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00:00:09 <eekee> comments in most unix-y config files must have looked funny 00:00:27 <Eddi|zuHause2> i know that i never ever used the ~ character until win95 came out 00:01:15 <eekee> I remember liking the old ISO layout, but don't recall much now. I remember : was next to ; rather than being shift-; , was much nicer for using vi, lol 00:01:50 <Eddi|zuHause2> here ; is shift-, and : i shift-. 00:01:52 <eekee> I think ' was shift-; though, which wasn't so nice 00:02:02 <eekee> ah yes 00:02:16 <eekee> here it's < and > respectively 00:02:32 <Eddi|zuHause2> > is shift-< 00:02:57 *** ProfFrink [~proffrink@82-43-58-81.cable.ubr04.croy.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 00:03:08 <eekee> oh yes, that's what the \| key of a UK keyboard becomes with US layout 00:03:53 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@82-43-58-81.cable.ubr04.croy.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:03:53 *** ProfFrink is now known as Prof_Frink 00:03:59 <Eddi|zuHause2> the worst part for programmers is usually that the {[]} keys have to be used with AltGr 00:04:10 <eekee> ack! 00:04:27 <Eddi|zuHause2> i don't have a problem with that actually 00:04:54 <eekee> well it's alright if you're handling inputs properly anyway 00:05:17 <Eddi|zuHause2> the worst problem with the american layout, besides the y-z switch is that you need shift to get + 00:05:44 <eekee> yeah, not keen on that. Another thing the ISO layout fixed 00:06:33 <Eddi|zuHause2> here the +/*/~ key is next to the return key (normal/shift/altgr) 00:07:03 <eekee> #~ here, & a little bit of a nuisance. 00:07:06 <Eddi|zuHause2> and the -/_ key is next to the right shift 00:07:34 <Eddi|zuHause2> no, + is above # 00:07:48 <Eddi|zuHause2> the # key is really annoying there 00:08:05 *** lolman [~lolman@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 00:08:08 <Eddi|zuHause2> it used to be above the return key (with a shortened backspace) 00:08:26 <Eddi|zuHause2> and the return was bigger 00:08:38 <Eddi|zuHause2> and now i always hit both keys 00:08:48 <eekee> The last kb I had put #~ up by the backsace, making the backspace single-key size & the return a full size. That was a nuisance, but I don't particularly like #~ by return either, lol 00:08:54 <eekee> heh 00:09:26 <Eddi|zuHause2> i don't use backspace that often, it does not need to be supersized 00:09:40 <eekee> I liked the ST layout, had #~ on the far side of the right shift, but the whole kb was wider iirc 00:09:45 <eekee> I do! 00:10:14 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, i probably use 'e' far more often than backspace... 00:10:22 <Eddi|zuHause2> and that is not supersized either... 00:10:46 <eekee> biggest annoyance I find is insert & delete, particularly with Gtk+ 2.x which gives no clue as to whether you're in insert or overwrite mode, which steenks! 00:10:53 <Eddi|zuHause2> i think 'e' is used far more often in german than in english 00:11:06 <eekee> er, e is like, under your fingers, backspace is further otu. That's myy problem with it 00:12:17 <eekee> yy.. I think this keyboard has a little bounce. Maybe why I stopped using it; that & it predates Windows keys :) 00:12:21 <Eddi|zuHause2> i don't have that kind of problem... 00:12:36 <Eddi|zuHause2> my problem is much more that i hit return instead of backspace... 00:12:55 <eekee> heh, I did that more with the smaller backspace ^^; 00:12:58 <Eddi|zuHause2> get one with tux keys :) 00:13:38 <eekee> Eddi|zuHause2: would love to :D but I'm gonna get a unicomp terminal emulator instead. Gettign url... 00:13:54 <Eddi|zuHause2> have you seen those logitech keyboards that have a supersized del key, and place the ins key totally wrong? 00:14:29 <eekee> http://www.pckeyboard.com/emulator.html 00:14:40 <eekee> nope, but I'd like to 00:15:36 <eekee> I very briefly was able to use an actual IBM terminal kb of the same layout & construction of that unicomp kb. Very nice :D 00:17:07 <benc_> kind of ironic that keyboards styled after ones from two decades ago are so much better 00:17:10 <eekee> http://steampunkworkshop.com/keyboard.shtml That's what I want to mod the unicomp kb to, or something like it :D 00:17:21 <benc_> than the micro-sized, media-enhanced stuff oems spit out :) 00:17:36 <eekee> *shivers* yes... 00:17:52 <Eddi|zuHause2> http://www.daskeyboard.com/ 00:17:53 <Eddi|zuHause2> :p 00:18:00 <eekee> although I find I don't mind laprtop kbs. 00:18:27 <benc_> using an ext kb with a laptop is just too clunky 00:18:48 *** Hendikins [~wolfox@CPE-121-209-210-229.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:18:58 <Eddi|zuHause2> i usually hate laptop keyboards for their misplacement of special keys like the arrows 00:19:12 <eekee> flat :) Cherry have a good rep, but afaik only the IBM design Unicomp licensed has a curved base so the keys actually go down at different angles 00:19:15 <benc_> i have a particular bizarre laptop kb, i think toshiba engineers rolled dice to figure out which keys they'd arbitrarily swap 00:19:17 <eekee> oh yes... 00:19:22 <eekee> LOL 00:19:52 <eekee> I have an old iBook. With Apple key bindings it's not too bad, but it's a US layout, lol 00:22:41 <Eddi|zuHause2> you don't get US layout problems with "das keyboard" :) 00:22:50 <eekee> heheheheheh 00:23:33 <eekee> Abble did an iBook with blank white keys. It scares me, lol, as does Das Keyboard :D 00:23:37 <eekee> *Apple 00:23:51 <mikegrb> I have an ibook with blank keys 00:24:01 <mikegrb> well it did have blank keys, from wear 00:24:14 <eekee> hehe 00:24:20 <mikegrb> got a new macbook and wife made me buy a new keyboard for the ibook before giving it to her ;) 00:24:35 <eekee> mine's not that far gone, one careful lady owner before I got hold of it, lawl 00:24:43 <eekee> heh ^^ 00:25:57 *** KritiK [Maxim@ppp83-237-102-44.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:26:14 <eekee> It's funny that the Das Keyboard page should mention mechanical keyswitches, because all the cheap rubish kbs I've had in the last few years have ahd them 00:26:27 *** Markkisen [~hestporr@h22n1fls301o1037.telia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:26:30 <eekee> (not Cherry switches, obviously) 00:27:04 <Jerub> there was once an apple ibook keyboard made by fingerworks 00:27:20 <eekee> who? 00:27:25 <Jerub> fingerworks.com 00:27:29 <eekee> *click* 00:27:38 *** Markkisen [~hestporr@h22n1fls301o1037.telia.com] has joined #openttd 00:27:51 <Eddi|zuHause2> i have thought about buying a "das keyboard", but it does not seem to come in a wireless version :( 00:28:08 <eekee> ooh, looks rubbery o.o; 00:28:17 *** SmatZ [~root@a40-prg1-5-107.static.adsl.vol.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:28:41 <Jerub> eekee: it's not rubbery, it's a flat touch sensitive surface, like a trackpad on a laptop 00:28:55 <eekee> ah! hmmmm 00:29:03 <Jerub> I have a touchstream lp at work. 00:29:15 *** Hendikins [~wolfox@CPE-121-209-210-229.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 00:29:15 <eekee> was it hard, like a laptop trackpad? 00:29:24 <eekee> that would give me rsi, lol 00:30:16 *** DJ_Mirage [~sexybigge@biggetje.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: www.sexybiggetje.nl] 00:30:17 <eekee> or.. hmm, I think it would 00:30:41 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A45A1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 00:30:46 <Eddi|zuHause2> i hate touchpads on laptops... they are always where i want to put my hands 00:30:59 <eekee> hehe, yeah, they're evil like that 00:31:49 <Hendikins> eekee: Thought you were going back to bed :P 00:31:52 <dihedral> someone here fit with rrdtool? 00:32:32 <Smoovious> NoAI is getting merged into trunk already?! 00:32:38 <dihedral> i would need a rrd database :-) 00:33:02 <eekee> Hendikins: gonna let my dinner go down & have some more to eat. 00:33:28 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10291 /trunk/src/town_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#920]: double click in town-GUI didn't work as expected 00:33:59 <eekee> my iBook has a "prevent accidental trackpad input" option that works for me, & I've seen a similar option on a Windows laptop 00:34:11 <eekee> what's NoAI? 00:34:54 <Smoovious> it is one of the branches, dedicated to the development of a new AI system, that would be extremely configurable... allowing for different AI's to be used 00:35:01 <eekee> ooh! 00:35:30 <Smoovious> would be cool for different computer players to run different AI's... so they have their own personality. :) 00:35:36 <eekee> yeah :D 00:35:52 <eekee> oh hey, why does turning all news off make the game smoother? (giant map) 00:36:10 <eekee> er, & that's in multiplayer, just as a client 00:36:20 <glx> less things to display 00:36:27 <Smoovious> less to sort 00:36:43 <eekee> *shrug* ok 00:36:46 <Smoovious> that too 00:36:58 <dihedral> a learning ai :-D 00:37:05 <eekee> *wish* :D 00:37:27 <dihedral> set it to record for 3 full games and after that the others will not know who is playing 00:37:34 <Sacro> http://www.b3ta.com/links/Goodbye_Tony_Blair 00:37:39 <dihedral> even chattative? 00:37:47 <eekee> hehehe 00:38:34 <eekee> Silent player B) 00:40:05 <skidd13> why not a cooperative AI for dummy work, eg. balance the number of vehicles on a shared order. 00:41:00 <Smoovious> cuz an AI is supposed to behave in a manner that is comparable to a real player... if a player can't do it, neither can the AI... 00:41:36 <Smoovious> they aren't meant to compensate for dummies :P 00:41:44 <eekee> :D 00:43:07 <Phazorx> can AI be separated from mane code 00:43:17 <Phazorx> and be connecatbale as virtual player 00:43:54 <Phazorx> i'd love to do logic for that, assuming it will be not integrated into code and can be externalized 00:43:55 <dihedral> what a catchy tune Sacro 00:43:59 <eekee> AI client.. I don't really know the network protocol, but I think so 00:44:46 <Smoovious> from what I understand, you'll be able to design your own AI's for it... I think it is based on squirrel, but I don't know 00:44:57 <glx> it is 00:45:12 <Smoovious> so it is. :D 00:46:39 <Sacro> dihedral: yes, most people think that 00:48:33 <Sacro> somehow 660MB of ram is being used 00:48:37 <Sacro> how do i find out where its all gone :\ 00:49:07 <Sacro> :o 00:49:16 <Sacro> top has 1777172k used 00:49:19 <Sacro> thats like 00:49:26 <Sacro> 1.7(ish) gig 00:49:28 <dihedral> is there any data, that is consistent during one game ? 00:49:49 <eekee> size of the map :D 00:50:19 <dihedral> *one* game 00:50:23 <dihedral> not *all* games 00:50:41 <dihedral> sorry - my bad- did not emphasis correctly before 00:51:23 <Smoovious> type of scenario 00:51:24 <eekee> Well, diferent games may have different sized maps. I thnk you're looking for some kind of key you can use to ID a game, right? 00:51:45 <dihedral> data that is different from one newgame to another newgame! 00:52:11 <Smoovious> not sure, but... is the random seed value saved? 00:52:36 <dihedral> it is at least not sent 00:52:37 <Smoovious> wouldn't be perfect, but it would be unique enough to be practical 00:52:44 <dihedral> but yes - random seed would do it 00:53:00 <Smoovious> it has to be sent... or the other players wouldn't sync 00:53:21 <dihedral> ah - yes 00:53:28 <dihedral> perhaps with a tcp connection 00:53:36 <dihedral> but i only got a udp connection 00:53:44 <Smoovious> probably when the game data is sent 00:54:03 <Smoovious> how do you get udp only and not tcp? it is the same connection 00:54:55 <dihedral> http://openttdlib.dihedral.de/example2.php 00:55:08 <dihedral> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=32659 00:55:13 <dihedral> that is how :-D 00:55:13 <Phazorx> eekee: emulated client 00:55:18 <Phazorx> it can be local as well 00:55:37 <eekee> Phazorx: yeah 00:55:45 <Smoovious> well, sorry, but I'm not really motivated enough to chase/retype the url's... 00:55:51 <Smoovious> no browser on this computer 00:56:14 <Phazorx> it would be nice to have global KB for AI too 00:56:27 <Smoovious> KB? 00:56:39 <Phazorx> knowledge base 00:56:45 <Phazorx> studying more promissing moves 00:57:02 <dihedral> smovious: just remember OpenTTDLib and search the forums next time 00:57:43 <Smoovious> me, I'm planning on writing an intentionally bad AI... not one that plays stupidly, like the legacy AI, but just plays bad... :) 00:58:00 <dihedral> lol 00:58:24 <glx> 'getseed' in the console gives the seed 00:58:26 <dihedral> i shall write an ai that will watch my servers for ai's that are playing badly and kick them 00:58:45 <eekee> haha! 00:58:47 <dihedral> glx: that still does not send it udp to OpenTTDLib 00:58:56 <glx> right 00:59:05 <Smoovious> uh huh 00:59:25 <dihedral> unless of course there are tcp queries that can be done without me having to be a client 00:59:40 <dihedral> and i doubt that ! 01:01:08 <eekee> how is server name, # of companies etc retrieved before connection? 01:01:43 <dihedral> udp 01:01:51 <dihedral> 1. query master server 01:01:59 <dihedral> 2. get ip's and ports 01:02:01 <eekee> O.o ok 01:02:03 <dihedral> 2. query those 01:02:09 <dihedral> all udp!! 01:02:12 <dihedral> afaik 01:02:23 <Smoovious> doncha mean 3. ? 01:02:36 *** Markkisen [~hestporr@h22n1fls301o1037.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:02:38 <eekee> seems wierd to use udp for small quantities of non-time-critical data, but what do I know 01:02:41 <dihedral> i said *as far as i know* :-D 01:02:57 <Smoovious> 2 2's? 01:03:04 <dihedral> eekee: usually most game data like that is done udp 01:03:15 <Smoovious> must have gone to an american school... 01:03:16 <dihedral> i dont know anything bejond that 01:03:26 <eekee> *shrug* ok. 01:03:31 <dihedral> that is why i had issues with the 16 bit integers today 01:03:39 <dihedral> :-D 01:03:46 <dihedral> actually 4 bit 01:03:50 <eekee> 16-bit now? heh 01:03:54 <dihedral> hell i should know 3 01:03:56 <dihedral> na 01:03:59 <dihedral> just kidding 01:04:05 <eekee> :d 01:04:27 <dihedral> Smoovious: i was having issues with getting php to handle 64bit integers... just to fill you in 01:04:55 * Smoovious nods. 01:10:17 * eekee sleeps 01:18:28 <Belugas> http://devs.openttd.org/~belugas/Industries/newindustry_gui1.png 01:18:31 <Belugas> http://devs.openttd.org/~belugas/Industries/newindustry_gui2.png 01:18:34 <Belugas> http://devs.openttd.org/~belugas/Industries/newindustry_gui3.png 01:18:39 <Belugas> I like it :D 01:18:48 <Belugas> although not finished... 01:19:34 *** XeryusTC [~irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has quit [Quit: Solong, and thanks for all the fish.] 01:19:56 <Ailure> hehe 01:20:00 <mikegrb> I hate it. 01:20:05 <Ailure> wait 01:20:06 <Ailure> holy shit 01:20:08 <Ailure> is that openTTD? 01:20:11 <mikegrb> (because it is not in my copy) 01:20:19 <Ailure> :o 01:20:26 <Ailure> You should post a compersation with TTDpatch 01:20:41 <Ailure> I forgot how it looked like, but I think it was kinda similar 01:20:45 <Ailure> just without that coloured square 01:20:46 <Belugas> it is ottd indeed :) 01:20:52 <Ailure> nice 01:21:08 <Belugas> mikegrb, what dislikes you in those screenies? 01:21:09 <Ailure> The square thing is a neat addition though 01:21:18 <mikegrb> (because it is not in my copy) <-- Belugas, this 01:21:26 <Belugas> lol!!! 01:21:29 <mikegrb> <3 01:21:54 <Belugas> it will... 01:22:13 <Belugas> Ailure, the gui is a bit like ttdpatch's one, 01:22:25 <Belugas> but i discovered afterward it was based on the same idea. 01:22:33 <Ailure> ah 01:22:38 <Belugas> although, mine is resizeable, ttdp not 01:22:55 <Ailure> heh 01:23:00 <Ailure> due to the flexible GUI code? 01:23:01 <Belugas> mine highlights the selected indiustru, ttdp not 01:23:13 <Belugas> yeah quite a bit more flexible... 01:23:18 <Ailure> heh 01:23:24 <Ailure> I recall reading about such internal changes before. 01:24:14 <Ailure> Nothing that users notice right away, but it makes for faster and easier devolopment for programmers :p 01:24:33 <Belugas> Recently? yo must be referencing the cpp_gui branch then... 01:24:38 <Ailure> ah 01:24:40 <Ailure> well 01:24:47 <Ailure> for some itme ago I mean 01:25:02 <Belugas> or maybe the widget branch? a while ago 01:25:05 <Ailure> at least I could swear seeing such changes in the trunk log 01:25:05 <Ailure> yeah 01:25:07 <Ailure> the widget thing 01:25:24 <Belugas> yeah... that was quite a challenge :) 01:25:48 <Ailure> Well, it's worth it if it saves future headache 01:25:49 <Ailure> :) 01:27:02 <glx> and now we can even use double click for some things 01:28:03 <Ailure> yeah 01:28:24 <Ailure> only annoyance I have with the UI 01:28:32 <Ailure> is the 'hidden' stuff 01:28:46 <Ailure> like holding down ctrl while cloning to make it share vehicle orders 01:29:06 <Ailure> While I know quite well how to do that, it's sometimes a bad idea to hide features behind "shortcuts" 01:29:13 <glx> right click tells you about that 01:29:16 <Ailure> or hotkeys 01:29:26 <Ailure> heh 01:29:27 <Ailure> it does 01:30:02 <glx> (for ctrl stuff not for shortcuts) 01:30:45 <Ailure> heh 01:30:49 <Ailure> I also like how far you can zoom out now 01:30:50 *** Eddi|zuHause3 [~johekr@p54B75535.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 01:31:12 <Ailure> makes the minimap obsolote sometimes :p 01:31:18 <Ailure> well, I still use it for finding industries heh 01:32:21 <skidd13> @availible dev: I fixed the issues of the random town layout (http://bugs.openttd.org/task/897) peter1138 listed. Is it OK now? 01:35:54 * Belugas reads 01:37:28 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B74EEF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:38:38 <Belugas> it seems the comment i added is no longer required, with "CheckSavegameVersion(69)" :) 01:38:56 <Smoovious> comment? 01:39:16 <Belugas> on skidd13's patch... 01:39:29 <Belugas> i wrote that little part (iirc) 01:39:39 <skidd13> yup 01:39:41 <Belugas> but not as it is right now 01:39:59 <Belugas> peter1138 make skidd13 changed it in a more ... simple way 01:40:49 <Smoovious> as long as you're peeking at stuff... I posted a real tiny patch FS#914 01:42:09 <Belugas> saw that today, yes 01:42:23 <Belugas> i kinda remember it has been discussed too 01:42:29 <Belugas> in a positive way ;) 01:43:16 <Smoovious> damn 01:43:25 <Smoovious> gonna ruin my track record 01:43:37 <Smoovious> lemme re-do it so it goes way against coding style 01:44:25 <Smoovious> btw, spending tonight working on getting my chat window patch current again... and changed... had some ideas to do a couple things differently on it 01:44:43 <Smoovious> and just gonna start over on my subsidies one 01:44:51 * dihedral is amazingly tired and will get to bed now 01:44:58 <Smoovious> wave 01:45:07 * dihedral waves back 01:45:22 <dihedral> it is terrible when gravity is experienced with eye-lids 01:45:31 <dihedral> Belugas how are you doing? 01:45:40 <dihedral> happy weekend up ahead? 01:45:49 <skidd13> damned late here too... nearly 4am.... night 01:46:21 <Smoovious> I just use gravity to tell me which way I should pour the milk in my cap'n crunch 01:46:29 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A45A1.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #openttd [] 01:47:13 <Jerub> I've gotta say, the most annoying thing about long trains (20+ carriages) is how long they spend at 61km/h leaving depots 01:47:20 <Belugas> dihedral, 3 days long we yeah : 01:47:21 <Belugas> :) 01:47:25 <Belugas> lot of time to rest ;) 01:47:45 <dihedral> yeah... if used to rest :-D 01:48:05 <dihedral> Smoovious: your patch: + case WKC_F1: case WKC_PAUSE: ToolbarPauseClick(w); break; 01:48:19 <dihedral> case something: case something ?? 01:48:51 <dihedral> i have no idea 01:48:55 <dihedral> just looks odd :-) 01:49:15 <dihedral> yeah - forget it... 01:49:15 <glx> dihedral: we use that at many places 01:49:34 <Belugas> going to bed. see you soon 01:49:37 <dihedral> i expected stuff like that to strech over 2 lines 01:49:51 <dihedral> enjoy your sleep in Belugas 01:50:03 <dihedral> too tired to think straight 01:50:31 <dihedral> not a good idea to be looking at code when i cannot even look out of my eyes! 01:52:07 *** Markkisen [~hestporr@h22n1fls301o1037.telia.com] has joined #openttd 01:54:23 <TrueBrain> pompiedom 01:54:35 <Sacro> don't you people sleep? 01:54:43 <TrueBrain> nope 01:54:53 <Sacro> fair enoguh 01:55:04 <Smoovious> <dihedral> case something: case something ?? <--- yeah, but it matched identical to the other one in there, so thought it best to stay consistent 01:55:57 <Smoovious> Sacro... does passing out count as sleep? 01:56:44 <Sacro> Smoovious: depends 01:58:57 <TrueBrain> I am bored 01:59:04 <TrueBrain> we no longer have small bugs 01:59:05 <TrueBrain> very annoying 01:59:55 <Smoovious> :( 02:00:09 <TrueBrain> so go and find some! 02:00:54 <Sacro> TrueBrain: fix pbs 02:01:11 <dihedral> lol 02:01:14 <TrueBrain> to fix something, it needs to be there in the first place 02:01:18 <dihedral> yeah - that goes through as "small" 02:01:25 <dihedral> oh 02:01:31 <dihedral> fix the lack thereof 02:01:36 <TrueBrain> give me a 16 bit _m8, and you have your PBS 02:02:10 <Sacro> why do my trains slow down *every* time they hit a corner 02:02:13 <Smoovious> on the helistation, if a heli is coming out of the depot to a pad, the other helis there wait til the depot heli parks on a pad before taking off 02:02:23 <Smoovious> inertia 02:02:24 <dihedral> what is _m8? 02:02:41 <TrueBrain> something I am making up right now 02:02:42 <Sacro> TrueBrain: add _m8 02:03:01 <dihedral> if you need friends... well - then i dont know 02:03:09 <dihedral> but add_m8 sure sounds like it 02:03:13 <TrueBrain> see, to have PBS, every train needs to leave some data on the rail 02:03:17 <TrueBrain> letting know it was there 02:03:23 <TrueBrain> after that it kind of is a piece of cake 02:03:37 <TrueBrain> as there is a 16bit vehicleID to store 02:03:41 <TrueBrain> I need 16 bit s free :) 02:03:56 <dihedral> mapsize << trainnumber << tiles_with_tracks_on 02:04:02 <glx> isn't there enough space with m7 ? 02:04:12 <TrueBrain> glx: I was just checking that 02:04:14 <TrueBrain> for normal rail there is now 02:04:29 <dihedral> and what is m7? 02:04:31 <Sacro> TrueBrain: all it needs to do is reserve the track with 1 bit 02:04:32 <TrueBrain> for tunnels 02:04:34 <TrueBrain> for bridges 02:04:36 <glx> should be ok for station too I think 02:04:38 <Sacro> well, 1 bit per trackdir 02:04:38 <TrueBrain> Sacro: hahahahahaha 02:05:07 <TrueBrain> glx: I only don't have enough bits for road/rail crossing 02:05:22 <TrueBrain> but as it never can be a junction, it might not be that big of a problem 02:05:32 <TrueBrain> Sacro: just think for a second about your claim 02:05:33 <TrueBrain> just for a sec 02:05:37 * Sacro thinks 02:05:39 <TrueBrain> a train, reserves tiles 02:05:44 <Sacro> yes... 02:05:51 <TrueBrain> but.. how the fuck does he know he is the one reserved them? 02:06:04 <Sacro> cos when the next one asks... its told no 02:06:04 <TrueBrain> if you modify the track, the PF finds an other route 02:06:07 <TrueBrain> and oh dear..... 02:06:09 <Sacro> they already are reserved 02:06:15 <Sacro> *BOOM* 02:06:16 <TrueBrain> yes, but when he asks himself that 02:06:18 <Sacro> just like the old PBS :p 02:06:20 <TrueBrain> he gets too: no! 02:06:43 <Sacro> hmmm 02:06:49 <Sacro> i'm sure thats more complex than is needed 02:07:34 <TrueBrain> but if you store the vehicle ID, you can at least track it for real 02:07:41 <TrueBrain> anyway, that would be my intake into PBS 02:07:46 <TrueBrain> I am sure others think differently :) 02:07:56 *** dfox [~dfox@r5cv25.net.upc.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:08:28 <glx> an always red system would be nice 02:08:35 <TrueBrain> glx: and I miss 3 bits for stations 02:08:42 <TrueBrain> always red system? 02:08:48 <Sacro> glx: i have got an always red system here 02:09:14 <Sacro> thing is... its *always* red 02:09:21 <TrueBrain> okay, now I am going to ask the very tricky question: how does TTDP do it? 02:09:31 <Sacro> TrueBrain: download their source :p 02:09:43 <Sacro> i still get more amusement from my NOR signals 02:10:03 <glx> I meant default red 02:10:41 <Smoovious> hmm... 02:10:44 <TrueBrain> bah, my way into PBS will fail too :p 02:10:48 <TrueBrain> so, I gave it a spin :) 02:11:28 *** MarkSlap [~hestporr@h22n1fls301o1037.telia.com] has joined #openttd 02:11:46 *** Markkisen [~hestporr@h22n1fls301o1037.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:11:47 <Sacro> http://www.tt-forums.net/files/ottd_psig_167.png 02:11:54 <Smoovious> afk20min 02:12:16 <benc_> how far ahead would trains be reserving track for PBS? 02:12:26 *** Tobin [~Tobin@c58-107-50-36.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 02:12:50 <Sacro> benc_: hopefully it would depend on its stopping distance 02:13:09 <TrueBrain> Sacro: normally PBS works from signal to signal 02:13:19 <TrueBrain> else it is possible it has to stop in the middle of a PBS blocks 02:13:24 <benc_> ah 02:13:34 <TrueBrain> which can cause 1) deadlocks, 2) is silly, as there are no signals :) 02:13:35 <benc_> sounds like a pretty sparse matrix then 02:13:57 <benc_> might be worth looking into storing track reservations in a tree 02:14:01 <Sacro> TrueBrain: what do you mean? 02:14:11 <dihedral> what happened to the pbs that once was there? 02:14:13 <benc_> (TileIndex, VehicleID) tuples as the key 02:14:24 <TrueBrain> dihedral: it was bugged beyond repair, and nobody cared to fix it 02:14:30 <benc_> er, TileIndex as key, VehicleID as value 02:14:48 <TrueBrain> so we reverted so we could release a stable version, and nobody fixed it to get it back in 02:15:02 <dihedral> right 02:15:44 <TrueBrain> but I think the idea was bugged by design 02:16:16 <Sacro> @openttd commit 3471 02:16:18 <DorpsGek> Sacro: Commit by Darkvater :: r3471 branch/pbs/ (2006-01-29 18:41:39 UTC) 02:16:20 <DorpsGek> Sacro: - Branch PBS and remove it from trunk. Interested people can fix/rewrite it wholly in svn.openttd.org/branch/pbs 02:16:25 <TrueBrain> benc_: checking if a tile is available makes it rather hard 02:16:25 <Sacro> it was a sad day :( 02:16:39 <TrueBrain> Sacro: it depends on your point of view :) 02:16:51 <Sacro> TrueBrain: insane user of PBS 02:17:04 <TrueBrain> Sacro: sure it was sad to see it being removed from trunk, but it did prevent us from releasing any stable version 02:17:09 <benc_> TrueBrain: if the tree is keyed on TileIndex, checking if a tile is available should be O(log n) 02:17:15 <Sacro> TrueBrain: i thought PBS was fine 02:17:18 <TrueBrain> which means we still were in like 0.4.0.1 as latest stable? :) 02:17:20 <Sacro> you just had to know how to use it 02:17:28 <TrueBrain> Sacro: haha :) I define that as unstable :) 02:17:30 <Sacro> wasn't it pre 0.4.0? 02:17:45 <TrueBrain> Sacro: I have applications where you can't press on certain places; advise of helpdesk: don't press there 02:17:57 <TrueBrain> benc_: but yo need to scan all vehicles :) 02:17:57 <Sacro> PBS was fine 02:18:05 <Sacro> just don't build on a junction thats got trains running on it 02:18:24 <TrueBrain> Sacro: the bug-list was longer then my arm, but let's not get into that 02:18:25 <benc_> i don't follow 02:18:33 *** Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-62-167-42-124.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:18:35 <benc_> why scan all vehicles? 02:18:39 <Hendikins> I liked PBS, bug laden as it was. 02:18:39 <TrueBrain> oh, you mean a stand-alone list 02:18:48 <benc_> yes 02:18:53 <TrueBrain> someone should have kept on syncing the pbs branch :) 02:19:06 <Sacro> TrueBrain: me and DaveWorley tried to remerge it 02:19:19 <Sacro> actually, i might give it another go tommorow 02:19:47 <TrueBrain> benc_: hmm, not a bad idea in fact, was it not it takes a lot of memory.. the question is: how much 02:20:00 <TrueBrain> as you also need to store by track-bit for 2 cases 02:20:08 <benc_> also, if you used a map array, wouldn't you need _m8 AND _m9? one tile can contain two NS or EW tracks 02:20:19 <TrueBrain> (the 2 cases you can have 2 independant tracks that don't cross on a tile) 02:20:25 <TrueBrain> ;) 02:20:33 <TrueBrain> I can store one in existing _m 02:20:37 <TrueBrain> the second doesn't fit indeed 02:20:53 <benc_> oh thats right, vehicleid = 16 bits 02:21:00 <TrueBrain> sad aint it? :) 02:21:31 *** MarkSlap [~hestporr@h22n1fls301o1037.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:21:57 <TrueBrain> if only the PF always returned the same route for all PFs, would make it much easier :) 02:23:06 <benc_> could always politely ask players to not create junctions, would solve the whole problem ;) 02:23:14 <TrueBrain> haha :) 02:23:21 <TrueBrain> it indeed solves it all ;) 02:24:19 <TrueBrain> but okay, the other idea is also nice; it aint real, but it is nice: remove all signals, and let trains reserve track in front of them they need to break 02:24:22 <TrueBrain> ;) 02:25:31 *** Frostregen_ [~sucks@dslb-084-058-182-204.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 02:25:37 <benc_> oh dear 02:25:39 *** dihedral [~dihedral@dslb-084-056-216-076.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.4/2007051502]] 02:26:21 <TrueBrain> give an estimate: how much PBS tiles would be needed on a big game? (in % of the tiles) 02:26:33 <benc_> exactly what i was wondering 02:26:52 <TrueBrain> 10%? 02:26:58 <benc_> say 200 trains, signal spacing 4 02:27:16 <benc_> probably less than 10% 02:27:24 <TrueBrain> so.. 02:27:28 <benc_> esp on a big map 02:27:55 <TrueBrain> @calc 2048 * 2048 * (16 * 1.1 + 8) 02:27:56 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 107374182.4 02:27:59 <TrueBrain> @calc 2048 * 2048 * (16 * 1.1 + 8) / 1024 / 1024 02:27:59 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 102.4 02:28:09 <TrueBrain> @calc 2048 * 2048 * (16 * 1.1 + 8) / 1024 / 1024 / 8 02:28:10 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 12.8 02:28:16 <TrueBrain> Ah :) 12 MiB... hmm.. that is wrong 02:28:26 <TrueBrain> @calc 256 * 256 * (16 * 1.1 + 8) / 1024 / 1024 / 8 02:28:26 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 0.2 02:28:35 <TrueBrain> 200 KiB.. more like it... acceptable 02:29:09 <benc_> what;s 16*1.1 + 8? 02:29:33 <TrueBrain> 16 bits for VehicleID, 8 bits for TileIndex, and 1.1 factor for 'double' tiles :p 02:29:35 <TrueBrain> hmm, 8 bits is wrong 02:29:36 <TrueBrain> but okay 02:29:59 <benc_> tree nodes require pointers though 02:30:10 <TrueBrain> yeah, but it is a nice estimate 02:30:21 <TrueBrain> as I even forgot the 10% :p 02:30:43 <Sacro> meh, i'll do it in less 02:30:49 * Sacro has a cunning plan 02:30:52 <TrueBrain> tell us 02:30:55 <TrueBrain> might help :) 02:32:10 <benc_> using a separate data structure can always be left as an optimization for later 02:32:24 *** Frostregen [~sucks@dslb-084-058-152-030.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:32:41 *** Frostregen_ is now known as Frostregen 02:32:48 <Sacro> TrueBrain: i can't 02:32:54 <Sacro> my source is secret 02:33:02 <TrueBrain> blablablabla 02:33:14 <Sacro> its so secret, even i don't know it sometimes 02:39:00 <TrueBrain> so, if we follow benc_ in his thinking, we just need 1 bit in the _m to flag PBS reserved, and have a lookup to find which vehicle 02:39:13 <TrueBrain> hmm, 2 bits, in that silly case of 2 tracks on 1 tile :) 02:39:43 <Sacro> yes 02:39:46 <Sacro> 2 bits per tile 02:39:50 <Sacro> thats what i said 02:39:57 <benc_> or have the lookup be sparse 02:40:05 <benc_> only have nodes for reserved tiles 02:40:05 <TrueBrain> !whatis sparse 02:40:14 <TrueBrain> grr @ _42_, why did I disable it in #openttd :( 02:40:15 <benc_> sparse = few elements 02:40:22 <TrueBrain> benc_: exactly what I mean 02:40:22 <benc_> in a big empty space 02:40:39 <TrueBrain> std::map stores Tile and Vehicle if the PBS bit is set 02:40:59 <benc_> why even have a pbs bit in _m then? 02:41:06 <TrueBrain> faster 02:41:26 <benc_> hmm yeah i guess that would be checked a lot 02:41:30 <TrueBrain> say a vehicle doesn't have a PBS route yet, it knows immediatly if it can use a tile or not 02:41:37 <benc_> <-- not familiar with the PBS code yet 02:41:41 <TrueBrain> me neither :p 02:41:47 <TrueBrain> just thinking how it can possible work :) 02:42:03 <TrueBrain> the main problem is: if the current route is aborted, how to clean up the reservation 02:42:11 <Sacro> when it approaches a junction, it needs to route over it 02:42:14 <Sacro> but how to handle stations 02:42:45 <benc_> store a list of tile reservations on the vehicle too 02:42:45 <TrueBrain> Sacro: depends on the order, if it is going to stop on the station, act like a PBS signal is at the enterance and at the exit 02:42:50 <TrueBrain> else reserve through it 02:42:57 <benc_> but ugh, i dont know if that's just too much crud floating around 02:43:07 <Sacro> TrueBrain: it should route out the other side anway 02:43:10 <TrueBrain> benc_: hmm, maybe even that alone is enough 02:43:13 <Sacro> to stop anything routing back the other way 02:43:38 <TrueBrain> Sacro: what do you mean? 02:43:41 <benc_> TrueBrain: i think you're right 02:43:48 <benc_> with the 2 _m bits there 02:43:59 <Sacro> TrueBrain: to have a 2 track station with both platforms 2 way 02:44:02 <TrueBrain> benc_: even more fun, if you store it per vehicle, you can disable the PF for the time it is on the PBS block :) 02:44:35 <TrueBrain> but what if the junction changes 02:44:47 <benc_> i thought the PF only fired when crossing junctions anyway? 02:44:47 <Sacro> TrueBrain: *BOOM* 02:45:03 <TrueBrain> benc_: it does, but in a PBS block it shouldn't even be doing that 02:45:04 <benc_> or when track marked dirty after construction 02:45:09 <TrueBrain> it should just follow the PBS marked route 02:45:47 <Sacro> TrueBrain: surely PBS would just reserve the YAPF generated route? 02:45:56 <TrueBrain> Sacro: of course 02:45:56 <benc_> ah, so PBS thinks out the whole route but only reserves part of it 02:46:00 <TrueBrain> or the NPF for all I care 02:46:19 <TrueBrain> benc_: PBS should reserve the route from signal to signal 02:46:24 <benc_> right 02:46:24 <Sacro> or how about ditch the idea of having PBS signals/markers and just reserving for all trains 02:46:46 <TrueBrain> Sacro: that I just told you as an idea :) 02:46:50 <TrueBrain> but it aint realistic :) 02:47:03 <Sacro> sounds pretty realistic to me 02:47:12 <TrueBrain> euh 02:47:15 <TrueBrain> trains don't just stop 02:47:17 <TrueBrain> they need signals :) 02:47:18 <Sacro> a train should have a path reserved from start to finish 02:47:31 <Sacro> and a signal goes green when its path is reserved and its path is clear 02:47:42 <benc_> doesn't work that way irl either 02:47:43 <TrueBrain> that is PBS yes :) 02:47:47 <benc_> track allocations change 02:47:52 <Sacro> benc_: they shouldn't 02:48:14 <Sacro> once a train has a path allocated, it should follow it 02:48:15 <benc_> detours happen 02:48:31 <benc_> in case of accidents, unforeseen construction, etc 02:48:31 <Sacro> why would it need to detour if it has a reserved path? 02:48:36 <TrueBrain> benc_: but lets assume for a moment that will never happen in OpenTTD :) 02:48:49 <TrueBrain> as you assume a time-tabled PBS 02:48:53 <Hendikins> I'd like to be able to run trains nose to tail on a single track bi-di line. 02:48:56 <TrueBrain> let's first try a safety PBS :) 02:49:06 <Sacro> Hendikins: moving block? 02:49:22 <Hendikins> I'm not great with the terminology used. 02:49:36 <TrueBrain> as of course the best would be if, say, the train reserves 3 tiles in front of him 02:49:42 <TrueBrain> where it tells the estimate time it will be there 02:49:54 <TrueBrain> so 2 trains can cross eachother even in reserved PBS block, because one isn't there yet ;) 02:49:54 <Hendikins> But if I've got a single track section in between double track sections, I should be able to have >1 train at a time using it if they are going in the same direction. 02:49:58 <TrueBrain> but... that might be a bit too much :p 02:50:04 <Sacro> moving block ditches signals, and uses braking distance between trains 02:50:21 <Hendikins> In real life such movements would be singalled. 02:50:23 <Sacro> Hendikins: yes, thats possible 02:51:07 <TrueBrain> it aint possible the easy 02:51:15 <TrueBrain> as it isn't a static PBS reservation 02:51:35 <TrueBrain> the = that 02:51:42 <TrueBrain> it isn't = it needs 02:51:43 <TrueBrain> :p 02:52:04 <TrueBrain> a static = a non-static 02:52:04 <TrueBrain> darn! 02:52:06 <TrueBrain> haha :) 02:52:23 <TrueBrain> to have 2 trains on the same track after eachother without signals, you are doing more then PBS :) 02:52:53 <Sacro> TrueBrain: moving block signalling 02:53:07 <Sacro> actually, it is PBS 02:53:10 <TrueBrain> which I doubt exists in real life :) 02:53:19 <TrueBrain> it is a PBS, but not a static PBS which we try here :) 02:53:26 <benc_> you are simulating the autobahn in that case 02:53:44 <Sacro> Under a moving block system, computers calculate a 'safe zone' around each moving train that no other train is allowed to enter. The system depends on knowledge of the precise location and speed and direction of each train, which is determined by a combination of several sensors: active and passive markers along the track and trainborne tachometers and speedometers (GPS systems cannot be used because they do not work in tunnels.) With a mov 02:53:44 <Sacro> ing block, lineside signals are unnecessary, and instructions are passed directly to the trains. This has the advantage of increasing track capacity by allowing trains to run closer together while maintaining the required safety margins. 02:54:08 <Sacro> TrueBrain: actually, moving block would be easier 02:54:17 <Sacro> because you don't have to bother with signals 02:54:19 <TrueBrain> Sacro: dunno if it is easier, but for sure it makes the game less fun 02:54:29 <Sacro> however unrealistic 02:54:40 <Sacro> not many trains currently use it 02:54:50 <TrueBrain> if any :) 02:54:51 <benc_> moving block sure wasn't available in 1950 02:55:06 <benc_> when the game starts 02:55:13 <TrueBrain> like PBS is :p 02:55:28 <benc_> true:P 02:55:35 <TrueBrain> but that are minor details :) 02:55:49 <Sacro> lets have a signalling system with bells implemented 02:56:56 <TrueBrain> but okay 02:57:02 <TrueBrain> ideas plenty, code none :p 02:57:53 <benc_> would it be easier to start a new branch and PBS it up? 02:58:05 <TrueBrain> you mean: start from scratch? 02:58:05 <Sacro> bring back /branches/pbs! 02:58:09 <TrueBrain> yes of course that is easier :) 02:58:24 <benc_> no, i mean whats the easiest way to merge 02:59:13 <benc_> never looked at the old branch myself, i dont know 02:59:48 <benc_> willing to help out with grunt work 02:59:57 <Sacro> mmm, me too 03:00:01 <Sacro> getting back into coding 03:00:08 <Sacro> i even vaguely understand pointers! 03:00:31 <TrueBrain> good for you :p 03:00:46 <Sacro> *pointer == variable 03:00:48 *** Tino|Home [~Tino@i5387C2A6.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 03:00:49 <TrueBrain> it is 05:00, and I am not tired :( 03:00:55 <Sacro> pointer == &variable 03:00:59 <Sacro> its 04:01 here 03:00:59 <TrueBrain> just hungry 03:01:01 <Sacro> and i'm shattered 03:02:25 <TrueBrain> Chocolate... hmm.... 03:05:01 <TrueBrain> but okay 03:05:07 <TrueBrain> why do you guys keep on pushing PBS? 03:05:12 <TrueBrain> is it that important for you? :) 03:05:54 <benc_> i'm not pushing it, i actually like the existing system just fine 03:06:04 <TrueBrain> okay, so besides benc_ :p 03:06:07 <benc_> interesting programming challenges though 03:06:17 <TrueBrain> there are easier things to start with :) 03:06:22 <benc_> indeed 03:07:05 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 03:07:58 *** TinoM| [~Tino@i5387C16E.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:09:32 <TrueBrain> so, I expect when I come back in, say, 12 hours, you guys have PBS finished 03:09:47 <benc_> we'll get right on it 03:10:34 <benc_> rome was built in a day after all:) 03:10:46 <TrueBrain> my point exactly :) 03:11:02 <TrueBrain> not much that line is used against me :) I mostly use it against people.... :p 03:11:04 * Sacro yawns 03:13:26 <TrueBrain> we should properly check how the old PBS was done :p 03:13:32 <TrueBrain> but those patches are unreadable :( 03:13:44 <benc_> how so? 03:13:51 <TrueBrain> they always are 03:13:57 <TrueBrain> they become big... 03:15:21 <Smoovious> might be worth starting again from scratch too 03:17:33 <Smoovious> maybe come up with a different way of keeping track of which signals lead to other signals... 03:17:36 <Smoovious> dunno 03:18:34 <Smoovious> would like to see more than just stop/proceed signals too... 03:18:47 <benc_> !logs 03:18:51 <benc_> !log 03:22:40 <TrueBrain> it aint going to be easy... 03:23:16 *** MarkSlap [~hestporr@h22n1fls301o1037.telia.com] has joined #openttd 03:23:52 <Sacro> Smoovious: such as? 03:26:16 <Smoovious> well... in one of the US styles... G/G all clear ahead... G/R clear ahead... Y/Y clear, expect to stop at 2nd next signal... Y/R expect to stop next signal... R/R stop... 03:26:30 <Smoovious> with signal state default to stop instead of proceed 03:27:02 <benc_> i'm going blind already trying to tell the difference between pre/signal/combo signals ;) 03:27:05 <Smoovious> clearing t he track for the t rain ahead of it... maybe get that working well, then tackle the path-based 03:27:25 <Sacro> yeah, that'd be cool 03:28:06 <Smoovious> for path based, use 3 targets... 03:28:14 <Smoovious> dunno 03:28:44 <Smoovious> would like to see a G/R if I'm going straight on t he main track, and a R/G if I'm cleared to branch off 03:28:48 * Smoovious shrugs. 03:29:00 <Smoovious> probably more complexity than we can do as far as that goes 03:29:43 <Smoovious> one guy in here the other day was talking about doing programmable signals... really interested me, but can't find a thread about it... 03:29:57 <TrueBrain> most likely he failed :p 03:30:07 <TrueBrain> via SQ it is possible, but pretty slow 03:30:21 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:30:36 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 03:30:56 <Smoovious> don't think he faileed yet, he was still doing it... but if we can do something where you can set up the available paths for the i nterlocking, and keep them in a table for that group, and signal accordingly... 03:31:06 <Smoovious> but would take a lot to work out t he l ogic 03:31:11 <Smoovious> think it can be done tho 03:31:18 <TrueBrain> not to talk about memory and speed :) 03:31:48 <benc_> that's like running a TCP router firmware on, say, Python 03:31:57 <TrueBrain> yup 03:32:05 <TrueBrain> still, much more configurable :) 03:32:58 <TrueBrain> but okay, I don't want to do PBS 03:33:03 <TrueBrain> so, what am I going to do... :) 03:33:23 <Smoovious> trying to think of what program I used to mess around with that made linking signalling together fairly easy 03:34:34 <Smoovious> well, if you really want a project... how about, if when autorenew isn't able to replace a vehicle cuz it isn't available anymore, to pop up a news item that the replacement was u navailable... i nstead of being quiet until we notice we got trains 20 years past its l ife sspan 03:34:54 <TrueBrain> Autoreplace == Bjarni 03:35:04 <Smoovious> 1 word... coup 03:35:10 <benc_> more news items! 03:35:12 <Smoovious> :D 03:35:33 <benc_> not really project-y though 03:35:53 <benc_> but would be nice to be able to get more notifications 03:36:12 <benc_> like when shares are bought, money is given in multiplayer, town actions done, etc 03:36:18 <Smoovious> well, the failied autoreplace would be on par with "...is getting old." messagees 03:36:41 <Smoovious> yeah, we need more shares too... like... 100 instead of 4 03:36:54 <TrueBrain> no, we need a dynamic share 03:37:03 <benc_> shares are worthless until after economy rebalancing:) 03:37:05 <TrueBrain> like the real market 03:37:07 <Smoovious> buy in single percents... and only buy them a limited amount at a time 03:38:27 <Smoovious> maybe, something l ike... if you h ave more than 50% ownership of another company, you don't need their permission to use their tracks anymore, you can just go on them on your own and if he d oesn't like it... well... he can sell the rest of his shares to you and go home. >:) 03:38:41 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:39:08 *** Tobin [~Tobin@c58-107-50-36.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Tobin] 03:40:41 <Smoovious> ya know, if we do increase # of companies, think we should go to 15 instead of 16, leaving company 0 available for independent vehicles... like... a road vehicle crashes or something, emergency vehicles come out of a nearby depot to the scene, disrupt traffic for a while until 03:40:50 <Smoovious> it dissapears, then drives b ack to th e depot 03:41:56 <Smoovious> or occasionally a rail work crew comes out on th e track getting i n t he way for a while 03:42:26 <TrueBrain> I like to see a lot of new disasters :) 03:42:31 <Smoovious> I had some ideas for closing airports, which I think would work 03:42:52 <TrueBrain> trains not stopping for a red signal 03:42:54 <TrueBrain> stuff like that :) 03:43:13 <Smoovious> yeah, that's what I was thinking... with a 'company 0' available for vehicles, you could do a lot with disasters and other things 03:43:49 <Smoovious> if a signal hasn't been serviced in a long time, the chance for signal failure gradually goes up 03:44:20 *** Digitalfox_ [~chatzilla@bl7-181-67.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd 03:44:22 *** Digitalfox_ is now known as Digitalfox 03:44:28 <Smoovious> much more gradually than breakdown percents... (which I think still happen too often, even on reduced... can't imagine playing on normal) 03:45:51 <Smoovious> oh... being able to start a new company when already joined to a server as an observer... that'd be great... 03:46:02 <Smoovious> less disruptive to the current players too 03:46:26 <Smoovious> and for the server... if I am hosting a game, and I go bankrupt, I'm screwed 03:53:14 <Ailure> heh 03:53:18 <Ailure> could work as a console command 03:53:50 <Ailure> NewCompany 03:53:58 <Ailure> and SwitchcCompany <ID> 03:54:13 <Ailure> eh 03:54:15 <Smoovious> should be able to just go under the load/save/quit menu too 03:54:25 <Ailure> SwitchCompany <ID> <password> 03:54:44 <Smoovious> or the client list... click on your nick, create new company 03:55:04 <benc_> essentially a way to switch from spectator to player 03:55:05 <Smoovious> but yeah, at least a console command... 03:55:09 <Smoovious> something... 03:55:13 <benc_> would be handy, genenerally 03:55:14 <Smoovious> yeah 03:55:24 <benc_> dont have to exit/reconnect if you're specing 03:55:44 <Smoovious> would help (maybe, probably not) stop all those idiots who keep creating a new company, leavbe a min later, and never come back 03:56:10 <Smoovious> tho my problem is when I find a server I wanna play on, I don't always remember which o ne it was I connected to 03:56:44 <Smoovious> maybe you could o nly create a new company, once you're connected as a spectator 03:57:08 <benc_> yeah, thats a separate issue 03:57:20 <benc_> need to remember last several servers connected to 03:57:25 <benc_> i think there's a thread about it.. 03:58:11 <Smoovious> yeah, I think I still have a FS entry up asking for it 03:58:37 <Smoovious> yeah, FS#533 03:58:48 <benc_> wow, that's a ways back 03:58:53 <benc_> in 900s now 03:59:13 <benc_> limbo sucks 03:59:26 <Smoovious> ya 03:59:28 *** nairan [~Maui_key@p5498F8F1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:59:51 <Smoovious> working on getting FS#532 current and changed a bit tonight 04:01:18 <benc_> havent tried that one out yet 04:01:43 *** Markkisen [~hestporr@h22n1fls301o1037.telia.com] has joined #openttd 04:02:03 *** MarkSlap [~hestporr@h22n1fls301o1037.telia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:02:19 <Smoovious> it worked pretty good... but still room for improvement... 04:03:24 *** nairan [~Maui_key@p5498EC4F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 04:09:51 *** MarkSlap [~hestporr@h22n1fls301o1037.telia.com] has joined #openttd 04:10:26 <Ailure> hmm 04:10:40 <Ailure> Am I silly if I have a black man as manager 04:10:49 <Ailure> then name the company as "Bike Storage" 04:11:20 *** Markkisen [~hestporr@h22n1fls301o1037.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:11:22 <Smoovious> no sillier than other companies I've seen 04:11:31 <Ailure> hehe 04:13:14 <Ailure> then in the same game 04:13:25 <Ailure> a friend made a reference to something from a silly manga about trains 04:14:36 <Ailure> http://194.47.44.201/openTTD/Bike%20Transport%20game/Bike%20Storage,%2012th%20Sep%201922%232.png 04:14:42 <Ailure> http://194.47.44.201/imagemacros/1170672919214.png 04:14:55 <Ailure> he always build thoose circular networks 04:15:06 <Ailure> and that station says "multi track drifting" in japanse 04:15:13 <Ailure> or so he said 04:15:45 <benc_> hah 04:20:56 *** MarkSlap [~hestporr@h22n1fls301o1037.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:22:10 <Smoovious> somehow I don't think multi-track drifting is going to be implemented in trunk 04:24:29 <Ailure> aww 04:32:02 * Phazorx gets a lot of desyncs/CTDs lately while managing trains servicing 04:32:20 <Phazorx> was there any bugs concerning that between 170 and now ? 04:34:05 <Ailure> 170 of what 04:34:19 <Ailure> or do you mean 04:34:23 <Ailure> 10170? 04:36:38 <Phazorx> 10170 yes 04:37:06 <Phazorx> i guess sdince i am using train grops interfqace it could eb related to grouping 04:38:23 <Ailure> heh 04:38:27 <Ailure> I was using it earlier without problems 04:38:32 <Ailure> but I didn't do anything too excessive in it 04:38:48 <Ailure> in a multiplayer game, that is 04:39:23 <Phazorx> i'm just clicking on trains and then sending them to depot 04:39:33 <Phazorx> since servicing order somehoe did not work for all 04:39:41 *** alanin is now known as Alanin 04:39:44 <Phazorx> and i got desynced twice since i started doing that 04:40:01 <Ailure> haha 04:40:04 <Ailure> that was little bit mean 04:40:11 <Ailure> but I guess he deserves it 04:41:48 <Phazorx> ? 04:41:56 <Ailure> or hmm 04:41:57 <Ailure> nevermind 05:00:44 *** MarkSlap [~hestporr@h22n1fls301o1037.telia.com] has joined #openttd 05:14:50 *** MarkSlap [~hestporr@h22n1fls301o1037.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:17:03 *** Netsplit charon.oftc.net <-> galapagos.oftc.net quits: Nigel_, CIA-1, Tefad, mikegrb, lolman, Phazorx, stillunknown, Smoovious 05:18:01 *** Markkisen [~hestporr@h22n1fls301o1037.telia.com] has joined #openttd 05:18:01 *** Netsplit over, joins: lolman, Smoovious, CIA-1, Nigel_, Phazorx, Tefad, stillunknown, mikegrb 05:18:24 *** mode/#openttd [+v peter1138] by ChanServ 05:33:58 *** Markkisen [~hestporr@h22n1fls301o1037.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:34:02 *** Markkisen [~hestporr@h22n1fls301o1037.telia.com] has joined #openttd 05:44:29 *** MarkSlap [~hestporr@h22n1fls301o1037.telia.com] has joined #openttd 05:47:06 *** Markkisen [~hestporr@h22n1fls301o1037.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:07:16 *** MarkSlap [~hestporr@h22n1fls301o1037.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:17:43 *** MarkSlap [~hestporr@h22n1fls301o1037.telia.com] has joined #openttd 06:29:46 *** MarkSlap [~hestporr@h22n1fls301o1037.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:43:23 *** benc_ [~benc_@va-71-53-204-176.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:48:14 *** MarkSlap [~hestporr@h22n1fls301o1037.telia.com] has joined #openttd 06:50:24 *** thgergo [~th_gergo@dsl51B65D02.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #openttd 06:59:20 *** MarkSlap [~hestporr@h22n1fls301o1037.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:04:58 *** MarkSlap [~hestporr@h22n1fls301o1037.telia.com] has joined #openttd 07:13:03 *** MarkSlap [~hestporr@h22n1fls301o1037.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:24:17 *** Tino|Home is now known as TinoM 07:28:21 *** Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-62-167-42-124.adslplus.ch] has joined #openttd 07:37:05 *** MarkSlap [~hestporr@h22n1fls301o1037.telia.com] has joined #openttd 07:38:53 *** helb [~helb@84.244.90.159] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:40:29 *** helb [~helb@84.244.90.159] has joined #openttd 07:46:30 *** Markkisen [~hestporr@h22n1fls301o1037.telia.com] has joined #openttd 07:49:33 *** MarkSlap [~hestporr@h22n1fls301o1037.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:50:47 *** HMage [hmage@89-178-10-247.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 07:53:30 *** Thomas[NL] [~thomas@vdburgt.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 07:54:07 *** Alanin is now known as alanin 08:03:40 *** Markkisen [~hestporr@h22n1fls301o1037.telia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:04:30 *** Markkisen [~hestporr@h22n1fls301o1037.telia.com] has joined #openttd 08:08:09 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A583F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:24:48 *** Markkisen [~hestporr@h22n1fls301o1037.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:28:28 *** thgergo [~th_gergo@dsl51B65D02.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:30:05 *** Markkisen [~hestporr@h22n1fls301o1037.telia.com] has joined #openttd 08:31:06 *** tokai|ni [~tokai@p54B81E9F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:32:40 *** tokai|ni [~tokai@p54B8406F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 08:41:21 *** HMage [hmage@89-178-10-247.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:43:14 <Hendikins> Hrm, I'm finding ottd runs much better on the 64bit box 08:44:19 *** elmex [~elmex@e180064164.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 08:45:08 *** Markkisen [~hestporr@h22n1fls301o1037.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:45:21 <peter1138> does it happen to also be faster? 08:45:42 <Hendikins> Actually, no 08:46:12 <Hendikins> This is a 1600MHz Sempron (64bit) vs a 2000MHz Barton (32bit), both with 1 gig RAM 08:46:43 <Hendikins> (The 32bit machine is dualproc, but that isn't particularly relevant) 08:47:36 *** helb [~helb@84.244.90.159] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:49:23 *** helb [~helb@84.244.90.159] has joined #openttd 08:53:18 *** Markkisen [~hestporr@h22n1fls301o1037.telia.com] has joined #openttd 08:59:35 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has joined #openttd 09:04:31 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: KUDr * r10292 /trunk/src/stdafx.h: -Fix: suppress VC 7.1 warning: "\src\texteff.cpp(251) : warning C4258: 'y' : definition from the for loop is ignored; the definition from the enclosing scope is used" which prevents compilation on MSVC 2003 09:18:34 *** lolman [~lolman@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:31:46 *** HMage [HMage@89-178-107-192.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 09:42:28 *** TinoM| [~Tino@i5387C2A6.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 09:43:26 *** TinoM [~Tino@i5387C2A6.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:43:51 <stillunknown> Hendikins: The amd64 architecture is faster per mhz, and ofcource the usage of int64 doesn't hinder a 64bits arch. 09:47:17 *** XeryusTC [~irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has joined #openttd 09:49:28 <TrueBrain> @op 09:49:29 *** mode/#openttd [+o TrueBrain] by DorpsGek 09:49:47 *** dfox [~dfox@r5cv25.net.upc.cz] has joined #openttd 09:54:26 <stillunknown> Can functions inherit like classes can? 09:54:59 <eekee> what would they inherit? 09:55:21 <stillunknown> A piece of common code. 09:55:46 <stillunknown> But now that i think of it, it would be strange. 09:55:56 <eekee> yeah ^^' 09:56:19 <eekee> I'd guess to move the common code to an inline func 09:57:12 *** Osai [~Osai@pD9EB6DE0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:58:24 <stillunknown> Hello Osai. 10:00:45 *** Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x50c79adc.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 10:00:46 *** mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ 10:00:46 *** Osai [~Osai@pD9EB6DE0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 10:00:53 *** Osai [~Osai@pD9EB6DE0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:01:00 <Osai> hi 10:01:14 <stillunknown> eekee: if i inline a virtual function into a non-virtual function, will that even work? 10:01:30 <eekee> stillunknown: ok now I'm lost :) 10:02:15 <stillunknown> I'm considering a two stage vehicle controller, one with common code, which then calls the second stage. 10:02:41 <stillunknown> Obviously the second needs differs greatly between the vehicles, and that needs to be virtual. 10:02:55 <stillunknown> So i can define different functions for different vehicle types/ 10:04:28 <eekee> why are you tryig to do it in one function? 10:04:50 <stillunknown> Make the code more pretty and reduce code duplication. 10:05:41 <stillunknown> I already have a single tick function, next task would be the controller. 10:06:03 <Noldo> so a vehiclecontroller class with specific ones derived from that? 10:06:15 <eekee> sounds like a job for a class, yeah 10:06:35 <stillunknown> Obviously those functions are in the vehicle class. 10:06:40 <eekee> Oh & IMHO, great big 'megafunctions' are never pretty :D 10:07:15 <stillunknown> I don't want great megafunctions, i even cut up the TrainController, since it was too large for my taste. 10:07:23 <Hendikins> *growl* nothing more annoying than industries and towns that seem impossible to bribe when trying to build a straight, level express line 10:07:25 <eekee> /me's "I hate OOP" swtich just tripped 10:07:45 <eekee> heh 10:07:56 <eekee> Hendikins: patience works 8) 10:08:26 <eekee> stillunknown: sounds like you want to subclass the vehicle class, am I right? 10:08:35 <stillunknown> This is already done. 10:08:37 <Hendikins> So does cloning pax trains in the mean time because 40 isn't enough 10:08:39 <stillunknown> In trunk. 10:08:47 <eekee> heheh 10:09:04 * eekee blinks 10:09:34 <eekee> Augh I give up, lol 10:10:26 <eekee> Ugh, brain won't stop. Can't you subclass the subclasses? I thought that was a principle of OOP... 10:10:50 <stillunknown> The subclasses in place are fine. 10:11:15 <stillunknown> I'm just considering what to do with aircraft, they work very differently from everything else. 10:11:27 <eekee> no, they're not, because they're preventing you from implementing your vehicle controller 10:12:11 <stillunknown> I currently have a virtual vehicle controller, defined for each type. 10:12:23 <eekee> nvm 10:12:30 <peter1138> 2.48 12.14 0.56 3851 0.00 0.00 CargoPacket::AllocateRaw() 10:12:39 <peter1138> 0.00 22.37 0.00 3851 0.00 0.00 CargoPacket::AllocateRaw() 10:12:43 <peter1138> better ;) 10:13:16 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host160-233-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 10:13:25 <Wolf01> hello 10:13:37 <stillunknown> eekee: Most controller functions are predicable, increase tick counter, check for crash, check for reverse, do loading stuff 10:13:46 <eekee> mmhmm 10:14:05 <Wolf01> now i'm a lucky owner of transport tycoon, after a difficult search i found it! 10:14:13 <eekee> yay! 10:14:46 <stillunknown> eekee: But currently the controller's have varying names and sometimes stuff is in the wrong place. 10:15:02 <eekee> ahh, & you're trying to clean it up 10:15:41 <stillunknown> I'm going to do as much cleanup as i can, then i'll force someone to put it into trunk ;-) 10:15:49 <eekee> haha! 10:16:48 <eekee> Well, all I can say is that cleaning up often requires changing the structure, hence my comment that maybe the current subclassing isn't "just fine" & may need to be subclassed futher 10:17:08 *** DJ_Mirage [~sexybigge@biggetje.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 10:17:12 <stillunknown> Maybe for aircraft 10:17:28 <stillunknown> helicopter and aircraft issue 10:17:55 <eekee> ah right *nod* 10:18:57 *** Wolf01 is now known as Guest131 10:18:57 *** Wolfolo|AWAY [~wolf01@host44-237-dynamic.4-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 10:18:57 *** Wolfolo|AWAY is now known as Wolf01 10:19:32 *** peter1138 changed the topic of #openttd to: 0.5.2 | Website: *.openttd.org (DevBlog: blog, Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, WIKI: wiki, SVN mailinglist: maillist, Dev-docs: docs, Bug-reports: bugs) | #openttd.notice for FS + SVN notices 10:19:36 <peter1138> hmm 10:19:38 <peter1138> wtf 10:20:04 *** peter1138 changed the topic of #openttd to: 0.5.2 | Website: *.openttd.org (DevBlog: blog, Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, WIKI: wiki, SVN mailinglist: maillist, Dev-docs: docs, Bug-reports: bugs) | #openttd.notice for FS + SVN notices 10:20:13 <peter1138> no idea :o 10:21:59 *** Purno [~Purno@5357D37C.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 10:22:06 <Biff> hmm, what is "FS"? 10:22:16 <XeryusTC> fly spray 10:22:21 <Biff> ah 10:23:38 *** dihedral [~dihedral@dslb-084-057-242-187.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 10:24:16 *** setrodox [setrodox@83-65-232-84.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #openttd 10:24:49 *** Guest131 [~wolf01@host160-233-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:25:47 <dihedral> mornin 10:26:24 <eekee> ahoy hoy 10:26:32 <dihedral> aye 10:27:48 <dihedral> my word - it was a little too late for my tast :-P 10:27:52 <dihedral> +e 10:28:01 <eekee> yeah, heh 10:33:29 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A583F.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #openttd [] 10:39:29 *** Osai [~Osai@pD9EB6DE0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Osai] 10:40:01 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host44-237-dynamic.4-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:40:11 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1D871.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:42:21 *** lolman [~lolman@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 10:46:21 <TrueBrain> lalalala 10:47:18 *** Osai [~Osai@pD9EB6DE0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:48:34 <peter1138> 4 las? 10:49:13 <TrueBrain> I was bored 10:50:11 <peter1138> i see 10:56:40 *** Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-62-167-42-124.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:58:00 * Hendikins wonders why his dual head T.I.M.s aren't being replaced with dual head AsiaStars, even though they're supposed to be getting replaced and the trains are going to depots 10:58:55 *** Chris82 [~chris@p579E1A62.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:01:57 *** re06011988 [~RE0601198@ADijon-152-1-107-21.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 11:02:25 <Chris82> good morning 11:02:36 <Chris82> does it help city growth when I build roads for them? 11:02:49 <TrueBrain> a bit, not much 11:03:05 <TrueBrain> the town-groth sometimes trades house-building for road-building 11:03:07 <TrueBrain> but that is all 11:03:51 <Chris82> ok then I can save myself a lot of time :D 11:04:02 <Hendikins> Is autoreplace supposed to ignore dual head + dual end trains? 11:05:06 * Hendikins would really not like to have to manually upgrade 150-odd trains 11:06:59 *** alanin is now known as Alanin 11:06:59 <dihedral> TrueBrain: saw you patched the smooth_economy stuff :-) 11:07:30 <Chris82> Hendikins I though that was a bug that got fixed recently 11:08:18 * Hendikins svn ups to latest 11:08:28 * Hendikins was at r10201 or so. 11:08:43 <dihedral> nice 11:14:39 *** thgergo [~th_gergo@dsl51B65D02.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #openttd 11:14:39 *** re06011988 [~RE0601198@ADijon-152-1-107-21.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:14:43 *** re06011988 [~RE0601198@ADijon-152-1-107-21.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 11:18:13 <Hendikins> Chris82: Apparently not. 11:18:43 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@212-182-130-7.dsl.ip.tiscali.nl] has quit [Server closed connection] 11:18:44 *** lolman [~lolman@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:18:52 <Hendikins> Even with r10292 my dual head T.I.M.s are not being autoreplaced. 11:18:55 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@212-182-130-7.dsl.ip.tiscali.nl] has joined #openttd 11:29:08 <dihedral> does autoclean_protected = 0 in the mean time mean that protected companies are never purged? 11:29:53 *** Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-62-167-42-124.adslplus.ch] has joined #openttd 11:32:11 *** Haclet [~haclet@77-97-206-88.cable.ubr11.edin.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 11:32:28 <Haclet> Hi 11:32:32 <Haclet> I have question 11:32:38 <Haclet> What the timetable is ? 11:32:43 <Haclet> How can I use it? 11:33:07 <dihedral> by downloading the latest nightly (or anything as of r10269) 11:33:07 <Haclet> It new future or was before and I didn't see it ? 11:33:16 <dihedral> new... very new 11:33:20 <dihedral> 4 days perhaps 11:33:27 <Haclet> WOW :) 11:33:34 <Haclet> So - how can I use it ? 11:33:47 <dihedral> but you need a nightly build not a stable build... openttd.org/nightly i believe 11:34:09 <Haclet> I have last version from SVN 11:34:22 <dihedral> good 11:34:29 <Eddi|zuHause3> Haclet: open train orders window, on the top right there is timetable 11:34:35 <Eddi|zuHause3> then assign a time for each item 11:34:45 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A49DE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:34:48 <Eddi|zuHause3> if the train takes less time than that, it will wait 11:34:48 <Haclet> Yes I know where it is, but how can I use IT ? 11:34:57 <Eddi|zuHause3> time is in days 11:35:12 <Haclet> so that means that I can set for example 10days for coal, 5 days for something else ? 11:35:32 <dihedral> just try it :-) 11:35:45 <Haclet> dihedral: GOOOD Answer - 11:35:52 <eekee> lol 11:35:59 <Eddi|zuHause3> you can e.g. tell your slow freight trains to wait at a station, while an express train is scheduled to pass through and overtake 11:35:59 <Haclet> As soon as I will have tami 11:36:03 <Haclet> time 11:36:10 <eekee> TT's always had a "try it & see" interface, lol 11:36:14 <eekee> :) 11:36:20 <Haclet> take care - I have to do some diuties - no games for this moment ;) 11:36:40 <Haclet> eekee: right LOL 11:36:46 <eekee> ^^; 11:36:48 <Haclet> thank you 11:36:51 <Haclet> see you soon 11:36:53 <Haclet> bye 11:36:55 *** Haclet [~haclet@77-97-206-88.cable.ubr11.edin.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [] 11:37:09 <Chris82> Hendikins: Hmm that dual train bug is weird. The dual head trains in the DB Set XL are replaced without problems. 11:37:47 * eekee tries it 11:38:10 <dihedral> i thought it was a good answer :-) 11:38:15 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host178-62-dynamic.56-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 11:38:17 <dihedral> a "learn by doing" answer 11:38:24 *** Nigel [~nigel@202.154.148.243] has joined #openttd 11:38:57 *** |re06011988| [~RE0601198@ADijon-152-1-107-21.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 11:40:09 *** Nigel_ [~nigel@202.154.148.243] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:40:18 <Chris82> I used the time table on an extremely huge passenger circle line on a 2048x2048 map 11:40:33 <Chris82> it works well to keep a an approx. set distance between the trains 11:40:49 <Chris82> so I don't have 50 trains in one corner of the circle line but instead spread all over the line 11:41:07 <dihedral> would be cool if the station rating changed depending on if a train is how late or on time :-) 11:41:16 <Chris82> I don't know how useful it is for express / cargo train issues, I never use the same tracks for passenger and cargo lines 11:41:16 <dihedral> or the town's rating 11:43:03 <peter1138> getting the time table right is tricky 11:43:14 * Chris82 nods 11:43:34 <dihedral> unfort yes 11:43:54 <Chris82> but I think once I figured all the tricks out it becomes a great and useful feature 11:43:58 <dihedral> i would be cool if there was an 'history' 11:43:59 <Chris82> right now it's more trial and error :p 11:44:17 <dihedral> all trains in this shared order too an average of x days for this 11:44:30 <eekee> Trains only get replaced when they go in for servicing, right? 11:44:37 <dihedral> aye 11:44:44 <Chris82> with auto replace? 11:44:48 <dihedral> aye 11:44:50 <Chris82> they get replaced whenever you set the option 11:45:01 <Chris82> servicing can be disabled that's no problem in the latest nightlies (was before tho) 11:45:15 <dihedral> Chris82: they still have to visit a depot to get replaced! 11:45:20 <Chris82> yes sure 11:45:28 <eekee> mine aren't going into the depot at all O.o 11:45:33 <Chris82> but you don't need to send them there and enable servicing 11:45:50 <eekee> may be a 'fault' in my test track, but I don't see it 11:45:56 <Chris82> huh? you must have a depot somewhere on your tracks, otherwise how did you build the trains? 11:46:03 *** re06011988 [~RE0601198@ADijon-152-1-107-21.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:46:18 <dihedral> you have breakdowns turned off? 11:46:35 <dihedral> and possible service if breackdowns are off = disabled? 11:46:38 <Chris82> I have breakdowns off and disabled servicing. But auto replace works fine anyway. 11:47:08 <Chris82> It didn't in earlier versions of auto replace because then trains only got replaced on the normal service intervals. 11:47:15 <Chris82> But as I said that's no issue in the latest nightlies 11:47:17 <eekee> Oh, my trains were waiting for the servicing interval to come up 11:47:24 <eekee> oh 11:47:41 <eekee> hm 11:47:44 <Chris82> which version are you using? 11:48:48 <eekee> r10201 11:49:04 <Chris82> then auto replace should definitely work without servicing 11:49:17 <eekee> It didn't :) 11:49:28 <Chris82> can you send me a savegame? 11:49:36 <Chris82> so I can see if I find an error in the network 11:49:52 <eekee> Well, servicing was enabled, maybe when dervicing is disabled it works differently -- sure 11:50:27 <Chris82> well but if it works with servicing disabled and doesn't work with enabled servicing it would be really weird 11:51:05 <eekee> sending 11:51:10 <eekee> yeah, but possible :D 11:51:17 <Chris82> did you try to DCC me? 11:51:21 <eekee> yeah 11:51:25 <Chris82> that is disabled here 11:51:28 <Chris82> can you upload it? 11:51:28 <eekee> oh 11:51:33 <eekee> sure! 11:53:28 <eekee> http://homepage.ntlworld.com/ethan.grammatikidis/eekee-veh-replace-test.sav 11:56:14 <Chris82> hmmm interesting 11:57:11 <Chris82> they are not replaced indeed but there's no way this track has pathfinding problems 11:58:23 <Chris82> it only works when I send them manually to servicing 11:58:26 <Chris82> otherwise nothing happens 11:58:28 <Chris82> that is strange 12:00:08 <Chris82> this might be the dual head problem Hendikins spoke about before 12:00:24 <Chris82> steam and single head electrified railway is replaced properly 12:00:57 <eekee> Yes. I was playing with Hendikins, I replaced single-headers fine earlier in the same game with r10201 12:02:34 <Chris82> hmm I will try if I can reproduce that in a game I created myself 12:02:37 <eekee> Incidentally I made that test with r10201, perhaps the error hangs on from the old version? r9936 or therabouts had a problem with ufo shadows persisting after the ufo had blown up, & you load up a save game with those shadows in a newer version & then shadows are still there 12:04:06 <Bjarni> can anybody tell me the name of a known good industry newGRF? 12:04:15 <Bjarni> known good as in "works with trunk" 12:04:33 <peter1138> uh none? 12:04:55 <Bjarni> that would explain why this didn't work 12:05:02 <eekee> trunk supports new industies now? 12:05:05 <peter1138> no 12:05:09 <Bjarni> I guess not 12:05:27 <eekee> o ok 12:06:02 *** re06011988 [~RE0601198@ADijon-152-1-107-21.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 12:08:49 *** Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x50c79adc.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:12:50 *** |re06011988| [~RE0601198@ADijon-152-1-107-21.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:14:06 <Eddi|zuHause3> wasn't there a purely graphical factory replacement? :p 12:15:43 *** redmonkey [~redmonkey@p54A05ED8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:18:01 <eekee> oh graphical replacement works, yeah. The Mars grf does that, on openttd 12:19:10 *** Purno [~Purno@5357D37C.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Quit: Life is a game of pick-up-sticks, played by fucking lunatics.] 12:19:15 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A49DE.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #openttd [] 12:21:31 *** lugo [~lugo@pD95820DB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:28:34 *** CIA-1 [~CIA@208.69.182.149] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:30:08 *** Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-62-167-42-124.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:38:23 *** |re06011988| [~RE0601198@ADijon-152-1-107-21.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 12:39:07 *** Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-62-167-42-124.adslplus.ch] has joined #openttd 12:40:13 *** benc_ [~benc_@va-71-53-204-176.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #openttd 12:43:26 *** re06011988 [~RE0601198@ADijon-152-1-107-21.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:44:00 *** Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-62-167-42-124.adslplus.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:45:49 <Smoovious> I think I have that graphical factory replacement if ya want it 12:46:31 <Caemyr> ? 12:47:49 <Smoovious> answering something someone else said 30min ago 12:50:02 <Eddi|zuHause3> ugh... that lightning was close... 12:50:32 <Eddi|zuHause3> Smoovious: i don't think that was what he actually asked for :p 12:50:34 <Smoovious> oh sorry, my bad.... >moves it a few miles further north< 12:50:48 <Smoovious> that was to you, Eddi|zuHause3. :P 12:51:05 <Eddi|zuHause3> i was only replying to something else 12:51:33 *** benc_ [~benc_@va-71-53-204-176.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has left #openttd [] 12:51:39 <Smoovious> brb 12:51:49 *** re06011988 [~RE0601198@ADijon-152-1-107-21.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 12:51:49 *** benc_ [~benc_@va-71-53-204-176.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #openttd 12:51:59 <Eddi|zuHause3> and the question was rhethorical... hence the ":p" 12:58:40 *** |re06011988| [~RE0601198@ADijon-152-1-107-21.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:02:14 *** SmatZ [~root@a40-prg1-5-107.static.adsl.vol.cz] has joined #openttd 13:02:33 *** Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-62-167-42-124.adslplus.ch] has joined #openttd 13:07:45 <Smoovious> ib 13:08:27 <Smoovious> yeah, but I tend to play straight-man a lot... a lot of things are funnier when there's one person who acts like h e doesn't get it. :D 13:09:52 <dihedral> is there any way one could get a screenshot from the intro screen with out the menu in front? 13:10:37 <Eddi|zuHause3> yes, rename the .dat to .sav and load it 13:10:45 <dihedral> :-) thanks 13:19:37 *** orudge` is now known as orudge 13:22:07 *** Alanin is now known as alanin 13:23:19 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1D871.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:23:44 *** KritiK [Maxim@ppp85-141-226-206.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #openttd 13:23:50 *** lugo [~lugo@pD95820DB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 13:24:43 *** Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-62-167-42-124.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:25:17 *** Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-62-167-42-124.adslplus.ch] has joined #openttd 13:28:57 *** |re06011988| [~RE0601198@ADijon-152-1-107-21.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 13:33:25 *** Osai [~Osai@pD9EB6DE0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Osai] 13:34:44 *** Osai [~Osai@pD9EB6DE0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 13:35:55 *** lolman [~lolman@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 13:36:01 *** re06011988 [~RE0601198@ADijon-152-1-107-21.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:42:11 *** scia [~scia@85.149.96.102] has joined #openttd 13:44:25 *** redmonkey [~redmonkey@p54A05ED8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: quit] 13:45:36 *** kaan [~Klaus@82.192.152.195] has joined #openttd 13:45:40 <kaan> hi all 13:47:01 <TrueBrain> hi kaan 13:48:06 <dihedral> hello 13:52:09 <kaan> :) 13:52:49 <kaan> so what new breathtaking features sneaked into trunk since i went to bed last noght? 13:52:57 <kaan> night* 13:55:25 <dihedral> network_udp.cpp: FOR_ALL_CLIENTS(cs) 13:55:33 <dihedral> how are they sorted 13:55:39 <TrueBrain> not 13:55:40 <dihedral> i.e. latest join first? 13:55:42 <dihedral> ok 13:55:45 <dihedral> thx 14:01:12 <stillunknown> OTTD is a mess in some ways, but i suppose you all knew that. 14:01:32 <TrueBrain> depends on to what you refer 14:02:17 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A5B15.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 14:02:26 <stillunknown> There is consistency between vehicle functions. 14:02:32 <stillunknown> One does DoThis() 14:02:40 <stillunknown> other: Don'tDoThis() 14:02:56 <stillunknown> yet another: DoThis(i want more args) 14:03:18 <stillunknown> Also there is no well defined structure were things should be done. 14:03:31 <stillunknown> Either in a tick, or in the vehicle controller, etc. 14:03:43 <TrueBrain> so you only complain about lack of documentation 14:03:43 <stillunknown> But don't worry, i'm doing my best ;-) 14:03:50 <TrueBrain> that you can resolve yourself :) 14:04:03 <stillunknown> I'm busy restructuring some things. 14:04:19 <TrueBrain> I am hungry, but as I am going on vacation, I don't really feel like buying new stuff, so I only have things I don't like to eat that much... 14:04:21 <TrueBrain> annoying :) 14:05:48 <kaan> well, find the stuff in the back and eat it with your eyes closed then :P 14:06:02 <TrueBrain> I don't have stuff 'in the back' 14:06:06 <TrueBrain> I am a pretty clean guy :) 14:06:09 <TrueBrain> I think :p 14:06:22 <kaan> i meant like canned fish or something 14:06:48 <TrueBrain> aawwwhhhh :p 14:06:50 <TrueBrain> aa = oo 14:07:15 <kaan> or make pasta with kethup 14:07:22 <TrueBrain> I hate pasta 14:07:24 <TrueBrain> really, I do 14:07:38 <kaan> hehe, theres no pleaseing you i guess 14:07:49 <TrueBrain> nope :) 14:07:51 <TrueBrain> yeah, good patches 14:07:53 <TrueBrain> that pleases me :) 14:08:02 <kaan> well im fresh out ;) 14:08:18 <eekee> Tuna + bread == meal :d 14:08:28 <kaan> eekee: exactly! 14:08:32 <eekee> :D 14:08:44 <eekee> need a lil bit of veg too, but can skip it 14:09:10 <kaan> TrueBrain: where are you going on vacation? 14:09:19 <TrueBrain> France! Viva La France! 14:09:23 <eekee> where's the trancparency options gone? 14:09:29 <kaan> nice 14:09:31 <TrueBrain> eekee: where it should have been all along 14:09:38 <TrueBrain> eekee: try to look in the most logic place to find it :) 14:09:56 <eekee> TrueBrain: What, under map? Oh I know, under config 14:10:02 <kaan> then you should get good food :D 14:10:04 *** re06011988 [~RE0601198@ADijon-152-1-107-21.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 14:10:10 <eekee> ya tee why 14:10:13 <TrueBrain> eekee: exactly :) Under map wasn't really... logic :p 14:10:43 <eekee> *shrugs* It made sense to me :) But then it wasn't with the other view options 14:11:08 <TrueBrain> it made sense to you?! 14:11:11 <TrueBrain> iek! 14:11:40 <stillunknown> I never found the old place, i noticed it a day or two ago for the first time. 14:14:35 <Eddi|zuHause3> <TrueBrain> France! Viva La France! <- it's "vive la france", isn't it? 14:14:52 <TrueBrain> who cares 14:14:58 <Smoovious> TrueBrain... do you still put together openttd .torrents? 14:15:01 <Eddi|zuHause3> viva sounds more like italian 14:15:05 <TrueBrain> hmm, torrents 14:15:07 <TrueBrain> I should update them 14:16:08 <Smoovious> well, reason I ask is I keep a client (2 actually) running 24/7... if ya want someone to help seed, I'm willing... can set something up to autoload them 14:16:19 <TrueBrain> feel free :) 14:16:38 <Smoovious> do you have them on an rss? 14:16:40 *** |re06011988| [~RE0601198@ADijon-152-1-107-21.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:17:45 *** benc_ [~benc_@va-71-53-204-176.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has left #openttd [] 14:17:59 <TrueBrain> nope, the page you see there is all we have 14:18:13 <Smoovious> oh... 14:18:52 <Smoovious> well, will see what I can set up when ya get back 14:19:17 <Smoovious> and thnx for the commit. :D 14:19:22 *** Haos [Caemyr@82-43-152-123.cable.ubr03.nmal.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 14:25:16 *** Caemyr [Caemyr@82.43.152.123] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:25:46 *** Haos is now known as Caemyr 14:36:55 *** HMage [HMage@89-178-107-192.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: HMage] 14:37:35 *** HMage [hmage@89-178-107-192.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 14:45:28 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 14:45:31 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 14:50:23 *** Tobin [~Tobin@c58-107-50-36.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 14:52:55 *** oxygene_ [~oxygene@p50806E31.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:00:56 *** |re06011988| [~RE0601198@ADijon-152-1-24-183.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 15:02:09 <Phazorx> can anyone suggest a way to debug hard crashes? 15:02:27 <Phazorx> it gets very anoying and isnt responce to my actions since last few times i been idle 15:07:08 *** re06011988 [~RE0601198@ADijon-152-1-107-21.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:12:04 <TrueBrain> so, what next.... 15:12:46 <stillunknown> Phazorx: does it give asserts? 15:12:51 <Phazorx> stillunknown: hard crush 15:12:55 <Phazorx> CTD 15:12:59 <Phazorx> *crash 15:13:16 <stillunknown> Run it in a debugger, backtrace it when it crashes. 15:13:31 <Phazorx> win32 here :/ 15:13:50 <Phazorx> i guess gdb from mingw would do 15:15:42 <stillunknown> But don't expect to run any mega games in a usefull way. 15:15:51 <Eddi|zuHause3> compile with debug symbols first... 15:16:09 <stillunknown> Because a debug build isn't optimized or stripped of it's symbols. 15:16:10 <Phazorx> Eddi|zuHause3: i might ened more detailed instructions 15:16:30 <Eddi|zuHause3> ./configure --help? 15:16:56 <TrueBrain> ./configure --enable-debug is enough :p 15:17:14 <Phazorx> nothing fancy like linking gdb? 15:17:39 <Eddi|zuHause3> gdb should be already installed 15:17:50 <Phazorx> not in mingw here 15:17:56 <Phazorx> which is what came with bottd 15:18:07 <TrueBrain> that we can't help/fix/solve 15:18:07 <TrueBrain> :) 15:18:13 <Eddi|zuHause3> then install it :) 15:18:20 <Phazorx> i'l get gdb 15:18:36 <Phazorx> once i fugure out how i can branch local svn copies 15:18:36 <Phazorx> s 15:18:49 <Phazorx> so i have latest with profiling along with 10170 15:19:20 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-166-77.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:22:04 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1D871.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:22:55 <Eddi|zuHause3> md openttd-r#####; cd openttd-r#####; svn export <URL> -r ##### 15:23:31 <Eddi|zuHause3> if you intend to svn update later, use svn checkout instead of svn export 15:24:22 <Phazorx> Eddi|zuHause3: i was hoping to avoid 2 sources 15:24:58 <Eddi|zuHause3> if you want to have different revisions, you need different sources... 15:25:29 <Eddi|zuHause3> but after compiling you can delete everything outside the bin/ dir 15:31:52 <Phazorx> well that was a bad start 15:31:57 <Phazorx> gdb fails to compile 15:32:18 <Phazorx> in sys/time.h 15:32:22 <Phazorx> weird 15:33:24 <glx> gdb is included in msys 15:35:06 <glx> mingw32-gdb.exe 15:35:07 <Phazorx> wasnt ehre 15:38:20 <Ammler> Phazorx: you can also reconfigure with revision=rXXXXX, but I would also suggest to use more than one source 15:39:01 <Eddi|zuHause3> Phazorx: but you don't need to compile it 15:39:12 <Eddi|zuHause3> Ammler: that will never work correctly... 15:40:02 <Ammler> If the different sources not much behind, it worked for me well, at least I made it so long time 15:41:22 <Eddi|zuHause3> Ammler: that was really just a coincidence 15:42:29 <Ammler> indeed, last year I had some desyncs, but since I rejoined this year, it worked well 15:42:58 <Ammler> now I work with different chckouts too 15:47:49 <Ammler> 32bpp is in the trunk now, but I miss one more zoom in step, how do I activate that? 15:48:01 <glx> code it 15:48:12 <Ammler> but it was in the 32bpp already 15:48:50 <glx> the 32bpp in trunk is very different from the branch 15:51:23 <Phazorx> ugm glx where do i get that debuger? 15:51:37 *** wolfy is now known as Wolfensteijn 15:51:55 <Smoovious> Ortho makes a good debugger... .. . 15:53:55 <stillunknown> I wonder why people bother with so called integrated builds, they end being ugly kludges that die after a while 15:54:17 <glx> Phazorx: http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=2435&package_id=82721&release_id=158852 15:54:33 <Smoovious> because they're good for testing things out that haven't made it into trunk yet 15:54:59 <Phazorx> thank you 15:55:11 <stillunknown> But identifying bugs is troublesome with many patches. 15:55:20 <stillunknown> And some people use it just to use it. 15:55:47 <Smoovious> it isn't testing specific bugs, but for overall usability, and how they interact with each other 15:56:02 <Smoovious> there's more to testing than looking for errors 15:56:36 *** re06011988 [~RE0601198@ADijon-152-1-24-183.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 15:57:06 <Smoovious> they make integrateds for the same reason they make branches... 15:57:33 <Smoovious> don't like em, don't use em, but they get something out of it, even if you can't see it 15:57:40 <stillunknown> But branches are for the purpose of eventually being merged back, and they are usually by one or a small group of authors. 15:57:50 <Smoovious> so? 15:58:42 <stillunknown> It's a temporary fork, which is bound to die. 15:58:49 <Smoovious> again... so? 15:59:20 <Smoovious> people like to try out stuff... what's so hard to understand about that? 15:59:36 <stillunknown> It's better to spend time to get 10-15% of those patches included in trunk, much better on the long run. 15:59:59 <eekee> P0otentially much more boring though :d 16:00:26 <Smoovious> and branches are for the purpose of trying stuff out without messing up the trunk... a branch is not necessarily intended to be merged back... some do... more often than not, they don't 16:00:39 <Smoovious> better according to who? 16:01:05 <Smoovious> do y ou really think people don't intend for their patches to make it into t runk? 16:01:29 <stillunknown> Most people do, but a lot don't enter. 16:01:42 <Smoovious> so what? 16:02:02 <Smoovious> you're not quite onto the whole concept of what open source i s, are ya? 16:02:32 <Smoovious> people h ave the freedom to try things out... 16:02:38 *** |re06011988| [~RE0601198@ADijon-152-1-24-183.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:02:58 <Smoovious> if they get added into trunk, fine, but the majority of patches offered, don't make it into trunk 16:04:00 <stillunknown> But maintaining a large combination of patches on a fast moving target like openttd, is a bad idea imo. 16:04:02 <Smoovious> if nothing else, it is a learning experience for the people involved... and even if they don't make it into trunk, the process has been very valuable for them... 16:04:21 <Smoovious> I disagree... I see it as a very good idea 16:04:59 <TrueBrain> good ... bad .... it has its ups and its downs 16:05:02 <Smoovious> and very positive for the project 16:05:47 <Smoovious> if people weren't trying out new things independently, would t he project be as far along as it is now? 16:05:51 <eekee> It's a game, development is unpaid, if the developers don't get to have their fun as & when the fancy, who would code it at all? 16:06:14 <Smoovious> free your mind. :) 16:06:16 *** Tobin [~Tobin@c58-107-50-36.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Tobin] 16:06:44 *** |re06011988| [~RE0601198@ADijon-152-1-24-183.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 16:08:16 <stillunknown> I like an active community as well. 16:08:33 <Smoovious> then quit bitching about it being active. :P 16:09:07 <Smoovious> someone wouldn't let you play on their server, is that it? cuz, I don't get what the problem is 16:10:08 <TrueBrain> I am bored 16:10:15 <stillunknown> I never even touch patch builds, so that's not the problem. 16:10:19 <Smoovious> when do you split for France? 16:10:26 <TrueBrain> in 5 days 16:10:29 <Smoovious> stillunknown... youor choice 16:10:38 <Smoovious> TrueBrain... how long ya gonna be gone for? 16:10:42 <TrueBrain> 12days 16:10:49 <Smoovious> not bad... 16:10:54 <TrueBrain> indeed :) 16:11:15 <Smoovious> whatcha planning to do once ya get there? 16:11:21 <TrueBrain> travel 16:11:24 <TrueBrain> enjoy 16:11:27 <TrueBrain> do nothing 16:11:42 <Smoovious> just see where the current takes you/ 16:11:51 <TrueBrain> I have a car 16:11:53 <TrueBrain> so , yeah 16:11:59 <Smoovious> nice 16:12:25 <Smoovious> I hate scheduled vacations myself... like to do the random drive... 16:12:37 <eekee> Yeah me too ^_^ 16:12:38 <Smoovious> end up finding much more interesting places that way 16:13:21 *** re06011988 [~RE0601198@ADijon-152-1-24-183.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:13:26 <TrueBrain> yup 16:13:29 <TrueBrain> so we will see :) 16:13:37 <Smoovious> hope ya have a good time 16:13:41 <TrueBrain> hmm, a desert that is 3 weeks over its date... 16:13:46 <TrueBrain> let's try it 16:13:46 <dihedral> aye - from here too 16:14:08 <TrueBrain> tnx, I will :) 16:14:18 <TrueBrain> but I ahve 2 days left of coding :p 16:14:21 <TrueBrain> and I am bored to dead 16:14:29 <dihedral> TrueBrain: when you start dreaming ottd stuff - you know you need another few days away :-D 16:14:57 <dihedral> why are you bored? 16:15:03 <TrueBrain> it smells okay 16:15:09 <TrueBrain> it tastes oky 16:15:11 <TrueBrain> can I assume it is okay? 16:15:21 <Smoovious> what is it? 16:15:22 <dihedral> what are you looking at? 16:15:30 <TrueBrain> a desert 16:15:39 <dihedral> if its milk or meat and its off itll make you through up 16:15:42 <dihedral> how old is it? 16:15:52 <Phazorx> ouch 16:15:54 <TrueBrain> 5 weeks old, 3 weeks over its date :p 16:15:55 <Phazorx> 20887629 Jun 23 12:15 openttd.exe 16:15:59 <Phazorx> 20M lol 16:16:02 <Smoovious> was it frozen? 16:16:09 <dihedral> depends on how nice you want your holiday to be 16:16:23 <TrueBrain> not frozeh 16:16:30 <Smoovious> yeah, better be on the safe side this close to departure and just toss it 16:16:31 <TrueBrain> I hate dates on stuff 16:16:35 <TrueBrain> it is never correct 16:16:38 <TrueBrain> nah 16:16:40 <TrueBrain> I am eating it :) 16:16:41 <dihedral> if you dont mind stopping the car every 5 mins to take a dump... go ahead :-D 16:16:47 * Smoovious shakes his head. 16:16:54 <kaan> good luck with that TrueBrain 16:17:05 <dihedral> what people do when they are bored 16:17:10 <TrueBrain> and it tastest gooooooddd!!! :) 16:17:41 <dihedral> lets just wait a day or 2 and see if your stomach sais the same 16:17:46 <stillunknown> Sick countdown: 20 minutes ;-) 16:17:48 <TrueBrain> will let you know :) 16:17:59 <kaan> id rather not know :P 16:18:00 <dihedral> just spare the details will ya 16:18:20 <TrueBrain> no pictures? 16:18:22 <TrueBrain> darn! 16:18:32 <Smoovious> try and take video of it when ya hurl 16:18:33 <dihedral> knock yourself out 16:18:41 <eekee> lololol 16:21:19 <TrueBrain> okay, I tossed it out 16:21:33 <kaan> quitter! :P 16:21:59 <kaan> so what else hides in the back where you found that? 16:22:14 <Smoovious> find a !tasty spot? 16:22:15 <TrueBrain> that was all 16:22:19 <TrueBrain> cleaning the fridge :) 16:22:31 <TrueBrain> only thing I have left is a 3 months old cheese 16:22:38 <TrueBrain> but it was too young when I bought it 16:22:49 <kaan> cheese is good 16:23:13 <TrueBrain> it sure is! 16:23:20 <dihedral> TrueBrain: cleanning out the fridge usually does not mean you have to eat it all too 16:23:38 <TrueBrain> dihedral: the content of my fridge is pretty harmless 16:23:54 <dihedral> what content the is not? 16:23:55 <Smoovious> usually a bad time for random snacking too 16:24:01 <dihedral> lol 16:24:51 <Smoovious> sometimes I find something so old, and can't figure out why I would have ever bought it in the first place, much less when 16:25:27 <Eddi|zuHause3> i do not like cheese... 16:26:24 <Eddi|zuHause3> except when baked on pizza or similar... 16:26:37 <Eddi|zuHause3> damn, now i am hungry :) 16:26:46 <kaan> me too 16:26:52 <kaan> i better get something 16:27:38 <TrueBrain> kaan: look luck with the back of your fridge :) 16:28:13 <kaan> lucky me i cleaned it out yesterday 16:28:53 <kaan> i think it will be pate on bread :D 16:28:58 <TrueBrain> enjoy :) 16:29:30 <kaan> or maybe canned fish :) 16:32:03 <dihedral> radio just said there was a tornado in frankfurt!! 16:32:05 <dihedral> hmmm 16:32:08 <dihedral> interesting 16:33:16 <Smoovious> would love to go weather-chasing one of these days 16:33:16 <Eddi|zuHause3> there was a tornado right in front of my window a while ago... 16:34:00 <dihedral> r u in frankfurt? 16:35:05 <Eddi|zuHause3> no... 16:35:14 <dihedral> well then 16:35:16 <Eddi|zuHause3> also... which frankfurt? 16:35:18 <dihedral> :-) 16:35:24 <dihedral> main 16:35:47 <dihedral> i guess they would have explicitly stated it otherwise ;-) 16:35:59 <dihedral> 'where do you live then? 16:36:27 <Eddi|zuHause3> about half way between both :) 16:36:33 <dihedral> lol 16:36:37 <TrueBrain> so between France and Germany 16:36:40 <TrueBrain> Luxemburg? :p 16:36:54 <Eddi|zuHause3> TrueBrain: ?? 16:36:58 <TrueBrain> haha :) 16:37:07 *** lolman [~lolman@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:38:03 *** thgergo [~th_gergo@dsl51B65D02.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:38:28 *** Osai^2 [~Osai@pD9EB7EFE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:39:04 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause3: old and bad joke from my friends :p 16:39:28 *** Markkisen [~hestporr@h22n1fls301o1037.telia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:39:33 *** Markkisen [~hestporr@h22n1fls301o1037.telia.com] has joined #openttd 16:40:52 <dihedral> that luxemburg was between the 2 frankfurts?? 16:40:58 <TrueBrain> yeah 16:41:01 <dihedral> hu 16:41:08 <dihedral> i can feel a giggle rising ... 16:41:09 <Eddi|zuHause3> i don't get it... 16:41:11 <dihedral> ah 16:41:12 <dihedral> no 16:41:14 <dihedral> sorry 16:41:26 <dihedral> was a sneeze 16:41:27 <TrueBrain> some friends of my are very bad in where to place what 16:41:34 <dihedral> ah 16:41:36 <dihedral> ok 16:41:41 <dihedral> then that would make sense 16:41:45 <TrueBrain> so hearing Frankfurt always makes me smile 16:41:50 <dihedral> :-) 16:41:58 <dihedral> ^ like that 16:42:15 <TrueBrain> (a friend said: I was going from Frankfurt to Frankfurt, it was fun! The other one said: so you came through Luxemburg?) 16:42:28 <dihedral> he 16:42:30 <dihedral> lol 16:42:49 <dihedral> if they were american you could excuse it 16:43:08 <Eddi|zuHause3> # Weil Frankfurt so groß ist, teilt man's in zwei ein 16:43:19 <Eddi|zuHause3> # in Frankfurt an der Oder und Frankfurt am Main 16:43:33 <Eddi|zuHause3> (popular german drinking tune) 16:43:50 <TrueBrain> why am I not suprised? 16:44:48 *** Osai [~Osai@pD9EB6DE0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:45:54 *** re06011988 [~RE0601198@ADijon-152-1-24-183.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 16:47:00 *** MarkSlap [~hestporr@h22n1fls301o1037.telia.com] has joined #openttd 16:48:07 <dihedral> :-) 16:50:31 <Ammler> dihedral: does or will your OpenTTDLib also support grfs? 16:50:59 <dihedral> working on it 16:51:04 <Ammler> cool :) 16:51:28 <dihedral> aparantly it will be bound to fail ( or not relyable acording to Rubidium) 16:51:31 <dihedral> but i shall try 16:51:47 <Smoovious> what is OpenTTDLib anyways? 16:51:59 <dihedral> php5 classes to query games 16:52:01 <Ammler> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=32659 16:52:32 <Smoovious> oh right... so you could put various state info on a page 16:52:32 <Ammler> will it also be possible to extract the infos from a save? 16:52:34 <dihedral> although yesterday evening i made a set of php4 ones 16:52:46 *** Markkisen [~hestporr@h22n1fls301o1037.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:52:49 <dihedral> check out http://openttdlib.dihedral.de/example2.php 16:52:55 *** |re06011988| [~RE0601198@ADijon-152-1-24-183.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:52:58 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 16:53:32 <dihedral> TrueBrain: would it be possible to let ottd know the timestamp of when the current game was started 16:53:37 <dihedral> as in the unix timestamp 16:53:40 <TrueBrain> no 16:53:51 <dihedral> why? 16:54:04 <TrueBrain> calculating that yourself takes as much effort as doing it ingame 16:54:07 <TrueBrain> while we never need it ingame 16:54:25 <Eddi|zuHause3> btw, dihedral, sure with "tornado" they didn't mean the military plane? 16:54:50 <dihedral> could the game send the map seed on the FIND_SERVERS query? 16:55:11 <dihedral> Eddi|zuHause3: they mentioned that it tore of some roof's and uprooted some trees 16:55:16 <dihedral> and that noone was harmed 16:55:24 <dihedral> so i dont think it was the plane :-D 16:55:48 <Smoovious> unless it was flying, really, really, low 16:55:53 <dihedral> TrueBrain: i am looking for some data that is constant during the cause of one game, but different in the next game 16:56:01 <dihedral> i.e. after a newgame command for example 16:56:10 <TrueBrain> there is nothing I guess 16:56:18 <dihedral> the random seed? 16:56:28 <TrueBrain> not gauranteed 16:56:35 <dihedral> but likely? 16:56:37 <Ammler> dihedral: is it also possible to fetch the data from a save? 16:56:39 <Smoovious> PID? 16:56:57 <dihedral> Ammler: i process udp packets 16:57:15 <dihedral> the pid will be the same Smoovious until the game is quit and restarted 16:57:54 <Smoovious> yeah, thought that was basically what you were after 16:58:08 <dihedral> i want data that will change on each new game 16:58:21 <dihedral> i.e game reaches end of game date and a new one starts 16:59:15 <Ammler> (the ingame date?) 16:59:21 <dihedral> great 16:59:23 <dihedral> yeah 16:59:31 <Ammler> :) 16:59:34 <dihedral> as if you start at 1946-01-01 16:59:37 *** Digitalfox [~chatzilla@bl7-181-67.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.3/2007030919]] 16:59:45 <dihedral> every new game will give the same date 17:00:48 <Eddi|zuHause3> but if you query often enough, the new date will be lower than the previous date... 17:01:00 <dihedral> server goes down 17:01:05 <dihedral> dont get any data 17:01:11 <dihedral> server is loaded with a save game 17:01:24 <dihedral> date is later than the one i already have 17:01:34 <dihedral> and i would assume i have the same game 17:02:08 <Eddi|zuHause3> so? 17:02:25 <dihedral> i am hoping to do some mining 17:02:46 <dihedral> store every move in a database 17:03:07 <dihedral> as in when did who join which game :-D 17:03:22 <dihedral> which company, performance of that company 17:03:24 <dihedral> etc. 17:11:21 *** Sacro_ [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 17:12:52 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A5B15.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #openttd [] 17:14:01 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:14:48 <dihedral> if i set the game to never delete save games 17:15:03 <dihedral> are they timestamped? 17:15:05 *** MarkSlap [~hestporr@h22n1fls301o1037.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:15:18 <dihedral> with the game date or the real timestamp 17:15:27 <dihedral> na - forget it 17:15:31 <dihedral> that is a nasty thought 17:17:09 *** Sacro_ is now known as Sacro 17:22:16 <Smoovious> well, maybe if you use the autosaves... .. . 17:24:48 <stillunknown> Did anyone know HandleLocomotiveSmokeCloud() is a bug resource user? 17:25:35 <stillunknown> *big 17:26:06 <peter1138> profiling unoptimized builds, eh? 17:26:27 <stillunknown> No. 17:28:22 <stillunknown> peter1138: But seriously, it seems to represent a lot of the vehicle load. 17:29:21 <stillunknown> 35-40% if i had to guess/ 17:29:32 *** lolman [lolman@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 17:29:45 <Smoovious> but what's a steamer without smoke? 17:29:55 <stillunknown> The game i tested uses maglev. 17:29:59 <eekee> exactly, lol 17:30:00 <peter1138> stationary :D 17:30:04 <eekee> hehe 17:30:04 <Noldo> stillunknown: what does it do? 17:30:18 <stillunknown> Noldo: that function? 17:30:25 <stillunknown> or something else 17:30:28 <Smoovious> oh... well, if you're getting smoke on a maglev, sounds like a maintenance issue... run to depot more often? :P 17:30:34 <Noldo> stillunknown: that function? 17:30:40 <eekee> hehehehe 17:30:43 <stillunknown> stillunknown: what does it do? 17:30:46 <stillunknown> define it 17:30:52 <TrueBrain> so now it is time to play a bit OpenTTD :) 17:30:59 <eekee> fnord! 17:31:18 <stillunknown> Maybe a patch option to disable smoke effects on all but steamers is sensible. 17:31:38 *** helb [~helb@84.244.90.159] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:31:41 <Noldo> plaah 17:31:47 <stillunknown> No, that won't help, since it needs to determine if there are steamers in the first place. 17:31:50 <dihedral> what happened to diagonal road crossings? 17:32:14 *** helb [~helb@84.244.90.159] has joined #openttd 17:32:17 <eekee> stillunknown: OTTD already disables smoke on maglev / monorail, & besides, I'm sure some people like the diesel smoke. I do 17:32:43 <stillunknown> eekee: i think iterating through a train every tick is a bad idea 17:33:17 <eekee> O.o o.O isn't that done anyway? Anyway, don't assume, profile. Assuming makes an ass out of u & me :p 17:33:33 <Smoovious> ... 17:33:34 * Phazorx wonders what is he doign wrong 17:33:45 * eekee puts away his openttd game & reboots to activate a new kernel. won't be back until the nvidia driver works again, lol 17:33:49 *** eekee [~ethan@cpc2-lanc4-0-0-cust540.brig.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:33:59 <Phazorx> i'm trying to launch ottd within gdb 17:34:06 <Phazorx> binary seems to work fine by itself 17:34:15 <Phazorx> but in gdb after targeting it just exits 17:35:12 <stillunknown> tried: make run-gdb 17:35:40 <stillunknown> That should rule some user errors. 17:35:48 <Phazorx> ughm... 17:36:33 <Phazorx> $ make run-gdb 17:36:34 <Phazorx> target exec openttd.exe 17:36:39 <Phazorx> r openttd.exe 17:36:47 <glx> why target? 17:36:57 <Phazorx> Program exited normally 17:37:03 <Phazorx> glx: i tihnk it was in manual ? 17:37:23 <glx> just type "r" 17:37:25 <Eddi|zuHause3> just type "run <arguments>" in gdb 17:37:33 <glx> folowed by args 17:37:39 <glx> like r -g 17:38:55 <Phazorx> that worked till segfault on 1st click 17:39:12 <Eddi|zuHause3> then type bt 17:40:07 <Phazorx> Eddi|zuHause3: i was trying to point out that it wasnt quite the result i expected 17:40:33 *** eekee [~ethan@cpc2-lanc4-0-0-cust540.brig.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 17:40:57 <eekee> yays 17:41:05 <Eddi|zuHause3> Phazorx: then you did something very wrong 17:41:12 <dihedral> well done eekee 17:41:14 <dihedral> wb 17:41:21 <eekee> :d ty hehe ^^ 17:41:27 <Phazorx> Eddi|zuHause3: it didnt like server from config 17:41:55 <Noldo> stillunknown: it should use the CHANCE functions to select which vehicles to puff with 17:42:23 <Phazorx> cant listen :( 17:42:54 <Phazorx> NetworkUDPSocketHandler::Listen(unsigned, unsigned short, bool) (this=0x1e48890, host=0, port=0, broadcast=1) 17:43:13 <eekee> Guys, remember these locos puffed fine on 486s, it's probably the blitter that needs optimising or somehting 17:44:03 <Phazorx> eekee: i dont remember having 1000 trains or 2048^2 maps on 486 17:44:12 <eekee> well... :) 17:44:32 <Phazorx> and i do remember terrible lag on modem play :) 17:45:49 <Eddi|zuHause3> my TT games extremely lagged on my 386 DX 25 after like 10 years 17:46:07 <Phazorx> i never had 386 :( 17:46:41 <Eddi|zuHause3> it took months before i actually got to the first diesel engine 17:47:40 <Eddi|zuHause3> and i never got an electric engine before i played it on a 468 (DX2-60 or so) 17:47:42 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause3: you are an old guy 17:48:13 <Eddi|zuHause3> i was like 10 when TT came out 17:48:20 <Phazorx> Ammler: look who's talking :) 17:48:50 <Eddi|zuHause3> my father bought his brand new 486, and gave me his old 386 17:49:14 <Eddi|zuHause3> at the same time he brought a gaming pack which contained the TT demo 17:49:29 <Phazorx> anyway... i'd like to debug the issue i have but so far i can not get to it 17:49:31 <Phazorx> http://pastie.caboo.se/72896 17:49:33 <Phazorx> any ideas? 17:50:00 *** Luukland [~Luukland@s559031d6.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 17:50:21 <Luukland> Heya All, how can I save my scenario without copying the difficulty settings? 17:51:31 <Luukland> (someone here :P ??) 17:51:49 <Eddi|zuHause3> errr... i would think starting a scenario should overwrite the stored difficulty setting 17:52:16 <Phazorx> cant you modify dficulty and save it as a game ? 17:52:26 <TrueBrain> lol, transfer rules: 10k pax waiting at a station, and I can't get them moved away :) 17:52:52 <Luukland> Phazorx sure 17:52:58 <Eddi|zuHause3> why not? 17:53:02 <stillunknown> Is it possible to have a function in a subclass, and use that function without a empty virtual function in the base class? 17:53:44 <Luukland> but i mean, if someone wants to play my scenario, can he/she choose whith which settings she/he would like to play.... 17:53:54 <Luukland> or is that not possible 17:54:03 <Noldo> stillunknown: not from baseclass pointer 17:54:11 <kaan> stillunknown: i dont know c++ that well but it should be possible i think 17:54:14 <Phazorx> glx can you take a look at it plz http://pastie.caboo.se/72896 17:54:24 <Phazorx> it should be something windows related and basic 17:54:31 <Noldo> well there is dynamic_cast, but that's not very neat way to do anything 17:54:40 <glx> Phazorx: what rev? 17:55:01 <Phazorx> 10170 17:55:27 <Phazorx> i dount it it ottd related 17:55:41 <peter1138> 17.59 3.92 3.92 1000 0.00 0.00 CheckCargoPacketLeaks() 17:55:42 <peter1138> 11.57 6.50 2.58 511323 0.00 0.00 HandleLocomotiveSmokeCloud(Vehicle const*) 17:55:45 <peter1138> 3.99 7.39 0.89 12869237 0.00 0.00 BeginVehicleMove(Vehicle*) 17:55:48 <peter1138> heh 17:55:50 <peter1138> that is pretty excessive 17:56:38 <Phazorx> so steam is expensive on both gamecash and cpu? 17:56:49 <Luukland> does someone here live on the island Jamaica? 17:57:02 <Luukland> :P 17:57:13 <Luukland> i need some info for my scenario :P 17:57:33 <glx> Phazorx: you started a server? 17:57:47 <Phazorx> glx clicked on multiplayer button on 1st screen 17:58:05 <Phazorx> then find server 18:03:06 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:03:07 *** MarkMc [~hestporr@h22n1fls301o1037.telia.com] has joined #openttd 18:03:16 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 18:04:25 <Luukland> If i would like to upload my scenario to the OTTD forum, what should the difficulty settings be? 18:04:31 <glx> Phazorx: it segfaulted for me too :/ 18:05:01 <Smoovious> Luukland... that's up to the one creating the scenario. :P 18:05:12 <Luukland> ok :) 18:05:47 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [] 18:06:01 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 18:06:42 <stillunknown> peter1138: normally it seems hidden in the train controller, but once i started seperating and changing things i noticed it 18:06:56 <peter1138> stillunknown: i just removed the static. 18:06:58 <stillunknown> Wondering what i had done wrong, i noticed the controller was light load now. 18:06:59 <Phazorx> glx: in mingw? 18:07:20 <glx> yes in gdb 18:08:01 <Phazorx> so... no gdb ? 18:08:37 <glx> maybe a bug fixed in newer rev as it doesn't segfault in r10295 18:08:48 <Phazorx> hmm... that suxx 18:08:57 <Eddi|zuHause3> it's funny... usually bugs like that disappear when adding debug stuff :p 18:09:12 <Phazorx> reason why i started doing it - i get random CTDs from coopers box which is on 170 18:09:18 <glx> probably a memory curruption bug 18:10:43 <peter1138> yeah, uh, always debug using the current head revision... 18:10:47 <stillunknown> Phazorx: In case i didn't tell you a while ago, train load scales by number of trains, train length and train speed 18:10:53 <peter1138> it's kinda pointless otherwise 18:11:06 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:11:27 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 18:11:47 <stillunknown> peter1138: An easy reduction can be gained from only doing smoke checks on engines. 18:12:01 <Eddi|zuHause3> well, it might be a bug that is just more hidden, not actually fixed 18:12:32 <Eddi|zuHause3> stillunknown: but powered wagons might also be able to smoke 18:12:33 <Phazorx> stillunknown: length in cars or tiles ? 18:12:42 <stillunknown> cars 18:12:58 <Phazorx> does it matter if they are secondary engines? 18:13:36 <Prof_Frink> Eddi|zuHause3: But not in an enclosed public place after July 1 18:14:26 <Noldo> what is the point of powered wagons and differentiating them from engines? 18:15:12 <Eddi|zuHause3> Noldo: engines may be run by themselves, powered wagons are just regular wagons with an override 18:15:39 <Noldo> ok 18:16:26 <stillunknown> Phazorx: the bulk from the load comes from moving single vehicles 18:16:56 <stillunknown> ofcource many very short trains vs one long train will always have a difference 18:17:39 *** UnderBuilder [~chatzilla@168.226.106.89] has joined #openttd 18:19:43 <stillunknown> Phazorx: that's why 500 normal vs 1000 maglev trains is such a big difference 18:20:54 <peter1138> well 18:20:55 <UnderBuilder> what should we do with the old newgrf system? having those 8bpp graphics with 32bpp will result in a not so nice contrast 18:21:25 <stillunknown> 8bpp will always be primary system 18:21:29 <Eddi|zuHause3> UnderBuilder: why would that need a change? 18:21:42 <UnderBuilder> newgrf is only 8bpp 18:22:02 <Eddi|zuHause3> newgrf will always stay 8bpp 18:22:04 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:22:18 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 18:22:31 <UnderBuilder> the trouble will come when the 32bpp graphics come out 18:23:02 <Luukland> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=600436#600436 << Comments please :) 18:23:07 <Eddi|zuHause3> why would that be a trouble? the primary 32bpp gaphics will resemble the 8bpp graphics as close as possible 18:23:32 <peter1138> oh yeah 18:23:39 <peter1138> you know the method of using 32bpp graphics at the moment? 18:23:44 <peter1138> that works for newgrfs too... 18:24:39 <peter1138> stillunknown: do you think it's possible to have only one 'movement step' for high speed vehicles? currently of course it checks many things for each step... 18:25:25 <stillunknown> peter1138: i've thought about that, but i first need to finish the clean up i'm doing 18:25:34 <stillunknown> before even thinking about that 18:25:42 <stillunknown> thinking = trying 18:26:33 <stillunknown> Something along the lines of doing movement largely on a tile basis (for non-branching track) may be possible. 18:29:24 <stillunknown> peter1138: your thoughts on this http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=600438#600438 would be appreciated 18:29:27 <peter1138> more likely is just skipping some checks 18:30:31 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:31:59 <stillunknown> peter1138: have you looked at that thread? 18:32:30 *** Osai^2 is now known as Osai 18:33:06 <peter1138> looking now 18:33:35 <UnderBuilder> I thought that sergey was banned 18:36:40 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 18:39:58 *** Sacro_ [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 18:42:42 <Luukland> btw. i am still searchin' for 7 people who want to sign in for the OTTD tournament, i already have 25 souls :P 18:45:30 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:57:31 *** |re06011988| [~RE0601198@ADijon-152-1-24-183.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 18:59:38 *** Sacro_ [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:59:52 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 19:02:14 *** Sacro_ [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 19:04:03 *** re06011988 [~RE0601198@ADijon-152-1-24-183.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:07:56 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:09:26 *** Sacro|Laptop [~Ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 19:11:01 *** Sacro_ [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:18:29 <stillunknown> Since when can some engines not haul freight cars? 19:19:59 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 19:21:41 *** Sacro|Laptop [~Ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:22:16 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [] 19:22:40 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 19:24:19 <Smoovious> like, which ones 19:24:49 <Eddi|zuHause3> the ICE3 for example 19:24:55 <stillunknown> AEM7 in the north american renewal set 19:25:12 <Smoovious> is that an Amtrak engine? 19:25:19 *** Osai [~Osai@pD9EB7EFE.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #openttd [] 19:25:26 *** Osai [~Osai@pD9EB7EFE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 19:25:32 <stillunknown> It did autoreplace it, but manually buying or cloning is a no go. 19:25:44 <Eddi|zuHause3> it would be a stupid idea anyway 19:25:52 <Eddi|zuHause3> stillunknown: then that is an autoreplace bug 19:26:15 *** Luukland [~Luukland@s559031d6.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Quit: Ik wacht, en ik wacht, al sinds februari wacht ik. Ik vraag mijn zelf af: hoelang moet ik nog wachten, want er lijkt geen einde aan te komen...] 19:26:51 <stillunknown> Also i can attach one freight car to the engine, but not more. 19:28:17 <Smoovious> not finding it... which climate? and do you have any parameters set? 19:29:23 <stillunknown> No parameters, artic climate. 19:30:57 <Smoovious> I find no AEM7... sure you're talking about the right GRF? 19:30:58 <Eddi|zuHause3> Smoovious: i think brianetta had NARS in his newgrf package... http://ppcis.org/standard 19:31:25 <Eddi|zuHause3> oh, you meant the engine, not the grf 19:31:58 <Smoovious> right 19:32:10 <Smoovious> I got NARS loaded and looking... there is no AEM7 19:32:10 <Eddi|zuHause3> i can't help with that, i never used it 19:32:51 <stillunknown> Sorry, it's USSET 0.86 19:33:19 <Smoovious> uh huh 19:33:42 <stillunknown> Look after 1990. 19:34:19 <TrueBrain> la al lalalalala la lal al al l al al l al al l al al l al a al l a a ala 19:35:49 <Sacro> hmmm 19:35:51 <Sacro> svn might be broken 19:36:08 <TrueBrain> hmm, you now have 'sv' and 'n'? 19:36:12 <Smoovious> yeah, it looks like a bug... you shouldn't be able to put that first freight car on it 19:36:28 <stillunknown> Can newgrf contain text messages? 19:36:43 <Smoovious> the AEM7 is for Amtrack passenger service on electrified rail... 19:36:48 <Smoovious> never designed for freight 19:37:03 <Smoovious> Sacro... broken how? 19:37:36 <Sacro> Smoovious: reporting a strange version number 19:38:08 <Smoovious> whats the #? 19:38:19 <Sacro> ==> newer revision detected: 10296 19:38:19 <Sacro> omanian 19:38:19 <Sacro> ussian 19:38:24 <Sacro> thats not right :\ 19:38:43 <Smoovious> <DorpsGek> Commit by miham :: r10296 /trunk/src/lang (12 files) (2007-06-23 18:35:37 UTC) 19:38:52 <Smoovious> submitted a bunch of language updates 19:39:16 <Sacro> svn log $_svntrunk --limit 1 | sed -n 's/^r\([^ ]*\) .*$//p' 19:39:51 <stillunknown> Can newgrf contain error messages? 19:40:00 <Sacro> think the regex is screwy 19:40:22 <Smoovious> I'm so rusty on regex's... couldn't tell ya without a manual in front o f me 19:40:42 <TrueBrain> we need PBS :p 19:40:57 <Eddi|zuHause3> stillunknown: yes, they can 19:41:02 <Smoovious> almost done... PBS will be up in about an hour 19:41:11 <Sacro> Smoovious: orly? 19:41:15 <Smoovious> no 19:41:19 <Sacro> D: 19:41:21 <Smoovious> :P 19:42:09 <Eddi|zuHause3> i had an idea of implementing PBS by adding virtual (invisible) wagons in front of the engine 19:42:24 <Sacro> ooh thats a clever idea 19:42:31 <TrueBrain> haha, very funny idea indeed :) 19:42:39 <Prof_Frink> What we need is signals between tiles 19:42:55 <eekee> We do, lol :D 19:43:41 <Eddi|zuHause3> then you do not have to store a vehicle id in the tile, you can just look up vehicle by tile (hash?) 19:44:24 <Eddi|zuHause3> so it would suffice to have a reserved bit in the map 19:45:11 <Eddi|zuHause3> and the infrastructure to handle vehicles is already there, only needs very few improvements 19:45:39 *** re06011988 [~RE0601198@ADijon-152-1-24-183.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 19:45:47 *** HMage [hmage@89-178-107-192.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: HMage] 19:46:02 <Phazorx> is 295 not working due to languages? 19:46:17 <TrueBrain> hmm, I am thinking about the idea of Eddi|zuHause3... 19:47:08 *** Caemyr [Caemyr@82-43-152-123.cable.ubr03.nmal.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [] 19:47:33 <TrueBrain> it means you need to remove all signals all together 19:47:54 <stillunknown> And you can never turn after the invisible wagons. 19:47:58 <TrueBrain> and allow trains to ride up till they find an other train 19:47:59 <Eddi|zuHause3> no, signals will still be there... you need some place to stop expanding the vehicle chain 19:48:37 <Eddi|zuHause3> if the virtual vehicle chain gets shorter than the braking distance, you extend it to the next signal 19:48:58 <Smoovious> mount a long stick on the front of the train, seated against t he throttle control so when you get too close to another train you stop... just like in Money Train 19:49:02 <Eddi|zuHause3> along the path that the pathfinder returns from the front virtual vehicle 19:49:06 <eekee> LOL 19:49:51 <Eddi|zuHause3> if you cannot extend the vehicle chain due to blocked path, order the train to stop at the previous signal 19:50:17 <Eddi|zuHause3> which you can do, because it is within stopping distance 19:50:25 <eekee> will this result in more "cannot remove track, train in the way" errors? 19:50:38 <Phazorx> hmm... i could be doing soemthing wrong 19:50:46 <stillunknown> There are situations were your logic will fail Eddi. 19:50:52 <Smoovious> it would also enable a more realistic stopping distance too... variable length according to the power and speed of the train, and the weight/inertia... 19:50:54 <Phazorx> but i just did a svn co -r10295 19:50:57 <Eddi|zuHause3> this has the side effect that the "reserved path" can never change, because the vehicles are already there 19:50:59 <Phazorx> and it comes with no languages 19:51:00 <TrueBrain> eekee: which in fact resolves all problems we had with modifiying the track when it is PBS reserved :) 19:51:11 <eekee> Doh! XD 19:51:14 <Eddi|zuHause3> also, you cannot modify tiles that have a virtual vehicle on it 19:51:22 <eekee> Doh doh doh XD; 19:51:26 *** |re06011988| [~RE0601198@ADijon-152-1-24-183.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:51:38 <Smoovious> 10296 is the language commit, Phazorx 19:51:42 <TrueBrain> which, agian is a very nice idea 19:51:52 <TrueBrain> as it resolves all the problems :) 19:51:52 <eekee> fair enough, but I'll have to change my emergency track surgury habbits, lol 19:51:54 <Phazorx> so latest nighty is not working? 19:52:07 <stillunknown> But please, call it something else than vehicle. 19:52:10 <Smoovious> and if a train is stopped, there would be no reserved track ahead 19:52:26 <stillunknown> Or at least a new type vehicle. 19:52:44 <Smoovious> just call it stopping distance 19:53:23 <Eddi|zuHause3> stillunknown: the whole idea builds on the reuse of existing vehicle code 19:53:28 <TrueBrain> downside of all this is, that for any attempt, you need to understand one of the PFs..... 19:53:30 <eekee> "Cannot remove track, approaching train could not stop in time" How's that? 19:53:49 <Smoovious> "Cannot remove reserved track." 19:53:58 <stillunknown> Assumptions about pathfinders is a bad idea. 19:54:10 <eekee> "reserved" makes me wonder what it's reserved for 19:54:22 <Sacro> h 19:54:22 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:54:27 <Smoovious> that's what a learning curve climb is for 19:54:48 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 19:55:04 <eekee> I need extra tractive effort to tackle learning climbs 19:55:09 <Eddi|zuHause3> TrueBrain: why? if you want to attach a vehicle at the front, and it is on a switch tile, you run the pathfinder, and place the vehicle on the returned trackbit, that should be totally pathfinder agnostic (in the 'stupid' attempt, the pathfinder might later be tweaked to give penalty to reserved tiles) 19:55:14 <Rubidium> 18:51 < dihedral> aparantly it will be bound to fail ( or not relyable acording to Rubidium) <- when you have server side caching it'll generally work ok 19:55:15 <Smoovious> if signals that have a branch after it, were set to default-red until an approaching train gets near it and it clears a route for it... .. . 19:56:09 <Eddi|zuHause3> pathfinder will always be run from the front vehicle, it will just not be the engine anymore 19:56:13 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause3: even so I don't like that attempt in detail, you still have the part: "and place the vehicle on the returned trackbit", which means knowning the PF :p 19:56:19 *** scia [~scia@85.149.96.102] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 19:57:08 <Eddi|zuHause3> TrueBrain: why? that is exactly what the moving code currently does, it removes the vehicle from the old place, and places it on the return value of the pathfinde 19:57:35 <Eddi|zuHause3> just that now you would not remove the old vehicle anymore, just add a new one 19:58:17 <TrueBrain> you only forget that it won't be helping for any PBS alike thing, as the signals will be red 19:58:28 *** Caemyr [Caemyr@82-43-152-123.cable.ubr03.nmal.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 19:58:40 <Smoovious> like... say a signal only has one route to the next signal, it operates as ABS, and defaults to a proceed state... and if it has more than one route to the next signal (meaning 2 signals), then it defaults to a stop state... when a train approaches it, and no other train is cleared to that track, then the signal changes to proceed 19:58:49 <Eddi|zuHause3> that is the next step, signals will always be red, unless there is a virtual vehicle on it 19:59:03 *** Caemyr is now known as Guest165 19:59:19 <Eddi|zuHause3> when there is a virtual vehicle on the signal tile, it means the train successfully reserved a path through it 19:59:41 <Smoovious> well, assuming you want that kind of signalling to automatically become the appropriate one 20:00:02 <Eddi|zuHause3> yes, all signals should be PBS... 20:00:22 <stillunknown> Won't that put a considerable load on the vehicle hashmap? 20:00:43 <stillunknown> A few junctions ok, but everywere, that can't be cheap. 20:01:38 <stillunknown> Also realize that the vehicle map does not have the resolution needed for this task. 20:01:42 <Smoovious> well, ya gotta choose... dumb signals that don't think much, like we got now... or smart signals... 20:01:57 <Smoovious> oh bah 20:01:58 <dihedral> Rubidium: thanks that is good to know 20:02:15 <Smoovious> leave them alone... if they wanna try it let em try it... 20:02:19 <Eddi|zuHause3> well, you can make those virtual vehicles as long as the tile... would reduce the amount of vehicles 20:02:38 <stillunknown> What kind of resolution would you have for the vehicle map? 20:02:51 * Hendikins would be quite content with dumb signals unless otherwise specified. 20:02:57 <UnderBuilder> loading indicators are in trunk? from when? 20:03:08 <stillunknown> A day, maybe two. 20:03:08 <Smoovious> yeah, you don't need to have smart signals everywhere 20:03:39 <stillunknown> Still, the vehiclemap currently has a resolution of 128x128. 20:03:39 <Eddi|zuHause3> UnderBuilder: 'svn log | grep -i -C2 indicator'? 20:03:50 <Smoovious> most signals just behave as ABS signals anyways 20:04:11 <Hendikins> I'd have very limited use for "smart" signals. I'm used to working the dumb ones pretty well. 20:04:24 <Eddi|zuHause3> stillunknown: you will not need to look up the vehicle often 20:04:28 <Smoovious> you'll adjust. :P 20:04:44 <Eddi|zuHause3> you have the reserved bit for the tile for an easy check 20:04:45 <Smoovious> I was used to doing without pre-signals... I got over it. :D 20:06:25 <Hendikins> I'd probably only find "smart" signals particularly useful early in the game before I could afford to grade separate all my junctions. 20:07:02 <Sacro> Smoovious: it took me aaaaaaaages to get used to 2 way signals 20:07:06 <stillunknown> Eddi: Every time you want to enter such a junction you must check all tiles in your path. 20:07:06 <stillunknown> At a low resolution that's going to be ugly. 20:07:06 <Wolf01> 'night 20:07:06 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host178-62-dynamic.56-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 20:07:06 <Sacro> er,, 20:07:08 <Sacro> 1 way even 20:07:27 <Smoovious> well, that's up to you 20:07:46 <Eddi|zuHause3> another optimisation: the virtual vehicles do not actually have to move, when the engine moves, just shorten the vehicle in front of the engine, if the engine leaves the tile, the vehicle will have length 0, get deleted, and the engine attached to the next vehicle 20:08:08 <Smoovious> there's some tight spaces to get into tho... especially if there are other companies at the same place 20:08:28 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:08:30 <Eddi|zuHause3> if such a vehicle gets deleted, check the breaking distance (length of the vehicle chain can be cached value) 20:08:47 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 20:09:05 <Eddi|zuHause3> braking distance should be an easy function of cached weight and current speed 20:09:30 <Smoovious> maybe up/downhill too 20:09:43 *** UnderBuilder [~chatzilla@168.226.106.89] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.4/2007051502]] 20:09:48 <Smoovious> # of engines will help add to braking effort too 20:10:06 <Sacro> and what kind of engine 20:10:10 <Eddi|zuHause3> usually all wagons have brakes... 20:10:33 <Sacro> and the UKRS brake van! 20:10:55 <Eddi|zuHause3> but that is a decision that can be made much later... 20:11:00 <Smoovious> yeah, but multiple engines increase how fast you can trip the brakes... plus active braking from the traction wheels 20:11:35 <Eddi|zuHause3> tripping brakes should always be instant... 20:11:49 <Smoovious> 1 engine would take 3 times as long to brake, as 3 engines would 20:11:53 <Smoovious> no way 20:11:56 <Sacro> Smoovious: not true 20:12:04 <Smoovious> it takes time to bleed out the air 20:12:19 <Smoovious> well, depending on the brakes 20:12:21 <Sacro> it depends on the weight of the engine 20:12:23 <Sacro> and its braking power 20:12:35 <Smoovious> for automatic braking with the traction wheels, yes 20:12:45 <Eddi|zuHause3> Smoovious: in germany, brakes are usually pneumatic, the brakes are under pressure initially, and if someone hits the emergency brake, pressure is removed and the brakes hit 20:13:03 <Sacro> thats how a westinghouse brake works 20:13:39 <Smoovious> yeah, that's how the vast majority of the brakes on US rolling stock is now too... but some still use the pressurized brakes to apply 20:14:17 <Eddi|zuHause3> i'd consider that pretty unsafe... 20:14:20 <Smoovious> (and yes, I'm aware I was getting that part backwards initially)... I was talking more about dynamic braking 20:15:18 <Eddi|zuHause3> i'm gone watching something... have a nice discussion :) 20:15:40 <Smoovious> anyways, the longer a train is, the longer it takes for the pressure to drop through the line for all of t he brakes to engage 20:16:09 *** HMage [hmage@89-178-103-240.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 20:17:07 <peter1138> what's all this crap about virtual wagons? 20:18:04 <Smoovious> it is for shipping programs 20:19:18 <stillunknown> peter1138: did you have a look? 20:19:29 <stillunknown> at the patch 20:19:44 *** NW|Aerandir [magic.powe@90-230-201-111-no37.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: - nbs-irc 2.3 - www.nbs-irc.net -] 20:20:19 <peter1138> ages ago, yes 20:20:48 <stillunknown> Odd definition of ages. 20:25:27 <Prof_Frink> stillunknown: You overestimate his attention spa-ooh a squirrel! 20:26:26 <kaan> I had a look at it, but i gave up cause im too tired 20:26:45 <kaan> I like the idea though 20:29:54 <kaan> general question: how much space on your HD is used by pr0n? 20:30:08 <peter1138> 0 20:30:27 <Sacro> kaan: about 12GB i think 20:30:29 <Smoovious> 80% 20:30:35 <kaan> huh? well people really are gone for the night 20:30:47 <kaan> oh, there you are ;) 20:31:06 <kaan> hmmm, i better find out myself now that i brought it up 20:31:08 <Smoovious> well, 70% now 20:31:41 <eekee> lol 20:31:48 <kaan> hmm, 28GB 20:31:59 <eekee> I feel clean, lol 20:31:59 <kaan> good thing i got that extra HD 20:32:15 <peter1138> why do you have so much? 20:32:23 <peter1138> what do you do with it? rewatch it? 20:32:29 <Smoovious> small hd's? 20:32:32 <kaan> i forget to delete it when i stop laughing 20:32:56 <eekee> $ du -s .private/ 20:32:56 <eekee> 100M .private/ 20:32:56 <eekee> And I thought I was so dirty... 20:32:58 <kaan> oh there is a few that i keep for good 20:33:00 <Smoovious> I downloaded more than I've looked at... most I have no clue what it is 20:33:10 <Smoovious> gradually getting it cleared out 20:35:26 <peter1138> Waiting: 9,225 passengers :o 20:35:29 <kaan> it all went bad when i found the pirate bay 20:37:10 <TrueBrain> why does playing OpenTTD at a certain time becomes boring? 20:37:11 <kaan> eekee: why the hidden folder? mine is \My Documents\Pr0n\ 20:37:35 <eekee> eh, friends... 20:37:40 <peter1138> TrueBrain: cos i never finished my pbs implementation! 20:37:45 <eekee> hehe 20:37:48 <TrueBrain> you have one too? 20:37:49 <kaan> TrueBrain: thats is a very broad question, splease narrow it down a bit 20:38:07 <peter1138> TrueBrain: only very vaguely, heh 20:38:15 <kaan> eekee: oh, I see ... 20:38:19 <peter1138> i think i got as far as track reservation ;p 20:38:20 <TrueBrain> I have seen 3 ideas in the last 24 hours :p 20:38:26 <peter1138> but really there isn't much to it 20:38:42 <TrueBrain> nope 20:38:51 <peter1138> although virtual wagons sounds like a stupid idea 20:39:02 <TrueBrain> for a static PBS, yes, but not for other types of PBS 20:40:40 <kaan> just out of curiosity: what is the two biggest issues concerning PBS? 20:40:48 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:40:49 <peter1138> someone writing it 20:40:57 <Smoovious> well 20:41:01 <TrueBrain> staying correct after track modification 20:41:23 <kaan> hmm, ok 20:41:26 <peter1138> if (reserved) donotallowmodification 20:41:36 *** CIA-1 [~CIA@208.69.182.149] has joined #openttd 20:42:14 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 20:42:16 <kaan> peter1138: or let the train crash when it runs out of expected track, then they will learn 20:42:26 <kaan> :P 20:43:06 <glx> and don't mess the system when a train decides to reverse 20:43:17 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [] 20:43:37 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 20:43:44 <peter1138> i still think tekky's stuff has potential 20:43:52 <kaan> very much so 20:43:54 <peter1138> even if it'll confuse some people, heh 20:44:18 <kaan> but there should probably be a "light" version for the peeps 20:44:30 <Smoovious> naw 20:44:53 <Smoovious> keeps the riff-raff out of the advanced games. ;) 20:46:41 <kaan> well i havent looked too hard at that part of the code, but wouldnt it help if the signal code was seperated from the rest? 20:48:09 <Sacro> yes, i plan on ripping the signal code out 20:49:01 <kaan> ok, sounds nice, hvae you planned when? 20:49:07 <kaan> have* 20:50:22 <dihedral> g'night ladies 20:50:36 <kaan> night dihedral 20:50:38 <dihedral> i need my bed 20:50:51 *** dihedral [~dihedral@dslb-084-057-242-187.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.4/2007051502]] 20:57:15 *** Sacro_ [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 21:00:18 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:05:08 *** elmex [~elmex@e180064164.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:09:16 *** Sacro_ [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:10:18 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 21:10:18 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [] 21:11:11 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 21:11:31 *** eJoJ [~opera@89.10.21.163] has joined #openttd 21:12:22 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10298 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 2 dirs): 21:12:22 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#903]: show the subdirectory below the default data directory in this 21:12:22 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: filename in the newgrf list. The directory was removed in r9560 because then it 21:12:22 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: used to full path instead of the path relative to the data directory, but since 21:12:22 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: the inclusion of "search paths" that is not necessary anymore. 21:13:29 <Hendikins> Heh, go CityRail, do the media release about a proposed fare increase on a Saturday when nobody is looking... 21:14:31 <Smoovious> :D 21:17:01 <Smoovious> um... Rubidium... what does "This will duplicate removal will not be removed." mean? and... if I have 2 identical NewGRF's in different places, I'd really like to see em so I can do something about it 21:18:59 <Rubidium> remove the first will and the sentence will make sense 21:19:31 <Smoovious> ok... but would still want to see the duplicates... 21:19:57 <Smoovious> otherwise I'd need another program to compare the ID's and MD5's to figure out which one(s) I can safely delete 21:21:20 <Smoovious> it was very handy for that 21:21:22 <Rubidium> that will become very ugly and unmaintainable 21:21:54 <Smoovious> with 4 installations of openttd, I'm constantly copying and moving GRF's back and forth, until it is so messy it is unmanageable 21:22:11 <Rubidium> that's what "search paths" solves 21:22:17 <Smoovious> being ugly is the point of seeing them... I can see the ugly, and fix it 21:22:19 <Rubidium> you only need 1 place for all your grfs 21:22:23 <Smoovious> it doesn't solve i t tho 21:22:30 <peter1138> just put all your extra grfs (including trg*) in ~/.openttd/data :) 21:22:38 <Smoovious> except lots of GRF's have the same name 21:22:48 *** Ammller [~Ammler@adsl-84-227-172-192.adslplus.ch] has joined #openttd 21:23:02 <peter1138> or subdirs of data 21:23:06 <peter1138> what's the problem? 21:23:11 <Smoovious> I moved them out of ../data intentionalaly to keep them seperate from the grf's that have to stay with the game 21:23:16 <Rubidium> Smoovious: the "problem" is that when you put a list of files in openttf.cfg, that files will also be duplicate in the list (AFAIK) 21:23:42 <Smoovious> oh, the old NewGRF display behavior changed so I can't use it to 21:23:44 <Smoovious> YES! 21:24:16 <Smoovious> that's what I want... I want them to be duplicate, so I can see the duplicates, and where thhe duplicates are, so I know which one I can delete without losing one 21:24:41 <Smoovious> I got 5 av8w grf's right now... 21:24:47 <Smoovious> all different versions 21:25:02 <Rubidium> Smoovious: what I meant is: all files you put in the [newgrf] section of openttd.cfg would turn up as duplicates in the list 21:25:04 <Smoovious> I did have some duplicates I removed before 21:25:13 <Smoovious> yes, I know 21:25:13 *** Ammler is now known as Guest170 21:25:13 *** Ammller is now known as ammler 21:25:20 <Smoovious> and what I meant is... I WANT IT TO DO THAT 21:25:25 * Smoovious sighs. 21:25:39 <Rubidium> WHY do you want files that are only ONCE on your disk to show up TWICE? 21:25:56 <Smoovious> ifi it finds a NewGRF, even if it is a duplicate, display it in the list, so I can see that it is a duplicate instead of a different version 21:26:17 <peter1138> Smoovious: you are barking up the wrong tree 21:26:19 <Smoovious> I don't want files that are on my disk once, to show up twice... I want files that are on my disk twice, to show up twice 21:26:22 <Rubidium> Smoovious: you really don't get me 21:26:35 <Rubidium> really listen to what I say! 21:26:43 <Smoovious> ok, go ahead... try again 21:26:46 *** Guest170 [~Ammler@adsl-62-167-42-124.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:26:51 <glx> Smoovious: put all newgrf in one place :) 21:26:55 <Smoovious> no 21:27:12 <peter1138> heh 21:27:16 <Rubidium> IF a newgrf is listed in the [newgrf] or [newgrf-static] section of openttd.cfg it WILL show those files you listed in openttd.cfg as DUPLICATES when they are not duplicates 21:27:18 <glx> no need to have them in all openttd dis 21:27:40 <Smoovious> will it show them as duplicates, if they are duplicates? 21:28:25 <Rubidium> yes BUT ALSO WHEN THEY ARE NOT DUPLICATES!!! 21:28:40 * peter1138 has 4 pb_viaduct.grfs listed 21:28:43 <peter1138> 2 are the same 21:28:46 <peter1138> so what's the problem? 21:28:48 <Rubidium> showing a file twice when it exists only once on the list is not GOOD 21:28:51 <peter1138> btw 21:29:02 <Smoovious> ok... well, that is a problem I never had 21:29:42 <Rubidium> well, you could've when you were using Windows 21:29:56 <Smoovious> just so long as if I can see I have the same GRF in .\newgrfs\av8w.grf and .\standard\av8w.grf , then I'm good 21:30:03 <Smoovious> I'm using windows 21:30:15 <peter1138> you're talking about the wrong lit 21:30:17 <peter1138> *list 21:30:37 <Smoovious> I just never manually edit the cfg file... I have openttd do the rescan itself 21:30:38 <peter1138> NewGRF settings versus Available NewGRF files 21:30:48 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:30:54 <Smoovious> right... available NewGRF files is what my bug report was about 21:31:03 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 21:31:23 <Rubidium> Smoovious: and when current working directory == directory of binary it will show all files in that directory as duplicate when they are not 21:31:55 <Smoovious> why would the binary be in the data dir? 21:32:13 * Smoovious shrugs. 21:32:58 <Smoovious> well, will take a look when I get back up to the current revision... 21:33:10 <Smoovious> still getting my other 2 patches current again 21:33:16 <Rubidium> Smoovious: you really must READ what I say 21:33:24 <Smoovious> I did read it 21:33:35 <Rubidium> if "working directory" == "directory where the binary is in" 21:33:55 <Rubidium> this has nothing to do with the binary being in the data directory 21:33:58 <Smoovious> sorry, but just cuz it was clear to you, who made the change, doesn't mean it was clear to me... 21:34:18 <Rubidium> because the data directory would be "working directory"/data/ and "directory where the binary is in"/data/ 21:34:25 <Smoovious> so it doesn't search subdirs of the data directory, but subdirectories of openttd's home dir? 21:34:53 <Smoovious> er 21:34:55 <Rubidium> no, it searches subdirs of the data directory 21:35:16 <Smoovious> then... but not the home dir? 21:35:23 <Rubidium> but if the directory where the data directory is in shows up twice in the found "search paths" it will scan that data directory 21:35:30 <glx> it searches in "working dir"/data, "openttd.exe dir"/data, mydocs/openttd/data, ... 21:36:08 <Smoovious> ok... so it doesn't know when working-dir and home-dir are the same then 21:38:16 <Rubidium> it's even very hard to determine that they are actually the same in all cases 21:38:45 <Smoovious> that's kinda hard to believe 21:38:52 <Rubidium> like when I symlink .openttd to openttd and start from openttd. It will not know that .openttd and openttd are actually the same 21:39:43 <glx> hmm for windows you can just strcmp the paths :) 21:39:58 <glx> but I agree it can be harder for other platforms 21:40:01 <Smoovious> ok... that makes sense... but expanding the placeholders and comparing the resulting paths would be a fairly simple check 21:41:44 <Smoovious> anyways, so long as I still see genuine duplicates, I'm good... 21:41:52 <Rubidium> glx: you can't 21:42:14 <Rubidium> well, not the stuff from openttd.cfg and what it finds itself 21:43:18 <Rubidium> and, Windows has symlinks or something looking like symlinks too 21:43:57 <Smoovious> btw... just to needle a bit... I did read... and what I read, was "... so if you have the exact same grf in multiple directories, it will not show."... which was why I was arguing so hard. :P 21:47:53 *** HMage [hmage@89-178-103-240.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: HMage] 21:52:35 *** |re06011988| [~RE0601198@ADijon-152-1-24-183.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 21:59:35 *** re06011988 [~RE0601198@ADijon-152-1-24-183.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:06:41 *** lolman_ [lolman@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 22:11:20 <stillunknown> Rubidium: the show all cargo bug is back 22:12:08 <Rubidium> stillunknown: back as in? I loaded a savegame that already had that issue? 22:12:19 <stillunknown> The issue is not selfcorrecting? 22:12:30 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:12:53 <stillunknown> In that case, it must be the first time i noticed it again. 22:12:56 *** alanin is now known as Alanin 22:13:24 *** lolman [lolman@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:13:56 *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 22:14:36 <Rubidium> stillunknown: well, I think it is, but after something like 2 games years I think 22:19:35 *** Sacro_ [Ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 22:25:52 *** Alanin is now known as alanin 22:27:08 *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:31:03 <Eddi|zuHause3> hm... after almost one year you decide to close a feature request just like that? ... 22:31:07 *** HMage [~HMage@89-178-2-20.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 22:32:21 *** Osai is now known as Osai^zZz 22:41:42 *** Osai^zZz [~Osai@pD9EB7EFE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Osai^zZz] 22:44:43 *** XeryusTC [~irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:46:06 *** Nigel_ [~nigel@202.154.148.243] has joined #openttd 22:46:07 *** Purno [~Purno@5357D37C.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 22:47:54 *** Nigel [~nigel@202.154.148.243] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:50:12 <Smoovious> cleaning out the fridge... 22:51:10 <TrueBrain> yeah, needed from time to time 22:52:27 *** lolman [lolman@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 22:52:41 <TrueBrain> and now: goodnight! 22:52:42 *** lolman_ [lolman@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:53:30 *** benc_ [~benc_@va-71-53-204-176.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #openttd 22:55:37 *** HMage` [hmage@89-178-151-125.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 22:55:45 <Smoovious> o/ 22:56:11 *** HMage [~HMage@89-178-2-20.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:04:17 *** Thomas[NL] [~thomas@vdburgt.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:07:41 *** KritiK [Maxim@ppp85-141-226-206.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:20:24 *** re06011988 [~RE0601198@ADijon-152-1-24-183.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 23:22:02 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-166-77.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 23:23:51 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:27:41 *** |re06011988| [~RE0601198@ADijon-152-1-24-183.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:28:38 *** Purno [~Purno@5357D37C.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Quit: Life is a game of pick-up-sticks, played by fucking lunatics.] 23:31:02 *** setrodox [setrodox@83-65-232-84.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Quit: Hapiness ;D] 23:37:32 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1D871.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:56:41 *** HMage` [hmage@89-178-151-125.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:59:12 <Ailure> hm 23:59:34 <Ailure> timetable system would be easier if there was a average travelling next to each travel D: