Log for #openttd on 23rd February 2007:
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00:00:19  <Sacro> awww :(
00:00:28  <Roel> you can?
00:01:10  <Sacro> oooh
00:01:14  <Sacro> Lunar Eclipse on the 3/3
00:01:33  <Bjarni> don't go too close
00:02:30  <Roel> hmm, i didn't know there was a moon in ttd?
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00:10:26  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r8851 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#643] (r8735): crash on removing town owned roads outside of the local authority.
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00:17:54  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r8852 /trunk/src/ (road.h road_cmd.cpp station_cmd.cpp):
00:17:54  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix (r8735): make the dynamite tool for drive through road stops as if it were removing a normal road tile (consider the local authority and such).
00:17:54  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix (r8735): remove drive through road stops on town owned roads when going bankrupt/being removed.
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01:00:20  <UnderBuilder> what should be the most anonnying port of ottd?
01:00:22  <UnderBuilder> nes?
01:00:52  <Eddi|zuHause2> port it to my microwave ;)
01:01:02  <Naksu> most annoying?
01:01:11  <Naksu> port it to a typewriter
01:01:26  <Naksu> or perl, for developer annoyance
01:01:57  <Eddi|zuHause2> Zuse Z3 ;)
01:02:01  <UnderBuilder> lol typewriter
01:02:10  <UnderBuilder> maybe atari will be nice
01:02:47  <UnderBuilder> or why not abacus?
01:03:04  <UnderBuilder> (insert biggest lol emoticon in the world)
01:03:16  <Eddi|zuHause2> what is an abacus?
01:04:02  <UnderBuilder> sorry, my spellchecker give the wrong word
01:04:14  <UnderBuilder> not spellchecker
01:04:17  <UnderBuilder> traductor
01:05:04  <UnderBuilder>
01:05:10  <UnderBuilder> something like that
01:05:53  <Eddi|zuHause2> now that you mention it, yes, i heard that word before ;)
01:06:01  <Eddi|zuHause2> so it is probably correct
01:06:45  <UnderBuilder> maybe not so annonying but a basic port will be fun :)
01:07:04  <UnderBuilder> BASIC for better readability
01:07:27  <Eddi|zuHause2> port it to brainfuck ;)
01:07:49  <UnderBuilder> or whitespace :))
01:11:58  <Eddi|zuHause2> but the Z3 commandset is interesting, it lacks a conditional branch command, and it took them like 60 years to prove that it is actually turing complete ;)
01:16:13  <UnderBuilder> well j2me will be ultra-mega slow so include it :)
01:17:34  <Naksu> er
01:17:57  <Naksu> i don't think you can actually port openttd to brainfuck
01:18:51  <Naksu> like, even in theory
01:21:39  <Eddi|zuHause2> why? brainfuck is turing complete, you can port every program to it
01:21:51  <Naksu> the original implementation isnt turing complete
01:22:00  <Naksu> it has 30k cells
01:22:37  <Eddi|zuHause2> that is an entirely different story
01:25:30  <Naksu> some implementations are turing-complete
01:25:36  <Naksu> but they're not the original brainfuck
01:29:09  <Eddi|zuHause2> it is total rubbish to take memory restrictions into such kind of discussions
01:29:34  <Eddi|zuHause2> with memory growing exponentially
01:29:34  <Naksu> no :)
01:30:16  <Eddi|zuHause2> 10 years ago, you'd never find computers supporting 1GB of memory
01:30:20  <Naksu> i'm not saying that the machine original brainfuck ran had 30k of memory, i'm saying the compiler/interpreter itself was capped at 30k
01:30:46  <Eddi|zuHause2> "interpreter" = "the machine it runs on"
01:31:08  <Eddi|zuHause2> and C(++) is also not what it originally was
01:31:20  <Eddi|zuHause2> languages evolve
01:33:41  <Eddi|zuHause2> no real computer is turing complete
01:33:56  <Eddi|zuHause2> as you always have limited memory
01:34:04  <Eddi|zuHause2> (i.e. finite states)
01:34:05  <Tefad> yay brainfuck
01:34:25  <Tefad> Eddi|zuHause2: servers had 1G..
01:34:45  <Tefad> hell, i can upgrade my 1997 mac to 1G
01:37:40  <Eddi|zuHause2> well, ok, that were totally arbitrary numbers
01:39:11  <Tefad> ; )
01:39:56  <Tefad> nothing is ever turing complete if infinite states are required
01:41:51  <Tefad> Naksu: assuming one can define direct access locations in BF memory space (eg for graphics output); it wouldn't be extremely hard to port ottd to bf
01:42:20  <Tefad> it would be from from efficient
01:44:30  <Eddi|zuHause2> well, i am sure brainfuck programs can be heavily optimized ;)
01:45:54  <Eddi|zuHause2> it's just not an ideal language to transform into x86 (or other 'practical-purpose' CPUs) machine languages
01:46:16  <Eddi|zuHause2> but neither is java-bytecode, and they use it anyway
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01:48:59  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r8853 /trunk/src/ (27 files in 2 dirs): -Cleanup: doxygen changes. Correct forgotten c files to cpp files with the @file tag as well as a few general comments style
02:08:51  <Eddi|zuHause2> btw it would probably be easier to port an intermediate language to brainfuck, and then compile the c program via that intermediate language
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02:18:24  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r8854 /trunk/src/saveload.cpp: -Fix(r8853): Ctrl+s (save) without Ctrl does not produce desired result...
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08:03:36  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: tron * r8855 /trunk/src/economy.cpp:
08:03:36  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix
08:03:36  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Change some shift and cast mumbo jumbo for inflation calculation to something remotly comprehensible and explain what the magic number "54" means
08:05:36  <peter1138> you mean it's not totally magic?
08:05:48  <Tron> read the comment (:
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08:07:30  <Tron> it's almost as strange as the answer to life, universe and everything, but it didn't take the largest computer ever built to calculate the question (;
08:11:52  <peter1138> /home/peter/ottd/trunk/src/aystar.cpp:5:1: warning: "/*" within comment
08:11:53  <peter1138> hmm
08:12:02  <guru3> that's... funky
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08:12:07  <hylje> meta-comments :o
08:12:24  <peter1138> Belugas :D
08:12:43  <Tefad> happens when i have block comments inside something i want to comment out
08:13:00  <Tefad> i usually do #ifdef GIANT_COMMENT #endif around it instead.
08:13:27  <Tefad> however since ottd code is all cpp, most of that is avoided since line comments go in as //
08:16:10  <peter1138> *snigger*
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08:19:28  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: tron * r8856 /trunk/src/aystar.cpp:
08:19:28  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix
08:19:28  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Missing */ (r8853)
08:37:38  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: celestar * r8857 /trunk/src/ (30 files in 4 dirs): -Documentation: Added some doxygen @file tags, repaired others (the @file tag MUST be found before any line of code, that includes preprocessor directives).
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09:03:38  <Darkvater> morning
09:03:53  <Darkvater> Maedhros: I doubt showing this error message +STR_NEWGRF_ERROR_VERSION_NUMBER                                 :{RED}{STRING} {SILVER}{STRING} requires at least pseudo-TTDPatch version {STRING}.
09:03:59  <Darkvater> has any meaning in openttd context
09:04:30  <Darkvater> although I wonder why it needs STR_orizing
09:04:53  <peter1138> translating
09:05:16  <peter1138> translating error messages ahoy
09:06:24  <Maedhros> Darkvater: i've been given that message before... admittedly that was before we upped the version numbers
09:06:44  <Maedhros> and since it's possible to be given that message, we might as well let it be translated
09:06:51  <peter1138> yeah, you get the message, but it's meaningless
09:07:04  <Maedhros> true
09:07:31  <Maedhros> i'm going to have to rethink the whole thing though, since as Rubidium pointed out it's possible to change language during the game
09:07:46  <Darkvater> imho, it's better to just have the error message that it doesn't work
09:30:14  <Brianetta> Sergej_S - a powerful force for good, as long as he's given a bunch of free graphics...
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09:56:24  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r8858 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Codechange: Replace magic number test with class method for determining if a cargo is valid/active.
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09:58:20  <Darkvater> Brianetta: he ;)
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10:35:39  <Darkvater> hmm
10:35:52  <Darkvater> Rubidium: so where are we commenting functions now? In header files or in source files?
10:40:27  <Rubidium> global functions in a global place, i.e. the headers and non-global ones locally, i.e. in the source files? Or did I miss something in the documenting style?
10:41:10  <Darkvater> ah, good
10:41:23  <Darkvater> although this is contrary to the current methodology
10:41:31  <Rubidium> the current code is at least inconsistent and I could not find a rule that states where it should be
10:42:22  <Darkvater> not saying whether it's good or bad what we have now
10:43:28  <Darkvater> although if it doesn't matter to doxygen doing all commenting in c files is easier
10:44:28  <Rubidium> so basically document the function where it is implemented
10:44:58  <Darkvater> is that what you are saying or what I am saying or what the new style says?
10:45:49  <Rubidium> what you are saying, with the exception that static inlines in .h files are documented in their .h file
10:46:07  <Darkvater> he
10:46:08  <Darkvater> I mean
10:46:13  <Darkvater> is what I am saying wrong?
10:46:37  <Darkvater> eg doxygen a function at its definition or its decleration is I guess what I'm asking
10:47:06  <Rubidium> I think it doesn't matter for doxygen
10:47:48  <Darkvater> yes, but where should we do it? :)
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10:52:15  <Rubidium> I would say in the header except for functions that are declared and defined in a .c file. This way you can search for the function name in the headers and immediatelly see the documentation, instead of trying to find out where the documentation actually is (in case someone is reading the code itself instead of the doxygenned documentation)
10:53:28  <Darkvater> well, rightclick > goto definition ;)
10:53:58  <Darkvater> works in all editors and with ctags
10:54:19  <Rubidium> rightclicking doesn't work with putty
10:54:29  <Darkvater> ctags does
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11:04:42  <Rubidium> Darkvater: I do not really care where the doxygen documentation is, as long as it is consistent and documented properly
11:05:20  * Darkvater was curious
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11:18:02  <Darkvater>
11:18:14  <Darkvater> hehe, a bugreport about a non-existing directsound driver
11:22:28  <Smoovious> a non-existent bug then?
11:22:45  <Darkvater> probably
11:23:07  <Darkvater> but even if we were not to release the direct-somethingn driver, windows would when the process is closed
11:24:36  <Smoovious> possibly
11:24:47  <Smoovious> we _are_ talking about Windows, after all...
11:24:59  <Smoovious> it doesn't always wanna release a port or a file lock...
11:25:33  <Darkvater> yea it's pretty sloppy about file locks
11:25:47  <Smoovious> especially on shares
11:26:25  <Smoovious> I gotta remount a drive at least once a week to get the file locks cleared... (I know there is a utility to do it, but I never found out what it was)
11:26:53  <Darkvater> he
11:28:19  <hylje> utilities to work around bugs ftl
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11:35:40  <Darkvater> Rubidium: I'll get to backporting for 0.5, ok?
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11:45:07  <HMage> Let's try UTF8 here - "????? ??? ???? ?????? ?????????? ???????, ?? ????? ???."
11:45:20  <Darkvater> oh HMage :)
11:45:34  <Darkvater> HMage: << I commented in the todo's what could be improved
11:45:48  * HMage takes a look
11:45:51  <Darkvater> I think it's about ready though unless I did something really stupid
11:46:15  <HMage> btw, what happens if you choose directmusic driver for music and null for sound?
11:46:36  <Darkvater> nothing, extern dsound is NULL and it just works
11:47:01  <Darkvater> you cannot compile dmusic without dsound or vv
11:47:12  <HMage> I mean, via command line parameters
11:47:19  <Darkvater> 12:46 < Darkvater> nothing, extern dsound is NULL and it just works
11:47:35  <HMage> I see.
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11:49:16  <HMage> is it still louder than MME counterpart?
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11:49:53  <Darkvater> a little, unless I correct the attenuation with *1.5 but screw that
11:49:55  <Darkvater> btw
11:50:13  <Darkvater>
11:50:18  <Darkvater> WTF happened here?
11:50:33  <Darkvater> I get these huge blocks and the zeppelin isn't even centred
11:50:50  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r8859 /trunk/src/ (19 files): -Cleanup: doxygen changes. Mostly @files missing tags and a few comments style.
11:50:55  <HMage> max block size smaller than zeppelin sprite dimensions?
11:51:06  <Darkvater> I have no idea
11:51:12  <Darkvater> but it looks pretty crap
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11:52:04  <HMage> +#pragma comment(lib, "dsound.lib") // XXX - does mingw or other compilers support this?
11:52:06  <HMage> no, they don't.
11:52:18  <HMage> it's microsoft-specific.
11:52:33  <Darkvater> yes, thought so. But I'm lazy to change the project files atm ;p
11:52:43  <Darkvater> although the mingw compiler should support it
11:53:05  <HMage> mingw is gcc, and gcc doesn't want to emulate msvc :)
11:53:27  <HMage> same reason why asm() is AT&T style only
11:55:22  <HMage> eh, well, looks ok. Everything else is at nitpicking level (like LinearTodB returns hundreths of dB, while the function name doesn't specify that)
11:56:36  <Tefad>
11:58:28  <HMage> is buffers a vector? when reaching max_channels, we could just stop the buffer from front()
11:59:08  <Darkvater> hmm, good point
11:59:24  <Darkvater> I'll put this on the todo list for when sound-priorities are implemented
11:59:34  <HMage> ok
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12:00:23  <HMage> but I think even if sound priorities are not implemented, this is sort of a must. (disappearing sound of a mouse clicking on an interface is quite disorienting imho)
12:00:58  <HMage> can you compile and give me a windows binary to test?
12:01:22  <Darkvater> isn't it more disorienting to have the game drop your looong train-chochoo because you clicked on a button?
12:01:44  <Darkvater> sure...building
12:01:48  <peter1138> just increase the number of channels
12:01:54  <peter1138> 1000 should be enough
12:01:58  <HMage> :D
12:02:10  <Darkvater> peter1138: :) I could drop the channel limit, it's only arbitrary
12:03:02  <HMage> dsound can handle 1000 voices, not sure about other interfaces though
12:07:35  <Darkvater>
12:09:37  <HMage> what version is it built against?
12:09:53  <Darkvater> head
12:11:16  <HMage> uh oh, I'll need lng and other stuff too. (don't have the ability to compile sources on my own rigth now)
12:11:35  <Darkvater> you have the data files, right?
12:12:22  <HMage> original ttd ones? yes
12:12:40  <Darkvater>
12:13:38  <HMage> one moment
12:17:26  <Darkvater> Rubidium: comments?
12:17:47  <MiHaMeK> Darkvater: http 404
12:17:59  <Darkvater> good comment
12:18:22  <HMage> lol
12:19:08  <Darkvater> re
12:19:28  <MiHaMeK> ahh, ok, 200
12:20:48  <Darkvater> re
12:20:58  <Darkvater> re
12:21:06  <Darkvater> re
12:21:07  <Darkvater> ;p
12:21:16  <Darkvater> the ones with '?' I am not sure about and need to ask
12:26:53  <Darkvater> Belugas: what happened to the @file comments in the sound/music/video folders?
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12:32:16  <HMage> Darkvater: seems to work
12:34:56  <Darkvater> yes, seems :)
12:35:09  <HMage> music suddenly stopped
12:35:13  <HMage> right now
12:35:38  <HMage> I was activating my other sound cards to test on them too
12:36:26  <HMage> music doesn't work, stop-play-stop-play-next-stop-next-play doesn't start music
12:37:06  <HMage> Do you know what is the longest sound sample? I'd like to try something
12:37:07  <Darkvater> well you probably shouldn't have activated sound cards during gameplay
12:37:21  <HMage> other games feel fine to that :)
12:37:22  <Darkvater> don't think I had anything to do with that though
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12:38:03  <Darkvater> longest sound...donnu perhaps SND_0E_LEVEL_CROSSING?
12:38:13  <Darkvater> or SND_1A_BUS_START_PULL_AWAY_WITH_HORN
12:38:29  <HMage> when the level crossing sound happen?
12:38:47  <Darkvater> when you call StartSound(SND_0E_LEVEL_CROSSING)
12:38:49  <Darkvater> ;p
12:39:05  <HMage> and when it gets called? :)
12:39:25  <Darkvater> when a train goes over a road
12:39:36  <HMage> ah, ding-ding-ding-ding?
12:39:44  <Darkvater> yes
12:40:08  * HMage constructs a hellish rollercoaster ride over a busy bus road :)
12:42:25  <HMage> there's audible click at start of some sounds. Maybe you misaligned audio data start position a little and audio headers are played?
12:42:48  <Darkvater> I didn't mess with that
12:42:58  * HMage tries mme
12:43:44  <HMage> is mme default or dsound?
12:43:56  <Darkvater> dsound is first
12:49:12  <HMage> yup, mme doesn't have the click
12:49:20  <HMage> I've recorded the click
12:50:04  <hylje> omg, interface clicks?!
12:50:21  <Smoovious> wouldn't the longest sound probably be the morse-code sound for summary news?
12:52:47  <Darkvater> HMage: hmm which sound is it? Does the sound all alone have the same click?
12:53:06  <Darkvater>
12:53:08  <HMage> no, it clicks only if there's another sound playing.
12:53:43  <Darkvater> which sound(s)?
12:53:45  <HMage> as far as I hear
12:53:48  <HMage> any sound
12:53:59  <HMage> - 452kb
12:54:04  <HMage> hear it yourself
12:54:21  <Eddi|zuHause> .wav.mp3?
12:54:57  <Smoovious> could the sound be edited to do a very short/quick fade-in and fade-out at the end? like only a fraction of a second? might minimize or eliminate the click, depending on if the click is caused by the waveform starting off of a normalized position
12:55:11  <HMage> I was lazy to rename it to .mp3 properly. it's how LAME names files - adds ".mp3"
12:56:01  <HMage> Smoovious: no, it's not the cause of it, when there's nothing playing and something starts to play - no clicks at all.
12:56:22  <Smoovious> well, that's what I'm thinking...
12:56:26  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Darkvater * r8860 /trunk/src/ (15 files in 4 dirs): -Cleanup: some style changes, proper #endif comments, variable initialisation, WINCE ifdef and a vsprintf to vsnprintf change.
12:56:40  <HMage> thank anyway.. if it was caused by DC offset, it would be reproduceable reagardless of what's in background.
12:56:42  <Smoovious> used to have similar problems with mod files
12:57:17  <HMage> Smoovious: better way to get rid of DC offsets is to do very steep highpass at 16hz or so.
12:58:24  <HMage> Buttworth filter is best suited for that
12:58:36  <Eddi|zuHause> gnaa... i updated something and now dvbcut refuses to load :(
12:58:46  <Smoovious> well... if I knew more about the specifics of how it was implemented, I may be more/less helpful... shooting in the dark at the moment
12:59:23  <Darkvater> where is the click?
12:59:28  <HMage> I know, I am trying to help you with mod files right now - filter samples with highpass 16hz, that'll remove the DC offset.
12:59:52  <Smoovious> oh I haven't messed with mod files in years... except for listening to them
13:00:14  <Smoovious> last time I made a mod file, I was using Wow32 to listen to them
13:00:17  <HMage> Darkvater: at 00:01.860 for example
13:00:33  <Darkvater> ah I see
13:00:47  <HMage> then at 00:08.063
13:00:48  <Darkvater> pretty faint though
13:01:03  <HMage> 00:12.074
13:01:13  <Darkvater> unless the openttd mixer does something to it to eliminate these things, I have no idea what it is
13:01:13  <HMage> 00:12.596
13:01:37  * HMage downloads the samples and takes a look
13:01:41  <Darkvater> cause I just read in the data and if it doesn't happen when the sound is played on its own, it's something else
13:01:49  <Darkvater> HMage: do you have the savegame for me?
13:01:55  <HMage> yes
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13:02:41  <HMage>
13:03:48  <HMage> Darkvater: is audio in compressed in some way?
13:04:09  <Darkvater> I think not
13:04:15  <Darkvater> but those files are extracted in there
13:04:19  <Darkvater> courtesy of Tron_
13:04:39  <HMage> 11kHz, unsigned, 8bit, mono, right?
13:04:55  <Darkvater> yes
13:05:16  * HMage loads in raw
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13:07:03  <Darkvater> thank god you can load games even if you don't have the proper grf files
13:08:30  <HMage> hmm.. level crossing sound from the files you gave me is marked as 22050Hz file, rather than 11025 which it should've been.
13:09:52  <Darkvater> it could either be wrong or tron resampled them
13:10:20  <HMage> they're not resampled
13:10:22  <Darkvater> OpenBankFile << this is how the samples are retrieved
13:10:33  <HMage> I know. Samples are ok, under MME they sound fine.
13:11:11  <Darkvater> HMage: yes but remember MME does some magic resampling, of which you said "you are doing a totally wrong resampling"
13:11:40  <HMage> Darkvater: all those files are 11025Hz, only their headers are wrong.
13:12:00  <HMage> so that code never gets executed
13:12:18  <HMage> or, it shouldn't
13:12:28  <Darkvater> what code?
13:12:41  <Darkvater> MME first converts unsigned to signed, then resamples them to 16bit stereo
13:12:49  <HMage> the "totally wrong resampling" one. Maybe tron gave them wrong wav headers, that's all.
13:14:21  <Darkvater> in their rate is 11KHz
13:15:48  <Darkvater> except for SND_10_TRAIN_BREAKDOWN SND_12_EXPLOSION SND_13_BIG_CRASH
13:16:03  <Darkvater> hmm some of the headers in seem just plain wrong
13:17:06  <Darkvater> but they are indeed 11KHz cause when played at 22KHz it doesn't sound good
13:18:37  <HMage> sounds ok when played in sequencer
13:18:50  * HMage uses different audio card now
13:21:01  <HMage> integrated intel audio doesn't click
13:21:41  <HMage> no, it does, but at much fewer rate
13:22:18  * HMage likes his proaudio interfaces, they show problems the instant they occur.
13:22:39  <Darkvater> looks like directsound mixing isn't so good after all
13:23:04  <HMage> it is... at what sample rate do you initialize audio in dsound by default?
13:23:29  <Darkvater> 2channel 16bit 11025Hz
13:23:38  <HMage> try 48000Hz or 44100Hz.
13:24:25  <HMage> and set primary audio buffer's volume to -6dB after init
13:24:42  <Darkvater> HMage: openttd -s dsound:hz=44100
13:24:51  * HMage tries
13:26:06  <Darkvater> ~hmm 44100 also seemed to crackle, although you cannot really tell from a vmware windowsxp where everything lags
13:26:26  <HMage> clicks are still there.
13:26:40  <HMage> let's try it other way around (sets his audiocard's sample rate to 11025)
13:26:47  <Darkvater> brb
13:26:53  <HMage> ok
13:27:20  <HMage> can't. 22050 is the lowest sampling rate supported
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13:35:09  <HMage> Smoovious: correction, the proper name is not 'Buttworth', it's 'Butterworth'.
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14:04:52  <Belugas> hello there
14:05:17  <Belugas> [07:27] <Darkvater> Belugas: what happened to the @file comments in the sound/music/video folders?  <--- not touched yet
14:06:14  <Belugas> doing it slowly, as time permits it
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14:13:34  <Darkvater> HMage: hmm, so no 'solution' or cause found?
14:13:46  <Darkvater> Belugas: he ;)
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14:20:33  <HMage> Darkvater: as for now, only found reference in fmod changelog that lowering software mixing quality in dsound buffers reduced the clicks.
14:21:41  <HMage>, at 21/10/05 4.01.07
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14:23:37  <Darkvater> lowering mixing quality? how does one do that?
14:24:35  <Darkvater> he no source
14:25:57  <HMage> I can only find quality for 3D sound buffers in DirectX9 manual
14:29:01  <HMage> other observations - sound click is exactly one sample long. at 22050 Hz mixing frequency it's more noticeable than at 44100Hz
14:29:16  <HMage> it's done by dsound, but I can't find a cause
14:29:57  <HMage> either openttd needs to do something extra before playing, like setcurrentpos(0), or change some flags somewhere
14:30:02  <Darkvater> hmm, if it's dsound's mixing click then we can't do anything about it
14:30:04  <HMage> probably in primary buffer
14:30:49  <Darkvater> too bad that I can't really test it since these clicks I'm hearing I'm not sure if they're really clicks and/or whether caused by the virtualisation
14:33:08  <Darkvater> hmm could it be...
14:33:13  <Darkvater> hmm no
14:33:24  <HMage> if I change 'sample rate conversion quality' in control panel->sound to 'Good' instead of 'Best' or 'Improved' clicks are gone.
14:33:43  <Darkvater> when I delete a secondary buffer I don't tell it buffer->Stop(), but it's already stopped according to its status
14:33:43  <HMage> but I didn't have any clicks in my game, using the same technique you did.
14:33:56  <Darkvater> which was?
14:34:01  <HMage> Ostrich Runner
14:34:14  <Darkvater> oh like that :)
14:34:42  <HMage> the game vanished from the marked, unfortunately. Probably wrong publisher.
14:34:46  <HMage> from the market*
14:35:43  <Darkvater> hmm perhaps it doesn't like the cooperativelevel?
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14:36:18  <HMage> cooperative level is priority, right? same in ostrich runner
14:36:24  <Darkvater> yes
14:36:38  <HMage> I'll download the ostrich runner demo and check, to be sure.
14:37:06  <HMage> funny I don't have the game now, though I've been deving it :P
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14:38:16  * Darkvater looks at your files again
14:38:50  <Darkvater> hmm if I remember where I put them
14:39:37  <Darkvater> which I don't :s
14:41:53  <Rubidium> Darkvater: my list of to-be-backported patches (without looking at yours) is at
14:46:48  <Rubidium> your list looks ok; it misses 8526 (peter1138 said that that should be backported too)
14:47:13  <Rubidium> and you could (maybe) consider backporting 8793
14:47:46  <Darkvater> comparing...
14:47:53  <Darkvater> you ar emissing quite some fital comits though
14:48:02  <Darkvater> 8738 for example
14:48:47  <Rubidium> yeah, I've added commits at the time I saw them committed and I deemed them necessary, so it is likely that I missed some
14:49:22  <Darkvater> ok we have
14:49:49  <Darkvater> 8526, 8844, 8793, 8648, 8738, 8824, 8825, 8828, 8767/8768, 8685, 8709
14:49:55  <Darkvater> not th same
14:50:34  <Darkvater> 8844 I have, but in a different commit
14:50:40  <Darkvater> donnu if 8526 is needed
14:50:55  <Rubidium> talk to peter1138, he said I should add it to my list
14:54:24  <Rubidium> 8648, 8738, 8824, 8824, 8767, 8768 are ok to me
14:54:37  <Rubidium> 8685 is a new feature, though I haven't got trouble with it
14:54:59  <Rubidium> 8709 uses overloaded functions, so that might be troublesome backporting
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14:55:29  <Rubidium> maybe only backport the fix part of 8709
14:55:36  <Darkvater> 8685: yes, we can discuss whether this feature is worth it. Personally I think it is
14:55:44  <Darkvater> 8709 only the fix part is
14:55:48  <Darkvater> eh too late ;p
14:56:04  <Darkvater> that's why I hate when people mix commits together and don't seperate them
14:57:08  <Darkvater> HMage: still around? I'm interested if you can test something for me
14:57:13  <Darkvater> once openttd compiles
14:57:53  <HMage> I will
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14:58:31  <Rubidium> looks like the 'base' for 8828 isn't in 0.5
14:58:48  <Darkvater> it is
14:59:09  <Darkvater> lemme look it up for you
14:59:42  <Darkvater> r7681
14:59:57  <Darkvater> !openttd commit 7681
15:00:08  <_42_> Commit by Darkvater :: r7681 /branches/0.5/ (station.h station_cmd.c) (2006-12-30 23:35:01 UTC)
15:00:09  <_42_> -Backport from trunk (r7585, r7590, r7599):
15:00:11  <_42_>  - Drastically reduce CheckStationSpreadOut CPU usage which got called way too much by the AI.
15:00:12  <Darkvater> !openttd commit 8828
15:00:17  <_42_> Commit by tron :: r8828 /trunk/src/ (openttd.cpp station_cmd.cpp) (2007-02-21 07:37:31 UTC)
15:00:19  <_42_> -Fix
15:00:21  <_42_> -Regression (r7585): On load calculate the station rectangle for all savegames, not just savegames with at least version 27
15:00:56  <peter1138> hmm
15:01:23  <Rubidium> I can't find that loop in openttd.c
15:01:37  <Darkvater> peter1138: r8526 << backport?
15:02:21  <peter1138> what is it, newstation stubs?
15:02:28  <peter1138> if so, yes
15:02:47  <peter1138> heh, yeah, ;p
15:02:55  <Darkvater> Rubidium: it's in AfterLoadStations
15:03:31  <Darkvater> The requested URL /o/r8525backport.diff was not found on this server.
15:04:17  <peter1138> hm
15:04:21  <peter1138> r8526 ;p
15:06:27  <Darkvater> HMage:
15:12:33  <Rubidium> Darkvater: you list of to-be-backported fixes looks fine to me
15:13:30  <Darkvater> ok good
15:13:32  <Darkvater> thanks
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15:14:23  <Rubidium> I've got some translations for Korean pending (of strings that are in 0.5, but not in trunk anymore when it was translated)
15:15:13  <Darkvater> ah good
15:15:38  <Darkvater> can you give me a link to it in due time? I'll do it with the WT2 translations
15:16:24  <Rubidium> I'm still waiting for replies from Lithuanian and Simplified Chinese. I hope they'll give me the translations in time, because when they do all languages (except Galician and unfinished/*) are fully translated
15:17:09  <Darkvater> he, this is funny. Lots of games recommend to tune down the sound quality in order to get rid of clicks
15:17:12  <Darkvater> hm
15:17:15  <Darkvater> hmm where's HMage
15:17:22  <Darkvater> Rubidium: good
15:18:01  <Rubidium> maybe we want to consider a patch like to keep the number of bug reports due to non-unicode fonts down
15:18:57  <Rubidium> though I'm not entirely happy with the patch as it is (something funky happens with the strings when trains drive behind them)
15:20:21  <Darkvater> what kind of a loop is that?
15:20:57  <Rubidium> it loops through all characters in the translation file
15:21:36  <Darkvater> we have something like that?
15:21:46  <Rubidium> but for some reason the the strings are not in a single table, but multiple tables
15:22:29  <Rubidium> not that I'm aware of
15:23:47  <Darkvater> hmm
15:24:17  <Darkvater> this doesn't work though when you're already using a font ;)
15:24:34  <Rubidium> why not?
15:24:49  <Darkvater> some have substitutes and you get squres
15:24:51  <Darkvater> +a
15:25:42  <Rubidium> but then you use a broken font or is there a way to determine whether it uses those substitute squares?
15:26:00  <Darkvater> no idea
15:26:18  <Darkvater> although one could reason that since you're already using a freetype font you know what you're doing
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15:26:29  <Darkvater> but that won't really help if you get an openttd.cfg from someone
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15:27:59  <Rubidium> yeah, and they could've selected a font that doesn't have the ASCII characters
15:27:59  <Darkvater> that function probably shouldn't belong to strings.cpp I think
15:28:16  <Darkvater> Rubidium: lol
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15:28:38  <Darkvater> Rubidium: like RC4 right? you would get this error message but have no idea what it says since it's in russian ;p
15:28:57  <Rubidium> no, because it is always in english
15:29:22  <Rubidium> unless you have a selected that doesn't know the ASCII characters
15:29:40  <Darkvater> hmm point taken
15:29:59  <Darkvater> but XY might not understand english error message
15:30:08  <glx> <-- I still try to find the good way to restore dead key handling on winXP
15:30:13  <Rubidium> Darkvater: the main problem of moving the function out of strings.cpp is that we need to make _langtab_num and _langtab_start non-static and place them as externs in a header
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15:30:56  <Rubidium> Darkvater: rather not understand the error message than show the error message as ???????
15:31:03  <Darkvater> :)
15:31:16  <Darkvater> glx: that still doesn't give us any dead-key support
15:31:36  <Darkvater> HMage:
15:31:39  <Darkvater> HMage:
15:32:47  <glx> Darkvater: but at least I can type ê or ï
15:33:14  <HMage> Darkvater: what should I look out for?
15:33:38  <Darkvater> HMage: clicks
15:33:42  <HMage> ok
15:33:54  <Darkvater> the first one is based on
15:34:10  <Darkvater> the second one calls primary->SetVolume(600)
15:34:15  <Darkvater> on start
15:35:42  <HMage> ok, though positive dB value will make sounds louder.
15:35:51  <Darkvater> ugh
15:35:52  <Darkvater> he ;p
15:35:57  <Darkvater> it cannot make it louder
15:36:00  <Darkvater> but thanks
15:36:04  <Darkvater> lemme remake that
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15:39:54  <Darkvater> HMage: ok, renewed openttd_2.exe
15:41:08  <HMage> downloading
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15:45:18  <Darkvater> glx: perhaps we should look at a different way of handling key-input on windows? Donnu why but somebody thought going lowerlevel was a good thing. It might be adventageous to let windows handle all the converts, etc.
15:45:38  <glx> using WM_CHAR?
15:47:10  <Darkvater> or WM_UNICHAR
15:47:15  <Darkvater> donnu what tricks that'll cause us though
15:47:59  <HMage> Darkvater: I suppose you wanted unicode, right? then unichar
15:48:18  <HMage> what conversions do you have in mind?
15:48:48  <glx> WM_CHAR is utf16, WM_UNICHAR is utf32
15:49:16  <Darkvater> donnu. deadkeys and the like
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15:51:15  <HMage> openttd.exe - clicks still there
15:51:39  <HMage> openttd_2.exe - also, clicks are there.
15:51:46  <HMage> Try SetCurrentPosition(0) before playing
15:52:02  <Darkvater> glx: your patch does give bad results if you don't type a deadkey
15:52:11  * HMage is tempted to install visual studio 2005
15:52:21  <Darkvater> eg on dutch keyboard: 'x will give me a 'z' with a roof
15:52:43  <glx> ok so I try to use WM_CHAR or WM_UNICHAR
15:53:38  <Darkvater> HMage: ok, doing _3.exe
15:53:46  <Darkvater> it just takes a fucking long time :s
15:56:12  <Darkvater> glx: although it could also be the case because we hardcode the buff (&w) of size 1
15:56:30  <glx> hmm possible yes
15:57:01  <Darkvater> HMage: ok _3.exe
15:57:08  <glx> but ToUnicode wants a buffer and ToAscii wants a LPDWORD
15:58:11  <Darkvater> funny comment though
15:58:12  <Darkvater> 			// this is the rewritten ascii input function
15:58:12  <Darkvater> 			// it disables windows deadkey handling --> more linux like :D
15:58:22  <Darkvater> looks like a TrueLight commit
15:59:17  <glx> hehe with WM_CHAR IME works :)
15:59:26  <glx> I can enter chinese
15:59:34  <glx> but greek is broken
15:59:43  <Darkvater> without composition window?
15:59:54  <glx> it opens a default composition window
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16:00:07  <glx> (in a weird place)
16:00:07  <Darkvater> :O
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16:00:22  <Darkvater> I needed a whole IME_ framework for that with WM_KEYDOWN
16:04:29  <Darkvater> +		w1	0x0012f644 "Žx"	wchar_t [5]
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16:25:04  <Darkvater> glx: of course you could do some special magic with WM_KEYDOWN if WM_CHAR doesn't work out, but we have to see
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16:51:52  <Guest8112> hi all
16:52:31  <Guest8112> were do I need to be when I want to submit my own server, to the serverlist @
16:52:35  <Guest8112> were = where
16:52:49  <hylje> when creating the server, use the "advertise" option
16:53:06  <Guest8112> is this possible from command line too?
16:55:09  <Eddi|zuHause> it's probably a .cfg option
16:57:07  <Guest8112> ah found it, thanks!
16:57:23  <Guest8112> I should have seen that, while editing the cfg file earlier
16:57:38  <hylje> oh and please, don't irc as root
16:59:27  <Guest8112> ok sorry, didn't think of that
17:00:04  <Guest8112> I don't use irc much actually
17:00:16  <hylje> if someone tricks you or exploits your client to do a rm -rf /, you're somewhat screwed
17:00:30  <Guest8112> first time from a command line on irc
17:00:37  <Guest8112> thanks for the tip
17:00:52  <hylje> you should also run ottd as an user, if you don't already
17:01:07  <Guest8112> but how can you notice I logged in as root?
17:01:11  <Eddi|zuHause> "a user"
17:01:15  <hylje> ident defaults to current user account
17:01:22  <Guest8112> I'll check that, thouht so
17:01:23  <hylje> in your case it states 'root'
17:01:46  <Guest8112> k thanks
17:01:58  <DaleStan> Isn't ident such great fun?
17:02:05  <Guest8112> i'm off, thanks!
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17:13:58  <Wolf01> hello
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17:41:18  <Wolf01> bye
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18:25:19  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Darkvater * r8861 /branches/0.5/newgrf.c:
18:25:19  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [0.5] -Backport from trunk (r8526, r8792, r8825, r8843):
18:25:19  <CIA-1> OpenTTD:  - Add stubs for unsupported newgrf station properties (r8526)
18:25:19  <CIA-1> OpenTTD:  - Be more strict about grf-string input (r8792, r8825)
18:25:19  <CIA-1> OpenTTD:  - Fix an off-by-one error in GRFComment (r8843)
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18:40:49  <peter1138> i need
18:40:56  <peter1138> 5 firkins of ale
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18:43:58  <peter1138> hmm, 360 pints
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18:55:12  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r8862 /trunk/src/ (19 files):
18:55:12  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Cleanup: doxygen changes, again. Mostly @files missing tags and a few comments style.
18:55:12  <CIA-1> OpenTTD:  Some documentation addition, when i can easily supply them
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18:59:12  <peter1138> any broken comments this time? :)
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19:08:55  <Belugas> no, peter1138, i used Rubidium's compiler ;)
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19:18:51  <Digitalfox> So, how is newhouses decision of merging it like it is?? Or it was decided that changes are needed?
19:19:13  <Digitalfox> The last discussion i watch was like 1 week ago..
19:27:36  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r8863 /trunk/src/newgrf_engine.cpp: -Fix: prefix engine_custom_sprites with _
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19:38:30  <Tuzlo> is there any way you can increase the # of truck stations?
19:38:53  <peter1138> total, or per station?
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19:39:33  <Tuzlo> well I got a bunch in a row, but cant add no more
19:39:50  <Tuzlo> does that have something to do with station spread?
19:40:17  <Tuzlo> nope, thats not the problem
19:40:28  <Tuzlo> peter1138 how about both
19:42:37  <peter1138> well total is not limited
19:42:51  <peter1138> unless you have tons
19:43:29  <Tuzlo> I have 40
19:43:30  <Belugas> Digitalfox : still on hold, as new alternatives are been investigated
19:43:59  <peter1138> er, yeah, the limit is 64000
19:44:27  <peter1138> if you're compiling from trunk, edit station.h:47
19:44:32  <Tuzlo> ok, then do I have too many attached together?
19:45:15  <Digitalfox> Belugas: Ok :)
19:47:01  <Tuzlo> peter1138 im not compiling, I was wondering if it can be changed in the patches
19:48:09  <peter1138> no
19:48:25  <Tuzlo> so whats limiting me right now?
19:48:28  <Ailure> hehe
19:48:38  <Ailure> I love null :)
19:48:48  <Ailure> it's kinda amusing go through message history
19:48:55  <Ailure> and see messages concerning stuff that is deleted
19:48:56  <Tuzlo> seems to be the # I can have attached together
19:49:11  <Ailure> at least it dosen't crash... unlike orginal TT did sometimes.
19:49:55  <peter1138> Tuzlo: yes, 16
19:50:51  <Tuzlo> yup thats the number
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20:09:18  <lolman> Ello all :)
20:09:36  <Ailure> You seem to be a quite happy man :
20:09:37  <Ailure> hello
20:09:38  <Ailure> :P
20:09:49  <lolman> Indeed I am
20:11:19  <hylje> what
20:15:49  <Sacro|Mobile> oh noes
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20:23:52  <lolman> Indeed
20:24:01  * lolman knows he was 8 minutes out
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20:51:15  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: KUDr * r8864 /trunk/src/ (helpers.hpp rail.h rail_cmd.cpp town_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: make ClrBitT(), SetBitT() and ToggleBitT more like CLRBIT() and so on (modify value of the first parameter instead or returning the result)
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21:04:01  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r8865 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Codechange: (NewGRF) Ignore 1 byte action 0s during safety check
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21:13:08  <Mortomes> Hello
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21:29:53  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: KUDr * r8866 /trunk/src/ (helpers.hpp yapf/yapf_costrail.hpp): -Doc: added more comments to template struct MakeEnumPropsT
21:30:41  <Sacro|Mobile> lolman: where abouts in the country are you?
21:32:00  <Bjarni> at home, I presume
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21:33:48  <Sacro|Mobile> Bjarni: ha ha
21:36:03  <Bjarni> and his home is in.... Leeds (I think)
21:36:46  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: KUDr * r8867 /trunk/src/ (helpers.hpp yapf/yapf_costrail.hpp): -Fix(r8866): revert yapf_costrail.hpp commited by mistake, helpers.hpp had wrong line ending
21:37:28  <Sacro|Mobile> Bjarni: yes, i thought so
21:37:33  * Sacro|Mobile could go see him
21:37:57  <Bjarni> oh wait
21:38:04  <Bjarni> he is in York
21:38:09  <Bjarni> or London
21:38:20  <Bjarni> anywhere but Leeds
21:38:29  <Bjarni> at least if you want to go find him
21:38:55  <Sacro|Mobile> i know he is somewhere between York and Leeds
21:39:02  <Sacro|Mobile> near the A64
21:40:44  <peter1138> bloody thing
21:44:47  <lolman> I moved ;-)
21:47:47  <Sacro|Mobile> lolman: yeah, i remember
21:49:29  <lolman> Am now in Leeds
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21:52:10  <Sacro|Mobile> ooh, the big city
21:52:25  <lolman> Not really, I never leave the house :P
21:52:27  <Bjarni> told you
21:52:40  <Bjarni> he is at home in Leeds
21:52:54  <Sacro|Mobile> and Bjarni is at home in NetherLandia
21:53:00  <lolman> lma
21:53:02  <lolman> lmao too
21:53:05  <lolman> Damn VNC :OP
21:53:06  <hylje> twisting nether
21:53:09  <Mortomes> Good old NetherLandia :)
21:53:29  <glx> Sacro|Mobile will be kicked again :)
21:53:31  * Sacro|Mobile wonders about quoting uncyclopedia again
21:54:34  <lolman> Sacro|Mobile: bad idea
21:55:26  <Sacro|Mobile> i was only saying Hello
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21:55:30  <Sacro|Mobile> and asking where the toilet was
21:55:45  <lolman> And asking to do stuff in said toilet
21:55:53  <Bjarni> you also said what you wanted to do in the toilet
21:57:30  <Sacro|Mobile> well how was i supposed to know that
21:57:50  <Bjarni> one word: uncyclopedia
21:58:02  <Bjarni> also knowing the languages could help
21:58:19  <lolman> Bjarni: this is the guy that thought Dutch was Danish...
21:58:32  <Sacro|Mobile> IT IS
21:58:49  <Bjarni> reminds me of a classmate of mine. He had a visit from France and then he said something in French to her and she looked at him and said "you have no idea what you just said, right?"
21:59:26  <Sacro|Mobile> voilez vous couchez avec moi
21:59:45  <Bjarni> turned out that he said he wanted to do some perverted stuff with her
21:59:47  <Bjarni> while he thought he complimented her
21:59:49  <Bjarni> a French talking friend of him got beaten up afterwards
21:59:50  <Sacro|Mobile> hehe
21:59:56  <Sacro|Mobile> ma grandmere est flombeur
22:00:19  <Bjarni> <lolman>	Bjarni: this is the guy that thought Dutch was Danish... <-- well, to his defence: so far I figured out all the Dutch stuff he copy pasted into this channel
22:00:32  <Sacro|Mobile> SEE
22:00:42  <Sacro|Mobile> Bjarni: you are dutch/danish/netherlandian/
22:00:52  <Bjarni> except the stuff that turned out to be perverted
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22:01:08  <lolman> Bjarni: Doesn't make the mistake any less bad ;-)
22:01:16  <Bjarni> 	<Sacro|Mobile>	Bjarni: you are dutch/danish/netherlandian/ <-- actually I know stuff including languages
22:01:30  <glx> <Sacro|Mobile> ma grandmere est flombeur <-- parse error
22:01:40  <Sacro|Mobile> glx: i stopped doing french in 200
22:01:41  <Sacro|Mobile> err...
22:01:43  <Sacro|Mobile> 2000
22:01:53  <Sacro|Mobile> passed though, got a C
22:02:00  <lolman> 200? Damn you're old...thought you'd said you were 19...
22:02:11  <glx> too late lolman
22:02:16  <Sacro|Mobile> i was 19
22:02:19  <Sacro|Mobile> 3 years ago
22:02:31  <lolman> Hmm, I must have lost 3 years somewhere
22:03:05  <Sacro|Mobile> im 23 in 5 months and 3 days
22:03:59  * lolman wonders who was 19...
22:04:21  * Sacro|Mobile shrugs
22:04:35  * lolman realises he was being bloody stupid
22:04:51  <Sacro|Mobile> hehe
22:05:20  <hylje> bloody hell
22:05:22  <Sacro|Mobile> that train isnt the right way up
22:08:52  * lolman goes and plays some Supreme Commander
22:09:33  <Sacro|Mobile> oooOOOooo
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22:12:28  <lolman> Very good game, btw
22:13:02  <Sacro|Mobile> so where does Holland fit in with Dutch/Danish/Netherlandiish
22:14:20  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r8868 /trunk/src/roadveh_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r8715): road vehicles could not overtake anymore in some directions (mart3p).
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22:19:49  <peter1138> nini
22:20:54  <Belugas> bye peter1138
22:20:56  <Belugas> bya all!
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23:01:21  * Sacro eats The
23:01:28  <Sacro> fail'd :(
23:05:02  <ThePizzaKing> hehehe
23:08:35  <Sacro> no fair
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