <CIA-1> rubidium * r8028 /trunk/src/video/ (cocoa_v.m dedicated_v.c sdl_v.c win32_v.c): -Fix: overflow of ticks was not handled properly, possibly resulting a non-reacting gameserver/gameclient.
15:02:20  <peter1138> backport :D
15:02:28  <peter1138> PandaMojo_: well i wasn't being serious :)
15:03:52  <CIA-1> rubidium * r8029 /trunk/src/configure: -Fix (7759): somehow the old configure script was not removed.
15:04:07  <peter1138> lol
15:06:20  <Eddi|zuHause3> <Celestar> what is the problem with city growth? I like the urban areas <- there should also exist villages that stay villages, even in 2020
15:08:08  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause3: yes, different cities should have different growth
15:10:24  <peter1138> *nod*
15:10:37  <peter1138> like in ttdp (possibly ttd, i don't remember)
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15:13:18  <Eddi|zuHause3> probably the current city growth AI should be totally ripped apart, and reconstructed from scratch
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15:13:44  <Darkvater> wb Purno
15:13:50  <Purno> thx Darkvater
15:14:00  <Darkvater> you don't appreciate me :(
15:14:13  <Purno> there's not much enthusiasm for the topic yet, is there?
15:14:15  <Purno> eh?
15:14:36  <Celestar> what topic?
15:14:42  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause3: it will be. by me. soon
15:14:44  <Purno> the scenario contest
15:14:48  <Darkvater> nothing :). DaleStan had a topic where he explained the guy not to use appreciations for 'thank you'
15:15:08  <Purno> eh? I don't get it
15:15:40  <Darkvater> basically it boiled down to that if you can't even bother to say 'thank you' and only say 'thx' when thanking someone you might as well not say it
15:15:50  <Darkvater> ^ I was just kidding
15:16:28  <DaleStan> ITYM "abbreviations"
15:16:32  <Eddi|zuHause3> what he meant to say was that you should call him "my lord"
15:19:25  <Celestar> Brianetta: current date?
15:20:02  <Purno> Darkvater , same thing for "wb" i guess
15:20:14  * Darkvater hides
15:21:23  <Darkvater> Purno: yes
15:21:54  <Purno> besides, I always help my friends if it's necessary
15:22:04  <Purno> typing out "thank you" sounds quite useless to me
15:22:28  <Purno> it's not like I'm ├╝bergreatful you said "wb Purno"
15:22:31  <Purno> TBH
15:22:35  <Darkvater> you aren't???
15:22:38  <Darkvater> I'm appalled
15:22:45  <Purno> I do however like the fact you have asked me to organize that scenario thingy
15:23:05  <Purno> Darkvater , nopes, TBH, I am not
15:23:13  <Darkvater> hehe
15:23:20  <Purno> it's not like you did something big and important for me :P
15:23:23  <Darkvater> not too many submissions though
15:23:28  <Purno> yeah
15:23:32  <Purno> I hope it?l be more
15:23:40  <Purno> btw, will the scenarios in the previous version stay included?
15:23:47  <Darkvater> only that cornwall guy, with the map too blocky and missing St. Michael's Mount even!
15:23:52  <Darkvater> and yours
15:24:03  <Purno> I sent in to scenarios
15:24:10  <Purno> and the cornwall map is blocky indeed.
15:24:14  <Purno> two*
15:25:23  <Purno> but lets hope the best scenarios will come, as they need time to make
15:27:25  <Darkvater> yeah
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15:34:55  <Rubidium_> Darkvater/Maedhros: <- fix for that segfault on removal of town that makes all the strings on initialization of the window
15:37:27  <Maedhros> Rubidium_: nice :)
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15:54:06  <peter1138> Darkvater: that thread's even better now
15:54:50  <peter1138> <Multicar> heh
15:55:03  <peter1138> someone who has no concept of XML, let alone NFO :)
15:55:43  <Eddi|zuHause3> XML is  way too hyped
16:02:13  <Brianetta> A "copyright" flag doesn't contain enough information (:
16:02:31  <Brianetta> XML is all right, but it's best for report-style data
16:02:38  <Brianetta> like COBOL programmers are used to
16:02:55  <Brianetta> highly structured and sequential
16:03:24  <Eddi|zuHause3> i can't imagine newgrfs to be sequential
16:04:03  <Eddi|zuHause3> especially if they're supposed to be turing complete (minus memory limit)
16:06:34  <Eddi|zuHause3> besides, for programmers, XML is way too bloated, and non-programmers don't have enough overview
16:06:53  <Eddi|zuHause3> so whoever you are trying to please, XML won't manage that
16:07:09  <Brianetta> XML is a data language
16:07:24  <Brianetta> People see newgrfs as data packages
16:07:28  <Brianetta> when they are mods
16:07:37  <Eddi|zuHause3> exactly
16:07:43  <Brianetta> with executable code
16:08:02  <Brianetta> executable within an interpreter, rather than ona CPU, but executable nonetheless
16:09:41  <Brianetta> w00t!
16:09:51  <Brianetta>
16:10:51  <Eddi|zuHause3> maybe you should take screenshots of meaningful places (like town centers, or station signs
16:10:56  <Eddi|zuHause3> )
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16:13:12  <peter1138> Brianetta: i like this guys arbitrary tag names made up based on what pikka wrote...
16:13:42  <Brianetta> peter1138: Well, you know, he probably has this enormous hash in mind
16:13:59  <Brianetta> WHat he's proposing could work, but it wouldn't be better in any way.
16:19:42  * Smoovious rubs the sleep out of his eyes, looks at his game.
16:20:21  <Smoovious> hey guys... made it all the way through to the end of a networked game... not a single desync through the whole thing. :D
16:21:03  <Brianetta> Smoovious (:
16:21:38  <Smoovious> my thoughts exactly. :)
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16:22:27  <peter1138> wait...
16:22:29  <peter1138> "end" ?
16:22:35  <peter1138> what is an "end" ?
16:22:56  <Eddi|zuHause3> when the server crashes unrecoverably ;)
16:23:06  <Smoovious> Dec 29th 2040... I'm still connected to the server... my animations are still going so I'm not froze up... nothing is moving
16:23:16  <Smoovious> tho now that you mention it...
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16:23:32  <Smoovious> there should be some kind of winning screen, shouldn't there? (I'm in 1st)
16:23:40  <peter1138> 2050
16:23:41  <peter1138> usually
16:23:46  <Smoovious> ahh
16:23:46  <peter1138> well, 2051
16:23:57  <peter1138> end at 2050 means end of 2050
16:24:02  <Smoovious> ok... you're right
16:24:08  <Smoovious> end-game is set to 2051. :(
16:24:25  <Smoovious> still tho... never got this far in a networked game yet
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16:25:16  <Eddi|zuHause3> i always wanted to ask... why do we have a setting of "end year" but it cannot be modified?
16:25:58  <Smoovious> just lost my network connection. :(
16:26:10  <Smoovious> gonna find out if the host did it himself, or what
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16:27:45  <Brianetta> Eddi: It can't?
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16:29:03  <Digitalfox> Doesn't end year can only be changed in a network game? At least that's why i think you can't change it :)
16:29:28  <Smoovious> the server should be able to change it, but nobody else
16:31:03  <Eddi|zuHause3> i've never made server, but in SP it can't be changed
16:31:47  <CIA-1> rubidium * r8030 /trunk/src/misc_gui.c: -Fix: segmentation fault when removing a town in the scenario editor while having the query tool window open for one of the town's tiles.
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16:32:20  <Brianetta> Rubidium_: Shouldn't that be backported to 0.5?
16:33:35  <Rubidium_> there are more patches that should be backported
16:34:29  <Rubidium_> and 8030 is one of them
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16:36:15  *** GoneWack1 is now known as GoneWacko
16:37:48  <CIA-1> KUDr * r8031 /branches/cpp/ (11 files in 3 dirs): Sync with trunk (r8013:8029)
16:43:46  <Smoovious> ok... it appears that my end still thought I was connected to the server... it only disconnected, when I tried to do something that required sending what I did to the server, which then timed out and 'lost connection'
16:44:00  <Smoovious> but it didn't detect that I wasn't connected until that point
16:46:02  <MiHaMiX> Darkvater: pong
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16:48:24  <Chrill> WAAAH
16:48:36  <Chrill> I need to ask a question concerning the Map Contest
16:48:49  <Chrill> Or, well, concerning .grf on a scenario
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16:49:23  <Chrill> I haven't used any .grf for making the scenario in question, but they have been installed. Now I can't load the map on a clean OpenTTD. Is there a way to "clean" the scenario?
16:50:44  <Rubidium_> open the scenario in the 'unclean' version
16:51:16  <Chrill> well
16:51:26  <Rubidium_> click the wrench, then NewGRF settings, remove all grfs
16:51:33  <Chrill> well
16:51:35  <Rubidium_> and do not forget to click 'apply changes'
16:51:35  <Chrill> I did
16:51:45  <Chrill> But the scenario was made with them installed
16:52:03  <Chrill> And now I can't load scenario without, even though the .grfs in question wasn't used in the scenario
16:52:51  <Rubidium_> yes, so you have to remove them manually from the scenario (once)
16:52:56  <Chrill> well
16:52:59  <Rubidium_> do as I said and then save the scenario
16:53:04  <Chrill> ok..
16:53:05  <Rubidium_> they should be removed
16:58:32  <Chrill> Thanks, it worked :D:D:D
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17:23:40  <FlashFF> does anyone know if anyones ever worked on anything to do with implenenting  mysql use into ottd?
17:24:14  <stillunknown> mysql for what?
17:24:20  <FlashFF> i am teh spell0r!
17:24:26  <FlashFF> logs and such
17:24:40  <FlashFF> real time statistic tracking
17:24:47  <FlashFF> that type of thing
17:25:03  <stillunknown> not that i'm aware of
17:25:18  <FlashFF> hmm
17:25:43  <FlashFF> that means i have to write it allll myself
17:25:49  <FlashFF> which soundds like a mighty amount of work
17:26:15  <stillunknown> have you searched the forum and bugtracker?
17:27:56  <FlashFF> bugtracker yes
17:27:58  <FlashFF> forum no
17:28:04  <FlashFF> forum scares me
17:29:01  <FlashFF> zomg someone stoled my idea
17:29:08  <FlashFF> last july
17:29:15  <FlashFF> lol
17:31:42  <peter1138> why would you "implement" mysql?
17:32:19  <FlashFF> funsies
17:32:26  <FlashFF> the q is, why wouldnt i?
17:33:13  <peter1138> well, what would you do with it?
17:33:17  <FlashFF> its a fast and flexible system  works on many platforms  and could open up endless statistic based possibilities
17:33:41  <peter1138> not to mention that mysql fucking sucks
17:33:44  <FlashFF> i persoally would have it keep a real time track of clients and a day to day overview of company progression on the server
17:34:19  <FlashFF> id also may a registered user section to allow people to become regs and feel more involved
17:34:30  <FlashFF> other games have similar systems so why not this one
17:35:08  <stillunknown> wasted effort maybe
17:37:41  <FlashFF> well i think itd be nice
17:37:51  <FlashFF> whether or not anyone else cared is beside the point
17:42:07  * Smoovious shakes his head.
17:42:36  <blathijs> When designed properly, it shouldn't even be too hard to implement
17:45:21  <stillunknown> blathijs: is an indexed memory pool rare?
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17:47:28  <blathijs> stillunknown: Haven't really done the homework, tbh. I just don't expect there will be anything easily available, at least in C that is flexible enough
17:48:16  <stillunknown> blathijs: memory pools seem mostly pointer driven
17:48:30  <stillunknown> just curious if they have a special name or something like that
17:48:41  <blathijs> Not that I know of :-)
17:49:24  <peter1138> indexed is fairly common
17:49:33  <peter1138> for example, the map stores indices, not pointers
17:50:36  <stillunknown> but the map i hardly dynamic memory allocation :-)
17:50:41  <stillunknown> *is hardly
17:51:03  <peter1138> how is that relevant
17:51:23  <peter1138> every GetStationByTile() uses a pool lookup by index
17:52:20  <peter1138> unless you're referring to something else, of course
17:52:30  <stillunknown> that's oldpool
17:52:37  <stillunknown> the map is not managed by oldpool
17:53:19  <Eddi|zuHause3> you mean you want to poolerize the entire map?
17:53:54  <stillunknown> I'm just thinking about the new map ideas KUDr had
17:54:46  <stillunknown> which would involve a pool for busy/large tiles
17:56:12  <CIA-1> KUDr * r8032 /branches/cpp/src/misc_gui.cpp: Sync with trunk (r8029:8031)
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18:01:17  <Eddi|zuHause3> i'm not sure if i am up to date with the latest ideas
18:01:40  *** Digitalfox [] has joined #openttd
18:02:35  <SpComb> Logs:
18:02:35  <Digitalfox> !logs
18:02:39  <Eddi|zuHause3> so you reduce the size of the current map to the really "important" values? (height, and maybe some basic rail layouts), and get any "extended" information from pool objects
18:03:19  <stillunknown> There were newmap plans, which involved a stacked tile approach.
18:03:56  <stillunknown> The basic tile would be 4 bytes, containing either basic things or an index to a large tile.
18:05:16  <stillunknown> The lack of of real bridges and tunnels is becoming problematic.
18:05:32  <Eddi|zuHause3> yeah, i understood that ;)
18:05:41  *** Wolf01 [] has joined #openttd
18:05:54  <Eddi|zuHause3> i'm just concerned how that would affect performance
18:05:56  <Wolf01> ello
18:05:59  <peter1138> hello
18:06:57  <Eddi|zuHause3> one of the biiiig disadvantages of simutrans was, that every tile was handled as an object, so only after allocating half the map, and really extensive swapping, the game noticed that it ran out of memory
18:07:21  <Eddi|zuHause3> while in OTTD, you just allocate the big map, and it either works, or it doesn'T
18:07:22  <stillunknown> tiles in simutrans are supposedly huge
18:07:45  <Eddi|zuHause3> yes, but the problem is not really dependent on the actual size
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18:08:35  <stillunknown> Eddi|zuHause3: your concern is valid, however, how else can extra tiles be dealt with?
18:09:20  <stillunknown> it's a waste of memory to allocate twice the needed tiles or something like that
18:09:25  <Eddi|zuHause3> i'm not saying it should be done differently, i'm saying it should be done carefully
18:09:59  <Eddi|zuHause3> like: how do you handle if you run out of memory midgame?
18:10:14  <Eddi|zuHause3> it should not just crash
18:10:22  <stillunknown> Eddi|zuHause3: dump a savegame and kill the game?
18:10:40  <stillunknown> if that's possible at all
18:10:47  *** GoneWacko [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:10:56  <Eddi|zuHause3> no, because if you run out of memory, that does not mean you have no place to store anything left...
18:11:19  <stillunknown> the same would happen if you run out memory and you need an extra vehicle
18:11:22  <Eddi|zuHause3> supposedly, the pool is requesting large chunks of memory, depending on its current size
18:11:44  <Eddi|zuHause3> so if you expand the pool, and that fails, the pool is still not necessarily full
18:11:54  <Rubidium_> Eddi|zuHause3: the game can crash now too when it runs out of memory
18:12:02  <peter1138> you only expand the pool when it's ful...
18:12:03  <peter1138> +l
18:12:21  <CIA-1> KUDr * r8033 /trunk/src/ (310 files in 11 dirs): [cpp] - Prepare for merge from branches/cpp (all .c files renamed to .cpp)
18:13:22  <Eddi|zuHause3> ok, maybe i expressed myself incorrectly
18:13:35  <Eddi|zuHause3> if you want to e.g. double the pool size, and that fails
18:13:50  <Eddi|zuHause3> there may still be a lot of memory left to expand the pool
18:13:56  <stillunknown> you don't double a pool size, unless it was very small to begin with
18:13:57  <Eddi|zuHause3> without immediately crashing
18:14:23  <Eddi|zuHause3> you definitely want to expand the pool based on its current size
18:14:24  <stillunknown> you're talking about small amounts of memory
18:14:45  <Eddi|zuHause3> or you end up with expanding it hundreds of times in baby steps
18:15:26  <blathijs> keeping the step size equal does make things simpler
18:15:37  *** glx [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:15:37  <Eddi|zuHause3> anyway, if you can anticipate that you might soon run out of memory, you can warn the user in advance
18:15:49  *** glx|away is now known as glx
18:16:13  <blathijs> Currently, if you run out of memory, the current action will fail (such as building a vehicle)
18:16:25  <Eddi|zuHause3> blathijs: yes, but a 64x64 map might need much different pool steps than a 2048x2048 map
18:16:25  <blathijs> after that, other stuff will probably start failing too, though
18:16:43  <blathijs> Depends, vehicles are still vehicles...
18:16:53  <stillunknown> Eddi|zuHause3: a pool is probably expand in N elements of the size they are supposed to fit
18:17:13  <stillunknown> *expanded with
18:17:22  <peter1138> anticipating running out of memory is not really possible
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18:18:02  <stillunknown> blathijs: can you explain in semi-layman terms why your pool (too) has macros
18:18:57  <stillunknown> long macro's i mean
18:19:00  <blathijs> Because you want to write GetStation(10) instead of (Station*)GetItemFromPool(&_station_pool, 10)
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18:19:18  <blathijs> and more stuff like that
18:19:46  <Eddi|zuHause3> shouldn't that be possible with templates now?
18:19:46  <blathijs> the macro's are not complicated, you just want to have a number of accessors defined for each pool
18:20:06  <blathijs> Eddi|zuHause3: Yes, it wil probably be station_pool->Get(10) now
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18:20:28  <blathijs> that's why I held off dev on the pools the last two weeks (that and time issues :-)
18:20:59  <peter1138> #define GetStation(x) station_pool->Get(x)
18:21:00  <peter1138> heh
18:24:54  <CIA-1> rubidium * r8034 /trunk/src/ (aircraft_cmd.c aircraft_cmd.cpp): -Fix (r8033): aircraft_cmd.c was not renamed.
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18:26:12  <stillunknown> blathijs: so you will adapt your pools to c++?
18:26:28  <Smoovious> <Eddi|zuHause3> blathijs: yes, but a 64x64 map might need much different pool steps than a 2048x2048 map <--- once the map is generated, does it really have to increase much more? at that point, you are just adding bridge/road/track/vehicle/etc data
18:26:40  <blathijs> stillunknown: That was the plan, yes
18:26:50  <Eddi|zuHause3> Smoovious: houses?
18:27:03  <Smoovious> that's still a gradual thing tho
18:27:12  <Eddi|zuHause3> houses are exactly the biggest tiles
18:27:25  <Eddi|zuHause3> and cities grow fast, if you service them
18:27:29  <Smoovious> but it isn't going to increase 1Mb at a moment
18:27:47  <Smoovious> it is still gradual
18:28:01  <blathijs> Eddi|zuHause3: Coming to think of it, I don't think it should be a problem to increase puddle sizes at runtime with the new pools (ie, each block allocated will be bigger)
18:28:22  <blathijs> Perhaps base that on the time since the last memory allocation or something
18:29:01  <Smoovious> say you have 64k chunks of memory... if at some point, you don't have a full 64k chunk available, then reserve another... (much like how I do my food shopping... soon as I open the last unopened box of something, I replace it, so I always have an unopened/unused box available)
18:29:30  <Eddi|zuHause3> Smoovious: and if you throw a party?
18:29:38  <Eddi|zuHause3> you still have only 1 box of everything around?
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18:30:03  <Eddi|zuHause3> and you end up running to the next service station 20 times that night
18:30:04  <Smoovious> if I throw a party, I usually know I'm going to do so ahead of time, and plan accordingly... that is a handled exception to my normal usage
18:31:38  <Smoovious> the only time city growth isn't going to happen gradually, is during map generation, or scenario building... and you can anticipate for that... but during the normal course of a game, no city is just going to explode suddenly...
18:31:54  <blathijs> Smoovious: And if you can't allocate that extra block, go into panic mode :-)
18:31:55  <Eddi|zuHause3> and on the other side, a 64k chunk is probably bigger than anything you would ever need on a 64x64 map
18:32:17  <Smoovious> blathijs... if you can't allocate that extra block, then maybe it is time you replace that 486 with something more recent
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18:32:51  <Smoovious> doesn't matter tho, Eddi|zuHause3... a 64k block is nothing, whatsoever, in relation to what today's computers have available...
18:33:02  <blathijs> Smoovious: I thougth you were proposing something to handle out-of-memory, but apparently not
18:33:07  <Eddi|zuHause3> well, maybe you are running 200 servers or something
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18:33:26  <blathijs> In that case: It doesn't make sense to have full blocks of unused allocated memory around
18:33:30  <blathijs> Memory allocation isn't shopping
18:33:34  <Smoovious> blathijs... no, wasn't proposing the point where you actually run out... but where you anticipate needing more before you get to that point
18:34:03  *** peter1138 is now known as Tron1138
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18:34:37  <blathijs> Smoovious: It won't be less trouble to allocate memory in advance, so nothing is gained there
18:34:39  <Smoovious> they're both resources
18:34:42  *** Belugas is now known as Trongas
18:34:42  *** Tron1138 is now known as peter1138
18:34:46  <blathijs> aah
18:34:50  <blathijs> stop the renaming thing
18:34:50  *** Tron_XxX is now known as MiHaMiX
18:34:51  *** Trongas is now known as Belugas
18:35:00  <blathijs> slams hands against ears
18:35:07  <blathijs> You're driving me nuts!
18:35:09  <blathijs> ;-p
18:35:12  <blathijs> Ah..
18:35:15  <blathijs> Where was I?
18:35:28  <Smoovious> except for perhaps, being able to warn the player it can't reserve any more memory and that he should save his game while he still can
18:35:33  <qball> blathijs: somewhere at being nuts
18:35:38  <Smoovious> or free up more
18:36:07  <Smoovious> instead of just crashing
18:36:08  <blathijs> Smoovious: True, but that won't really help (unless you will unfree all those unused blocks to save space to actually be able to save the game)
18:36:49  <blathijs> But you weren't proposing anything to help the out-of-memory case, you promised ;-p
18:38:15  <CIA-1> rubidium * r8035 /branches/cpp/ (27 files in 7 dirs): [cpp] -Fix: various (parts of) syncs were missed.
18:39:57  * blathijs is away for the night, cya later
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18:43:54  <CIA-1> rubidium * r8036 / (6 files in 2 dirs): [cpp] -Fix (8035): forgot to delete two files.
18:44:56  <CIA-1> rubidium * r8037 /trunk/projects/ (langs.vcproj langs_vs80.vcproj): -Fix (r7987): MSVC project files were not updated with respect to the addition of slovenian.
18:49:55  *** Wolf01|AWAY is now known as Wolf01
18:53:20  <Wolf01> :| all cpp... now i hope i can compile... and i must AGAIN port all the patches
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18:53:48  <stillunknown> Wolf01: the transfer isn't done yet
18:53:50  <MiHaMiX> Wolf01: wait for the merge :D
18:56:09  <raimar2> Rubidium_:
18:56:11  <raimar2> hawk@stone:~/ott/open> make
18:56:11  <raimar2> make[1]: Entering directory `/home/hawk/ott/open/objs/lang'
18:56:11  <raimar2> make[1]: *** No rule to make target `/home/hawk/ott/open/src/string.c', needed by `string.o'.  Stop.
18:56:50  <Rubidium_> raimar2: very much known, as we're currently merging cpp in two stages
18:57:01  <CIA-1> rubidium * r8038 /trunk/ (190 files in 15 dirs): -Merge: the cpp branch. Effort of KUDr, Celestar, glx, Smoovius, stillunknown and pv2b.
18:57:11  <Darkvater> he
18:57:12  <Rubidium_> now it should work
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18:57:15  <Darkvater> just missed it :)
18:58:06  <raimar2> ahh
18:58:22  <raimar2> so what is/was the purpose of the cpp branch?
18:58:25  <raimar2> c++ support?
18:58:46  <KUDr> Java
18:59:02  *** fcbarcelona [~fcbarcelo@] has joined #openttd
18:59:03  <PandaMojo> What!! Not pythong? Or ruby?
18:59:12  *** helb [~helb@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
18:59:36  <raimar2> make[1]: Entering directory `/home/hawk/ott/open/objs/release'
18:59:36  <raimar2> Makefile:211: warning: overriding commands for target `settings.o'
18:59:36  <raimar2> Makefile:207: warning: ignoring old commands for target `settings.o'
18:59:36  <raimar2> Makefile:211: warning: overriding commands for target `signs.o'
18:59:37  <raimar2> ...
18:59:46  <raimar2> [SRC] Compiling and Linking endian_check
18:59:46  <raimar2> [SRC] Testing endianness for target
18:59:46  <raimar2> [SRC] No such source-file: /home/hawk/ott/open/src/=======.[c|cpp|m|rc]
18:59:46  <raimar2> cc   /home/hawk/ott/open/src/=======.o   -o /home/hawk/ott/open/src/=======
18:59:46  <raimar2> cc: /home/hawk/ott/open/src/=======.o: No such file or directory
18:59:49  <raimar2> cc: no input files
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18:59:53  <raimar2> make[1]: *** [/home/hawk/ott/open/src/=======] Error 1
18:59:55  <Nigel> pastebin?
19:00:07  <KUDr> hmm
19:00:20  <CIA-1> miham * r8039 /trunk/src/lang/ (7 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
19:00:20  <CIA-1> WebTranslator2 update to 2007-01-10 19:58:43
19:00:20  <CIA-1> brazilian_portuguese - 15 changed by fukumori (15)
19:00:20  <CIA-1> danish - 23 changed by MiR (23)
19:00:20  <CIA-1> greek - 12 fixed by Kesnar (12)
19:00:22  <CIA-1> japanese - 282 fixed by ickoonite (282)
19:00:22  <CIA-1> slovenian - 1 changed by Necrolyte (1)
19:00:29  <glx> raimar2: it should reconfigure automatically before recompile
19:00:44  <raimar2> it did
19:00:51  <raimar2> no help
19:00:52  <peter1138> make clean might be required
19:01:46  <peter1138> actually
19:01:48  <raimar2> uhh sorry
19:01:52  <peter1138> that's a conflict line :)
19:01:53  <Eddi|zuHause3> raimar2: maybe conflicts?
19:02:01  <peter1138> revert away
19:02:02  <raimar2> the reason was that I had some custom changes
19:02:06  <raimar2> nono
19:02:19  <raimar2> I'm working on train support for trolly
19:02:56  <Rubidium_> never update without knowing what you are going to update, as it can really trash your patches
19:04:30  <Tron> mkdir -p lang
19:04:30  <Tron> cp -u /usr/home/tron/projekte/ottd/clean/src/lang/english.txt lang/english.txt
19:04:30  <Tron> cp: illegal option -- u
19:04:57  <raimar2> uhhh now I get nice c++ errors
19:05:39  <Wolf01> make[1]: *** No rule to make target `C:/msys/home/OpenTTD/trunk/src/window.c', needed by `window.d'.  Stop.
19:06:09  <KUDr> here it works (g++)
19:06:51  <MiHaMiX> Tron:        -u, --update
19:06:52  <MiHaMiX>               copy only when the SOURCE file is newer than the destination file or when the destination file is missing
19:07:01  <Tron> MiHaMiX: it's a GNUism
19:07:28  <MiHaMiX> Tron: yes, as we consider ourselves modern people :)
19:07:39  <Rubidium_> Tron: is there an -u variant for BSD?
19:07:44  <Tron> hint: you are NOT funny
19:07:55  <Tron> Rubidium_: no
19:08:05  <MiHaMiX> Tron: hint: you don't have sense of humour, so it's not a surprise :)
19:08:31  <peter1138> is -u even needed?
19:08:44  <MiHaMiX> peter1138: not really, but that's not the point :D
19:08:52  <Tron> you being not funny is unrelated to me havin a sense of humour
19:09:19  <MiHaMiX> Tron: parse error on line 1
19:09:33  <Rubidium_> peter1138: otherwise it copies english.txt every time when it is unneeded, which causes a remake of table/strings.h
19:09:51  <Tron> it's not cp's job, there's test for this kind of thing
19:10:15  <Wolf01> how to configure without font stuff?
19:10:21  <Wolf01> --without-?
19:10:27  <Tron> [ foo -nt bar ] && cp ...
19:11:02  <Wolf01> np, found
19:11:07  <peter1138> Wolf01: if it doesn't automatically get disabled it's buggy
19:11:18  <peter1138> unless you've got it installed but just don't want it
19:11:51  <Rubidium_> peter1138: it should be automatically disabled now
19:11:57  <Darkvater> do I dare svn up?
19:12:05  <peter1138> not if you have local changes
19:12:39  <Darkvater> grr
19:12:48  <Eddi|zuHause3> <Rubidium_> peter1138: otherwise it copies english.txt every time when it is unneeded, which causes a remake of table/strings.h <- copying should not change the timestamp
19:12:59  <Darkvater> I'll wait some more then
19:13:14  <peter1138> wait for what?
19:13:18  <Darkvater> to svn up
19:13:26  <Darkvater> until I finish my debugging session
19:13:32  <peter1138> heh
19:13:38  <CIA-1> truelight * r8040 /trunk/ (configure source.list): [Configure] -Fix: for some reason, OS2 compiled unix.cpp, not os2.cpp
19:14:09  <Wolf01> ok, seem to compile
19:14:17  <Tron> Rubidium_: why is the -u there anyway?
19:14:29  <Wolf01> seem to run
19:14:30  <Rubidium_> otherwise it copies english.txt every time when it is unneeded, which causes a remake of table/strings.h
19:14:42  <peter1138> doesn't for me
19:14:49  <Tron> Rubidium_: do you understand how Makefiles work?
19:14:55  <Rubidium_> yes
19:15:06  <Tron> then read it
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19:15:37  <peter1138> the target is only made if it's needed
19:15:41  <Wolf01> patching is not possible... now i have only 8000 lines to patch manually
19:15:46  <peter1138> so..
19:15:55  <peter1138> Wolf01: have fun.
19:16:19  <Tron> Wolf01: change the filenames in the diff
19:16:26  <Rubidium_> lang/english.txt: $(LANG_DIR)/english.txt <- (from Makefile) that copy is in here, why this executed when english.txt has not changed?
19:17:03  <peter1138> it's not for me
19:17:12  <raimar2> Wolf01: yes
19:17:48  <Rubidium_> peter1138: hmm, then my make(s) must be very broken
19:17:59  *** fcbarcelona [~fcbarcelo@] has quit [Quit: Abandonando]
19:18:49  <Tron> nice, compiling only takes two and a half times as long as before
19:20:07  <Wolf01> doesn't work, i revert cpp changes with my patches
19:20:13  <Digitalfox> Tron: Maybe a some bug??
19:20:19  <ln-> Tron: "than before"
19:20:29  <CIA-1> peter1138 * r8041 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Regression (r7564): [NewGRF] check_length should skip further processing if a length is too short, so give the function a return value
19:20:34  <KUDr> Tron: max 20% more
19:20:36  <ln-> +longer probably
19:20:55  <MiHaMiX> hm..
19:20:55  <Tron> KUDr: no, 150% more
19:21:19  <KUDr> hmm, it must be something wrong on your side
19:21:21  <peter1138> takes about 20% more for me
19:21:22  <Tron> and that's a rather good value. i've seen about factor four
19:21:35  <Tron> KUDr: no, typical experience
19:21:45  <peter1138> up from 5m50 to 6m50
19:21:58  <Tron> 60 seconds -> 150 seconds
19:22:11  <peter1138> heh
19:22:14  <KUDr> Tron: yes, with boost library and g++
19:22:25  <KUDr> not in this case
19:22:32  <peter1138> i need a faster pc in general :P
19:23:23  <Darkvater> what rev was cpp merge?
19:23:34  <Tron> 8038
19:23:47  <peter1138> 8038
19:23:52  <Darkvater> thx@all
19:23:58  <Darkvater> hmm
19:24:02  <stillunknown> 8032 was the last C working one
19:24:24  <peter1138> right, so, now we have C compiled as C++
19:24:25  <Eddi|zuHause3> Wolf01: you just have to svn up to the revision before the .cpp rename, then svn diff, and in there, replace every .c with .cpp, then update to after the rename, and apply the modified diff
19:24:34  <peter1138> someone had better do some decent C++ work :P
19:24:37  <Tron> oh, and configure still tells me my C compiler doesn't exist
19:24:39  <MiHaMiX> Tron: compile farm worked 2 minutes longer than usually... so it was 17 minutes instead of 15, which is 13% longer
19:24:46  <Wolf01> eddi, i done so
19:25:17  * peter1138 makes a note to change some important header file in every commit just to make everyone have full recompiles
19:25:25  <KUDr> peter1138: it was pain to sync it so i am happy that it happened
19:25:29  <Darkvater> let's time this baby
19:25:30  <Wolf01> but i noticed that tortoise change more lines than the lines to patch
19:25:53  <Digitalfox> MiHaMiX: Compile farm only produced Morphos build
19:26:14  <MiHaMiX> Digitalfox: compile farm produced all builds
19:26:35  <MiHaMiX> Digitalfox: according to TL
19:26:39  <Digitalfox> MiHaMiX: at least not available in site
19:26:43  <Digitalfox> just morphos
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19:27:11  <MiHaMiX> Digitalfox: yes, but the files are there
19:27:21  <Digitalfox> MiHaMiX: you are right the files are there :)
19:27:28  <stillunknown> i went from 75 to 90 seconds
19:27:29  <Digitalfox> just not updated to the site
19:28:49  <Darkvater> what time do I need from time?
19:28:51  <Darkvater> real or user?
19:29:45  <peter1138> user
19:29:59  <peter1138> less dependent on what else is going on
19:32:12  *** tokai [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:33:26  <peter1138> woah
19:33:30  <Darkvater> r8032: user 1m6.476s; r8041: user 1m21.713s
19:33:32  <Digitalfox> I just had a crash with windows nightly just by generating a map
19:33:48  <peter1138> what's all the stuff that moved to hal.h ?
19:33:56  <Darkvater> 24% slower
19:34:41  <KUDr> peter1138: all what is needed for video drivers
19:34:47  <Digitalfox> Hum.. I can't generate any map.. :\
19:34:53  <KUDr> it is purpose of hal.h i guess
19:35:02  <peter1138> hal = hardware abstraction layer
19:35:21  <KUDr> yes, there was video stuff
19:35:45  <KUDr> if you want we can make another extra header for all video drivers abstraction
19:35:57  <KUDr> but hal.h was closest to it
19:36:00  <peter1138> cursors, and drawpixelinfo are distinctly not at the hal level
19:36:10  <peter1138> Rect...
19:36:21  <KUDr> so why they are required by drivers?
19:37:04  *** tokai [] has joined #openttd
19:37:04  <KUDr> logically you are right
19:37:05  *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ
19:37:17  * Digitalfox thinks he should wait that the great devs fix a bug where he can't play at all, not even savegames..
19:37:20  <KUDr> huh tokai==morphos?
19:37:35  <KUDr> Digitalfox: here it works
19:37:45  <KUDr> what platform/compiler?
19:37:56  <Darkvater> I am with peter1138, hal.h only needs the stuff that are extern for the video drivers
19:37:59  <Darkvater> nothing else
19:38:10  <Digitalfox> How do i ativate de debug mode so i can create a crash file to send to you?
19:38:17  <KUDr> Darkvater: it is so now
19:38:24  <Digitalfox> Windows XP, nightly from compile farm
19:38:28  <Darkvater> so why does it have cursor/drawpixelinfo, etc.?
19:38:33  <Darkvater> Digitalfox: start with -d
19:38:34  <KUDr> i moved there only stuff required to compile cocoa driver
19:38:39  <Digitalfox> ok
19:38:47  <Darkvater> cocoa driver should include the headers it needs
19:38:52  <Darkvater> and not pollute hal.h
19:38:59  <Tron> Nov 07 16:39:27 <Tron> 11 seconds for dependencies, 61 seconds for compiling and linking
19:39:12  <KUDr> Darkvater: then it is not isolated
19:39:15  <Tron> that's even before fiddling with SDL_CONFIG and PNG_CONFIG
19:39:23  <Tron> which in turn
19:39:33  <KUDr> and there can't be any C++ specific things in those headers
19:39:44  <stillunknown> huh, you mean running ./configure takes 11 seconds?
19:39:44  <Tron> Nov 07 16:56:08 <Tron> yay, saves another 1.5 seconds here
19:39:44  <Tron> Nov 07 16:56:16 <Tron> about 8.5 seconds here now
19:39:57  <Darkvater> Tron: what are you talking about?
19:39:58  <CIA-1> orudge * r8042 /trunk/ (docs/Readme_OS2.txt src/os2.cpp src/stdafx.h): - Fix: OS/2 compilation with GCC (thanks to Paul Smedley and TrueBrain for their help)
19:40:04  <Tron> stillunknown: in november there was no configure
19:40:08  <Tron> Darkvater: compile time
19:40:36  <stillunknown> the ./configure is fast compared to some
19:40:55  <Tron> stillunknown: there was none at all, so this is totally beside the point
19:41:11  <Digitalfox> KUDr: It says MD5 of TRG1R.grf is Invalid.. I had apllied some newgrf
19:41:31  <Digitalfox> But with the last nighlty didn't had a problem
19:41:31  <peter1138> Tron: heh, configure was there, it just wasn't necessary
19:41:33  <stillunknown> nevertheless, you've got a strange or old system if it takes that long
19:41:41  <KUDr> TRG1R.grf - is this original?
19:41:52  <peter1138> yes
19:41:56  <Tron> stillunknown: what are you talking about?
19:42:05  <KUDr> so how it can have invalid md5?
19:42:12  <Tron> peter1138: and it's still broken here
19:42:16  <stillunknown> Tron: ./configure shouldn't take 11 seconds
19:42:24  <peter1138> KUDr: if it's not looking in the right file... say if it's not lowercasing it
19:42:24  <Tron> stillunknown: are you even reading what i write?
19:42:40  <Tron> stillunknown: the quoted line was from NOVEMBER, there WAS NO configure
19:42:42  <KUDr> peter1138: aha
19:42:54  <Digitalfox> KUDr: No with some newngrf, that i aplied from a newgrf exe file
19:42:57  <KUDr> because here it works fine
19:42:58  <Tron> stillunknown: it DIDN'T take 11 seconds, because IT WAS NON-EXISTENT
19:43:00  <tokai> KUDr: nope.. /me==osx atm. ;)
19:43:13  <stillunknown> Digitalfox: that explains it
19:43:21  <KUDr> aha
19:43:23  <Darkvater> Tron: dep-calculation was taking a long time for us, even after you shaved off big chunks off it
19:43:23  <Digitalfox> but, why does it complain now?
19:43:31  <stillunknown> it always has
19:43:39  <stillunknown> maybe you never noticed
19:43:39  <Tron> Darkvater: that's still totally beside the point
19:43:47  <Digitalfox> I mean until now it loaded always ok.. :\
19:43:58  <Darkvater> it's not. Now it's almost instant, compared to the 20-some seconds it took before
19:44:14  <Tron> Darkvater: i experience a slowdown by at about factor 2. counting or not counting dependencies does not really matter
19:44:14  <KUDr> Digitalfox: so the old savegame with newgrfs is no longer loadable?
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19:44:27  <Tron> Darkvater: i'm just talking about raw time to compile
19:44:37  <Digitalfox> ok, but still got the crash in every time i try to create a map or load a game
19:44:40  <Digitalfox> no it isn't
19:44:58  <Tron> stillunknown: are you talking to me?
19:45:09  <stillunknown> Tron: not the last few lines
19:45:19  <stillunknown> sorry for confusion
19:45:31  <KUDr> Digitalfox: then you did something wrong
19:45:33  <Digitalfox> ok i used the -d command, and now for creating the dump crash file?
19:45:41  <Darkvater> you can't
19:46:16  * Digitalfox scraches the head a bit.. And go to wiki to see how to create a crash file
19:46:17  <KUDr> Digitalfox: try fresh checkout
19:46:25  <Digitalfox> KUDr: ok
19:48:53  <Digitalfox> KUDr: wiat a fresh instalation of nightly with no newgrf it work with no problems.. But i don't get it, before with newgrf it wotked ok, but now with newgrf it doesn't?? :\
19:48:59  <Digitalfox> *with
19:49:14  <Digitalfox> *worked
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19:49:40  <Darkvater> Digitalfox: you CAN'T create a crash file because the nightlies don't have code to create minidump files
19:49:52  <stillunknown> Digitalfox: which newgrf?
19:51:23  <Darkvater> WTF?
19:51:29  <Darkvater> KUDr: const Town* from = (const Town*)fr->from;
19:51:38  <Darkvater> you can't implicitly cast a pointer to const in C++?
19:52:15  <Digitalfox> stillunknown: various newgrf, from dbsetxl, newstations, etc...
19:52:17  <Brianetta> 19:52 <sarah_pilot> Pete has left the game (desync error)
19:52:33  <stillunknown> DIgitalfox: could you find out which is the problem?
19:52:42  <Digitalfox> yes i will try one by one
19:52:44  <KUDr> implicitly? cfom non const to const? yes
19:52:49  <KUDr> it should work
19:52:53  * Darkvater looks up code
19:53:11  <Brianetta> He hasn't re-desynced since joining
19:53:27  <Darkvater> ah sorry, it's a void*
19:53:32  <KUDr> Darkvater: yes, lot of cleanup will be needed now
19:54:12  <peter1138> /home/peter/ottd/trunk/src/ai/../hal.h:150: error: 'SpriteID' does not name a type
19:54:15  <peter1138> meh
19:54:19  <peter1138> shouldn't be in hal :P
19:54:35  <KUDr> Digitalfox: it sounds weird, here i can load old savegames with newgrfs
19:55:05  <KUDr> peter1138: /ai/../hal.h ?
19:55:12  <KUDr> it is ai hal?
19:55:22  <stillunknown> no
19:55:28  <stillunknown> .. is one level lower
19:55:33  <stillunknown> so src/hal.h
19:55:36  <peter1138> openttd.h includes hal.h
19:55:39  <KUDr> so it belongs to ai
19:57:54  <Digitalfox> KUDr: Ok i found it ... I use for some testing TTRS-3.01 for the new roads and depots.. I know it doesn't work properly with openttd witout being newhouses branch, but was testing it for roads and depots.. It makes now crash openttd..
19:58:33  <KUDr> hmm
19:58:49  <KUDr> so you mean it is bug in openttd?
19:58:52  <Darkvater> hmm
19:58:59  <Darkvater> 219	 	                        _station_show_coverage = e->" target="_blank"> - 16;  219	                        _station_show_coverage = (e->" target="_blank"> != 16);
19:58:59  <KUDr> or in TTRS-3.01?
19:59:17  <Digitalfox> i don't know... I just know if load TTRS 3.01 with openttd it crashes.. Before it didn't.. :\
19:59:29  <TinoM> (time make : user    0m18.530s
19:59:29  <TinoM>  ) *G*
19:59:51  <KUDr> Darkvater: before there was '-' that produces also other values than 0 and 1
20:00:03  <KUDr> so it needed different formula
20:00:05  <Darkvater> KUDr: in airport_movement.h why do the directions need additional {}?
20:00:27  <KUDr> DirectionByte is a struct (for now)
20:00:28  <Darkvater> KUDr: I don't think it can produce anything else as the code only goes there when widget is 16 or when it is 17. But it's ok
20:00:49  <KUDr> Darkvater: yes, but compiler didn't know it
20:00:57  <KUDr> and complained
20:01:08  <Digitalfox> peter1138: TTRS-3.01 crashes openttd, can you take a look at it?
20:01:16  <KUDr> i wouldn't change it on my own
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20:01:37  <Darkvater> Digitalfox: ttrsv3 is NOT supported
20:01:43  <Darkvater> Digitalfox: try out the newhouses branch
20:01:57  <Digitalfox> Darkvater, ok but at least it shouldn't crash openttd..
20:02:11  <Darkvater> use the newhouses branch
20:02:36  <KUDr> Digitalfox: 'not supported' means crash << new ISO standard
20:02:39  <Darkvater> 125	 	const ChunkHandler _depot_chunk_handlers[] = {  125	extern const ChunkHandler _depot_chunk_handlers[] = {
20:02:50  <Darkvater> why is 'extern' added?
20:03:00  <KUDr> Darkvater: find better solution please
20:03:07  <Digitalfox> Darkvater: ok.. It's just strange that one day before it didn't crash.. :) But i get the point ;)
20:03:09  <KUDr> i am not happy from it
20:03:10  <Darkvater> but the struct is defined right there
20:03:22  <KUDr> yes, but must be extern
20:03:31  <KUDr> and extern can't be initialized
20:03:33  * Darkvater is confused
20:03:59  <KUDr> only extern is visible for other modules
20:04:07  <Darkvater> in C++?
20:04:16  <KUDr> but in initialization you can't use it
20:04:24  <KUDr> i dunno
20:04:31  <KUDr> i am confused too
20:04:39  <Darkvater> so you're saying the keyword 'extern' has changed functionality with regards to C?
20:04:55  <KUDr> probably
20:04:56  <Darkvater> I always though 'extern' == import variable from other module
20:05:05  <Darkvater> s/variable/object/
20:05:18  <KUDr> yes, but also export it if defined in this module
20:05:49  <Darkvater> ah
20:05:55  <KUDr> without this extern declaration it was not visible from outside -> unresolved external
20:06:07  <Darkvater> ugh... this is going to suck so much
20:06:13  <Darkvater> PlayerID* b = p->share_owners;
20:06:14  <Darkvater> PlayerByte* b = p->share_owners;
20:06:16  *** MeusH [] has joined #openttd
20:06:18  <Darkvater> :(
20:06:26  <KUDr> normally not since you normally have extern in header
20:06:26  <MeusH> hello
20:06:29  <KUDr> so only once
20:06:42  <KUDr> but not in this case
20:06:54  <KUDr> hello MeusH
20:07:09  <MeusH> hey KUDr
20:07:13  <MeusH> what are you developing?
20:07:17  <MeusH> hey caladan
20:07:42  <KUDr> MeusH: just relaxing after one week of big effort
20:08:02  <stillunknown> Darkvater: maybe you should make a todo list of things that are not so pretty now
20:08:08  <KUDr> and explaining my wife why i still have no time to talk to her
20:08:25  <stillunknown> go talk to her KUDr :-)
20:08:30  <KUDr> :)
20:08:31  <Darkvater> KUDr: go offline, we can moan and curse at C++ without you :)
20:08:45  <KUDr> hehe
20:08:51  <peter1138> KUDr
20:08:52  *** mikl [] has quit [Quit: In the end, all that matters is your relation with God...]
20:08:54  <peter1138> bridge->sprite_table = calloc(7, sizeof(*bridge->sprite_table));
20:08:54  <KUDr> you can also when i am here
20:08:55  <peter1138> ->
20:08:58  <peter1138> CallocT(bridge->sprite_table, 7);
20:09:00  <peter1138> looks wrong to me
20:09:03  <Darkvater> do you want a helping hand?
20:09:17  <peter1138> &bridge->sprite_table, perhaps?
20:09:26  <KUDr> CallocT(&bridge->sprite_table, 7);
20:09:31  <KUDr> yes
20:09:33  <peter1138> ok
20:09:34  <KUDr> mistake
20:09:39  <Darkvater> isn't bridge->sprite_table a **?
20:09:40  <peter1138> that's Digitalfox's crash
20:09:41  <KUDr> i am very sorry
20:09:48  <KUDr> ohh
20:10:21  <Darkvater> I told ya this MallocT() etc is going to cause trouble :)
20:10:43  <KUDr> yes we agreed that it can be changed later
20:11:18  <CIA-1> rubidium * r8043 /trunk/src/video/cocoa_v.m: -Fix (8028): forgot setting a variable.
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20:15:33  <Darkvater> but
20:15:42  <Darkvater> overall a very good job KUDr :D
20:15:51  <Darkvater> (so you hear something else from the constant btiching)
20:16:37  <stillunknown> KUDR: have fun, now you can explain your wife why you have time now :-)
20:19:07  <stillunknown> peter1138: i hope you're fixing that bug ;-)
20:19:26  <peter1138> what bug?
20:19:35  <peter1138> the CallocT?
20:20:04  <stillunknown> yes
20:20:06  <peter1138> ah
20:20:07  <peter1138> no
20:20:33  <peter1138> 1) i have source full of massive changes 2) other people could
20:21:09  <Darkvater> 274	 	        return (int32)p1;  274	        return -(int32)p1;
20:21:17  <Darkvater> does this sound like a bug to anyone?
20:21:27  <Darkvater> misc_cmd.cpp:274
20:21:45  <stillunknown> that sounds odd, to say the least
20:22:06  <Brianetta> Darkvater: Having massing desync issues now
20:22:12  <Darkvater> Brianetta: RC3?
20:22:24  <Darkvater> you shouldn't have cheered so soon :)
20:22:31  <Brianetta> yes
20:22:42  <Brianetta> poor edk265 is cursing his ISP
20:22:51  <Brianetta> he's not on long enough to explain what a desync is
20:23:09  <stillunknown> maybe change the entry message?
20:23:35  <Darkvater> ugh :s
20:23:35  <peter1138> Darkvater: some -10000000 are changed to 10000000 elsewhere
20:23:49  <Brianetta> I'm not desyncing
20:23:51  <Darkvater> why has a functional change been made?
20:23:59  <Darkvater> Brianetta: you're probably on since the beginning
20:24:05  <Brianetta> Darkvater: No
20:24:10  <Brianetta> I started tihs while I was at work
20:24:11  <Darkvater> or a longer time than most of us
20:24:18  <Brianetta> let me check
20:24:51  <Brianetta> 14:37 <sarah_pilot> Brianetta has joined the game
20:24:51  <Brianetta> 16:33 <sarah_pilot> Brianetta has joined the game
20:24:51  <Brianetta> 19:22 <sarah_pilot> Brianetta has joined the game
20:24:58  <Brianetta> Just under an hour
20:25:19  <stillunknown> Darkvater: which revs are you diffing?
20:25:35  <Darkvater> can you make a memdump? Not that I can do too much cause I'm on windows
20:25:57  <Darkvater> 8038
20:26:28  <glx> [21:21:16] <@Darkvater> 274                 return (int32)p1;  274            return -(int32)p1;<-- this change is because you can't pass negative values to DoCommand()
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20:26:40  <Brianetta> Darkvater: Memdump, how?
20:26:43  <Brianetta> It's a debug build
20:26:47  <Darkvater> no idea ;p
20:27:05  <Darkvater> glx: ?
20:27:16  <Darkvater> glx: it returns a negative vvalue now
20:27:29  <Brianetta> I needa kcore binary
20:27:30  <glx> it did before as p1 was negative
20:27:36  * Darkvater should probably look at the code
20:27:41  <glx> but now p1 is positive
20:28:07  <Darkvater> glx: so how does one know when to add or to subtract money from a player when return is always positive?
20:28:25  <Naksu> ... that's some horrible kludge
20:29:58  <Belugas> always negative!  They always complain they have too much money!
20:30:01  <Darkvater>  StringID str = IsValidPlayer(ci_to->client_playas) ? GetPlayer(ci_to->client_playas)->name_1 : (uint16)STR_NETWORK_SPECTATORS;
20:30:03  * Belugas hides
20:30:05  <Darkvater> ?
20:30:09  <Darkvater> I thought STR_ was StringID
20:30:10  <glx> !openttd Darkvater commit 7992
20:30:14  <_42_> Commit by celestar :: r7992 /branches/cpp/src/ (main_gui.cpp misc_cmd.cpp misc_gui.cpp) (2007-01-09 11:48:56 UTC)
20:30:16  <_42_> [cpp] - Change the coding of the money cheat. No longer pass a negative value to an unsigned variable and cast it around later on
20:30:46  <KUDr> Darkvater: STR_ were anonymous enums
20:30:57  <KUDr> now it is one big enum
20:31:10  <KUDr> but still not uint16
20:31:29  <peter1138> more enum hell
20:31:31  <peter1138> thanks c++
20:31:48  <KUDr> thanks to C
20:32:02  <KUDr> otherwise it would not be done so
20:32:08  <KUDr> (probably)
20:32:41  <KUDr> name_1 would be enum
20:32:47  <KUDr> and then no cast needed
20:33:15  <Brianetta> What's GDB for dump core of running program?
20:34:57  <Brianetta> Darkvater: People aren't desyncing now
20:35:12  <peter1138> name_1 is a StringID
20:35:17  <peter1138> obviously
20:35:23  <Darkvater> Brianetta: o_O
20:35:36  <Brianetta> I attached gdb, it stopped, I detached it, and everything went fast for a few
20:35:41  <KUDr> but StringID is uint16 and STR_ is enum
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20:35:45  <peter1138>
20:35:45  <Brianetta> but nobody desynced
20:35:47  <peter1138> stupid diff
20:35:51  <Brianetta> or was disconnected
20:35:52  <KUDr> so we are assingning shits
20:35:55  <peter1138> shits
20:35:58  <Darkvater> KUDr: so how would it have been done in C++?
20:36:21  <KUDr> Darkvater: probably StringID should be enum
20:36:23  <Darkvater> peter1138: :O
20:36:28  <KUDr> or its shortened form
20:37:19  <Darkvater> that's a nice solution
20:38:11  <peter1138> now do that for SpriteIDs...
20:38:56  <Darkvater> doesn't a compiler have some upper limit for variable count? ;p
20:39:01  <peter1138> probably
20:39:06  <Brianetta> Darkvater: I can't figure out how to dump core, but my RC3 is unstripped and I have gdb, if you ever need to poke around it as it runs
20:39:23  <peter1138> also
20:39:29  <peter1138> that might allocate storage for each
20:39:40  <peter1138> so maybe a VARDEF (hahahaha0
20:39:52  <Darkvater> Brianetta: I would give it a try if it were windows, but gdb is pretty magic to me
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20:39:59  <peter1138> > gone
20:40:08  <Darkvater> I just thought you had a core last time Rubidium_ asked
20:40:13  <Brianetta> yeah, me too
20:40:17  <Darkvater> have a safe trip peter1138 :)
20:40:30  <Brianetta> Rubidium gave me some command to type
20:40:35  <Brianetta> but I have no logs
20:40:41  <Darkvater> in #openttd?
20:40:44  <KUDr> Darkvater: if you want STR_ to be not enum then 'static const StringID STR_xxx = 34567;
20:40:46  <Brianetta> yeah
20:41:00  <KUDr> static const is not variable
20:41:17  <KUDr> it doesn't allocate space for it
20:41:24  <KUDr> and it has no address
20:42:40  <Brianetta> You think connecting the debugger could have solved a desync issue?  Doesn't seem right to me
20:43:19  <KUDr> Brianetta: 'debugger' means that it eliminates all bugs
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20:43:24  <hylje> :p
20:43:44  <Darkvater> Brianetta: I think he told you in PM cause there is no mentin of it
20:43:45  <Darkvater> only
20:44:48  <Darkvater> 12:34 < Rubidium_> ok, the stripped version is quite useless :( can you relink the binary and send the unstripped version?
20:44:51  <Darkvater> 12:35 < Brianetta> Can you tell me how?
20:44:54  <Darkvater> 12:38 < Brianetta> OK, chopped out the strip flag form Makefile and remade
20:45:49  <Darkvater> KUDr: he, funny that for C++ to work less painlessly with OTTD one should change all enums to static const :)
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20:46:47  <KUDr> Darkvater: what is wrong on enums? They are used commonly
20:46:57  <KUDr> only the g++ is too strict
20:47:18  <KUDr> we could tell him some flags to suppress it probably
20:47:25  <KUDr> but i dunno how
20:47:27  <Darkvater> it'd be probably easier to shut up g++ and use enum operations like we used to
20:47:40  <KUDr> yes
20:47:46  <HMage> read info on g++, there are some flags that make it less strict and more backwards-compatible with C
20:47:50  <KUDr> we can still do it
20:48:31  <KUDr> HMage: we should try it, yes
20:48:50  <KUDr> but i am too stupid for doing it
20:48:56  * HMage reinstalls visual studio 6
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20:51:06  * Darkvater has no idea how to silence it
20:52:29  <KUDr> -Wblabla
20:52:33  <KUDr> ?
20:52:53  <Darkvater> hehe
20:52:57  <Darkvater> -Wshutup
20:53:03  <KUDr> yes!
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20:55:05  <HMage> what is the exact message, KUDr and what is the g++ version?
20:56:09  * HMage installs MSDN Library April 1999
20:56:40  <KUDr> HMage: i don't remember and various versions
20:57:00  <KUDr> many messages about conditional expressions
20:57:14  <KUDr> containing different types
20:57:33  <KUDr> 'enum' vs. another 'enum'
20:57:39  <HMage> you can always run g++ again and reroute error output to a file
20:57:41  <KUDr> or uint16 vs. enum
20:57:44  <KUDr> atc
20:57:46  <HMage> "make 2> errors.log"
20:58:19  <KUDr> i am running windows, but i can try it...
20:58:41  <KUDr> but now i am reading g++ docs
20:59:02  <caladan> dont know if windows has error output...
20:59:04  <HMage> I am asking this so I can help you
20:59:10  <caladan> i guess it will be stdout
20:59:14  <HMage> caladan: it has
20:59:20  <KUDr> HMage: ok, i'll try
20:59:23  <caladan> wow, im impressed :D
20:59:27  <HMage> it's pretty much posix there
20:59:34  <Darkvater> damn this diff is big
21:00:27  <HMage> caladan: that's why I like using standard libraries, they're even on windows.
21:00:57  <HMage> they're there*
21:00:58  <caladan> HMage: I didnt know Bill's really conforming to posix...
21:00:58  <Darkvater> it even has /dev/null
21:01:02  <Darkvater> but they call it 'nil'
21:01:08  <HMage> they call it 'nul' :)
21:01:16  <caladan> i've heard that deep in kernel there's even something like /dev/ :D
21:01:27  <Darkvater> HMage: eh yes
21:01:29  <HMage> deep in the kernel there are BSD sources
21:01:50  <HMage> there is BSD source code*
21:02:01  <hylje> yeah, like the whole IP stack
21:02:20  <KUDr> HMage: it generated file with no warnings but warnings were still dumped on console
21:02:31  <stillunknown> HMage: warning: comparison between 'enum<anonymous>' and 'enum<anonymous>'
21:02:36  <stillunknown> stuff like that
21:02:58  <Darkvater> KUDr: try 2>
21:03:13  <caladan> or maybe &>
21:03:20  <glx> caladan: no that fails :)
21:03:31  <Darkvater> I didn't know that you could have multiple enums with the same value in an enum
21:04:43  <KUDr> yes!
21:04:47  <KUDr> HMage: warning: enumeral and non-enumeral type in conditional expression
21:07:42  <KUDr> "The second and third operands have arithmetic or enumeration
21:07:42  <KUDr> type; the usual arithmetic conversions are performed to bring them to a
21:07:42  <KUDr> common type, and the result is of that type."
21:07:53  <KUDr> but it is not taken
21:08:09  <KUDr> shit g++ :)
21:08:48  <HMage> this warning is to prevent programming mistakes, other compilers just don't warn you
21:09:20  <HMage> use -Wno-enum-promotion
21:09:23  <HMage> to disable it
21:09:38  <Darkvater> isn't that just a proposal?
21:09:40  <KUDr> hmm
21:09:56  <Darkvater> from PR7651 on
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21:11:02  <HMage> or just don't use -Wextra :)
21:11:07  <HMage> or -Wall, afair
21:11:26  <HMage> afair you use that*
21:11:56  <KUDr> hmm
21:15:51  <stillunknown> what's wrong with strongly typed enums (using a wrapper class)?
21:16:37  <KUDr> stillunknown: it is complication (wrapper)
21:17:06  <stillunknown>
21:17:13  <stillunknown> ever tried something like this?
21:17:28  <Darkvater> whohoo done with diff :)
21:18:19  <KUDr> stillunknown: we use it
21:18:48  <KUDr> stillunknown: TinyEnumT<EnumType>
21:19:11  <stillunknown> i saw that, but it's like declaring it twice
21:19:19  <stillunknown> once an enum and once a wrapper
21:19:26  <stillunknown> iirc
21:20:21  <KUDr> yes, it is easier to work with enums
21:20:29  <KUDr> more convenient
21:20:31  <hylje> wrapper for a wrapper in a printed paper on a wooden table..
21:20:47  <KUDr> don't forget that most of us are C developers
21:21:10  <KUDr> wrapper for a wrapper?
21:23:05  <stillunknown> KUDr: i'm thinking about a more permanent solution
21:23:18  <KUDr> stillunknown: ahh
21:23:20  <stillunknown> because enums are needed
21:23:30  <stillunknown> but this is not the pretty way
21:23:30  <KUDr> just enum would be ok i guess
21:24:16  <KUDr> 'enum class E: short'
21:24:27  <KUDr> hmm VC8 only?
21:24:59  <stillunknown> what do you mean?
21:25:50  <Darkvater> KUDr: yes it was VC8 yesterday :)
21:26:21  <KUDr> yes, but it is mentioned in
21:26:55  <KUDr> so it is not only M$ thing
21:27:11  <Darkvater> probably C05?
21:27:16  <Darkvater> or whatever they're going to call it
21:27:33  <HMage> nevertheless, the range of compilers will be very thin
21:27:42  <Darkvater> don't know why this wasn't in the C++ spec right from the start
21:27:55  <Darkvater> if they get so anal about enums they should've fixed it
21:27:56  <KUDr> true
21:28:11  <KUDr> 'so anal' :)
21:28:13  <HMage> maybe it was too cpu intensive during compiling these days?
21:28:18  <Darkvater> and not require every programmer to go around it a zillion times just to get typesafe code
21:28:25  <Darkvater> HMage: lol
21:29:24  <HMage> but, well, isn't forcing to upgrade to a newest compiler version just because of enums is a little bit, er... anal too?
21:30:55  <Darkvater> I'm just saying they were stupid not to think of this
21:31:08  <Darkvater> when they started screwing around with enums
21:31:11  <HMage> I see
21:31:32  * HMage thinks, what the irony would that be - OpenTTD, a open source clone of a 1995-year game that requires 2005-year compiler
21:31:42  <HMage> an*
21:31:56  * Darkvater doesn't see the irony
21:32:06  <Darkvater> it would be ironic if it would only run on Vista
21:33:47  <HMage> Well, I started to use openttd about a year ago just because it ran on windows and stayed true to original TTD Deluxe, plus it had good tcp/ip client/server network gaming that ttdpatch didn't have back then
21:35:24  <HMage> anyway I'm babbling again, see you later
21:35:44  <Darkvater> hehe
21:35:45  <Darkvater> bye :)
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21:45:06  <CIA-1> Darkvater * r8044 /trunk/src/ (heightmap.cpp newgrf.cpp): Regression (r8038): Crash on allocating bridge memory (peter1138)
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21:49:50  <KUDr> Darkvater: we can also make MallocT to use reference to pointer instead of pointer to pointer. This would eliminate the need of '&'
21:50:06  <KUDr> would it be better?
21:50:37  <Darkvater> I have written up a little text about my questions for C++
21:50:53  <Darkvater> and one of them included the question/option of not using references
21:51:21  <KUDr> questions to all developers to decide about style?
21:51:44  <Darkvater> imho it is really confusing to see foo(bar) and then have foo change the actual value of bar because it is passed by reference
21:51:48  <Darkvater> very alien to C
21:52:05  <Darkvater> we should/could discuss this tomorrow
21:52:06  <KUDr> true ;)
21:52:08  <caladan> I agree, it hides what really happens...
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21:52:34  <KUDr> this is why i didn't use it (to have it more C like)
21:52:54  <Darkvater> I see all the C++ books writing about how good passing by reference is in that it hides the workings, but I say screw you I want to know and see what happens to my variable
21:53:15  <blathijs> 21:56  * HMage installs MSDN Library April 1999 <-- I have january 2000 lying here, if you want?
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21:54:49  <blathijs> 21:56  * HMage installs MSDN Library April 1999 <-- I have january 2000 lying here, if you want?
21:55:45  <HMage> blathijs: hmm
21:56:29  <HMage> blathijs: I want, but how?
21:56:58  <blathijs> Well, I got them by mail from some guy I didn't even know from America
21:57:03  <blathijs> (like, snail mail)
21:57:37  <blathijs> But I think we can think of something more 21-century-ish involving broadband connections
21:57:48  <HMage> bittorrent?
21:58:06  <blathijs> How about FTP?
21:59:12  <HMage> Only if you can set up an ftp server somehwere, because I don't have external IP (I'm behind provider's NAT)
21:59:23  <HMage> somewhere*
22:01:14  <caladan> wha't the size?
22:01:16  *** hylje [hylje@] has joined #openttd
22:01:20  <caladan> what's*
22:04:08  *** Purno [] has quit [Quit: Life is a game of pick-up-sticks, played by fucking lunatics.]
22:05:55  <blathijs> caladan: 4 CD's, but I have an FTP server myself. My workstation runs linux and is on a 100Mbit uplink :-)
22:06:07  <caladan> ah, ok :-)
22:06:20  *** Belugas is now known as Belugas_Gone
22:06:22  <caladan> so mine 256kb uplink would be any help anyway... :/
22:06:34  <caladan> wouldn't*
22:09:13  <blathijs> Nope, but thanks for the offer anyway :-)
22:10:35  *** GoneWacko [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:14:28  <blathijs> oeh, nice
22:14:37  <blathijs> I have tab completion for ./configure arguments
22:14:52  <blathijs> it seems bash executes ./configure --help to look them up or something :-S
22:14:58  *** pecisk [] has quit [Quit: J?iet prom]
22:16:32  <Darkvater> bash_complete?
22:16:40  <Darkvater> yeah
22:16:46  <Darkvater> it also works for some makefiles
22:17:50  <blathijs> dunno, I uncommented something from a default debian install :-)
22:18:05  <blathijs> difference that makefiles can be guessed by _parsing_ them
22:18:17  <blathijs> I think it guessed configure's arguments by _running_ it
22:18:30  <qball> yeah bash/dash does that (and most shells)
22:18:55  <caladan> did anyone used fltk?
22:19:06  <caladan> *use
22:19:24  <blathijs> fltk?
22:19:27  <blathijs> (that's a no)
22:19:32  <caladan> rgr :D
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22:22:52  <Biff> blathijs: i dunno how it works with configure, but bash autocompletion is quite coo
22:22:56  <Biff> cool
22:23:00  <Biff> try scp
22:23:07  <Biff> you can tab files on the remote host
22:23:17  <caladan> :>
22:23:21  <Biff> provided you dont need password
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22:24:30  <blathijs> Biff: Yes, that's even more scary
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22:24:48  <blathijs> Biff: I tried that some years back, to a host that was standing behind
22:24:50  <blathijs> It didn
22:25:11  <Biff> dunno if it worked years ago, it works now
22:25:23  <blathijs> It didn't hit me what it was doing exactly until I realized that every press of "tab" would rattle the hard drive in the machine _behind_ me
22:25:39  <Biff> ah
22:25:41  <Biff> hehe
22:26:41  <Biff> ooh, someone fixed the tab thingy
22:28:07  <Biff> no wait
22:28:31  <Darkvater> ugh
22:28:40  <Darkvater> apply patches from before cpp is a bitch
22:28:52  <Biff> why?
22:28:52  <Darkvater> tortoisesvn even flat-out refuses this
22:29:08  <Biff> cant you just rename from c to cpp in the patch-file?
22:29:17  <Darkvater> Unknown file type on line X
22:29:19  <Darkvater> *crash*
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22:29:46  <Darkvater> so I used gnu patch which had some failed hunks due to cpp magic :)
22:30:14  <Rubidium_> Darkvater: apply to the revision between the big rename and the cpp merge, then update :)
22:30:34  <Darkvater> it didn't like the rename either
22:30:40  <Darkvater> well gnu-patch did
22:30:50  <Darkvater> but tortoisemerge is just dumb
22:31:23  <Darkvater> I think I can forget automatic backporting to 0.5 since the source-file renames
22:31:51  <Rubidium_> yes
22:31:52  <Biff> oh, tortoise is eclipse?
22:32:01  <Biff> i thought it was a standalone program
22:32:04  <Rubidium_> unless it's only one file, then you can backport it by giving the full path
22:32:16  <Darkvater> Biff: eclip-what?
22:32:32  <Darkvater> Rubidium_: yeah; and how often is that? ;)
22:32:33  <Biff> oh never mind
22:32:36  * Darkvater hates eclipse
22:33:06  <Biff> i like it for java
22:33:15  <Darkvater> I hate it for everything
22:33:28  <Biff> everything else vim
22:33:29  <Biff> :P
22:33:32  <HMage> maybe bash doesn't parse or execute configure at all, some of the parameters are typical for configure (like bindir)
22:33:45  <Darkvater> Rubidium_: what did you tell Brianetta last time to how to make a core dump from gdb?
22:33:52  <Rubidium_> hmm... the masterserver_update suffers from merging the cpp branch
22:34:01  <Biff> and since /etc/bash_completion is closed source, we can never find out how it works
22:34:03  <Rubidium_> pff... hmm, lets get the logs for that :)
22:34:16  <Darkvater> I couldn't find it in th elogs
22:36:14  <Biff> only bad thing about bash_completion is that its real slow
22:36:29  <Rubidium_> ok, here it is: generate_core_file
22:37:09  <Darkvater> he
22:37:15  <Darkvater> no wonder I couldn't find it; you said it in PM
22:37:33  <Rubidium_> I didn't
22:37:44  <Darkvater> it's not in my #openttd.log file
22:37:56  <Darkvater> [tfarago@tin 23:36 ~] > grep -ni "generate_core" irclogs/#openttd.log
22:37:57  <Darkvater> 442854:23:36 < Rubidium_> ok, here it is: generate_core_file
22:38:07  <Rubidium_> oh, it is, generate-core-file :)
22:38:33  <CIA-1> maedhros * r8045 /branches/newhouses/ (65 files in 9 dirs): [NewHouses] -Sync with trunk r7961:8030
22:38:41  <Darkvater> better ;0
22:38:56  <Maedhros> now's the part i ask for help :)
22:39:29  <Darkvater> hehe
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22:53:10  <Wolf01> 'night all
22:53:24  *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@] has quit []
23:11:58  *** Vikthor [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
23:18:49  *** Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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23:26:12  <Maedhros> wtf?!
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23:30:35  <Darkvater> hi Bjarni
23:32:48  <Maedhros> g'night everyone
23:32:52  <Darkvater> gn
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23:36:18  <Bjarni> hi Darkvater
23:36:57  <Bjarni> anything interesting happening?
23:37:02  <Darkvater> cpp got merged
23:37:26  <Bjarni> :D
23:37:29  <Bjarni> I hope
23:38:21  <Bjarni> we should reconfigure the svn mail thing to tell about major commits, but leave out the diff
23:38:40  <Bjarni> so people will know stuff like merging branches and so on
23:39:02  <Bjarni> right now the mails get too big and are not sent at all
23:39:06  <Darkvater> hehe TL is pretty allergic to mailman :)
23:39:48  <Bjarni> so that's why you hid the merge from me?
23:40:06  <Darkvater> I ain't hid no thing
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23:44:51  <CIA-1> glx * r8046 /branches/newhouses/ (404 files in 18 dirs): [newhouses] -Sync with trunk r8030:r8044 (doesn't link)
23:56:48  <Smoovious> hmm... I can't stay connected to a server now... just made some ships...
23:57:11  <Smoovious> and don't think it is just me, cuz I can't stay connected as an observer either
23:57:23  <Darkvater> desync?
23:57:47  <Darkvater> which server?
23:58:04  <Smoovious> !! #RC3# Connum's Testserver
23:58:09  <Darkvater> ip?
23:58:24  <Digitalfox> So what's the overal opinion about the merge of branch cpp?? Did it work out well in end or still some problems about c++ language?
23:58:28  <Smoovious> don't think it was a desync, like before... but that my end is hanging so long trying to do something, that I keep timing out
23:58:54  <Smoovious> IP
23:58:55  <CIA-1> rubidium * r8047 /trunk/ -Revert (8002): cp -u is not supported on all platforms.
23:59:32  <Darkvater> I'm in
23:59:53  <Smoovious> I get one step of animation, then it just hangs for a bit

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