Log for #openttd on 1st September 2007:
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00:10:36  <Smoovious> midi and ogg just aren't comparable as music file types
00:11:06  <Smoovious> midis are just an instruction set for how to play  the music... ogg is a recording
00:11:27  <svip> Yes.
00:11:32  <svip> But no one uses midis any more.
00:11:42  <Smoovious> yes they do
00:11:51  <svip> I mean on a serious level.
00:11:56  <Smoovious> so do I
00:12:54  <Sacro> midis ftw
00:13:26  <Smoovious> midis didn't even originate wiith computers, but with electric keyboards
00:14:05  <Smoovious> and personally, I won't buy a sound card without excellent, programmable, midi support
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00:42:43  <MrBrrr> Aye Aye!
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00:52:01  <svip> :|
00:52:02  <svip> Hm.
00:52:11  <svip> In order to check for which tool is selected.
00:52:23  <svip> I need to make some sort check function.
00:52:34  <svip> But also make it public the functions that _place_proc refers to.
00:52:38  <svip> So I can compare them.
00:52:48  <svip> Unless of course there is another way to check what something points at.
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01:16:12  <Belugas> [19:34] <svip> You can't?  Or you _can't_? <--- the music is not our property, but still Atari (or whoever has the rights).  So if we convert them to something else, it means we are manipulating original and copyright material.
01:16:27  <Belugas> therefor, cannot touch nor convert the music
01:16:44  <Sacro> not even whistle it on the bus?
01:17:19  <Belugas> but we would welcome all the artists who could donate any piece of good and in-the-style type of musice :)
01:17:37  <Belugas> and yes, why not, recording of Sacro's whistling :)
01:18:04  <Sacro> hehe
01:18:11  <Sacro> i have the tt music on my phone
01:18:20  <Sacro> i have Broomers Rag when i recieve a call
01:18:27  <Sacro> and the TTDX theme for my alarm
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01:21:23  <Belugas> not as hooked :D
01:22:25  <Belugas> alhough my cell phone rings with the sound of a steam engine entering a station, with whistle and steeam release :)
01:22:40  <Belugas> plus the tracks clickering
01:27:51  <_Ben_> If people play back the music on instruments, but the sheet music is made from the midi, would that still be copyright to atari? (or whoever..)
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01:32:04  <Sacro> _Ben_: yes
01:33:12  <_Ben_> hmm, how to artists usually get away with doing covers?
01:33:17  <Sacro> err
01:33:19  <Sacro> Fair use
01:33:25  <Sacro> or they pay royalties
01:34:49  <Belugas> or they make enough modifications that it is almost a different song, such as the lawyers could not prove it is the same.
01:35:04  <Belugas> difference between inspired and copied, i guess :)
01:36:17  <_Ben_> hmm, if you are playing it on an instrument then it can only be inspired, as the original method was manually entered
01:36:45  <_Ben_> what about just switching the key to a perfect 4th of the original.  Almost the same, but not a single note in common!
01:37:07  <Belugas> progressin is still the same
01:37:22  <Belugas> transposition is not a new song
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01:37:45  <Belugas> what about getting a keyboard ang get inspired :D
01:37:57  <_Ben_> I have a keyboard
01:38:13  <Belugas> my stuff is only on guitar, and i can't finish a damn song i've composed
01:38:36  <Belugas> you do?  nice :)
01:38:58  <Belugas> in that case, we may start to replace the files :D
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01:39:06  <_Ben_> I can play the TT theme song, although I don't have a convincin claranet midi, although my sister plays claranet but I dought I could convince her to play TT music!
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01:45:28  <_Ben_> If an artist rights sheet music, its not illegal to sell a recording of that being played is it?  Or is that different as you buy that right when paying for the sheet music?
01:45:36  <_Ben_> writes*
01:46:05  <Belugas> i do not know...  it may depends on what you wnat to do, i guess
01:46:21  <Belugas> as for the sound of claranet, weel... to bad :)
01:46:34  <Belugas> maybe we need some new music style ;)
01:48:06  <_Ben_> suggestions?
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01:51:39  <Belugas> it has to be hem...
01:51:44  <Belugas> entertaining,
01:52:01  <Belugas> with good rythm,
01:52:06  <Belugas> something joyfull
01:52:16  <_Ben_> christmas carols...
01:52:19  <Belugas> lol
01:56:26  <_Ben_> hmm well structured jazz is kinda that, although that is the original style is it not?
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02:43:38  <Eddi|zuHause2> <_Ben_> hmm, how to artists usually get away with doing covers? <- here is an institution [in germany that's called GEMA] that gathers money from all performing artists and gives it to the writers of the music. there is a similar institution for playing back recordings, which pays to the artists that recorded it
02:44:30  <_Ben_> Do you know how long music holds copyright?
02:44:58  <Eddi|zuHause2> like anything else, death of the author + 70 years [in europe]
02:45:43  <_Ben_> hmm tricky to get around that one
02:46:09  <Eddi|zuHause2> means you are free to play mozart or beethoven ;)
02:46:32  <Sacro> so we need to kill CS
02:46:35  <Sacro> and then wait 70 years
02:46:40  <_Ben_> somehow I don't think TT players would see that as a suitable equivilent
02:46:53  <Eddi|zuHause2> chances are, CS had absolutely nothing to do with the music :p
02:47:16  <Sacro> Simon Broomhall then
02:47:47  <_Ben_> well we could do some scott joplin, as locomotion has
02:51:54  <_Ben_> If the original TT music is recorded from real instruments and distributed, I asume that wouldn't be a crime if it released under a leicence that inshores it remains free, as it's the profiting that would be the crime right?
02:54:21  <Eddi|zuHause2> i don't think that is going to work...
02:56:17  <Eddi|zuHause2> the laws (at least in germany) are a little more liberal with music than with software, i.e. you are allowed to make private copys of music and give them to family and close friends (as long as it does not involve circumventing copy protection)... but afaik that does not include non-profit public distribution
02:57:37  <_Ben_> dam the law. Always getting in my way
02:57:54  <MrBrrr> lol
02:57:55  <Eddi|zuHause2> (note that it also does not include "friends" you "meet" over "filesharing programs" :p)
02:59:44  <_Ben_> Although the music is devirved from a copyrighted origin if you were to transfer midi to sheet and then play it on instruments, the actually music you have has required a person/people to add a great deal of there own work to it in order to get the music to the finished state, so I think that is quite unfair that it remains copyrighed to the author of the midi
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03:00:53  <Eddi|zuHause2> it's not necessarily the author of the midi, it's the composer of the music, which might or might not be the same person
03:01:26  <_Ben_> In TT I asume it is the same person?
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03:02:23  <Eddi|zuHause2> i have no idea... but creating a midi from sheet music is usually not a "creative work" in the sense of copyright law...
03:03:09  <_Ben_> yeah, I was refering to the reading and playing of an instrument that is creative
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03:38:32  <Smoovious> making a midi from sheet music is an awful way to make a midi file anyways
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04:23:34  <Red>  heading your way.
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04:35:00  <Red> !changes
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07:45:52  <phiker> hi, is it currently planned to have easier upgrade methods for trains instead of having to replace them all one by one?
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07:49:28  <Wolf01> hello
08:04:33  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11030 /trunk/src/ (economy.cpp openttd.cpp saveload.cpp station_cmd.cpp): -Revert r11016, Fix [FS#1178]: the way to determine whether a station should get goods was not done properly.
08:04:38  <Rubidium> phiker: there's something called autoreplace that does that
08:08:04  <phiker> Rubidium: how can I use that?
08:08:48  <Rubidium> see the wiki
08:09:02  <Rubidium> something like (I think)
08:09:39  <Rubidium> actually, works better
08:10:07  <phiker> uhm well, I meant upgrading like monorail -> maglev
08:10:35  <Rubidium> then no, I think
08:10:44  <phiker> not even planned?
08:11:22  <Rubidium> we'd first need multitile (read multirailtype) depots for that
08:12:10  <phiker> why not simply let users define what engines should be replaced with other ones in the replace vehicles dialogue, and then replace them when the upgrade tool is applied to a rail depot?
08:12:53  <Rubidium> because one shouldn't have maglev trains in a monorail depot and vice versa
08:13:19  <phiker> when you upgrade it, it becomes a maglev depot
08:13:24  <phiker> and therefore can have maglev trains in it
08:13:34  <Rubidium> yes, but first you have monorail trains in it
08:13:44  <phiker> which were upgraded from monorail trains according to the rules defined in some dialogue
08:13:59  <Rubidium> not if you didn't specify it
08:14:05  <phiker> I want to specify it.
08:14:14  <phiker> Otherwise an error box could be shown.
08:14:15  <Rubidium> yes, but sometimes people don't
08:14:31  <phiker> then it wonÂŽt work, but thatÂŽs not too big a problem
08:14:52  <phiker> ItÂŽs a hundred times easier to specify this and then upgrade your complete railnet instead of replacing 40 trains one by one.
08:14:59  <Rubidium> either do it correctly or don't do it at all
08:15:27  <phiker> well, whatÂŽs wrong with letting the user define what should happen?
08:16:01  <Rubidium> it brings the game in an inconsistent state and people start complaining that it "doesn't" work
08:16:11  <phiker> inconsistent? in what way?
08:16:30  <Rubidium> monorail vehicles on maglev track for example
08:16:55  <phiker> and... how should that happen with this approach?
08:17:10  <Rubidium> depots have track to
08:17:26  <phiker> indeed
08:17:30  <Rubidium> and track types are only checked when they change
08:17:30  <phiker> and... whereÂŽs the problem?
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08:17:43  <Rubidium> so once a monorail train is on maglev track it will happily run
08:17:57  <phiker> and how should it get there?
08:17:59  <Rubidium> and then people start complaining that monorail runs on maglev and vice versa
08:18:59  <phiker> (perhaps IÂŽm just too stupid, but IÂŽm really trying to understand what youÂŽre saying :-)
08:19:41  <Rubidium> because you have maglev trains in a monorail depot (or vice versa) because you didn't set an autoreplace for all vehicles, trains will run on the wrong track type
08:20:04  <phiker> no
08:20:15  <phiker> if I donÂŽt set an autoreplace, nothing gets done and an error box is shown
08:20:56  <phiker> "You canÂŽt upgrade this depot because you didnÂŽt specify a replacement for train 36." or something like that
08:21:56  <Rubidium> oh... and what when you can't have coal wagons on maglev? (Like with most newgrfs)
08:22:29  <Rubidium> it would require a hell of a lot of code to get it right
08:22:36  <phiker> you canÂŽt have coal wagons on maglev? sorry, I didnÂŽt know that
08:22:50  <phiker> well then, probably the user shouldnÂŽt be upgrading his network if he wants to continue delivering coal...
08:22:54  <Rubidium> as I said: with some newgrfs
08:23:14  <phiker> so he wonÂŽt use this feature and wonÂŽt have problems
08:24:26  <Rubidium> people are stupid and click on everything
08:24:52  <phiker> thatÂŽs true I guess
08:25:23  <phiker> youÂŽre right, showing an error box then is much work
08:25:26  <SmatZ> phiker: you can code a client-side patch to do that work for you
08:25:58  <phiker> SmatZ: of course I could. IÂŽm just wondering why this isnÂŽt included by default. Now I know :-)
08:26:19  <phiker> Though I still think it would be worth it...
08:26:51  <Rubidium> phiker: problem is that there are a gazillion other things that are "worth" it to be included
08:27:11  <phiker> so thereÂŽs simply no time for working on that particular "feature"?
08:27:17  <SmatZ> yes, similiarly I would like an ability to upgrade railtype when a train goes over it...
08:27:21  <Rubidium> and the autoreplace dev has not that much time
08:27:57  <phiker> SmatZ: and why donÂŽt you use the normal replace tool?
08:28:02  <phiker> itÂŽs not too much work, is it?
08:28:46  <phiker> ok then, IÂŽll try making a patch. ItÂŽll sure be crappy. But itÂŽs enough if it works for me.
08:29:34  <SmatZ> phiker: because it cannot be done
08:29:44  <SmatZ> when a train is on the tile, you cannot convert it
08:30:11  <SmatZ> funny
08:30:28  <SmatZ> you can convert depots, when a train is on the tile, but not regular railway
08:30:35  <phiker> wouldnÂŽt it be a bit unrealistic if you could upgrade a train while itÂŽs driving?
08:31:33  <SmatZ> now I was talking about railway->el.railway conversion
08:31:48  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11031 /trunk/src/ (7 files): -Codechange: reduce the amount of duplication of bit counting functions. Based on patches by skidd13, SmatZ and Belugas.
08:31:49  <phiker> aah
08:32:04  <SmatZ> similiarly, there could be trains that run both on monorail and maglev...
08:32:29  <phiker> although I canÂŽt calculate this, it doesnÂŽt sound like itÂŽs much work?
08:32:30  <SmatZ> I think OTTD can be unrealistic :)
08:32:50  <phiker> but what I thought you meant was _very_ unrealistic ;)
08:32:56  <SmatZ> :-)
08:35:29  <Noldo> Rubidium is on a bug closing spree
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08:36:16  <phiker> isnÂŽt it sufficient to check whether the railway is ugpraded normal->electric and allow it then?
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08:37:13  <SmatZ> Rubidium: is it intended, that a Railway depot can be upgraded to El.Rail, even when there is a train not stopped in the depot?
08:37:33  <SmatZ> phiker: yes... probably there was some decision form devs not to allow that
08:37:44  <SmatZ> I don't know
08:37:57  <phiker> SmatZ: perhaps. although I donÂŽt know why they should disallow that
08:38:01  <Rubidium> el rail came *after* the convert tool
08:38:10  <Rubidium> says enough I think
08:38:26  <phiker> :D
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08:40:06  <phiker> given that someone does that task, would it be included then?
08:41:10  <SmatZ> I will do something about it
08:41:32  <phiker> great
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08:42:02  <phiker> then IÂŽll try doing something about the normal railway -> maglev thing...
08:43:29  <peter1138> different kettle of fish
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08:43:57  <peter1138> well, all the vehicles have different engine types
08:51:40  <SmatZ> hmmm it needs more work - if an electrified rail can be converted to normal rail
08:51:51  <TrueBrain> GOOD MORNING VIETNAM!
08:51:53  <TrueBrain> wait, wrong date..
08:51:54  <SmatZ> when an el.train is already on the tile
08:52:11  <SmatZ> rather second world war :-P
08:52:13  <phiker> is this that difficult to check?
08:52:49  <SmatZ> phiker: no... but I am not sure if there is any reason to allow conversion el.rail -> normal rail
08:54:08  <Nickman> hi all
08:54:12  <phiker> SmatZ: iÂŽm not aware of one, but that doesnÂŽt mean that there is none...
08:54:52  <TrueBrain> morning Nickman
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08:55:52  <SmatZ> a nice bug in current code - buy an el. train, let it go a little bit out of depot (stay on the same tile), then convert the el.rail to normal rail
08:56:09  <SmatZ> mmmm
08:56:17  <SmatZ> strange now it works :D
08:58:19  <peter1138> :D
08:58:42  <Noldo> anyone :)
09:01:05  <SmatZ> yes ... convert it to normal rail, reverse the train, then convert it back
09:01:12  <SmatZ> to el. rail and it won't start
09:01:21  <SmatZ> you have to reverse it again
09:01:50  <Nickman> whats going on today? :)
09:01:56  <SmatZ> so - the status of the train (hp) is updated only when reversing, not while converting rails under the train
09:02:44  <SmatZ> Nickman: we (I) are (am) now taling about rail -> el. rail ->rail conversion
09:03:10  <Nickman> I saw ;), seems like a bug to me :p
09:03:32  <SmatZ> yes... I will do something about that
09:05:52  <SmatZ> *will try  ...
09:06:13  <Nickman> :D
09:08:03  <phiker> does a depot count as MP_RAILWAY, MP_STATION, MP_ROAD or MP_TUNNELBRIDGE?
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09:10:21  <phiker> guess I have to figure that out myself then...
09:10:36  <SmatZ> I would suppose MP_RAILWAY
09:10:55  <SmatZ> but do not trust me, better verify :)
09:11:43  <phiker> SmatZ: youÂŽre right
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09:13:09  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11032 /trunk/src/clear_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: unmagicify some table sizes and removal of some unnecessary variables. Patch by frosch.
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09:21:50  <phiker> ah btw rubidium
09:22:04  <phiker> the monorail train wonÂŽt run on a  maglev railway because of missing power :D
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09:50:13  <SmatZ> what is the meaning of Train_Multiheaded ?
09:50:21  <SmatZ> and Train_Articulated_Part ?
09:50:25  <SmatZ> I mean
09:50:51  <phiker> SmatZ: perhaps whether the train has multiple engines?
09:51:34  <SmatZ> for TGV, one part is Train_Engine | Train_Front | Train_Multiheaded
09:51:39  <SmatZ> second has only Train_Multiheaded
09:52:03  <SmatZ> eg. what is the difference between Train_Multiheaded and Train_Articulated_Part ?
09:52:21  <SmatZ> I though the second part will have Train_Articulated_Part, but it doesn't :-(
09:54:01  <TrueBrain> articulated parts are part of the first engine and can not be disconnected
09:54:09  <TrueBrain> multiheaded can have N things between the first and last
09:54:34  <SmatZ> TrueBrain: thank you
09:54:35  <TrueBrain> a coal wagon behind a steam engine is articulated
09:54:40  <TrueBrain> a TGV is multiheaded
09:54:48  <TrueBrain> a dictonary lookup would have helped you out too ;)
09:56:16  <SmatZ> I though TGV and similiar trains are Articulated in TTD, so I was confused
09:57:38  <SmatZ> for safe check, whether a vehicle has some power, is
09:57:53  <SmatZ> IsTrainEngine(v) || IsMultiheaded(v)
09:57:55  <SmatZ> enough?
09:58:09  <SmatZ> or should I use
09:58:11  <SmatZ> GetVehicleProperty(u, 0x0B, rvi_u->power)
09:58:11  <SmatZ> ?
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10:07:54  <Eddi|zuHause2> SmatZ: there are powered wagons (e.g. DBSetXL)
10:08:30  <Eddi|zuHause2> depending on consist, some passenger or mail wagons have power
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10:13:19  <peter1138> check TrainPowerChanged() basically
10:13:39  <peter1138> but remember it is allowed for electric power to be on non-electric rail if it has non-electric power as well
10:16:57  <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause2:  peter1138 I will do my best
10:18:18  <peter1138> what are you solving, anyway
10:20:19  <SmatZ> to make better ability of converting rail <-> el.rail
10:20:36  <SmatZ> now, only depots can be converted
10:20:44  <SmatZ> but even when there is a train outside the depot
10:21:09  <SmatZ> I think it would be nice to convert rail <-> el. rail even when there is a train on it
10:21:14  <SmatZ> don't you think so?
10:21:28  <TrueBrain> sjoep sjoep sjoep sjoep
10:21:30  <TrueBrain> sing with me!
10:21:36  <SmatZ> if not, I won't do that patch, and I will only make small changes
10:21:40  <SmatZ> sjoep sjoep sjoep sjoep
10:21:55  <SmatZ> peter1138:  ^^^
10:24:44  <SmatZ> do you want to be possible to convert rail -> monorail on a crossing, when there is a road vehicle on it?
10:28:29  <Alltaken> hi guys
10:28:43  <Alltaken> hows the game going everyone.
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12:44:36  <svip> :O
12:45:10  <nairan> *.*
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12:46:00  <svip> Pretty eyes.
12:48:43  <Eddi|zuHause2> i kinda associate other things with *.* :p
12:48:51  <svip> :P
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12:50:58  <nairan> heh
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13:09:38  <karsten> hello
13:09:51  <karsten> I have a question about openttd
13:09:56  <svip> Hello, Dutchie.
13:10:15  <karsten> does anyone know if it is possible to autofill the train orders table?
13:11:06  <svip> Checked the wiki?
13:11:39  <karsten> i can't find anything about it
13:11:54  <svip> Hm.
13:12:05  <svip> I don't think it is possible in the trunk yet.
13:12:36  <karsten> i can only find on the global internet that is is possible to autofill the time's in an timetable with a patch
13:12:51  <svip> Yeah.
13:12:55  <svip> You need a patch.
13:12:59  <svip> I've read about it.
13:13:40  <karsten> but where can i find that patch? i even don't know the name from that patch
13:14:32  <svip> Two seconds...
13:14:58  <svip> Here we go.
13:14:58  <svip>
13:16:01  <karsten> ok thanks fot that
13:16:05  <karsten> I shall try it
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14:36:16  <Wolf01> uh, i just noticed the fundraiser campaign for, remember me to donate 20€ when i'll get my new card
14:36:30  <svip> :O
14:36:42  <svip> So what is the money for?
14:36:46  <svip> Buy out Chris Sawyer?
14:36:49  <svip> Buying*
14:36:59  <TrueBrain> follow the blue link! :)
14:37:04  <TrueBrain> Wolf01: tnx a lot, and we will ;)
14:37:05  <svip> Blue?
14:37:42  <TrueBrain> links are blue here
14:37:47  <TrueBrain> even if they are in the topic
14:37:48  <Wolf01> the problem is *when* i'll get the new card... i asked for it 2 days ago :P
14:37:49  <svip> :|
14:37:53  <svip> Not really.
14:37:58  <TrueBrain> Wolf01: that sucks
14:38:32  <Wolf01> the links are in yellow for me :D
14:38:38  <svip> :|
14:38:43  <svip> The links are not coloured for me.
14:38:51  <svip> Because I have disabled colours.
14:38:54  <svip> On IRC.
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14:46:38  <thingwath> is revision 11011 just a performance thing?
14:46:54  <TrueBrain> @openttd commit 11011
14:46:55  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Commit by rubidium :: r11011 /trunk/src (10 files) (2007-08-30 21:11:12 UTC)
14:46:56  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: -Fix [FS#1129]: GetFirstVehicleInChain did change the game state while being marked const.
14:46:57  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: -Codechange: do not brute force determine the first vehicle in the chain or previous vehicle, but do it by properly accounting the previous and first pointers when updating the next pointer. This gives a performance increase of about 15% when there are a lot of vehicles in the game.
14:47:14  <TrueBrain> I think the commit logs really says it all :)
14:47:42  <thingwath> well...
14:47:50  <thingwath> it breaks my tender locomotives
14:48:03  <svip> Hmmm?
14:48:21  <TrueBrain> indeed: hmmm? :)
14:50:19  <thingwath> - ugly :)
14:50:26  <svip> .gif?
14:50:29  <svip> No wonder it is ugly.
14:50:36  <thingwath> :)
14:50:42  <svip> And there is no month called "Led".
14:50:46  <svip> What are you trying to put on us?
14:50:54  <thingwath> in czech, it is :P
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14:51:13  <nairan> what grf ya use?
14:51:24  <thingwath> csdset (
14:51:52  <SmatZ> thingwath: how do you mean, "breaks"?
14:51:58  <thingwath> look at the screen
14:52:57  <thingwath> there should be tender, not a second engine :)
14:53:41  <thingwath> (reverting the patch makes it work again...)
14:55:09  <SmatZ> openttd: /mnt/svn/openttd/trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp:165: void TrainConsistChanged(Vehicle*): Assertion `u->First() == v' failed.
14:55:31  <SmatZ> when I try to buy Albatros...
14:56:25  <Noldo> backtrace might help
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14:59:03  <Chris82> hi guys :)
14:59:19  <Chris82> haven't been here for a while and now I am overloaded with syncing work with ChrisIN :D
14:59:33  <Chris82> ShowTrainViewWindow() has been removed in r10997 is there a replacement for it?
15:00:04  <svip> @openttd commit 10997
15:00:09  <DorpsGek> svip: Commit by rubidium :: r10997 /trunk/src (13 files) (2007-08-29 20:50:58 UTC)
15:00:10  <DorpsGek> svip: -Codechange: unify the vehicle view window. Patch by PhilSophus.
15:00:37  <svip> They have been "unified", Chris82.
15:00:54  <Chris82> yeah so I guess there is one single function now, but I don't know the name of it
15:01:06  <svip> Tried grepping for it?
15:01:07  <Chris82> the Vehicle Console Commands used it so I just try to update it
15:01:17  <Chris82> I am on Vista ;) no grepping here
15:01:21  <svip> :|
15:01:29  <Noldo> will help
15:01:31  <nairan> well chris i hope the mail subsidy will get into trunk so subsidies are complete again =)
15:01:44  <Noldo> check the changeset of that r10997
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15:01:58  <Chris82> the mail subsidies will also be updated in the next ChrisIN because they have a "bug"
15:02:14  <Chris82> it's possibly that such a small town that doesn't even produce mail offers a mail subsidy :D
15:02:33  <Chris82> *possible
15:02:39  <Chris82> I'll have a look at it Noldo
15:02:46  <mcbane> which one the one of soovious or of wlander
15:03:11  <mcbane> pitty i have no clue of programming..
15:03:45  <Chris82> well I use the code of wlander to update the current code but I might change additional things
15:04:10  <Chris82> first I need to update the current patches because the unification of vehicles has broken quite a few things
15:04:34  <Chris82> but it also allows me to simplify the way vehicle running costs are calculated for the different daylengths
15:04:52  <thingwath> here is that backtrace
15:07:16  <Chris82> a switch with only a default case is not really useful right?
15:08:03  <blathijs> will probably get optimized out :-)
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15:11:04  <Chris82> < is this correct?
15:12:35  <Noldo> looks fine
15:12:35  <blathijs> Chris82: Is that old code really correct? Is ShowTrainViewWindow(v); really called always?
15:13:34  <Chris82> that old code is from Vehicle Console Commands and I didn't hear of any bugs so I guess it's correct
15:13:44  <Chris82> I just don't know what this default case is for
15:13:49  <TrueBrain> @p[
15:13:50  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Error: Missing "]".  You may want to quote your arguments with double quotes in order to prevent extra brackets from being evaluated as nested commands.
15:13:51  <TrueBrain> @op
15:13:54  *** mode/#openttd [+o TrueBrain] by DorpsGek
15:14:29  *** TrueBrain changed the topic of #openttd to: 0.5.2 | Fundraiser 2007/2008 Closed (310.12 pounds in less than 24 hours!). Thank you all very much for your support!!
15:14:42  <svip> But you removed the link?
15:14:45  <Chris82> oh hi Truebrain, I read on the homepage that you need money for hosting... do you take free webspace or bandwith as well as a donation? :D
15:14:46  <blathijs> Chris82: The default NOT_REACHED() is not supposed to occur, but a switch must have a default case IIRC
15:14:55  <Chris82> ah ok
15:15:11  <blathijs> Chris82: Depends on the form in which you can offer it
15:15:22  <TrueBrain> Chris82: what blathijs says ;)
15:15:35  <Chris82> well I have a root server with 3 500 GB drives and that space is not even closely used
15:15:45  <Chris82> but it only has 500 GB traffic a month of which I use ~50%
15:16:06  <Chris82> and it runs with Server 2003 not Linux ;)
15:16:43  <TrueBrain> bah, microsoft :p
15:16:45  <TrueBrain> hehe :)
15:17:15  <Noldo> thingwath: was there a bug report about that thing already?
15:17:23  <TrueBrain> But we might want to use some of your webspace + bandwidth for our nightly archive, as it is pretty big :p But with the current amount of donation, we might even have a way to sort that out more easier
15:18:27  <thingwath> Noldo: I can't find any
15:18:50  <Chris82> kk, just let me know when you need some space, just checked and there's 1,1 TB free :D
15:19:04  <mcbane> nice.
15:19:17  <SmatZ> I spend like 40s on "[SRC] Linking openttd"  :-x
15:21:39  <Chris82> hmmm on this line "v = v->next;" I get multiple errors I didn't have before
15:21:57  <Chris82> 2>..\src\console_cmds.cpp(1956) : error C2248: 'Vehicle::next' : cannot access private member declared in class 'Vehicle'
15:21:57  <Chris82> 2>        d:\openttd\openttd-dev\src\vehicle.h(232) : see declaration of 'Vehicle::next'
15:21:57  <Chris82> 2>        d:\openttd\openttd-dev\src\vehicle.h(227) : see declaration of 'Vehicle'
15:22:19  <Chris82> did something change that affects this line?
15:22:30  <Noldo> thingwath: is there a way to reproduce it easily?
15:22:48  <thingwath> Noldo: sure, just buy some tender loco... at least in csdset
15:23:24  <SmatZ> Chris82: use v->Next()
15:23:42  <SmatZ> Noldo: yes
15:23:43  <Chris82> thx
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15:29:19  <Chris82> hmm I have included vehicle.h in console_cmds.cpp and vehicle.h has a line "virtual bool IsInDepot() const...." but it still says IsInDepot is an undeclared identifier? why?
15:29:31  <Chris82> ahhhh () -.- lol
15:30:00  <Chris82> hmmm shouldn't this work IsInDepot(v) ?
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15:31:27  <SmatZ> 				u = new (u) Train();
15:31:35  <SmatZ> this may be the problem
15:31:40  <Noldo> how?
15:31:49  <SmatZ> if operator_new updates u->first
15:32:50  <Noldo> sure it does, it's the point where the train is contructed
15:33:01  <Smoovious> <Chris82> the mail subsidies will also be updated in the next ChrisIN because they have a "bug" <--- I haven't done anything with that patch, waiting for newindustries to be done, since I suspect it'll change things... just upping the population check should be ok in the meantime
15:33:05  <Noldo> there is a vehicle before that but it isn't a train
15:33:55  <Chris82> ok Smoovious :)
15:35:02  <SmatZ> thingwath:
15:35:23  <SmatZ> does this solve your problem?
15:36:39  <Smoovious> hopefully I'll have time to do a full rewrite of the subsidies patch soon... fortunately, the other guy that made the subsidies-distance patch gave me one less thing to do :)
15:37:09  <Smoovious> tho I was  thinking of making it grow as the years went by and faster vehicles came out
15:37:38  <svip> Hm.
15:37:53  <svip> How do I find out which Cargo I am using based on its CargoID?
15:39:02  <Smoovious> depending on where you're looking, the types should be enum'd... look around for an enum with CT_MAIL in the list to find it
15:39:41  <Smoovious> dunno if it is going to stay that way tho with newindustries
15:39:54  <svip> :o
15:39:57  <svip> Yeah.
15:40:10  <svip> My patch probably will need some rewrite when newindustries is imported.
15:40:27  <svip> But are there functions to get it?
15:40:34  <Smoovious> yeah... :)  that's why I haven't touched the other patch in a while
15:40:40  <svip> In fact.
15:41:02  <svip> I just need to compare the cargo type accepted by industries, compared to what I am searching for.
15:41:12  <Smoovious> hmm
15:41:33  <Smoovious> sorry, won't be much help... that's beyond what I've dealt with so far
15:47:02  <glx>  <Chris82> hmmm shouldn't this work IsInDepot(v) ? <-- v->IsInDepot()
15:47:10  <thingwath> SmatZ: yes, i think
15:50:11  <Chris82> glx: Yep, I used that too now and it compiled fine, I assume it will work in the game also but I need to fix a few other things before I get an .exe
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16:02:09  <Noldo> is there a SetFirst(...) function for trains?
16:06:04  <SmatZ> Noldo: no, use the SetNext()
16:06:05  <Noldo> and the documentation of Vehicle::HasFront is not correct
16:06:25  <Noldo> the how is it set?
16:07:29  <SmatZ> operator_new sets v->first = v , v->SetNext(u) sets u->first = v->first
16:07:52  <Noldo> ok
16:10:21  <SmatZ> hmm FlySpray seems to have some problem
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16:10:36  <SmatZ> this link doesn't work...
16:10:45  <SmatZ> Notice: Undefined index: is_admin in /www/ on line 23
16:11:29  <glx> no error for me but it is empty
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16:18:26  <Noldo> are you admin?
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16:18:45  <glx> no but I have all other attributes
16:22:15  <TrueBrain> SmatZ: that url isn't suppose to work anyway
16:22:47  <TrueBrain> but it is one of those things from FS, that isn't 100% how it should be
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16:32:38  <Noldo> I wonder if articulated road vehicles are broken too
16:38:58  <Eddi|zuHause2> "fixing one bug introduces two new ones"
16:39:14  <Eddi|zuHause2> now extrapolate that on a bug-fixing spree :p
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16:42:52  <DaleStan> That's standard operating procedure: There is always one more bug.
16:43:22  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm, that is less exponential :p
16:45:44  <Noldo> exponential what way?
16:46:44  <Noldo> it's only exponential if the rate of bug fixing is at least lineary related to the amount of bugs
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16:47:54  <Noldo> but if the rate of bug fixing is constant the growth of number of open bugs is only linear
16:50:42  <mcbane> well today they were down to 130 but then came the bug/patch submit spree and it went up quite fast again.
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16:53:36  <Eddi|zuHause2> Noldo: and the possibility of being exponential is not exponential enough for you?
16:54:29  <Noldo> no
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17:11:27  <ChrisH> hi. is it possible to change  attributes of a vehicle in a newgr-set?
17:12:13  <ChrisH> i installed the generic tram set, but the trams are very unreliable
17:12:17  <ChrisH> too much for my taste
17:15:05  <Eddi|zuHause2> get grfcodec and read the specs?
17:15:19  <Eddi|zuHause2> or switch off breakdowns
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17:38:04  <ChrisH> ahh. grfcodec was the prog... i just didn't remember its name. thx
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18:26:14  <Noldo> is there openttd related git tutorial somewhere?
18:30:30  <svip> :O
18:30:35  <svip> If you know svn or hg.
18:30:40  <svip> You should be quite suited with git as well.
18:30:46  <mcbane> hmm i constanly get all cargo from wood and my rating is constantly shrinking..
18:31:03  <svip> Well, mcbane.
18:31:07  <svip> Then go kick their arses.
18:31:38  <mcbane> normally it should stay even or maye grow..
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18:33:30  <mcbane> hmm
18:41:57  <mcbane> also still the feat./bug happening that like all mines of coal has one value and are not random. also there is no raising production if ya get a high rate.
18:45:47  <mcbane> ?
18:46:02  <mcbane> worth bugreport?
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19:06:19  <peter1138> svip: hmm, git/hg are not really like svn at all
19:06:28  <peter1138> well except they're all version control
19:06:41  <svip> True, but I am using hg, and it is quite similar in commands to svn.
19:07:03  * peter1138 is trying to get to grips with hg with ottd
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19:55:17  <skidd13> what's the current topic about?
19:56:21  <svip> The fundraisering.
19:56:24  <svip> Check the site.
19:56:26  <svip> Front page.
19:56:31  <Prof_Frink> The malware they put in the nightly downloads paid off.
19:57:50  <skidd13> svip: Ah thanks
20:09:50  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11033 /trunk/src/articulated_vehicles.cpp: -Fix [FS#1184] (r11011): building articulated vehicles failed. Based on a patch by SmatZ.
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20:40:14  <mcbane> hmm
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22:08:13  <Wolf01> 'night
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23:27:35  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: truelight * r11034 /extra/website/includes/ [Website] -Fix: use gzip on pages where ever possible
23:28:31  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: truelight * r11035 /extra/website/ (fundraiser.php images/dot.png includes/ [Website] -Add: added a fundraiser page (no longer in use, for possible future use and reference only)
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23:32:29  <stamgast> hi
23:32:33  <stamgast> ore Hoi
23:33:28  <stamgast> nobody here?
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23:33:53  <svip> :|
23:34:03  <svip> My goodness some people have no patience!
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23:36:26  <stamgast> lol ging iets verkeerd
23:36:47  <Rubidium> what did you say?
23:36:55  <svip> Something in Dutch.
23:37:06  <stamgast> pardon me i said somthing went wrong it loged me out lol
23:37:36  <stamgast> i did not wanted to sound rude
23:38:04  <stamgast> is there a posibility that i can ask some questions without bugging you all ?
23:38:05  <svip> stamgast:  ma ei rÀÀgi eesti keelt.
23:38:15  <stamgast> lol
23:38:33  <Rubidium> you already did...
23:38:41  <stamgast> lol
23:39:00  <Rubidium> asking the real "thing" usually better than asking whether you can ask something
23:39:09  <svip> Don't ask to ask, ask.
23:39:19  <svip> Do or do not, there is no try.
23:39:23  <stamgast> yeah i now but i dont want to bug you guys with questions you probely have all the time
23:39:26  <svip> Stop trying to hit me and hit me.
23:39:36  <stamgast> ok here it comes :)
23:39:36  * Wezz6400 hits svip with a broomstick
23:39:49  <svip> You have a broomstick?
23:39:59  <svip> I knew it.
23:40:00  <svip> You didn't.
23:40:08  <Wezz6400> I wouldn't slap you with it if I didn't now wouldn't I?
23:40:21  <svip> You didn't slap me with it.
23:40:22  <Rubidium> @kick svip you wanted to get hit
23:40:22  *** svip was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [you wanted to get hit]
23:40:27  <stamgast> my question is " i got some GRF i want to change some collors in. how can i do this and is there a tool for it ?
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23:40:29  <svip> Shesh.
23:40:33  <Rubidium> ;)
23:40:34  * Wezz6400 aait Rubidium
23:40:35  <svip> There is a lot of kicking in this channel.
23:40:41  <Wezz6400> err
23:40:48  <Wezz6400> how would I translate that with the same meaning :X
23:40:57  <svip> You don't?
23:41:02  <Rubidium> kicking is subset of hitting ;)
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23:41:44  <Wezz6400> what point is there in having ops if their not bofh's
23:42:01  <svip> That's a stupid question.
23:42:02  <stamgast> put your energy in awnsering my questions beating eatch other is usles violence :) buy GTA instead :P
23:42:20  <svip> I already own all copies of GTA.
23:42:22  <Wezz6400> svip it was rhetoric
23:42:25  <stamgast> haha me to :)
23:42:26  <Rubidium> decode with grfcodec, change with <whatever program understands paletted pcxs> and encode again with grfcodec. For more information take a look at (especially the tutorial part)
23:42:34  <svip> *all* copies, stamgast?
23:42:45  <stamgast> thank you
23:42:47  <Wezz6400> I own a copy of most, but not all
23:43:04  <stamgast> yes i got Gta 1 till the last one and waiting for the new one to come out
23:43:08  <Wezz6400> I don't have the expansion packs for gta1
23:43:17  <svip> Aw. :[
23:43:21  <svip> They were good.
23:43:38  <Wezz6400> I played the london one a bit, but never really got into it
23:43:44  <Wezz6400> driving on the left got the better of me
23:43:51  <svip> Haha.
23:43:55  <stamgast> i love vice city becouse of the 80's music thats my favorit
23:43:57  <svip> Those crazy Brits.
23:44:09  <svip> Ironic isn't it, stamgast, cause that is my least favourite.
23:44:18  <Wezz6400> I love that one too
23:44:22  <stamgast> haha prob becouase i am old i like it :)
23:44:29  <svip> Yeah everyone does apparently.
23:44:33  <svip> I love GTA2 the most.
23:44:54  <Wezz6400> I love 80's stuff as it is, it's just a tad bit better than gta3 (but not by much) and well, san andreas was a big disappointment really
23:45:20  <stamgast> i think san andereas was also good exept the part that you need FOOd aal the time
23:45:32  <Wezz6400> I don't really like it
23:45:38  <stamgast> i like crashing planes and love the jetpack
23:45:49  <stamgast> but hated the music
23:46:02  <svip> :|
23:46:03  <Wezz6400> I'm not a rap fan for starters, but other than that the story really isn't as good and there were some boring missions too
23:46:13  <svip> Okay...
23:46:15  <stamgast> yeah i agree
23:46:15  <svip> Enough GTA?
23:46:20  <svip> You can't build train networks in TA.
23:46:20  <Wezz6400> technically it's much better, but gameplaywise I prefer vice city
23:46:21  <svip> GTA*
23:46:24  <svip> So what's its use?
23:46:26  <svip> Huh?
23:46:54  <stamgast> anywayz thanks for awnsering my question i will have a look in to it
23:47:44  <stamgast> May the Trains be with ya all.  " Bild long and prospper "  :P
23:47:51  <svip> Build*
23:47:55  <svip> prosper*
23:47:57  <stamgast> yeah saw it
23:48:24  <stamgast> i am 30 i misstype a lot :P
23:48:50  <svip> And Dutch.
23:48:58  <svip> I am 20.
23:49:03  <svip> So I got you beat.
23:49:08  <stamgast> haha but i only am back in holland sinds one year m8
23:49:18  <Wezz6400> Being Dutch doesn't mean you can't write proper English.
23:49:19  <svip> :|
23:49:25  <svip> True, Wezz6400.
23:49:34  <svip> I know a lot of Dutchies who write perfect English.
23:49:38  <svip> Well, almost perfect.
23:49:44  <svip> When I approach them they start talking Dutch.
23:49:44  <Wezz6400> As most other Dutch people on this channel prove on a daily basis.
23:49:45  <svip> Bastards.
23:49:46  <Wezz6400> :P
23:49:55  <Wezz6400> Oh echt waar?
23:50:02  <stamgast> i lived in ireland for 2 years 2 years germany 1 year england 1 year manhatan, and one year in ontario :)
23:50:15  <Rubidium> where's Sacro when you need him...
23:50:20  <svip> Sorry, Wezz6400:  ma ei rÀÀgi eesti keelt.
23:50:26  <Wezz6400> lol
23:50:33  <stamgast> nederlands :) kan ik ook
23:50:41  <Sacro> Rubidium: that's what the government have been puzzling for years
23:51:02  <svip> O_O Hm, stamgast.
23:51:05  <svip> You've been around.
23:51:12  <svip> I've only lived here in Copenhagen.
23:51:34  <stamgast> it should be a world language
23:51:40  <svip> Danish?
23:51:42  <svip> Yes, I agree.
23:51:57  <stamgast> yeah you get that when your working for APPLE  as a system manager :)
23:52:01  <stamgast> dutch
23:52:21  <Wezz6400> nah
23:52:26  <svip> Isn't Apple spelt with only the a as a capital letter?
23:52:43  <Rubidium> svip: not always
23:52:46  <Wezz6400> We can't even use it properly ourselves, let alone 6 billion foreigners.
23:52:55  <stamgast> depends on the person who write's it
23:53:00  <svip> Wezz6400 is right, we should start speaking Esperanto.
23:53:16  <stamgast> no whe should speak binary code
23:53:22  <Wezz6400> stamgast too many dumbasses using hun instead of zij or hen
23:53:29  <stamgast> yeah i know
23:53:51  <Wezz6400> I'm not even talking about spelling (though some stuff is just annoying)
23:54:31  <stamgast> i know my english writing is always bin bad. but stil i can manage and a spelling program works fine at work
23:55:12  <stamgast> at least i can work on my dutch now i got 1 year holiday
23:55:38  <stamgast> that sentence sounds wrong lol
23:57:11  <stamgast> anywayz nice talking to you guys, i'm off going to check the info out. talk to ya all .
23:57:14  <stamgast> laterzzzz.
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