Log for #openttd on 19th April 2007:
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00:16:22  <SpComb> Logs:
00:16:22  <Sacro> !logs
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01:34:05  <UndernotBuilder> so for when we will have a openttd:// syntax?
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02:21:51  <Belugas> stange comment, UndernotBuilder
02:22:02  <Belugas> too bad you're not there to explain that a little bit :S
02:26:46  <roboman> Ive heard of people talk about having openttd use a openttd:/ syntax for mp. dunno why. maybe to allow anyone to write a program that could easily join an mp game
02:29:32  <Belugas> i still don't kow whta that's mean :(
02:29:45  <Belugas> what is a openttd:/ sintax??
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02:40:04  <eJoJ> It means like a hyperlink, you press f.eks openttd:// and it automaticly launches the game and connect to the server
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02:47:49  <Belugas> ho
02:47:53  <Belugas> mmh
02:48:02  <Belugas> and it's so vital??
02:48:18  <Belugas> seems like a bit laziness to me :S
02:49:57  <Belugas> anyway...
02:50:14  <Belugas> i hope he can find someone to give him a patch for that
02:50:23  <Belugas> as for me, going to snore
02:50:26  <Belugas> bye
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08:39:52  <Smoky555> hi all
08:40:07  <hnsn> hello fellow ottd player
08:41:17  <Smoky555> where i could place scr files? such as on_server_connect.scr ...
08:42:57  <Rubidium> scripts/ I guess
08:43:50  <Smoky555> but ... if i change script before server starting, i need to restart server or not?
08:44:41  <Rubidium> don't know
08:47:04  <boekabart_> Someone who knows the map array better than I do: I saw suggested in the forum (3 years ago), a type of tunnel that wouldn't start on a hill edge, but on flat land going down on the start-tile. Bridges have this flexibility (to start either on flat land going up, or on sloped land staying level), why not tunnels. Really that hard? Doesn't sound that way....
08:48:30  <peter1138> Smoky555: no
08:48:35  <peter1138> Smoky555: it's read whenever it's used
08:48:41  <peter1138> so you can change it mid-game
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08:49:55  <Rubidium> boekabart_: it ain't much a problem of the map array, but rather fixing the graphics and pathfinder code
08:50:18  <Smoky555> peter1138 : ok, i make on_client.scr in scripts folder, i add 'say "Hello" ' into it. thats mean, that with new client server must say to all "Hello", isn't it?
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08:51:01  <peter1138> on_server_connect.scr does that
08:51:12  <boekabart_> Rubidium: how would it be any different for the pathfinder?
08:51:42  <peter1138> on_client is used by the client when it connects (and is fairly useless)
08:51:50  <Rubidium> because of the up/down penalties
08:51:52  <Smoky555> peter1138: yep, it's work, thanks :)
08:51:58  <boekabart_> for gfx, could be an IF (if land flat, take 'dug tunnel' gfx, if not, take 'old' gfx), for path finder no diff.
08:52:06  <boekabart_> train height code, same if as ^^
08:52:38  <boekabart_> up/down: right. Anyway, doesn't sound like anything that is impossible in the current map array, right?
08:53:22  <boekabart_> biggest advantage would be to be able to tunnel under sea, and slightly shorter tunnel entrance footprint
08:53:39  <Rubidium> no, but you need to fix 3 pathfinders and 2 vehicle controllers (I think)
08:53:59  <peter1138> amend
08:54:08  <peter1138> adding features isn't fixing :)
08:54:14  <boekabart_> :)
08:54:29  <boekabart_> so i'd need to featurize 3 pathfinders?
08:54:42  <Rubidium> I think so
08:54:51  <Rubidium> maybe even 4...
08:54:51  <boekabart_> and of course the building UI
08:56:03  <peter1138> coming up with a decent UI is hard
08:56:21  <boekabart_> idea: copy from bridge ui?
08:56:45  <boekabart_> tunnel is now a limited version of bridge, idea is to make it 'same' . if you know what i mean
08:57:08  <peter1138> yes
09:00:02  <boekabart_> as in: you know, or as in: i think that's feasable
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09:15:14  <peter1138> as in, that's feasible
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09:32:21  <Smoky555> huh, does anybody doing something with transparenting in trunk? 9653,9655 from trunk, 9655 nightly,9673 from trunk - transparenting doesn't working (for houses and trees). configs generating with first run. local dedicated server, localclient connected.
09:32:35  <Smoky555>  running local game - transparenting - doesn't working too ...
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09:36:34  <Smoky555> all stable releases works fine with transparent ...
09:39:19  <peter1138> what in particular doesn't work?
09:39:45  <peter1138> oh, i get it.
09:39:51  <peter1138> press x and it behaves like it did
09:40:14  <peter1138> or use the transparency toolbar off the map menu
09:40:52  <peter1138> changes != broken :p
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09:42:32  <Smoky555> ok, i see, thanks ... :)
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09:44:31  <peter1138> actually i will change it so the menu option toggles all
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09:44:36  <peter1138> (the same as X)
09:46:23  <peter1138> otherwise there is only the short cut key to do that
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10:01:12  <peter1138> might do the job...
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10:06:57  <TheJosh> Hey, what code-wise are the devels wanting the most?
10:12:31  <TheJosh> documentation basically?
10:13:41  <ln-> teleporting trains.
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10:16:32  <peter1138> heh
10:16:46  <peter1138> make vehicles warp from one side of the map to the other
10:16:59  <peter1138> to emulate a 'spherical' world...
10:17:12  <peter1138> though it would be a doughnut...
10:17:23  <ln-> btw, ludde himself mentioned teleporting
10:17:33  <peter1138> yes, but he was shot down
10:23:02  <peter1138> that was for emulating bendy tunnels
10:23:16  <peter1138> but 'real' tunnels are deemed better
10:24:28  <TheJosh> so ditch this documentation then?
10:24:43  <TheJosh> we could just have the map scroll onto itself
10:24:46  <peter1138> ditch which?
10:24:55  <TheJosh> i am adding documentation tags to functions
10:25:13  <peter1138> well, i was jesting about the warp...
10:25:32  <TheJosh> ah ok
10:26:46  <peter1138> iirc farms used to be able to plant fields on the opposite side of the map, if they were near the edge
10:27:00  <ln-> has the ear ring bug been fixed yet?
10:27:17  <peter1138> no, nobody cares about faces
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10:28:03  <peter1138> especially not the 'females'
10:31:27  <ln-> i know one dev who could care about the 'males' being bi.
10:33:40  <TheJosh> Hey In-, did you hear my patch got in?
10:34:49  <peter1138> ln-, yes, bjarni... he seems to have an obsession with that sort of thing...
10:35:27  <ln-> TheJosh: hey th3j0sh, i didn't. congrats.
10:35:54  <ln-> TheJosh: also, please switch to another font in your irc client/terminal.
10:37:07  <TheJosh> Thanks. it was all Maedhros really.
10:37:38  <TheJosh> What is wrong with my font? this irc client is mega simple, does not support multiple fonts
10:37:51  <ln-> you don't see the difference of l and I.
10:38:03  <ln-> and probably not 1 and l and I.
10:39:30  <TheJosh> actually i can see 1 from i and |
10:39:34  <TheJosh> and I
10:39:41  <TheJosh> what is your name
10:40:13  <TheJosh> sorry
10:43:28  <peter1138> ln-, short for 'Lord kNowitall'
10:44:14  <ln-> ok, admiral.
10:46:13  <TheJosh> ln as in the linux command for link?
10:49:49  <TheJosh> shutting up now
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10:59:49  <TheJosh> Ok i cant help talking, meh, i have just made a documentation patch, does anyone want it?
11:00:09  <TheJosh> i was told yesterday they are useful or something
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11:16:21  <Eddi|zuHause2> talk to belugas, he is doing documentation stuff..
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11:19:47  * peter1138 gruarghs at C#
11:20:09  <peter1138> "Control cannot fall through from one case label to another" indeed :/
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11:45:49  <TheJosh> Hey is there a function I can use to display a message on the screen or something for debugging purposes?
11:46:09  <TheJosh> like a messagebox style thingo, or a console message
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11:49:12  <peter1138> debug("foo", "message with formatting %d", 42);
11:49:37  <peter1138> generally i abbreviate the function name in the first parameter, though it's freetext...
11:52:54  <TheJosh> what is the 42?
11:53:01  <TheJosh> the universe, life and everything?
11:53:05  <peter1138> example parameter ;p
11:53:12  <peter1138> for the %d
11:53:14  <TheJosh> ah ok
11:53:27  <peter1138> it's like a printf, but with an extra parameter at the start
11:53:35  <peter1138> and no need for \n at the end
11:54:05  <TheJosh> i get an error: debug is not declared in this scope
11:54:12  <peter1138> hmmz
11:54:18  <peter1138> #include "debug.h" at the top?
11:54:38  <TheJosh> is now
11:57:04  <TheJosh> ok heres a tougher one: how do you use the function SetObjectToPlace from a popup menu item
11:59:12  <TheJosh> it sortof works: i take a copy of the window handle in the proc function, and use it later, show thingo but doesnt call my proc function when the user clicks
11:59:33  <peter1138> uh
11:59:38  <peter1138> pass :)
12:00:03  <TheJosh> let me guess, you hate GUI code too?
12:00:32  <peter1138> :)
12:03:25  <TheJosh> does that debug launch a window or go to the console?
12:04:42  <TheJosh> nvm
12:05:18  <peter1138> console :)
12:08:06  <TheJosh> im trying to code 'fund a town' ive got to the point where it says 'cannot put a town here'...
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12:15:38  <TheJosh> w00t...i founded a town!
12:18:07  <TheJosh> how do you change the current players money
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12:22:38  <hnsn> hello also
12:22:41  <hnsn> Ctrl + Alt + C
12:22:43  <TheJosh> hello
12:23:28  <TheJosh> no i am talking from a code perspective. I found a function to subtract, now I need a check function, because it made my bank balence -50million...
12:24:47  <TheJosh> while towns should be expensive, it should report 'you are broke' rather than just make you bankrupt...
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12:52:28  <Thomas[NL]> are there any train-tunnel-grf's for OTTD?
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13:04:42  <Belugas> hello
13:05:20  <Belugas> TheJosh : yes, documentation patches are more then welcome :)
13:05:30  <Belugas> show me da stufff!
13:07:02  <Thomas[NL]>
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13:09:23  <TheJosh> My doc patch is currently part of another patch I created called 'fund a town', but ill remove those bits and give you just the doc bits
13:12:38  <TheJosh> Belugas: do you want the doc patch?
13:13:06  <Belugas> of course :)
13:19:02  <peter1138>   * This obviously only works in the scenario editor. Function not removed
13:19:02  <peter1138>   * as it might be possible in the future to fund your own town :)
13:19:03  <peter1138> lol
13:19:44  <TheJosh> thats what im supporing in a patch i just amde
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13:20:42  <peter1138> yes, i know
13:21:11  <TheJosh> good point
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13:29:05  <maddy> hiho
13:29:17  <maddy> Brianetta: can you reset the server pls? :D
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13:57:25  <Belugas> !seen Maedhros
13:57:27  <_42_> Belugas, Maedhros ( was last seen quitting #openttd 21 hours 50 minutes ago (18.04. 16:06) stating "Ping timeout: 480 seconds" after spending 6 hours 23 minutes there.
13:57:40  <Belugas> 21 hours!!!!
13:57:50  <Belugas> tht's awfully long time!
14:06:46  <peter1138> hmmz
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14:26:13  <Maedhros> hi
14:28:31  <peter1138> ah ha!
14:28:35  <peter1138> the man himself
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14:30:09  <Belugas> hello Maedhros :)
14:30:23  <Belugas> how doyou DARE been away for 21 hours ???
14:30:26  <Belugas> shame on you ;)
14:30:55  <peter1138> 22 actually
14:31:08  <Belugas> time flies...
14:31:23  <Maedhros> hehe, i'm sorry!
14:32:12  <Maedhros> although it's exam season again, so you probably shouldn't expect to see me much until early June
14:33:35  <Belugas> you're excused :)
14:33:43  <Belugas> real life is the best excuse ;)
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14:43:49  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: celestar * r9674 /branches/gamebalance/ (102 files in 7 dirs): [gamebalance] -Sync: r9322:9420 from trunk
14:48:29  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: celestar * r9675 /branches/gamebalance/ (35 files in 8 dirs): [gamebalance] -Sync: r9420:9520 from trunk
14:50:08  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: belugas * r9676 /trunk/src/ (industry.h industry_cmd.cpp):
14:50:08  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Codechange: introduce NUM_INDUSTRYTYPES instead of IT_END.
14:50:08  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: This makes the code clearer.
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15:09:55  <Belugas> whooo... no conflicts :D
15:14:57  <SpComb> sync? Merge?
15:15:20  <Belugas> nope... work :)
15:18:13  * peter1138 conflicts with working in the summer
15:18:52  <SpComb> move to antarctica
15:18:58  <SpComb> it's a fun place to be
15:19:08  <SpComb> depending on where you go
15:20:03  <Belugas> peter1138, there is an empty chair by my side :)
15:20:15  <Belugas> you're more then welcome to fill it
15:20:21  <Belugas> it's cool in here ;)
15:22:19  <peter1138> :D
15:22:29  <peter1138> if i could work from home...
15:22:33  <peter1138> i could have my aircon pointing at me...
15:22:43  <peter1138> and no clothes :x
15:23:04  <SpComb> oo ya
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15:29:56  <Belugas> i pass!
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15:31:36  <Thomas[NL]> what terrain grf's is he using :S?
15:32:57  <peter1138> japan landscape, iirc
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15:40:10  <SpComb> peter1138: move to finland, it's a pleasant +4°C outside right now
15:40:59  <Belugas> samo in Quebec
15:41:09  <SpComb> although it was a rather warm 28°C on the 15th
15:41:23  <SpComb> that was probably measured in the (light of the) sun, though
15:41:39  <Belugas> never reached that this year.  LAst time it was that hot was in last summer :S
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15:48:28  <peter1138> WHO! HAR! WHAT IS IT GOOD FOR
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15:50:02  <MeusH> hey
15:51:17  <peter1138> MEUSH
15:51:29  <MeusH> yo homie
15:51:34  <MeusH> I see nice progress :)
15:51:37  <peter1138> yo homo :p
15:51:52  <MeusH> not nice
15:52:01  <peter1138> what isn't?
15:52:16  <MeusH> random
15:52:22  <MeusH> whatever
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15:52:50  <Belugas> pertinent...
15:53:02  <peter1138> pert tits?
15:53:20  <Belugas> nice work on tropics, MeusH,by the way
15:53:35  <MeusH> thanks, I'm drawing sprites right now :)
15:53:49  <MeusH> if you have any suggestions please go on :)
15:54:45  <Belugas> nope...
15:54:46  <Belugas> sorry
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15:55:05  <Belugas> don't want to influence The Artist
15:55:32  <MeusH> influence me :)
15:55:35  <MeusH> please :D
15:55:44  * peter1138 feeds MeusH something alcoholic
15:55:48  <peter1138> now you are under the influence
15:55:53  <MeusH> yeeea
15:55:54  <MeusH> more!
15:56:25  <MeusH> I'm having problems with pipes on oil station... That's one big spaghetti :)
15:56:39  <MeusH> but more alcohol will untie the spaghetti
15:56:40  <MeusH> or whatever
15:56:43  <peter1138> GAH
15:56:52  <peter1138> sometimes my browser locks up :(
15:57:00  <peter1138> but it happens with opera, firefox and IE...
15:57:22  <MeusH> it happens for me when there is something related to Java or Flash (firefox)
15:57:23  <Ailure> It happens with msnmgr, explorer.exe and firefox here too
15:57:35  <peter1138> MeusH: i'm only on our wiki though...
15:57:37  <Ailure> well it's usually related to slashdot for some reason
15:57:43  <peter1138> i think i need a reinstall
15:57:46  <MeusH> hmm
15:57:47  <peter1138> or some linux, heh
15:57:51  <peter1138> but i need vs 2005 ;/
15:57:55  <MeusH> oh yeah peter1138 do you know what's up with MiHaMiX?
15:58:01  <Ailure> ok i'm unable to revive explorer.exe
15:58:15  <Ailure> it goes 50% CPU all the time, without starting. :/
15:58:16  <peter1138> no, what's up with MiHaMiX?
15:58:32  <peter1138> Ailure, heh, my control panel makes it do that
15:58:48  <Ailure> ok now it revived
15:58:51  <Ailure> sometimes it helps to like
15:59:00  <Ailure> termite, start, terminate, start, terminate
15:59:02  <Ailure> repeat
15:59:09  <Ailure> until it finally starts
15:59:34  <MeusH> peter1138, could you take a look at ?
15:59:43  <MeusH> MiHaMiX is kinda gone and he doesn't respond
15:59:59  <peter1138> hmm?
16:00:20  <MeusH> they want to have something like Scenario:Pagename
16:00:21  <peter1138> Scenario: seems ok
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16:00:25  <peter1138> or not?
16:00:29  <MeusH> yeah
16:00:34  <MeusH> but someone has to do it
16:00:39  <peter1138> hmm
16:00:41  <peter1138> but
16:00:42  <MeusH> to find it in the code and modify it
16:00:50  <Ailure> you need to change the code for that?
16:00:55  <peter1138> would Category Scenario not work? heh
16:01:08  <peter1138> all the links in the wiki/html code, i guess
16:01:18  <Ailure> that's how it's done on most wikis too I belive
16:01:25  <Ailure> unless i'm misunderstanding what they want
16:01:35  <MeusH> it's pretty simple
16:01:39  <MeusH> wait a sec
16:02:07  <MeusH>
16:02:08  <MeusH> this
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16:02:32  <peter1138> well, i got rid of most of GFXDev:
16:02:43  <peter1138> but mainly because two of the pages in it were redundant
16:02:51  <peter1138> and *lots* of stuff that should be in it isn't
16:03:15  <peter1138> hmm, so you have to edit them there too? that's lame ;p
16:03:38  <Ailure> aaah
16:03:42  <MeusH> peter1138, that's the only place where it should be edited, I think
16:04:03  <peter1138> MeusH: well, what i mean is, that you *have* to edit it at all
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16:04:19  <peter1138> i assumed just having the Foo: thing in the name would make it do the right thing o_O
16:04:32  <MeusH> you mean no nice user interface, right?
16:04:34  <MeusH> aha
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16:17:02  <Belugas> oups... lunch time started without me :S
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16:19:30  <Thomas[NL]> what is this Peter1138/Towngrowth Challenge, will it be some game-mode?
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16:23:59  <peter1138> possibly
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16:24:20  <peter1138> based on korenn's old OCS version
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16:24:50  <Ailure> ah
16:24:59  <Ailure> I thought it was another name for offspin challange
16:25:14  <Ailure> (to be honest I forgot the name of the author of offspin challange :P and I never tried the 'OCS')
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16:28:16  <peter1138> openttd challenge spinoff
16:28:17  <peter1138> or
16:28:23  <peter1138> openttd spinoff challenge
16:28:24  <peter1138> or something
16:28:49  <peter1138> but basically, with newgrf cargos, industries, houses, etc, a lot of the changes can be done with a grf file
16:29:10  <Ailure> yeah
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16:29:41  <Wolf01> hello
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16:30:13  <Ailure> I seen the progress with newCargos
16:30:18  <Ailure> and the bugs coming with them :p
16:30:32  <Ailure> such as a temperate sawmill acting like the tropical one
16:30:45  <Ailure> eh that probably wasn't related to newcargos
16:30:48  <Ailure> but still ;)
16:31:10  <Ailure> A friend of mine thought it was a new feature
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16:31:55  <Thomas[NL]> yea it happened  to me :), suddenly there was a big square grassland in the forest :P
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16:32:44  <Ailure> haha yeah
16:32:50  <Ailure> it probably would been intresting near endgame
16:32:59  <Ailure> considering how endgame in TTD
16:33:04  <Ailure> is with forests being everywhere
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16:33:25  <Ailure> there would be holes of trees all over the map
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16:35:25  <peter1138> yeah, nothing to do with newcargos that :p
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16:36:59  <Wolf01> i thought it was fixed by Belugas
16:37:02  <Ailure> although I think the temperate forests feels kinda stupid
16:37:26  <Wolf01> yeah, they are always the same... boring
16:37:39  <Ailure> It feels like a unatural 'squarish' forest
16:37:41  <Ailure> too
16:37:55  <Belugas> i fixed it
16:37:55  <Wolf01> what about industries on slopes?
16:37:57  <Belugas> i think
16:38:17  <Ailure> industries on slopes looks nice :)
16:38:20  <Wolf01> ttdpatch has them for a long time
16:38:29  <Ailure> but I wonder if they could have problems with the terragenesis generator
16:38:30  <Ailure> yeah I saw them
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16:39:23  <Wolf01> why? they are always the same, only they can be built on slopes and the graphics will change to look better
16:39:51  <Ailure> I mean
16:39:52  <Ailure> heh
16:39:54  <Ailure>
16:40:05  <Ailure> look at the end of that page with the industry going up three tiles of slope
16:40:15  <Ailure> a smooth terragenesis map might not have many of thoose slopes
16:40:19  <Ailure> if any at all
16:40:48  <Wolf01> you can always terraform a slope when placing the industry
16:41:01  <Ailure> hmm
16:41:04  <Ailure> rough have a few of them though
16:41:08  <Ailure> and very roguh should have a few
16:41:10  <Ailure> and true
16:41:17  <Ailure> but I was mainly concerned with randomly placed ones
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16:41:48  <Wolf01> now if the terragenesis want to place a forest in a rough area it terraform it, i've seen it with my eyes
16:42:20  <Ailure> hmm
16:42:28  <Ailure> I seen some automatic terraforming with industry placement
16:42:50  <Ailure> sometimes bit unecessary as I seen it when I place industry and it flattens a area that the industry dosen't even build on
16:43:00  <Wolf01> i saw also the castle for tourist cargo, i like the idea to place things on particular terrain configurations
16:43:36  <Ailure> Kinda funny how it's a industry too :p
16:43:43  <Ailure> Sure, there's a such thing as tourist industry
16:43:46  <Ailure> but still
16:47:05  <Wolf01> what about the ship improvement we talked about yesterday?
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16:52:03  <sai> hello guys, I just try to make a friend like openttd, but he can't start it, because of the error "too many sprites". I read something about "onloading the grf-stuff", but how to do that? environment is windows... any help?
16:54:25  <Wolf01> which triassic version is he using?
16:55:19  <sai> what is triassic?
16:55:37  <sai> it is probably the recent open ttd rc-3
16:55:41  <Belugas> synonim for dinosaur-age version :)
16:55:49  <Wolf01> when dinosaurs ruled the world :P
16:55:58  <glx> he probably tries to load unneeded grfs
16:56:26  <sai> so is it enough to just delete some from the folder where he put some grf-files?
16:56:34  <glx> I mean grfs that do not work in 0.5.x
16:56:48  <sai> so he should delete all grf-files?
16:56:59  <Wolf01> not all
16:57:01  <Belugas> sai, maybe he cold try the nightlies
16:57:04  <glx> what grfs does he use now?
16:57:08  <sai> 1sec
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16:57:18  <Ailure> I wouldn't recomend too many GRF's for newbies anyway :p
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16:57:36  <sai> he put these files in his folder:
16:57:38  <sai> TRG1.GRF
16:57:40  <sai> TRGC.GRF
16:57:41  <sai> TRGH.GRF
16:57:43  <sai> TRGI.GRF
16:57:44  <sai> TRGT.GRF
16:57:59  <glx> needed ttd files so it's ok
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16:58:05  <Kittysune> I seen people hauling coal with... that railcar in the UKRS set.
16:58:07  <SpComb> Logs:
16:58:07  <Kittysune> !logs
16:58:25  <Kittysune> [18:56] <Ailure> I wouldn't recomend too many GRF's for newbies anyway :p
16:58:25  <Kittysune> [18:56] <Ailure> some trainsets are like, much more advanced than the orginal trains
16:58:25  <Kittysune> [18:56] <Ailure> not that I mind, but it can be little confusing for some.
16:58:35  <sai> so what is the problem then?
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16:58:51  <sai> he did nothing else than to install the game and to cpoy these files...
16:58:59  <Ailure> really? Hmm..
16:59:53  <glx> sai: using default openttd.cfg?
17:00:24  <sai> well , I have never heard of an openttd-cfg, and he didnt play or had this game before, so I guess it will be the default.
17:05:02  <Thomas[NL]> can't Invisible Trees (with transparent buildings) be removed out of the Patches in the nightlies now we have Transparency options?
17:06:04  <Wolf01> i might put them in the gui
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17:18:59  <Eddi|zuHause2> how would you make a 3-way-switch-button (full/transparen/invisible) in the GUI?
17:19:06  <Eddi|zuHause2> +t
17:19:19  <Wolf01> should be cool
17:24:00  <Thomas[NL]> what TerraGenesis settings are you using most of the time?
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17:30:18  <Maedhros> heh,
17:30:30  <Maedhros> i wonder why it's always the people who write perfect english that apologise
17:30:46  <Maedhros> and it's usually the english people who write incomprehensible stuff
17:35:21  <Eddi|zuHause2> Wolf01: what about this:
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17:37:16  <Eddi|zuHause2> Maedhros: because those native english speakers never experienced how hard it is to talk in a foreign language
17:39:27  <Maedhros> probably, yeah
17:41:21  <Belugas> soooooo  true
17:43:40  <peter1138> helloa
17:44:30  <Thomas[NL]> Eddi|zuHause2, I like the shipping routes idea
17:44:33  * peter1138 returns from 'watering' the weeds
17:46:04  <peter1138> evilly supplying them with roundup
17:46:28  <Wolf01> Eddi|zuHause2, nice, but i can't understand how a route couldn't have more than one corner, if there is a b^b where ^ is a peninsulae and b the buoy, you have to put a buoy in the bit of the peninsulae?
17:46:45  <Wolf01> (tell me if you can't undertand me :D)
17:47:09  <Eddi|zuHause2> Wolf01: the more corners you allow, the more difficult the in-between pathfinding and the route-creating will be
17:47:18  <Eddi|zuHause2> if you have a peninsula, just build more buoys
17:47:22  <Thomas[NL]> what is a peninsulae??....
17:47:53  <Eddi|zuHause2> a semi-island
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17:48:22  <Eddi|zuHause2> a land edge that sticks into the water...
17:48:46  <Thomas[NL]> ah ok :)
17:49:35  <Belugas> peter1138, the gardener :)
17:49:43  <peter1138> yup
17:49:50  <peter1138> the bindweed is coming back
17:49:58  * Belugas imagines a hat, with flowers, gardening gloves and all...
17:50:00  <peter1138> so getting it while it's young...
17:50:48  <Belugas> last time i checked, no need for water.  just some snow shoveling :)
17:51:56  * Maedhros doesn't have a garden, although our tenancy agreement says we have to tend it ;)
17:52:12  <peter1138>
17:52:17  <valhallasw>
17:52:19  <peter1138> not flower
17:52:19  <valhallasw> er
17:52:20  <peter1138> s
17:52:23  <peter1138> growing veg :D
17:52:27  <peter1138> although... blurry photo
17:52:34  <valhallasw> wrong button >_>
17:53:13  <Eddi|zuHause2> a propos weeds... i should go watch it...
17:54:23  <Belugas> good growth so far :)  green thumb sir
17:54:47  <peter1138> well, no
17:54:50  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9677 /trunk/src/main_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Make the 'transparent buildings' menu item toggle all transparency, to keep its old behaviour.
17:54:58  <peter1138> the holy and the shrub were there already
17:55:05  <peter1138> they are starting to show up now though
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17:55:27  <peter1138> that lot was planted a week and a half ago
17:55:31  <hylje> bring me a shrubbery
17:55:56  <glx> ni
17:57:03  <peter1138> for belugas...
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17:58:01  <Belugas> hehe :)
17:58:14  <Belugas> that was how it looked in here about a week ago
17:58:27  <Thomas[NL]> peter1138, transparent buildings just toggles transparency of buildables here
17:58:56  <peter1138> hmm?
17:59:48  <Thomas[NL]> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9677 /trunk/src/main_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Make the 'transparent buildings' menu item toggle all transparency, to keep its old behaviour., using it now toggles the transparency of "buildables" like stations, depots etc here
18:00:01  <peter1138> well
18:00:08  <peter1138> it remembers what you had selected as transparent
18:00:19  <peter1138> same as pressing X
18:00:55  <peter1138> the text is wrong
18:01:01  <Wolf01> why are you keeping that option?
18:01:02  <peter1138> but it matches what it used to do
18:01:22  <peter1138> because i like it :p
18:01:53  <Thomas[NL]> oops, In was still using r9676
18:02:09  <peter1138> heh
18:02:27  <Wolf01> if you want i have a patch to toggle the "remember the selected transparent options" with a nice gui button
18:02:47  <peter1138> yeah, i might add that
18:03:21  <Wolf01> here is it
18:04:25  <Maedhros> wouldn't it be better to save the setting so you don't have to change it every time you start the game?
18:04:50  <Thomas[NL]> imho, the gui & patches need a little clean up, there are a couple of buttons and options that are not needed any more
18:05:08  <Belugas> ha.. we have a volunteer for the cleanup!
18:05:16  <peter1138> Maedhros: yeah, will at some point
18:05:25  <Maedhros> cool and groovy
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18:09:49  <Thomas[NL]> I, can make of list of proposed changes but I don't think I'll be able to code any of it
18:10:47  <Belugas> can start by a list...
18:11:31  <peter1138> Thomas[NL]: there is more to helping a project than coding :)
18:11:37  <Eddi|zuHause2> the most important imho is to clean up or split the vehicles patch page
18:11:49  <Eddi|zuHause2> it is way too crowded
18:11:54  <peter1138> the multiple pathfinder selections!
18:12:01  <peter1138> are we ready to ditch npf yet?
18:12:29  <Thomas[NL]> and npt?
18:14:03  <Eddi|zuHause2> and in the long term, make some patch settings into difficulty settings, the rest into game options
18:23:51  <Thomas[NL]> what is currently considered to be the "stable" pathfinder?
18:24:09  <peter1138> yapf
18:25:25  <Thomas[NL]> ok
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18:49:45  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9678 /trunk/src/aircraft_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: Support changing of aircraft running cost via callback 36.
18:50:01  <peter1138> (probably :p)
18:51:43  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: belugas * r9679 /trunk/src/transparency_gui.cpp: -Codechange: use enums to identify transparency widgets and add a bit of documentation (patch by Wolf01)
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19:11:33  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: miham * r9680 /trunk/src/lang/ (17 files): (log message trimmed)
19:11:33  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-04-19 21:10:21
19:11:33  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: bulgarian - 2 fixed by thetitan (1), kokobongo (1)
19:11:33  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: czech - 2 fixed by joeprusa (2)
19:11:33  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: danish - 2 fixed by ThomasA (2)
19:11:34  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: dutch - 2 fixed, 1 changed by habell (3)
19:11:34  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: esperanto - 2 fixed by LaPingvino (2)
19:12:02  <Belugas> whooo... a franzy
19:12:02  <MiHaMiX> MeusH: here
19:12:13  <MiHaMiX> MeusH: for 5 minutes, since I'm damn tired
19:13:05  <ln-> MiHaMiX: there are extra ':' characters in finnish.txt at STR_INDUSTRY_PROD_GOUP and _GODOWN
19:14:08  <MiHaMiX> ln-: i'll check it soon
19:14:13  <peter1138> and in turkish
19:14:19  <peter1138> STR_CONFIG_PATCHES_SERVINT_ROADVEH                              :{LTBLUE}Arabalar için varsay?lan servis gecikmesi:: {ORANGE}{STRING} gün/%
19:15:50  <Maedhros> hmm, that's done weird things to irssi
19:16:07  <MiHaMiX> peter1138: i can't check every single translation made by the translators
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19:16:22  <MiHaMiX> peter1138: if a translation syntactically correct, WT2 accepts that
19:18:23  <peter1138> no
19:18:26  <peter1138> i just pointed it out
19:19:59  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: miham * r9681 /trunk/src/lang/finnish.txt: [Translations] -Fix: removed two unnecessary colons from the finnish translations (spotted by ln-)
19:20:03  <MiHaMiX> peter1138: ok then :)
19:20:19  <MiHaMiX> peter1138: shall I remove those, too?
19:20:51  <Belugas> Smoky555, are you around?
19:20:57  <Belugas> or in other words :
19:21:01  <Belugas> Smoky555 : ping
19:22:47  <MiHaMiX> ok, let's go to sleep, i'm pretty damn tired :-(
19:22:50  <MiHaMiX> bye :)
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19:57:49  <Belugas> 'evening Tron
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20:16:08  <Thomas[NL]> what was that site where you can upload text or code?
20:16:35  <peter1138>
20:16:57  <Thomas[NL]> lol ok ty :)
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20:18:40  <Thomas[NL]> my suggestions for some gui text
20:19:14  <Wolf01> good :D
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20:37:24  <Belugas> bye guys
20:38:24  <Thomas[NL]> bye
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20:46:57  <dihedral> hello
20:47:06  <lolman> dihedral: ello
20:47:35  <dihedral> anybody here know something about the status of the loading stuff
20:47:43  <dihedral> i.e. trains at stations
20:48:11  <Eddi|zuHause2> can you be any less specific?
20:48:22  <dihedral> sure - anybody here know something
20:48:25  <dihedral> :-P
20:48:33  <Eddi|zuHause2> then no :p
20:48:34  <dihedral> well - 2 trains at one station...
20:48:50  <dihedral> you dont know anything Eddi|zuHause2 ?
20:48:53  <dihedral> that is sad :-P
20:49:02  <Eddi|zuHause2> "improved loading" does not do well with "gradual loading"
20:49:03  <dihedral> only one train at a time can load
20:49:19  <lolman> dihedral: what Eddi said :P
20:49:22  <dihedral> so - which one would you advise me to turn off
20:49:46  <Eddi|zuHause2> depends, gradual loading is more realistic, also it reduces loading times for long trains
20:50:17  <dihedral> i found nothing on improved loading on the openttd.cfg wiki page
20:50:23  * lolman reminds self to install OTTD again when he hits a GUI
20:50:27  <Eddi|zuHause2> improved loading can help you when you have not-so-busy stations, where max. 2 trains arrive simultaneously
20:50:59  <dihedral> what is it's behaviour over normal loading
20:51:24  <Eddi|zuHause2> normal loading = all trains get the same amount of cargo
20:51:38  <Eddi|zuHause2> so you might end up with two half-full trains
20:52:26  <dihedral> and improved only loads one train at a time?
20:52:28  <Eddi|zuHause2> improved loading = only one train gets cargo, until it is full
20:52:47  <Eddi|zuHause2> which was fine, as long as cargo was loaded instantly
20:52:56  <MeusH> goodbye
20:52:59  <dihedral> to avoid 3 semi full trains at one station waiting for more
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20:53:19  <Eddi|zuHause2> because then the remaining cargo could be distributed among the other trains
20:53:49  <Eddi|zuHause2> but with gradual loading, you cannot easily decide, how much cargo is "remaining"
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20:54:18  <Eddi|zuHause2> or rather, that check was never implemented
20:54:20  <dihedral> so an "either or" is what i am looking for, right?
20:54:49  <Eddi|zuHause2> yes
20:55:10  <Rubidium> huh? what are you talking about?
20:55:11  <dihedral> i heard a rumor of the entire loading algorithm needing to be redone...
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20:55:38  <dihedral> is that being done or is that just an uninteresting rumor
20:55:47  <Rubidium> well, the loading algorithms are ok; only some of the lookup related parts aren't
20:56:47  <Rubidium> like for improved loading it iterates over all vehicles to check whether the 'current' train is the 'first' train in the station
20:57:46  <Rubidium> so the loading algorithms are basically O(n^2), where n is the number of vehicles in the game (including shadows, rotors and wagons)
20:58:34  <Rubidium> it would be much better when the algorithms become O(m), where m is the number of trains (front engines at the 'current' station)
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20:58:49  <Eddi|zuHause2> <Rubidium> huh? what are you talking about? <- if there are 200 goods at a station, and two trains with capacity of 100 arrive, improved loading will prevent the second train from loading, even though the cargo suffices to fill the first train (but it takes a while with gradual loading)
20:59:50  <Rubidium> I thought that was already implemented
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21:00:12  <Maedhros> nope
21:00:16  <Eddi|zuHause2> not to my knowlege... but i did not really test
21:00:18  <Rubidium> too bad :(
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21:00:47  <Maedhros> and trying to add it to the current improved loading would probably cause it to explode
21:01:22  <Rubidium> anyway, the major problem of improved loading and gradual loadin together is their time complexity, which is fairly easy to fix in-game, but the saveload code for that is quite ugly
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21:02:24  <peter1138> what needs doing?
21:03:34  <Rubidium> <- that's how you make it O(m) instead of O(n^2)
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21:04:13  <Rubidium> it also makes loading FIFO
21:05:56  <peter1138> why does it need saving?
21:06:01  <peter1138> hmm
21:06:04  <peter1138> order
21:06:06  <peter1138> of course
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21:06:39  <Rubidium> exactly
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21:08:45  <dihedral> if that is what needs doing, will it be included some time soon(ish)
21:09:06  <dihedral> there is supposed to be a questionmark at the end of that last sentance :-)
21:10:05  <Rubidium> well, if somebody comes up with a way to the current savegame hack
21:10:17  <Rubidium> *way to solve
21:12:25  <peter1138> generic SLE_ thing
21:12:46  <peter1138> or maybe not generic :/
21:12:49  <peter1138> SLE_VEHICLELIST?
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21:17:25  <Eddi|zuHause2> shouldn't that stuff be saved with the station data?
21:17:44  <peter1138> it is
21:18:06  <Eddi|zuHause2> ah, so you mean a vehicle list in the station stuff
21:18:47  <Rubidium> not-generic would be easiest I guess
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21:19:42  <dihedral> in openttd.cfg, what is 'selectgoods' ?
21:19:49  <peter1138> well, can we we runtime determine the type?
21:20:07  <dihedral> not specified on the wiki under openttd.cfg
21:20:23  <peter1138> src/variables.h:        bool selectgoods;                   // only send the goods to station if a train has been there
21:20:34  <Rubidium> peter1138: not really
21:20:34  <dihedral> ah
21:20:41  <dihedral> thanks peter1138
21:20:53  <Rubidium> because we need to pass std::list<Vehicle*> and such
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21:22:23  * peter1138 ponders
21:27:48  <Rubidium> the major problem is that the saveload code assumes constant sized SaveLoad's, i.e. a variably sized list cannot be in a SaveLoad.
21:27:49  * Sacro|Laptop moves all flammable objects away from peter1138
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21:33:19  <Wolf01> 'night all
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21:58:33  <ln-> what useful could one do with two identical Celeron 2.13GHz machines? (besides running distcc)
21:59:11  <peter1138> give to me
21:59:13  <Rubidium> starting a beowulf cluster
21:59:41  <ln-> peter1138: i don't own them yet, so not possible
22:00:46  <ln-> what can one do with a beowulf cluster, and is two machines enough for something sensible?
22:01:31  <lolman> ln-, you could use folding@home :P
22:05:08  <Sacro|Laptop> oh noes, its him
22:05:19  <lolman> It is indeed
22:05:29  <lolman> I installed Arch again :)
22:06:08  <Sacro|Laptop> yay
22:06:12  <Sacro|Laptop> Arch is amazing
22:06:30  <lolman> Wireless took some prodding to get going but it works :)
22:07:03  <lolman> A testement to ndiswrapper's progress I think
22:09:04  <Sacro|Laptop> yeah, my desktop is using ndiswrapper
22:10:04  <lolman> Now I just need to find a good emerald theme and I'm set :D
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22:15:07  <Maedhros> night everyone
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22:29:17  <peter1138> hmm, compiled, no warnings...
22:29:49  <peter1138> yay, segfault :p
22:30:06  <Sacro|Laptop> hehe
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22:33:17  <UndernotBuilder> I wish.. that openttd 1.0 is out now :P
22:34:09  <mikk36[EST]> u wish.... to much
22:34:23  <mikk36[EST]> too*
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22:34:41  <UndernotBuilder> I make reference to the "shoot a openttd wish" topic or whatever else
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22:39:41  <peter1138> Rubidium: "appears" to work
22:39:48  <peter1138> Rubidium: in that it doesn't crash, and save/loads games...
22:40:12  <peter1138> it's a SL_LST type that will save/load any existing REF_ type
22:40:33  <peter1138> and it's horrible, but at least it's more generic ;)
22:40:59  <peter1138>
22:41:02  <peter1138>
22:41:06  <peter1138> first is just saveload
22:41:13  <peter1138> second is the saveload & the station changes
22:42:19  <peter1138> mind you
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22:42:26  <peter1138> it's probably invalid and just works by fluke...
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23:03:23  <peter1138> quick test reveals correct save/load
23:06:03  <peter1138> nini
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