Log for #openttd on 7th June 2007:
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00:00:28  <Eddi|zuHause> what?
00:00:51  <Eddi|zuHause> the "standard" revision will always be the current stable...
00:01:01  <Eddi|zuHause> that's why it is the current stable
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00:01:15  <UndernotBuilder> for example - server admins agree to use rXXXXX revision for their servers
00:01:47  <Eddi|zuHause> there'd be no point in a stable if nobody used it
00:02:05  <UndernotBuilder> that's because I don't use nightlies / want to get 0.6.0 released
00:02:41  <Eddi|zuHause> so what is the problem?
00:03:14  <Eddi|zuHause> current stable is 0.5.2, if you use that, you will find the most compatible servers
00:03:30  <UndernotBuilder> but there are less features in 0.5.2
00:03:43  <Eddi|zuHause> so?
00:03:56  <Eddi|zuHause> trunk is by far not ready for 0.6.0
00:04:20  <Eddi|zuHause> or rather, it is too soon after 0.5.0
00:04:23  <UndernotBuilder> no trams, no one way roads, no other great features
00:04:39  <Eddi|zuHause> but still, what is the problem?
00:05:00  <UndernotBuilder> I want to play with more features
00:05:25  <Eddi|zuHause> and what does that have to do with specific revisions?
00:06:05  <Eddi|zuHause> if you find an unstable server, just get the revision that server runs
00:06:10  <UndernotBuilder> because generally servers uses different revisions
00:06:34  <Eddi|zuHause> that's what 'svn up -r XXXXX' is for
00:06:39  <DJGummikuh> this does not make any sense
00:06:48  <DJGummikuh> I allowed port 3979 udp and tcp
00:06:59  <DJGummikuh> nevertheless I can't connect to the server
00:07:11  <UndernotBuilder> and I don't want to download 3484189471 different revisions
00:07:20  <Belugas> UndernotBuilder : if nobody test the nightlies, how can we find all the bugs that are in it?
00:07:33  <Belugas> don't forget that nighlies will bring 0.6.0 and others as well...
00:07:34  <UndernotBuilder> that's the point
00:07:36  <DJGummikuh> only if I do iptables -F it works
00:07:37  <DJGummikuh> btw
00:07:42  <DJGummikuh> I have a strange bug with 0.5.2
00:07:46  <Eddi|zuHause> UndernotBuilder: the point of a nightly is that it is a different one every night
00:07:50  <UndernotBuilder> make the nightlies more popular
00:08:06  <DJGummikuh> when on tracks from lower right to upper left, the coal lorrys for monorails appear full when they are empty
00:08:21  <Eddi|zuHause> UndernotBuilder: then start your own nightly server
00:08:36  <DJGummikuh> as soon as the train alters direction they appear empty again but as long as it travelles from upper left to lower right or vice versa they allways look full
00:08:36  <Eddi|zuHause> and deal with all the issues that come with it
00:08:41  <UndernotBuilder> and the others nightly servers?
00:09:04  <Belugas> what about them?
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00:09:16  <UndernotBuilder> and also, I will not get too many clients like in stables
00:09:32  <Eddi|zuHause> brianettas nightly was very popular
00:10:04  <UndernotBuilder> and the others servers will not use always the same revision than my server
00:10:15  <DJGummikuh> does someone here have a 0.5.2 running?
00:10:24  <Eddi|zuHause> until he decided to stop it, because trunk got very little changes, while important features were developed in branches
00:10:29  <DJGummikuh> and can tell me if it needs any other port than 3979 in tcp and udp?
00:10:29  <Belugas> DJGummikuh, no, sorry
00:10:36  <Belugas> but i will eventually check it
00:10:54  <DJGummikuh> Belugas: yeah looks rather odd ^^
00:10:54  <Rubidium> DJGummikuh: it doesn't, unless you want to run an advertised server
00:11:09  <DJGummikuh> Rubidium: it already is advertised
00:11:19  <DJGummikuh> dbg: [NET][UDP] We are advertised on the master-server!
00:11:26  <DJGummikuh> well wait
00:11:32  <DJGummikuh> that was before I started my firewall..
00:11:37  <DJGummikuh> what ports do I need for an advertised server?
00:11:42  <Rubidium> !openttd port
00:11:43  <_42_> Rubidium: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication and UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advsertise) communication (outbound)
00:12:01  <DJGummikuh> Rubidium: I know that... but this info does not make my server appear when it should...
00:12:15  <Eddi|zuHause> then you misconfigured your firewall
00:12:21  <DJGummikuh> I have tcp and udp for 3979 activated and I don't need to declare any outgoing things
00:12:32  <glx> do you have a router?
00:12:39  <DJGummikuh> glx: no
00:12:51  <DJGummikuh> that's why I run iptables on the machine hosting the server ^^
00:12:59  <DJGummikuh> it has a global ip
00:13:16  <DJGummikuh> iptables -A INPUT -p udp --dport 3979 -j ACCEPT         #OpenTTD
00:13:16  <DJGummikuh> iptables -A INPUT -p tcp --dport 3979 -j ACCEPT         #OpenTTD
00:13:22  <DJGummikuh> that should be ok, no?
00:13:42  <Eddi|zuHause> i did not try to configure iptables manually yet...
00:14:11  <Rubidium> if it works without firewall *and* you didn't force the port to be different, that should be OK if it were the only lines, but other lines could kick OTTD packets on beforehand
00:14:34  <glx> DJGummikuh: I can see your playhouse server
00:14:53  <DJGummikuh> odd
00:15:06  <DJGummikuh> yes and now I even can access it... why couldn't I do so before? *confused*
00:15:12  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10050 /trunk/ (config.lib configure): -Codechange: make it a little easier to force a version number (for releases).
00:15:31  <Eddi|zuHause> DJGummikuh: the order of the rules is often important
00:15:50  <DJGummikuh> odd
00:15:54  <DJGummikuh> Eddi|zuHause: I haven't changed anything
00:16:03  <DJGummikuh> Eddi|zuHause: hmm...
00:16:04  <Eddi|zuHause> they always say that :p
00:16:04  <UndernotBuilder> but someone has a solution for my trouble?
00:16:17  <DJGummikuh> maybe some of the admins of the net gone loco again -.-
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00:18:20  <Eddi|zuHause> i always used the SuSEFirewall2 wrapper to configure iptables
00:19:24  <DJGummikuh> Eddi|zuHause: well I'm more the old fashioned way and do it by hand.. that way I can be quite sure that (despite my own dumbness) nothing stands between what I WANT the firewall to do and what it actually DOES :D
00:20:12  <Belugas> UndernotBuilder, i don't think that the simple fact of using nightlies will push users away.  Make it attractive with some nice features, like cool maps, a good set of grfs, thinkgs like that
00:20:29  <Belugas> advertise it on your signature,
00:20:38  <Belugas> let yourself visible
00:20:53  <Belugas> and do not care about the other servers, only yours
00:21:38  <DJGummikuh> ah btw visible servers
00:22:07  <DJGummikuh> you should really somehow forbid to add special chars as first char in the server name to push the server further to the top when listed by name
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00:22:31  <Rubidium> DJGummikuh: then everybody would call his server aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
00:22:31  <DJGummikuh> if you only allow letters to be the first char, this habit should go away
00:22:36  <DJGummikuh> Rubidium: I don't think so
00:22:38  <Eddi|zuHause> there are two basic ways to run a nigtly server: a) stop the game each night, update the binary, reload the game again, or b) start the game on one revision, and keep it until the game ends, then update for the next game
00:22:57  <DJGummikuh> ,.-'°FunnyServer°'-., doesn't look as stupid as
00:23:02  <DJGummikuh> AAAAAAAAAAA Funny Server
00:23:29  <Rubidium> still, who cares about that ordering?
00:23:43  <DJGummikuh> Well I do since I need a way to find my server which starts with D
00:23:48  <Eddi|zuHause> you could introduce a setting to ignore special characters when sorting
00:23:57  <DJGummikuh> as an alternative you could implement something like a favorite list
00:24:07  <DJGummikuh> or "recently played" or something similar
00:24:09  <glx> DJGummikuh: use connect_to in cfg
00:24:31  <Rubidium> connect once manually to that server by entering it's IP or dns name
00:24:54  <DJGummikuh> and then?
00:25:04  <glx> [servers] section is a good thing too
00:25:32  <Rubidium> the next time it'll already be in the server list
00:25:43  <DJGummikuh> oh
00:25:44  <DJGummikuh> cool
00:26:01  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10051 /trunk/ ( config.lib): -Add: git "version" detection so we've got at least some indication what version we're playing when using git ;)
00:37:40  <Belugas>
00:37:46  <Belugas> toumdedoum!
00:40:34  <DJGummikuh> you made it?
00:41:25  <Sleepie> Nice one :) is the space between the four parts usable for infrastructure or is it just eyecandy?
00:43:05  <Belugas>
00:43:08  <Belugas> nope
00:43:22  <Belugas> they are the creation of mr Pikka
00:43:24  <DJGummikuh> what is so special about it that its worth a screenshot though?
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00:43:55  <Belugas> that is a little victory i had just a few minutes ago over newindustries !
00:44:13  <DJGummikuh> what's newindustries? (sorry if this is a dumb question)
00:44:32  <Belugas> DJGummikuh, try to meet a forest like those two in the current game ;)
00:44:58  <Belugas> it's a grf specs that enables creating and/or modifying industries
00:45:00  <Belugas> ingame
00:45:24  <Belugas> we had newhouses recently, newindustries is the logical follow up
00:45:42  <Sleepie> Belugas: ahh, Pikka's latest creations anyway really nice and even better to see them in a openttd game ;)
00:46:08  <DJGummikuh> Belugas: well I have a rather large forest in my current game on my server.. looks like 2 forests put next to each other but is only one
00:47:02  <Sleepie> DJGummikuh: are you sure it's only one?
00:47:17  <DJGummikuh> Sleepie: well if I click on it, only one info window openes
00:48:32  <Sleepie> DJGummikuh: hmm, even if you click at different edges? Perhaps you have a screenie of it?
00:49:19  <DJGummikuh> Sleepie: if you have 0.5.2 handy you could simply join and check for yourself.. I'll double-check though
00:50:04  <DJGummikuh> ok now two windows were opened
00:50:21  <Sleepie> :P
00:50:25  <DJGummikuh> hmm..
00:50:47  <DJGummikuh> I would have bet money on that last time I checked there was only one forest.. :)
00:51:03  <Sleepie> well no prob, I do that often when I make new maps
00:51:10  <Eddi|zuHause> how far is it from this success to the "end-victory"? :p
00:51:50  <Belugas> there are only 2 versions of the forest ingame.  one with 18 tiles, the other with 23.  but none bare the same patterna s the two i've just shonw
00:57:23  <DJGummikuh> ah yeah one other thing.. why aren't you on freenode?
00:57:23  <DJGummikuh> right now I have to be on 4 irc servers because everybody is on his own irc server... that sucks
00:57:23  <Rubidium> because there were some trouble with freenode for a very long time and at a point it was "enough" and we moved
00:57:23  <DJGummikuh> hmm... problems with their policy or what?
00:57:23  <glx> register for PM is an example
00:57:23  <Belugas> this one for sure you don't see often around :
00:57:24  <DJGummikuh> glx: actually I like that policy
00:57:32  <Belugas> Eddi|zuHause : i still maintain my ETA : somewhere around fall
00:57:44  <DJGummikuh> lol nice
00:59:06  <Eddi|zuHause> fall gets nearer every day :)
01:00:03  <Belugas> yeah. but it's 3 months long :D
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01:12:10  <Sleepie> time for bed, g'night all
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01:34:27  <gass> hello there
01:34:33  <gass> is the svn admin here?
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01:34:38  <gass> it's about trac
01:36:31  <Rubidium> what's with trac?
01:37:26  <gass> the problem that is facing is fixed in trac 0.10.4
01:37:36  <gass> two concurrent resync attempts can leave the database in an inconsistent state
01:37:53  <gass> and also give instability problems
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01:38:03  <Rubidium> does instability mean horribly slow?
01:38:10  <gass> yes
01:38:14  <glx> the problem was ressource usage IIRC
01:39:08  <gass> glx, yes ... i just remembered this problem in openttd ... we fixed this in trac 0.10.3 in debian, but it's fixed in trac 0.10.4
01:39:34  <gass> i just tought you could try 0.10.4
01:40:17  <gass> well ... cy
01:40:19  <gass> off to bed
01:40:35  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: ^ can you confirm that trac is fixed?
01:41:10  <Rubidium> (don't expect response for the next at least 6 hours or so from TrueBrain)
01:41:40  <gass> no ... i just remembered your case ... and decided to check with you
01:41:48  <gass> well ... cya
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01:53:03  <Sacro> Rubidium: when he sobers up?
01:54:06  <Rubidium> that's not needed at all
02:00:36  <Sacro> when he stops eating cake :p
02:00:36  <Rubidium> boekabart took that
02:05:59  <Sacro> lol
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06:28:07  <boekabart> goodmorning earthlings
06:28:20  <hylje> evening boekabart
06:29:03  <boekabart> strange.. how one wishes to others what actually is valid for oneself...
06:29:09  <boekabart> so, good evening hylje :)
06:29:16  <hylje> :o
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07:21:07  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r10052 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Codechange: Support reserve/activate stage bits of action 7/9 variable 84.
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08:20:15  <Nickman> hi all
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08:58:37  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10053 /trunk/src/road_cmd.cpp: -Fix: could not clear a level-crossing tile with tram tracks.
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09:18:49  <TheJosh> where can i put some code to clean up some stuff when a game is abandoned?
09:18:56  <TheJosh> aka dynamic array
09:19:14  <peter1138> we just rely on the OS ;p
09:19:33  <peter1138> i don't think ottd runs on any systems that don't free up used memory on exit
09:20:00  <boekabart> it runs... once
09:20:02  <Kjetil> Oh noes.. it won't run on DOS ! aaaaahhh
09:20:02  <boekabart> maybe twice
09:20:17  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10054 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: make the industries cost modifier look more like the original one, so it's much easier to support industries that use this original format.
09:20:41  <peter1138> Kjetil: does DOS even have a concept of free memory? heh
09:20:52  <peter1138> i imagine any dos 'extender' would handle it anyway
09:20:57  <peter1138> just guessing though
09:20:57  <boekabart> well there was always too little, so it must have
09:21:07  <Rubidium> anything about 640kB is free, right?
09:21:16  <Rubidium> *above
09:21:32  <peter1138> i think 'mem' knew of stuff in EMS/XMS, so...
09:22:13  <peter1138> hmm, mem is qemu says so, but that's freedos
09:22:16  <boekabart> peter1138: pretty sure that the heap of the protected mode 'layer' would clean up better than openttd does :)
09:22:26  <peter1138> Extended (XMS)  130,048K    12,744K   117,304K
09:22:38  <boekabart> you run DOS on the side? :)
09:22:39  <peter1138> yeha
09:22:40  <TheJosh> so noone cleans up there heap objects anymore?
09:22:43  <Kjetil> peter1138: haha.. I was using Dos the other day. I am amazed how poorly designed it is. Why did people buy that crap ?..
09:22:45  <peter1138> ottd only cleans up between games ;)
09:22:56  <TheJosh> isnt a 'memory leak' a non-cleaned up heap object?
09:23:10  <Rubidium> no
09:23:18  <TheJosh> i have a unopened genuiene copy of MS-DOS 6.2
09:23:24  <Nickman> Cool :D
09:23:25  <Rubidium> a memory leak is a non-cleaned up heap object that doesn't have any reference to it anymore
09:23:29  <Biff> memory leak is when you have allocated memory which has 0 references to it
09:23:48  <peter1138> "FreeDOS is resident in the high memory area."
09:23:50  <peter1138> woo, intelligent
09:23:52  <TheJosh> but if the program closes, there will be no reference to my object
09:24:02  <peter1138> still only 619KB of 'conventional' memory free
09:24:04  <peter1138> heheh
09:24:07  <Biff> if the program closes the memory is free
09:24:12  <peter1138> been AGES since i heard that conventional memory term
09:24:27  <Kjetil> Biff: if you run a proper os :P
09:24:38  <peter1138> even windows frees it, heh
09:24:50  <Biff> what os doesnt free memory?
09:24:55  <Kjetil> dos :P
09:24:57  <TheJosh> old windows
09:25:02  <Biff> i think win9x had some bugs, but it did it
09:25:05  <TheJosh> 95 and 98
09:25:32  <Biff> well, it did free memory, but there were some bugs that were never fixed, so it didnt always manage to free memory
09:25:33  <boekabart> 95/98 tried to, but didn't have the possibility to enforce it 100% i think
09:25:36  <TheJosh> and XP until your program uses about 800mb of ram (i tested it once by mkaing lots of integers)
09:25:52  <Biff> hehe
09:26:04  <TheJosh> then at 90% full or so it just drops off
09:26:09  <Biff> that seems like a hard way to do it .-)
09:26:12  <TheJosh> i guess the GC went through
09:26:22  <Biff> what GC?
09:26:22  <boekabart> that's swapping. look at VM size rather than memory size
09:26:35  <TheJosh> nonetheless, can i execute code to clean up this memory?
09:26:45  <TheJosh> GC = garbage collector
09:26:56  <peter1138> what GC, not what is GC
09:26:58  <Biff> yes, did you use a gc language?
09:27:28  <TheJosh> no this experiment was in c++
09:27:29  <Biff> if you used something like java, its the java vm that frees up the memory, by doing reference counting
09:27:29  <boekabart> XeryusTC: we talked about GC yesterday too
09:27:38  <Nickman> C and C++ doesn't do automatic GC ..
09:27:45  <Nickman> as I recall...
09:27:45  <XeryusTC> :o
09:27:46  <boekabart> you can easily replace your malloc/free by a GC library.
09:27:52  <TheJosh> the os must then if what you guys are taling about is true
09:27:52  <Biff> ok, then there usually is no GC
09:28:21  <Biff> TheJosh: the os knows when the process is closed, and it can mark its memory as free
09:28:22  <Nickman> in C++ you have to do all garbage collection yourself. But this only goas for dangling pointers...
09:28:33  <boekabart> if you close a program when debugging it in in msvc, i'll give you a list of all the memory blocks unfreed
09:28:36  <Nickman> local varables and stuff are removed when they go out of scope
09:28:57  <Nickman> and indeed, when the program terminates, the OS recieves all the memory again ;)
09:28:58  <Biff> boekabart: ah, something like valgrind
09:28:58  <boekabart> then you can set a breakpoint on their allocation (if repeatable)
09:29:17  <peter1138> valgrind is just designed to make it impossible to test by being really slow...
09:29:30  <boekabart> so if you make sure the game does 100% the same thing on a run (until closing) you can figure out what blocks they are.
09:29:37  * peter1138 remembers that days when newgrf leaked memory like a sieve
09:29:53  <TheJosh> where can i put some code after the game has been closed?
09:30:32  <peter1138> UnInitializeGame() in openttd.cpp does some clean up
09:30:40  <boekabart> class bla { public: ~bla() { /* the code */ } } onebla;
09:30:48  <Nickman> when the game is closed you shouldn't do anything, it gets thrown away anyway... :D
09:30:58  <peter1138> not all pools are cleaned up though. hmm.
09:31:02  <Nickman> yeah, use destructors...
09:31:07  <peter1138> boekabart: roflcopters
09:31:25  <Biff> is there any free space in savegames?
09:31:40  <boekabart> only in small ones :)
09:31:40  <TheJosh> peter1138: thanks for an actual answer
09:31:56  <Biff> or rather, if i wanted the savegame to remember last railtype used, would it break compatibility?
09:32:17  <boekabart> Biff: you can add a variable to patches
09:32:25  <boekabart> without UI
09:32:32  <boekabart> you'll have to bump the savegame version though
09:32:46  <Rubidium> Biff: not necessarily, but requires quite a lot of work to do it in a way that you can still load old savegames
09:33:19  <Biff> i see
09:33:19  <Rubidium> so, technically possible, practically unfeasible
09:34:06  <Biff> i hate building the wrong type of rail
09:34:07  <Biff> :p
09:34:16  <TheJosh> does openttd mainly use malloc or new ??
09:34:24  <TheJosh> to create an object on the heap
09:34:34  <peter1138> mainly malloc
09:34:48  <TheJosh> malloc and free?
09:35:13  <Rubidium> no, malloc and delete and new and free ofcourse ;)
09:35:28  <TheJosh> ok thanks
09:35:43  <Rubidium> *kuch*
09:35:46  <boekabart> whoops :)
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09:38:54  <Rubidium> TheJosh: do you have *any* real knowledge about programming in C(++)? As in not applying php skills or so on C(++)
09:39:42  <Nickman> :D
09:40:12  <Noldo> Rubidium!
09:40:29  <TheJosh> Rubidium: i have some C++ but i am mainly using OpenTTD as a C++ learning platform. I do have about 12-14 years programmign experience in 19 languges at last count
09:40:51  <boekabart> TheJosh: 19?!?
09:41:02  <boekabart> TheJosh: is that including english? just kidding :)
09:41:04  <TheJosh> some are dialects. 15 to be safe
09:41:18  <TheJosh> also depends what you think of html and css
09:41:19  * boekabart would like to see a list :)
09:41:24  <Rubidium> does that include C?
09:41:53  <peter1138> html and css are not programming languages
09:41:54  <TheJosh> probably shouldnt
09:42:08  <TheJosh> i know, but they still require learning
09:42:09  <peter1138> (but javascript is, of course)
09:42:10  <ln-> TheJosh: html and css are of course not programming languages.
09:42:25  <boekabart> TheJosh: xsl is, though.
09:42:25  <TheJosh>
09:42:47  <Rubidium> xml and uml neither, unless you're talking about exectable uml
09:43:01  <TheJosh> i know all that
09:43:27  <TheJosh> of course there not programming langues. they are markup languages (except css, thats a style language0
09:43:58  <boekabart> you haven't even left earth yet, ever?
09:43:59  <boekabart> :)
09:44:14  <TheJosh> its on the todo: list
09:44:31  <boekabart> does jumping count?
09:44:43  <TheJosh> in that case i have left earth
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09:45:30  <TheJosh> "Segmentation Fault" whee
09:45:40  <ln-> i don't think regular expressions are a programming language either.
09:45:41  <Noldo> gotta love them
09:46:03  <Rubidium> does "This user can program in X" mean "This user did some stuff in language X, but doesn't have a deep understanding of the langauge"?
09:46:03  <Noldo> ln-: it's a language defining language
09:46:18  <Rubidium> in that case my list becomes pretty long too
09:46:18  <TheJosh> yeah
09:46:31  <TheJosh> but a stack on that list I do have a deep understanding of
09:46:48  <blathijs> Saying "XML is a programming language" is like saying "Text is a programming language", really
09:47:01  <TheJosh> proably c/c++, scheme and asm i dont know very well
09:47:13  <TheJosh> im not saying xml is a programming language
09:47:39  <TheJosh> ok 14 programming langues, 11 im good at
09:47:42  <blathijs> The reverse also goes, btw :-)
09:47:55  <blathijs> oh, we're counting programming languages :-)
09:48:14  <TheJosh> i know i wont win, but i dont care. i just do my best
09:48:44  <boekabart> blathijs & Rubidium :
09:48:59  <Rubidium> yeah, I know that (a little)
09:49:15  <ln-> when I change text to bold and italics in openoffice, and even change font, am I programming in openofficeish?
09:49:36  <blathijs> ln-: If you like to think so, then yes ;-p
09:49:37  <Rubidium> hmm, does vhdl count?
09:49:43  <boekabart> DUH!
09:49:47  <boekabart> of course it does
09:50:11  * boekabart wonders if he just said duh out load
09:50:12  <Rubidium> well, it is a hardware description language
09:50:43  <boekabart> well.. isn't C is a software description language :)
09:50:57  <Rubidium> ofcourse it looks awfully lot like a programming language
09:51:04  <boekabart> it's all if (input) then output();
09:52:00  <Rubidium> in that case... I can (i.e. once programmed in) [..lot of languages..] ;)
09:53:03  <skidd13> Remember all the shell/batch/makro languages... The list is huge.
09:53:24  <boekabart> i'm quite a btm expert myself :)
09:53:38  <TheJosh> i only wrote bash because i can do loops and ifs and stuff like that in bash
09:58:11  <TheJosh> i think i am killing the code
09:58:34  <TheJosh> dont worry i will get my patch working before i release it
09:58:50  <skidd13> Did someone tried the new ms batch thing (don't remember the name)?
09:59:04  <boekabart> i've played with it a while ago
09:59:14  <boekabart> but man didn't work, so i gave up quickly
09:59:23  <boekabart> can't imagine why they had to invent smth new
09:59:39  <boekabart> any choice of langs (like python) would have worked fine imho
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10:00:39  <skidd13> I've a bash runing at my NT 5.1 @work. So I don't mind what MS invents. :)
10:02:11  <boekabart> nt5.1? that's code for?
10:02:16  <boekabart> 2003 sp 0?
10:02:31  <Rubidium> XP iirc
10:02:52  <peter1138> TheJosh: besides, 'asm' for which processor?
10:02:54  <skidd13> XP aka codename "whistler" ...
10:03:08  <boekabart> Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
10:03:13  <skidd13> 5.2 is 2003
10:03:16  <boekabart> ok
10:03:16  * peter1138 knows 'asm' for 6502, not that it's very useful
10:03:25  <TheJosh> peter1138: x86
10:03:38  <boekabart> peter1138: 99% same as 6800/68000?
10:03:53  <peter1138> not as far as i know
10:04:44  <peter1138> heh, i used to use debug at school to 'enable' the mouse pointer in DOS
10:05:48  <boekabart> i've never used masm. just debug.exe  and ah, edit.exe?
10:06:50  <peter1138> assembly the real man's way ;)
10:07:21  <boekabart> well it's hard to make a lot that way
10:07:52  <Nickman> I know some assemble ;). Had to make a quicksort in it :|
10:08:01  <boekabart> a made a tsr once to hook int so-much calls that would enable me to use my C64 joysticks in dos games (via a parallel port interface)
10:08:04  <Nickman> assembly*
10:10:34  *** Thomas[NL] [] has joined #openttd
10:10:39  <skidd13> Every programming-language has it's purpose ... even if it's nonsense or fun ... (except prolog IMO :lol:)
10:11:59  <TheJosh> would I be able to pm someone so i can get some advice (without embarresment or ruining your assembly conversation)
10:14:04  <skidd13> Rubidium: I splitted the rest of the order_gui patch. Where should I post it? Flyspray?
10:16:39  <boekabart> XeryusTC: patch managment, we talked about that too :)
10:16:52  <XeryusTC> :o
10:17:02  <XeryusTC> that took you a long time to come up with :P
10:18:51  <TheJosh> mewh im off
10:18:58  <TheJosh> cya round everyone
10:19:03  <TheJosh> sorry about all the c++ questions
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10:22:33  <Nickman> skidd13: I learnd Prolog, Haskell and LISP this year, I hate em :p
10:23:52  <skidd13> Prolog has abilitys, but I don't like it either.
10:24:03  <Nickman> yeah, you can dome some cool stuff with it
10:30:57  <Nickman> I'm gonna try to compile OTTD in Cygwin, any problems I should look out for?
10:32:43  <hylje> its silly
10:33:41  <Nickman> ?
10:33:55  <skidd13> Just another thing: what about NC-Programming (programming or description language)?
10:34:28  <skidd13> NC -> CNC
10:34:36  <Nickman> hmmmm
10:34:40  <Nickman> that's a tuff one :)
10:34:53  <Nickman> You describe all the movements so I would say description
10:35:20  <skidd13> but in some dialect you can do if and sub programms etc.
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10:35:31  <Nickman> yeah
10:35:35  <Nickman> don't knwo about that...
10:41:05  <Nickman> Cygwin keeps hanging here : "[SRC] DEP CHECK (all files)"
10:41:41  <Nickman> ah, it's going further ;)
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10:43:19  * peter1138 kicks CIA-1
10:43:19  <CIA-1> ow
10:43:27  <Nickman> lol
10:43:40  <Nickman> peter1138: getting compile errors in cygwin, could you help maybe?
10:43:58  <Nickman> or is it plain stupid to try and compile in cygwin
10:44:02  *** TheMask96 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:44:05  <peter1138> should work no problem
10:44:51  <Nickman> this is my log :
10:44:56  <Nickman> am I missing some libraries?
10:45:45  <peter1138> tuff
10:45:47  <peter1138> err
10:45:53  <peter1138> you're missing zlib/libpng stuff
10:46:03  <peter1138> grrr, that's pissing me off
10:46:05  <Nickman> hmmmm, I installed them... :s
10:46:08  <Nickman> I'll recheck
10:46:13  <peter1138> and their devel counter parts?
10:46:24  <Nickman> ah, maybe that's the thing...
10:46:25  <Nickman> sec
10:46:41  <Nickman> whats pissing you off?
10:47:07  <peter1138> some oddity on my system/ssh/screen/irssi/somewhere
10:47:23  <peter1138> i'll be typing something and it'll suddenly clear the line, or go back to a previous line i typed
10:47:39  <peter1138> as if the mouse wheel is moving on its own, perhaps
10:48:28  <Nickman> I have from libpng:
10:48:28  <Nickman> libpng 12: PNG library 1.2.x runtime (1.2.12-1)
10:48:28  <Nickman> libpng 122-devel: PNG library - 1.2.x development libraries and headers (1.2.12-1)
10:48:33  <Nickman> do I need the source to?
10:49:20  <Nickman> zlib I have 1.2.3-2 (only one thing is in cygwin...)
10:53:58  <Nickman> peter1138 ?
10:55:41  <blathijs> Nickman: -devel should be enough
10:56:13  <Nickman> I have em so... :s
10:57:15  <Nickman> why am I getting this... svn: '\cygdrive\e\OpenTTD\src' does not exist
10:57:18  <Nickman> it does exitst
11:18:15  <stillunknown> Rubidium: ping
11:19:59  <DJGummikuh> Pong
11:20:03  <DJGummikuh> package re-rout
11:20:04  <DJGummikuh> e
11:20:21  <stillunknown> I'm not pinging you ;-)
11:20:24  <boekabart> MIM attack!
11:20:25  <Nickman> :D
11:20:28  <DJGummikuh> yay
11:21:26  <Nickman> I think I'm having problems with svn in cygwin ;)
11:21:58  <blathijs> Nickman: What svn command triggers that error?
11:22:11  <Nickman> I'm trying to get OTTD compiled :d
11:22:26  <Nickman> don'tk now the command but I get this
11:22:33  <Nickman> svn: '\cygdrive\e\OpenTTD\src' does not exist
11:22:42  <Nickman> so.. I'm guessing something wrong with my subersion
11:22:49  <Nickman> I'm adding some packages to cygwin
11:23:04  <blathijs> Nickman: Can you try "make VERBOSE=1", that should display the executed commands IIRC
11:23:11  <Nickman> aha
11:23:20  <Nickman> I'll try when cygwin update is done ;)
11:24:41  <stillunknown> Rubidium: revision 10049 broke multiplayer games
11:24:45  <stillunknown> openttd: /ts/downloads/openttd2/src/saveload.cpp:297: int SlIterateArray(): Assertion `next_offs == 0 || SlGetOffs() == next_offs' failed.
11:24:52  <stillunknown> When trying to join.
11:24:57  <Eddi|zuHause2> <skidd13> Every programming-language has it's purpose ... even if it's nonsense or fun ... (except prolog IMO :lol:) <- prolog is clearly one of the greatest languages invented :)
11:26:22  <Nickman> and why is that? :p
11:27:29  <Eddi|zuHause2> because!
11:28:24  <Eddi|zuHause2> but really, prolog is so cool if you can handle it properly :)
11:29:14  <blathijs> #troll prolog
11:29:39  <Eddi|zuHause2> above that is only Haskell :)
11:30:07  <Eddi|zuHause2> in what other language can you calculate all prime numbers in a short one-liner?
11:30:20  <Nickman> hahaha :D
11:30:23  <Nickman> that's true :d
11:30:23  <DJGummikuh> Eddi|zuHause2: in what language would you possibly WANT that?
11:30:33  <DJGummikuh> :D
11:30:42  <Eddi|zuHause2> you need prime numbers for lots of reasons :)
11:30:50  <DJGummikuh> hmm agreed
11:31:17  <Eddi|zuHause2> but try to implement the sieve of erathostenes in C(++)
11:32:37  <DJGummikuh> what I did not understand until today: is it random how industries change output or can I somehow manipulate that?
11:32:48  <DJGummikuh> I mean the ressource gathering industries like mines and wells
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11:36:37  <Nickman> blathijs: new compile log...
11:37:04  <Nickman> all goes well until heigtmap
11:37:55  <blathijs> Nickman: So, the svn issue is resolved, that's good
11:38:11  <blathijs> Nickman: It seems you don't have zlib-devel or something similar?
11:38:23  <DJGummikuh> what I did not understand until today: is it random how industries change output or can I somehow manipulate that?
11:38:27  <DJGummikuh> I mean the ressource gathering industries like mines and wells
11:38:35  <blathijs> Nickman: Did you run ./configure? What output does it give?
11:38:36  <Nickman> I have it installed, but it searches for the file in de libPNG folder?
11:38:46  <Nickman> I did run it, but it scrolled out of range :d
11:38:50  <Nickman> I'll run it again
11:39:21  <blathijs> Ther should be an -I argument for zlib too, but I can't find it
11:39:48  <Nickman> configure log :
11:40:20  *** TinoM [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:40:36  <Nickman> yeah, that I is missing... :|
11:40:54  * DJGummikuh feels ignored
11:41:09  <Nickman> The zlib.h file is in the main include folder...
11:41:19  <Nickman> DJGummikuh: I have no ID :)
11:41:34  <DJGummikuh> Nickman: no ID? ^^
11:41:39  <Nickman> no idea ;)
11:41:47  <DJGummikuh> hmm...
11:41:50  <DJGummikuh> who has, then?
11:43:32  <DJGummikuh> oopsie
11:43:56  <blathijs> Nickman: Where is zlib.h exactly?
11:44:12  <Nickman> in /usr/include
11:44:18  <blathijs> that should work...
11:46:32  <blathijs> Nickman: I think you need -I /usr/include explicitely passed
11:46:42  <Nickman> yeah, but how do  I do that?
11:47:02  <Nickman> I tried copying the zlib.h file into the llibpng folder now ;)
11:47:02  <Nickman> :d
11:47:04  <Nickman> :D
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11:47:52  <blathijs> Nickman: That probably worked, right?
11:48:02  <Nickman> dunno, it's busy :d
11:48:08  <blathijs> Nickman: export CFLAGS="-I/usr/include" should help
11:48:14  <blathijs> then reconfigure and recompile
11:48:23  <Nickman> ah
11:48:28  <Nickman> I'll try that in a minure
11:48:30  <Nickman> minute
11:48:56  <DJGummikuh> hmm can't the dedicated dump a screenshot of the map?
11:49:06  <Nickman> ?
11:49:13  <blathijs> bbl
11:49:32  <DJGummikuh> I'm in dedicated control and did screenshot big
11:49:54  <DJGummikuh> I'm certain it cannot create a simple screenshot because it doesn't know where to look but screenshot big should work on dedicated server as well imho
11:50:16  <Nickman> the DEP check takes ages...
11:50:25  <Eddi|zuHause2> you can do a "goto <tile>"
11:50:34  <Eddi|zuHause2> then take a normal screenshot
11:50:43  <Eddi|zuHause2> like brianettas "webcam"
11:50:49  <DJGummikuh> goto: command not found
11:50:54  <DJGummikuh> Eddi|zuHause2: lol? link?
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11:51:18  <Eddi|zuHause2> it's "scrollto", i believe
11:51:32  <DJGummikuh> yeah
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11:51:44  <Eddi|zuHause2> it's in the forum somewhere
11:51:45  <DJGummikuh> but when I create a screenshot, I get libpng error: IDAT: CRC error
11:51:54  <Eddi|zuHause2> or on
11:52:00  <DJGummikuh>
11:52:07  <DJGummikuh> that should be a screenshot of the entire map
11:52:44  <Kjetil> you killed my firefox ! :P
11:53:03  <DJGummikuh> ah lol sry
11:53:20  <DJGummikuh> I wgetted it and tried with feh
11:53:23  <Nickman> firefox sucks at big images :D
11:53:36  <DJGummikuh> woah it kills my opera too :)
11:53:49  <Nickman> it doesn't kill my opera...
11:53:59  <boekabart> ie7 shows it
11:54:01  <DJGummikuh> nah but my system :))
11:54:03  <DJGummikuh> boekabart: reallyß
11:54:05  <DJGummikuh> that is odd
11:54:06  <Eddi|zuHause2> it opene directly in gwenview here...
11:54:19  <DJGummikuh> I use the standard libpng library and it doesnt work here
11:54:33  <DJGummikuh> even opera shows it only black
11:54:44  <boekabart> that's the corner
11:54:48  <boekabart> it IS black
11:54:55  <boekabart> scroll to center
11:55:09  <DJGummikuh> AH LOL
11:55:16  <Eddi|zuHause2> the corner is always black :)
11:55:18  * DJGummikuh = TEH N00B
11:55:32  <boekabart> well you said it ;)
11:55:54  <DJGummikuh> feh can't display it nonetheless
11:55:58  <Nickman> euhm blathijs, placing the file in the libpng folder caused abunch of errors :D
11:55:58  <DJGummikuh> and why are the trees transparent?
11:56:19  <Eddi|zuHause2> because you set that?
11:56:21  <boekabart> apparently that's your server default setting?
11:56:51  <DJGummikuh> hm... what's the var to change that?
11:57:24  <blathijs> Nickman: And with the CFLAGS thing?
11:57:46  <Eddi|zuHause2> list_patches?
11:58:14  <Eddi|zuHause2> i actually have no idea
11:58:19  <Nickman> I'm trying blathijs but don't i have to do the "export CFLAGS="-I/usr/include"" after I configure?
11:58:25  <DJGummikuh> cool
11:58:57  <DJGummikuh> can I somehow get help to a specific patch setting?
11:59:19  <Eddi|zuHause2> in the worst case, grep the source code :)
11:59:36  <blathijs> Nickman: no, the configure should pick it up and save it
12:00:01  <blathijs> Nickman: in any case, bash will keep the CFLAGS value around as well
12:00:02  <Nickman> ah, it's there!
12:00:11  <Nickman> I'll try to compile ;)
12:01:18  <DJGummikuh> can I alter the config file while a game runs? so that when I restart the server afterwards, it uses the new config?
12:01:56  <Eddi|zuHause2> on normal program termination, the config file is overwritten
12:02:03  <Eddi|zuHause2> so you'd have to kill the server
12:02:15  <DJGummikuh> meh
12:03:32  <Nickman> blathijs: new log :
12:04:08  <DJGummikuh> what are freight_trains in the config?
12:04:57  <Nickman> I get another error now
12:06:02  <Eddi|zuHause2> the freight train multiplier affects acceleration with full trains
12:06:43  <blathijs> Nickman: uh... I don't really know what causes that :-S
12:06:48  <Eddi|zuHause2> for all except passengers/mail, the weight of the wagon is multiplied
12:07:14  <blathijs> Nickman: It seems that something is different for files in subdirectories (ie, "ai", but I can't tell what exactly)
12:07:17  <Eddi|zuHause2> i.e. like 1 "symbolic" wagon represents 5 "real" wagons
12:07:53  <Nickman> I'll try a full recomiple...
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12:22:02  <Nickman> blathijs: new log :
12:22:09  <Nickman> now it dies at the second file already :D
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12:24:05  <blathijs> Nickman: It seems it doesn't like the -I/usr/include then?
12:24:31  <Nickman> no :s
12:29:56  <Eddi|zuHause2> didn't the wiki always say libpng does not work under cygwin?
12:30:11  <Nickman> it's zlib that's causing problems :(
12:32:08  <stillunknown> blathijs: the r10000 party, wasn't it a bit impractical, during the day (classes and such)?
12:36:24  <Rubidium> who has classes anyway?
12:36:59  <stillunknown> People who go to universities ;-)
12:37:08  <boekabart> or high schools
12:37:24  <stillunknown> Rubidium: did you get the message, i sent (about the bug you introduced)?
12:37:27  <Nickman> blathijs: I think I'm getting further than before!! I forgot to copy a file to the libpng (zlib has 2 files) nog they are both in lobpng :p
12:37:35  <boekabart> come in, CIA
12:37:40  *** Digitalfox [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:37:40  *** TheJosh [] has joined #openttd
12:37:46  <TheJosh> hey
12:37:49  <boekabart> CIA?
12:37:50  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: miham * r10055 /trunk/src/lang/ (6 files): (log message trimmed)
12:37:50  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-06-07 14:37:06
12:37:50  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 3 fixed by tucalipe (3)
12:37:50  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: catalan - 3 fixed by arnaullv (3)
12:37:50  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: danish - 1 fixed by ThomasA (1)
12:37:51  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: estonian - 99 fixed by kristjans (99)
12:37:51  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: galician - 8 fixed by Condex (8)
12:38:00  <boekabart> good boy
12:38:02  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10056 /trunk/src/ (saveload.cpp saveload.h vehicle.cpp): -Revert (r10049): removing SLE_WRITEBYTE didn't work as expected :(. Somehow SlIterateArray and SlObject depend on eachother and adding a some arbitrary data before the SlObject makes it go crazy.
12:38:11  <boekabart> CIA-1: you can stop now
12:38:15  <Nickman> lol
12:38:28  <Nickman> I think I'm actually compile OTTD!!!!
12:38:29  <Nickman> :D
12:38:36  <Rubidium> stillunknown: what message?
12:38:47  <stillunknown> The thing you just fixed ;-)
12:38:51  <TheJosh> excuse me could someone please point out what im doing wrong? im sure its something real simple but its driving me nutter
12:38:58  <Rubidium> (hopefully fixed)
12:39:10  <Nickman> show us :p
12:39:11  <Rubidium> you're using malloc and delete together?
12:39:26  <boekabart> or new and free?
12:39:47  <TheJosh> i cant even get malloc to work
12:39:53  <TheJosh> i keep segfaulting
12:40:06  <TheJosh> i have this variable:
12:40:07  <TheJosh> static TextEffect *_text_effect_list = NULL;
12:40:16  <boekabart> TheJosh: use if you need to paste larger pieces of code
12:40:32  <TheJosh> can i do one liners?
12:40:39  <Nickman> I'm getting linking error now :
12:40:43  <Nickman> can someone help? :(
12:40:43  <TheJosh> ill use paste
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12:41:43  <stillunknown> Rubidium: My problem is gone.
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12:43:30  <TheJosh>
12:43:44  <stillunknown> Can anyone explain why a dedicated server still does rendering?
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12:44:14  <boekabart> stillunknown: the calls are all over the place
12:45:05  <TheJosh> sorry im such a n00b
12:45:06  <Eddi|zuHause2> stillunknown: because nobody took the time to unfiddle the spaghetti code
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12:45:41  <peter1138> no they're not
12:45:50  <peter1138> it's pretty simple to stop it
12:46:47  <boekabart> peter1138: yes they are. there are about 16 calls accessing the video memory
12:46:54  <boekabart> 16 functions
12:46:57  <TheJosh> actually
12:47:13  <boekabart> TheJosh: you could've updated the first one :)
12:47:20  <Nickman> peter1138: you have any idea about this linking error? is my libPNG corrupt or so?
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12:48:11  <TheJosh> i tried to but it then only had my new stuff
12:48:16  <Rubidium> TheJosh: why malloc something that has *always* the same static size?
12:48:24  <TheJosh> i think i screwed it uyp. just look for 3 posts by me
12:48:44  <boekabart> nevermind
12:48:46  <TheJosh> Rubidium: because i wanted to get the array working to begin with, then add the dynamic stuff
12:48:47  <boekabart> i see your problem
12:48:58  <boekabart> line 42
12:49:22  <boekabart> _text_effect_list[i] is a TextEffect, not a *. You put that into a *
12:49:57  <stillunknown> Why not use some kind of data container for this?
12:49:59  <boekabart> make line  43 _text_effect_list[i].string_id != /....
12:50:00  <Rubidium> but the compiler should cry about that, unless he's using 0.5.x (but even then it should)
12:50:10  <boekabart> Rubidium: it should
12:50:34  <peter1138> boekabart: accessing video memory? i think you're looking at the wrong level
12:50:57  <boekabart> peter1138:  _cur_dpi, i mean
12:51:19  <peter1138> then yes, you're at the wrong level
12:51:47  <boekabart> Q is: if you move the 'if' up one level... won't you skip out on other code too?
12:52:06  <TheJosh> "texteff.cpp:282: error: cannot convert 'TextEffect' to 'TextEffect*' in assignment" (aka line 42)
12:52:25  <boekabart> TheJosh: that was what Rubidium and I were expecting
12:52:41  <peter1138> boekabart: not if you do it at the right place
12:53:02  <boekabart> peter1138: like i did in the 'renderer' class patch, do you consider that the right place or not?
12:53:27  <peter1138> no, that's way too low
12:54:08  <boekabart> rendere:
12:55:06  <peter1138> hehe, = 0
12:55:09  <peter1138> stupid C++ :p
12:55:19  <boekabart> #define pure = 0 :)
12:55:25  <TheJosh> boekabart: so how do I avoid casting hell? how can something seemingly so simple be so crap?
12:55:26  <boekabart> without the :)
12:55:38  <boekabart> TheJosh: 1 sec
12:55:42  <TheJosh> ok thanks
12:55:55  <boekabart> (by not taking this approach, by the way).
12:56:07  <peter1138> boekabart: with that you're still telling it what to draw, including loading and looking up sprites
12:56:49  <boekabart> TheJosh:
12:57:26  <boekabart> peter1138: looking up, yes, loading, no (that's done in DrawSprite or GfxMainBlitter i think)
12:57:43  <Nickman> blathijs: any idea?
12:59:33  <boekabart> peter1138: obviously, the EmptyRenderer returns immediately on all calls. (or returning a dummy value)
13:00:30  <peter1138> you can save a lot of processing by returning early in ViewportDraw
13:00:41  <TheJosh> boekabart: still segfaults. that function does other stuff with te after the loop
13:00:47  <peter1138> you can save even more by not calling doing anything with windows at all
13:01:03  <TheJosh> things like "te->string_id = msg;"
13:01:15  <TheJosh> am I asking at a bad time?
13:01:36  <boekabart> TheJosh: are you sure the _list... is not NULL there?
13:02:31  <TheJosh> how do you output an error?
13:02:42  <TheJosh> printf?
13:04:42  <valhallasw> depends what you want to happen
13:04:59  <TheJosh> i just need to know when my funciton is called
13:08:31  <TheJosh> the list is defidently there
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13:08:51  <Eddi|zuHause2> TheJosh: use debug()
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13:10:27  <XeryusTC> TheJosh: assert()
13:10:49  <Eddi|zuHause2> that's probably not what he wants :)
13:10:56  <TheJosh> thanks anyway
13:12:31  <TheJosh> the problem is not in the loop. it is after the loop
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13:14:09  <TheJosh>  << entire function
13:14:22  <TheJosh> it segfaults after "doing stuff"
13:16:32  <blathijs> Nickman: Ah, you;ve reached the linker :-)
13:16:47  <boekabart> TheJosh: now te is never set
13:16:57  <boekabart> the outside one
13:17:07  <boekabart> right
13:17:22  <blathijs> Nickman: I don't know what causes that, perhaps some library should be linked in that isn't...
13:17:30  <boekabart> replace line 13 by
13:17:30  <boekabart> te = &_text_effect_list[i];
13:17:38  <blathijs> Nickman: (btw, do document your findings on the wiki if you get it to work..)
13:17:45  <boekabart> and init te with NULL and test for it after the for
13:18:49  <Eddi|zuHause2> that code does not make any sense to me
13:18:55  <Nickman> blathijs: I got the compiling to work by placing the zlib files into the pnglib folder :p
13:19:08  <Nickman> but now I think my libPNG isn't correct or something...
13:19:12  <TheJosh> "texteff.cpp:284: error: request for member 'string_id' in 'te', which is of non-class type 'TextEffect*'"
13:19:19  <Eddi|zuHause2> e.g. why is it te.string_id once, and te->string_id the other time?
13:19:33  <TheJosh> 284 is line 14
13:20:38  <Nickman> te is a pointer, replace te te. with te-> on line 14 and try again
13:20:44  <TheJosh> changed te.string_id to te->string_id
13:20:50  <Nickman> and?
13:20:53  <TheJosh> it compiles, runs, doenst segfault
13:21:02  <TheJosh> but also does nothing (the array is not updated)
13:21:03  <Nickman> tada ;)
13:21:05  <Nickman> hehe :D
13:21:18  <TheJosh> the function does not work
13:21:20  <Nickman> where does it have to add it?
13:21:40  <TheJosh> to the array.
13:21:43  <Nickman> what array needs to be updated?
13:22:08  <Nickman> could you point me to the line where you update the array?
13:22:11  <TheJosh> the loop is to find a free spot in the array. i did not code this, i am just tryng to get it working with a dynamic array so i can have 25 or 1000 elements
13:22:26  <TheJosh> the original code did not have a update it used pointers i guess
13:23:01  <Nickman> so, in the for loop, you are looking for an empty spot?
13:23:05  <TheJosh> yes
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13:23:37  <Eddi|zuHause2> i think you should look into container types...
13:23:47  <TheJosh> thanks
13:23:48  <Eddi|zuHause2> and not try to fiddle with this stuff
13:23:49  <Nickman> what type does "_text_effect_list[i]" return ?
13:23:57  <TheJosh> a struct
13:24:31  <TheJosh> Eddi|zuHause2: i play with containers every day (aka high-level languages) how can i learn stuff if i take the easy road each time
13:24:43  <TheJosh> sure im diving everyone nuts, and to that im sorry
13:25:01  <Nickman> why don't you change this TextEffect *te; into TextEffect te;
13:25:01  <Nickman> and don't work with silly pointer?
13:25:19  <Nickman> since you have to get rid of the pointer here : TextEffect &te = _text_effect_list[i];
13:25:20  <Nickman> ?
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13:25:39  <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, why don't you directly assign stuff to _text_effect_list[i]?
13:25:55  <TheJosh> i dunno
13:26:02  <TheJosh> its just the way the old code was
13:26:29  <Eddi|zuHause2> e.g. in the if...break part
13:26:40  <Eddi|zuHause2> where i is still valid
13:27:21  <Eddi|zuHause2> btw. is that intentional that, if no free spot is found, the last spot is overwritten?
13:27:47  <Nickman> try this?
13:27:54  <TheJosh> originally it had a weird loop
13:28:19  <TheJosh> look in texteff.cpp around line 270
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13:30:21  <TheJosh> Nickman: sorry didnt work
13:30:33  <TheJosh> dont worry about this i will get it eventually.
13:30:38  <TheJosh> thanks everyone
13:30:47  <TheJosh> im going to bed now
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13:31:00  <Eddi|zuHause2> TheJosh: yes, this "weird" loop does nothing if the array is full
13:31:15  <Eddi|zuHause2> because it returns
13:31:30  <Eddi|zuHause2> your loop just exits and continues with the assignments
13:32:08  <Eddi|zuHause2> i hope you notice the difference between a "break" and a "return"
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13:35:28  <Nickman> hehe, he will get a corrupt array if he tries his code :)
13:40:33  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r10057 /trunk/ -Fix (r10051): git version detection didn't work for mingw/msys
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13:47:26  <TheJosh> got it
13:47:30  <TheJosh> thanks everyone
13:47:34  <TheJosh> im off now again
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14:07:10  <Nickman> blathijs: new compile error (messing with some packages...)
14:07:13  <Nickman> any idea?
14:07:58  <glx> freetype
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14:09:24  <Nickman> yeah, but how can I solve it?
14:09:30  <Nickman> just delete it or what? :p
14:11:14  <boekabart> no, get it!
14:17:55  <Nickman> I have it, that's the problem :D
14:18:08  <Nickman> I just installed it in cygwin and now I get these errors ;)
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14:22:39  <eekee> I'd sugest that it's either the wrong version of freetype, or more likely that it's installed somewhere that gcc isn't looking
14:24:15  <Nickman> hmmmm
14:24:20  <Nickman> this is the include path
14:24:21  <Nickman> -DWITH_FREETYPE -I/usr/include/freetype2
14:24:36  <Nickman> buth in that directory, there is only one map named freetype wich has all the files
14:24:38  <eekee> on my system ft2build.h is at /usr/include/ft2build.h, but I reemember some systems as having all the freetype stuff under /usr/X11R6
14:24:51  <Nickman> should I just get all those files out of there?
14:25:12  <eekee> you could try it
14:26:01  <Nickman> I think I found a misplaced file...
14:26:15  <colle> you shouldn't move those
14:26:20  <eekee> it's not in /usr/local/include/ is it? (Mind you, gcc should be looking there by default, iirc)
14:26:21  <colle> create a symlink instead
14:26:28  <Nickman> yep, now it contineus
14:26:33  <Rubidium> Windows and symlink
14:26:38  <colle> oh, windows
14:26:40  <colle> nevermind
14:26:41  <Rubidium> something they don't go together
14:26:43  <Nickman> it was in /usr/include
14:26:50  <eekee> o ok
14:26:56  <Nickman> I copyd the file into the freetype2 map
14:26:59  <Nickman> now it works
14:27:04  <eekee> ^^
14:29:18  <Nickman> now I get linking errors again :(
14:30:22  <boekabart> so, Nickman, you're on windows right
14:30:26  <Nickman> yep
14:30:32  <boekabart> why gcc?
14:31:01  <Nickman> cause I felt like it? :D
14:31:05  <Nickman> linking errors...
14:31:49  <Eddi|zuHause2> the question is not why gcc, but why cygwin and not mingw?
14:32:07  <Nickman> MSYS wasn't working at all... :(
14:32:14  <Nickman> stopid thing could even install wget :p
14:32:46  <Eddi|zuHause2> i never had a problem with that...
14:32:50  <Nickman> Vista...
14:33:04  <eekee> you had a masochistical moment? Like I did when I decided to scrap suse & install from scratch, using an out of date linux from scratch mini-howto and the source packages on the suse dvd because I didn't have an internet connection?
14:33:06  <Eddi|zuHause2> although i had wget long before i installed mingw...
14:33:49  <Nickman> haha, cool eekee ;)
14:34:09  <eekee> ^^'
14:34:33  <Nickman> yeah... Vista is a pain in the ass when it comes to compiling...
14:34:41  <boekabart> Nickman: you DO realize ms has a free C++ IDE for windows?
14:34:45  <eekee> It was fun, but dependancy tracking was hell & eventually nothing supported glibc-2.2 any more
14:35:05  <Nickman> yep, visual studio...
14:35:08  <boekabart> that one
14:35:23  <boekabart> it's free as in free beer! which is the best beer.
14:35:40  <glx> it's just big to install
14:35:43  <Nickman> I think I even have it installed somewhere :D
14:36:03  <boekabart> double click projects/openttd_vs80.sln to test that theory
14:36:03  <Nickman> yep
14:36:06  <Nickman> I do ;)
14:36:30  <boekabart> get the from the site, and go
14:36:56  <glx> don't forget DXSDK and PlatformSDK :)
14:37:26  <boekabart> well dxsdk
14:37:35  <boekabart> some kind of psdk comes with it usually
14:37:45  <Nickman> :p
14:37:49  <Nickman> I'll try it ;)
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14:38:58  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10058 /trunk/src/ (7 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: give some industry variable sensible names (like not telling "last_mo_production" when it is the production of the current month).
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14:45:04  <Nickman> installing even more microsoft shit...
14:46:57  <eekee> Hey why are you running their OS in the first place?
14:47:20  <Nickman> hehe :d
14:47:25  <eekee> :)
14:47:30  <Nickman> because it's easy...
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14:47:56  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: I will give trac 0.10.4 a try when ever I have the time to review it :p
14:48:09  <Rubidium> Nickman: yeah, we see how "easy" it is
14:48:14  <Nickman> hahaha :D true...
14:48:29  <Nickman> When I do another format, I'll be installing a new Ubuntu again ;)
14:49:10  <geoffk> ew ubuntu slows everything down i find
14:49:32  <geoffk> no idea how its so slow on the desktop it pretty much kills a pIII
14:51:06  <geoffk> i had 2 almost same spec systems pIII's 32mb agp, one debian one ubuntu runnign pretty much same stuff, debian only had 128ram it coped pretty well ubuntu had 256mb ram and was much slower
14:51:08  <peter1138> it's called "gnome"
14:51:31  <Touqen> gnome is not for the faint of ram
14:51:35  <geoffk> yeah it could be gnome the problem, i use kde myself
14:51:37  <peter1138> once upon a time, linux desktops were called lightweight...
14:51:59  <peter1138> that was in the days of twm, rxvt and netscape 3
14:52:04  <geoffk> i run my kde on slack11.0 now its runs far better than anything i seen s far
14:52:32  <Touqen> peter1138: Weren't those all borrowed from unix?
14:52:41  <peter1138> strange that ;p
14:53:46  <geoffk> worst thing i found o ubuntu was trying to use the wizards on OOo2 its was insanely slow
14:54:06  <geoffk> using base
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14:56:01  <geoffk> i also find ubuntu can be somewhat buggy and cause of some lenghtly problems to debug
14:56:27  <Rubidium> that happens when you're basically playing with Debian Unstable
14:56:40  <geoffk> Rubidium, indeed i much agree
14:57:01  <peter1138> hmm, 7.04 is pretty stable for me
14:57:16  <geoffk> it has its uses sometimes ubuntu, i had used servers on it which have more uptodate packages but now etch is here i don't need it
14:57:19  <Rubidium> Debian Unstable is pretty stable for me too ;)
14:59:07  <geoffk> i came accross a really odd bug with ubuntu building a xhtml doc creator in php on apache, soemthing was gong strangly wrong when viewing the doctype declearation in page source on a browser, thus failing validation
14:59:49  <geoffk> i tested everything on 2 other dostros, nothign wrong with what i was doing
14:59:55  <Nickman> so, what distro do you guys suggest?
15:00:09  <Rubidium> lfs
15:00:23  <Nickman> lfs?
15:00:30  <peter1138> i'd stick to debian for servers
15:00:33  <geoffk> debian for simple admin, slackware is my choice
15:00:35  <Nickman> for home PC :p
15:00:43  <peter1138> ubuntu
15:00:47  <Nickman> k ;)
15:00:48  <peter1138> cos it's easy peasy
15:00:52  <Nickman> hehe :D
15:00:54  <Nickman> I know
15:00:55  <geoffk> servers i tend to use debian desktop i go with slackware
15:00:58  <Nickman> Suse also...
15:00:59  <Rubidium> linux from scratch is so much more rewarding
15:01:01  <peter1138> maybe others are these days
15:01:08  <Nickman> All our PC at school have SUSE on it besides XP
15:01:10  <Rubidium> suse <==> microsoft
15:01:11  <peter1138> Rubidium: tedious, i though
15:01:13  <peter1138> +t
15:01:50  <peter1138> sort of like gentoo...
15:02:11  <geoffk> if you install debian etch for servers check out xen, i use it on all my server, i got various ubuntu, debian and slackware OS's running on top of it
15:02:56  <Rubidium> gentoo does all the stuff that would be rewarding of lfs for you
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15:05:34  <geoffk> i build virtual machines with xen on debian for each service im running, such as mail http dns and dhcp
15:05:46  <geoffk> even got one just for openttd
15:05:57  <geoffk> running slackware
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15:22:44  <eekee> hehe
15:23:17  <skidd13> ever tried "ALT linux"? I'd have stayed with it but due the language differences I moved to DEBIAN (sid)
15:23:20  <eekee> Rubidium: Tried Gentoo.. ahh, it's got it's uses, but I much prefer Source Mage
15:25:54  <eekee> I've used suse too, moderately liked it, much better than the red hat 7 I switched from. I'm inclined to think that the bitching against suse is a generic hate of corporations, which I don't agree with. I don't like MS because o the feeling of taking power away from the user, & there's plenty of linux distros that make me feel like that :s
15:26:19  <geoffk> i've only ever really used slack, deb, ubuntu much, i ttried gentoo but its just too much a headache htat for me is unecessary, infact i messed up in the docs installign it somewherre took a wroge path instead of stage 3 install i ended up with a stage 2 this was on a slow system too took hours to install
15:26:47  * HMage is a proud debian user
15:26:59  <HMage> ...sitting on Windows XP at home :)
15:27:04  <eekee> awwwww
15:27:09  <eekee> hehe
15:27:44  <eekee> I've never tried Debian, I've always had the impression it's a big monster of a distro that will just confuse me
15:27:52  <geoffk> debian is a excellent system, although someimes i find the way it does things a bit unconventional but plus side it has a huge variety of prebuilt packages which can be installed nice and easy
15:27:53  <skidd13> my debian is about 30-40 % faster than the last xp I had on this machine
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15:28:07  <eekee> cool
15:28:20  <HMage> eekee: it's pretty straightforward, and it's scalable.
15:28:30  <eekee> My SMGL's pretty quick, but then I run without a desktop env at all, lol
15:28:37  <eekee> HMage: interesting, ty
15:28:42  <hylje> heh smgl
15:28:46  <eekee> :)
15:28:49  <geoffk> i also find debian to be a well tested stable system possibly one of the best
15:29:01  <eekee> ahh, that i'm not surprised about ^^
15:29:04  <HMage> debian isn't good for desktop though
15:29:09  <HMage> (IMHO)
15:29:12  <hylje> ubunto
15:29:26  <geoffk> i used debian on sarge for a couple of months on the desktop i had no problems with it
15:29:32  <eekee> I am primarily looking for a desktop os, ya. One I can tinker with a bit though
15:29:39  <Noldo> well, debian is not even trying to be goon for desktop
15:30:11  <eekee> hehe
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15:30:33  <valhallasw> woot, there actually is an openttd_family for pywikipedia :D
15:30:35  <Noldo> oops
15:30:38  <HMage> I wrote the message about desktop @ debian as a minor warning.
15:30:44  <hylje> pywikipedia? wut
15:31:13  <valhallasw> yes, the python mediawiki bot
15:31:23  <eekee> 's funny, I say (and am) using an OS primarily for desktop, but the only big app I'll touch with a 10-foot pole is Firefox, & then only because without KDE I don't see much of an alternative
15:31:25  <Nickman> I think visual studio is working :)
15:31:48  <eekee> ^^'
15:31:50  <hylje> eekee: iceweasel?
15:32:02  <eekee> hylje: /me casts...
15:32:03  <geoffk> opera is better i fine chews less ram
15:32:05  <skidd13> Icewm + Idesktop + rox is a nice alternative to kde
15:32:15  <eekee> hylje: actually, is it gecko-based?
15:32:20  <hylje> it's rebranded fox
15:32:23  <Noldo> if you need anything non-free in debian you are heading for trouble and for desktop you usually want good drivers for graphics adapter and there's no free ones available
15:32:24  <hylje> the same thing
15:32:54  <HMage> Noldo: that was fixed
15:33:10  <eekee> geoffk: I'm not surprised there, but opera... well it went from having everythign configurable to setting everything in exactly the way that was most awkward for me, lol. Not that FF is any better any more, but....
15:33:25  <Noldo> skidd13: I used icewm on a really old laptop I had
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15:33:57  <eekee> Never liked ice. Reminded me too much of win98, & had nothing that fvwm didn't have double of, lol
15:34:27  <eekee> I use ion3 now. Bit wierd sometimes, but it Works For Me very well, lol
15:34:50  <geoffk> eekee, i personaly dont use opera myself just i noticed it used less ram thasn firefox, i had issues wiht opera runing a flash chat client, the flash app would got blank on me
15:34:59  <eekee> ah okie
15:35:10  <Nickman> ok, it is compiling!
15:35:22  <geoffk> shame really because until i found that problem i was enjoying opera
15:35:22  <Nickman> is there a way to solve the norev000 thingie?
15:35:46  <skidd13> I came from wmaker and moved to icewm, cause of better performance (and nice gui/using the aqua skin).
15:36:00  <eekee> Nickman: Either use svn -r to grab the source, or edit  Makefile.*
15:36:01  <Rubidium> not using a non-release version in MSVC
15:36:17  <eekee> I prefer wmaker, I like the docking
15:36:23  <Noldo> HMage: it still takes a bit more than simple software installation and there is no quarantee that it will stay fixed
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15:36:33  <Rubidium> eekee: he's using MSVC, so makefiles don't matter
15:36:37  <eekee> Rubidium: then edit the makefiles I guess *shrug*
15:36:41  <Nickman> yep
15:36:42  <eekee> OH ://///
15:36:55  <eekee> see, this is why I won't touch IDEs with a 10-ft pole :D
15:37:10  <eekee> Don't mind me 6^;
15:37:11  <eekee> ^^;
15:37:13  <Nickman> so Rubidium how do I get the release? I selected "release" in the menu bar...
15:37:31  <Rubidium> download the 0.5.2 sources for example from the website
15:37:48  <Rubidium> any trunk version will have norev000 with MSVC
15:37:50  <Nickman> I have latest truck at the moment?
15:37:51  <Nickman> ah
15:37:54  <Nickman> k, np ;)
15:37:57  <Nickman> I'll stick with it :p
15:39:08  <skidd13> Rubidium: Had/Have you time to look over the splitted diffs ? ->
15:39:17  <Nickman> so, now I can compile some hsizzle ;)
15:39:20  <Nickman> shizzle
15:39:36  <Rubidium> skidd13: not really, can run the binary from here, so I can't test it
15:40:25  <skidd13> ok
15:41:58  <peter1138> splitted, hehe
15:42:49  <skidd13> he asked for a split so he got one. ;)
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15:43:21  <peter1138> splitted is not a word, though.
15:43:39  <Zavior> splitteredted
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15:43:54  <Nickman> :p
15:43:58  <Nickman> stop making up words :D
15:44:30  <skidd13> damned false friends
15:45:32  <skidd13> I shoud have asked leo before. ;)
15:49:36  <skidd13> I read STR_CREATE_LAKE due compilling. Anything to do with boekabart?
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16:31:07  <Wolf01> hello
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17:02:35  <Wolf01> 5i-_-<esc>
17:03:09  <Eddi|zuHause2> Gesundheit.
17:03:11  <Wolf01> ops... not vim
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17:25:53  <Wolf01> what is the git version detection?
17:27:19  <Eddi|zuHause2> like the svn version detection to write rXXXX in the title?
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17:31:58  <skidd13> svk revision detection would be cool, but atm I don't have a nice way to implement. :(
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17:42:32  <Nickman> what is the easyest way to get a correct revision number in VisualStudio?
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17:43:03  <boekabart> afaik, there is no easy way to do so
17:43:18  <boekabart> a batch file using svnversion is what i use at work
17:43:43  <Nickman> can I use it to?
17:44:05  <Eddi|zuHause2> you could just edit rev.cpp
17:44:17  <Nickman> ah :)
17:44:56  <Eddi|zuHause2> but it is mostly cosmetic
17:45:14  <Nickman> it's to be able to test a patch on a server so...
17:45:28  <Eddi|zuHause2> just that you cannot determine network compatibility
17:45:44  <Eddi|zuHause2> you can join any server with norev000
17:45:50  <Nickman> ah
17:45:51  <Nickman> cool
17:46:07  <Eddi|zuHause2> just you will get desyncs if the version is not correct
17:46:18  <boekabart> better, start you own server with openttd -D
17:52:27  <hylje>
17:53:00  <Nickman> whats that hylje?
17:53:10  <hylje> it's a roundabout.. i think
17:53:23  <skidd13> wtf! a two way roundabout
17:53:25  <Eddi|zuHause2> it's a "magic roundabout"
17:53:57  <Wolf01> mmm i'll try to do it with ottd
17:55:35  <peter1138>
17:55:55  <hylje> ouch.
17:56:10  <hylje> all that needs is a center roundabout
17:56:28  <peter1138>
17:57:16  <skidd13> I'd say build a 2 level roundabout with inversed directions is much more efficent.
17:58:04  <peter1138> way more expensive though
17:58:51  <hylje> :D
17:58:53  <skidd13> Not if you add the insurance costs. ;)
17:58:57  <peter1138> ctrl-alt-c doesn't work in real-life ;(
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17:59:06  <peter1138> skidd13: i don't think road designers care about that...
17:59:33  <skidd13> They must be MS users. ;)
18:01:26  <hylje> those magic roundabouts are rather epic
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18:01:31  <hylje> i wish we had those here
18:01:59  <skidd13> I think it's horror to drive through them
18:02:45  <Wolf01> uhm, with 4 is easy...
18:04:10  <Eddi|zuHause2> people already got horror with our normal roundabout here
18:04:25  <hylje> hence they should TOTALLY build a magic roundabout
18:04:33  <hylje> ON A FRIGGING HIGHWAY
18:05:01  <Eddi|zuHause2> but it was totally easy to get through, just pick the right lane before entering, and you automatically get thrown out at the right exit
18:05:41  <Eddi|zuHause2> the problems were only you had to pay attention to the trams that were crossing at 3 points
18:06:35  <Eddi|zuHause2> but they totally rebuilt the place now
18:06:43  <Eddi|zuHause2> the tram is 1 level below the roundabout now
18:06:52  <Eddi|zuHause2> and they put up traffic lights at the entrances
18:06:55  <hylje> :o
18:07:12  <Eddi|zuHause2> you still have to pick the right lane before entering though :)
18:11:28  <Eddi|zuHause2> but to support skidd13's point, they added the additional level because there were lots of accidents
18:12:15  <Eddi|zuHause2> there were hardly any days that weren't like: "trams: 3, cars: 0"
18:12:39  <hylje>
18:13:25  <Kjetil> omfg
18:13:46  <peter1138> that's the same one
18:13:54  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r10059 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix (r10045): Pretend GRF is still in initialisation state when leaving reservation stage. This fixes action 7/9 tests for grfs that will be active.
18:14:29  <Wolf01> !
18:15:01  <Noldo> Wolf01: what is that?
18:15:01  <peter1138> that's just silly
18:15:13  <hylje> magic roundabout
18:16:45  <Wolf01> i'm wondering how it might look with diagonal roads
18:16:55  <hylje> a bit more like a ROUNDabout
18:17:26  <Wolf01> in fact, i should named it SQUAREabout
18:17:42  <Wolf01> *should have
18:18:50  <peter1138> yeah, shame roads are all 90 deg :(
18:18:57  <Belugas> for now...
18:19:04  <peter1138> ooh, plans ;)
18:19:12  <Belugas> me? no... why?
18:19:15  <Belugas> ;)
18:19:20  <Wolf01> yes, i'm looking at it too
18:19:49  <Belugas> :D
18:20:38  <hylje> just that we could have magic roundabouts
18:21:08  <Wolf01> i thought to kill this old road system and introduce something like rail system, but with more junctions, like: |- or |/ or |\
18:21:28  <hylje> merges!
18:21:41  <Wolf01> in substance a mix of roadpieces with railpieces
18:21:43  <hylje> multilevel junctions!
18:22:35  *** Wolf01 is now known as Wolf01|AWAY
18:33:35  <Eddi|zuHause2> cut the tiles in 4, and then allow placing each lane individually :)
18:34:39  *** Wolf01|AWAY is now known as Wolf01
18:34:52  <peter1138> no
18:34:57  <Wolf01> i thought this too
18:35:28  <Wolf01> so you could have 2 diagonal lanes in one tile
18:38:02  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm, i rather meant cut them in 4 diagonally, that way you get rid of the "two trackbits on one tile" issues for rails, too
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18:38:33  <portierbg1> good evening
18:38:38  <Wolf01> hello
18:38:45  <peter1138> hmm, can i loop mount a harddisk image?
18:39:04  <Wolf01> ?
18:39:10  <portierbg1> I was searching around the forum and have a question about the nightly edition of openttd
18:39:17  <Eddi|zuHause2> mount -o loop /what /wher
18:39:19  <Eddi|zuHause2> e
18:39:19  <portierbg1> Can somebody help me with it?
18:39:27  <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, that usually works
18:39:39  <ln-> Eddi|zuHause2: but that doesn't work for images of the whole hard disk, does it?
18:40:08  <Eddi|zuHause2> no, you have to fiddle around with the position of the start sector
18:40:15  <Eddi|zuHause2> of the partition
18:40:25  <Eddi|zuHause2> i have seen a tutorial on this one, somewhere
18:40:29  <portierbg1> When I start openttd it says your file is missong or corrupt
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18:41:01  <Wolf01> Barry, you need the original dat files
18:41:08  <Wolf01> *data
18:41:17  <Eddi|zuHause2> then take the file from your genuine ttd disk :)
18:41:20  <Barry> I have those installed on my usestick
18:41:30  <Barry> usbstick
18:41:39  <Wolf01> so unzip the nightly in that folder
18:41:50  <Barry> I did
18:42:16  <Wolf01> you must overwrite the old files
18:42:49  <Eddi|zuHause2> Barry: which files are in the "data" directory?
18:43:13  <Barry> Eddi : *.grf
18:43:51  <Eddi|zuHause2> there must be files like "trg1r.grf"
18:43:57  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause2: but it's a harddisc image, with partitions
18:44:30  <Barry> 2ccmap.grf
18:45:05  <Eddi|zuHause2> Barry: you need the files from original TTD cd
18:45:31  <Eddi|zuHause2> trg?r.grf and
18:45:57  <Wolf01> Barry, if the installed version works with no errors, you must extract the nightly in order to overwrite the installed files to get it work
18:45:58  <Eddi|zuHause2> peter1138: yes, i am searching for the howto i used a while ago
18:46:06  <Eddi|zuHause2> it is definitely possible
18:46:17  <peter1138> losetup . hmm..
18:49:33  <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, i think that program was involved... but i don't find the howto anymore
18:50:31  <Barry> Ok Wolf and Eddi I just download TTD again and installed again on my usbstick
18:50:31  <Eddi|zuHause2> losetup -o32256 /dev/loop0 /path/to/c.img
18:51:01  <Eddi|zuHause2> you just need the files from the data dir
18:51:12  <Eddi|zuHause2> copy them into the ottd data dir
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18:52:13  <Eddi|zuHause2> peter1138: where 32256 = 63*512 the probable location of the first partition
18:52:37  <Barry> Strange when I unzip de files there is no data dir
18:52:51  <Barry> but I see the *.grf files in the main dir
18:53:00  <Eddi|zuHause2> whatever...
18:53:11  <Eddi|zuHause2> might be DOS TTD?
18:53:23  <Wolf01> then unzip keeping the folders
18:53:32  <Eddi|zuHause2> or that...
18:53:46  <Barry> no windows version
18:53:56  <Wolf01> or open the zip file and drag&drop the files in their folders manually
18:53:58  <Eddi|zuHause2> doesn't matter... just copy the grf and cat files to the ottd data dir
18:54:16  <Eddi|zuHause2> and the gm files in the gm dir, if you want music
18:54:35  <Eddi|zuHause2> and read the readme!
18:54:45  <Eddi|zuHause2> it doesn't say that without reason :)
18:55:49  <peter1138> :o
18:55:59  <peter1138> 63*512??
18:56:10  <Barry> I did and it works :-)
18:56:24  <Barry> Now i have to find out about the trams :-0
18:56:48  <Wolf01>
18:58:14  <Barry> Is this version of Nightly an unofficial improved version of RC 0.5.2?
18:58:31  <Wolf01> is the official trunk version
18:58:57  <Wolf01> from where 0.x.x releases come out
19:01:10  <Barry> Ok thx Where do I need to install the tram files? In the Data dir?
19:02:10  <Wolf01> i suggest you to make a "newgrf" folder in the data dir
19:02:13  <Eddi|zuHause2> i have my newgrf files in subdirectories of data
19:03:00  <Eddi|zuHause2> then load them from the starting screen, it has a button "newgrf settings"
19:04:37  <Eddi|zuHause2> peter1138: replace 63 with whatever fdisk says the start sector of the partition is
19:04:41  <peter1138> yeah=
19:04:45  <peter1138> it said 1
19:04:51  <peter1138> i was using the wrong units, apparently
19:04:55  <Eddi|zuHause2> gnah my grammar is very german today
19:05:07  <Eddi|zuHause2> 512 is the sector size
19:06:38  <Eddi|zuHause2> might help
19:06:52  <ln-> remember to reset your altimeters before performing aerobatics;
19:07:04  <peter1138> waaa
19:07:14  <Eddi|zuHause2> just leave out the points that say "create xyz"
19:07:20  <peter1138> way faster than dosemu/dosbox (obviously, on the latter)
19:08:55  <Eddi|zuHause2> the only place when loopback might get slow is if the file is fractioned, otherwise it should be the (almost) same speed as direct access
19:09:56  <Barry> Ok thx guys I can now build trams are there any new tram grfs already? I only have the Serbian trams
19:10:08  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause2: heh, actually i'm playing with qemu
19:10:19  <peter1138> i had a qemu disk image, but no way of getting stuff on it
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19:10:57  <Eddi|zuHause2> there used to be unfinished versions of the german and the czech tram set out there
19:11:10  <Eddi|zuHause2> but i did not try any yet...
19:11:36  <Eddi|zuHause2> trams are no fun without articulated road vehicles and finsihed sets :)
19:12:47  <XeryusTC> Eddi|zuHause2: we've got git for the former
19:12:47  <peter1138> woo, fm synth emulation
19:12:50  <peter1138> hmm, slow :/
19:12:54  <hylje> articulated would be rather silly
19:13:01  <hylje> we'd not be far from trains on road
19:13:15  <XeryusTC> hylje: it's not silly
19:13:23  <peter1138> uk tram set uses articulation
19:13:29  <Sacro> :o
19:13:32  <Sacro> i want the UKTS
19:13:35  <Eddi|zuHause2> hylje: what exactly do you think trams are?=
19:13:46  <hylje> trains.. ON ROAD!
19:14:19  <Eddi|zuHause2> there are so called "truck trains" in australia
19:14:40  <Barry> truck trains?
19:14:44  <XeryusTC> road trains :P
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19:15:04  <Barry> Never seen we only have real trams in Amsterdam
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19:16:27  <Eddi|zuHause2>
19:17:54  <Barry> Better call it mammoettrucks
19:18:31  <Eddi|zuHause2> but i would expect that most vehicle sets will limit it to only 2 articulated parts for a truck
19:19:44  <Eddi|zuHause2> i.e. front part with engine and one trailer without engine
19:20:12  <Bjarni> they do have a problem with sharp turns... wouldn't go well with the OTTD world
19:21:07  <Eddi|zuHause2> trams usually consist of 3 parts here, sometimes 4
19:22:13  <Eddi|zuHause2>
19:23:25  <Eddi|zuHause2> <- one that consists of 4 articulated parts
19:25:31  <Bjarni> <-- browsing the web, I found this. It's NOT a tram. It's the railline between Otsu and Kyoto and they couldn't fit the tracks the last way to the station, so they put them on the road in a tram like way. However it's so much a railroad that every time it crosses a road intersection, then it activates a railroad crossing system
19:26:45  <Eddi|zuHause2> trams often get priority at signalled crossings here
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19:27:15  <Bjarni> but I guess it's not with bells and flashing red lights
19:27:33  <Eddi|zuHause2> no
19:28:00  <Bjarni> giving priority to trams and busses aren't that uncommon
19:28:01  <Eddi|zuHause2> but occasionally with andreas cross
19:28:13  <Bjarni> andreas cross?
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19:28:30  <Eddi|zuHause2> the same ones that are placed at level crossings
19:28:32  *** boekabart [] has joined #openttd
19:28:41  <Bjarni> ahh that one
19:30:25  <Eddi|zuHause2>
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19:31:25  <Eddi|zuHause2> btw. even at rail crossings the red flashing lights occasionally get replaced by normal red lights
19:32:05  *** HMage [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:35:29  <Bjarni> that sounds stupid
19:36:07  <Bjarni> however I noticed... I don't like the safety in that decision
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19:37:18  <Eddi|zuHause2> i think a constant red light is better than a flashing red light... some people don't consider the flashing light a real "stop" light like a constant red traffic light
19:38:32  <Bjarni> are you sure?
19:39:22  <Bjarni> I have seen cars passing red lights, but never activated railroad crossings
19:39:42  * TrueBrain gives Bjarni a cookie for worst argument ever
19:39:49  <Wolf01> i always thought that blinking lights get people's attention
19:39:56  <Bjarni> me too
19:40:02  <TrueBrain> I only react on the sound
19:40:26  <hylje> trains are scarier than other cars
19:40:27  <Eddi|zuHause2> exactly, people think it is "just" a warning light, not a stop light
19:40:53  <Wolf01> i don't care, if i want to cross.. i cross ;)
19:41:25  <Bjarni> I will remember that statement if I ever hit anybody
19:41:38  <Wolf01> XD
19:41:51  <TrueBrain> I seen enough people passing closed rail crossings
19:41:55  <TrueBrain> even by car
19:42:56  <Wolf01> i see every day people overtaking me, which i'm stopped at the red traffic light
19:43:32  <Bjarni> this is one of the reasons why we consider Italy a dangerous country to drive in
19:44:02  <peter1138>
19:44:07  <peter1138> ^ weird road layout
19:44:19  <Wolf01> oh, another thing you must know, if you want to go in south italy you should keep in mind that: yellow is only a color, green mean "attention" red mean "attention"
19:46:03  <Bjarni> peter1138: we have a layout kind of like that here. It can't be made differently thought because it's inside a town. Also the cross is controlled with traffic lights connected to the rail crossing
19:48:51  <peter1138>
19:48:55  <peter1138> 'my' local station, heh
19:48:56  <Eddi|zuHause2> "Straßenbahnen auf besonderem Bahnkörper, der nicht innerhalb des Verkehrsraums einer öffentlichen Straße hegt, ist in der Regel durch Aufstellung von Andreaskreuzen der Vorrang zu geben. An solchen Bahnübergängen ist schon bei mäßigem Verkehr auf der querenden Straße oder wenn auf dieser Straße schneller als 50 km/h gefahren wird, die Anbringung einer straßenbahnabhängigen, in der Regel zweifarbigen Lichtzeichenanlage (vgl.
19:48:56  <Eddi|zuHause2> § 37 Abs. 2 Nr. 3) oder von Schranken zu erwägen.", from the VwV-StVO
19:48:59  <peter1138> and 'my' local trains...
19:50:04  <Eddi|zuHause2> it says that tram lines that run on separate routes should have yellow/red traffic lights
19:50:46  <Eddi|zuHause2> and these lights should be triggered by approaching trams
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19:52:15  <Eddi|zuHause2> peter1138: site does not work...
19:52:33  <Eddi|zuHause2> (in konqueror...)
19:53:48  <Bjarni> it works in firefox
19:53:56  <skidd13> Nope
19:54:55  <skidd13> seems not to work in germany
19:55:26  <Bjarni> it's likely blocked due to fear of political propaganda or something xD
19:55:54  <peter1138> ah well, it's not that interesting
19:56:29  <Barry> Eddi and Wolf thx for your help. I will beback on this channel. Need to install al my new grfs and so on :-0
19:56:33  <Bjarni> it's a platform and a few DMU roofs
19:56:54  <Wolf01> and this is our great station:,13.001794&spn=0.002495,0.005665&t=k&z=18&om=1 :D
19:57:01  <Bjarni> somehow looking at DMU roofs aren't the most interesting thing to do ;)
19:57:12  <peter1138> you can see the side too :P
19:57:36  <Bjarni> with those DMUs, it makes little difference :P
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19:57:51  <Bjarni> EMUs on the other hand...
19:58:06  <peter1138> we dream of electricised rail, around here
19:58:16  <Bjarni> why?
19:58:26  <peter1138> cos it's all fecking DMUs ;(
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19:58:51  <peter1138> the line is electrified until half-way from london
19:59:02  <peter1138> and that is with 4th rail...
19:59:11  <peter1138> the track is shared with the london underground
19:59:24  <Bjarni> putting voltage on rails sucks
19:59:37  <Sacro> heh, its all dmus around here too
19:59:41  <Sacro> until you get to the ECML
19:59:49  <Bjarni> it's a far better solution to put high voltage in overhead catenary
19:59:50  <hylje> fourth rail? :o
19:59:57  <peter1138> hylje, yes
20:00:00  <Bjarni> and really high voltage like 25 kV
20:00:06  <Eddi|zuHause2> this is so weird... if i click on that google maps link, it tells me that my browser is not supported, but if i go directly on "", it works
20:00:08  <peter1138> Bjarni: not very practical in tunnels
20:00:27  <peter1138> london underground tunnels that is
20:00:28  <hylje> hence underground systems tend to be 3rd rail
20:00:47  <peter1138> nah, 4th rail's where it's at ;)
20:00:49  <Bjarni> hylje: they use rails for 0V and then they have two rails for two different voltages (4 in total). Makes sense when you know how to make high power DC engines
20:01:05  <peter1138> i'm sure they'd use diesel on the underground if it wasn't for the fumes...
20:01:19  <Bjarni> heh, they used to use steam
20:01:26  <peter1138> yeah
20:01:37  <Sacro> diesel on the underground?
20:01:38  <Bjarni> for more than 30 years
20:01:39  <Sacro> hehe
20:01:42  <hylje> steam!
20:01:44  <Sacro> they do have battery trains though
20:02:03  <peter1138> mind you, the london underground used to come out to where i live now, and further
20:02:10  <peter1138> back in the '60s i think
20:02:17  <hylje> :o
20:02:20  <peter1138> that's like 60 miles or so out of london
20:02:25  <Bjarni> batteries sucks though... It's far from an ideal solution since they take ages to charge and the efficiency could do with an improvement
20:02:37  <hylje> degradation
20:03:49  <Bjarni> <peter1138> Bjarni: not very practical in tunnels <-- this is the UK problem. They made their tunnels way too small. When we needed catenary, the tunnels were big enough to just add it inside
20:04:08  <peter1138> in an underground system?
20:04:16  <peter1138> i don't mean normal tunnels :)
20:04:17  <Bjarni> well, almost. The stuff to hold the wire isn't standard, but some smaller ones
20:04:21  <peter1138> i see
20:04:27  <hylje> catenary tunnels are hueg
20:04:39  <Bjarni> I'm talking about the the tunnel below Copenhagen
20:05:04  <Bjarni> <-- this tunnel
20:05:22  <Eddi|zuHause2> one of the early lines in southern germany that got electrificated, the dug out 20cm from beneath the rail to be able to add catenary
20:05:24  <Bjarni> naturally when talking about the catenary, I bring up a picture of a steam train xD
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20:07:52  <Bjarni> I heard a story about an English line. They replaced the tracks (they were old) and they started the DMUs again. Everything was fine until like a month later or so when a steam train passed though a tunnel on the line. Since they used to fit perfectly, they were in high speed, but the engine was a bit higher than the DMUs and the new track was a bit higher than the old one, so the engine lost both funnel and roof :o
20:08:22  <Bjarni> talk about how close they used to drive to the ceiling in the tunnel o_O
20:08:56  <Bjarni> it's actually bad to make so small tunnels for steam. Where should the smoke go?
20:08:58  <Eddi|zuHause2> i have been in london... the underground train was exactly in the shape of the tunnel...
20:09:27  <Eddi|zuHause2> there was no space left
20:10:42  <peter1138> yeah
20:10:47  <peter1138> unless it's a cut&shut tunnel
20:10:58  <peter1138> like the circle line
20:11:15  <peter1138> then it feels like a regular station but at night
20:11:24  <Bjarni> <-- steam engine from the London underground
20:11:55  <Eddi|zuHause2> i think it was a train of the black line, whatever that is called
20:12:08  <peter1138> looks a bit big to fit :p
20:12:18  <Bjarni> yeah
20:12:25  <Bjarni> I'm not sure it can fit on all of them
20:12:37  <peter1138> might've been on the non-underground bit, i suppose
20:12:54  <Bjarni> I think I have seen a drawing of this type driving underground
20:13:13  <peter1138> altough it's not very sunken there
20:13:17  <ln-> has anyone been to elephant & castle?
20:13:48  <Bjarni> it has a condenser, indicating that it's build to drive in a location where it should try to generate as little smoke as possible
20:14:31  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause2: nothern
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20:14:34  <Sacro> *northern
20:15:28  <peter1138> Bjarni: iirc the metropolitan is one of the cut & shut ones, where it's underground
20:15:30  <Bjarni> I always forget the colours of the lines in Copenhagen. I remember them by name
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20:15:43  <peter1138> i could always just look it up on that LUL website
20:16:00  <Sacro> ln-: there's no elephant or castle
20:16:04  <Sacro> i was much disappointed
20:16:41  <Bjarni> wikipedia claims that it's "Cut and cover"
20:16:58  <Bjarni> it would only make sense to do that on the one closest to the surface though
20:17:08  <peter1138> errrr
20:17:10  <peter1138> that's what i meant
20:17:18  <peter1138> and yes, it's basically under a road
20:17:42  <Eddi|zuHause2> i have a big problem in remembering names
20:17:51  <Eddi|zuHause2> i have no problem with colours or numbers
20:19:16  <Bjarni> funny enough the real names aren't used much in Copenhagen. They do use a line letter though (line A, line B, line C... you get the picture)
20:19:46  <Bjarni> hmm... thinking about it, I think I remember the colours after all
20:19:51  <ln-> Sacro: indeed not.
20:20:10  <ln-> and the place in general was very pathetic.
20:20:41  <Bjarni> I have no idea what that elephant castle place is
20:20:50  <Bjarni> but now I don't want to go there ;)
20:20:52  <hylje> i no the colors of the local metro lines
20:21:14  <ln-> Bjarni: it's the terminal station of the brown underground line.
20:21:44  <Bjarni> ahh
20:22:16  <ln-> brown = bakerloo line
20:22:39  <Bjarni> <--- I see what you mean by tunnel shaped trains
20:22:54  <Bjarni> you can also see the 4 rail system in this picture
20:23:53  <Eddi|zuHause2> here, the tram lines are 1 to 12, bus lines are 21-44 (not all numbers taken), school bus lines are 50-59, and night lines are 91-99
20:24:23  <Eddi|zuHause2> bus lines that leave the city are usually 300+
20:25:03  <hylje> why does the tube have gaps? :s
20:25:33  <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, at the station i was the tunnel was even tighter around the train
20:25:58  <ln-> why not?
20:27:02  <Sacro> you need to leave room at the side for signals
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20:28:12  <Bjarni> when the trains move though the tunnels, they push a whole lot of air in front of them. It would actually be easier for them to move if the tunnels were bigger so they could push the air into the sides of the train instead of pushing it in front of them. This makes the wind blow on the platforms when a train is approaching
20:31:16  <ln-> yes it does.
20:31:20  <Sacro> no
20:31:23  <ln-> yes
20:31:25  <hylje> maybe
20:31:25  <Sacro> they have lots of tunnels to the ground
20:31:30  <Sacro> to shove the air up
20:31:36  <hylje> and down
20:31:52  <hylje> the train creates a vacuum behind it, no? :p
20:32:10  <ln-> well clearly the trains do make the wind blow on platforms, regardless of sacro's opinion.
20:32:17  <Sacro> it's not that bad
20:32:23  <Sacro> at least i didn't think so
20:32:24  <ln-> Bjarni: have you been there?
20:32:41  <peter1138> Bjarni: see what i mean about no room for catenary? ;)
20:33:28  <peter1138> and yes, the trains do make the wind blow
20:33:44  <peter1138> you don't notice it much cos they normally stop...
20:34:16  <Belugas> #Hey, Pinky... Here comes the train...
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20:34:23  <Bjarni> <ln-> Bjarni: have you been there? <-- no. I was going to London once, but uni came in the way :s
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20:35:10  <hylje> given air is replaced with water, a train could not enter a tunnel as seen in the Tube
20:35:44  <peter1138> what?
20:35:51  <Bjarni> <peter1138> Bjarni: see what i mean about no room for catenary? ;) <-- yeah. I know that issue, so the powered rails is an acceptable workaround. However it really sucks for outdoor driving, specially at longer distances. DC catenary sucks at long distance in general, but specially 3rd/4th rail systems because they use such a low voltage
20:36:28  <peter1138> yeah
20:36:35  <peter1138> 4th rail is +420V and -210V
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20:36:58  <Eddi|zuHause2> hylje: under water, a train can hardly move regardless of tunnel
20:37:06  <hylje> Eddi|zuHause2: that's beside the point
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20:41:17  <Sacro>
20:41:20  <Sacro> now MB is doing it
20:42:11  <Eddi|zuHause2> rofl :p
20:46:12  <Bjarni> I can't remember that any OTTD person posted anything like that in the patch forums
20:46:52  <Eddi|zuHause2> you could report the post to a moderator for trolling (or similar)
20:47:51  <SpComb> well, you could argue that he's just suggesting alternatives, but it's more likely that there's some kind of trollish intent behind it
20:48:05  <Bjarni> at one time I did post something in a "which is better?" topic. I just stated that OpenTTD is better because it supports PPC natively and because of that can run without a slow and expensive emulator. I also stated that this isn't a valid argument for windows though
20:48:05  <peter1138> Bjarni: plenty have
20:48:10  <SpComb> although posting "just use TTD Patch" in the OpenTTD forums like that isn't exactly very sane
20:48:11  <Wolf01> and so is me which complaint about ttdpatch eh?
20:52:56  <Belugas> answered...
20:52:58  <Belugas> bitch
20:53:57  <Wolf01> whoa, great work Belugas :O
20:54:08  <peter1138> Belugas: shit, now your secret work is out in the open ;(
20:54:24  <Belugas> not really a secret ;)
20:54:36  <peter1138> btw, you're table breaking, hehe
20:54:55  <Wolf01> how those oil wells work? are you able to build between them?
20:55:44  <SpComb> just rewrite OpenTTD in python already
20:56:39  <Eddi|zuHause2> Wolf01: sure, just like you can build on the cut out tiles of regular forests (they are not in rectangular form)
20:57:14  <Eddi|zuHause2> most other industries aren't either
20:57:27  <Wolf01> i got that kind of forest when i was playing with the station drag&drop removal code :P
20:58:12  <Sacro> SpComb: there is no advantage to rewriting in python
20:58:24  <Wolf01> i would like random shaped forests :P
20:58:40  <XeryusTC> Wolf01: go code a newgrf, im sure that can do it :P
20:58:44  <SpComb> Sacro: you'd get features faster
20:59:08  <Belugas> Wolf01, they do work, although they are not yet animated
20:59:28  <Belugas> peter1138, i made it fast and quick, so no fancy layout ;)
20:59:40  <Wolf01> i tried to understand the grf actions, but is something beyond my knowledge
20:59:48  <XeryusTC> they're quite easy
21:00:00  <Bjarni> only if you understand them
21:00:02  <Belugas> Eddi|zuHause2 : most of them are available, just didn't put everything there
21:00:55  <Belugas> Wolf01, you cannot have "random" layout, but yuo can build many different layouts, and they will be chosen randomly
21:00:57  <Eddi|zuHause2> i meant normal industries, not new industries
21:00:58  <Belugas> so gogo grf
21:01:15  <Sacro> gogo gadget grf?
21:01:16  <Belugas> ok Eddi|zuHause2
21:01:46  <Eddi|zuHause2> as in "building between industry tiles" is not a new feature
21:02:26  <XeryusTC> there is a industry in toyland that allows you to build under an arc IIRC
21:04:56  <Eddi|zuHause2> you can't exactly blame anyone for not knowing toyland industries very well :p
21:05:31  <peter1138> heh
21:05:34  <Wolf01> my next game will be in toyland
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21:06:37  <De_Ghost> what's building between industires?
21:07:08  <Wolf01> building between the pieces of the same industry
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21:08:15  <De_Ghost> that makes no sense to me
21:08:18  <De_Ghost> is that english?
21:08:59  <peter1138> Wolf01: ARGGGGH
21:09:11  <peter1138> Wolf01: i started up a toyland game. it makes no sense ;(
21:09:15  <Eddi|zuHause2> De_Ghost: [industry tile] [empty tile] [industry tile]
21:10:09  <peter1138> XeryusTC: which industry? i can't see it :/
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21:10:26  <Eddi|zuHause2> and you should excuse Wolf01's english... he's italian, or stupid (or both...)
21:10:43  <XeryusTC> peter1138: dunno, was very long ago that i've seen it
21:11:06  <peter1138> the sugar mine is high up but you can't go through it
21:12:07  <peter1138> hehe, the bubble generator probably contains the most animation ever in ttd :p
21:12:51  <Wolf01> XeryusTC, are you sure it didn't is a little village? all is so similar in toyland :P
21:13:28  <Belugas> actually, peter1138, i think it is the sugar mine.  96 different animation steps
21:13:32  <Belugas> but i could be wrong...
21:13:43  <XeryusTC> Wolf01: it is possible
21:14:12  <Belugas> but agreed, toyland has the most animated industries of all climates
21:14:13  <peter1138> 96! :o
21:14:25  <Wolf01> or maybe 2 close plastic fountains
21:14:26  <peter1138> hmm, yeah, you might be right
21:17:05  <XeryusTC> i think it was some toy thing :P
21:17:15  <XeryusTC> it had a conveyor belt or sth
21:17:47  <Wolf01> the toy factory
21:18:14  <Wolf01> ok, this little search of industries on toyland made me blind...
21:19:40  <Wolf01> 'night
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21:22:12  <peter1138> you know
21:22:20  <peter1138> probably the AI will do really well in toyland :p
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21:23:06  <Bjarni> why would it do well in toyland when it sucks everywhere else?
21:23:16  <peter1138> exactly
21:23:53  <Bjarni> I don't like the AI anyway
21:24:06  <Bjarni> somebody could change it and I wouldn't notice
21:24:11  <Bjarni> it's always off
21:24:17  <peter1138> well
21:24:21  <peter1138> i think someone has :p
21:24:31  <peter1138> it's certainly crapper than it used to be
21:26:24  <Eddi|zuHause2> apart from building totally crappy layouts, the AI almost never went bankrupt in my TTO games
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21:26:40  <Eddi|zuHause2> but i haven't played against AI in at least 10 years now :p
21:30:22  <Bjarni> I think we kind of messed with it... I mean we modified commands and stuff and it could have made it even worse
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21:37:22  <stillunknown> Bjarni: some testing was done, the cache patch doesn't seem to cause desyncs or asserts
21:39:04  <Ailure> [23:21] <Bjarni> why would it do well in toyland when it sucks everywhere else?
21:39:20  <Ailure> Chris Sawyer favorite climate was toyland and he tweaked the AI for it?
21:39:22  <Ailure> ;P
21:40:19  <stillunknown> Bjarni: at this point it should get merged soon or it'll have to wait a few weeks at least
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21:59:00  <Bjarni>  <stillunknown> Bjarni: at this point it should get merged soon or it'll have to wait a few weeks at least <-- why?
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22:53:18  <kaan> goodevening
22:54:19  <TrueBrain> hi kaan
22:56:19  <kaan> hmmm, maybe i should make rc1 of BuildOTTD today
22:56:28  <kaan> no bugs in a long time
22:56:32  <TrueBrain> good to hear :)
22:57:39  <kaan> Yup, i think ill do it :)
23:01:54  <ln-> how was the party?
23:03:11  <TrueBrain> good :)
23:03:28  <kaan> oh, now i know what is missing for 1.0, a proper readme file :P
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23:19:21  <ln-> any foreign guests?
23:19:52  <TrueBrain> nopuh
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