Log for #openttd on 12th June 2007:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:00:06  <Belugas> like the power plant...
00:00:23  <Belugas> do you think tiles woth sparkles can process   coal?
00:00:26  <Belugas> i doubt.
00:00:32  <Belugas> same for refinery
00:00:35  <Smoovious> yeah... dumping coal at the business office doesn't do the power station much good
00:00:44  <Belugas> yup
00:00:51  <Belugas> that is exactly the point
00:01:03  <KristjanS> are you saying they drop oil in the desert?
00:01:17  <Smoovious> no, only along the coastlines :P
00:02:20  <KristjanS> i am not talking about building oil refinery.... :-D
00:02:47  <Eddi|zuHause3> nobody did tha
00:02:48  <Eddi|zuHause3> t
00:02:59  <KristjanS> you seem like you do
00:03:14  <KristjanS> because you say that the 'tiles' need to process oil
00:03:30  <Eddi|zuHause3> the industry is distributed over several tiles
00:03:35  <Eddi|zuHause3> not all of them accept oil
00:03:44  <Eddi|zuHause3> in fact, only very few of them do
00:03:55  <Eddi|zuHause3> you have to have those tiles in the station coverage
00:04:26  <KristjanS> never seen the radius for accepting tiles to be 1 though before
00:04:43  <Belugas> a hint... only the tile with the tower and the flame do accept oil
00:04:44  <Smoovious> it is a radius around the acceting tiles
00:04:48  <Belugas> that's it
00:04:51  <Smoovious> accepting
00:05:10  <KristjanS> ah 8 - )
00:05:26  <KristjanS> now it makes sense
00:05:36  <Eddi|zuHause3> it made sense all the time...
00:06:56  <KristjanS> no, becuase you didn't tell me that only the tower and the flame accept oil ;-)
00:07:01  <KristjanS> because*
00:07:12  <Smoovious> he told you to use the ? tool to see which tiles accept oil
00:07:29  <Eddi|zuHause3> we told you that some tiles don't accept oil
00:07:37  <KristjanS> i know that
00:07:43  <Eddi|zuHause3> and we told you to check that
00:07:49  <Smoovious> most people can handle that...
00:08:03  <Eddi|zuHause3> and you did not do that
00:08:07  <KristjanS> yes, but i didn't say that this is weird
00:08:12  <Smoovious> so now you get spanked
00:08:17  <KristjanS> yes i did it xD
00:08:27  <KristjanS> i wanted to know why it is only 1 square on one side
00:08:43  <Eddi|zuHause3> it is not 1 square
00:08:54  <Eddi|zuHause3> it is 4 squares from the tile that accepts oil
00:09:02  <KristjanS> it was 1 square from the refinery building
00:09:11  <Smoovious> the building doesn't accept oil
00:09:16  <Eddi|zuHause3> but the building does not matter
00:09:21  <Eddi|zuHause3> we said that
00:09:45  <KristjanS> :-D yes, but i thought you meant something else
00:09:55  <Smoovious> the buildings don't matter... only the tiles that accept are what matters
00:10:26  <KristjanS> i am sorry for not understanding what you said ;^)
00:10:49  <eekee> Eddi|zuHause3: renaming did help after all, I had to free up a name the game thought appropriate (Tatminster East)
00:11:40  <Eddi|zuHause3> err... yes... freeing "west" would not make much sense when building east
00:11:49  <Eddi|zuHause3> but there are a lot of generic names
00:12:27  <Eddi|zuHause3> but remember, the number of custom names is also limited
00:13:58  <KristjanS> is there a jesus in openttd?
00:14:09  <KristjanS> my friend needs a jesus to help him
00:16:51  <Eddi|zuHause3> i have not spotted one yet
00:17:52  <Digitalfox> You may speack with me, since i have Jesus in my name...
00:18:03  <Belugas> KristjanS, you might find one, it is called ;)
00:18:34  <KristjanS> i forwarded your messages in order to help him get enlightened
00:19:06  <Digitalfox> Belugas what have you done... I was thinking of getting rich... :(
00:25:33  <KristjanS> by the name of the purple frog
00:25:41  <KristjanS> my friend has more cash than i do
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00:27:55  <KristjanS> no wonder, one of my trains had a wrong schedule
00:27:59  <KristjanS> and i have 2 trains
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00:32:32  <Belugas> Digitalfox : sorry ;)
00:32:39  <Belugas> next time, rect faster ^_^
00:32:42  <Belugas> react
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00:43:10  <Digitalfox> Belugas: We split the money next time ;)
00:50:08  <Belugas> granted :D
00:50:18  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r10108 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_industries.cpp newgrf_industries.h):
00:50:18  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: implement variable 0x60 (Get industry tile ID at offset) for industries.
00:50:18  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: It is exposed for for industry tiles who will reuse it too, for variable 0x62.
00:53:39  <KristjanS> i stopped my train in a station
00:53:54  <KristjanS> it say's it's stopping and that it's going at 20 km/h
00:53:58  <KristjanS> while it's stopped already
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00:55:40  <UndernotBuilder> what about making the trams topic a general announcement one?
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03:17:27  <KristjanS> what key to close all windows? :p
03:17:38  <KristjanS> ah insert :p
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03:41:01  <KristjanS> items no more bring more money the further you transport them?
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05:41:19  <Phazorx> .
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05:59:29  <stillunknown> Truebrain: How much faster is the rendering now?
06:02:23  <Phazorx> stillunknown:
06:03:44  <stillunknown> Phazorx: Is that the cpu usage?
06:04:08  <stillunknown> Or reduction?
06:04:23  <Phazorx> spu usage
06:04:55  <stillunknown> 5% cpu usage, that seems very low/
06:05:39  <Phazorx> it's actualy flips between 3 and 5
06:05:45  <stillunknown> Too low imo.
06:05:53  <Phazorx> i am surprised too
06:05:53  <peter1138> :o
06:06:02  <Phazorx> but that game is weird in a sense
06:06:07  <Phazorx> lots of tracks and trains are longer
06:06:14  <Phazorx> longest of all games
06:06:16  <peter1138> me too. i didn't get that amount of improvement
06:06:32  <Phazorx> peter1138: testing teqnique makes a lot of difference too
06:06:42  <stillunknown> peter1138: btw, i pretty much done with my own hashmap thingie, just to let you know
06:06:45  <Phazorx> that is done with no animation and sounds
06:06:58  <Phazorx> as well as viewpoint not having any action on screen
06:07:07  <Phazorx> since sprite managing takes a lot of power
06:07:31  <Phazorx> so this is pretty much only pathfining and collision cycles only
06:07:58  <stillunknown> There is much more at work, than just that.
06:08:38  <Phazorx> well... i have a feeling these two are largest consumer in terms of CPU power
06:08:46  <Phazorx> since it is per vehivle per tick
06:08:56  <stillunknown> TrainLocoHandler is a a big load as well
06:08:56  <Phazorx> rest is event based or pert game timeunit
06:09:39  <Phazorx> well my numbers are not absolute, however they are taken in same situation for all tested cases
06:09:55  <Phazorx> whcih emans they can be compared against each other and represent state of things on my platform
06:10:38  <stillunknown> Either you have a blazingly fast cpu, or something is wrong.
06:11:07  <stillunknown> Also keep in mind that rendering stuff has been improved in the last few revs.
06:11:48  <peter1138> not a great improvement
06:12:01  <peter1138> most of the reason for those changes are code separation
06:12:06  <peter1138> *is
06:12:16  <peter1138> or something. my english went wrong there :o
06:13:58  <Phazorx> rendfering as in graphics?
06:14:04  <peter1138> yes
06:14:12  <peter1138> which you ruled out :)
06:14:12  <Phazorx> stillunknown: CPU is clocked t-bred 2100+
06:14:20  <stillunknown> peter1138: first version of my patch,
06:14:34  <Phazorx> yeah for the test cases screen is pointed at water in corner of the map
06:14:49  <Phazorx> there is nothing moving on screen and animation and full details are disabled
06:15:33  <Phazorx> the aim was trully tests performance of logic part rather than anything else
06:16:11  <peter1138>
06:17:33  <stillunknown> 6 bits is a bit low
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21:21:17  <dihedral> i bet
21:21:36  <dihedral> but do you think the data is good for finding out where the problem might lie?
21:21:36  <Rubidium> didn't crash for me; can you reproduce it yourself?
21:21:55  <dihedral> i could load the savegame
21:22:07  <dihedral> which autosave do you want me to load?
21:23:10  <Rubidium> the 17, because 18 is most likely made too close to the crash (same date)
21:23:23  <Rubidium> although, when 18 crashes immediately, that would be a result too
21:24:05  <dihedral> then i shall start 18 first :-)
21:24:21  <Rubidium> are you using autopilot?
21:24:27  <dihedral> nope
21:25:07  <dihedral> loaded
21:25:20  <Rubidium> in the dedicated server I hope ;)
21:25:23  <dihedral>
21:25:26  <dihedral> sure thing
21:25:44  <dihedral> 1946-07-02
21:25:46  <Rubidium> it either crashes in like 10 seconds, or it's already too late
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21:26:00  <dihedral> right... then it's too late
21:26:02  <Rubidium> the crash.sav is from 1946-07-01 IIRC
21:26:11  <Rubidium> so that's when the crash happened
21:26:16  <dihedral> that save game is a few days old
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21:26:29  <dihedral> as you can see when looking at the index of
21:27:31  <dihedral> forget autosave17
21:27:36  <dihedral> that's a diff game
21:27:47  <dihedral> i ran a newgame between 17 and 18
21:27:52  <dihedral> as you could tell by the dates
21:28:07  <dihedral> autosave17 is from 1955-01
21:29:14  <dihedral> the game starts in 1946
21:29:20  <Rubidium> oh, so it's unreproducable... how nice
21:29:28  <dihedral> lucky you
21:29:38  <dihedral> but then it looks like it's after the server restarts
21:30:22  <dihedral> loading 17 and running newgame
21:30:34  <dihedral> lets see what happens when it hits july then :-)
21:30:49  <Rubidium> just make a savegame a month of so before july
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21:31:53  <dihedral> if quateryearly is set, i dont get why the first savegame is in july!
21:32:50  <Rubidium> because you most likely set biannually
21:33:43  <dihedral> true
21:33:46  <dihedral> shoot
21:34:04  <dihedral> that would also explain the 8 min interval of the creation date of those save games :-P
21:38:07  <dihedral> how do you know 18 is from the time it crashed?
21:38:56  <Rubidium> crash.sav and autosave18.sav where of about the same data IIRC
21:40:00  <dihedral> yeah - but about 6 days apart
21:40:25  <dihedral> crash.sav is from 07-Jun-2007 21:20
21:40:38  <dihedral> and autosave18.sav from 12-Jun-2007 18:49
21:41:00  <dihedral> ok - not 6 days... still days apart
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21:57:10  <dihedral> reproduced with autosave18.sav
21:57:18  <dihedral> just let it run for some time
21:57:31  <dihedral> i shall turn of screen so i can keep the output
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22:01:57  <Rubidium> dihedral: how much is some time?
22:02:20  <dihedral> perhaps 5 mins
22:02:28  <dihedral> must be less than 8!
22:02:43  <dihedral> so still in 1946
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22:10:12  <dihedral> Floating point exception
22:10:21  <Rubidium> huh?
22:10:28  <dihedral> in 1946-12
22:10:34  <dihedral> have a savegame from 1946-11
22:10:57  <dihedral>
22:11:36  <dihedral> just before that a dbg: [NET][UDP] Queried from << hope it has nothing to do with client requests !!
22:11:50  <Rubidium> it shouldn't have to do with that
22:12:50  <dihedral> well - have i at least given you reproducable stuff?
22:13:02  <Rubidium> I hope
22:13:32  <Rubidium> have to compile 0.5 on my (slow) server as I'm running a profile on my main computer which takes more time that I hoped
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22:14:12  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: maedhros * r10122 /trunk/src/ (economy.cpp functions.h misc.cpp roadveh_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: Add a CountBitsSet function and use it to replace some less efficient loops.
22:14:52  <dihedral> you want ssh to my server?
22:15:00  <dihedral> got 0.5.2 running there already
22:15:07  <Rubidium> nah, not needed
22:15:15  <dihedral> just running the last savegame with debug level 6
22:16:50  <dihedral> no additional info
22:17:13  <Rubidium> but it crashed again?
22:17:19  <dihedral> yep
22:17:31  <dihedral> with the bug.sav
22:17:42  <dihedral> that is a savegame from 1946-11-02
22:17:52  <dihedral> crash is sometime after 1946-12-04
22:18:05  <dihedral> some time = shortley
22:18:24  <dihedral> again with Floating point exception
22:19:15  <Rubidium> that's strange as we don't use any FP except for map generation AFAIK
22:19:43  <Eddi|zuHause2> something in YAPF used to use FP
22:19:52  <dihedral> crash is in 1946-12-18
22:19:58  <dihedral> it reaches that day
22:20:04  <dihedral> and then it crashed
22:20:16  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause2: it can't be YAPF
22:20:21  <Eddi|zuHause2> might have been a debug feature...
22:20:27  <dihedral> there is nothing to be using yapf
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22:21:27  <Eddi|zuHause2> errr... was the ping timeout increased?
22:21:40  <Eddi|zuHause2> i thought it used to be 480 seconds
22:22:06  <Rubidium> I think so
22:22:44  <dihedral> where does the setting get set?
22:23:22  <Rubidium> oops, compiled the 0.5 binary with the wrong settings :(
22:23:38  <dihedral> :-)
22:23:42  <Eddi|zuHause2> ping timeout is a setting of the IRC server, dihedral... totally unrelated to your problem :)
22:23:50  <dihedral> shame
22:24:09  <dihedral> if it was me causing the prob that would have been solvable a lot faster :-)
22:24:16  <Rubidium> 2 weeks of depchecking later it starts to compile
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22:27:43  <Rubidium> luckily compiling with (full) debugging is faster than compiling "release" grade binaries
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22:28:24  <Eddi|zuHause2> it's easy to be faster if you skip optimisations :)
22:30:04  <Wolf01> 'night
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22:31:07  <dihedral> anyhow - i shall hit the rack
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22:31:32  * rack hits himself
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22:31:42  <dihedral> good night guys
22:31:53  <Rubidium> night
22:31:58  <dihedral> hope the save game gets you somewhere with that crash
22:32:05  <dihedral> please let me know :-)
22:32:13  * dihedral is curious :-)
22:32:20  * Rubidium too
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22:38:20  <Phazorx> peter?
22:38:28  <Phazorx> got another save for ya to test
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22:45:29  <peter1138> hmm?
22:45:32  <peter1138> for what?
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22:47:28  <Phazorx> testing hash
22:47:50  <Phazorx> i got ~50% load here woth 104M
22:48:07  <Phazorx> same PC that has 4% laod at EvsL
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23:07:07  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: bjarni * r10123 /trunk/src/video/ -Fix r10121: the 8 bpp cocoa video driver works again
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23:10:58  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10124 /trunk/src/video/ -Fix r10123: fix the OSX video driver properly
23:11:22  * Eddi|zuHause2 gets popcorn and watches the commit wars
23:11:30  <TrueBrain> we don't have wars
23:12:51  <Eddi|zuHause2> so what do you call it?
23:13:16  <TrueBrain> Bjarni in an overenthousiastic mood :) I send him some things to test, which he commited :p Shit happens
23:14:31  <Eddi|zuHause2> and the moral of the story? :p
23:14:44  <TrueBrain> make clear when you are sending people test-things :)
23:14:50  <TrueBrain> don't send Bjarni things at a late hour
23:14:54  <TrueBrain> don't send things at a late hour
23:15:00  <TrueBrain> tie your shoes before leaving the house
23:15:06  <TrueBrain> eat food at regular hours
23:15:14  <TrueBrain> don't type rm -rf / as root
23:15:25  <Bjarni> specially not to people, who are busy doing other stuff, but decides to look at a failure to execute problem since it's urgent
23:15:33  <Eddi|zuHause2> don't eat yellow snow?
23:15:40  <glx> that too :)
23:15:41  <TrueBrain> Bjarni: urgent only for those who use OSX ;)
23:15:47  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause2: for sure, don't eat yellow snow :)
23:15:58  <Bjarni> how about green show?
23:16:01  <Bjarni> or red
23:16:16  <Bjarni> <TrueBrain> Bjarni: urgent only for those who use OSX ;) <-- those are the most important users ;)
23:16:24  <Eddi|zuHause2> i have never seen green snow...
23:16:27  <Bjarni> at least when it comes to stuff that I have to look at
23:16:31  <TrueBrain> I did see red snow
23:16:34  <TrueBrain> nasty I can tell you
23:17:09  <Bjarni> the snow can be coloured red by sand from Sahara... the wind can take it all the way to Denmark, so I presume that it can take it to Germany and NL as well
23:17:26  <Eddi|zuHause2> i think i heard the line "don't eat yellow snow" the first time on the bundys
23:17:54  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause2: most likely me too :p
23:18:05  <TrueBrain> and in the class-room of course many more times
23:21:35  <TrueBrain> so, what's next.....
23:21:37  <TrueBrain> ah, yes yes
23:22:29  <Eddi|zuHause2> the same thing as every night :)
23:23:32  <TrueBrain> TAKE OVER THE WORLD!
23:23:35  <TrueBrain> I am Brain
23:23:38  <TrueBrain> that makes you Pinky
23:24:01  * Bjarni feels bad for Eddi|zuHause2
23:24:09  <Eddi|zuHause2> i think we discussed that before :p
23:24:41  <Eddi|zuHause2> of course i could act like pinky, but that does not mean i would identify with him :p
23:25:02  <TrueBrain> too bad :p
23:26:09  <Eddi|zuHause2> actually, that would be a name for DorpsGek :p
23:26:30  <TrueBrain> Pinky.. lol
23:26:34  <TrueBrain> I kind of like it :p
23:26:35  <Bjarni> :D
23:26:45  <Eddi|zuHause2> well, TruePinky of course :)
23:27:04  <Bjarni> <Eddi|zuHause2> of course i could act like pinky, but that does not mean i would identify with him :p <-- sure. It takes brainpower to identify yourself with somebody else, nomatter how similar you are :P
23:27:28  <Eddi|zuHause2> that took you long enough :)
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23:28:58  <Phazorx> wow that's a weird one
23:29:30  <Phazorx> tile.h:57 tile < MapSize()
23:31:12  <Eddi|zuHause2> what about it?
23:31:24  <Phazorx> strange assertion
23:31:38  <Eddi|zuHause2> why?
23:31:55  <Phazorx> game checking tile outside of map?
23:32:01  <Eddi|zuHause2> assertions are conditions that should always be true
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23:32:12  <Phazorx> meaning this one wasnt
23:32:18  <Phazorx> and tile index probably was out of bounds
23:32:27  <Ailure> hmm
23:32:31  <Ailure> hello all
23:32:39  <TrueBrain> hi Ailure
23:32:55  <Ailure> Anything new?
23:33:06  <TrueBrain> yup
23:33:09  <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, and if you triggered that assertion, your job would be to provide us with a description how you did it
23:33:22  <Ailure> Apart from trams being implented?
23:33:24  <Ailure> :o
23:33:31  <TrueBrain> blitters!! :)
23:33:40  <Eddi|zuHause2> articulated vehicles
23:33:46  <Ailure> neat
23:33:56  <Ailure> any newGRF that uses that feature currently?
23:34:01  <Eddi|zuHause2> road vehicles to be more specific
23:34:07  <Ailure> yeah I figured so
23:34:08  <Eddi|zuHause2> yes. trams
23:34:22  <Eddi|zuHause2> some of them, at least
23:34:23  <Ailure> any spefic tramset I mean
23:34:25  <Ailure> heh
23:34:26  <Eddi|zuHause2> and more will follow
23:35:30  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10125 /trunk/src/economy.cpp: -Fix [FS#865]: under some circumstances the wagons of a train didn't get loaded properly.
23:36:38  <Ailure> I wish you could define the titlescreen in the config file
23:36:43  <Ailure> I use a custom titlescreen xD
23:36:53  <Ailure> but I have to replace it back everytime I get a new nightly
23:37:26  <TrueBrain> I still want a rotating titlescreen :)
23:37:49  <Eddi|zuHause2> wasn't wolf01 working on a patch?
23:38:04  <TrueBrain> PocketPC?
23:38:18  <Ailure> heh
23:38:25  <Ailure> I made my own titlescreen featuring some custom newGRF
23:38:36  <Ailure> but main reason is that the titlescreen OTTD uses
23:38:36  <Eddi|zuHause2> no, title screen scrolling and stuff
23:38:41  <Ailure> seems to be designed by some ADHD kid
23:39:05  <Ailure> so you hear all kind of vehicle noises when you start OTTD D:
23:39:26  <TrueBrain> start openttd -snull
23:39:26  <TrueBrain> :p
23:39:38  <Ailure> but I want sounds
23:40:10  <Eddi|zuHause2> but why do you need to replace it every time? just don't overwrite it
23:40:54  <Ailure> true
23:41:34  <Eddi|zuHause2> for that purpose, the read only attribute got invented :(
23:41:36  <Eddi|zuHause2> ;)
23:41:47  <Ailure> guess what
23:41:51  <Ailure> it's marked read only
23:41:56  <Ailure> but my OS isn't exactly D:
23:42:00  <Ailure> well
23:42:04  <Ailure> if you choose overwrite all
23:42:13  <Ailure> that includes readonly files
23:42:16  <Ailure> in Windows at least
23:42:24  <Sionide> there needs to be a competition for a new titlescreen
23:42:48  <Sionide> when the scrolling patch it done maybe
23:42:52  <Eddi|zuHause2> iirc, if i chose "overwrite all", it asked again on a read only file
23:43:06  <Sionide> basically, take a small map and *fill* it with every feature you can think of..
23:43:08  <Bjarni> I wouldn't mind more than one titlescreen
23:43:21  <Bjarni> so the game could select a random one each time
23:43:22  <Ailure> I was considering to start a such contest xD
23:43:23  <Sionide> on random, when you start?
23:43:28  <Bjarni> would use a bit more disk space though
23:43:30  <Ailure> for fun
23:43:31  <Sionide> Ailure, do it!
23:43:55  <Sionide> loads of new features aren't represented in the titlescreen which is what i thought it was for..
23:43:58  <Bjarni> yeah, go for it
23:44:26  <Ailure>
23:44:29  <Bjarni> and if it's started by a non-developer, it's way easier for us to do nothing if nothing good turns up
23:44:35  <Ailure> mine probably would be rather boring for people with low resoultions
23:44:44  <Ailure> since you would only see the forest xD
23:44:44  <Bjarni> just remember that the titlescreen shouldn't depend on newGRF
23:45:19  <Sionide> Ailure, it's boring at your res, it needs to be busier than that... all stuff going on, all features shown (where possible obviously)
23:45:29  <Bjarni> yeah, it should work nicely with both 640x480 and 1600x1200
23:45:52  <Bjarni> testing the latter could cause issues for some people, but the first should be fairly simple to test xD
23:45:58  <Ailure> Sionide
23:46:02  <Ailure> reason I made my own titlescreen
23:46:08  <Sionide> like the current one, there's always stuff going on and things moving around and that's cool
23:46:09  <Ailure> was that the orginal titlescreen was way too busy for my taste
23:46:19  <Ailure> It was fun at first
23:46:25  <Ailure> but it get's old fast when you start OTTD often
23:46:38  <Ailure> heck after awhile
23:46:51  <Bjarni> that's why having more than one and selection of one at random could be nice
23:46:56  <Ailure> hearing the "ding ding ding ding *boat sound*" was the same thing as "Connection lost" for me
23:47:06  <Bjarni> lol
23:47:28  <Sionide> Ailure, newgrf aside, yours doesn't show off any openttd features.. which i think the title screen should
23:48:02  <Ailure> Well I didn't make that titlescreen to show off features
23:48:09  <Ailure> mostly to please my eyes whenever I start OTTD D:
23:48:31  <Ailure> I was considering to use a competly empty landscape instead
23:48:35  <Ailure> with no civilization
23:48:45  <Bjarni> if it should have any chance of getting accepted as an official one, then it needs to be a showoff of features
23:49:04  <Sionide> indeed
23:49:19  <Ailure> well I didn't say I would try making this a official titlescreen though :p
23:49:44  <Ailure> and it should be possible to have more than one
23:50:23  <Ailure> and talking about offical features
23:50:31  <Ailure> it's kinda hard to showoff trams without using a newGRF
23:52:20  <Eddi|zuHause2> i think at some point we should decide to extend the default set with some features
23:52:26  <Ailure> I probably would use the generic tramset if I had to use one newGRF though
23:52:34  <Eddi|zuHause2> like generic trams, or refittable trucks
23:52:37  <Ailure> mostly becuse it's similar in style to the rest of the road vehicles and trains
23:52:48  <Ailure> generic trams set seems to be the first "finished" tramset
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23:53:21  <Ailure> Though there's a few promising tram sets of course
23:53:24  <Ailure> they're just not done
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