Log for #openttd on 18th April 2007:
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00:01:29  *** GoneWacko [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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00:03:48  <TheJosh> Hey'
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00:33:31  <TheJosh> If anyone is interested, my Patch is now in flyspray
00:41:14  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: belugas * r9665 /trunk/src/ (11 files in 3 dirs): -Documentation: Doxygen corrections,errors, corrections of corrections...
01:00:24  <TheJosh> ??
01:05:20  <TheJosh> CIA-2 ??
01:05:56  <Digitalfox[Home]> Something like a bot that shows svn changelog
01:06:50  <TheJosh> bung! my svn is already old...
01:06:55  <TheJosh> and that was 2 hours ago
01:10:01  <TheJosh> meh im off
01:10:08  <TheJosh> gee I hope my patch gets approval
01:10:56  <TheJosh> when it does ill start another one, i have a cool idea for one: raised railways
01:11:14  <TheJosh> like those monorails they have in some contries that are above the roads
01:11:20  <TheJosh> anyway im off
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07:22:57  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9666 /trunk/src/smallmap_gui.cpp: -Fix (r9651): end of data / column flags were reversed
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08:57:50  <TheJosh> Hey
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09:02:15  <TheJosh> Hey who should I talk to to try and get a patch included into the nightly trunk?
09:02:59  <Triffid_Hunter> TheJosh: I'd find the bugtracker and submit your patch
09:02:59  <ln-> No one.
09:03:39  <Sacro|Laptop> i have a strange feeling of deja vu
09:03:43  <ln-> It won't get included. Just enjoy it yourself.
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09:04:04  <peter1138> ln-, please kindly shut the fuck up
09:04:26  <ln-> peter1138: Sorry for being realistic.
09:04:46  <TheJosh> Sacro: What time is it there? i thought i would try again
09:05:06  <TheJosh> everyone was asleep last time...
09:05:31  <Sacro|Laptop> its 10:10 here
09:06:21  <TheJosh> when are the most devels on?
09:06:43  <TheJosh> or should i just wait a while?
09:06:56  <Celestar> what patch are we talking about?
09:07:04  <Sacro|Laptop> :o zomg a Celestar
09:07:15  <TheJosh> the cities patch
09:07:54  <TheJosh> makes some of the towns larger when you generate a new game. you can choose how many 'cities' you want, and how much larger they should be
09:08:03  <Celestar> TheJosh: contact Maedhros, he's doing some work on cities, city sizes and city growth at the moment.
09:08:29  <Celestar> he's not online atm but he might be later
09:08:33  * Celestar goes back to work
09:08:51  <ln-> that patch wouldn't even pass the standard pseudo-Tron filter.
09:08:55  <TheJosh> is he already making a cities patch
09:09:04  <TheJosh> pseudo-Tron?
09:09:07  <Celestar> TheJosh: dunno how much he has done
09:09:37  <TheJosh> In-: Thankyou for your encouragement
09:09:44  <ln-> indenting with spaces, etc.
09:10:16  <ln-> TheJosh: don't take it personally. and if things turn out to be easier than i predicted, you can be happy then.
09:10:57  <TheJosh> anyway, i have to have tea now
09:11:01  <TheJosh> i will be back
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09:25:11  <TheJosh> back
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09:44:12  <Maedhros> morning
09:44:15  <TheJosh> hey
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09:52:27  <Maedhros> hmm, bug 738 is interesting
09:52:52  <Maedhros> it happens because IsVehicleOnBridge only checks at the height of the bridge
09:53:08  <Maedhros> and EnsureNoVehicleOnGround only checks the ground level
09:53:30  <Maedhros> but while a vehicle is on a sloping bridgehead it's not on the ground or at the height of the bridge :)
09:55:21  <peter1138> heh
09:55:34  <peter1138> is that one of the ones belugas changed? :)
09:59:15  <Maedhros> yeah
09:59:19  <Maedhros> so it's in -RC3 too ;)
09:59:57  <peter1138> uh oh
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10:03:34  <TheJosh> hi
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10:17:49  <Smoky555> hi all
10:18:30  <TrueBrain> hi TheJosh and Smoky555
10:19:44  <Smoky555> i'm crazy, what's wrong? i get 9653 from svn, compile it in MS VS2005 without errors, make 2 folders with it, from first folder i run dedicated server, from another one i run client to connect to localhost and get an error "desync error" :(
10:21:17  <peter1138> uh, cool?
10:23:24  <Smoky555> server and client running without any newgrf files :(
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10:29:09  <DNazarov> 0.5.1-RC3 - works without errors
10:29:56  <peter1138> there's at least one known bug :/
10:30:00  *** DNazarov is now known as Smoky555
10:31:40  <Smoky555> and .... ?
10:33:55  <Maedhros> bug 738 applies to -RC3 as well as trunk :(
10:41:31  <HMage> Smoky555: disable autorenew for server and client, as well as in running game via "patch autorenew 0" in dedicated server console.
10:41:35  <HMage> it's a well known bug
10:42:16  <peter1138> that shouldn't cause desyncs
10:42:36  <HMage> I had those 8 hours ago on r9640
10:42:59  <HMage> after disabling autorenew it didn't desync.
10:43:11  <HMage> tho it's probably not the cause. the server was restarted too.
10:44:39  <HMage> Smoky555: can you please provide the config file and steps you do to reproduce that desync?
10:45:39  <Smoky555> "atorenew false" - in both configs. config files are default, generating with first run
10:46:05  <HMage> does it happen on nightly builds built from the same revision?
10:46:39  <HMage> try placing nightly builds into those 2 folders
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10:50:51  <Smoky555> nightly builds (precompiled win32) works fine ...
10:51:09  * HMage fires up msvc2005.
10:51:14  <HMage> What revision you're trying to build?
10:51:21  <Smoky555> 9653
10:53:24  <HMage> hold on
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11:01:03  <peter1138> gaaaa
11:01:09  <peter1138> my computer's on a go slow :(
11:01:13  <peter1138> at least putty is full-speed ahead
11:01:17  <Celestar> peter1138: didn't you want to buy a new one?
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11:04:04  <Celestar> @openttd 738
11:04:36  *** Osai is now known as Osai^away
11:05:02  <peter1138> Celestar: this is my work pc
11:05:09  <peter1138> } catch (System.Threading.ThreadAbortException) {
11:05:09  <peter1138> 			throw;
11:05:10  <peter1138> 		}
11:05:13  <peter1138> why did i do that?
11:05:25  <peter1138> hmm, i guess i had other code there at one point...
11:11:52  <HMage> Smoky555: sorry for the delay. Does the desync happen on a new game or on a saved game? I've just built from scratch via msvc2005 and started dedicated, no desyncs.
11:15:40  <Smoky555> HMage : 9655 works fine. you can take my src-pack (trunk9653 with same patches) from
11:16:31  <peter1138> ...
11:19:57  <HMage> Smoky555: you have a daylength patch there applied. Did you try compiling without daylength patch?
11:20:35  <peter1138> ah, so it's patched 9653? :p
11:20:52  <HMage> there's also signal autocomplete patch. Try building without any patches, just clean trunk r9653
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11:22:51  <HMage> most likely the daylength patch is the cause. Since I don't remember that that patch was updated less than a few months ago.
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11:24:02  <peter1138> # HEATWAVE
11:24:43  <HMage> btw, peter1138, how about extending name_array to hold more than 30 bytes of data per line?
11:24:55  <HMage> err, 32*
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11:25:46  <peter1138> _name_array needs to go :)
11:25:54  <HMage> away you mean? :)
11:26:01  <peter1138> yes
11:26:20  <HMage> how about a temporary fix, because it's unbearable to have only 13 letters for russian per sign.
11:26:32  <HMage> some words won't even fit
11:27:47  <HMage> like, "??????????????"
11:27:50  <Smoky555> HMage : i have this patch, peter1138 is a author ...
11:28:34  <HMage> Smoky555: try removing all patches, just clean trunk r9653. Build from that and see if you have any desyncs.
11:28:59  <HMage> peter1138: daylength is your patch?
11:29:14  <peter1138> no
11:29:50  <Smoky555> peter1138 : yes :)
11:30:23  <HMage> Unfortunately I have to go, I'll be back at around 16:00 GMT.
11:31:13  <HMage> Smoky555: daylength patch was written by Sacro.
11:31:41  <HMage> Smoky555:
11:32:07  <Smoky555> grrr....  i speak about long russian names, not daylength
11:34:03  <peter1138> heh
11:36:11  <HMage> Smoky555: Ah. anyway, that code you sent me compiles and desyncs. Revert into clean trunk and see if you have any desyncs.
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12:15:28  <Sacro|Laptop> oh noes, a lolman
12:17:00  <lolman> lies :o
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12:21:54  <Sacro|Laptop> :o an Ammler
12:22:05  <Ammler> ?
12:22:55  <lolman> Woah never realised Beryl was running so well :o
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12:36:55  <TheJosh> :)
12:40:38  <roboman> (:
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13:07:36  <Belugas> Maedhros, peter1138: about 738, i did not ported my fix in 0.5, so it must be something else
13:07:50  <peter1138> someone else did, i think
13:07:57  <Belugas> ha... could be
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13:09:59  <peter1138> r9584 | truelight | 2007-04-10 10:57:35 +0100 (Tue, 10 Apr 2007) | 5 lines
13:09:59  <peter1138> [0.5] -Backport frmo trunk (r9542, r9565, r9573):
13:09:59  <peter1138> - Fix: when checking for no vehicle on ground-tiles, don't take into account vehicles that are in the air (r9542)
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13:12:15  <Belugas> well...
13:12:26  <Belugas> another bug on my list then :(
13:12:44  <ln-> TheJosh: success?
13:12:45  <Belugas> i'm getting worse then bjarni :S
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13:13:46  <Belugas> shit!
13:14:06  <Belugas> i forgot my SD card at home :(
13:14:18  <Belugas> no work to be done today
13:14:20  * Belugas cires
13:14:24  <Belugas> cries...
13:14:28  <Belugas> time for COFFEE!!
13:14:35  <peter1138> get putty?
13:15:34  <Belugas> too much to learn in a simgle day :P
13:15:45  <Belugas> i should instead concentrate on work@work...
13:15:57  <Belugas> not been really productive lately ^_^
13:19:38  <peter1138> feh!
13:28:23  <TheJosh> ln-: There may be success, I am talking with Maedhros...a commit is on the horison
13:31:52  <TheJosh> i think he has done more work on this then me though...
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13:41:08  <Belugas> when the patch is good, when it adds something usefull, generally, there is an interest.
13:41:40  <Belugas> when it's a fantazy not taking into account the rest of the game,  don't expect it to be in
13:42:20  <TheJosh> yeah
13:43:03  <Belugas> for those who are frantically looking for patch suggestions, may i suggest to look at this ?
13:43:30  <Belugas> those are undocumented stuff, or stuff that is not doxygen compliant
13:43:48  <Belugas> lots of work that is (almost) garanteed to be commit!
13:44:19  <TheJosh> patches that simply document existing features, etc?
13:45:16  <Belugas> yup
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13:45:46  <Belugas> i've been working on clearing the list for a while
13:45:53  <TheJosh> i have an idea for my next patch, what is your opinion. I call it 'Raised monorails' (although I will try to code generic)
13:45:56  <Belugas> but there is so much stuff to put in...
13:46:20  <TheJosh> basically monorails (or other rail types) that can go above roads, etc, for use in cities
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13:48:46  <Belugas> would be tricky, i think... it will basically be like bridges
13:49:06  <TheJosh> I dont quite know how to do them yet...
13:49:14  <TheJosh> or if it would work
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13:53:03  <Belugas> the idea is not bad in itself.  just that technically, it would be hard to implement.  not to mention the fact that you will have in fact 2 monorails : ground and aerial ones
13:53:06  <Belugas> if i may say so
13:53:29  <Belugas> would involves map changes, new graphics,etc...
13:53:39  <Belugas> but go ahaed.  who knows :)
13:53:42  <Sacro|Laptop> hwo do you do a backtrace from a segfault?
13:54:26  <Eddi|zuHause3> use a debug build, and run that from gdb
13:55:03  <Sacro|Laptop> hmm, a debug build
13:55:06  <Sacro|Laptop> how to create that...
13:56:04  <TheJosh> Belugas: I was going to make it just the same rail, but with a flag that tells it to draw a bit higher or something...
13:56:11  <TheJosh> still working that bit out
13:56:38  <Eddi|zuHause3> TheJosh: you'll also need ramps and stuff
13:56:46  <Belugas> so it will look like floating??
13:56:54  <Belugas> you'd need poles, at least
13:56:59  <TheJosh> yeah that as well
13:57:03  <TheJosh> and ramps
13:57:17  <peter1138> bridges
13:57:26  <peter1138> basically like locomotion :P
13:57:32  <Belugas> indeed, that's waht i've said
13:57:56  <Belugas> well.. not the locomotion part but...
13:57:59  <Sacro|Laptop> peter1138: i have a memory location, in SDL.lib
14:02:06  <TheJosh> do not worry Belugas, i will probably give up on raised monorails sometime soon anyway.
14:02:34  <TheJosh> i just thought it would be a cool idea, especially in large, hard-to-get-station-into cities
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14:03:30  <Belugas> i don't deny the coolness of the idea
14:03:46  <Belugas> just that the realisation would be... hard
14:03:48  <Belugas> to say the least
14:03:56  <TheJosh> yes, i agree
14:04:21  <TheJosh> just then i was playing with gui, and its annoying and messy, even to do somehting simple like add a single button
14:11:21  <TheJosh> so Belugas, what do you work on the most?
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14:11:53  <Belugas> newindustries, doxygen stuff, making bugs...
14:12:00  <Belugas> and work@work too!
14:12:11  <TheJosh> cool
14:13:01  <TheJosh> im good at that last one.
14:16:00  <TheJosh> is the openttd devel team looking for someone to reopen MiniIN?
14:16:16  <TheJosh> perhaps with a slightly different structure?
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14:19:23  <Belugas> TheJosh : no, not really.
14:20:13  <TheJosh> it wasnt working?
14:21:43  <Belugas> (most) users did not care of maintiaining their own patch, instable, confusing regular users as been a lab test for devs (which was never be the case), etc etc...
14:21:56  <Belugas> really hard to debug,
14:22:05  <Belugas> and... no
14:23:05  <hylje> ottd totally needs a functionality plugin system :P
14:23:10  <TheJosh> so where did all those patches we loved go?
14:23:33  <Eddi|zuHause3> hylje: you mean like newgrf? :p
14:23:34  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: maedhros * r9667 /trunk/src/ (9 files in 2 dirs):
14:23:34  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Feature: Add the concept of cities. A (configurable) proportion of towns can
14:23:34  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: start off larger, and will grow twice as quickly as other towns. They can also
14:23:34  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: be placed specifically in the scenario editor. Thanks to TheJosh for the
14:23:34  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: initial patch and the idea.
14:23:46  <hylje> Eddi|zuHause3: newgrf for code
14:23:54  <TheJosh> like i really really liked in MiniIN the advanced ordering
14:24:01  <rane_> why is it that you cannot change currency to euro during the game?
14:24:04  <rane_> i find it wird
14:24:05  <rane_> +e
14:24:37  <Eddi|zuHause3> miniin had some nice patches, but it was impossible to keep them up to date
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14:25:58  <TheJosh> I will have to find some of my favourites, and bring them up or something
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14:26:55  <Belugas> rane_, it is possible to, if you write a grf file to change it yourself.  otherwise, there is already a conversion system going on.
14:27:04  <Belugas> it just follows the rules....
14:27:12  <Belugas> look in currency.cpp
14:27:15  <Belugas> or something...
14:27:41  <Belugas> TheJosh, i can't tell you about the faith of those miniIN patches
14:28:43  <TheJosh> the faith of a patch? huh?
14:29:15  <peter1138> yeah, christian, muslim, catholic...
14:29:25  * blathijs ventures Belugas meant fate, not faith :-)
14:29:36  <Belugas> oups...
14:29:39  <Belugas> yup
14:29:51  <Belugas> thanks for translating  my mind :D
14:30:33  <TheJosh> there were a few patches that made re-downloading the entire thing, everytime you want to play on the net worthwile
14:32:08  <TheJosh> oh well
14:32:58  <TheJosh> anyway, my patch (not really, better said my idea) is done, and Im off to bed. Thansk again maedhros for all your work, its pure brilliance!
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14:39:23  <peter1138> a happy customer
14:40:47  <Maedhros> indeed :)
14:42:50  <Belugas> NEXT!
14:43:36  <peter1138> i need guinea pigs to test this cb36 patch
14:44:05  <Eddi|zuHause3> what is a cb36?
14:44:06  * Maedhros raises a hand
14:44:19  <peter1138> callback 36, used to modify some properties on the fly
14:44:24  <peter1138>
14:44:43  <Maedhros> what can i use it with? ukrs?
14:44:49  <peter1138> (missing bit is either saving or reloading cached var on game load)
14:44:51  <peter1138> av8
14:45:04  <peter1138> ukrs uses it too, but i don't remember any visible effect, heh
14:45:22  <peter1138> in av8 it affects speeds
14:45:38  <Maedhros> ooh, nice
14:47:01  <Ailure> hmm
14:47:07  <Ailure> I wonder where I should post a bug report next time
14:47:08  <Ailure> :)
14:47:26  <Ailure> Probably the locomotion forums
14:47:28  <Ailure> they look nice
14:47:31  <peter1138> yes, that'll do
14:48:22  <Ailure> I wish I knew what went through me xD
14:48:35  <Ailure> I used the flyspray tracker before, but instead I thought "durrr let's harass the GRF author"
14:48:53  <Eddi|zuHause3> i vote for alcohol :)
14:49:06  <valhallasw> I vote for asperin
14:49:17  <hylje> shrooms
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14:50:18  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause3: i'll whatever ale is on...
14:50:46  <SpComb> Logs:
14:50:46  <Kittysune> !logs
14:51:08  <Kittysune> I blame caffeine
14:51:08  <Kittysune> ;P
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14:52:23  <Ailure> stupid network
14:52:30  <hylje> :o
14:52:33  <peter1138> oh, it's you
14:52:48  <Ailure> How are you gentlemen!
14:52:51  <peter1138> so does anyone else want a go at the planespeed option?
14:53:30  <Ailure> the current nightlies have the equilant of planespeed 4x on ttdpatch currently?
14:53:36  <Ailure> At least that's the impression I got.
14:53:37  <peter1138> not really
14:53:39  <Ailure> hmm
14:53:46  <peter1138> they're four times faster
14:54:02  <peter1138> but it's done differently to how ttdpatch does it
14:54:08  <Ailure> ah
14:54:22  <hylje> ie. our planes go at 1:1 speed by default? ;p
14:54:24  <Ailure> thing is that I managed to get ride of my TTD binaries with TTDpatch and all when I moved to my new computer
14:54:29  <Ailure> So I can't really check
14:54:55  <Ailure> (ironically I somehow managed to transfer the TTO backup I had)
14:55:14  <Eddi|zuHause3> hm, looks like i do not even have av8...
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14:56:56  <Ailure> hmm
14:58:22  <Eddi|zuHause3> how do i set up a central newgrf directory that is used by all openttd versions i have?
14:58:37  <Maedhros> symlinks
14:58:40  <hylje> symlinks!
14:59:09  <Ailure>
14:59:24  <Ailure> If you happen to be a windows user :p
14:59:35  <Ailure> Not many who knows that it's possible on NTFS
14:59:36  <Ailure> but it is
14:59:53  <Eddi|zuHause3> i am not... and i do
15:00:03  <Ailure> heh
15:00:18  <Ailure> but I suspect symlink is there to live up to some NIX standard or something
15:00:23  <Ailure> and it's not implented very well or somethng
15:00:29  <Eddi|zuHause3> but wasn't the newgrf system supposed to do that without symlinking?
15:00:53  <Maedhros> peter1138: heh, the planes in the intro screen are barely moving at all with your patch
15:01:10  <Ailure> [newgrf]
15:01:10  <Ailure> L:\Program\openTTD\OTTD-win32-nightly_build\data\pb_viaduct.grf
15:01:10  <Ailure> L:\Program\openTTD\OTTD-win32-nightly_build\data\pb_av8w.grf
15:01:10  <Ailure> L:\Program\openTTD\OTTD-win32-nightly_build\data\basic_platformsw.grf
15:01:16  <peter1138> indeed
15:01:16  <Ailure> well
15:01:23  <peter1138> because it doesn't update the cached values on load
15:01:25  <Ailure> you can just write the full file path now
15:01:29  <Maedhros> ah, i see
15:01:42  <peter1138> Ailure: but the gui doesn't let you do that
15:01:59  <Ailure> Is it really that hard to like
15:02:02  <Ailure> do it on one GUI
15:02:03  <peter1138> (cos the gui was written to understand a single data/...)
15:02:05  <Ailure> then copy it over for the rest?
15:02:18  <peter1138> no
15:02:44  <peter1138> you're better off using symlinks
15:02:44  <Ailure> reminds me I should clean up my data folders now
15:02:50  <Ailure> heh
15:02:52  <Ailure> well
15:02:57  <peter1138> because it won't find them for network games either
15:03:05  <peter1138> or even any games. hmm.
15:03:14  <Ailure> I have five diffrent openTTD folders xD
15:03:24  <Ailure> each one with almost same GRF's, but copied over the folders
15:03:32  <Ailure> hmm
15:03:42  <Ailure> thing is that windows can be confused with some NTFS features
15:04:05  <Ailure> saw a hilarious screenshot
15:04:11  <peter1138> well, at some point in the future i think you may be able to specify a single directory to use
15:04:17  <Ailure> where it reported something like 1 TB used of 30 GB
15:04:18  <peter1138> which'll do what you want
15:04:23  <Ailure> it was just a file being linked over and over again
15:04:34  <peter1138> heh
15:04:36  <Ailure> well that does make sense though
15:05:12  <Ailure> and the custom GRF's get's hard to differ from 'core' ones
15:05:22  <Ailure> ...unless oTTD also looks for newGRFS in subfolders
15:05:35  <hylje> :o
15:06:53  <Eddi|zuHause3> it always looked into subfolders
15:07:09  <Eddi|zuHause3> i always had them in data/newgrf
15:07:31  <hylje> does ottd break if i symlink into /?
15:07:39  <hylje> or to ../ ?
15:07:53  <Ailure> hmm
15:07:55  <Ailure> I see then
15:07:56  <Eddi|zuHause3> i have no idea :)
15:08:03  <Rubidium> hylje: yes
15:08:08  <Rubidium> once it is out of memory
15:08:09  <Ailure> guess that's a excuse to clean my newGRF files
15:08:10  <Ailure> and sort them
15:08:23  <hylje> i suppose
15:08:33  <hylje> it's not a given to check for recursion
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15:13:13  <DaleStan> Is there even any portable way to check a whether a FS recurses?
15:16:00  <ln-> what's a(n) FS?
15:16:40  <hylje> file system
15:16:53  <ln-> are you sure?
15:16:57  <hylje> rather
15:17:07  <hylje> considering the context
15:17:25  <ln-> context = the irc channel for a computer strategy game
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15:17:54  <hylje> at the moment context involves recursion on symlinking to a parent directory
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15:18:30  <Maedhros> ln-: that's more the location of the discussion than the context
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15:25:55  <eJoJ> Hmmm, I can't start my ottd, it's output is "Error: Cannot open file 'data/srgw.grf'" what could be wrong?
15:26:29  <Maedhros> wrong file permissions?
15:28:00  <eJoJ> Same error with root
15:28:05  <peter1138> clear out the [newgrf] section in the config, probably
15:28:51  <eJoJ> nothing stated under [newgrf] in the config
15:29:28  <peter1138> hmm, newgrf-static? clutching at straws...
15:30:21  <eJoJ> static is also blank
15:31:25  <Belugas> <s>rgw.grf?
15:32:43  <eJoJ> srssgw.grf
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15:49:42  <Digitalfox> Hi :)
15:50:22  <Digitalfox> Hello peter1138
15:50:51  <Digitalfox> Are you thinking of supporting "action 5, feature 0x12: aqueducs. " ?
15:50:55  <peter1138> no
15:51:17  <Digitalfox> no ? :\
15:51:29  <Digitalfox> You don't like this feature?
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16:22:33  <Belugas> i am bored
16:22:42  <Belugas> to the point of boredom
16:22:51  <Digitalfox> hi belugas :)
16:22:55  <Prof_Frink> Do something then.
16:22:55  <Digitalfox> bored?
16:22:59  <Digitalfox> Play open
16:23:00  <Belugas> hello DaleStan
16:23:06  <Belugas> shit...
16:23:12  <Belugas> hello Digitalfox
16:23:16  <Digitalfox> lol ;)
16:23:17  <Belugas> sorry DaleStan
16:23:31  <Digitalfox> No work today?
16:23:47  <Belugas> Prof_Frink, i cant do any ottd stuff.  Forgot my sd card at home :(
16:23:54  <Belugas> it has everything for ottd on it
16:24:18  <Digitalfox> oh no... One mora day for newindustries :(
16:24:21  <Eddi|zuHause3> i take it your work work is very boring?
16:24:33  <Belugas> yup.
16:25:01  <Belugas> i have to schematize and analyse in full detail how the sku entry goes in our point of sales app.
16:25:03  <Prof_Frink> Belugas: This is why you should do all development in vim in a screen session on a remote server
16:25:04  <Belugas> really boring
16:25:20  <Belugas> maybe...
16:25:33  <Belugas> too much stuff to learn on a single day :P
16:26:03  <Prof_Frink> Vim is easy. :wq
16:26:17  <Belugas> plus, i'm working on WinXP.  Means habits to change
16:26:21  <Prof_Frink> Screen is easy. C-a d
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16:57:38  <Wolf01> hello
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17:28:27  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: miham * r9668 /trunk/src/lang/ (catalan.txt french.txt hungarian.txt korean.txt swedish.txt):
17:28:27  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-04-18 19:27:38
17:28:27  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: catalan - 2 fixed by arnaullv (2)
17:28:27  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: french - 2 fixed, 2 changed by glx (4)
17:28:27  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: hungarian - 2 fixed by miham (2)
17:28:28  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: korean - 2 fixed by darkttd (2)
17:28:28  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: swedish - 2 fixed, 1 changed by daishan (3)
17:29:28  * Wolf01 nods
17:29:34  <hylje> :3
17:29:55  <Wolf01> i'm really bored :/
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17:51:00  <peter1138> har har
17:51:11  <peter1138> no idea why
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17:58:41  <dihedral> hello all
17:58:46  <Wolf01> hi
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18:00:39  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: belugas * r9669 /trunk/src/ (10 files in 2 dirs): -Documentation: some more doxygen fixes
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18:03:46  <Wolf01> i want to improve ships, anybody want to help?
18:04:12  <dihedral> i give you ideas and you code - or were you thinking of something else? :-P
18:04:29  *** McHawk [] has joined #openttd
18:04:34  <Eddi|zuHause3> improve what? usability? complexity? pathfinder optimisation?
18:04:46  <dihedral> cpu load
18:04:53  <ln-> mobility on land?
18:04:53  <Wolf01> i have the ideas, i can code, i can't do it without knowledge
18:05:00  <Wolf01> maybe
18:05:07  <Wolf01> (hovercrafts)
18:05:18  <dihedral> what kind of 'knowledge'
18:05:23  <dihedral> are you looking for
18:05:37  <Eddi|zuHause3> you might want to start with the water bridges
18:05:54  <Wolf01> something more difficult than a "for" or "if" statement
18:06:07  <Eddi|zuHause3> i don't like the idea of hovercrafts
18:06:18  <peter1138> hovercraft!
18:06:40  <Eddi|zuHause3> stupid language
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18:13:08  <dihedral> i am familiar with coding, just not c
18:15:34  <dihedral> my packet just fell off the network stack
18:15:37  <Eddi|zuHause3> i am familiar with theory, just not with coding
18:16:29  <dihedral> feed us with some ideas Wolf01
18:16:53  <Wolf01> the first is "one ship per tile"
18:17:13  <Rubidium> that's going to be very nasty in canals/locks
18:17:19  <Wolf01> the second is "realistic locks"
18:17:30  <Wolf01> the third "better pathfinding"
18:17:46  <hylje> pathfinding that works at all
18:17:49  <dihedral> what you thinking off for "realistic locks"
18:17:59  <hylje> slow turning?
18:18:06  <Wolf01> maybe
18:18:25  <Wolf01> avoid 90 degrees turns sure
18:18:27  <dihedral> looking at the size of a ship and that of a cannal: no turning?
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18:20:25  <Wolf01> Rubidium, if you plan to build a single tile narrow canal for double ways ship traffic you are wrong... you should think canals like track tiles, i think you don't use a single track for double way traffic and without signals
18:20:35  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r9670 /trunk/src/ (station_map.cpp tunnel_map.cpp unmovable_map.h void_map.h): -Documentation: add documentation to some the _map files.
18:20:38  * Wolf01 should have dinner
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18:20:53  <dihedral> hehehe
18:20:58  <dihedral> Rubidium: quite true
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18:21:46  <Eddi|zuHause3> Wolf01|AWAY: but you have no way of forcing directions on water tile, like you can on track tiles with signals
18:21:54  <hylje> yet
18:21:58  <Eddi|zuHause3> so you can end up with 4 ships
18:22:03  <Eddi|zuHause3> -> <-
18:22:03  <Eddi|zuHause3> -> <-
18:22:09  <Eddi|zuHause3> blocking each other
18:22:10  <hylje> canals might need signals
18:23:13  <dihedral> yes
18:23:38  <dihedral> how about a tool to draw a water route
18:23:53  <dihedral> which would work like rail tracks, just not visible to other players
18:23:56  <hylje> and make water routes like railroad
18:23:58  <hylje> brilliant
18:24:37  <Rubidium> Wolf01|AWAY: well, in the NL they do run trains on single track without signals...
18:26:03  <Rubidium> (something with maintainance some 4 weeks ago went horribly wrong and the signalling still doesn't work on that piece of track)
18:28:35  <Rubidium> (oh, I shouldn't forget to tell that the maintainance was planned to take 2 days)
18:29:48  <dihedral> btw guys, had a little odd situation today on one of the game servers
18:30:05  *** Wolf01|AWAY is now known as Wolf01
18:30:20  <dihedral> one town
18:30:25  <dihedral> 2 facktories
18:30:29  <dihedral> with the exact same name
18:30:41  <dihedral> 2 players delivering to one factory each
18:30:54  <dihedral> but only one factory was showing the iron and the goods
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18:31:12  <dihedral> sorry - the steal
18:31:15  <dihedral> and the goods
18:32:48  <Wolf01> [20:24:04] <hylje> and make water routes like railroad
18:32:48  <Wolf01> i was thinking about using buoys and draw a thick line to show where the ship will travel, not the exact path, but neither the bird fly path
18:33:41  <hylje> :o
18:33:54  <Wolf01> locks should have signals, maybe you can place signals on them like on the tracks
18:34:21  <Wolf01> and if you use 2 tiles wide canals you don't have problems with ships
18:34:57  <Wolf01> i offten use 2 locks and 2 buoys to tell which lock a ship should take
18:35:03  <hylje> :o
18:35:22  <Wolf01> and the most important thing: rename buoys!!!!!
18:35:22  <Eddi|zuHause3> Wolf01: like i already said, you have no means to prevent 2 ships from driving next to each other
18:35:37  <hylje> sea signals
18:35:42  <hylje> buoys
18:35:56  <Wolf01> yes, but if you have enough room it is not a big problem
18:35:56  <dihedral> afk
18:36:40  <Wolf01> is like when some newbies try to use 4 trains with a single track line with only double ways signals
18:36:53  <Wolf01> they will get stuck
18:37:10  <Wolf01> you have to transpose this think to ships
18:37:43  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9671 /trunk/src/ (9 files): -Codechange: Implement NewGRF callback 36, which allows changing of various properties which were previously static. Vehicle max speed and train power/te/running costs are adjustable.
18:37:54  <hylje> while you're at it, do the same for road vehicles
18:38:07  <hylje> one-way roads plz
18:38:37  <Wolf01> yes, this was another point i wanted to improve
18:39:04  <Wolf01> but when i asked for help i got no response and so i left
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18:39:20  <hylje> but do the boats first
18:39:30  <hylje> boats are way more useless than RVs
18:39:50  <peter1138> i had a patch somewhere to implement multistop for ships
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18:40:41  <hylje> i think the most elegant way to do waterways is to have buoy-connected straight paths, also diagonal
18:40:57  <hylje> the buoys could be double-way or one-way as signals are
18:42:25  <Wolf01> Frostregen once did more docks per station when i was working with him at the distant join patch, but we never tried if it really worked
18:55:40  <Eddi|zuHause3> how about this: place buoys in between tiles, and reserve two paths between them, one on the right and one on the left
18:56:23  <Eddi|zuHause3> this would also mean, ships will not go "over" the buoys anymore, but actually pass them
18:58:13  <peter1138> has to be turn on and offable, heh
18:58:13  <hylje> ships would become ridiculously small then
18:58:53  <Eddi|zuHause3> hylje: what? there was no change in ships in there...
18:59:04  <Eddi|zuHause3> ships would still be 1 tile wide
18:59:06  <hylje> ah
18:59:07  <hylje> in between
18:59:22  <hylje> that could work
18:59:55  <hylje> if you mean the buoys would mark waterways much like railroad
19:01:17  <Eddi|zuHause3> well, i read the intention of Wolf01 as follows: buoys mark the end points of waterway segments, and the paths inbetween are fixed (automatically) as a more or less straight line
19:01:41  <hylje> yes
19:01:50  <hylje> i'd not make it too intelligent
19:01:50  <Eddi|zuHause3> ship pathfinding would then reduce to buoy hopping
19:01:58  <hylje> and make it just mark straight lines
19:02:49  <Eddi|zuHause3> well, "straight" is not a very good concept in tile based space
19:04:14  <Eddi|zuHause3> you could say something like "max. 2 45° turns"
19:05:08  <Eddi|zuHause3> max. 1 should be easier
19:05:21  <hylje> perhaps
19:05:40  <Eddi|zuHause3> but that might cause problems on canals/rivers with a lot of corners
19:06:13  <hylje> people could be expected to put down more buoys there
19:07:06  <Eddi|zuHause3> yes, but people putting buoys on every 2nd tile could kinda defeat the purpose of simplifying things
19:07:18  <hylje> thats their choice
19:07:24  <Wolf01> docks might be handled like tracks with all track segments in one tile
19:07:28  <Wolf01> *canals
19:07:42  <Wolf01> s/docks/canals
19:07:43  <Eddi|zuHause3> Wolf01: i believe renaming buoys is just a matter of correctly handling buoy owners
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19:14:26  <Wolf01> hello MeusH
19:14:27  <MeusH> heyahello
19:14:49  <MeusH> hey Wolf01, have you made some new patches? :)
19:15:21  <Wolf01> i'm crying here and poking some people to get an help for my next work :)
19:15:51  <MeusH> what kind of work?
19:16:04  <Wolf01> i'm planning to improve a bit the ships
19:16:09  <MeusH> wow, that's great
19:16:17  <MeusH> do you have some more details somewherre?
19:16:41  <Wolf01> you can read the logs, all i've thought is all here :D
19:16:42  <MeusH> well, you could help me a bit - to describe newest features. could you?
19:17:15  <Wolf01> i'll try :)
19:18:26  <MeusH> seems there are new types of towns, called Cities
19:18:29  <MeusH> is that right?
19:18:46  <MeusH> for example here:
19:18:47  <MeusH> Proportion of towns that will become cities
19:19:02  <MeusH> what the difference between cities and towns?
19:19:09  <hylje> cities grow faster
19:19:14  <Wolf01> yep
19:20:55  <MeusH> thanks
19:21:05  <MeusH> brb
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19:37:00  <Wolf01> i got the idea to improve the ships from here :P
19:37:17  <Wolf01> and i was thinking some others improvements
19:38:08  <Wolf01> i think the reserved path in front of a ship is not difficult to code, but i think also that it will use more cpu
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20:01:10  <MeusH> Wolf01, regarding towns and cities: does "Town growth speed:" mean that towns do grow, and cities do not (or their growth is not under control)?
20:01:54  <Wolf01> both should grow
20:02:03  <Wolf01> but cities more quickly
20:04:21  <MeusH> hmm
20:04:28  <MeusH> well, I don't really get it :(
20:04:56  <MeusH> the patch allows player to change groth rate of cities/town/villages/whatever you call it, right?
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20:05:25  <MeusH> and the other thing is adding a "city" that has different parameters than "town"?
20:07:48  <hylje> some grf maker should make a ship with a rowing excavator
20:08:11  <hylje> (ref:
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20:13:28  <MeusH> haha that owns :D
20:14:17  <hylje> do it! :D
20:15:23  <Eddi|zuHause3> MeusH: "cities" always grow twice as fast as "towns"
20:15:53  <MeusH> aha, thank you :)
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20:32:14  <MeusH> are cities going to be somehow marked to be distinguished from casual towns, soon?
20:32:51  <eJoJ> Is it no ways to seperate them ingame now?
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20:33:55  <MeusH> dobry wieczór Sacro :)
20:35:03  <Sacro> MeusH: eh?
20:35:15  <MeusH> good evening dude :)
20:37:07  <Sacro> evening MeusH
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21:02:16  <Belugas> bye bye
21:02:41  <Digitalfox[Home]> bye
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21:15:57  <Sacro> ZOMG
21:16:00  <Sacro> USER PATCH MERGING?
21:16:08  <peter1138> lies
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21:19:33  <MeusH> bye
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21:22:23  <eJoJ> Why does the fast speed option run at variable speed?
21:25:23  <Eddi|zuHause3> fast forward goes as fast as your CPU can handle
21:25:33  <Eddi|zuHause3> if there is more to calculate, it is going slower
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21:26:08  <ln-> does it even do a sched_yield() ever?
21:26:58  <Wolf01> night
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21:27:18  <eJoJ> Eddi|zuHause3 is it a command to make a dedicated server go in fast mode?
21:27:39  <Eddi|zuHause3> i do not think it is possible in multiplayer
21:28:33  <Eddi|zuHause3> because it is impossible to synchronise
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21:44:14  <peter1138> not so
21:44:29  <peter1138> the server provides the 'clock' in multiplayer mode
21:46:22  <peter1138> somehow :p
21:53:14  <peter1138> i can't see how now
21:53:18  <peter1138> ne'r mind
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22:01:27  <Rubidium> it's just that every client has to run (much) faster than the server, otherwise they will never catch up when joining
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22:10:40  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r9672 /trunk/src/ (62 files in 9 dirs): -Cleanup: lots of coding style fixes around operands.
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22:41:56  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r9673 /trunk/src/ (21 files in 2 dirs): -Cleanup: remove spaces before tabs and replace non-indenting tabs with spaces.
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23:11:34  <Sacro> oh noes
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